Perseus Pals

[humble anvil]

Zip sales on Uber yet

Ship ship sales are not over yet

Hey didn't the ballistic

The Ballistic TDC TDC

PDC

Have only 5,000 ammo

It has 15000 now?

[azure fulcrum]

Ye

[humble anvil]

@azure fulcrum actually need to look at the stat changes and stuff

The PTU came pretty late for me and I was wrapped up with something else

I think it's cool that ballistics after penetrating or hitting. Will have some kind of cone effect

[lone bloom]

did you notice that a Percy dies pretty fast to another percy? But that may be because they didn't adjust the damages like all other guns so far

[humble anvil]

I haven't noticed really anything man

I've been sleeping and at work

[lone bloom]

7 bullets at the very front harddeaths a percy

[humble anvil]

For what I understand Perseus is an outlier right now because it's not balanced

Oh Jesus Christ

Did they get rid of Hall points

Hall points

H p HP

[lone bloom]

apparantly not in some way

[humble anvil]

But why does seven shots hard kill a Percy is

[lone bloom]

supposed to only hard death when reactor goes critical

[humble anvil]

I'm so confused

[lone bloom]

perseus gets hard death still no matter the reactor status

Foxy tested it in a video

7 bullets on the very tip = boom

It catches fire and causes the cooler to go offline there bespite not even hitting near that area

its hitting like 20 meters away from the cooler and still fully breaks it

[humble anvil]

What What

Lol

[lone bloom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmbbb4IFdgo

20:50

kills all components

bespite not hitting a single one

So... its pretty much just like PU, just with way less health, and time to evacuate

[humble anvil]

i geuss because the Perseus s8 cannon has such a big radius?

[azure fulcrum]

No it has a long penetration distance of 70m but small blast radius

[lone bloom]

No counts for all ships

it doesn't matter on which ship you do it or with what ship

aslong it can pen and destroys your "vital front part"

you dead

it just straight up kills all components, its literally the same scheme as in PU assoon a vital part goes broke it kills your components instead of soft death

and or hard death if you don't fix your ship in time

[humble anvil]

oh isee what they';re doing

they're squishing all damage

[lone bloom]

The only issue i see here is that you go way faster into the "soft death" state

[humble anvil]

and everything is going with it

[lone bloom]

it takes longer for hard death but the soft death state is very fast reached and that worries me

[humble anvil]

everything is getting squeezed down

component health need adjusted massively

[lone bloom]

it doesn't matter what your components have for health

if your vital part hull goes dead

[humble anvil]

because there is no reaction to your component getting penned, then its GG

i mean the vital part now, its going to be so hard to get through with everything being reduced 10x

[lone bloom]

Thats why Percy only needed 7 bullets on a other percy?

[humble anvil]

sec

that doesnt seem right at all

[azure fulcrum]

U dont understand game development

Its alpha

Early days

[humble anvil]

so on the perseus it starts to take component damage?

as soon as shield is down

further exasterbated by a physical reduction modifier unlike other ships right now

im watching

Perseus is immune to s3 ballistics?

oh what the fuck

so they gave perseus 2 vital parts now

[azure fulcrum]

Only the body was vital

[midnight crypt]

CIG needs to rework range for guns. Longest naval shot hit was around 24km to 26km during WW2. Average distance for large caliber guns are 36km-42km and over 1000 years from that we got space ship with a rail gun that can now barely scratch 5km now…. They need to up all the gun ranges, not have essentially a knife fight

[amber crest]

A spaceship with a shorter range in space than a real world sniper rifle is hilarious.

[round zodiac]

yea, apparently even modern Air vs Air usually have you missile lock someone outside visual range with instruments then fly home after you loose it

[tawny fern]

im convinced they just autogenerated armor values based on hp

idk maybe not

the terrapin medic has more hp than the 890j but only 20% of the armor the 890j has

[azure fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-obi-wan-kenobi-elevator-up-down-gif-25924461

[humble anvil]

so we can expect to see

its about 30% the original damage aint it

wow

thats...

THATS SO WEIRD

WHY THE FUCK WOULD THE BALANCE FOR THE NOW WHEN THE NEXT PATCH THEY GOTTA REBALANCE

oh right

marketing. sales.

BUT THATS STUPID

so

i think the perseus will have

so weord that its 900 ammo in live but then the ptu its... 2700

like wtf are they doing

[jade reef]

How's the Percy doing under engineering?

[humble anvil]

its unbalanced right now, something is wrong or being handled incorrectly

i need to see a polaris getting shot from the rear

and see what it does to the ship

[jade reef]

So did it get gutted into utter irrelevance or is it too powerful?

[humble anvil]

because right now when the nose is 0 it softdeath blows up the ship n its components

when the damage is supposed to transfer to the body after 0

[jade reef]

Isn't that an issue on a few ships?

[humble anvil]

so i need to see polaris

so it dpeends on when the ship was released because new ship have like 1 vital part and damage soaks through if hitting the nose, will go to 0 and then all damage to body

like hammerhead has 2 vital parts, nose and body. kill any part n the ship explodes.

[azure fulcrum]

Idk where to start its bad. Just scroll up

[humble anvil]

Perseus is supposed to have 1 vital part, the body. kiss the nose damage should transfer to body.

but seems it just hard deaths the ship n blows up powerplant

[jade reef]

Surely they are aware of and will patch this?

[azure fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/padme-4-panel-meme-attack-of-the-clones-padme-meme-anakin-padme-gif-6902972594242919448

[jade reef]

Surely there is a post on the issue council (my beloved) about this

[lone bloom]

I mean that issue is not just on the Perseus

Its on all ships

[humble anvil]

the idris cannon is 6750 (Alpha) to 523.

*whistles

what the hell

[jade reef]

I mean if every ship in the game has a point where it just auto pops there's no way they'll let that hit live

[humble anvil]

ares inferno was 292 alpha to 46 alpha

[lone bloom]

most bespoke guns also aren't adjusted yet at all, and many armor values are plain wrong, they have to fix a shit ton of stuff

[jade reef]

I just wanna know how down horrific the Percy main guns are under the new patch

[lone bloom]

oh and the ballistic pdc also got not adjusted

[humble anvil]

S7 Ares Inferno has 1600 meter range

[lone bloom]

and surely neither were the missiles or torps

[humble anvil]

ooooooooo eeeeeeeeeeee

OOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[jade reef]

If they push this to live before Christmas and then going on break for a week I am killing myself

[humble anvil]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

1600 meters on a S7

[round zodiac]

O.o

[azure fulcrum]

Alpha wolf has 3300 range lol

[humble anvil]

IDRIS HAS A RANGE OF 4KM

THERE'S HOPE

[jade reef]

why are they doing this

[round zodiac]

rip and tear approach to balance

making us say RIP and tear up

[humble anvil]

no lads

Perseus will still be a long range equalizer

dont get close

and we win

[lone bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/cymbals-monkey-brain-the-simpsons-homer-empty-head-gif-15689692

Thats why

[humble anvil]

Idris has 4km right now on the ballistic turret

the perseus is going to pop so many ships

but still tbh not going to hit anything from that range

it doesnt fucking matter

CIG: Lets give big ships big ranges

meanwhile the projectile speed is so bad it doesnt matter because it takes literally 7 seconds to get there

and by that time the ship has moved so far away

and ai will cheat

[jade reef]

Sub S3 weapons not being able to damage caps also makes a ton of non combat ships in the bounty pool useless against them

Doesn't the Caterpillar only have S3s?

Also isn't this literally like day 1 of armour and they're pushing a patch? But still sounds like this needs like a month or more on PTU before live

[lone bloom]

(can't damage Perseus too)

[jade reef]

Yeah doesn't Percy have special armour for it's size?

[lone bloom]

not special

just the heaviest available

[jade reef]

It's a Corvette with capital armour then which is pretty crazy

[lone bloom]

they not put it live today eh, will still maybe IF they push it 2 weeks from now

[jade reef]

I'm sure if they just fix the nonsense with the nose instant killing it it'll be fine

[lone bloom]

Polaris is a corvette

Perseus is a Gunboat

or heavy gunship take your pick lol

also it has no capital armor

[jade reef]

And also surely the Medusa just 100 to 0s components if it actually hits them on anything smaller than a Connie

[lone bloom]

it has to heaviest sub capital armor - still weaker than the lightest capital armor

(see armor value difference... which is plain stupid)

[jade reef]

But if it's still immune to S3s and less what difference does it make other than having a lower number?

Also, why isn't armour just a component that has grades like every other component?

[lone bloom]

armor values

[jade reef]

Maybe, idk. Static values that make sense?

[humble anvil]

oh its because of the physical modifiers still on the ship

[lone bloom]

Probably the number determines when the armor won't do shit at all anymore

[jade reef]

Why is a caterpillar more armoured than a paladin?

[lone bloom]

Like how long it takes a S5 to crack the armor

like for percy maybe a few seconds maybe a minute

on a polaris a few minutes

[jade reef]

Actually wait why does the 890 have more armour than the Percy?

[lone bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-brain-monkey-gif-11098413

[humble anvil]

https://youtu.be/S_9tGU9jpig?si=vuCyDNKAFTmzDAvm&t=795

time stamp

[lone bloom]

Someone in leak channel argued because its 2x larger than perseus and a capital

therefor its justified that it has a higher armor value

Even while its absolutely not meant for combat at all

[humble anvil]

lol this solo perseus pilot drunk or some shit

oh arena commander

i still wonder why the perseus has 2700 rounds on the turret

[jade reef]

I mean, if a fighter can stay in the blind spot of your remote turret on the back for almost 5 minutes that's a skill issue

[lone bloom]

so percy is not immune to S3

[lone bloom]

i love the fact that the PDC's just didn't gave a shit at all

[jade reef]

PDCs are a bit wonky

[lone bloom]

not just a bit

they just don't work anymore at all

[jade reef]

Yeah there's no way they're getting this working before the holidays

This patch is for sure going to come in the new year

[humble anvil]

WOW they gave so much ballistic ammo

5000 rounds for ad4b

[lone bloom]

Doubt they won't push it

[jade reef]

Huh?

[lone bloom]

they set their strict plan of pushing one patch per month

I doubt they will stop that now in the last month

[round zodiac]

wave1 on dec1 is good pace

[jade reef]

But the patch is so jank and not ready for live?

[round zodiac]

on pace for a PB

[humble anvil]

THE BREAKNECKS WOW

[jade reef]

What

[humble anvil]

10,500 ROUNDS

[jade reef]

10k ammo?

[tawny fern]

i wouldnt be surprised if they push the patch after maybe one or two balance passes in ptu

[lone bloom]

obviously not

They don't care how broken it is

Levski is still a lag hell

and nobody cared

[round zodiac]

wave 1 PTU -is jank- -suprised pikachu-

[jade reef]

Yeah it's just wave 1

Let's be civil and wait for like wave 2 at least before losing our minds

[lone bloom]

Lagski was lagski at Evo and is still lagski in PU Surprised pikachu

[tawny fern]

just a reminder the meteor actually heals other ships

[round zodiac]

marketting department needs it commited as is

fix it in post

[jade reef]

Also the shield changes are insane lol

[tawny fern]

also, cig will probably push the patch just to see how it affects live in terms of meta and balancing

[lone bloom]

But guys, at the very least, engineering and fire / all those balance passes got time to cook in PTU

Unlike every

single

IAE ship

[humble anvil]

WOW THE METEOR HAS 2800 RANGE!

[round zodiac]

explains the dinosaurs

we need a video of a Meteor killing a Raptor

[lone bloom]

When raptor tech

[round zodiac]

and game loop

[lone bloom]

and most importantly, can we ride them like a horse?

[round zodiac]

would love for a driveable capital city on terra or new area18. with players making aUEC by Raptoring the streets

and a salvage ROC for clearing abandoned vehicles

REC: Remote E Collector

[lone bloom]

and the city cleaner vehicle they have put into referral

[round zodiac]

nothing is sacred

itll be from Wikelo in a couple years

cant think of good E word for salvaging there D:

[humble anvil]

the Tormenter for the Perseus may be the best weapon for Perseus. Perhaps may the range hasnt been adjusted yet

its CRAZY, the FL33 LASER CANNON

HAS 519,000 HIT POINTS!!

ITS MORE TANKY THAN OUR PERSEUS

[round zodiac]

bulit to last

[jade reef]

huh?

[tawny fern]

i wonder how the sabre firebird is gonna do with all of this

no need to worry about guns or getting hit

i havent seen anything about missiles in 4.5

[humble anvil]

im updating for the new PTU

[jade reef]

Imagine if they just forget to rebalance all the bespoke weapons and then forget they forgot and nerf them by like 90% in a hotfix

[tawny fern]

@azure fulcrum all in on guardian stonks

s5 guns chunk

[humble anvil]

yeah

the S5 are great

[tawny fern]

S4’s will be good too

Kruger is saved

[humble anvil]

is this a ship per ship basis here wtf is going on

[tawny fern]

All fighters that rely on s3’s are lol

[humble anvil]

laser cannons having the most dps in the game

what

but they have very respectful speeds now

what

laser cannons actually good again?

legit

they look like they are, by a fat fucking mile

4x Omnisky S4 Cannons on MX LOOKS REALLY GOOD

[tawny fern]

Yea

[humble anvil]

1800 m/s speed, 1800m/s range

[tawny fern]

Im digging the base guardian

[humble anvil]

decent dps over laser repeaters

[tawny fern]

Really respectable damage and good maneuverability

[humble anvil]

lke

wtf happen to attritions

so much for wikelo MX

gives attrition by default

[azure fulcrum]

lucky you, the new patch bundle is paired with gordian

[tawny fern]

[azure fulcrum]

lemme check leonids real quick I thought they were nerfed for 4.5 a lot?

[tawny fern]

they look pretty solid to me

[azure fulcrum]

it says -279

minus

[tawny fern]

yeah

mobile healing ship

idk where to find on erkul or spviewer if a ship has the

auto repair thing

[azure fulcrum]

yikes

range is still the same huh

dps just got nerfed apparently

[azure fulcrum]

notice how all the ballistic ammo got increased drastically

its not just medusa its every ballistic

[tawny fern]

yea

good changes

[azure fulcrum]

yeah thats the only good thing to come out of this

inferno didn't get a real ammo count buff time before empty is practically the same

no chances for wolf like at all

they skipped both wolfs entirely

[tawny fern]

yeah idk why they skipped the bespoke guns entirely

except the leonids i guess

and the idris railgun

[azure fulcrum]

sus

[round zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/what-do-they-mean-random-numbers-gif-10654449

[azure fulcrum]

no dmg changes just ammo count and penetration added

[tawny fern]

idk

i dont get it!

[azure fulcrum]

thats it

[tawny fern]

i'd think these devs were swedish with how dumb this balancing is

[azure fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/brad-pitt-12-monkeys-insane-gif-10137413542840679912

[round zodiac]

O.o

[azure fulcrum]

that's rough xD

guys I think I need to abandon asgard

[round zodiac]

rode that high for 2 months?

[azure fulcrum]

yeah it was shortlived

[tawny fern]

how much was asgard

300?

[azure fulcrum]

350

[round zodiac]

all the Taurus enjoyers being encouraged to get the asgard instad

-checks pledge store-

$350

[tawny fern]

get a galaxy for 30 more

join the club

get a carrack (LOL) loaner

[round zodiac]

galaxy no module is a steal

[tawny fern]

galaxy price gonna go through the roof next year

and it has basebuilding!

dorito shaped!

bigger than perseus!

[round zodiac]

if not friend why dorito shaped

[azure fulcrum]

any suggestions?

[tawny fern]

oh my god lmao

[round zodiac]

na looks good

Arrastra to buy everything else

Wolf to fly to the Arrastra

[azure fulcrum]

I'm upgrading paladin to arrastra

melting the asgard

[tawny fern]

by the time arrastra comes out you'll be able to buy a perseus in game

[azure fulcrum]

perseus I'm kinda stuck with because its a 280$ perseus chain

[tawny fern]

when perseus gets ai blades

o man

[midnight crypt]

Ironclad will be better >o>

[azure fulcrum]

I'm upgrading to ironclad first to price bump to arra

[azure fulcrum]

got this in my hanger

[midnight crypt]

All the mineral you mine from the arrastra, you can put it in the armored ironclad and safely sell it

[azure fulcrum]

I went a little nuts

[tawny fern]

idk abou tthe asgard

if u like it u should keep it

its like a nice compact hauler with good cargo capacityt

[humble anvil]

this patch bundle

is fucking beautiful

[azure fulcrum]

IDK about that lol

[humble anvil]

and the guardian mx paint as well

[azure fulcrum]

kinda what I've been CCU chaining for this IAE tbh

[tawny fern]

o

yea

probably better tbh

[azure fulcrum]

the guardian MX paint is beautiful yes

[tawny fern]

railen only 220 too so good deal

[humble anvil]

yeah i got all those things in buyback waiting for their price bump

[azure fulcrum]

yeah and I have lots of store credit left to buy another ship, kruger stingray or something

[tawny fern]

i think i accidently made a ccu chain to a railen without even realizing it

[azure fulcrum]

me too

[desert gorge]

So im assuming they will "try" to rebalance all the ships for 4.5 ?
So medusa weapons "nerf" incoming soonish
I mean idris Conq 7 has 900 dps 🫠

I still dont understand any of these pen values and how they will work

[azure fulcrum]

medusa and wolf weapons are completely missed and I guess the shiv gattlings?

[desert gorge]

Medusa has what 67.5? Meters cenrimeters what exactly

• did u guys notice u can swap out cap components now

[azure fulcrum]

#1121113616926638131 message

[azure fulcrum]

penetration distance

with a 2m wide blast cone 🤡

[azure fulcrum]

oh no lol

[desert gorge]

So ares has more radius than a fking medusa

Makes sense

[azure fulcrum]

exactly 10 times more

[azure fulcrum]

medusa has the same radius as a s2 ballistic cannon

[desert gorge]

That makes absolutely 0 sense but hey its cig

4.5 will be a whole lot of mess i swear this is gonna be weird to learn a whole bunch of things again

Will pdcs be "buffed" with range again bc 700-800 meters is basicly why have pdcs at all

[azure fulcrum]

look

[minor field]

Medusa got a 0.6 phys dmg multiplier rip

[desert gorge]

Looks most likely they havnt touched it yet due to It being Bespoke potentially

[azure fulcrum]

it only does 60% damage yes

[desert gorge]

Or i assumd at least

[azure fulcrum]

they did change leonids

[minor field]

They still haven't changed the actual damage on it or the shiv stuff tho

Or l22

[tawny fern]

yea

[azure fulcrum]

yep

[minor field]

I really do wonder why

[desert gorge]

Leonids?

[minor field]

Maybe they don't wanna touch it until they're done selling them

[azure fulcrum]

meteor

[desert gorge]

Ah ok thanks

Ill just assume they will get to the changes for it bc dmg hasnt been changed yet either

[azure fulcrum]

also idris laserbeam is untouched

[desert gorge]

Idris component HP seem busted 60k+

Or 56k was it

[azure fulcrum]

56k

[azure fulcrum]

and it has 20% more damage mitigation than perseus

[minor field]

Maris

[desert gorge]

Will take ages to take care

[minor field]

Medusa

What's with the radius difference?

[humble anvil]

there is a bug in last PTU

[azure fulcrum]

because perseus is a paper armored target

[desert gorge]

I mean heres a theory

Since its more or less an AP round

Ap rounds dont make large hole

[azure fulcrum]

oh here we go another cope xD

[humble anvil]

so i shoot the nose in perseus

and the damage went back to body

after nose hit 0

[tawny fern]

possibly

[minor field]

I still haven't been able to get a fire to start in my polaris :c

[azure fulcrum]

it could be like a sabot round

[humble anvil]

however, the Perseus still died very fast

very very very fast

[azure fulcrum]

tthat's how CIG intended it perseus is meant to die quickly

[tawny fern]

if perseus had apfsds, penetration should be at least 1000

[desert gorge]

Makes sense honestly that its like an APFSDS or whatever they are called 😂

[tawny fern]

with rounds that big

[minor field]

Everything dies pretty quickly right now, even caps to a degree. I think components are more vulnerable than they will be in live so they can test engineering stuff

[tawny fern]

also armor piercing rounds are usually high velocity

[desert gorge]

True and perseus is not high velocity rn

800m/s is slow AF

[tawny fern]

yeah so its assumed that a round traveling that slow is high explosive

or just poorly designed

[desert gorge]

Id say poorly designed

[azure fulcrum]

it clearly isnt cause the blast radius is tiny 2 meters

[tawny fern]

we got temu medusa ammo

[azure fulcrum]

basically

[desert gorge]

Mom can we get Medusa ammo at home?
We got medusa ammo at home

Lol

[azure fulcrum]

5 years of waiting for this

[tawny fern]

non explosive, low velocity, non piercing

[minor field]

Seems like medusa trades off dmg radius for higher pen than other ballistic cannons

[azure fulcrum]

wel it does pierce don't get me wrong

[minor field]

If you have a good gunner, Pers will go crazy

[desert gorge]

67.5 is good pen

If its meter

[minor field]

I think it's cm

Based on what I've seen in pipeline

so 0.67 meters

[desert gorge]

Than railgun would have 107cm

That be weird

[minor field]

I mean that's a full meter of armor pen

[humble anvil]

anyone in the ptu right now?

[azure fulcrum]

funny how conqueror has better 3.5 times the blast radius

[minor field]

Perseus = component raper I think

[azure fulcrum]

are you kidding me?????

[azure fulcrum]

yoooo that's messed up

[desert gorge]

1m of pen is not good tho an Abrams has more theoreticly

[reef wind]

I'm kind of surprised there's no ammo focused on making the biggest hole with a more ergonomic package.

[desert gorge]

Just strap tht on a plane i guess

[minor field]

67 meters of pen wouldn't make sense tho, no ship has anything close to that

I think it's cm? I'm sure they'll confirm on thurs with the info dump

[desert gorge]

Thats true to

Straight fly through an idris be insane

[azure fulcrum]

it would make sense for a cap ship

[humble anvil]

wow so unfortunately the component completely dies when the nose is destroyed to 0 on perseus

as soon as the nose died the shields shut off

[azure fulcrum]

an idris is a little bigger than 67m....

[desert gorge]

Thats dump

[humble anvil]

and it looks like its on fire now as the heat is skyrocketing

[desert gorge]

But not if u shoot top down

[minor field]

I think the pen distance only has to do with armor and doesn't account for the rest of the hull tho

[humble anvil]

so this is a bug i think

i need a polaris to test

[desert gorge]

All of this 4.5 seems to be a bug to begin with

[azure fulcrum]

I hope not

[desert gorge]

Worst changes i feel like we have gotten in a long time 😂

[humble anvil]

the hammerhead will explode if any part is killed

[minor field]

They put waay too many changes in at once

[humble anvil]

@minor field are you in the ptu

can i borrow ur Polaris

[minor field]

I can hop in rq and warp it to you

[humble anvil]

PTU right

im in arena commander

[minor field]

Ye

I can come arena commander

[humble anvil]

awesome please, yes lets group up

i want to shoot the nose n see if when if that hits 0 if the components also pop

[humble anvil]

seems like a massive bug if its just perseus

[humble anvil]

what is your handle

[azure fulcrum]

I haven't pledged enough

[humble anvil]

i sent you a friend request

[minor field]

x3nn

[humble anvil]

Okay, i will invite you to a custom lobby

[desert gorge]

Btw sry if i ask
Anyone kf u guys been able to do patrols i desperetly need 6th platoon and no one is selling or they dont work due to patrols being buggy..... anyone knows fixes or just bricked overall

[azure fulcrum]

are u gonna stream? xD

[minor field]

Character got reset so I have to load in rq first

[humble anvil]

https://discord.com/channels/82210263440306176/1445550732358193273

xenn

come to

arena commander

dont need to load

should see friend request in notifications

[azure fulcrum]

breakneck ammo count is nuts

100 rounds on poolaris nose caused reactor to go critical

[desert gorge]

Is it just me or that aint supposed to work like that no?

[azure fulcrum]

reactor is in the butt so yeah

[desert gorge]

I mean overall....
Perseus reactor same issue shoot the nose and it dies

So their new system makes no sense

Once again

[rancid copper]

crazy word use dawg

[azure fulcrum]

yeah but thats only 7 shots

cooler, quantum drive and shield gen down after 45 shots in the neck

and reactor critical?

and its on fire

[desert gorge]

Shits not fine lol

I swear just delay 4.5 for another month or two and get this done correctly

Game will be unplayable i swear 🫠

[azure fulcrum]

perseus turret has access to engineering and power 🤡

[desert gorge]

......

[azure fulcrum]

idris is bullying us

15000 DPS laser in your face

[desert gorge]

I never saw the idris laser like that

Looks bad tho 😂

[reef wind]

needs a similar flame effect like entering atmo tbh

Just looks lackluster without it

[rancid copper]

ehm sorry we need the broken christmas patch tradition

they are still aiming for 15m+ in december

[reef wind]

[rancid copper]

the question is which new ship we getting tho

[azure fulcrum]

4 shots on poolaris powerplant and it suddenly soft died

[reef wind]

They gonna slap us with that "Oops! All fires!" Update

[rancid copper]

if we only get a boring ass apollo variant for the end of the year imma crash out

[desert gorge]

There is a potential for it but a sudden javelin dropp seems not impossibld

Tho i hope not

[unreal sun]

I hope so

[azure fulcrum]

@humble anvil

I use these

[rancid copper]

its impossible

Javelin is coming with modularity

servers are too trash and they prob keep it for sq42 release

[desert gorge]

Idris was said aswell tbat servers are trash and nkt until SQ42

And here we are

So its not impossible

[rancid copper]

and the servers are shit since idris

They also gave the Idris multiple times in game before

[desert gorge]

Can u repair armour?

[azure fulcrum]

1600 rounds of inferno fire and shields are half damaged

powerplant damaged

[desert gorge]

And what ship is tbat o-O

Nvm im stupid

[lone bloom]

Perseus lol

[azure fulcrum]

targeted the component room

[desert gorge]

But repairs possible at station?

[lone bloom]

Only at critical damage so far ik

[desert gorge]

Or with the SRT

If repairs only possible at critical that would suck

[lone bloom]

Since there are fire icons on the higher pips, I assume its a warning that if you put those pips in it exceedes your current cooling capacity?

[lone bloom]

the automatical repair is only at critical so far i have seen

otherwise you have to do it manually

[desert gorge]

Thats toasty

[lone bloom]

Casually becoming the sun

[azure fulcrum]

it just means they're on fire XDD

so who's going on fire extinguisher duty?

big hole

[humble anvil]

after some extensive testing

The Perseus is very tanky

[azure fulcrum]

takes 1500 inferno rounds to take down perseus armor and disable the powerplant but it didn't go on fire
you can't kill it with s4 gatts lol it killed the powerplant but has enough pips to get going and powerplant is not going critical
emptied all the ammo on it 5k of rounds

100 shots with 4x C-788 to take out powerplant

[tawny fern]

so why is it so tanky

[azure fulcrum]

because of the penetration requirements

[tawny fern]

the guns need to have a certain amount of penetration against the perseus?

im just trying to understand how perseus vs perseus only takes like 6 seconds, but an inferno cant take it down

[tawny fern]

oh

[azure fulcrum]

gattlings and lasers are very ineffective because of low pen

[tawny fern]

oh i see

[azure fulcrum]

takes a long time to eat through the armor to get to the point of dmging components

[tawny fern]

so with the inferno, you were simply turning the armor and hull into swiss cheese, but you were unable to penetrate deep enough to hit components

[midnight crypt]

Does the idris railgun still one shot S5 ships and smaller?

[azure fulcrum]

IDK don't own idris lol

[humble anvil]

the idris was fucking memeing on the perseus

laser beam deleted my ass fast

[azure fulcrum]

no 15 penetration is sufficient for perseus

the C-788 penetration was also sufficient for the front top powerplant at least

13.5 pen

[tawny fern]

interesting

[azure fulcrum]

I guess the gattlings still shred armor

[tawny fern]

well thanks for testing

all this exposure to warthunder is actually useful

wahoo

[azure fulcrum]

I still want to test lasers but no PTU access 😩

I think s5 laser canons can do decent dmg to perseus but guardian only has 2 of them so IDK

S4 lasers have crap pen

can't wait to test it sometime

[tawny fern]

i dont understand why spviewer shows the perseus armor damage multiplier as x0.57

but erkul shows it as uhh

-40%

[azure fulcrum]

CIG forgot to change it 1 like they did as all the other ships

[tawny fern]

so which one is correct

[azure fulcrum]

because its 43%

[azure fulcrum]

it takes 57% dmg that means it mitigates 43% both are correct

x1 multiplier means it takes 100% damage get it?

[tawny fern]

spviewer is showing most of the ships having an armor damage multiplier of 1

erkul shows most of them having -40%

[azure fulcrum]

most?

there's like maybe 6 ships that have it

[tawny fern]

am i looking at the wrong page

[jade reef]

These numbers seem fine? It's borderline a skill issue to get hit by 1500 inferno rounds without shooting it down

[azure fulcrum]

yeah thats outdated check the main page itll show the correct values

[jade reef]

It's actually difficult to really contextualize just how astronomical those numbers are

Like, that's the amount of rounds I fire off over several minutes

[azure fulcrum]

inferno has to hit the tiny powerplant on a movin target and it only has 3k rounds

not going to happen lol

whilst getting shot at

[jade reef]

Are people just seething for no reason over the Percy armour?

Like it seems fine asides from the nose bug

[azure fulcrum]

no

because it still gets rekt by anything its own size

hammerhead has better armor

perseus supposed to be a subcap slayer

[jade reef]

But surely the dual S7s fuck up the Hammerhead pretty quickly

[azure fulcrum]

I mean hammerhead has 20% more component armor

[jade reef]

Also A2 must also go down pretty fast? Other than that what sub cap are you fighting? An 890J? A C2?

[azure fulcrum]

haven't tested it

[azure fulcrum]

but yeah not that many subcaps around lol

[jade reef]

And not many combat ones in concept either

[azure fulcrum]

it kinda needs armor because PDCs are useless now

[jade reef]

PDCs not working is a bug though no?

[tawny fern]

im an idiot

[azure fulcrum]

both erkul and SPviewer have a lot of mistakes lol trust neither

[tawny fern]

the one in red is what i was looking at in erkul

[azure fulcrum]

perseus kinda defenseless against fighters now the mantis altfire don't have enough range

[tawny fern]

the one in yellow isnt shown on that chart i posted

[jade reef]

Is that the case for all S3s? Swap the Mantis?

[azure fulcrum]

huh thats new?

[jade reef]

Also the PDCs are fully not working I thought?

[azure fulcrum]

no confirmation from cig?

so IDK

[tawny fern]

well, according to this, perseus has ARMOR damage reduction of -40%, and then the HULL itself has -43%

[azure fulcrum]

the pdcs work but they cant track moving target they miss everything lol

[jade reef]

Every clip I've seen of PTU they're just not firing at all

[tawny fern]

if you look at all of the other ships, perseus is one of the only ships that has HULL damage reduction

[azure fulcrum]

they fire at 700m range

and closer

[jade reef]

Oh wow that is short

[azure fulcrum]

while fighters have 1000-1800 range

[tawny fern]

no physical damage reduction for the hull is listed here

[jade reef]

But I mean surely you just ignore light fighters and let your support craft deal with them in a Percy?

[azure fulcrum]

yeah the PDC nerf was not a mistake

they did it on purpose

[jade reef]

The only times my gunners shoot down light fighters in the Percy has been if they're jousting, otherwise just ignore them because their DPS is irrelevant and we can just Nav run away

[azure fulcrum]

I know I just told you CIG forgot to remove the damage reduction for a few ships including perseus it's gonna get removed in a later patch

[tawny fern]

rip

[jade reef]

DR is gone? I thought it was supposed to be basically immune to S3 and below?

[azure fulcrum]

all the values are turned to 1 for almost all ships

but they overlooked a few lol

[jade reef]

Uhh

Man this patch sounds scuffed AF

[azure fulcrum]

they also forgot to nerf wolf and perseus dps

so prepare for nerf

[jade reef]

Yeah I heard lol

Yeah but isn't all DPS nerfed anyways?

[azure fulcrum]

perseus gonna get nerfed into the ground

it might be good "now"

but it wont be at live

[jade reef]

Oh yeah after sales every good ship gets nerfed into oblivion

I fully expect the wolf to be completely useless too after IAE

[azure fulcrum]

yep both alpha wolf and perseus are brand new ships it's no coincidence

[tawny fern]

wait did cig state this?

[azure fulcrum]

they don't know how to balance perseus because it has too much guns

[jade reef]

Actually even bad ships get nerfed into oblivion after sales, the Santok got nerfed into the ground and it was bad to begin with

[azure fulcrum]

no but the dmg reduction values don't make any sense

[azure fulcrum]

tiny ships like arrow light fighter has more dmg reduction why lol

[tawny fern]

yeah

[azure fulcrum]

trust me its gonna change for perseus

[tawny fern]

and paladin doesnt have any DR

[jade reef]

I think they just literally pulled numbers out of a hat and assigned them randomly to everything

[azure fulcrum]

yeah

[tawny fern]

SAVED

[azure fulcrum]

I think what aqua said: they scaled armor HP exactly with hull HP is true

its very lazy

[azure fulcrum]

looooool

[tawny fern]

DOUBLE SAVED

[jade reef]

Gotta push the patch for Christmas

[jade reef]

This will be nerfed badly

Guarantee the DPS is going down at least 70%

[azure fulcrum]

Yooooooo they bufffed speed wtf

[azure fulcrum]

but no dmg nerf?

[tawny fern]

yeah and kept the range similar

interesting

[jade reef]

CIG would legitimately have to be smoking crack to not nerf the Percy for engineering

[azure fulcrum]

all the DPS went down 70% across all ships except percy and a few others lol

shiv, wolf

ehh I forgot the other one

just the new ships with bespoke weapons I guess

[azure fulcrum]

20 meters less range

why even change it lol

[tawny fern]

idk but its interesting they're actually looking at the guns

and dont change the damage

maybe they need more data idk

[azure fulcrum]

should've buffed speed to 1000 at least

[jade reef]

This is not a coincidence

I have the Wolf and Percy on store credit so when they get nerfed I'll just melt them and buyback whatever is meta

Freedom is having a huge surplus of Store Credit and zero attachment to any ship

[azure fulcrum]

wise choce

[azure fulcrum]

I wish I went that road

I only got 2 CCU locked ships Perseus + Arrastra rn

[jade reef]

oh

[high basin]

I have perseus and zeus es.

[azure fulcrum]

probably locking the railen as my third ship

[high basin]

railen looks pretty stick tbh

[azure fulcrum]

but then I got 300 or so store credit left

[high basin]

I really like the prowler but thats too much

prowler util sorry

[jade reef]

That's like 6 MPUVs

[azure fulcrum]

kruger stingray yay

oh my alpha wolf is also ccu locked

[jade reef]

Man I hope the Stingray gets an interior

[tawny fern]

ur gonna keep ur alpha wolf and perseus and ur gonna like it

[azure fulcrum]

3 ccu locked ships I have now and uhh 700 store credit?

[jade reef]

My other inner peace moment is not caring about CCU chains

Or exclusive ships

I melted an F7A because it was on my Phoenix Emerald Pack and I decided the Phoenix Emerald was not useful so I melted both

Broken a few CCU chains before, had a pretty good one on a 600i I broke because I wanted the F8 and didn't want to give Croberts more money

[azure fulcrum]

chains only make a little sense for very expensive ships

but honestly even having those for 40% discounted store cred is fine

[jade reef]

The only chain I have is a STY off a ref bonus I got for probably like $190 or something lol

[azure fulcrum]

just get GM storecred and then you're free to do whatever and when you want to get out just sell it on GM again

best advice ever

[jade reef]

I don't support RMT because it's bad for the people that actually want to play the game

I was gonna GM my account credit a while ago, remembered the absolute state of the Idris sales and went "nah fuck those guys" and decided to ride the game until it dies

I imagine probably 80% of Idris'/Javs/890s, etc. will never see the verse because they're just investment pieces for scalpers and that's pretty cringe

[azure fulcrum]

like gambling I only spent the amount I'm comfortable with losing

[jade reef]

I probably spent more than I should have on SC but not more than I can afford or care about realistically losing

And every time I look at my SC account I go "this isn't ideal but at least I didn't spend this money on meth or something idk"

[humble anvil]

@azure fulcrum i think perseus seems tankier because it has hull reduction

when the 50% gets stripped away

gonna be a big shot in the gut

[tawny fern]

jesus

[tawny fern]

who posted thgat]

[humble anvil]

OWO

[tawny fern]

oh lol

[lone bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-what-you-deleted-cat-gif-16534979835682612734

[humble anvil]

they made it more railgun : D

and made it a tiny bit more agile

Yaw

13

15

(+15%)

[lone bloom]

Its weird

[humble anvil]

900 speed is a welcome bonus

[lone bloom]

Where is the-70% dmg

[jade reef]

Surely the Percy isn't the only ship with DR rn though?

Like what is going on

[humble anvil]

they're prob trying to figure ou twhat they're going t odo with the ship

prob after IAE is done they'll bring in the real stats

[lone bloom]

You know whats funny

They buff the gun

They buff the agility

[humble anvil]

[lone bloom]

But the one thing we asked for they dont buff

[lone bloom]

Everything back to pre iae

[azure fulcrum]

thats what it looks like I hope its gonna change a lot

[azure fulcrum]

glass cannon xD

[lone bloom]

Losing the hope for armor buff if they buff agility

[jade reef]

I wish they'd just release one (1) ship underpowered and buff it after sales. Surely it's better to release ships under-tuned and then tune them up than release them crazy strong and then piss everyone off when they nerf them after selling them

[azure fulcrum]

2 degrees isn't a very large buff its rather meaningless

[lone bloom]

Starlancer

[azure fulcrum]

but its not a good sign

[humble anvil]

i wonder if CIG makes changes to

ships

just so the team is like 'yeah we're doing stuff'

[azure fulcrum]

its yaw so not as important as pitch and roll

[lone bloom]

continues to roll dices for values

https://tenor.com/view/throwing-dice-quavo-trouble-popped-dice-roll-gif-17702925

[azure fulcrum]

totally

and it will get stripped soon

[tawny fern]

i dont think it will

i think this is how they implement the "heavily armored" portion

[lone bloom]

Now you can apply to work for that Team, you even got your very own dice

[tawny fern]

yeah

ok guys lets roll the dice

aww polaris gets only 1000 hull hp

aww darn

[lone bloom]

I mean does the polaris or idris have a higher amount? If not its a bug

[lone bloom]

https://tenor.com/view/loki-lokiverysad-gif-26198865

[tawny fern]

a bunch of random cars have physical damage reduction, and the anvil arrow

who knows whats going on at cig and why they half assed this ptu

[azure fulcrum]

I think you're right! I guess m50, mirai fury, arrow, merlin is heavily armored now

[jade reef]

Marketing told the devs if they don't have the patch out before Christmas their family is going in the server room ovens

[tawny fern]

now introducing

the HEAVILY ARMORED racing ship

[azure fulcrum]

lets wait till disco updates the ship matrix: M50 the heavily armored interceptor that punches above its weightclass

[lone bloom]

(Server rooms are usually very chill, buuut i guess cigs Servers are always literally burning so fair enough) 🤓

[lone bloom]

And has better agility than a light fighter

[azure fulcrum]

new role: Heavily armored Interceptor gunfighter

[tawny fern]

i honestly didnt even know what a greycat ptv was

this has more physical damage reduction than an anvil paladin

[azure fulcrum]

I think I got a gaycat for free 12 years ago

[lone bloom]

You never been to the orison interior racing track?

[tawny fern]

i thought that was at microtech

[lone bloom]

No

Now the question

How many ptv fit in perseus

Including hallways

[tawny fern]

line the interior with ptv's

spall lining

[rancid copper]

yuh cause certain guys gave feedback and said the ship would feel better if yaw and pitch was identical

told yall here already :p

[azure fulcrum]

best alpha and penetration c-788

s5 omnisky kinda strong for a laser

leonids have 60m slower speed than medusa heh

[minor field]

Omnisky meta

Finally

[azure fulcrum]

omnisky has high alpha that should help against armor

[azure fulcrum]

we're back to arena commander era omnisky meta again

pew pew

[rancid copper]

its horrid 😭

We had that last year, TTK is low

[minor field]

They'll feel so much nicer to use now that ranges force ppl to be closer too

[minor field]

But they're soo cool

[azure fulcrum]

tired of laser repeater meta

[rancid copper]

Omnis rn are way cooler cause they are higher skill

[azure fulcrum]

there should be a tradeoff for having high velocity and firing rate

the tradeoff is more damage!

I don't even want to look at size 3 weapons they're kinda useless now

sadly the perseus needs them

[tawny fern]

s3 and below is like purely anti fighter

like

.50 cal vs warships

[humble anvil]

S3 does nothing against Perseus

Have to strip all armor

That's 78000 armor when a weapon does 100 a second

[azure fulcrum]

I mean for perseus altfire lol look how worthless NDBs are now

and the remote turret s3

[humble anvil]

You don't want to have Gatlings

At all

Omniskys are the way to go

Range + pen

[azure fulcrum]

yeah just firerate could be problematic to track fighters IDK

[humble anvil]

Tbh

[azure fulcrum]

you want high firerate up close

[humble anvil]

Yeah stay with mantis on Perseus, maybe swap ad4b but stay Ballistics

Keep the pips for power

Incase a powerplant gets shot

[azure fulcrum]

hmm I guess omniski s3 do have 1600 range

so thats nice

[humble anvil]

Yes

I can't believe Ares Inferno did well

I geuss nothing to the Idris but why am I surprised

It did nothing to the Perseus

[azure fulcrum]

jesus what happened to NDB firerate?????

[humble anvil]

It's crazy good now

Projectile speed buffed

Oh NDB

[azure fulcrum]

yeah wtf

its dmg sucks too

[humble anvil]

New damage type

Uhm

[azure fulcrum]

.>

[humble anvil]

There's no nullifying it

It's straight true damage to shield n hull

I geuss

No

It's energy base

[azure fulcrum]

oh uh forget about tormentor that one is not updated

[azure fulcrum]

really is this true?

[humble anvil]

No

It's energy

[azure fulcrum]

I've been looking at this chart for a long time now butt I cant decide what s3 to equip perseus with

wait panthers kinda decent

[tawny fern]

sledge

[azure fulcrum]

mantis ammo count 4314

[tawny fern]

too bad you cant take off singes anymore

[azure fulcrum]

used to be 2 133

good news mantis ammo got doubled and its very similar to panther stats but higher pen @humble anvil

you were right mantis not a bad choice at all for fighter deterent

[humble anvil]

Should be okay for it

[azure fulcrum]

just the range sucks its 1000m

shredder 1250

anything with high fire rate has bad range

repeater gattling

omnisky cannon has 1600

[midnight crypt]

Why did they give Perseus another buff to the S8 guns….

[azure fulcrum]

??

what buff

[tawny fern]

😎

[midnight crypt]

900 m/s

[azure fulcrum]

better at blowing fighters out of the sky

it needed

[midnight crypt]

Only went down 5580m range and still somehow out ranges a S10 railgun

[azure fulcrum]

20m nerf was worth the tradeoff

200 IQ move

[midnight crypt]

Perseus can just sit outside the range of the railgun and laser of capital ships and be untouched…..

[tawny fern]

im pretty surprised they nerfed the railgun that much

anything within 5km can easily move out of the way

[azure fulcrum]

sledge got fully updated sooo... the stats are pretty good I think this is definitely worth a try

the range looked like they forgot to update it lol

[tawny fern]

lol i was half joking

but maybe its good idk

especially for anti small ships

[azure fulcrum]

range got buffed actually

wtf

need to try sledge

I already know whats goingg to happen tho xD not going to be able to land shots on fighters

due to 13rpm

[tawny fern]

it has a charge time?

[azure fulcrum]

ohh

[tawny fern]

i didnt know these are charge weapons

[azure fulcrum]

it's basically a ballistic version of the singe

[tawny fern]

hmmmmmmmm

[azure fulcrum]

its going to be fun testing everything

[midnight crypt]

They keep buffing the Perseus to get every ounce of money they can then nerf it to the ground for January’s patch

[azure fulcrum]

and wolf lol

[azure fulcrum]

its getting pretty obvious at this point there's no reason to nerf all weapon dmg except medusa and wolfs

I'm sure john crewe has some sort of excuse for this

[midnight crypt]

Like railgun should have stayed almost the same but double the charge time and reduce damage so it wasn’t overkill. If you hold the charge and not fire in time, blow fuses and damage the power plants. For how bad the nerf is, they could of at least gave the gimbal back to it

Oh @azure fulcrum Perseus yaw went from 13 to 15 as well

[jade reef]

What if, hear me out, we just stop falling for this?

Like fool me once shame on me, fool me checks notes idk like 8 times I think it's time for me to be euthanized

[azure fulcrum]

spectrum is a cesspool lol

I'd be fine if capitals could justify having 10x the hp of subcaps IF the crewcount was 10x of a subcap @midnight crypt

[midnight crypt]

I can see making a new ship slightly better than the rest but it’s to a point now a sub cap ship can now outgun both Polaris and idris because some how not a single one of their guns could even touch the Perseus. Now it pretty much flipped. 2 person Perseus can outgun a Polaris or idris no matter if the cap is solo or have a full crew

[azure fulcrum]

is the railgun really that bad on idris it can't kill perseus?

[midnight crypt]

Got nerfed to under 5km. Perseus is more agile and can sit outside that range. Pretty much how light fighters just sat outside the 2km range but now it’s a “super heavy fighter” sitting outside a 5km range

[azure fulcrum]

ah right that makes sense perseus is kinda like a super heavy fighter now XD but it kites caps lol

until they nerf it into the ground after it gets removed off the pledgestore of course

[midnight crypt]

It probably won’t get nerfed til after ILW to see how sales on it goes before it gets nerfed

Polaris is probably a better option now than idris. The S6 gun out ranges the S7 gun and to the nerf of laser PDCs with the ability to queue up 8 S10 torps now. No point to even use the idris unless you just use it as an armored aircraft carrier to carry a ton of ore pods when mining or storing salvage boxes

Still don’t even have RRR for ships that has hangars…

[tawny fern]

what about laser

i mean

we always "memed" about perseus killing caps

but now that, assuming these stats say the same, its come to fruition

its like wow

[jade reef]

Me when the capital ship hunting ship counters checks notes capital ships

[midnight crypt]

Yeah let me check my notes. Oh Perseus is suppose to kill sub-caps, but out ranges and out damages every ship in the game and with all other ships getting some nerf. Not even fighters can do anything against a Perseus if it has all ballistic PDCs. Ever since idris release, just a couple of light fighters could take it out. But with just one patch, no other ship can touch it. Doesn’t matter that idris got trillion times more health. Means nothing if it can’t even defend itself

[minor field]

The damage on the medusa hasn't been tuned yet, will have to see how that effects it

[tawny fern]

yeah

[minor field]

Idk how much damage matters for penning comps tho

[jade reef]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/92000849236066304/1430212618114826381/tiredcroberts.gif

[tawny fern]

@azure fulcrum rate drip

[azure fulcrum]

nice but the helmet look a bit out of place

[tawny fern]

ok 1 sec

[midnight crypt]

Laser is extremely good but Perseus can just sit outside of the 5km range.

[tawny fern]

oh lmao i didnt see they also nerfed the laser to 5km

[midnight crypt]

Was always 5km

[tawny fern]

oh

well idk

cig already tweaked the medusa cannons and apparently they think it's good at 5.5km where the rest of the guns sit at 1-2km

i strongly think they'll keep changing the ranges though, as they continue testing

[midnight crypt]

Idris always had a weakness to fighters and Perseus was suppose to be the same but then they gave it 6 PDCs and after next patch, Perseus won’t have a weakness besides getting swarmed with a shit ton of ships

Gun ranges should match the size of the guns. S10 should be around 10km. S8 around 8km, S1 around 1km. But they don’t have to be static to that distance. Have some S1 go to 1.2km-1.4km or go below 1km

[tawny fern]

@azure fulcrum ok SAVED

[tawny fern]

well when those gun ranges were leaked

the one that was like 900/1100/1200/1250 etc

i think it was assumed s8 would land around 2000 or something

because it seems like cig just wants to shorten combat distances across the board

and then theres the 5.5km perseus guns

[midnight crypt]

Yeah but that is so unrealistic. Basically swords fighting with massive guns

[tawny fern]

yeah i think the same thing

[midnight crypt]

Battleships from WW2 could shoot 36-42km and a confirm hit being at 24-26km. But Perseus guns being like a battleship goes to 5.6km and them nerfing a literal railgun to be under 5km is mind boggling

[tawny fern]

lol

yeah

but idk if you can even loosely translate real naval gun ranges to something like star citizen

they would have to increase projectile velocities tremendously for one

[midnight crypt]

Yeah like we are gonna soon have these massive fleet battles but cramming all of these ships with in a 5km range

[tawny fern]

but yeah im surprised they nerfed the railgun range AND the laser

[tawny fern]

yeah

its gonna be weird

i mean with 4.5 ptu, it really feels like cig has no idea what they're doing