📚｜english-questions

[hazy herald]

Word: mandate

Definition 1 (noun): a territory surrendered by Turkey or Germany after World War I and put under the tutelage of some other European power until they are able to stand by themselves
Definition 2 (noun): a document giving an official instruction or command
Definition 3 (verb): assign authority to

Other definitions can be found here

Definition requested by mus_simahin

[sacred frigate]

Mandate / order from general?

[flat rune]

Can you elaborate a bit there? I'm not sure what you're asking.

[sacred frigate]

Example: Our mandate was to defend this place

[flat rune]

Oh, as in the rank of general?

[wanton moss]

I suppose the very same exact phenomenon occurs among speakers of other languages. My native language is french and sometimes certain things sound right to me but later on I end up finding out that they’re completely incorrect :p

[flat rune]

If so, I suppose a general can mandate something, but I imagine 'order' or 'instructed' would be better suited.

[sacred frigate]

so basically means like order?

[flat rune]

When I think of mandating, I think of governments.

I think it's synonymous with 'order', yes.

[dense oasis]

J'aime la revolution et j'adore le escargot!

thats all i know. Not sure if its le or la escargot, tho, lmao

[flat rune]

But, I'm not 100% sure.

Loosely, I would understand 'mandate' as being very similar, but with different connotations, such as of governments.

[flat rune]

I something the Revolution and I love the snails? 😆

[wanton moss]

In this case it would be « les escargots » the same way as you would use the plural in English 🥸 but who on earth genuinely enjoys eating snails anyway ? ☠️

[flat rune]

I can't believe people eat such things, but to each their own.

[sacred frigate]

Another example: I just got a call with Isaac and we got a new mandate. Kill all trespassers

[dense oasis]

well, the most educated and intelligent, notable, dilligent experts on this topic are suggesting you should. I mean, me and the cambridge dictionary. But if you interpret the dictionary the way schuyler did, then i am the only expert left to claim this. So, I think my expertise is very dubious here lmfao, can be doubted (am kidding)

[flat rune]

Sounds good. I think the reason I like that, is that it's not clear who or what mandated that the trespassers be killed.

[wanton moss]

Where does this misconception come from by the way? I’ve never seen anybody in France being a fanatic of consuming snails ☠️ Is that genuinely how the rest of the world views us ? 😞

[dense oasis]

Exactly

[flat rune]

I'm not sure. It's a fairly common stereotype over here in the UK, I'm afraid. Kinda like how we all drink tea, have bad teeth, live in London, and speak like Hugh Grant.

I typed 'drank'. I blame you, Black Cat.

[wanton moss]

You are a self renowned scholar in linguistics aren’t you ? 🥸 you come off as somewhat being slightly ultracrepidarian ( I had to look up how to spell that word ☠️)

[flat rune]

Oh, and the stereotype that we all apologise every 5 seconds. While these things aren't exactly uncommon, they're not always the case. Just like, while eating snails is a thing in France, it's not something everyone does.

[cedar gate]

when i think of a french person as an american i think of the guy in textbooks that has that hat and striped shirt and mustache

[wanton moss]

Oh

What’s his name ?

It starts with an L

[cedar gate]

its very stereotypical of a depiction that is pretty ubiquitous i dont think he has a name specifically

[wanton moss]

But I see what you’re referring to

Charlie

I think his name is Charlie though

[flat rune]

I do a good French accent. Says the Brit who's never been to France.

I've been to Spain, so... close enough?

[dense oasis]

of course. @flat rune I, immensely respected authority, remind you that I hold 21555 PhDs in english literature. You can never even think about disagreeing with a single claim I make

[flat rune]

Similar language. Yeah, close enough.

[sacred frigate]

wow I like your avatar picture, Avatar Korra

[flat rune]

Pfft, PhDs aren't what they used to be. Nowadays, you'd need at least 40000.

[cedar gate]

Yeah I am rewatching the series now cause its been a long time since ive seen it and i forgot a lot of it

[sacred frigate]

very cool

[dense oasis]

sorry, a small mistake, I hold 21556 PhDs. The last one I won when I said "Donald Trump should be the president". He just flew his private jet to me and announced am gonna be given the 21556th one

[wanton moss]

I bet your french accent is superb 🥸 so is my British impersonation (it’s really not)

[flat rune]

I used to chat to a French bloke, some years back. I think I picked up some of his quirks, which kind of stuck with me.

[sacred frigate]

it's amazing that you understand every word they're saying, when I watched I was taking notes learning new words

[flat rune]

I think the only reason I make it sound good, is because I can make those back of the throat sounds, which I learned from German, and is par for the course in Scottish accents.

[wanton moss]

I’m quite intrigued as to what did that perhaps charming french lad teach you

[haughty leaf]

woa, well explained and well detailed! thank you so much for your hard work! I really appreciate it !

[flat rune]

😆 He was someone I played games with via Steam. Long time ago.

[wanton moss]

« Bloke », is that typical of the British dialect ?

[flat rune]

Yep.

[cedar gate]

that's a great way to learn, i have learned a bit of japanese from watching anime but with subtitles i don't learn or retain as well most likely

[sacred frigate]

ok avatar aang would be proud of you 😄

[flat rune]

Some of us do say 'lad' quite often, too.

[dense oasis]

I know one french girl. What i told you is exactly what i was taught. The snail thing comes from a french native, not me, lmao

[flat rune]

For example:

He's a right mad lad, that one.

[sacred frigate]

do you watch any cartoons for practicing english?

[wanton moss]

Splendid, I really look forward to travelling to Great Britain in the upcoming years. I’ll perhaps call every young man whom I meet, « bloke », lovely innit ?

[cedar gate]

my favorite british term i wish i could use is innit

[haughty leaf]

I find your explanation very understandable, thank you so much!

[flat rune]

😆 Go for it. It's nice over here, at least in some places. Saying 'bloke' would definitely get you some BritPoints™, but keep in mind that it's informal.

[cedar gate]

is english taught as having formal and informal forms

[wanton moss]

I’ll bear that in mind of course, thanks for the heads up, I’d rather not put myself in trouble innit, especially with the Brits 🥸

[cedar gate]

i know japanese is

or is it more just some stuff is called out that way as you go

[flat rune]

It's not like in German, or indeed Japanese, but there are formal and informal words, expressions, and structures of sentences. What is formal does seem to, at least partly, depend on the listener.

[lusty spear]

my English is poor. Can comprehensible input help me?

[flat rune]

Hi. What is "comprehensible input"?

[dense oasis]

it is, but not heavily. It is not like japanese, when you are taught about 敬語 、尊敬語、謙譲語. If you read these without google translate, then I am proud of you, because I barely can. They mean three different levels of politeness in japanese, keigo, sonkeigo, kenjougo (thats in the order i wrote them above too). Look them up if you like japanese, you will be amazed, unless you know them of course

[cedar gate]

there's so much subtle context for english formality.

Once a classmate of mine got in trouble for saying sir yes sir to a teacher, since it was interpreted as being mocking because it was exaggeratedly respectful

this was econ in high school

[lusty spear]

Video. English speaker talk very comprehensible

[flat rune]

You're exactly right there! It can be a minefield, and I feel genuinley bad for English learners having to navigate it.

[cedar gate]

a lot of natives don't really use formal or informal speech correctly tbh

[dense oasis]

should it be "yes professor"

[cedar gate]

or not correctly but

[flat rune]

"sir, yes sir" is usually used mockingly or jokingly, because it's something said in military contexts. It might've been seen as a challenge of authority.

"yes sir" is fine.

[cedar gate]

it really depends on your relationship with your teacher specifically a yes might suffice or a yes sir or yes, teacher

its like 50-60% the tone you say it in

[dense oasis]

ah yeah, okay. I still know almost nothing about formalities like this, lol

[cedar gate]

english speakers use sarcasm a lot to undermine authority figures in high school settings

[flat rune]

I never say things like 'sir'. I don't think I have ever said 'sir' or 'madam' in my life. I'm not traditionally formal, but I absolutely can be formal. I learned a different way to be formal. It's still in the words you use and structures of the sentences, but it's also in the way you present yourself physically and audibly. There are more ways to be polite and formal than saying 'sir' or 'madam'.

[cedar gate]

so if you roll your eyes or say it begrudgingly you might be in more trouble than by saying nothing

even if you say the right words

[dense oasis]

okay this i can imagine lol

[cedar gate]

im sure its the same for any language lol

[flat rune]

Yeah, the tone is very important, and the body language.

[cedar gate]

here in american south sir and maam are fairly common but they can also be faceitious facetious

[dense oasis]

I had to look up that adjective

the dictionary says it should be faceitous

[cedar gate]

lol i spelled it wrong

on accident

[dense oasis]

*facetious

I did too

Lmao

No matter how many books I read in english, a native will always, always find a word that i dont know yet

its frustrating, and very funny at the same time

[cedar gate]

do you know antidisestablishmentarianism

[flat rune]

When I'm in FormalMode™, I tend to speak more properly, with clearer enunciation, I use better grammar, I sometimes avoid slang, my body language is more presentable and open, etc. It's so difficult to describe this stuff, because I just 'do', I don't really think much about it. I learned all this at quite a young age. My mother was a bit of a fancypants, I guess.

It depends just how formal or polite I wish or need to be. Usually, I can get away with saying a lot of so-called impolite things, but I present myself in such a way that it's clear I mean no disrespect. I think, above all, it's just about being respectful. Remember, they say the spoken language alone makes up a very, very low percentage of our overall communication.

TBF, I think, these days, people are a bit more laid back. My approach probably wouldn't fly back in the day.

[cedar gate]

thats a famously long one we joke about in grade school

[flat rune]

Yep. And hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia.

[cedar gate]

i dont know that one

[flat rune]

The fear of long words.

[cedar gate]

oh lmao i have heard that that word is long but didn't recognize it

[dense oasis]

no, but i can figure this one out myself. So, an ideology that preaches we should destroy all establishments

Or the opposite

It preaches we should stop destroying them

Lmao

[cedar gate]

its the other way around yeah and looking it up its apparently specific to the church of england

[wanton moss]

At first glance I would assume that it refers to the fear of hippos

[flat rune]

Yeah, I'm not familiar with the meaning of antidisestablishmentarianism, but I'm familiar with the word itself.

I just know it has something to do with churches.

[cedar gate]

i didn't know the meaning either

[flat rune]

😆 Not bad, TBF.

[cedar gate]

its just that word you compete to be able to say fast and spell

to prove ur smart as a 3rd 4th or 5th grader

or maybe older i forget

[dense oasis]

I am old enough to know I am dumb

[flat rune]

I think it's an easy word to spell, because it uses pretty predictable patterns in each syllable.

[dense oasis]

thanks

lol

[flat rune]

You ain't dumb! Quit that smack-talk, young lady. *wags finger disapprovingly*

[dense oasis]

Socrates was old and claimed the way i do

[flat rune]

You're one of the many smart buggers I see here on the regular.

Well, they say the more you know, the more you know you don't know as much as you think. Or something to that effect.

In order words, he knew he didn't know much, because he know much, at least for his time.

[cedar gate]

Duning-Kruger effect?

[flat rune]

I wouldn't say it's that.

[cedar gate]

Yeah you're right i think

[flat rune]

That's when you think you know loads about something you actually don't, because you've more or less just got your foot through the door. You don't yet know enough to know what you don't know, I guess.

[dense oasis]

i think its not really that effect. Its just an awareness of being oblivious of many, many thing, being unaware of so many things we dont even know what we are unaware of

[wanton moss]

Do you happen to be an avid reader of George Orwell by any chance ? Your prose reminds me of him though I can’t quite put my finger as to why.

[dense oasis]

*things

[cedar gate]

Well, they say:
You are braver than you believe, stronger than you seem, smarter than you think and loved more than you know

[dense oasis]

I have his book. I have not read it. Thats the end of the story, thanks for your attention

[cedar gate]

thats one of my favorite quotes at least

[flat rune]

Prose? Awesome, I haven't written prose in years. 😆 But nah, I checked out 1964 or 1984, whatever the year was, but got distracted by other things. I've heard bits and pieces of it though, as it's commonly talked about by philosophers.

[cedar gate]

the second one, 1984 is right

[flat rune]

I think I got through the first chapter, actually. Audio book, on YouTube.

Ah, okidoke. Ta.

To anyone unfamiliar with it, 'ta' is like a brief 'thanks' commonly used in the UK.

[cedar gate]

I think orwell wrote it in 1948 and flipped the last two years numbers when he published it or something to make the dystopian future date seem more ominous or something

[wanton moss]

You should definitely dive into 1984, I haven’t finished the whole thing but I find the book to be gripping from the very first page !

[dense oasis]

in my native we say "ta" informally to mean "yeah"

[flat rune]

That would be awesome.

[cedar gate]

I don't totally remember if that's even true or if i imagined that in class bored

[flat rune]

Noted!

[dense oasis]

russians say "da", polish say "ta", lol

i bet other slavs say something similar too

[flat rune]

I know, I definitely need to. I did enjoy what I heard. He does a great job of painting the scene. It was pretty wild. I remember he was introducing New Asia, but I never got far enough into it.

[flat rune]

'tak' in Ukrainian.

IIRC. Been a whlie since I poked around the Ukrainian language. It was far too difficult for my pea brain.

[dense oasis]

Ah yeah, in polish we say "tak", too. But its one of many ways lmao

[cedar gate]

I found this on the wiki:
There has been a theory – doubted by Dorian Lynskey (author of a 2019 book about Nineteen Eighty-Four) – that 1984 was chosen simply as an inversion of the year 1948, the year in which it was being completed. Lynskey says the idea was "first suggested by Orwell's US publisher", and it was also mentioned by Christopher Hitchens in his introduction to the 2003 edition of Animal Farm and 1984, which also notes that the date was meant to give "an immediacy and urgency to the menace of totalitarian rule".[32] However, Lynskey does not believe the inversion theory:

This idea ... seems far too cute for such a serious book. ... Scholars have raised other possibilities. [His wife] Eileen wrote a poem for her old school's centenary called 'End of the Century: 1984.' G. K. Chesterton's 1904 political satire The Napoleon of Notting Hill, which mocks the art of prophecy, opens in 1984. The year is also a significant date in The Iron Heel. But all of these connections are exposed as no more than coincidences by the early drafts of the novel ... First he wrote 1980, then 1982, and only later 1984. The most fateful date in literature was a late amendment."[33]

sorry for the block of text

couldn't think of a way to summarize/shorten it

[flat rune]

Sounds plausible!

[cedar gate]

so apparently its not true he inverted it most likely

but possible

[wanton moss]

It is indeed verbose (I’m kidding)

[flat rune]

You're quite right, though. It is verbose.

But I found it interesting.

[dense oasis]

It terrifies me that ukrainian might soon be a thing of the past. I hear it everyday now, despite living right next to the germany, so pretty far from the ukrainian border, and still, so many refugees.

[wanton moss]

So do I !

[flat rune]

Here's hoping that's not the case, but should we avoid topics like that in this channel? I'd hate to scare off people with English questions. 😆

[dense oasis]

Yeah i guess we should

[flat rune]

Okidoke.

Oh, BTW... we don't usually say things like 'the Germany'. It's only for places like 'the USA' that we add in the article. I think it has something to do with it being a plural.

[dense oasis]

ah, well, okay

thanks

[cedar gate]

yeah its because its already the united states of america so it has a the in front already

maybe plural is more correct though

cause i think the maldives is a thing a posh person might say

[flat rune]

I'm pretty sure it's the plural thing, but I'm not completely against your idea there. I'd not thought of that before.

I've not heard of 'maldives'. Is it a place?

Then again, it's in the plural, so 'the' seems right.

[cloud echo]

Its like a surf place in Indonesia maybe...

[cedar gate]

The netherlands or the philipines also sounds right

[flat rune]

Yep.

[wanton moss]

I’m not an expert on the subject but I think it’s an island perhaps or an archipelago

[cloud echo]

what are we talking about

[cloud echo]

probably

[flat rune]

Adding 'the' before certain place names.

Beyond that, nowt much.

[cloud echo]

oh

[cedar gate]

Honduras is plural though i think and the Honduras sounds wrong (probably because it's plural in spanish but doesn't sound plural in english)

At least I think it's plural looking at the wiki for it

[flat rune]

Yeah, I suspect it's the bit in the parentheses.

[dense oasis]

This is a country in south asia. South asia means "close to india", for people who dont visualize maps automatically

Absolutely NOT close to indonesia

[flat rune]

Yeah, my geography skills are almost non-existent.

[cedar gate]

same

[dense oasis]

i am pretty keen on asian geography tbh, but mostly southeast asia and east asia. I even created some flashcards to remember all the capitals and flags and stuff, lol

[cloud echo]

I think its for countries that are plural but plural doesn't necessarily mean and S on the end

[wanton moss]

I like how you added this extra information between quotation marks such as to insinuate that we’re terrible at geography

🥸

[flat rune]

I can sort of visualize America, I'm OK with the UK, and some other areas of Europe aren't too bad.

[cloud echo]

i can visualise meso/south america, europe and australia

[dense oasis]

i mean, it is supposed to help people, not scream "youre stupid" lol

[flat rune]

I imagine it was more to simplify, and perhaps quoted because it's something someone typically says or might say.

[cedar gate]

i can visualize or point on maps ok ish for america, south america, and europe but if i had to actually draw anything it wouldn't be recognizable (even if i had great drawing skills tbh)

[wanton moss]

Ik ik, it was just a farce

A jest if you may

[flat rune]

Sometimes quotes are used for emphasis, casually. I'm not sure everyone knows how to italicise text on Discord. Fun fact: *like this*

[flat rune]

Oh, OK. Understood.

[wanton moss]

Will or may ?

[flat rune]

'will' would be best, I'd say.

The phrase is usually 'if you will'.

[dense oasis]

Its exactly the opposite way for me. I can visualize asia pretty nicely, especially east and southeast, so vietnam, china, myanmar, thailand, taiwan, everything east. But middle east, europe, america, everything... I am so bad at this. I live in europe and i have no idea about it, but i can visualize far lands lmao

[wanton moss]

I see, thanks 🙏

[cloud echo]

replied to wrong message?

[dense oasis]

Yesss

[flat rune]

That's still pretty cool. You can visualize areas of the map that don't exist in my brain. Visually, just to clarify.

[cloud echo]

did anyone listen to agora debates

is it good is it worth joinning

[flat rune]

I've not heard of those before.

Oh, the thing on this server.

I don't join voice channels.

[cloud echo]

generally me neither

[dense oasis]

I recently found out what dublin is. I mean, yeah, thats how bad i am at europe lmao

[cloud echo]

plus because of timezones, all the events are at midnight for me

[flat rune]

Dublin? Isn't that one of those fancy American meals? The ones with the potato.

[cloud echo]

@flat rune what is OSM in your username

[wanton moss]

I’ve joined some and it gets a little heated out there if you’re referring to those controversial debates

[flat rune]

Only Slightly Mad. 😄

[cloud echo]

[wanton moss]

It’s a city I believe

[cedar gate]

does the acronym change with your anger levels

[flat rune]

Yep. Don't worry, I'm old, but I'm not that old. 😛

[cedar gate]

like a power up

[cloud echo]

i didn't know that kentucky was a place until the super bowl this year

[wanton moss]

How old are you if you don’t mind me asking ?

[cloud echo]

i thought it was just a way they fried the chicken

[flat rune]

😆 Nah. I used 'mad' as in 'crazy' or 'unhinged'. It's an exaggeration meant to convey that I'm a little odd or wild.

[flat rune]

Late 30s.

[wanton moss]

Blimey

[cedar gate]

I'm the opposite basically, i'm not at all wild but i have bipolar

im quite mild actually

[flat rune]

Oh, OK. That must be fun, by which I mean, I appreciate that is usually entirely not-fun. A good friend of mine is bipolar and has a right nightmare with it.

Anyway, I know I said earlier that not all Brits drink tea, but... I'm craving more tea. 😛 Be right back.

[cedar gate]

thankfully im pretty stable now but it has cost me some money since the united states healthcare system is oh so generous

[wanton moss]

Sorry that might come off as a little ageist but I don’t encounter much adults who use discord or maybe I’m just out of touch with reality

[cedar gate]

I'm 26 years young myself

[wanton moss]

I’m soon to be 18

Everybody’s old here

Damn

[dense oasis]

i am 19

[haughty leaf]

it's so amazing to encounter people who are watching these cartoons, I though I was the only one to watch this kind of cartoons😅

[cloud echo]

?topic

[hazy herald]

Topic

What’s something you really resent paying for?

The English Hub - Source: yagpdb topic command + other sources

[wanton moss]

Well there’s just you and I then who don’t fall under the adult umbrella spectrum or whatever it may be

[dense oasis]

well, whatever, lmao. Age is just an age. Be yourself

[wanton moss]

Indeed ur right

[dense oasis]

holy god, i cant imagine. Here we have a free one, but the appointments are something you wait for pretty long. So, not efficient. In private hospitals/centres, you pay around 50 USD for one hour with a psychiatrist

[flat rune]

A bit, but it's OK. I'm used to it. I usually get that sort of reaction, as though I'm already on my death bed. 😆

[round jungle]

I'm way behind and only skimming, lol, so maybe it's already been said, but generally the countries with "the" are the ones where the name is a label/description rather than just a name, and "the" is part of the description. It can be plural, but not necessarily

"The USA" because it's "The United States of America"
"The UK" because it's "The United Kingdom" (not plural 😉)

But not "The Germany" or "The Poland" or whatever because "Germany" and "Poland" are just names, not descriptions that use a "the"

[wanton moss]

Not the death bed ☠️

[dense oasis]

"The Poland" sounds good. I mean, yeah, okay, it does not. But the official name of Poland is "The Republic of Poland"

[cedar gate]

why did i think the united kingdom was plural earlier🤦

[flat rune]

Oh, I got you. That's interesting. Thanks for explaining! I got caught out by the plural trap.

[flat rune]

I have no idea, but clearly it escaped my mind as well. 😆

[round jungle]

True 😄 But then "the" is for "Republic", not "Poland". So if it's shortened to just "Poland", then you can't keep the article

[flat rune]

My bed. It was an absolute mistake. I tried to save money, but ended up wasting it. Being the stubborn sod I am, I'm still using it, with slats from my old bed. Damn thing.

[dense oasis]

ah okay. umm actually lemme ask, why polish? like, why? whats the reason for whatever interest you may have in it

[haughty leaf]

actually I don't have time to watch cartoons at the moment cause I have an important exam to pass this year so I have to focus on it, I said this cause once I begin a cartoon or even series I binge watch it and I get hooked on it, I even spend sleepless night to watch it completely. But I've been reading manhwa in english to learn new words.

[round jungle]

I've kinda just always loved Slavic languages. I was planning to learn Russian once I was satisfied enough with my German to try a new language, but then I started watching Studio Accantus on Youtube and fell in love with Polish instead 🙂

[dense oasis]

have you ever been to poland

irl of course, i dont count youtube vlogs or movies or whatever you mightve seen

[round jungle]

Not yet. I'd love to visit sometime, but I don't have the money at the moment unfortunately

[dense oasis]

i guess its about the flights, most of the time. The prices of them are pretty over the roof. Poland itself is a rather affordable country for somebody who lived in the US or in the UK

[flat rune]

Hey now. Have you seen Google Maps? I've been all over the world, and you can't tell me otherwise. I've even been to the moon!

[dense oasis]

well, according to the google maps, i have lived in London and walked down every street there. And I also rode a bike in front of fat british highschoolers

[flat rune]

Wow, you're well travelled! Very cultured.

[round jungle]

Yeah :( The price of stuff within Poland isn't too bad, but the travel costs to get there and back are out of my budget for now

[dense oasis]

yes, they wanted to eat me

[flat rune]

Bloody hell. Apparently I could get a flight to Poland for about £25, using something like Ryanair. Sounds sketchy. Something that cheap probably comes with a huge list of caveats.

[dense oasis]

the US has already pretty much gained its reputation for being insanely expensive, at least here in poland, thats the way we view it. Maybe americans earn more, but knowing the prices, its not so good and beautiful. I wouldnt like to live in the US lol. I would love to visit it, tho

[dense oasis]

noooo way

scam

[flat rune]

Yeah, that's my impression of the US as well. It's not even just an impression, it's what I'm told by Americans all the time.

[dense oasis]

ryanair suggests warsaw -> london is 60 GBP for me

makes sense but still too cheap

[flat rune]

Dang, that's crazy.

[round jungle]

If I had my choice of anywhere to live in the world, it wouldn't be here 🥲

[flat rune]

I'd live in Germany or a remote part of Scotland.

[dense oasis]

id live in the UK

if i could just choose and be reborn

you get to have native proficiency in the language that pays the most in the corporate world and stuff, and the healthcare is pretty good

[flat rune]

I recognise how lucky I am to live in the UK. I benefit from a lot that other people don't. So, while I would like to live in Germany, I do appreciate how lucky I am.

The healthcare is amazing, considering it's entirely free. That comes from someone who almost died because of a doctor making a mistake during a strike.

[sacred frigate]

Where then

[flat rune]

Although I should point out that the NHS has suffered over the last few years.

But it's still good.

[sacred frigate]

Oh I like how you say dang instead of damn, you're an excellent teacher hehe

[flat rune]

My ex was American, so I picked up a lot of Americanisms from her.

Plus, I think I'm so used to speaking to Americans, at this point. They're everywhere. Schuyler knows.

[dense oasis]

mmm yeah germany is good, but for me, its not my kink i guess. British speak english, and i spent a lot of time learning english. Worth being chosen by me. I think there are like 2 types of polish migrants in the UK. First is they have little education, or little experience, or just badly paid profession, and they work in the UK, not earning very much, but earning ok enough. The second type is they are experienced in their field or have other traits that are valued, these ones will usually just become british lmao, its better for them to forsake their old polish life, unless theyve got family here or something

[sacred frigate]

What does posse mean?

?def posse

[hazy herald]

Word: posse

Definition (noun): a temporary police force

Definition requested by mus_simahin

[round jungle]

I'd love to try living in Germany. Realistically that's not likely to happen any time soon, but it's a distant goal. If not there, then maybe the UK or Canada

Poland would be more affordable and the people I know are really nice, but from what I hear about the political situation, maybe not the best choice currently :/

[sacred frigate]

You don't like your USA county?

[flat rune]

You should know that there is a certain xenophobic attitude among some people over here. It's surprisingly common. The view is "they're taking our jobs and homes". Because, as I'm told, foreigners who come to England get it all, while natives are screwed. I'm far from convinced this is the case, but many are. So, if you come to England, you may get some hate from hateful people. I'd like to think that attitude has changed and it's not as bad as it was when I was younger, but I doubt it. Maybe the Ukrain situation has improved things, in that regard.

[dense oasis]

yes, i have heard this

and yeah it could be the case, of course, i imagine this. Will see tho

[flat rune]

I for one welcome you to the UK.

I'm not at all xenophobic. I like the variety we have over here.

[sacred frigate]

You suggest London?

[round jungle]

Not really. It could be much worse, but we have a lot of catching up to do as a supposed first world country

I don't really want to go deep into that kind of topic here, though 😅

[flat rune]

Not at all. Lots of crime, stupid drivers, and it's prohibitively expensive.

[dense oasis]

This depends on who you ask. For me, I am genuinely scared poland is gonna be attacked by russia. This is not likely to happen this year, or next year, or even the next next year, or even after four years, but it may eventually happen. So, I myself worry about this a lot. And polish politics are not very organized, thats rather a mess, a lot to be fixed. I would move here or live here for some time, but i would not live here for my entire life as I do now

[flat rune]

I suppose it depends whereabouts you live in London, but the whole place is something I prefer to avoid, unless I need to go to an airport or something.

[flat rune]

Alter, es wäre ja cool, wenn du in Deutschland leben könntest. Es ist für mich auch nicht möglich oder praktisch.

[dense oasis]

so funny that i understood everything

despite sucking at german

[flat rune]

I know, I'm naughty for not typing English. But I miss German, now. 😆

[flat rune]

Really? Awesome. What did I say? Without cheating. 😛

[dense oasis]

well, ok, then: it is indeed cool, when you can live in germany. for me, it is not possible, and neither is it practical

maybe conditional tho

"if you could"

and "it would be cool"

[flat rune]

Very close.

Dude, it would (odd to translate... like affirming or saying 'indeed') be cool, if you could live in Germany. It's also not possible or practical for me.

[dense oasis]

ah yeah conditional indeed

yeah this makes sense

amazing

ware and konntest, sorry for making your eyes burn, made me realize that it could be the conditional

[flat rune]

TBF, I said 'alter' and 'ja' in a colloquial way. I don't blame you for missing that.

[flat rune]

I used the subjunctive (Konjunktiv) there, because of course I did. 😛

[round jungle]

Yeah, I've been worrying about that, too ... Even though I'm way over here and wouldn't be directly affected. That, and idk what it's like actually living there, but I've heard that Poland is one of the least tolerant countries in the EU. And as someone who's both LGBT+ and nonbinary, well ... :')

[dense oasis]

although if you come then visit krakow, wroclaw (i was born in wroclaw btw, but not raised), and you also gotta see everything every polish ever tells you to. Great, now do that

[flat rune]

The subjunctive is so damn confusing in German. I'm not sure if that was Konjunktiv I or II. The confusion we had earlier over the subjunctive made me realise that the subjunctive in English is more complicated than I thought.

[round jungle]

Definitely on my list of places to go if/when I get over there

[dense oasis]

ah yeah, thats true, the stats do not lie here. polish people do not tolerate lgbt communty as widely as countries like the UK or Germany

i myself find it, hm, new. very new to me, i tolerate this, because i tolerate almost everything that doesnt harm people directly, but yeah it is new to me

[dense oasis]

the good part about poland is crimes. actually, the lack of crimes, cuz the only crimes here are stupid drunk people who do stupid drunk people talk and stupid drunk people threatening and falling down on the concrete. organized crime does not exist in poland

[flat rune]

I'm sick of switching keyboard layouts manually each time. (gotta type setxkbmap de and setxkbmap gb into a terminal) so I'm gonna just write a damn tool that'll switch it with a keyboard shortcut! Yay automation. Maybe it'll encourage me to use German more often.

[dense oasis]

i have not yet learned how to switch keyboard layouts on linux

[flat rune]

You have now.

[round jungle]

Well that's a plus at least 😄

I'm on my phone, so I don't have to switch layouts for German lol. But I have to switch for Polish because the English keyboard doesn't let you do ą for some reason

[dense oasis]

are you able to produce that sound

out of your american vocal cords

[round jungle]

Nope lol

[dense oasis]

ah yeah

[round jungle]

I'm really bad at pronunciation in general xD Even in English I have trouble sometimes

[dense oasis]

i also think there is one law in poland that is pretty damn useful and US doesnt have it. maybe two

first is laws regarding worker's rights, not sure if thats only rumours, but the US makes it pretty simple to fire an employee. well, here, youve got a notice period for this, and sometimes the employer might be obligated to give the worker some time to find a job, during that time the employer has to pay the worker almost normally, and also you can not fire people with no real, explicit, solid reason

if anything goes not the way it should, the employer fires with no reason, the employer abuses the employee, many people will sue the employer and sometimes win the fight in the court and be paid for their victory

[flat rune]

Done.

So much easier!

[dense oasis]

lmao

Linux technician

everyday at the job

[flat rune]

Now I just type Mod4 (AKA: Win) + L and I toggle between 'de' and 'gb'.

😄

Been a while since I've written something, TBH. A very, very long time. Granted, it was very simple.

[wanton moss]

That’s what I’ve heard as well from scrolling on social media. Same in France, we have strong laws regarding worker’s contract to not be violated. And in case the employee might get fired for no apparent reason they may just resorting to suing their employer.

[dense oasis]

yeaaah, it is complex in practice, but it sometimes works, and sometimes the employer will sh#t themself just by seeing a letter from the lawyer lmao

[wanton moss]

Indeed because they know damn well that they employee is in every right of taking this whole situation to court

But I’m astonished though because it seems to be quite the opposite in the USA

It’s pretty sad considering those who just want to make an honest living

[flat rune]

OMG, this is absolut das Beste der ganzen Welt! Jetzt kann ich einfach beide Layouts verwenden, with the press of a button. Ich bin viel zu glücklich about this.

OK, I'm over it. 😆

[dense oasis]

germenglish

[flat rune]

I prefer Denglisch.

[dense oasis]

i have mastered the art of sprechen Sie english. now every german in my vicinity knows this sentence worse than me, and i am starting to think i should get a PhD, or several dozen of them, for this

[flat rune]

Slight downside. I may forget which layout I'm in. Might need something to show me the current layout. Hmm.

[flat rune]

Kennen Sie vielleicht etwas Englisch?

You could learn this, to sound less generic. 😛

[round jungle]

I'm actually not entirely sure about worker's laws here, but that's my understanding, too. That it's pretty easy to fire someone :/

I'm embarrassingly poorly versed in law

[dense oasis]

also polish tenant rights are pretty impressive, very beneficial for the tenants. It is difficult to kick somebody out of the apartment they rent

sometimes the landlords are scared to lease something for the tenants to rent, because what if the tenant is a bad person? well, then the landlord will have a problem, cuz the laws respect the tenant more

[wanton moss]

A lease is a contract between a tenant and a landlord right ?

[dense oasis]

yeah

here i intended to use it as a verb

so, to lease is to provide something for somebody, they can use this if they pay the fee for this, and they can use this only for the specified time

well, thats my understanding

[round jungle]

That sounds really nice

For the tenant at least

[wanton moss]

Alright, I thought it was exclusively a noun. It’s good to know.

[flat rune]

That sounds pretty sketchy, but at least it protects the tenants.

[dense oasis]

landlords usually complain about this

cuz they have a lot of responsibility on themselves, and the laws do not make this easier for them. If the tenant is some alcoholic, who destroys the apartment, then the tenant should pay for this (its their fault), but in reality if they occupy the flat, then what if they cant be kicked out

like it can be a horror for the landlord to deal with some stubborn people lol

[round jungle]

Yeah, I can understand that side. Imo the best policy should be something in the middle. Where landlords can't just kick someone out for no good reason, but also they aren't forced to put up with an especially bad tenant

[dense oasis]

of course, but its hard to somehow... find that ground. But thats like the practical side of the things, very basic and important laws, crucial for everyone. When it comes to more... niche laws? maybe more like minority-related laws, so lgbt and foreigners, then id say poland has a long way to go. There are not many foreigners living here, almost all inhabitants are polish, the same ethnicity. I dislike this tbh, practically this is very, very boring

everyone just looks the same, and has the same accent here. Polish just look like each other, speak like each other, do not have dialects (excluding one i guess), and all that. Some polish are excited to interact with foreignets lol, due to that of course, others are not so friendly

I think OSM has once mentioned something like a hospital, in which he saw multiple ethnicities/races, but all these people spoke english. Thats insane for me to imagine, its surreal for polish reality

[round jungle]

That's the one thing I love about where I am. In the US, how tolerant people and laws are of foreigners and identities is very dependent on which part of the country you're in, and I've been extremely fortunate to live in one of the most liberal states (New Jersey). It's not perfect, of course, but on average this is a very diverse and accepting part of the country

[flat rune]

Do you say wear thin—something is wearing thin in daily conversation?

[round jungle]

"To wear thin" means something is running out. It's usually used abstractly like "my patience is wearing thin", meaning "I'm losing my patience," "My patience is running out." You don't hear it all the time, but it's not unusual

[dense oasis]

ok thats better

what a beautiful expression to know

[dense oasis]

anyway, getting back to this, if you recall your everyday life in that city, shopping, hanging out, stuff, then is this really something you see immediately? Like you see a white person, a black person, and an asian every single day on the same street?

if you sensed some slight disbelief here then you sensed it well, lol

[flat rune]

Yep, when I was at the hospital for the op, there were all sorts of people from all sorts of places. It was awesome. Minus the whole being unwell thing. 😆

[flat rune]

So, you don't have black or Asian people who live in Poland or who were raised in Poland?

[dense oasis]

There are such people here, but theyre rare, like thats not common at all. Not sure about the percentages, but there is no way its any significant percent of the population, its like a tiny fraction

[round jungle]

Pretty much, yeah. My area is very mixed with people of different ethnicities and backgrounds. The majority of non-Caucasian people here are Latino/a/x, but there are plenty of Black people, Asian people, and other ethnicities, as well as white immigrants from other countries. Honestly, what would be unusual would be walking down the street and not seeing a single person who isn't white

I myself am half-Chinese, although my dad (Chinese immigrant) only speaks English with me, so sadly I only know a couple Chinese words

[dense oasis]

polish reaction to something like... "i am polish-chinese, my dad is chinese and my mother is polish" is usually "OH WOW WHAT THE, how did this even happen???"

[dense oasis]

ahhh okay okay

yeah thats just the opposite of the reality here

[round jungle]

😂 Here it's just "Oh, cool. So do you speak Chinese? ... No? ... Oh, okay. Cool, cool."

[dense oasis]

lmao

[flat rune]

When I was a kid, it was rare to see a black person.

[dense oasis]

I can recognize the meanings of some chinese characters, due to the fact i had already studied japanese before. But i suck. And i make chinese laugh at me, cuz i keep on guessing wrong, lol

[flat rune]

Weird but true.

Very rare.

[dense oasis]

Ah yeah, so, it mustve increased lately... well, in the latest 20 years

[flat rune]

TBF, I lived and still live in the boonies, compared to the cities in which you do find a lot of diversity. I have a feeling the diversity thing became more of a thing over the last 20-25 years. I wish it were more so, because I hated that feeling of strangeness, seeing someone different and having no idea how to feel or think about it. Remember, I was a dumb kid who lived in a sea of white and was ignorant to the world around him. Diversities offer opportunities to learn of different cultures and places outside of your little corner of the world. I'm glad the Internet helps with this, but there was no Internet back then.

[dense oasis]

Not sure about your appearance, and i dont pry into that of course, but if you have some chinese features on your face, or asian body height, then if you come to Poland then yeah, you will be a rare specimen among us, lol

[flat rune]

Your openness amuses me, NGL.

[dense oasis]

lmao

My apologies

For any harm that ive caused

[flat rune]

I'm offended for Schuyler!

CANCEL BLACK CAT.

[dense oasis]

this is how much of an ungrateful pole i am

Not even bringing any electricity

[flat rune]

That's a mockery of the cancel culture and people being offended for someone else. Just in case my weird humor is misunderstood. 😛

[round jungle]

lol well, I don't look obviously Asian, so maybe not 😆 Most people say I just look white. But my last name is Chinese, so that would give it away

[flat rune]

At least dogs can pee up against you.

Again, weird humor.

[dense oasis]

holy sh lmao

[flat rune]

https://tenor.com/view/fine-dancing-pole-dance-antanasj-cestovas-controlieriai-gif-21079421

[round jungle]

And my middle name, although I don't use it much lol

[frigid jackal]

p3verse_w3b has been timed out
Reason: Posting Discord Server Invites

p3verse_w3b | 926420168786182164

[flat rune]

Oooo, someone was naughty.

[haughty leaf]

is it correct to say "the band is said to be planning to go on a world tour next year"?

[flat rune]

Yep.

Sorry for interrupting but what's the difference between must and have to?

[haughty leaf]

thanks!

[dense oasis]

ahh okay okay, well, yeah, it would immediately, everyone is the same here. People joke that asians look the same, but the truth is slavs look the same, lol

[flat rune]

They both convey a sense of obligation, but some might say 'must' conveys a stronger sense of obligation than 'have to'.

I suppose it depends on how it's said, but those are my initial thoughts.

[flat rune]

Thank you very much!

You're very welcome.

[flat rune]

I doubt any group of people look the same.

[dense oasis]

yeah, thats a good example of the passive voice. You can notice many phrases like "be said to something", "be deemed to something", "be considered to something", "be believed to something"

[flat rune]

Maybe some similar or common features, but still, not the same. Unless y'all are twins x [population].

[haughty leaf]

do we put the "not " before the verb or after; we would say "I'd rather not prefer to cancel the meeting" or " i'd rather prefer not to cancel the meeting"?

[flat rune]

You're mixing a bit there.

I'd rather not do thing.

I'd prefer not to do thing.

There's no need to mix 'prefer' with 'rather', as they both convey the same thing: preference

Unless you're saying something like:

I'd rather not go there, because I'd prefer to go here.

But, that might sound a bit contrived.

[dense oasis]

"id rather prefer"
or
"id rather prefer"

you cant use both at the same time

[flat rune]

What's the difference between which and that?

That line limit is really sodding stupid. This is the best place for long helpful posts. 🙄

[flat rune]

In the context I assume you mean, 'that' is a relative pronoun and 'which' is a ... can't remember the name, but it introduces a subordinate clause.

This is the car that I drive.

This is the car, which I drive.

Notice the way they're written.

Oh, I see. Thank you very much again!

Hopefully I have that right. Been a little while since I've looked into 'that' vs 'which'.

[haughty leaf]

hmmm I see so they have the same function?

[flat rune]

More or less.

I think 'rather' emphasizes more the contrast between one thing over another.

But that might just be my interpretation.

[dense oasis]

the differences in meaning are pretty much non-existent tbh, but look at this:

The bag, which I saw at the mall last night, was really beautiful.

The bag that I saw at the mall last night was really beautiful.

notice that we can go even further and shorten this even more:
"The bag I saw... "
thats used in speech really often

[flat rune]

Come to think of it, IIRC, 'that', in this context, also introduces a new clause.

Yeah, 'which' is great for additional information, like an interrupter.

[haughty leaf]

just like in this example "I'd rather call than canceling the meeting"? ( idk if the sentence is correct grammatically")

[dense oasis]

*than cancel
now it is

[flat rune]

Sounds right to me, but I'd probaly add a comma before 'than'. That might just be my insistence on commas, though. 😆

[flat rune]

Oh yeah, that too!

[flat rune]

Ignore the comma bit, actually. I didn't realise what you've done there.

It's a good sentence, except what Black Cat pointed out.

[haughty leaf]

hmm that sounds more correct, idk why i always add " -ing " to a verb after "than"😅

[flat rune]

You've combined 'call than cancel', which I think is now a phrase acting as a thing the speaker would prefer. I was thinking of 'than' as introducing a new clause. I might have the wrong idea. It's late over here and I'm ill. Brain = mush.

[dense oasis]

brian

[flat rune]

That's how mush it is.

[dense oasis]

brian stopped braining, error at line 342

[flat rune]

Syntax error.

Please mash keyboard, then try again.

[dense oasis]

This might not always be so bad.
For example:
"I like running more than swimming"

[flat rune]

Yeah, it's great there. But those work because of course the verbs are masquerading as nouns.

[dense oasis]

yeah

[flat rune]

I'm blanking on the name.

G......something.

Gnarly nouns?

[dense oasis]

Gerund

[flat rune]

That's the one. Close enough. 😛

[dense oasis]

i suppose

[haughty leaf]

hmmm ok i'll keep that in mind, thanks a lot

can I ask on more question? 😅 (sorry I keep bothering you guys)

[dense oasis]

please dk

do

[flat rune]

"Neither the students nor the teacher was aware of the change in schedule."
(or)
"Neither the teacher nor the students were aware of the change in schedule."

[haughty leaf]

here i need to make a sentence with "idea" to convey the same idea as in the 1st sentence but idk how to make it

[dense oasis]

it would be a good idea to pay a visit to the museum

[flat rune]

I can't speak for everyone, but it's no bother! Asking English questions is sort of the purpose of this channel. 😛

[flat rune]

I'd reword this, because neither 'was' nor 'were' agree with both 'students' (plural) and 'teacher' (singular). Therefore:

Neither the students were nor the teacher was aware of the change in schedule.

It's a little clunky, granted.

[haughty leaf]

woaaa thank you so much, you resolve it within 1 minute whereas me, I was blocked on it for more than 5min😅

[flat rune]

Oh, I see. Thank you 🫶

[dense oasis]

i think it took around 15 seconds for me

but this doesnt matter

[flat rune]

I'd mess about with the teacher.

Joan thought it would be the ultimate of all ideas in the whole world, perhaps even the universe, to simply consider it best that she embraces an opportunity to pay a wonderful and unexpected, yet somehow miraculous, visit to the museum.

Actually, don't do that. 😆

[dense oasis]

This is how my examiners at language certificates expect me to answer during the oral exam

[flat rune]

Awesome.

[dense oasis]

I would be given "C2 - Mentally unstable"

If i answered like that out of the blue

[flat rune]

I can't decide if you're saying I'm mentally unstable or not. *laughs in psychopath*

[haughty leaf]

Oooo woa you've done an amazing work but unfortunately i'm allow to use between 2 to 5 words😅

[dense oasis]

lmao

[flat rune]

Thanks and darn! Worth a try. 😛

[dense oasis]

OSM you are overqualified

for the tests

[flat rune]

Not if they were in German.

Then I'd be screwed.

[dense oasis]

But these can really be messy, like there is always some way of making them confusing, just some way of playing with the words and boom points are lost

[flat rune]

Yeah, for example, my sentence was far too long.

I did split it up with two interrupters, which helps the pacing a bit, but it was still ultimately far too long.

It was sort of intentionally contrived, though.

[dense oasis]

It was more bloated than the belly of an average politician

[flat rune]

One especially comes to mind.

It was more bloated than the Linux kernel! Boom. Mic drop. Except 0.0001% of people here know what I mean.

[flat rune]

This sentence is quite bad

"Neither the teacher nor the students were aware of the change in schedule."

This works fine

[flat rune]

You've not addressed the point I made for why I reworded. You've also not told me why the sentence was bad.

I'm not against a different view, but I need more to go by.

The teacher were aware ...

This makes no sense, hence the reword.

Likewise:

The students was aware ...

Also makes no sense.

[flat rune]

I say it is bad because it is unnatural, meaning a native speaker would not express the idea in the way you did

"the teacher nor the students" - this is plural

[flat rune]

"Both the teacher and students were aware of the change in schedule" ?

I am a native speaker and would word it like that, although I would probably split it up more in spoken English.

[dense oasis]

but they are the native speaker and they expressed the idea the way they did

[flat rune]

I reused part of the sentence to save repetition, which is quite common.

[flat rune]

That is concerning

[flat rune]

I'm not sure that's helpful. Again, I'm not against a different view, but this isn't constructive.

I will try to explain it a bit simpler - "the teacher and students" is plural. Therefore we use "were". There is no need to complicate the sentence

I'm playing the guitar and singing along with it.

Notice how I reused "I'm" to save repetition? It's the same concept. Otherwise, I'd have to say something like:

I'm playing the guitar and I'm singing along with it.

It's redundant. We reuse information quite often, especially in written English.

[flat rune]

To remind you of your sentence

"Neither the students were nor the teacher was aware of the change in schedule."

[flat rune]

I see what you mean. However, it's not about the teacher and the students together, but each one individually, as I read it. Hence the 'neither' and the 'nor' combo. If it were this, then I'd agree:

The students and teacher are tired.

Because now it's about them collectively.

[flat rune]

You are incorrect here

I will give another example to help

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

"The general and his soldiers were taken by surprise"

We would not say "The general was and his soldiers were taken by surprise"

But I appreciate that you took the time to explain what you mean.

This is because "The general and his soldiers" are a plural concept

[flat rune]

Yes, we would. This is something I say and often have heard. I've even reused part of the sentence here, quite naturally.

[flat rune]

To be clear, I don't want the learners to create incorrect sentences which is why I corrected you

Is it something most people do in casual discourse? Almost certainly not.

It is not personal

[flat rune]

I disagree that this is a correction, but I appreciate that's your goal. I feel the same way.

[flat rune]

What do you mean?

A native would not structure a sentence the way you did originally, which is why I said it was "unnatural"

I'm not even sure what to say at this point. I am a native. I live in the UK, and have lived here all my life. I know very well what I'm saying. As I've explained, we often reuse parts of sentences to save repetition. I can't tell if you're genuinely feeling as you do or are simply trolling. Once again, I've reused part of the sentence just now. In any case, us debating this and getting nowhere is fruitless. So I'm disengaging from this discussion.

[static sorrel]

Why do you say "a native" when Hawk is a native?

[flat rune]

The sentence they gave was not a natural (native) sentence

[static sorrel]

I'm late, can you reply to the one you mean?

I'm not trying to discuss it again because I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable about these things lol

[flat rune]

"Neither the students were nor the teacher was aware of the change in schedule."

The unnecessary use of both were and was is unnatural

Instead of simply "Neither the teacher nor the students were aware of the change in schedule"

[static sorrel]

I agree

[static sorrel]

Yea, thats how I'd say it

[static sorrel]

@flat rune I agree with Hawk about this, it is clunky, yes, but it is correct. I've not heard it used much though

[cedar gate]

it's something I wouldn't give second thought if a friend said it like that irl, i'd just process it as a normal sentence, even if it seems a bit strangely constructed in the context of language learning/acquisition

[static sorrel]

i feel like commas would be useful though
"Neither the students were, nor the teacher was, aware of the change in schedule"
I'm not 100% sure though

[static sorrel]

I agree

[flat rune]

I was disatisfied with the disagreement. I wanted to check I wasn't missing something that wasn't revealed earlier. It seems there might've been. Even though I'm quite right that things are reused in English quite often, especially in written English, I may be missing a rule with 'neither' + 'nor':

It seems that the 'neither' and 'nor' conjunction has a rule that the closest subject to 'are' or 'is' says whether to use 'are' or 'is', which would explain Cat's insistence on using 'are'. I can't seem to confirm this, but it's as far as I've currently gotten. It screams entirely incorrect to me, but if it's correct, it's correct.

However, it seems this is also a rabbit hole. I'm finding a lot of disagreement about this online. I have a feeling many people before us have disagreed about this over many years. 😆

My recommendation is to simply check with your (real) teacher, per your target variation of English. Most likely, you'll want to go with what they say and adjust accordingly later on in life, provided you're given good reason to do so.

[cedar gate]

i've done worse in some of my writing before actually,

like using a slash to break that sentence up further i might write something like

Neither the students nor the teacher were/was aware of the change in schedule

i'm fairly certain that wouldn't be considered correct on an english paper in a lot of settings but ive certainly done it

[static sorrel]

There must be something on the Internet to help with your confusion and help you out surely

[flat rune]

Perhaps there's a stylistic side to this as well. Repetition is often frowned upon in writing, so you can see why I would opt to avoid it. My earlier example may have been a more creative solution, but I would argue it makes perfect sense regardless. This approach is something I hear from fellow native English speakers, but I completely agree that it's definitely not common. If anything, it's probably something I'd hear from the more nerdy type, like scientists. Most people opt for simpler grammar and don't care to avoid things like repetition. Understandably. In casual discourse, I am more relaxed in how I speak. That's my current thinking.

[static sorrel]

I agree with that

[cedar gate]

yeah repitition can be a stylistic choice that really comes out more in spoken voice or in larger bodies of text

[static sorrel]

I think that is the issue, that it is not commonly spoken or written

[cedar gate]

or the same with any stylistic things

[static sorrel]

repetition right there! 😂

[cedar gate]

one of my favorite prose works is the pit and the pendulum which has a lot of repitition

i haven't read it in a long time actually tho

[flat rune]

Yeah, you might be onto something here. People often moan about my use of English, pointing out how 'proper' or 'formal' it is. Right down to the fact that I simply use commas. Funnily enough, I've been told the same thing about my German. I think I naturally adopt more formal styles of language, for whatever reason. Since most people — especially these days — don't seem to care much about this stuff, I stand out and my English looks or sounds 'weird'.

Still, I think the "closest subject" thing is quite compelling.

[static sorrel]

I wish people still used the more proper and formal usage of English like they did a century ago

[flat rune]

Yeah, repetition can also be used in a positive way, such as to really hammer home a point. There are so many different ways of repeating things. I honestly had no idea how many different methods there are. 🫣

[flat rune]

I mostly second this, but I bet it got a bit clunky and/or overly verbose sometimes.

[errant kettle]

This is what I was thinking about, that repetition provides emphasis. Edited to add a comma, for Hawk

[cedar gate]

I like it when there's various styles permitted in a setting and people can kinda talk with their internal monologues, so that there's variety in how people come across. Like more formal and less formal types certainly have unique things they bring to the table

like chatrooms are pretty comfy as far as written goes in my opinion

I dislike formats where the posts linger for too long though like reddit or the platform formerly known as twitter

i prefer for the people i'm talking to to be responding in a more real-time way

[flat rune]

Yeah, I know what you mean.

Instant messaging is great.

[cedar gate]

yeah agreed

[flat rune]

So, I found some confirmation. Turns out the "closest subject" is the case.

It can sound wrong to me all I like, but apparently that's the rule. 😆

So, for anyone who cares, it should've been "are", rendering my alternative, however creative, unnecessary.

How I went all these years of my life without anyone pointing this bizarre rule out, is beyond me.

Not the first time, won't be the last.

[round jungle]

This is how I do it. I would say "Neither the teacher nor the students were aware ...", and if that doesn't work for whatever reason, then I'd completely reword the sentence to avoid it, like "Nobody was aware ..."

"Neither the students were, nor the teacher was aware ..." sounds ... not wrong, but very strange and unnatural to me

[flat rune]

The thing is, the first sentence works perfectly.

But ye I agree

[flat rune]

Despite how wrong it sounds to me, I do agree that it works perfectly, because I'm now aware of the rule I mentioned above.

I only wished you were able to voice all this, so it would've made things go smoothly, but it is what it is. Now I know, and now I can avoid recommending something incorrect to others. Despite your initial approach, I do appreciate that you pointed it out.

I'm not sure why it sounds wrong to you - if I saw "Neither the students were, nor the teacher was aware ..." I would simply assume that whoever wrote it was not a native speaker

[flat rune]

All my life, I have understood these as individual things that must agree with the verb. To me, it was right. Nobody pointed it out as being wrong, thus I never corrected it. Here we are today, it feels wrong to me.

[errant kettle]

Curious, I would just think one was trying to emphasize that “nobody knew about the change in schedule” not even the teacher

[flat rune]

I suppose you could see it as adding emphasis to each subject, but I do agree that it sounds a bit weird, given the rule.

[cedar gate]

"Neither the students nor the teacher was aware" does sound wrong to me tbh

I don't know why but it sounds strange

[flat rune]

Perhaps because, like me, you feel the verb must agree with both subjects.

[errant kettle]

I like this you don’t know, till you know attitude!!

[flat rune]

yes, because "the students nor the teacher" is plural so should be followed by were

[static sorrel]

But even that would sound strange and seem wrong

[flat rune]

"Neither the students nor the teacher were aware" does not sound strange or wrong

[static sorrel]

Okay nvm I had to re say it a few times

[flat rune]

According to this rule, it should be 'is', because 'teacher' is closest to the verb.

[errant kettle]

In the US, I feel like most people avoid using neither/nor because most people don’t feel confident in using it correctly. I would probably take the path of least resistance and just reword the sentence completely

[flat rune]

That is not a rule

[cedar gate]

In the sentence,

He and I _______ going to the pool,
we would say ||are||?
so it's not closest to the verb in that case, right?

[flat rune]

https://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

Rule #3.

[flat rune]

Eg "Neither **the soldiers nor their general ** were prepared for what awaited them in the coming days"

[static sorrel]

Yeah, I agree

[cedar gate]

ah it's different for and

strange

[static sorrel]

Wdym?

[flat rune]

Even though "general" (singular) is closer to the verb we still use were, not was

To me, that doesn't make sense, unless you're using 'and'. It's plural not because the whole phrase is plural, but because of this rule stating that the closest subject decides the verb form. According to this rule.

[cedar gate]

Compound Subjects
Compound subjects joined by and need a plural verb.

Correct: Healthy diet and regular exercise are a necessity for a longer, happier life.
When the compound subject is joined by or, nor, neither... nor, either... or and one part of the compound subject is singular and the other part is plural, the verb needs to agree with the part closest to it.

Incorrect: Neither students nor their teacher are participating in this play.
Correct: Neither students nor their teacher is participating in this play.

That's what i found online so apparently it's specific compound subjects that use the closest one

[flat rune]

Yeah, that's the rule I'm referring to and linked.

[cedar gate]

but i definately use the plural usually personally

[static sorrel]

How is "Neither students nor their teacher are participating in this play" incorrect? That's how I'd say it 😤

[flat rune]

It's possible that many just forgo the rule and always use the plural, which might explain why Cat feels it must be plural here.

[flat rune]

Refer to the above pasted text by Nirvanny and/or the link I posted.

To clarify, I still feel as though this rule is absurd, even if it's correct. I can feel one way and still accept it as correct. 😛 Language evolves, so I can only hope that this rule goes bye-bye, such that the verb must agree with both subjects. One can dream!

[static sorrel]

Hear hear!

I hope it was an article written by a native speaker and not someone who has learnt English

[flat rune]

I'd rather not be a prescriptivist, even if I seem to naturally fall into that category. I blame my old teachers. They were prescriptivists through and through. 🙄

[flat rune]

Good point. But, it does coincide with the source Nirvanny found. Not that it means much, but ChatGPT said the same thing. That said, even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day.

[static sorrel]

Why have I never come across this before? That's acutely annoying as it feels what I've learnt isn't correct even though it still is correct

[flat rune]

Welcome to my world!

I genuinely don't think primary or secondary teachers bother to teach this properly, or at least not back in the day. IDK how old you are, but I'm in my late 30s. Not entirely stuck in my ways, thankfully. I try to be open to a new view, provided I'm given sufficient justification for it.

[cedar gate]

I feel like descriptivism is correct but at the same time if there's too much deviation from the rules I have come to know then it's unpleasant/discordant

[flat rune]

And can lead to confusion, such as via ambiguity. Not exactly the goal of language, unless maybe for comedy. 😛

[static sorrel]

By the way, if you want to make your typing and writing MORE formal and proper, get rid of the ' in words

[cedar gate]

I hated how english teachers would make you take contractions out of essays when i was growing up

[static sorrel]

I'm 20, they certainly didn't when I was in Primary school or Secondary school

[cedar gate]

like everyone says can't and don't yet somehow it's not allowed in an essay

[flat rune]

I might've agreed, back in the day, but these days, contractions are so commonplace that I have no issue using them. If I were typing academically or something, then maybe I would, if strictly required. Otherwise, I'm of the opinion that contractions are completely fine.

[static sorrel]

That makes sense

[flat rune]

This is my natural typing style. I'm not trying to type formally.

Traditionally, it's probably a mixture of formal and informal.

Which is more or less how I am in person, so I'm OK with that. 😛

[static sorrel]

You seem like that type of person who switches.

[flat rune]

The way I type does start to change depending on my mood and it definitely depends on whom I'm talking to. If I'm talking to my best bud of over a decade, my English is often sloppier than your average sewer sludge, for example.

I do make even more of an effort here, given the nature of the server.

[static sorrel]

I'm the same however for some reason, I cannot speak formally in a meeting or formal setting, it makes me feel cringe if I do. When typing on the otherhand, (if I have been watching Downton Abbey 😆😆) I will switch to formal and not have any issue with it.

[static sorrel]

And what a great job you do of it Sir!.

[flat rune]

I was explaining here earlier today that I'm probably not traditionally formal. I don't say things like "yes, sir", although I do have the usual manners (e.g., please and thankyous). As I've observed, there's a lot more to formality, politeness, and respect than simply using certain words. I focus more on what they say is the more important parts of communication, like body language and tone.

It's not intentional, it's just how I am. I picked that up as a kid, I think. My mother was a bit eccentric.

[static sorrel]

You were lucky in that regard. I was never taught the usage of body language or speech in any setting, only that I ought to use it more for jobs and meeting more senior people.

[flat rune]

I think I picked a lot of it up indirectly. My mother didn't, for example, sit me down and tell me all about my body language. 😆

[static sorrel]

Interesting

[cedar gate]

I also picked up a lot indirectly for formal and casual speech and behaviors, though some of that was because of my disposition being more alert type and being more of an internalizer I suppose

[flat rune]

Yeah, I think I'm the same.

OK, it's super late here and I need to sleep. Thanks for the awesome discussion. Good day/afternoon/evening/night/whenever, y'all. 👋

[static sorrel]

Goodnight Hawk! Have a good sleep 🙂

[cedar gate]

goodnight Hawk

[languid citrus]

Hello from Australia.

[flat rune]

has anyone here taken an actual listening test proficiency test?

[quartz cloud]

hallo!
under false pretences - pretending to be something that you are not
under pretence of - using as a false reason or explanation

Is that always correct? I do not have the latter idiom in my dictionary.

[supple holly]

Under/on the pretence of (you need the here)
And yes it is a correct idiom. I guess dictionaries just consider it something else. Like just a phrase instead of an idiom

The other one is an idiom and is also correct

Both are the same, just slightly different ways to express it. The one above sounds a bit more harsh (to me at least)

[short coyote]

why is english so hard t.t

[supple holly]

Depends on what you use it for. And also it takes time to see real progress

You will be fluent one day little Jack Frost

If you need help then do ask

[haughty leaf]

hello, can anyone tell me when I should use "of" and "for" 'cause I'm a little bit confused when it comes to using these 2 words in a sentence? thank you

[errant kettle]

In very general terms,”Of” is used to demonstrate possession. “For” is used to describe the purpose of something. “I am going to lunch with a friend of mine, these flowers are for her.”

[supple holly]

In other cases, it depends on the word/idiom/phrasal verb you're using. Which means you'll have to know beforehand or memorize which words go with which, because there's not any specific rule when it comes to idioms or phrasal verbs

[haughty leaf]

hmmm I see 'cause actually I wrote this sentence in an essay "It's a way to make them more responsible of their act." and they corrected me, they replaced "of" by " for"

[haughty leaf]

could you give me a simple example so that I can clearly see what you're referring to, please?

[supple holly]

"Responsible for" is a fixed phrase yeah. It wouldn't work with other prepositions

[supple holly]

Hmmm how about:
Speak of = the same meaning as "speak about"
Speak for = representing someone else and speaking for them

Both have totally different definitions, but both are also correct usages

[haughty leaf]

oo ok I wasn't aware of that fact, thank you!

[haughty leaf]

hmmm I see, that makes sense, thank you for your help!

[dense pulsar]

I went on a safari to see the great _______ in Africa.
(wildlife/predators)

i put I went on a safari to see the great wildlife in Africa.

[errant kettle]

While both potentially work, and I don’t see anything technically wrong with either sentence. I think predators is the best fit here. I am not certain I have a great explanation for this except that the adjective great seems more likely to proceed predators than wildlife. If I were to refer to wildlife I might use an adjective like “diverse”.

[flat rune]

Hello,can someone please tell me which one is correct: "Get that off of the counter" or "Get that off the counter",because I get confused when and where "of" is ok to pair with "off" in that context

[flat rune]

Both work

So both are correct...

[flat rune]

Thanks 😊

[flat rune]

My stance is seemingly a somewhat common one: the 'of' is entirely redundant here. Personally, I never include it and it sounds strange to me when I hear 'off of' in this sort of sentence. However, it is correct, according to this stuff I'm seeing online, and apparently there's a long history of its use in English. It might be more common in American English.

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/619/how-can-i-explain-to-people-that-the-phrase-off-of-is-grammatically-incorrect

Some interesting posts here about this 'off of' thing.

You'll no doubt find many other discussions online about this.

Despite my stance on it, I do tend to casually say 'offa', because it's something also commonly found in Scottish accents. If I were to pronounce the words clearly, as 'off of', instead of 'offa', then it would feel weird to me. That's just a quirk of my English and Scottish influence, though. In written English, I wouldn't ordinarily type or write 'off of'. For whatever that's worth.

I came across a good question just now:

Why do you take things out of boxes, and not just out boxes?

It's a good point. It certainly has me reassessing my stance. 😆 I'd not thought about it like that.

[supple holly]

Interesting topic

[flat rune]

It is a tongue twister for me because I don't speak English that well and I heard it both ways. Thanks for the info!

[flat rune]

In this context the "of " seems more needed, my opinion

[wanton moss]

Can syllabus and curriculum be used interchangeably ?

Matter of fact, is there a difference between these two terms ?

[flat rune]

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/syllabus

If you look at that, then search for the other word, there seems to be a subtle difference in meaning. I don't think they can be used interchangeably, but I'm not certain. I imagine people would know what you mean, were you to you use either word. Unless than subtle difference were important in a given moment.

Hopefully someone more familiar with these words can be of better help.

[wanton moss]

In what context would you personally use the word « syllabus » ?

[flat rune]

Well, I vaguely remember people using either word back at school, but that was a very long time ago. They were referring to the classes and things we'd learn. An educational programme, I guess you could say.

So, in that context.

But I don't really use either word. If I were to talk about these things, that's the sort of context.

In other words, what it says on the website. 😛

If I had kids and I were looking to introduce them into secondary school, I might ask "what's the school cirriculum these days?" Because I'd want to know what kids learn and what sort of classes they have. How education is structured, I suppose.

Things change, after all. It's been over a couple of decades since I went to school. I'd be asking teachers these things. So, that's a hypothetical context.

[wanton moss]

I see, I appreciate the further explanations ! That really helps !

[cedar gate]

"This wasn't on the syllabus" is a fun one whenever you get a pop quiz to try and take a moral high ground on your teacher

[flat rune]

Nice. Wish I'd thought of that back then.

[wanton moss]

I think I get what it means, thanks !

[flat rune]

Based on the website, it seems to me that 'cirriculum' is more general, while 'syllabus' is specifically a (usually written) plan explaining what the cirriculum is and how it'll all pan out. Something like that. IDK.

If I wanted a complete plan, I might for a copy of the syllabus (noun).

In my earlier example, I just wanted a general idea, not a complete written plan explaining everything the kids will learn and do.

[wanton moss]

Curriculum sort of like gives you the big picture of what your hypothetical children would study throughout the school year whereas syllabus narrows down the scope

Right ?

[cedar gate]

Yeah a curriculum is like the general subject matter or a series of books and topics to cover i think whereas a syllabus has more granular detail like what days the tests will be and what the homework assignments/required readings are mostly going to be and stuff like that

And i'm not sure curriculum is a literal thing like a printed sheet like the syllabus is

[idle rain]

Who uses internet a lot?

[cedar gate]

most people on discord probably

[flat rune]

I've always been a big fan of the Internet. I use it daily.

I didn't actually have the Internet at home until my early 20s.

But, I had friends who had the Internet, and they started using the Internet a lot at school, when it was Netscape and early Google (the search engine). That sort of drip-fed me the awesomeness of the Internet. 😆

[dense oasis]

I hadnt had any internet at home till i turned 14. I am 19 years old right now

thats a pretty abnormal situation i think lol

overall i think it was not really a good decision to make me not have it that time... it did yield some benefits now, but i think i couldve lived a better life, if i had the access to the internet those days

[dense oasis]

from the benefits, ive never become addicted to social media like facebook and stuff, which is good because my peers are, most of them are, and i also focused on school that time, but the downsides are that i pretty much had no idea about computers and technology till i turned 14 years old, thats pretty late to find out about stuff like this in the XXI century

i was 14 in 2019, this means that before 2019, i had no idea what the web is and how it even works

and it pretty much made me get interested in IT now, lol. i was shocked when i found out all that

[sacred frigate]

what does "rile someone up" mean?

[errant kettle]

It means to make them angry, generally. Though it can mean to get them excited in some other way.

[round jungle]

We've had internet for as long as I can remember, but my parents didn't want me "rotting my brain" online all day and wouldn't tell me the password for the dial-up thing (I'm old, lol), so I only had very limited access when I could persuade them to let me on. I didn't get to use the internet freely until we switched to a broadband connection when I was like 12-13 I think

[dense oasis]

American reality

my polish parents believed the internet is a form of brain control created by russians

i had to convince them otheriwse

otherwise

[round jungle]

Dang

[dense oasis]

my father is 60 years old

that could be the reason, he was raised in communist poland

[round jungle]

I guess that makes sense

[dense oasis]

everything that comes from the states is alien to these old polish

lol, cuz the ocean is pretty wide and long, the US is very far

[round jungle]

lol

[sacred frigate]

Can somebody explain why people say "you'd hoped" instead of just you hoped?

[supple holly]

You had hoped. Past perfect. Talks about an action that happened before another one in the past

You hoped keeping him alive would be easy, but later it turned out that it wasn't. There is an order to the actions, so you use past perfect to convey the difference in time

If you use "you hoped", it would still kinda make sense, but you'd be saying "you hope it was easy at the same time it turns out that it wasn't", so it's a little illogical if you go in-depth with it

[sacred frigate]

My thanks

What wiped out means?

[mystic oyster]

what is proofreading?

[flat rune]

A box of silver coins is hidden beneath the kitchen floorboards by the worker.
(Or)
A box of silver coins is hidden by the worker beneath the kitchen floorboards.

[mystic oyster]

ohh

I see

ty

[errant kettle]

“Wiped out” means exhausted

[errant kettle]

Proofreading is when one reads a document to look for grammar errors and spelling mistakes.

[errant kettle]

The second option needs a few commas to be correct “A box of silver coins is hidden, by the worker, beneath the kitchen floorboards.”

[flat rune]

Thanks

Does that mean both sentences are correct?

[errant kettle]

Yes they are both correct

[mystic oyster]

oh i see

[native forge]

Am I weird for using "He'd've?" He would have

[round jungle]

It's a little weird to see in writing, but in speech that's perfectly normal

[forest sparrow]

Can I say:

'He locked his sight in the ground.'
as in 'he stared down'?

[cedar gate]

it would be on the ground in that context

or maybe to the ground

[forest sparrow]

alr, thank you!

[round jungle]

Yep, it should be "to the ground" or "on the ground", and I think "his eyes" sounds better than "his sight"

With those changes, that works fine if you mean he's purposely staring at the ground and not looking anywhere else, like his eyes are locked in place

[forest sparrow]

thanks, that helps a lot!

[sacred frigate]

what about "'til" 'em, in' what is it considered?

[round jungle]

I'm not sure I understand the question. You mean are the short forms until -> 'til, them -> 'em, and -ing -> in' normal in speech/writing?

"'Em" and "in'" are very common in speech. "'Til" less so, but not unusual.

You wouldn't typically use them in writing unless you want to sound very casual / represent a particular way of speaking.

[flat rune]

Hi what does (lunching a friendship) mean?

[cloud echo]

Do you mean 'launching a friendship'?

[flat rune]

Yes

[cloud echo]

Oh, Ok. I believe it means to begin a friendship. Start of a new journey with this new friend.

[flat rune]

Ok thanks 🙏

[cloud echo]

Thats ok

[round jungle]

"Til" is not an acronym. (Or if it is, I've never seen it used that way before.) I could imagine a teacher coming up with that for "today I learned", if that's where you learned it, but that's not a widespread thing as far as I'm aware. The meaning in common use is a short form of "until".

For example, these mean the same thing:

Until we see each other again
'Til we see each other again

What do you mean by this?

"Until" means "up to [a point in time]". It has nothing to do with today / the present moment -- only in the context of "until today" specifically, which means "up to today"; something was true in the past, but starting today, it is not anymore

[cunning mica]

Hello! I get a question of the text in Macbeth. "As sparrows eagles or the hare the lion" What does this mean？

[round jungle]

• Dismayed not this our captains, Macbeth and Banquo?
• Yes, as sparrows eagles, or the hare the lion.
  I'm not especially well-versed in Shakespeare and don't know the full context, but this line is answering the previous question.

"Yes, they were dismayed, just like sparrows are dismayed [troubled/frightened/distressed] by eagles and hares are dismayed by lions."

[round jungle]

Honestly, my advice if you're still a beginner with English would be to not try to read Shakespeare yet. It's definitely worth checking out at a more advanced level if you're interested in literature, but it's difficult for even native speakers to understand and will teach you a lot of words and syntax that sounds very strange/archaic nowadays. I don't recommend it if you're not comfortable with the modern language yet because it probably won't help much and will just make things more confusing

Unless it was assigned by your teacher, of course, then carry on

[rapid ingot]

what's the difference between these?
Have you ever been to somewhere?
Have you ever been in somewhere?

[round jungle]

Have you ever been to ... = Have you ever visited ...
Have you ever been in ... = Have you ever been within/inside of ...

"Have you ever been to the Grand Canyon?" is asking if you have ever visited the Grand Canyon. "Have you ever been in the Grand Canyon?" is asking if you've ever been IN the canyon -- not just at the location, but within the canyon itself, like at the bottom or climbing the sides.

Basically, both prepositions are used more or less literally: "to" indicates movement towards a place (eg. going somewhere) and "in" indicates position inside something

[rapid ingot]

thank you schuyler
I thought have u ever been in means if u have ever lived there

[round jungle]

Nah, that would be "Have you ever lived in ..."

[short coyote]

there is a difference between
how come and how so? ive seen both but ive always took it like the same thign

[sacred frigate]

oooh ok thx!!

[flat rune]

They convey the same thing, which is to ask why a thing(s) is the way it is, was, would be, will be, etc.

Person A: "I am cold."
Person B: "How come?"
Person A: "Because you turned the heating off in the middle of winter!"

For example. B asks why A is cold. So, how come or how so that A is cold? Because B turned the heating off in the middle of winter.

[rapid ingot]

Do u type the smile icon like this : ) or this (: ?

[flat rune]

I've seen people use either one. I tend to use the latter, most especially because it fits better with the spacing of words and is interpreted well by things like Discord.

[rapid ingot]

ok 🙂

bruh (:

[flat rune]

I've just realised the other one was reversed. Yeah, people use that as well. Discord and most systems recognise the one with the parenthesis first.

[rapid ingot]

Is this () parenthesis?

[sacred frigate]

does jeopardize basically means to endanger?

?def jeopardize

[hazy herald]

Word: jeopardize

Definition 1 (verb): pose a threat to; present a danger to
Definition 2 (verb): put at risk

Definition requested by mus_simahin

[sacred frigate]

?def sabotage

[hazy herald]

Word: sabotage

Definition 1 (verb): destroy property or hinder normal operations
Definition 2 (noun): a deliberate act of destruction or disruption in which equipment is damaged

Definition requested by mus_simahin

[sacred frigate]

what's the difference between fractured and broken? or is it same thing

[wanton moss]

I’m not sure but I believe that if you were to use fractured then that would be using the medical terminology

[stuck timber]

There is no difference exactly, you can use both words for a bone or something that is cracked or snapped of entierly.

[coarse roost]

i stumbled on a forget me not flower, now i wanna know if this kind of construction is correct in english cuz the sound of it feels familiar, but i cant name a single example from the top of my head. maybe in context of semi-old english/prosaic texts?

like verb and then not

i think "dare you not" is an example

[cedar gate]

TIL is pretty common for today i learned on reddit at least

responding to the earlier messages about that

[cedar gate]

yeah "I dare you not to"
in the bible knew him not or received him not are used as well

but those latter two aren't common in spoken or even formal written english in a modern context

[cedar gate]

fractured implies its broken into more pieces i think whereas broken could still be an intact thing that doesnt work or broken into only two pieces

[earnest geode]

what's the difference between "I've been to China" and "I went to China" ?
we use present perfect when the action can be done again in the future unlike the simple past form ?

[flat rune]

Yeah. The singular is parenthesis and the plural is parentheses.

[flat rune]

To me, they convey the same thing. I find the 'I have' version useful for emphasis.

I have been to China.

I'm sure there are some fancy tense rules here, but I'm not the person to ask about that. I can only tell you how I'd interpret the sentences. Maybe @round jungle has an idea.

[sacred frigate]

hmm ok, can I say fractured trust?

[rapid ingot]

okay thanks
Btw do u know what does mullah mean? have u ever heard it before?

[vivid light]

Hii

[round jungle]

Simple past vs. present perfect has nothing to do with whether an action is repeatable. Simple past just describes something that happened in the past, disconnected from the present. Present perfect describes the present as influenced by a past event. In both cases, the action may or may not be repeatable, but that's not the point.

"I've been to China" is talking about your life experience. The statement is describing you now, in the present, as someone who has had the experience of visiting China.

"I went to China" is talking specifically about the past event, separate from its effect on you in the present. You would use simple past when recounting details about your trip to someone, not to talk more broadly about where you have been in your lifetime.

I went to China when I was 7 and it was exciting.
I would use simple past here because I am telling you about what happened on my trip in the past.

I have been to China and Canada.
I would use present perfect here because I am listing the countries that I have visited in the past. The point is not to talk about what happened on my trips to those places; the point is to describe my state in the present as someone who has experienced being in those countries.

[flat rune]

Yeah, we use it to mean 'money', 'cash', 'dosh', etc.

[rapid ingot]

bro wtf

?def mullah

[hazy herald]

Word: mullah

Definition (noun): a Muslim trained in the doctrine and law of Islam; the head of a mosque

Definition requested by minereza

[rapid ingot]

it doesn't mean money at all

[flat rune]

Oh, we sometimes say it over here to mean 'money'. I guess we sort of butchered the word. I never knew it had a proper meaning. 😆

Might have a different spelling.

Oh, I'm thinking of 'mula' or 'moolah'. My bad.

[rapid ingot]

no problem
But these word u said it's not even in dictionary

is it specially for your accent ?

[coarse roost]

I dont really get the construction "I'd rather you stay here", wouldnt it make more sense to be "I'd rather have you (stay) here"?

similarly "would you rather I go shopping alone or w/ you" -> "would you rather have me go shopping alone or w/ you"

[flat rune]

Yeah, it's slang. You definitely won't find it in a regular dictionary. 😆 It's a UK thing, not an accent thing.

[flat rune]

It depends what you wish to convey. The second one is quite forceful, implying control or obligation. Definitely wouldn't recommend saying the second one.

Think of the first one as a shorter version of:

I'd rather that you stay here.

Just, without the 'that'.

[flat rune]

Similar story here.

I will have you go to town.

For example, this implies I will make you go to town. Not what people usually wish to convey.

[coarse roost]

okay thanks, i just dont really see how the "id rather" connects with the rest of the sentence since before that for the most part i used "rather" in sentences like "would you rather do thais or that", "would you rather choose this or that" etc, so this connection seems a bit weird to me

especially when the "I" comes after "rather"

[flat rune]

I don't think people really use that form, these days. Generally speaking. Unless someone is being overly aggressive, controlling, or has a very high position of authority. I can imagine it being popular in a military setting.

If you don't do 20 pushups, I will have you clean the toilets!

Something like that.

[coarse roost]

yeah, i get that the form with have is showing superiority and control over situation, its just that i found this wording to be the most sound and close to the "id rather you" form

[flat rune]

I can't find anything online to explain why we use this form. Hopefully someone else can explain it.

[coarse roost]

big thank anyways

[cedar gate]

yeah i think so, though it might be interpreted as a more poetic or 'extra'/dramatic way of saying that

than broken trust would be taken to mean

[flat rune]

Ooo, I like the wording of 'fractured trust'. That's pretty well said, IMO. Because it doesn't necessarily mean it's completely severed, but that there are simply fractures.

If someone made mistakes several times, causing me to have to deal with the situation, I might consider the trust fractured, but not broken or severed. It strikes me as descriptive.

But, it does sound kinda poetic, I agree.

[cedar gate]

oh yeah fractured does have that meaning of not totally broken as well i guess

[north viper]

Can i learning English while watch series? or is this a lie

[earnest geode]

thank you that is clear now !

[haughty leaf]

well, I believe watching series will improve your listening skills but in my opinion it's not enough to get a better level in english, one needs to read and practice the language in order to learn more and even increase their vocabulary.

[pearl lion]

Guys, correct me if this sentence is wrong “make the order of your T-shirt”

I have another question about present perfect. I saw video on YouTube and the teacher said we can use present perfect to about the past… He also said that we have two options to speak about the past simple past and present perfect! I’ve never heard about it…

[flat rune]

Unless there's a specific context here and this is a part of a sentence, then this is wrong. I'm not sure what it is you wish to say. Can you rephrase?

[flat rune]

Can you give me an example?

[forest sparrow]

In the sentence
"The sun has set, we have night already"
do you say "night", "the night" or "a night"?

[flat rune]

Refer to Schuyler's message below.

It's not always 'the'. For example:

It's night-time.

[round jungle]

"The sun has set. It is night already."

We don't say "we have" to talk about time, and we wouldn't use an article in this sentence. In other contexts, it could be either "the night" or "a night"

[flat rune]

That's what I get for not paying attention. 😆

[forest sparrow]

How about... if I wanted to talk about those regions with polar days and nights? Could I say
"The sun has been shining for months and the nights were bright, but now we have actual night"?

[flat rune]

Yeah, the article is fine there.

Regarding the last part, I'd say "but now it's actually night-time." Assuming that's what you wish to convey.

[forest sparrow]

does "night-time" refer not only to the time, but also to darkness, then?

[flat rune]

Come to think of it, you've got "has been" and "were in the same sentence, the same clause even. I'm a bit confused what you mean. I think I naturally assumed the 'were' was in reference to something in the past.

[forest sparrow]

oh
yeah, i confused the tenses, sorry

[flat rune]

The sun has been shining for months and the nights bright, but now it's actually night-time.

This is actually how I'd say it, again, assuming that's what you wish to convey.

[forest sparrow]

i wanna talk about the border between the 6-months long day and the 6-months long night

[flat rune]

I used "the nights bright" to avoid repeating the "has been" part. Some might argue I shouldn't have shortened it like that here, because there might be some ambiguity between whether I'm reusing 'has been' or 'shining', or even the whole thing, 'has been shining'. It's one of those 'assumed from context' things, I'd argue. 😛

[flat rune]

Wow, sounds like a wild planet.

BTW, it's "6-month". We don't tend to use the plural with the noun, when they're connected in that way. Weird, I know.

It's a 7-mile run.

It's a 4-second delay.

It's a 10-meter drop.

This is presumably because '10-meter', for example, is treated as a compound noun. @round jungle can confirm that, I expect.

[forest sparrow]

Earth is a wild planet :>
I checked and apparently it's not exactly 6 months, but 5 something months (up to 179 days)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polar_night

[pearl lion]

I’m asking to people to buy one tshirt

[cloud echo]

It would probably be changed to 'Make an order for a T-Shirt'.

[flat rune]

True that. Earth is wild, but 6 months of day and night would almost certainly lead to a very extreme planet. I can't imagine it'd sustain life as it does today. Imagine the sun shining on the same place for 6 months, then being vacant for 6 months.

[flat rune]

Yep, that's the one. I'm so used to seeing that article there that it didn't even compute that's what was meant.

[cloud echo]

I think it's also partly how humans adapt to the environments they live in. Like, I don't think any other species on earth can survive in the sunny tropics of Hawaii and the biting cold of the Arctic.

[pearl lion]

Sorry guys, I was thinking in Portuguese when I making the sentence 😔

[cloud echo]

Hey, no need to be sorry. There is no shame in being wrong.

[forest sparrow]

True, if polar nights were occurring on the whole planet, we'd be in trouble. Half a year of sunlight is better than there always being sunlight on one side of the planet (which is what happens with tidally locked planets)
woops, I got too absorbed in the discussion 😅 anyway I wanted to ask one more English thing

[forest sparrow]

this right here, could you answer @flat rune? sorry for the ping

[pearl lion]

I need to change it!! Think in English is better

[flat rune]

It's not just how we evolve, many would surely argue. There doesn't seem to be any evidence to suggest humans — or 'advanced' life as we know it in general — could live on such an extreme planet. Not that it's impossible, but it so far seems pretty unlikely. Granted, we have a very small data set.

If the sun shined down on us for 6 months straight, just really take a moment to think what that would do to Earth. To every single species on the planet. Extremophiles would probably be fine, but I doubt much else would be. I'm not sure what it'd even do to our atmosphere.

I know I'm overthinking something benign, but that's where my head's at ATM. 😆

[flat rune]

Being wrong is an important part of learning to be right.

[cloud echo]

Yeah, its mostly due to our developments that help us survive.

[round jungle]

I'd probably say either "Order a T-shirt" or "Place an order for a T-shirt" (and "your T-shirt" would be fine, too). "Make" isn't wrong but sounds slightly unnatural; I don't know, maybe that's just me

[flat rune]

Yeah, 'make' sounds a little odd to me, too. I'd usually use the first example.

[cloud echo]

No, you're right but I wanted to keep it simple with my explanation.

[forest sparrow]

Hm, I don't really understand. Did you intend to write "the night's bright", meaning "the night is bright"? If not, what does it mean when you put the noun and the adjective together with no verb to connect them?

[rapid ingot]

How do u say LOL in real life or voice chat?

[hollow night]

Question for British English speakers. How do you pronounce "flour" in Britain? Do you say "flower" or "flar"?

[noble drift]

💯💯💯How to achieve B2 from B1?💯💯💯

[round jungle]

It's a shortening of "and the nights have been bright". You can leave out the verb if it's the same as the one you just used to avoid sounding repetitive: "The sun has been shining for months, and the nights [have been] bright."

(I feel like this is more common in literature/poetry than everyday language, though.)

[obsidian stone]

hey anyone know about media theories ?

[round jungle]

In speech, you would normally just laugh if something's funny. You don't need to spell it out verbally. 😆 We use "lol" in writing because the people reading it can't hear us laughing.

If you want to SAY "lol", then you just say the letters: "el-oh-el", and people do do that sometimes. But using chat-speak irl has kind of a "cringy teenager" vibe to it. In a very casual conversation with your friends, you might do that, but in a general context, it sounds a little weird, and it would be very out-of-place if you're supposed to be speaking formally

[flat rune]

It wasn't a typo of "the night's bright". The nights, plural, are bright. I'll defer you to what I said about repetition and also what Schuyler said.

[flat rune]

You don't. You actually laugh. 😛

[flat rune]

Much like 'flower'. Depends whereabouts you live or come from, though.

[flat rune]

Absolutely. It's incredibly painful hearing people actually say 'lol' instead of just laughing. I used to know people like that, and it was really irritating.

[forest sparrow]

thanks :]

[obsidian stone]

nobody knows anything bout media theories

[wooden yacht]

this article goes over it really well; it's not likely that someone will say [flaː] on its own, but it's very possible that they can say it in the middle of a phrase without consciously thinking about it

https://www.englishspeechservices.com/blog/smoothing-then-and-now/

(start at "Let’s listen to some examples" and also notice how the smoothed version of "sour" in the audio doesn't rhyme with "star" — often the word "our" as in "our hope" is the only one that can rhyme that way, because it followed the older smoothing)

[short coyote]

what sounds more natural?

what's your main lang? or what's your native lang?

[supple holly]

I think "native language" is closer to what most people want to know when they ask that yeah

[short coyote]

how would you ask for asking the original language of someone

[supple holly]

"What's your native language?"

Like you said above

[round jungle]

☝️ "What's your native language?" or "What's your first language?"

"Lang" isn't something people really say; it's only used in casual writing sometimes.

"What's your main language?" sounds fine, but it's a different question. Someone's main language (ie. the one they use the most or are most comfortable with) is not always their native one.

[round jungle]

I don't think we know what you mean by "media theories". 😅 Do you have an example of what you're talking about? Or a specific question?

[honest valley]

Hey, can someone explain how or why "Police police police police police police police" is a valid sentence?

[supple holly]

You can see here. Someone made a detailed explanation
https://www.reddit.com/r/grammar/comments/kva86x/is_police_police_police_police_police_police_a/

[honest valley]

Yeah I found that while searching, but I was hoping someone here could explain in easier terms

[supple holly]

Basically it's just stacking adjectives before the noun, and also various positions of speech having the same form (police can be a noun or a verb)

[supple holly]

Ah okay. So here you just need to remember that police can be both a noun and a verb
The noun meaning cops and stuff
The verb meaning "to control, manage, to make sure they follow the law"

Starting off simple, we get:
Police police police
= This group of police police (the verb) the other group of police

Add one more in, we get:
Police police + police + police
= This group of police who police groups of police police the other group of police

Then the more you add in, the more layers it get

[honest valley]

What is meant by the first "police police" in "(police police)(what is this?) police(verb) police(noun)"?

[supple holly]

That's a noun phrase. Basically you can add nouns in front of another noun to specify its purpose or category. Like how you say "people managers" to mean "managers who mainly work with people"

So if you say "police police" (2 nouns), you mean "police who mainly work with (other) police"

[honest valley]

Ohh, I see, but how do we know which one of those are supposed to be verb or nouns. If you can keep adding nouns to nouns then isn't it possible for all four "police" to be nouns?

[supple holly]

Every English sentence must have at least 1 verb to be grammatically correct. Based on that, you can figure out which one of the words is the noun (in writing), or based on the intonation (in speech)

[honest valley]

So is "Police police" not a valid sentence because it doesn't have a verb?

[supple holly]

It's still valid, because that says "police do their job, which is to police". The verb doesn't need an object here

Either way, this is kinda a joke sentence anyway lol. It's grammatically possible, but no one in their right mind would phrase their sentences like this

[honest valley]

Yeah I know, but it's fun such a sentence is possible and grammatically correct. Thanks for your help ❤️

Why do you have a Beginner role? That's misleading.

[supple holly]

I like the color

[cloud echo]

it does suit your pfp too.

[supple holly]

Exactly lol

[lavish girder]

Which one is right.

1. I didn't even want to be near him.

2. I didn't even wanted to be near him.

(Can I use did + even + V3?)

[supple holly]

Only 1) is right
You can't use Ved/V3 after "did (not)", as in the simple past tense. You can with passive voice, but that's a different thing

[lavish girder]

Okay, thank you so much.

One more question.

I can use " I didn't get invited" in a sentence right?

[cloud echo]

You can use that in a sentence or as a sentence itself

[supple holly]

Yes. That's the passive voice I mentioned

[lavish girder]

Got it, thanks a lot.

[echo epoch]

What is the difference between conartist and fraudster?

[flat rune]

One is about cons and the other frauds. BTW, the first one is wrong, as it's two words: 'con artist'

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/con
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fraud

Admittedly, they are similar in nature.

[thin spruce]

What is the difference between, for example, "i was killed" and "i have been killed"?

[royal pulsar]

I don’t know how to properly ask this but sometimes I run across with sentences or phrases that uses “to” rather than “than” to indicate the comparison or which is better between the two things. I was wondering if someone could help me to understand this cuz it’s still confusing for me.

[flat rune]

Like "compared to"?

I genuinely can't think of anything that really matches up to what you said. Can you offer an example?

[royal pulsar]

No no. There are these words that can only be followed by “to” instead of “than” like “I prefer this thing TO this.” So my question is, what’s wrong with “I prefer this thing THAN this?”

Usage of these two preposition still confuses me as of now.

[flat rune]

Ooh, I got you. That last example sounds all kinds of wrong to me. I'll have a guess at this.

Take this, for example:

I prefer driving to walking.

I prefer to drive, than to walk.

The first example uses gerunds, so it's just two nouns. The speaker prefers thing compared to thing. Whereas in the second example, the speaker prefers to action (to-infinitives), rather than action. Why? Couldn't tell you, but maybe that's at least 1% helpful. 😄

I'm pretty sure that's the difference, though.

I prefer black cars to red ones.

Then you have sentences like this that don't really have a verb form, unless you add additional information, like "prefer to drive".

As for 'than' in another form:

This car is better than mine.

Usually phrased like the above example, in which you have a subject, the way in which it's different, and finally the thing the subject is compared to.

Some more examples:

• "This boat is more expensive than my old one."
• "It's more windy than it was yesterday."
• "He's driving ever slower than he did last week."
• "The game is cheaper than it was on the last sale."

And so on.

[royal pulsar]

Does it also have anything to do with the point of view of what we’re expressing? Like do I only use “than” or “to” if I’m speaking in a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd person?

[flat rune]

I'm fairly sure it doesn't, because:

I prefer swimming to walking.

You prefer swimming to walking.

He prefers swimming to walking.

They wind up the same. The same applies to the 'than' form with verbs instead of gerunds (or nouns in general).

[wanton moss]

Is it correct to say « no sooner was I born there than we moved to America » ?

What tense do I need to use here ?

[flat rune]

Can you phrase it more simply, to ensure I have the context and meaning right?

No longer had I completed the game than in a mere 20 minutes.

I'm guessing you're going for something like this. Although I've just chosen a different word (instead of 'sooner') and context, but similar structure.

So, a rephrase:

I completed the game in no longer than a mere 20 minutes.

I'd say this is perfectly fine, but in my experience it's not too common, except perhaps in creative writing, or more formal/proper speech and writing.

I'd use the tense I used, but it just depends what you wish to express. For example, if I wanted to say the same thing, but refer to a hypothetical situation, per a given condition:

No longer would I have completed the game than in a mere 20 minutes, if [condition].

It starts to sound overly wordy though, IMO.

[wanton moss]

Thank you, I know it’s very formal and not colloquial at all but I need to use certain formal set expressions like this one for an exam

[flat rune]

No problem. I understand.

When no sooner is used in front position, we invert the order of the auxiliary verb and subject. This is common in more formal and literary styles.

I know you have the order down, but I thought another example of the tenses used might help.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/grammar/british-grammar/no-sooner

The example they gave on that page is really strange to me. It almost looks wrong. Goes to show how rare this form is, I guess.

Inversion is used now and then, though.

[winged charm]

how to write essays better? i get good marks on my comprehension section but i lose alot of marks because i suck at writing essays

[terse monolith]

i've noticed that people doesnt link words occasionally ||(linking words like want to -> wanna, an artist to `an-artist, "n" in "an" and "a" in artist" are linked to "an nar tist")|| how often should it be used actually?

[winged charm]

i do that every day but this is an English Practice thing server so yea i dont use them much here

[potent igloo]

I use ChatGPT or any AI Platform for brainstorming and get any ideas for essays

[winged charm]

yeah but getting ideas is not my problem, i just don't write the essays good

i write alot but i dont get the amount of marks i expect

[royal pulsar]

What about the difference between "from" and "by?" Why "BY" is wrong to use with sentences like "Her years of practicing drawing human anatomy culminated when she received many compliments FROM well-known artists?" It seems these two words are sometimes intertwined by beginners and those still practicing like me T_T.

[flat rune]

Let's be fair here and not sugar-coat it, some of us native English speakers have absolutely terrible English. So, I wouldn't learn much English from such people, unless it's for other reasons, like learning slang or familiarising yourself with common mistakes.

Using the wrong variant of the indefinite article is a mistake that is ordinarily quite silly for a native to make, IMO. We learn these things as a very young child. 🫣 Although, I think it's only fair to keep in mind that there are many reasons why someone might struggle to use English better, and many people simply don't care, at all.

As for 'wanna', it's just a colloquialism that makes "want to" quicker to say.

[wild bear]

Why do fat bitches be the loudest

[minor goblet]

I mean atleast they are confident i guess i'm pretty anxious everytime people try to speak english with me

[wild bear]

Genuine question

[minor goblet]

Same reason why fat dudes are the funniest maybe they are really insecure about theirs body and need to use stuffs like that to make up for it

[wild bear]

So its for attention

Is it that hard to go on a caloric deficit?

Eat less move more?

[minor goblet]

I mean probaly for them since losing weight is not that easy for most people

[wild bear]

Thats a lie

They just be hungry af

Do fat people exist who fast?

Never seen one

[minor goblet]

Yes if you're talking about short range

[wild bear]

For real

[minor goblet]

They can really bust there energy

[wild bear]

How come

They are able to eat the whole fridge but when its time to fast they can hold it in

Thats the proof i needed

[minor goblet]

Its like running for your life for 20m then you're out of gas

[wild bear]

Yeah thats fucked up

Due to the lack of daily exercise

With all due respect i hate those mfs

[minor goblet]

Yep there could be various reasons for one to be overweight

You shouldn't really hate them in general just hate the ones that are lazy asf

Some of them are really hurt and food probaly is the great way to escape reality

[round jungle]

1. This has nothing to do with languages.
2. Can we please not stereotype, fat-shame, and use slurs and hostile language here 😑 You have no idea what's going on in someone else's life.

This channel is for getting help with English. Do you have an English question?

[dense oasis]

I don't understand how fat-shaming is a bad thing, some people deserve to be blamed, but I agree that it is a pretty bad form of language to put it this way. No idea why theyre so blunt

[supple wadi]

[floral canopy]

What is the difference between have to and have got to?

[boreal belfry]

functionally they are interchangeable, except for the fact that "have got to" can only be used in the present tense. I'd say "have got to" is more informal and typically used in spoken English.

[royal pulsar]

Up

[sacred frigate]

?def yank

[hazy herald]

Word: yank

Definition 1 (verb): pull, or move with a sudden movement
Definition 2 (noun): an American who lives in the North (especially during the American Civil War)
Definition 3 (noun): an American (especially to non-Americans)

Other definitions can be found here

Definition requested by mus_simahin

[boreal belfry]

The word “by” is typically used in English to indicate the agent in a passive voice construction or to describe the means by which something is done.
Passive voice: The painting was admired by the audience.
Means or method: She travelled by plane.
"from" is typically used to describe the source or origin of something. In your example sentence that would be the source or origin of the compliments.

[royal pulsar]

https://tenor.com/view/snake-thanksss-harry-potter-sorcerers-stone-philosophers-stone-gif-15486527