🧠｜serious-chat

[manic juniper]

Only Koreans are allowed to eat at game cafés

[verbal abyss]

We got you Zinx

[verbal abyss]

It was pretty logically that he is from one of three Asian most popular countries

Hope he is northern korean ♥️

[sharp creek]

people who chat on discord will be executed in north korea

i hope you dont want me to be executed

[dapper laurel]

Where is he from?

Did you understand?

[verbal abyss]

Must be Korea

[dapper laurel]

Why?

[verbal abyss]

Do you remember when i asked him 5 question to realize where is he from

[dapper laurel]

No

[dapper laurel]

I do not

[verbal abyss]

So that time i understood there are only 3 options and now Isfrun made some investigations to finally get it

[dapper laurel]

What kind of investigations?

It's getting weird

[verbal abyss]

Read higher

[dapper laurel]

Summarize

@sharp creek Zinx, my dear friend, I hope that you one day will reveal your country

[verbal abyss]

He said he haven't seen black people, its not much rainy there, its in Asia, it has its own alphabet, named popular games in his country

And something else

[dapper laurel]

Not even a black person?

Not even one?

[verbal abyss]

Yeah

Its pretty common in such countries as Korea China Japan

[dapper laurel]

Just too weird

[verbal abyss]

Why

I maybe seen 3 or 4 in Russia

But way more in other countries

[dapper laurel]

How come I've seen all kinds of ethnicities here, and they in Asia never see a single black person in their entire lives?

Not even tourists?

From America

[dapper laurel]

It depends on what area of Russia

I don't think people want to immigrate to Siberia

It's perfectly reasonable

I see at least 2/3 of them a day

[verbal abyss]

I guess one in moscow and 2-3 in my hometown

[dapper laurel]

Bus, train, school

[manic juniper]

I never saw a black person until I was 6 or older

I thought he was sick because I never saw a man looking that dark before

[verbal abyss]

I remember how we were walking around mall in Moscow city and there was a black man in smart home room in the technologies store

[verbal abyss]

When i first time saw black man i asked him for high five

Its pretty common for any russians no matter 10 or 50 years old to say n word

Its not something insulting there

[dapper laurel]

It's a compliment

[verbal abyss]

But it has a bit different pronunciation

Similar

[verbal abyss]

[dapper laurel]

I was doing an ethnic analysis on Italy and I realized that the Italian ethnicity does not exist

[verbal abyss]

There is pretty famous ice cream little shop with maybe 3-4 racist ice cream types

With Jews, blacks, americans and ukranians

[dapper laurel]

The South and the North should be separated

[verbal abyss]

[dapper laurel]

No matter what

[verbal abyss]

Those are names of jce creams

I remember one called poor jew

[dapper laurel]

Sometimes Russia surprises me

[verbal abyss]

How

So who you are

[verbal abyss]

That's a small business

[dapper laurel]

I'm just nobody, no real identity at this point

[verbal abyss]

But there is also a cake called n* into the foam

[verbal abyss]

Sounds empty

[dapper laurel]

I remember that the craziest ice cream I ever ate was Peppa Pig's

It was shaped like Peppa Pig

[verbal abyss]

I would not surprise its soo common for me

I used to enjoy fully black ice cream

[dapper laurel]

I'll have to send a picture of those ice creams

I have kept some of them

[verbal abyss]

Go ahead

[dapper laurel]

But not now

I'm gonna sleep

[verbal abyss]

Why so

[dapper laurel]

Because now I'm in my little bed ready to read and sleep and I'm too tired to get up

[verbal abyss]

Bro be like me in kindergarten

[plucky elk]

Hii y'all

[turbid dome]

https://www.dw.com/en/germany-updates-migrants-have-imported-antisemitism-says-merz/live-72811723

merz preparing to take the AfD approach

[manic juniper]

I'm from 🇰🇵 can I participate?

Get zapped then

[static pivot]

@manic juniper

why you trolling

[verbal abyss]

What was there

[river acorn]

Hi, guys I'm new over here what's the main purpose of this topic ?

[verbal abyss]

Here is no topic for now

[river acorn]

Ok but the name of the channel is not really relates with some of your conversation I see that people talk about ice cream 😂

[olive fractal]

it's not entirely wrong tbh

most migrants in germany come from other european countries and only came to germany for better pay

and, you know, those are just people as well

[wild sapphire]

He got struck by the suck cannon

[manic juniper]

It deserved trolling

[manic juniper]

AI cryptobro

[olive fractal]

mammalian scrap

[manic juniper]

It wanted people from certain backgrounds to join it, racist

[manic juniper]

We call this "mammal in disguise"

[static pivot]

Isfrun join VCS and debate

[manic juniper]

AI breaks if a crocodile chomps it

[verbal abyss]

Such as ?

[static pivot]

Why text only?

[wild sapphire]

I think I begin to understand this line of rhetoric

[static pivot]

don't you wanna improve your speaking skills?

[manic juniper]

Because I'm shy and I don't like how my accent sounds

[olive fractal]

a fully grown Sarcosuchus could wipe out an entire serverfarm

[static pivot]

We have shy VCS in server

Join them

[manic juniper]

I speak English 5 days out of 7 with B2/C1 people (minimum) and it still sucks, my English is beyond saving

[wild sapphire]

Bunch of people being quiet

[static pivot]

Come vc lemme judge your accent

[static pivot]

right

[verbal abyss]

How is it even possible

[static pivot]

They do speak

Time to time

[manic juniper]

Didn't Nabi make a guess about my voice sounding stupid already

I think he could be right for once

[static pivot]

leave nabi

You're talking to the server owner

[manic juniper]

I'm wondering the same thing

[static pivot]

The man himself

So dw. I don't judge

[manic juniper]

It's like bashing your head on an osmium wall, it'll never break. That's me with English pronunciation and accent

[verbal abyss]

What the hell is this on your pfp

[manic juniper]

I sound like this
https://youtu.be/SH4i16oI0Sk

[static pivot]

accents are OK

[verbal abyss]

I wish accent was the only problem

[turbid dome]

lol I’m sure it’s not as bad as you think it is

[manic juniper]

A Thugs-4-Less henchman

[static pivot]

Not clicking your scam links

[manic juniper]

My accent is worse than that now that I'm listening to him again

[verbal abyss]

I mean its pretty simple to oppress someone with this accent

[olive fractal]

omg Isfrun is speaking Rally English

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_English

[static pivot]

Vro i don't get it. Why are you so worried about your accent

It doesn't change a thing

[verbal abyss]

The strangest design decision ever

[static pivot]

as long as you pronounce them words right

[wild sapphire]

People like talking to people for themselves not their accents

[manic juniper]

Icelanders have the same accent if they suck as much as I do, I think it's interesting since we are unrelated

[static pivot]

I deleted all accent roles from this server 3 years ago

[turbid dome]

Yeah it’s an awesome accent as for me it’s very clear

[manic juniper]

Because my mum's accent sounds stupid and I always think it's funny, I bet others think the same about my accent

[static pivot]

Accents are beautiful. This is how you people know who they are talking to

You guys know AlanG?

[olive fractal]

I personally couldn't care less tbh

[verbal abyss]

Does she pronounce like a hard R

[olive fractal]

isn't he one of the blokes who do english lessons

[static pivot]

Yes

[manic juniper]

She has the heaviest most stereotypical Russian accent ever conceived and possible

[static pivot]

He doesn't do English lessons tbh

He does self improvement stuffs

[manic juniper]

If you hear her talking any language you'd think she's making a racist caricature of a Russian until you realise that's how she talks

[verbal abyss]

Rrrrrrrussia 🇱🇺🇱🇺🇱🇺🤛🏿🤛🏿🤛🏿☝🏿

[manic juniper]

It's so bad it's funny

[turbid dome]

That’s awesome lol

[static pivot]

Come vc

Let's talk

[olive fractal]

have you ever seen My Summer Car's Early Access trailer?

[manic juniper]

Bro my vacations started few hours ago, I finally don't have to talk much for 14 days straight

I don't want to ruin them

[static pivot]

Yeah no excuses

Join or ban

[olive fractal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzPdPYtqBt0

gotta love finns

[mint pagoda]

Amazing

[static pivot]

[manic juniper]

Lemme check

[static pivot]

First time I am trying to help someone

[manic juniper]

Let me check the video first, then I can get banned

[static pivot]

alright

[verbal abyss]

Bye Isfrun

No more monkeys and reptiles

[wild sapphire]

This video makes me laugh but yes it’s a good accent

[manic juniper]

Reminds me of sauna cottage simulator

[manic juniper]

Download the monkey photo before I'm gone

[verbal abyss]

Is it your legacy for me ????

Alright send it

[turbid dome]

Lmao

[olive fractal]

very round, very powerful, very beautiful

[olive fractal]

an absolutely rotund specimen

[verbal abyss]

Everything alright with you?

Just curious

[olive fractal]

no, not really

spent the entire arvo trying to fix my roof

[verbal abyss]

Thats sad to hear bro

[verbal abyss]

What happened to your roof

[olive fractal]

bunch of shingles got blown off it

[wild sapphire]

I love the way he rolls his r’s

[verbal abyss]

$82000😵‍💫 A price of a little studio apartments somewhere in suburban Moscow

[wild sapphire]

I wish I could do that 😔

[wild sapphire]

Paradise

[verbal abyss]

I can

[wild sapphire]

As long as it has working sewage and electricity

[verbal abyss]

Most russians can't do the sound of R that you americans do

[manic juniper]

That's expensive but maybe it's because of the location

[olive fractal]

visit a few Rallies and talk to some finns

[verbal abyss]

This house is expesive ?

[turbid dome]

They can if you force them lol

[manic juniper]

My home wasn't worth nearly as much and it's next to a lake with an island like that

[olive fractal]

rally racing is basically Finland's national sport

[manic juniper]

Yes, these are holiday houses, these are worth nothing because you can't live a normal life in them

They are too isolated from civilisation

My home is the same yet it's not on an island in the middle of nowhere. It's at least somewhat close to the lake

[verbal abyss]

I couldn't do it as well as it was supposed to sound in Russian and even visited logopedist in childhood
But then i taught myself like somehow

[manic juniper]

Before they took the sauna championship away

[olive fractal]

😔

[verbal abyss]

Fishing and personal garden, the harmony

[manic juniper]

Endless mosquito infestation

[verbal abyss]

I also saw this once
But im pretty sure it was sold in 1 day

Or this one
Is Japan a spawn point of cheap houses

[verbal abyss]

Living there for a decades make you as harmonic with nature that mosquitoes don't even bother you

[olive fractal]

isn't that because renovating them is a PITA

[manic juniper]

If there is one thing I learned from capitalism is: cheap means caveat

[wild sapphire]

It’s a toss up between mosquitos and chihuahuas

[manic juniper]

Chihuahuas can't survive there

[verbal abyss]

Maybe
But it was reasoned

Based on demographic issues i guess

[manic juniper]

It'd get hunted by a wolf or a lynx

[manic juniper]

Those increase greed

[wild sapphire]

They should put that in the brochure

[manic juniper]

Fewer people with more money and resources

[verbal abyss]

Even they are in harmony with each other

[static pivot]

This is a nice deal

[verbal torrent]

Bro whaa its 3 mil turk lira
Its cheap i think bcz like u buy the whole land and its ur own

[formal pilot]

Can't grow food in that small island, pass

You can get nearly 30 acres for 500k, in a good fertile spot in Sweden

Newzealand also got relatively cheap farms

[manic juniper]

You can fish food

[thorny steeple]

@dapper laurel https://youtu.be/ztmndDy9-s4?si=u4y6TDvszTc1WO-3 English being broken because it was heavily latinized lol

@ocean tapir also it's funny how oneguy was saying"what genocide" in response to Armenian genocide

These are same people that cry first about Levant Europe Asia when their community is victim

Yk when I read about Armenian genocide it felt kinda similar to how non Muslim Bengalis were attacked by local tribes of "that" religion but it wasn't talked about or this that and the mass deportations and all

I feel really bad for Armenian Greeks Assyrians Kurds and some Arabs
But mostly for actual Turks like you who are educated with the truth unbiased and honest you have to deal with a dictator and his facist followers for 3 decades now

[ocean tapir]

Bro we already had 2 civil wars 98 war crimes 102 massacres and 3 empires collapsing from this debate between him and I so I'm kinda too angry to try to speak about this BUT

I really feel that Indians and Pakistanis and Bengalis are just too focused on attacking religion. For example and Indian muslim in Turkey recently got arrested by saying disgusting stuff about turkish women and sexual assault. And every comment was filled with "he is also muslim screw islam" and stuff. Islam or any religion doesn't have to do with the bad things done by a member of that religion.

[thorny steeple]

Oh yea Definetly with second part I agree south Asia is too focused on religious extremism
The comments are filled with "lundia or l-ism down dung eaters Hindus are Satanists r*ists " or what not when something about India is said same thing when muslims so stuff all hate goes to Islam like seriously south Asian Pakistan India Bangladesh they all are wayy too focused on religious extremism

It's both sides sadly this side hates them and that side hates this
Lot's of accounts from Pak Ind Bangladesh insult Hinduism Islam even normal people seeing that start spreading hate
This causes such issues too that like Indian muslims begin aligning with Pakistan on several stuff and when pakis spread hate about India then they stay silent do nothing but if u insult Pakistan back as an Indian they will be first to stop u becz pakis are "ummah boryhers/not all like this that" but same folks often let pakis insult India and sometimes even join in and seeing this betrayal also causes normal people who defend muslims against right wing to become anti muslim
But u see lotta hate from Pakistan Bangladesh to India Hindus too "cow piss drinker" this that and even Indian muslims stay silent or laugh and say that as jokes to Indian Hindus in literally any video of normal where even religion is not talked about they'll bring insulting comments

South Asia is really really complicated
Best I'd say to stay neutral on all topics or to support a left/secular govt run country

[thorny steeple]

Also as per first point dude this "pan Turkic unification" or imperialist ideology is one of reason why people become pro Russia to balance out turkey

[thorny steeple]

And as a secular unbiased person I'm totally on ur side,
Any religion doesn't have to do with the bad things done by a member of that religion.
Ur totally correct!
All religions community should be respected

[thorny steeple]

Ye ur totally right here muslims are just like right wing Hindutva and Hindus just like islamists always spreading hate against eachother generalising one sided narrative then playing victim card when someone does it to them

But one thing you'll find that more Hindus are secular and condemn hindutva than Muslims condemning islamist extremism

[ocean tapir]

I support this a lot:

"No mercy for evil.
No tolerance of intolerance.
No peace for the warmonger."

As long as the person I'm talking to doesn't support c-tting heads or 🍇 , I'd have mercy, tolerance and peace for him/her. But if that's not the case, don't expect no mercy nor tolerance nor peace from me.

Other than that, I support respect for all and each communities. And as a muslim, I really HATE and CONDEMN Islamist extremisim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemalism#:~:text=Kemalism (Turkish%3A Kemalizm%2C also,(Turkish%3A Altı Ok).

I suggest you to read

[thorny steeple]

Of course

[wild sapphire]

Plays like an action adventure game and I love the way the world actually feels populated

[turbid dome]

Never did I think I would see the 6 arrows on discord

Kemalism

[ocean tapir]

well you got me so welcome

[thorny steeple]

Guys, what do you think?

[wild sapphire]

Totally wrong, I am not close to finding all the gadgets I think- I filled up the quick tool wheel but they keep adding new mechanics and items, and I love how they let you play as Clank. I love how many ideas and things they shoved into this game, lol. This is one of the older games that actually lives up to its fan hype, unlike say Ocarina which let me down lol

[shy summit]

How is it that every time I open the chat it’s just you citing some anti-queer legislation 🤣

[turbid dome]

I just checked the insta account he got it from. It’s insane 😭

[shy summit]

EYO… Bro wtf is this account

It’s nothing but anti-queer shit

Tf kinda algorithm you got on your insta if this is being recom’d to you

[manic juniper]

Meatchecked

[manic juniper]

The second game has more activities

People say they exaggerated because half of them suck

[wild sapphire]

Lol

You don’t speak highly of two much

[manic juniper]

What

It's my favourite

And over time most fans changed their opinion to like 2 over 3 more

[wild sapphire]

Mmm I have heard you critique the story as not very good and you just said half the activities suck lol

[manic juniper]

The story is really really bad but who cares

[toxic raft]

Yoooo it's bumper fish 🐟

[manic juniper]

The humour is still peak and I don't play for a deep story in the PS2 games

The story isn't bad for any reason in particular, it's just a very simple and straightforward story

[thorny steeple]

Yo

[wild sapphire]

Hello!

Forgive me but I don’t exactly remember who you are lol

[wild sapphire]

The humor is quite good in the first game too

You can tell they had fun making this game

[wild sapphire]

That’s not necessarily a bad thing

I will have to judge it when I get there Lord willing

I don’t need every story to be an overly subversive deeply philosophical narrative masterpiece like Last Jedi

I enjoy the characters and that does a lot of lifting

You like spending time with people you love even if they say nothing particularly interesting

[wild sapphire]

Hope you are well! I wouldn’t mind a reminder though lol

I would say New Hope is a simple story and it’s a great time- and you love spending time with the friend family that is Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie and the rest

[manic juniper]

The story has no direction compared to the first and third games

It was an afterthought and placeholder

[wild sapphire]

Ooooh interesting

Gameplay was priority?

All these new activities you alluded to

[manic juniper]

They didn't have a writer for the first game either

They focused on the dynamic between Ratchet and Clank, which isn't a thing in the second because they were done with the dynamic

[wild sapphire]

Mmmmmm

Lol i dont know what to expect from this game

I wouldnt say ratchet and clank’s story is overly complex either tbf

[manic juniper]

It's not

[wild sapphire]

Its mainly a series of character interactions which are fun and entertaining

[manic juniper]

It simply has good chemistry

The remake had nothing of this

[wild sapphire]

Iddkkk Isfrun lol you got me curious

[manic juniper]

It's crazy how they killed off Ratchet at the end of the first game

[wild sapphire]

Okkaaaay okaaay

[manic juniper]

Oh wait that was a spoiler isn't it

[wild sapphire]

[manic juniper]

[wild sapphire]

Hold on i know what to say to this

[wild sapphire]

I can definitely see why this is a favorite of yours

[wild sapphire]

Obviously I mean this in the best possible light

[terse lodge]

Are there only 44 sounds in the English language?

[toxic raft]

Hahaha u forgot about me how sad.. but hope you are doing well as well

[turbid dome]

23 days until Gurbanguly Berdimuhamadow turns 68

[marsh tapir]

Seriously, Eid Mubarak

[wild sapphire]

@high dragon in here lol

[plucky elk]

Take a look at capybara's they rr so cute & chill af

[wild sapphire]

I like horses

[plucky elk]

Lmaoo fair enough

[slender coral]

People dehumanize female sex workers for absolutely no reason other than doing something they don't like.

[wild sapphire]

I dont think you quite get it

The people who exploit them are also dehumanizing them

This disgusting industry strips them of what makes them human

The entire thing is predatory

Physical intimacy without psychological intimacy- seeing a person as a body and not as a mind, not as a person with thoughts and feelings, just as food to satiate your hunger

[wild sapphire]

Okay another thing I like- in Blackwater City you have npc vs npc battles, which I always love, adds immersion and just fun to watch, and I also love that you can take the cab to another part of the city without it cutting to loading screen, this game has the cool stuff lol

I feel like gamers made this game

[slender coral]

You can seek physical intimacy without psychological intimacy and still see the person as human.

[wild sapphire]

Right

Predatory behavior

Okay

[slender coral]

How?

What's predatory about not considering a woman less than a human for doing something she either wanna do or needs to to feed herself?

[wild sapphire]

The whole premise is a vile one

[slender coral]

You can dislike sex work all you want, I don't like it as well. But looking at people like this is so harmful to them. And it really saddens me. People go on and on about how sex work is hurtful for women who do it as if it's inherently hurtful to these women when in reality what really hurt them are those who claim they wanna protect them.

[wild sapphire]

If a woman needs food or money

[high dragon]

Ya

[wild sapphire]

You won’t give it unless she gives her body to you

Atrocious mindset, disgusting behavior

You are the one encouraging people to look at them in a harmful way

To dehumanize them for participating in the action is bad

To dehumanize them by participating with them in the action is also bad

Have you heard of Susan Fiske and her research?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/women-as-sex-objects-09-02-17/#:~:text=Princeton psychologist Susan Fiske presented,as people react to objects."

[slender coral]

Isn't this how capitalist societies work? You would not be able to help everyone no matter how hard you try. What's happening here is that you are reducing them to the thing they do that you don't like.

[wild sapphire]

Screw your capitalist society

Excuse to prey on people

Get that cow manure out of here

[slender coral]

I'm not a capitalist don't worry 😅

[wild sapphire]

People aren’t products to be used, or abused, or consumed

[slender coral]

But it's how reality is in most countries today, sadly.

[wild sapphire]

No I am not

What is happening is that I value and cherish their humanity too highly to let this industry continue unopposed

You are a sick individual

[slender coral]

Yo, chill.

[slender coral]

Oppose the industry all you want. I just wish people stop hating on women in it.

[wild sapphire]

They shouldn’t do that either

[slender coral]

It certainly doesn't help them

[wild sapphire]

No it doesn’t

But at the same time imagine the resentment other women feel knowing these women are attempting to appeal to their men indiscriminately- conscience does not come into play in this work, and they don’t help encourage men to humanize women either

Men end up treating women like the grossly exaggerated caricatures they see in films and media

[slender coral]

If a man seeks these type of things when he is in a relationship he is the problem not the sex worker.

[wild sapphire]

It is a vicious cycle

It is entirely predatory

There is no value or merit in it

Do not act like it is some virtuous act to pay a woman after she has sold herself to you for sex

[slender coral]

I think this attitude hurts women instead of helping them. This kind of attitude is what gets women in need to get thrown in a dark cell or killed in many places around the world for trying to survive.
Once before, there was a porn star who sued a man in the team she was working with for sexual harassment, the reaction I saw online was people saying she deserved it and shouldn't expect to be treated with dignity. We can pass laws to limit exploitation, but this attitude is really the main cause of damage from what I see.
This hate and anger is what pushes these women to worse mental and physical health, all seeing them as sex toys rather than someone who is doing a job regardless of whether you like this job or not.

[wild sapphire]

You keep trying to justify your inanity by painting it as “if you don’t support the industry, you are dehumanizing the women who are active in it”

You are wrong

The reality is this: if you treat them as dogs because you don’t approve of their behavior, you are wrong

If you support the industry, you are also enabling them to be treated as objects by the people who would use them for their bodies

You are part of the bigger problem

Concede and remove yourself from the side of enabling evil

Help them to get out of this

She did not deserve to be sexually harassed nor does she deserve to live in a world in which the only way for her to survive is to sell herself

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[wild sapphire]

To pick between her predator or her accuser is awful, where is her ally who would extend her help without consuming her as product

Who would treat her as human only, worth help, worth dignity, and acknowledgement

[thorny steeple]

hi

[pale mango]

Wsg my man

[thorny steeple]

mathsss

wbyy

[pale mango]

Hell no have an exam?
Biology

[wild sapphire]

@high dragon hello madam

[thorny steeple]

nope , just studying , i like to torture myself , my way of self harm lol

[pale mango]

Yoooo w @thorny steeple

[turbid dome]

On sex work, since this is apparently the topic:

there is a real problem of dehumanizing of sex workers. There is certainly a coercive element where sex workers and especially women, feel the need to sell their bodies for money. This is a problem of capitalism, a system which relies on unequal distribution of basic necessities, and thus leaves some desperate people a coercive avenue into sex work. The solution, therefore, would be to provide a basic standard of living for all people to where this coercive element is removed and sex work is voluntary.

Of course, there are other remaining issues. By not legalizing sex work, it will inevitably become a black market, and there will be an increase in crimes against sex workers as well as human trafficking. By legalizing and regulating sex work, it allows sex workers to have more security, legal avenues for fair compensation and protection under the law, and reduces human trafficking, exploitation, etc.

[thorny steeple]

bahwahah

[wild sapphire]

@slender coral you want to help them, and I am sorry because I genuinely get quite angry about this topic, but I choose to believe your intentions are good ones

I genuinely feel this industry has done immense harm to women, not the least of which is how it simultaneously brings the women vilification from their detractors, and dehumanizes them in the eyes of their clients and consumers

I’m sorry for not keeping a clearer head

It makes me angry

[sharp creek]

In many villages in my country, the average income is about $90 per month, its common to see people die from hunger
so they go to a whorehouse in big city, to make money , its like about $300 per night
just a business, if there was someone who wants me, i would sell my body ahahahahah

[turbid dome]

That’s terrible.

[sharp creek]

its really common sir, nobody wants to sell the body by nature

[turbid dome]

Yeah I could imagine how rare it would be if economic pressures were removed

[sharp creek]

why do you delete your message !!!

[wild sapphire]

I measure my words

[sharp creek]

aaaaaa why are you being shy suddenly, like an adolescent girl

[thorny steeple]

LMAO

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[feral river]

SUPPLY AND DEMAND

there's demand, there's supply, there's market, there's price

[thorny steeple]

A lot of jobs would become rare if the economic pressure were to be removed.

[feral river]

and SEX IS THEIR DEVEINED FUCKING FREEDOM

🇺🇸

[thorny steeple]

Chill chill chill

[feral river]

if somebody encroach our divine right to sex, we will go to war

we will bring freedom and democracy to everywhere

[thorny steeple]

Alright but in America you don't talk like that

[wild sapphire]

John do you know Minecraft

[high dragon]

Fish

[wild sapphire]

Madam

[high dragon]

Can you make a board game

[wild sapphire]

How are you?

[thorny steeple]

Ye

[wild sapphire]

Lol you mean invent the rules for one

[wild sapphire]

I mean the one from mainland China

[high dragon]

Nah invent new game with new rules

[wild sapphire]

Yeah yeah

And then what

[high dragon]

Do it then

[wild sapphire]

Is this for a project of yours

Or just fun

[high dragon]

Not mine but 3rd grade student

[thorny steeple]

Nahh but heard of it

[high dragon]

That's not child holiday homework that's parents homework lol

[wild sapphire]

Oh gosh a math board game

[high dragon]

If ur roll number lies between 1 to 19
Otherwise maths dictionary
What they expect from 3rd grade student

[wild sapphire]

I have a game idea for a math board game

[high dragon]

Tell me but problem is to create a one is headache

[wild sapphire]

It’s called Irrational Numbers

The way it works is that in order to move around the board, you have to solve math problems as dictated by a card you pull each turn

The winner is the one who manages to get to the end goal before everyone else

[high dragon]

I don't think so irrational number is a 3rd grade topic

[wild sapphire]

The way you play the game is to take it and throw it in the garbage after setting it on fire

[high dragon]

I share this homework in other server and people say it's parents homework not children

[wild sapphire]

What grade is this?

I dont think it sounds that hard tbh

I mean my idea would work fine except for the fire

Either assignment sounds reasonable

[high dragon]

3rd

[wild sapphire]

It probably does need some parent intervention I suppose

If the teacher does not model it sufficiently

It would probably work better as a classroom project

[high dragon]

Here irrational numbers are in 9th and 10th grade

[high dragon]

But that's summer holidays homework

[wild sapphire]

What a great way to spend summer

How fun

[wild sapphire]

What would you call it

[thorny steeple]

The problem is that most of the right wing's so-called "concerns" about women's well-being or mistreatment are really just an intellectual smokescreen for their real motives to ban it. The well-being of poor people and women is one of the last things they actually care about. What really drives their opposition is that it happens to go against their religious taboos and disrupts the status quo, where women's bodies are supposed to belong to their husbands. So when a woman doesn't follow those rules, or worse, makes money by breaking them, it makes them furious.

[high dragon]

What u mean

[wild sapphire]

It’s hard to come up with a good name for a math related board game

Nothing sounds good

Because math by nature is not fun

It is almost impossible to make it fun

[high dragon]

Oh u mean name although love give me one idea

[wild sapphire]

Similar to mine

[high dragon]

Let's see

I will show u when it is finalized

[wild sapphire]

You are making this?

Is it for a sibling?

You are actually going to make this a game?

[high dragon]

Niece

[scenic folio]

Mhmm

[wild sapphire]

Cute, lol and ofc you are doing their homework

[high dragon]

With help of family

[scenic folio]

Whats with long nails tho

[wild sapphire]

Good grief

It’s an entire family project

[thorny steeple]

The problem of dehumanization of sex workers is laregly a result of a 2,000-year tradition of religiously inspired paranoia around sex — rooted almost entirely in Abrahamic faiths.

[wild sapphire]

Well good luck lol

I hope your family gets a good grade

[high dragon]

Lol

[wild sapphire]

You are arguing against a straw man and likely seek to justify predatory behaviors

[feral river]

Rooted in some toilet paper nobody gives a fuck yeah

LAW/RULE WITHOUT ENFORCEMENT IS TOILET PAPER

[formal pilot]

I'd get tired and that island is most likely floating

[verbal abyss]

Whatcha saying

[verbal abyss]

That's an incredible deal for holidays house

[formal pilot]

Fair enough
||Y'all are too rich to be alive ||

https://tenor.com/view/meme-our-now-gif-21036569

[manic juniper]

Mammals

[verbal abyss]

Why do i see swastika

[formal pilot]

Because your instincts are saying to invade Poland

[slender coral]

I never said you should support the industry at all. I'm just saying don't hate women in it.

[feral river]

Equality on all professions, there’s no such division of categories based on decency

As long as they could generate values and that benefit the nation and people

Values above all

The invisible hand of market will adjust everything perfectly fine also ensuring they are affordable

Also it was decent or not, doesn’t matter in modern society, only its legal status

decency is backed by nothing but some shit, our law is backed by the guns

[slender coral]

I see decency as utilitarian values.

True decency

Not some bs we inherented from our ancestors

[manic juniper]

Random thing, men do it: "We don't care"
Random thing, women do it: "She's a wh*re"

[slender coral]

Frrrrrrr

I swear to fucking god it's just like that

Especially in conservative societies.

[manic juniper]

It says a lot that all these terms are used or made specifically for women

[rocky coyote]

weren't you all talking about sex work

[manic juniper]

No I didn't

[feral river]

the only true decency is backed by guns

all of others are all toilet papers

[slender coral]

We were yeah. I think people shouldn't hate female sex workers even if they consider sex work as a bad thing.

[night cedar]

wth is this

[manic juniper]

Thugs-4-Less leader

[feral river]

these losers can do nothing about it

whatever they think it's bad, nobody gives a fuck

[verbal abyss]

Brokers be hating rich onlyfans woman

[feral river]

the real world dominate by elites not regular street assholes

[verbal abyss]

🤑

[feral river]

the only thing they can do is accept our rule with no question

[slender coral]

It seems like many do actually give a fuck, that's why female sex workers live misrable lives often.

I'm speaking worldwide, not only in the west.

[feral river]

example? I don't see how they are living a misrable life with 4000 USD a month

[verbal abyss]

Thats false wait a minute

[feral river]

they are sex workers, not sex slaves

they got paid, most of them are very fucking rich

what the fuck on earth you are talking about these people

I think it's somebody want to portray they are living a very miserable life and that was completely bullshit

the truth is they may generate more income than most of you

[verbal abyss]

Couldn't find correct graphic i seen once gotta admit you are right

[manic juniper]

Aren't those the 1%

[verbal abyss]

It showed that most sex workers dont even get 800$
But in America its one of the highest paid job

[feral river]

never underestimate how much income in a service industry would generate

you will only being jealous about it

[verbal abyss]

There are too many them to make everyone rich

Outside USA only little minority get normal amount of money

[verbal abyss]

There is an unbelievable difference between popular and average sex worker's incomes

[olive fractal]

aren‘t most sexworkers forced into the industry anyway

[feral river]

dude we are not living in 17th century or before that

[verbal abyss]

Rare occasion

Sometimes they get to sex slavery going to typical job that not even related with nudity

But its pretty easy to realize that you are going to slavery seeing vacancy

Who even goes to job that only looks for women 😂😂

[olive fractal]

I don’t think pimps have been a thing in the 17th century

[feral river]

somehow that even exist in 20th century or even today but I don't count the region or the state which are almost not existing in the world

we are talking a general global scale, that only represent the modern nations

[olive fractal]

You don’t consider the US as a modern nation?

[feral river]

in most cases I don't think sex slaves largely exist, and most sex workers do generate significant income than most of other guys

[feral river]

obviously I do

[olive fractal]

Well, pimps are absolutely still a thing in the US (aka a modern nation).

More often than not do they lure naive young women into working for them using predatory tactics.

[manic juniper]

Even monkeys have sex workers

[sharp creek]

...

[feral river]

are pimps sex slave or sex worker ?

I think you need to clarify it

my argument was the sex slave, who are being forced to join the industry, have no freedom, do not largely exist in modern nations

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[feral river]

not sex workers, sex workers exist everywhere

except North Korea

that's because the North Korean people already have their supreme leader Kim Jong Un and their eternal supreme leader Kim iI Sung and Kim Jong Il

they don't have sex desires

[sharp creek]

hahahahahaha its always interesting here

[feral river]

we are fucking ass for the country! for the supreme leader KIm Jong Un

it's not that bad to live in a totalitarian state under one leader

but it's quite bad to have such economy situation in that state

notably, North Korea's birth rate is above South Korea

[sharp creek]

i agree, because changing the situation is quite hard there

[feral river]

that could be one of the greatest achievement of the supreme leader, and also showing how weak their illegitmate South Korean government actually is

[sharp creek]

pls join us

[olive fractal]

a man who controls prostitutes, especially by finding customers for them, and takes some of the money that they earn
Most of the time the relationships are absolutely predatory

[olive fractal]

Are you unironically supporting NK?

[thorny steeple]

Fr how's rachet and clank going?

[sharp creek]

it cant be unironically are you serious

[olive fractal]

I‘m still not sure if that minecraft guy is just a troll or an insane keyboard warrior

[manic juniper]

I'm not playing it

[sharp creek]

absolutely the latter !!!

[manic juniper]

Supreme leader
looks inside
He's a mammal

Can't be serious

[thorny steeple]

alright

[olive fractal]

I definitely need to replay Conker

[thorny steeple]

we need the reptile overlords!

[sharp creek]

but i agree with most of his weird speech

[olive fractal]

Once I‘m done playing Skylandwrs

[olive fractal]

That guy has some of the worst takes I‘ve ever seen

[sharp creek]

you will find another one soon

[manic juniper]

And you've only seen 1% of them

[thorny steeple]

and you have seen the 99% lol

[sharp creek]

well i m always learning from him,
'without power xxxx is just toilet paper'
'xxxx is a war machine'

[olive fractal]

[olive fractal]

Well, as long as he doesn’t claim that VAG‘s cars are genuinely good

I‘m good

[sharp creek]

fk cant believe that no one interested with prostitute issues

[rocky coyote]

it can get too obnoxious at times and reading superfluous sentences just to get simple points through is tiring. i prefer lurking

besides i'll be busy with work before i can give my two cents on anything

[thorny steeple]

true lurking is da best of the two worlds

[feral river]

that is called "broker"

that's totally legal and almost exists everywhere

and that doesn't make the woman who provide such services, slave

[feral river]

we support them since 1949 and why not

[thorny steeple]

fr

[olive fractal]

right, because every shady pimp is 100% honest and treats women with respect

[olive fractal]

I'm still debating whether that guy is fr or not

[feral river]

How does that relating to slavery

You are not my slave if I disrespect you are you ?

[olive fractal]

there's a difference between trapping someone in your basement because they refused to go to a client and disrespecting someone

[dire wing]

more than a billion innocent animals were slaughtered today in the name of religion

[thorny steeple]

what religion

[eager geyser]

zinx is drunk

[wild sapphire]

Oh this is still going on

Interesting

[wild sapphire]

I agree with this but my point is that this industry actually fosters a contempt and dehumanization of women

You don’t like dehumanization and contempt of women but only address half the problem

[true lark]

What are we talking about

[wild sapphire]

Sex work

There are multiple perspectives being represented here

[severe moon]

Yo

[severe moon]

Prostitution?

[wild sapphire]

While it would be fine for you to throw your hat in the ring and offer your own perspective without reading up, you should probably read up first before attempting to address any of the specific perspectives

[true lark]

I have less of a problem with it than I probably should, maybe because I'm Dutch and they're mostly treated like humans here

[wild sapphire]

When you say treated like human I imagine you mean there are regulations in place

Designed to safeguard their livelihood and protect their rights, something like this

[true lark]

Regulations, it's legal for one, and they can deny weird requests etc

[wild sapphire]

Yes

I am saying that the very act of viewing a woman as a commodity is in itself inherently dehumanizing regardless of regulation, regardless of consent

I am saying that in that moment, the consumer is not viewing them as a human

The consumer is viewing them as an object

Women are not commodities to be sold for sex even if they consent to treat themselves as much

They are full human beings

But in that moment of transaction, they are seen as less

They are being treated as less

[true lark]

Idk, I'm not the customer of course but I'd see it as a thing closer to a masseuse performing there service than seeing it as an object, though I can definitely see that being different as well

Their, not there

[severe moon]

Lol

[wild sapphire]

The entire industry, this entire movement, disproportionately gives the advantage to men who desire to use woman as sex toys

[true lark]

But then again, people treat others working in customer service like objects as well so I could see it being worse for prostitutes

[severe moon]

Welp, If they "sell themselves" it's tough not to see them as objects, since they're selling themselves as such

[wild sapphire]

To defend it is like someone defending their victimizer due to Stockholm syndrome

[wild sapphire]

You make my point but no they are not objects

Even when someone says they are, they are wrong

[severe moon]

Definitly not, but perhaps they think they are?

Idk, never seen a scort in my life

[true lark]

They don't sell themselves here, they sell their services, so I wouldn't say that everyone would treat and see them as objects, but I could also certainly see the majority doing so

[wild sapphire]

You say something unintentionally deep

[severe moon]

Sure, that's a good thought. All people who work with their bodies are selling a service instead of the body itself

[wild sapphire]

You are correct in a way

They are not selling themselves- this is not what interests their clients

[true lark]

I'm correct but the industry doesn't see it that way, right

[wild sapphire]

No one is interested in buying the woman’s mind and heart and sense of self

[true lark]

Well....

[wild sapphire]

They don’t want who she is, they want what she looks like

They only want to use her body as a receptacle like a garbage bag

And then abandon her as a thing

I said before, entirely dehumanizing

Vile industry

[severe moon]

Welp, if the customers are a bunch of duchebags, ig there's nothing to be done about. it's one of the job's downsides

[wild sapphire]

One of the job’s downsides

[true lark]

Okay, devil's advocate here, isn't that the exact same way you abandon a masseuse after a massage

[severe moon]

That's what i said

[wild sapphire]

You are not wrong in that even outside of this industry, there is an inclination towards treating service workers as part of the thing being purchased

[true lark]

I've argued both sides in my life for debate club and "won" so I'm honestly not even sure what I think myself

[severe moon]

They work on your body, unlike sex-workers, who work with THEIR body

[true lark]

Yes, but that doesn't really change the fact that it's practically the same, it just has different significance

[wild sapphire]

A human being does not become less even if they are working for someone

[severe moon]

Sure

So, it seems we are in accordance

[wild sapphire]

However, this reality does not affect people’s perspectives especially depending on the service being rendered

And consuming someone for sex without caring who they are- i think it is callous in the extreme

[true lark]

Yeah, but that's exactly why I think I think the work itself is vile, but the way people treat those providing it, though I don't see as much of a problem with the abandoning part, part of the service is not having to be involved long term

[wild sapphire]

Physical intimacy without psychological intimacy

[hexed monolith]

[severe moon]

So, the right choice is: not to cooperate with this sort of hustle

[wild sapphire]

It is brutal and and resembles spider sexual activity

[severe moon]

If everyone refuses to blend with scorts, this job will, eventually, vanish

[wild sapphire]

so we all agree the industry is debasing and vile

[true lark]

I dont agree that the job is vile, I think that is vile that humans feel the need to participate in it

[wild sapphire]

To clarify

[true lark]

Which is slightly different but really comes down to the same thing

[wild sapphire]

I am not referring to the women, although an individual’s moral character is up for debate

[manic juniper]

They involved orangutans in it too

[true lark]

Oh yeah I remember that experiment where they gave them an economy and they started selling sex favours

[manic juniper]

No those were capuchin monkeys or something else

[true lark]

I always did intend to read more about that

[wild sapphire]

And doubtless there are women out there who would have no qualms about allowing a man to commit infedelity on their spouse or partner with them, I think this is also callous predatory behavior

[true lark]

Ah

[manic juniper]

This was an orangutan that was human trafficked into sex work

[wild sapphire]

But I am speaking to the industry itself

[manic juniper]

Human trafficked

[wild sapphire]

What the hell

[manic juniper]

More like poached or ape trafficked

[true lark]

I dont personally think that's predatory behaviour, well in the literal sense it is but you get what I mean, that's just a personal opinion though

[true lark]

Oh what

[wild sapphire]

Tell this to any woman whose partner has been seduced by another

[manic juniper]

Not unless the wife is okay with it

[wild sapphire]

It’s like selling easy infidelity

Why go through the hassle of flirtation or secret texts and convincing the other woman that this real love and you will take care of each other

[true lark]

This is very cultural, its way different here, fault is with who committed infidelity, not with who enabled it, it's not their fault

[wild sapphire]

When you can pay her

Just skip the lies and go straight to the physical manifestation of adultery

[manic juniper]

Yes, and sometimes it's not even adultery

[wild sapphire]

To knowingly sleep with someone in a relationship is also callous predatory behavior

[true lark]

I know plenty of other woman like that, but whilst they might be angry at the person, that doesn't come from the "rational" part of their brain, and they still say its not the others fault

[wild sapphire]

I mean provided you aren’t being forced

[true lark]

That is your opinion and I disagree with that

[wild sapphire]

The feelings of the partner is not taken into account, provided we are talking of a relationship in which the partners are not in agreement with sharing each other with others

The human cost of the partner is not taken into account

[severe moon]

Of course, that's kinda obvious

[true lark]

If you do not know the partner at all, it isn't nice but not a big deal, in my opinion that mostly aligns with local culture

[wild sapphire]

Neither the cheater or their new object of sexual indulgence act in consideration of the third person

Vile

[true lark]

It's different if you know the person they're engaged to

[true lark]

In my opinion it's the cheaters fault, there's nothing illegal about seducing another if you have fallen for them

[wild sapphire]

If I find out someone has knowingly cheated with someone else, on either end, I would consider them immensely predatory and unworthy of trust in any romantic context for the rest of their lives

[true lark]

Hmm, cultural differences

[severe moon]

Yes

[wild sapphire]

Practical differences

There are practical implications to this behavior

[severe moon]

Here, if you wanna you wanna lose ur v-card with someone special, that's deemed "gay*

[true lark]

Cultural as well, religion being a part of culture

[wild sapphire]

I am not attractive, I want to stress this because it may give that impression, but I have had situations where women have flirted with me who were already in relationships, and this immediately disqualified them from even the potential of ever being seen by me as partner material. One of them I took aside and explained that I was a Christian and I was obliged by God to care about their boyfriend as a neighbor

If they are willing to do this treachery with them, this means they can do it with callous impunity down the line

Nothing stops them, no sense of empathy or compassion for what this will do to the other woman

All of it is feeding their giant ego

The man crows in the satisfaction of conquest, but so too does the woman

And the third, their shared victim

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/obi-wan-confusion-gif-10824788

[wild sapphire]

You know what it reminds me of

[wild sapphire]

Lol you just condemned the behavior twice

[true lark]

Thr cheater is at fault

[wild sapphire]

What makes it a d move is the same thing that makes it bad for the cheater

[true lark]

Not the one they cheat with

[wild sapphire]

If the one they cheat with knows, yes they are

Both took turns stabbing Caesar

[true lark]

Yeah, but the cheater is a major problem, the person accepting the cheater is not a big problem, though it isn't nice either

[wild sapphire]

Both are complicit

[true lark]

Things can have degrees of being bad

[wild sapphire]

Also massive problem

Callous

[true lark]

Getting together with a cheater isn't a massive one here, whilst cheating is

[wild sapphire]

No consideration for the harm you will do another

[true lark]

Cultural

[wild sapphire]

Your culture encourages moral lunacy

Just insanity

This isn’t a game

[true lark]

Yes love makes you insane, that's the entire reason it isn't seen as a big deal, your love for the other person is stronger than the consideration for their partner, that doesn't mean you don't consider them at all

[wild sapphire]

The man or woman not a prize

There is a human cost

There is no such thing as cheap sex, it is a costly thing

[wild sapphire]

No this isn’t love

[true lark]

Let's agree to disagree on whether going out with a cheater condems you

[wild sapphire]

This is rapacious self indulgent self serving lust

[true lark]

You can irrationally love someone...

[wild sapphire]

There is no love in this at all

Love takes care of others and should not be contingent on sex ever

[true lark]

Love is a chemical process, you can't say there isn't love because its immoral, that's bullshit

[wild sapphire]

It should take care of everybody

[lyric hinge]

how to fall in love ?

[true lark]

You're so naive

[wild sapphire]

Not just the people you want to sleep with, that isn’t love that is a vile disgusting parody of it

[wild sapphire]

You are just evil and callous

[true lark]

You can love because of love just fine, it just won't last

[true lark]

Lust, not love again

[manic juniper]

A relationship is a contract, the person they cheat with isn't part of the same contract

[lyric hinge]

if we fall for love and lust both then what will happen

[true lark]

Exactly, but I don't think Bumper is able to conceptualise cultural differences, considering that they just called me evil over them

[wild sapphire]

Calling the something a cultural difference is a bit of wordplay

I can concede that your culture taught you to be callous

[manic juniper]

Nothing, could be a dynamic of the relationship

People value whatever they wish in their partner

[wild sapphire]

Culture is codeified tradition and perspectives, it is not a sacred writ, or a justification

It can explain the existence of your perspectives

[true lark]

No, this is still not an okay way of saying things, you are bringing forth your opinions as if it were facts

[manic juniper]

No one said culture is a sacred writ

[true lark]

You are of the opinion that it is callous and evil, you can't say it IS because we don't know, we're just two people with opinions

[wild sapphire]

We have had Muslims here, who due to cultural differences defend pedophilia

Appealing to the idea of culture does not save that idea or make it less worse at all

And it does not work for you either

[manic juniper]

Completely different matters

[wild sapphire]

The subject matter is different

But the argument Nia makes now is the same one Pawa made as well

He said it is normal there

The principle remains the same and just as fatuous

[true lark]

And when speaking to them you should still bring it as your opinion rather than a fact, even if most people agree, what you can say though is that most people would think it is evil

[true lark]

No that is not what I said

[wild sapphire]

You are saying that your perspectives, which I find to be callous, are a result of your cultural upbringing or background- or at least, that the views you are sharing reflect cultural differences

[true lark]

I said that it is not seen as a thing to be condemned over

[wild sapphire]

And so what

[true lark]

That is not saying it is normal

[wild sapphire]

Yes and neither is pedophilia in whatever place Pawa hails from

[true lark]

That's a good way to bring it

[wild sapphire]

And calling it culture doesn’t help at all

[manic juniper]

No, she didn't say it's the only perspective in existence and the only correct outcome

[true lark]

Yeah I just said it's what I think

[wild sapphire]

I don’t think Pawa said this either if we are being technical

[true lark]

You're the one saying that your opinion is the only correct one

[manic juniper]

I got mad at the person they cheated with too but I can see why someone wouldn't be mad at them or think it's way less of a deal

[wild sapphire]

All he said was that it was considered normal there

[manic juniper]

But he did, he wasn't open to seeing why the thing was wrong in that instance where the culture allegedly was open to pedophilia

[true lark]

Might be what pawa said but again, that's not what I said

[manic juniper]

Completely different matter

He said it could be wrong in other instances, but not there

[wild sapphire]

Pawa?

Pawa said it was good

It’s why he got muted

You mean Nia?

[manic juniper]

What, you said this wasn't his stance but now you're saying it was? So what did he say?

Was it good in every instance or not?

[wild sapphire]

I may have missed a word or something here

I do that especially when I am typing too fast

[manic juniper]

Did he consider it being wrong in that particular instance?

[wild sapphire]

Let me be clear- Pawa wants to defend it by any means

[manic juniper]

Because Nia did

[wild sapphire]

Pawa defended it both as a cultural norm as well as just being good outside of cultural norms

[severe moon]

Who's Pawa

[true lark]

Idk, not me

[severe moon]

Lol

[wild sapphire]

Thank the Lord

[manic juniper]

Then he had no other perspectives than his own

[wild sapphire]

And what Nia is doing?

[severe moon]

I'm out of the loop. I can't keep up really, i'm kinda busy here

My boss called me to work in the saturday

And there isn't even work to do

[wild sapphire]

I’m sorry to hear that

[severe moon]

Thx

[manic juniper]

She said it's just part of her culture but it's not perceived in the same way everywhere, and she understands why people think it's wrong

She's not dancing around it

[wild sapphire]

She is not espousing her culture’s perspectives you mean

[manic juniper]

Or we could play a funny game and see who's the first religious person to admit their greatest prophet wasn't perfect or without faults

[wild sapphire]

I think mine is without faults

[true lark]

I'm saying I agree with my culture, which isn't that it's normal but that it's not something to be condemned either, whilst also respecting that your culture disagrees, not taking either as a default for the whole world

[wild sapphire]

And to be honest I wouldn’t mind debating it with you

[severe moon]

What is ur culture ?

[wild sapphire]

Of all people I wouldn’t mind debating it with you

[true lark]

Dutch, non religious

[severe moon]

Depends. I heard Zeeland is quite religious

[manic juniper]

Debates only make sense if they are open to changing their minds

[wild sapphire]

Not out of a desire to scrap with you which I don’t have, but because I admire your intellectual capacity and believe such a discussion could be done in good faith and with reason

[manic juniper]

Why do you think killing a tree was justified

[wild sapphire]

I don’t agree, I see merit in information exchange

[wild sapphire]

For example, this tree thing

[manic juniper]

That's not a debate

[true lark]

No I mean that my culture is the non religious bit, as religion is a part of culture

[severe moon]

Hmm i see

[wild sapphire]

Then we don’t need to call it one

[severe moon]

What province are u from?

Ik a ton of people from Gronigen

Idk how to spell it

[true lark]

Groningen

[wild sapphire]

I have never heard anyone take moral umbrage with the killing of a tree

[severe moon]

Yeah, almost

[wild sapphire]

As an example

[manic juniper]

Seems completely unnecessary to me

The killing of the tree itself isn't a problem, it's how unnecessary it was

[wild sapphire]

I think in order to address it it would require a little reverse engineering

To understand the underpinnings of our respective moral frameworks

And then we could understand our respective perspectives on the tree

[manic juniper]

I just want to know why it was necessary

It's simple to answer this, we don't need any philosophical bullshit

[severe moon]

Underpinning? Wow, i loved that work. Will put it in my word stock

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun you have a weird approach to analyzing and criticizing scripture

[severe moon]

This dude makes no effort to make sense

[wild sapphire]

You examine the supernatural elements from a context that removed any greater spiritual or supernatural significance

[manic juniper]

No answers I guess

[wild sapphire]

Did Jesus kill the tree at a word? If you say yes, then you have entered into a world in which the rules and purposes of things are different from the one in which you believe you are in

What I mean is

[manic juniper]

I don't care if it was real or not, it's shown as fact

[wild sapphire]

You are taking this act as supernatural, but wish to divorce it of the internal logic of the world that action by necessity it would take place in

You said no philosophical bull manure right?

In otherwords, pretend He did this, but absent the rationale of a world in which He would be able to do this

Take that miracle and place it in your world

[manic juniper]

If pawa knew he could've used the same excuse to debate why you care so much about that marriage if it's historically unsupported

[wild sapphire]

Not His

[manic juniper]

If it's not true, then why is it bad?

[wild sapphire]

Right

[manic juniper]

The tree never died, it's not bad. We can't talk about it then

Got it

[wild sapphire]

But if you choose to treat it as true, even hypothetically, then you should contextualize it in the world in which it is framed as existing in

[verbal abyss]

You two debate with each other every day

[wild sapphire]

Do you kind of grasp what I am saying here?

[wild sapphire]

No no

[manic juniper]

It's not even a debate, man's dodging questions better than Keanu in Matrix

[wild sapphire]

The thing I am trying to explain is not exactly easy

Isfrun there is no need to treat me with so much contempt or as a troll

[manic juniper]

Keanu Chungus

Lmfao gottem

[wild sapphire]

Let me see if I can use an illustration to make my point

[manic juniper]

Fine, the fig tree was never zapped, I have no rights to complain

[sharp creek]

take the seat and have some sunflower seeds

[manic juniper]

Since it's not historical he is indeed without faults

[verbal abyss]

Whats the topic

[manic juniper]

Do you think it's necessary to kill a tree just to make a metaphor?

[wild sapphire]

No you can

[manic juniper]

Doesn't this violate the NAP?

[wild sapphire]

You are not understanding my point

[verbal abyss]

What

[wild sapphire]

My point is, even if you choose to examine it as a story, every story takes place in a universe with internal rules of logic

[manic juniper]

Not because the tree was an hindrance or infested by termites, or it was about to fall, but because you wanted to explain something to your cousin

[wild sapphire]

Even the most whimsical stories like harry potter and star wars with magic and force abilities

There is an internal sense of logic, rules of that universe that help you understand the magic

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursing_of_the_fig_tree

[wild sapphire]

But it seems you aren’t really interested in hashing it out with me

Okay, sorry, you win

[manic juniper]

Because you said a whole lot of words without answering it

What's the point of even bothering

[wild sapphire]

I said a whole lot of words because you aren’t understanding any of them

[manic juniper]

I understood that you're not interested in answering

[verbal abyss]

Once again its religious topic

[wild sapphire]

I am interested

I hazarded that it would be rational and logical with you

I don’t see you as an enemy

Remember I told you about roots and fruit?

I like to understand the roots so I can understand the fruit

I think it is the most logical thing to do

You want to look at the fruit and evidently have no desire to understand what produced that fruit

[manic juniper]

This is what I understood: kellä keččinä kupajau, še kylyn löytäy, he/she whose skin itches finds a sauna

[wild sapphire]

Okay isfrun

I am sorry i thought we could debate or share info or whatever

Clearly you hate christianity or something, idk

[olive fractal]

me honest reaction:

https://youtu.be/tuW8TaAlBfg?si=yCpLHvTngAScSOhB&t=37

[wild sapphire]

I dont say this because you disagree

You just come across as really reactionary and emotional

Which is valid depending on what you have been exposed to in practical terms

[manic juniper]

It's easy to be straightforward unless it comes to answering the question

Even if it's an ad hominem

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, you are doing something deceitful

[manic juniper]

I'm not, look, I'm focusing on the subject meanwhile you're focusing on me

But I'm the reactionary one

[wild sapphire]

You aren’t focusing on the subject

[manic juniper]

Still no answers

https://tenor.com/view/raw-gif-798993911785685941

[wild sapphire]

I want to understand our perspectives so we can explain or counter each other’s points more clearly

[verbal abyss]

I feel communistic today, my worst nightmare

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-yoda-how-embarassing-thats-so-embarrassing-embarassing-gif-17362984

[wild sapphire]

And you want to force an over simplification so you fan get an answer you want, even if it isn’t true

You are being lazy and dishonest

That’s all

Big chungus, as you are wont to say

[manic juniper]

No, I want to get an answer period, I don't care about it conforming to my wishes

Stop projecting

[wild sapphire]

Then why do you have issue with me trying to answer you, do you want a thorough accurate understanding of both our sides and thus the most accurate answwr

[manic juniper]

You didn't answer

[wild sapphire]

Or do you want to win a debate so you can post the fat monkey

[verbal abyss]

🔥🔥

[wild sapphire]

The way you are approaching this is not correct

Your premise is flawed

[manic juniper]

Imagine if I asked what hour is it and Swan replied "Humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa"

[wild sapphire]

I am trying to make sure we are coming to the tree from a proper foundation first

[manic juniper]

Peak honesty

[wild sapphire]

This is a question of philosophy and morality

[verbal abyss]

Do it

[manic juniper]

No, I asked if it was really necessary

I didn't make it a philosophical and moral question

[wild sapphire]

Okay I see

You want me to give you a surface level answer devoid of context or explanation

[manic juniper]

No you don't, I said to stick to the subject but it didn't happen

[wild sapphire]

That is what you are asking

[manic juniper]

This is annoying

[wild sapphire]

Then sure I would say yes

[wild sapphire]

The utopic kind or the kind that poisons underwear

[verbal abyss]

Any kind is shitty I don't care

[sharp creek]

do russians and finlands have a religion

[wild sapphire]

I think the utopic ideal of communism is predicated on making sure everyone has everything they need

[manic juniper]

Unfortunately

[verbal abyss]

There are almost no atheistic country

[sharp creek]

i see..

[verbal abyss]

But Russia doesn't have official religion, Russians are orthodox, other native nations are mostly muslims

[wild sapphire]

To be clear this is the straightforward answer you want Isfrun, @manic juniper

[manic juniper]

Finland doesn't either

[verbal abyss]

So predominantly orthodox

[manic juniper]

No

[wild sapphire]

You asked was it necessary

I said yes

[manic juniper]

I don't care

[wild sapphire]

You didn’t ask for more

[verbal abyss]

I want communist to answer me how innovations are gonna occur in communistic county

[wild sapphire]

Post big chungus

[wild sapphire]

The reality is often divorced from the ideal

[verbal abyss]

No free market = piece of shit ideology

[manic juniper]

Due to laziness

[wild sapphire]

I think there are very romantic and idealistic communists

[manic juniper]

Humans always found Innovations due to laziness

[verbal abyss]

Wdym

[thorny steeple]

the USSR went to the horse plough to the first human sattelite in like 30 years, what's your point

[manic juniper]

Farming was an innovation during a time without rulers

[wild sapphire]

We get tired of doing things the hard way

[manic juniper]

Rulers popped out after farming was a thing

Farming is innovation due to laziness

[verbal abyss]

Do you understand that USSR was not communistic country?

And there was never a pure comminism

[wild sapphire]

That’s what the idealists say

[manic juniper]

No

That's what the USSR itself said

[wild sapphire]

It is an idealist perspective

[thorny steeple]

no serious communist talk about a pure communism

[manic juniper]

Then what's the point of their existence

[verbal abyss]

Scientists must be rich as hell

[thorny steeple]

so if you are refering to the high-communism, it's not possible to know how could it have innovation

[wild sapphire]

Can you clarify?

[manic juniper]

Many communists believe that pure communism can be achieved

[thorny steeple]

materialist communists don't work with speculations

[manic juniper]

It's untrue that they don't. They just think it's not possible now

[verbal abyss]

Every government being has a global goal of existence

[manic juniper]

Which is exactly how the USSR and other socialist countries operate, they have a communist party in charge but they are socialist

[verbal abyss]

And socialistic countries are tend to build communism but then realize that its a shit and arrange dictatorship

[wild sapphire]

Lol

Their dictatorships also tend to be pretty awful

[thorny steeple]

leninist-based socialism is crappy indeed

[wild sapphire]

Socialism meant to be the preliminary stage to fully realized communism

I think the problem is that the Communist ideal is not realistically possible, so in all practical ways, socialism is all that communist ideology can take you to

It’s like a map that leads you to shangri la, but the road leads into a swamp

[verbal abyss]

Socialism is a slavery it violates human right

[wild sapphire]

And caravan after caravan drives into the swamp

Socialism is the end of the line

[manic juniper]

It's not like the other alternatives are that possible either

[wild sapphire]

There is no shangri la

[manic juniper]

Social democracy is supposed to be ethical capitalism

[prisma cipher]

Stupid.