Garrisoning human buildings and harvester

[small sigil]

ive modified these pictures to help demonstrate potential garrison points.

Add firing ports to the research facility's walls, this allows garrisoned troops to shoot out, adding small guard towers to the places where the AA turrets are would also help, they can be used in lieu of turrets, or the turrets can be added to the roof of the guard tower.

harvester catwalk could use to be extended in the rear to allow more space for extra garrison soldiers to cover the rear of the vehicle

the airfield provides a high vantage for troops making it an excellent place for garrisoning, it would also be nice to have a staging area for dropship troops to wait, they can then board the next available dropship. finish the ladder in the rear of the building and allow it to connect to the raised platform for troops at an even higher altitude, would also be nice to have the ladders be usable

The refinery could also use to have the ladders fixed this would allow more elevated garrison locations. add a catwalk to the gantry beside the harvester drop-off, this gives additional garrison points. it would also be quite nice to have a drawbridge here that will connect to docked harvesters allowing for easy embarkation/disembarkation for harvester drivers.

[random bloom]

As in fixed positions to assign AI infantry?

[small sigil]

yes

[random bloom]

Yeah I like that

[little flame]

Yeah me too

[boreal gyro]

I actually really like this idea. Would be great to have this for bunkers and outposts as well!

[timid pagoda]

I like the idea of having garrison far more than static unkillable turrets (until the whole building dies). AI units completely ignored static turrets and at worse directly hug them and die. Actual physical and separate infantry (and potentially turrets) that's positioned on buildings and potentially vehicles would lead to much better gameplay that even the AI units can handle.

But performance needs to be addressed before this. Turtling and amassing a large amount of units near base with no intention of sending them to the front eats away the little FPS we get so far.

And this doesn't really even have to be a separate mechanic. Just add more pathfinding routes, catwalks and entry points to structures that AI units can understand too. Main issue is teaching them how to use the elevator or ladders.

[hollow current]

I think that for harvesters, the point of garrisoning it is to defend it but defenders should not go flying off whenever the Harvester rolls up or down a dune. That's the only advantage a fixed position would give me, at the cost of losing mobility, which is very important to get LOS, and help with aim. Besides I would be stuck to the fixed position, I would not fall but I would lose flexibility.

Maybe the main thing to address here is "not to fall off the Harvy" to begin with, right? If that can be somewhat ensured, would we need fixed positions in the harvester?

About holes in the Research Station, agreed. I would make the walls with this shape. I think it is a middle age design that helped archers?

[timid pagoda]

You actually want the opposite to allow for better line of fire and to allow for more troops to fire from the same embrasure. If it extend on the internal side like this and doesn't on the external, there's a good chance your vision will be limited. The embrasure doesn't have to be thin (as opposed to wide), just not so high as to allow bugs to crawl through it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrasure

If there's counter-fire from impalers, dragonflies or another human faction, then have it be high enough to allow crouching behind it. Simply move a little and rise from another position to offset the enemy in case they spotted where you fired from due to muzzle flash.

[small sigil]

This is for RTS infantry so you don't have to

1. Direct control soldier
2. Open harvester ladder
3. Go up the elevator
4. Wait for the doors to open
5. Walk over to the spot you want this soldier to guard
6. Repeat 5 times for every harvester.

Commander should just click on the soldiers he wants and load them into the harvester where they go to these specific preassigned spots. It's not really a useful tool for FPS players as you can more easily run around the harvester defending it, assuming dram fixes the physics.

For buildings patrol routes may be a better choice with garrisonned infantry being excluded from area selection commands.

[small sigil]

Yes performance is more important at this moment, the garrisoned infantry would still cost unit cap, so leaving them at your base ultimately costs you in offensive power.

[hollow current]

So, make the AI infantry to TP to the garrison positions? Similar to what the harvesters do (they teleport to the refinery), when they become stuck?

[small sigil]

They may be able to walk over there, and if dram fixes the ladders there will be more places they can go to defend, the main point is that they have an assigned position with an advantageous viewpoint with which to defend the structure reducing the micro required for the commander.

[hollow current]

That would be really nice.

https://tenor.com/view/oh-well-gif-27584089

[timid pagoda]

This is the main issue here imo. AI infantry is far more limited in movement than human infantry.

It can't

• pathfind to most places around a structure
• pass through doors that need time to open (afaik)
• climb ladders
• ride up elevators
• wait for a harvester to open its hatch and enter through it.

The easy solution to that would be having AI units teleport to their locations, but that would completely ruin immersion and make assaults annoying. Teleporting anything is never the optimal solution, especially when it shoots back.

I can tolerate the few exceptions:

• If you can't rely on harvesters working, you don't have a stable economy (I think they should TP even more when stuck!)
• Until we have better movement options, teleportation works best for player infantry

[hollow current]

I agree, TP is a workaround, a remedy to the problem, not a fix itself.
I don't see why we can't see infantry getting into the harvester conventionally, maybe the AI can be programmed so, in case there are multiple infantry getting inside the harvester, that the ladder stays down for more time, and the elevator to only activate when all units are present, or having doors open for more time. Yea. I think it will get done eventually.

[timid pagoda]

It would be cool, but I don't think it's anything essential. I fear it's far more complicated to implement than it seems. There aren't many games that allow for AI pathfinding on mobile units.

Let alone on actual constructed structures on top of map movement.

[hollow current]

Dram has experience in vehicles and physics due to the game Take on Mars, a previous project of his. So, knowing Dram, he'll find a way. Not a priority though, for sure.

[small sigil]

Isn't there that giant vehicle from Halo you could walk around in? They may have had bots that could navigate it.

[timid pagoda]

Like I said, not many. Halo is one of the games with most advanced AI scripting and behavior in the whole games industry 😄

[novel cloak]

yeah, this would be great for defending structures.

[novel cloak]

https://www.halopedia.org/M510_Mammoth

I think this is what you are thinking of

And yes, NPCs were inside it, although I dont remember how much they actually moved

[novel cloak]

So I do agree with the pathfinding issues for AI infantry. However, I wonder if the potential "assign" command can help fix that.

Dram has mentioned wanting to do a "guard", assign, or defend move order. So if I used it on a vehicle then the units would defend said vehicle.

So if I used that command on a building, then maybe the AI infantry can follow a set of preplanned routes around and through the building and essentially patrol it, only stopping when ordered away or when engaging approaching hostiles.

You would simultaneously have a security patrol for saboteur infantry and a combat patrol to defend you infrastructure from a conventional attack

[oblique iris]

X4 has a variation of this with its spaceships

[small sigil]

Garrisoning human buildings and harvester

[spiral saddle]

I love this!

This and the bomber/gunship and transport rework would make the game a dream

[edgy atlas]

I fully agree with these suggestions, would make fights against the bugs less daunting if buildings were garrisoned and ready to fight back.

[wicked folio]

Getting pathing right for this would be rough probably but I would not mind at all if the units just 'teleport' into their assigned positions. It's fine and wouldn't break immersion in my opinion. Much easier to implement.

I assume this could be implemented as a UI button on each building/harv that you click, it takes some time to 'build', and once complete the units all just pop into existence.

[random bloom]

Also agree, I’d be fine with teleporting and I’m an immersion stickler.

This is just one of those situations.

[magic fossil]

if the troops only have to path directly under the harvester then tp in, it would be fine, since harvesters themselves already tp into refineries when close by

[novel cloak]

Harvester is as big as a building and the resource gatherer for humanity's new miracle energy. Almost feels stupid of them NOT to have a teleport anchor on each harvester to protect it from harm, considering humanity is fighting itself and hostile, organized alien life on a regular basis.

Think not having a teleport anchor for something so important would be immersion breaking, imo