🧠｜serious-chat

[haughty storm]

Why

[wild sapphire]

Do you see how the idea of Nazis are weaponized now by people who actually wish to behave by Nazis

[haughty storm]

True, my president is called a nazi

[wild sapphire]

Nazis are almost the universal code word for “monster” or “bad guy”

[rocky coyote]

tbh there are rightful critiques to confront the state and non state parties involved in the conflict, but the russo-ukrainian war is the first conscious analysis of an unveiling war to most people and they adopted a campist approach when settling for a side to support.

[haughty storm]

He is Adolf Hitler Uunona

[wild sapphire]

Painting your enemy as a Nazi is one of the easiest ways to morally justify treating your enemy as a dog to be put down

I would argue that what Putin is doing is Nazi in spirit

More important than being Nazi in name

[true lark]

Putin is just doing putin stuff

[wild sapphire]

The Nazis are always trying to come back, but they don’t always go by Nazis

[haughty storm]

True, say that both sides are bad is ambiguous, anyway we can say one is stronger (which is Russian and I don't know why didn't win yet)

[haughty storm]

Is crazy to be called a nazi by a State that invaded Georgia, Chechenya and (idk but one more is surely)

[rocky coyote]

russia's, or rather putin's conquest, was tsarist expansionism. ukraine, amidst the wake of the war, does high strung vilification of their socialist heroes while green lighting historically nazi-backed actors to cope with their uncoordinated aggression and poor stand. NATO's promises to restore democracy in ukraine's attacked regions are shady at best

hell, you can't even discount Russia from the Fascist Problem™ when there are literal Neo Nazis roaming in small but uninterrupted parades

[shy summit]

I’d take nato’s hand over a guy who pushes comatose patients out of windows any day tbh

[rocky coyote]

i'm a partisan through and through

[haughty storm]

Sorry to deviate, but you have a very good English, where are you from?

[rocky coyote]

indonesia, born and raised.

[haughty storm]

WAAAA

Congrats

[rocky coyote]

wdym

[haughty storm]

Gud english

[rocky coyote]

they're like, the least awful group to depend on in this situation

[rocky coyote]

oooh. thanks

[haughty storm]

What, Ukraine validating the nazi figures? I didn't know, I mean in the azov regiment is known to be nazi

[wild sapphire]

I’ll settle for least awful

Unless you have “best”

[haughty storm]

But if the government is doing that it can't be not used for saying that they are not nazi

[rocky coyote]

they kicked down statues of USSR-affiliated ukranian heroes who were very integral in national construction efforts and decorated nazi insurgents in their place. they were scouring for anti-soviet representations due to the stress of the war

[rocky coyote]

it's definitely a glaring problem among the people who run the state, though

[rocky coyote]

the international protelariat

[haughty storm]

I mean is understandable but it was better if they let the people let do it instead of the state
They are Communist or Nazi, there is not more Nestor Majno

Sad

[neon sierra]

wheres my favourite minecraft girl

[drifting bane]

Must be sleeping

[neon sierra]

shes still here tho and active?

[drifting bane]

Tag her you'll know

[neon sierra]

nope, she probably doesnt even remember me lol

[drifting bane]

That's sad

[neon sierra]

we didnt like each other anyway

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war @feral river

Declare all the war

Even the minor skirmishes and battles

[manic juniper]

Wagner group's founder is a Nazi, complete with tattoos

They also didn't just play the part but did war crimes in Africa if that wasn't enough

And Syria

[manic juniper]

It's the least antisemitic country in Europe, and their president is a Jew... That goes against the whole point of being a Nazi

[manic juniper]

Ilona?

[neon sierra]

nope, her name is minecraft china mainland something

[manic juniper]

He is here everyday

Just wait, it's somewhat early here

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war

It’s like catnip

[merry ore]

[thick pulsar]

not the boykisser...

[merry ore]

lol

[thick pulsar]

I always see them around, probably just wait till its daytime there

[wild sapphire]

I’ve been waiting all day

Taking their sweet dang time

[thick pulsar]

@feral river you have a fan waiting eagerly for your attention here or something lol

[wild sapphire]

They are probably busy laying waste to their enemies and salting the land on roblox

[clever ocean]

serius chat is the least serius chat
change my mind

[wild sapphire]

It’s seriously unserious

[clever ocean]

see?

[wild sapphire]

Still counts

[clever ocean]

i'm very serius when talking in this channel

[wild sapphire]

What would you like to talk about

[clever ocean]

want to see my level of serious...ness?

[merry ore]

hmmm

[wild sapphire]

What serious matter weighs on your mind so heavily that you would drag it kicking and screaming to this channel

[clever ocean]

i think that men should get pregnant too, women think that they are better just cuz they can get pregnant 8 months then feel how a baby just kicks their belly

[clever ocean]

it's unfair, men should feel that 2, women just get happier but men just get sadder cuz when talking with the wife she'll say "nah i've got pregnant fr you're a skibidi toilet", no one likes brainrot

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war

[merry ore]

This chat is funni sometimes

[wild sapphire]

I hope this helps

[clever ocean]

i'm sorry i'll need to go soon, let's talk a bit

[wild sapphire]

Bon voyage

[merry ore]

what do u wanna talk abt

[clever ocean]

?topic

[cursive bobcat]

Topic

What’s the dumbest thing someone has argued with you about?

The English Hub - Source: yagpdb topic command + other sources

[clever ocean]

my friends tought that aliens were real and i proven to them that it wasn't

there's isn't enough phosphorus to make life, barely we have born

[merry ore]

They could be. To say they are, without evidence, is stupid, but to say the could be is pretty reasonable, in my opinion

[clever ocean]

even if a planet has phosphorus wich is the chance that those planet with phosphorus will be habitable?

even suposing that space is infinite it'll expand and will expand faster while you get even further so it is a no sense not to see any kind of life ouside earth then expecting those hypotetical lifes will come to us or viceversa

and top of that wich is the chance that those "aliens" will develop enough to make complex life like some-kind of cow

even worse if we'll talk about smart ones

@merry ore it is enough for you?, now you see that life outside earth couldn't be pretty reasonable

i think he/she's offline

[frosty socket]

hello i need help

@merry ore

can you help me

[merry ore]

I never said they had to be smart or highly developed, though. I only said they could exist on another planet somewhere in this universe. An alient, to me, is just a living organism from space, not something highly developed, smart, or whatever else movies show :p

[clever ocean]

you can only expect some kind of bacteria there 🥺

[merry ore]

That's still life though ;p

[merry ore]

What's up?

[clever ocean]

even with that the amount of phosphorus is pretty low, you should search it

[wild sapphire]

HMMMMM

I have some thoughts

[merry ore]

pray, do tell

[frosty socket]

a person from this server gave me friend req
at first we were doing good i thought friends

next thing he wanted my account and pc
is that a scammer?

[wild sapphire]

Yes

[clever ocean]

what did your toughts made to you 😠

[wild sapphire]

Im sorry bud

[merry ore]

Yes. Block them

[clever ocean]

report, block then close

[frosty socket]

i told lies to him and he blocked me first

though

[wild sapphire]

What the

Okaay well

[clever ocean]

ask him for forgive, then block and report

[merry ore]

Many people on discord just want to scam you lol. It's very obvious, normally

Just move on

[frosty socket]

can i mention that fella?

[clever ocean]

btw: never download anything from discord

[merry ore]

We can't do much lol

[frosty socket]

well i blocked him and reported him earlier

then i came to ask for your help

[clever ocean]

maybe their account got stolen

[frosty socket]

holy crap
i am worried

if only i could give u the ss

[clever ocean]

wdym with ss?

[frosty socket]

screenshot

that person blocked me first

[clever ocean]

their account got stolen

do not feel bad about breaking that relationship

if you're lucky maybe your friend can re-send the friend req

[frosty socket]

bro stop messing with me

that was a scammer

[clever ocean]

🤷

[clever ocean]

i still bealieve that there's no aliens, the chances of that is the same that a bacteria evoles into a super giant dinosaur with super laser eyes and super strenght (absolute no sense)

[wooden pendant]

alien mitochondria when

[clever ocean]

does it exists?

[wooden pendant]

how would i know

[clever ocean]

even if it exist it shouldn't be considered as life at all

[wooden pendant]

would have to travel light speed or worm whole

[wooden pendant]

why not?

[clever ocean]

add "close to" before "light speed"

[wooden pendant]

nah

i want light speed

jumps into whole another universe

[clever ocean]

it'll only produce energy with complex molecules it wouldn't able to even reproduce

[wooden pendant]

what if parallel universe exists? could that be consider aliens right?

[clever ocean]

that's impossible 🥺

[clever ocean]

i think that it depends on wich planet will be considered some kind of paralel-earth

[wooden pendant]

sed 😔 aight i want alien tardigrades

[clever ocean]

i want alien tragedies 😭

[wooden pendant]

still parallel humans would be not us

then those can be considered alieans

with electrons circling in the wrong way

too much science fiction

[clever ocean]

i do not think pararel universes would work like that 😭 , at least not by steven hawking teory (that i barely understand)

[wooden pendant]

😔

[solid ocean]

What I know to be alien is something that comes from a different planet, so would a parallel earth still be earth? Sounds like a Ship of Theseus situation

[clever ocean]

as far i know diferent unniverse -> diferent (physics) rules
so it'll be even harder to make life

[solid ocean]

Yes true, but the premise of parallel universe is that you have at least one change, like in a parallel universe I might be a girl, or have brown eyes. But in this universe I am a boy and blue eyes.

I wouldn’t say different universes have different physics rules; imagine free energy‼️

Maybe the correct term here would be alternate universe, instead of coexisting with our current universe, it’s a complete different universe @clever ocean

[prime plover]

Hi! I’m a software engineer, and I’m looking for a native speaker who can help me improve my communication skills while working together on exciting projects.

[rocky coyote]

whats a destiny debate

?topic

[cursive bobcat]

Topic

Which emerging technology are you most excited about?

The English Hub - Source: yagpdb topic command + other sources

[rocky coyote]

im a caveman i hit rocks with my big wood bat

[wooden pendant]

my bat is bigger

i win

[rocky coyote]

bat

?topic

[cursive bobcat]

Topic

What’s the worst movie trope?

The English Hub - Source: yagpdb topic command + other sources

[rocky coyote]

dry quips

[rocky coyote]

wait no its when a movie's entire premise is the rejection of famous tropes by only doing the opposite with no coherent plot. it can get underhanded and smug, you'll have to be very impressionable to find it worth praising

[shy summit]

They give us a single hot mom but then kill her off.

[rocky coyote]

another one is characters from minority backgrounds who chose to conform and the movie paints it as a moral conclusion to their arc, or when fighting sides in a nuanced social issue casts their rooted hatreds aside in a fingersnap to fight the Big Bad threatening their One Society.

its lazy

[rocky coyote]

what movie even does this

[shy summit]

Spiderman?

Aunt May?

Bruh

[rocky coyote]

are you talking about the tom holland spiderman movies because ive never watched any of them

i dont watch capeflicks in general

[shy summit]

Ye

[rocky coyote]

suddenly thought of this since its pride month; caricatures in movies promoted as queer with outright queer main charas. not only does it immediately show they're going to have the most rehashed and sanitized dynamics, the production as a whole is detached from authentic queer experiences

[sharp creek]

[wild sapphire]

Hello sir

How you doing my fella from another bella

Brother from another mother

[feral river]

not true in the eastern world

[fresh flower]

Holy moly

[wild sapphire]

Fair

Also hello minecraft

[feral river]

in here we have very significant amount of people supporting nazism

[feral river]

hello dude

[wild sapphire]

Stupidity is a universal trait

[feral river]

they are not stupid, they just have their own mind on seeing so much things

also in here the universal value we see is an ideology coming from the west

which we say the western universal values

most people support Russia in Ukraine war

[fresh flower]

Brainwashed people do

Lots of them around

[wild sapphire]

Stupidity is when your mind generates or accepts a stupid idea

We all do it

Weakness of the flesh

Declare the war

Supporting nazis is big stupid

Unless the asian version is less about killing Jews and handicapped and homosexuals and everyone and more about military fashion or something

[feral river]

well no ? stupidity is when your mind is incapable to think very much stuff but blindnessly following others

your definition was based on a very subjective view

[wild sapphire]

Blindly following nazis is stupidity, yes

We are on the same page

[feral river]

stupidity is objective, at least it can be

[wild sapphire]

Call off the war

[feral river]

Blindly following communist is also stupidity

[wild sapphire]

Yes

[feral river]

Blindly following democrats is also stupidity

so do as well on republicans

[wild sapphire]

Blindly following anyone tends to be a dangerous and foolhardy proposition

[feral river]

total subjective

[wild sapphire]

[sharp creek]

sorry what is bella

[wild sapphire]

This was a good debate, it was a pleasure having you agree with me

[sharp creek]

hahahahaha where do you get the picture

[feral river]

just

declare the war on radicals

[wild sapphire]

“Fella from another bella” is a variation of “brother from another mother”

Bella here means beauty, and fella means man

Bella means beauty in a few languages

[sharp creek]

i see

[wild sapphire]

Ai

… 😔

[hollow cave]

Yep also in Italian and Spanish

[wild sapphire]

Do you still play minecraft

User named after Minecraft, do you play Minecraft

Don’t tell me you stopped

Don’t tell me you declared the war on the mining of crafts

[slender coral]

What do y'all think about Islam?

[wild sapphire]

You already know

You just want to hear it

[slender coral]

It depends. Some people defend it.

[wild sapphire]

Those individuals tend to be outliers to the regular group in this channel I think

At least to my cursory perspective

[slender coral]

I wonder often, what really makes it different than other faiths? Why Muslims tend to be more fanatical than other theists?

[wild sapphire]

Is it Muslims or people that live in war torn countries and violently harsh living conditions

[slender coral]

Even in the west

[wild sapphire]

Their rhetoric can be quite aggressive yes

[slender coral]

Some new white converts take their attitude.

[wild sapphire]

But in the west, an adjusted and acclimated Muslim is not likely to be so interested in embarking on jihad when they have a football game to watch with friends

The new white converts are probably disillusioned with western society

Happens all the time

They don’t always flee to Islam

Maybe they become ardent communists

[slender coral]

I mean fanaticism in a more broader sense, not only terrorism. The type that would make you convinced that apostates should be executed and shit like that.

[wild sapphire]

That happens when everyone around you also believe apostates should be executed

Even if you didn’t feel that way, only the bravest will admit it

[wild sapphire]

I am a Christian

@thorny steeple shoot

[thorny steeple]

and yet a shocking percentage of western muslims support violent and illiberal practices in regards to apostasy, or blasphemy if you poll them

[wild sapphire]

For the reason I just outlined

It’s called peer pressure

They all know their book says it, and they all know that their community affirms it

What are they supposed to say

But what will they actually do when they meet an apostate

Will they overturn their lives for the sake of following Quran

God forbid

I’m not defending Islam

I know, because the hardcore ones also exist

[wild sapphire]

I think

The answer to this question is

The degree to which the average Muslim adheres to the teachings of their religion

Or the manner in which they choose to express them

Depends on their cultural acclimation and adaptation in a given society

And their living circumstances

[slender coral]

To me, it seems like context doesn't matter much.

[wild sapphire]

It doesn’t matter when looking at their book

It matters when talking about them as a whole

I think many Muslims understand their religion to be a peaceful one

And they probably live peaceful lives

The principles I outlined above are true of any religion however

Or any movement

Religious zeal tends to dull when you find your place in a secular society

Mmm

[sharp creek]

Mmm

[wild sapphire]

I think Islam is a religion of anger and hate

I think the best weapon therefore is love

[sharp creek]

!!! protect him protect him

he is going to be attack

[wild sapphire]

What lol

[sharp creek]

islam people wont admit it

[wild sapphire]

So what

[sharp creek]

i was kidding sorry sir

[wild sapphire]

Zinx

[sharp creek]

if i were a islam people, i will verbal attack you

[wild sapphire]

You are one of the nicest people i know so far

You dont need to apologize for anything

I will assume the best of you

[sharp creek]

what.....you dont know me at all

[wild sapphire]

Not personally, but i think generally people say more about themselves than they ever mean to say

Everything, even the most casual actions, have roots

Nothing happens in a vaccuum

So far, you strike me as a civil, polite person

I don’t assume you would ever offend me on purpose

Not unless I pushed you

[sharp creek]

The Islam original intention was good, and in the beginning, it brought great benefits to people
However, over time, those in power gradually caused some parts to become extreme and violent

i read slowly

thank you !!

[hollow cave]

Lol do u even know wt the word Islam means ? It's peace .

[wild sapphire]

I dont care what people say they are

I care about what they actually are

Names mean nothing, substance is everything

[sharp creek]

here we go , i bring the chair and sunflower seeds

[wild sapphire]

Basmala is polite

[hollow cave]

And wt they actually are
Did they made WW1 or 2 did they made ethnic cleansing for counties
Did they occupied countries ?

[wild sapphire]

Nope to world war 1 and world war 2

Is this relevant

Oh but occupy countries yes

Islam has a very militaristic history

They do not shy away from violence as a means to an end

In many circumstances it is divinely mandated

Ethnic cleansing, mmmmm

An argument can be made

[hollow cave]

Nope it wasn't occupied
It's conquest
And the difference is very high
They didn't kill innocents neither wanna destroy the country before they enter any country they ask the rules to be Muslims and if they refused they battle them army to army still if the whole people refused to be Muslims they won't force any one tho
How you wanna them make people know about Islam by internet ?

[wild sapphire]

Oh i see

You are hoping to win this argument through semantic technicality

If muslims invaded a country and took it over by armed conquest

It follows that the inhabitants were innocent except that they possessed the land the Muslims wanted

There is no difference

They went in, killed, and conquered

[hollow cave]

Nope It happened only once by ottomans and no one agrees on that shit no Muslim would say it's true and it's a barbarian thing out of Islam

[wild sapphire]

“Did they do ethnic cleansing?”

“Well-“

“Fine yes, but only once!”

[thorny steeple]

I should note, that peace is a euphemism for the word submission in Islam.

or surrender

[hollow cave]

Wt ? They pay for that as anyone the only change happens to the policy
Bytheway all those Islamic countries u see now came from conquest don't u still see other religions? Of there's no difference between it and occupation will they still be Muslims after weakness of the Muslims empires ? Idk when this claim comes from the occupation is the same as conquest

[wild sapphire]

Why don’t you tell me how occupation differs from conquest

And how this difference somehow erases the overwhelming campaigns of non-peaceful violence Islam took against its enemies

Remember that the position you are arguing for is that Islam is a religion of peace

You win when you can prove this stance

[hollow cave]

It's not Islamic should I tell u all the wars Christians did u r responsible for it js because they were Christians?! Or Christianity is the problem ?

[wild sapphire]

But so far you are not denying its mountain of violence

You are just attempting to justify it using word games

[hollow cave]

I don't wanna win anything. I'm just clarifying what's false

[wild sapphire]

You are not even arguing that these violent conquests were against the core tenants of Islam

[wild sapphire]

Yes but what you are clarifying is that your assertion that Islam is a religion of peace is false

Your argument so far is as follows:

[thorny steeple]

Zinxo

[wild sapphire]

1. islam is a religion of peace
2. Islam conquered many countries through armed invasion
3. ???
4. Peace

[sharp creek]

hello, im still watching

[wild sapphire]

In what respect are Islam’s many military campaigns peaceful

Peaceful warfare???

[thorny steeple]

fr lmao

[thorny steeple]

They didn't make world wars because Islamic countries were too weak and poor to do that, so this argument doesn't make much sense.

[wild sapphire]

Stay in context

[hollow cave]

Wtf it's named Islam from day 1 before even the prophet Mumhamed there were Islam

[wild sapphire]

And also i am not interested in overwhelming someone

If two people argue with one it isnt fair or courteous

It cannot be expected they would answer both of us

[wild sapphire]

@thorny steeple and what you did by jumping in is allow basmala to pick the weaker of the two arguments to flee to

You allowed basmala to get off the track i set him on to go back to the beginning which is his appeal to Islam’s etymology

Which means zero

If you called a religion the Happy Big Fun Party Time Club

And this religion went around conquering tons of people and killing scads more

The name clearly means nothing

[thorny steeple]

I didn't say it wasn't named Islam.

[hollow cave]

Do u understand it was the only way to make Islam be known do u get that ? They first send for the ruler to make him now and inform his people they all disagree and call for war so ? They would if it's the only way to make some enter Islam otherwise they didn't force anyone to do so

[wild sapphire]

No he wanted to go there and you let him out

[wild sapphire]

Christianity got it to be known through spreading the message through charity and reasoning- it wasnt until it became a state religion that the teachings of Jesus became grossly warped and violent thanks to the crusades

And the catholics and all that- but where i can say that those events contradicted the teachings of my Founder

You cannot do that- because Muhammad did believe in armed warfare

[hollow cave]

Wt ? And why they became Muslim from the first place where do u guys get the claim that anyone forced them to enter Islam ? And were they independent lol they were under Persian or Romanian Empire .

[wild sapphire]

Ofc people are going to convert when the option is convert or die

[wild sapphire]

Telling people to convert or be fired upon is literally forcing them

This is ridiculous, this is the literal definition of coercion

Dont act like this was a cordial debate

[thorny steeple]

the teachings of Jesus almost certainly had been grossly warped by the bible itself.

[wild sapphire]

Yes yes

Okay well when you provide me with His authentic teachings we will talk more

Thank you pro for wildly flailing around

Basmala you havent proven that Islam lived up to its name at all

I think you had better concede and move on

You have been cordial and polite

[hollow cave]

Fuck who did that ?
If there was a war between two armes and when they already entered they told people if they wanna enter Islam or still in their Religion whatever it was where's the force here
The force when the rulers refused to tell them abt Islam when they ask him from the beginning with no war
They always kindly asking the ruler before to inform his people abt Islam they refused

[wild sapphire]

Islam started its own wars

They always ask kindly lol

Before kindly returning with swords if they didnt listen

[hollow cave]

That's the truth believe it or not

[wild sapphire]

Basmala you are not being sensible

[wild sapphire]

Basmala

Let me show you how you sound okay

Imagine a married couple

Jack and Bethany

Jack says that he loves his wife and asks her one day to do something she will be very uncomfortable with

[thorny steeple]

Well, some of Jesus' authentic teachings are there in the bible, but many were distorted or invented by later authors. This is a widely accepted view among scholars.

[wild sapphire]

Jack asks her very kindly and calls her loving names

And then when Bethany refuses, Jacks whips out his baseball bat and beats her to death

What a kind, peaceful man, Jack is

He did ask kindly, didnt he

Bethany shouldnt have said no, oh well

[wild sapphire]

Did you know smoking is actually good for the lungs, this is according to researchers sponsored by big tobacco

Please “some scholars” as if somehow this means anything

Plenty of scholars come to conflicting conclusions all the time

“Some scholars” indeed

[wild sapphire]

Did you know some Islamic scholars believe Jesus was a Muslim, it’s true

[hollow cave]

U know why ?!
Since the emporer himself converted ? That's what Muslims want from the beginning but he refused not js that he refused to inform his people so

[wild sapphire]

The emperor converted due to a dream and then he proceeded to be one of the worst enemies to Christ I have ever seen

[hollow cave]

So

[wild sapphire]

You keep justifying the violence

But by justifying it you are acknowledging it

And violence is the opposite of peace

Every single one of your arguments is bolstering my point

You keep kicking balls into your own goal

[thorny steeple]

Well, not just 'some scholars', but a strong scholarly majority among historical and critical scholars of the New Testament

[wild sapphire]

You are playing for my team

[wild sapphire]

Oooooh

Not just some, but a LOT of some

So what are we talking here, you have a number

[wild sapphire]

Basmala God bless you

You havent gotten anywhere, let me let you off the hook

Here is the argument you should make, it would be easier for you to defend

“Islam is not a peaceful religion because peace is not possible until the world submits to the will of Allah”

“When all the world is Muslim, then we shall have peace”

“Until then, violence is justified”

Say this

I am helping you basmala

You should copy my homework

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[wild sapphire]

[hollow cave]

The prophet freed all people in Mekkah after they killed his uncle , companies when he entered didn't kill them which is gonna be fare but he forgive them and as always didn't force anyone to be Muslim
He did with jews. They broke it after .
And for always he didn't force anyone to enter Islam neither his companions some Christians did bytheway even tho they were under Islamic control they will still be in whatever religion they want with no injustice u can read any historical book on this period no one would blame Muslims on conquest neither their treatments with other religions even the extrem hated historian

[wild sapphire]

Thats good

Still not peace

Anyway

Im glad we cleared that up

[thorny steeple]

Well, I don't have a specific number, but around 70-80% of university bible scholars would agree that the bible has later theological additions that don't accurately reflect what historical Jesus have said. Even a majority of those who are Christians themselves don't discount it.

[wild sapphire]

Aha

Well that is a big number wow

Which source did you get this from

And a majority of christians holy moly

I wonder who polled them

[hollow cave]

Lol u should when u grap smth know the context first

[wild sapphire]

You are still wrong

[hollow cave]

Maybe for u

[wild sapphire]

You have done nothing but share with us the many reasons for Islam’s violence

That’s all you did the entire time

How do you even define peace?

Does peace mean violence with justification?

I want you to tell me what peace is

This would help us understand what the other person is saying

[hollow cave]

It's avoiding injustice and leaving with balance

Living *

[flint anchor]

Sir, I think you're talking about Christianity.

1 Samuel 15:3 NIV
Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.

[wild sapphire]

So peace means avoiding injustice and living with balance

[eager geyser]

zinx is drunk

[wild sapphire]

Yes and i think you are talking about judaism

[lofty hound]

this debate is not over yet, smh

[wild sapphire]

It is good to know what you are talking about before cherrypicking

Always a good debate strat i find

[wild sapphire]

Where did you get this definition from?

[ornate lance]

can i join in ur discussions

[wild sapphire]

If everyone gets tangled up in here i will stop engaging

I wont let this become a bar room brawl

[flint anchor]

What cherrypicking? 😭
Aren't those the words of god too?

[lofty hound]

no, let them finish

[ornate lance]

oaky

[wild sapphire]

Cherrypicking means choosing a particular point, removing it from its context, and then presenting it as the whole picture

Which is what you did, because you are largely ignorant of how Christianity works except for the parts you like to use in debate

Goodbye

[flint anchor]

You literally are the one who's doing that lol

[wild sapphire]

@hollow cave and your definition- where is it from

[wild sapphire]

I have read the bible every day for years

[flint anchor]

Run away lil kid

[wild sapphire]

I know what the context is very well

Thats how i know you are ignorant

[ornate lance]

but which bible ur talking about is it the true one

?

[wild sapphire]

Im not leaving, i am saying your argument is so poorly contrived as to be beneath my notice or effort

I am talking to basmala primarily

[flint anchor]

U do the same with Islam, and when i do it with Christianity you get mad and running away 😭

[wild sapphire]

Answering you is a favor, but you have nothing to offer

[hollow cave]

It's agian not violence
It's violence when they force people they came I told u already they sent messengers to the ruler if js one of them did as the Romain empreopr there won't be any conquest from the beginning It's the bottom line
Christianity knowned as the emprore entered
And the only way in that time to make people know as unfortunately there wasn't internet is conquest even they did and didn't force anyone to enter Islam after if the whole people's country didn't enter It's not a problem they now know what Islam is

[wild sapphire]

So our micro debate is over until you try something else

[dapper laurel]

So what's the problem?

[thorny steeple]

And that’s why we generally don’t rely on the views of 'some Islamic scholars.' Instead, we rely on a broad scholarly consensus among experts from diverse backgrounds to avoid motivated reasoning and other forms of bias.

[hollow cave]

Islam itself
Because I read the context first

[thorny steeple]

And you're willing to discount it to preserve your fundamentalist view

[flint anchor]

So basically you're not able to refute it, so you had to run away?

[wild sapphire]

In short- divinely mandated violence is not singular to Islam- it does exist in Judaism as well- where the difference lies is in Christ- Christ abolishes this mandate and instead mandates love and the forgiveness of sins

Muhammad does not

Muhammad passes along the mandate for violence into perpetuity

You would know the difference if you werent cherrypicking

[ornate lance]

but quran is never ever changed in contrary to the bible

[wild sapphire]

Which you are

Because you are a troll

[dapper laurel]

It depends on what you mean by changed

[wild sapphire]

And now you get no more time from me

Basmala wrote me a book to read

It is probably more justifications for violence

[flint anchor]

Before you criticize others' religion, look at your own religion first.

[wild sapphire]

Let me check

[hollow cave]

Dude don't read

[wild sapphire]

More justifications for violence

[ornate lance]

like the way it is sent to muhammad came to our day without getting changed by people and there is some proofs like museums

[dapper laurel]

It doesn't take a genius to criticize Islam btw

[wild sapphire]

Basmala, when Muslims conquered a country through armed invasion, did they exert physical force intended to hurt, damage or kill

[wild sapphire]

Andos, are you agreeing with their position

How bad faith are you

[ornate lance]

but i think islam is stronger than christianity in every aspects

[dapper laurel]

All religions are ambiguous in some ways, but Islam is virtually indefensible

[ornate lance]

like logic

[wild sapphire]

Islam is the most illogical of the Abrahamic faiths

[flint anchor]

Do you mean there is no something like that in the New testament?

[dapper laurel]

I'm not

[wild sapphire]

It is not predicated on logic

[ornate lance]

what's your evidence when saying that

[hollow cave]

That's true it's a valid point actually as I don't know how I would believe in smth I'm not sure who wrote it and what exactly has been changed from the original book like Bible
But here I mean by context reading the whole surah to know what's is talking abt and this talk for who

[wild sapphire]

In the New Testament, the disciples attempt to invoke divine judgement on people who reject Jesus and Jesus scolds them for failing to understand His purpose

[dapper laurel]

The history of your religion proves it, even what you do today is a clear example

[wild sapphire]

There is a final apocalyptic battle between satan and God but this does not constitute a divine mandate for violence

Christians are called to preach redemption of sins and to love our enemies

[ornate lance]

what do i do today

[wild sapphire]

Muslims are allowed to use physical violence to spread their message

[ornate lance]

islam is not responsible for what im doing

[flint anchor]

It doesn't take a child who can read to refute the whole Bible without using any other sources

[wild sapphire]

A child who could read would make better arguments than you

[dapper laurel]

In many Muslim countries Christians are persecuted and civil rights are only optional

[ornate lance]

no there's a surah in quran against that like la ikrahe fiddin

u can read it

[wild sapphire]

The quran existed in several variations until Caliphate Uthman gathered them all and burned them before canonizing the copy you have today

Uthman decided what the definitive quran is

[hollow cave]

have u heard wt I said a thousand time it's first not invasion it's conquest and again they did as it was the only way to get the Islam known at that time

[wild sapphire]

The preservation of so many biblical manuscripts actually allows us to verify the authenticity of what we do have

[ornate lance]

there's no forcing in the religion before u accept it

[wild sapphire]

As opposed to uthman’a book burning

[hollow cave]

Wt ? It was the same Quran it wasn't js written that's the whole thing

[wild sapphire]

No uthman burned them because of the confusion that began to emerge over which version was correct

He wanted to clear that issue so he did

By burning the variations and choosing the one he felt was most correct

[lofty hound]

https://tenor.com/view/zakir-naik-dr-zakir-naik-peace-tv-network-peace-tv-the-brother-asked-a-very-good-question-gif-5352541208858866789

[ornate lance]

there's no much difference like in the bible

[wild sapphire]

Anyway

[ornate lance]

bible is compeletely changed hundreds of times

[wild sapphire]

I dont mind this but the essential topic of debate was whether or not Islam is a religion of peace

[ornate lance]

it is

[hollow cave]

Wt that fuck ? It's one version then and now and always
They were typing some surah in to study so he basically gathered them all to one book but there's no difference it's the same thing

[wild sapphire]

As Basmala failed to make even a singular argument that denied or even concealed the existence of Islam’s mandates of violence or even its history of violence

And as Basmala is not making any new arguments

Basmala’s point is lost

Islam is not a religion of peace

I excuse myself now

[hollow cave]

According to u

[ornate lance]

u need to get that into ur mind that islam does not support violence

i mean the true islam

[thorny steeple]

Jesus, two sides pushing hilariously bad-faith readings of history and arguments in defense of their own religion, to make their side look better.

[wild sapphire]

Emmet, it does- the best Basmala was able to do was to justify it, they never denied it happened, only that there were reasons

[ornate lance]

because there are false groups in islam that are exteremist

[wild sapphire]

Let them call Islam a religion of righteousness

Or a religion of goodness

But it is not a religion of peace by any metric at all

[dapper laurel]

I don't think they will ever understand

[ornate lance]

don't need to learn islam from basmala learn it from its source and trusted sources

[wild sapphire]

After failing even a single time to insert yourself into this discussion in any meaningful capacity you finally decide to spit the tongue at both parties and leave to nurse your ego

[ornate lance]

yes there are some exteremist groups in islam that emerged in the modern age but it's a false version of islam that they are trayna spread

[wild sapphire]

@hollow cave thank you for your time

[wild sapphire]

Thank you for your hopeless idealism

[ornate lance]

but it does not mean islam supports violence

[ornate lance]

what do u mean i did not get it

[wild sapphire]

@flint anchor im sorry you dont like going to church

[flint anchor]

But that's not what i found in the New testament.

God says I had to be killed without Mercy if I reject the law of Moses.

Hebrews 10:28 NIV
Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

[wild sapphire]

Lol no

Since it is just us now i will field this last error from you

The book of hebrews is designed to juxtapose the teachings of the old testament with the new

Here is the whole passage

[ornate lance]

but do u accept that quran is actually stronger in terms of evidence when compared to the bible

[dapper laurel]

When your religion becomes too uncomfortable you deny it, unfortunately Islam is a religion stuck in the Middle Ages and you have to learn to deal with this

[wild sapphire]

In the first half of the chapter, Paul contrasts the imperfect use of animal sacrifices with the perfect sacrifice of Christ

[shut coyote]

Hi chat

[wild sapphire]

He then compares the imperfect priesthood of the OT with the perfect priesthood of Christ

[ornate lance]

what can i do when it's the false version that they blieve in
islam is no such a religion like that where u kill people

[wild sapphire]

And then he says

If, in the Old Testament, if under Moses’s law, the punishment for presumptuous sin was this severe

[dapper laurel]

But in your history you have always done it, and even brutally, was that also false Islam?

[flint anchor]

I didn't even say anything lol, just brought up a verse from your book and you started panicking.

[wild sapphire]

Im not panicking i am dealing with you as with a petulant child

I am just taking the time to do your homework

You did a google search and didnt even bother to read the chapter leastways the book

[ornate lance]

no we have never killed innocent and harmless people in history

[wild sapphire]

You are copy and pasting indiscriminately and with zero understanding then smirking at your display of stupidity

[ornate lance]

i mean selefiyye groups that kills people

it's not how islam should be lived

[dapper laurel]

I don't understand why they are so obsessed with Christianity when Christian theologians have already debunked them extensively

[wild sapphire]

Let them

He probably comes from a christian family and hates it who knows

Anyway there can be valid reasons

I used to hate God myself

[dapper laurel]

The Ottomans and the Umayyads don't mean anything to you?

[wild sapphire]

I used to debate Christians

Even if his literary reasoning is poor

[thorny steeple]

Well, I don't have to pick a side. If you’re willing to bend history or science to fit your narrative, there’s no common ground. You can’t land a single argument because both sides keep shapeshifting whenever it suits them. It's the perfect example of what we mean by bad faith. Both sides are biased and it's so obvious to an observer.

[ornate lance]

yes they have never killed innocent poeple

[wild sapphire]

You made up a bunch of random facts then sank into quiet funk when i pressed you on any specifics

You throw around big words like science and “majority” and scholars and then provide nothing of substance

[ornate lance]

they just spread islam
yes there can be some flaws of them

[dapper laurel]

Instead they did, first of all they conducted wars of conquest against often defenseless and harmless peoples just to spread their religion

[ornate lance]

no they did not

[wild sapphire]

Anyway rhetoros

The passage you quoted me is Paul juxtaposing Judaism with Christianity

That is why he is quoting the law of Moses

He is not saying that is how Christianity works, he is comparing it to Christianity

The entire book of Hebrews does this

It is the point of the book

[ornate lance]

the conclusion that i came to is that u christians knows nothing about the correct islam that quran and the prophet talks about in his hadiths

[dapper laurel]

We judge by what we see of you, not by what you claim to be

[ornate lance]

i say it is not the true islam that quran includes right?

islam is actually a religion of peace and love

[wild sapphire]

You and I can debate another time, you tried anyway

Next time though let me finish my first debate

More courteous

[ornate lance]

even the word islam itself comes from the root s l m which means peace

[dapper laurel]

Peace and love you say

[wild sapphire]

Religion of Peace 2: Electric Boogaloo

Revenge of the Peace

The Peace Strikes Back

[ornate lance]

and this ayat "And We have not sent you, [O Muhammad], except as a mercy to the worlds."
u need to learn islam from the quran and hadits not from empires u need to learn it from its own source

[wild sapphire]

Attack of the Peace

[dapper laurel]

It's just empty rhetoric if you don't put it into action

[ornate lance]

timur was an exterimist commander who was not a decent muslim

[wild sapphire]

Yeah i like star wars

[ornate lance]

but that's not islam's fault itself its the fault of false groups that claim themselves to be muslims

[upper peak]

Today is a world environment day but we don't have enough drinking water 🌊 but please here defending thier religion.. they saying thier religion is best , all stupid, all vain , come to the topic and discuss..

[wild sapphire]

You are right

Where should i send my water

[wild sapphire]

Doubtless you only stopped by to remind us of the need to help those in need before leaving to do so yourself

This is righteous and good of you

[upper peak]

Hur hur

[slender coral]

I pretty sure it's not. Traditional scholars would never call it that.

[lofty hound]

excuse me, this is just an ad

[wild sapphire]

Basmala and I just finished

This is a remaster

A remake

[wild sapphire]

Good show

Bad zuko

[dapper laurel]

If your religion isn't able to be understood by a large section of you, then the Quran is not as holy and perfect as they want you to believe

Historically Muslims have been violent, there is little to add

[wild sapphire]

I dont understand

Is he saying the fire nation is israel

[ornate lance]

but that is the fault of an empire not the quran and islam

[dapper laurel]

And even in the modern era they have continued with their atrocities, they will never change

[ornate lance]

u need to learn the real islam not the false one

[wild sapphire]

Rhetoros is going to make me teach him the bible

Makes me sad

[ornate lance]

from quran or the prophet muhammad's various hadiths

[dapper laurel]

It can't always be a coincidence, people behave in a way because your religion has made them understand to behave that way

[ornate lance]

no

[dapper laurel]

So you're telling me that true Islam, a bit like communism, has never really been applied?

[lofty hound]

just an analogy, its sarcasm ig

[wild sapphire]

Can you talk to rhetoros about the last airbender

He is bored and wants to debate

But he doesnt know what he is talking about and basically i have to do my part and his part and its painfully tedious

[feral river]

I don't give a fuck about whether it encourages to kill people or something else because it was all based on some shit rules which was made by the leader of islamic empire in the past

[wild sapphire]

Power power power

[feral river]

now it's 21 century

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war, minecraft

[feral river]

if you wanna enforce that on us, then we go to war

[flint anchor]

Why does it have to juxtapose? Isn't both god's words? Or God issues contradictory teachings?

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war

[dapper laurel]

And you also continued throughout the history, how is it possible that you never understood? @ornate lance

[wild sapphire]

You took a long time to admit you had no idea what you were quoting when you quoted it

If you were sincere i would bother to answer you

[feral river]

unnecessary, just DECLARE THE WAR

[flint anchor]

Isn't the ot also the words of god? How can it be imperfect?

[wild sapphire]

But since this merely another attempt to troll, and this amounts to a concession from you, i release you

[ornate lance]

i agree

the god should be one and flawless

[dapper laurel]

The Crusades existed for a reason 🤠

[ornate lance]

at least it is like that in islam

[feral river]

they are nothing but a bunch of useless electricity in your brain

[ornate lance]

that god is flawless

[dapper laurel]

Now I was justifying war goal

[wild sapphire]

This conversation is really special

[feral river]

which disrupt your ability to know what's the fucking truth

[ornate lance]

why prove it

[flint anchor]

Ahhh yeah sure

[wild sapphire]

Im sure my son

[lofty hound]

I dont have time to argue pal, the only thing im on discord is fun and chill vibes

[wild sapphire]

I said talk not argue

[prisma plume]

I see we have a serious chat going on

[wild sapphire]

Last airbender is a great show

[feral river]

the guy would believe in nothing ask me to prove why there's nothing

what the fuck bro

[ornate lance]

but i think it's not as simple as that

[ornate lance]

so ur an atheist

[feral river]

it is, there's no fucking shit called that

[wild sapphire]

Declare the war

[feral river]

if you think some invincible being that created everything is god which you can't observe

why can't it be my ass ?

[flint anchor]

I was reading interpretations of the verse and no one said what you said

[feral river]

can you prove my ass is not the god ?

lmfao

[flint anchor]

Just say you can't

[wild sapphire]

I summarized the purpose of the book and the point of that passage

The reasons for his contrasting examples vary

[ornate lance]

yes because ur ass is something that is born

[feral river]

how ? did you observe it ?

or you go into it when I was sleeping

[ornate lance]

and god is not born by someone

[feral river]

how did you know that

[wild sapphire]

God exists in eternity, but we exist in linear time, and His plan unfolds in chronological sequence

[ornate lance]

even if u can observe it it's something that is gonna die and be nothing and disappear

[wild sapphire]

The plan is perfect, but the part that is over makes way for the part that needs to happen now

It is not that complicated

You are just being ridiculous

[feral river]

how you can say something you didn't directly observe, exist ?

it's like saying aliens exist all around the earth even you don't have any evidence

that was totally fucked bro

[ornate lance]

because we know from the things that he sent to us such us quran and the prophets like muhammad and jesus

[wild sapphire]

If i gave you a ten step plan, and moved on to step 4, would you attempt to argue that the plan is a bad one because i didnt stop at step 1 or 2

dont be so pedantic

[ornate lance]

we have a lot of evidence

[feral river]

yeah some fake book made by your leader and he's a human too to rule all of you guys under his regime

[ornate lance]

whether it's based on logic or somethign like that

[flint anchor]

No one said what you said, so you interpret the text according to your opinion so you can answer me

[feral river]

and his regime is done, totally done

[wild sapphire]

Okay specifically what are you talking about

[ornate lance]

yes he was a human but he was a prophet

[feral river]

it's like praise the 13th century Kim Jong Un

[wild sapphire]

The purpose of hebrews? The point of that specific verse? What?

[feral river]

under a political ideology book of Quran

[lofty hound]

agree,
The film has a lot of philosophy in each story. The journey of the protagonist group brings a deep impression in character development. Especially Zuko, he who was initially a villain develops into a character who wants to be a better person.

sometimes I feel, we are all zuko. A bad person who try to be better

[feral river]

LMFAO

[wild sapphire]

Send me what you found so i know what you want me to address or clarify

Who interpreted it for you and what did they say

Send me

[ornate lance]

if u search about it u can see it's not just a book written by a human it's sent by god

because the verses prove it

[feral river]

how do you know what you searched is not faked by somebody else

how do you know that definitely is because you see other's saying it

[wild sapphire]

I know they didnt interpret it the way you did because you have zero idea about anything @flint anchor

[ornate lance]

bacause there are considerable evidences

[flint anchor]

And you're just saying nonsense and every time I ask you a question you start panicking and crying without giving an answer lol

[ornate lance]

like in the museums

[feral river]

you didn't answer any of these questions but believeing some shit which doesn't have any evidence to proof its existence

[ornate lance]

and things like tha

[wild sapphire]

I have answered you every time

[feral river]

say it

[ornate lance]

wait let me dm u about it

[feral river]

what considerable evidences ? did you directly observe it ?

[wild sapphire]

You keep hoping that the next time will be the time you get me- you are just being a clown and i keep fielding your misinterpretations and juvenile attempts at argument in long suffering patience

Send me what new thing you found now

[flint anchor]

No, but that's different from what we're talking about.

[wild sapphire]

As you trawl the internet for new arguments

[wild sapphire]

The old testament is step 1, new testament is step 2

[feral river]

the last guy came out and claiming that he's the cousin of the Jesus for a revolution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Xiuquan

[thorny steeple]

Because what you're asking for an absurdly specific number—like 193,195 out of 213,124—not because it's crucial to prove my point, but to play gotcha and move the goalposts. You know full well no one can provide that kind of precision, and more importantly, it’s not necessary. I could give you respected Christian scholars—you'd call them biased. I could point to polls or historical Jesus seminars—you'd question at the methodology or dismiss the source. Let's be honest: you don't play this game of hyper skepticism to any other historical claim or fact in science. You also see through it when muslims play similar game in regards to their own religion, and rightly call them out on it.
Of course, If I ask you to Google it or ask Wikipedia or ChatGPT, you'd also dismisa s them as biased.

[flint anchor]

Hebrews 10:28 explanation

[wild sapphire]

Moses law is step 1, but christians are living in step 2

[ornate lance]

there are tons of it u can search them by yourself too but let me send u soem

[feral river]

a total outdated ideology

[eager geyser]

whats so serious

[wild sapphire]

If you make an absurd claim come prepared with absurd numbers

[ornate lance]

“The Romans have been defeated in a nearby land. But after their defeat, they will overcome [their enemies] within a few years...”

[wild sapphire]

That’s how it works pal

[ornate lance]

and there are scientific miracles liek

"We created man from an extract of clay… then We made him into a clinging clot (alaqah)…”

[feral river]

I can say it too does that make me the god ?

[ornate lance]

u know these thing right now

[feral river]

LMFAO

[wild sapphire]

Okay i told you what hebrews is doing with that passage and i will tell you what hebrews is saying with that passage specifically

[flint anchor]

Just type 'Hebrews 10:28 explanation' on Google and read

[ornate lance]

but it is said thaosands of years ago

[feral river]

sounds like if I would mention some science shit that everybody knows then I would be the scientist

what the fuck is that stupid logic

[ornate lance]

no can u know that thing thaosand years ago

[flint anchor]

You're too delusional lol

[feral river]

so how do you know that fuck about that

and how could you dare to say that's the truth

[ornate lance]

because today it's proven

i mean the develepment of the embriyo

[feral river]

how it's being proven, by what

by something doesn't exist ?

[ornate lance]

science man

science has proven us

[feral river]

so science prove there's something happened in before, and you claim it's what the god says so everybody believe the fucking god even we don't know what is that shit

[wild sapphire]

Okay so verses 19-39 contrast the warning of Mosaic law with the warning of falling away from the Christian faith. Paul knows or suspects that some Christians may be thinking of leaving the faith, and he contrasts the Christian faith with the law of Moses. As is a recurring theme of Hebrews, he emphasizes the material reality of the Old Testament Law with the Spiritual realities of the New Testament law. He says to them, “if the punishment for breaking Moses’s law under such conditions was death, then we can extrapolate that if we choose to willfully abandon the faith after we have received ample knowledge of the truth, there can be no salvation for us- don’t give up your faith, hold on to the end

[thorny steeple]

Would you do me an honour and ask any AI or google this question, and then report me with what you've found? "How many bible scholars believe that the bible accurately reflects what the historical Jesus had said?"

[feral river]

why didn't the god did not prove that shit in before when science didn't come to make you know the truth

[wild sapphire]

You really have no idea how silly you sound to me because your arguments all sound like google copy pastes

But i keep reasoning with you as a favor to you

[ornate lance]

no hear me out it was proven thasounds of years ago by quran and now the science says the exact same thign

[wild sapphire]

Would you mind doing your own research before making up baloney

[feral river]

dude I'm being honest with you, there's so many fucking questions and even I can pick a random one these stuff could not stand against it

[wild sapphire]

Same to you rhetoros

Kids trying to debate with zero idea of what they are debating

Their egos are on the line so they cant escape

They just keep digging the hole

[rocky coyote]

what's good lads

[wild sapphire]

One must imagine Sisyphus happy

[rocky coyote]

looks like everyone's riled up

[feral river]

just declare the war

war would solve everything

[wild sapphire]

I DECLARE THE WAR

[thorny steeple]

Thanks for confirming my suspicions, so I can finally let go of trying to push this rock.

[rocky coyote]

oh you guys were arguing over interpretations nvm

[flint anchor]

I don't, stop being delusional lil bro.
It all started when you accused Islam of using violence, so I brought you a verse from your book that incites violence and killing, then you started crying to deny it and say that it is not perfect. Assuming this is true, it does not justify the violence at that time.

[wild sapphire]

It took you an hour to finally give me the answer of “ask chat gpt”

You didnt even try to push the rock

You sat on your couch and asked someone else to move it for you

Lazy and dishonest individual that you are

[ornate lance]

hey isn that right bumperfish

[wild sapphire]

No you cherrypicked, i slapped you down, and then you cherrypicked again, and i slapped you down again

[rocky coyote]

oh it got racist 😭

[wild sapphire]

And we keep doing that over and over

[ornate lance]

no hear me out it was proven thasounds of years ago by quran and now the science says the exact same thign

[wild sapphire]

What is the racism

[deft hearth]

What did?

[feral river]

racism doesn't exist here

we all are ethnic states

[rocky coyote]

just a few while i was scrolling up, theyre not from the guys arguing rn

[wild sapphire]

Well hypothetically if

[feral river]

oh simply "racist states"

[wild sapphire]

Oh oof

[ornate lance]

how old are u

[rocky coyote]

are you serious

[wild sapphire]

Are you asking minecraft?

Rhetoros really

[rocky coyote]

oh the person asking for your age

[ornate lance]

no u

[wild sapphire]

Are you that bored

You keep slurping up L’s can you go to bed

[ornate lance]

yes tbh im bored

[wild sapphire]

Not you emmet

Emmet, basmala, they debate what they know

They have a working knowledge of their topic of debate

Rhetoros is ignorant

But he cant admit this

Each time i reveal this to him, he goes back to google and tries to find a new angle

Or chatgpt

Idk

[ornate lance]

so what about u ur the smartest of us?

[wild sapphire]

Im not the smartest

[wild sapphire]

Im complimenting you and basmala

[ornate lance]

i know

[flint anchor]

Yea as i said too delusional. You answer my questions and your answer interprets the texts according to your opinion to delude yourself into victory and then flatter yourself.

[wild sapphire]

Im definitely not the smartest lol

Ask rhetoros

[wild sapphire]

It’s weird when you talk about yourself in the second person

[ornate lance]

haha

[ornate lance]

it was funny

[wild sapphire]

I try

To varying degrees of success

[flint anchor]

Literally a kid lol, good luck mate until u find answers to my questions

[ornate lance]

but i think islam is not what u all think it is

you need to gain more knowledge about it

[rocky coyote]

i finally got to bumper's basic arguments. his points are singlehandedly strengthened by the fact that Muhammad was a renowned war general 😭

[wild sapphire]

I have answered every single one of your questions, which is a disservice because you should have known the things i told you before presenting your piss poor arguments

[wild sapphire]

Impossible to argue otherwise

Rhetoros is locked in mortal combat

With his own fat ego

[true lark]

That is not constructive debating Bumper, even if its true. Personal insults won't get you anywhere

[wild sapphire]

Fair fair

[true lark]

I'm not saying it is or isn't true, I haven't read the conversation

[wild sapphire]

Rhetoros is struggling to overcome the personal challenge of admitting that he should have come better prepared before making false assertions about other people’s beliefs

That’s a more balanced way of putting it

[flint anchor]

Your answer: the ot (which is god's words too) is bad and the nt is good.

I give you a verse from the nt, your answer: you don't understand and start interpreting the text according to your opinion to delude yourself into winning.

Keep going champ, Christianity needs more kids like you.

[wild sapphire]

This is not what i said

[manic juniper]

Classic

[wild sapphire]

Thank you isfrun

Always insightful as usual

[wild sapphire]

Thank you for your time

[flint anchor]

Sure lol

[wild sapphire]

Where did i say ot is bad and nt is good

[flint anchor]

Reread the thread

[wild sapphire]

This isnt even cherry picking, it is just outright lying

[wild sapphire]

I dont need to reread what i said, because i know i wouldnt say that, since it isnt good contextually informed theology

If i said it, it is there, and you should be able to quote me

[rocky coyote]

wait whybdid that reply bumper's msg

[wild sapphire]

Yes basmala made the case that muhammad always asked nicely

Before going to war

[manic juniper]

He told people that if they wouldn't convert their cities would be destroyed

He also insulted pagans more often than not

He literally can't stay more than 5 minutes without insulting pagans. Not only this, he once gave a point by instakilling a tree. Just why

This is ridiculous, you can give a point without killing

[true lark]

@manic juniper By the way, is it just me or did you move your proficiency tag up not too long ago?

[manic juniper]

I always set it to fluent because it's blue

[wild sapphire]

Lol you are talking about Jesus

[manic juniper]

Yes

[wild sapphire]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but if Jesus is right then pagans are wrong

[rocky coyote]

those were preached when he was directly ordained by God to spread the good word, as did the other abrahamic prophets according to the islamic canon. he didn't light the fuse to some other wars in equal measure.

[manic juniper]

He also transferred demons into pigs' bodies and made them kill themselves

[true lark]

Oh odd, I don't know why I remember different

[wild sapphire]

Also He doesn’t insult pagans, He usually criticizes the Jewish orthodoxy

[manic juniper]

That's not the point, he is racist towards them

[wild sapphire]

His entire ministry was basically to the Jews

[manic juniper]

I don't care about pagans being good or bad, he always shittalks them

[rocky coyote]

islam in general demonizes pagans

[wild sapphire]

He barely talks to any non Jews and whenever He does they are held up as role models except Pilate

[flint anchor]

You deny the Old Testament to get out of the question and interpret the New Testament according to your opinion for the same reason and you think that this way you have won and you start to flatter yourself. This was the summary of the discussion. You are probably a child under 16.

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun has stumbled on a thing she doesnt know

Which is rare

[manic juniper]

Christianity does too, not to the same extent tho. It depicts them as backwards or less dogmatic, which is ironically a good trait according to Jesus

[wild sapphire]

Ah noooo i didnt

Can you quote me saying this either

[manic juniper]

What? You don't need to talk to non-Jews to be racist. Why are you changing the argument

[rocky coyote]

one of the many commonly taught passages to islamic grade schoolers was about axing pagan statues 😭

[manic juniper]

Black people were ghettoed in the United States, most people didn't talk to them. Are you telling me they were less racist than today because they interacted with black people to a lesser extent? This is ridiculous

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, your assertion is that Jesus insults pagans

1. jesus’s entire ministry takes place to Jews
2. He almost never ministers to non Jews
3. Whenever a non Jew shows up, they are held up as examples of faith
4. Except pilate
5. So what are you talking about exactly

[manic juniper]

Jesus shittalks pagans and gentiles to his disciples all the times, you don't need an exegesis to realise it. Simply read the gospel

[wild sapphire]

Where???

Oh he does mention the way pagans pray

[flint anchor]

Reread the thread, don't have the time to quote u

[manic juniper]

Why are you changing argument again? I said that you don't need to talk directly to a person to insult or be racist towards them

[wild sapphire]

Yes, he says dont pray as the gentiles do, repeating things, since God hears you the first time

[rocky coyote]

before and after, actually

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, i told you i would believe the best of you

[rocky coyote]

wait i thought we're talking about muhammad? jesus had a much more hospital view of pagans

[wild sapphire]

And to be truthful, you categorically dont deserve this from me at all, but in the interest of keeping my word

I will assume this is language barrier and misunderstanding and nothing else

The initial argument you made was that he couldbt go five minutes without insulting pagans

You shifted the goal posts

Okay so in that case, how does Jesus be racist without saying it out loud

[manic juniper]

I didn't lmao

[flint anchor]

Lol, even a Christian like you realized how foolish he is

[manic juniper]

I said that he's racist and you shifted it to him talking to non-Jews more?

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, how does he insult pagans every five minutes

[manic juniper]

I'm not a Christian

[manic juniper]

Read the gospel of Matthews

[flint anchor]

Whatever you are

[wild sapphire]

I am speaking to the fact that His rhetoric, His criticism, is all levied at the Jews themselves

And whenever He does interact with a gentile, and this is rare

He always praises them for being righteous and faithful

[manic juniper]

I don't care about his interactions with gentiles

[wild sapphire]

What do you mean by pagans?

[manic juniper]

As I said it's like basing racism off interactions between people. That's not how racist works, you can be racist towards people you never met

[wild sapphire]

Jewish practitioners?

[manic juniper]

Gentiles are all pagans

We are talking about the first century

[wild sapphire]

Noooo….. that’s not how that is handled in the gospels

He meets gentiles who believe in Him

And they almost always demonstrate more faith than their Jewish counteparts

Jesus always highlights this

[manic juniper]

The Bible I've read used gentile and pagan, it surely refers to most people alive during that time

[wild sapphire]

I wouldnt mind an example so i can at least understand your pov

[manic juniper]

They are few

[flint anchor]

And he called them dogs

[manic juniper]

He surely didn't refer to them because if I generalise an entire group I'm talking about the average

[wild sapphire]

Maybe its a finnish thing idk

None of my bibles substitute pagans for gentiles

[manic juniper]

If I say "the height of Chinese people" I'm not referring to the Chinese people I've met, I'm referring to the average height of a Chinese guy

Also I like how you didn't deny that he instakilled an innocent tree just to prove a point

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, our sense of

Mmm, scale,

[manic juniper]

Not only this but he killed pigs by making them run off a cliff, he transferred demons into their bodies

[wild sapphire]

Is a little bit different

[manic juniper]

Couldn't he transfer those demons in a bacteria's body? They'd die shortly after of old age

NO NEED TO THROW THEM OFF A CLIFF

[wild sapphire]

Rhetoros, Isfrun is infinitely better at debate than you

[manic juniper]

Couldn't he transfer them into his own cells? Lol

[flint anchor]

Matthew 15:24-27 NIV

He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.” The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said. He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs.” “Yes it is, Lord,” she said. “Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master’s table.”

[wild sapphire]

You are not winning any points here

[manic juniper]

Yeah, we can call these token gentiles

[wild sapphire]

You are on her side in terms of ideology and goals, but you are a dishonest person and ill prepared

[flint anchor]

Yea that's why you didn't answer every question i asked 😭

[manic juniper]

By the time he dies he doesn't seem to have changed his mind on gentiles as a whole, perhaps he may have a slightly improved opinion

[manic juniper]

How? Isn't he a Muslim, I'm not on anyone's side

[wild sapphire]

I answered every question and as you demonstrated when you attempted to summarize my points you lack reading comprehension

[wild sapphire]

No he is salty and wants you to get me for his sake

And he isnt muslim

At least as i am aware

[flint anchor]

Keep being delusional bro

[wild sapphire]

Okay for a moment

Assume a premise for me

[flint anchor]

Yea sure, lol

[wild sapphire]

Let’s talk about Jesus as a mythological character, denying His reality for a moment

I imagine you are already there anyway

[manic juniper]

https://www.bible.com/bible/1/MAT.18.17

[wild sapphire]

If we talk about Jesus as a fictional character, then it becomes easier to acknowledge the more miraculous elements. You are doing this already when you refer to the pigs and the trees

[manic juniper]

And how do you treat a pagan, out of curiosity?

[verbal abyss]

You were owl 10 hours ago

[wild sapphire]

I treat everyone the same

Well no, let me rephrase that

[manic juniper]

No, I'm asking a rhetorical question on that passage

[wild sapphire]

Mmmm not sure what you mean

[manic juniper]

He says to treat them differently, that's strange. And he even compares them to tax collectors

[wild sapphire]

Isfrun, it sounds like your translation uses the word pagan a lot

Again even one example would help make your meaning more clear

[manic juniper]

Heathen means pagan

Lol, it's literally right there

[wild sapphire]

Oh okay

Well do you know how Jesus treats publicans and heathens

He is talking to His Jewish disciples

The Jewish people hated publicans and heathens

For their sake, He uses an example that conveys His meaning in a way they understand

But Jesus Himself does not treat publican and heathens this way

This is one of the reasons given for why the Pharisees hate him

Because He spent time with the publicans and helped the people the Jews considered to be the scum

They complain about Him for this all the time

And then, as part of this narrative, by the time He has risen from the dead

He appears to Peter who refuses to eat with non jews