I heard that Dram isn’t sure about uses for the elite fighter aircraft so here’s my idea. One or two can be scattered around the map unclaimed. Either human faction can capture it, but when they try to it alerts enemies as to the location. It takes a lot of time to capture, so you get some impromptu battles. The elite fighters can just be effective hero units. If there’s worries about it being capturable too early, make a tech level requirement, or make capture rate scale with number of units. That way humans don’t get a massive early game advantage and you get some cool battles around the map.
#potential use for elite fighter
rare gorge
hard bobcat
Hard no
Hero units are such a god awful trope in games.
And I believe Dram concurs.
rare gorge
I do not mean extremely strong units. Just a fun little gimmick. Perhaps hero unit is the wrong word lol. Something visually distinctive but not totally game changing.
Just wish there were more objectives then just run at the enemy kill kill kill
Player-driven secondary objectives would be fun, and add some variety to a match
If your really unhappy with the idea of capturable units, it could also be a capturable map structure that allows either human faction to produce the unit, or for the aliens to infest for some kinda benefit (idk what tho)
ornate osprey
Just wish there were more objectives then just run at the enemy kill kill kill
I mean if they changed up bunker objective that would be nice
No point for them at all rn
unkempt robin
They’re the only vehicle that had fixed guns, I always imagined an ultra fast air vehicle for ground attack that’s really paper thin and can’t stop in one place too long
tired ridge
Dram is planning for there to be capturable vehicles and the elite fighter could be available that way, is a neat idea.
But elite fighter too me should be made an interceptor, very fast, rips air units, not good for much else.
rare gorge
But elite fighter too me should be made an interceptor, very fast, rips air unit...
Yeah I agree it should be hyperspecialized
rare gorge
Dram is planning for there to be capturable vehicles and the elite fighter could...
And that’s great : ) I didn’t know lol
worthy prairie
Looks like something that would be a centauri unit
hard bobcat
Opposite
round nest
Bru I just want a human air vehicle that helps me aim at dragon Flys 😭
zealous heron
But elite fighter too me should be made an interceptor, very fast, rips air unit...
I tend to agree. Either that or it should be a great balance/excel at both air superiority and ground support, thus making it a fantastic multi-role aircraft.
The balancing mechanism for such a superb and high tech vehicle would be a hefty price tag, so they must be used wisely and by competent players.
I would favor hard-hitting machine guns as the primary armament with fire and forget swarm missiles for deleting hordes of enemy wasps/dragonflies.
Again, balanced by a hefty price tag. You dont get it unless you have the eco to afford it. I would give it double the price of the fighter.
tired ridge
I tend to agree. Either that or it should be a great balance/excel at both air s...
If we leave it with just the MGs it won't be very good by late game, which wouldn't make a hefy price tag worth it, but if players can occasionally find one maybe they get the opportunity to dogfight wasps and dragonflies before human com gets air out.
It would be tricky to balance though
zealous heron
If we leave it with just the MGs it won't be very good by late game, which would...
Not sure if you are suggesting that an unclaimed vehicle could be found in the wild. Torn thoughts about that, but for something as important as an elite aircraft I would lean towards a no.
zealous heron
If we leave it with just the MGs it won't be very good by late game, which would...
And that is why the swarm missiles would be great. I would give them above average accuracy with fire and forget target locking. They would have the ability to hit a swarm of dragonflies/wasps or the swarm missiles would focus on a single target for larger individual damage
tired ridge
Not sure if you are suggesting that an unclaimed vehicle could be found in the w...
Unclaimed vehicles may be found around the map is something dram is planning.
To encourage exploration.
zealous heron
Unclaimed vehicles may be found around the map is something dram is planning.
Ah, thought he wasnt going to do that.
Well for something like an elite aircraft or other end-of-the-tech tree units they should be particularly rare. Would think vehicles like quads, cars, or even tanks would be more common.
Could also give the elite fighter the pulse attack that the pulse truck uses. Swarm missiles aren't necessary and could be replaced with a pulse attack. Obviously such a pulse attack would have to be modified for air combat and the occasional ground support (everything can kind of be used for ground support).
tired ridge
Ah, thought he wasnt going to do that.
Well for something like an elite aircraf...
As I said it looks like an interceptor to me, which would not be a end game tech thing.
Interceptors generally don't do attacking ground targets.
zealous heron
How would you define an interceptor? I would imagine its purpose as attacking things like bombers or big, heavy, dangerous units that want to rip holes in bases
And it would need a purpose that sets it apart from the fighter, which at this point the fighter seems like a pretty decent interceptor imo
unkempt robin
Interceptors are for intercepting bombers and strike aircraft
zealous heron
Interceptors are for intercepting bombers and strike aircraft
And how does that set them apart from the fighter, except for being even better fighters? I'm not opposed to it, but the fighter is already the basic air unit for doing both those things. Gunship does groundstrike ok but the fighter also does an ok job at it. Both are also good at killing bombers.
Fighter is good at killing gunships and gunships have some trouble killing fighters, not totally impossible though.
unkempt robin
An interceptor would probably be faster with better AA capability than the fighter
Possibly cheaper
Little to no ground attack capability
zealous heron
An interceptor would probably be faster with better AA capability than the fight...
This part sounds like an even better version of the fighter. Not opposed to it
zealous heron
Possibly cheaper
Having trouble seeing why something classified or named "elite" would be cheaper than the normal fighter
unkempt robin
It’s only called elite aircraft in the spawn list
And before it was called “bomber craft”
I wouldn’t get hung up on the name
zealous heron
Little to no ground attack capability
Everything can shoot at the ground, so idk how you can build something that has this capability.
Maybe an example from US operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could provide an example.
Aircraft flying low to the hot desert floor would have an easier time shaking heat seeking missiles because of the high temperatures and the reflective sand.
This is just stuff I have heard on podcasts so this could be entirely wrong, but in a sci-fi future on a hot desert planet maybe this could be made to work
unkempt robin
Everything can shoot at the ground, so idk how you can build something that has ...
Its weapons are weak vs ground
zealous heron
So basically Elite Aircraft missiles would be unable to track/lock targets on the ground
Would have to just use direct aim
and hope
unkempt robin
No just that it does not penetrate armor well, that’s all
Like a WW2 fighter with .50 MGs would not be a good ground attack plane without bombs.
zealous heron
Like a WW2 fighter with .50 MGs would not be a good ground attack plane without ...
I kinda get your point. Idk, I prefer the inability to lock on to ground targets but I suppose armor could be a justifiable reason.
Granted, that would make targeting an enemy like the Colossus difficult. Although the underbelly is weak, I would like the ability to strike it at any point and fly away quickly. Being forced to reposition below it would make my attacks more predicable and counterable.
I would imagine that an interceptor should be able to fly in, drop a payload like a missile or missile swarm, and bug out before being exposed.
unkempt robin
If you want to justify it, AA missiles are generally bad against heavy armor. They aren’t armor piercing to the extent that AT missiles are
zealous heron
If you want to justify it, AA missiles are generally bad against heavy armor. Th...
That's fair.
Alright, give me more accurate missiles with fire-and-forget tracking and proximity sensors that detonate when near the target to ensure no missing I'm good to go
tired ridge
Having trouble seeing why something classified or named "elite" would be cheaper...
It's just a temporary name, all the aircraft started with that name
So that's where interceptor comes from, just rename it to the interceptor.
Classical interceptors role is to stop bombers from reaching their destination. During the cold War interceptors needed to be able to reach Soviet/American Bombers while they were still over the Atlantic, they arent built to be dogfighters, they sacrifice maneuverability for speed, any extraneous system could cost them precious speed costing minutes that could be the difference between a downed bomber and a giant glowing crater where Manhattan Used to be.
zealous heron
So that's where interceptor comes from, just rename it to the interceptor.
Clas...
Yeah, I recall that the F-14 was originally designed to be an interceptor (also a decent dogfighter for its size) of Soviet bombers going after aircraft carriers
Idk, maybe but it feels like the fighter fills the role of interceptor pretty good. Pure interceptor feels odd to me. That's why I keep wanting to give the elite aircraft good air combat abilities or decent ground attack capabilities. For the amount of times that a bomber is racing towards your base you will only ever need 1 or 2 interceptors at most. If the enemy team is smart and has fighter escorts for those bombers then the elite aircraft would be in danger/unable to intercept unless they have decent or better dogfighting abilities
unkempt robin
You don’t need dogfighting ability if you can get in and out before a dogfight ensues
tired ridge
Interceptors don't dogfight the escorts that's not their role, you have other fighters for that, the survival of the interceptor is secondary, that bomber must not reach its destination.
The USAF designed Nuclear Air to Air missiles for its interceptors to make sure those bombers wouldn't survive
zealous heron
Interceptors don't dogfight the escorts that's not their role, you have other fi...
yeah but the prob is that the fighters will try to intercept the interceptor, so you would need fighters escorting the interceptor. Or just more fighters to intercept the enemy bomber and its escorts.
If the elite aircraft is to be an interceptor it either needs to be able to handle itself in a fight, win the fight, and be clear to kill the bomber, or it needs to be so fast that nothing has a good chance of touching it and armed with a weapon that can reload and punch holes in a large enemy target during back to back fly bys
Or have a weapon with such a long range that fighers cant reach it in time if they are next to the bomber
tired ridge
yeah but the prob is that the fighters will try to intercept the interceptor, so...
The interceptors are faster than fighters, your not getting it, they arent fighting the escorts first, if they did the bomber wins, they ignore those escorts entirely even if it costs them their life.
And not many of those escorts had the range to cross the Atlantic.
zealous heron
And not many of those escorts had the range to cross the Atlantic.
Ok, so bring it back to Silica. Flight range isnt really a concern atm and likely wont be, so speed is really the factor that matters more. Then there is the range and the power of the weapon to be used by the interceptor.
I'm imagining that an interceptor in Silica would at best get 1 or 2 runs at a bomber protected by, at best, 2 or 3 fighters
So would the interceptor get missiles as strong as the old fighter but with more range and better accuracy? Or some other weapon?
My assumption is that the interceptor can outrun the fighters but cant out-turn them, so it would have to maintain a certain amount of range or be just tough enough to get in close and run away with a sliver of health remaining
tired ridge
Think of it this way, the Aliens have a collosus on the horizon, you've generously got about 3 mins from the colossus showing up before its game over. Do you want to bother with dragonflies or firebugs?
No that Collossus must go, and nothing else particularly matters at that point.
This is the kind of problem interceptors are designed to solve
zealous heron
This is the kind of problem interceptors are designed to solve
I understand that part. What I'm trying to get at is what kind of weapons, health, speed, maneiverability, etc it will have
Cause whatever you give it take out a Colossus can and will be used at some point against other targets
So if its a super fast aircraft with hefty missiles then yes, it would make a decent interceptor. But what limits me from intercepting your Nest or HQ?
unkempt robin
Bad damage against buildings lol
zealous heron
Bad damage against buildings lol
Can still zoom past harvesters and drop some ordinance.
unkempt robin
Yes but the point still stands that you’d be using it on something that it’s not meant for.
And if its ordnance is ineffective against ground then I don’t see the problem
rare gorge
Just give it bonus damage to other air units.
tired ridge
Interceptor shouldn't be allowed to fire without a lock. Let the fighter stay, but the missiles diverge if they move 150m without locking.
And after 300m they just drop
zealous heron
Returning to this forum after playing my own game where I tested out the combat aircraft that the humans have. Got to get a feel for how the Elite Aircraft feels as compared to the Gunship and the Fighter.
While taking a closer look at the elite fighter there are 4 red lights per horizontal wing. My thought was making red light capable of firing red balterium/plasma rounds. It would give it a very heavy armament in terms of forward-facing gunfire. Then you can give it a potent secondary to back up/complement this vicious primary weapon
I'll also say that combat in the elite aircraft feels a lot more comfortable than in other air units. Big advantage is that the current design/prototype has the guns located on the front/center of the vehicle, so you just point and shoot with it.
With the gunship and the fighter you have to remember your gun is below the craft for ground strike or atop the vehicle for air superiority.
I think it should be more maneuverable than it currently is. I think it would make a great "stand your ground" aircraft. It feels more comfortable maneuvering/strafing side to side. The problem is that lateral movement is slow and the gunship can do that better
So it would need its maneuverability side-to-side and up-vs-down increased. That way it can hold its ground in any area and deter other flying units. Combine that with plasma guns and light ground units and air units will run the other way
tired ridge
Every stat of the interceptor comes with an Asterisk of its not had a balance pass these are all subject to change.
The only immutable property is the size.
zealous heron
Every stat of the interceptor comes with an Asterisk of its not had a balance pa...
yeah, but Im not advocating for an interceptor role. Interceptors are fast that can hit and run a target.
Im thinking of an air unit that goes to a sector of your base and can hold position and fight off lots of light enemies. It should be very maneuverable to avoid wasp swarms and give dragonflies a hard time, but not so maneuverable and tanky that a well-placed tank shot wont obliterate/cripple it
Just a different idea for the same craft
tired ridge
yeah, but Im not advocating for an interceptor role. Interceptors are fast that ...
It doesn't look like it would be able to take enough hits to justify that role.
zealous heron
It doesn't look like it would be able to take enough hits to justify that role.
the idea would be its maneuverable enough to make it a hard target to hit, but not so fast that it can easily dodge a railtank shot. it would be pretty maneuverable, but the pilot would need to conserve momentum to maneuvre. suddenly changing directions would cause you to stall midplace for a second which would be fatal if a tank is aiming at you
I mean, the gunship kind of does this, but its not great for dealing with a bunch of wasps and dragonflies rushing it. So I would suggest the elite aircraft be armed with a bunch of auto-plasma guns. With the Elite Aircraft's maneuverability it can move from side to side, front to back, up vs down, and rotate around itself much easier than the Fighter or the Gunship and can handle approaching air threats with greater ease.
Obviously more expensive than the fighter and the gunship. So if the Gunship costs, what, 2k? And the Fighter costs 3k? So the elite aircraft would have a cost of 3.5-4k.
Cant outrun the fighter, but has the potential to win a close-range engagement with the fighter. But if the fighter pilot has a brain he will stay at range and use his missiles to snipe the elite aircraft.
zealous heron
I think this kind of role suits the Elite Aircraft better than other roles because of its shape. The design of the aircraft is in a cross or t, so it looks like it should be able to move quickly along the 2D plane of Z-Y/Z-X. The 2D body plane that the other aircraft better follows the X-Y plane so they should be better at accelerating towards and away targets.
Essentially, I see the Elite Aircraft as being capable of moving/feeling like the alien flying units like the Wasp, Dragonfly, or the Firebug. You shoot straight forwards and you feel like a floating gun camera.
The Fighter shoots forwards/up and the Gunship shoots forwards/down. The Elite Aircraft would fix this problem by giving a firing area that is straight in front of you like the alien units I just mentioned.