Total heli control rework

[zealous pulsar]

[faint pewter]

huh

well i had to point it out either way

[zealous pulsar]

literally #rejected-suggestions message

[faint pewter]

was 1 year ago

or even 2

yk the bullshit's been going for quite a while now dont u think?

[zealous pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/aeronautica-fyrel-gif-25710888

[faint pewter]

no

instead of just saying "skill issue skill issue"

[small hatch]

#rejected-suggestions

[faint pewter]

it was 2 years ago

[faint pewter]

.

[zealous pulsar]

its still rejected

[small hatch]

It is literally a skill issue

Helicopters don’t want to naturally fly..
Aircraft do (due to natural lift)
Helicopters are really annoying to use unless you have lots of patience

[faint pewter]

no its not

[small hatch]

if you try to force them down to land, you crash

[faint pewter]

most players find it hard to fly helis

[small hatch]

Because most players don’t practice

[zealous pulsar]

its quite easy once you get the hang of it

[faint pewter]

this is nothing close to irl

[small hatch]

because helis aren’t very good for WP making

[faint pewter]

and so what?

does it mean they have to be hard as hell to master

[small hatch]

The biggest tip is to use control mode 4, it makes flying them super easy

[faint pewter]

this is nonsense believe me

[faint pewter]

...

we dont even have to get to this point tbh

literally the tail produces no air drag

and the controls are delayed

[small hatch]

Cam mode 4 is more responsive

just try it

[faint pewter]

i doubt that

either way im not deleting this suggestion

[small hatch]

I used it to practice the heli community race that took back a while ago, where you flew 45 mins across the map and had one shot to land on a helipad to get an event plane

With enough practice it becomes second nature

[cedar roost]

those are already sorta addressed

[faint pewter]

fym

[faint pewter]

the man himself appeared

hyper

fix the helis once and for all

the nonsense's been going on for quite a while

[cedar roost]

ok just ignore what i said

[faint pewter]

i didnt understand what u meant

[cedar roost]

#1330854885440360468 message

[faint pewter]

so we are getting heli control rework next update

should i delete this suggestion?

[zealous pulsar]

yes

[faint pewter]

ok

[small hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/salute-crying-sad-gif-15286789

[cedar roost]

i dont want to say rework but we trying

[faint pewter]

like

the tail produces no airdrag

[cedar roost]

yes i get it

5th time you are mentioning

[small hatch]

[faint pewter]

plus the speed imbalance

or how can i explain it in simple words

when pulling the nose up the aircraft accellerates backwards as it would forward

[jaunty zephyr]

@faint pewter uhm

Idk if you deleted it but the original message is gone

[still vector]

Why do people even delete original posts when mods can just lock it instead, worth knowing why or what was the suggestion

[zealous shard]

Neat, guess ill dust off my other Heli’s when thats released

[small hatch]

(You can lock your own posts on mobile too)

[faint pewter]

Do u want it back

[jaunty zephyr]

idk, just pointing it out

[faint pewter]

Ok

[timber oxide]

Heli controls rn arent even half ass to use

Realistic? Kinda off but it's not horrid to fly

[errant basin]

Honestly i kinda hate it when the suggestion newbies won againt suggestion dwellers

It kinda defeats the 'walled garden' appeal of the aero community

[topaz reef]

what are you talking about

[errant basin]

yk suggestion newbies tend to suggest the dumbest & most impossible shit ever, with the most broken english known to man right?

and suggestion dwellers mock the suggestion by spamming

and yet this one is getting an approval from Hyperant himself, much to the shock & probably dismay of the lieks of Riogri, Dank & some other people shutting down suggestions this subjectively 'dumb'

[topaz reef]

idk
to me it doesn't feel like the suggestion influenced it too much

the discussion came up earlier in another unrelated suggestion (i think this is what spawned this post actually)
and fly came up saying "oh yea, we're already doing that for next update"

[small hatch]

I am in favor if anything

Hyper didn’t approve this suggestion

Believe he said he’s buffing the control responsiveness

Which is exactly what helicopters need

[errant basin]

Oh i see

[errant basin]

So the problem that helis have that VTOLs dont is the responsiveness?

Also wdym responsiveness? The sensitivity or the latency (delay) between input (key/mouse) & output (maneuver)?

[small hatch]

I’d say sensitivity

[graceful jasper]

just because you want to be a hater doesn’t mean that’s good for the community

newbies will suggest dumb shit

not out of malice but because they genuinely care and want to see cool things in the games future

[errant basin]

I mean I dont necessarily want to become a hater but that's what I see in many suggestions like this

Sometimes i see suggestions of things that i honestly wish to be ingame only to see being reacted most of the time

[faint pewter]

are you calling me a newbie?

[faint pewter]

no

yes

but more importantly

6th time

[timber oxide]

Man i had to go back read from the start to try to get what this meant because the original suggestion was deleted

Anyways I don't think it's really possible to have different accelerations based off aircraft directions

Aeronautica as is isn't super realistic anyways

[topaz reef]

i have no idea what you're talking about

like i genuinely don't know

[timber oxide]

He wants helicopters to accelerate slower when moving backwards

It's realistic i guess? But i couldn't see it being implemented into aero

The only thing i have against helis and vtols rn in aero is that their fuel consumption needs to be reworked so that collective =/= throttle

They shouldn't have more range than props because of how collective works ingame

[topaz reef]

well tbh the insane range of helicopters is the main reason why a certain amount of people use them

[faint pewter]

scroll up

and read

[faint pewter]

this is not what im talking about 😭

[topaz reef]

you deleted your post

[timber oxide]

I don't think most people want to backread that far

[faint pewter]

keep scrolling up

[faint pewter]

whatever

the tail

produces no air drag

[timber oxide]

That's what i got from your text back up at the talk lol

[faint pewter]

in aeronautica

[topaz reef]

i understand you keep talking about "tail drag"
but i have no idea what it is or how it is supposed to affect the flight mechanics

[faint pewter]

do you thin

that helicopters in aero

are realistic?

if yes

i'd like to know what substance you're on

[timber oxide]

Brother nothing in aero is realistic

Not even the normal planes

[faint pewter]

does that mean helis have to be impossible to fly?

[timber oxide]

They can't even stall properly

[timber oxide]

They're not hard to fly after you do like 3 heli jobs lol

[faint pewter]

look i cant bother to even talk to you alr

[topaz reef]

[topaz reef]

they're not

but like

in which way do you think helicopter physics could be improved

[faint pewter]

response rate

[topaz reef]

so like

[faint pewter]

which will be buffed

and tail existence

[topaz reef]

make them respond quicker to controls ?

[faint pewter]

not only that

[timber oxide]

Wtf do you want the tail to do

[topaz reef]

wouldn't it make it harder to hover tho

[faint pewter]

💀

[timber oxide]

Do you want it to act like an airbrake when flaring or something???

[faint pewter]

@timber oxide

[faint pewter]

do u also want ur heli to drift in random directions?

[timber oxide]

???

[faint pewter]

are you looking for a debate or what?

[timber oxide]

I don't get what you're asking for

[timber oxide]

Like heli sensitivity and responsiveness i think i get from your suggestion? But I don't get what you want from the tail

[faint pewter]

please just shut up already 😭

[timber oxide]

[topaz reef]

ok small problem

[faint pewter]

go ahead

[topaz reef]

1 - not everyone here has a degree in aeronautical engineering

[faint pewter]

it aint mean shit

i aint got a degree in aeronautical engineering yet

[topaz reef]

i'm not bullying you
i literally don't understand what you mean by "tail drag"

[faint pewter]

air drag produced by tail

[topaz reef]

and 2 - aeronautica doesn't simulate fluid flow

we can't just "add drag" to the tail

[faint pewter]

keeps nose in position

[faint pewter]

in aero the tail is immune to airflow

allowing u to do shit like this

[faint pewter]

.

[zealous shard]

mate its a lego game, i dont know what your expecting

[topaz reef]

ooohhhh

alr

[zealous shard]

be glad your not using neo warfares helicopter physics where its just pressing a keybind

[faint pewter]

"MATE ITS A LEGO GAME"

MF

i want helis

to just be

controllable

okay?

i dont want to fly a machine

that does as it wishes

[topaz reef]

i mean i guess they could do something like airships where yaw controls are much slower when you're in the air

[faint pewter]

ah fuck na

[topaz reef]

and

[faint pewter]

pls no i dont want q and e

[zealous shard]

theyre not exactly controllable irl if you dont have the skills to fly them

[topaz reef]

they could do something like PSM aircraft, where if you yaw too far away from the direction of movement the aircraft goes kaboom

[zealous shard]

just note the game uses neo warfare physics

[faint pewter]

i have played neo warfare before

[topaz reef]

do you think helis are better in neo warfare or in aero

[faint pewter]

idk its been a long time since ive played neo warfare

[zealous shard]

id say they arent as good in neo warfare as its just

press t

after engine start

hold R until your in the air

full throttle

press T to exit vtol mode

[topaz reef]

basically helis in neo warfare are controlled like airships in aeronautica

[faint pewter]

ew

[topaz reef]

W and S to go forward and back

[faint pewter]

ewww

[topaz reef]

and two other keys to go up and down

[faint pewter]

ok it means aero helis are better, but still hard as shit and i still wish for a rework or optimize it

[topaz reef]

meanwhile helis in aero behave as if they were a giant propeller hat

you turn on engine, thingie goes up

you tilt forward, thingie goes kinda up and kinda forward

[faint pewter]

yeah so aero helis are still bad

[topaz reef]

have you ever seen the roll bug

if you set the toggle to 0 and roll your helicopter upside down, it starts speeding up

[zealous shard]

i wanna try that lmao

[topaz reef]

and for some reason helis don't have an overspeed

[zealous shard]

how fast do you speed up

[topaz reef]

so you can reach over mach 1 if your heli has a high service ceiling

[topaz reef]

^

[zealous shard]

perfect

[topaz reef]

https://discord.com/channels/820044095535185951/1188630383324053605

i had made a bug report a while back

but AFAIK it's still working

[faint pewter]

Notice how here the heli doesnt get yeeted all the way back at 300+ km/h?

[topaz reef]

also if you flip it back up and turn throttle up, you can recover from the meteorite

[faint pewter]

while it's nose is above 10° or 15°

[topaz reef]

he's landing with the rotor pointing up

aero helicopters hover with the aircraft model upright

which may or may not align with the rotor

[faint pewter]

my friend

thats literally the aw139

[topaz reef]

well yea

[faint pewter]

if u did this

with a heli

that doesnt have a tilted rotor

like the aw139

[topaz reef]

in the video, at least from what i can tell, the helicopter lands with the rotor parallel to the ground

[faint pewter]

would still not get yanked backwards at insane speed

[topaz reef]

true

[faint pewter]

so thats one of the problems

[topaz reef]

but IRL helicopter pilots toy with collective, throttle, cyclic

[faint pewter]

second problem

sometimes when ur flying right

your heli takes some time to fully adjust the direction

towards the nose

something that the tail usually does

[topaz reef]

what if the helis had a hover mode and flight mode, like VTOLS

[faint pewter]

im talking about flying forward

[small hatch]

[faint pewter]

if you were my son i'd beat you

shush

[topaz reef]

coz like
i've seen videos where helicopters handle more like fixed-wing aircraft than hovering vehicles

[faint pewter]

yer mouth

[small hatch]

And I got a suggestion rule 4 warn for simply joking around

[faint pewter]

fr?

[faint pewter]

another example

[small hatch]

Yea altho this is sorta an understatement

[cedar roost]

it already does that provided you dont have the collective cranked all the way up wym

[topaz reef]

that is also true

[faint pewter]

i can film another video for that then

[small hatch]

That’s because you’re supposed to land with <25% throttle

If you crank it up then you will get flung

again, an issue of having patience

[faint pewter]

.

pretty sure this guy had no patience

[small hatch]

because unfortunately in Roblox we only have a keyboard and mouse not a joystick and pedals

[faint pewter]

plus that kind of manouever in aero would get you yeeted sideways

you would crash into a building

[small hatch]

Not if you decrease the throttle

[small hatch]

Notice how the helicopter is moving forward while landing so the pilot tilts backwards to make it come to a standstill

Doing that same action (at landing power) in aero provides the same result

reminder that helicopter pilots like this have thousands of hours of professional training on how to properly land

[faint pewter]

still ended up in this situation

buff the brakes even

[small hatch]

Your real life comparisons have all been “stunt” helicopters

And you’re using a transport helicopter

Try watching a larger helicopter try to land on a boat for example

https://youtube.com/shorts/TPKBsE_fiIY?si=daUVexyHLfr4y8sh

[cedar roost]

oh my lard you thrashed that poor helis landing gear

[small hatch]

• Not facing into the wind
• your movements are too jerky and not smooth

Try using camera mode 4

[cedar roost]

although that video did give me an idea

[faint pewter]

not facing into the wind?

IS THIS A FUCKING SAILSHIP?

[small hatch]

If you’re not facing into the wind you’re going to get pushed off course

[faint pewter]

JUST GO TO WINDWARD ATP

THIS IS AERONAUTICE WE DONT CARE ABOUT THE WIND!!!!!!!!!

[small hatch]

It’s literally physics

A slow moving helicopter is only generating an upwards force. Any lateral force, even small, will have great affect

[faint pewter]

thats why we have a tail

[small hatch]

the tail is to stop the helicopter from spinning around it’s rotor like a tabletop

hence why twin rotor helicopters don’t have a smaller tail rotor

[cedar roost]

language barrier

[small hatch]

[zealous shard]

Me when 50knot crosswind into Fiskar

[cedar roost]

i dont think he means literally the tail rotor but rather trying to explain when you expose more of the heli to the side you get more drag and hence you are supposed to slow down

[zealous shard]

i do think wind matters

[faint pewter]

YES

[small hatch]

Pretty sure that’s due to landing into the wind as well

Bigger “frontal” area means the wind will push back more

[cedar roost]

how it is rn isnt great

[small hatch]

drag at landing speeds would likely be negligible

Yea

True

[faint pewter]

it has to HELP the heli going straight

[small hatch]

[faint pewter]

yeah when you're going at 200+ km/h u shouldnt be allowed to magically spin like in the first recording i did

[cedar roost]

7th time'

[small hatch]

Thrust was WAY too high

[faint pewter]

AND?

[zealous shard]

btw hyperant, completely unrelated but the winds physics in this game rock, i absolutely love flying into storms because of it

[small hatch]

https://tenor.com/view/skill-issue-gif-3162630526972526919

-# Jokes ofc

[small hatch]

That can be done by changing the speed of the tail rotor

Because every action generates an equal and opposite reaction

The helicopter has a very strong tendency to want to spin around the rotor shaft

[faint pewter]

excuse me what

[small hatch]

Have you ever watched a video of what happens when a helicopter’s rear tail rotor goes out

[faint pewter]

you can do the same spin at the opposite direction

[faint pewter]

yes

[small hatch]

...by increasing the speed of the tail rotor

[faint pewter]

it spins on itself

[faint pewter]

realistically at that speed

would be quite useless

especially when going forward

[small hatch]

if anything, that maneuverability helps quite a bit to landing helicopters in aero

[faint pewter]

yeah but u can do that js at low speeds (and collective)

[small hatch]

If you try spinning with the tail rotor at higher speeds it should spin slower

Ingame

I think it does but dont quote me on it

Keyword being high speed not collective

[faint pewter]

yes

[small hatch]

I believe it’s because the handling model is based on speed and not thrust level

Like how if you go faster in a super maneuverable jet it turns worse

[faint pewter]

obviously

same thing

thats what i was talking about

[small hatch]

Changing the handling model would likely make landings even harder

[graceful jasper]

Do you mean the tail should weathervane the heli into relative wind?

[timber oxide]

Idk about yall but this is a game where aircraft respond to stalling by pitching upwards if you're diving to get out of the stall

I think there's worse physics issues than

Being able to spin your helicopter while going in another direction

[faint pewter]

Lmfao true

That deserves a fix aswell

I was in my su-30 and i reached above 19.500m

Then my plane started going up

I was like "ok i guess we're being taken in space"

[faint pewter]

No

Not into the wind

What is it? a sailboat?

[cedar roost]

??

[faint pewter]

Yes

Stalling above service ceiling now takes you to the stratosphere and then back down

[zealous shard]

then just dont stall

[faint pewter]

It gets tuah point

[zealous shard]

just wack it into full throttle and recover

[timber oxide]

So true

[faint pewter]

Eh no not really

[zealous shard]

its such a simple manuever

[cedar roost]

were you like zoom climbing

[timber oxide]

Yeah it's mostly an issue during zoom climbs

Something something SST gameplay ig

[faint pewter]

Yes

i was in a su24

Above 11000m

I missed the leveling button and got taken up to 25,000m

[timber oxide]

Me trying to dive at full throttle so that i don't lose all my airspeed

[timber oxide]

Due to game being slow i climb above the service ceiling

[cedar roost]

ok i thought yall were talking about being in level flight and then just getting yeeted or something

[timber oxide]

Plane decides to pitch up out of the stall recovery and i lose all my altitude and speed

[zealous shard]

thats your upset recovery mnemonics, till we meet again i s'ppose

[cedar roost]

moral of the story is dont climb at like 60 degrees doing mach 3 near the service ceiling ig

[timber oxide]

More or less

But it does get really annoying with the blackbird when a 5 degree climb ends up putting you into a stall anyways and you lose your speed

[cedar roost]

[timber oxide]

Anyways uh

Going back to helis

Me personally I don't have an issue with helicopters other than their fuel efficiency not being accurate

Since collateral is throttle for aero helis

[small hatch]

That’s due to ping

[timber oxide]

it's not

[small hatch]

Likely

[small hatch]

You mean while climbing?

Likely because you aren’t going fast enough for your altitude

You can stall at lower than ceiling obviously

[timber oxide]

correct

[timber oxide]

yes and then you dive to compensate

except your plane is still in a upwards motion sayy around halfway through your corrective measure

now it decides that spaceflight is the way to go and goes above the flight ceiling

[small hatch]

Does not change the fact that you’re still too high altitude

[timber oxide]

okay and it doesn't change the fact that planes do not stall into a upwards pitch

except for a few exceptions

[small hatch]

Planes stall if there’s not enough lift to support their wings

That is what’s happening

[timber oxide]

typically planes won't go over their maximum flight ceiling, nor gain altitude in a stall

[faint pewter]

i got some bad news

[topaz reef]

@faint pewter check #dev-showcase

tail drag shall exist

kinda

[faint pewter]

What do you mean by this

[topaz reef]

#dev-showcase message

[faint pewter]

LETS FUCKING GOOOO

[topaz reef]

Hyperant posted a showcase of the changed heli controls they had been working on

[topaz reef]

actually it was already posted when y'all were talking

i was asleep

but yea those new controls look cool, if a little bit harder to control

idk tho

we'll see

[faint pewter]

I was about to go to sleep

[shadow moth]

Im join the discussion

[faint pewter]

discussion ended

[shadow moth]

Im not start yet

[shadow moth]

can I discuss here or should make a thread?

[faint pewter]

ok

what do u want to discuss actually

like the whole point was that heli control are bad

and hyperant is fixing them in the next update

[shadow moth]

yawn camera, rotation anchor, control idle

[faint pewter]

you want hover mode

[shadow moth]

could you explain, video hover?

[faint pewter]

??

what video

[shadow moth]

wait, what control youre using for heli? mouse, keyboard, or joystick?

[faint pewter]

mode 4

for now

[shadow moth]

with mouse or only keyboard?

[faint pewter]

newgen

[shadow moth]

for this game, yeahh hahaha

[shadow moth]

Mode 4

@weary portal

[weary portal]

[shadow moth]

I hope you not make funny of me

[faint pewter]

ok and?

hyper is improving helis next update

aint no need to discuss no mo

[shadow moth]

that message is not for you, I just joking with my friend zara, see our current message in #help-channel

[shadow moth]

its was control mode 2 and mode 1 in the video, I see is still same could you tell me the different my friend?

[faint pewter]

what difference

[shadow moth]

yes

[graceful jasper]

good suggestion

[topaz reef]

nice image btw 👍

[shadow moth]

the different after and before in video. because I dont know

[topaz reef]

k so i thought of one downside of this
usually when ESing helicopters i go back and forth over avalon

so i often kinda just pitch up, and the aircraft goes backwards

won't be able to do that now

now you'll have to actually take your mouse and turn the heli

literally 1984

[timber oxide]

I mean you can still fly backwards

Just at a slower speed

And have an autoclicker or something keep your nose forward

Camera 3 maybe

[faint pewter]

what downside

that?

yeah when u pitch up ur heli goes backwards really fast

[topaz reef]

ye

no funny backward flying

[faint pewter]

yeah its not funny

[topaz reef]

yes it is

party pooper

[timber oxide]

Okay but with the new physics we can do shit like j hook landings easier i think

Which is gonna be super rad

[topaz reef]

[brave kelp]

When is this going to happen? I hate pitching down like a madman to move at normal speeds

[still vector]

why are we necroing

[topaz reef]

this has already happened

[brave kelp]

say what?

[topaz reef]

added as of 1.157.0

[brave kelp]

but what do I use to control the collective

[topaz reef]

W and S

[brave kelp]

thats throttle aint it?

[topaz reef]

kinda does both in aero

you only need it at 26% to hover

and then tilt forward to move

[brave kelp]

but I cant control collective and throttle separately

26% aint getting me nowhere

Ill try it out now, I doubt its any good

[brave kelp]

the whole point was not needing to tilt forward

[topaz reef]

mb i forgot

perhaps because y'all revived a semester-old post which has been deleted

[brave kelp]

they need to add it