Enhancing Gameplay: Personal Economy

[distant sinew]

don't know if Drum has mentioned this or not, but this is my take on it: Money. All players should have their own money system.

-Here are some ways players can earn money in the game:

1. Driving Harvesters: Players earn money by efficiently operating harvesters.

2. Finding Mineral Spots: Discovering new mineral spots can reward players with money.

3. Killing Enemies: Share the reward with people who help you damage the enemy within a certain time frame.

4. Blowing Up Buildings: Destroying enemy buildings provides monetary rewards.

5. Quests: Quests can include tasks like killing a specific hunter, with the commander putting in an amount of his money for the task if completed within a certain time frame. They can also target specific players like a bounty or designate scouting spots where the commander needs players to scout.

-Benefits of Earning Money

Players should feel rewarded for their actions with a tangible benefit, like a treat. Here's what money can be used for:

1. Infantry Weapons/Classes: Purchase upgrades and new classes for infantry. The most likely option is single-use purchases, which are cheaper. Alternatively, you can buy upgrades that last for a set number of deaths or opt for more expensive permanent changes. This can also be a choice you make yourself in the game, offering all three options.

2. New Building (Item Shop): In this new building, players can buy grenades, jetpacks, armor, power suits, miniguns, adrenaline potions, grappling hooks, TP beacons, camouflage (vs. radar), turrets, mines, and many more utility items.

3. Team Objectives: Introduce team objectives that require pooled resources. Players can contribute money to unlock powerful team-wide abilities or buildings, encouraging cooperation and strategic planning.

4. Black Market: Introduce a black market where players can purchase rare or unique items at a premium price. This could include exotic weapons or powerful vehicles not available through standard means.

-Vehicle Purchases
Players can also buy tanks, planes, and cars.

Implementation with Commander Builds
Here's an example of how this system could work with commander builds:

<Faster Spawn: Players can use money to spawn vehicles faster than the commander can build the same unit, but at a higher cost.

<Higher Costs: Vehicles built by players should be more expensive, maybe 50-100% more, so that commanders can't simply give money to players to speed up production. While it's faster, the increased cost balances it.

<Personal Vehicles: Vehicles are personal, and other players can't take them unless the commander unlocks them.

By incorporating these elements, players will have a more engaging and rewarding experience, with personal goals and achievements linked to their performance in the game.

[mortal aspen]

Personal resources are planned, I've heard!

[abstract orbit]

you forgot the most important part; being able to donate your money to the commander ! glory for the motherland! 😄

[smoky cedar]

Dram also mentioned that instead of money, infantry could have cool downs on the stuff. He did not provided examples, as far as I remember, so the idea is very raw atm, we could ask.

[smoky cedar]

We don't know how it will end up being, but he did mention that he would not mix Commander's money with player's. You save yourself from lots of issues, such as, lending money to a player and not being able to build whatever, or the opposite, many players donating to the commander and get an unfair advantage, which wouldn't make much sense lore wise either, because humans get "paid" by the collected Balterium.

[mortal aspen]

I would like this better than money tbh, since it's so easy to die, losing your hard-earned money like that and being stuck with a crappy unit would suck

[smoky cedar]

Exactly

[distant sinew]

I don’t see why you lose your money when you die, or how you can end up stuck with a crappy unit. The commander is still in the game, building units for you to use.

[mortal aspen]

I meant infantry that you purchase with personal resources earned by completing objectives. You spend them to buy a unit like Commando for yourself, and if you die, then you just lost your personal resources and get stuck as a cheaper/worse infantry. (Unless you get into a vehicle made by the commander, or you're an alien who can transfer mind I guess)

[smoky cedar]

He is talking about personal resources. Dram said that using money as personal resources may be a mistake and cooldowns may be a better option. I think it is an idea worth exploring because I can see some issues if money is used, for example, imagine you enter a match mid or late game, it may be safe to assume that you would not start with a lot of personal resources.

But there are many things to consider if this approach is used. Lets take the same example and cooldowns are used. Would that mean that you enter the game mid game and you could order a Siege Tank? What if more players do the same, it would be OP for sure. Unless something else works in parallel with this, for example, ranking up to "earn" the choice of selecting stronger units? 🤔

[tight jungle]

Cool down timer would be better than eco, imo. Lets the game feel a bit more intense and doesnt take anyone off the front lines to go drive a Harvester.

[scenic copper]

i prefer the personal eco, if you die after buying commando hopefully you were able to contribute and make some resources off the value of your contribution, also if harvesters are spreading money to the team hopefully you lasted long enough for a few of them to do their thing. if you don't succeed then you can mooch off commander's vehicles, help harvest, or participate as cannon fodder.

[scenic copper]

if you join mid-game you can mooch off commander's vehicles, while the stronger Mid game economy will help you buy things faster, the players who have been playing since the beginning haven't only had the opportunity to make money they have also had the opportunity to spend money, and income should be balanced such that acquiring large surpluses either means playing as a scout for a lot of time, mooching off the com, or as a good player you have survived fora long period of time and thus are rewarded with more options to buy when reaching homes.

[scenic copper]

Harvester should be the most reliable way of boosting your income, but not the only

[smoky cedar]

I would like to use a scout when the need demands for a scout, instead of grinding for a higher tier unit and HAVE to be a scout to save money 🤔 But I think the idea is raw right now and we would need to know more details to imagine real scenarios.

[scenic copper]

rifleman would probably also be free, and just make a basic RPG an available option for the Rifleman so you have enough flexibility to deal with whatever is on the battlefield

Rifleman already free given we currently respawn as rifleman

[smoky cedar]

Dram mentioned that he may divide infantry loadout between armor and weapons + items. And this is just a guess, but if we follow current land vehicle's class as "light", "Heavy" and "Ultra", probably we'll have something similar in terms of armor for infantry... probably "light" armor and "Heavy" armor... and "ultra" armor for commandos or whatever weapon is considered "ultra" ? . So, if you select a light armor, your weapon choices may only be SMG, Rifle, and probably sniper rifle, and if you choose Heavy armor, you would get the current RPG weapon, stinger, minigun, etc 🤔

[scenic copper]

as i said just have a basic RPG that can fit in the light category

[tight jungle]

I got mixed feelings about giving an RPG to a rifleman. I mean it kinda makes sense as a lighter, general purpose weapon for AT within 100-200m and anti-infantry

Idk. I still advocate for a Breacher class. Rifleman should get standard auto rifle and variants related to it. Breacher gets heavier, more specialized weapons. Heavy infantry gets the weapons too big and bulky for standard infantry

[scenic copper]

no guidance, no 4 shots, just 1 shot fly straight, long reload

still see 0 need for breacher class, unless its part of the faction split

[tight jungle]

Reason I advocate for a Breacher class is because in my head, a Rifleman should be working with rifles. So heavier machine guns, light machine guns, assault rifles, DMRs, etc. Perhaps even an autocannon.

A Breacher I would give grenade launchers, shotguns, RPGs, etc. Perhaps even a flamethrower.
Thats my opinion

[scenic copper]

still more of a faction split, and heavier MGs should be limited to heavies

[tight jungle]

I was thinking the Heavies would get miniguns.

[scenic copper]

minigun on the high end, M60 on the low end

[tight jungle]

Something a human would need a powered exoskeleton for. But an M-60? A human can handle that

[distant sinew]

I can see how everyone saving up to buy a siege tank could be a problem. But there's a simple solution: implement cooldown-based stacks, depending on the unit. For example, a hover tank could have a faster cooldown but can stack up to 3 times. So, 3 players could buy it at the same time, but then they'd need to wait while the cooldown builds up again. And so on for other units

[scenic copper]

M-60s require multiple people to carry

and they arent usually in heavy bulky space suits

[tight jungle]

tbf, the space suits in Silica for the lower level infantry look pretty light. Scout looks like it is almost wearing spandex

[scenic copper]

you could wait for the siege tank cooldown also

[tight jungle]

Plus, with advances in materials tech, we can say 1 dude needs to carry the M-60. If we are being perfectly realistic, somebody has to carry the gun and somebody has to carry the ammo.

But in Silica we have handwaved in infinite ammo, so yes 1 human can carry the gun

[scenic copper]

the heavy has a powered exoskeleton

also im not comfortable having SMG, LMG and HMG on the same class

LMG is already a very heavy weapon

HMG is almost defined by the fact that it requires multiple people to carry it

[scenic copper]

looks pretty baggy and loose to me

rifleman covered in Armor Plating

heavy:

[distant sinew]

Yes, but it will only have 1 stack max. I'm not sure what you mean?

[scenic copper]

i mean would you even need to wait for the siege tank CD though? if you used hovertanks would that count against siege tank? so Sol gets a mass of Free Plasma Tanks at 40 mins?

or you mean because some other guy got the siege tank, im SoL?

which would get toxic fast as players will sit around the UHVF waiting for the timer so they can be first

[distant sinew]

In games where there are stacking amounts, every unit has its own stacks and a cooldown to stack them up. I think the cooldown should be based on the building in question or the overall army (all buildings).

[scenic copper]

stacking amounts of what? money makes sense to me Cds dont

beyond just general time gating

[distant sinew]

Dont you understand? did say it just up. The cooldown (CD) is in place so not everyone can buy a siege tank or any other unit type all at once to create a massive army. It has a cooldown-based stacking system.

[scenic copper]

so you just have players hanging out at the Factory waiting for the Tank cooldowns to reset?

thats what i think would happen, its generally pretty toxic, players encouraged to TK to get the vehicle they want

i want to avoid that

any time your not out in the field doing something constructive is a moment that will be wasted. and unfun

[distant sinew]

You're forgetting what game we're playing, aren't you? We have a commander, and there's already an army in the game. Plus, people don’t have so much money that they can buy units all the time. So no, it won’t be a problem. You’re speaking as if this is a game where income is entirely in the hands of the players, but that’s not the case here. Your thinking is flawed.

[scenic copper]

before Human coms got good this happened all the time with human players

they sat at a factory waiting and occasionally TKed each other to get the tank they wanted

[distant sinew]

And they will get kicked or banned. Hope they really like the tank they used.

[scenic copper]

and CDs were proposed as an alternative to money mechanics

[distant sinew]

What I’m proposing is to add more to the game, not take anything away or change how the commander or anything else works. It’s just to give purpose to driving the harvester and doing things that help the team, providing a bonus for it.

[scenic copper]

thats still the incentives, you can punish the TKers easily enough but the ones AFKing while waiting are harder to deal with plus you are actively punished for not doing that because you could lose out on a vehicle you want

[scenic copper]

rewarding players for doing things and driving the harvester is what money mechanic is all about, thats what i support

[distant sinew]

AFK people are annoying, but that doesn't have anything to do with this.

[scenic copper]

im talking about incentive structures, if there can only be 3 player purchased Railtanks on a team, and you want a rail tank, then you are encouraged to wait for the CD on the Railtank over driving the Harvester or Fighting as a Lesser unit

if we use money mechanics, maybe you don't buy anything really great, which i admit is a bit of an issue. but as long as you are doing something constructive that will make you more money and progress you to a rail tank

[distant sinew]

Yes, but people who are AFK don’t get paid, so if someone has the money to buy a rail tank, then they were very active up to that point. And people who are usually active stay active. So, it still doesn’t change anything.

[scenic copper]

not getting paid is a money mechanic.

Having to wait through a a time gate is a Cooldown mechanic

[distant sinew]

Yes. What's your point?

[scenic copper]

so you do support a money mechanic

[distant sinew]

You’re speaking in circles. The cooldown (CD) is only there so 10 people can’t buy big units like siege tanks at the same time. It won’t change anything about people being AFK or team killing (TK). Money is a reward for active players, not for those who are AFK, so this will actually encourage people to be less AFK. Don’t you see that this will ultimately fix what you’re concerned about, not make it worse?

[scenic copper]

problem is that if you make money only based on your actions it becomes harder for players who join midway to aquire enough resources to afford anything useful, driving the harvester is boring to some and without the money for a good unit they cant make money through combat. its what dram is concerned with when it comes to a Money Mechanic.

and tbh Combat should be more Lucrative but risky, harvester isn't but its reliable

[distant sinew]

And now we're back to this. The commander still BUILDS units, so if you're not good at something, you still have the same amount to do as you do in the game now. Like I said, circles.

https://tenor.com/view/rowing-boat-simpsons-bart-circles-gif-14138184

[scenic copper]

its late i need to go to bed apparently 😭