Philosophy

[fervent granite]

I should warn, though, that Deleuze, like a lot of the french philosophers of the (latter half of) the 20th century, is hard to read in the original. Worth it, I'd say, but I'm pretty sure Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus have been the most difficult things I've read so far

[candid needle]

Holding a copy of What is philosophy? by Jose Ortega y Gasset. I am intrigued with the synopsis but not sure I can finish it

[fervent granite]

what's the synopsis like?

I've heard, peripherally, about Jose Ortega y Gassett, but I'm far from familiar

[candid needle]

hear his name for the first time. I see another person borrowed this book another day. I think it's worth a try reading his book after reading the synopsis. which I am trying to re-write/translate it into English. just give me another 30 mins ..

[fervent granite]

no rush!

[candid needle]

synopsis: This book is the speech drafts collection, consist of 11 chapters which discuss contemporary philosophy, the withered and expanding of philosophy, the problems of our era, the knowledge about cosmos, philosophy's needs, theory and religion, the basic fact in universe/cosmos, the finding of subjectivity, the fundamental reform of philosophy, the new idea of new reality, the type of life And fate and freedom.

Ortega think pursuing truth always is an adventure, an adventure on concept(s). Philosophy today is very different from ppl's opinion toward philosophy from last century. It means the truth(es) is changing. However, this kind of saying doesn't deny the value of truth(es), truth itself always exist, but the history of truth(es) is found by specific ppl in specific time, so truth(es) is equipped with the aspect of history.

Ortega thinks our life is the basic being(?) among universe. "Thinking" is life, because thinking is me having a relationship with the world in some form. Life is the process of deciding self to do what things in every moment. Life is the future about to come, it's the thing that not yet become the past. when ppl making choices in a limited environment constantly, it means life is already making its own fate.

[pale blade]

That was pretty much it from my AP class.

It was pretty much American philosophy and some focus on the transcendentalist movement when we eventually read Into the Wild.

[fervent granite]

transcendentalism I have very mixed feelings about, though it is always better to know things than not, and if you're trying to familiarise yourself with the american philosophical tradition it's hard to work aroubd

it's the first, that I'm aware of at least, bit shift in interest toward eastern thought and religion, which is nice

it's relatively close to romanticism, which is a vein of thought I have fond-ish feelings of, even if I don't find it the most philosophically mindblowing

it's very Rousseau-y, and, I mean, believing in the inherent goodness of man certainly beats doing whatever Hobbes was doing

but I simply cannot overlook the things that bother me, in the movement

the whole individuality - self-reliance thing irks me too badly

[rare goblet]

if i wanted to get a better understanding of Aristotle's Poetics from a literary theory/crit perspective, which edition of a translation would people recommend? (ideally wanting to learn about his theories on epic and lyric poetry)

an edition with lots of notes on the above would be awesome, more so than accuracy in translation (i know, travesty)

[fervent granite]

I believe Norton have an edition of the Poetics?

I'm far from well-versed in the classics, but the Norton Critical Editions are pretty good I quite like them

that might be worth looking into

also, not particularly expensive - seeing a new copy up on the Gardners database for like 12 pounds

[rare goblet]

was tossing up between that and the Oxford World's Classics one - the contents of the Norton seemed to focus a lot epic and tragic poetry but there isn't much on lyric poetry?

[fervent granite]

oh, the Oxford Classics are also pretty good, hmm

just a sec, lemme try and look at smth

okay, I'm certain we have an edition of it lying about somewhere, but I have no clue where it's been tucked away

I've been left with the impression lyrical poetry was, at the time, slightly more marginal, from what I've read

the epic and the tragedy were more "serious" genres to write in, more removed from the immediate context of their performance

lyrical works were often written for specific occasions, too

so my assumption's that there might be less info on lyrical poetry in the edition because there is less pertinent information about lyrical poetry in the context in general

but this is, at best, an educated guess

if either of these options is easier to get - cheaper, more readily available, whatever - I'd just suggest going for that one

both Oxford and Norton publish good critical editions, and I haven't been much disappointed by either, so far, I'd say

[rare goblet]

yeah, i was hoping for more context on how English Romantics were influenced by or shaped by that aspect of Aristotelian poetics

whoops this belongs in #1059881951542116462

[stable light]

If you feel a slight breeze as you go about today, that is not weather; that is the very angry ghost of Pindar trying to punch you in the face for saying this. LOL.

[fervent granite]

pfhahahahaha

okay, but no!

my favourite poet from the period is Sappho!

who was a lyrical poet

I quite like Catullus, too, who, though not working within quite the same tradition and parameters, has a lot of overlap with the lyrical

[rare goblet]

hell yeah is Pindar trying to stick up for the lesser lyrics?!

[formal spruce]

By accident i stumbled on here and i feel i have found my people!! I will read all of your spicy philosophic opinions on a rainy afternoon. Looking forward to see more books i havent yet read analysed and be inspired:)))

[stray hearth]

my CR is religious philosophy if anyone is interested Christian Atheism by Slavoj Žižek. ive been looking for a different author on atheism after being frustrated with the bertrand russel/christopher hitchens/sam harris

i am interested in any perspective on this issue in book form. my biggest gripe that ive experienced (on both ends of the argument tbh) is weirdly disrespectful tone? I like a more scholarly/dry feeling for my philosophy because of the way i try to logic through stuff in my head

id really really like a christian pov book on atheism that feels more scholarly and less like a weird memoir lol

or any other faith! part of the reason richard dawkins made me mad is because he was so dismissive of any faith that wasnt abrahamic

[cursive night]

I read Every Cradle is a Grave recently if anyone else is interested in antinatalist rhetoric

[stray hearth]

oh this book is ass nevermind

[stray hearth]

its not about christianity as much about how the woke left is bad

[stray hearth]

GOOD NEWS: Reasonable Faith by William Lane Craig is accessible enough and transparent in the way he lays out arguments. It is Christian apologetics, so readers need to consider that it's from that perspective, but it's by far the best book I have found like this

[candid needle]

I want to read the English edition so I won't talk gibberish about it like this.
found a copy. the cover is beautiful. but it's out of stock 😕

[fervent granite]

this one should be relatively widely available, among Sartre's works, no?

something's bound to pop up sooner or later

wish you luck!

[sullen escarp]

late response but o/

[pine ingot]

huh?

[sullen escarp]

not an atheist

[candid needle]

@cursive night sry about tagging you here Cas.. but I remember you said once that you want to read Tao Te Ching translated by Le Guin. if so, is this the copy you are holding?
The publisher is Shambhala

[rare goblet]

not Cas but noooo, stop suggesting awesome books to add to TBR! is there anything Le Guin hasn't done writing-wise!? i wonder if it's any good as a translation

[candid needle]

haha. I mean, I want to read it too. not sure I understand you last sentence, do you mean you are wondering if Le Guin's translation is anything good compare to other translators'?

oh my, I found so many of them on Internet Archive's website...

[rare goblet]

yeah, how it ranks up next to others who might have translated it.

[candid needle]

I found here are some links to reviews on Le Guin's translation, but I guess all of them are positive ones
https://www.ursulakleguin.com/lao-tzu-the-tao-te-ching

[cursive night]

i dont have any copy yet, this one looks good though. is it the one you have?

[fervent granite]

close friend of mine who's doing asian studies got this copy

they seemed pretty happy, though I can shoot 'em an ask about it, if anyone wants?

[candid needle]

I don't have a copy yet either. It's the copy that I am able to purchase from local bookstore.

[candid needle]

thank you for the help. I am aiming for Le Guin's copy, so I will be reading hers regardless of the ranks. maybe @rare goblet would need more info?

[rare goblet]

i'd be happy for any info regarding how it is as a translation 🙂

[candid needle]

I don't own much philosophy books, but these are what I want to read:
Republic by Plato
The History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell
An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke
Leviathan by Hobbes
The Human Condition by Hanna Arendt
if anyone interested in reading one of them, please let me know :]

[mighty willow]

Ohh I’ve read this recently. Her translation process is sort of interesting - she’d look at several English translations of the Chinese version then pick the essence / common denominator. I feel this could twist the original work a bit, as she also would cut some lines to fit her overall reading / understanding of the work

@rare goblet in case u r interested in my take on Le Guin’s translation ^

this is what i originally wrote in my review on her translation:
She didn't translate directly from Chinese, but instead perused several versions of English translations (including one with direct 1-1 translation of each Chinese character, though it can be argued that Chinese characters often carry multiple meanings and thus impossible to match with a single English word) and attempted to bring out what she considered as Lao Tzu would've intended. This includes artistic and subjective choices of omitting certain sections that she deemed as contradictory or irrelevant. I appreciate the transparency on her approach, but I'd take these poem (interpretations) with a grain of salt.

[rare goblet]

thank you so much for this response! i was worried about the translation aspect for this reason, as it didn't sound like she translated it directly, so it probably wouldn't be my first choice to read - especially regarding omissions, as a good translation wouldn't 'edit' that way (i shouldn't think; it seems it used to happen a lot more in past when censorship or obscenity charges were a thing and that's where it should stay)

[candid needle]

oh... in that case, i would think twice before buying and reading. ty for letting me know

[fervent prairie]

I’m interested in reading The Human Condition by Arendt. Maybe in a couple months’ time though, as i’m currently knees deep in The Second Sex by Simone de Beauvoir

[candid needle]

a correction for #1058665592296570911 message
So I have read the English translation by Carol Macomber, and the more correct version of these lines are listed as follow:

1. Dostoyevsky once wrote, "If God does not exist, everything is permissible.” This is the starting point of existentialism.

2. Thus, there is no human nature since there is no God to conceive of it. Man is not only that which he conceives himself to be, but that which he wills himself to be, and since he conceives himself only after the exists, just as he wills himself to be after being thrown into existence, man is nothing other than what he makes of himself. This is the first principle of existentialism.

3. If, however, existence truly does precede essence, man is responsible for what he is. Thus, the first effect of existentialism is to make every man conscious of what he is, and to make him solely responsible for his own existence.

4. I am therefore responsible for myself and for everyone else, and I am fashioning a certain image of man as I choose him to be.
   In choosing myself, I choose man.

5. Man is nothing other than his own project. He exists only to the extent that he realizes himself, therefore he is nothing more than the sum of his actions, nothing more than his life

6. And when we speak of “abandonment” – one of Heidegger’s favorite expressions – we merely mean to say that God does not exist, and that we must bear the full consequences of that assertion.

[carmine obsidian]

gesundheit

[candid needle]

(I am so glad somebody is interested in the books I listed 🥲 ) ( I feel it's a difficult book after my first attempt.)
same. I don't think I will be reading it any time soon. will probably read it after I finished another book, Coyote America: A Natural and Supernatural History next year. so.. probably April of 2026. what you think? let me know your thoughts if you decided to start earlier

[fervent prairie]

April 2026 sounds good to me. Your list is pretty good. I would like to read others on there but i’m trying to be realistic with the list i already have pilled on if you devide to read it earlier let me know as well

[candid needle]

great! that's settle it on April 2026 then. the list ... is a goal hope I can achieve it someday haha

[proven geyser]

petition to start referring to animals like so

"do you have any pets?"
"yes! i have one that trembles as if it were mad"

[rare goblet]

you should read his Book of Imaginary Beings and classify them accordingly!

[fervent granite]

oh, yeah, easily the best list I have ever reading anything ever

strongly recommend Borges

adore that there's "etcetera" and then there's 2 more points

also, "drawn with a very fine camel-hair brush" is another amazing point

I believe the encyclopeadia described in Borges's story belonged to a chinese emperor of a specific age, but it's been a hot second

[proven geyser]

Revive

[fervent granite]

reviven!

gotta read Deleuze's The Fold some time

[proven geyser]

Thinking about Socrates:
Actually reading Socratic dialogue:

I read Book X of The Republic today and I kept thinking "yeah. I see why this guy was executed"

/hj

[stable light]

Harsh. So harsh.

[sullen escarp]

omg

[candid needle]

@gaunt gulch I think Plato has some very interesting and innovative ideas about politics. well, maybe not that innovative after you studied ancient Greek history

[rare goblet]

now that the (first failed 😭 ) BR for #1372844095554453505 is over, i am struggling to get back into the groove of reading this

[balmy vine]

BR for Brothers Karamazov is still going on ^_^ https://discord.com/channels/811077227449286667/1267073147925037088

ends March 14!

[proven geyser]

Does anyone have any good books on Buddhism for beginners? I'm looking for stuff that gives guidance on how to include such practices into your daily life

[pine ingot]

Thich Nhat Hanh or Jon Kabat Zinn are pretty good

[proven geyser]

Thank u!!

[tired hinge]

Anybody here read Graham priests introduction to non classical logic

[proven geyser]

The textbook? Yeah I have

[tired hinge]

Wdym? Is there stuff other than the textbook

[proven geyser]

Are you asking why I asked for clarification?

[tired hinge]

What

My English is not the best

[proven geyser]

I don't understand why you asked "wdym"

I don't know if there's more than just the textbook

[tired hinge]

Oh nice, do you think that is a good place to start for non classical logic

[proven geyser]

Yeah, I think most textbooks are a good place to start 🫶

[tired hinge]

Non classical logic is too hard

[fervent granite]

oh?

[tired hinge]

Yep

[fervent granite]

how so?

only partly familiar with non-classical logic, myself

[candid needle]

currently trying to read An Essay Concerning Human Understanding by John Locke

[fervent granite]

oh, very fun one!

important for a lot of later Enlightenment philosophers

(also worth considering Kant's Critique of Pure Reason in a later context)

how's it going so far?

[candid needle]

I feel the language is a bit difficult for me. So I placed a library hold on Chinese edition. The reasoning is not too difficult to follow. I am at book I chapter 2. Skipped chapter 1 tho

[fervent granite]

ah, yeah, the style of the period tends to be quite circumlocutious, and can be a bit hard to follow, even if the underlying ideas aren't as difficult to get a handle on

[tired hinge]

Yep I think I'll just have a basic understanding of non classical logic and go in depth some other time

[tired hinge]

Ok I got a textbook on modal logic instead

[fervent granite]

I found a pretty good explanation of Deleuze & Gauttari's BwO (as it pertains mostly to Capitalism & Schizophrenia, though there is internal variance between Anti-Oedipus and A Thousand Plateaus) in a comment on reddit, today, so I'm saving it here for convenience and accessibility

[candid needle]

I finished reading The death and trial of Socrates: Apology, Crito and Phaedo.

[fervent granite]

oh, how was it?

[proven geyser]

OOOOOOH AWESOME

Apology was my favourite out of those

[pine ingot]

I kind of skimmed through Apology.. It was ok. Maybe I missed the main points?

[candid needle]

I read them in Chinese and read pretty fast and didn't take any notes. the vague impression I got is Socrates thinks it's wrong to break or abuse the national/polis's law to escape the prison, he only do the right things. so he is happy to go to his death.

[candid needle]

Apology is a fun (?) read, let us know how the trial goes. before this, I only read it in my ancient Greek history books. so it's really interesting to me. And I think it's a bit weird to see a man try to count ppl against him in his death sentence trial and almost like trying to give commands ("we only need 30 more to win this trail!" is what underlying his words). I mean, Socrates really has courage but he also don't care how does the society work...

[glossy raven]

Oh good thread

Finally for the most useless field of them all

God bless i feel like at home

[glossy raven]

Apology is also the funniest cause on his second defense he goes from having less than 1/5th against him to more than 80 people voting for death sentence

He did NOT know how to defend himself

I respect the bravery

[proven geyser]

OMG I KNOW RIGHT

[candid needle]

@fervent prairie hi Dreia, have you started reading The Human Condition by Arendt yet?

[glossy raven]

-# Do we take arendt as a serious philosopher here?

[fervent granite]

she's a thinker!

of a sorts

arguably better than Rand and Camus, by my standards

[glossy raven]

Oooh wait

My bad

My bad i got the surnames confused

[fervent granite]

you were thinking of Rand weren't you

[glossy raven]

Yeah 🚬

[fervent granite]

lmfao

[glossy raven]

Horrendous mistake

[fervent granite]

happens to the best of us dw

[glossy raven]

Capital punishment for me

Arendt is a magnific thinker

[fervent granite]

yeah capital punishment seems fitting when your mind jumps to Rand fbifnfkc

[glossy raven]

That woman was NOT okay

[fervent granite]

That woman was NOT okay

regarding Arendt

and just the related field

there's certain postcolonial critiques - maybe a bit moreso politics than philosophy? - that posit that what took place during WWII was made thinkable through colonial violence: it wasn't inherently different in terms of strategies employed, it was simply moved back onto The Continent, where "civilisation" was, for all to see

thing is, I can't find, for th e life of me, where this line of thought comes from

if anyone has a clue, do please chime in

[glossy raven]

Hmmm

Its a very interesting idea

I'll look it up

[fervent granite]

I believe Arendt writes in this line of thought as well, though I assume it's been developed since she first made note of it

[glossy raven]

Okay after some google search it seems to be from Aimé Césaire

His wikipedia page mentions that

[fervent granite]

oooh!

worth looking into, then

thanks a lot~!

[glossy raven]

Nopro

[fervent prairie]

Hello! Not yet! Are you planning on reading it soon?

[candid needle]

no actually 😅 I strayed a little from my plan. how about you? when do you plan to read it

[glossy raven]

Thoughts on being and time (only people who have read it please)

[fervent prairie]

Same! I have no reading plan at the moment. I orefer to pick something i feel like reading at that time.

[fervent granite]

aaaany particular thoughts you're looking for?

does "probably marginally easier if your native tongue is german" count lmao

[glossy raven]

Like all german philosophy basically 🚬

Well just im looking mostly for opinions on it

Its a very hermetic book

But im having fun trying to decipher it

Also i still dont understand what the Dasein is fml

[fervent granite]

Dasein is humans, in a way

though humans as a specific kind of thing capable of raising (to itself?) the question of Being

which Heidegger believes has been somewhat abandoned by the time he's writing

it's in relation to Das Man as a kind of structure within which Dasein sinks - the "disppearing" of Dasein into the everyday and away from this specific ability of it to ask questions about Being

[fervent granite]

(in this I guess it's possible for things like aliens to be Daseins)

[glossy raven]

hmmm

i see

thanks!!

[fervent granite]

you're welcome~!

[candid needle]

i see. let me know if you start reading the book? I might start it after June

[fervent prairie]

Yes, will do, and I’ll bear in mind you’re planning on maybe reading it in June. I might join you! The Human Condition is a must read and i love Arendt.

[mellow glade]

can anybody have a discussion about some of their favorite laws in the 48 Laws of Power with me in dms?

[fervent granite]

Philosophy
look inside
The 48 Laws of Power
kek

[mellow glade]

lol i was having a brain fart. psychology the book is

[gaunt gulch]

https://tenor.com/view/better-call-saul-lalo-salamanca-wink-smile-adios-gif-26325457

[cursive night]

a new translation of Camus' complete notebooks and travelogues from a single translator is being released.
https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/albert-camus-complete-notebooks-ryan-bloom-existentialism-absurd/