placid bluff
Join a discussion about the future of Web frameworks moderated by This Dot Labs' Jesse Tomchak.
Featuring Daniel Roe (Nuxt), Fred K. Schott (Astro), Ben McCann (SvelteKit), Ryan Carniato (SolidStart), Bret Little (Hydrogen), and Miško Hevery (Qwik City)
https://imgur.com/VbwxeUl
dapper spear
les gooooo
torn nexus
Hydrogen - React <> VueStorefront - Vue ??
boreal sand
Shoutout to Jesse from This Dot!
dapper spear
❤️ this dot
hallow oasis
Oh no
opal horizon
How much you guys are afraid of AI taking over before you will release next version of the framework? 🙂
boreal sand
Ah, fair
dapper spear
literally no one would have said anything to that question
hallow oasis
Snowpack!!!!
opal horizon
Snowpack+Pika 🙂
hallow oasis
Snowpack!!!!
https://www.snowpack.dev/ build tool for ESM before Vite existed, around the time of Rollup's creation (citation needed, plz)
dapper spear
Q: "what is the piece of innovation that you are the most proud of?"
either in your specific framework or the community in general
robust sphinx
We worked on making vite-note to benefits all web framework to bring on-demand build for SSR, read more on Anthony Fu article about it: https://antfu.me/posts/dev-ssr-on-nuxt
civic aurora
hearing about so many new tech. snowpack, tauri, analogjs, etc.
dapper spear
snowpack v1 was jan 2020
dapper spear
heard of Snowpack at syntax.fm the first time
same
chrome stream
I love how much nuxt created - it's so crazy getting a glimpse behind the scenes of what @glossy cloud and the rest of the team are delivering!
dapper spear
holy shit a 45 minute panel.... and i have a 30 minute meeting in between
digital temple
Oh hey!
opal horizon
Q: do you guys miss that Remix and Next.js is not on this panel? 🙂
dapper spear
i am going to miss so much
hallow oasis
The work that Pooyah, Daniel, and Anthony are doing... their unjs org is agnostic and AWESOME. https://github.com/unjs
dapper spear
Q: do you guys miss that Remix and Next.js is not on this panel? 🙂
framework !== metaframework
digital temple
dapper spear
i think that is the logic behind this panel
opal horizon
framework !== metaframework
What about Hydrogen and Nuxt?
dapper spear
hmm i guess it might be svelte+sveltekit, react+hydrogen, vue+nuxt
since there is an overlap between the core teams
digital temple
💜 @wild vapor getting some love on the panel!
boreal sand
I think it's more that Remix and Next don't use Vite
digital temple
strong +1
boreal sand
Remix is esbuild, Next is (I think?) webpack
dapper spear
I think it's more that Remix and Next don't use Vite
ah this makes more sense
dapper spear
Remix is esbuild, Next is (I think?) webpack
yes
hallow oasis
Remix is esbuild, Next is (I think?) webpack
(yes, it's webpack)
torn nexus
💜 <@502748505350340608> getting some love on the panel!
he's the man
hallow oasis
and on that topic, getting the resolved next.js config to spawn a webpack server w the user bundler config... so painful (as a devtool, like Cy CT)
chrome stream
💯 supporting what @glossy cloud just said - it's incredible how vite works for SO many different frameworks!
opal horizon
Remix is esbuild, Next is (I think?) webpack
Right, that’s why I’m asking do you guys wish they were using it
hallow oasis
Yes.
boreal sand
Right, that’s why I’m asking do you guys wish they were using it
I prefer to use tools built on Vite, yes.
hallow oasis
I like utility CSS frameworks that are vite-first and icon libraries that are vite-first
torn nexus
just listening to Misko brings back so many memories about AngularJS and my time using it lol... it's been a while since I saw him
boreal sand
I don't think it's wrong to use something else, but I'm gonna stick to this ecosystem
dapper spear
so the question is that "do you prefer if pretty much every framework used vite and ditched webpack/etc"
hallow oasis
I would rather have more agnostic tools that don't care about node/browser environment than care about unifying on a dev-server.
chrome stream
I really liked the question in the #2022-viteconf chat:
Q: Do you think it hurts the community as a whole to have too little competition, when everyone is joining Vite?
dapper spear
my answer would be "no", as much as i like vite, no one should have a monopoly over a some area, there should always be space for healthy competition, or there will be no innovation. but really curious to hear the panel's thoughts
opal horizon
I really liked the question in the <#997209205222158347> chat:
**Q: Do you thin...
This is not even close to that yet 🙂
chrome stream
I know we're not even close - just an interesting question I thought!
hallow oasis
I think a good example of why competition is good is Jest's proprietary module transform system. Unification throughout a toolchain such that your entire pipeline is using the same "compiler options" is very important to me.
chrome stream
And I would argue: There will always be competition. There will be multiple people creating new frameworks and tools that solve different problems or even the same problems differently!
dapper spear
Q: "what is the piece of innovation that you are the most proud of?"
i need to hop into a meeting, would love if this question is asked
robust sphinx
I like utility CSS frameworks that are vite-first and icon libraries that are vi...
I like utility CSS framework that are unplugin first 🙂
robust sphinx
hallow oasis
Oh. Yeah. This little buddy is what I use. Any innovations w/ uno yet?
robust sphinx
https://github.com/unjs/unplugin is the fondation if you are interested
hallow oasis
i've dug into unjs, but not the unplugin core.
glossy cloud
And come try nitro! https://github.com/unjs/nitropack => https://nitro.unjs.io/
torn nexus
are you chatting while on the call Daniel? 😮
boreal sand
LLVM is an interesting comparison
opal horizon
are you chatting while on the call Daniel? 😮
Two years of WFH will do that to you
torn nexus
hahahaha
robust sphinx
https://github.com/unjs is made for any frameworks to collaborate and use universal JS librairies to work across any environments (Node, Browser, Workers)
digital temple
torn nexus
thanks!
low vessel
💚💚💚💚💚💚
chrome stream
what was the project @FredKSchott shouted out there?
digital temple
torn nexus
library name? hahaha sorry, I'm slow
wild vapor
How many @digital temple are around?
low vessel
How many <@709083909996019845> are around?
including the bots?
digital temple
Fuzzy is a bot
wild vapor
@hybrid quail hey, get here! Fred is throwing flowers at you ❤️
hybrid quail
<@564712749695893515> hey, get here! Fred is throwing flowers at you ❤️
HatTip powers Rakkas too, btw.
digital temple
@hybrid quail I'd love to see how our adapters in Astro could leverage this internally, feels like the missing layer for all of these adapters to fit on top of
hybrid quail
<@564712749695893515> I'd love to see how our adapters in Astro could leverage t...
That was our idea. SvelteKit, SolidState, Rakkas, Astro, etc. each has to maintain their own adapters which is a huge amount of duplicated effort.
opal horizon
Can’t believe no one said what framework is best yet 🙂
low vessel
it really is, and there is greater implications that is felt downstream with the users, interoperability, poorly understood and hence poorly built adapters that can then cause spiraling cloud costs
chrome stream
Can’t believe no one said what framework is best yet 🙂
I thought it was determined in #2022-viteconf to be Wordpress with jQuery?
goes back to topic 🙈
low vessel
WordPress on vite when?
chrome stream
WordPress on vite when?
already exists apparently: https://github.com/blonestar/wp-theme-vite-tailwind
low vessel
goes back to topic 🙈
chrome stream
😄 hey, it's hard, ok?
boreal sand
"I'm not a shill, I promise" lol
low vessel
"Resumability"!!! I hit the viteconf bingo
civic aurora
there you go - Misko says Qwik is the best fw
glossy cloud
torn nexus
thanks everyone!!
opal horizon
This panel needs like 5 hours to get started 🙂
opal horizon
45 minutes is too little 🙂
stone heart
😍
boreal sand
Great panel!!!
civic aurora
just saw that this conf is going all day and night - into 1:21 AM woah!!!!
buoyant sapphire
Just caught up with the frameworks panel, thanks for the shoutout @compact folio 😄 I should really set a deadline for the prebundling work. Need the pressure
compact folio
Just caught up with the frameworks panel, thanks for the shoutout <@709488329003...
the deadline is Vite 4 / SvelteKit 1.0, so we don't have long 😆
