📚｜english-questions

[boreal ingot]

Idk I just like words and expressions :p

[muted knot]

Anyone know how do I decide whether IT is anticipatory, empty or referential

[sacred anchor]

I really donot know what is the difference between the past simple and persent perfect

[flat rune]

My friend goes to his mother's house everyday. My friend has gone to his mother's house.

[flat rune]

Here's the difference

[sacred anchor]

Sorry i edited it

[flat rune]

If you use the past simple, you emphasis the fact that it happrned in the past

Whilst the present perfect is used when it's relevant to the present

Yesterday, i did my homework. I have done my homework so that my teacher doesn't give a punishment to me.

[boreal ingot]

I believe anticipatory it is when 'it' is acting cataphorically. That is to say, its antecedent comes after it (what is called a postcedent). This means the anticipatory it has a phrase or clause to which it refers and that that phrase or clause just so happens to come later in the sentence, after the 'it'. This is opposite to the empty it (more commonly called dummy it), which does not reference anything, but rather is only there for the syntactic validity of the sentence, as English requires that there be a subject for a sentence to be correct. If you've heard of it-extraposition, it's when a subject is put at the end of the sentence and 'it' replaces it; that's what anticipatory it does: it replaces something that has been pushed to later in the sentence. While dummy/empty it is only there for syntactic purposes and has no antecedent.

It rains. - Dummy/Empty it
It is raining. - Dummy/Empty it
It is very late. - Dummy/Empty it

In these sentences, 'It' does not refer to anything. It is only there to make the sentence correct, as you can't say 'rains' or 'is raining' in English, likewise with 'is very late'.

It ill-behoves you to act thus. - Anticipatory/Preparatory it
It is certain that we win. - Anticipatory/Preparatory it
It may serve you well to know of what awaits ahead. - Anticipatory/Preparatory it
It was here where I saw the man who killed my husband. - Anticipatory/Preparatory it

All these its refer to something later in the sentence. As you can see, they all can be rephrased with the extraposed phrase to which 'it' refers at the start:

To act thus ill-behoves you .
That we win is certain .
To know of what awaits ahead may serve you well.
Where I saw the man who killed my husband was here.

As for 'referential it', I have not heard of it before, so I can't really answer your question, my apologies. I'd like to note that from the name, I would assume that referential it is the umbrella term for 'it' acting cataphorically and 'it' acting anaphorically as opposed to dummy it, but I can't confirm that.

[muted knot]

Omg thank you for this.This helped alot

And I asked my friend about the referential one and apparently its pronoun

[boreal ingot]

Well, 'it' in all the sentences I listed is a pronoun

Both anticipatory it and dummy it are pronouns

[flat rune]

What is the difference between enhance and improve

[vast walrus]

improve is make better, but enhance is just increase in general

[flat rune]

what about possess and own?

[vast walrus]

same thing

[flat rune]

Interchangeable?

One is more formal than the another one

[vast walrus]

yeah possess is more formal

"i own many video games" saying possess would sound kinda formal

but if you wanted to talk about something non-physical, like lets say job skills

you would say "i possess good leadership skills" rather than own

own just doesnt sound right there

[flat rune]

Tysm

[flat rune]

Tysm

[vast walrus]

True

a wizard possesses magical powers but he doesn't own them

but he does own and possess wands and books

🤔

[vast walrus]

@verbal heron I see you

[verbal heron]

Ah

[boreal ingot]

You are seen

[verbal heron]

By whom?

[boreal ingot]

me

I observe

[verbal heron]

But how is that possible? I deleted my message

[vast walrus]

it popped up on my notification but i didnt see what u wrote

[verbal heron]

Oh

[boreal ingot]

Im kidding lol. I have no idea what you sent I'm just saying I see you

[verbal heron]

Lol okay

[static horizon]

Ok,do sb know how 2 improve speaking & listening？

[deft halo]

good night

I want to practice my english

[lusty marten]

Alguem sabe oq significa "that"

[hasty trout]

What are you not sure how you feel about? Yk, all this information is available in the internet and by just searching "empty and anticipatory it" you can get all the same information that was given above

[hasty trout]

Wdym? Like examples when it works only as dummy and not as anticipatory?

It rains

In this case word "it" doesn't refer to anything in particular but just action of rain going on

It's not me who created it

It probably matters for translation though

[hasty trout]

E.g. if you were to translate this sentence into russian, you wouldn't keep first "it" cuz it's dummy "it", but second one would stay

No idea

You could search smth like "why do we need different IT" and see results

It's just a distinction between different usages of one word

What? I'm answering the question, empty/anticipatory "it" are just different uses of "it" so there's a distinction between them.

What do you mean by "useful difference"?

Excuse me, since when making it personal is fine?

[acoustic geyser]

Are definitely, certainly and surely interchangeable?

[flat rune]

I think so

You are definitely weird, you are certainly weird, you are surely weird.

I'd say the first one is an affirmation whereas the last ones are hypothesises

So imo only the last ones zre interchangeable

[neat bone]

Looking for a reading partner

[signal shell]

I believe the referential it is the one we are most accustomed to thinking about when we hear the word "it" out of context. It refers back to a noun that was stated previously.

"I was riding my bicycle until it got a flat tire."

"it" is referring to the bicycle stated previously

The only real distinction I can really see is that, in one case, you never state what the "it" is referring to, and in the other case, you state what it's referring to afterwards. You could think of referential and anticipatory and being reverse of one another. This is just my take.

When using the dummy or empty "it" the listener never expects the speaker to clarify what "it" is referring to. It's just simply understood. When using the anticipatory "it", the listener knows to pay attention to clarification later in the sentence

While we're at it, I'll suggest a new form of "it", the suspenseful "it". Where the speaker intentionally leaves the reference unclarified in order to reveal later for dramatic effect.

"Can you believe it?"
"Believe what?"
"I got a job!"

[boreal ingot]

I mean, in a way, anticipatory it is referential. It references something later in the sentence.
That's why I thought it might be an umbrella term for the cataphoric (refers forwards) and anaphoric (refers backwards) uses of 'it', cuz they both refer to something. If it is as you said, then this is very stupid naming on their part lmao

[boreal ingot]

I think that's cataphoric. Anticipatory

[signal shell]

Yeah I agree. I'm being a bit playful at this point though

But I will say that, with anticipatory "it", it's often more fluid and natural than the alternative of naming the reference first.

"It's so nice of you to join us"
"Joining us is so nice of you"

I prefer the first sentence. It sounds more natural

The anticipatory "it" is really an observation about how natural sentence constructions are formed

[boreal ingot]

Btw cataphroa is done with other stuff, not just 'it'

The man said this: 'Sue their ass'.
'this' refers to 'sue thier ass'

He showed them all. He sued them all. HE won millions. He's the one and only, Michel, the lawyer.
The first three hes refer to Michel, idk abt the last one.

As she approached, the lawyer glared at me over her nose and glasses
She refers to the lawyer

This was my exact line of thought: 'If I sue them, I'll become rich'.
'this' refers to 'If I sue them ... rich'

[boreal ingot]

Yea, I think English doesn't like long subjects

That she ran around as a headless chicken might and spoke so insolently to the leader about matters impertinent to what that meeting was about would be why she was fired.

English would much rather

She was fired because ...

[signal shell]

Yes that sounds much more natural to me

So it might be a bit naive to say that anticipatory "it" is simply a reference to what will be stated later, but rather it is there to restructure the sentence so that a more complicated subject may be stated at the end of the sentence, thus rendering the statement more natural to speak and understand.

This will require the listener to "anticipate" a clarification of what "it" refers to later in the sentence

[boreal ingot]

Well, in stuff like 'It is I who did that' it's more for emphasis of 'I' than for pushing a heavy subject later, but yeah, I agree. Functionally it just refers forwards, but with the purpose of lessening the weight of the subject

Google around, the distinction does exist. No idea why, but it does

Lol, what a narrow approach to knowledge

[opaque cipher]

hi guys when it use a get?

i'm begginer with english and i have a dificult same

[boreal ingot]

It can't have come from nought, so I'd assume it's mentioned in some papers, but regardless of whether it is or not, you're not obligated to care about it. It's a distinction that exists, and that's all that it is

I'm not qualified to answer that I fear. I didn't create it

[boreal ingot]

Get has a lot of meanings, it would be hard to explain them all. The main ones are

He got shot/killed/eaten
And
I get a lot of gifts

[boreal ingot]

I'd suggest translating it since it's such a fundamental word

[opaque cipher]

i know for this i'm writhe it in this chat for i have a precise answer

And I think the answer is the same I thought.

[boreal ingot]

This paper seems to mention it
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0889490601000163

Clearly, clause-initial it can perform a wide variety of grammatical functions. Here we exclude from consideration clauses in which initial it functions as pronoun, in cleft sentences (e.g. It was on examination of the corpus that differences were observed), and as dummy or prop it (e.g. It’s raining).

It makes a distraction between it in cleft sentences and anticipatory it though, which is a distinction I've never been able to wrap my head around. But yea, the point is that it's present in this paper

I think Sergio's point about translation is good enough to make the distinction, but yeah, not all distinctions need be made

[cloud badge]

Yes they are, but surely is often also used in more of a questioning tone than the other two.

[glad rivet]

Who can retype some image into PDF file for our company a person who is an expert in retyping/translator

[boreal ingot]

It's also sarcastic more often thann not

@acoustic geyser

[cloud badge]

Hm, 'sure' sure is, but surely, im not so sure about, on the sarcasm thing. However, I could see that being more true in British English. Im thinking of the questioning statement like 'surely, you can't be serious' which is begging the person to answer back about theirs seriousness. "I am serious. and don't call me 'shirley'"

[boreal ingot]

idk I've always heard 'surely that's the case' and the like being used sarcastically more than genuinely

Just how I've seen 'surely' used

If you've seen it used otherwise that's fair

[cloud badge]

Oh hmm, yeah that's something i can't say I've heard before, but, i could imagine people doing that in England and the like.

[boreal ingot]

Hm, I guess it's not mainly sarcastic. I've always strongly associated 'surely' with sarcasam but I might have been mistaken, yeah

[cloud badge]

I think in the us, people just use sure for that more often. I could swear I've seen some British movies where it's used sarcastically, but, only when the sarcasm is in the whole sentence. Like, i just don't think 'surely' by itself is inherrantly sarcastic. Maybe even a bit less so than 'sure'. I often wonder if a sure is sarcastic or not but i don't wonder with surely.

Hmm, if i heard that, id take it as reassurance that i am thinking straight.

[boreal ingot]

I guess it could be a British vs. American thing, but we have no Brits to confirn lol.Brits are so rare around here

yea I agree with these, but idk about meaning 3

I would never take it as 3 :p

[signal shell]

It goes by another name there https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preparatory_subject

That's quite true. Where do we stop?

[cloud badge]

Also, anyone can edit Wikipedia pages, change things in them, make up articles, it's not something you should rely on for accurate info. One minute, that could be titled 'preparatory subject, and the next, someone could have edited the term to anticipatory, and the moment after, someone could change it back. So yeah, the sources at the bottom of the articles are the only real reliable things on there. Don't base your trust of something upon if there's a wiki article.

There are 4 sources on there actually, this is only a picture of the external link.

Look at the notes, there are more there

[signal shell]

I think the best answer to this question about "it" is that we are exploring how sentences are rephrased to accommodate the need to simplify the subject and put the reference at the end of the sentence. Dummy "it" isn't looking to restructure the sentence. Anticipatory "it" does do this.

Maybe this is just a cool subcategory with no real meaning

I don't really know

Maybe it would be better to categorize this method of structure rather than the category of "it"

In other words, the categorization of various forms of "it" is just a proxy for describing various concepts of sentence structure

[cloud badge]

Hmm, would the phrase 'it is what it is' be using both anticipatory/referential and dummy/placeholder it? Or just the latter..

[signal shell]

Well, this is a very idiomatic phrase

[cloud badge]

Yeah i just think it's kinda funny, it seems to have both

[signal shell]

I don't really know how such classifications apply in a case like that

[cloud badge]

Yeah, i mean i never even heard of these classifications till today, they're not really of use to native speakers, id assume.

[muted knot]

I just asked this because we had this on my syntax test and the professor mentioned we should pick out of those three

[signal shell]

Yeah and it turned into a philosophical discussion about whether such distinctions should exist

But I hope we at least answered your question about what your professor is talking about when using these terms

[sly pier]

I agree with this. I don’t think there is a BrE versus AmE difference here.

[muted knot]

The sentence with referential was: I don't really like his performance. It is rather odd. - this one was referential

[signal shell]

You can ignore anything else about how useful it is or why this even exists

[signal shell]

Right it refers to a previous noun, his performance

[muted knot]

Oh yeah definitely the professor kinda explains things in a unnecessarily complicated way

[signal shell]

Since "his performance" was stated earlier than "it", it's referential

[cloud badge]

What is the class subject, by the way? Just curious if it's like, grammar specific, or English in general, or what. c:

[muted knot]

Its just syntax

The class is called syntax

[boreal ingot]

can't believe they're calling it referential like anticipatory it doesn't also refer to stuff

[cloud badge]

Oh ok, yeah that can get very complicated and convoluted. Interesting though, good luck with it c:

[cloud badge]

Anticipatory refers to stuff ahead of time, that's the only distinction really.

[signal shell]

Honestly, I am starting to question if referential can actually be said for cases other than being previously stated. Such as my playful example for suspenseful "it".

[muted knot]

Thank youu ❤️

[boreal ingot]

yea I get the distinction, I just think the naming is dumb, cuz both of them are 'referential' (they both refer)

[signal shell]

I'm really thinking that anticipatory is strictly for cases where you remove the subject from the start of the sentence, replace with "it", and place the subject at the end.

[muted knot]

I literally hate that class I was on my second attempt exam and I just cant anymore

[signal shell]

And in such cases, you can't have just any simple noun as your subject. It typically involves a verb in the phrase.

[boreal ingot]

I think of it every night. The way they were so brutally murdered was awful.
^ this 'it' is the object of a preposition, but it refers forward to 'the way they were so brutally murdered', so I don't think that's the case

[cloud badge]

Well, yes, but for the anticipatory, you know to look for what the it is referring to. For the other, you don't need to look for anything. So it could be important for people who are learning how to use 'it' before the thing is named.

[signal shell]

Right, I think this may actually be referential

Right

We are struggling to find sources though, without just getting repeats of what the last source said

[cloud badge]

Imagine living before the internet was a thing

[signal shell]

Yeah you would just go to the library

[cloud badge]

Yeah and the library closes at 4 in my town

[boreal ingot]

idk, I just prefer the terms cataphoric for 'it' that refers forwards and anaphoric for when it refers backwards. The 'it' in my sentence is acting cataphorically, and to me it seems like 'anticipatory it' is just a way to say '"it" acting cataphrocailly'
maybe it's more spcefic and means that it's acting cataphrically as a replacment to the extraposed subject, idk

[signal shell]

Very slow discussions if you said "look it up" every time you wanted to talk about something that was previously researched

[boreal ingot]

true, yea

[cloud badge]

My point is, this isn't an academic discussion, we can talk about stuff without throwing the burden of proof on eachother

[boreal ingot]

yea, like, idk why it always have to be 'source every word you've said'. We aren't collectevly writing a research paper

[signal shell]

Yeah I remember the encyclopedia set my dad had (and still has) from the 1980s

I used to flip through those books as a child

[cloud badge]

Only rich people had those. My dad talks about how his friends would show up to his house banging on the door at night, asking if they can check something in his encyclopedia set to settle an argument that had been going for hours. And a lot of times, the thing isn't even in there.

[boreal ingot]

thas why you're big brain 🧠

[signal shell]

But the wealth of information on the internet now makes that encyclopedia set look so tiny

[muted knot]

I have the excercise but i cant post the photo here

[signal shell]

Not to mention, the world map in there is so hilariously out-of-date now

[cloud badge]

I just think the burden of proof should be on the one asking for it.

[muted knot]

And also do you guys know anything about determining sentence patterns?

[cloud badge]

Hmm, what kind of patterns

[muted knot]

Basicaly what we had in the class was a sentence and we had to determine what is main clause and what is subclause and then say pattern of the main one for example SVO(subject-verb-object)

And i just keep getting it wrong

[signal shell]

I think I might be interested in seeing the results of that

Very intriguing stuff

[muted knot]

Do u have any good sources on it like where its explained?

I had sentence- In spite of the loud noise I could hear what he was saying. Pattern was ASVO. The one i had problem with was- I can’t say that it was the best performance I’ve ever seen

I cant even determine main clause in that

A is Adjunct

[cloud badge]

I is the subject, hear is the verb, and what is the object. Words were heard by me. The object had the act of hearing done on it by the subject.

[muted knot]

I know it in an easy sentence like this its the more complex i have problems with like the one i shared

[cloud badge]

Yeah, and im not 100% sure i didn't mix them up. But maybe if you can break it down into its simplest form, it will be easier to figure out. Focusing on what is acting on what, and how (the verb)

[muted knot]

Oh okay I get this one

The thing is we dont mark it like that

How can you send image? I would send it how we have to do it

Oh okay

[flat rune]

Difference between in spite of/despite?

[cloud badge]

The preposition 'de' means 'of' so they're all but exactly the same.

[boreal ingot]

[I] [cannot say] [that it was the best performance I’ve ever seen]
The that-clause is acting as the object

'that' can turn full clauses into subject/objects

[muted knot]

So pattern would be SVO

?

[boreal ingot]

Yeah, SVO

English is an SVO language

for the most part

The O is a full clause

[muted knot]

Oh okay thank you omg im sorry im so annoying but i just struggle with it

[flat rune]

Ty @median fractal and @cloud badge

[muted knot]

I have also sentence: Mr. Norton, our history teacher, usually comes to the classroom 5 minutes before the lesson starts - that pattern would be SAVAA?

[verbal heron]

SAVAA?

[muted knot]

Thats what I have in answer key

[verbal heron]

What does 'A' stand for?

[muted knot]

Adjunct

Oh okay

I hate this sm

[boreal ingot]

I'm guessing 'AVP' means 'something Verb Phrase'? What does it stand for exactly?

[muted knot]

You mean the way I mark it?

Yeah I know

[boreal ingot]

I see, thanks

[muted knot]

I dont get it tbh why we do it like this. Thats why I asked here because there is not one youtube video on it how she does it

Yeah hopefully i passed exam pray for me

[boreal ingot]

Next you just start analysing the morphemes of the words

[muted knot]

Cheesus

[boreal ingot]

the chart is missing

Damn I suck at understanding charts. Brain hurts reading that sentence

All I'm getting is that PIE langs have more syllables per sec or smth

Oh, that's interesting

I wonder why that is

that makes sense, yeah

[signal shell]

Looks like it lol

Thanks for this. I'll be looking through it soon enough

[supple agate]

Hi, what's the meaning of "it goes something like"?

[vast walrus]

Very good answer.

[boreal ingot]

Is it safe to assume that by 'the war' World War Two is meant if there is no mention of a war before? I have just seen someone say 'like they haven't eaten since the war', and while I do understand that they just mean 'like they haven't eaten in a very long time/in ages', I'd still like to know what 'the war' would be referencing. Nothing in the context has to do with wars at all. I'm guessing this is like when people say 'the incident', where there is a tacit understanding of what incident is meant, even when it's not been mentioned before, but I haven't ever seen it with 'the war', so I'm unsure. Further, I don't know whether it would refer to World War One or Two.

[chilly scaffold]

what does 'pray' here mean?

[agile crow]

It's the real old-fashioned meaning of pray. It's similar to please, or implore, or request. Pray do not whip = Please do not whip

[boreal ingot]

Iss most often seen in 'pray tell' or 'pray do tell' these days. I feel any other use wouldl be entierly archaic

Thanks

yea

but it's the one phrase where you might still see it

So I thought I'd mention it

the third one I have no idea, but L rizz would be being bad at charming people and flirting, while W rizz would be being good at it

One who rizzes, aka, someone who is charismatic and charming, who's smooth, stuff like that. Though the word isn't really used seriously afaik

I think with these 'brainrot terms', they're often used by people to make fun of, well, brainrot, rather than for thier actual meaning, but idk if 'rizz' falls into that catagory

[signal shell]

Learning alpha brainrot, gotta love it

[boreal ingot]

Ngl, idk if 'rizz' is gen alpha. It seems everyone uses it online

But hey, learning is learning lol

[signal shell]

Putting a "skibidi" in front makes it even more a gen alpha thing

[boreal ingot]

Idk, to me 'skibidi rizz' sounds like a thing people say to make fun of gen alpha, but idk if Ive ever heard it unironically

[signal shell]

But yeah, people online use "rizz" often enough

[signal shell]

Perhaps you are right

But I've watched a few tiktoks from teachers who complain about their gen alpha students just saying these things randomly in class just to be funny

But how can I know these aren't just fake testimonies?

Just to make fun of them

Perhaps I'll never know for sure

If it is true, it certainly only comes from the students who have a strong presence online

[hasty trout]

Yeah it's like at least gen z too

[signal shell]

Or at least consume a lot of online social media content

[boreal ingot]

The closest it gets is when a random troll who's like 16 or 15 (so, not gen alpha) joins VC and uses gen alpha terms to be annoying, but even then, they're using it wiht the understanding that 'these terms are considered brainrot and I'm using them for that reason', not entierly seriously. That's why I say that brainrot is just mostly terms that are used to make fun of brainrot, almost like brainrot is stripped of its actual meaning and made entierly self-referential. It's taken to a level of abstraction where rather than using the terms to convey the meaning they originally had, they're used to make fun of the terms' existance

[signal shell]

Yeah, I could get behind this explanation

[boreal ingot]

Oh those poor teachers

if they're serious

damn

[hasty trout]

Also in class they can be still over 13, so not only gen alpha

[signal shell]

Yeah, but these particular teachers I'm talking about work with the younger students

[hasty trout]

Ah, didn't know that

[signal shell]

Yeah, perhaps I could have clarified that

[hasty trout]

But I'd assume it to be a thing across multiple ages tbh

[signal shell]

Yeah, I had this experience when encountering the shenanigans of gen z, as a teacher in high school

They come in talking about if "water is wet"

[hasty trout]

Ngl this separation of generations makes so little sense to me

[signal shell]

And saying they are "triggered"

[chilly scaffold]

Oh, I like that, thank you!

[boreal ingot]

Actually, I've met one person who used 'gyat' unironically. She was 13
I think it's hard to gauge exactly how common these terms are amongst younger demographics as social media doesn't particularly abound with those 12 and under actively chatting

[signal shell]

Yeah, it is a bit arbitrary

[boreal ingot]

Okay but as a late genZ Ive heard that being argued about so many times lmao

I love how we say 'okay but' when we aren't introducing a counter lol, we just say 'okay but'

[signal shell]

Lol

[verbal heron]

Even though the word 'rizzler' has a disapproving connotation, adolescents nowadays thinks of it as a ‘praise’

[signal shell]

As a teacher, we hear these interactions and get so confused

[verbal heron]

lmao

[boreal ingot]

Do you mean how the word 'triggered' is now thrown around much more flippantly than it ought to be?

[hasty trout]

"a bit" isn't the best word for it imo. Like for some reason people born in 2010 and 2014 are considering to be different generations but 2014 and 2024 are the same? Who came up with that

[boreal ingot]

How does it have a disapproving connotation?

It just means someone who's good at seduction and flirting and whatnot

[signal shell]

Yes

[verbal heron]

it gives an idea of someone having a flirtatious disposition

[boreal ingot]

Yeah, I agree. 'Triggers' are supposed to be serious things

[signal shell]

Yeah I was downplaying it when I put those words in

[boreal ingot]

That's not a particularly negative thing though

[verbal heron]

It can be disapproving

to some

[signal shell]

The connotations behind words change fairly often as language evolves

So many words have gone from good to bad, and bad to good

[hasty trout]

True, some words literally change meaning to opposite

[verbal heron]

People nowadays even use the word "cringe" as a noun, though they are unaware of its meaning

[signal shell]

The word "discriminate" had good connotations a long long time ago

[hasty trout]

10 years later: "no rizz" means being a cool person

[signal shell]

Now it's basically the worst thing ever a human can do

[verbal heron]

The complete oppoosite

At least in the realms of social media

[boreal ingot]

I think that would be subjective. It depends on the speaker's attitude towards flirtatious behaviour and their age. I should think that older fellows would use the word 'rizzler' disapprovingly. I, as I lean away from slang generally, tend to avoid the term as a whole, but I don't think it's inherently a disapproving one

[boreal ingot]

yea exactly

[signal shell]

That wouldn't surprise me at all tbh

[hasty trout]

?

[verbal heron]

It's still disapproving, but not derogatory

[verbal heron]

Hm

[boreal ingot]

'manipulate' gained mostly negative connotations, the meaning of 'literally' literally flipped, and unquie things are just unusual and uncommon now, not one of a kind

iss very cool

[boreal ingot]

As I said, it depends on the speaker whether it's disapproving

many younger people use it in actual praise

[verbal heron]

People 10 years later would think that a person with no rizz skills is boring

[signal shell]

Yes I agree there is a large demographic that has a positive view of "rizzler"

[verbal heron]

I agree with that

[verbal heron]

That's true, but it's hilarious to me somehow

[hasty trout]

Now that I think a bit more, I can see it being something like "no rizz" = "acting cool, like an adult"

[boreal ingot]

Not to forget, my favourite, 'ejuaculate' used to not be sexual at all, it and 'boner'

[verbal heron]

😆

what did 'boner' mean at that time?

[hasty trout]

Words change meaning over time, that what my comment was to

[verbal heron]

cool in the genz sense?

[hasty trout]

Yeah

[hasty trout]

No, overall

[boreal ingot]

just silly jokes

[verbal heron]

Ah I see

[signal shell]

I think by now, we have established that some age groups will use certain words with differing connotations from other age groups. This, I think, is the motivation to a lot of this generation categorization that we have now. It is an attempt to categorize the different generations into who understands each other the best when it comes to common experiences and common slang or speech patterns

[boreal ingot]

or also, looking online, apparently it meant 'silly mistake' not 'silly joke'. It seems I was a bit misinformed*

[signal shell]

But I think I have seen this taken too far

[hasty trout]

Well isn't that a just silly joke now

[verbal heron]

Cool nowdays even refers to alpha, beta, gamma, delta epsilon

[signal shell]

I've already seen some attempt to claim that those born this year are the first of gen beta

[verbal heron]

Lol, thanks for the info

[hasty trout]

Do you mean greek letters or what

[signal shell]

But we have no clue what shared experiences or language they will have to make them distinct from another generation

It drives me crazy

[verbal heron]

No, just how they nowadays describe people's disposition

But I said that in an exaggerated way

:alpha, beta, gamma, omega, etc.

[hasty trout]

Kinda BS cuz it doesn't take in account anything else. Or does anyone seriously think that I'll have same slang as ppl born jn Mongolia or Korea or USA or Lesotho just cuz we were born same year?

[boreal ingot]

Weren't the generations an advertising thing? Spliting people into age strata, or year-range strata, to better know what they'd be interested in and push it?

I think it then became mainstream becuase people found it useful for doing what you said

but I might be wrong

not sure

[hasty trout]

Yeah IIRC this year the new "gen" begins

[signal shell]

It is becoming like astrology now

You have certain qualities based on when you are born

[boreal ingot]

yea, I will be the first one to say I don't know most of the stereotypes for the gens. I just know gen alpha are considered brainrot

[hasty trout]

Typical Scorpio thing to say /j

[signal shell]

I'm a virgo tho

[boreal ingot]

I dont even know my sign

do you even call it a sign

[hasty trout]

Typical virgo thing too

[signal shell]

Yes, you used the term correctly

[hasty trout]

I think yeah

[boreal ingot]

thanks you two

I was born 13 of june

what does that make me lol

lemme look up

[signal shell]

Gemini

[boreal ingot]

oh yea

[signal shell]

I only know because your birthday is in between my father and my sister, and they are both Gemini

[boreal ingot]

oh lol

[hasty trout]

I only know my sign and nothing else

[boreal ingot]

I dont get the personality types, or the astrology signs, or the gens. Like, how can people memorise so many things to accociate with so many lables

[signal shell]

People go crazy for that stuff

People love labels

As much as I love math

[hasty trout]

It is how it is ig

[boreal ingot]

as much as I love language

[signal shell]

If I can learn so much math, then I shouldn't be surprised when others learn so much of this stuff

[hasty trout]

But yk why astrology doesn't work? Cuz nobody would have to ask "what's your sign" if it worked

[hasty trout]

Let's divide people into numbers and do calculus with them

[boreal ingot]

that's such a flying unicorn crab thing to say

[signal shell]

Great idea

[signal shell]

Lmao

[boreal ingot]

That's called statistics

[signal shell]

Or numerology

[boreal ingot]

I don get it but sounds like astrology but with numbers

[hasty trout]

Basically that's it, yeah

[boreal ingot]

Interesting

This is very English questions of us tho

[hasty trout]

I remember how in school, well, technical school, our educator were giving us some BS like that to see what numbers of letters in our names mean

[signal shell]

I love math but I hate numerology

Numerology to me is just blatant misuse and misunderstanding of what math is meant to be used for

[hasty trout]

Speaking of which, how do y'all say possessive of "y'all"? Like you > your, me > mine, y'all > y'alls?

[boreal ingot]

It's like, astronomy has astrology, maths has numerology, and chemistry has alchemy lol

What does linguistics have 😔

[boreal ingot]

Your or y'all's

[hasty trout]

And geology has flat earth

[verbal heron]

My sign is aquarious

[boreal ingot]

Oh wait, possessive pronoun not determiner

Idk actually

[boreal ingot]

Is that a real sign or are we saying words

[verbal heron]

is there any other person here with thhis zOdiac sign?

[signal shell]

Well, alchemy was actually somewhat useful until science learned a better way to think about materials and chemicals. Astrology and numerology have always been hogwash

[verbal heron]

words lol

the name of the sign I mean

[signal shell]

Y'alls or y'all's, I guess

Very informal though

[verbal heron]

the former is more commonly used tho

[boreal ingot]

Sorry my sign is verisimilitudinous :3

[signal shell]

That's an actual sign lol

But I like the one you made up more

[boreal ingot]

Oh thas interesting, I didn't know

[hasty trout]

Remember I once said how some ppl in Russia believe that all languages came out of russian? Probably stuff like that, pseudolinguists

[verbal heron]

That's not even a zodiac sign that is in my knowledge

[boreal ingot]

Cuz it isn't one lmao

[verbal heron]

what is an 'actual' sign?

[verbal heron]

lol

what kind of sign is it then?

[signal shell]

Yeah, I believe Isaac Newton had studied alchemy to some extent. Because chemistry as we know it now didn't really exist at the time

[boreal ingot]

I think Sergio meant possesive pronoun, like 'yours'?

Y'all, the cat that's y'all's just ran away
?

[verbal heron]

rather confusing imo

even if it's correct

[hasty trout]

E.g. some people believe how word "strawberry" came from russian "с трав бери" which translates like "from grass take" and sounds like somewhat like "s trav beri"

[signal shell]

I believe alchemy was the prevailing theory of matter for a while and it did help science discover how elements interact with one another. We even learned that molecules form through the study of alchemy.

[hasty trout]

There's more of that BS but I don't remember it

[boreal ingot]

Just a word lmao. I thought we were making signs up

[boreal ingot]

Does this work?

[hasty trout]

I meant like "his cat, your favourite" or smth like that

[verbal heron]

Could be true as well

[signal shell]

Yeah, he gave "your" and "mine" as examples, so it's unclear exactly which he meant, but I think my answer works for both scenarios, so I didn't question it

[boreal ingot]

Damn Ive always thought abt it as this silly nonscientific version of chemistry

[hasty trout]

That's complete BS cuz they just take stuff that sounds similar and say "they took it from us"

[boreal ingot]

Now I'm just wondering what the second person plural possessive pronoun would be, would 'y'all's' work?

[hasty trout]

Also how would that explain blueberry or blackberry

[verbal heron]

I would call it 'hunch' than bs

because you cannot even prove it wrong

[signal shell]

Yeah, there is a lot of "science fiction" that developed around the ideas in alchemy, so it's hard to tell what the alchemists really believed and what was fictional, unless you really look at the history more carefully. Pop culture will definitely give the impression of science fiction or pseudoscience.

[verbal heron]

Btw what is alchemy?

[hasty trout]

I mean "blue" sounds similar to "puke" ig so by that logic blueberry is like "puke and take"?

[signal shell]

Yeah I think I would use y'all's or y'alls for both

[boreal ingot]

I see thank youu

[verbal heron]

ah, you are right

[signal shell]

Just like the word "his" basically

[hasty trout]

We know for a fact it's wrong cuz we have etymology tree that goes way before russian language even was a thing

[verbal heron]

But encountering such a situation when people would have to use such word is highly unlikely to happen

at least in our modern life

[hasty trout]

It's something like saying that German article die is written exactly as English word die so Americans created German language

[signal shell]

It's the precursor to chemistry. It was the science of how we understood the composition of materials and how they interact or change. It is an obsolete field of science.

[verbal heron]

Was there a proto-russian language?

[hasty trout]

Proto-slavic I think

[verbal heron]

Then it's not only precursor to chemistry but to physics too

[hasty trout]

Actually there were like Church Slavic (kinda more saint one) and Old Russian, at least that's what it's called in Russian

[verbal heron]

aight aight

[signal shell]

Maybe particle physics, in particular, yes

[hasty trout]

And basically all slavic languages came from there

[verbal heron]

Did they use to follow the Cyrillic alphabet back then as well?

[boreal ingot]

Could you tell me if this is an Irish accent? I found it fascinating how this person spirantises their k's

@signal shell

[verbal heron]

Still it's a branch of physics

[hasty trout]

Cyrillic alphabet was made by two Bulgarians for church slavic iirc

[signal shell]

Yeah I would believe this is an Irish accent, but maybe Scottish. Idk for sure.

[boreal ingot]

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be learnt :p

[verbal heron]

part of physics to be precise

[boreal ingot]

Yea I can't tell the two apart either

[verbal heron]

Ah, what script did they follow before they created the cyrilic one?

[signal shell]

Northern Ireland and Scotland share very similar accents

[verbal heron]

But nowadays people often look for simplifying things

Apart from the authors obviously

[boreal ingot]

Eh

[boreal ingot]

I didn't know that. Thas good to know

[verbal heron]

or else you would not shorten 'you all' to 'yall'

[hasty trout]

I'm not sure tbh

[signal shell]

There are so many accents in Ireland. It's insane

There's two very distinct accents just in the city of Dublin

North and south

[verbal heron]

it's alright

[verbal heron]

And in my country, most states have their own languages, though Hindi makes it easier for us to communicate. But whenever we speak English we speak it in a way that seems like we are talking or reading in our native language

We have 22 official languages

[signal shell]

Yeah I've heard that about India. I'm baffled

[verbal heron]

XD

But we make do with Hindi

at least the north indians. Most south indians do not even wish to learn Hindi

[rapid ingot]

Do you say we're brothers from different mothers or father?

[signal shell]

Mother

[rapid ingot]

So we have the same father?

[signal shell]

That's not what we are implying when we say that

It means that, even though we may not be blood related, we treat each other as closely as real siblings would.

[rapid ingot]

Okay thanks Mr ross

Can I hug you

Hugs

[signal shell]

Thanks

[cloud badge]

In western Pennsylvania they use the word 'yinz' for that. In Eastern Pennsylvania, New Jersey, delaware, and up to new york, many people say 'you's' as in 'yous guys'. For example 'we gotta move all yous guys/yinz cars before the show tonight'

[signal shell]

Very interesting

[hasty trout]

Interesting

[cloud badge]

Another yous example, a waitress could ask 'what do all yous want to drink'. Just wanted to share about the slang in places that dont say y'all.

[boreal ingot]

I think I've heard of 'yous' before, but I can't say I've seen 'yinz'. I've also heard that Irish English still uses 'ye' for the plural

Although this article seems to suggest it's a bit more complicated than just 'you' and 'ye'
https://stancarey.wordpress.com/2016/01/25/ye-youse-and-yiz-in-irish-english-speech/

Yinz is funny sounding tho :p

[rapid bison]

:p

[cloud badge]

Yeah haha we (in New Jersey) make fun of them for that haha but its cool how there's such regional differences.

[high fox]

Which one is correct?

•The police are at the back of my car "or me'
•The police are behind me "or my car'

My cousin said at the back not behind so that's why I asking to you guys

[gaunt mango]

In the context where the police are directly behind you, you would say “the police are behind me”
However if they were searching the trunk of your car you could technically say “the police are at the back of my car”

[flat rune]

when doing the shadow technique am i supposed to do it while wearing headphones or am i supposed to be hearing myself while shadowing?

[flat rune]

What is the difference between sense and feel?

[cloud badge]

I think 'at' implies more that they're at one location, where as just saying behind could mean they're traveling or not. But i see both as being ok, just not 'at the back of me'.

[flat rune]

?

[signal shell]

You talking about me and my math interests?

I don't mean to overstate my math skills. I only have a minor in mathematics. But I do have a knack for tutoring the subject quite easily at any level from primary school to about 2nd or 3rd year of undergrad.

I remember just about everything

I currently have students from about 3rd year of primary to 3rd year of undergrad

You give me the impression to know quite a lot. I'm not sure I could think of it

Well, I did learn some linear programming while tutoring my undergraduate student

That was something I didn't know until recently

And despite it's name, it is unrelated to coding

Yes I'm tutoring subjects that I haven't learned simply because my student knows I can learn it very quickly and then teach it to him better than the teacher can

That topic took a couple hours to really explain properly and work out examples to illustrate the process

Yes, and the two phase simplex

And big M

And duality problems

All that stuff. You seem to be familiar

Something that struck me as odd several days ago was that you brought up the 1.96 sigma thing regarding scientific standards of confidence levels. I thought it was odd that you used 1.96 sigma rather than 2 sigma, which is what I remember using for 95% confidence intervals. But then I remembered that it's not precisely 95% when you use 2 sigma and then I figured you were using a more precise value of sigma to achieve exactly 95% confidence. I guess it doesn't matter which you choose, exactly 2 sigma to get approximately 95%, or exactly 95% to get approximately 2 sigma.

I wouldn't really know which is more standard

That's good to know

Right, that picture is what I have in my head

I don't know those more precise values of 34.1 and 13.6

But I know the more estimated values

I could just rattle off some quirky things I randomly learn from the internet. Like, 1+2+3+3+5+6+... = -1/12

See? There's nothing I can teach you on this topic lol

Yeah I've learned a fair amount of binary and hexadecimal, but I'm not entirely sure what all these are used for. I'm sure there are common arithmetic operations where these can be useful shortcuts to reduce computation time

I love trying to optimise the code I write

But there are definitely some tricks I haven't learned

[boreal ingot]

My lack of [action in accordance with your words] must show that I do not take you seriously.
Does the part in bold work and make sense?

[tepid basalt]

Can someone help me develop this : Even though it's evident that their social or other origins have affected their lives, the main characters fight it by rebelling in their own ways to prove that they are not defined by their origins.

[agile crow]

It makes sense

[agile crow]

I don't see anything wrong with that sentence.

[tepid basalt]

Okay thanks

[boreal ingot]

Just to check if it has the intended meaning: 'action in accordance with your words' = 'action that follows what you said', yeah?

[agile crow]

yeah, that is the meaning I get from it

[boreal ingot]

alrighty, thanks

[cloud badge]

This could be just my preference but I'd recommend using 'accordance to' rather than 'accordance with', otherwise seems all good to me c:

[cloud badge]

It might be good to replace one of the times you use 'their origins' with a synonym. Otherwise it's alright to me c:

[flat rune]

What's the difference between neighborhood and quarter

[gaunt mango]

“Quarter” is used more in europe, and refers to historic areas (more often)
“Neighborhood” is common in both America and global English and refers to residential living areas in towns or cities

[cloud badge]

No it's not incorrect.

[flat rune]

Basically whern you go to europe

[gaunt mango]

“In accordance with” is correct while “accordance to” is incorrect, perhaps you’re thinking of “according to”

[flat rune]

for example in France you'll say quarter for a neighborhood

[gaunt mango]

It’s more used for historic areas iirc

But I’m sure they would understand it

[cloud badge]

You said accordance to both times there?

[gaunt mango]

Typo

Already fixed

[verbal heron]

I think it would be too obscure for people from Asia

[flat rune]

And in Usa you say neighborhood for historic areas

Usa or Uk

[gaunt mango]

No, “neighborhood” refers to an area of residence

“She lives in that neighborhood”

[verbal heron]

What connotations does “quarter” have?

Apart from 1/4

[gaunt mango]

A historic area

Like mentioned above

[verbal heron]

Wait, quarter final is also a thing right

Or is quater final?

[gaunt mango]

Yeah but I would group that with 1/4 personally

Cause it refers to the quarter to the final

[verbal heron]

I see, is it used to refer to a historical area in west only?

[gaunt mango]

I don’t see it being used in the US at all, and I’m not 100% sure about its usage in Europe but from what I’ve read it’s more common there

[flat rune]

Either you say quarter or you say historic area

so everybody will be able to understand you

[verbal heron]

I see, alright

[verbal heron]

What's the equivalent term for that in your language?

[rapid bison]

is quarter also an area/intention of imprisonment kinda thing 🤔

[gaunt mango]

Haven’t heard it used but it might be

[flat rune]

Quarter is quartier and historic area is site historique

[gaunt mango]

“Quarters” also refers to a small personal area of living

[rapid bison]

I have heard of the term "no quarter", hence my question

[gaunt mango]

In the idiom “close quarters” it means very close, in a limited space

[gaunt mango]

From what I’ve read, “no quarter” essentially means no mercy

[rapid bison]

I just checked too
it's no imprisonments allowed and every losing combatant must be killed

so "no mercy" but a bit different

[gaunt mango]

I see

[cloud badge]

I don't see why the preposition matters, but i guess using to just sounds better than with to me in that instance. I looked it up and am seeing many examples of it used. IDK, maybe there's only certain circumstances you can do it..

[verbal heron]

Isn't 'in accordance with' a phrase in common usage (formal)?

[cloud badge]

I didn't say it wasn't

[verbal heron]

It's a phrase, not wordplay by an author

so I don't think any part of the phrase can be replaced with another word unless (we) aim for unnecessary emphasis

But it would definitely make sense to people even if some part of it were reworded, or replaced with another expression/phrase/ word

[cloud badge]

I shared my opinion based on other texts ive seen using 'accordance to', which i prefer.

[gaunt mango]

“Accordance” cannot follow “to”

Sorry inverse that

To cannot follow accordance

It doesn’t naturally pair

[cloud badge]

It does to me, and others in certain circumstances

[gaunt mango]

To implies direction or movement

“In compliance WITH the rules”
“In compliance TO the rules”

Here is an example for with/to

With makes more sense because it implies connection with

[cloud badge]

Well i think you can make a connection to something as well

[verbal heron]

But if some author uses it in their work, and people embrace it and start using it, then we would say that they pair naturally

[gaunt mango]

If that happens then I guess yeah

[cloud badge]

Which i will be doing

[verbal heron]

🎉

[gaunt mango]

But “accordance” is most commonly followed by “with”

[verbal heron]

Yea

and that's how things work

[verbal heron]

what does 'in conformity with' mean?

[gaunt mango]

In agreement with, following a standard or rule

[verbal heron]

is it the same as 'in accordance with?'

[gaunt mango]

Then for now you will be grammatically incorrect

[verbal heron]

Yea

But not in your own piece of writing

[cloud badge]

So is not using whom, but I'll never use that either, haha.

[stark river]

too britsh

[gaunt mango]

I would argue the non-use of whom is significantly more standardized

The biggest reason why people don’t use “accordance to” as much is because both “in accordance with” and “according to” are much more common and at the moment, are grammatically correct

[cloud badge]

Standardization has to start somewhere, and I'm not the first to use to there instead, i think id use to in most cases that you argued should use with. I wonder why that trend is natural to me, maybe just people in my area do that or something.

[gaunt mango]

Linguistic simplification, maybe

[cloud badge]

I have no idea.

[gaunt mango]

Sorry I didn’t answer this, not necessarily

[verbal heron]

Under what circumstances do you think they might overlap

[cloud badge]

Because it IS used. As i said in my first comment 'this may be a preference' so leave me alone @median fractal

Im doing my best to help and you're being a grammar nazi. Leave me alone.

It goes up at the end, you don't know that that's not from where im from, literally leave me alone. If your disagree, tell the op, stop antagonizing me.

[stark river]

guys do you suggest a way to start to develop a good accent?

[boreal ingot]

Quarters means place where you live/your part of the house: 'I shall go slumber in my quarters'

[cloud badge]

Imitating the sounds as closely as you can, without looking at the spelling can help. Sometimes we get the way letters sound in our language in the way of how they sound in another. Writing words or phrases how they sound in your own alphabet can help too.

[verbal heron]

Thanks. But is quarter still used?

[verbal heron]

Even though I am not a native, I suggest you to learn the phonetic alphabet first

[stark river]

so its more like spelling the words in the way we usually talk

[verbal heron]

What's your native language?

[stark river]

arabic

[stark river]

will check that out

[cloud badge]

The only area in the us that i know to use quarter is 'the french quarter' a primarily French speaking neighborhood of New Orleans

[verbal heron]

Then I think Scella can help you better

[verbal heron]

at least you should be acquainted with basic symbols

[boreal ingot]

Not much I don't think. But you'd have to ask others

[verbal heron]

Oh I see, do you think it's somewhat archaic?

[boreal ingot]

Huhhh

I suck at helping ppl lmao

[verbal heron]

But as both of you speak the same language, I though you could help him with it

[boreal ingot]

Their role says fluent; I'm advanced. Couldn't help them

[verbal heron]

If someone is fluent you have to understand that they can express their thoughts clearly. They will be familiar with the terms used in real life situations. But if someone is advanced they do not just believe 'hunches', they always endeavour to deavour substantiated data

[boreal ingot]

Lol I speak English more than Arabic. I can't really help them much in Arabic. Besides, I'm no accent coache, I just point out what I hear and think sounds off

[stark river]

i mean if i have a conversation with somebody i can deliver the message probably but i sometimes mix accents with eachother and its pretty noticable

[boreal ingot]

I think this server treats fluent as a rank above advanced, even though you're right in saying someone fluent just needs to be able to communicate without struggle

[stark river]

yeah the lack of words is a problem too :p

[verbal heron]

ah, that's a white lie ( not an idiom in english; it's borrowed from Hindi, meaning: certain lie). You are one of the most active helpers, who often corroborates their points with meaningful data

[gaunt mango]

It became an English idiom

[boreal ingot]

It's used in English. Means small lie, innocent one, unimportant

[stark river]

haha its alright im a bad teacher aswell

[boreal ingot]

But yea, thank you 😅 I try

[stark river]

but i think you know the problem since in middle east we dont encounter alot with our fellow english brothers an sisters

[cloud badge]

I think using quarter to refer to a room is, but not to that area of new orleans. It's like a title of the area, like how Philadelphia has 'Old City' or nyc has 'Chinatown' or 'Little Italy'

[stark river]

i think learning british accent is impossiable since i lack alot of words and stuff

that requaries alot of knowlage

[flat rune]

What's ya accent?

[boreal ingot]

It doesn't seem to have come from Hindi, rather just from the association of white with goodness

[stark river]

or just talk to a british person for like a month

bloody hell~

[boreal ingot]

Tilde 😭

[verbal heron]

it's alright lol, I hope you will get to an advanced level in Arabic too, enon

[verbal heron]

Can you put all your ideas into words?

[boreal ingot]

Aw thanks. My accent is a British-ish one, but some American pronunciations slip in lol. Ofc, it's not 100% British. I couldn't pass off as a native

Not most, but surely some lmao

[stark river]

its like feeding your cat, one of you should die to stop the cycle lol

[boreal ingot]

I have no idea how to get that lol. But I speak sort of slowly

[stark river]

usually

[verbal heron]

Yea, a fluent speake may not be much familiar with words such as ephemeral, but even if they do not know the word. They will make do with "short-living" by providing with some extra info

[signal shell]

Essentially, syllables per second

[verbal heron]

read widely

[flat rune]

I know ephemeral
It is discord api feature

[stark river]

golden fish memory uwaaaaa

[verbal heron]

I just gave an example 🤧

[stark river]

i just realized vampire put himself as beginner and he is better than me xd

[boreal ingot]

I see, I see. I don't know how many syllables I say per second :p
I also would assume it's pretty variable

[flat rune]

كم عدد حروف الابجدية العربية

[fierce swift]

Any senior staff can do it. You just have to apply through ticket.

[verbal heron]

that's a new info to me, thank you to the three of you @median fractal @gaunt mango @boreal ingot

[boreal ingot]

Here you go

[stark river]

brillient

[flat rune]

More than french

[stark river]

who cares

[flat rune]

I wasn't talking to you

[verbal heron]

And can you describe complex situations?

[verbal heron]

👋👍

I hope that's a title of a book

[boreal ingot]

Yea, we also have vowels written as optional diacritics (that's why it's an abjad), so you could say it's a bit more

[flat rune]

I started to learn it but i gave up

[boreal ingot]

Nope

[verbal heron]

The 'ha na ni' ones?

or you mean evanescence?

🤧

Japanese

word

[stark river]

i know bro i was just gonna say that arabic has 10000 words that discribe one single thing, so imagine th number of words you need to learn lol

[verbal heron]

I thought you were gonna teach me new English words lmao, but thanks

[flat rune]

ok

[stark river]

uhhh not very clear

[boreal ingot]

I'm a native but the quran is written in older more complicated language. It's also Classical Arabic, which isn't what we use daily. I also overall just have meh reading comprehension of Modern Standard and Classical Arabic, cuz I don't read books in Arabic

[flat rune]

That's why I prefer to read books written in english

[boreal ingot]

Doesn't polysemy mean one word has multiple meanings, not one meaning has multiple words?
I believe they were describing the latter

[stark river]

is this a question?

[flat rune]

You were born in Algeria?

[boreal ingot]

No?

[flat rune]

Fun fact
I read quran and bible once
The quran didn't change my religion only make me prouder christian

[flat rune]

It was just a question

[stark river]

oh i got it, thats too specific

[flat rune]

If the quran were in arabic that* you speak, would you be reading it?

[boreal ingot]

No idea lol

[flat rune]

كم عدد اللغات التي يمكنك التحدث بها؟

[stark river]

reading it in english doesnt cover everything, even as a native arabic speaker some of quran's words are too hard that one word can mean alot of meanings

[vague ginkgo]

why i am black?

i want to be white

[flat rune]

I'm not reassured

[stark river]

thats what your ancestors said

[stark river]

about what

[flat rune]

And me i wish i were a native english speaker

[boreal ingot]

Probably not. I overall don't like to read in Arabic :p But I'm also not interested in reading a religious text.

Most Arabic countries have a diglossia. Where the local dialect is the L variety and MSA is the H variety. We are taught MSA in schools, and it's used in books and on the news, in some kids' cartoons, and so on

[flat rune]

I plan to learn arabic

[stark river]

nice

where are you from?

[flat rune]

I began to learn it but i gave up

[verbal heron]

While rendering into English, they may not even be able to maintain fidelity

[flat rune]

I struggled with the vowels

[flat rune]

France

[stark river]

sadge

[stark river]

yup

[stark river]

nice to meet you

why were you planning to learn arabic in the first place?

[flat rune]

Ty u too

[flat rune]

Because i'd like to speak arabic and i'd enjoy to read the quran in it

[stark river]

aww thats very nice

sadly learning it online is not a good start

you need a teacher

[signal shell]

With some searching around, I stumbled upon "polyonymy" and "polyonymous". Closest thing I could find. What do you think?

[flat rune]

Either way i gave up

For now i'm learning english*

[verbal heron]

polyonymy?

[stark river]

polyonymy is close enough

i had a stroke spelling it tho

[stark river]

good luck in your journy

[verbal heron]

what resources are ya using?

[flat rune]

ty

[flat rune]

I don't plan to aim c1

So i ask help when i see a word i don't know

[verbal heron]

you cannot even do that in a short time

[flat rune]

ik

I just want B2

[boreal ingot]

Ohh nice word

[flat rune]

In french i am even not c1

[verbal heron]

Do you read novels in english?

[flat rune]

and i don't read books in french

[verbal heron]

why tho?

Try to learn basic grammar

that will be a sufficient

for you

[flat rune]

I already know

I am a native

[stark river]

for me i learnt english through gaming (story telling games)

might that help if you want

[signal shell]

Valent is a word involving the number of arguments that a verb takes. But I suppose we can make this word more polysemic. 😁

[flat rune]

same

I've learnt english thanks to minecraft

[stark river]

we all study english in school but its not enough

[stark river]

noice

i wonder how

[flat rune]

I set my game in english

[verbal heron]

Minecraft is not even storytype

[stark river]

like the name of items

[flat rune]

Doesn't matter

[verbal heron]

Bruh

you mix up Chemistry, Maths, Bio with English

[cloud badge]

Yeah i only know valent from covalent bonds and stuff in chemistry... my favorite subject 🧪

[flat rune]

it's cool to elarn maths in english

Better than in french

[verbal heron]

hm

me too

[signal shell]

Valence electrons

[verbal heron]

but you once said that Phy is your fav sun

[cloud badge]

Chem is your favorite or that's how you know valent?

[stark river]

what games u play usually?

[cloud badge]

Oh did I?

[verbal heron]

the latter

[flat rune]

minecraft csgo

[verbal heron]

yea

[flat rune]

Electrons

How many electrons does the hydrogen have

[verbal heron]

why? because they use fancy terms?

[flat rune]

idk why

[stark river]

i used to play csgo and minecraft alot

[cloud badge]

IDK i love them both, but i went to school for scientific glassblowing so chemistry has a warmer place in my heart.

[verbal heron]

How many electrons does a proton have?

[stark river]

[boreal ingot]

Huh

[flat rune]

If there's only 1 electron, then you have one proton

Protons = electrons

[verbal heron]

not in excited state tho

[flat rune]

Thus idk

[verbal heron]

well

[stark river]

thanks for your wisdom sir

[verbal heron]

Which section do you prefer? Organic or inorganic?

[stark river]

i sent you a friend request maybe we can play together one day @flat rune

[verbal heron]

too conceited huh, well

[flat rune]

Np

[cloud badge]

Probably inorganic considering my focus is in glass

[verbal heron]

💀

Block chemistry?

[stark river]

cya all later gonna eat some unhealthy stuff

[verbal heron]

Cya 👋

[cloud badge]

IDK, I like doing stoichiometry and I like experimenting with what can be mixed into glass. I don't think there's an umbrella term for my interests.

[signal shell]

Yeah I often look towards the smart people for good ideas

[stark river]

does it work?

[signal shell]

Sometimes

[signal shell]

Are you talking about ionization?

[verbal heron]

yes

[boreal ingot]

Why is everyone here in some smart field

[verbal heron]

aside from Vampire

[signal shell]

This is the place where smart people can come to answer questions, I think, and show off how smart they are, lol

[verbal heron]

[signal shell]

Yes, a hater like you only comes around once in a generation

[boreal ingot]

I'm gonna get smart and come here to show it. Give me a few years

[rapid ingot]

Hmm

Guys chatgpt exist

[boreal ingot]

Wow

Thanks I didn't know

[verbal heron]

we should preserve that “hater” for research

[flat rune]

Imma accepyt

[verbal heron]

inside our "honey bottle"

[signal shell]

I believe in you. But also, I believe you are pretty smart already as you are

[verbal heron]

I agree with you

[boreal ingot]

Oh wow, thank you However I believe I have much to learn

[signal shell]

I never follow such things, idek what lmarena is

[boreal ingot]

Same

[signal shell]

I believe I have much to learn as well

[cloud badge]

You def seem smart already, critical thinking is one of the biggest parts and just asking questions on here alone shows you care about that. you don't need to be in any specific field to be smart c:

But yeah keep it up ^-^

[verbal heron]

Nah

You cannot just praise your antecedents like that

this is just a hunch

no, it's not

[signal shell]

"Redundancy" feels like a nice fit

[boreal ingot]

I was mainly talking about knowledge I guess

Learned bunch

[signal shell]

Well, then whatever I am is not "smart" because I cultivated whatever this is

[cloud badge]

The more we learn, the smarter we get is how i see it c:

[verbal heron]

most english words have more than one meaning

as if it makes 'em great

[signal shell]

Probably my DZ twin will be smarter than me lol

But I am a dummy

[cloud badge]

Ur not, but if you think you are, you can always try methods for improving and taking advantage of your neuroplasticity to make you smarter

Neuroplasticity is an amazing thing, to me

[signal shell]

Right, I'm a dummy who has nurtured the knowledge that I have

My neuro is very plastic

[boreal ingot]

Is your neuro green?

I would hate for the fish to be hurt by your neuro; it needs to be biodegradable

[flat rune]

Dang i encountered many scammers today

[boreal ingot]

How unfortunate

[verbal heron]

while playing mc?

[flat rune]

Someone wanted my paypal to give me $3000 someone tried to put me in a cryptorenaisance investment company and someone else tried to obtain some personal information

[flat rune]

not rn

[vast walrus]

Hey everyone

[boreal ingot]

hii

[vast walrus]

Hey scella 🙂

[boreal ingot]

creepy smiley face

did discord convert ':)' to '🙂' lol

question, is this correct?

Of whose lies are you speaking?

[vast walrus]

True, i'm plotting your downfall so i can be #1 english helper

[boreal ingot]

girl you dont evenn havee the English helper roleee

[vast walrus]

wow there's a role

[boreal ingot]

But I'm nowhere near the best lol

[vast walrus]

ive gotta up my game

[boreal ingot]

Yeah, you can apply for it by making a ticket

[vast walrus]

They will look at my history and be like hell no this guy doesnt fit

[boreal ingot]

what's wrong with your history

Your English seems fine

[verbal heron]

mick's a girl?

[boreal ingot]

Well, idk actually

[vast walrus]

They might see the time i asked what an adverb is... OOPS

[vast walrus]

No 😆

[boreal ingot]

I use 'girl' too readily

Sorry Mick

[verbal heron]

lol

[boreal ingot]

lmao, sare you a native?

[vast walrus]

maybe...

[vast walrus]

it's okay you can girl me

[boreal ingot]

Natives typically have no idea what's going on when it comes to adverbs and adjictives and all that

god i CAN'T SPELL

adjectives*

[verbal heron]

Most of them do not even care abt them

[verbal heron]

no need to edit it

[vast walrus]

Yep exactly, i think i learnt waht an adverb is when i was 6 and then never again

[verbal heron]

Like what'd you do with it anyway

what's pisa?

[boreal ingot]

I have had to explain what a verb is to some

But yea, I guess that depends in the school

[verbal heron]

How did you explain?

[verbal heron]

Also on their own mindset

as well as the place where they were brought up

[vast walrus]

Verb is a doing word i think

I learnt what an infinitive phrase was for the first time yesterday

that shit is hard, how tf can a phrase act as a noun/adverb/adjective that dont make no sense

[verbal heron]

that must be a joke

[vast walrus]

Nope 😆

[boreal ingot]

'a word that describes an action or state' then I went on to add that they normally can have '-ing' added to them and '-ed'
I don't know how auxiliary verb fall into that definition though

[verbal heron]

lol, but you often offer help to people when you feel that it's needed

[verbal heron]

yea, I think there could be a different definition for it

[verbal heron]

But that's how we are taught

Even if you knew the definition, what would it alter?

[vast walrus]

Well, i don't know what to call most things like past particuple and present perfect and all that crap i just know what the right thing is

[verbal heron]

just that you would be able to write some article on newspaper

[verbal heron]

~Tense

[boreal ingot]

Two questions:

Of whose lies are you speaking?
Is this correct? ^

Natives typically don't know anything about verbs, nouns, adjectives, and so on—that whole grammatical enchilada.
Have I used 'whole enchilada' correctly? ^

[verbal heron]

what does enchilada mean here?

[boreal ingot]

it's an idiom

meaning 'everything' basically. Kind of like 'all that jazz', if you've heard it

[verbal heron]

What's the idiom?

[waxen cradle]

Yes, both are correct.
The first one is a bit "awkward", in the sense that it is only seen in writing. When speaking casually, a native speaker would probably say "Whose lies are you talking about?".

[boreal ingot]

'the whole enchilada'

[waxen cradle]

Yes, this is correct!

[boreal ingot]

Thank you thank you 💜

[vast walrus]

Number 2 is right, number 1 is kinda confusing me

we dont say whole enchilada in uk cos we dont have much mexican food we just say that whole thing

[boreal ingot]

Person 1: Don't listen to all his lies!
Person 2: Whose lies? Of whose lies are you speaking?
^ for context

[waxen cradle]

I'm not sure what riidefi means by SES and g coded, but I do think "whole enchilada" is casual. It sometimes even sounds "comical" (for example, in a TV show, the funny character would be the most likely person to say "whole enchilada"). But without any context, it is fine as is.

[waxen cradle]

Here, I recommend "Whose lies? Whose lies are you speaking/talking about?"

It sounds like you are writing a conversation, so I recommend using this form which is more conversational! :)

[vast walrus]

But I think scella's character is like a badass kinda formal guy

Like a sith lord

Thats why he saying of whose lies are you speaking

[waxen cradle]

In that case, try "Whose lies? Whose lies are you referring to?!"

This comes off as formal, but also angry and "pressing for more information".

[boreal ingot]

I see, so while not necessarily incorrect, 'of whose' is too formal for your day-to-day communication?

[waxen cradle]

Yes!

[boreal ingot]

gal* but thanks lol

[vast walrus]

No i mean i thought you were writing a story and it was like a badass kinda dude saying that xd

[boreal ingot]

lmao that makes sense

[vast walrus]

well i think in normal conversation

someone would say whose lies? who are you talking about? rather than say whose lies again

[waxen cradle]

That is a possibility too, and it is also correct. But I prefer to repeat "whose" in this case. If you are writing fiction or writing a conversation, it is often nice to repeat exact words for emphasis.

In this situation, it sounds like the girl is urgently trying to discover who told a lie. She may repeat herself in the same exact words she already used, because she is thinking so quickly, and feeling so frantic. Repetition is a useful tool to add tension to the sentence without extra words!

[boreal ingot]

damn bot smh

Is it incorrect? 'speak of' gets the object 'whose lies': 'you are speaking of whose lies?'
And it seems to me that '[preposition] + [relative pronoun]' can always be fronted:

You speak to whom?
To whom do you speak?

I was seen with what?
With what was I seen?

So I would imagine this aplies to '[preposition] + "whose"'

You are speaking of whom?
Of whom are you speaking?

You are speaking of whose lies?
Of whose lies are you speaking?

Not to say that it's not formal or awkward, just trying to understand how it would be incorrect? Becuase now thinking about it, there seems to be no reason for it not to be correct

[boreal ingot]

I see.. Thanks a lot for the help Emily

I mean, nothing is being split there?

or ig the verb is split from the preposition

'speak of' becoems 'of ... speak'

I don't think the 'of' is related, the 'of' just heads the prepositional phrase to introduce the prepositional object of the verb 'speak'. The prepositional obect happens to contain the possesive relative pronoun 'whose'

If we use 'to' instead, it would still be the same

You are going to his house.
To whose house am I going?

I guess because we see 'whose' as equivalent to 'of whom', 'of whose' seems weird?

Of whose [x] -> Of the [x] of whom

I have no idea Im just an English lover

[verbal heron]

is that an experiment?

[boreal ingot]

what

[verbal heron]

your inversion of phrases

[boreal ingot]

Oh, seems pretty rare

[verbal heron]

I mean, structure

[boreal ingot]

Uh, Idk how it would count as an experiment 😅

[verbal heron]

no, we experiment when we are curious as to why something happens or what will happen if we do that

Do you think that's rather formal?

[flat rune]

hi

[lyric parcel]

quick question - im not sure i understand "then-wife" meaning

google is a bit confusing

The X owner has six children with his ex-wife Justine Wilson. Their first child, a boy named Nevada, died as an infant. He and his then-wife had five more children: twins and then a set of triplets. Musk later welcomed three children with musician Grimes, whose legal name is Claire Elise Boucher, and twins and another child with tech executive Shivon Zilis.

oh ok then-wife was Justine?

actually i think i got it now

yea thanks

I really thought Elon hates condom

but no, he believes in this movement

for having many kids

this article says 12, but then other article says 3 with Shivon so..thats 15??

or 14

oh oops i misread

insane either way

true..being fatherless defeats the purpose though

yea but not all 12 of them

and i heard some dont like him

[vast walrus]

It mean she were his wife at one point in time now not anymore

xd

sorreh xd

[lyric parcel]

wow i just hover over the icon next to username

i didnt know it tells us language level

[vast walrus]

Yep it does

[opaque topaz]

istg this channel makes my english worse

[boreal ingot]

This makes me wonder, does 'then wife' imply she's dead? Aka, 'late wife'? Or is it only that they're not together anymore?

[vast walrus]

Lol

why ?

[vast walrus]

not together i think, late wife is dead wife as you said

[boreal ingot]

How so? I think that the discussions that are had here facilitate growth

I see, alright

thank you

[vast walrus]

what about if the discussion is about the statistical anomalization of pi and all that stuff

[opaque topaz]

these linguistic terms feel ostentatious to me but i understand y ppl are discussing them

& the few times i check its like "what?" 😭 hurts my understanding of english more than it helps

[opaque topaz]

They definitely help a lot of ppl but i dont think it has made my english better

However it makes sense

[vast walrus]

I somewhat agree

Idk why these guys have very mathematical conversations

[opaque topaz]

theyre yapping about linguistics

and being pedantic about english which is okay of course. if you have like a uni degree in english or r learning it

learning french is the same 😭 learning abt all the terms and whatever

[opaque topaz]

Yeah its very interesting but vexing

[opaque topaz]

honestly i feel like it's analogous to math

[boreal ingot]

Fair enough, everyone learns differently. I'm a bit grammar-oriented in my approach as of late, but I definetly enjoy just absorbing the language as well

[opaque topaz]

You and I just get it. we can just "do the math" and manipulate it, but we dont rlly know like the process behind why or the rudiments of what we're using. & trying to break apart these rudiments just hinders our understanding bc we didn't begin with the rudiments or just see pictures of it

so unless we go back and look at "how to form the part participle" & learn abt semantics and synatx and all that its just a giant headache

[opaque topaz]

yes that's true

[opaque topaz]

in gr. 9 english last year we looked at the names & stuff like for gerunds, adverbials, etc. and ive completely forgotten them 😭

[vast walrus]

there's another english server where you wouldn't believe some of the answers that are given, lemme go find one to laugh at

"Calling it an adverb works generally, but isn't correct the more deep into the grammar you go. It's more or less a hollow, adjectival complement clause. Of course if you told your teacher that they'd either be impressed or have no idea what you're talking about - hopefully the former.

Transitive verbs can take infinitival complements, but depending on the framework "to" would be a complementizer (word which, roughly, introduces a complement clause) with the verb in the VP taking a base form, and not just a full-infinitive non-finite clause functioning as the argument of a transitive verb."

Like cmon now

[opaque topaz]

we use english to understand, not to understand english

[opaque topaz]

what the actual-

thats just being pompous 😭

[vast walrus]

This was just some kid that wanted homework help and got that

[opaque topaz]

may they rest in peace

in pieces

[opaque topaz]

i have asked for help for french and ig for a 2nd language when they use grammatical words to clarify it's good but there's a limit to that ofc

[opaque topaz]

when would u ever do that besides in like if u decide to go into that part of english in uni 😭 & even then, language's power comes from its purpose and capacity