High player cap

[tawdry lagoon]

60 would actually be epic in milsim type gamemodes

[tawdry lagoon]

yes please, Arma reforger modpack would be awesome

[tacit lotus]

mate that would be unplayable on quest 2/3

[vapid ore]

starfield performance simulator

[slow sequoia]

well make it adjustible

im sick of quest stunting the growth and features of games like it geuninly makes me so mad because we have already lost so much because the quest players just dont have a pc. make a seperate version of the game or make quest 2 more limited dont just flat out take away things from both sides because one cant handle it

[uneven pendant]

You’re angry because some people can’t afford a pc? Also that’s more of a limitation on the server end as hosting that many players at once with a low latency would be extremely expensive and buggy.

[slow sequoia]

no im angry because people are catering their creativity and features to quest players

people are limiting their games potential because of quest compatibility

[uneven pendant]

Like I said, even with PC VR, hosting that many players at once on a single server would be expensive and buggy.

[slow sequoia]

probably, would very much be worth it, gmod can do it perfectly fine

[uneven pendant]

Gmod can run on a raspberry pi

[slow sequoia]

good, they should make it similar

[uneven pendant]

Gmod uses an extremely outdated version of the source engine, while beyond sandbox uses unreal 5. The only thing that the quest really limits is the quality of any local rendering.

[tawdry lagoon]

Hm what causes the bulk of the lag? The physics interactions?

[uneven pendant]

Physics interactions can be weird sometimes because they have to on the client and server end.

When a player touches an interactable object it has to either be processed on the client then sent to the server (which can lead to weird issues) or it can be immediately sent to the server end to be processed and then sent back which would lead to latency issues. Like you could kick something and it wouldn’t move for a second.

[tawdry lagoon]

Hm

[uneven pendant]

A good example of client side physics interactions on multiplayer would be the beam mp mod for Beam MG

It processes physics on client side then sends it to the server

[tawdry lagoon]

I would gravitate towards that

Hm however one guy with bad connection could really mess up the space

[uneven pendant]

It can lead to weird issues though. Since each client processes physics separately, multiple players interacting with same thing could cause it to have a different outcome on each client until the server corrects it when a client sends another packet of information about the physics interaction to the server.

I’m not even sure how that would work

But you can assume it would be buggy.

[tawdry lagoon]

Hm so is the limiting factor now latency with clients or server processing power?

Id imagine either or

[covert crest]

60 melons battle

[tawdry lagoon]

Yo @uneven pendant are you a developer of some sorts?

Just curious

[uneven pendant]

I’m learning Java on my own time. But I’m very familiar with how games function.

[tawdry lagoon]

Are you planning on making mods for this one?

[uneven pendant]

I’m not that knowledgeable compared to most modders.

I don’t think I’m at that level yet

I might learn how to use unreal 5 though

[unique kite]

@slow sequoia Im completely on your side, i used to be an questie but switched to PCVR and now i understand completely, Honest to god hate when we could get features but cause of quest perforamance cant get it, either limit what the quest can do like vrchat or make another game like nomad

[slow sequoia]

fr, they should limit quest features but still deliver all of the best ideas they have to offer

[unique kite]

Quest is honest to god just inferior and should be treated as such, im sorry you dont have pc but look i cant buy an 5090 can i? we all have our limits doesn't mean you should ruin other peoples fun because you choose the small white breadroll

[slow sequoia]

fr im pretty sure this is why bonelab was so bad

[unique kite]

Bonelab just looks like boneworks but with really cool avatars and good modding [and kinda better graphics on pc]

[slow sequoia]

yeah

story was horrific tho base game content was bad only good thing is modding and avis and shit

[unique kite]

Yeah and then you got something like half life alyx which didnt sell out for the quest

[covert crest]

Be melon is on meta

[bitter sorrel]

Because most the money will probably come from quest players

[slow sequoia]

ok

still should not downgrade the pc version for quest or not do as much because of quest

[ivory patio]

Standalone VR is the next stage in VR gaming, PCVR is far too expensive for the average working person so mastering and perfecting standalone is better in the long run

[slow sequoia]

pc vr is better

[uneven pendant]

Actually, I own a pc. A ryzen 9 with a 4070 Super. Don’t judge what others can afford. I have the full capacity to use PC VR but lugging a 35 pound solid metal box just to play a vr game in your living room. Read my previous messages, hardware has nothing to do with the limitations. All rendering is done client side, meaning it can be adjusted for whatever you want to run the game on. The large player cap is difficult because it would be extremely expensive to host with a low latency. The servers would most likely be completely laggy regardless of your hardware.

To clarify

This is talking to the other making fun of quest users

[ivory patio]

yea duh? that has nothing to do with the consumers, people can afford standalone headsets not PCVR so OBVIOUSLY they are going to cater to the standalones

90% of VR is quest/standalone headsets

[slow sequoia]

they should cater to them im just saying they should not restrict their plans or ideas for pc players to the limits of questies

[ivory patio]

the other 10% have money to get PCVR

[uneven pendant]

Perhaps one of you could open a support ticket and ask a mod for their opinion on the player caps?

[ivory patio]

Theres no point in putting all that money and development manpower to a very small portion of the community

when that time could be used to create content for the entire game

[slow sequoia]

still a big amount of people play pc vr

[ivory patio]

you think a majority of the sales of this game are gonna be PCVR? get real

[slow sequoia]

pc vr is the best vr and a lot of people play it, half life alyx has over 100k sales

[uneven pendant]

The smart move would be give people with the resources the option to host their own server

[slow sequoia]

no i dont but for the sake of pc vr players they should not mix and match nerfs for quest with pc

[uneven pendant]

Which is what Pavlov players do to get high player counts

[slow sequoia]

one simple screw up of the multiplayer game mode could make the game not worth buying

[ivory patio]

this is called greed, you just want and want without thinking about the work and effort and money that would have to go into that, all for only 10% of their playerbase to have access to it

[slow sequoia]

if the multiplayer is bad in anyway im probably not going to buy it

[slow sequoia]

still a LOT of people

I want the game to actually be good

since a lot of pc & quest games that have cross play arent

[ivory patio]

Not in terms of millions, I can tell youre probably some kid whos never had a job because if you cant see how this would hurt the studio then idk you might be a lost cause

you know how much it cost to pay a dev to code something of this level?

and for a game of this standard it would be more than 1 dev

that money and time would go into what? a very small change for others on pcvr? lets be nice here maybe MAYBE 6k players would be on this PCVR only version while 400k would be on the crossplatform version

do you not see the issue with that? the majority matters more than a minority

[slow sequoia]

dawg idk if the game will even cater as much to quest as i think it will im all basing this off of a hypothetical i wish to be untrue and this is only thanks to the lack of communication from the devs of specific things like this

[slow sequoia]

more than 6k

i just hope they dont downplay any of the features to try and make it work on quest or at the very least dont downplay those features on pc

[ivory patio]

According to current market data, the number of standalone VR players significantly outweighs PCVR players, with estimates suggesting that standalone VR users make up around 80-90% of the total VR market, meaning for every 1 PCVR player, there are roughly 8-9 standalone VR players

[slow sequoia]

I want a game that is actually good that caters to me

[ivory patio]

Literally copied pasted,

[slow sequoia]

ok

[opaque marsh]

Does it matter it’s true

Most vr games now are effortless and graphics are booty

[slow sequoia]

i want a game that is not absolute shit

[opaque marsh]

EXACTLY!!!

[slow sequoia]

and quest 2 games are usually absolute shit

[opaque marsh]

YESS!!!

[slow sequoia]

only like well known companies make good standalone games

[ivory patio]

VR is literally uncharted territory people making vr games are the pioneers in this you know how much experience youd need to start making vr games?

[opaque marsh]

🤯

[slow sequoia]

I just want a game that isnt shitty because some people cant afford to play actually good quality games

[opaque marsh]

No duh Sherlock

[opaque marsh]

Yes

https://tenor.com/view/dance-happy-dance-black-dance-get-it-gif-14992825767124506528

[slow sequoia]

like this is a idea that if it is implemented correctly could be an industry changing giant

completely take over a small secluded race without much competition

[ivory patio]

Saints and Sinners, Skydance Behemoth, Starwars tales from the galaxys edge, Madrid Noir, Resist, Bonelab, Metro Awakening, Medal Of honor Above and beyond, Ruins Magus, Robo Recall, Asgards wrath 2, Apex Construct, Stride, Into the Radius, Red MAtter, are all AMAZING quest 2 games

[slow sequoia]

all made by big companies

[opaque marsh]

Bro bonelab almost everything about that actually sucks

[slow sequoia]

with a high budget and still are shitty compared to pc vr

[opaque marsh]

Not really graphics don’t mean everything bud

[ivory patio]

Who said anything about graphics?

[opaque marsh]

So true

[opaque marsh]

Seems like what your going by

[ivory patio]

yall gotta be like 15 or something, either you have no idea what im talking about or youre just mental

[opaque marsh]

And Those are people who usually hire a team to make a game they don’t make it 🤯

[opaque marsh]

Nah your just stupid

[unique kite]

Okay cool but we should just have an toggle for it and once it hits an threshold then it becomes an pcvr only server

[ivory patio]

You literally have no idea what your talking about

[opaque marsh]

Uh huh

[ivory patio]

Im not gonna argue with a child anymore think what you want but the money is in standalone and thats why the focus on it

[opaque marsh]

Bro standalone is actually booty you have no idea whatchu talking bout

[unique kite]

I use to play only standalone and switching to pcvr is the better choice rn, sure once we’re able to crank the performance of an 4090 on an quest 6 then I’ll start just using standalone but there’s too many upsides to pcvr. You can access a browser mid game, play music without having to go though an annoying process of either downloading third party or glitching. The only upside for standalone is price, portability and ease of access

Plus it’s easier to mod pcvr, and you can always upgrade an pc but not an quest 3

I bet even when standalone runs as good as current pcvr some will still choose pcvr cause of the ability to upgrade and customise as much as they want

Think about handheld devices for example

They’re bassicly the standalone of consoles

They’ve been around for nearly 30 years or longer and still cannot outcompete an console

Tho standalone and pcvr are catered to different audiences

Standalone is for the casual player who only plays for the every now and then fun

But pcvr is for someone plays vr as an main hobby and cares about modding capability as well as performance

[onyx saddle]

You cant just make it adjustable. That would be like stabbing, murdering, and throwing your quality into a fire then launching it into space. Adjusting things to make 60 players fit into a single server would just nearly be impossible. Even games like pavlov are laggy on standalone with just 24 players, and thats a game that barely has realistic quality

[tawdry lagoon]

Did someone do this yet? I’ll do it maybe

[daring marlin]

YEAAAAA

I LIKE YOU NOW

Imagine antistasi in beyond sandbox

[tawdry lagoon]

Yea I do think the way to go is having filters on servers that allow people to play with others on specific devices.

The quest 2 will probably have access to servers with less capacity, but it is also cheaper.

Investing in more processing power or using a pc will be a trade off that is worth it considering the amazing experiences you can have with high player count.

So yea don’t split quest 2 from the rest, still make it possible to play together with all platforms, but the higher player servers need more processing power on the client

[tawdry lagoon]

Exactly that’s why player cap should be determined by the least powerful device able to enter the server

Quest 2 may be 16 players, pcvr may even get to the 40s

[slow sequoia]

limit it so quest players can only join lobbies with like half the amount

[slow sequoia]

just make pc look higher quality and function better but also compatible with the quest in worse quality

[tawdry lagoon]

Exactly

[slow sequoia]

yuh

[onyx saddle]

Ohh,i thought you meant making the quality of the game lower to fit that many people. Thanks for clarifying

[tawdry lagoon]

Well generally it would be cool if there were some very powerful servers like officially run ones

[slow sequoia]

yeah that would be dope

like we segregate questies from pc players so the questies can host their own lobbies with a lower player count while pc players can host their own server with a higher playercount

[craggy flare]

This sounds familiar

I think the US did this a while back, it didn't work out

[tawdry lagoon]

what

[simple atlas]

Well seeing as majority of VR users are quest, (if I’m not wrong). It makes sense that games would market to the largest audience for maximum profit.

[simple atlas]

LOL

[craggy flare]

Yeah, quest is the most accessible and cheap

[tawdry lagoon]

And if they saw what was possible on better hardware they might think twice before buying another quest headset

But since the better hardware isn’t being noticed and is constantly downgraded for compat with quest we never see the true potential

[craggy flare]

Because as we all know everyone can afford a pc and headset that can run pcvr, also there are plenty of games that use pcvr's full potential, there's nothing wrong with trying to make a game compatible with both.

[tawdry lagoon]

It becomes a problem when the greater part of the game is downgraded for quest people

I get that crossplay is important

But having pcvr servers that push it further would be desirable

[simple atlas]

It's more so about price rather than ability

[daring marlin]

All i want from these game is vehicles so we can Battlefield but vr, arma is really hard though

[wind cairn]

But I am not sure the quest 2 will be able to run a 60 player lobby

[tawdry lagoon]

Yea we discussed here that higher player cap lobbies would be for higher end devices

[wind cairn]

You know it’s gonna be hard on the quest 3 too

[tawdry lagoon]

Yea then pcvr

[daring marlin]

Supremacy.

[marble elm]

They’ve been around for a while, sure. But that doesn’t mean the tech for the mobile devices was always there too. If you wanna compare this to past events, look at the telephone. The telephone’s been here for about a century, and is only starting to get real good now. Just because it’s been there for a while doesn’t mean it always had the potential to become the best, so you have to give it time for it to become the best.

Hell, consoles were here for like 50 years or so and is only now starting to get good graphics.

[junior forge]

Imagine going to fucking war? Yes please!

[unique kite]

I’ll agree that an console still has potential to be the best but as long as desktops exist they will always be worse, hell we get an new console from PlayStation every 7-10 years and x box like five years meanwhile nividia are dropping new high end gpus every year, example look at the 4090 vs the 5090, sure 5090 is only an 10-20% performance boost but once you turn on dlss it instantly becomes an 400% performance build, this tech could legit become the new norm with fake frames

What I’m saying is that consoles and handheld devices will always be below an pc

Cause even if the ps7 runs as good as an 4090 the new 9090 exists

[marble elm]

While you are right that the PC market is evergrowing and expanding, that doesn’t mean that console and mobile won’t just remain inferior for all of eternity.