#Working at the death mines? Sounds great! (4768993)
cerulean path
Due to rightful complaint, my items didn't get enough love, I did this!
It's my first try at doing a non-linear dungeon, which was way more complicated than I thought.
Would love to hear what you think - especially about the difficulty, and if the hidden stuff was "too well hidden" (aka frustrating).
cerulean path
Uh oh... 22% completion rate after 9 people trying.
Quickly nerfed some stuff (far less invisible stuff, the "enlightening" npc is now far more optional).
Still unsure about the difficulty of one timed gauntlet and the 2-phase final boss. I'd say, it's fair enough.
On other dungeon @warm knoll said:
First of all - THANKS SO MUCH FOR HELPING! I hope the version 2 is clearer.
I'm stuck with no hammer...
The hammer is found after you return to the first part with the sword found.
Got a few gems, got the heart crystal(The chicken one was kinda dumb, there wasn't really any way to find it, except to try and die in several different places.)
The path to the chicken is now "enlightened" after talking to the hint-npc ||at the exit plattform of the tracks out||.
Is there an invisible moving platform in the room with the sword?
Nope. You were in a room above and (if cleared) you should have dropped a big stony plattform down.
Maybe I should make that one more clear...
This is crucial, since the sword gates a lot of further progress (including the hammer).
cerulean path
OK, version 3 up!
The whole "get the sword" part was apparently too confusion - since this gates pretty much the rest, I nerfed it significantly (hints and closed doors preventing you from leaving prematurely).
I hope, you can now progress easily.
Can't wait to hear feedback on the water gauntlet and boss 🙂
Thanks all!
warm knoll
I saw the droppable stone, figured you had to drop it and tried to drop it. But I had no idea how to drop it without the hammer. I thought it was one more thing you need the hammer or bombs for(would be a plot twist that you got the bombs instead.)
The water room was cool. I can't reset it cause I have no sword and I needed to kill the sneks with a shape gem.
Ah...
Since I had no sword and there was a snek below the room I, of course, took some weapons with me out of that room.
And stashed them somewhere else.
warm knoll
Does... the water stream after the big door carry you over the lava? And did you turn it off, so that when you dodge it you're softlocked and have to do the whole dungeon again from the start?
No, wait, the big door locks you in.
I didn't see the new version b.t.w. I just hibernated my PC and continued the next day.
The "Take the minecart to go down into the mines." part is really charming.
But if it's mandatory to do several times to get the hammer and set in the circle gems it becomes tedious.
But that's mostly because I spend a while running around after failing to trigger the falling stone.
Instead of locking up the player you should put blue coins into the stones if you want us to smash them all, that would signal that smashing them does something.
warm knoll
The Floating palace is a nice traditional dungeon. No bells and whistles, just good ol Zeldaing.
Could use more Death Traps in the boss Room. Or, you could add a mandatory reset switch to heal the boss after you fall down inside his Arena.
cerulean path
Since I had no sword and there was a snek below the room I, of course, took some...
Since I had no sword and there was a snek below the room I, of course, took some weapons with me out of that room.
The snek was more as a gag that you can unburrow also nasty stuff. Didn't occur to me that it could confuse.
Ah!!! And then the block doesn't fall. Got it.
Instead of locking up the player you should put blue coins into the stones if you want us to smash them all, that would signal that smashing them does something.
In version 3 there is a sign telling you to "clean up" the mess. And you can't take stones out of it any more.
Also the room below the stones now enforces you to drop the stone.
I suppose the player can't miss the sword now (I hope!)
Does... the water stream after the big door carry you over the lava? And did you turn it off, so that when you dodge it you're softlocked...
The water stream turns off so that the player, who might wonder if there was a invisible bridge he surfed over and tries to go back, can fall into the lava. 🙂
I also tightened the spot where you hammer the stones setting off the water jet so that the player should have no way to dodge it (I hope!). Thus there is no danger to softlock.
The "Take the minecart to go down into the mines." part is really charming.
But if it's mandatory to do several times to get the hammer and set in the circle gems it becomes tedious.
Actually I added it (besides being cool) to shorten the travel time right cause it has to be done several times. Without a cart travel my personal need for a rp-like entrance to the mines would not have been satisfied.
I really hope the dungeon will get more love now with the chances, cause I actually love some of its features.
Other dungeon (Floating palace) has very few plays and a low clear rate (with tiny N means not much). I still wonder if it is too hard, too confusing or people just ragequit when seeing blowers.
Huge thanks to @warm knoll for trying it all out!
warm knoll
" no way to dodge it (I hope!)" That... Sounds like a challenge.
How about you have a few note tiles at the destination, and those turn off the water by destroying a pot offscreen?
cerulean path
Sadly my gaming mechanics are so bad that I have problems imagining what others can pull off to "challenge" my levels. 😦
warm knoll
NPNP.
You should watch/read the Tears Of The Kingdom Design Philosophy statements!
Or what they are called.
The only "bad" thing when someone is cheesing a level or circumventing one of your contraptions is when they are ACCIDENTALLY punished for it.
In TotK they were very explicit that if you cheesed every shrine with a long bridge or by catapulting yourself over the puzzle, or even by bringing in a rocket shield, that was totally fine. People like getting away with stuff. People like cheating.
warm knoll
Now, the problem is if you do something clever, think you outsmarted the level designer and then get stuck or punished for it.
Then you need to do some debugging, or point it out to the player.
If the player does something "clever" and gets stuck they think:"The level designer is dumb." If and then there's a sign saying "Nice Try!" they think: "Oh darn, they thought of that. I outsmarted myself."
cerulean path
So I have to challenge you - CAN you circumvent the water jet with the items and skill you have?
Also ... the sign idea is good! I could add something like "WTF how did you end up here? Sorry mate... my bad"
warm knoll
Now, if they are rewarded for it, i.e. by getting an item early, they ALSO think "The level designer is dumb." But this time they have fun and feel good about it and want to play more!"
cerulean path
btw. I just realized how you can't end up stuck there...
Shit... If the player travels across, does NOT collect the checkpoint but right dives into the lava. Or... does the room completely reset when you spawn further back? unsure
viral escarp
I’m totally stuck on this. I can’t find a the hammer anywhere, even reading through this stuff. Did something get changed by accident?
cerulean path
With the sword looted, the master workman office gets opened and inside you find the key to the security area at the entrance. Sorry for the irritation. Was my 1st try at a nonlinear dungeon. Pretty tough to let loose and still guide the player. 
cerulean path
Does this help? I was wondering if I could somehow add a hint like "What's that noise at the boss office?" as soon as you loot the sword, but couldn't figure out a good way how. So I hoped the monsters suddenly spawning would give a hint to look around everywhere.
I'd love to spawn a npc on your way back with the sword screaming panic and sending you there, but sadly npcs can only ACTIVATE triggers when spoken to and sadly not spawn or change text as reaction to a trigger.
Maybe just a sign post with illumination? Boring, but doable at least.
However, this dungeon is too confusing and adding more and more signs explaining the stuff only masks the chaos I did while killing the immersion and the non-linear feeling...
cerulean path
Would this work? Would trigger after looting the sword:
Like a coworker, running in panic through the lava, dropping the info to look for the boss.
viral escarp
Ok now I’m confused. Nothing happened when I got the sword. The only thing I was able to do with it was kill the bats that kept harassing me.
cerulean path
After the minecart you passed the senior masterworker office. He had a rude sign in front of his door.
His door should be open now (and he got eaten)
viral escarp
His door was still shut.
I checked everything I could. I’ll have to check again in a bit when I get back home, but I’m really confident nothing changed.
cerulean path
Maybe... a trigger fricked up. Since I can't check if the sword is looted, I put a pressure plate on the ground in front of the sword. I am 96,5% sure you can't pick up the sword without activating it.
If the trigger works, there should snakes spawn everywhere
viral escarp
Yeah no. That never happened, so the trigger must’ve not worked.
How is the plate set up there? Is it a three by one plate across the island?
cerulean path
Sadly no, was one of my early levels - I thought a 1x3 would need more weight
Should definately change that
viral escarp
Yeah no I walked right over that lol. I don’t have the room layout memorized enough to know if it’s possible, but could you use a proximity detector for it?
cerulean path
Ok, thanks SO much! I suppose that killed most peoples attempts. I will try to upload it again. In a cruel twist of fate I tried that for an hour now and ran into 3(!) different absurd softlocks with items getting stuck on conveyors. I will have to fix that as well, but for now rage quit. Will take the level down for now - it's no fun like this.
viral escarp
Oh yeah I forgot to ask about the conveyor. I didn’t know how it worked, but I delivered two blue circle gems to it and I could see on the map one was moving in circles and the other was stuck.
cerulean path
it had always worked for me - till today.
But it's no use, I have to redesign a lot of the dungeon. so it's best to take it down.
viral escarp
That’s fair. Conveyors can be inconsistent sometimes, plus Julian may change things about them once in a while which makes them more unreliable.
cerulean path
Nah, no developer fault. AFAIK changes to the game engine don't effect already uploaded dungeons. Just my bad luck at testing.
viral escarp
Not always, Julian has to intentionally version things, if he doesn’t or forgets, it can break old dungeons. Had it happen to me once when it got changed that whirlwinds suddenly became able to pick up chests lol. Was only a real problem because it happened in one of my contest dungeons.
cerulean path
DUNGEON IS OFFLINE due to major bugs. Will fix it later.
heady pelican
DUNGEON IS OFFLINE due to major bugs. Will fix it later.
I know this isn’t the thread for this, but I couldn’t find one for your new dungeon “A murderer is with us!”; easily the most creative premise of a dungeon I’ve seen. Also very well executed
opaque fog
warm knoll
Hey, now you can make npcs vanish and reappear one square to the left with new dialogue!