🔨・build-discussion

[fleet knot]

Mona not good after c1

[modern raven]

Jean sucks ass

[gilded dock]

Guarantee me a kokomi and your next standard banner unit will be dilzc @modern raven

[fleet knot]

Jean cons are goated

[modern raven]

C4 and still trash

[fleet knot]

Tf you smoking

[modern raven]

Actyally I think mine is c3

[gilded dock]

Same here

[modern raven]

Kokonut will be yours but suddenly your wgs and aquilla vanish from your inventory

[fleet knot]

Her c4 is like the only source of anemo shred in the game outside of venti cons

And a c6 anemo traveler? But then you're using mc

And zhongli shield is a dinky 20%

Not worth

[modern raven]

What

[fleet knot]

this c4 is nuts

[gilded dock]

C3 came at like 5 pity after an 85 mona c1 after i lost to mona on kokomi banner

[ebon otter]

mine is only c1

[modern raven]

Wait if you had a guaranteed after Mona why didn’t you whale?

[fleet knot]

iirc, i have 2/2/1/1/1 for d/k/q/j/m

[modern raven]

Ha.

[gilded dock]

Hand over your bank details and i will

[ebon otter]

flute

[modern raven]

Funny you think I can afford that

[fleet knot]

Buy me a phone

[modern raven]

Carry me in oceanid

[ebon otter]

i also hate the look of the flute

[gilded dock]

And it isnt even good

[modern raven]

Imagine

[ebon otter]

remembering the time some jean main roasted me for making her physical

[modern raven]

Nah nah physical is kewl

[ebon otter]

they were like ugh you dont deserve jade cutter anemo jean is way better

like

okay..

[fleet knot]

im gacha stunlocked rn

cant do shit

[modern raven]

My Albedo tho

[gilded dock]

I run her on amenoma because it solves any er issues

[ebon otter]

i actually started levelling that today

but then i need to find a crit rate helm

because without the black sword/jade cutter she has like 30% crit rate

[modern raven]

Pull

[gilded dock]

It's like the flute, but sexier and with an actual passive

[fleet knot]

sorry i have standards

[modern raven]

LMFAOOO

[ebon otter]

BHAH

[fleet knot]

jade cutter literally doggie

[ebon otter]

i wanted the donut

[modern raven]

I loge jade cutrer

Ir looks so oretty on my albedo

[fleet knot]

sorry for your L

[modern raven]

Says the Ganyu main

[fleet knot]

im sitting on about 330 wishes rn

[ebon otter]

whta tej fuf

[modern raven]

Waste enough to leave yiu with 180

[gilded dock]

Once i get kokomi, she's at 90/90 1-10-10 with 40k+ hp on r5 prototype amber

[modern raven]

who are you saving up for next?

Why not 50k Hp

[fleet knot]

raiden c2 -> c3
kazuha c0 -> c2
mist splitter
maybe ayato

then ganyu c6

[modern raven]

really interested in what ayato's gameplay will be like

[modern raven]

I can send you leaks

[gilded dock]

HB circlet and i got 165% ER from substats

[modern raven]

sure

Literally his whole kit has been leaked

[modern raven]

link?

Lemmie send

[fleet knot]

discord.gg/hutao

just join that

[gilded dock]

Anyone that claims to follow leaks and isnt in that server is just a poser /s

[modern raven]

where in that server do i go

[fleet knot]

i think there is a self role for leaks?

and then you check the leaks announcement channel

idk, i dont use the server and i recommend you dont too

theres just that one channel to see

[modern raven]

i see it now

his kit

[fleet knot]

also you can just google "<character name> honey impact" and you can find details there too

[modern raven]

Oh I don’t use that server im in another one that I actually talk in other channels in and they just happen to have active leaks

well this is exciting

Let me find his idles and bursts

wonder what teams he'll be used in

electro-charged perhaps?

[gilded dock]

@modern raven my current artis for kokomi
not the prettiest, but 165% ER at 41k+ HP seems good enough

[modern raven]

also, i'm wondering if i should pull for ayato even though my xingqiu is very much built

[modern raven]

He’s a main hydro dps that specializes in normal attacks

[modern raven]

ye i know

[modern raven]

I see those crit rate rolls /j

so his style will be like childe

and i imagine he'll work very well with raiden

[river ore]

@modern raven has leveled up to LEVEL 5

[modern raven]

Somwthing like that

He gots nuts with Ayaka in a freeze comp

[steady stream]

How much dmg per hit r u doing during burst per auto?

[gilded dock]

I LITERALLY DO NOT OWN HER YET

[steady stream]

How would i know lol

[gilded dock]

I'd show her full kit and not just artis for once

[steady stream]

Oh sure lol

[fleet knot]

sorry falthis but that is way too vague

[gilded dock]

Though, had that one goblet i have gotten been a 5star, i prob wouldve selected hydro goblet instead

[gilded dock]

I have mentioned me wanting kokomi for literal weeks now

[steady stream]

Curious though

[fleet knot]

theyre new

who cares what you've been doing for weeks

[round narwhal]

^ 😭

[steady stream]

Would you use hp + healing bonus art or hydro + hp art for the last one

[fleet knot]

not to mention being a kokomi wanter is fuckin weird

[steady stream]

Well sadly i only pop in once a while

To see if there is any good knowledge to absorb

[ebon otter]

NOOOOOOOO

[gilded dock]

HP HP HB or HP Hydro HB probably

[steady stream]

Cool

[gilded dock]

She's mainly there to apply hydro and heal for tazecrose, but i dont get a good goblet for her.

[indigo cedar]

Yanfei dps artifacts build? I have c3 of her

I m on ar 49

Have widsith r0

[rigid crater]

Who’s the strongest 4 star dps unit?

[fleet knot]

Xiangling

Sucrose is one of the best drivers in the game (for taser comps)

[rustic lily]

4pc crimson maybe. That’s how i built her. She’s my pyro dps

[fleet knot]

Wtf that says yanfei?

I answered for yae

https://c.tenor.com/zu4gNl1O9g0AAAAM/penguin-hide.gif

[gritty tusk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPMJ8juK-3Y

[gilded dock]

should do a look into MSR vs Sac Sword on my own XQ ngl

[rustic lily]

is kokomi an 'OK' alternative to XQ? for raiden national

[gritty tusk]

Well she can apply hydro thats for sure but damage wise ofc Xinqiu is better 😀

[gilded dock]

@rustic lily for raiden? not really
but if you want to run raiden national alongside tazecrose of freeze comps, she's rather decent

since she combines hydro application and healing into one team slot

though keep in mind ayato also is around the corner

I'm grabbing kokomi because she fits with my tazecrose comp and XQ is needed for raiden national. also both XQ and kokomi can be used in my freeze comp

[rustic lily]

got it thanks!
last
if XQ part of raiden team, 4pc heart of depth? or 2pc HOD + 2pc noblesse? or 4pc noblesse or 4pc EOSF

[gilded dock]

still 4ESF typically, since you still want quite a bit ER
but if you got 2HoD 2NO with great subs on Sac Sword build, it's not worth having to farm a third ESF set

[rustic lily]

got it. I have XQ at 187 ER but poor crit ratio 19/138 so imma invest on better artifs

[river ore]

@rustic lily has leveled up to LEVEL 8

[gilded dock]

that's a big yikes

[rustic lily]

yeah

[gilded dock]

assuming you run him with sac sword and not at C6, you should have like eaisly 180% ER with 50/130 ratio

[rustic lily]

yep he's on sac sword, c6 too.. but haven't invested time to built him on artifs so that's why he's low on stats. but i plan to build him soon since its for raiden team so goo thing i asked in advance

[ebon ginkgo]

im building Xiangling just for the hell of it, which of these is better (both are 4p emblem)

dont mind the atk right now her weapon is level 1

[fleet knot]

First one will do more damage but it has low er

So it's good if you're using Raiden ig

Otherwise, the second one

[ebon ginkgo]

makes sense

because i never built xiangling i just did a quick run of raiden national in abyss and god damn

her burst is doing 17k with a level 1 weapon

[fleet knot]

It is the single most popular team for a reason

[ebon ginkgo]

oh her burst is still level 5 too holy shit

i think the only team that's cleared PMA faster was my mono geo team

[gilded dock]

yeah

raiden, compared to other national teams, performs similarly in damage output

iirc

but it has one major advantage

you literally don't care about energy requirements, since you meet all of them

which is also why raiden won't just get replaced that easily in that comp

[ebon ginkgo]

damn i dropped below 10 mil mora

but i managed to get her weapon to 80 somehow, dunno where i got that many ascension mats

[gilded dock]

which weapon?

[ebon ginkgo]

wavebreaker's fin

i got it to R4 from homa rerun and pjc banner

i'd use the catch but raiden has it

[fleet knot]

Wave breaker at r3 >= the catch for my xiangling

But Raiden absolutely needs that catch for 4* weaps

So that's a good combo

[gilded dock]

Wavebreaker's Fin: [R5] Wavebreaker's Fin is equal to or outperforms Staff of Homa, depending on your total team burst cost.

and Homa ~= EL ~= The Catch for XL

[pine sinew]

ER needed

[fleet knot]

I will die on the hill that catch > homa for xiangling on 90% of people's accounts

Assuming you farm artis

Homa is only comparable if you've got shit all around

[gilded dock]

given similar value distribution, the three weapons are about equal. Homa and EL are ranked higher because they are R1 and not R5, so it's advice directed at whales.
but yeah, most of the time, the catch is the best option, period

[fleet knot]

Don't forget that the weapon comparisons are done with abysmal quality artifacts that anyone could get in a week

Oh, I literally never consider 5* weaps over r1

Except maybe standard banner weaps

Which aren't good with refinements anyways (other than Amos, which is the best by a lot at r1 regardless)

[ebon ginkgo]

ok i actually found a different flower that could change my xiangling build

this is with atk% sands now

[fleet knot]

I recommend the optimizer, xiangling is a perfect candidate for it

As her damage source is a monolith

[pine sinew]

Which set?

[ebon ginkgo]

4p emblem

[pine sinew]

Nice

But need more er

[ebon ginkgo]

better?

cr takes a hit

[pine sinew]

Ye

Sands er now?

[ebon ginkgo]

yeah

[fleet knot]

You don't need 195 er with Raiden national

Straight up

[gilded dock]

yeah, sure, but the theorycrafters and brainfarts want to appease as many as possible, so "possible ceiling upgrade" are considered slightly. hence the ~=, but order of preference

though I wish I had R5 Wavebreaker's Fin. but since kokomi is second, I can't risk it.
maybe akuoumaru is on the second weapon banner and I can R4/R5 that

[pine sinew]

Making for raiden national?

Oh sry didn't know

[ebon ginkgo]

dunno what im doing with her just kinda building her, but if i use her then yeah probably raiden national

been actually building some units i dont normally use recently

[fleet knot]

Xiangling vaps on rational, right?

Might want more em, too

[pine sinew]

Em then use bane on her

[fleet knot]

Since she snapshots Bennett, you can drop the atk% timepiece for an em one

[gilded dock]

Catch >>>>>>>>>>>> Bane

[fleet knot]

Na wavebreaker is definitely better than db

[pine sinew]

Ikr

[fleet knot]

Yeah

[pine sinew]

In just case need more em can use db

[ebon ginkgo]

this is with em sands

[pine sinew]

Gud

[fleet knot]

300 em pog

[gilded dock]

2400 ATK with bennett buff and these stats doesn't look bad at all

what ref is wavebreaker again? R3?

[ebon ginkgo]

4

[river ore]

Wavebreaker's Fin

A naginata forged from luminescent material deep in the ocean depths. It was once the possession of the tengu race.

Watatsumi Wavewalker

For every point of the entire party's combined maximum Energy capacity, the Elemental Burst DMG of the character equipping this weapon is increased by 0.12%/0.15%/0.18%/0.21%/0.24%. A maximum of 40%/50%/60%/70%/80% increased Elemental Burst DMG can be achieved this way.

Type

Polearm

Rarity

4 ⭐

Source

Wish

Base ATK

620

Secondary Stat

ATK% 13.8%

​

​

Ascensions Material

Mask ​ ​ Concealed Claw ​ ​ Hanguard

※ Stats numbers are at max level

[fleet knot]

That's a ton of er

[pine sinew]

Yep

[gilded dock]

so 65.1% Ult DMG Bonus in national

if you grab R5 from this banner, it rises to 74.4%

[ebon ginkgo]

not pulling on this banner anymore saving for ayato now

got skyward blade and pjc from this banner tho

[gilded dock]

fin will always find a rerun at some point

[ebon ginkgo]

mhm

[gilded dock]

if I win 50:50 on kokomi, will try to R5 akuoumaru for beidou tbh

[ebon ginkgo]

and my account is getting to the point where, in terms of performance, i do not need new characters so ive been pulling on weapon more recently

every character ive gotten after Raiden has just been because i liked them not because i needed them

[gilded dock]

yeah kinda the same

but yeah, my current goal is kokomi => R5 Akuoumaru
76.8% Q DMG Bonus from that weapon seems juicy on beidou

[fleet knot]

That's how it goes, yeah

[ebon ginkgo]

my zhongli + ningguang is plenty for spiral abyss, but i got itto because he was cool and made mono geo feasible. got albedo because i like his character, want ayato because he looks cool

[fleet knot]

Weapons for characters you use >> characters that force you to bench already built characters

Imo

[ebon ginkgo]

i managed to snag an R1 akuoumaru from the polar star banner but i dont think im gonna use it any time soon considering i have three WGS and an Unforged from EL fail

[gilded dock]

my issue with WGS is that some abyss floors it feels rahter worthless with bosses

[ebon ginkgo]

i pretty much ignore that part of its passive

units with it already get like 2700 atk

[fleet knot]

Same and same

It's a bonus not a focus

70% attack at all times with 600 base attack is already valuable compared to all the 4* options except high refine SS and akuomaru

I spelled that wrong I think, but eh

[gilded dock]

but it's kinda satisfying getting to like 130%+ DMG bonus and 70 / 150 crit with these new inazuman weapons

akuoumaru, only one u missing, though the correct romanji would have a stroke over o, so not that far off either way

As in akuōmaru
Though akuoumaru is how they wrote it, which is technically correct

[tender agate]

helloo i want to have thoma in my team but i dont know who he is good with and how i should build him can someone help me please?

[gilded dock]

the issue with thoma is you never know the actual strength of his shield, so he's nigh unusable due to any lack of indicators

the only real team I've seen him in was as a sub for zhongli in a hu tao team

[modern raven]

Hp

Just remember his shield needs stacks

Or this

[river ore]

Thoma

SUPPORT 👍

**
**Thoma ideally wants to focus on shield over damage, and his burst uptime is required to achieve better shields, which is why he needs ER% on top of HP%.
Crit Rate is an option when using Favonius Lance.
**
Regarding Weapon Choices:
Black Tassel: At [C4], Thoma gains 15 energy when he fires his Elemental Burst. This effectively reduces his energy cost to 65 and makes it possible to use Black Tassel with ER sands instead of ER weapon with ER sands to furthermore strengthen his shield.

MAIN STATS

Sands: Energy Recharge / HP%
Goblet: HP%
Circlet: HP%

SUB STATS

1. Energy Recharge
2. HP%
3. Crit Rate
4. Flat HP

TALENT PRIORITY

1. Skill
2. Burst

WEAPON

1. Favonius Lance (4★)
2. Engulfing Lightning (5★)
3. "The Catch" [R5] (4★)
4. Prototype Starglitter (4★)
5. Skyward Spine (5★)
6. Black Tassel (3★)

ARTIFACT

1. Noblesse Oblige (4)
2. Tenacity of the Millelith (2) Emblem of Severed Fate (2)
3. Emblem of Severed Fate (4)
4. The Exile (2) Scholar (2)

[long scaffold]

In theory, u can build Toma completely in hp, circlet - crit rate, put Favon on him and find in the sub hp/er.

But he is highly specialized, there are no teams where he would look good at the moment

[fleet knot]

Hyper hutao is the team he was made for

Low pyro application to not steal vaps from hutao

But enough pyro application to get a pyro swirl for vv shred and other buffs

[long scaffold]

Hypertao? Tao, bluedude, toma and sucrose?

[fleet knot]

Yeah

It's her strongest team comp, about 10-20% stronger than the double geo variant

But it's harder to play because no healer

Granted you do have a shield, heals from xingqiu, and hutao heals herself

But if you take a lot of damage it's not enough

[long scaffold]

I am of the opinion that the team of: Tao, bluebruh, diona and rosaria would be better

[fleet knot]

Na

Freeze melt is kinda quirky

[long scaffold]

2geo - a team for those who do not know how to dodge attacks, of course it will be weaker, but more comfortable for casual players

[fleet knot]

Don't sleep on albedo's personal damage

It's very good

[gilded dock]

yeah

20k / 2s isn't out of reach even with subpar builds

as long as you got cinnabar spindle

[fleet knot]

With cinnabar yeah

If you don't have cinnabar then albedo suffers a fuck ton

[gilded dock]

without spindle, your top damage is capped at like 17k or so

spindle + gorou at C0 just adds 10k to that

and C6 gorou would add even more

[long scaffold]

Yea, sure, Albedo is good at that, but will it make sense if everyone dies before a few ticks of his flower? Ult gives us em (a2) and damage. Albedo makes 2geo relevant, but still loses out in terms of power.

[gilded dock]

good luck beating like PMA in 5 ticks

even albedo adding an average 10k DPS to your team's output + particle generation can add up over time

and if we go event 4star and relative 5star unit, spindle was the best one so far.

[fleet knot]

yeah i mean, if you want to talk about a level of power such that enemy hp gates become the primary factor

you dont need meta anymore

youre far beyond the scope

[long scaffold]

If we're talking about meta:

Let's say we have a Diona capable of wearing the Instructor set, giving us +120 EM. We have a Rosaria that can be assembled, for example: 4 royal or 4 emblem (lol) + favon (favon will generate extra energy, which BLUEGUY can use with the right balance of stats, thus emphasizing in their own stats on crit dmg/rate/atk (if of course we're trying to get damage from the whole team) (yes, there is a situation where we can get rid of p5 sacsword and replace it with PJC), and the Rosaria will give us +15 crate. Constant, stable vap/melt reactions (provided, of course, that our opponent is not a boss).

I highly doubt 2geo will outdo this team in ad.

Of course, I didn't write it very well, and it wasn't all calculated, but...

[fleet knot]

as much as i talk about meta and stuff, the idea of running the 4* sets is so lame to me
like, nobody levels those sets up, its basically not real

[long scaffold]

Getting the full Instructor set is quite easy, we can disregard his stats, the main thing for us is the affix

[fleet knot]

supports want burst uptime = high er

you still need decent sets

and forcing the notoriously low damage support to be on field to proc reactions is just

its not something that anyone actually does

[long scaffold]

+120 em tao > diona ult uptime
In any case, I meant perfect substats, of course, lack of proper er will hit us

[fleet knot]

you know what else gives 120 em

or more

AND has vv shred?

sucrose

not to mention 48% attack if you so choose

a well built sucrose can easily give 200+ EM

[long scaffold]

but diona generates cryo rofls (energy), which rosaria will also be able to receive, thus having ult uptime

[fleet knot]

which diona cant do unless hutao is over half hp
and since rosaria wont be doing any reactions, her damage wont be something to write home about

[long scaffold]

Are you suggesting replacing dion with sucrose? Yes, mb, but the problem described above will not go away. Ideally, we should calculate the average damage of tao, blue, diona, rosaria and tao, blue, sucrose, rosaria and draw conclusions based on that, but we were talking about comparing with ad 2geo team

[fleet knot]

considering the topic was hypertao vs this freeze melt hutao comp you mentioned

yeah

ig if youre comparing to double geo, perhaps

double geo still has 20 shred + 15% damage bonus + not kept over half hp (33% more damage bonus) + way more sub dps than double cryo can offer

you end up having to you whacky 4* sets to deal with ER problems and probably just do less overall

[long scaffold]

I'll try to approach hypertao from a different angle.
What is the idea behind this team? I only see it as an alternative to 2geo, which you claim does 10-20% more damage. Going back to the idea of the team I want to focus specifically on Toma, what exactly he gives us, what a significant increase? (+20% atk we do not take into account, because especially on dps it does not affect, do not forget about stat's overcup)

Also, I noticed that you do not take into account the affix from Homa.

[fleet knot]

He gives pyro application for sucrose to swirl

Because without a second pyro unit, sucrose/kazuha/etc can't swirl pyro at all

Meaning you lose 40% res shred + whatever else the unit may offer

Also Thoma constellations provide damage bonus aswell

Basically, he is the best second pyro option, with alternatives being tankfei (more defense less damage bonus), xinyan (sub dps ig? Not really worth), xiangling (takes too many vaps from hutao), amber (0 redeeming qualities without constellations that are impossible to get, and even then still very mid)

So the concept is literally just "the typical hutao duo + vv shred", which is basically enough to make it the best option by default

And yeah 25% atk from pyro resonance as you mentioned, which is easy to downplay
But hutao with a 5* weapon gets almost as much atk from atk as she does from hp

It's very easy to underrate atk by virtue of hp being better, but it is by no means bad or useless

[long scaffold]

From what the constellations can give, I see +15 affix on c6.
Amber with constellations would be more useful, also do not exclude the possibility of wearing elegy.
If we're comparing the efficiency of teams, then in approximately equal conditions, it's incorrect to refer to the difficulties in obtaining consts on Amber.

[long scaffold]

Tao gives himself quite a lot of atk from hp, also take into account affixes from Homa, with +25% atk we already have a possible overcup. Yes, it's not bad, if we have not sacrificed for this critrolls and slot in the team, but it does not give a significant increase.

[fleet knot]

i have not discounted elegy, amber basically needs c6r5 to compete, and even then its a glass cannon comp

c6r1 (already unreasonable, nobody but whales have high const amber), is just bad

it definitely is reasonable to refer to the difficulties in obtaining constellations

because if literally nobody has it, its not an option

regardless of what the theory is

in theory all my teams would be better if i had r5 5* weapons, but its quite difficult to get that, so i dont consider it

its the same thing here

basically, hyper hutao has this from buffs (excluding xingqiu DR, as all hutao teams have that)
200 em
73% atk (ttods + pyro resonance)
-40% pyro resistance
35% damage bonus (sucrose c6, thoma c6)
and with the strongest 4* shield available and no major heals outside of hutao's burst, maintaining < 50% hp is much more reasonable than with diona or another healer (33% damage bonus, 300+ more attack from homa)

replacing thoma with c6r1 amber, you gain:
100 em
35% atk
but you lose
15% damage bonus
literally all survivability, this is by all means a glass cannon team, very impractical to play

often times, xingqiu's damage reduction and heals are actually enough to sustain a team, this is how i play too
but it is certainly not enough when hutao has such significant hp costs

and compare hypertao w/ thoma to double geo
you gain:
a stronger shield
better sub dps
-20% hydro resitance

you lose:
80 em
20% damage bonus
73% attack
-20% pyro resistance

thats a ton to lose, but albedo's sub dps genuinely makes up for a huge portion of that lost damage

which is why hypertao is only 10-20% better than double geo

[long scaffold]

If we do theory, we do the calculation either under roughly the same conditions, or with the caveat that we do not have something, respectively, the results will be quite different from each other.

"replacing thoma with c6r1 amber, you gain:
100 em
35% atk
but you lose
15% damage bonus
literally all survivability, this is by all means a glass cannon team, very impractical to play" - wouldn't an amber with an elegy give more of a boost than a toma? Tao can survive without shields, when comparing damage, convenience takes second place

[fleet knot]

i agree that for 99% of genshin characters, defense / comfort takes a distant second place

this is not the case with hutao

a team that is 3x harder to play and only provides extra buffs to stats that are already very high (while losing damage bonus, one of the most valuable damage-related stats)

is just not worth it

assuming you even have the option at all, which practically nobody does

[long scaffold]

For example? If you take a melt ganyu, she needs a shield, but not for survivability, but for continuous spam hold, which will increase the average dps.

[fleet knot]

<@&874036938351448094>

[fleet knot]

i disagree that ganyu needs a shield if youre very used to the timing of her charged shot
the enemies in this game have huge windup times, and ganyu is actually able to release her charged shot early and still get the level 2 bloom

so the combination of "ganyu can charged shot faster than people think" and "enemies attack slower than people realize", you can actually almost always get a charged shot out

source: ive used ganyu without a shield daily since 1.2

[long scaffold]

I assumed what you meant by taking ganyu + pyro archon

[fleet knot]

?

[long scaffold]

Okay, my English is really bad, I'll try to explain.
"i agree that for 99% of genshin characters, defense / comfort takes a distant second place" - I was trying to figure out which characters you would give me as an example, settling on ganyu + xiangling as a possible example on your part

[fleet knot]

oh, hutao and xiao are the only characters where i would say defense is a must
and thats because they lower their own hp constantly

with every other character, you can always just reset the abyss and dodge a little better

it only costs like a minute per attempt anyways

[long scaffold]

OMG

fck

[fleet knot]

for ganyu xiangling, yeah a shield is probably important
i prefer ganyu kazuha
or freeze ganyu

where you dont need a shield

[long scaffold]

I'm an idiot, I didn't translate your sentence correctly.
"takes a distant second place" I took it as "comfort is not the least of these".

[fleet knot]

to rephrase

for most characters, comfort is not important

in the context of meta

[long scaffold]

Okay, that's taken care of. I don't think we should interrupt the discussion like this. We need an inference, or we can continue discussing these teams. What do you think? If we're going to summarize in any way, then: 2geo < 2cryo, taoamber, and your option hypertao. In my opinion: 2cryo > hypertao (BUT, this needs to be supported by objective calculations, which none of us have done, => this, at the moment, remains moot. Taoamber > hypertao, but hypertao is more comfortable in terms of survivability of tao itself (I personally have it in question, since tao, again for me, survives without shield). Do you agree?

I just took suc + rosa out of the totals because I hadn't properly considered it before

[modern raven]

now that i've read the ayato kit leak, i'm wondering if i should pull for him even though my xingqiu is (somewhat) well built. i don't have any main hydro dps, and i don't have any other banner characters other than ganyu.

[fleet knot]

Well ayato feels like he might synergize reasonably well with xingqiu (as a battery) or ganyu (as a freeze enabler that does damage rather than buff)

Numbers aside, he might just have useful utility

[wise oak]

venti/ kazuha ganyu ayato and diona

[modern raven]

i'm using diona as ganyu's battery, should diona use sac or r3 favonius?

[wise oak]

sac

imo

[modern raven]

should i prioritize farming or events?

[quasi abyss]

events

[fleet knot]

Farming usually costs resin

Events haven't cost resin since 1.2

[humble pecan]

Commissions > Events > Farming

[fleet knot]

resin > dailies > events > etc grinding (world quests, materials, mob drops)

[ocean ember]

Afaik, it has been proven with numbers before that double cryo is the one with the lowest damage potential, or about the same as double geo iirc. I thiiink it's mentioned somewhere in KQM's guide for Tao. This was due to the inconsistencies when trying to melt and that melt isn't that big of an upgrade over reverse vaping, as it was actually around a 33% damage increase iirc.

On the other hand, iirc again, Tao with Amber has the highest damage potential, but it's highly impractical to actually use and it does require C6 Amber plus Elegy (preferably R5 too). Thoma (or Tankfei) instead of Amber is still higher damage than other comps, both with Sucrose and Kazuha I think (though I'd guess Sucrose would be better overall, unless you factor in Kazuha C2).

Finally, I'd like to add that I agree with Balakin, Hu Tao and Xiao both need some sort of defence or healing, since it's not a case of being good enough at dodging, but their natural loss of HP. That's the reason why Hu Tao + Amber is highly impractical (plus the need of Amber cons and Elegy).

Sorry for interrupting the convo lmao, I myself like playing Tao and, while I do wanna try double cryo at some point, based on what I researched at some point, it's the lowest damage potential comp from the usual ones (Tao with VV, double geo and double cryo), iirc.

[fleet knot]

2.0 / 1.5 = 1.33, so yeah that checks out

i had to leave to get food, forgot to get back to that one

[quasi abyss]

is barbara a hp healer or sm atk one?

[bleak river]

Hp iirc

[urban plaza]

Hp

[fleet knot]

hp indeed

[quasi abyss]

ty

[modern raven]

When is ayato being released?

[ocean ember]

Next patch

Most likely first banner

[gilded dock]

<-< like it's obv

[modern raven]

I figured

I doubt I will get him since my pity is very low right now, but I’ll try 🙂

[ocean ember]

If you're aiming for him, I recommend to save your wishes. Don't know if you do it, but "building pity" isn't a thing, just in case.

[modern raven]

Ye I’m gonna try to grind a lot on the weekends assuming I don’t have hw

[fleet knot]

first vs second banner is never really obvious

tbh

[gilded dock]

I mean that he's in the next patch

[fleet knot]

well sure

[gilded dock]

and you should always expect them first half, just for the worst-case

[fleet knot]

reasonable, but thats looking perhaps too far in to what is otherwise a simple question

[modern raven]

Who do you think could get a rerun next?

[ocean ember]

It's speculated Ayaka, Yoimiya, Venti and/or Kazuha

[modern raven]

I’m thinking maybe Klee?

[ocean ember]

Kazuha and/or Venti is pretty much guaranteed due to abyss blessing or bonus or whatever it's called

[modern raven]

Oh yeah we haven’t seen venti in a while either

[gilded dock]

just wait for like 3 more weeks and you will know @modern raven

[ocean ember]

Klee could too, specially if Venti comes, but who knows

[gilded dock]

like

you don't seem interested in wishing this patch

might as well just wait for official word

[modern raven]

AFAIK venti has had the longest wait so far

With Klee second I think

[modern raven]

Ye yae doesn’t seem useful

[gilded dock]

then just wait for a good damn 3 weeks

like come on

event banner data isn't in the beta

[modern raven]

Does ayaka need a battery?

[fleet knot]

yes

usually diona or rosaria

[modern raven]

And I’m guessing you also need to build er

Like ganyu does

[fleet knot]

140ish is good

[modern raven]

Still don’t understand what ER standards are though

Or hp or def or atk

Like what’s considered good bad or average

[fleet knot]

hp and def are literally non factors for characters which dont scale with those stats

completely worth neglecting to get more damage

ER is only valued because it helps you burst more

= more damage

[modern raven]

Who’s the best battery of each element currently other than diona for cryo and xingqiu for hydro?

[fleet knot]

bennett for pyro

raiden for electro

or fischl

or rather, electro resonance is the electro battery

[modern raven]

And sucrose for anemo?

[fleet knot]

ya

or venti

jean is good too

[modern raven]

And dendro doesn’t exist yet

[fleet knot]

the only thing about ER standards is that they can vary wildly between people depending on artifact quality and playstyle

a good ER minimum is whatever you need in order to burst on cooldown

because for most teams, bursts are the biggest part of the damage

unless youre ganyu

except ganyu can abuse her burst to make it one of the strongest in the game aswell

shes just cracked

[modern raven]

If melt ganyu is using 4 wanderer with hamayumi, should you use the burst when you can or never use it so you can use the passive?

[fleet knot]

melt ganyu never uses her burst

but freeze ganyu can do more total damage if youre fighting 3 or more enemies

[modern raven]

so melt ganyu should keep burst gauge at full so she can use hamayumi

If you’re f2p that is

[fleet knot]

yeah you can do that, but melt ganyu can also just use proto crescent

[modern raven]

Yes but not every enemy has weak spot

So build her ER for hamayumi and generic stats?

And with cryo goblet too

And em?

[fleet knot]

enemies without a weakpoint are few and far between

and for the ones that dont

theyre usually fodder enemies

like slimes

[modern raven]

What about bosses?

[fleet knot]

all i know is that the weekly boss childe specifically doesnt have a weakpoint

unsure about the others

too bad genshin wiki and community at large is useless when it comes to googling these questions

[modern raven]

I don’t think dragon has weak spot

Or azdaha

[fleet knot]

but regardless, proto with no weakpoint bonus is not that much weaker than hamayumi

and its much stronger with

you can always run the numbers through GO and see which is better for you

[fleet knot]

melt ganyu never spends her burst, so she doesnt need any ER

and yeah, main stats would likely be EM/cryo/crit

but if you have good EM substats, or if youre using sucrose, atk/cryo/crit is good too

melt ganyu is always paired with bennett, so the missing attack from using an EM timepiece is not an issue

[modern raven]

I mean just a little bit of er for triggering hamayumi passive

[modern raven]

Wdym GO

[fleet knot]

https://frzyc.github.io/genshin-optimizer/#/

genshin optimizer

very pog

[modern raven]

I’ll try that tomorrow then I should sleep soon

[fleet knot]

takes a hot minute to do first time setup and to learn, but once you've learned how to use it, i believe that this is the single most useful tool in all of the genshin community

bar none

[bleak river]

<@&874036938351448094>

[rustic plank]

it is

[wise oak]

u asked that already

[ocean ember]

That's a scam

[wise oak]

oh

[fleet knot]

<@&874036938351448094>

here aswell

#🌎・out-of-topic message

[burnt thunder]

does anyone know if kazuha is coming in 2.6 or later?

i need to know what artifacts i should put on him bc i dont have EM no luck getting any so far

[gilded dock]

literally just wait for the announcement in 2.5 weeks

[gilded dock]

4pc Viridescent Venerer @ EM/EM/EM is literally the only build

[elder light]

@modern raven if i switch his circlet he gets like 135% er

[hoary turret]

so much luck for itto haver

[elder light]

this arts arent actually good tbh 💀

[hoary turret]

but the sub stats are

[elder light]

but hey at least its consistent with that 60% crit

[hoary turret]

mine was way worse

40/160 crit lol

[elder light]

oh man itto was at 40% too a while back

thankfully he got more

[gilded dock]

my Noelle atm is at
DEF: 799+1991 == 2790
Crit: 51.6 / 232.2
ER: 124.0%
Total ATK during Q: 4928

[silent tulip]

big numbers

[modern raven]

I suddenly feel a lot better about my albedo build

[gilded dock]

and R1 Redhorn on NA == 2829

[elder light]

nah my substats are shit i kmow😔

[modern raven]

Diff feather but

[elder light]

At least i have 60% crit rate and 200 + crt dmg 🥱

[modern raven]

Nahr

You wish you had my goblet

[gilded dock]

yeah, that's currently impossible for me.
Husk domain really doeswn't like me all too much

[elder light]

I have a better one on zhongli 🥱

[hoary turret]

yeah you've gone lucky with your rolls

[elder light]

theyre not that good but thanks🥺

[gilded dock]

my artis on noelle atm
GO didn't want to display them without a shitton of white space, so I had to put them together in paint.net

[hoary turret]

you'll get good artifacts soon

[elder light]

ty 🥺

[fleet knot]

?

it looks like this on the artifacts page

[gilded dock]

Husk 4pc effect takes like 20 lines

[fleet knot]

ic

i mean, its not that much whitespace

but thats fine

[urban cobalt]

How good is yae miko? I got her just now

[wise oak]

oo nicee

[gilded dock]

a lot of people hype her up, but CN is on fire due to all her issues, and spinning conspiracy theories and stuff

[modern raven]

i have a reverse vape team with diluc, xingqiu and sucrose. bennett is on the other team, so who should fill in the last spot?

[gilded dock]

What is the other team?

[fleet knot]

personally, i like diluc with double anemo

i use kazuha jean

[silent tulip]

So, lets say im using Chongyun as a DPS in a shatter comp (Chong, XQ, Diona, Sucrose)
If i replaced Diona with Ganyu and gave prototype amber to Sucrose, would that work?

[gilded dock]

If you use ganyu, might as well just build a proper freeze or melt comp

[silent tulip]

Nah, her attacks bore me already and it's been less than a banner

[urban plaza]

Y'all making me question Ganyu😭

[silent tulip]

She is good, dealing 50k per charged shot is for sure amazing

[gilded dock]

I'll take her

[inner ravine]

I mean I haven't built my ganyu yet but when I used my friends' it was a decent experience but nowhere near as fun as basically any other dps for me

[silent tulip]

I'm just saying I dont want her as a dps in a non-meta team

[silent tulip]

So anyway, would the extra dps outweigh the extra dodging required?

[fleet knot]

maybe hot take

ganyu has the most engaging gameplay of the main dps because she isnt a complete slave to genshin's lame ass auto targeting system

[silent tulip]

That's true

its good you dont have to worry about auto targetting

[fleet knot]

being able to straddle the gap between 2 enemies to make better effective use of her aoe

being able to herd enemies around to abuse quadratic scaling with her burst

having 3 very different, meta viable teams

and just the general tempo of her gameplay

is all very nice

[silent tulip]

Hm

[fleet knot]

i do not like charged shots on any other bow unit

[silent tulip]

I suppose that is true

[fleet knot]

but ganyu's blooms has a whole load of things come together

that just makes it better

also charged shot cancels

room for player expression

[silent tulip]

Ok, perhaps its too engaging for me then.

[fleet knot]

but yeah, her gameplay definitely isnt for everyone

[inner ravine]

yeah I definitely see that part of it as well

don't get me wrong I can still enjoy ganyu's gameplay I just wish it was a bit more... fast

[silent tulip]

So anyway, what if i replaced Sucrose with Jean in the second team, would that work?

[fleet knot]

you can release her charged shot a lot faster than the visual indicator suggests and still get the full bloom, i recommend experimenting with it

also instead of using the r-shot mode, just holding left click lets you do faster cancels

[fleet knot]

if the EM isnt a huge factor in the team, jean should just be better tbh

[silent tulip]

I mean there's shatter going on

other than that EM doesn't really matter there

[fleet knot]

what is your goal, content wise

[silent tulip]

Well, no idea

It'll probs just be an overworld team

[fleet knot]

i wouldnt really worry about em then

[silent tulip]

Hm

[rustic lily]

the abyss seems pretty easy this time too, thought it would be too tough but it's manageable

[calm gate]

Bruh idk what yall talking about but litterly my Aether Build Is Vere-

Idk Its a bad built

[fleet knot]

Anemo aether with vv is good

Relatively speaking

[gilded dock]

IF I read correctly, AMC E can swirl 3 times per hold, which isn't the worst, but eh
Sucrose offers more utility in almost all scenarios, and the other cases are covered by venti and kazuha

that's why sayu isn't doing well competitively, damage aside: she has no niche

[silk nest]

suggest who should i build pls for abyss etc

[urban plaza]

Id suggest levelling the level 1 chars to 20/40 (aka the first ascension too) and getting the acquaint fate fjdndmsm

[gilded dock]

@silk nest imo, grab raiden for eula if you can. Just complements her quite a bit. But diona works fine as a battery

Eula Diona Lisa Rosaria could be a potential comp

Sucrose Fischl Beidou Xingqiu

Raiden bennett xiangling xingqiu/kazuha

Tartagles fischl beidou healer

Xiao suffers from yiu not owning jean or two geo units

[silent tulip]

@silk nest Build xingqiu

[silk nest]

i will grab raidennnn IF IM NOT GONNA LOSE 50:50 / yehhh diona is great battery her er like 200% rn / staring at c1 keqing and qiqi

[silk nest]

tho if i lose 50:50 can i use fischl or beidou instead raiden?

for eula team

[gilded dock]

Alongside diona, yes

Also, ER only works for the unit that has the stat. So sac bow with HP HP HP seems the best for her

Unlike other units, diona's sets all see use in different scenarios, and she has even more than those.

So these aren't ranked by their strength per se

[silent tulip]

I mean...

Im not sure why the maiden ones are above instructor and exile

Noblesse is the highest because the game values damage a lot

Eosf and ToM combo is probs the second highest because you get good burst uptime + strong shields so...

Maiden ToM is practically Eosf ToM but worse

Maiden ... eeh...

Maiden Eosf is worse than full maiden, that makes sense

[silk nest]

why not healing bonus? for shield?

[silent tulip]

Though instructor and exile are better than all the maiden sets imo

[modern raven]

Cuz her Shield scales off hp

Hb does nothing for her shield

[silent tulip]

Shield HP, Shield E
Sac bow E

[gilded dock]

And she heals enough typically, and i run her on 4star instructor

[wise oak]

kaeya

[dusky igloo]

hey quick question, can i use blackcliff pole for raiden? my artifact set for her doesn't have a lot of cd so...

[modern raven]

No

Do you have wavebreakers fin?

Or the catch?

Or anything with er%?

[dusky igloo]

i have the catch

[modern raven]

Use that for her

[dusky igloo]

but I'm thinking of pulling engulfing

[modern raven]

Raiden needs er, not cd

[dusky igloo]

so should her sand be er or atk

[silk nest]

er

[modern raven]

Assuming you’re using 4 pc Emblem, er% sands

[dusky igloo]

how many er is good for her tho

[modern raven]

And I’ve seen 50/50 on goblets but I personally use an electro

250-280

[silk nest]

er for sub dps aka battery atk for main dps atk did more dmg

[dusky igloo]

oooh okay then

[modern raven]

Atk doesnt do more damage

[silk nest]

her er should be 200%+

[modern raven]

More er = more damage output from Raiden

Dps still needs an er sands

[dusky igloo]

i doesn't have er sand rn... my luck sucks

[silk nest]

atk actually does more dmg….

[modern raven]

Have you opened her kit

[dusky igloo]

so is 32 cr is good for her

[modern raven]

No

[dusky igloo]

i currently only have that much cr

[modern raven]

50+ is what you want. At least 160cd and over 200 er

[dusky igloo]

so cr helmet or cd helmet

[silk nest]

cr for now if you get more cr then cd

[modern raven]

Do it based on what you need atm. If you’re lacking cr, use cr, if your substats can fill in the missing cr then use cd

[silk nest]

higher cr crit often

[dusky igloo]

but i lacking those two

[modern raven]

Try cr for now then

[dusky igloo]

if i use cd helmet i will have abt 32/160+ and if i use cr helmet I'll get 60+/123

[modern raven]

60/123 for now

Its all farming from there

[ocean ember]

This depends. Without EL, attack sands is usually preferred (or ER sands and ATK goblet), as her preferred ER is around 200-250. With EL, yeah, you can stack more ER.

[dusky igloo]

oh okay then

[modern raven]

Im not one you should be saying this to bcuz I have an atk sands on her

[ocean ember]

I just replied to your comment of more ER = more damage, at it's not always true ajdjsj

[modern raven]

As for atk goblet idk

I’ve had varying results with the two

I personally prefer an electro but thats just me

[silk nest]

i think he mean er sand atk goblet

wait im confused now

[ocean ember]

Yeah, I think building Raiden can get complex, as teammates (mostly Sara, Bennett, Kazuha) and her weapon will change what main stats she prefer.

[modern raven]

Er sands and electro/atk goblet

[wise oak]

I LIKE UR PFP

[modern raven]

I LIKE YOURS TOO

[wise oak]

I LIKE YOU

[ocean ember]

It's usually either ER sands and ATK goblet or ATK sands and electro goblet

[modern raven]

Regardless it should be an er sands if you’re lacking el for a dps.

[modern raven]

You’re missing extra er with that second one

[ocean ember]

It's kinda the other way around iirc though

More ER is better on EL

[modern raven]

More er is better with emblem too

[ocean ember]

Without EL, you only usually want between 200-250 iirc

[ocean ember]

Yeah, but I thiiink you hit diminishing returns earlier so ATK sands or goblet is better ajsjaka

[modern raven]

You don’t want an atk sands anyway. More er with the sands is just better anyway

The goblet can be interchanged

[ocean ember]

I'd ask Balakin xD

[modern raven]

I have raiden

[ocean ember]

Iirc he also usually recommends either of the two pairs I mentioned earlier xD

[ocean ember]

I do too, and him too xD

[elder light]

Er sands is def better, plus you can save the attack sands for somebody else since grinding is a bitch

[modern raven]

I am aware. However Balakin is not the know all

[elder light]

bala is full of himself

[ocean ember]

I know that

[elder light]

id take what he says lightly

[ocean ember]

But he is mostly correct with Raiden afaik, plus iirc KQMs also have quite an extensive guide on Raiden

[modern raven]

Take it with a grain of salt. Its usually 50/50 with him

[ocean ember]

I actually think KQM's guide explains quite well the thing with the sands and the gobley

[modern raven]

Er sands is the most optimal -coming from someone who uses an atk. Electro and atk goblet can be interchanged

[ocean ember]

Iirc that is lmao

[ocean ember]

Well, on my own testing, ATK was better xD

[elder light]

attack sands is only better in nuke cases tbh, er is better for consistency

[fleet knot]

Kqm artifact quality standards are so awful

It's hard to trust

[ocean ember]

Not talking about the artefact quality standards

[modern raven]

And for mine, ER

[ocean ember]

I know you don't like them

[fleet knot]

Well the quality affects what main stats you want, ideally

[ocean ember]

But the explanation on the mainstats on sands and goblet was good iirc

[ocean ember]

This is why advice based on personal testing is usually not very good ajsjjdk

[fleet knot]

GO >

;)

[ocean ember]

We got different results based on our own artefacts

[modern raven]

Gn the majority of whales use an er sands

[ocean ember]

Indeed, because they have EL ajjska

[fleet knot]

Yeah because whales have high refine EL and don't need more damage

[ocean ember]

But I have catch

And I'd imagine the vast majority of players that aren't whales have catch too

[silk nest]

my bRoKeN f2p ass

[ocean ember]

Ultimately I agree, but we're talking about generalised advice though

[modern raven]

And you can use the catch and run an er sands

[fleet knot]

With EL refines, er timepiece becomes the preferred option full stop
But it's also just more utility, which a non-speedrunning whale will prefer over damage in most cases

[ocean ember]

You can, but assuming same quality substats, ATK is usually better, also assuming electro goblet

But yeah, for a battery Raiden, ER is obvs better

[modern raven]

You’re not leaving any room for the point that you can use both interchangeably

[fleet knot]

What?

[modern raven]

Electro and atk goblet are really only what you need

[ocean ember]

Because assuming same quality, it's not really the case

[modern raven]

With one on a backburner

[ocean ember]

But yeah, if you don't want a dedicated Raiden dps, ER sands is fine

[fleet knot]

Constant build swapping is a pain tbh

[modern raven]

Sara/Bennett exist to cover the lost atk anyway

You can get away with an electro goblet

[ocean ember]

But I agree. I really hope they introduce some system to save artefact combos in-game or something.

[dusky igloo]

I'm actually curious, how many er does raiden's ascension give?

[modern raven]

132%

[elder light]

why would u build raiden as main dps before her c2 anyways lol

[ocean ember]

Her C2 isn't necessary, it is better but she functions well enough without it ajajsjdh

[silk nest]

+32%

[modern raven]

^^ her base at lv 90

[ocean ember]

Though it's not like I'm running her on a meta team anyways, kinda a dual carry if you will

[modern raven]

Then why are you arguing

[ocean ember]

Because I don't think it's great to blindly advice "ER sands is always better" when it's not the case ajajsjs

I like researching how to build characters I like regardless of if I run them on meta teams

[modern raven]

Its not a blind say, you’re not even thinking about teammates she runs with to help with lost atk on a sands anyway

[ocean ember]

Well, recommending ER above all also assumes her teammates

[wise oak]

er

[modern raven]

Do you use Bennett?

[ocean ember]

And usually running really high ER without EL usually leans more into utility/support than full dps

Yeah, I do

[modern raven]

Then there’s your solution

Any lost atk with a sands can be made up with Bennett, and you can use an atk goblet anyway

On top of the 75% damage bonus from emblem (assuming you have enough ER)

[ocean ember]

Or you can also run ATK sands and electro goblet and get better results depending on the team/substats ajdjak

[silk nest]

we should stop arguing abt er or atk sand better

[ocean ember]

ER sands is not the ultimate solution, but I guess it's usually the easiest/best for utility functions too for most people

[modern raven]

[ocean ember]

Well, sorry if it looks like I'm arguing

Not my intention

[silk nest]

its depending on what teammate you use TOO

[ocean ember]

I just find this topic interesting

[modern raven]

^^ he just confirmed he uses Bennett

[ocean ember]

But yeah, also depending on the teammates (though even with Bennett an ATK sands in some cases could still be better than ER)

[modern raven]

Gn please stop trying to justify it. This is a c0 Raiden with a catch

[elder light]

this plus sara exists and if you happen to have kazuha/venti with freedom sworn or elegy u can get away with an electro goblet lol

[modern raven]

Assuming they roll god tier subs you still have a whole crit ratio to worry about on top of ER

[ocean ember]

Again, sorry if it looked like I'm arguing

I'm not lmao

[modern raven]

You are

[ocean ember]

I thought we've been discussing but I guess I was wrong

Sorry, I get excited with topics that interest me

[modern raven]

I’ve been explaining why an er sands for a C0 CATCH Raiden running as a main dps is better and you’ve just been ignoring half of what im saying

It feels more like you talking over me than a discussion

[silk nest]

er easier play as battery and more useful you can play more style with er sand and but atk sand does more dmg it based on WHAT TEAMMATE do you use and WHAT PLAYSTYLE do you want to play

well support ex kazuha bennett sara sucrose exist so

[ocean ember]

Not ignoring, you have a point with Bennett, but specifically ER sands with electro goblet is not ideal for the case of C0 Catch dps Raiden, because of how Catch and EL works. I just see too many people always recommending ER sands above everything when stacking ER is only better with EL due to how the weapon works.

[modern raven]

Regardless you’d need to have a sara/bennett on your team but that’s completely optional. Im not telling you how to play the game, but in my opinion and own tests, an atk sands has produced less output than an er

Also, you can use an atk goblet and not have an extra if atk is that big of an issue

Electro is completely optional because Raiden’s scalings are already high

[silk nest]

this is my opinion too im just telling my opinion

[ocean ember]

Agreed, I actually really like the topic of building Raiden (kinda similar to Hu Tao's case) because of their split scaling and how varying it can get depending on weapon, playstyle and comp.

I just personally don't like recommending ER above everything else when it varies a lot and say, someone may be doing more damage (if that's their goal) with an ATK sands (assuming Catch). Though ultimately it also depends a ton of the substats, so. x'D

[silk nest]

ikr also in the end dmg are around the same…..based on substat too

[elder light]

er is better for consistency personally and in most cases consistency > damage

its better to have 60 crit and 160 crt dmg than 5 crit rate and 300 crt dmg

same goes with raiden and er

[silk nest]

agree

[elder light]

you wanna keep her burst up as much as possible

since thats the main source of damage

its why el and the catch are so great for her

basically can regenerate your burst in one rotation

[ocean ember]

Agreed!

Though then again, teammates can solve the consistency issue if you happen to have one.

[silk nest]

if your team have another battery

[ocean ember]

Electro resonance is also pretty good

But anyways, I guess this aspect is one of the things I love about the game the most akakkd. How complex it can be to build certain characters, as it can get very situational.

Looking good I think! Personally though I don't know much about Shenhe, other than she wants as much attack as possible ajsjdj

[opaque heron]

And ER 😁 CR, CD is nice sometimes but not necessary

[ocean ember]

Looks like you got both ATK and ER covered, so niice

[opaque heron]

Her e gives some more attack, those stats are with no buffs activated

[opaque heron]

Tysm

[fleet knot]

ironically, having more options sorta leads to the unit being simpler to build, as it means many more things work just about as good as each other

it only makes the "optimal" build for any given account harder to determine

[silk nest]

very good for you if you build her support! but give her more cr cd if possible

[opaque heron]

She’s support for sure this is the best I got with my artifact luck lol. Attack is better on her and she does decent dmg imo

Now it’s time for me to commit the same amount of energy into my other characters since my initial builds on them are mediocre 😪

[ocean ember]

I guess this is the part that I find interesting ajdjakd. But yeah, you get more options so it's less strict, but finding what works best in a singular case or situation becomes imo more interesting.

[fleet knot]

ye

[modern raven]

how come people think ayato will work well with ayaka?

also, what comp do you think ayato will be in? electro-charged?

[inner ravine]

the short answer is freeze

[drowsy dock]

prob electro charged or freeze
i havent seen many leaks myself but i think ayato might be crowd control
so u get them all affected by hydro then use ayaka skill or burst

[modern raven]

but ayato seems to be main dps...

[drowsy dock]

u can main dps ayato and burst dps ayaka
and just use the freeze with her burst

[modern raven]

that could be fun

[inner ravine]

yeah ayaka's also usable as burst dps

[drowsy dock]

i mean hell u could run ayato, raiden and ayaka and cycle through electro charged and feeze just to be a bully to the AI

[modern raven]

we could also pair ayato with raiden for electro-charged

[inner ravine]

yeah ayato seems like he would go well with just about any sub dps

[drowsy dock]

yeah because reactions

[modern raven]

he certainly won't be in a vape team that's for sure

[inner ravine]

maybe with xiangling

[drowsy dock]

thats really it

[inner ravine]

are there even any other pyro sub dpses but xiangling

[drowsy dock]

xinyan?

[modern raven]

xinyan is pretty bad though isn't she

[inner ravine]

is she a sub dps? I was only aware of her shield

[drowsy dock]

i have no idea

ik nothing about her

i have her c6 but she's just chilling

[inner ravine]

same i have her at c6 but shes still lvl 20

[modern raven]

i'm wondering if ayato could work with fischl as an alternative to raiden

[inner ravine]

definitely

[drowsy dock]

i mean if u c6 her and build her right she could be usable
but she's like childe where so many other chars do her job but better

[inner ravine]

yeah I've seen some people who put serious dedication into xinyan though

as a physical dps I'd say she's almost comparable to razor, tbf ive never used both before

[drowsy dock]

there's people like that for every character
ive seen triple crowned ambers, kaeyas, noelles, xinyans

ive seen built lisa but not a triple crowned lisa

[inner ravine]

yeah ive seen triple crowns of every unpopular char but lisa lol

[drowsy dock]

i used razor for like a week when i started but then got keqing

[inner ravine]

I got my razor so late that he's still at level 20-

[modern raven]

is there any denying that eula is the best physical in the game so far

[inner ravine]

in terms of damage per second razor has a chance against her, but that burst... nah

[drowsy dock]

oh wait one thing ive never seen is a built aloy

[modern raven]

for some reason i got aloy to lv 60

but then i got ganyu a few months later

[drowsy dock]

i got her to lvl 20 for the ascension fate then didnt touch her

[inner ravine]

Yesterday I saw someone hit 92k with a lvl 1 aloy

[modern raven]

reverse melt burst i assume?

[inner ravine]

...I guess she wasn't built? technically?

[drowsy dock]

some people do too much tbh

[inner ravine]

i dont even remember but I believe it was melt with sucrose or something

[river ore]

@inner ravine has leveled up to LEVEL 2

[drowsy dock]

i have yet to build sucrose

but im building beidou rn then sara after

[inner ravine]

same

I'm just leveling the majority of my characters to 80/90 right now

[drowsy dock]

the only chars i want now are ayaka and yoimiya
so when they get announced I'll stop building them to focus on pre farming

[modern raven]

i want raiden and childe

[drowsy dock]

im only getting them to 80/80 since the final ascension doesnt matter to me unless im gonna actually consistently use them

[river ore]

@drowsy dock has leveled up to LEVEL 1

[inner ravine]

I don't have any specific goals rn I think I'm just gonna save til new characters come out

[modern raven]

are swirl teams a thing?

[inner ravine]

yeah?

[drowsy dock]

tbh i use my fates when i get them
i rarely save

[inner ravine]

same

I like to call it "building pity"

[drowsy dock]

if i didnt meme single pull i wouldnt have gotten zhongli, c1 yae or c1 shenhe

so worth imo

[modern raven]

except doesn't building pity equate to potentially wasting fates?

[inner ravine]

fair enough

[modern raven]

especially if you accidentally get a five-star

[inner ravine]

I wouldn't have gotten half of my characters if I didn't "build pity"

[drowsy dock]

ok well i meme pull my fates if im on a 50/50
because if i win i do 50/50 again and if i lose i get guaranteed
i only save if i have guaranteed

[drowsy dock]

thats the fun of it

gacha gamble

[inner ravine]

woulda missed out on zhongli, kokomi, yoimiya, Diluc and Qiqi

[drowsy dock]

after i get ayaka and yoimiya tbh i might just save up for sumeru archon

[inner ravine]

I literally cannot go anywhere without one of them on my team now

[drowsy dock]

i have the three archons might as well get them all

[modern raven]

who would you consider the best vv/em support currently? sucrose, kazuha or venti?

[drowsy dock]

kazuha

[modern raven]

also when was venti's last rerun?

[inner ravine]

I'd have to say kazuha too

[drowsy dock]

march of last year iirc

[modern raven]

i wasn't around then

[drowsy dock]

he gets reruns when windblume festival happens

[inner ravine]

it's a close battle tho venti's vacuum cleaner is wild

[drowsy dock]

i got him on his rerun

by a meme pull

didnt even want him

[modern raven]

i started playing around midway in eula's introduction

so june of last year

[drowsy dock]

i started back in october 2020
like a month after the game got released

[modern raven]

didn't get my first banner 5-star until last month

[inner ravine]

I was playing during zhongli's first banner I believe

the one before the one we just had with ganyu

[drowsy dock]

nice

611752174 is my uid if u want to add
and if u see it no im not a whale i swear

[inner ravine]

dw people think I'm a whale too

im about to be for miko though 💀

[drowsy dock]

when people see this they have every right to think so

i have jean diluc and venti and lvl 90 too

[modern raven]

how good is shenhe's particle generation?

[inner ravine]

mine's a little more uhh

[drowsy dock]

crazy good

[inner ravine]

conservative?

[drowsy dock]

[modern raven]

who are you responding to?

[drowsy dock]

i run ganyu with shenhe and i can get both of their bursts charged back up before their cd's end

[modern raven]

could shenhe work as a battery for ayaka?

[drowsy dock]

well i mean i have c1 so i have two charges of her skill

she works as a good cryo battery in general

eula, ganyu ayaka

any of them work

[modern raven]

what if constellations were toggleable?

[drowsy dock]

wdym?

[inner ravine]

I haven't used my shenhe yet but during the test runs and quests she had really good particle gen

[modern raven]

you could turn them on or off

[inner ravine]

C6 bennet wouldn't be considered an account destroyer then

[drowsy dock]

soooo what are u asking?
if she's good at c0? or c6?

[modern raven]

i suppose so

[drowsy dock]

c0 shenhe is still very good

u would just need to have more ER

200+ I'd say but not even
my shenhe has 182 ER and its overkill but i love it

[inner ravine]

ur shenhe is hot i may steal your build whenever I start building mine

I'll put my characters back on my profile

[inner ravine]

i sent a req by the way

[drowsy dock]

accepted

[inner ravine]

nice

[fleet knot]

currently, like as in just right now, kazuha has more use than venti
but i am an advocate of venti being the generally better unit

what he provides from the 3 units is the least replaceable

where kazuha and sucrose are genuinely interchangeable for many team comps, often sucrose being the easier one to use (kazuha has to do whacky double swirl comps to pass sucrose often times)

venti has the largest, longest, and most oppressive cc in the game, making him the single most dominant unit in his niche

and he has higher scalings than the others, along with genuinely good battery potential for all elements

[inner ravine]

pretty hard to beat a literal black hole

[drowsy dock]

venti is just fun in general thats why i like his playstyle

[inner ravine]

dude comes out to use one burst and is still somehow fun

[modern raven]

This is an L take Bal because unlike Venti, Kazuha can take me well

[fleet knot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85aUnWdKK88&ab_channel=EpicRiceXD

[modern raven]

Incorrect. Kazuha has twice the cheeks and twice the flexibility

[modern raven]

How do you think ayato will compare to childe?

[fleet knot]

in terms of just raw damage, i'd imagine childe still wins just from his less restricted quadratic scaling and likely better hydro application for the childe xiangling comp

but ayato is looking like he'll be able to fit in more teams

/ be more flexible overall

so i dont think theyre quite comparable 1:1, despite similarities

[gilded dock]

you should put either aether or two other units for pfp and banner
either go full insert-MC, or display 10 waifus

[gilded dock]

I assume Ayato vs Childe will become the new Kazuha vs Venti debate

[sullen oyster]

Is 21k normal for a lvl 83 ganyu with a bad lvl 50 weap?

[fleet knot]

level 50 weapon is not something that anyone will have a point of reference for

[gilded dock]

Get a decent weapon to level 90

[pine sinew]

Its fine

Wb talents?

[grim summit]

Should I use r5 oathsorn eye or r2 wdisith on yae

[fleet knot]

probably widsith

[sullen oyster]

Fav warbow

[sullen oyster]

Tal lvl 8

[fleet knot]

On ganyu?

Please do not

[ebon otter]

[fleet knot]

Also, my statement is true regardless of what the weapon is
Level 50 weapon means the numbers have no meaning, no point of reference

[sullen oyster]

I don't have any other bow

Im also trying to get hamayumi and its like 2 days of shells left

[shadow iris]

I don't know if it seriously works or not but someone posted to get the fortune slip from the shrine and pick the lucky object.. Don't switch the character until you open the chest and you will get the Hamayumi blueprint (if your luck is good probably?). I don't remember if I failed even once, so can't say it works, but worth a try

[oblique pelican]

21k? If You mean the initial hit+bloom, then yeah your artifacts are good

[oblique pelican]

It's time gated anyways!

[shadow iris]

Oh, is that so? Alright!

[oblique pelican]

And the chests only give vegetables

[silent ether]

Quick Question: What's a good team that pairs with a C1 Noelle and a C0 YunJin?

I used Bennett and Xiangling but I don't seem to be outputting a good enough damage on and off of Noelle's burst.

[oblique pelican]

Non-C6 Noelle does damage? Interesting 🤔

[pine sinew]

She does

Not pog

If u crown itll give like 8-9k ig

[visual osprey]

zhongli and gorou both can fit well into any geo team

but aside from that i dont think theres a char that would hav extra synergies

any other element off field dps with a geo onfield would underperform from not being able to use reactions as well

so aside from raw unamplified numbers they arnt contributing much

[fleet knot]

ok ill run ningguang gorou zhongli geo mc

[visual osprey]

thats a decent comp ya

[fleet knot]

gorou very helpful

[visual osprey]

guessing geo mc is only battery?

[fleet knot]

15% damage bonus totally more valuable than a diff character

[visual osprey]

my point is most other chars can perform way better in another team than one with a geo core

[modern raven]

Not Albedo????

LLLLLLLLL

[fleet knot]

albedo benefits from gorou

i was just making a team of non-defense scaling geo units

[modern raven]

How are you gonna do that and then add Gorou

[fleet knot]

because godlander said gorou fits well into any geo team

[modern raven]

Depending on your con yes, but mostly gorou needs at least double geo and c4

And also you COULD build him with defense but its not worth it at all. Ningguang easily gets outdamage (assuming she’s your main damage dealer) by both Itto and even Noelle

[clear merlin]

Hi, can you test my first game? :)
https://gitxhub.com/ee/game/raw/main/SkyBlade/
password: test

[fleet knot]

<@&874036938351448094>

[tight stratus]

Im running national for spiral abyss 11-2 first half but i keep getting frozen by the specters and idk what to do bc i always end up running too low on time. Suggestions? Im running 4 pc crimson bennett, 2 pc crimson 2pc noblesse xiangling, 4 pc emblem xingqiu, and 2 pc blizzard 2 pc glad chongyun. I even put noblesse on bennett and not much changed. I dont have raiden either

The second half team clears pretty well but im not sure what to do for the first half. My onmy other 5* are hu tao and childe, i tried running hu tao in the first half with xingqiu, zhongli, and i believe kaeya but it didnt work well

[fleet knot]

well sounds like you've got a lot of set bonus issues

xiangling set bonus is definitely more important than xingqiu's

and bennett on 4cw isnt really great unless you want him doing damage

[tight stratus]

I do

Hes a burst dps/spammer. He also does 3k healing per tick at level 8 ult and his attack boost im not 100% sure on bc im honestly not sure how to calculate it

[fleet knot]

his attack boost is whatever the skill% is of his base attack

the white number on the stat page

[tight stratus]

Yeah im aware

Oh wajt the white number 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ i had a dumb person moment

[spice walrus]

my noelle did 12k not crowned without buff

[elder light]

alright you meta people before i make a mistake pls enlighten me, which is better for eula r2 skyward pride or snow-tombed claymore with refinements

Somebody asked me this and im stumped

[grand kestrel]

Fish sword.

(not serious)

[fleet knot]

definitely skyward

skyward r1 can be her BiS even over other 5* options

[modern raven]

other than a superconduct enabler, which characters should a physical dps like eula, razor or keqing be grouped with?

i know for sure that you shouldn't use chongyun as the enabler

[bleak river]

Lisa works for def shred if you want it

[fleet knot]

after sc enabler, the rest of the team is pretty open

battery and healer

• additional support or sub dps

[quasi abyss]

who should i build for abyss???