🧠｜serious-chat

[gritty echo]

No ?

[verbal abyss]

Its better for just to let control land that side that has something of truth
But we are all selfish

[neon sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/animaux-dance-twerk-content-heureux-gif-16761962805128759027

[manic juniper]

Those are the French

[gritty echo]

Birds are living dinos it is so crazy

[neon sierra]

paris and its smell

maybe

[manic juniper]

Yes a bit and they are the largest reptile group for this reason

[verbal abyss]

Lol

[manic juniper]

Turtles are closer to birds than they are to lizards or snakes

[gritty echo]

And even crocodiles are old as jura times

[verbal abyss]

Some rumors tell that Paris smell is about to disappear

[manic juniper]

Could the Kurdish flag refer to reptiles

[torn otter]

Already done kashmir exodus search

[manic juniper]

It has a sun, the sun powers lizards

[verbal abyss]

Crocodiles please take your land, let free business develop and innovate world

[neon sierra]

twerking

[manic juniper]

They are taking their land back from alligators in USA

[neon sierra]

i wish i was a reptile

[manic juniper]

This is a systemic issue created by mammals

As always

[gritty echo]

And we have the moon then are we werewolfs wait a minute our national animal is wolf

WTF

[verbal abyss]

I wish i was some flying squirrel

[manic juniper]

But since reptiles are just and perfect they are solving it in the best way, by manifesting their power over one another

[gritty echo]

My brain is going to be exploding

[manic juniper]

What about a sugar glider or a flying lemur

[gritty echo]

https://tenor.com/view/gokturk-göktürk-khaganete-kağan-bayrak-gif-4684808815614413110

[verbal abyss]

Perfection

[gritty echo]

I like this alphabet

[verbal abyss]

Whoever of these cool guys

[gritty echo]

I know how to read btw

[manic juniper]

Sugar gliders are the marsupial counterparts of flying squirrels

[olive fractal]

Mammals also shut down SAAB. Another mammal classic.

[manic juniper]

And flying lemurs are... Strange...

They are the closest relatives of primates

[neon sierra]

what country sexual abuse animals the most

[manic juniper]

It is true

[gritty echo]

But the most crazy and suspicious animal is ornitorenk

[manic juniper]

Idk I guess China just by the sheer amount of people and all the pigs they need to farm

[olive fractal]

Marsupials are the only tolerable mammals

[gritty echo]

https://tenor.com/view/platypus-run-wiggle-funny-gif-4823281

They have eggs , poison and they are mammals

[verbal abyss]

Minecraft is angry

[gritty echo]

How

[neon sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/marsupilami-marsu-exploring-curious-gif-4925466922968900911

[torn otter]

Platypus

[manic juniper]

There are other mammals with venom

[gritty echo]

Yeah

[manic juniper]

Some studies propose that venom was a basal and primitive trait in mammals

[gritty echo]

But there is no one egg

[manic juniper]

The echidnas

[neon sierra]

test

[torn otter]

Nor they have egg+ mammal

[manic juniper]

The four species of echidnas are monotremes, they also lay eggs

[torn otter]

Platypus so cool

[gritty echo]

Whaaaa

How it can be

[manic juniper]

The weird thing is that the platypus isn't the weird one

The echidnas are

The ancestors of the platypus and echidnas looked more like the platypus, it's the echidnas that became more terrestrial and developed spikes

https://tenor.com/view/echidna-cute-animals-baby-echidna-ant-eater-looking-for-it-gif-13290978

[manic juniper]

It's debated

[torn otter]

If you're into land-dwelling, armored bug-eaters: Echidna wins.
If you're into electric-sensing, venomous, water-dwelling hybrids: Platypus takes it.

[manic juniper]

Some studies suggest that they developed egg-laying later, others that the first mammals laid eggs

[neon sierra]

i wish we humans were laying eggs instead of giving birth

the idea of giving birth scares me

[manic juniper]

It is bad when done by mammals

[manic juniper]

Egg-laying mammals and marsupials have underdeveloped children

They are altricial and also limited in specialisations

It's weird because reptiles don't have this problem at all, whether they lay eggs or have live birth

Only birds are altricial and this is because they learn a lot and their brains are insanely complex

[torn otter]

Egg laying came First as repltiles come before mammals. Earlier mammals were born from eggs

[manic juniper]

Not exactly, the ancestors of reptiles and mammals originated around the same time

By the time mammals existed both groups have been separate for a very long time, it's possible that their ancestors could already have live birth

[gritty echo]

How do you know that , have you been there

[manic juniper]

Molecular clock and comparative genetics

Reptiles and synapsids (the group where mammals belong) separated 320 million years ago

[neon sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/reptile-star-trek-look-back-what-turn-around-gif-16506545

[olive fractal]

a bombastic specimen

[thorny steeple]

Hi

[lethal mulch]

hi

[thorny steeple]

Hallo how's ya

[thorny steeple]

Blud got muted

Wonder what's the reason for that

[thorny steeple]

Amen 🙌

[formal pilot]

[thorny steeple]

Blud is chilling while Iran and Israel send their rockets

[formal pilot]

Echidnas don't have duck like feet

[manic juniper]

The platypus was the base form

Look up the extinct monotremes, most looked like the platypus. The echidna is the new design

[formal pilot]

Platypus are based

[winged hare]

👀

[manic juniper]

One of the oldest and most successful mammal looked like the platypus but more muscular

[formal pilot]

New doesn't necessarily mean better

[manic juniper]

No it's just a new design

It's a weird innovation

I'm a fan of the sheep-sized echidna

[formal pilot]

Can't wait for chad iran edits reels on my insta

[formal pilot]

They look magestic

[thorny steeple]

Can't wait for Israel propaganda on my tiktok

[formal pilot]

There's no way we got sheep sized echinda

[thorny steeple]

That be crazyyy

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murrayglossus

[thorny steeple]

What do you think why mango seeds are so big?

[formal pilot]

They aren't even venomous i dunno why you're supporting a mediocre animal compared to platypus

[manic juniper]

I support both

[thorny steeple]

Lmao

[manic juniper]

Echidnas are the beavers of Australia

[thorny steeple]

Equalist spotted

[manic juniper]

They dig everywhere

They break down soil that would otherwise become too hardy and dry

[thorny steeple]

That human death zone has so many fauna lol

[formal pilot]

They also incubate eggs, losers

[manic juniper]

No one:
Monotremes: let's come up with a new form that looks less original than the previous one

It's not even believable that the platypus is the conservative one

Even the venomous spur is a primitive trait in mammals

[thorny steeple]

Why do mammals don't lay eggs?

[formal pilot]

Platypus: hold my beak

[manic juniper]

For some reasons mammals are altricial when they are forced to lay eggs. This is a synapomorphy in synapsids

[thorny steeple]

I mean humans too bro

[thorny steeple]

Alright

[manic juniper]

It's a trait shared by the ancestor of all mammals that was likely an egg layer

This is opposed to reptiles that generate fully developed offspring whenever possible

[formal pilot]

I like the ogs tbh

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/turtle-egg-born-getting-out-baby-gif-10328241

[thorny steeple]

Yeah humans can't regenerate limbs

[manic juniper]

Truly a marvel of reptilian engineering

[formal pilot]

Propoganda spotted

[manic juniper]

I never looked into why some mammals are still altricial despite being viviparous

With humans it makes sense, we learn a lot same as songbirds and this requires altriciality

But I don't get why dogs and rats are altricial

[thorny steeple]

Reptilian propaganda

[formal pilot]

?def Altriciality

[cursive bobcat]

:x: That word could not be found in the dictionary.

[thorny steeple]

New English word dropped

[formal pilot]

"strategy where young are born or hatched in a helpless state, requiring significant parental care for a period"

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precociality_and_altriciality

Altricial is basically larval

It's more used for vertebrates

[thorny steeple]

That's Aladdin the dictionary

[manic juniper]

Sauropsids are primitively superprecocial

It means that normally they are born fully formed and fully independent

The only exceptions are birds, but there are precocial birds too

[formal pilot]

Most mammals are like that, i can't think of any which doesn't require parental care

[manic juniper]

No it's about being fully formed or not, many of them can walk after a short time

[thorny steeple]

Noice

[formal pilot]

Yeah deers can walk n shi

[manic juniper]

Marsupials are altricial because of their incomplete placenta, placentals are usually precocial

[formal pilot]

I don't understand marsupials, why evolution favoured this kind of development

[manic juniper]

Marsupials had an insane advantage at first. For some reasons they were the most successful post extinction mammals

[thorny steeple]

God why don't we have zombie deers before GTA 6

[manic juniper]

They have the shortest pregnancies I guess and that could be why

[thorny steeple]

How short?

[manic juniper]

Marsupials were also isolated from other mammals and this wasn't a big problem even if they came in contact, they had their own specialisations (they still do in South America)

[manic juniper]

The red kangaroo, the largest marsupial alive, has a gestation of just 33 days

[formal pilot]

We might be zombies, our brain might be a parasite

[manic juniper]

Opossums only at 13 days

[thorny steeple]

Yeah who's the conscious vs who's the brain

[manic juniper]

Marsupials were early investors basically

[thorny steeple]

F that's hella short than humans

[manic juniper]

They got insane returns and advantages until the playing field was levelled out

Btw monotremes have similar disadvantages to marsupials, they too need to climb their mothers to access milk

[formal pilot]

Yeah that might be the reason, Ability to produce multiple offspring per year, instead of producing one developed one

[manic juniper]

The thing with marsupials isn't just being altricial, but they are limited by their digits. They are supposed to be able to climb, this restricts their possible lifestyles. Most biologists think there couldn't be a fully aquatic marsupial

[manic juniper]

In a time where resources were scarce and there was no food security it was good to be a marsupial

[formal pilot]

@thorny steeple have you ever seen a newborn kangaroo?

[manic juniper]

Marsupials have a nice feature that placental mammals had to cut

[thorny steeple]

Nahhh wby

[manic juniper]

The epipubic bone

[formal pilot]

I haven't seen em irl

[thorny steeple]

Well that's hella Small

[formal pilot]

I've seen kangaroos with older babies but not new born

[thorny steeple]

Same

[manic juniper]

They're basically glorified fetuses

[formal pilot]

Lemme google

[thorny steeple]

I seen bats lol

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epipubic_bone

If it's true that it helps with stiffness this thing would've been the magic archosaurian knees that mammals never developed

[thorny steeple]

Who was the first the Mammal

[formal pilot]

Goddammmmit imagine deadlifting with this bone, sounds magical

[formal pilot]

We aren't certain, we only know early mammals

[thorny steeple]

Ofc that's evolution 🧬

[manic juniper]

The oldest known to us has to be Juramaia
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juramaia

[thorny steeple]

Nice

[formal pilot]

15-17 grams

[manic juniper]

It existed 160 million years ago

It coincides with one of the two estimations, which is 167 million years more or less

This was the time when the first mammal would've appeared

[thorny steeple]

Very small lmao

[formal pilot]

I didn't know something smaller than nepolean can exist

[thorny steeple]

Definitely takes the record lmao

[formal pilot]

What was there before it? Reptiles like creatures?

[manic juniper]

Many early mammals were minuscule like that

[thorny steeple]

Aquatic mammals are there any?

[manic juniper]

Most already looked like mammals, they're included in the larger clade of mammaliaformes

[formal pilot]

That's why they survived mass extinction

[manic juniper]

For example Morganucodon, this is a recent non-mammal mammaliaformes

There were many groups with partial mammal features

Their ear and jaw bones resembled ours, their teeth too

[thorny steeple]

Definitely this why Humanity arose

[formal pilot]

We should start selective breeding in humans

[manic juniper]

And shrink to 17 g?

[thorny steeple]

Mission impossible

[formal pilot]

What does it mean

[manic juniper]

Castorocauda wasn't a mammal but it shows evidence of diversity amongst their group

[manic juniper]

17 grams like Juramaia

[thorny steeple]

How diverse?

[manic juniper]

It looked like a beaver, in habits and appearance (besides the wood chewing and dam building part)

Just like mammals they were trying to fill niches of small animals

[thorny steeple]

Oh juramia the daily Mail newsletter

[manic juniper]

Since everything else was completely occupied by reptiles

[thorny steeple]

Nice what continent was there pangea?

[manic juniper]

Reptiles had no mercy back then

[formal pilot]

I'm being serious, we should selectively breed humans for different purposes
Intellectual
Physical strength n shi

[manic juniper]

By then no, I think it was Laurasia, Gondwana and some others like Antarctica-Australia

[thorny steeple]

Definitely and they lost their chances of intelligence and creating civilization in their own terms

[manic juniper]

Pangaea was breaking up when the first dinosaurs appeared, by the time they replaced the pseudosuchians in most niches Pangaea was already quite broken and separated

[thorny steeple]

What was the first supercontinent

[thorny steeple]

Yeah and a massive sea on the other side

[formal pilot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1008361263493029898.gif

[thorny steeple]

I wonder how diverse Marine life was back then

[manic juniper]

Idk maybe Kenorland? It's hypothetical

[formal pilot]

It has always been more diverse

[manic juniper]

Yes

I can't say which time was its peak

[thorny steeple]

Vaalbara is a proposed supercontinent that is believed to be Earth's first. It is thought to have formed during the Archean Eon, approximately 3.6 to 2.8 billion years ago. The name Vaalbara is derived from the Kaapvaal craton in South Africa and the Pilbara craton in Western Australia, two of the oldest and most stable parts of the Earth's crust. The existence of Vaalbara is still debated among scientists, but evidence suggests that it may have played a significant role in the early evolution of the Earth.

[manic juniper]

The Devonian was insanely diverse

[thorny steeple]

What imagine if oceanic life never peaked

[thorny steeple]

Hella I'm sure there's lots of fossils then

[manic juniper]

Kenorland would've existed right after it

[thorny steeple]

Yeah it was so damn ago I'm sure only traces of it exists

[formal pilot]

Nvm i don't want to get muted

[uneven citrus]

yes you want

[thorny steeple]

🫵

[cosmic wolf]

Happy Sa a day

[cosmic wolf]

Vaalbara, huh? Never heard of it before. Is that older than Pangaea?

[tepid solstice]

Happy Happy Happy

[wise isle]

as i was saying @wooden pendant @thorny steeple

We see things moving around us.

Everything that moves is moved by something else. Nothing can move itself.

This chain of movers cannot go back infinitely, or else there would be no first mover, and nothing would move now.

Therefore, there must be a First Mover that itself is not moved by anything else.

This First Mover is what everyone understands to be God.

See that it does not proves god

but put us closer to him

[thorny steeple]

sure

watchmaker arguemnt

[wise isle]

If you disagree with what I’ve said, then we have to question Aristotle, it’s logic.

[thorny steeple]

bc a watch cant be made by itself it must have been made by some creator

[wise isle]

Nah, as i said, it's one of the 5 ways of aquina

[wise isle]

teleological argument

It already assumes that God exists

[high raven]

In response to #💭｜general message : Imagine three people describing the same mountain from different sides, one sees a river, another a forest, and the third a snowy peak. Their descriptions seem different, even contradictory, but they’re all true perspectives of the same mountain. Different faiths use different languages, symbols, and stories to express a deeper, shared, truth about the divine, I also explained this earlier in #💭｜general message

[thorny steeple]

which god

then god made the first move?

[sinful sundial]

because the truth is multifaceted, just like life

[wise isle]

some theological traditions argue there is one ultimate truth that can be approached through reason and revelation, but how we express or understand it can vary

[high raven]

What’s true for one person’s faith may be their genuine experience of God, even if it looks different from another persons

[wooden pendant]

my one

[wise isle]

Like the one i'm more engaged with

[wise isle]

as my brother right there said

I kinda agree

[thorny steeple]

faith is the excuse people give when they dont have evidence

[wise isle]

Nah, it's so sad of you to say that bro

[high raven]

Exactly, it's multifaceted, you don't always need one clear answer, perspectives are great

[wise isle]

How can we prove something metaphisical

therefore spiritual

[thorny steeple]

spritiual doesnt u have to prove it existance

[wooden pendant]

if we cant prove it then why should we believe it

[wise isle]

I'll say it again, we can just get closer to God, not prove him

[thorny steeple]

u dont just say yeti exist u have to prove yeti first

[wooden pendant]

u can say all about ghosts and stuff

[high raven]

If faith is just an excuse, then how do atheists explain their absolute certainty without any proof that no gods exist?

[thorny steeple]

how would u get closer to god?

[wooden pendant]

but until u prove it

[sinful sundial]

Yes, I like the expression * big can be seen from afar*. Being only a part, we are able to describe only a part and are not able to generalize

[wooden pendant]

its non-existent

[static pivot]

what are the properties of god?

[thorny steeple]

atheist dont have absulute certainty they are unconvinced god exist

[static pivot]

Can someone define me the properties

[thorny steeple]

yeah exactly

[wise isle]

Just like i showed you,

the secound way:

In the world, we observe that things are caused by other things.

Nothing can cause itself because it would have to exist before itself, which is impossible.

There cannot be an infinite chain of causes going backward, because then there would be no first cause and no subsequent causes at all.

Therefore, there must be a First Cause that is not caused by anything else.

This First Cause is what we call God.

[wooden pendant]

we are skeptic not aboslutely certain

[high raven]

If atheists are simply unconvinced, then their position still rests on a belief

[wooden pendant]

and even if there is a god its surely not the one who humans follow

[wooden pendant]

backed by lack of evidence

[thorny steeple]

u dont just assume its god u have to prove it

[static pivot]

We should talk about this in vc

it'll be better

[thorny steeple]

make a vc for atheist

[high raven]

A lack of evidence isn't proof of absence as I mentioned earlier to "It won't flush"

[static pivot]

Take it to pnr vc

[thorny steeple]

a lack of evidene isnt the proof of its existence either

[wise isle]

We can’t prove God; He is beyond science. It’s like imagining time without the a watch or numbers

[thorny steeple]

exactly

[wise isle]

And i know it

[wooden pendant]

but surely until evidence is not given we can say that is unprovable and that what we are saying

[thorny steeple]

we cant prove god that why i im unconviced he exist in the first place

[wooden pendant]

its like a criminal is not a criminal until we have evidence for it

[sinful sundial]

The funny thing is that we can't prove anything in principle. Even physical laws are being revised over time

[thorny steeple]

well ill wait for evidence

[wooden pendant]

we have to prove his crimes

same with god we have to prove that god exist

[thorny steeple]

yup absolute certainty is impossible

[wise isle]

It's okay, i'm not tryin' to convert u or stuff, just showing that there are ways to get closer to God

[static pivot]

@raw spear we need you here

[thorny steeple]

in anything

[wooden pendant]

and not the spiritual evidence or from the books or a guy had a dream

[wise isle]

Do u know Spinoza's God?

I think you'd like it

[thorny steeple]

so which is truth there are billions of em?

[wooden pendant]

if in future we have evidence for god then ill be the most faithful but until then it is what it is

[high raven]

You're agreeing with me, absence of evidence goes both ways, it doesn’t prove something true, but it doesn’t prove it false either. Dismissing it assumes reality ends when we're no longer able to measure it

[wooden pendant]

yeah we cant just blindly believe in god cause someone says so and certainly not cause someone is afraid of going to hell

[sinful sundial]

and at the same time, there are some signs of the existence of something that cannot be denied, which means that there is no guarantee that we are describing it correctly, as in the case of God, whom some imagine as an old man sitting in heaven

[thorny steeple]

even if there is a god for example jesus, and we have evidence of his existence i have a lot of question on why he is so immoral?

[wise isle]

To make such a question you have first to assume that God exists, so we can discuss about it

some theological traditions argue there is one ultimate truth that can be approached through reason and revelation, but how we express or understand it can vary.

theological questions

presumes God

[wooden pendant]

i dont believe humans god are the real god they're just made up by humans cause surely we can see there is not heaven no hell and definitely no adam eve so leave that out of the equation for me god is that one incident that started big bang we have to see if its a being or just a phenomenon

[wise isle]

Jesus existed, it's a fact

there are historical proof

But if he was god's son, you can discuss for yourself

[thorny steeple]

hell, is a trap to keep a believer trapped in its religion, also what if im a muslim and the actual truth is jesus and im in hell rn even tho i didnt commit any crimes, i lived my live peacufully

[wooden pendant]

yeah but believing in something without any evidence is idiocity the best option is to be agnostic just wait till we get proof

[thorny steeple]

mythology is not histroy

[wise isle]

Mythology is Zeus

[thorny steeple]

yup he is

indeed

[wooden pendant]

everyone will go to hell but of others religion christians will go to muslims hell muslims to christians hell while non believers will go to void

[wise isle]

If u search about a little bit letting the ignorance aside, you'll see

[wooden pendant]

yeah and that's not history

[wise isle]

with all respect

[wooden pendant]

zeus is not real

[high raven]

Oh boy

[thorny steeple]

what

void?

if theres no god, and i die, i just dont exist

[sinful sundial]

this is exactly what partially proves its existence. because in such a complex world where quantum physics, genetics, and evolution exist, it would be strange for an entity to simply fulfill desires. everything is much more complicated, as are the illnesses of children, which did not occur because God is evil and immoral. in addition, imagine the existence of such a vast world As ours, such a volume of structured information just begins to realize itself. And we're part of it. The most interesting thing is that science has been proving the existence of God in recent years, just read about quantum physics or books by neurosurgeon scientists

[thorny steeple]

theres no soul

[high raven]

Calling religious people idiots overlooks the depth, history, and personal experience behind their beliefs, it’s not only disrespectful but also intellectually lazy

[wooden pendant]

well yeah cause we dont have a heaven or hell since we dont believe in god so whwn we die nothing there

https://tenor.com/view/void-space-banner-the-void-banner-mr-ends-gif-27216562

[thorny steeple]

no ones calling idiot here

[high raven]

The message was deleted

[wooden pendant]

i did and mb

[thorny steeple]

who said it?

[wooden pendant]

i didnt delete it

[thorny steeple]

be respectable

[wooden pendant]

i just said believing without evidence is idiocity

[wise isle]

as i said

If you believe in God and he doesn' t exist, you lose nothing but if you don't believe and he does exist, you lose everything let's go gambling

oh dang

[thorny steeple]

this is not joke

[cosmic wolf]

They are just victims of what they face

[thorny steeple]

also i dont get it

[wooden pendant]

choose the real one from 10000 religions

lets go gambling

[wise isle]

I'll repeat myself: some theological traditions argue there is one ultimate truth that can be approached through reason and revelation, but how we express or understand it can vary.

[cosmic wolf]

They’re just victims

[high raven]

You'll have to specify who "They" are

[toxic glade]

I don’t know about “victims”

[cosmic wolf]

You have to look for it instead of gambling

[wooden pendant]

welp i'd rather not choose

[thorny steeple]

whats do u mean theres by the ultimate truth?

[toxic glade]

Whether or not god “exists” in the strict sense of the word, there are a lot of people who find a great deal of meaning in religion

[cosmic wolf]

Naah i said in context. People who’s calling religious people idiiots

[thorny steeple]

there are a lot of things disturbing in religions

[wooden pendant]

yeah that's another point religion teaches u to live ur life gives u hope and does a lot of good so its not really that bad

but everything has its pro and cons

[thorny steeple]

No, you can't get morality from religion

[sinful sundial]

People are social creatures, and we need some kind of solid support that becomes a pivot for decision-making. For some, this is God, for others it is the consciousness of the importance of their own self. It's just that God gives a deeper meaning to life

[toxic glade]

There are

[thorny steeple]

they are so distrubing if i name them i might bet a ban

[wooden pendant]

welp true if u have morality cause of religion then u'd rather not have it morality should come from inside and not cause ur god says so

[thorny steeple]

so i would rather not say it

[wise isle]

first i'll image that u accepted God, cuz it's a theological question.

by ultimate truth, i mean the idea that there is one fundamental reality or divine being that is the source and foundation of everything, any theological traditions, like christianityi, believes this truth can be known partly through human reason and partly through divine revelation.

Simply put: many different religions reflect how humans interpret, experience, and express that truth in diverse ways

[wise isle]

.

[toxic glade]

I just wouldn’t say that people who believe in religion are victims

That’s rather infantilizing

[thorny steeple]

they are victims tho

why do u think they become religious

their parents indoctrinated them with their own religion

[wooden pendant]

Believing randomly results in a large negative expected value, because the odds of choosing the wrong religion (9/10) heavily outweigh the single chance of reward.

Atheism, under this setup, has less negative utility, meaning it's the safer bet under uncertainty — unless you have reason to think one religion is more likely correct.

[wise isle]

I felt offended by that honestly

[wooden pendant]

lets do probability baby

[thorny steeple]

a child who doesnt even have a abilty to think or argue is indoctrinated with gods and no questioning to it

[wooden pendant]

and yes I just chatgpte'd

[sinful sundial]

don't forget that people are only people, and in fact most atheists and believers are arguing not about gods, but about their interpretation of God, The ATO is pretty dubious because we will never be able to describe it. Religion is a way to streamline and structure the understanding of God, but it does not mean that it is an accurate description of God. It's just easier for people to perceive something specific

[wise isle]

I respect atheists, i was one at a time

a expect the same

[thorny steeple]

so honesty is offending

ur not the victim

[wise isle]

Here is your answer

[thorny steeple]

the kids who get thrown in religion

are the victim

[wooden pendant]

and why did god makes people born in other religion and some in the same religion isnt that unfair to some people who are not born int the correct religion

[wise isle]

Ah bro

tf LMAO

[toxic glade]

What about adults who choose to turn to religion? Are they also victims?

[wooden pendant]

some people have to be just born in the correct one and they're destined for heaven

[thorny steeple]

turn? like they rebel agaisnt their religion? no

[wise isle]

Simply put: many different religions reflect how humans interpret, experience, and express that truth in diverse ways

[wooden pendant]

some people born in wholly different one and now they are ignorant to choose which one

[wise isle]

are y'all even reading?

[cosmic wolf]

Just a suggestion, look it up! Not the religion your father inherited

[toxic glade]

I do not believe in any religions, but young Timmy who believes in god is not a victim

[wise isle]

[thorny steeple]

till the time ur letting them express their arguments its not

[sinful sundial]

just like you don't control which country you were born in or what color your eyes are. That doesn't mean you're a victim if u didn't choose it

[wooden pendant]

but the problem of choosing the wrong one is hell

[high raven]

Calling religious people “victims” is not only weird but also a lazy way to dismiss deeply held beliefs, reducing them to weakness instead of appreciating sincere conviction. I don't see how it encourages any meaningful conversation if you're just arguing in poor faith

[cosmic wolf]

Some religions believe that’s hell doesn’t exist tho

[wooden pendant]

yeah but why do i have to look it up and some people just get to be born in the correct one isnt it unfair towards me

[wise isle]

oversimplification, atheists love do that

[wooden pendant]

yeah but ull be going to some religions hell for sure

[high raven]

It's intellectually lazy

[cosmic wolf]

Hahahah yap I agree

[toxic glade]

I completely agree

[wooden pendant]

we're all destined for hell 😔

[toxic glade]

If atheists and theists want to have productive conversations, treating either side as a “victim” or infantilizing them is simply a waste of time

[wise isle]

It makes the world simple, I don’t have to study or do any research, I just have to say they’re victims, that’s an ad hominem fallacy anyways

[sinful sundial]

Meh, seems like some people don't really want to discuss the situation, they just keep talking about the same thing. Good luck

[cosmic wolf]

I'd rather chat to an atheist than a religious person who doesn't know their own religion.

Sometimes

[high raven]

I agree with you but damn, that "study" woke me up, I really need to lock in

[thorny steeple]

when i say victims, i mean the small kids who havent devlop the abity to question or argure, and their parents tell them to believe in this god like take taking a pill with no question on its existance, are the victims ur poisoning their mind with religious dogma is immoral

[wise isle]

lmao

[high raven]

Enjoy your day Nati!

[toxic glade]

Yeah, I just really don’t agree with that view in any capacity

[thorny steeple]

i have a question

[wise isle]

The state is the culprit; people who are encouraged to study don’t accept alienation

[toxic glade]

Believing in god is not harming that kid

[wise isle]

or even individual problem, idk

[sinful sundial]

Same for u Sanna

[thorny steeple]

Ye

[thorny steeple]

Nati Nati

indoctrinating kids in the most innocent and vulnerable age with religion is immoral

[cosmic wolf]

Well their country has to do that for the country to be conducive

[wise isle]

yeah, i don't belive in blind faith

[sinful sundial]

Hey!

[wooden pendant]

and in that environment people dont even question their own religion they're just following it blindly

and i know some people do research but most do no they just go with the flow

[toxic glade]

People are not blank slates, children will adopt the beliefs of the culture surrounding them

[thorny steeple]

How's ya been awhile Mashallah

[toxic glade]

If a child growing up to believe in god because his parents do is a victim

Then a child growing up to be vegetarian because of his parents is also a victim

[cosmic wolf]

Haha

[wise isle]

What’s truly immoral is allowing children to change their intimate organs

Religion can change at any rate

[toxic glade]

Belief in god or being a vegetarian are not harmful to a person, they do not victimize you

[wise isle]

with effort

[wooden pendant]

unless ur forced to do things which that religion mandates

[toxic glade]

This doesn’t happen, by the way

[sinful sundial]

Amma good, there's a lot of work in the lab, but overall everything is fine, this week I was in a nice cozy place. And u?

[wise isle]

But they tried

[wooden pendant]

and vegetarian is a good example but rather out of context

[wise isle]

in my country btw

[toxic glade]

We are all forced to do certain things due to our culture

[toxic glade]

They did not

[thorny steeple]

That's great to hear Scientist 🥼 Nati Nati, I'm doing alright watching Hell's kitchen

[wooden pendant]

what do u mean?

genital mutilation

is a thing btw

[toxic glade]

What he is saying is disconnected from reality

[wooden pendant]

and it happens

[toxic glade]

That is a completely different thing

[thorny steeple]

children, especially before age 7 - 10, lack cognitive tools like critically evaluate complex ideas, understanding metaphor vs literal truth, question authority or social norms

Instead of being offered multiple worldview, they are told to believe as an absolute truth, often before they can read or reason independently

[wise isle]

Just for u brotha

i've seen it a lot

[wooden pendant]

how? it happens cause the religion mandates it

not cause of health reason if ur gonna say that dont

[sinful sundial]

Ahh, wait, I know the same TV show in my country

[wooden pendant]

we all know its cause of the religion

[thorny steeple]

Nice

[toxic glade]

He was spreading anti-trans fearmongering, not discussing religious views

[wooden pendant]

who he? point me to it

[thorny steeple]

i would say they are victim

[sinful sundial]

[toxic glade]

^

[thorny steeple]

what

[wooden pendant]

can u elaborate on this

[thorny steeple]

i havent even said any thing about trans

[wooden pendant]

i didnt understand

[toxic glade]

Not you, pay attention, lol

[cosmic wolf]

Yep and they're just getting on with life while feeding off the social media algorithms

[wise isle]

Course

[wooden pendant]

and chatting on discord english hub serious chat

[thorny steeple]

why did u say i was spreading anti trean fear mongering when i didnt?

[wooden pendant]

he's talking about crowler

not u

[thorny steeple]

oh nvm

mb

[wooden pendant]

please do thank you

[cosmic wolf]

Yappp

[thorny steeple]

that is immoral but how does that justify childrens when put on realigious dogma?

they both are immoral

but thats a separate problem

not related to religion

[wooden pendant]

and looking at the numbers one is far more spread out and normalized than the other

[cosmic wolf]

Can u define religious views is? I dont get it?

[wooden pendant]

well talk about religion and its practices rather than lgbtqa+ which is not related to religion in the context we're having

and gender change has nothing to do with religion

[thorny steeple]

also thats not anti trans fearmongring, its between a doctor and a patient to decide whats best for patients

and states rights

if in religion u would say, im mostly in finding truth and not a comforting lie

thats the most biggest reason why im atheist

[thorny steeple]

Unless it's false, it's harmful to their whole life and bloodline
FGM will continue in a culture when it's enforced as a ritual. Conversion is the only way out and there's no reforming a tribal practice

I rejected Buddhist practices, came to agnosticism, found nothing, but always believed there was some kind of God
So I became Catholic, still studying and will be baptised next year

would u say to a child that yeti exist and believe in yeti, and not let him question that, isnt that a major cognitive flaw ur adding in his brain in his most vital age

[wise isle]

In some countries, especially in the U.Sand canada, there are medical protocols in place for minors who experience gender dysphoria, you know like, when they wanna change their intimate organs or undergo other genderrelated treatments and such, I was just drawing a comparison between how that is often accepted, while at the same time, people react with disgust when parents try to raise their children with religious values like Eetwont was saying, yes, it was more about indoctrination, but in the end, it’s the parents who are responsible for teaching their children, so… in my country, Brazil, discussions have been spreading about allowing minors to undergo genderrelated medical treatments, in any moment i said it was happening like 9 years old child, but if people are accepting it as the rightouss, why do they hate religion that much?

[cosmic wolf]

Some places in my country have trans people, especially lady boys, who are still allowed to pray in places of worship.

[wise isle]

sorry my english

[thorny steeple]

also why is their no mentions of transgender in religious text?

they do exist

and only writthen a man and female

another contradiction

[wise isle]

👆

[toxic glade]

Implying that there is One True Religion™️ and that belief in anything else is harmful to a person is not a pathway to a productive discussion on anything

[wooden pendant]

but if gender dysphoria is causing childrens lives to be worse then why should we not allow them to be at least live their life as normal by change their gender and its a medical condition so surely doctors and scientist have done research about it and what should be done or else in future they turn out to be gay which btw religions people hate so its better change their gender and be "normal" acc to religion too

[wooden pendant]

good but we all know how they are portrayed they are sinner no matter how much accommodating it is (in some religions) in some religions they are accepted

[cosmic wolf]

I dont agree, clearly that’s not true bcz that’s l religion has rules and we must obey them.

[wise isle]

Nah, i'm not one of those who hate these people

[thorny steeple]

Because there is no compromise with truth. If all religions are true and path to salvation, then none can be true since they contradict with each other. Metaphysical relativism cannot exist. There cannot be interpretations of abstract god, strictly one god, three Godheads existing and they are all true

[wise isle]

The point is, a child can’t even speak properly yet, how can we give anyone the power to mess up their lives like that? ( i mean, someone who does not know nothing, even what he wants)

[toxic glade]

If you believe in the idea of One True Religion™️ then you are simply picking whichever one sounds the best to you, because you cannot possibly know which religion is the “correct” one

To decry other religious beliefs as somehow wrong simply doesn’t make sense

[thorny steeple]

I can walk in here and say the Earth is flat. Everything revolves around the Earth

But the majority of the people say Earth is not flat. It revolves around a star system

There is no compromise with truth

I will be proven wrong in that case

[wooden pendant]

yeah but tbh there is nothing about gender change per se in the books but rather about homosexuality

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[cosmic wolf]

It's just the nature of men and women.
Others are called deviants

[toxic glade]

Religion is about faith, however, not proof

We can prove that the Earth is not flat, because we can take measurements and collect evidence

You cannot prove that any given religion is the “correct” one, nor that the idea of a single “correct” religion is true

[wise isle]

as i said my boy:

you have to assume that God exists to chose a religion and with that we fall into theological questions such as yours

I'll repeat myself about this topic: the idea that there is one fundamental reality or divine being that is the source and foundation of everything, any theological traditions, like christianityi, believes this truth can be known partly through human reason and partly through divine revelation.

Simply put: many different religions reflect how humans interpret, experience, and express that truth in diverse ways

sorry my english again

[toxic glade]

You have chosen your beliefs, but that does not mean the beliefs of another religion are harmful

[thorny steeple]

wont u wanna belief in most truth and least lies as possible?

[wooden pendant]

so basically every religion is true?

[thorny steeple]

This is an empirical proof

[wise isle]

basically

[wooden pendant]

cause its just interpretiing the real one

so athiest also

[thorny steeple]

Rational proof = metaphysics and classical logic
Logic is consistent throughout the universe

[thorny steeple]

why not

[wooden pendant]

its interpreting the lack of the real one

[toxic glade]

Sure, I do, but not everyone agrees with that

[wise isle]

They do not belive in God

[wooden pendant]

yeahi

[wise isle]

that does not make sense

[wooden pendant]

its also a part of human interpretation

[cosmic wolf]

Whatever you do, others have forbidden u. But not alienating them

[wooden pendant]

so it can also be said to follow the one real truth

[toxic glade]

You would first have to prove the existence of a god, then you would have to prove the existence of your specific god, then you would have to prove that your branch of that religion’s god is the correct version of that god

[wooden pendant]

lesss gooo

[toxic glade]

We do not have evidence of such things, so I would not place any weight in the belief that there is One True Religion™️

[wise isle]

If you interpret God as water, good for you. I mean, one day, while searching for the truth, you might realize that water is just a symbol, a way to understand something deeper beyond the physical

[toxic glade]

Nor would I try to ascribe a value based judgement to compare two religions

[wooden pendant]

so lack of a god is also my interpratation maybe its the real truth

[thorny steeple]

Not all religion have similar metaphysical claims. There cannot be relativist standards that all are true. If all are true to begin with, they will be contradictory. And truth cannot contradict itself

It depends on seeking rational proof which God is real, which metaphysical framework is real

[toxic glade]

I do not claim all religions are true, because I do not believe any religions are true

But I don’t think that matters

Religions are a framework by which people base their beliefs about the world

For some people, that is a useful tool

It is not harmful for someone to believe in one god over another

[wise isle]

Truth isn't relative, but the interpretation of it, you're somewhere near to it

[wooden pendant]

unless its used a weapon

[toxic glade]

That is a problem of institutions and states

[wooden pendant]

but someone's truth can be someones lie i think its relative

[thorny steeple]

Isn't that harmful to societies? Also when u believe in a religion, u have to believe in other more irrational things like soul, ghost, rituals, miracles, creation myth, afterlife, hell or heaven, reincarnation, divine intervention, demon and possessions, human sacrifice, talking animals, flat earth, and u can't question them its like now race to belive in things which are super irrational

[toxic glade]

When religion is used as a weapon, it is wielded by people, not by the very concept of god

[thorny steeple]

What if my god commands me to sacrifice 3 children for the rewards?

[toxic glade]

What does your personal morality tell you?

[wise isle]

nop, as i said

truth isn't relative

[thorny steeple]

yeah right and we havent even proved a existance of a god AND IF SOMEONE DID IT PROVED IT IT WOULD RUN ON NEWS, PAPERS, GET A NOBAL PRIVE AND IT WILL RUN THRU ALL NEWS FOR MONTHS

[wise isle]

Low knowledge keeps you away from God, And a lot of knowledge brings you closer, like the water as i explained

ykwim?

[toxic glade]

The belief in lies over truth can be harmful to society, but the belief in a god on its own is neither morally good nor morally bad

Whether or not god exists just isn’t particularly relevant to examining the impacts of religious beliefs on people

[wise isle]

That brings a good discussion, without God, Do truth and the rightouss exists?

[thorny steeple]

personal morality is flawed. Humanism (as we know today in atheist morality) borrowed from Christian humanism

God says love one another, do not commit murder (5th Commandment, Do I show respect for the gift of life by caring for all of God's creatures, especially people? Have I ever wanted to harm or hurt anyone?)

[wooden pendant]

only scientific and mathematical truth is not relative other than that religion truth are relative and based on perspective

[thorny steeple]

whats knowledge and has anyone met this burden of knowlegde and is closer to god and can u prove its authencity?

[toxic glade]

God also commanded the Israelites to only enslave peoples not their own, so biblical morality is also flawed by our current societal standards

[thorny steeple]

And also:
1st Commandment
( I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have any other gods besides me.)

God is infinite uncaused entity. There is no cause that made God exist

[wooden pendant]

humans do have a moral compass proved by athiest

[thorny steeple]

God does not demand for his arbitrary desire

[wise isle]

we just can't achieve this truth, it does not mean it is relative

[toxic glade]

How do you mean?

[wise isle]

it just can be interpreted differently

[wooden pendant]

unless achieved how would we know if its really the truth

[toxic glade]

With or without the existence of a god, we can prove certain statements to be true

[wise isle]

please do

[toxic glade]

Humans will die without access to water

[wooden pendant]

true

[wise isle]

I can't prove God

[toxic glade]

This statement does not rely on the existence of a god to prove its veracity

[wise isle]

as i said

[wooden pendant]

neither can we disprove it

so we're just stuck

[thorny steeple]

belief in a god is morally bad, bc it focuses on the well-being of the god first, but in atheism, we focus on the well-being of humans first

[cosmic wolf]

The truth will be answered by time, whether you live or die.

[wooden pendant]

time travel

[toxic glade]

A person’s belief in god is entirely subjective to that individual’s perception of reality

Some people worship god as their lord above all, some people merely believe in the existence of god

Some people do good in the name of god, and some people do bad in the name of god

There isn’t a strict value judgement to make here

[cosmic wolf]

Truth seeker

[wooden pendant]

lord of the time

[toxic glade]

These are the beliefs of people, after all, and people are as varied as grains of sand are numerous

[thorny steeple]

It was regulated. It's unlike exploitative slavery you know in the colonial history

It was like a social class. If religion is relative and interpretive, then no one can say slavery is wrong, child sacrifice is wrong because it's based off personal standards. I can say it's correct and encouraged and I won't be wrong if morality is relative?

[cosmic wolf]

Normally, when humans seek the truth by waging war

[thorny steeple]

we ain't stuck, till the evidence comes, the default position is atheism, and we can't do any, IT'S EITHER GOD DOESN'T WANT U TO KNOW IF HE exists or HE DOESN'T EXIST. Either way, it's not my problem or ur problem, but people who are claiming there is a god without evidence is the problem

[cosmic wolf]

Hohoho

[thorny steeple]

there was even time limit for the slavery of that time (OT)
But it was outlowed following the Incarnation and new covenant

[toxic glade]

Personal morality is informed by the societies we grow up in

[wooden pendant]

but still for a god that is eternal who knows everything from beginning to the end one would think he saaw the future and disallowed slavery

[thorny steeple]

borrowed from Christian morals again, but stripped of God and objective morality

[toxic glade]

There was a limit on the enslavement of Israelites, as they were more akin to indentured servitude

However the enslavement of other peoples was not limited

[wise isle]

Do you know why we say that? Because it brings us closer to God by revealing the limits of human understanding and the need for faith like the big bang as i said

[thorny steeple]

so its like a comforting lie

[thorny steeple]

big band is a proved scientifically with evidence, god hasnt

[wooden pendant]

agnostic is a better term but yeah blind faith is really the problem

[thorny steeple]

they aint same

[wise isle]

Have you read Christopher Hitchens?

looks the same person actually

[thorny steeple]

who invented the Big Bang theory?

[wooden pendant]

who?

[cosmic wolf]

the fanatic one
Yeah it is

[toxic glade]

If morality was objective, there would be a consistent standard to base that morality off of, but you would then have to prove that this specific god is the correct one, and convince every Christian that they should change their morality to agree with that of their god

[thorny steeple]

Georges Lemaître
Belgian Catholic priest who believes God is real and his work was an effort to understand God's creation

This guy invented Big Bang theory

[thorny steeple]

No not at all I'm an atheist agnostic, which means im atheist about god until someone proves me about gos existance

[toxic glade]

“Slavery is bad” is not a part of the Bible’s take on morality

[thorny steeple]

If you think science fights theology and God and disprove it, then you misunderstood it

[toxic glade]

Because at that time, slavery was an accepted part of life in those societies

[thorny steeple]

I hear Big Bang in classroom all the time, but people are scared of mentioning the founder of that idea because he believes God is real

[wooden pendant]

does not mean god has any hand in it just cause a religious person did something scientific does not prove his god is real

[wise isle]

"the Big Bang theory was first proposed by Georges Lemaître, a Belgian priest and physicist. He combined his scientific knowledge with his religious faith, showing that science and religion can coexist. Lemaître suggested that the universe began from a “primeval atom,” which later became known as the Big Bang." - I got it from google anyways

Do u see how we can get closer to God with it?

[thorny steeple]

If I see a rock, it is a rock, fully rock.
But is there something that brought it there?

[wise isle]

it's amazing tbh

sorry my bad english again

[toxic glade]

Science and religion are not fundamentally opposed

[wooden pendant]

yes they do when u look at simply the creation story

[toxic glade]

Individual beliefs are opposed by science, such as young Earth creationism, but science does not disprove the existence of a god

[thorny steeple]

Because that'd be proved with metaphysics and classical logic

[wooden pendant]

adam and eve are not real

[thorny steeple]

a georges lamaitres a preist, ik where u heading, this is second time im mentioning it, scientist take him seriously bc he not just said big bang happend but also gave his evidence, he didnt gave evidence for gods

Hi, earthers what's up?

[wooden pendant]

so how do prove the creation story

[toxic glade]

It is impossible to “disprove” the idea that a god could exist

[winged hare]

Sus

[thorny steeple]

by evidence

[wooden pendant]

but that one particular god

[wise isle]

The evidences of Big Bang are God's evidences

[wooden pendant]

i can disprove

[wise isle]

can't u see that?

[toxic glade]

But that is why the burden of proof lies with the one making a claim

[wooden pendant]

why didnt he tell in his book then

[toxic glade]

To claim “god doesn’t exist” makes no sense, because you can’t prove that

But if someone claims “god does exist” then they must provide evidence of such a claim

[wooden pendant]

one would think he know how he created the universe but nah he created it in 7 days

[thorny steeple]

also the thing if adam and eve ca be true cus then its a BIG INCENTERY FAMILY WE ALL ARE

[wise isle]

God?

[wooden pendant]

i'd rather be monke

[wooden pendant]

yes

[toxic glade]

Most theologists take the story of Adam and Eve to be a metaphorical one

[thorny steeple]

big has not god in its explanation tbh its has nothing to go with god anyway

[wooden pendant]

evolution simply disproves every religion

[toxic glade]

Not a literal one

[wooden pendant]

there is no point u can use against that

[thorny steeple]

christians dont

[wooden pendant]

if u have any do tell

[thorny steeple]

another contradictions

[wise isle]

wtf, with all respect, you don't knwo whatchu talkin' about

[wooden pendant]

what?

[toxic glade]

Theologists are generally followers of the religion the specialize in, lol

[wooden pendant]

creation story is fake?

[wise isle]

I mean, We do see it as a metaphor

[toxic glade]

Most Christians are not young Earth creationists, so it doesn’t make sense to argue against creationism and declare it proof that god cannot exist

[wooden pendant]

simple fact evolution came so they changed their views to accomodate

just to stay modern

[thorny steeple]

ur just equating it to god bc it was given by a priest, but that priest was also a physicist

[winter smelt]

why is israel attacking iran? what happend there?

[thorny steeple]

If I say I built this rocket in 7 days with my own hand, would that mean it's fake?
It can mean something else, not a literal rocket

Because I'm not Elon Musk

[wooden pendant]

why not god sent angels to specifically tell what happend

why would angels do it metphorically

[thorny steeple]

He can, but the atheists will believe out of fear of hell

free love is the freedom to choose God or choose other god (which is fake)

[toxic glade]

That’s a very complicated question, but in short, Israel attacked Iran to attempt to prevent them from building their own nuclear weapons

Because Israel deems Iran a threat

[wooden pendant]

and if i knew the rocket took 13 billion years to create then i'd be rather skeptic on ur statement and outright call u a liar

[thorny steeple]

because science only works with testable things. god, as described in religions, is a supernatural being and there's no experiment, formula, or observation that shows god was involved in the big bang.

[toxic glade]

You’d have to ask a theologist their opinion on this

[wise isle]

idk why, but i'll give u a good example:

moses described the creation of the world in the book of genesis, starting with “Let there be light” this can be seen as aligning with modern science’s understanding that the universe began with an intense burst of energy, the big bang, which produced light and set everything in motion, while the language is different, both accounts point to a beginning where light and creation come first

How a man of the stone age would know such a thing?

[toxic glade]

I wouldn’t deign to speak for them, since I don’t believe in any religion myself

[wise isle]

.

[winter smelt]

woah, but, how is that going to prevent it? isn’t this gonna motivate them to put more resources on army and weapons?

[wooden pendant]

people really changing their view to stay modern and be accomadating when the same people were who captured a person cause he talked about infinity universe and turns out sun does not revolve around earth and neither are we the chosen ones

[toxic glade]

It is my opinion that the state of Israel wants to justify wars against its neighbours in order to conquer territory from them

[wooden pendant]

trying to really match things up with scientific view but that's really forced we all know sun is always been seen as an important aspect of religions so light simply refers to sun and defo not the big bang

[toxic glade]

I think that is an opinion that is well supported by the actions of Israel over the past few decades, as well as the current situation in Gaza

[winter smelt]

unless you are attacking the building where they are studying how to make a nuclear bomb, if you can kill those scientists and burn all the papers. but attacking civilians and their houses won’t do shit

[thorny steeple]

its a time about 400 years later, when science would know what happened before big bang, and god of the gaps argument would be turn down and religions extabishment would die out

[wise isle]

Can we continue tomorrow?

[winter smelt]

yeah probably

[wise isle]

gtg looksmaxxing lmao

Take care fellas, it was nice to talk with y'all

[toxic glade]

They did launch missiles which reportedly killed an Iranian nuclear scientist, but I do think Netanyahu was looking for a reason to justify a war

[wooden pendant]

well nah they would just correlate some statement from their book and be more fanatic

[wooden pendant]

bye bye nice talking with ya

[wooden pendant]

he just wants to delay his court proceedings

he's being impeached in court

but he started the war to delay that

[thorny steeple]

Roger Penrose, cosmologist who estimated the number of possible configurations of the early universe (different microstates it could have been) to be an order of 10^10^123, a number greater than the known stars in the universe
But only one can lead to the current universe. This is entropy and second law of thermodynamics

To say this happened by random chance is the same as the chance of a worm building rockets to set foot on the Moon.

Why did the universe begin with order (1 in 10^10^123) and not the rest?

Because it just is? 😆

[wooden pendant]

trynna become a dictator at this point

[winter smelt]

did they killed any iran civilians this time?

[toxic glade]

The global community is slowly beginning to realize the numerous crimes he has committed.. Better late than never

[wooden pendant]

well 1 in 10^10^123 is a chance and it happend cause we're alive

[toxic glade]

The majority of the casualties have been civilians

[wooden pendant]

that's probability for u

if something has a chance it will happen

[thorny steeple]

and it could have been a chaotic universe but it's not

[high raven]

Reusing the same excuse he had for the Iraq war

[toxic glade]

You could say this of any life-bearing universe, though

[wooden pendant]

it was for most of the time

[thorny steeple]

Where 1+1 is 2 in my galaxy. But 1+1 = 11 in another galaxy 😆

[wooden pendant]

and once we know about alternative universe and

other universe

then how would we prove this

[thorny steeple]

metaverse?

[toxic glade]

We can only observe the universe because we exist to do so, therefore the set of circumstances to create this specific universe are, in a way, guaranteed

Were it slightly different, we would simply make the same observation of that universe

[toxic glade]

Yup, he has learned that it truly doesn’t matter what he says

[wooden pendant]

yeah and simply cause it happend does not prove god is real

[thorny steeple]

universe inside universes? If it is regressive, then there isn't one beginning to begin with. If there is no beginning since it's a regression, then there was no beginning from the start

[thorny steeple]

Isaac Newton who gave laws of motion, universal gravitation, was into numerology

Scientists take him seriously when he gave evidence of what he find out true, by mathematics and experiments

he didn't gave evidence of numbers but just believed in it, and nobody takes him seriously in numerology

did u get the distinction?

[formal pilot]

I disagree

[toxic glade]

He effectively has the protection of the USA

[wooden pendant]

it happend then we are here

[winter smelt]

damn, killing all those civilians just to kill one nuclear scientist, Netanyahu is has been very naughty lately

[toxic glade]

Honestly, Netanyahu has been naughty his entire life

[wooden pendant]

poop coloured username detected opinion rejected

[toxic glade]

The global community is only now starting to notice

[formal pilot]

🫵 🏳️‍🌈

[toxic glade]

Likely because of the destabilization of global bonds with the USA

[thorny steeple]

i told u to be respectful

[toxic glade]

Israel has always been a US backed state, so people were hesitant to speak up about the atrocities

[wooden pendant]

nah he's my friend im jk

[wooden pendant]

emoji in username detected opinion rejected

[formal pilot]

It's alright, ik him

[tropic osprey]

suggest me yt channels similar to veritasium

[thorny steeple]

well anyway they didnt gave any evidence or well sound argument about God's existence, their position is flawed

and im gonna be still be atheistic about gods

[thorny steeple]

we souce

[thorny steeple]

Is it because you are blind to see what is an evidence or you think it's not an evidence from the start?

vcaouse

vsauce

[thorny steeple]

its fine an hour u havent presented any evidence

funfact (theres isnt any)

theres no fun in that tho

[formal pilot]

Worship Mexican lesbian lizards

[thorny steeple]

but u get my point

[thorny steeple]

Because you don't see it as evidence to begin with. I did all the time

[thorny steeple]

the bible is evidence?

Does not mean what I presented was false

[thorny steeple]

Do you skip my metaphysics lecture?

[thorny steeple]

metaphysics is a philosophy

also thats. fallacy

watch mker fallcy

[tropic osprey]

i think ur not thinking clearly about being
atheist, you are not researching your own thought.

[thorny steeple]

and first casue argument

[thorny steeple]

Can philosophy not be based on truth? It explains the existence of everything and the Bible is the truth

[thorny steeple]

what

philosophy aint evidence

I told you about Penrose's entropy 😭

😭

I told you about universe regression theory 😭

when

maybe i didnt see them

[thorny steeple]

Exactly

ok

im sorry about that

can u tell me which god u believe in?

and define that god

[thorny steeple]

Catholic Christian God

[thorny steeple]

ooh

catholic

[thorny steeple]

Do I worship a goddess

🤔

theres are 45,000 denominations in Christianity

and u choose catholic

how are u sure urs is ture?

true

[cosmic wolf]

Sounds weird to me

[thorny steeple]

not just u have a possibility of no god and god and lets assume god exist
but christian god and 1000 other religions and lets assume christianity is true
u still have one in a 40,000 chances more to be wrong about

can u understand how improbable it sounds to see which religion is true

in this going thru evidences would be the correct thing to find it

[thorny steeple]

Apostolic (Jesus -> Twelve Apostles -> Church Fathers) ✅
Consistent
Logical coherent

Faced Roman persecution (martyrs fed to lions, crucified, burned at the stake)
Arian heresy shook the institution (Church Fathers from Nicene tradition protected it)
Muslim raids in North Africa and Middle East.
Muslim raid sacked Rome
Black Death
Protestant Reformation (Both Catholics and Protestants waging war and killing others)
Enlightenment (birth of secular/atheist ideas)
World Wars
Communism (USSR purged Catholic priests and believers)
And modern relativism

The Church could have died since long time ago, but it remains the biggest religion, largest school network and charity, and the builder of Western civilisation (preserved classical Greek texts through the fall of Roman Empire)

This is what convinced me because in the Bible it says:

"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."

Peter, the first Pope. Peter, the Apostle.
"my church" = the Catholic Church

And the gates of hell cannot defeat it

[thorny steeple]

Because I thought about it and I came to the Apostolic Churches before my studies

It was either Catholic or Orthodox

[wooden pendant]

jews hinduism muslims and a lot more of those religions

are still alive

so that's not exactly a point

[thorny steeple]

I also thought about Islam, Buddhism (I was born in), and atheism (I found it empty and could not answer my questions, it only proved known creations, but not the Creator)

[thorny steeple]

slavery in bible ?

why is jesus advocating for it

[thorny steeple]

regulated Old Testament law

[thorny steeple]

He abolished it with the new covenant

[thorny steeple]

so old testament was wrong

so god would be wrong too

[thorny steeple]

It's not comparable to owning black slaves in Confederacy and exploiting them

[dire wing]

why tf is israel bragging bout iran getting a nuke since 1995

[turbid dome]

Need to manufacture consent for war

[thorny steeple]

He cries out as he hits someone

[thorny steeple]

they scared

[dire wing]

like who tf do they think they are

without america they are nothin

they think they can attack anyone and get away with it

[thorny steeple]

And what standard do you base it on that slavery is wrong?
Construction workers, do you think they are corporate slaves?

But they earn a wage, so that justifies it as more legitimate than Confederate slavery

[thorny steeple]

so slavery is right accoring to u?

uk right

ok

[dire wing]

https://tenor.com/view/am-daen-erys-stormecennd-wlta-ats-newith-fire-ant-blood-game-of-thrones-got-deanerys-hindi-gif-9863557491235523958

[thorny steeple]

this is bad

[thorny steeple]

Because it's not colonial slavery
It was a social class in ancient Israel

They were not whipped for not producing enough gains

ok this is enough

u have resorted to bigorty

and jusfifying slavery

even tho u know its immoral tho own another

Depends on how you interpret the essence of the word and the form of it

[toxic glade]

Current oligarchic societies like the USA function effectively as though slavery was never abolished in the first place, since the workers receive little to none of the value their labour produces, and it instead flows upward to the top 1%

I consider that kind of society to be incredibly immoral

[thorny steeple]

by the bible its fine to own a slave and beat him within few days if he doenst die

does this seem moral to u?

[thorny steeple]

Verse?

Oh, right. Exodus

[thorny steeple]

u havent read your own bible

exodus 21

"it is safe to assume that slave masters were not allowed carte blanche authority to do whatever they wanted to their slaves."
"slave owners are limited in what they can do: if the master goes too far and the slave dies, the master will be punished. If the Old Testament Law is followed consistently, then the punishment for the slave owner might even include the death penalty for murder."

do we have bible verse bot?

📖 Exodus 21:20–21 (simplified)
If a man beats his male or female slave with a stick and the slave dies right away, the owner must be punished.
But if the slave gets up after a day or two, the owner will not be punished, because the slave is his property.

its fine if he rises up with in two days

[wooden pendant]

@solemn frost

[thorny steeple]

[26] If any man strike the eye of his manservant or maidservant, and leave them but one eye, he shall let them go free for the eye which he put out. [27] Also if he strike out a tooth of his manservant or maidservant, he shall in like manner make them free.

Exodus 21:26-27

[solemn frost]

Exodus 21:26-27 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

<26> If any man strike the eye of his manservant or maidservant, and leave them but one eye, he shall let them go free for the eye which he put out. <27> Also if he strike out a tooth of his manservant or maidservant, he shall in like manner make them free.

BibleBot v11.2.0 by Kerygma Digital

[thorny steeple]

So was mistreatment allowed? I asked you

[wooden pendant]

but still slavery

owning a person

[thorny steeple]

WAIT WTF DID U SAY

[wooden pendant]

is not right in any way

[thorny steeple]

THE ONLY THING U SHOULD SAY TO A SLAVE IS TO RUN AWAY

[wooden pendant]

just cause they were treated good does not make it right

[toxic glade]

Based on these verses, yes, being a cruel slave owner was allowed

[thorny steeple]

is that moral masteur?

@thorny steeple yes or no

[wooden pendant]

exodus 21

[thorny steeple]

No because that interpretation is wrong to begin with

omg

[wooden pendant]

they always do that

[thorny steeple]

bye enough of ur bigotry

Being a cruel slave owner is punishable by the same law

[wooden pendant]

when something is wrong they say that interpretation is wrong

[thorny steeple]

i am not a christian and i am better then ur jesus

[wooden pendant]

Exodus 21:20–21

[thorny steeple]

bc i dont endorse slavery

ur full of shit

[toxic glade]

I don’t think he endorses slavery

[thorny steeple]

The Bible is a reliable moral guide.
The Bible allows slavery.
Therefore slavery cannot be morally reprehensible in all situations.

[toxic glade]

Okay nevermind

[thorny steeple]

pride speaking finally ur flesh is revealing

[thorny steeple]

jesus does tho

[toxic glade]

Tried to give him some grace, lol

[wooden pendant]

lmao

totally justified slavery

[thorny steeple]

bc i know what slavery is

[wooden pendant]

cause bible says s

not even trying to fight it

[thorny steeple]

I pasted that wrong bro wtf

i mean this is the thing with religion i dont like

[toxic glade]

According to the Bible, the Israelites may enslave whomever they choose, but not their fellow Israelites. Their fellow Israelites were instead what is effectively indentured servants

[thorny steeple]

uk its obivous theres a problem with the bible verse

and you know it

[wooden pendant]

im done bruh

no point anymore

[thorny steeple]

religion has made u so blind that u justify slavery

[toxic glade]

If you believe that the Bible is a strong guide for objective morality, then you have to grapple with the things we consider morally reprehensible that the Bible allows

Otherwise, you can choose to understand the Bible as a framework for the subjective moralities that societies adopt over time

[thorny steeple]

i have a question

does bible change when it comes to differnet christian denominations?

or they all use one bible with different interpretation

[toxic glade]

As far as I understand it (not a Christian) there are a few translations of the Bible which are different in some ways

There is also the distinction between Old Testament and New Testament, which are radically different

But beyond that, theologists have to interpret the Bible, so it naturally has deviations even within the same translation of the text

[thorny steeple]

Jesus didn't endorse slavery 😭

[toxic glade]

That is why there are so many different sects of Christianity

[thorny steeple]

u cant be this blind

[toxic glade]

Well no, he’s correct

[thorny steeple]

He established the new law

[toxic glade]

Jesus did not endorse slavery, because that was a commandment from God

[thorny steeple]

New covenant to abolish ancient Jewish law

[toxic glade]

But some sects believe Jesus and God to be one and the same

[thorny steeple]

even knew testament doenst condemns slavery but just talks in a gentle way about slavery

[thorny steeple]

the trinity?

[toxic glade]

For some, the Holy Trinity are merely different versions of the same being

Whereas other sects see them as more defined individual beings

[thorny steeple]

thats not the holy trinity then...

new testament

Ephesians 6:5–9
“Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.”

[gritty echo]

First Council of Nicaea , Second Council of Nicaea ,

[toxic glade]

Tell that to them, I guess

[thorny steeple]

Exodus 21:20–21 (simplified)
If a man beats his male or female slave with a stick and the slave dies right away, the owner must be punished.
But if the slave gets up after a day or two, the owner will not be punished, because the slave is his property.

[gritty echo]

The accepting of the bible from different writers in that time

[thorny steeple]

"slave is his property"

this is so clear

[gritty echo]

Funny fact is emperor Constantine was pagan and he ruled the councils

He choosed Christinas destiny

[thorny steeple]

anyway bible isnt moral

[thorny steeple]

how bro

tbh any religious books has some flaw

[thorny steeple]

the Bible doesn't

Exodus 21:20–21 (simplified)
If a man beats his male or female slave with a stick and the slave dies right away, the owner must be punished.
But if the slave gets up after a day or two, the owner will not be punished, because the slave is his property.

"exodus 21"

how much can u twist or bend to make this sentence look moral

this cant be words of a all good god

[toxic glade]

Objective morality, mind you, is not all-encompassing

There are many Christians who do not believe in the objective moral framework idea

[gritty echo]

Korintliler 11:5-6

"But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head—it is the same as having her head shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she might as well have her hair cut off; but if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should cover her head.

Timothy 2:11-12

A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.

[thorny steeple]

That was the old law in which the Israelites were involved in brutal bronze age environment. Why do you think Jesus come to establish new law so that people will stop following the old law?
That's not God changing his mind.

YHWH even regulated it with the Ten Commandments
No ancient society Egyptian, Babylonian, Greek, Roman abolished it in the Near East

Mosaic Law regulated it. The Bible tolerated it does not mean it endorsed it.
Babylonian law treated slaves as property without legal redress.
Mosaic law grants rights, and limited the sentence

Galatians 3:28 transformed slavery.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Paul to Philemon, Philemon 1:10-16
I appeal to you for my son Onesimus, whom I have begotten while in my chains, who once was unprofitable to you, but now is profitable to you and to me. I am sending him back. You therefore receive him, that is, my own heart, whom I wished to keep with me, that on your behalf he might minister to me in my chains for the gospel. But without your consent I wanted to do nothing, that your good deed might not be by compulsion, as it were, but voluntary. For perhaps he departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave but more than a slave — a beloved brother, especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

[solemn frost]

Galatians 3:28 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

<28> There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.

BibleBot v11.2.0 by Kerygma Digital

Philemon 1:10-16 - Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

<10> I beseech thee for my son, whom I have begotten in my bands, Onesimus, <11> Who hath been heretofore unprofitable to thee, but now is profitable both to me and thee, <12> Whom I have sent back to thee. And do thou receive him as my own bowels. <13> Whom I would have retained with me, that in thy stead he might have ministered to me in the bands of the gospel: <14> But without thy counsel I would do nothing: that thy good deed might not be as it were of necessity, but voluntary. <15> For perhaps he therefore departed for a season from thee, that thou mightest receive him again for ever: <16> Not now as a servant, but instead of a servant, a most dear brother, especially to me: but how much more to thee both in the flesh and in the Lord?

BibleBot v11.2.0 by Kerygma Digital

[gritty echo]

It is the fact there are so many different bible versions

And these versions are mostly written after 300 years from Jesus Dies.

First Council, Second Council

[mystic pebble]

What's so serious in here

[gritty echo]

And it is the fact , emperor 1.constantin ruled the Council

And He was the Pagan

[thorny steeple]

Douay Bible I read and use is based of Latin Vulgate compiled in 4th century, which is then based off Greek texts preserved

Sometimes I feel like atheists want empirical proof, but there is no enough proof for it turn into faith

One day you will understand. No enough proof will initiate serious faith in God

I followed this "lie" first, then I sought proof later

Because the mind sees proof. But the heart does not see

That I quit agnosticism

[toxic glade]

Bible studies, I guess

[gritty echo]

They are just beliefs, for it is important for spiritual peace

[mystic pebble]

Uh huh

[gritty echo]

If you believe you can if you don't you can too

Religions are as old as the starting of humanity

[toxic glade]

I think it would be more accurate to say that religion is as old as culture

[gritty echo]

Yes you can't describe the culture without religions

[thorny steeple]

so god was wrong about slavery and changed in the New Testament

[gritty echo]

For example Turkic History, there were Christians, Jews , Tengrist , Maneist , Buddhist , Muslim

[thorny steeple]

even worse

cus there still versus in new testament about slavery

[gritty echo]

Hazars was Jew

Some of turkic tribes went to Europe and became christian

[thorny steeple]

strawmanmaxxing

[thorny steeple]

can u understand one thing

[gritty echo]

Some of them go to Anatolia or Persia and become Muslim

[thorny steeple]

ur trying to justify slavery

[gritty echo]

These are just beliefs

[thorny steeple]

there would be no context in a way which supports a moral god with slavery

[thorny steeple]

there is no slavery in heaven...

slavery is a part of this world which is sinful

[gritty echo]

Why is it so important, you talking about slavery but most of the nations had slaves until 20th century

[thorny steeple]

its in bible

new testament as well as old one

okay..? that doesnt prove anything...

sin is in the bible too

[gritty echo]

And Most of countrys people are leaving life like modern slaves

What is the fact than

[thorny steeple]

And no moral universe could exist at all without God, yet you pretend it does and there are objective morals to define slavery as evil
If you don't believe in God, why don't you support slavery? There is no objective morality

it proofs that jesus advocated for slavery which isnt moral

[thorny steeple]

just cuz something is in the bible doesnt mean Jesus advocates for it broski

omg

this debate has turned in a way

[thorny steeple]

See. You are too blind with your pride. No amount of proof will make you believe not because there is no proof, but because you don't see it as proof

where we are discussing why slavery is good

[waxen vessel]

when he was alive is the point that was made

[toxic glade]

I mean, it’s an honest question

[toxic glade]

If you don’t believe in an objective moral framework, where do you derive your personal morality?

[thorny steeple]

the Bible never says slavery is okay. Read and understand the book of Philemon broskis

[toxic glade]

For me, I believe in a framework of harm reduction

[thorny steeple]

well being of humans

we dont need morality from a book

[thorny steeple]

This just shows you're not actually looking for proof

You can live this way

I cannot force you to believe in God

"proof"

[thorny steeple]

ur saying bible isnt gods word?