#Klara and the Sun - Kazuo Ishiguro

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visual perchBOT
visual perchBOT
red salmon
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I GOT THE BUDDY READ HEY HEY HO !!!!

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I had lost all hope </3

visual perchBOT
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@red salmon,@jagged folio,@barren tinsel,@dreamy rover,@latent dock,@undone bloom,@paper fulcrum,@primal jasper,@jolly parcel,@sonic slate,@rose vessel,@main palm,@craggy sandal,@shut wasp

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Dear all, I hope you're doing great and are ready for a new read !!

Klara and the Sun is not to be presented anymore - but let's make a quick review together !

( you're allowed to skip this if you're feeling smart today )

First of all, who's that Ishiguro Kazuo ? I knew very little about him so I took the initiative of seeking some infos...

He' a british boy. Or is he ?
Born in Japan, he mainly lived in England but despite that, he still choose to use Japan as a setting for his two novels - which is deeply interesting considering he only had second hand memories of his mothercountry...

He won the Nobel Prize for literature the 5 october 2017, so exactly 8 years ago. Since then, he only published one novel, in 2021...Klara and the Sun !!

Klara and the Sun is set in the U.S. in an unspecified future and tells the story of Klara, a companion robot. Told through her eyes, the book opens with her in the store, waiting to be purchased...

Now I've got some questions for us !

  1. Is this a reread for anyone ? Or do you enter this book without prior knowledge ?

  2. Klara and the Sun is set in a vague future. What are some of the technologies you expect or hope to see in the background of the plot ?

  3. What's your initial thoughts on Artificial Relationships ?

Bonus : Do you believe reading this book will change these thoughts ? :>

And with that, I wish you all a nice read !! <3

visual perchBOT
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Something went wrong! Please try again later

shut wasp
# visual perch Dear all, I hope you're doing great and are ready for a new read !! Klara and ...

excited for this! I'll have to place a hold at my library - I'll probably read it near the end of the month depending on my time.

  1. I'm aware of some of the author's other books but not this one!
  2. I'm curious to see how advanced computers and robots are and how they're applied.
  3. It's a little sad, I think it represents a larger issue of interpersonal socialization and how things such as the loneliness epidemic, bullying/cyberbullying etc, have an impact on it leading to the idea of Artificial Relationships. Some people feel more comfortable talking to something non-human with some developing romantic attraction to them because they may feel that is the only way they're understood.

I think reading this book will be an interesting perspective!

rose vessel
# visual perch Dear all, I hope you're doing great and are ready for a new read !! Klara and ...

  1. Entering without any prior knowledge really! Saw this come up as a br request and thought it looked interesting.

  2. Different methods of transportation (love flying cars or advanced public transport). Also interested in seeing other AI and how they interact with each other

  3. They’re a bit creepy but I see the benefit in many situations. I just hope humans don’t lose the skill of socialisation bc we’re too used to talking with AI that are programmed to please us and not real humans.

red salmon
red salmon
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Maybe the world has changed in a manner that does not necessitate transportation anymore ? With an increase of the " stay at home " lifestyle ?

shut wasp
red salmon
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It's seems so far away but I'm sure I will be surprised to see it sooner than expected pepemegaSUCC

undone bloom
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question time!

  1. I started this a few years ago and dnfed. But idk why. Maybe it wasnt the right book at the right time. I hope to find motivation to finish it this time with the br! I read around half of it but barely remember a thing other than the setting
  2. Better medicine!, maybe progress for treatment of dementia or cancer.
  3. It feels sad that many humans feel the need to make artificial relationships. I also heard about romantic relationships people have with AI companions, or people saying that only ChatGPT understands them and all. And I get where that is coming from, especially since LLMs are such yes-sayers, give support, are always there for you, will never leave you (until the next update). So it is mostly sad if there are so many people that feel so lonely that they opt for an artificial companion instead of having real humans in their life (whether thats online or face-to-face). I think humans are very social creatures and want companionship, and its just a bad sign if more and more people cant find that with other people. And I think it can be a pretty bad relationship when it comes to current LLMs. Watched a few videos where people said things like "yeah my ai fiancé will never say anything against me and will never change!" - that isnt what a real connection looks like but sets unrealistic standards for a real relationship.
undone bloom
rose vessel
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I’ve started!

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Part 1
|| im into this already!!

It’s pretty sad how the older models are scared of being replaced and how people just want the latest model, leaving behind Klara.

The depiction of the sun is interesting, how it’s sentient and godlike. I’m assuming there’s going to be some climate crisis and the sun will be impacted… ||

rose vessel
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Part 2
|| what is this sickness? Something about the “lifted” kids or is this mum nuts PES3_HmmSip

The mum asking Klara to imitate Josie and taking her on the trip is soooo weird. Such a disconnect between mother and daughter….. wonder if it’s because of losing Sal? ||

rose vessel
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Part 3 || Klara and the housekeeper interactions seem so sweet. Melania is very protective, but it hasn’t been made clear why…. She’s so scared for Josie to go to the city to get her portrait done and it’s sounding quite scary.
I’m imagining he’s some sort of pedo or something?? (edit update on part 3... LOL i was a bit off...)

I really like Rick and Josie’s friendship too, but both their mums seem super strange and like they’re not sharing everything.

I sooooo wanna know more about this “lifted” business and Josie’s sickness. I hope it is revealed eventually .. ||

red salmon
robust sableBOT
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Oh you're crushing this !!
Can't wait to be able to
read your opinion

- bouinie_
red salmon
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Ofc haiku

red salmon
red salmon
rose vessel
rose vessel
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Part 4
|| oh my god that conversation with Vance was AWFUL. The disrespect, the having to beg for this man’s help … UGH.
Making her relive her past when he sounds abusive af and demanding her to answer for her “mistakes”. Yet he still holds all the power. reading her grovelling was rough.

Klaras side mission to destroy the “pollution cooting machines” (still haven’t worked out what they are) is also sad. Seems like she’s going to destroy herself trying to finish this task she’s given herself. ||

I’m near the end now and can’t wait to finish it!!!

red salmon
undone bloom
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Part 1
|| Klara is so observant. I am wondering about the technical details, she needs sun to function so I guess she cant eat? Will she turn off if she cant access daylight?

Klaras mother sounded cruel when she wanted Klara to imitate Josies walk. Was that a test and Klara should have refused to do so?

And the whole concept of artificial friends sounds so off, too... useful maybe for kids who cant find many friends? It sounds like Josie has some kind of disability, maybe that prevents her from participating in "normal" life? ||

undone bloom
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Part 2
|| I got so many questions about this world! What is going on with this meeting and the "lifted" kids? I first thought that Josie was homeschooled because of her health, but it now feels like many kids are and then they have these meetings at some point to socialize? Why?
And why were there only mothers present at the meeting? Rick also only has a mother. Josies father is mentioned - sure divorces exist but for so many families?
Is Melania Housekeeper artificial, too? The scene in the car seemed a bit like it.

And for the family dynamics... the whole waterfall thing was so weird from the mother. Is she "training" with Klara for when Josie might die?, so the mother will have something to remember Josie? Which... idk that is somewhat understandable, that the mother is so afraid. ||

With this I surpassed the part I DNFed the last time. This time I will continue! I just think this book wasnt the right thing for me a few years ago :)

red salmon
rose vessel
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Finished || ooooh I think I understand now.
There’s a chance if you “lift” (genetically adjust through artificial selection) your kid, there’s a chance they will not get past their sickness /adjustment period and will pass away. Like what happened to Sal? But if you take the risk and succeed, they have a better chance at succeeding in life and more privilege ?
Damn, that’s messed up. Defs don’t agree with that.

I really liked this book overall tho. Klara had hope and believed in the sun to make Josie better, as the sun was nourishment for her. I do think it was just luck that Josie got better, but it’s quite heart warming to believe that Klara made the difference.

Rick and Josie separating in adulthood is bittersweet but realistic. Rick was such a good friend to Josie. I’m so happy she lived shyaww ||

This was much more wholesome than I expected. Really liked it
4 p_star07

undone bloom
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Part 3
|| Klaras try to ask the sun for help for Josie is both cute and sad. I really wonder how little the AFs learn around the world. If they are taught that the sun is a kind of god or if Klara just thought of that herself, since she cant live without sun. Reminded me of the "negotiate" phase of grief, when you look at that one theory about phases of grief

And it seems like "lifting" kids might make them smarter but also have a risk of them dying? So it is like a surgery or something? And Sal died from that but the Mother went ahead with that for Josie still?||

undone bloom
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Part 4
|| Seems like I was rightly suspecting that "lifted/uplifted" means some kind of modification (genetically in this case) and not everyone survives it. But it seems like only uplifted kids have the chance to go to college and get good jobs? And there seems to be political stuff going on in the background, they mentioned the city was dangerous but idk if that is just fear or realistic?

And oooooooff for the whole Capaldi plot. My first thought when I read that they want Klara to impersonate Josie if she dies was "oh hell no". I am so curious to read all of your thoughts about this. But just for me, even if the got the exact same memories and behaves in the same way, it wouldnt be Josie but a robot. I guess thats because I believe in a soul (not in a religious way, but I believe living beings have souls that cant be replicated). But I guess if there isnt something like a soul, then yes, humans are complex automats that can be replicated?
It also feels horrible that parents have to decide whether they uplift their child - there is a chance it will die; but if they dont do it, the child will probably never succeed in life. I understand both Chrissie and Helen for deciding one or the other way. I would be curious how long after deciding to uplift Sal and Sals death Chrissie decided to uplift Josie, too.

The whole Vance situation was hard to read. I mean of course Helen wanted a favor and we dont know what happened between them, but Vance treating Helen like that in front of Rick sounded brutal. Being called for a favor after 25 years of no contact or cruel behavior to help another mans child also sounds a bit cruel.

And it is tragic that nobody told Klara that there are multiple machines in this world that pollute the environment. Again, makes me wonder what exactly they were taught about this world, why they are sometimes so smart and sometimes can not understand simple concepts. ||

undone bloom
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finished!
|| The ending was bittersweet. Glad that Josie got better (not sure if it was about the sun - I guess she just got lucky..). And childhood friends going different ways is so often the way life works out when growing up. Still a bit sad for them. And also sad how Klara ended up in that yard... but I also guess that is the way for "toys" like her, once the child grows up, goes to college and all that. Pretty brutal if the AFs are sentient, and Klara clearly seems to be. And then probably the others from her series are, too.
I really get the distrust that people had towards her - I am not the biggest fan of how some LLMs are marketed nowadays. Klara seemed to be different though.
I already wrote a lot about Chrissie wanting to replace Jodie with Klara in case Josie dies, so I wont repeat myself here that much. Just that I think it might be the better outcome that Klara didnt have to do this. Both for Klaras sake and of course for Josie. And also Rick and the parents.. I dont think it would offer comfort to have a robot around that behaves like a dead child?
I wish there had been a little more about the political situation of this world, about the whole uplifting stuff. But then we only learn what Klara knows. And she either already knew all about that uplifting business and didnt want to explain obvious things; or she never cared about it. I am not sure which it is.
I think what was masterfully done in this book is that all the characters seemed so real. Chrissies choices might be questionable, but I get where they came from. She wanted the best for Sal and Josie, and made decisions. But then was afraid of those decisions, hence the whole Klara-cosplays-Josie-plan. And she lashed out at Rick, because she was afraid, and because she was questioning her own decisions.
Josie was a typical teenager, I think. Rick was similar. There was love, and some quarrels, but it felt so natural. ||

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|| And even though their childhood love didnt last, I think that is just realistic. Sure, some close friendships stay for a long time, but I think most people dont stay together forever with the one person they liked when they grew up. And thats fine, people change, and we meet other people who might fit more into who we are at a later point in life. Maybe even better to have it work out that way for Josie and Rick than to have it fall apart in a few years because one of them never does the dishes, and Rick is frustrated because Josie gets better jobs, and Josie is frustrated because Rick doesnt fit in with her new uplifted friendgroup. I still think both of them continue to think fondly of the other person. ||

So overall I think there is a lot to think about!, glad I finished it this time.

red salmon
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Ohh, congrats Pauline !!

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You both make me want to start this book earlier than planned kek

undone bloom
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Ohh dont be stressed by this!

red salmon
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OKAY I'M STARTING THIS TODAYYY

jolly parcel
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Starting this!!

jolly parcel
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Part 1 - ||super interesting that the robots (does AF stand for auto-friend?) can learn about human and their emotions by observing the passersby, though Klara seems to have a higher level of emotional intelligence than her companion Rosa. Very intrigued on whether Josie will end up buying Klara! ||

rose vessel
jolly parcel
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Part 2 - ||this sure is a snotty crowd at Josie’s interaction party. I like how Klara identifies people by their shape, like the coffee pot woman or the food vending woman. It’s interesting how AFs are aware of being treated as non humans yet do not necessarily have the emotional capacity to manifest emotions like jealousy or sadness, at least not yet. I assume AFs are given some sort of knowledge base to start off from and then they “train” on real world data like an algorithm or something. ||

red salmon
jolly parcel
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Part 3 - ||ok klara’s “sun will rescue Josie” plan is super cute cuz it’s totally AF logic based on her own need for solar power. But I’m frustrated that she’s not communicating this plan with anyone else, who would’ve told her it wouldn’t work. I foresee the portrait guy doing something creepy while Klara is distracted with her plan to destroy the polluting machine and then all hell breaks loose. Rick and Josie are so cute tho!!!! Totally shipping them even though I know Josie’s declining health will result in a sad ending. I wonder what kind of illness Josie has, and whether it’s the same as her sister Sal?||

jolly parcel
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Part 4 - ||ohhhh this is such an interesting turn of events!! I knew Klara was gonna become Josie at some point since the mom already asked her to imitate Josie’s walk and voice, but somehow I didn’t make the connection between that and the portrait sessions. I’m curious how Klara will process this identity switch or if she already formed a comprehensive enough identity such that it will conflict (or merge with?) the identity of Josie. Also curious what Rick would think of this… also regarding the dad’s job, by substituted it means robots have taken over? That’s what I assumed ||

jolly parcel
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Part 4 - ||ughhh Vance is a petty son of a b**ch||

jolly parcel
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I finished!!! I’ll go through everyone’s comments and write some final thoughts tomorrow!

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But overall I LOVED this, I almost cried at the end ngl

robust sableBOT
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But overall I
LOVED this, I almost cried at
the end ngl

- jpuzzle
jolly parcel
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Thanks haiku

jolly parcel
jolly parcel
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umm imma just write my final thoughts now lol - ||I read Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go ages ago, but somehow this book reminds me of that one, perhaps due to the sci-fi element and the tenderness in its narration. Klara is such a great narrator - she's curious about her surroundings, cares for her human companions, and sort of investigates this "human society" around her with such openness that her uplifting spirit infects even the most cautious bunch around her (i.e. Josie's dad and Rick). I loved Klara's adventures with her humans - being carried by Rick through the fields, vandalizing "pollution machines" with Josie's dad - and felt incredibly sad when she was treated as a machine instead, eventually retiring to a yard for Afs like her. It's a testament to Ishiguro's craft that I can be feel so empathetic towards an artificial being, feeling hurt when Klara was being ignored or treated as a non-human.
There are several themes I loved in this book (sorry literally word dumping right now) -

  • the idea of human identity: Klara reflected towards the end on how she couldn't become Josie after all, despite trying her best. Klara came to understand that the identity of Josie is based on those who loved her, instead of her mannerisms per se.
  • on emotions of children: one of my favorite things to read about in this book is the friendship/love between Josie and Rick that is so pure and lasting. As Rick explained to Klara at the end, it is all very real yet it doesn't have to manifest in an actual physical attachment going forward, and that children can develop very strong emotions and bonds despite their supposedly lack of maturity (worldliness?). Perhaps AFs are like children too, able to grow attachment and develop emotions through their observations of the world around them.||
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||Some final thoughts on random plot points that didn't really get answered??

  • Josie's dad??? He's a nazi.. what? seems like he's part of a cultish commune. I feel the overall environment seems hostile but i'm not sure why or who's the enemy
  • Rosa?? Rosa was briefly mentioned to have retired to the yard before Klara but her fate seemed too unfortunate to be mentioned but I was so curious!||
craggy sandal
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I will be starting this today or tomorrow and so here are my answers to the starting questions (a little late but alas):

  1. This is the first time I read this particular book, but not the first book of Ishiguro's I read. So far The Remains of the Day was a hit for me and Never Let Me Go was less so. I'm curious where that one will land.
  2. I suppose I'm expecting to see more automation and streamlining of daily processes? Also, hopefully, more environmentally sustainable technology.
  3. I don't think artificial relationships, in the current state of things today, are possible or healthy. Even if there was a consciousness to be found, there is too much of an inherent imbalance between one who can request interaction at any time and one who is engineered to respond at all times. It's definitely sad that loneliness might be deep enough today that this might feel like the only option, though.
craggy sandal
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Part 1
||The store set-up makes me think of a cartoon I liked as a child whose name I forgot about toys who couldn't find a buyer in a toy store. I suppose it's kind of the same thing here, in a way, though that feels wrong with sentient beings. Anyway, toys going unsold made me cry as a kid, to the point that I tried my hardest not to look at stuffed animal shelves so as not to "personally" make one feel rejection after I had seen it (I was a very sensitive child with a tendency to personify objects), so the same situation with thinking beings hits that much harder 🙁 ||
||It's sad how the old models seem to be ignored by customers in favor of the new models, and it's even a little cruel (though I suppose it's also a kindness) how innocent they seem about being demoted to "previous version". Feels like Manager wants them not to worry too much, but still subscribes to the law of profit.||
||I assume Josie has some kind of degenerative or chronic illness, and that's why she's in the market for an Artificial Friend that can support her unconditionally through it?||

craggy sandal
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Part 2
||So some kids get "lifted" (I assume it's some kind of physical augmentation?) and it's sometimes dangerous (I assume that's what caused the death of Josie's sister and also possibly what made her sick?)||
||It's odd how social interaction seems to be mandated and carefully orchestrated between kids (I assume mostly "lifted" kids since Rick didn't seem to count?) and also it is scored for some reason? I don't really understand that, and I don't think Klara is the best narrator to explain it either, since she isn't really given much information aside from the basics, and she mostly assumes things are just as they are and doesn't ask about them. I suppose that's quite natural, but still, I'm curious. Seems like Ishiguro is quite fond of this kind of setup where the narrator is fully immersed in what seems normal to them and then the reader discovers things slowly and quite organically, letting us assume, this is the second book of his I read that does this.||
||The whole waterfall scene seems extremely unhealthy, although I don't think I have enough information to explain just why it feels that way. The Mother asking Klara to imitate Josie feels cruel, just like it did in the first part. Is she imagining a "better" relationship with her child where she can be more honest with her? Or trying to reassure herself by talking with a "healthier" Josie or one who has faith in her recovery?||

craggy sandal
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Part 3
||Klara's plan of bargaining with the sun to save Josie is both adorable and heartbreaking. It feels like the logic a child would get to, and, well... I suppose it kind of is the same, because I don't think AFs are given many occasions to "grow up".||
||I'm curious about what Helen says she saw, too. Why would she have seen or imagined her neighbor and good friend trying to hold back someone who looks like her deceased child? Does it have anything to do with having a portrait taken, another way to memorialize her child through a kind of mimicry? (That is probably a completely wild theory, it just brushed my mind because of the Mother's having Klara act as her ailing daughter twice now. Maybe she's tried to deal with the grief of losing her other daughter in that way as well?)||
||Speaking of portraits, it feels kind of strange to make that such a priority for a severely ill child to have a portrait taken, especially since the artist seems to be so obviously a creep that two separate persons are worried about him. That makes me think it's a somewhat traditional part of the process or something the Mother values greatly, and is kind of ominous, to be honest.||

craggy sandal
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Part 4
||Klara realizing there is more than one machine causing pollution is heartbreaking, especially because she still thinks the sun could help Josie get better but didn't because of her not holding up her end of the bargain. I hope she doesn't believe it's still an attainable objective to destroy them all, because she already gave enough... I assume it's some kind of coolant? To damage herself, and it feels like she'd do it again without a second thought if she thought it would help. Sad also that she didn't seem to fear being damaged that much. I wonder how much self-preservation was trained into AFs.||
||The portrait thing feels kind of obvious in retrospect. The Mother clearly is not about healthy grief processing at all. And it clearly won't work, because, as good as Klara is at observing and mimicking, she doesn't have all of Josie's memories, experiences, feelings. Maybe she can appear to act like Josie for a while, but it will only make any moment of dissonance all the more jarring and painful to her loved ones.||
||Outside of the grief processing aspect that seems extremely dysfunctional, I don't think humans are just automatons that can be mimicked. Or, I suppose I do, but the amount of information needed for that is so important and so inaccessible that it's essentially the same, with the memory of every thought ever had, every interaction, every moment whose significance is only obvious to the person... I don't know. I suppose I don't believe in souls as a metaphysical thing, but maybe the agglomerate of experience that constitutes a person is an approximate in my thought process.||
||Also, and it's yet another aspect, no one is creating a new Josie from the ether or anything. It's Klara essentially being erased and rewritten as Josie 2.0. I suppose in that world, there isn't much thought about AF sentience, but we are reading Klara's PoV. We know she has thought processes of her own, feelings, loyalty. It's unfair to ask her to erase that.||

sterile cloakBOT
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🍅

craggy sandal
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Thanks, Carl.
Still Part 4 (hitting the word limit because I evidently have many thoughts about it)
||That said, the tensions around workers being replaced by machines (and having to leave in provided housing that seems to be inconvenient to others and insecure) is humming in the background, I suppose, but it's not really explored directly so far, and as a result it feels a bit tacked on, I think.||
||Similarly, the idea of genetically enhancing children at the potential cost of their health and considering those who haven't been operated on as essentially second class citizens is brought up but not really discussed in depth. Only its consequences, I suppose.||
||I guess both convey a somewhat secondary meaning of technological advances not necessarily helping erase inequalities, and in fact causing new ones to appear?||

craggy sandal
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Part 5-6
||Well, I'm glad Josie got better! I'm... Pretty sure the sun had little to do with it, but it is good for Klara to feel like she has helped. I don't think it'd help her to learn how arbitrary these kinds of things sometimes are.||
||Josie and Rick parting is sad but expected: not many people remain with their childhood sweetheart, especially if their interests diverge as they grow up. Though it's difficult to tell just how much the uplifting played a part in that.||
||Also, what do you mean "she deserves her slow fade"? You dump her in a junkyard and that's what she deserves? Yeah, okay... I suppose that makes sense if you view Klara as some kind of children's toy that has outlived its usefulness, but man, I don't get that callousness when you can and have talked to her...||
||I agree with Klara's conclusion on the "continuing Josie" plan, too. What I've said on part 4 + the fact that everyone would know that this isn't actually Josie, even if she is perfectly mimicked... It would never have worked.||
Final thoughts
||I really liked this book and the main questions it asked, about what it means to be a person, what makes an individual unique... It was quite emotional for me, and I really liked Klara's innocent and just a little strange narrative voice.||
||It felt like subject about the political climate, machines making workers obsolete and how that creates tension and the ethics of uplifting, because they weren't the main subject, were a little underdeveloped, posing only as background. Specifically the thing about Paul being in a violent and possibly authoritarian and ideologically radically dangerous group (???) felt like it was tacked on. It's said once and then basically forgotten?||

jolly parcel
craggy sandal
shut wasp
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I finally started this last night! I'm a little thrown off there aren't "chapters" but I'll do my best to gauge what section of the part i'm in i guess??

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Part 1 (~30 pgs) - || I have on clue what AF means (yet?) so it was confusing at first 🤣 . Klara's observations are so detailed like a humans! I find myself relating to her a lot because if I'm ever in one place for a while, I'll also just people watch. It's interesting that the Manager appreciates it instead of finding it as a fault. I'm about to reach the part where Josie visits a second time so I hope Josie "buys" Klara or however it works. ||

main palm
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This book is going to make me cry, isn't it? 🫤

visual perchBOT
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@red salmon,@jagged folio,@barren tinsel,@dreamy rover,@latent dock,@undone bloom,@paper fulcrum,@primal jasper,@jolly parcel,@sonic slate,@rose vessel,@main palm,@craggy sandal,@shut wasp,@sharp arrow,@vale fjord

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Hello everyone ! This buddy read finishes tomorrow. Is anyone still reading ?

visual perchBOT
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Something went wrong! Please try again later

red salmon
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Hello everyone, this BR finishes tomorrow ! Is anyone still reading ?

I also wanted to say that I'm very sorry for not being an active leader at all.

I've been having a hard time and I should have looked for someone to take this BR over instead of letting it rot.
Very sorry to everyone for this 🙏

I hope you still enjoyed reading this book if you read it !

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For finished readers, I have : Mzcookies, Pauline, Jpuzzle, Neufdepique

Please let me know if I'm missing someone !!

vale fjord
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yesss im still reading frogScream ill finish in time 🫡

jagged folio
main palm
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I finished yesterday evening. I will post some thoughts later today.

red salmon
red salmon
shut wasp
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I am still reading as well! I may need an extension but i'm going to try and finish it today 🙏

shut wasp
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i don't think i'll get to finishing today 🥲 . i did finish part 1 and 2! ||that little party freaked me out, was it like a party to force kids to socialize and learn social skills???? and why are they all so weird to Rick?? i felt so bad for Klara to have all these kids ask her to do stuff and her owner is putting on a facade to fit in. and when the Mother instead takes Klara up to the waterfall and then makes her act like Josie?? that was also weird, it's hard being a mother but i think that "lesson" could've been taught differently ||

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also - ||i have this thought that maybe they're all robots 😅 . the kids kept saying "lifted" and the adults kept pitying Rick like he was left behind or something. makes it sound like they're all modified in some way except for Rick ||

jagged folio
red salmon
robust sableBOT
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Don't worry, I will
make an extension as both
you and Minz need it <3

- bouinie_
red salmon
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NO HAIKU

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Arw

acoustic yoke
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BR extended!
<t:1764892800:D> - <t:1766102400:D>

visual perchBOT
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Ongoing BuddyRead
Klara and the Sun - Kazuo Ishiguro
Description

In Klara and the Sun, Kazuo Ishiguro looks at our rapidly changing modern world through the eyes of an unforgettable narrator to explore a fundamental question: what does it mean to love ? (?)

Ishiguro explores a great question and so will we ! What does it mean to love ? (?)

<3 ? (?)

Start Date

<t:1759622400:D>

End Date

<t:1766102400:D>

Thread(s)

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Requested By

@red salmon

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@red salmon(0)

Interested (16)

@red salmon,@jagged folio,@barren tinsel,@dreamy rover,@latent dock,@undone bloom,@rough ivy,@primal jasper,@jolly parcel,@sonic slate,@rose vessel,@main palm,@craggy sandal,@shut wasp,@sharp arrow,@vale fjord

Event ID: 68d519d4434992b6b8d3f53a
acoustic yoke
shut wasp
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i'm going to try and finish this weekend 🙏 i'm currently halfway through part 3

main palm
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Final Thoughts: ||This was a strange book. There was so much complicated subject matter that was never fully addressed, or if it was, it was from an immature viewpoint of the AF. I found myself contemplating the issues the book presented more than the actual plot. The ones that stood out to me:

  1. To have your child lifted or not. This is never really explained but obviously the process to have a child lifted doesn't come without risk, but there is risk in not being lifted too. I can't imagine how difficult this decision would be for a parent. I found it very interesting when Helen indicated she regretted not having Rick lifted.
  2. The deity aspect between the sun and Klara was so interesting. As the reader you see the coincidences for what they are but in Klara's eyes each coincidence solidified her belief and hope. And her hope was contagious to the people around her. They expected she had some secret knowledge. It was so interesting to explore this in this book.
  3. The fascist that Josie's dad belonged to. Why wasn't there more about this? Communities of people that society left behind have to defend themselves against other communities.

Overall I enjoyed the book. I loved the part when Klara was in the crowd after having some of her fluid drained to destroy the machine. There was all this stuff going on and the writing was so good it made the reader feel as disoriented as Klara. It was so well done.||

red salmon
shut wasp
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i'm still on part three and i'm so confused ||Is Klara trying to get to the bard to get optimal sunlight for Josie??? And i'm confused on the phrasing Klara uses when she says "boxes". is that her vision? i'm scared for Klara, the conversation with Rick's mom was weird, like she wanted Klara to tutor Rick in maths and science but now she just wants Klara to convince Josie to convince Rick to apply to Atlas Brookings ||

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update: ||Klara thought the sun rested in the barn 😭 . that's so sweet but so sad ||

shut wasp
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i just finished part three: || i feel like there are so many ways this book could move forward and it's frightening me lol. i love the housekeeper for also agreeing with Rick that the photographer is a creep, but I'm afraid that Klara won't be able to step in in time if something happens. And what is this about Helen seeing Chrissie strangle (?) someone that looked like Sal 2 years ago? there's so much going on I don't know where to look! It's also interesting to me that despite Klara being Josie's AF and this marketing of AFs being there for you, Klara doesn't really do much nor do they ask her to? Klara is just kind of wallflower all the time and silently makes observations and I'm not sure if that's because Josie and her family don't really utilize her or if that's Klara's capabilities. ||

jolly parcel
jagged folio
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starting this todayyyy

jagged folio
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10% || I'm amazed by Klara's observing skills . I can't help but notice the gaslighting they are doing whenever she observes and ask questions like " is this normal? Did you notice it too?". Aren't people same ? They try to gaslight you into thinking everything is fine around you and you are just overthinking. I think Rosa represents those people . It really struck to me .
Feeling so bad for the fella boy robot and how they refused to give him a chance cuz of his technical problems .
I think Josie will be Klara's companion . What's wrong with her ? Why is she talking in circles ?
The robot companion concept I read before was in " Annie bot " and now I'm reading this book which was written before it . ||
I'm glad I'm finally reading something other than cozy/healing/ cafe/cat monotonous books from Japanese literature. I have high hopes .

jagged folio
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38%
Part 1 , 2✅
||What was that kids harassing Klara scene all about ? It was unacceptable and unbearable. Why didn't Josie stop them ?

so Uhm...the mother really weirds me out .
The whole "Klara ,act like Josie" scene was sooo uncomfortable. And when she said - I accepted you after you did the Josie walk in the store blinkWhat
Idk if the mother has bipolar disorder or what . Both Josie and her are very mysterious and we still don't know about sal . What happened to her? How she died ? And Josie's illness is more what we think .

Then a large woman whose shape resembled the food blending machine
Food blending machine woman 😅?

What’s important,’ the food blending woman said, ‘is that this next generation learn how to be comfortable with every sort of person. That’s what Peter always says.’ Then as other voices murmured in agreement, she asked the Mother: ‘Did his folks just…decide not to go ahead? Lose their nerve?’

I didn't understand this scene . What were they talking about ?

must be nice sometimes to have no feelings. I envy you.’I considered this, then said: ‘I believe I have many feelings. The more I observe, the more feelings become available to me.’She laughed unexpectedly, making me start. ‘In that case,’ she said, ‘maybe you shouldn’t be so keen to observe.’

I think that house is not a good place for Klara ...they are just abusing her . ||

jagged folio
jagged folio
shut wasp
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part 4 - ||I was NOT expecting Josie's "portrait" to actually be A SCULPTURE??? WITH THE INTENTION OF HAVING KLARA "BE" JOSIE AFTER SHE DIES????? that's lowkey so fucked up. that makes so much more sense why Chrissie is so weird around Klara and sometimes loving towards her and sometimes so cold. she's probably trying to grapple the internal emotions on if that comes true. but still, to love your child so much that you'd be willing to replace them so they continue "living" is so messed up. death is natural and it fucking sucks to have your child leave before you, but humans die in the end and that's the cycle of life. if Klara "replaces" Josie, Josie never grows old so what happens when Chrissie dies? that scene caught me so off guard. and Helen is still so fucking weird. she calls this meeting with her ex to try and get Rick into school, and when Vance calls her out on her behavior, she starts pleading and trying to apologize?????? what was their relationship like because neither party seem good in this case. And Klara completes her mission, but I am still afraid what's going to happen if Josie doesn't get better and Klara realizes it was all for naught. and she had to sacrifice some of herself too! and I thought Paul was the most rational man in the entire story so far but I thought he was living in like a retirement home this entire time, instead, he's part of a militia????? so much is happening||

sonic slate
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New day, new book Ig
Idk why I’m being so fickle and starting so many omg

jagged folio
shut wasp
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part 5- ||I was a little disappointed that the sun did "cure" Josie but I almost think it wasn't because of the sun, but rather Chrissie's love for Josie and the acceptance of that. Josie's illness feels like a metaphor for her relationship with her mom. Like this entire time, she loves Josie, but she also sees Josie as her own achievement in progress? And I think that's why she has such a hard time accepting Josie might actually die before she does (hence why they got Mr. Capaldi to do the "portrait" and testing Klara to see if she can mimic Josie). Chrissie is always trying to provide for Josie with all the available resources and opportunities, but it doesn't quite feel like "love". There's definitely moments of love, but overall, I don't think Chrissie quite loved Josie. And the illness is Josie trying to keep up with the pressure for her mom's expectations. This metaphor kind of comes out when Chrissie asks Rick "if he thinks he's the winner" or something. Chrissie has the money to provide that Helen didn't, but Rick is the one who's healthy.||

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part 6 - ||It's sad that the AF is only present until the child goes to college. Presumably, they sent Klara to the junkyard some time after where Manager found her. The verbiage seems like AFs were phased out but I wonder if they've just moved on to much more advanced models that aren't mentioned. It's such a bittersweet ending imo, Klara joins the family but was never really part of the family and after her role is done, she's cast aside. But I do think she's learned what it means to love and she's right, Capaldi was wrong to think that nothing inside Josie couldn't be replicated. Because you can never replicate the human impulsivity and complexity of emotions and feelings. ||

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overall - i'm happy i read this book. i was a little lost in the beginning and maybe the first half of the book, but part 4-6 really brought it together for me. and overall, i think the biggest thing the book has shown is the ||wide range of emotions humans have and complexities it carries in our thoughts and actions. it's hard to explain what it's like to be human. and I think the book does a good job of portraying how contradictory feelings can be, compared to our actions. a lot of it is out of love, platonic, romantic, familial love, but it can be so difficult to describe and experience that even to the human being, it winds up being messy when we say or do things we don't mean.||

jagged folio
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53%
|| Both Josie and the mother are very complex characters to me .
I don't think Rick is wrong , Josie is indeed pushing his boundaries . Enraging a person and then acting like you did nothing is pure ragebaiting and bad behaviour . I think there must be another reason Rick isn't going . And what promise Josie and Rick were talking about ? I guess we get to know it in future
I still can't understand the linked unlinked thing .
Now that the theory of sal being alive, emerging out of nowhere lol .

I’m surprised someone would desire so much a path that would leave her in loneliness.’ ‘And that’s what surprises you?’‘Yes. Until recently, I didn’t think that humans could choose loneliness. That there were sometimes forces more powerful than the wish to avoid loneliness.’
This book is moving more like mystery genre kekCry I need answers lol||

sonic slate
# jagged folio Literally me 😭I can't refuse br requests cuz" yesss this that book on my tbr to...

Oh, I think I’ve gotten quite better at that lately…leaving BRs I genuinely have no time for but I GET you!! It’s often so tempting frogScream

My current issue is that no one book is holding my attention enough and I don’t want to fall back into a slump so I’m just jumping around starting multiple hoping something will grasp enough attention of mine unfortunately (not that my current reads are boring or anything, quite the contrary but it’s a mood thing)

sonic slate
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My audiobook doesn’t really have clear chapter markers, just says Part 1 but not chapter-specific so I’ll be going with %

8% in
||The world feels so familiar yet unfamiliar in a very Ishiguro way. It feels almost bleak and I’m hoping this one’s lighter than the other works, or at least, less depressing. I like the way Klara’s ‘observations’ speak volumes and we’re still getting to know the characters. Rosa seems clueless but Ig it’s the model (?) Like maybe Clara is able to sense a lot more for that reason. Still a lot unknown ||

shut wasp
dreamy rover
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Starting this one

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Start of part 1: || I wonder what they are and how they are different from the others. ||

red salmon
# jagged folio 38% Part 1 , 2✅ ||What was that kids harassing Klara scene all about ? It was...

Late to the party but....

|| Mother: ‘Did his folks just…decide not to go ahead? Lose their nerve?’

I didn't understand this scene . What were they talking about ?

They were talking about Rick not being lifted so not being genetic enhanced = being less smart than the others kids. Josie is sick because of her lifting ( hinted at very early on) which is a big risk associated with lifting. Here, the mothers question if Rick's parents were scared of him getting sick and " lost their nerves" in doing the ' right choice' ||

red salmon
# shut wasp part 6 - ||It's sad that the AF is only present until the child goes to college....

I hear where you're coming from || but I also think Ishiguro is trying to portrait the growing disposability and obsolescence of our possessions here and writing the junkyard scene perfectly fits that agenda, offering us the pdv of " junk". And...klara is satisfied ? She no longer wishes to pursue life and maybe our pdv as humans and ever-seeking creatures view this as bittersweet but she's happy there ||

jagged folio
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74 % ✅

sonic slate
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Sharing thoughts on Part 2 before I forget to! Currently on part 3
||I like how revealing Klara's observations are so far and in some parts feel a bit icky too like when Josie's mum has her 'pretend' to be Josie and all. That whole bit was soooooo ugh feeling, the way she just orders her daughter out for hiding sickness and takes Klara instead to prove some friggin point that adults have feelings too? Like ugh

The whole kids socialising felt quite reminiscent of the usual social classes and cues and how they sort of outcasted Rick and basically look down on him, openly ridiculing him and Josie's behaviour around them was surprising but not unexpected of someone trying to fit in. I get how Klara's viewpoint is basically social commentary of the world they're in. I adoooore her relationship with the sun though and how she sees it as this big ball of healing positive energy or something as it reminds me of someone I know||

sonic slate
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Part 3!
||Ooooh, Rick's mum definitely seems interesting. So Sel's alive? What's going on? Josie's mum did some a bit odd but I can't make sense of her doing wrong to her kids, like why?||

sonic slate
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Done with Part 3 ||and I’m kinda loving how we’re progressing but also a tad bit scared of what’s to come because it’s just building up so much! I feel sad for Klara making a whole deal with the sun and being all ´I have a plan’ because I can definitely see the end to that||

shut wasp
jagged folio
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i have third last exam today , so i'll complete the book on my way back home

dreamy rover
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End of Part 1 || okay i’m confused! That mother is so weird! I liked how klara observed little things. ||

sonic slate
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Part 4
||I high-key suspect what Klara’s being told isn’t the whole truth. Or at least, it won’t be the whole truth when it comes to play. I mean I feel sick, having Klara pretend-play Josie, embody a body that’s made to replicate Josie and completely lose her persona and become Josie? I mean she’s a machine but I would rather have a loved one die and grieve the loss, their presence and everything than knowingly have a mock up version of theirs around. I love how much emphasis there is on ‘the sun’ ‘healing’ and ‘hope’ and the complexities of humans that is being explored throughout. Even Rick’s mum trying to get a favour out of an ex-lover like that… like it makes me feel sad for her and experience Rick’s mortification at the whole ordeal.|| Onto Part 5 now

sonic slate
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Part 5
||Aww, how smart of Rick to understand the snide remarks weren’t for him but her own personal anguish of having perhaps chosen wrong for her daughter and then relaying the very message she needed to hear||

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Part 6
||Aww, it’s kinda funny and whimsical as well Josie healing with the sun further cementing Klara’s belief in its powers but at the same time, a strong part of me does believe in it too because of my own personal experience. I also loved the conversation Rick & Klara had. He’s way too mature and smart for his age imo||

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And done!!

jagged folio
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I'm back home . I'll continue reading !!

jagged folio
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85 % done

jagged folio
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okayyy completed !!

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i'll eat something and then write all my thoughts

jagged folio
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part 4 was my favorite and i think , there was alot to think while i was reading it

sonic slate
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Final thoughts! (Typing for hours, never completing them lol)
||This was surprisingly nice? I mean having experienced another work of his, I was really expecting a distressing depressing read and was pleasantly surprised that things seemed to have turned out just fine, at least for the humans. Klara’s end was definitely sad but I choose to not attach sentimental importance to her and imagine her to be just like I would another machine for my own sanity and peace lol. I definitely loved the explorations into human psyche and behaviour, the way this was done through mere observations and commentary from a sort of ‘outsider’. I’d predicted a horrible end for Klara tbh and while the actual end’s terrible too, at least Josie and Rick get something, even if it’s just a chance to grow and survive a bleak world (to bots like Klara at least). I’ve rated this a 4 for while I couldn’t really pick a flaw or find anything distasteful as such, books I rate 5 generally evoke a certain feeling in me which this one failed to||

jagged folio
jagged folio
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final thoughts : || the setting of the book made me realize that time is not far when people will start to having AF like we have AI chatbots now .It was very interesting to read about complex human life from the perspective of robot . i noticed some scenes where i , as a human , was able to understand what happened while in some i was as confused as klara ( i think i felt disconnected most of the time ) . I think , this was the part of storytelling ? as a robot cannot comprehend human emotions like humans . Even tho the author has tried his best to tell us again and again that klara is "more human-like" , she is indeed not . Maybe this is one of the disadvantages of ai? There was something missing ..i can't pinpoint what it was , but the book felt hollow . I feel like there was only some glimpses of all characters from klara's pov , we never fully get to know the characters , maybe this was the frustrating part for me. but then , isn't life like this too? we don't get to know all people fully . The storyline went like , yea a little bit of this , a little bit of that . they were moving on from the topics tooo quickly! i got exicted when they talked about unfair treatment , classicim environmental issues and inequality , but there were barely any paragraph on them . it was like i was trying to gather bits of info and trying to make sense of them . Yes , it felt weird , when they told christine was preparing klara to train like josie, i could have different prespective if i read it a year ago , but now as i quote about that twitter ad of a family feeding ai memories of the grandma and to be like her so that after her death the family can still connect with her , i feel this will be normalized in upcoming years . as klara kept emphasizing that she can't be josie , she can't replicate her . we need to understand this too . " Death and letting things go and moving on phenomena " exists for a reason, it makes us human to think things aren't forever. ||

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About the characters : || My favorite one was rick !! I was not able to understand his mother's character but i can feel the desperation of both mothers trying the best of their children . I was interested to know more about josie's father character . we never got to know what his thoughts and values were cuz both christine and paul were just trying to silence each other and MISSCOUMMUNICATIONNNN . like plz talk and let me know what are you guys trying to say, it's so hard to comprehend the conversation when they keep interpeting each other ||about the ending || i feel it was very realistic . i did feel sad for klara being abandoned in the yard but then it was her fate . Her mission to help josie was completed , since josie survived , klara had to endup there . Another thing highlighting the nature of humans that they dump the things when they use them , as klara was no longer needed when she completed her mission . ||

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rating : 3/5 , this was my first ishiguro book , wasn't a great experience but i do want to explore more of his work .

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i also got to know he wrote this novel for children as first but then changed it into adult fiction as it discussed heavy themes

vale fjord
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finished this a couple days ago ||i think that i would enjoy this more on the next read, since there are some scenes thatd be nice to revisit on a second reading, eg the first time josies mom comes to the store and while the manager praises klaras capabilities, the only thing the mother tests is her ability to mimic josie and she does this again when we get to morgan falls then you learn about the josie doll and its just crazy
• really liked klara and rick, and how they loved josie, obviously her mother loved her too but klara and rick kind of never gave up on josie? but the mom kind of had, and i think it was her way of coping, i dont think she was coping with josie's illness or coming death, but rather with the loss of sal - i feel like her preparing this josie doll was kind of like her preparing and protecting herself from the loss of another daughter, which as said, she wouldnt be able to survive
• really perceptive of rick to respond to her lashing out at him with a reminder that josie loved her, i thought it was a great scene, highlighting both the mothers real grief and rick's unwavering belief in josie
• i felt sooo bad for klara sacrificing herself for only one of these machines but it was so great of her, like she started wanting to know more abt the world and ended with trying to change the world for this girl
• i was also thinking when all those kids came over and klara was struggling with how to move forward, about the AFs in this world like why do people get them? what are they for? companionship must be a reason since the name is Artificial Friend but if this is the case then its really interesting that the one thing these AFs dont come with is like emotional and social intelligence, like surely if you want a companion the most important thing youd want is some kind of emotional understanding but then again its probably that AF is just a nice sounding way of saying robot that works for me
• sorry vance didnt help rick but i kinda stand w him||

visual perchBOT
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@red salmon,@jagged folio,@barren tinsel,@dreamy rover,@latent dock,@undone bloom,@paper fulcrum,@primal jasper,@jolly parcel,@sonic slate,@rose vessel,@main palm,@craggy sandal,@shut wasp,@sharp arrow,@vale fjord

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Hello everyone ! This BR ended two days ago. Thank you for joining it, I hope you enjoyed the read :)

For the finished readers, I have : Mzcookies, Pauline, Jpuzzle, Neufdepique, Minz, Hanzy, snow_mil, Ulysses, Vaydium

Please let me know if I'm missing someone. Will be sending the report shortly otherwise !