#Literary Criticism

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tame gale
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For discussion of the interpretation, analysis, and judgment of a piece of literature

weary lion
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I saw a buddy read for a piece of literary criticism and thought it’d be cool to discuss. I haven’t read any since college personally, and was wondering what type people like to read and see if anyone had any recommendations

fossil bronze
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i've been reading a bit of Julia Kristeva lately. finished The Samurai which was her first fictional novel. it's semi-autobiographical but brilliant in its application of her deep knowledge of linguistics and literary criticisms. i believe that she knew Barthes personally, as well? not sure

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i've also read Powers of Horror where she goes through a lot of Céline's works

vale osprey
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oh new thread pepemegaSUCC

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the contemporary lit crit books that I am planning on reading are Not all dead white man, seduced by Story: The Use and Abuse of Narrative, how to Think Like a Woman, languages of Truth, in other words- Gayatri Chakravarty Spivak, Pretentiousness: Why It Matters, The Girl Who Ate Books, Notes on the Death of Culture(it aint contemporary but hmmLurk )

vale osprey
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i have finally started Mythologies by Roland Barthes

vale osprey
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I read Barthes's Mythologies and even though the book was dense and challenging on the first read, I found many insightful concepts for cultural analysis. Ideas like semiotics, the death of the author, the naturalization of myths into culture, and how signs can have hidden political or ideological agendas were the most interesting. I especially liked the example of striptease, where Barthes talks about how the nature of striptease is so artificial and professional that it desexualizes the act itself. This reminds me of rehearsed explicit sexual scenes in films, where the act is completely rehearsed and artificial, which desexualizes it for the participants. (Blue Is the Warmest Colour and the notorious Last Tango in Paris, comes to mind in this context where the act was not discussed earlier to make it more "real" and "natural" yikes).

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I want to read more about his inoculation theory and how he uses Freud's dream interpretation in the context of myth persistence and maybe "author on holiday" which seems like a version of living in an ivory tower thing

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Oh yeah and i also like his thory of how the views of the dominant group in a society becomes the default view of the society which reminds of a book called invisible women where the default male view is discussed

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Lol every cultural analysis/media studies book i read and i get spooked by how widespread indoctrination is through media (traditional and non traditional medias)

vale osprey
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i would probably read Pretentiousness by Dan fox or not all dead white men next

fossil bronze
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it sounds like a really good book Acid (Mythologies) I want to read it!

vale osprey
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it has loads of food for thoughts for sure!!

vale osprey
vale osprey
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it's always a red flag to find nothing worth criticizing in a book other than its complexity so i looked to GR for the 1 star reviews and lmaoo

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vale osprey
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I have borrowed the myth of sisyphus, the girl who ate books and Vargas Llosa's notes on the death of a culture

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I would probably finish Camus first

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But I'll hope to finally tead Girl who ate books after this

vale osprey
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Anyhow I will share the points i found to be most valuable to me poobSmirk

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Oh well "philosophical suicide" tops the list hands down Pikaparty

vale osprey
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Hmm i pondered a bit and came to conclusion that philosophical suicide and the absurd hero/man are the most stricking ones

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I wish Helen's exile would have brought more to the table like myth of promotheus. althoguh I suppose all of the myths used here quite literally used for emphasizing the nature of the "absurb hero" but girl idk how board i am on "living in defiance" esp since he talked about artists should challenge the absurd condition of existence

grand osprey
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a long shot, but while reading #1329215324184121435 i started thinking about the differences between (literary) realism and naturalism - does anyone know if these are (socioeconomically) class-specific? in that i tend to associate naturalism with depictions and descriptions of what life is like for the lower social classes, and realism with upper classes?

odd merlin
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Hmmm....

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Well, I can think of a few counter examples, but I do see the pattern you are pointing out.

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I mean, Gatsby can be read as naturalist in that he cannot escape his social heredity and the systemic construct of class. The House of Mirth is also arguably naturalist in that Lily is not free, her New York high society environment is the system that wears her down and destroys her. Its like determinism via gossip, economics and enforced gender expectations.

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Those are definitely not novels about the lower classes.

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realism aimed up? um... Eliot's Silas Marner? Some of Dickens? (Hard Times comes to mind)

grand osprey
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thank you Bas! i was super-hoping you might read and reply pepeSalute

odd merlin
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I definitely think you have a working theory there but there may be some causation/correlation issues. I mean, Naturalism is the idea of examining people as organisms of their environment. People ground down by poverty, the system, circumstances they cnat control, etc. Realism, while claiming to be just writing about life "as it is" has to be about motivation, psychology and choices of daily life.

Hard to really depict the realist themes of marriage and dowry plots, inheritances and professional/social reputations when you are depicting people living hand to mouth on farms or in factories. Likewise, its harder to depict the bourgeois as the oppressed victims of society's grind.

Maybe the socio-economic split you spotted it more of a symptomatic result and not an intentional cause?

I dunno. I will have to think about this some more.

grand osprey
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yeah, it got me thinking because even in #1329215324184121435 novels devoted to discussion and formation of the upper classes and aristocracy, there is still a lot of tragedy and trauma - am thinking particularly of the more well-off women - but at times its depiction is still quite sexist or infantilising? or not at all exploratory the way it is for women of the lower classes. (i think i'm just scarred by L'Assommoir if i'm being honest)

grand osprey
grand osprey
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been reading the extra material in my edition of #1452838378046230579 and so glad there's analysis of a lot of what I had questions of in regards to the plot and the narrative especially as I interpreted it as ||the governess pretty much documenting a gradual psychological breakdown, and there's material discussing James' sister's history of illness in possibly influencing the character of the governess.||

grand osprey
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probably a long shot - has anyone read any of Edmund Wilson's literary critic-type work?