🗒｜pronunciation

[stray lantern]

It's because in English "Ah-oo" is represented by "ow", whereas "aw" represents a different sound. (Ohh)

Like lawn or awesome, ohh-some, not ow (auh) some. Some exceptions exist, especially if the word is German in origin, like, "Haus" but not Claus, as in Santa Claus (Claus is still pronounced cl aw s, not cl ow s)

Think of owch, out, spouse "ou" or "ow" almost always have the sound "Ah-oo" but there are exceptions of course cuz this is English. Lol

[ember hatch]

Oh, interesting, so the system that people typically adhere to is based on English's spelling, as opposed to the sound each letter makes. For many European languages ⟨aw⟩/⟨au⟩/⟨äw⟩/⟨äu⟩ would be apt ways to represent that particular sound in pronunciation spelling of English, but I suppose if it's only within an English-speaking context, then ⟨ow⟩ suffices. I think English speakers are typically aware that ⟨a⟩ represents /æ/ (the 'a' sound of 'trap'), but maybe they would be unwilling to sound out the combonation of the letters ⟨a⟩ and ⟨w⟩ as two monographs representing /a/ and /ʊ/ (or /w/) next to one another (as one phoneme/sound), because they're used to thinking of ⟨aw⟩ as a digraph for the phoneme /ɔː/ (also /ɑ/ for some Americans) (as in 'awsome'). It's a shame, though. I think a pronunciation-spelling system based on English's typical spelling patterns is kind of counter-productive to helping people who are beginners, because they're likely unaware of common patterns in English spelling and also probably still think of sounds letter-by-letter, unless their linguistic background involves an even less phonemic orthography than English's

Either way, thanks for explaining the logic behind it

I'm merely rambling here 😅

[stray lantern]

Yeah! You're hitting the nail on the head there. There is the International Phonemic Alphabet, which is a more universal way to represent sound in written language, where you have symbols rather than letters to describe a sound, which is what you're saying.

The IPA for "ow" is (aʊ) and for "aw" it is( ɔː){British} and (ɑː){North American}, which are more akin to the more intuitive way to describe those sounds (if you describe the sound from a non English-speaking perspective).

In theory IPA symbols make the same sound regardless of which language they describe.

[stiff mica]

Tell Arabs about it, between pitches and that word

Since Arabic doesn't have the p sound

I die laughing as I always hear people saying bebsi

BEBSI

BOTETO

BISTATSHIO

LOL

[river lance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0BPAnHnSWY

[late parrot]

Subpar

Help me with this

[scarlet glacier]

Not sure of if i fully followed you too butt representing the sound ou in count with ow is defintely an intuitive option from a native and non native perspective when you run through all the english combinstions

[scarlet glacier]

One reason is because ow meaning pain by itself makes the same sound as ou in couch but also ow can be spelt as ouch so there is this natural cross over

There are other reasons it is intuitive but also many exceptions.

You want your students to start seeing the english perspective of pronounciation so representing it with au or aw would while at first looks like a logical thing to do as you explained it fall apart quickly as aw or au are common iconic combos for the aw sound in awesome or august so you want students to be able to recognise these pair groupings as a single unit as they operate in english language and if aw/ au represent awesome/august sounds would be confusing if aw also represented couch

But when you teach you dont really need to communicate the title of how you group the sounds but i guess through text you need a way to communicate it with english you could have many interpretstions on how to represent certain sounds so there isnt a right answer but if you go through all your option ow for couch is one of the clearest

[violet willow]

supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

[ancient ravine]

It’s good, I can understand you even without the script. I’d say practise your intonation, and enunciation a bit. Additionally, I can also hear the “th’ sound being pronounced as a d in “their” or “the”. It’s one of the hardest sounds for non-native speakers to master in English.

[uncut mist]

you probably perceive <aw> as /aw/ because you know too much about the ipa (I guess most people think that <aw> represents /ɔː ~ ɑ(ː)/ )
(and that's why you perceive <ow> as /ow ~ ɔw/)

[stiff mica]

I mean he got potential

His voice sounds like a Royal guy

Even a prince

[late parrot]

Can anyone help me

[river lance]

what is your native language?

[sacred trench]

my native language is indonesia bro

where do you from?

[river lance]

Are you mathew?

[uncut mist]

yeah mixing accents up is a thing among people who learn english through (social) media

where everything is insanely mixed up obv

if you mix up 'british' and GA I guess you will sound somewhat midatlantic lol

[stray lantern]

"less than average".

Comes from golf culture.

"par" anyway. Like "par for the course", also comes from golf.

[full junco]

whaaat

[silent surge]

Heelp

[cedar bobcat]

Hi, good job! One word to practice more is bouquet. It should sound like "bow-kay." You pronounced it more like bucket.

It comes from Old French.

[river lance]

Would you like to get corrections on your pronunciation?

[languid estuary]

Hey man, i loved your spanish accent, where is it from?

[river lance]

Mexico 🇲🇽

[languid estuary]

Expected that 😭

It's really cool

[river lance]

Gracias 😅

[unkempt mulch]

why can’t I send an image here

The Unbreakable Bond
In the heart of the bustling city, stood a factory where workers toiled day and night. Among them were Sarah and Mark, bonded by their shared struggles. Despite the grueling tasks, they found solace in each other's company. One day, tragedy struck as the factory faced closure. Determined to persevere, Sarah and Mark rallied their fellow workers. Through unity and determination, they transformed their fate. Their unwavering bond became the beacon of hope, proving that together, they were unbreakable, forging a new beginning amidst adversity.

[cedar bobcat]

Very nice job! Your pronunciation is good.

I think you might already know which words were the hardest for you. These might be the ones that need a little bit more practice: persevere, unity, became, amidst.

[river lance]

Would you like to get corrections on your pronunciation?

[unkempt mulch]

Yes

[river lance]

@unkempt mulch is it British accent you're trying to learn? Or American?

[slim flower]

Hello! If I could get help from someone who is rather experienced with the T-H sound (voiced and voiceless) that would be nice. I’m currently struggling with my British accent and trying to get rid of my “d” production

[scarlet glacier]

feel free to dm if you want any specfic help 🙂

[unkempt mulch]

I don’t even know what accent I’m using lol but mostly British

[stray lantern]

What do you need help with? Someone to record, or someone to analyze your pronunciation?

[polar parrot]

Hiii

Hi

[umbral marsh]

anyone interested in reading a short c1/c2lvl essay in the book reading channel? Happening right now

[silent surge]

For Sure

[silent surge]

someone to analyze my pronunciation

[silent surge]

Thanks

[slim flower]

I've sent you a friend request :)) cannot dm you unfortunately

[river lance]

What accent do you want to learn?

[robust glen]

Hello 😄
I was wondering if you could help me with my pronunciation, some words/sounds are quite the tongue twisters for me 🥲 like the ending "ed" and "s" ... any adivice or correction is most welcome!

Thank you in andvance for your time 🙂

Here's the text:

I wandered lonely as a cloud
That floats on high o'er vales and hills,
When all at once I saw a crowd,
A host, of golden daffodils;
Beside the lake, beneath the trees,
Fluttering and dancing in the breeze.

Continuous as the stars that shine
And twinkle on the milky way,
They stretched in never-ending line
Along the margin of a bay:
Ten thousand saw I at a glance,
Tossing their heads in sprightly dance.

The waves beside them danced; but they
Out-did the sparkling waves in glee:
A poet could not but be gay,
In such a jocund company:
I gazed—and gazed—but little thought
What wealth the show to me had brought:

For oft, when on my couch I lie
In vacant or in pensive mood,
They flash upon that inward eye
Which is the bliss of solitude;
And then my heart with pleasure fills,
And dances with the daffodils.

And here the audio file, I hope it works (I read in the pinned messages that using the link is reccomended)
https://voca.ro/127PEQ8bWSdu

[naive sundial]

How’s this?

[silent surge]

American

[silent surge]

Yeah, thanks for correcting me, I didn't notice all that

[silent surge]

I wanna someone to correct my pronunciation.
I wanna learn American accent

[vocal nebula]

I can do that for you.

[silent surge]

Correcting me ?
Ok, I appreciate ur help

[vocal nebula]

Your pronunciation is very good, just speak clearly with a little louder voice.

U can take your time to read aloud so that u can hear your voice and understand what actually u are pronuncing.

[silent surge]

Yup, I'm gonna do that, thanks for ur help

[faint moon]

May I ask a question? Is my pronunciation of the text correct?

[river lance]

I can help if you would like, we can learn the basics of the American pronunciation

[fallen verge]

@river lance help me out also, i wanna correct my pronunciation and learn american accent

[silent surge]

Yeah I'd like that, thanks for ur help

Tell me what should I do

[silent surge]

Unspoken Feelings
Sometimes I stay silent,
not because I have nothing to say,
but because I don’t know how to say it
without breaking down.
There’s a storm inside —
quiet… but relentless.
And I wish someone could hear
the words I’m too tired to speak.
I carry so much behind the smile…
not because I’m strong,
but because I don’t want to be a burden.
Truth is…
I just want to feel seen
without having to explain myself.

[silent surge]

I want someone to correct my pronunciation (American accent)

[river lance]

@fallen vergehttps://discord.com/events/801609515391778826/1447089522738200576

[river lance]

The flap t/d or the flap t

[river lance]

It's a lot, so we might need to talk about it in my event tomorrow

[odd glen]

thanks can do a similar audio bite for US words like "Button"

@river lance tag me when you do it do i can get a notification

[charred cobalt]

When pronouncing the t at the end of words, without any linking to any extra words, I think you can either say/pronounce it with a glottal stop or a fully released t sound, but can you also pronounce such words with an unreleased t?

eg: fright, ant, spent, about, upset, whatnot

---

(I'd appreciate yall's input)

[charred cobalt]

Alright thank you (!), that I was kind of uncertain about. Now, when are we supposed to use each sound when pronouncing a t at the end of words, be it a glottal stop, fully released t, or unreleased t?

[silent surge]

Okk, thanks for explaining

[silent surge]

Okk

[charred cobalt]

you mean the /t/ at the end of a word gets realized as a glottal stop when there's an initial consonant in the next word (eg, about the issue) Otherwise if there's no initial consonant like that in the next word, it's either a flapped t or an unreleased t? Or what do you mean? Could you show me some examples please?

[ember hatch]

I don't know what the distribution of no-audible-release t and glottalised t is, I'd guess they're in free variation word-finally to be honest

I pretty consistently do no audible-release t when it's followed by a plosive

I would never use it when it's followed by th, though. t + voiced th will normally blend into a (?slightly geminated?) dental d

[charred cobalt]

unreleased t?

[charred cobalt]

wdym with "they're in free variation word-finally"?

[charred cobalt]

my example specifically? because it for sure is pronounced with a glottal stop, unless you have another example

(you can check on youglish)

[ember hatch]

no audible-release = unreleased

[charred cobalt]

it should be no-audible-release t since it's a compound adjective

[ember hatch]

They can both occur in the same position (word-finally) with no significant difference

[ember hatch]

yea I jus conceptualise the phrase differently in my brain but I do think you're right

[charred cobalt]

Hmm, I don't know, it seems to be a hard-and-fast rule: when you link a voiceless stop, including /t/, to another consonant, you get a glottal stop, every time

eg, stop that, right now

[ember hatch]

https://youtu.be/FhP0AfZdRZ4?t=207

abouddi

[ember hatch]

.

[charred cobalt]

Idk, it sounds like a glottal stop to me, though she pronounces it very quickly since it's a function word (about)

[ember hatch]

not a glottal stop I'm pretty sure

https://youtu.be/RLz3AYVIqes?t=294

[charred cobalt]

it sounds like a glottal stop, maybe someone else can chime in if you dont hear it

[charred cobalt]

@uncut mist Anyways, I'd appreciate it if you clarified your answer with some examples

[charred cobalt]

mmm, when you link a voiceless stop to another consonant then you get a glottal stop

Assimilation is when you drag out sounds that are similar, both are dental so you kind of blend them together

[ember hatch]

t + th -> tt or 'th

[ember hatch]

Assimilation is when sounds become more similar in any way

nothing about dragging out, really

[charred cobalt]

I don't really agree, it's both

[ember hatch]

but yea, before fricatives (particularly before th), t isn't going to be unreleased (but it can be a glottal stop). Before other stops, it can be unreleased

[charred cobalt]

examples?

[charred cobalt]

I agree some people may not use a glottal stop there, there are many dialects in english

But it'd sound weird to me since I'm used to GenAme

[ember hatch]

Glottal stop: https://youtu.be/tB-Q5RHuV9g?t=69
Unreleased t: https://youtu.be/44Sao11YxWE?t=1495

You can slow them down

[charred cobalt]

I'm uncertain, but I'm curious, would it sound wrong to you to say the unreleased t as a glottal stop in that case "right kid"?

[ember hatch]

Not at all. That's what I mean by in free variation

Both are fine

[charred cobalt]

Alright, I get your point, thank you for your input!!

[ember hatch]

Oh btw, 'football' very often has an unreleased t

and yeah np

[plain trench]

*Anyway

[ember hatch]

Dialectal variance. Refer to these entries from Fowler's, Garner's, and the Chicago Manual of Style. They all acknowledge it as a dialectal or informal variant. Fowler's notes that it's used by Brits informally; the CMOS notes that it's used by educated speakers as well

[plain trench]

Oh, okay. Understandable.

[ember hatch]

[teal leaf]

Hi there. Is there any english person that I can improve my british accent. If there is, feel free to text me. Thanks.

[river lance]

@teal leaf I can help a bit with the British Pronunciation Basics if that helps😅

@silent surge i did not see you in my event 😐 add me to help you with the pronunciation later on

[river lance]

Ok. Allow me to look some words up and explain the pronunciation as well

[hybrid wren]

Im located in Chicago. dm me if you wanna chat.

[ember hatch]

I'm curious if American English allows a tap there. I don't think so? All I can find are glottal stops, and I've found one or two speakers who use a nasally release t, but I can't really find any tap users

(hearing this as a nasal release) https://youtu.be/Ft0IfSTh_jA?t=70

more clear nasal release: https://youtu.be/Wy5w4dg9C2I?t=40

[river lance]

@odd glen

[river lance]

You're right that is NOT a flap t word, it's a glottal stop one

😁

[ember hatch]

seems the options for 'button' are [ˈbʌʔ.n̩] and something like [ˈbʌtⁿ] (at least, the reduced options)

[ember hatch]

That's queer. I'd assume 'button' and 'bottle' would be treated the same, but the latter gets a tap whilst the former does not

[river lance]

Oh yeah its funny how some just have 1 pronunciation

Like only glottal stop

Unlike mountain ⛰️ 🙃

Which has both 🤔👀 glottal and real t

😁

[ember hatch]

(or 'button' and 'abuttal' if you want to have the same vowel for both)

[ember hatch]

does 'mountain' get a flap?

Hmm, I think Americans do use tap t in 'butt in' and 'butting' (which are homophonous with 'button' [supposing g dropping for the latter])

[river lance]

Oh nonono, that one has the normal t and glottal only

I didn't specify

"Cotton" actually has all three

[analog reef]

Hi there. Is there any english person that I can improve my American accent. If there is, feel free to text me. Thanks.

[river lance]

@analog reef I could help, do you know anything IPA? The pronunciation one

[silent surge]

Is it 10 PM Egypt time or not?

[river lance]

Yes, it's just that last event I was really late!, but this Sunday I will be on time 10pm Egypt time 😁 😅

[silent surge]

So it's on every Sunday?

[river lance]

Yeah

@silent surge

[silent surge]

Ok, thanks, I will wait for it

[river lance]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxQUapA-2w4&list=LL&index=2&t=145s

Guys I found this video for the British IPA

😊

[ember hatch]

Yeah people always teach the IPA like 'this is how this symbol sounds' (' … in the context of English in some specific dialect', which they leave unsaid), instead of explaining that the symbol has a specific value generally and that English uses it for broad transcription, but that its exact value in English is going to differ within some continuous region of values/realisations between dialects, sociolects, and idiolects. It's kind of like how many linguists are Eurocentric; most people teaching the IPA are 'Anglocentric', so it sort of starts the learner off with a pretty bad basal understanding

[slim flower]

I study English and had lab phonology and sociophonetics this semester - you’re absolutely right. There is something called “free variation” when it comes to realisations of how a word is pronounced. Butter is a good example. Can be written in two ways as well (I’m on my phone so I can’t transcribe right now). Then there is the complementary distribution where each allophone has its very own environment (dark l vs light l)

When I started uni all they said was “So this is how English is written in the IPA system and we’ll test you based on either RP or GenAM” and then later on told me “oh yeah no this word can be transcribed this way as well, given the dialect” (never taught me any other dialect)

I think unless you specifically study linguistics anything new won’t be taught. I’m in Teacher ED so I only learnt the “outdated” stuff I guess lol

Anything new is often debated for a long time before it becomes universally distributed to schools

[ember hatch]

That's a pretty good point yeah

[slim flower]

Even Labov’s social stratification stuff was heavily debated back then (60s)when he publicated his study in 66

[ember hatch]

But we haven't said /uː/ as [uː] since probably Middle English 😭

[slim flower]

😂😂😂 that’s the fun part! They tell you to say the word out loud and transcribe it and then correct that and you’re just like “huh?”

Makes this simpler for me and I’ll agree with you

😅

AHHHH YEAH

I think that’s where I lost points at my last exam

The goose shit I never understood

[ember hatch]

Yea that's seems accurate Thank you

[slim flower]

Question out of nosy curiosity - why did you choose the “advanced” role when, given your knowledge of English linguistics and generally fluent writing (which I’m guessing is apparent in your speech as well) I would guess you could easily identify as “fluent”

[ember hatch]

Actually, can one call it a split if it's not phonemic? This seems like complementary distribution of allophones (I'm sorry if the question is dumb. I actually don't have a formal education in linguistics or English)

[ember hatch]

Hmm, I suppose I'm fluent insofar as that I'm able to communicate about most topics, even complicated ones, with relative ease. So, communicatively, I'd say I might be fluent. However, I don't believe my accent and reading comprehension are quite on par with a native. I also think that to claim I'm fluent would require I be assessed by either others or a test as worthy of that title. Regardless, the role isn't very well defined. The server puts it above advanced, but even someone at a B1 level is nearing fluency in communication, since they can ask about and discuss most complex topics. I feel it's definitionally nebulous, so that's another reason I avoid it

[slim flower]

Ah I see, well this is discord so it’s more of a self-identification and could be seen as a reflection of our self-confidence in our communicative skills. In my field, we usually try to discriminate based on the modern scale everyone knows by now (A1-C1), however it is hard to define someone’s level of English because many forget you can be in-between those levels.

So I’d take these things with a grain of salt. But if you’re able to partake in academic conversation without lexical, grammatical, social etc struggles then I would instantly flag you as “fluent”.

[slim flower]

Native-speakerism comes at play here. We are often challenged by the media and judged based on our pronunciation. English is, however, not German. There are a lot of Englishes starting from the US to India. I personally am trying to “improve” and adapt to an accent because native-speakerism is still big at uni

[ember hatch]

That's true. I've seen people who've judged themselves as intermediate, whom I would've labelled as beginners (and vice versa). Perhaps I'm misjudging myself as they did themselves. Regardless, you said it. It's about personal subjective perception, at least on Discord. I normally think of 'fluent' as someone worthy of C2, which I believe myself not to be

[ember hatch]

Yeah, I don't really think of the intermediate states much (that might be ambiguous, I'm using intermediate to mean in-between). Perhaps I lie somewhere therein, between C1 and C2. In which case, I would always think a floor opporation down to C1 would be better than a ceiling to C2. (That is, I would choose advanced instead of fluent.) And yeah, I'm relatively able to speak on academic matters, so I suppose by your standards I would in fact be fluent. Thanks for your assessment :>

[ember hatch]

Yeah, in the end, comprehensibility is paramount. Accent is secondary, I suppose, but I don't know if it factors into the level typology (A1–C2)

I'll try to not go crazy about it haha 😅

[finite sapphire]

to be fair german, despite being very standardized, also has a lot of different accents even throughout Germany itself, let alone Switzerland and Austria and northernmost Italy. And a lot of regional vocabulary blended into this "standardized" language, so it does become a lil bit difficult to understand even between native speakers, sometimes

there is maybe even more complexity when you realize that "German" doesn't even exist, there's the standardized language, but then not only do some natives have different accents, some have entirely different dialects with majority of the words being different...

[slim flower]

I’m well aware of that but I’ve learnt while (still) living in a German speaking country that they’re not as lenient with your accent as English should be, given its colonisation history (that neither Germany nor Austria really has)

Making the issue of native speakerism odd to me and a topic we learn in CLT thoroughly

German has many accents and dialects, I agree with you there, but that wasnt my point there 😅. English, given its history, has spread and there are many Englishes. Still, schools seem to highly praise British or American English and the media does so too. Many teachers don’t even try to introduce children to other Englishes (e.g. English spoken in India) when English is a lingua Franca in many countries

And this mentality is also spreading to language learners in general, where they see British English / GenAm as superior

Historically speaking, many Englishes deserve praise

[finite sapphire]

Germany colonized Africa around 1884, that's also when France took control of the entire Vietnam and was trying to establish its french colonies in asia

there are entire books written about german colonization there

[finite sapphire]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austrian_colonial_policy

https://www.globalhistories.com/index.php/GHSJ/article/view/540

specifically:
"Austrians erect the St. Joseph and St. Maria forts, A trading post (factory) was built, and the factory quickly began to thrive under Austrian rule, also due to their participation in the slave trade."

"Habsburg East India Company of Trieste-Antwerp (1775–1785). Beyond that, the company trade of enslaved people constituted a key part of the company’s commercial endeavors."

[finite sapphire]

Both Germany and Austria really have a violent history of colonization, Germans in Africa, and Austria shorter period but existed in India

I understand your point about English, though. It is sad that such things happen

[slim flower]

Guess Austrian high schools seem to have “forgotten” about these things (we mostly stop history lessons at WW2 and they don’t mention colonization) so my bad there. I’ll look through that!

Their language however hasn’t spread over other continents the way English has, not to that extent. German is a popular language to learn and their speakers genuinely (especially in Austria) aren’t as tolerant in rural areas about accents (by experience and reports. We only now started to integrate non-Austrian students genuinely)
A new pedagogical branch opened this year where you can study to become a teacher for non-native speakers. There are also plans for better integration now through summer schools for those who struggle with the language. Tolerance towards immigration is still quite low but has been slowly improving. Children just now become aid. Discrimination due to accent is a real phenomenon.

English meanwhile has spread and imo shouldn’t have “prestige” Englishes yet still some Englishes hold prestige over others. In linguistics we learnt very firmly that there is no superior English anymore since colonization.

Sorry for the little rant there. Very interesting and thanks for the correction. I guess I’m just tired of this “you have to talk this way” to be accepted in society

[finite sapphire]

Yeah I just wanted to bring that one up, because I am aware that it all happened and that's why I mentioned it. I can see that, yeah. I live on the polish-german border, but I haven't really noticed that much discrimination. Although I suppose I'm not very sociable so hm maybe I just didn't see that, plus, it's not rural Austria around here. Makes sense though

[ornate matrix]

Hello, all! I have a question.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/often

When I check this page, it seems that the word "often" has two possible pronunciations. Is it true? I mean is it like either and neither?

[fallen verge]

@river lance when is the event ?

[river lance]

no event today coz of emergency but I will upload a vid on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/@Bryanlanguages22610@fallen verge

[hoary spear]

@river lance Sorry, I watched your video about how to say "put the" (eg, put the phone away). You said it's pronounced with a glottal stop, but is it ever pronounced with an unreleased t, or when do we use the unreleased t in english, only at the end of words?

In wikipedia, I found you can pronounce words with both a glottal stop and a t with nonaudible release at the same time, if I got it right:

Pre-glottalization of /t/ is found in RP and General American (GA) when the consonant /t/ occurs before another consonant, or before a pause:

pre-consonantal: get some [ˈɡɛʔt‿ˌsʌm] lightning [ˈlaɪʔtnɪŋ] at last [əʔt‿ˈlæst]
final (pre-pausal): wait [weɪʔt] bat [bæʔt] about [əˈbaʊʔt]

||The glottal closure overlaps with the consonant that it precedes, but the articulatory movements involved can usually be observed only by using laboratory instruments. In words such as 'eaten' and 'button', pronounced with a glottal closure, it is generally almost impossible to know whether the /t/ has been pronounced (e.g. [ˈiːʔtn̩], [ˈbʌʔtn̩]) or omitted (e.g. [ˈiːʔn̩], [ˈbʌʔn̩]).||

[river lance]

Don't say sorry 😐, thank youuu for watching my video and commenting ❤️

[hoary spear]

What do you think if you dare say so, is it or is it not possible to use an unreleased stop there?

[ember hatch]

When t is followed by a th, they often merge into one sound often (or they at the very least merge in location). Glottalisation is still possible though

[pʊ̽t̪̚‿t̪ə]
[pʊ̽t̪̚‿ðə]
[pʊ̽ʔ ðə]

All three of these are reasonable. Wikipedia mentions the first and the third, but the second does not sound off at all

[river lance]

@hoary spear what is your native language?

[boreal meadow]

Dude are you American?

I mean your accent

[river lance]

😅 I'm did not grow up in the State but in Mexico

[river lance]

Yes I speak with an American accent

[boreal meadow]

I mean your accent is so good

I'd like to improve my English pronunciation like Americans

[river lance]

😊

[boreal meadow]

You help people in here right? Or what?

[river lance]

https://discord.com/events/801609515391778826/1447089522738200576

[boreal meadow]

Okay i joined

Thanks for that, it really helps a lot

[river lance]

I also sent you a friend request

[boreal meadow]

Okay, I'll try to accept it

[ornate matrix]

Thanks a lot, Rick 👍.

[muted wharf]

..

[coarse bronze]

..

[rare field]

@ebon raven

Can I talk to you

[hoary spear]

Hiii, I'm trying to learn American English, so I have a q about how you pronounce "dawg" differently than "dog", is it with a diphthong or different vowel? I heard it most often as a term of address, so I wondered if they were pronounced any different. Ping me please

[ember hatch]

This is accent-dependent. The LOT-CLOTH split is a split where some words' vowels cross over from the LOT set to the THOUGHT set; these make up the CLOTH set. This all presupposes that your accent differentiates the LOT and THOUGHT sets at all; many American accents have what is known as the COT-CAUGHT merger, whereby LOT words and THOUGHT words are pronounced with the same vowel. However, the LOT-CLOTH split is common in American accents that don't merge these vowels. Traditionally, its occurrence was restricted to before voiceless fricatives only; however, in American accents, it can also happen before the velar nasal (ng), and, much more variably, before [g]. 'On' and 'chocolate' are also part of the set for some people. It's not predictable whether a person will do it before g, but 'dog' is among the most consistently transformed by those who possess this split. What do they realise CLOTH as? They realise it howsoever they realise THOUGHT. New Yorkers will have an inglide after the first vowel, that is, they will say [ɔə] or [oə]. For some southerners (I believe Texans don't do this, though, but do correct me if I'm mistaken), the vowel is a closing diphthong/has an upglide: [ɑɔ], [ɒɔ], [ɒo], [ɔʊ]. That is to say that the pronunciation varies depending on how the speaker pronounces the THOUGHT set, on whether they exhibit the LOT-CLOTH split, and, if they do, also on whether they produce the split before [g] and if 'dog' is part of their idolect's CLOTH set

People spell it as 'dawg' sometimes because it's a very marked dialectal pronunciation, which they would like to indicate

Some Americans might say 'dog' with [ɔ] or [ɔː], if that is how they realise THOUGHT, but I'm unsure where that might be

[toxic ingot]

so im having an accent problem when i was a kid i learnt american english through an american bilingual school but after moving away from a private school to a government-based school, they use the British accent

and i also gained the accent throughout the internet by watching english speaking videos n such

so rn i wanna go with american english just because it sounds crisp , clear

unlike the British accent, let just say it weird....

but idk how do i like

get used to it

and learn it naturally

[willow relic]

This command moved to Slash Commands /rank.

[tired night]

HEY QUIT TAKING THE PISS Is what I would say if I was a Brit

[ember hatch]

Listen to Americans, notice what you say differently to them, learn to produce the right sound, and correct yourself every time you produce the wrong one, even in mid-speech. Practise. You can get your mouth used to producing the sound by speaking to yourself out loud and using it: you practise freely, without the social pressure of conversation

Shadowing would be a good supplement as well

[ember hatch]

Normally, people who say that have one specific British accent in mind: the young London working-class male sort of accent. Do note that there are many British accents and many American accents, so inevitably some accents on both sides of the pond will sound weird to you.

[shy flame]

hi im new so i dont know every rule here is it okay if i ask someone native or fluent to read the text that i send (around 300words) so i can copy their accent?

[delicate oak]

guys how do y'all pronouns these ones?
(bat/batch/bet)

[wintry widget]

Hello guys, I need help pronouncing the herbs called parsley and celery

[ember hatch]

What are you struggling with?

Do you just want to know how they're said, or is there a sound you can't make?

[wintry widget]

How Natives sayin it.

[ember hatch]

Listen to them here:

https://youglish.com/pronounce/parsley_and_celery/english

Switch between the instances with the arrows

[wintry widget]

Ty for the help!

Now I got a new word from the (Garnish) xD ❤️

[tulip remnant]

How come you used brackets?

[boreal meadow]

Is the event today? I mean American pronunciation.

[ebon vigil]

My friend used too many full stops

In sentence

[fossil falcon]

and? sometimes people do it to slow down what they are saying or to emphasize something

[ebon vigil]

It's cringe and annoying

[fossil falcon]

so. what.

[ebon vigil]

yeah he types like that

I hate it

[fossil falcon]

haha you’re allowed to hate it but let him express himself how he likes

[ebon vigil]

I just hate it hhahaha

don't know it annoys the shit out of me

[ember hatch]

unreasonable passion against full stops

[crystal bough]

I dunno where to ask this but could someone please listen to my English pronunciation and tell me what I could improve? I have an oral exam on Friday and therefore am very anxious about it, especially because people tell me I sound British while I explicitly tried to learn the GenAm accent.

[lavish hollow]

hi

[fierce oak]

Hi

[dire lagoon]

Sure!

You can hit me up i am accent coach specializing in the GenAm

[woeful pilot]

Sure mate

[lime python]

That’s the worst sentence to practice with that’s a tongue twister. It’s meant to be hard to practice on purpose.

[glass crypt]

it comes from stimuler

[glass crypt]

welp, what should I do then?

[plucky zinc]

It's difficult

[river lance]

Are the iPa classes canceled ?

[shell flicker]

yo,run that back

[placid pebble]

what do you even mean bro?

[rocky kettle]

Friends who want to practice????

[south karma]

Me

Anybody else wants to spec with me

[umbral marsh]

anyone willing to review some homophones together in the book reading channel? happening rn

[lavish escarp]

hi

[boreal meadow]

I have a question, how to pronounce "thing" i know it's simple question, but anyway it's hard to me. To clarify the question, I'm talking about sound "TH" it's different ways to pronounce this sound, but can you tell me about "thing". Pronunciation of the sound "TH" there's one on YouTube, but specifically an example with the "Thing" i couldn't find.

[ember hatch]

You can find that in dictionaries

Or look it up on Youglish

https://youglish.com/

[boreal meadow]

Thanks it helped a lot

[glass crypt]

stimuler

[plush hamlet]

Give me some tongue twister I can start by it

[charred cobalt]

I wanted to ask what the difference is in SBE between saying the diphthongs in, "boat" and "about". To me both sound as /əʊ/

[ember hatch]

If you could provide a recording, that would be quite helpful. While southern accents do tend to front and open the GOAT set, it's generally still distinct from mouth, even if it sounds quite close to it. Actually, normally both GOAT and MOUTH are rather far away from proto-typical /əʊ/, unless the dialect at hand is SSB or RP. Some dialects monophthongise the MOUTH set to a long /æː/ or /aː/. You might also hear a more fronted offglide for mouth (which is also possible with GOAT). GOAT might be rounded the whole way through, depending on the accent

Either way, all those possibilities above still leave MOUTH and GOAT distinct, so I feel like this might be something else, perhaps you misheard a speaker?

If you mean standard non-posh accents, these would actually be sort of similar to the American realisations and shouldn't cause any misunderstandings or confusion

I can't find much about a GOAT-MOUTH merger

[charred cobalt]

On a second thought, they do sound very different, I think about might be realized with the diphthong /æʊ/, IDK if that may be possible

[ember hatch]

That doesn't seem absurd, but it sounds a bit American to my ears

Generally, MOUTH starts out more open and further back than [æ] I believe

Actually, here, West Country English actually starts the diphthong at [æ] according to Wikipedia, but the end is strongly fronted

[naive sundial]

I’m ignoring any comment since I do what I do for fun, not obligation.

[inland yarrow]

How are u guys

I wanna improve my English level, what should I do?😞

[silk valley]

What do you struggle with the most?

[potent grail]

halo

[charred cobalt]

This was lingering on the back of my mind. Do British then realize mouth and goat as /mʌʊθ/ and /ɡəʊt/ respectively? (Idk what the ipa means by a in /maʊθ/)

[ember hatch]

You really seem to have the idea that there is just one British accent 😅

The realisations you gave are possible for very posh, older, southern speakers

[äʉ]/[äw] and [əʉ]/[əw] are very neutral Standard Southern British English pronunciations, if thas what you're looking for

[charred cobalt]

I need to learn this. I don't know what the diacritic means, I looked it up and it says centralized, also the crossed out u sounds like /ʊ/ to me. But apparently it's centralized rather than in the back. Do you have a youtube channel to watch that were useful to you to understand the british vowel chart, or vowel chart in general?

[naive sundial]

https://youtube.com/shorts/UfxZAcfxvck
What accent is this?

From the intonation it’s a LLM, but I mean, which accent does it use?

[ember hatch]

I don't have a specific YouTube channel for specifically British vowels, sorry. I'd recommend gaining a stronger understanding of broad vs narrow transcription. Linguists may transcribe English as having /uː/, but that transcription is based on historical standards (that were a bit erroneous). Regardless, /uː/ is the phoneme corresponding to the GOOSE set, and this phoneme will be realised differently by different people of different dialects. These are the phonetic realisations. Some dialects may gain or lose phonemes (lack or have splits and mergers). You should understand that each symbol has its exact value. When written in square brackets, [uː] is quite a distinct sound that we don't really ever produce in English nowadays. There is such a thing as cardinal vowels, and relative to those, the diacritics apply. I'd typically go with the Wikipedia recordings of the cardinal vowels, but perhaps checking out several IPA charts with recordings should give you a general idea (linguists don't really agree on the exact qualities of these cardinals sometimes, lol). There is one at Wikipedia, there is also this one with three recording sets (including the Wikipedia ones), and you can check this synthesised version too. I quite like it for the vowels right at the edges. The idea is that if you know those, you can understand what linguists mean when a vowel is centralised (more front or back, to the vertical centre), mid-centralised (towards schwa), advanced, retracted, raised, lowered, etc. . For the IPA, vowels, transcription, and more generally phonology and phonetics, I'd recommend Dr Geoff Lindsey's YouTube channel. Here is a playlist of his. I'd also recommend AccentHelp for vowels, particularly American. Here is one playlist of choice. I would also recommend reading Wikipedia on various English accents and going, naturally, down the Googling and Wikipedia-hyperlink rabbit holes that will surely beckon you. These two Geoff Lindsey videos are a must-watch, also, but bear in mind that his system challenges the most common norm for English transcription: about how the traditional transcription system is bad and about how the vowel chart. You might also gain a better understanding of how one phoneme can represent different sounds (phones) in different accents by watching this short one.

If you're up to reading an introduction to phonology, I've heard good things about the textbook Understanding Phonology by Carlos Gussenhoven. The linguistics subreddit also recommends these:

• Philip Carr. Phonology. (1993).
• Bruce Hayes. Introductory Phonology. (2009).
• John Jensen. Principles of Generative Phonology. (2004).
• Paul de Lacy. The Cambridge Handbook of Phonology. (2007).
• David Odden - Introducing Phonology. (2005).

More English-focused books, rather than phonology-focused, would be English After RP: Standard British Pronunciation Today by Geoff Lindsey, Accents of English (Three Volumes) by J.C. Wells, and if you'd like something American English-focused, check out The Atlas of North American English by William Labov.

Edit: You might find the idea of lexical sets helpful; I strongly recommend reading the former of these and referencing the latter when need arises: Wikipedia and Lexical Sets for Actors by Eric Armstrong

[charred cobalt]

THANK YOU. I'll defo be checking those books, they sound like a must-read (I'll be saving your answer for eternity lol so useful to navigate english phonology)

[ember hatch]

I'm very happy to help! I would like to note that some of the books Reddit recommended are at a higher level, so make sure to not jump right into those. I haven't read or even cursorily perused most of them (I've mainly used/referenced The Atlas of North American English, Accents of English, and Understanding Phonology, alongside many Wikipedia articles), so I can't tell you which would be an easier read. So you should look up and read about whichever one you decide to use

[charred cobalt]

Right! I already stumbled on that problem the first time I tried to get into english phonology, I cold-plunged headfirst into it hah

I'll start with English After RP: Standard British Pronunciation Today, Accents of English, or he Atlas of North American English (alongside wiki, and a yt video here and there)

[ember hatch]

Good luck

[silent surge]

I wanna someone to correct my pronunciation, and I wanna learn American accent

[dire stone]

I am here to level up my language

[onyx agate]

Hi

[timid robin]

Hi

[burnt basalt]

Hi all. How would you describe her pronunciation? Can you spot any regional influences in it? Link: https://www.usmessageboard.com/data/video/1219/1219860-36ee6b476b5239021c2cc55dec12e348.mp4

[ember hatch]

It seems like a fairly standard American accent. They seem to demonstrate ash tensing inconsistently with the word 'mounting' though

[burnt basalt]

Can you hear any foreign undertone in her pronunciation?

[ember hatch]

not really no

[burnt basalt]

That's interesting, especially if you are an English native speaker yourself. She's in fact 100% Polish, and Polish is among the languages known to be notoriously different from English in terms of their phonetic features, so I guess her phonetic skills are to be highly commended.

[ember hatch]

The only note I could really make is that she sounds stiff, but that can be chalked up to the fact that this isn't natural speech, but a commercial or tutorial of sorts

[hoary spear]

Sorry. I was reading this and I wondered if how you used "of sorts" might be a synonym of "more or less"?

[ember hatch]

It's similar in meaning to 'something like' or 'something resembling'. It generally signifies that something isn't quite entirely what it's described as being. It can more generally signify incredulity in dubbing something a particular way. Here, I was not quite certain that it was a commercial or tutorial, but I knew it was something in that realm, so I tacked on 'of sorts' to signify that it doesn't exactly match what one might conceive of as being a tutorial or commercial. I'd say that it's not uncommon to use the expression so, as hedging

[hoary spear]

Okay, it drew my attention because I've never heard it before, maybe it's more common outside america? Also, another definition for it seems to be "below average" or "of low quality"

[ember hatch]

I looked it up before sending my message and was surprised at this definition. I've personally not heard it used like that. An example one of the dictionaries gave was 'he writes poetry of sorts'. I'd personally take that to mean 'he writes something that resembles poetry but doesn'r conventiona.lly match what you might think of as poetry'. I can see how 'something resembling poetry' can easily carry a negative connotation, but I wouldn't readily interpret it so (going off of my intuition)

[hoary spear]

So the takeaway here is that it means kind of the same thing as sort of or kind of, but it's inverted

I bought a book of sorts -> I bought kind of a book
I made a summary of sorts -> I made kind of a summary

[ember hatch]

I'd say Wiktionary's definition matches up much better with my understanding

[hoary spear]

Okay, so to me it reads exactly the same as kind of or sort of, but with a slightly more formal tone

in that sense

[hoary spear]

I haven't either, so I was confused when I tried to figure out the meaning with which you used it 😅

[ember hatch]

I wouldn't say 'kind of' and 'sort of' (when they come beforehand) exactly match. To me, those make the thing seem like it's a subcategory of whatever is being mentioned. 'A kind/sort of summary' -> 'There are several types of summary; I've made one of them'. However, if you mean 'kind of' and 'sort of' when they come after, then, yeah, I'd say it's exactly the same but more formal: 'I made a summary, kinda/sorta/kind of/sort of'

[hoary spear]

Note that it's "sort of a summary" not "a sort of summary"

[ember hatch]

oh, I misread that. That jus sounds odd tbh

[hoary spear]

Sorry for the typo before 😅

Maybe(?)

I made, kind of, a summary

[ember hatch]

I think normally I see 'kinda' and 'sorta' come after a full phrase/clause or before a verb

I sorta made a summary
I made a summary, sorta

But not

I made(,) sorta(,) a summary

I am curious what natives think though

[hoary spear]

Oh I can't send images here, but on youglish it says

That is just kind of a summary of part of it

Well, it's kind of a summary statement that means...

[ember hatch]

hmm, those sounds okay actually, weird

did you specifically look for 'it's kind of a summary', or just for 'kind of a summary'?

I think this might be the difference

[hoary spear]

I think here it works as an interjection of sorts (😅 )

[hoary spear]

the latter

Also:

And so we made em, we made kind of a mistake reaching for this, I think.

-> We made a mistake of sorts

which to me reads the same

[ember hatch]

yea that one sounds really weird to my ears. This might be a gap in my intuition though, so I'd pick a native's brain about it, see what patterns they accept, see if they're okay with 'kind of' after 'to be' but not after other verbs, or if they're okay with it in a sentence like the above

This is informal language so there aren't hard rules

[hoary spear]

I think this is a good assumption, what do you think? To me it sounds slightly more formal to use "of sorts"

[hoary spear]

Yes, to me it sounds perfectly natural to be frank

Although at first I said "I wrote a kind of book", but I really meant "I wrote kind of a book" to make my point it's similar to using "of sorts"

[ember hatch]

It does mean basically the same thing as 'kind of' and 'sort of' and is more formal. What I was disagreeing with was the validity of the example sentences, I suppose, but, otherwise, the meaning is the same, yeah

[hoary spear]

Thank you!!

[ember hatch]

No problem! :>

[covert cosmos]

How can I improve my pronunciation?

[finite summit]

i could help you if you send a sentence!

[covert cosmos]

Oh okay I will read this text
Learning a new language takes time and practice. Sometimes it feels difficult, but with patience and effort we can improve step by step. Making mistakes is normal, and every mistake helps us learn something new.

[finite summit]

I see! You need to loosen up a bit. When you are talking you sound robotic like so dont make sound like you have a period each word.

[dry nova]

Hello everyone hope you’re all doing well so i am here to practice and improve my English

[naive sundial]

You need to say phrases then compare them to native ones then correct them.

Focus on the three aspects:
Consonants, vowels, and prosody.

To improve prosody you have to make phrases of yr own then compare them to native ones.

[covert cosmos]

Oh okay thank u guys 💕

[odd fog]

Pronunciation is often considered more accessible than grammar or vocabulary; one can improve significantly through immersion, such as watching films or listening to native speakers.

[strong forge]

I wanted to get rid of my Indian accent anyone can recognise I'm from India and they either exit the conversation or being racist to me for being indian.
Any good ways to to improve my accent ?

[eager yew]

Any AAVE experts here ? I wanna try to learn their pronunciation but there's a lot less good material than on standard american English . where can I find something on it ?

[low tapir]

What british accent is this? An AI told me it's the nottingham accent

[cloud plover]

If you haven’t already watch Abbott Elementary they use it a lot and the show is very good

[ancient flame]

me too

[exotic crypt]

hi

[exotic crypt]

me

[river lance]

Hello, Everyone

[glass rune]

heyy there

how have you been?

[distant steeple]

it is

[low tapir]

Do they pronounce 'does' normally or do they say 'dowz'?

Like how they pronounce "struggle" with a 'o'? 'StrU-gle'?

I hope you understand my terrible explanation lol

[ember hatch]

When 'does' is stressed, it should have the same vowel as 'cut', 'foot', 'young', 'put', 'struggle' for him, yes

when it's unstressed he'll use a schwa

[shut crest]

Hello

[trail shard]

say this: heh low

[distant steeple]

anything but pronunciation

[mental moss]

https://discord.com/channels/1479412646695407700/1479412647513554989

[fossil jay]

Hello everyone! I’m new here 😊
I’m currently looking for someone who’s interested in practicing English speaking. I’d love to connect you with my partner, as he’s also looking to improve his speaking skills.

Feel free to message me if you’re interested! Just to clarify, I’m not selling anything—just helping my partner find a practice buddy.

[trail shard]

How good is he in english

[pallid surge]

I am interested. Please let him DM me

[cinder lion]

intersting ...

[urban vessel]

Hello i improve my english too. Send me a message in DM please.

[lime pasture]

@fossil jay im intrested

I am interested in meeting people and joining a community to practice my English and improve my language skills

[spice rain]

is 'Apparently' pronouned like 'Apparentli' or like ' parentli' ???????

[ember hatch]

You might hear the latter in fast speech

[ember panther]

.

[sonic locust]

What is prosody?

[naive sundial]

The stress, intonation, and rhythm of speech.

[exotic urchin]

Hello guys, i’ m a new member of The server

I’m a beginer, and personnaly i think my level english is A1

I’m happy to join the server to speak whith all members and develop my english level 🙂

My name’s Johnson Prosper, but de can call me Prosper 🙂

[last fiber]

Is anyone interested in practicing the american accent together? Feel free to dm me 🙌

[ruby sigil]

Hi i'm search for someone to talk about animes, umamusume or digital art! 🙂

[craggy gulch]

Hi I like to draw and I like animes! Can we talk?

[ruby sigil]

of courseeee

@craggy gulch https://discord.com/channels/801609515391778826/1486782464243269702

[craggy gulch]

I'll send the request

[tulip remnant]

Isn't that enunciation?

[ember hatch]

Prosody is about the rhythm, stress, and intonation that are overlaid upon the consonant and vowel segments produced. Generally, it's about how a language rhythmically sounds overall. Enunciation is the act of emphasising each phonetic segment (like each syllable or each consonant, for example) such that it is distinctively articulated

I would say 'stress' is a part of enunciation, yeah

But prosody is much more about the melodic quality of the language, and stress can play a role in that

[tulip remnant]

Aahhh, thank you for that great explanation @ember hatch

[naive sundial]

Nope. Unless you add articulation as well.

[molten bough]

helo

[rocky lark]

Ok so I'm native to english but I still don't know how to say this word, it may be a regional thing but where I used to live Elementary is pronounced [Ella-men-tary] compared to where I now live where it is pronounced [Ella-men-tree] are both of these right? Or are only one of these correct?

[silk valley]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/elementary

[silk valley]

both are fine

[rocky lark]

Thank you so much

[burnt granite]

Struggling with pronunciation, any fun tips?

Something weird that for some reason works?

[forest zodiac]

What was the name of the dirty and smelly water?

[willow totem]

Hi! I'm new here. My English is very weak. I'm hesitant to speak with native speakers because I'm afraid I'll mispronounce words. Do you have any tips or advice for me? My typing might not be very clear because my English is so weak 😔

[finite sapphire]

well nobody has to speak with an actual native speaker-like accent anyway, when americans or brits or canadians or whoever learn other languages, they also preserve a foreign accent

[river lance]

Honestly, just speak. No one will care if you mispronounce a word, at least not as much as you think they will.

[runic scroll]

Hi everyone! I’m new here 🙂
I’m learning English and want to improve my speaking.
Nice to meet you!

I want to learn English from native speaker.

[near bear]

Which accent are you trying to replicate?

Remember, one will always have accent, even a native speaker will have it.

[near bear]

Uhh... Not my case, but I had few things that helped me improve a lot my accent.

[runic scroll]

I want to know.

[near bear]

Maybe I'll get to chat later, I'm gonna take a bath now.
Basically, I tried listen to the words being pronounced, and also tried learning IPA, it sounds tedious, but it is quite fun (for me at least) depending on how you do it, and it can have a large differenceon your pronunciation. Just always remember to aim a specific accent of your choice.

The accent of choice doesn't need to be RP, Midwest US, or whatever. I for example, I'm starting to learn Boston's accent.

Since I find it's phonology charming, and because I'd rather say that you need to move something just a dight than say just a bit; or wicked good instead of very good, and so on.

My grammar might not be the best, so as my speech speed, but I managed to improve dramatically my phonetic accuracy.

Try rolellaying with yourself also, or thinking out loud in English, it makes your mind used to speak English with a mindset more similar of a native speaker, at least for me.

It took one or two years to get to this point though.

And that time was what took me to get from almost 0 phonetic fidelity to any native accent at all to general American, to RP, then to London Accent, and currently into Boston accent.

Basically, from newbie to starting to acquire Boston's accent.

I am getting out of the bath, wait a sec before I start looking for call rooms on this server.

@runic scroll

Also, welcome here, I don't know how much time have you been here, I came just yesterday here.

Not even full 24h yet

[runic scroll]

that's okay.

That's amazing.

you tried hard before.

[near bear]

Ehhh... Here goes a fun fact: I didn't originally intended to study IPA to improve phonetics, I just stumbled upon it after trying to be a conlanger, as it is the default form of transcribing how a word is pronounced, but the fact that I stumbled upon it obligated me to modify my phonetics and here the cycle started, by pure chance.

Room 3.1? @runic scroll Y/N

[runic scroll]

Y

[willow totem]

Do you have any techniques for memorizing English words?

[burnt granite]

That's true, I'm trying to replicate a native accent

[spring pendant]

music, at least thats how i could remember several words

ooo, avatar decoration brothers!!

[willow totem]

I listen to music a lot, but my brain rejects the translation, haha🥲👍🏻

[burnt basalt]

Hello all. I was windering how you would characterize the pronunciation of the person from this clip: https://packaged-media.redd.it/tgj84rmv0vqg1/pb/m2-res_640p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&c=wh_ben_en&var=sgpssan&v=1&e=1774483200&s=5e2bad99872c2485fe4a97d3996f490d745d17c0 Can you hear anything unusual in it?

[near bear]

I personally can't hear anything really unusual at all.

I tried doing a phonetic transcription of it

Lemme upload it real quick.

Uh oh, I can't annex images here, lemme digitalize the transcription real quick.

Probably an American accent or an accent which shares many characteristics with an American accent, due to the /æ/ vowel, t flapping, and also how it sounds abundantly rhotic.

[jɛs aj no͡w̯ maj ajs lʊ̞k vɜɹɪsmɑ͡ɫ wɛ̃nɐ̆j wɪɚ glæsɜs ajᵐ lɪɾ(ɚ)ɜlɪ ʃoɹt͡s sajɾeᵈ bəʔ le̞t͡s mʊvə̃]

That's what I heard from the video analyzed.

@burnt basalt

[ember hatch]

I'll give transcribing this a go, seems like fun

[near bear]

It's always nice to have someone else to verify the same clip, sometimes oddities are found this way.

[ember hatch]

[jɛs‿æe̞ nɛ̝̈w̟‿mäe̞‿ʔæe̞z̥ lək v̥ɛ̠ɹ̠i smɔ̜̝ɫ wɪ̽n æe̞‿wɛ̠ɚ glæsəz (..) ʔäe̞m lɪ̽ɾɚli ʃo̞ɹ̠tˢäe̞ɾɪ̽d̚ bə̰t̚ (.) lɜt̞s mʉw‿vɔ̜̝-]

(Some of the diacritics don't display well on Discord on my side)

[calm delta]

Yo how u doin

[ember hatch]

Hi? I'm doing fine

[calm delta]

Need u to pronounce this word for me "DETERIORATING"

[ember hatch]

are you able to join the vc?

I can record it too I suppose, gimme a sec

[mellow shuttle]

Hey guys what's up can someone tell me how pronounce this word >misogynistic<

[blazing bobcat]

GenAm respelling: mih-SAH-jih-nih-stik
GenAm IPA: /mɪsɑ́dʒɪnɪstɪk/

[blazing bobcat]

jɛ́s ɐ́j nɵ́ʊ̟̑ mɐ́j ʔɐ́ˑȇ̞z̥ lɵ̜́ˀk v̊ɛ́ˑɹ̠i smɒ̝́ˑɫ w̟ə̆n ɐ́ȇ̞ wɛ̠́ɹ̈ gɫǽˑsɘ̆z̥ ʔɐ́ȇ̞m ɫɪ́ɾɚ̆(ə)lɪ̆ ʃó̞ɹ̈t̚‿sɐ́ȇ̞ɾᵻ̆d̥̚ bʌ̈t̚ ɫɛ̠́ts mǘwv‿ɑ(n)

(no happY tensing?)
pretty retracted DRESS (I'd associate it with ncvs but I guess I'm wrong lol)
glide reduction (only to a certain extent)
no cot-caught merger

Definitely can't consider it GenAm. I'd guess they're from the south of the US

[mellow shuttle]

Thanks so much

[blazing bobcat]

yw

[mellow shuttle]

I appreciate you

[ember hatch]

np

[native hemlock]

I am having difficulty with the r sound

Any advice is appreciated

[patent burrow]

happy easter :]

[craggy flax]

i have advice

you know how growls sound?

send me avoice message, ill sya what to fix

I wint be sending voice messages, as i am remaining completely confidential

[deft tartan]

Hello

[lethal tulip]

the most difficult thing on earth for me are numer 30 31 32 33 .... pronunciation. I always just say for example if I want to say 33 I just say number three and three, and it is bc I tryed many time to say it properly and people were not understanding it that I just pass the situation by doing this trick that works for me. But I am still practicing and after a few years of practice now I am starting to say it and people is understanding, so proud of me haha

[finite sapphire]

thirty three has two th sounds, and the english th sound is extremely rare in other languages, I think it almost doesn't exist anywhere on the planet except for in this language in particular. I think I would not be mistaken if I said that most non-native english speakers struggle with th, or at least used to struggle with it at some point

you may notice that people from different backgrounds just tend to replace it with either "t" or "d" or "s" or "f", but none of these are actual th. And it is useful to be able to say it, because, for example, "fuss" vs "thus" sound the same if you can not say th

or "thin" and "sin" also sound the same for the people who just ignore th and replace it with "s" (usually in asian accents I think)

I understand your pain because to me it's not very intuitive either, but I think I can say it pretty okay

[ember hatch]

I think it almost doesn't exist anywhere on the planet except for in this language in particular

Arabic, Icelandic, Welsh, Jerriais, and Spanish and European Portuguese to some extent have it. Not to say it's not rare, but it's certainly present in other languages

Ah, yea, Greek as well

[finite sapphire]

yeah cuz I care so much

about these languages

[calm dock]

Google the bunched R.

[native hemlock]

Ohkay

[native hemlock]

I struggle with the L too, it comes out as ULL or LUH

[blazing bobcat]

thats normal

[blazing bobcat]

I feel like a retracted alveolar approximant is easier to produce word-initially

[ember hatch]

Retroflex was easiest for me

[native hemlock]

and I more often than not say “-a” rather than the r sound in words. learnin, morning, your

In “words” i say “wuhhds”

[ember hatch]

Yeah, Brits do that. Compensatory lengthening of or insertion of schwa after vowels that historically had codas containing /r/

[twilit bison]

Hello

[twilit bison]

True

[ember hatch]

Very informative response you've pinged me with, noble_baegle_70005

[twilit bison]

R u British??

[ember hatch]

No.

[high flicker]

@deft tartan Hi everyone!

I’m Enitan, a beta reader and a book editor, who helps writers improve their manuscripts with honest, detailed feedback. I focus on things like story flow, pacing, character development, and emotional impact to help bring your story to life.

Feel free to DM me

[ember hatch]

I should prefer not to answer.

[agile otter]

Hello everyone!
How does this pronunciation channel go? I'm new and I can't find any information about it

[river lance]

hello

[high flicker]

Hi everyone!

I’m Enitan, a beta reader and a book editor, who helps writers improve their manuscripts with honest, detailed feedback. I focus on things like story flow, pacing, character development, and emotional impact to help bring your story to life.

Feel free to DM me

[heady tundra]

How do i pronounce "months"

[blazing bobcat]

mən̪t̪s mən̪θs məns
mUHn(th)s

[heady tundra]

Thanx i appreciate that

[blazing bobcat]

yw

[little basalt]

How do I pronounce "rowq", It's not a word in the dictionary

[ember hatch]

I imagine 'q' wouldd just be said as the letter's name here

'row Q'

seems like a company name

[finite sapphire]

we same minds

or just row+q like k in "soak"

this would be strange

[tulip remnant]

True true

[distant steeple]

roke

[hidden fjord]

Hi

[tardy wing]

Hlw

[leaden spear]

Hi

[sturdy briar]

hi

[distant steeple]

Stop saying hi here oh my days

[naive sundial]

Here we go! My relaxed voice.

[tulip remnant]

Is "neither" pronounced 'nee-thuh' or 'n-eye-thuh'? I'm English so I say 'nee-thuh' but I'm not sure why there are two different pronunciations

Same with "either" ee-thuh or eye-thuh

[blazing bobcat]

both pronunciations are fine

[ember hatch]

Middle English had a lot of vowel variance from dialect to dialect. It happens that 'either' survived with several of the reflexes of those vowels. The vowel from Old English, after regularly monophthongising and then raising to something near /ɛː/ (like modern Southern British English 'pair') by 1550 (though some conservative variaties still had /ai/ at that point and possibly even as late as the 1600s, even 1650. The exact modality and time of this monophthongisation and raising is up for scholarly debate) either regularly underwent some raising, reaching /eː/ (like German 'nehmen') or possibly underwent even more raising dialectally and reached /iː/ (like in 'seed') at some point. Early Modern English /eː/ underwent diphthongisation at some point in most accents (if I remember correctly, this was dated around 1800, possibly earlier), making it [eɪ] (like in conservative 'face'), sometimes later lowering to [ɛɪ]. This pronunciation of 'either' is now archaic, but it was common in Northern England in the 1900s. /iː/ diphthongised in some manner to a closing diphthong (the exact value being debated) by the 1550s, possibly as early as the 1400s. This ultimately became /aɪ/ (like in conservative 'cry') since closing diphthongs tend to lower the first element, and it's very commonly backed to [äɪ~ɐɪ~ɑɪ] in most modern accents. Sometimes, the Old English /æːj/, which was what 'either' started with and which became /ai/ in Middle English, became /ɛː/ (I'm not aware if this is part of any regular sound change. It's possible, since Old English /æː/ became Middle English /ɛː/ regularly, but this was when it wasn't followed by /j/ [a 'y' sound like in 'yes'].) and this was raised to Middle English /eː/ possibly in the 1640s to 1650s. This was later further raised to /iː/, resulting in the 'ee-thuhr' pronunciation. One became more common in America (ee, /iː/), the other became more common in Britain (eye, /aɪ/), and the third died after being common in northern England (ae-ther, /eɪ/). However, there is a lot of variation between using the former two within both regions and even within a single speaker

[wraith atlas]

hi

[tulip remnant]

Thank you very much for your explanation!

[ember hatch]

No problem!

[distant steeple]

im english and your pronunciation is treasonous

[tulip remnant]

You say n-eye-thuh??

[distant steeple]

i do

[tulip remnant]

Interesting

It seems awkward to pronounce

I don't use it that often though so I haven't really 'practiced' with it

[ember hatch]

:3

[naive sundial]

How was my accent?

[ember hatch]

I feel like the Scottish 'o' of 'no' would be a bit further back in the mouth with a bit more lip rounding, also, no offglide, just a pure long 'o'. believe the 'o' of 'problem' would be a bit elongated and should be the stressed vowel. It should also be further back and lower in the mouth. For both the 'o' of 'no' and of 'problem', think of how the Levantine Arabic speakers say 'koon' for 'kawn' (the one in 'problem' might be lower in the mouth than that, though). The second vowel of 'problem' would be shorter and unstressed; it might be more central, perhaps much more open. The /l/ ought to be much darker. That means making it pharyngealised/velarised, in lay terms, make it with the back of your throat involved. Basically, like the /l/ people might use in Arabic 'allah' when they're stressing it. I really recommend this video for understanding the Scottish /l/ sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOYJkIK0zuM

Examples of the phrase:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=226&v=H3rMtMJfewU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=360&v=CGUiaxDJ830
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=628&v=JeaiyZwVC0k (I particularly like this third fellow's accent personally)

[ember hatch]

Also, I believe I was a bit mistaken about how open that last vowel is. It is certainly more open than typical English, but it's not much more open. However, it is central, yeah

You could realise it as slightly above schwa

or as just schwa, as for many speakers

[naive sundial]

That’s helpful. TYSM!

Now U sound softer than B4.

[shrewd goblet]

alguien que me pueda ayudar con ingles y ayudo con spanish argentino

hello i'am spiking spanish argentina , need learn english please your help please is need

[distant steeple]

Well I say both depending on the rest of the sentence & how I feel but it’s mostly the latter

Nee-thuh do I
I’m doing neye-thuh of those

[tulip remnant]

Aaahhh

Yesss

Okay, yeah, I'm the same then

One of those things you don't think about until someone says it haha

[winged bridge]

It sounds to me that your pronunciation of ‘neither’ basically depends on its word class in the sentence, like nEEthuh for adverbs and nEYEthuh for pronouns. How would you pronounce this word when it precedes a noun, like ‘neither man could speak’, is it always nEYEthuh or interchangeable? What about the cases in ‘neither … nor … ‘? And I guess the pronunciation of ‘either’ should be parallel to that of ‘neither’ which also depends on its word class?

[native hemlock]

How can I work on my intonation?
It seems easier said than done, when I am shadowing its not veryhard to follow proper rythm, flow and intonation technique.
How do i do that while at the same time,I am putting my thoughts out.
I'll appreciate any other exercises to practice correct intonation.
TAQ!

[distant steeple]

It depends on how I feel too

Just the vibe of the sentence

[odd coral]

https://voca.ro/190GLA1KRBec

[odd coral]

IT WAS A BRIGHT COLD DAY IN APRIL, AND THE CLOCKS WERE
striking thirteen. Winston Smith, his chin muzzied into his
breast in an effort to escape the vile wind, slipped quickly
through the glass doors of Victory Mansions, though not
quickly enough to prevent a swirl of gritty dust from entering
along with him.
The hallway smelt of boiled cabbage and old rag mats. At
one end of it a colored poster, too large for indoor display, had
been tacked to the wall. It depicted simply an enormous face,
more than a meter wide: the face of a man of about forty-five,
with a heavy black mustache and ruggedly handsome features.
Winston made for the stairs. It was no use trying the lift. Even
at the best of times it was seldom working, and at present the
electric current was cut off during daylight hours. It was part
of the economy drive in preparation for Hate Week. The flat
was seven flights up, and Winston, who was thirty-nine, and
had a varicose ulcer above his right ankle, went slowly, resting
several times on the way. On each landing, opposite the lift
shaft, the poster with the enormous face gazed from the wall.
It was one of those pictures which are so contrived that the
eyes follow you about when you move. BIG BROTHER IS
WATCHING YoU, the caption beneath it ran.
Inside the flat a fruity voice was reading out a list of figures
which had something to do with the production of pig iron.
The voice came from an oblong metal plaque like a dulled
mirror which formed part of the surface of the right-hand
wall.

I stuttered on a few words. Rate my accent pronunciation and give me tips for improvement pls.

[willow juniper]

When it comes to intonation and flow, I suggest thinking about the most important words in the sentence, and putting just a tiny bit more emphasis on those words. Or you can think about it the opposite way, and put less emphasis on the unimportant words.

For example: "I'm going to the store in an hour."
The important information to communicate here is "Going", "store", and "hour". That way, the person listening understands what you are about to do. When I say this sentence out loud, I naturally put a bit more clarity and volume on the words "going", "store", and "hour". The other words in the sentence get mumbled a bit as a native speaker.

[native hemlock]

I’ll focus on that. Thank you.

[crystal remnant]

@willow juniper do you know how to properly pronounce 's' or 'ed' at the end of a word?

[ember hatch]

For -ed:
Say /t/ after voiceless consonants except /t/. That means consonants you don't vibrate your vocal folds to produce. A list would be 'p, k, f, th (like in "think"), s, sh, ch'. Examples:
nip -> nipped (said as 'nipt')
pluck -> plucked (said as 'plukt')
chafe -> chafed (said as 'chaeft')
froth -> frothed (said as 'frotht')
gloss -> glossed (said as 'glost')
slash -> slahed (said as 'slasht')
leech -> leeched (said as 'leecht')

Say /d/ after voiceless consonants except /d/. That means consonants you do vibrate your vocal folds to produce. A list would be 'm, n, ng, b, g, v, th (like in "weather"), z, zh (like in "leisure"), j, l, r' and any vowels. Examples:
ram -> rammed (said as 'ramd')
sin -> sinned (said as 'sind')
long -> longed (said as 'longd')
club -> clubbed (said as 'klubd')
shag -> shagged (said as 'shagd')
prove -> proved (said as 'proovd')
lathe -> lathed (said as 'laethd')
pose -> posed (said as 'powzd')
rouge -> rouged (said as 'roozhd')
lunge -> lunged (said as 'lunjd')
toll -> tolled (said as 'towld')
bore -> bored (said as 'bord) (American only)

After /t/ and /d/, you say the 'e':
want -> wanted (said as 'wantid')
bud -> budded (said as 'buddid')

'-s' follows similar rules but with some differences. The voiced-voiceless rule still applies, but the exceptions aren't /t/ and /d/, they're 's, z, sh, zh, ch, j'.

Voiceless: p, t k, f, th (like in 'think')
Voiced: m, n, ng, b, d, g, v, th (like in 'weather'), l, r
Exceptions (both voiced and voiceless): s, z, sh, zh, ch, j

After the voiceless ones, you say /s/:
nip -> nips (said as 'nips')
flit -> flits (said as 'flits')
pluck -> plucks (said as 'pluks')
chafe -> chafes (said as 'chaefs')
froth -> froths (said as 'froths')

After the voiced ones and all vowels, you say /z/:
ram -> rams (said as 'ramz')
sin -> sins (said as 'sinz')
long -> longs (said as 'longz')
club -> clubs (said as 'klubz')
bud -> buds (said as 'budz')
shag -> shags (said as 'shagz')
prove -> proves (said as 'proovz')
lathe -> lathes (said as 'laethz')
toll -> tolls (said as 'towlz')
bore -> bores (said as 'borz) (American only)

After the exceptions listed above, you say the 'e' in '-es':
gloss -> glosses (said as 'glosiz')
slash -> slahes (said as 'slashiz')
leech -> leeches (said as 'leechiz')
pose -> poses (said as 'powziz')
rouge -> rouges (said as 'roozhiz')
lunge -> lunges (said as 'lunjiz')

[late parrot]

How do I pronounce "aggregate"

[distant steeple]

https://youtu.be/ZMPktoaIUHg?si=dQ1cvXRnmUecsvvA

[unique relic]

hey guys hope you all are doing good
I want advice from someone who learned an American accent. Can anyone help?

[toxic thicket]

hi

im back. can someone help me with my accent.

[blazing pine]

Hi

[mossy wind]

Hello everyone

[craggy gulch]

Hello

[hushed shore]

Hii

[whole thicket]

@toxic thicket Hey. I'm a voice presence pronunciation coach.Feel free to DM me if you'd like further help. I'm a native speaker from the UK.

[whole thicket]

@toxic thicket njaturtule Those are the stressed words of course. Longer, stronger, clearer, change of pitch.

[whole thicket]

Good afternoon.
I'm a voice presence strategist and pronunciation coach from the UK .
I help non-native speakers improve their pronunciation and communication skills. I fix the mechanics of their voices. Feel free to message me if you are interested.

[quaint crane]

Would you like to be an English Teacher in our server?

[untold stone]

hi one poeple can help me for my accent and my english im frech is so dificult

[stray depot]

You can send a voice message here

And someone will respond

[untold stone]

ah i thinks i send a message here and i wait a teacher

for call

[whole thicket]

@untold stone Hey..Do you need help with dnuth6?

@untold stone I tried messaging Yiu but it failed.

[quiet brook]

@past spoke I still can't see the channel

The FE VC

it says no access. Travis was asking me a question and I was kicked

but who and why

Okay @lost totem

The isn't proper moderating. Someone is abusing their power

and thank you catnap for your time

[strong forge]

I have problem with this "æ" I took this for "/e/ or /ɑ/"

[ember hatch]

Could you rephrase your question?

[cobalt pollen]

Maybe they struggle to pronounce the /æ/ sound

[ember hatch]

I'll wait for them to clarify.

[cobalt pollen]

Fair enough

[winged island]

what words use that sound?

[ember hatch]

'cat', 'bat', 'bad', 'bash', etc.

short a

[cobalt pollen]

Cat, bat, banana

[ember hatch]

banana does not

[cobalt pollen]

The second a

The first a is a schwa

[ember hatch]

second a is /ɑː/

but an American would say it as /æ/ now that I think about it

not the best example regardless

[cobalt pollen]

Ig I say it the American way

[ripe willow]

is bash pronounced with an /æ/? i think i've been saying it wrong all this time

[blazing bobcat]

yes

thats a TRAP word

[ember hatch]

yea it's /bæʃ/

[ripe willow]

pls don't tell me trap is also /æ/-ified

[blazing bobcat]

wdym

[ember hatch]

what have you been saying thet as 😭

[cobalt pollen]

Cat and bad are some of the classic examples, I agree

[ripe willow]

holup let me get the ipa symbols

[ember hatch]

/æ/ is normlly represnted with the word 'trap'. The most common example

The namesake of the lexical set

[winged island]

oops said bat twice instead of bad lol

[cobalt pollen]

Maybe the long a 💀

[ripe willow]

is 'long a' /ɑ:/?

[ember hatch]

you reaally hear that ash-tensing in 'bananaa' :p

[blazing bobcat]

yes

[ember hatch]

or /eɪ/

not sure which Vampire meant

[ripe willow]

ok i don't think i pronounce it like that, i think i'm just straight up /a/-ing it

[blazing bobcat]

thats normal

[ember hatch]

/a/ is okay for Brits

[blazing bobcat]

if youre from the west coast of the US/canada

or in SSB

[ember hatch]

Brits go more towards [ä] though

[blazing bobcat]

true

[cobalt pollen]

I meant /α:/

Or is that not a long a?

[ember hatch]

I've heaard that called 'broad a'

while /eɪ/ was called 'long a'

[ripe willow]

i think i've heard long <vowel> used to mean <vowel name>

[ember hatch]

the names are kind of confusing ngl

I just use the ipa

[cobalt pollen]

True

[winged island]

ill tell you for sure, as just a native speaker who hasn't studied english as a second language
all of these things are basically meaningless to me /eɪ/ /bæʃ/ æ /ɑ:/ . I wouln't know what any of them sound like without examples

[blazing bobcat]

these are just weird ways to refer to some sounds in our speech

[cobalt pollen]

Same

[ember hatch]

this is less about language-learning and more about the formal study of linguistics, so it's understandable. It just so happens that some language learners pick up linguistics along the way

Most aren't expected to know these symbols

[cobalt pollen]

Like when one is not thinking about being specific

[ripe willow]

as a native spanish speaker, i can't really hear the differences easily, i need phonetic transcription bc i can at most differentiate /aeiou/

[blazing bobcat]

makes sense
germanic languages are known for their insane vowel phoneme systems

[ember hatch]

thas how a lot of people describe it to learners of English actually. 'The silent e makes the vowel long. That means you say it like its name in the alphabet' is an explanation I've heard at least thrice lol

It works well enough I suppose

[blazing bobcat]

magic E

[ember hatch]

I just learnt Gottscheerish has tetraphthongs like 10 mins ago 😭 i̯oai, i̯uai, i̯oːai, i̯uːai

[blazing bobcat]

what a weird thing

[ember hatch]

Germanic languages just have bs vowel systems

[blazing bobcat]

true

american english is not an exception too

[ripe willow]

i don't think i've ever heard that xd, tbh my english education wasn't that good, in my head a word like
<good> seem germanic so its probs -> /gud/
<education> seems french so its probs -> /e-dʒu-kej-ʃon/
<naïve> seems too french so i pronounce it doing a bad french accent
then i turn a 5 vowel system into a like 13 vowel system at random

[blazing bobcat]

education should be /edʒykéɕɔ̃/

[ripe willow]

😭

pls don't do that to me man, seeing that transcription hurts my soul

i think i get it

[blazing bobcat]

ok I guess it's more like /edykasjɔ̃́/ or something

[ripe willow]

but the fact that /edʒykéɕɔ̃/ and /edʒukejʃon/ are actually distinguishable seems cursed

[blazing bobcat]

lol

[ember hatch]

Yeah, older RP had like 4 vowels crammed way up in the top left quadrant of the vowel space. I'm not sure about American English, but some realisations of HAWK are interesting, like ɔə

[winged island]

Yeah we were taught that in school for native english too

[blazing bobcat]

ye, the latter may exist in NYC speech I believe (among older speakers)

the nucleus is prob slightly raised to [o] though

imagine contrasting ɒ ɔ o in a real language

[ripe willow]

i'm pretty sure u could be understood speaking english with like, maybe even just /a/ /i/ /u/, there's enough consonants

[blazing bobcat]

uhhh

[ripe willow]

well add schwa to the list for unstressed vowels and i think it could work

[blazing bobcat]

use /a/ for TRAP, FATHER, HAWK, LOT, STRUT, BATH, CHOICE, START, CLOTH, DRESS
use /i/ for KIT, FLEECE, happY, NURSE, PRICE, NEAR, SQUARE, commA, lettER, FACE
and /u/ for GOAT, MOUTH, CURE, GOOSE

works perfectly

[ripe willow]

lmao

[ember hatch]

ɛ̽d͡ʒʷ.ʊ̞̈ˈkˣɛjʃ.n̩

[ripe willow]

w.. why?

:'c

[blazing bobcat]

mid-centralized /ɛ/ 😵‍💫

thats a beautiful transcription tho

[ember hatch]

becuase evil

[ripe willow]

i agree it's beautiful but like in a weird mad evil scientist sort of way

[ember hatch]

danish?

no idea if iss truly liek that

[blazing bobcat]

RP

[ripe willow]

can u transcribe <trap> pls, but like using your cursed craft

[ember hatch]

for me trap is actually really variable lol

[ripe willow]

oh, too bad i guess :c

[blazing bobcat]

/trɪp/

[ember hatch]

Is say smth like this lol, choose any vowel in between t͡ʃɻ̥æ̝~a~äp̚

[ripe willow]

then would trip be /tri:p/ ?

[blazing bobcat]

phonetically [t🤫 ɹ̠̥ˤʷap]

[winged island]

is it variable? i feel like theres only one way to say it lol

[ripe willow]

how do u pronounce [🤫] ¿¿¿

[ember hatch]

pharyngealised r 💔

[blazing bobcat]

yeees

[ember hatch]

I think Americans do that more than Brits? No idea

Might be regional still even within both

[blazing bobcat]

maybe

/r/ is generally more dark in genam

[ember hatch]

🤫

[ripe willow]

oh ok thx understandable

[blazing bobcat]

it's pronounced like [🤫]

[ember hatch]

vowel qualities can be very different across accents, and soemtimes one speaker will say a vowel differently depending on surrounding words or just what accent they're putting on or going for. Native speakers are variable even within one accent, but non-natives can be more so. I am a non-native

[ripe willow]

dacti-labial trill?

[blazing bobcat]

nope
voiceless postalveolar fricative

[ripe willow]

OH

[ember hatch]

I think that would be a fricaative

I'm not sure what you could trill with your finger

[ripe willow]

(is dactil- the correct prefix for finger stuff?)

[ember hatch]

I'd go with dactilo-

but dacti is prolly okaaay lol

[blazing bobcat]

oh yeah the notorious voiceless dactilo-postalveolar fricative

[ripe willow]

i hope my neighbor didn't hear me make a weird kinda fake-farty sound with my finger and lips

[blazing bobcat]

lmao

[ember hatch]

The closest will ever get to a dactilo-anything trill is a linguolabial trill

[ember hatch]

universal phonologist experience

making weird sounds in your room and putting your fingers in your mouth

[blazing bobcat]

yup thats all they do

[ripe willow]

when u try to exemplify the pronunciation of a consonant, do u add a vowel after it? if so, which one?

i think i do /e/

[ember hatch]

schwa for me

[blazing bobcat]

[a] or [ə]

[ripe willow]

both of those somehow feel like they make more sense than /e/

[ember hatch]

unless I'm imitating those Wikipedia recordings , then iss Cɑ̈ː ɑ̈Cːɑ̈ː ɑ̈C

[ripe willow]

in spanish we have this weird tendency to call the dígrafo <ch> /tʃe/

[blazing bobcat]

[e] can affect the articulation of the consonant a bit too much (I guess)

so the consonant will sound more palatal(ized)

[ember hatch]

prolly yea

[ripe willow]

like as if it was an actual letter on the alphabet (it was but not anymore)

[ripe willow]

makes sense

[blazing bobcat]

although that can happen with any front vowels

so [a] isn't much better lol

I guess schwa would be the most natural and neutral

[blazing bobcat]

/tʁøːp/

[ripe willow]

/ʁ/???

i

[ember hatch]

ʁ for /r/ isn't unheard of

jus rare

[blazing bobcat]

ye

not really a thing anymore

[ripe willow]

i guess it is like, pretty reasonable if u come from a language where <r> is pronounced /ʁ/

[ember hatch]

like native English accents

[blazing bobcat]

I don't think english <r> is pronounced /ʁ/ in my accent lol
that was a jokeee

[ember hatch]

It's probably dead except for some old dude in rural Northern England who's taking care of his sheep

[ripe willow]

its just that, <trap> -> /trɪp/ didn't prepare me for <trip> -> /tʁøːp/

[ripe willow]

wait that actually might sound pretty cool

[ember hatch]

if you're going to do it you better learn to do a Northumbrian accent

[blazing bobcat]

ive heard some audio samples with that realization of /r/ and that was really out of this world

[ripe willow]

i'm definitely not doing that, seems cool but i have enough trying to not pronounce <trap> as /trap/

[ember hatch]

whereee, I've never heard it

please if you can find it link it

[blazing bobcat]

alr

[ember hatch]

saying it as /trap/ is fineee

[blazing bobcat]

I probably won't be able to find it tho

[ember hatch]

I'm guessing you're not paying attention to the /r/ with your traanscription, but even a tapped r is fine if you're older and scottish

[ripe willow]

for some reason alt gr + a gives me æ

but alt gr + r gives me

¶

i was hoping for a flap but oh well

[ember hatch]

I'm big-brained and jus have IPA keyboard open

[ripe willow]

oh yeah its not a trill, i think i try to pronounce it as a retroflex, it prolly sound kinda off tho

[blazing bobcat]

it's kind of sad typeit doesn't include unofficial ipa symbols like [ᵿ], [ᵻ], [ᴇ], [ⱻ], [ꭥ], [ᴀ]

would be really convenient if it did

[ripe willow]

i remember typeit having an app u could install

[ember hatch]

I think my r is subapical, but Idk if it can be defined as 'retroflex'. I always understood 'retroflex' as 'subapical', but then, you can go as far back as almost your velum with the underside of your tongue, so is that retroflex?

I can do a subapical dental plosive, is that retroflex 😭

[ripe willow]

turns out the typeit app its just straight up autohotkey

[blazing bobcat]

prob not

[ember hatch]

my problem with it is that it doesn't have superscript letters for fricative release, labiodentalisation, and labiopalatalisation

[blazing bobcat]

no fricative release is kind of sad, I agree

never had to use labiodentalization, -palatalization tho

[ember hatch]

btw, do you know id the ipa has a symbol for centralisation, but vertically? Like... middisation

[blazing bobcat]

hm

I'm pretty sure I don't

[ember hatch]

I once had to use it to transcribe this dude's /r/

[blazing bobcat]

ow

[ember hatch]

you know, complete labiodentalisation of /r/ to [ʋ], I randomly happened upon someone who partially labiodentalised it

[ripe willow]

is greek central more horizontal and germanic middle more vertical?

[ember hatch]

wot

sorry I don't understand 😅

[ripe willow]

if centralisation is horizontal and middisation is vertical

then is greek more | and germanic more - ?

(srry this really sounded better in my head)

[ember hatch]

I think I'm too stupid to get this joke .. is it a joke 😭

I'm sorry

[ripe willow]

dw it's really not even funny

[ember hatch]

I like nerdy jokes I jus can't get this one

[ripe willow]

besides i don't think its fair to call urself stupid given the contents of this conversation

holup maybe i can draw a diagram to explain my dumb unfunny joke

[ember hatch]

waitt, is this a joke abt 'central' being Greek and 'mid' being Germanic?

[ripe willow]

yep

oh yeah i should have explained it like that srry

:C

[ember hatch]

what do | and - have to do with it though

[ripe willow]

its a

vertical line

and a horizontal line

[ember hatch]

oh

ohhh

that makes sense

[ripe willow]

i probly should've used an em dash instead of -

[ember hatch]

iss a nice joke either way, I jus didn't immediately realise lol

[ripe willow]

but its harder to type

[ember hatch]

[ripe willow]

thx, i really tried with that one

one day maybe i'll be ready to start a comedy career

prolly more lucrative than the degree i'm studying for

[ember hatch]

Btw I don't think 'middisation' is a term I just formed itt without any real thought

[ripe willow]

middification sounds more natural to me tbh

[ember hatch]

[ember hatch]

amplimidmentification 😔

[ripe willow]

ok i get the ampli-

explain the -ment-

[ember hatch]

Amplimid = much mid
I verb it 'to much mid, to make much mid'
add nominalisation suffix (-ment) 'the making much mid'
add ificate
add tion

[ripe willow]

in spanish m best attempt would be enamplimedificacionamiento

[ember hatch]

it doesn't make sense I'm just trying to make it long lol

[ripe willow]

ohhhh

ok i just got the ment part

[ripe willow]

en- <root> -amiento = to making of root, like -ment
ampli- = more of
medi = middle
-ficación = -ification
its actually the same i think

i just realized that -ment is en- -amiento ins apnish

spanish*

i never made that connection

what is it called when the affix surrounds the root?

[ember hatch]

enamplimidificate sounds more like a real word now lol

[ember hatch]

circumfix

[ripe willow]

nice

[ember hatch]

if they have to both be added to make a the word

English doesn't have any good modern example but you once would do
a- -ing

[ripe willow]

tbf the only example of a circumfix in spanish i can think of rn is en- -amiento

it itself comes from en- noun -ar

which turns nouns into verbs

[ember hatch]

I think I've heard more abt circumfixes in romance languages yea, can't remember

[ripe willow]

a- -ing exmaples pls?

[ember hatch]

aplaying, achanging

it was how you did the present participle for a while

comes from 'on/in playing'

'he is on playing' > 'he is aplaying' > 'he is playing'

[ripe willow]

wow, that actually looks cool

too bad its not used anymore :c

[wide nexus]

hello

[whole thicket]

/AH/Is not necessarily a short sound if it has a voiced consonant following it

[ember hatch]

It's still shorter than the vowel of BATH, typically. Pre-fortis clipping can cause some length differences, but it's not so major that I would call one a long vowel and the other a short one. If anything, I'd say one is short and the other is shorter in this case

Regardless, /æ/ isn't typically analysed as a long vowel in English

Despite those phonetic differences

[blazing bobcat]

For General American:
the vowel in so should consist of 2 sounds, not one. so your tongue should move from /ɔ/ to /w/. /ɔw/ (just add a W after your 'o'). (your pronunciation sounds closer to [s̪o̞ːˑ], the standard in GenAm is [sʌ̹w ~ sɔ̜̈w]).
the word pronunciation * sounds a bit muffled. you didn't pronounce 2 out of 3 n's in that word (in english, /n/ typically has a more lengthened articulation than in most other languages)
the L in well * sounds a bit too vocalized (i.e. sounds more like a vowel). make it clearer
not and job should rhyme and both have the vowel of father.
the <y> in every**one should sound like the vowel of FLEECE rather than KIT

(the k in like sounds a little bit too palatalized (soft) (but this is fine))

(I'm not sure what you were saying in the last part of the vm)

[rapid olive]

Thank you for help

[whole thicket]

@ember hatch Words like Bath,Task,Last, etc are pronounced differently in the UK depending on where you're from.
I'm from the south, but I actually pronounce some words with the typical dentist south, using the trap sound.

[solemn ingot]

@whole thicket heyy

[ember hatch]

'Everyone' shouldn't have FLEECE, should it? I know happy-tensing makes the qualities alike, but do Americans also make it a long vowel? I feel like Brits do that utterance-finally, but word-internally (like in 'everyone') it would remain short, no? The main problem with their 'everyone' was the /v/

[blazing bobcat]

just realized the /v/ is weird, that's true

everyone usually has FLEECE in slow ~ not too rapid speech
I did find some examples on youglish where the [i] gets reduced to something more [ɪ]-like (and it's quite common)
americans, however, don't make it a long vowel. it's phonetically short because it's not stressed and because it's in the middle of the word. just because the vowel quality changes from [ɪ] to [i] doesn't make the vowel itself longer. it's still kept short (this is why I'm not a big fan of phonemic vowel length in GenAm and some other english accents, it just makes things more confusing)
word-finally most sonorants/vowels are lengthened in emphatic speech, that's true in GenAm too

I guess a better transcription (if you want to represent the variation) would be something between [ɪ] and [i], maybe [ɪ̝]

[ember hatch]

I mean, the quality is in fact closer to that wherewith many may realise FLEECE, but saying it is FLEECE would mean that it's said exactly as one says their FLEECE vowel, which is inaccurate. Whilst you did say 'should sound like FLEECE', that, to me, would still implicate the length of the FLEECE vowel. I think it's more accurate to say that the happY set is tenser, approaching FLEECE in quality but not in length

[ember hatch]

We still occasionally use it in songs and sing-songy phrases. I just found an instance thereof: https://youtu.be/ldaescGA1dY?t=301

[full sinew]

how to pronounce 'rt' in such words as party, thirty, forty with american accent

I can easily pronounce words as bitter, water with flat t, but struggling a lot with RT

At the same time I cannot find any videos on how to pronounce it exept for that "rachel's english" video where she teaches how to pronounce 'party', but it didn't help me because the instructions she gave didn't seem clear to mе

[hoary spear]

I used to struggle with the exact same thing. What helped me make those sounds together was to think of the tip of my tongue as a slingshot of sorts and then release it to the front of your mouth

Or even practice putting your tongue to the either side of your mouth. Say the /r/ and then the flapped t, and quickly move your tongue forward to say the vowel

[blazing bobcat]

fair. you have a point
I guess I said it sounds like FLEECE just for simplification purposes (because most language learners don't know what intermediate qualities are (and they don't have to) and saying that the <y> in everyone is like [i] but actually somewhere between [ɪ] would make things really confusing for the learner)
at least it's approaching GenAm FLEECE in quality

[ripe willow]

ohh nice, i actually watched that video before, but i think i never realized the a- -ing was actually grammatical, i thought it was just adding an a sound to fill syllables in lyrics

[ember hatch]

fellow Code Bullet fan

but ye thas the 'a-' thing

[ripe willow]

no joke he is in part responsible for me learning to code

[ember hatch]

I think there is also an old song that goes like 'The times they are a-changin'

[ripe willow]

i think this is the first instance i've heard in the wild that comes to mind https://youtu.be/TLnUJzueBOQ?t=203

[ember hatch]

oh nicee :o

[ripe willow]

the tetris video genuinely got me tweakin bc he didn't code the rotations properly (this isn't really an issue, i just love tetris)

and so i made it my personal project to make an actually correct (according to tetris guidelines) minimal version of tetris

[ember hatch]

nerd shit, a respectable endeavour :3

I suck at tetris lol

how did your project go though

[ripe willow]

truly nerd shit, most people don't even know rotation in tetris is that complicated https://harddrop.com/wiki/SRS

[ripe willow]

i'm satisfied with what i've accomplished https://github.com/All23tor/raytris

i could add more things, but i managed to code the SRS properly, and that scratched the itch in my brain

[ember hatch]

I've read through a bit of this and gosh that is complicated 😅

I did not expect tetris rotations to be that complicated lol

[ripe willow]

yeah, rotation was originally just a rotation, but it became more complicated with the express purpose of allowing cool shit to happen in game

like pieces seemingly teleporting

oh btw @ember hatch thanks for indulging me with my totally off topic talk, i suppose this shouldn't even be in this channel

[ember hatch]

lmao yeaah prolly shouldn't have been in this channel, but I enjoyed our chat

[halcyon sparrow]

heyy just asking
does anyone know some apps that helps with pronunciation? ( i'm looking foward to speak in a faster pace, bc i already know how to speak in english but more in a NON stress situation... )

i know about youglish and it really helps, but i'm trying to find something that's goona help me with the "faster pace" part

[hoary spear]

Discord

[halcyon isle]

I do have a hard time pronunciating capable

[whole thicket]

@quintessential0670 @ripe willow ntessentialguitar74 @ripe willow huh

Kay puh bl

[blazing bobcat]

...?

[ripe willow]

¿

[halcyon sparrow]

yep, that one i already use LOL but good to know i'm i'm the right path

thanks!

[hoary spear]

Loora may also work, but again I find discord more effective

[halcyon sparrow]

never heard of that

i'm gonna look it up

[ripe willow]

how common is in american english to pronounce the glottal stop in words like "mountain"?

[empty ledge]

He casted a spell on you.

[ripe willow]

maybe that's why my stomach is aching

[blazing bobcat]

oh well

[blazing bobcat]

very common

I'd say it's the standard

[ripe willow]

really? i had never noticed it before looking up the phonetic transcription of "button"

i always thought the glottal stop was more of a british thing

[blazing bobcat]

it is more of a british thing when /t/ becomes [ʔ] intervocalically, as in better

[ripe willow]

ohhh, i see

[blazing bobcat]

in words like button, mountain, certain etc. glottal stop + syllabic /n/ is normal

[ripe willow]

and then when is the glottal stop used in american english exactly? like what rule makes the t in mountain make [ʔ] sound

oh

[blazing bobcat]

or something similar like [-t̚n̩]

[ripe willow]

i understand, thanks :D

[blazing bobcat]

there are no particular rules since [ʔ] is not a phoneme in american english, but it usually appears when /t/ is right before any consonant (word-finally)

as in nigh[ʔ] time

other plosives don't trigger the glottal stop that often

[ripe willow]

nigh[ʔ] [t]ime? damn, i actually find that quite difficult to say out loud

[blazing bobcat]

I find nigh[t] [t]ime quite difficult to say out loud lol

[ripe willow]

in contrast, i find [ʔn] of mountain quite satisfying

[blazing bobcat]

yup. releasing the /t/ of mountain and aspirating it seems like too much effort tbh

[ripe willow]

maybe that is what the "kay puh bl" curse does

[blazing bobcat]

oh it sure does that!

he couldn't even type my username correctly lol

[ripe willow]

did he send u a friend request too?

[blazing bobcat]

no

[ripe willow]

oh, he didn't even message me

he just friend requested me out of nowhere and then cursed me to not be able to pronounce night time properly

[blazing bobcat]

lmao

what a voice presence pronunciation coach

[ripe willow]

btw what is the "crab" dm thing about, i'm intrigued

[blazing bobcat]

you can always try it

[ripe willow]

(wait is "kay puh bl" supposed to be <capable>¿¿¡¡, i just realized that)

[blazing bobcat]

that respelling is so cursed