Precision Target Strike Update

[barren sentinel]

Is it logical that jet fighters and bombers drop high explosives weapons below 100m at high speed between dangerous obstacles ? I don't think so. That's why I decided to make this suggestion about changing the mechanic of precision target strike.

Don't mind the second image I forgot to save it

[solar lotus]

Dumb bombs

Their called dumb bombs

The unguided

[barren sentinel]

if the game is supposed to be realistic then why do we drop bombs below 100m ? (That's from another suggestion)

[solar lotus]

But they have to remodel EVERY bomb

[barren sentinel]

I didn't know

sorry

[solar lotus]

It's okay

[barren sentinel]

I couldn't call it better for people to understand

[void birch]

the low alt drop is prob for things like infiltrating undercover maybe

like the nuclear missions for the b1, A4s, etc in the cold war

[barren sentinel]

https://discord.com/channels/820044095535185951/1274444987412643860

[void birch]

yep

[thick juniper]

correct

[vernal wing]

in general make military aircraft better

i do not know why they keep getting added in numbers when they’re like all useless

bombers need capacity to reflect the bomb bay, strike aircraft and bombers should have way better performing and paying strike missions, etc

[weary haven]

only bombs that would realistically be deployed below 100m are MK82 AIR or snake eyes

[barren sentinel]

is MK82 AIR ingame ?

even as cosmetic

[weary haven]

probably not lol

not even sure if the snake eyes are in

[barren sentinel]

[void birch]

me leaning out the cockpit to chuck a grenade at you at 1700 knots

[weary haven]

just the regular mk82's afaik

[visual ether]

Honestly just make a generic bomb model if that’s a concern. A good way to make both Dumb and guided is the make the guided one a converted dumb bomb like this

[vernal wing]

having generic bomb models is a good thing anyway
there should not be a separate mesh for every single bomb on every single plane that has them

it should be a repository where the model is pulled

[void birch]

i mean the bombs you actually drop in the pts are a generic model for all planes i remember

the ones on the pylons are all cosmetic

[vernal wing]

would also allow the textureless bombs to look better too

[slow pilot]

there already is a generic bomb model what

[vernal wing]

er

for aircraft or for the target strike specifically

[mortal thistle]

not possible
There was a previous thread about this
Would have to recode physics engine

[final kindle]

pts

[barren sentinel]

bruh

[mortal thistle]

Plus isn’t the entire point of PTS to be a fun challenge

[barren sentinel]

It would be better to have a more different challenge from risking to crash a plane

if you want it to be challenging

[mortal thistle]

Then try Tarquay

[solar lotus]

Make 2 of 1 (dumb bomb and gbu)

[vernal wing]

oh ok
yea that's fine for that as long as it's not the classic roblox spherical chrome bomb

i still think there should be a depository of bomb meshes (GBU Paveway IIIs, GBU Paveway IIs, AIM-9s, etc etc) that is pulled to be put on certain aircraft instead of having the modeler of each aircraft model it indevidually

makes better performance, better quality constant, and prevents bombs/missiles from being a mix of solid white, colored, or textured

[dim onyx]

um

you don't need to

it can be a black simple cylinder

besides, it will be just a blur when you drop it anyways

[slow pilot]

the bomb

also doing this would make pts too easy so like no thanks

[vernal wing]

but do something to make fighters worth flying

same with bombers

[slow pilot]

bomb stuff

[vernal wing]

https://discord.com/channels/820044095535185951/1283203372903563264

[slow pilot]

pretty hard to put cargo into bomb bays

[vernal wing]

why are you so adamant that planes be useless

[sweet robin]

What about ACFT with nukes?

[vernal wing]

it seems counter-intuitive to go through the effort of modeling a bomber and then adding it to the game just for maybe 3 people total to ever fly it because it serves no purpose ingame

[sweet robin]

There's a handful of bombers

They have like no use besides maybe at norman

If they're lucky

But only being able to to strike jobs at Norman seems like a bad move, you really should be able to pick them up from anywhere

Or at minimum just millitary bases

[vernal wing]

yeah idk

it seems counterproductive for a game developer to add features people won't use

like i would want people to come fly certain planes more

[thick juniper]

there’s only 2 reasons people fly military planes irl

for combat (obviously denied)

And just for the experience

which is provided in game

They aren’t money makers in real life

They aren’t supposed to be money makers

They aren’t going to be money makers in game

[dim onyx]

wp aren't really money

same goes for UP and BP

they're just points

so maybe have military jobs that will only give wp only then

[vernal wing]

barely
like literally bare minimum

also i thought the game was an economy game

both of those combined makes me wonder why fighters and bombers are being added in the first place

shouldn't those be kept in neo warfare?

again i do not think it is unreasonable from a game developer perspective to want to have planes actually be used in the game

you are shooting yourself in the foot as a game developer by adding things to said game with no practical use

i legit don't think i've seen a single bomber for like a month now
i want to see them more but nobody has a reason to use them soooo that's just not gonna happen i guess

also aero isn't irl, nor is it realistic, and it never will be

[slow pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/yap-gif-7029251861536001144

all i said was that cargo is pretty hard to fit into bomb bays

[barren sentinel]

Isn't it like as difficult as the cargo drop missions ?

[dim onyx]

personal opinion, I dislike pvp being added to a game mostly focused in civil jobs and economy for one main reason

Toxicity, it always exist often in pvp games and it ain't fun

[dim onyx]

nope

[wise lynx]

activate windows

[dim onyx]

and would it be better if it had obstacles before the target? Giving a small window to drop the bombs with physics?

if it's not enough, speed requirement increase

High risk, High Reward

[barren sentinel]

I'll just buy 11 at this point

[barren sentinel]

You want to make it harder when at the last moment you need to fly away from a high terrain ?

And avoid a bridge or whatever is it ?

[slow pilot]

so basically how it is rn

[barren sentinel]

I don't think bombers can avoid such obstacles. Only the terrain ones that are now.

[dim onyx]

Not much obstacle to avoid before dropping the bomb at norman

[dim onyx]

Oh Im quite aware of that, how less maneuverable and big they are

this type of pts is for small ground attack aircrafts

[barren sentinel]

Oh ok

No problem with this then

[dim onyx]

other one of pts I had in mind is the high altitude bombing

less risk, less reward

[barren sentinel]

Almost no reward at all

Just for bombing

[dim onyx]

it is already existing/planned in trello I think

[dim onyx]

so... cargo drop shouldn't have bigger rewards? or should have small rewards?

it's just same as dropping something out of the aircraft

[barren sentinel]

Make it almost no reward*

[mortal thistle]

But you can transport the bombs as cargo

A simple capacity buff to bombers to reflect their payload capacity would be epic
(Not for fighters because they would just be de-facto SSTs)

[barren sentinel]

Buff to bomber capacity + way more PTS locations + Rework of PTS would be epic.

[coarse leaf]

Dank | Shrugbot Suggester 🐊 is AFK: whoever pinged me, you stink - 2 minutes ago

[barren sentinel]

[vernal wing]

literally this idk what's so difficult about it

[dim onyx]

the Aeronautica's NeoWarfareX spaghetti code

[vernal wing]

the first one does not apply and could be done in like 10 minutes tops

the second two can be done, the programmers for this game have clearly demonstrated they have the proficiency

[barren sentinel]

The problem hyperant mentioned is that it's too easy

[barren sentinel]

If you're planning to keep pts complicated, at least make more of these missions with various obstacles. One mission in the entire game ? This looks like some unfinished work.

[barren sentinel]

And please make it at least above 200m

[night thicket]

Constant quality yes, better performance no, look at Neo and you’d get what I mean

[mortal thistle]

Tarquay.

[mortal thistle]

They would have to make bombs function based on gravity and aircraft velocity which would be extremely complicated for little reason

[tawdry sleet]

i guess it's supposed to be training for missions below radar ?

[tawdry sleet]

literally just draw a line

it's high school physics

[mortal thistle]

And also the pitch and steering angle of the aircraft

[tawdry sleet]

if only there was conveniently accessible data to calculate the speed and angle of that vector

-# oh wait there is

[mortal thistle]

Regardless it was suggested before iirc and denied for being too complicated for little benefit

[tawdry sleet]

over 1/5 aircraft in the game have PTS

this doesn't seem too little to me

but idk

[mortal thistle]

It’s a niche job that nobody grinds... ironically because it’s too difficult.. and most of the suggestions here make it more difficult if anything

[tawdry sleet]

also the model doesn't have to account for drag, wind, etc.
even just adding aircraft speed and angle would make it 100x better

[tawdry sleet]

... what if people don't grind for it because of its current state ?

[mortal thistle]

Because it’s too challenging

Usually you start a turn to pull out of the canyon before bombing, especially in large planes, but if you initiate the turn too early with updated physics you would be off target when starting that turn

[tawdry sleet]

PTS doesn't really feel like bombing

[tawdry sleet]

you aim, drop the bomb(s), and then start turning

that fact doesn't change

[mortal thistle]

Initiate at the proper time and you would crash into the bridge

[tawdry sleet]

are you talking about current one

or proposed update

[mortal thistle]

rusty bridge

Large planes are already tricky to navigate through

The TU-160 is nearly impossible as-is lmfao

Because collisions don’t change with swept wing

[tawdry sleet]

ballistic physics would make it easier actually

since you can just drop from far away and start pulling up early

while the bomb follows its course

[mortal thistle]

That’s merely a second or two
The problem is you can’t initiate the turn early or you will be off course

In current system it’s easy to bomb while turning

I just don’t rlly see the benefit of completely reworking the physics to make it more challenging in some aspects when people already dislike the mission because it’s challenging

but if a dev thinks it’s easy then

[tawdry sleet]

it wouldn't be more challenging because the bomb reticle is still there
in fact it'd probably be easier - bombs would have to be dropped ahead of the target, and the bomber could start pulling up before flying right over the target

the benefit would be looking, and feeling, a lot cooler

[mortal thistle]

if you are turning while dropping the bomb then the crosshair would be off your aircraft’s trajectory

[tawdry sleet]

i don't have it on my PC rn, but later today i'll check my hard drive and get the formulas

[tawdry sleet]

the crosshair would update

sorta like NWX i guess

[mortal thistle]

The plane turns
The bomb goes straight

uh

Shit

[tawdry sleet]

obviously if you do a barrel roll while dropping bombs it's not gonna work

[mortal thistle]

can’t type

[tawdry sleet]

[mortal thistle]

Wtv I don’t do the job anyways (for the earlier mentioned reasons)

(Devs please fix TU160 hitbox)

[balmy mesa]

this game is only realistic when its convenient for the devs (i dont blame them for this since theyre unpaid volunteers)

[tawdry sleet]

[balmy mesa]

also i dont think thats what life meant by realistically

in that screenshot

[mortal thistle]

[balmy mesa]

i think the complaints would be justified if they were paid but they arent

[tawdry sleet]

i'll try to make a model for ballistic trajectory later

@thick juniper out of curiosity
how do you guys measure aircraft speed and accel in the code

m/s

stud/s

kiloeagles per KFC truck cubed ?

[thick juniper]

this one

[tawdry sleet]

m/s it is

[tawdry sleet]

imma assume gravity to be 9.81 m/s², or 1.308 stud/s²

[thick juniper]

why tf would I know

[barren sentinel]

you're a dev

shouldn't you know that ?

[tawdry sleet]

idk if aero's flight model uses gravity

tbh i don't think it does

[thick juniper]

Not a coder

[barren sentinel]

ok

mb then

[mortal thistle]

Gravity is definitely a factor but planes likely don’t actually generate lift

[tawdry sleet]

[balmy mesa]

probably sometimes

the autorotationless helis in question

[tawdry sleet]

the stall model is pretty close to a ballistic trajectory

[tawdry sleet]

wait

that's a genius idea

could use the helicopters to measure gravity

[balmy mesa]

planes with psm after shooting through service ceiling

[tawdry sleet]

[barren sentinel]

how did we get from pts change to measuring gravity ?

[tawdry sleet]

tl;dr imma try to make a physics model for bombs

[balmy mesa]

you gotta measure gravity to calculate how the bomb drops

[tawdry sleet]

that's not too complicated

[barren sentinel]

good luck

[tawdry sleet]

and if the stars align one of the 3 coding devs might see my code and adapt it to aero's

[barren sentinel]

he's prolly gonna see how trash it is and wonder if he can make a better one

[balmy mesa]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1287370500632350740/1297635140893147246/1020.mov?ex=67d919a6&is=67d7c826&hm=b9d9ed903b7c5a5b82bb344bec7d723dcd089f08744100ca4250d9831a2e6c41&

[tawdry sleet]

is it clair de lune

[balmy mesa]

its some airport hangar ost from ingame

[gusty forge]

Yes pls

The current pts physic is suck

[tawdry sleet]

oh alr

i don't have sound rn

[balmy mesa]

clair de lune would be really funny though

[tawdry sleet]

should i try adding in drag ? or is that too much

rn the bombs are assumed spherical and frictionless

(they've been like that for years )

soooo drag calculations are kinda hard
imma kindly ask another dev if/how they did for that part

but i feel like this still would be much better than current bomb physics

[barren sentinel]

I'm too dumb to understand all of this

I'll just leave you research everything you want

[tawdry sleet]

imma put a google sheets link

[mortal thistle]

Too much likely

It also has to convert the line into a crosshair

And on top of that, the current crosshair is at sea level

[dim nest]

wait you can graph in sheets/excel?

[mortal thistle]

It doesn’t match terrain

This means that even if the crosshair appears on target you could still miss

[barren sentinel]

bruh

[balmy mesa]

lets not do drag lol

[tawdry sleet]

the impact point is the intersect between the trajectory and terrain

or trajectory and sea level if you wanna keep it to sea level

you could make an invisible line with that graph, and make the crosshair the first intercept with terrain

then, when the bomb is dropped, that line stops updating with the aircraft

and the bomb just moves alongside the line

also if the devs feel like it, they could change gravity to simulate drag (glide bomb = lower gravity, old style bomb = higher gravity)

[mortal thistle]

The trajectory isn’t a straight line

It’s curved

[tawdry sleet]

and ...?

[mortal thistle]

Unless the crosshair gets changed (You would have to run a raycast every frame of gameplay which takes up a good bit of memory and may cause lag iirc) the crosshair would be inaccurate

[tawdry sleet]

"check if the thing touches the ground" works whether the thing in question is a bomb, a straight line or a bell curve

[tawdry sleet]

the tech is there
it works
it works fairly well in NWX

[mortal thistle]

Yes but it touches in different spots
A bell curve would not have accurate targeting unless the crosshair is actually on top of the target

[tawdry sleet]

if tracing (not even rendering) a line, that follows a basic quadratic quation, around 10x a second, lags the game enough to be noticeable, idk what else to say

the game renders aircraft movement, terrain in a radius of several dozen kilometers, for up to 60 players at a time

if ax²+bx+c would lag the game beyond reason, we might as well tell the devs to stop whatever they're doing with sydney immediately

cause that is gonna put a load on the game

[mortal thistle]

The only way to find out is to try it, to be fair

It’s quite surprising what can lag Roblox

Simply forgetting to put a debounce in a collision function can lead to crashes

[tawdry sleet]

With that said :

a ballistics sheet for Aero

• The first batch of constants is the aircraft's parameters ; feel free to make a copy and toy with those

• The second batch of constants is the gravity force ; you can toy with it, but it may modify the model in unrealistic or unpredictable ways

• The third batch of lines is the conversion from degrees to radians ; you probably shouldn't touch it unless you are fluent in radian angles

• The leftmost graph Y(t) represents the altitude of the bomb as a function of time

• The top graph N(t) represents the North-South coordinates (in meters) as a function of time (positive is north, negative is south)

• The bottom graph E(t) represents the East-West coordinates (in meters) as a function of time (positive is east, negative is west)

[balmy mesa]

this is peak tbh

[slow pilot]

[balmy mesa]

lmao

[mortal thistle]

Insane

epic job

[fleet breach]

Need

[mortal thistle]

Can’t wait to dodge obstacles at Mach 2

(Impossible)

[dim onyx]

More risk, more rewards

besides, people rarely does the race jobs at norman, pembroke, and clarence

rewards is gonna encourage them to get that reward

[mortal thistle]

There isn’t risk it’s straight up impossible

[mortal thistle]

Because the small races are only even possible to complete in a tiny stunt plane

It gets extremely repetitive really quick

only really beneficial for new players given they have the skills

PTS is already a massive challenge as-is, and damn near nobody does it at all

[dim onyx]

Been in aero so long that I know that the pts meta died after a nerf happened

eventually causing the pts cult group to disappear

plus that was an illustration, meaning the speed requirement and distance of the obstacles are not fixed to anything

it used to give 15k wp (If all hits are near misses) per 9-10 min run

in f-15

[mortal thistle]

F-15 only has 2 bomb payload so unless they nerfed the payload too you’re prob thinking of XB-70

It’s already challenging to even near miss in XB-70 or larger aircraft without crashing into the bridge (the only obstacle)

I played back then too

[barren sentinel]

This suggestion won't be accepted because the way I showed pts is too easy

[dim onyx]

.

@mortal thistle

[mortal thistle]

Tarquay

it’s already a huge challenge

[dim onyx]

not for me

[mortal thistle]

have you tried using a Nighthawk for example

[dim onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/ez-noob-skill-issue-simply-a-difference-in-skill-gif-20780203

[mortal thistle]

Something that isn’t just a lumbering behemoth

or a small slow bomber

[mortal thistle]

What makes it insanely difficult is this stated above

[dim onyx]

I wanted pts to be updated, I wanted it to be more challenging

[mortal thistle]

The terrain is elevated

The crosshair isn’t even accurate

We just need more locations tbh

with unique layouts and challenges

Not rlly a whole system revamp

[dim onyx]

you just dunno how to aim

[mortal thistle]

...I’ve been doing PTS for 3 years

Tarquay is actually just dumb

Bomb crosshair is like 60 feet under the terrain

[dim onyx]

so does the bomb target

if you dunno

[tawdry sleet]

@mortal thistle see this expert drawing i made

[dim onyx]

that's why hyperant dislikes the bomb with physics for pts, there's should be an obstacle before the target

[tawdry sleet]

• the parabola (red dotted line) is centered on the aircraft to make a bomb trajectory
• the parabola updates every ~0.1 seconds (faster than the general human reaction span, no need to do any more than that)
• the crosshair (gray) is placed at the first intersect between the parabola and the terrain
• when the bomb is dropped, this (invisible in-game) parabola becomes fixed, and the bomb moves alongside it until it collides with terrain (and explodes)
• the aircraft does not have to wait until being right on top of the target to pull out, and has more time to react ; PTS is made easier, not harder

[tawdry sleet]

personally i'd rather have a more realistic and cooler-looking PTS

even if it is nerfed in terms of WP/hr

also aiming ahead of your aircraft going Mach 2 at 80 m would definitely not be easy

[dim onyx]

ofc not lol

[mortal thistle]

The problem is at norman you’re going so fast that there isn’t enough time to pull up

You have no choice but to thread the needle between the bridge in a huge ass bomber

(Fighters can pull up)

[dim onyx]

it's easy lol

[mortal thistle]

not in XB70 TU160 B1 etc

[dim onyx]

I didn't even need to turn left or right

[mortal thistle]

Especially when the collision box for swing wing planes doesn’t change when you retract the wings

[dim onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/okami-amaterasu-skill-dog-marvel-gif-2082889928330414786

[mortal thistle]

Again I’ve practiced since 2022

It’s an insane challenge in supersonic bombers

[dim onyx]

that's why it's fun

[mortal thistle]

Making it a bigger challenge would render it impossible

[dim onyx]

my illustration was specifically for the small fighters

[mortal thistle]

that’s what Tarquay is designed for

[dim onyx]

Big bombers should have their own different kind of pts

like why the hecc are they diving that low for a high altitude bomber

[mortal thistle]

Tarquay PTS rewards taper off after a certain speed, influencing supersonic planes to fly much much slower (although it also pays less despite being even more difficult which is pretty stupid)

[dim onyx]

a simple google search about what "Tarquay" is, didn't help

[mortal thistle]

This is true tho

[mortal thistle]

It’s an airport in the game

It has a PTS location

[dim onyx]

oh that, I did saw and Im excited for it

Im predicting that they are likely to have a reworked pts, if they don't have the pts job there yet

[mortal thistle]

It’s there already

it’s pretty annoying to do unfortunately

[dim onyx]

ah, why is it not in the update logs

unless I missed it

[mortal thistle]

Na it’s not

• the drop zone is one big turn shrouded and trees with cliff faces and a bridge overlooking
• the drop zone is much narrower than Norman
• the drop zone is elevated, causing the bomb crosshair (placed at sea level) to be dead useless

[dim onyx]

someone did made a suggestion regarding the crosshair

no reposts yet tho

[dim onyx]

and HELL YEAH

[mortal thistle]

IMO that’s biggest issue

[dim onyx]

last time it was suggested was like... a year or two ago?

idk

[mortal thistle]

Deserving a repost

[barren sentinel]

Making the crosshair based on the terrain and thinner would do it ?

[dim onyx]

https://tenor.com/view/tesla-and-einstein-luma-ai-gif-14475294631445060178

Wow we never thought of that

[barren sentinel]

genius idea isn't it

[slow pilot]

my honest reaction (at 1200 kn)

[barren sentinel]

Is it easy in Neo warfare ?

[mortal thistle]

If this gets implemented we should probably get similar mechanics for supply drop

[tawdry sleet]

[barren sentinel]

Isn't supply drop good as it is now ?

[tawdry sleet]

maybe i'm genuinely stupid but

[mortal thistle]

Specifically in supersonic bombers you have to thread the needle between the gap in the bridge

[tawdry sleet]

can you explain to me in what way allowing bombers to drop their bombs early would make it harder ...?

[mortal thistle]

Already stated the reasoning
You couldn’t initiate a turn earlier because the bomb would continue on straight and likely miss the target

it’s kinda like trying to throw a strike at a batter from a standstill versus the same from a platform moving side to side

[tawdry sleet]

but if it continues on straight, you can aim it such that it'll land on the target

[mortal thistle]

yes but that’s more challenging

Because your aircraft would be facing a different direction from the way the bomb is going to travel

[tawdry sleet]

i guess
you trade harder aiming for virtually non-existent crash risk

[mortal thistle]

there’s still crash risk

But I guess the only way to truly gauge how this would effect gameplay is to get it implimented

[tawdry sleet]

as hyperant pointed out, it'd be similar to NWX basically

idk if you played it before

[mortal thistle]

nope

But I saw his image above

if that is at 1200 knots then yeah no crash risk

[tawdry sleet]

once the bomb drops, nothing your aircraft does can change its course

so unless you are trying to drop all your bombs in one run, you can 100% pull out with a very safe margin

[mortal thistle]

yeah

[vernal wing]

can we also just like

get more open space pts

the only two locations are located in a tiny-ass valley where you can only efficiently drop a bomb with a really small and agile bomber (which like only 3 exist) once every few minutes

why are the little circles with trucks on them near the mach loop not a carpet bomb target for the b2 at high/mid altitudes

also why does the target strike ask for absolute 100% precision

its a fucking bomb its gonna blow everything up in AT MINIMUM a hundred meters

i just feel like the entire concept of a precision target strike, as it is currently ingame, is poorly implemented

[barren sentinel]

It's either realistic and easy or unrealistic and challenging

In our case it's the second one

[vernal wing]

if it's too easy then just make it not pay as well

surveilance is also easy but i see absolutely nobody complaining about that

i would rather it be too easy and pay unwell but be fun than be too hard and pay like shit anyway and not be fun at all

as would most other players in this game i'm sure

pts already kinda pays like shit anyway so i don't see why making it not-impossible would be a bad thing

[barren sentinel]

[night thicket]

i would rather have both

if you having skill issue, sure, drop a bomb in the flat field for 100wp per hit idm, but if i want to put some effort and get 1.5-3k per near miss i'd liek to have that option as well

but oh well doesn't seem like anyone who can do stuff wants to spend time on more mil jobs

[dim onyx]

also there's some players who'd liked the pts to be difficult

[night thicket]

Tarquay

i wonder if any person even knew that there's more than 1 pts spot now

[dim onyx]

yeah ik, I'll try that job once Im available

[vernal wing]

pts being difficult is fine but like

please try using the b2 spirit and hitting a direct hit within the required criteria with all 6 bombs at the pts location near the mach loop

that’s more than difficult, that’s just tedious

that’s also not what that bomber is for

actually there are virtually zero bombers that do that

that’s what strike aircraft are for
and why they have missiles that just go to the location

so literally what somerandom said :p i didn’t scroll up

[dim onyx]

You mean this?

[vernal wing]

yea

long story short the way bombing/strike missions work in this game A. goes against the whole realism thing the devs are now trying to push, and B. cannot be implemented properly if they are too hardline focused on the economy aspect

even if pts paid a decent amount, i guarantee you surveillance would still make more somehow

by default not making it op

if they do it realistically, it will be easy
if they implement it correctly, it will be fun

[dim onyx]

yeh >_>, they prolly should have the same pay as supply drop

[vernal wing]

more if i’m honest

[night thicket]

that is the problem

[vernal wing]

military vehicles, especially the big modern stealth bombers, are fucking expensive

[night thicket]

but i was always thinking pts was done this way to be "hard job big pay"

tho theres no way to chill if you dont wanna sweat each time you wanna bobm smth

[vernal wing]

them paying 20-40k per mission would still be balanced believe it or not because most bombers are gonna be too slow to do the jobs within 20 minutes in most circumstances

[night thicket]

honestly, i'm not even sure anymore what we are trying to push as a solid mechanism 🫠

[night thicket]

imo whole requirements for PTS should be reworked

not the current ones, more regular ones

like high alt or in plain fields

cuz "mo speed mo mone" isn't working

making slow bombers just useless

[vernal wing]

pts with missiles could work if they are unguided missiles
still a challenge to aim them properly, but still more sensible than what’s ingame now

and then bombers like the b2 spirit should get their own version of the high altitude supply drop

[night thicket]

Missiles dunno, a lot of devs still not fans of that

[vernal wing]

womp womp

[night thicket]

Yeah, tough

But tldr yeah bomber can literally have high supply drop with box being reskinned into bobm and that’s it (at least for starters)

[vernal wing]

i still think if the devs want to stay away from adding any kind of working weapons, they need to stop fucking adding military aircraft

it literally does not make sense

[dim onyx]

maybe a target practice drones that US used for anti-air could be used for that

[night thicket]

The missiles itself is the problem

[dim onyx]

or ballon popping

[dim onyx]

ohhh

[night thicket]

Devs are expressing a concern about them being used to annoy peaceful players

Which is fair but there’s always a work around for that

[vernal wing]

you can already do so by repeatedly crashing into them which i have personally experienced multiple times

[night thicket]

Like adding a setting where people can turn off this for their view etc (I hope it’s possible tho)

[vernal wing]

so i’d say that point is invalid

[night thicket]

Not as you can crash into someone mid air

[vernal wing]

also they can just… not work when not near the target location

[dim onyx]

I thought it was just there to fly for fun with zero purpose except rps and stuff

[night thicket]

Exactly my point

Iirc PTS already like that

You can’t drop bombs anywhere not on Norman

It’s just not visible

[vernal wing]

the problem is they’re kinda like not very fun
you cannot do anything with them

[night thicket]

Neither bomb or explosion from it

[vernal wing]

some specific ones like the ACTIVE have special features but that’s literally it

[dim onyx]

cuz back in old aero, they were 100% useless, no jobs for them

[vernal wing]

i use them to crate hunt because it gives them a use

[night thicket]

I mean, in peaceful time not like fighters are using their armaments

[dim onyx]

now, airshow, surveillance and pts now exists for them

[night thicket]

Well, while still little to no use I’m sure quite the amount of people here love to just fly them

[vernal wing]

air show pays like shit, surveillance only works on like 4 of them, and pts is both too hard and pays like shit

[night thicket]

Races:

[vernal wing]

there’s like 4 races that actually work decently

have you tried the great harden race

[night thicket]

Also wouldn’t say it pays like shit because in 1/4 of the time you can earn as much as from single recon

Which takes 30 mins

[vernal wing]

i have, it’s quite literally not possible in most racing aircraft

[night thicket]

I’m flying fjord run ever since it was added

10k in less that a 2 mins is good trade

[vernal wing]

but i also don’t want to fly the same race 29 times in a row

at least a bombing mission will take me different places

[dim onyx]

and you said its enjoyable because its an easy pts with low pay

[dim onyx]

[night thicket]

That is also fair and why more airports should have those races but we digress from suggestion

[vernal wing]

anyway yes

give fighters strike missions or surveillance
give bombers bombing/carpet bombing runs
give bombers more cargo capacity

military vehicles will then be finally good for once

it’s not hard, it’s not unbalanced, and it makes the game a lot more fun

i literally do not see how this wouldn’t be a win-win scenario

[void birch]

dive bombing missions

maritime strike (moving target?)

[dim onyx]

Job reward is uncertain as it could become the new meta

(Pre-nerf pts got shitted on by some ppl)

[vernal wing]

strike can pay less if it ends up being easy, which it kinda could

3-5k wp per mission is reasonable

[dim onyx]

it's popularity eventually died because less players played the job after the nerf

[vernal wing]

with high altitude bombing, 10-70k is reasonable, depending on the distance

like cross map bombing run should pay a good amount

[night thicket]

hate to quote you on that one, but "devs gotta do stuff" to make it happen, and no one from who can do it actually interested in it

i was pitching feasible interception jobs which is not PvE or PvP

never got anywhere

[vernal wing]

the amount of times i have practically begged for contractor apps to open:

can, would, and will do this kind of stuff along with the many other things i’d like to dooooooo

[night thicket]

contractors for coding is much more complex

for various reasons Hyper not big fan of those

[fleet breach]

would this one fr

[vernal wing]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[night thicket]

tldr kinda like new delivery jobs, random plane spawns in and you can intercept it by being near it in the area, the longer you follow it the bigger payment

[vernal wing]

still capable of doing like multiple other things that i have suggested
rotating beacons, fixing broken strobe lights, sound work, etc

[fleet breach]

That would be pretty cool

More active gameplay

which I’m always a huge fan of

[dim onyx]

Oh, I have an off-topic question

do you guys planned to have more vehicle delivery jobs?

I had an idea where you can fly unobtainable aircrafts during vehicle delivery jobs (No, they should and must not be obtainable to players permanently)

[night thicket]

yes

[dim onyx]

It could also fit the seraphim airport stuffs

[fleet breach]

Any plans for generally more difficult jobs in the future? I crave tedium

waiting around for hexfury to make career mode makes a man weary

[dim onyx]

I slightly disliked it

[fleet breach]

?

[dim onyx]

reasons unknown

[fleet breach]

[dim onyx]

I dunno why I dislike it

[fleet breach]

Oh gotcha

[balmy mesa]

fr

[dim onyx]

the pts location gets 11 french fries out of 20 boiled potatos

I've found some cheese routes for it, slight problem is just the bomb sight

[mortal thistle]

Legit

Every person I’ve asked has been bewildered

altho that location in particular definitely needs a substantial earnings buff

[tawdry sleet]

maybe

just maybe

it's cause it wasn't in the update log

[mortal thistle]

[barren sentinel]

565 messages

[balmy mesa]

i didnt even have a clue

probably was added in the update where hyper just said “and probably much more” in the changelog

either that or they just didnt add it in some changelog which just baffles me honestly

[mortal thistle]

[mortal thistle]

The entire changelog is cooked

[balmy mesa]

cooked

[mortal thistle]

“Added Evergreen Medical Center”

More like

“Renamed New Englandtown General Hospital to Evergreen Medical Center”

[barren sentinel]

next changelog gonna be like: UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!!!! Added more aircraft and much more!

[slow pilot]

Was it not, I could've sworn it was?

[slow pilot]

me when the precision target strike asked for precision

[slow pilot]

Um

No.

[slow pilot]

because we have unlimited time

[fleet breach]

lmao

[balmy mesa]

lmfao

[vernal wing]

Guy who doesn't know how bombs work, apparently:

[vernal wing]

Your game, your loss ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[tawdry sleet]

i guess if you squint hard enough, the bomb payouts could be somewhat analoguous to the chance of destroying a tank with the bomb you dropped

direct hit -> guaranteed kill
near miss -> likely kill, but not guaranteed
miss by a few meters -> likely to disable something, but probably won't kill the tank
miss the target ->

[vernal wing]

needing to be going a certain speed + be under a certain altitude + needing to hit the target within a like 1 meter radius is ridiculous though

that's like not how strike vehicles work

[tawdry sleet]

"the terrain will confuse their targeting system"

😎

[vernal wing]

maybe on a 40 year old strike vehicle sure 😭

[tawdry sleet]

i mean

IMO strike jobs should be separated between PTS (high speed, low altitude, the way it works rn) and strategic bombing (high altitude, long distance, less rewarding but also less demanding in terms of skill)

this suggestion was made before

[vernal wing]

high altitude bombing should be like 2/3s as profitable as surveilance based on distance

most bombers are slow, the fastest one is only a fraction of the speed of the fastest surveillance vehicle

[tawdry sleet]

and AFAIK the devs agree with it to some degree, but tl;dr not enough coding devs to do it

[vernal wing]

Wawa_animated

[tawdry sleet]

idk if it's been brought up in this thread or not

but

[vernal wing]

yes i know they don't like hiring coders because of the process

i can still do a boatload of other shit that has been suggested that isn't coding related

[tawdry sleet]

i don't really think the game lacks modelers

[vernal wing]

i don't do modeling

[tawdry sleet]

at some point (back when the trellos were active) there were a ton of vehicles that were modelled but awaiting setup

[vernal wing]

i do game design, effects and soundwork

[barren sentinel]

devs lack time

that's it ig

[vernal wing]

and programming but that is out of the question for now
fair

[barren sentinel]

it looks like they're only focusing on adding more and more planes

[vernal wing]

they desperately need another audio dev tbh

also i'd add rotating beacon lights for older aircraft mark my words

[slow pilot]

carpet bombing some day

even if it is a reskinned supply drop

[tawdry sleet]

to be more precise (as far as I know, correct me if i'm wrong)

[vernal wing]

[tawdry sleet]

out of the 18 devs credited in the roblox group, only 2-4 are both competent in coding and active enough to code for the game

[barren sentinel]

crazy

[vernal wing]

that's like
a lot actually

[barren sentinel]

for a game like this

that's not a lot

[vernal wing]

it definitely is

[barren sentinel]

2-4 ?

[vernal wing]

yes

[tawdry sleet]

and hiring coders would imply trusting more or less random people with the game's data
so it's possible, but it's not gonna be done on a whim

[vernal wing]

unless they're rewriting every single script in the game you don't need more than that many coders

[barren sentinel]

ok

[tawdry sleet]

• Hyperant does a lot of coding, but they're also stretched between multiple games (Neo/Combined Arms, Rise of Nations)
  -# ||also le bote and naval 1945 but those are kinda dead IIRC||
• fly_san did a lot of QoL stuff over the last few months, and the SAR job rework
• theo and andrew do a bit of coding from time to time (I think)

apart from that (and maybe some minor contributions that i don't know of), pretty much every other dev does models

[barren sentinel]

I thought they have a team of at least 5 people being coders but...

[final kindle]

Hex is there but very busy

[tawdry sleet]

yea

[final kindle]

Rice also does coding

[tawdry sleet]

theo and andrew are also very busy ngl

[final kindle]

andrew is more focused on scenery now

and theo yeah very busy aswell

[barren sentinel]

What happened to ZaRa ?

[tawdry sleet]

idk

[tawdry sleet]

they requested a mute apparently

[barren sentinel]

Is there a channel like trade bans but only for simple ones

am I missing something ?

[tawdry sleet]

wdym

[barren sentinel]

A channel showing bans and the reason for it. Like #tradebanned-users

[tawdry sleet]

nope

if you really wanna check, you can search in #new-arrivals (where departures and bans are logged)

if you can find a message from the person, you can search their last messages and maybe see what happened

[tawdry sleet]

or you can just ask a mod why/how a person was banned

#tradebanned-users was put in place so that people know who to avoid trading with in-game
so there's no such channel for regular server bans (publicly visible, that is)

[mortal thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/diagnosis-skill-issue-diagnosis-skill-issue-draker-discord-gif-22231351

We should add even more obstacles too!

[vernal wing]

[sweet robin]

If only long range bomber jobs