#Children of Dune - Frank Herbert

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fringe yokeBOT
fringe yokeBOT
supple valley
#

Woohoo!!! We made it!

dusky zenith
#

I was a little hesitant to to join since it's been a little under a year since I read this.

supple valley
#

That’s fair. I can post a synopsis for Dune Messiah if that would help

dusky zenith
#

oh that won't be necessary, I also reread Dune and Dune Messiah last year as well. Dune's my favorite book and I've read it 6 times now and Dune Messiah twice.

supple valley
#

Awesome! It’ll all come back to you! I’ll do a formal announcement tonight everyone

wheat phoenix
fringe yokeBOT
#

@supple valley,@thin shale,@somber marsh,@hushed breach,@verbal pewter,@calm sage,@stable solstice,@wheat phoenix,@alpine kraken,@dusky zenith,@restive plank,@civic wagon,@young hornet,@tall widget

calm sage
#

Looks like there was a mishap with the spoilers

I plan to start reading sometime this month, and I don’t know who my favorite character is at this point.

#

Irulan, I guess? Previously it was Jessica ||but she was gone from Messiah and idk if she’ll be back||

supple valley
#

Grrrr

#

Reposting my broadcast here

Welcome to the buddy read for Children of Dune! Reminder to everyone to use spoiler bars whenever discussing events in this book, or events in Dune or Dune Messiah, just in case.

Content warnings from StoryGraph:
Graphic ||Violence, Death, Murder||
Moderate ||Suicide, Incest, Body Horror||
Minor ||Adult/minor relationship, War, Kidnapping||
So ya know, the usual

To get us started, tell us when you're planning to start reading, and who your favorite character is. Happy Reading!

supple valley
wheat phoenix
#

Frank being a weird little shit is getting old fast I'm not gonna lie

#

I'm starting to feel like he would get tuned up if he published these books today and he was finna walk down any public street

supple valley
#

Yeah just like George RR Martin

thin shale
#

haha that's a great point

#

I was going to say there's a difference between an author putting something in their book, and their condoning that thing or participating in that thing, whatever it is

#

totally fair if it makes you uncomfortable though, that's absolutely reasonable and why trigger warnings exist

#

I defs have things that I prefer not to read

wheat phoenix
#

like, I haven't read a song of ice and fire but presumably the characters who do the creepy shit aren't supposed to be the good characters

thin shale
#

I kind of get from Herbert that he portrays it as a matter of fact, like in this universe these things happen, it is not unheard of for these things to happen and this is a fantasy (or sci fi) world with different social mores and behaviours, so maybe what's unacceptable to us is not to the characters in the book

wheat phoenix
#

Yeah but like, I get no hint of anything that makes me think Frank gets that that's weird

#

and something like ||"Yo brah you gotta fuck your sister who's half your age"|| (Dune Messiah spoiler) is NOT plot relevant in any way

thin shale
#

hm, it kind of was plot relevant though given that the Bene Gesserit's whole schtick is this breeding program that they've spent centuries developing and have actively worked to maintain and develop

#

so to the Bene Gesserit, this is the means to the end and doesn't seem like an untoward thing, I think

wheat phoenix
#

also the thing with the ghola

thin shale
#

I have no idea what the gif means in the context of this convo kek

wheat phoenix
#

Like if Frank wanted to include that stuff, a normal author would have just fast forwarded 3 years so she's 18

#

and it would've made no other difference

wheat phoenix
#

I'm saying ||The Duncan thing is fucking creepy||

thin shale
#

I just think it's a stretch to go from "something happens in this book" to "the author is a pedophile," you know?

wheat phoenix
#

I didn't say he was a pedophile

#

I'm saying he's weird and ||duncan idaho is totally a pedophile||

thin shale
#

fair enough, it seems like we're not going to come to agreement haha and that's totally fine

wheat phoenix
#

it's also like, chortle inducing hilarious that Frank really went "NO GUYS IT'S NOT WEIRD BECAUSE LIKE SHE'S PHYSICALLY 15 BUT MENTALLY IT'S-"

supple valley
#

Staying out of this one except to say that ||it is different because of Alia’s mental state. Doesn’t make it ok|| eta: I did not in fact stay out of it lmao

wheat phoenix
supple valley
#

Idk what that is

thin shale
#

I was going to point out that it's an interesting question, how old Alia is and how to conceive of her, since she is both an old woman with a ton of experiences and memories, and a fifteen year old, and that definitely complicates the situation like tink says

supple valley
#

But don’t you think it’s possible that Frank is making a statement about ||Alia and how she’s ostracized from every normal formulating milestone or social group that most people would have growing up, and that’s reflected in her relationships?|| funny that you say the characters in GoT who engage in those activities are all bad guys, cause they aren’t, they’re complex characters who have complex motivations. That’s what makes it good

wheat phoenix
#

also in general most of the shit with her from Frank is just Weird with a capital W like ||pointing out that Alia remembers having sex with her father as her mother||, why did we need to know that Frank?

#

I didn't want to know that

supple valley
wheat phoenix
#

I'm just questioning why Frank points stuff like that all the time

thin shale
#

right, isn't that Alia trying to explore and make sense of her very unique and unorthodox situation?

wheat phoenix
#

and this is like only half of why Frank is weird

#

the other half is he made the entire Dune series to explain why he doesn't like Muslims kekcry

thin shale
#

that I can't speak to, so I'ma go back to work haha

wheat phoenix
#

Fair

#

But like that's why they call it a Jihad and why there's multiple of them mentioned, or like with certain descriptions of the Fremen

#

that was pretty much the point of the first few books for him

#

which is weird

#

and kind of Yikes

supple valley
#

I thought he started to write a series of articles about the shrinking desert dunes of Northern California/Oregon, never finished, did mushrooms, and then turned his research into novels about little space messiahs who got too big for their britches and decided mixing politics and religion was a good idea

wheat phoenix
#

Frank was actually very learned about Islam, iirc he read and wrote Arabic, and a lot of the anti radicalized religion elements are pretty much just him talking about Muslims in a sometimes not cool way

thin shale
#

I would love to read more about this, do you have sources or things that you recommend I look at?

wheat phoenix
# thin shale I would love to read more about this, do you have sources or things that you rec...

https://inkstickmedia.com/erasing-arabs-from-dune/ this is a good one that I liked, I literally cannot find most of the articles I read because the internet got drowned out in 2021 with articles about the movie and I can't find anything about the books anymore catSadKitten

Inkstick
Erasing Arabs from “Dune”

First off, let me say I love “Dune.” I’ve read Frank Herbert’s books repeatedly over the past 30 years. I first read “Dune” simultaneously with “The Prize” by Daniel Yergin, the most complete real world historical account of the political economy of oil. These are books that shaped me and led me to my current […]

thin shale
#

thanks for sharing this, I will take a look at it!

supple valley
supple valley
#

Starting today cause why not

#

Ch 1 “muad’dib’s teachings have become…” ||Fuck I forgot the twins are only 9 omg glad they acknowledged that Stilgar and Chani were related, I thought I had hallucinated that for a long time. I forgot Stilgar spends third chapter seriously contemplating killing the twins. While that would have changed the future, I don’t think it’s possible to put the Atreides genie back in the bottle||

supple valley
#

Ch 3 “The sietch at the desert’s rim…” ||Herbert is so good at writing Alia, it drives me crazy. The complexity, the loneliness, wanting her mother but also being resentful of all the time she’s been away. She’s so similar to the twins, but isolated by necessity of her position of authority. If it was just one child, she might have found some solace, but the twins always have each other. Irulan is probably a support, but not really on her level. And I think we have to wait to see how she and Duncan interact beyond just mentat/regent relationship||

#

Ch 4 “melange (me’-lange… ||just now learning you can pronounce it me-lange or me-lanj, how did I not know that? omg also the first Fremen Mahdi 👀. Oh yeah and evil plots to kill the twins||

tall widget
#

I stopped the book after 'that' scene..
the incessant scheming and inner monologues sobAUGH
The book is getting little dense for me.. catcri

supple valley
#

What scene?

tall widget
somber marsh
tall widget
supple valley
dusky zenith
#

lol

young hornet
somber marsh
#

I’m worried now

supple valley
#

It can’t be that bad

calm sage
#

My bestie picked this one for me to start, and given that Brian Herbert’s introduction calls it “Frank Herbert at the top of his craft”, I’m excited

supple valley
#

It really is so good

calm sage
#

My new prof saw that I was reading this and it defo bought me some points with him

wheat phoenix
#

Points are always good

calm sage
#

Chapter 1/“Muad’Dib’s teachings have become…”.

||The desert shrinking had to have impacted spice production in a way that’s either been not mentioned or that I forgor||

supple valley
calm sage
supple valley
#

I don’t remember either, maybe I’m just expanding based on inference

dusky zenith
#

I don't believe they did in Messiah. At least nothing directly.

fair agateBOT
#

I don't believe they
did in Messiah. At least
nothing directly.

- cgee3
calm sage
#

I know I said this during the Dune BR about Alia, but Ghanima and Leto-the-Sequel also sound like this to me (artist credit: Verbal Vomit)

p8ii78jd87f21.png
#

Chapter 3/ "-From a Fremen Song": ||I forgot that Gurney doesn't know that they're also Harkonnen. That's got some heavy drama loaded up and ready to go||

calm sage
#

Chapter 6/“I give you the desert chameleon…”- ||THAT’S almost the conversation I was looking for. The sand trout conversation||

calm sage
#

Chapter 9/“-The Pedant Heresy”- ||I WAS WONDERING WHEN IRULAN’S SISTERS WOULD SHOW UP||

supple valley
calm sage
#

Idk that’s just the vibe I’m getting for now

supple valley
#

Oooo no you’re totally right

calm sage
#

Chapter 11/“I hear the wind…”- ||Aw hell, Baron Harkonnen. There is no way this is going to end well for ANYONE. Also, where has Duncan been so far? He’s only been name-dropped and sent to Sietch Tabr.

“My death was an accident beyond my design” it was not an accident and we all know it.||

calm sage
#

Reading this and Interview With the Vampire back-to-back is a weird ||”I may look like I’m less than 10 but in every other aspect I’m very much not a child”|| double-feature

calm sage
#

Chp 17/“I will not argue…”- ||I feel bad for Stilgar. Dude’s been through so much, then the son of Your Best Dude says “Well my options are to kill my grandma, marry my sister, or undeify my dad”||

thin shale
#

I started this! Chapter 1: ||"Goverment and religion united, and breaking a law became sin. A smell of blasphemy arose like smoke around any questioning of governmental edicts. The guilt of rebellion invoked hellfire and self-righteous judgments. Yet it was men who created these governmental edicts."||

#

This theme of the tensions/relationships between religion and government is a really interesting one and I think this quote gets right to the heart of that tension, which is cool

somber marsh
#

im excited to begin

thin shale
#

Chapter 2: I like the twins! They are really interesting and I'm looking forward to learning a bit more about their motivations. ||Also, Paul might be alive and wandering the desert as some kind of prophet? I'm luke-warm on that but we'll see||

somber marsh
thin shale
#

And Chapter 3, we get a little bit from Alia, her ||frustrations about not being able to see the future and her confidence that she would be able to handle that power even when Paul couldn't. You sure about that Alia?||

#

looking forward to learning what Jessica is up to, I really liked her in the first book

#

oh also in Chapter 3 we get a ||really succinct summary of the Bene Gesserit breeding program, and how Jessica, Paul, and Alia all slot in to the Bene Gesserit plan (or not, as the case may be), which I appreciate. Nice little refresher.||

thin shale
#

16% through, the chapter that starts with "Leto's Vow" - so far this is pretty handily my favorite Dune book. I'm not sure if I'm just getting used to Herbert's style or if he's being a little bit less opaque in this book, but I'm finding all the elements of the plot really compelling. ||Leto having prescience but not his sister, Irulan's sister trying to make her son emperor, and most interestingly, Alia's internal struggle to control the onslaught of voices and personalities within her. This internal alliance with the Baron Harkonnen? I did not see this coming and I think it's a really fun twist.||

#

I'm also interested in the mystery of Jacurutu. What happened there, and how is it relevant to the plot of the book? Looking forward to keeping on with this one.

somber marsh
#

🫃

#

I will begin shortly

supple valley
#

Uh huh, sure

#

But I think you’ll like it, this one has ||jessica||

somber marsh
#

YESSSS

#

I LIVE FOR ||JESSICA||

calm sage
#

Chapter 23/ “This is the fallacy of power”- || I spent 242 pages waiting for the “if the worms go, the spice goes too”. Jessica was also absolutely girlbossing this chapter||

#

||Atreides men sure love to haunt the narrative, dead or missing||

calm sage
#

Chapter 28/“Governments, if they endure…”- ||Wensicia: “Oh no! The leopard I raised to eat faces ate my face!”||

supple valley
#

Lolololol

thin shale
#

I am 30% through, but I've lost track of the chapter numbers. Some of the things I'm really vibing on: ||

  • reflections on what happens when a person knows the future and becomes locked into that future, which reminded me of The Left Hand of Darkness by Le Guin and the idea in that book that the only reason we keep living is to find out what happens next

  • what it means to concentrate power, and what strategies might be used to keep hold of that power (Alia's chapter around the 30% mark summarizes this point pretty plainly, which I liked)

  • related, the tensions between the possibility of a kind of open-market liberalism in which competition drives technological and sometimes social advancement, and a more centralized form of governance that tends to keep tighter control on innovation and leverage it for the power of the state. I personally am not a full-fledged economic liberal but I see how you might position free-market liberalism as an ideal alternative to high degrees of market/state/social control

  • also the question of what it might mean to govern humanely or ethically, rather than with an emphasis on control||

#

this book reflects some of its historical Americanism, there is some reflection on centralization of power as a thing to be avoided or rejected, and on a shift away from tradition as the primary guiding factor in social and political life

#

I think it's really interesting

#

I feel like my thoughts above aren't particularly well articulated so sorry for that to anyone who tries to sift through them haha

thin shale
#

33%, I like all the ||strategies that the twins are using to try to explain themselves to the adults in their lives, to make these adults truly understand what it is to be pre-born||

thin shale
#

50%, the plot of this book is a lot faster paced than the previous two and I am very invested. ||Ghamina is a badass and I love her. I find it interesting that she was able to fully convince herself that her brother had died to the tiger attack. Alia is fully lost to Baron Harkonnen now, and Duncan is doing the bidding of the Preacher? Not what I expected at all. I'm interested to see how Jessica's interactions with Farad'n et al. go||

#

Lots of reflection on the notion of government in this book, which is pretty much my whole jam, so that's fun

calm sage
#

Chapter 36/"We can still remember..."- ||Fascinating how Alia's first thought about Duncan going to Salusa is "he knows about the infidelity" NOT about her being possessed by Baron Harkonnen||

calm sage
#

Chapter 40/"O Paul..."- ||I knew a betrothal was coming, but I thought it was going to be more like the medieval "We know she's 9, this is us calling dibs for when she's older", rather than what's implied||

calm sage
#

Chapter 45/"One small bird..."- ||I wanna know how many people read the 'adult beefswelling' part, said "Frank, this is unnecessary", and were told 'no i'm not cutting it'||

dusky zenith
calm sage
#

I have about 140 pages left (out of 605), so my goal is to finish it tomorrow

#

I wonder how long ||Jessica spent training Farad'n. I know it says months, but like was it more than a year? Less than eight months?||

calm sage
#

Alright, I finished. Hoooo boy I need a minute for that ending

thin shale
#

Oh interesting, I'm gonna try to power through to the end this weekend

calm sage
#

I think I might just copy-paste what I wrote in the Notes app, because my thoughts were scattered and it would be a wall of text (still will be, but a bullet point version).

#

Final thoughts, disjointed||
-Generational trauma/cycle of abuse (Alia “I figured it out on my own, so can the twins”)
-Alia’s struggle and possession by Baron Harkonnen as a metaphor for mental health struggles (the twins know and worked with it, they can also talk to each other about it. Alia had no one and suppressed it, leading to destruction)
-The nature of power and how to keep it. Very nice.
-I want to spray Frank Herbert with a squirt bottle and say “STOP BEING WEIRD”.
-Alia killing Baron Harkonnen again was expected but her suicide and Paul’s Death For Real This Time were….underwhelming.
-I went back and looked, I misinterpreted it but keeping this note for posterity- ((So Alia was clearly pregnant with (probably Jarvid’s kid) but with the time skips, what happened there? Abortion? Miscarriage? Actually had the kid and hid it away which becomes a Plot Point in God Emperor?))
-I wish the time skips had been actually labeled with times instead of just vague months. Like, that could be 2, or it could be 9, or like a few years but in the same way parents say babies are ‘24 months’. Are Leto-the-Sequel and Ghanima pre-teens now? Adults? Still 9?
-I think my stance on Paul’s kids marrying each other is “I find it distasteful but understand the in-universe why, and I’m only not totally grossed-out because the union won’t produce offspring. But also, why not insist Farad’n become an Atreides, declare the kids Leto-the-Sequel’s heirs, and leave himself open to marry into a different house as a political play like Leto Original?”||

#

Oh and also ||I don’t believe Duncan’s going to stay dead. The axolotl tanks remade him once, he could be remade again||

supple valley
#

Noooo we need Frank to be weird

#

I never got that ||Alia was pregnant, I’ll have to look for that this time around||

#

Yeah ||they went all Targaryen but not full Targaryen||. Love your comments though, amazing!

dusky zenith
#

I’ll definitely read Alia chapters more closely when I start my reread.

supple valley
#

Yeah same

calm sage
#

It was mentioned in the chapter ||where she was going over reports, after Leto became part sandtrout I think? I don’t have the copy nearby, but it was something like “swelling just beginning to show”||

#

Just that once, as a blink-and-you-miss-it

calm sage
#

OKAY NO I INTERPRETED IT INCORRECTLY

#

I took ||”plumpness beginning to bulge” as pregnancy, not fat like the Baron was|| because sometimes authors are coy about it and my line of thinking was ||”Okay Frank ‘Adult Beefswelling’ Herbert. Alia, who is also known as the Womb of Heaven, is ‘plump with a bulge’ after having a Non-Clone lover for months.”||

dusky zenith
#

lol wtf

#

Oh, that was your thinking.

#

I could see how you interpreted that though.

supple valley
#

My thought was ||Bene Gesserit don’t get pregnant unless they want to, but who knows if that always applies||

calm sage
supple valley
#

Exactly lmao

fringe yokeBOT
#

@supple valley,@thin shale,@somber marsh,@hushed breach,@verbal pewter,@calm sage,@stable solstice,@wheat phoenix,@alpine kraken,@dusky zenith,@restive plank,@civic wagon,@young hornet,@tall widget

#

Hey everyone, we’re one month into this buddy read so wanted to do just a quick check-in to see how everyone’s progressing. That’s it, thanks for your time!

fringe yokeBOT
stable solstice
#

I plan on getting to this mid-September

thin shale
#

Hey I'm finished this! My flight just landed and I'll be home this afternoon, will update on thoughts and such blobHighFive

thin shale
#

okkk, final thoughts: ||Ghanima is my favorite character in this universe. I find it interesting that she managed to stave off possession by sort of allying with the internal memory of her mother. Alia's fate was fascinating and sad. Jessica kinda blew it on the whole parenting front. Even though Alia was pre-born, she still needed guidance and support. ||

#

I'm not sure what to make of ||Paul being the Preacher but then dying (for real)? and Duncan enraging Stilgar into killing him (for real?) so Stilgar would do what Duncan wanted, but the various chess games being played by the characters in this book were really interesting to me||

#

and of course now we have ||Leto the worm/human hybrid who will rule for 4000 years so uh, there's that. I'm not sure what a person can even say about that tbh kek like alright Herbert, whatever you say||

#

overall this was my favorite of the series so far. like I said before, maybe I'm getting used to Herbert's writing or getting more comfortable in this universe, or maybe this book was just a liiiiittle bit less opaque (not NOT opaque though haha)

#

I enjoyed the extensive reflection on the concept of empire and all of the political philosophy that found its way into the book

#

so yeah, overall a fun read!

stable solstice
#

Starting this next!

stable solstice
#

Introduction

IMG_3410.png IMG_3411.png
#

As someone who’s never known much of Frank Herbert, this series and anything for that matter, I’m really liking these introductions

#

I forgot how there weren’t chapter markers in these books pepeOldge

#

8% in
||>>> “Harah met his taunting stare without flinching, said: “My eyes are just as blue as yours!”
Ghanima laughed aloud. Harah was always an adept at the Fremen challenge-game. In one sentence, she had said: “Don’t taunt me, boy. You may be royalty, but we both bear the stigma of melange-addiction—eyes without whites. What Fremen needs more finery or more honor than that?”
Leto smiled, shook his head ruefully. “Harah, my love, if you were but younger and not already Stilgar’s, I’d make you my own.”
Harah accepted the small victory easily, signaling the other attendants to continue preparing the chambers for this day’s important activities. “Eat your breakfasts,” she said. “You’ll need the energy today.”
“Then you agree that we’re not too fine for our grandmother?” Ghanima asked, speaking around a mouthful of gruel.”||
||How does he manage to create characters who are both children in essence yet clearly seem to have knowledge beyond their years. Like Leto’s comment to Hara, it’s both child like but weird too in a way cuz he’s like 9 but already spice full omg ||

supple valley
stable solstice
#

12% in
||Okay I can sense the tensions between Jessica and the rest and feel like while they’re putting up a face here, something’s definitely going to test the loyalties of everyone

Also, I refuse to believe Paul’s dead much as the book wants me to believe so far. I mean he’s not your typical MC but he IS the MC. I’m glad to see more of Alia and the twins here and Gurney too||

stable solstice
#

I’ve switched to the audiobook and enjoying this quite a bit! Kinda feel like this one’s a mix of the first two ||in the sense that there’s both plotting and action going on if that makes sense. It’s kinda keeping me on my toes with the differing POVs and twins now separated|| about 45% in

stable solstice
#

57%
||Why does everyone have to kill someone sobAUGH I’m loving all these complexities explained out though ||

stable solstice
#

60%
||Wow all these dump of Arabic names and words kek Jalil Jalal Yakub Razaq (definitely getting the spellings wrong cuz I’m listening to the audiobook) but like I’ve seriously never come across so much arabic that wasn’t written by an Arab/Muslim. Also I’ve been waiting for Leto’s POV for quite a while just to know for certain he’s okay||

stable solstice
#

67%
||> My mind’s controls my reality ||
||I need to keep reminding myself of this too omg
I’m really enjoying this chapter||

stable solstice
#

71%
||This interaction between Ghanima and Irulan is interesting like you can see how much she actually cares ||

#

72%
||Wait, how old’s Leto again omg ||

supple valley
stable solstice
# supple valley They start the book at 10 years old iirc

||They’re 9 at the beginning and I was wondering if a long passage of time had passed because of this one particular scene but apparently not because a later scene made it clear Leto still being in the body of a child. Just like Duncan Idaho and Alia’s concepts were difficult to digest, and like Alia being an adult in the body of a child, I’ve now come to like ignore it || I’m 84% in now

#

This part I mean
||>>> “Ahhh, Sabiha, he thought, recalling that other vision which filled his heart with pain. Many nights have I dreamed beside the open water, hearing the winds pass overhead. Many nights my flesh lay beside the snake’s den and I dreamed of Sabiha in the summer heat. I saw her storing spice-bread baked on red-hot sheets of plasteel. I saw the clear water in the qanat, gentle and shining, but a stormwind ran through my heart. She sips coffee and eats. Her teeth shine in the shadows. I see her braiding my water rings into her hair. The amber fragrance of her bosom strikes through to my innermost senses. She torments me and oppresses me by her very existence.
The pressure of his multi-memories exploded the time-frozen englobement which he had tried to resist. He felt twining bodies, the sounds of sex, rhythms laced in every sensory impression: lips, breathing, moist breaths, tongues. Somewhere in his vision there were helix shapes, coal-colored, and he felt the beat of those shapes as they turned within him. A voice pleaded in his skull: “Please, please, please, please . . .” There was an adult beefswelling in his loins and he[…]”||
It’s clear to me now

supple valley
stable solstice
#

||Yeah omg that was weird and I was like, wait, is he still 9 or has he grown a bit or something like I could perhaps accept a 13 year old but not 9 omg ||

supple valley
#

No, just has memories of ||adult things||

stable solstice
#

I’m done
I’ll share full thoughts after work today

stable solstice
#

My final thoughts:
||This was soo good but like really, I’ve loved each book for different reasons and while I kinda missed Paul and Chani, I really liked the way the story progressed on. I loved the way initially Alia’s wavering thoughts and emotions are portrayed, the way we see her just descend into a completely possessed state from someone who’d been strong but not strong enough. I feel sad that Jessica and Alia never had that relationship where Alia could’ve trusted and relied upon her mum for help. Like even their meet after so long, it’s kinda awkward with Alia wondering and completely distrusting her intentions (and for good reason I know but still). I wish Jessica could’ve been more supportive of Alia as she’d been for Paul or even the twins as we see here. Like she genuinely seemed to care for them. The twins were fantastic. I loooove Ghanima and she felt like a very grounded character to me and perhaps because we’ve already known Alia, their preborn nature wasn’t too hard to comprehend (although that one scene I mentioned earlier did feel kinda weird-ish) but like the twins were like such strong characters, the way Ghanima goes through the hypnosis kinda process to fully believe Leto dead and also Leto escaping all odds and becoming the sandwormy indestructible being and everything. Kinda reminded me of Paul from Dune without too much of his arrogance Ig I can say. Idaho and Alia both self sacrificing for the greater good was also something I’d not expected omg Overall the book kinda kept me on my toes because there was so much going on and like it was apparent things would work out but parts like when Alia’s plotting to kill Jessica or Leto being stuck with those Jecu-something (I forgot the name, basically Sabiha’s people) had me rooting for them hard sort of.||

#

||I really felt like this book was kinda of a mix of the first two on vibes. It feels like the story has come to an end here, like a full arc’s been completed with Leto being near-immortal kinda ruler||

#

Thanks for hosting willow! blobHeart

hushed breach
#

I’m definitely gonna get to this one eventually just not during the br timeframe pikajoy

supple valley
#

Thanks for reading and posting your comments, Hanzy, I really got a kick out of them and you had great insights!!

supple valley
fair agateBOT
#

Understandable,
I know it's a busy time
for everyone

- tink
supple valley
#

Thank you haikubot!

young hornet
#

ok it's 5 am, I haven't slept nd I move out on Friday for uni nd therefore this is clearly the perfect time to start reading this pepemegaSUCC kekcry

supple valley
#

Perfect time!

young hornet
#

chapter 4: ||ok WHAT just happened I'm so confused LMFAO the 2 tiger things, I thought the 2 kids that the tigers and the levenbrech saw WERE the Atreides twins???? what the hell ok ig I have to continue purely to figure out what's going on LMAO||

supple valley
young hornet
fair agateBOT
#

that actually
would make a lot of sense now
I think about it

- Zander || 55/50
supple valley
young hornet
#

yeah like it's ||specifically to kill them no one else|| uncle Frank confuses me sooo much HAHA

supple valley
#

He’s a tricky one

fringe yokeBOT
#

@supple valley,@thin shale,@somber marsh,@hushed breach,@verbal pewter,@calm sage,@stable solstice,@wheat phoenix,@alpine kraken,@dusky zenith,@restive plank,@civic wagon,@young hornet,@tall widget

#

Hey everyone, just a few days left in this buddy read. I'll post a list of who has finished and who still seems to be reading. Let me (tink) know if I missed anyone or if anyone else is still reading. Thank you!

fringe yokeBOT
supple valley
#

Finished: ctrl-altmer-del, thelastpage, Hanzy
Still reading: tink, Zander, Faalak, maybe Smeagy?

tall widget
#

I am still reading.. at 25%

young hornet
#

yess im still reading!! gonna do my best to get as far as i can but i doubt i'll be done by the 30th, im completely fine with just missing out on br points though lmao because idk how long itll take me

supple valley
#

Back at it again
Ch 5 “The Fremen must return to his original faith…” ||Kind of a weird chapter, Alia and Jessica are playing space chess while everyone else is playing checkers poorly. I always love Gurney in this book or any book really. Love that Jessica trained him too, she’s just spilling all the BG secrets tbh. Her immediate domination of Javid is impeccable, and her last line is kind of strange, but also kind of interesting after she all but spanked him and is planning on buying his loyalty. “I presume you’ve arranged transportation” but not spoken as a question. Idk it’s just so quietly powerful which is very Jessica||

supple valley
#

Ch 8 “And I beheld another beast…” ||I like how Herbert has pretty much immediately revealed to the reader that the Prophet is Paul. Like the crowds don’t know, but we do. It prob would have been tempting to try to draw it out or fool the reader, but that always feels gimmicky to me like the author is trying to pull a gotcha||

young hornet
#

chapter 8 too^^ ||first of all this preacher character is weird nd i think he defo has something to do with paul. carrying around a mummified human hand is unhinged. but also to the imagrey of the dancers on the rope passing out because theyd been dancing for so long and then just waking up nd screaming "i have seen" is lowkey terrifying lmao like thats weird as hell. thank you uncle frank very cool kek ||

supple valley
young hornet
#

HAHAHA RIGHT initially I didn't nd then it kinda hit me like a page later nd I was just like "...what the fuck hold on" nd went back kek

supple valley
#

That’s like Dune trilogy in a nutshell

young hornet
#

I remember in messiah when I read the ||incest stuff|| nd didn't really think about it nd then when I stopped reading for the night it kinda hit me like a truck ||genuinely never have I been more grateful that a character died kekcry ||

#

^^full spoilers for Dune messiah

supple valley
#

I mean ||it was just hypothetical incest!||

young hornet
#

true ||nothing technically happened but I really don't doubt that the bene gesserit weirdos would've forced them to have sex kekcry ||

supple valley
#

Ch 18 “The life of a single human…” ||I love this chapter. To me this is some old school Dune logic and extrapolation, and all from one single statement. The part about how Shaddam maintained control on Dune by keeping the populace hopeless and highlighting problems rather than solutions felt so relevant. I feel like we struggle with that today a lot, and it’s hard to try to convince people to be more cautiously optimistic||

supple valley
#

Ch 21 ||House ferrets?!?||

thin shale
#

well put

#

I think the reason these books get confusing sometimes is because Herbert doesn't really talk us through how he got from point A to point Z, he just starts from one place and then jumps all the way to the end of the logical chain, but we're left being like "uh what?"

calm sage
supple valley
supple valley
thin shale
supple valley
#

Ch 25 “You Bene Gesserit call your activity…” ||Another example of Uncle Frank’s subtlety: the Fedaykin repeats a quote we’ve heard before: “when god ordains a man’s time to die, he directs that man to the proper place” (paraphrase), which we’ve heard Kynes say before in Dune (iirc). Herbert doesn’t feel the need to point this out tho, and I really like that||

supple valley
#

Ch 30 “In all major socializing…” ||Another really good scheming chapter. I love how quickly Wenisicia is removed from the active players list. It’s really Jessica and Farad’n dueling here, with occasional input from Duncan. I find Farad’n to be a very interesting character. He’s smart but still retains a lot of his humanity, a tall order for a lot of Dune characters||

supple valley
#

Ch 34 “The one-eyed view of our universe…” ||Love this chapter. Jessica and Duncan really can spar like no one else. I always regret movie adaptations that cut the scene in Dune where Jessica confronts a drunken Duncan, and one reason is that it’s recalled often in later books.

Duncan’s vehemence against Atreides is an important tool we will use later 👀||

supple valley
#

Good morning! Let’s get this beefswelling
Ch 40 “O Paul, thou Muad’Dib…” ||Ghani is such a badass, I love when she gets all stabby. Also the detail about Fremen children dispatching wounded soldiers, I fucking love the Fremen, that’s so badass||

supple valley
#

Ch 45 “One small bird has called thee…” ||beefswelling ||

supple valley
#

Ch 52 “The spirit of Muad’Dib is more than words…” ||Leto: Sabiha, would you still love me if I was a worm?
Sabiha: animeDespair ||

#

Ch 53 “Limits of survival are set by climate…” ||I def don’t think Alia is pregnant, I don’t remember who said that before. For one thing, Bene Gesserit control when they get pregnant. I think it’s a sign that the Baron is controlling her more and more, cause he’s always described as fat sobAUGH ||

supple valley
#

Ch 55 “Fremen were the first humans to develop…” ||Dang I totally forgot Duncan died in this book, and killed by Stilgar! That’s wild||

dusky zenith
supple valley
#

Ikr?

calm sage
#

||Leto: “Would you love me if I was a worm?”||

supple valley
#

Finished and I think I might bump up the rating. I gave it a 4, but that’s at least a 4.5 ||This has to be the weirdest dune book ever (until god emperor, of course). Leto is a worm now, and married to his sister. He is technically “possessed” but the spirit of a man who ruled over some people a long time ago? After earth, I assume. I totally forgot about that part and that had me very confused. Oh and also Leto is starting another breeding program, that will be starting out with his sister and her children by a man he’s holding hostage as a breeder/secretary. Did I miss anything? kekcry ||

#

Anyway absolute insanity, would recommend. Can’t wait for God Emperor of Dune

supple valley
#

Since Zander is the only one still reading, but not going to finish soon, I'll go ahead and submit the report. Here's who finished: ctrl-altmer-del, thelastpage, Hanzy, and tink

supple valley
stable solstice
dusky zenith
#

No, I bit off more than I can chew with brs and I have other books I wanted to read/listen to before my kindle unlimited and audible memberships end soon and didn’t get around to reading it. It would have been a reread for me so it was low on my priority list.

supple valley
#

Ok no worries, just wanted to make sure I didn't forget anyone

#

I hope you'll share your thoughts if you get around to it, it sure is a wild ride

thin shale
#

Thanks for hosting tink!

supple valley
#

Thanks for reading! I had fun discussing with everyone

somber marsh
#

I’m sorry I had huge reading slump kekcry

#

I WILL PICK this UP SOON I PROMKSE

#

DUNE MESSIAH WAS GLORIOUS

#

THIS WILL BE BETTER I SENSE IT

supple valley
#

Idk if it’s as good as Dune Messiah, but it’s def more chaotic

young hornet
#

tysm for hosting tink!!!! sorry I didn't end up finishing it, I do intend on finishing it this week at the least pepemegaSUCC