🧠｜serious-chat

[gritty echo]

What is Quranist

[thorny steeple]

Did you touch girls

[gritty echo]

The Quran is Allah's words nothing can go higher than it

[haughty veldt]

💀💀

[manic juniper]

Someone who only follows the Qur'an and not the hadiths

[thorny steeple]

You only follow Quran but not hadith

[gritty echo]

Hadits booked after 150 years prophet Muhammed death

In 150 years, they lived with Quran

[manic juniper]

Yes I know

[gritty echo]

No words of them hearing from someone

[manic juniper]

Hadiths allegedly existed as oral traditions

[gritty echo]

Allah says this book is the final book I will send you,

I introduced everything clearly in this book

[coral belfry]

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَطِيعُوا اللَّهَ وَأَطِيعُوا الرَّسُولَ وَأُولِي الْأَمْرِ مِنكُمْ ۖ فَإِن تَنَازَعْتُمْ فِي شَيْءٍ فَرُدُّوهُ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَالرَّسُولِ إِن كُنتُمْ تُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ خَيْرٌ وَأحسنُ تَأْوِيلًا (59)
O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those in authority among you. If you dispute about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best, and a most excellent resolution.

[formal pilot]

Unfortunately yes, that's how I started my atheism journey
If you don't believe in hell
You won't get into it

[thorny steeple]

By authority, you mean leaders lol like the king of KSA.

[gritty echo]

Obeying the prophet and hadits are different things, people learn how they will pray from the prophet Muhammed , how they will do other things too

[manic juniper]

Most excellent resolution (for domestic products) is 8K so far

[gritty echo]

Hadits booked after 150 years of it

[manic juniper]

I got a 4K TV

[thorny steeple]

I thought you were born an atheist.

[gritty echo]

Arent people at this time Muslim or other things ?

[formal pilot]

@gusty apex you should provide bukhari 5590 as evidence

[manic juniper]

Well some scholars think those were the actual Muslims, and those who came earlier were generic monotheists

[gritty echo]

Is Umar stupid to think about it,

Why didn't booked hadiths then

He is actually afraid of this

[uncut tiger]

@formal pilot I thought you were a muslim

[formal pilot]

Teenager me would stoned my current self to death for being atheist

[uncut tiger]

Weren't you the guy defending Islam in serious chat a few months ago

[gritty echo]

People don't read Quran taking hadits is like a religion

They are just listening to what their sheyh saying

Islam is corrupted in this century because of it

[coral belfry]

what

[thorny steeple]

Yep, monotheism is the important thing

[gritty echo]

The first word of Allah was "read" to prophet Muhammad

[formal pilot]

If you're Islamophobic, I'm muslim
If you hate Christians I'm christian
If you hate LGBT I'm lesbian

If you're antisemitic, I'm jew

[gritty echo]

People aren't reading the Quran they just listen to other peoples words

And they believe it is like Islam

[thorny steeple]

The prophet said : Do not write from me. He knew they could change everything

[manic juniper]

Scholars such as Fred M. Donner think Islam was built over time and the first "Muslims" weren't Muslims in the modern sense, those who succeeded them were. After one or two centuries of consolidating power and traditions

[gritty echo]

Yes exactly

[night cedar]

I'm antisemitic

[gritty echo]

And Allah is saying it too

You will be judged only from this book nothing more

[manic juniper]

The solution is being a Lesbianese Jew, they have Christians and Muslims there and they are the femboys of the Middle East

[thorny steeple]

Exactly. And those Sheikhs are only men which means...

[gritty echo]

I'm telling you everything in the Quran

Allah saying it you cant say word after that

Nothing can be higher than Allah

[thorny steeple]

And so am I. Except one lol

[uncut tiger]

Tell me one point that makes you not believe In Islam the most

[gritty echo]

They use religion like a tool they are talking about hadiths

Even never existed

Because they are earning money from it

People corrupted with time

[manic juniper]

Neither of my parents is a Muslim

[gritty echo]

Even the Quran bans these things

[thorny steeple]

Yea, also they use it as a tool against women ( not all of them )

[coral belfry]

oh yes , adnani arabs came from ismail (the son of ibrahim)
so they had the same believes as him until what is called asr al jahilia

[uncut tiger]

See this is the thing I was pointing out earlier
You have a thing with twisting arguments AND ITS FUCKING ANNOYING

[gritty echo]

But people don't read the Quran and believe staff are not even written in Quran

[uncut tiger]

[formal pilot]

You misspelt antiseptic, aren't you turmeric colored

[gritty echo]

They are creating new religion

[manic juniper]

What

[gritty echo]

It is not Islam

[formal pilot]

[gritty echo]

It is a different thing from it

[manic juniper]

How was that relevant to my reply to Aladdin

[uncut tiger]

It was not

[manic juniper]

Then

[thorny steeple]

That's not a point. I do not believe in a certain religion because I am not convinced by what it teaches, not because my parents are not following it

[night cedar]

[uncut tiger]

Do you think this reply is completely rational and isn't even a tiny bit satirical?

[manic juniper]

Yes, but I am not Christian, Buddhist or anything because neither of my parents are, most people simply inherit their parents' religion. That's how it is for 99% of them

[thorny steeple]

Islam is always on top

[gritty echo]

Even the term this is the worst thing I ever heard,

[manic juniper]

It's the only explanation as to why everyone has different beliefs, they inherit them. Why would I believe in something that has nothing to do with my life

[gritty echo]

Allah explained the rules of religion to me in a clear and understandable language in the Quran, and stated that there is no other source for Islam

[thorny steeple]

Haters will hate

[gritty echo]

These people are committing shirk by speaking words upon the words of Allah and believing it as religion.

[coral belfry]

for us yes but for them not so much everyone has their pov

[thorny steeple]

Yes. That's why we have to research the matter, not just follow blindly.

Islamophobes will always cry

[gritty echo]

I hope one day they will fulfill God's first commandment, read.

[thorny steeple]

Because they can't reach the top ✅️

[gritty echo]

and they really read the Quran from beginning to end

[manic juniper]

But I don't find mythology to be believable, maybe some do but I do not

[night cedar]

this doesn't fell like a conversation

[gritty echo]

Then they realize that what they believe in is nonsense.

[thorny steeple]

You are right. I see religion as a lifestyle, a way to live life. If it does not do anything with life, then it's useless

[manic juniper]

Sometimes it's interesting but it's not something I find believable

[thorny steeple]

Where did you take this number from?

[formal pilot]

My opinion on muslim in islam

the hadith doesnt prove it the quran doesnt prove it they all bring up hadiths such as sahih Bukhari 5590 which if you compare to other hadiths that talk about the same thing you can see that there is a miswording and these people say it is Haram, if you read quarn you'll understand every prohibition is related multiple times, but there's no mention for music

Even during the time of the prophet, duf (Musical instrument) was quite popular, and most scholars say only duf is halal and everything else is Haram

[manic juniper]

Assumptions and personal experience

[thorny steeple]

Haters will hate

[manic juniper]

I doubt that two Christian parents would teach Judaism to their son

[formal pilot]

I would love to open a music company with beat boxers, it would be a massive hit among muslims

[uncut tiger]

duf is halal?

[formal pilot]

Yes, according to many scholars it's halal

[thorny steeple]

Crying won't solve anything

[thorny steeple]

You are totally free.

[manic juniper]

Isn't there written somewhere that the word of Allah is simple and clear or something

[gritty echo]

They commit polytheism by calling things that Allah has not prohibited as haram.

[manic juniper]

But people disagree on what is said and what to follow

[thorny steeple]

Yeah, they will take sides while teaching it

[formal pilot]

Doesn't it come under the umbrella of Shirk, which is most prohibited

[thorny steeple]

Islam is the only way to salvation

[formal pilot]

Amen

[manic juniper]

Jumalauta

[uncut tiger]

ive heard an asian muslim scholar say that there is zero evidence of ANY SORT of musical instrument during the prophets era @formal pilot

[formal pilot]

Yeah all confusion is because of interpretation

[uncut tiger]

nvr heard abt the duf stuff

[high raven]

There are instruments older than the religion of Islam

[formal pilot]

There is a hadith when the prophet visits a tribe, people of that tribe sing and play duf as celebration

My wordings aren't accurate but the message was this

[manic juniper]

Yeah and this is a point in pretty much all religions, even in the past they had forty versions of Athena at one point in history. But at least they didn't pretend that Athena had just one aspect or was in a particular way, it was more flexible. I find this more believable than the opposite

The opposite would only be more believable if it was true

[uncut tiger]

dyk the hadith number

[thorny steeple]

But the Vikings also believed in Odin and had a rich methodology

[manic juniper]

Romans and Greeks be like: Why yes that Celtic pork god is their Mars/Ares counterpart

[uncut tiger]

nvm i found it

[manic juniper]

There are many Norse gods that we know very little of despite being heavily featured in prayers and runes, such as Ullr. And Vikings likely believed in both Jesus and their own pantheon at some point, at the same time

Before they thought of their older gods as exaggerated folk stories of the past

[formal pilot]

Everything is prophesied, muslim sect will divide in 73 parts, only 1 sect will be right

Also there are hadiths that there will be a time when people will claim to be expert and by twisting the words of god and prophet they'll misguide others

That's why muslims get angry with a different interpretations

[thorny steeple]

On top of what?

[formal pilot]

Would you mind sending it here, as long as I can remember he told them to stop but never criticized the act, and didn't make it a prohibition lol

I read that Hadith like a decade ago

[manic juniper]

At least 6 centuries after Christianity they just looked over there and saw what happened to it, many sects and conflicting opinions most of whom were eventually silenced

[manic juniper]

How long have you been an ex Muslim for

Did it happen suddenly or was there a gray time

[thorny steeple]

I find the history of Christianity really interesting

[thorny steeple]

so you dont follow hadiths

[gritty echo]

Yeah I'm not following a thing booked after 150 years of Prophet Muhammed Death

[thorny steeple]

many instruments arent halal

[thorny steeple]

are you greek turkice

[gritty echo]

Who saying it

You say a word higher than the Allah word

With that

Are you Allah, tövbe haşa

[thorny steeple]

hadiths are there

[uncut tiger]

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:952

[formal pilot]

It wasn't like a light switch which turned on and off immediately, I used to debate atheists and other religious folks, i started questioning everything in around 2014 and became a progressive muslim, eventually i became atheist somewhere between 2017-18

[thorny steeple]

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allah have mercy on him) said:

“The interpretation of the Sahabah and Tabi'in, that ‘idle talk’ refers to singing, is sufficient. This was reported with sahih isnad from Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Mas’ud. Abu’l-Sahba said: I asked Ibn Mas’ud about the ayah (interpretation of the meaning), ‘“And of mankind is he who purchases idle talks’ [Luqman 31:6]. He said: By Allah, besides Whom there is no other god, this means singing – and he repeated it three times. It was also reported with a sahih isnad from Ibn ‘Umar (may Allah be pleased with them both) that this means singing.

There is no contradiction between the interpretation of “idle talk” as meaning singing and the interpretation of it as meaning stories of the Persians and their kings, and the kings of the Romans, and so on, such as al-Nadr ibn al-Harith used to tell to the people of Makkah to distract them from the Quran.

[coral belfry]

these extremists are a minority bro
they are only loud with their talks and actions

[thorny steeple]

Its rapid spread, cultural and political impact, ..… and many many things. Overall the Abrahamic religions are interesting

[coral belfry]

okey

[gritty echo]

which hadits after 150 years prophet Muhammad's death they are booked and there was like 1.5million Hadith and they eliminate it like 8000 and even Umar time there was 500 Hadith his collect but didn't booked it because exactly of it

[manic juniper]

Do you think it's easy for a progressive Muslim to become atheist? Or do they stop there

[thorny steeple]

are you greek turkice?

[formal pilot]

I mean it's the closest step to atheism

[gritty echo]

You are just ignoring the Quran with that

[manic juniper]

I guess, same thing happened to my mum since she was progressive but quite religious at the same time

[formal pilot]

If you grew up reading about religion you would have to be extra certain to reject the god lol

[gritty echo]

You are ignoring Allahs word and you are taking religion as hadits

Not Quran

[thorny steeple]

i also take Quran

Extremism can be found in any religion. Do not associate it with one specific group. It is not caused by the religion itself

[formal pilot]

Yeah the slow way is a better way, generally folks who grew up in an extra religious environment take this route since they have to be extra sure lol

[manic juniper]

Sámi extremists be like: everyone will fish and own a reindeer

[gritty echo]

By taking the narrated things as definitive information and believing them as religion, you are going against the Quran, which only tells the word of Allah and the way of Islam

Allah said that only the Quran is incorruptible

[manic juniper]

If the change is too sudden it's religious delusion, it goes both ways

And most of the times these people change religion just as quickly if they didn't put too much thought into it

[formal pilot]

There's a different one with more details, and different story

[gritty echo]

Allah says in the Quran that you cannot hold any source other than this book responsible.

[thorny steeple]

Yes once they start questioning everything they can doubt it and lose faith

[formal pilot]

I absolutely agree with you

[gritty echo]

And you reject the book of Allah by accepting books other than the Quran as if they were Islam.

[thorny steeple]

It's not for leaders to take control

[manic juniper]

Becoming an extremist seems quite easy

[gritty echo]

I hope one day Allah will help you see the right path.and you will return from this mistake

[uncut tiger]

atheism is a satanic religion

[manic juniper]

Imagine if the religion says that innocent babies go straight to heaven, someone could take the burden and send as many of them to heaven as possible, they'll go to hell but they technically saved many souls

[thorny steeple]

None holds religious authority

[manic juniper]

Don't know any atheism where people sacrificed to someone

[uncut tiger]

we should hire an atheist for this jjob

[heady tapir]

which job

[manic juniper]

He wouldn't be committed to it

[uncut tiger]

killing muslim newborns so that they go straight to heaven

[thorny steeple]

Omg 😱

[uncut tiger]

what if hes paid

[heady tapir]

a gun and they disappear

[thorny steeple]

None is asking them to follow them

[thorny steeple]

They could send them to heaven but first they need to kill

[thorny steeple]

Uh nuh? Saying you are a Muslim and supporting that shi

Killing is immoral

[manic juniper]

Yes that's what I meant, according to their worldview and logic it's justified and better than risking them choosing the wrong religion or none

[manic juniper]

It is. But what if the sinner wants to take the burden for their better future?

[heady tapir]

FOR THE BETTER FUTURE

send them back where they belong to

[uncut tiger]

what if i hire jeffrey dahmer 4 da job

[heady tapir]

man anyways im just kidding

[thorny steeple]

The concept of heaven is not only in islam ? What are you yapping bro ?

[manic juniper]

I wasn't talking about Islam

[heady tapir]

but what if your Gf is a muslim girl

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/dahmer-jeffrey-dahmer-jeff-jeffrey-serial-killer-gif-10286851532195727102

[thorny steeple]

Ah bon?

[manic juniper]

I was talking about a generic religion where babies are innocent and they go straight to heaven

[thorny steeple]

Wot

[manic juniper]

According to some Christians babies aren't always innocent and they go to the limbo (that's in the gates of Hell) if they are not baptised

[uncut tiger]

i think babies are innocent in islam and maybe in christianity too

[thorny steeple]

I am trynna say such a thing to him but..

Which religion support killing babies ? Damn bro 😭

[manic juniper]

According to some Christians he does

[coral belfry]

no one

[heady tapir]

according Laozi , you are guilty when y born

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limbo

[thorny steeple]

Yeahh

[coral belfry]

maybe some in some random germanic tribes

[thorny steeple]

That is not universally accepted today. Only some Catholics believed in it long ago. It's not declared now!!

[manic juniper]

Yes I know, that's why I said "some"

There is debate even amongst Catholics

[thorny steeple]

Baby girls were buried alive before the origin of Islam

[heady tapir]

wtf

forr real ?

[thorny steeple]

Yeah i have read in many books ..

[coral belfry]

yes and that isnt because of the religion it was because of something else
and that thing is status

[thorny steeple]

That's true. Some Arab tribes practiced this crime

[heady tapir]

that's just extremely imoral

[thorny steeple]

Fear of poverty? Ashamed of having girls?

[coral belfry]

yep

[thorny steeple]

Damn

[heady tapir]

i dont belong to any religion

[manic juniper]

Why

[heady tapir]

idk it just my felling

[thorny steeple]

It was because they weren't educated enough .. and they see girls as impure creature thats why..

[thorny steeple]

Yep

[heady tapir]

a god just be a good example to follow, its not REAL i have not seen a GOD before

its just our mind imege

image

[manic juniper]

But he did

[heady tapir]

so what it relevant about religion ?

[formal pilot]

@thorny steeple

[thorny steeple]

Kukumber 😭😭😭

[heady tapir]

anyways a person has their opinion but im different

and ?

anyways

okay

[thorny steeple]

What make u think that God doesn't exist

Ain't you saying the same thing? I am confused now

[manic juniper]

God of the gaps fallacy

[thorny steeple]

How can be u so sure

[heady tapir]

im not racist anyone im respect their religion

[thorny steeple]

Human minds are limited... we cann't figure out some divine being

[formal pilot]

No major religion mentioned Utahraptor

And it affected my deeply

[manic juniper]

You don't know about American creationism, don't you

[thorny steeple]

Lmao

[formal pilot]

I don't even know what it means

[heady tapir]

im abuse god but im just think he not real

[thorny steeple]

Those reject evolution

[formal pilot]

You're the god

[heady tapir]

yah just i can write my lifestories by my way

[manic juniper]

They do, but they also believe that non-avian dinosaur coexisted with Noah

[thorny steeple]

You just think 😭

[manic juniper]

As for why they couldn't get to the ark, that idk. They have dumb excuses for everything

[formal pilot]

Unless you're a woman

[heady tapir]

a man with a dik 🙂

[thorny steeple]

😠

[formal pilot]

Send evidence, like bank account details

[manic juniper]

It's a Christian belief where evolution didn't happen, God created all the species (labelled as "kinds"). Non-avian dinosaurs are featured too, and they think they coexisted with the first humans

I'm pretty sure they mention Allosaurus, Utahraptor and more

I don't know what's their excuse for not getting to the ark but they have an "explanation" for everything

That's just semantics then, I can call people who play The Sims 3 "gods" because they have full control over their games. Words have a meaning for a reason

Wrong how? I said "it's A Christian belief" sanctified crap of Judas, read twice before replying

[thorny steeple]

It seems closer to monotheism

[thorny steeple]

that's in the divine commedy by dante

aladdin tf did u tagged me in😭

[manic juniper]

Creationists don't believe in evolution, none of them does. It's against the whole point of calling themselves creationists

[uncut tiger]

i believe in evolution

[heady tapir]

if i meet you in real life will you punch me right when im say that right ?

[manic juniper]

"I heard some Muslims are atheist"
???

Typa shi

[heady tapir]

+1

[formal pilot]

Sounds pretty based, my biology professor was muslim, he never mixed religion with the subject.

One day I asked him about is there any scenario where evolution and religion go along, he said every major religion says that when humans arrived at earth, everything was already created, if you look at the evolution, when homo sapiens appeared, everything was already created

[formal pilot]

Aren't you non baptized christian

[manic juniper]

Yes, in their case fossil evidence is just evidence of things existing in the past, and they coexisted with humans. Do they think we met Opabinia?

[versed edge]

How did evolution occur in such a short time span then?

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/halo-the-endless-opabinia-cambrian-343industries-gif-26876739

[formal pilot]

Gtg

[versed edge]

Is one of the main things in creationists being the world is only a few thousand years old?

[uncut tiger]

no it isnt

[heady tapir]

but itsfrom Big bang Explosion ?

[manic juniper]

I was talking about creationists, please read twice before barging into a discussion you aren't even part of

[manic juniper]

Yes those are Young Earth Creationists, there are other types

I literally described what creationism was about

[thorny steeple]

God’s will shall be done ☺️

Amen

[versed edge]

I thought that is what was in the bible, but I don't know that much. Thanks.

[heady tapir]

The Earth was formed as a result of the Big Bang explosion

[coral belfry]

its called the big bang "theory" for a reason tho
but it can be false or true

[manic juniper]

It's described as such, but not all Christians take it literally. Most interpret it in a metaphorical way now

[high raven]

That's what big Pharma would like you to believe

[manic juniper]

When tf did humans coexist with non-avian dinosaurs?

[high raven]

Jurassic park

[manic juniper]

It's not Christianity, it's just a fringe group in USA

[uncut tiger]

isnt the big bang in islam too

[manic juniper]

They call themselves Young Earth Creationists

[coral belfry]

maybe
there is something in the Quran i remember that is similar to this
wait

[manic juniper]

I'm a dinosaur nationalist

[high raven]

No, there are verses that might be interpreted as such though

[heady tapir]

so can you explain about existent another planet ?

[versed edge]

Reminds me of my ex. He would change the goalposts whenever he was wrong.

[manic juniper]

It's in the Genesis

[heady tapir]

is god creat them too ?

[high raven]

😭

[thorny steeple]

Yes

[heady tapir]

i got it

[thorny steeple]

me no christian, me no baptized, me burn in hell

[heady tapir]

no hell no heaven my thinks

[thorny steeple]

yeah same, we all gonna be worm's food

[manic juniper]

It's not a big deal, I heard there are still ethernet cables down there

[thorny steeple]

The creation story can be compatible with the Big Bang guided by god

[heady tapir]

sir i said i got it

[thorny steeple]

imma enjoy my holiday then

[heady tapir]

i'm respect your religion

[thorny steeple]

Did I say the opposite? No

[thorny steeple]

I do respect yours too ☺️

[heady tapir]

anyways maybe her opinion

[thorny steeple]

I don't know

I like atheists

[heady tapir]

hope yall doing well

im gotta sleep now

[formal pilot]

ti piacciono gli uomini, that's why you'll go to hell

[fresh flower]

Omg hi cuties 🤭👉🏻👈🏻

[manic juniper]

I know, it's the first book of the Bible

The Bible itself isn't really a book, it's a collection of canonical books. As for what the canon is that depends on the sect

He says that the female comes from Adam later on, and that snakes could talk

No, I was talking about creationism, ask any creationist and they will agree with how I described them

Yeah because it's a whole ass book, it's not just the first page

https://mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0103.htm#1

Eve has a conversation with a snake with limbs
God also punished the snake by forcing his kind to crawl. Except it's not true, because there are still snakes with legs

So what happened? Did he forget to make all snakes legless? Lol

It's not defamation, and it's not about all Christians. I literally talked about YEC

https://ncse.ngo/creationist-websites
Choose whichever you like, these are their sites, they all deny evolution and promote creationism. How is that offensive? I described their beliefs

[fresh flower]

I'm assuming you made it clear that you're not interested in that?

There are IELTS and Cambridge exams online

They're not like the real thing but close enough

Yes

Their feelings won't disappear just because you say no

You gotta leave it at that

They are, there are old IELTS and Cambridge exam versions online

You can do them, you just have to google and you'll find them

If you're talking about a simple test then that exists too, they're just not comprehensive enough to accurately rate your level of proficiency

Yes

They take a while to get done tho

[languid stone]

you can evaluate your reading and listening using IELTS mocks online, but for writing, you can try writing an essay within a time constraint and get it evaluated by either AI (which is often more strict) or a teacher from this server. and for speaking, you have to have a conversation with a professional where they'd ask you questions about some familiar or unfamiliar topics to test your fluency

[winter echo]

Hello

[gritty thicket]

Who do i contact about getting a server unmute?

I got muted in the flat earth vc and the didnt unmute me before banning me

[mystic bay]

The pope

[static pivot]

Im here

[verbal abyss]

That feeling when TEH is about to reach 300k

We are the greatest

[umbral sun]

It's hard to get a friend here 🤧😭

[high raven]

It's a good thing that you're willing to try and stay as friends but you need to keep this #🧠｜serious-chat message in mind

[verbal abyss]

You joined today

Are you kidding

[umbral sun]

Yh 😭🤧

[rich ice]

Hi ,Good to see u. would u it be nice for u to tell me what u focus on when u re learning English.

I hope we would be in common. Good luck

[thorny steeple]

The three sites that President Trump said were hit on Saturday night included Iran’s two major uranium enrichment centers — the under-mountain facility at Fordow and the larger enrichment plant at Natanz, which Israel struck several days ago with smaller weapons. The third site, near the ancient city of Isfahan, is where Iran is believed to keep its near-bomb-grade enriched uranium, which inspectors saw just two weeks ago. If those areas were destroyed, it would set back the Iranian program by years, unless it has yet- undetected parallel facilities.

[quasi needle]

iran has been a year from nukes since 1995

it’s also crazy how iranian nukes is fearmongered more than north korea

[thorny steeple]

are you from iran?

[quasi needle]

what

netanyahu has been saying iran is a year from nukes since 1995

[thorny steeple]

radiations are going to spread

[quasi needle]

he might want to get a bit better at his predictions

[thorny steeple]

it will be difficult for civillians their will be an immense damage

[quasi needle]

who literally has policy to nuke america if kim jong un dies mysteriously

[quasi needle]

idk what this has to do with what i said

[thorny steeple]

ISrael also has nukes

which is dangeorus than Iran having nukes

[quasi needle]

yes

i agree

the samson option

[thorny steeple]

If Iran will have nuke then whole gulf will likely to have nukes

they will want to build their own nukes

[quasi needle]

saudi arabia has condemned israel and by extension the US

things are likely to get tense

[thorny steeple]

Trump says US forces have attacked Iran
The president says in a social media post that the US has conducted “very successful” strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities at Fordow, Natanz, and Isfahan and that all planes are now out of Iranian airspace.

“We have completed our very successful attack on the three Nuclear sites in Iran, including Fordow, Natanz, and Esfahan. All planes are now outside of Iran air space,” Trump said in a post on Truth Social.

“A full payload of BOMBS was dropped on the primary site, Fordow. All planes are safely on their way home. Congratulations to our great American Warriors. There is not another military in the World that could have done this. NOW IS THE TIME FOR PEACE! Thank you for your attention to this matter.”

[quasi needle]

punch someone in the face then ask for them to not punch back

he really is fucking stupid huh

i don’t think war in the region is the best thing they can hope for

[thorny steeple]

Iran will hit US bases now

or do immense bombardment

[quasi needle]

0 wars is always better than 1

[formal pilot]

Are there any radiation leaks, will i die?

[quasi needle]

it will very likely not be a huge deal

it’ll probably be localised if anything

but we cant be sure

[prisma cipher]

I would be least worried about the radiation level now. Iran may cease to exist in the form we are accustomed to. It all depends on Trump.

No one care about uranium isotope.

[thorny steeple]

No radioactive material at the targeted sites: Iranian state media
IRNA news agency quotes an official with the country’s public broadcaster as saying: “There are no materials in these three nuclear sites that cause radiation.”

The comment suggests that Iranian authorities may have removed enriched uranium from the facilities before they were bombed.

[prisma cipher]

It not because they make nukes. It was matter of time when Israel attack them. He do it because Iran is in weak position, their force in Syria dissipated. Best chance for Iran was make nuke bomb, like North Korea. They just don't touch you when you have nukes.

I don't say it one good and one bad, I say it in perspective of Iran

You kill me your stupidity

[pastel ruin]

The US entered, expect countries like China, North Korea, Russia, and more, to enter too.

[prisma cipher]

Blocked

Don't waste time on stupid

Like it no way you understand further explanation if you don't understand base

[high raven]

Can anyone even blame China at this point if they invade Taiwan

They'd be doing nothing wrong according to Western logic

[prisma cipher]

Yes they do, also no one really care

Time when everyone care what us or Europe say almost over.

[high raven]

I think that's a great thing

[prisma cipher]

We just used to care about it but they can't do anything about it, they just can say we don't like you, you bad.

[quasi needle]

USA national intelligence director came out and said no intelligence points towards iran actually wanting nukes

trump said his OWN national intelligence director was lying and ordered the strikes

[prisma cipher]

It way less stability world, but with new opportunity for bunch of countries

[pastel ruin]

The Western logic is screwed up.

[quasi needle]

no

china does NOT care

[pastel ruin]

They say 1 thing, do the other. Bunch of hypocrites.

[quasi needle]

china has absolutely no interests

they’ll come out with a nothing burger condemnation

[high raven]

China won't do anything, why enter war when you're winning in peace

[pastel ruin]

They do. In fact, they have spoken out against this already and back Asian countries with their own weapons etc.

[quasi needle]

iran is 0% of any interest to china

[pastel ruin]

It's not about Iran only.

[quasi needle]

again a nothing burger condemnation will be enough

to presume china joining the war is naive

[pastel ruin]

You have countries like Pakistan, Russia, Algeria, North Korea speaking in their meeting yesterday.

[quasi needle]

russia has their hands tied

[pastel ruin]

And China got contacts with these too.

[quasi needle]

a russian minister said they’re extremely close to recession

[quasi needle]

let’s not fear monger bro

let’s be realistic

[pastel ruin]

If the US enters in which they have, expect other countries to enter in by time. Be realistic, it won't slide.

Nuclear weapons are being used as an excuse for decade.

[quasi needle]

what even is your reasoning

[pastel ruin]

Trump accused Obama for it back in 2011 too.

[manic juniper]

Why would any country risk it for Iran

[quasi needle]

chinese opposition to the us century has literally NOTHING to do with the iran war

[high raven]

China's only interest is China, while the US is burning bridges left, right and center, China is winning in every field, they have no reason to enter or support a war

[quasi needle]

this is just baseless fearmongering

[pastel ruin]

Do your research and you'd know. It's on Twitter.

Where you see his tweets about Obama.

[quasi needle]

he’s right here

[pastel ruin]

A hypocrite.

[quasi needle]

netanyahu has been saying iran is a year from nukes for 30 years now

[pastel ruin]

Yeah, they are using lies here.

[thorny steeple]

For China iran has important minerals, they have signed deeal they will be nvesting money there, Iran is important for China

China is investing at their ports

[quasi needle]

resources are nothing for war

you’re mistaking the chinese government for naive idiots

[pastel ruin]

Countries like North Korea, Russia, China, Pakistan etc? You do realize China, Russia and Iran are a trio, right? Moment you harm Iran, you are indirectly sending the others a message.

It is provocative.

[thorny steeple]

There is $400bn deal that Iran have signed with China, THeir is BRI where Iran is becoming part too

[quasi needle]

ur forgetting russia is on the verge of economic collapse and are doing miserably in ukraine

ur forgetting china isn’t ran by idiots

[manic juniper]

Is this true or just a meme

[thorny steeple]

there is a whole block China, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, against the western hegemony, they will likely to support iran in one way or another.

[pastel ruin]

China, Russia and Iran are a trio. China sits back and backs up other countries with their weapons being tested. Let's not act like they don't care for their power either. You harm 1, it sends a message.

[pastel ruin]

Yeah, that's what I am saying. They will definitely support.

[high raven]

No, it's sadly true

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cwyx5yw8y28o

[manic juniper]

Message to who? All of these countries except Iran already have nuclear weapons

[thorny steeple]

there are stikes on port, there is whole nexus against west, iran is important player they will support iran

[pastel ruin]

Anyway, no reason to discuss here on Discord tbh. I guess some haven't done all that research anyway.

[quasi needle]

you see so misinformed as to how international relations work

[manic juniper]

They delivered their message later than Internet Explorer

[quasi needle]

you’re assuming china will join because the us did

like what does that even mean

[thorny steeple]

there is nothing like that, there is no video of That, this is fake news by ISraeli and Indian media, no credible sources conform this

[pastel ruin]

Was talking about the trio Iran, China and Russia got. Anyway, I'll leave it as it is. The US fumbled badly today by entering in.

[quasi needle]

this “trio” means literally nothing

[manic juniper]

L, still won't believe it isn't a simulation

[quasi needle]

it’s not nato it means jack

no core interests are threatened

china doesn’t join wars because it gives an opportunity to fight the usa that’s dumb as hell

[manic juniper]

USA would help Israel even if Israel bombed Washington, no one found out anything today

[high raven]

I understand what you're saying but there's no reason for China to enter war when they're winning in peace, the US and the actions of their current regime has left a massive power vacuum that China is now filling, and has been filling for a while now

[thorny steeple]

no they are saying we will support iran in any manner, we will give them diplomatic support, aid and if needed we will do more, but we will not jump militarily in this war.

[high raven]

They just aren't that silly

[pastel ruin]

This is common sense if you actually knew your stuff, but clearly you don't. You don't even know the hypocrital nature of Trump even. Guy was talking about Obama using Iran as an excuse to be a president back on Twitter in 2011 and didn't want to peaceful negotiations etc, yet here we are, him going in himself.

Ironic.

[quasi needle]

trump didn’t run on iran so this analogy is pointless

for the top 2

[thorny steeple]

nope we will support them

but not ofc jumping in to war

[pastel ruin]

People thinking support won't come is just laughable.

[quasi needle]

you have literally no reasoning

[pastel ruin]

Anyway, good night folks.

[quasi needle]

others join because the usa did! why? uhhh… because theyre economic allies!

[manic juniper]

Yeah no shit more weapons will be sold, everyone knew this

[quasi needle]

that’s not how diplomacy works

[manic juniper]

Simply no one else will join the war

[pastel ruin]

Yeah, that's what I sent above. It's hilarious. The hypocrisy.

[quasi needle]

you’re just fearmongering a nothing burger

[high raven]

The only ones who will be joining the war will be EU countries since more or less all of them do the US bidding

[thorny steeple]

French Analyst Alleges Pakistani and Chinese Role in Assisting Iran’s Air Defense Recovery Post-Israeli Strikes
Like this

[quasi needle]

i wouldn’t say that

even here it’s being condemned

[manic juniper]

Can't wait for 30 millions refugees

[thorny steeple]

they want to desotry anti west nexus thats all, Iran is having its nuclear program from 1990s

[quasi needle]

even the uk government has been cutting israel aid

and sanctioning israeli ministers

[pastel ruin]

In your dreams. I'm born in Norway and I know damn well this country won't do shit nor even join. Most people here are waking up.

[turbid dome]

That’s more symbolic though

[quasi needle]

also bear in mind europe joined US wars because the US was actually a realistic ally of them

trump is just an antagonistic fuckup for EU-US relations

[manic juniper]

Lebanese living in Norway tells that to a Lebanese living in Norway

[turbid dome]

He’s just more honest than the rest of US leaders

[quasi needle]

at the very least symbolic to the degree that europe is moving away from being america’s lap dog

[turbid dome]

We’ve always treated the EU as a puppet

[quasi needle]

in what way

[pastel ruin]

Yeah, I was listening to the speech given by the higher ups from Russia, Algeria, North Korea and all. Think the channel name was WLA.

[turbid dome]

A bit yeah

[high raven]

😭😭😭

[pastel ruin]

You're Lebanese?

[manic juniper]

No, she is

[turbid dome]

Every other US leader will pretend to care about Europe whereas Trump will just say “increase that military spending”

[pastel ruin]

If she is, then it's embarrassing that she thinks countries like Norway would do shit.

[manic juniper]

Trump is a good broken clock when it comes to this

[pastel ruin]

Norway is a small country that was afraid even back in WW2.

[manic juniper]

He simply wants us to buy more American weapons

[turbid dome]

Foreign policy is uni party

[turbid dome]

Yeah exactly

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/11/obama-and-bush-also-pressed-nato-allies-to-spend-more-on-defense.html

obama and bush just did the same thing in a more diplomatic way, the difference is Trump is rude

[quasi needle]

other US leaders did have a semblance of care for EU relations given europe in one way or another accounts for a third of the US’ economy

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dunhammer

2012 to 2014

[turbid dome]

Nah they were just better at managing PR, at the end of the day it’s about a trading partner they can make buy weapons

[turbid dome]

Least cucked EU country

[manic juniper]

Denmark, Cucked Certification™ since Gladio times

[turbid dome]

True

UK left the EU but trying to compete for most cucked by moving RAF squadrons to the Middle East a few days ago

[quasi needle]

??? “nah” -> provided things they cared about

europe accounts for a third of the US’ gdp through interests, investments and trade; previous presidents cared FOR this reason

trump illsightedly causing the chinese century is not being honest

[manic juniper]

Is there mandatory conscription in Norway

[quasi needle]

it’s being stupid

[manic juniper]

If no, why is that

[turbid dome]

Nah they don’t care about relations, relations in geopolitics exist purely in an aligned interests way. It’s not like there’s any friendly relationship to be managed, just being able to be consistently aligned in interests

[quasi needle]

are you real

why would they not care about relations with their biggest trading partner

what makes you believe that

you know trade comes from relations

or do you believe it’s mutually exclusive

[high raven]

They sent troops to Iraq, they dropped the most bombs during the intervention in Libya but sure yes, they'll say no when the US invokes article 5 after their bases get targeted. I'm sure all the F-35's will stay stationed here

[quasi needle]

oh yeah we fucking hate you, here’s a 50% tariff, hope you continue investing in us

[high raven]

I'm sure the EU won't fall in line as per usual when the US calls for it

[turbid dome]

I’m saying relations aren’t like a friendship, it’s pure analysis of cost-benefits. Trump is just setting aside the pretense that the US cares about being nice to Europe. The EU will trade with the US because they are reliant on it, and the Us will trade with Europe for the same reason. Trump can be as mean as he wants and it doesn’t matter.

[turbid dome]

Countries don’t care about feelings so they’re really only caring about the tariff part of that

[quasi needle]

where does the disagreement come from

what was he ever being honest about

he has said nothing about europe being a dog

all he does is cry about exacerbated trade deficits

[turbid dome]

NATO and making the EU pay more

[pastel ruin]

Vi får se hva som skjer videre, men jeg er ganske sikker på at det som skjer i Palestina, Lebanon, Yemen, etc, og nå i Iran (som har militære kontakter), kommer til å få andre land inn eventuelt over tid. Fordi det kommer ikke til å stoppe med bare Iran. La oss være ærlige, de vil ikke at Muslimske land skal bli mektige generelt. Land som har atomvåpen, er land de mest sannsynligvis kommer til å gå etter senere. Det vil automatisk skape trussel uansett hvilken retning vi ser det fra, dette er mye verre enn 2003. Så ja, etter det som har nettopp skjedd 1 time siden, ting kommer til å bli verre. Vi får se uansett. Sent her, hvorfor er du fortsatt våken?!

[turbid dome]

That’s it, he’s a liar but he sometimes says the quiet part out loud

[quasi needle]

what

you can’t be honest about something that’s opinionated

there’s no truth behind nato statements aside from the countries that are actually paying sub 2%

which is like 5 of them

[turbid dome]

But the point is for NATO to buy Us weapons and he’s much more obvious about it

I’m not talking about all his statements, I’m talking about his general attitudes

[quasi needle]

again this has nothing to do with trump being more “honest” than other presidents

if he was being “honest” about wanting to milk europe for the money then he wouldn’t make the conditions even better for china to sweep over

[turbid dome]

If Trump says America first everyone says “what about building alliances” when every president has always put America first, that’s what I’m talking about

[turbid dome]

Because he’s a buffoon so he’s thinking short term

[quasi needle]

you do know only like 3 countries in the EU trade more with the US than they do with china now

when in the 2000s it was more like the polar opposite

[turbid dome]

Yeah but the US possesses a significant market share still

[quasi needle]

but this has been decreasing steadily

and this is more due to exports than imports

[turbid dome]

I’m not saying he’s doing the right thing or that America will continue to be dominant, but that his extortion is more open and hence “honest”

[manic juniper]

Love Trump for his potential of killing off the European right, but seems like he didn't do enough

[turbid dome]

That’s all I’m saying lol

[quasi needle]

no previous presidents have been for extortion

that argument can’t even be made europe has a $160bn surplus

[turbid dome]

Obama and bush

[turbid dome]

They talked about nato spending increases

[quasi needle]

if anything the US wanting more trade with europe is because they’re the ones on the back foot

[high raven]

Jeg er enig med deg, men hvis andre land blir med, så kommer europeiske land også til å hoppe inn. Uansett hvor mye de snakker, så har de ikke ryggrad og står aldri opp for det som er rett når det virkelig gjelder. Jeg våkna sent, så jeg legger meg snart. Hva med deg?

[turbid dome]

I’m not talking trade deficit, you brought that up

[high raven]

By the way, you're Lebanese too?😭

[quasi needle]

how does nato have anything to do with extortion???????

[manic juniper]

He's Norwegian of Lebanese descent

[quasi needle]

“yo guys you need to pay the amount that’s in the rules” -> extortion

???

[turbid dome]

Countries increasing military expenditures leads to US arms manufacturers profiting

That’s the point

[quasi needle]

that’s not extortion

[high raven]

I usually just ask "Where are you really from"

[quasi needle]

it’s still following the rules they agreed to

[lofty hound]

serious question, why bumperfish leave this server?

[turbid dome]

Following rules doesn’t exclude something from being extortion, the Us used Europe’s weakened state post ww2 to create EU states reliant on US interests

[manic juniper]

Could be my fault

[pastel ruin]

Jeg er enig med at våre land sitter der og bare snakker. Land som Egypt som sliter med korrupsjon, Saudi, tror ikke engang jeg trenger å si mye 😂. Det er trist å se uansett. Men ja, jeg tror verden trenger en krig for hvis ingen kommer inn nå, så vil de bli tvunget til å komme inn senere. Etter det som har skjedd Iran, jeg er ganske sikker at det vil bare spre. Det handler om å holde makt her. Så enten nå eller aldri, men til syvende sist, tiden kommer til å komme snart. Får håpe for det beste, men vi lever i en tid hvor våre våpner er så farlige at hvis vi vil, vi kan ende hele verden. Men samtidig, hvis Israhell kontrollerer USA og stopper ikke med det de gjør, hvilken andre valg har man? Triste tider uansett...

[pastel ruin]

Yeah, originally Lebanese. Mother was born here in Norway, father moved from the US to Norway to marry her and voila, I'm born. 😅

[quasi needle]

you’re confusing mutual interest with coercion

american european expansion was to oppose soviet expansion

not to create reliant states

[pastel ruin]

Of course we all do. Many Arabs here anyway, so we never refer to ourselves as "Norsk".

[quasi needle]

50-70s america HAAAAAATEDDDD the ussr

[turbid dome]

The US didn’t fund West Europe’s economy out of generosity. The US wanted to use Europe as the battlefield against the USSR and so European states served as the proxy, Europe could defend itself against the USSR, it’s got a good industrial base and population and is quite large. The reason the US was involved despite having an ocean between the two superpowers was because it wished to loot the USSR’s resources (see privatization under Boris Yeltsin)

[manic juniper]

Any assets that the USSR couldn't take were good assets

[quasi needle]

this is still not coercion

[turbid dome]

Now the reason NATO persists after the USSR fell is so America and Europe can attempt to privatize further industries to be sold off to them

[quasi needle]

it’s still a very mutual relationship

it can be said europe benefits more anyways

[turbid dome]

Well yeah, the benefits both sides get doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative

[quasi needle]

it’s still not exploitative

it’s mutual

[turbid dome]

How is NATO not exploiting some countries. Some, like the Baltics and all that get great benefit, others in the west of Europe do not.

[quasi needle]

how is having another country subsidy like half your defence not a benefit

shove some american bases on your land and you’re good to go

[hallow sable]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-lmao-my-reaction-to-that-information-my-reaction-to-that-information-meme-gif-26887752

[quasi needle]

fun fact 1/5 of the F35 is manufactured by british companies and 75% by others

[manic juniper]

It's a dangerous thing to do, especially with USA

[turbid dome]

You do realize these are a threat right? Like we don’t need military bases to have a presence

[quasi needle]

a threat? what?

[turbid dome]

We have almost 35,000 troops in Germany right now, that’s more than mutual cooperation

[quasi needle]

okay then boss what do those 35,000 troops do in america’s interest that extort europe

[turbid dome]

Remind them there’s hard power the US possesses too

[quasi needle]

it’s 2025 it’s not nazi germany and that holds no meaning what so ever to a country that has zero interests to attack america

and again that’s STILL not extortion that’s just power projecting

[turbid dome]

Projecting power on its allies for what reason?

[quasi needle]

projecting power on… hear me out… NOT its allies but its ENEMIES

hold my hand when i say this

[high raven]

Ooh very interesting, glad to meet another "norsk" in this server

[turbid dome]

Do you think Germany is at risk of being attacked?

[quasi needle]

you don’t put military bases on your enemy’s land when projecting power to them

[pastel ruin]

[quasi needle]

do you honestly think all military bases should be in like poland and israel because they’re next door to the US’ enemies

[turbid dome]

No but do you think 35,000 troops is just an innocent “allies helping out” number?

[pastel ruin]

Pleier ikke å snakke så mye her på Discord. Jeg kom innom i dag pga klarte ikke å sove. 😅

[turbid dome]

There’s like less than 1/3 of that in Poland

If I were projecting power against Americas Enemies I would put more in poland

[quasi needle]

tell me which one is more globalist

[turbid dome]

Not Germany

[quasi needle]

germany or poland

[turbid dome]

Germany is, but that doesn’t have to do with “friendly power projection”

[quasi needle]

yes it literally does

there’s no hidden meaning

it’s literally because

1. germany allows it
2. power projection to russia

[turbid dome]

But again why Germany if you’re projecting to Russia

[quasi needle]

fun fact approximately 25,000 of these are being trained in germany

[turbid dome]

I wonder why

[quasi needle]

because it’s literally one of the strongest allies

do you propose czech?

[turbid dome]

That will only be affected after the Eastern European meat shield runs out

[high raven]

Samme her, jeg har vanligvis ikke energi til det etter jobb, men jeg jobber ikke neste uke så jeg er fortsatt våken

[quasi needle]

what other country would be better

poland is so anti foreign military

maybe slot a base next to kyiv?

[turbid dome]

If it was actually about friendly power projection against Russia I would choose Türkiye, Poland, the Baltics, Finland

[quasi needle]

why not put a base next to moscow

[pastel ruin]

Aha skjønner den følelsen godt. Vi reiser til Spania neste uke, så det blir mye pakking i det siste. 😅

[turbid dome]

Because they wouldn’t accept it

[quasi needle]

oh we’re almost getting there

[turbid dome]

I wonder why Germany or France or any of these other countries got a ton of US military presence, they certainly weren’t severely weakened and took the troops in exchange for development aid

[quasi needle]

sorry was poland weakened 2 thirds less than germany

hold on

hold on to my hand when i mention the iron curtain and its effects on anti western sentiment

[turbid dome]

Well that would be because it was in the USSR’s power block as a puppet and so it maintained a distance from western interests until recently

[quasi needle]

we’re SO close

you’re almost getting it

[sick raft]

trump is so dumb

[quasi needle]

what rationale would they have to moving probably their largest training bases in europe to a country next door because it happens to be closer to russia

[sick raft]

oh my actual god

[quasi needle]

while also being a country that hates foreign militaries

[sick raft]

ts trump dude is another liberal hegemon freak ahh not even doing what he should be doing 😹

[quasi needle]

turkey also being extremely mid on western affairs

[sick raft]

hot diggity dog a realist

[quasi needle]

a love hate relationship there

and finland until literally like 2 years ago being a neutral state not accepting any side

[sick raft]

thank god theyre in nato now

[quasi needle]

i think the probability chart points to germany being the best place to project power to the USSR and happens to be the best place post USSR because…. its all already there…

[sick raft]

wym what r u talking abt rn

nato expansionism?

[quasi needle]

martin is saying the US extorts europe for defence and i say it’s mutual and europe even comes out on top since their defence is just paid and bought for

[sick raft]

its definitely mutual

Europe is an incredibly important place for the US

[turbid dome]

I even said those two things aren’t exclusive.

[sick raft]

by far the most strategically important location for the US, esp. western europe

and american liberal hegemony has led to tremendous benefits for europe & the US

militarily & other things 2

[turbid dome]

The US would prefer to fight Russia in Poland then on US soil, it’s exploitative because it’s a meat shield

[sick raft]

this is no doubt true.

but the diction of meat shield might be a too far bc sure its in their self-interest, but mutual benefits come from it too

[quasi needle]

we all very well know russia won’t be fighting the us purely because of the deterrence power projection provides

[sick raft]

Ultimately the U.S. benefits more from it though

[quasi needle]

russia is being humbled JUST from nato providing weapons

let alone them actually fighting themselves

[sick raft]

russia is still a great power

itll be able to continue this war for very long

unless theres domestic tensions or sm like that

[turbid dome]

The same deterrence could be provided if the whole EU also functioned as a NATO article 5, the difference is the US maintains NATO to boost weapon manufacturer profit margins and privatize resources

[quasi needle]

as of today a russian minister confirmed they’re crossing into recession

[sick raft]

but why would that mean they would not continue the war?

[quasi needle]

it wouldn’t but it’s an indicator to further slow down

[sick raft]

the war is imperative. and i dont think they want to continue, but they arent going to stop because of a decrease in their economy

Their national power is still incredible

relative to the conflict ofc

[quasi needle]

wdym by that

[sick raft]

it is critical in russias self-interest to win the war, or get something out of it. they are going to continue, thats all, regardless of what happens

[quasi needle]

100 year war take 2

[sick raft]

Ofc bumps here and there but ultimately this war will be decided in the battlefield

the ukrainians are, as well, and a lot of european officials staunch in their conviction to not let russia win or get stuff from diplomacy

[quasi needle]

jts actually insane how many russians have died compared to ukranian soldiers

[sick raft]

vice versa, similarly

personally its a rlly tricky situation

I was watching a vid by john mearsheimer and he was talking abt how ukraine should accept russias proposals

[quasi needle]

do you see the news earlier

putin said “ukraine is ours” and threatened nukes (for the 4000th time) in a statement earlier

[sick raft]

i did

[sick raft]

putin is a degenerate gng

[quasi needle]

from “we will liberate ukraine from nazis” to the (everyone knew) “we want to conquer ukraine”

[high raven]

I just wish the support offered was better

[sick raft]

the chance of russia using nukes is very low but its not 0

[quasi needle]

the thing is it’s not like the US

[sick raft]

great powers will go to great lengths for their survival or interest if theyre backed in the corner

[quasi needle]

in russia the president has no direct control over nukes

[sick raft]

rhetoric is irrelevant

[quasi needle]

the generals are the only ones who can order it

[sick raft]

regardless, id say my point stands

[sick raft]

^

Quite unlikely but still a possibility

[quasi needle]

realistically they’ll likely end ceding a province here and there

[sick raft]

russia?

[quasi needle]

ukraine

[sick raft]

or ukraine

[quasi needle]

i doubt it’ll last much lojger

[sick raft]

nah russia isnt gonna accept that

their terms are clear and they arent gonna do all this fighting jst to have a province or 2

[quasi needle]

by that i mean the eastern provinces and crimes

the line has BARELY moved for 2 years

[sick raft]

no. russia wants all the territory it controls & claims last i checked the proposal. i dont think thats gonna change

[quasi needle]

those provinces i mentioned ARE the ones it claims

it claims the eastern provinces and crimea

[sick raft]

they have 1/5th of ukraine and theyre gonna keep going

[quasi needle]

i wouldn’t put it like that

[sick raft]

unless the ukrainians accept russias terms, which they wont obviously

[quasi needle]

they haven’t moved forwards properly for over a year

[sick raft]

even if that is true, they arent going to stop

[quasi needle]

not soon

but eventually they’ll have to

once you enter a recession it’s not the easiest thing to leave

and it only gets worse

[sick raft]

like i said earlier, their national power is great

This war is immensely critical and unless theres some immense domestic tensions the Russian state isnt gonna stop what its doing

[quasi needle]

half their military is rusted and their gdp is a third of germany’s

[sick raft]

it is in their self-interest to not stop

[sick raft]

their military is still powerful

[quasi needle]

like a year after the war started they had to give soldiers cardboard armour

[sick raft]

gdp is important to national power ofc but russia, weirdly, is an anomaly bc of how much military power it has relative to other factors

[quasi needle]

relative to ukraine they’re still doing miserably

[sick raft]

regardless, my main point is that the russianss are gonna keep going

[quasi needle]

not for too long

[sick raft]

Whether theyre doing miserably or not

[quasi needle]

morale IS low

[sick raft]

No. I disagree. they are going to keep going

[sick raft]

in international relations, im a structural offensive realist, so idrc abt morale and dont view it as that important in the grand scheme of things

[manic juniper]

Yes they will keep going forever until Russia is completely exhausted and unable to fight

[sick raft]

As its prob obvious i jst care about the power dynamics and i jst dont think russia is going to stop bc

1. it still has great national power
2. it is critically in their self-interest

[quasi needle]

in the end Nothing Ever Happens

maybe if russia throws another 400,000 untrained teenagers they’ll make a breakthrough

[manic juniper]

This is how they have always been and after they put those claimed regions in their Constitution that's enough to have them fight as long as they can

[sick raft]

as i mentioned earlier, if a great power is cornered, it is is the case they might resort to certain measures, such as nuclear weapons

[sick raft]

the ukrainains will also keep going ofc, no doubt

Like I said, this war will be decided by the battlefield -- not diplomacy.

[manic juniper]

Because they know Russia

[sick raft]

untrustable, ofc.

[manic juniper]

It'll be the same as the Winter War, diplomacy happens only after both countries are beyond exhausted

[sick raft]

There is a really great reading on

the ukraine war

https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf
John Mearsheimer, Why the Ukraine Crisis is the Wests Fault, 2014

ignore the title (hes egregiously wrong abt it being the West fault)

[quasi needle]

idk but i think the greatest moment of the century would be if ukraine somehow got putin himself

[turbid dome]

Yup, Offensive realism is the only reality, Mearsheimer may not be someone I agree with often but this theory is absolutely correct

[sick raft]

But it has a rlly good realist perspective on why this war is occuring, and this is critical in figuring out how to stop it

[quasi needle]

i don’t care what it causes it’d be hilarious

[sick raft]

mearsheimer is an offensive structural realist!

[sick raft]

it would be, and i really hope ukraine comes out on top

It is in my hope and prayers, but the world does not run on hopes and prayers

[quasi needle]

almost started typing till i saw this 👀

[sick raft]

Thats why martinii and ii are realists

[quasi needle]

i just see it impossible to see either side achieve their goals

[sick raft]

You can examine his claims on why he thinks it is, but you like i probably also agree he is wrong abt saying its the west fault

[sick raft]

yeah this is a very tricky conflict

[quasi needle]

it’ll more likely than not end with semi ukranian concessions

[sick raft]

Unlike other conflicts, its figuring out what to even do is the hardest part

in other conflicts its the execution that always messes u up (middle east gng)

But idk if ukraine should keep going?? should it stop?? like its a cacophony

[quasi needle]

nato expansion halts in 2004 -> russia invades in 2014

i guess they were threatened by the SPEEDY expansion

[sick raft]

concessions 100%

[turbid dome]

It will end when Russia’s interests no longer align with war, in which case it will seek to end the war. When those interests no longer align I’m not sure, probably when there’s risk of increased unrest domestically

[sick raft]

consideration to nato expansionism by neoconservatists and imperia lliberals continued well into the 2010s

[sick raft]

but the fact is that its interests are fundamentally embedded in this war.

i agree, like i had also said, domestic tensions r rlly the only way

[turbid dome]

This is why Ukraine should give some major concessions now imo, might not be popular and definitely will get Zelenskyy killed but it’s the best bet. You either lose the land and more Ukrainians die or you lose the land but some survive

[sick raft]

But that seems unlikely atm

[quasi needle]

despite everything i refuse to call it expansion

[sick raft]

thats what mearsheimer also said (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c8_y64QpHQ)

[turbid dome]

Also true

[quasi needle]

people want to join because russia is such a backwater antagonist it’s not like the west is gobbling these countries up

[turbid dome]

Ahhh piers Morgan

[sick raft]

stupid ahh guy

[quasi needle]

😬

[sick raft]

but he provides some provoking counters

[quasi needle]

when he left good morning britain we all rejoiced

[sick raft]

tho mearsheimer beats his huzz ahh up

😹

idk who the irrelevant ian bremmer guy is tho

[turbid dome]

Then the US got him lmaoooo

[sick raft]

yk even joseph nye is on

mearsheimers side

[quasi needle]

well he fits their clown like media more than us

[turbid dome]

Fair

[quasi needle]

like fox news legally can’t be called a news company

they have to be called an ENTERTAINMENT company

[turbid dome]

Yeah

[sick raft]

and honestly i agree w this. im a realist but domestically im a liberal, and in some ways ia ppreciate liberalism and it hurts, personally, which is maybe wrong of me to say, to see these concessions

Bc it makes me furious seeing ukraine (russia is obviously morally at fault in this war and is an annoying state) needing to make concessions, but it seems like its the reality

[quasi needle]

no way the birds are already going off at 3:50am

[sick raft]

its the friction of ideas that drives our train forward

[sick raft]

morgan should be deported to fox news

[turbid dome]

Yeah exactly, it’s impossible for Ukraine to “win”

[sick raft]

cant stand his ass

[sick raft]

mhm

[turbid dome]

Like Ukraine is not regaining all of its territory

[sick raft]

they wont win, as sad it is to accept

[turbid dome]

Sorry to say, Crimea is going to be firmly Russia

[sick raft]

without doubt

[turbid dome]

Having aspirations to regain lost land is noble but it will only serve to get more Ukrainians killed

[sick raft]

OH MY FUCKING GOD

JOSEPH NYE DIED WHAT THE FUCK

😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[quasi needle]

taiwan can attest to that

[sick raft]

oh my god

the ir community is cooked

[turbid dome]

Like realistically ukraines allies (US and EU) need to announce they are willing to escalate and send even more weapons, and then have Ukraine approach the bargaining table with Russia emboldened, with the proposed escalation purely serving to win as good of a deal as possible

[quasi needle]

https://tenor.com/view/dick-cheney-vice-president-former-vp-vp-vp-dick-cheney-gif-14129460830822808192

[sick raft]

mhm

[turbid dome]

Silence

[sick raft]

rest in peace to the GOAT

😭 💔

[quasi needle]

never heard of this man 🥀

[sick raft]

study IR then you will 🥀

[turbid dome]

Are you an IR major?

[sick raft]

bro i need to tell my teacher this

[sick raft]

im in hs

[quasi needle]

i’m unfortunately not enrolling in another course

[turbid dome]

Oh ok

[sick raft]

im not gonna end up broke by doing politics in uni

[turbid dome]

Fair

[sick raft]

😹

[quasi needle]

i’m already nearing the rope doing 3 subjects

[sick raft]

but i do ib hl glo plo which is lit

[quasi needle]

ts pmo

[sick raft]

ur british right

[quasi needle]

yes

[sick raft]

ic ic ur school ends in july

or sm

[quasi needle]

depends on the year but this year it’s july yes

i just sat my last exam of the year yesterday

it was humbling to say the least

i did my GCSEs last year and i’m doing my GCEAS next year

[sick raft]

ohh

so ur the equivalent of gr 12

[quasi needle]

11th

finals are in our year 13 and i’m year 12

[sick raft]

ohh

Im in gr 11 too

[quasi needle]

but our last year of school is the same level as the first year of US university

[sick raft]

yr 13?

[quasi needle]

huh

we start school a year earlier

[sick raft]

is yr 13 the one equivalent to first yr american uni?

[quasi needle]

you have K-12 we have 0-13

[quasi needle]

roughly yes

[sick raft]

u have a year 0 😭

[quasi needle]

it’s called reception year but it’s the year before year 1

[sick raft]

oh mb ic

[quasi needle]

because you are:.. received… into the school system

it’s basically a get used to school year if that’s what kindergarten is

you learn your 5+5 and that’s about it

school officially ends in year 11 but you can enroll in a further 2 years in KS5/6th, college or an apprenticeship

[olive herald]

Pikachu

[quasi needle]

wdym at good level

[rocky coyote]

we're heading towards a turbulent time

QUICKEN THE COLLAPSE OF WESTERN IMPERIALISM CHAIRMAN TRUMP

[olive herald]

Grade 6-7 maybe

There is no calculus in there

[rocky coyote]

GCSE maths

[olive herald]

Is kind alike angles

[formal pilot]

Russia's attack on Ukraine is also justifiable by that logic, to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO russia has to take actions 🤡

@steep olive you safe?

Anyway, attacks on nuclear sites was inevitable

[rocky coyote]

worms for brains

[thorny steeple]

REAL SHIT

[rocky coyote]

lowkey i almost forgot where the 25 came from

[formal pilot]

Aren't they supposed to be anti US, anyway pakistan is doing great working closely with mericans and china both

[thorny steeple]

Pakistan starts ass licking after trump said "I love pakistan"

[thorny steeple]

Trump is an old hag on meth and schizophrenia with a bipolar garnish

[rocky coyote]

why did you suddenly mention taiwan

[formal pilot]

I completely agree

[thorny steeple]

He says two contradicting things on the same day and tries to justify them both

[formal pilot]

I'd count it as W, they're working with china and us both

[thorny steeple]

Media: "mr. Trump your intelligence agency says that Iran is nowhere near a nuclear bomb"

Trump: "my intelligence agency is wrong" 😭😭🙏

[formal pilot]

Meanwhile India's relation with the US is little bumpy and there's nothing to talk about China lol

[thorny steeple]

They aren't WORKING with USA
They are tryna work their way into it's booty,just like every arab country who hates it

[thorny steeple]

Real

Fun fact

USA is on the Human Rights watch list for the last 30 days

[formal pilot]

Dude it's my legit fear that Pakistan will end up with better relations with superpowers

[thorny steeple]

30/100 days if the Trump administration

[rocky coyote]

is India even pushing meaningful economic relations with developed countries atp.

[thorny steeple]

Not rn

[rocky coyote]

last time anyone's heard of Modi's developmentalism they still dwell among neighborhood partnerships like Bangladesh on speedy transit

[thorny steeple]

Real tho
They are phenomenal at buttering

[formal pilot]

Yk my hate towards US
I won't say anything

[thorny steeple]

Bangladesh backstabbed too
So no , that failed as well

[formal pilot]

Everything was going great until Russia became close with china, we can't rely on Russia anymore, that's the reason behind why we chose Rafael instead of Su57, since many parts of Su57 are made in china

[thorny steeple]

Last time I saw him was yesterday
Advocating for bihar elections
While the bridge he made was so weak that children opened nuts with their own hands and took me home

[formal pilot]

Imagine teaming up with Russia and China to bully pakistan, that would be hilarious

[thorny steeple]

Iran has been "5 mins away" from a nuclear bomb for the past 20 yrs lmao

[rocky coyote]

i wouldn't use the word "backstabbed" since Sheikh Hashina got cornered on all angles after the parliament quota protests to the point of leaving. they were on the verge of mass constructing inter-state transits, Modi was especially banking on it

[thorny steeple]

Yes
"26 me duniya khatam hai"

[formal pilot]

He was Messiah

[rocky coyote]

it's not intentional on Bangla's part but India should've been more grounded in their partnership potentials

[thorny steeple]

Bangladeshi hindu massacre and we condemning it is the reason somehow
The common public hates india with all its might

[thorny steeple]

Lord lmknot tops

Who denied the attacks lol

Regardless of all factors
Iran has been near to making nukes since the past 20 yrs

[formal pilot]

I still have the newspaper cut out of saddam's death announcement, to show the kids
Because the internet wasn't a big thing at that time

[rocky coyote]

this sentiment is only widespread among the public, though. it didn't stop the govt

[thorny steeple]

Agreed

Real

[formal pilot]

Nukes are required for peace

[thorny steeple]

Umhm

[formal pilot]

Nukes are weapons of mass pokieness

[rocky coyote]

yall are fearmongering and hyping much world war prospects too much for someone who's not even an inch close to getting drafted

[thorny steeple]

A Thanos snap

Uk I saw a meme of Kim Jong Un
"When everyone is playing nuke nuke and no one invites u" and he was crying in tht pic 😭😭

Top leaders are dimwits

I cud handle a country better than Trump no cap

💀

I am a teenager

Real

[rocky coyote]

is Iran going to launch a direct offensive at mainland US or are they gonna bomb middle east bases first

actually khomeini's not that stupid its definitely the latter

[olive herald]

That’s so true …. Do not bomba USA pls ( I don’t live there, but people in there are crazy ) ( Canada too … it is not a rule if it’s ur first ww1🥀🥀☠️)

[rigid robin]

for what this hat?

[olive herald]

Pacers or thunder ????

[olive herald]

Pacers kr thunde ???

[thorny steeple]

bases i guess

[rocky coyote]

true that was a brainless question

looking back these past few months my geopolitical instincts are so shortsighted

i lost a bet (worth a week of gas but it's not much) against my less knowledgeable dad on whether trump was going to push the detonator or not because i genuinely couldn't count Trump to support Israel fraternally, at least not to the point of supplying military forces

[turbid dome]

Oh yeah he was always going to do it, he’s being paid too much of do so ($100 Million by Miriam Adelson), additionally he’s always supported Israel unconditionally and has previously escalated for Israel with the Jerusalem Accords in 2017

He put on a very public act about pretending to want to avoid war while everyone knew he was going to strike Iran, Ken Klippenstein followed by Wall Street Journal Both had reporting on that

[rocky coyote]

he remained supportive when Israel as a settler economy was unbothered and generally promising for the US. Trump was definitely compelled by Adelson's donation but i doubt he was solely motivated by the favor he owed her. his plan to reconstruct Gaza attracted conflicting feelings from even supposed allies and it got suspended for some time, Israel's suffered from losses they weren't prepared to handle and Netanyahu had to grovel lower than he did for Biden for supplies

[turbid dome]

Only reason he didn’t have to grovel for supplies from Biden is because Biden was more pro-Israel then Trump. Biden was an ideological Zionist, Trump only cares because it’s in his interest to

[rocky coyote]

and he was already expending the trenches of the state budget to instate his Anti-Woke Derangement government, with money that was depleting on a rapid rate since the US' war business was stunted, particularly due to Biden's provisions frenzy, that it couldn't produce a rich enough fountain for the national economy. the vault was running dry and trump's got his hands full with ICE delirium so i thought he would stop considering to dote Israel

especially in both country's shaken economic states to afford real warfare sophistry instead of ravaging innocents

[turbid dome]

Nah never, the domestic pressure is minimal when the police here are their own military, the US war machine may be on its last legs but it’s a violent state and will always do violence as dying empires do

[turbid dome]

When has the US ever cared for innocents

[rocky coyote]

no i mean i thought they weren't in a safe financial position to arm themselves for real-time reactive war

[turbid dome]

They’ll always find a way to go to war

[rocky coyote]

instead of just sticking to doing genocides against fightless civilians

[turbid dome]

They’ll just cut more services at home

[rocky coyote]

to be fair i based my assumption of Trump's logic to participate on what he can gain from supporting Netanyahu with Israel's current stance, but i got reminded for a split second that he was given an opening against Iran out of all countries.

[turbid dome]

Yeah, there’s plenty to gain from Iran, they probably want a US backed puppet (news has the son of the shah on, I would bet he’s their best bet for puppet), they probably want him to stop doing business with China and Russia and privatize Iranian resources and give them to American/western companies

Of course in the long term it will be unpopular and there will be another revolution in Iran

But it could hurt China and Russia

[rocky coyote]

i dont think fishing for Russia and/or China's ire is trump's prime directive, they're more like subsequent goals he's going to hold on to. his brain is too stuffed with nuclear stock paranoia to immediately think of beating two superpowers in economic longevities, but once he secures the plants Trump will brag about it to no end including protecting them from any foreign investments.

[olive herald]

Pacer or thunder debate ?

Which one is gonna win the nba final ?

[rocky coyote]

i emphasized his bigger desire to reach for Iran's nukes than finally safeguarding Iran as an core profitable puppet because only Russia's willing to put its stakes, given how Putin runs the current nation lowkey mirrors Trump. China, economics and geopolitics wise, has no urgency. i doubt their EVs and nuclear plants are or will grow to be dependent on Iran

[turbid dome]

Yeah, it’s not. That’s more the long term goals of the uniparty national security type guys, that they can push onto him. He’s more interested in privatization I think.

[turbid dome]

Iran doesn’t even have nukes or nuclear desires, if it did it would already have nukes. It should absolutely get nukes though.

[rocky coyote]

it does house some of the most reputed academic nuclear studies on the planet

[turbid dome]

That’s true, though we have no need for that due to our large nuclear arsenal, nor is denying it critical as the main adversaries of the US already have nuclear arsenals. Iran is realistically a non-threat.

[golden yoke]

Do you guys think WW3 is gonna happen?

[serene yew]

depends on how involved the US wants to be in iran-israel

[turbid dome]

Yes, but I’m not sure if this will be what triggers it, so far I’ve seen restraint from everyone except the US and Israel, so I think it may be avoided and at worst it will be a war with Iran.

Though a third world war is looking inevitable for this century

[golden yoke]

I know quite a bit but it’s the government not the people, and I’m worried because my husband lives in the US

[olive herald]

Yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap yap

[uncut tiger]

yap yap yap yap yap yap

https://tenor.com/view/yap-yapping-yap-cat-yapidi-yap-yap-yap-yap-gif-11479956768894629287

[olive herald]

Yeyyyy

[magic olive]

https://x.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1936573183634645387?s=46

Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump)

X · Jun 21, 2025, 11:53 PM

I just woke up to this

[verbal abyss]

THE DEMOCRACY IS KNOCKING 🇺🇸 🇺🇸

You either open the door or lose

[prisma cipher]

Yes

[slender coral]

It seems like this mentality is really hated in America, how does it presist?

[uncut tiger]

Are you happy