🧠｜serious-chat

[void arch]

u ve neglected the source and still think u ll know everything objectively which is absurd.

it s necessary to know what is obj true from the source. as the fact we re limited.

[dense agate]

this is the internet, why would i be lying

[thorny steeple]

are you also muslim

[verbal torrent]

No

[thorny steeple]

Is Islam hard and conservative?

[thorny steeple]

whats your religion?

[dense agate]

neither god or religion redefine objectivity, nothing stopping us from projecting it on them at a fundamental level, unless we have biases or other things to stop us from doing so

[prime ore]

All religions was like that but nowadays everyone do whatever they want

[verbal torrent]

I dont have one

[thorny steeple]

theistice to athiestic?

[verbal torrent]

The second one

[dense agate]

A religion can be many things based on interpretations, but many of the Muslim societies are conservative

[thorny steeple]

I dont think so

[thorny steeple]

culturally not by religion

[thorny steeple]

What was your family religion?

[dense agate]

you don't think there is constant influence between these 2 ?

[verbal torrent]

Islam

[prime ore]

Why

[prime ore]

I have many Christian friends and I feel like their religion is not less conservative than Islam

[thorny steeple]

You arent conservative, culture are conservative, rleigion itself is beautiful

[verbal torrent]

Ayoub the muslim typing
Pls
Im not ready to read paragraph

[void arch]

the answer is in ur last part ,we will never be able to do so as we are actually limited in knowledge and we have many biases and different opinions..

[thorny steeple]

Only culture brings conservativism, not religion

[thorny steeple]

why did you left it?

[thorny steeple]

orthodoxy was never in any religion

not even any

[thorny steeple]

Kalam?

[void arch]

no just simple logic

[dense agate]

then you can never make a claim with 100% certainty, yet you were pretty convinced God's morality is objective

[thorny steeple]

DM me your aqeedah

[verbal torrent]

Mmm firstly I don't think I've ever called myself a Muslim and so I can't say that I've "left" Islam because I was never even there I was just raised that way by my parents because they are muslim
And Idont like to talk to people about my views on religion

[void arch]

where the problem if we get objective morality from the only source that can determine it in absolute accuracy?

[prime ore]

I’m mean they use this word like it’s a bad sign where the religion is all about rules and we should stick to it

[dense agate]

How would you know that ?

you're saying you can't know anything for certain, yet you're saying that

[weary latch]

The size of the Thigh is proportional to Mortality.

[void arch]

the source is not me, could u undersatnd ?

[thorny steeple]

are rules fixed?

[void arch]

God is the necessary existence.

[dense agate]

You're certain the source has absolute accuracy

[thorny steeple]

we are given guidance we need to implement it, you derived mrality

[dense agate]

How can you be fully certain of this, if we can't be certain of anything ?

[thorny steeple]

@void arch what juridispiction you follow?

@dense agate you too what school of thought you gfollow

[void arch]

all i could say is do ur own research on islam . Islam has many evidences to prove his truthfulness .

[prime ore]

Mostly yes

[thorny steeple]

How?

[void arch]

as i said there are accessible evidences .

[void arch]

Saimon is not a muslim

[thorny steeple]

is he athiest?

[void arch]

maybe

[night cedar]

Did u delete ur message?

[thorny steeple]

yes

[thorny steeple]

what is your aqeedah and school of thought?

[thorny steeple]

I doubted you confirmed

[verbal torrent]

Wht is aqedah

[thorny steeple]

why you want to know

[verbal torrent]

Wow

[verbal torrent]

I am just curious

[thorny steeple]

set of beliefs or faith similar to it

[prime ore]

Ok like there are cardinals it’s fixed,
Inheritance rules are fixed, and other rules
I think there is no something changeable in the rules but with the differences in situations between the past and today there is some situations that require fatwa ( an opinion from an Islamic scholar) and its based on the fixed rules but it requires someone who is specialized in religious science u get me?

[thorny steeple]

sociality, social justice system

How about it?

[old cypress]

Anyone interested in music?

[thorny steeple]

Why will we be?

[old cypress]

Just asking

Are you offended?

[thorny steeple]

No

[prime ore]

Ok I’m interested 😭

[old cypress]

Okay cool, just wanna start a conversation yk don't wanna cause any trouble 🥲

[old cypress]

Oh you are??

Wait lemme guess, can you sing?

[thorny steeple]

why cant you do something to rules, why cant you do changes to the system

[prime ore]

No and stop talking about music here pls

[thorny steeple]

dont you think guide is eternal

you can implement it according to you

[old cypress]

Aight cool

[thorny steeple]

cant you derive from the guidance of God? @void arch

[prime ore]

Because this is the point of religion it’s from god not us
I’m busy now I will be back I 30mins

[verbal torrent]

Drce chill wtf

[prisma cipher]

Chill out Zehra

[verbal torrent]

I cant stand this type of people

[prisma cipher]

I don't even read his messages

[verbal torrent]

Вот так

[thorny steeple]

ok

[prime ore]

What do u want to get to?
Like tell us the issue u wanna change and then we will discuss

[thorny steeple]

My point is with the social systems, and Ijtihad

I hope you get the point

I read aqeedahs Kalam now I m confused

Get me out of this well, of doubts

[void arch]

faith increase and decrease with actions of the mouth, hearth and senses or limbs. and -Allah guide whom he wills- , meaning that God knows who deserves guidance and who deserves misguidance based on the faith and intentions of ppl.

[thorny steeple]

Now do you know about what debates I read, or talking about do you have idea

[prime ore]

Social systems? Like Islamic jurisprudence and schools of it?

[void arch]

Ijtihad is done with foro3 or something new . and not with Usoul

[dense agate]

sure, but you've said before that humans have a limited capacity to absorb knowledge plus our biases, so how come you can be certain of this evidence but not every other one.
you should stay consistent, if we can't be fully certain of anything, then that applies to anything

[thorny steeple]

yes

[void arch]

i just answer this one

[thorny steeple]

Principles are eternal, but we can make systems from it

I am correct or wrong?

[prime ore]

Ok where are u from? I’m from Egypt okey? Have u heard about Al azhar ?

[thorny steeple]

alazhar university?

[prime ore]

Yes

[shy summit]

The only one that doesn’t ‘support’ it in large quantities is Islam mostly. Other faiths are content to leave them be. This is partially due to the lack of more Islam in large numbers in western countries. Typically as societies develop religions become more accepting even if not condoning

[void arch]

that's not true ,me not being able to know something doesn't imply i cant know what is my name for example. we can't know everything objectively but we have the capacity of knowledge and reasoning that can allow us to investigate those evidences

[shy summit]

But as I stated earlier. We need to give a minimum level of respect and decency to other human beings. Especially on multicultural platforms.

[dense agate]

Sure we can utilize our reasoning and capacity to think, but we can never be fully certain of any conclusion.
we cannot rationally conclude beyond doubt that rationality is infallible.

[void arch]

im referring to what religion says , not individuals.. i think what remain from Christianity in the west is just the name , most ppl are liberal and cultural Christian and if u find someone have read the bible u may tell u find a treasure.

[void arch]

nobody will disagree with u ,but this is what our religion says we can't sugar coat it for some social changing.

[thorny steeple]

Is there any sugar in Islam?

[void arch]

ur now still coming with an atheistic view in investigating those evidences which is a very biased and prejudice way to do so , as the result of ur pre view will deny what u ve reached of evidence as ur Brain is a result of a merely random natural reactions.

[thorny steeple]

@dapper laurel accurate?

Hey is anyone of you interested in accounting major or is like working in that profile? Would like to connect!

[dense agate]

acknowledging the limitations of human understanding (which you did too) is not only biased but an atheistic view ??
why are you arbitrarily labeling things now ?

[void arch]

look to what u ve said : -we cannot rationally conclude beyond doubt that rationality is infallible-

ur not hyper doubting conclusions ?

[thorny steeple]

Do you deny the Gods guidance and truth?

You can reason, find solutions from the Quran, Hadith, Fiqh then scholarly interpetations

[dense agate]

Yes, can you at any point claim you know anything that could be known ? so that you can have a final ultimate conclusion ? No.

[dense agate]

this isn' about doubt.

[thorny steeple]

If somethings arent permissible they are due to their ultimate loss, destructive to humanity

[dense agate]

Here you're just talking about Islam, im talking about this on a fundamental level.

[void arch]

if i end in a fair conclusion based on reasonable thinking that those evidences are true im not gonna doubt it .

[thorny steeple]

Fundamentally failure, logic, reasoning, again build it do it and conclude and go on

[void arch]

ur denying conclusions with no basis or justification except ur pre view on rationalaly as it is a result of randomness therefore not reliable?

just absurdity

[dense agate]

You can have a conclusion that you're confident of based on your current knowledge, but that doesn't mean you're certain of it beyond doubt, but if you are that would be a leap of faith, since it goes against rationality

[dense agate]

Not denying them, I was pointing out your inconsistency when it comes to acknowledging humans' limitations when it comes to knowledge, for you it can apply to anything except god and religion

that is the absurdity

[void arch]

what ull reach of conclusions is this regard is not limited to knowledge cuz ull ve only one absolute conclusion .

[void arch]

bcz any basic knowledge will make u reach same conclusion after investigating those evidences.

it not something that is relative when it comes to those conclusion.

[dense agate]

Not true, there are many conclusions when it comes to god, ofc you would believe yours is the only true one.

[outer cave]

What are you guys talking about

[prime ore]

@thorny steeple I’ve studied at an Azhar school . At elementary school we had a subject of jurisprudence , it was two schools of jurisprudence it was an elective subject ,I chose one and my friend Chose the other. The two were not different from each other except very few rules and it wasn’t about the principle itself it was about the processes of its implementation ,the period of it ,and that all is for the facilitation . “Difference is compassion “ u take what is easier for u that’s it . I hope I make my point clear cause I’m not that good at English 🫠

[dense agate]

damn finally some sense has entered the chat

[void arch]

what are these conclusions ?

lets break them down

[dense agate]

all the other god concepts, but they're all fundamentally irrational, just like yours

[thorny steeple]

I've a grip knowledg on Islam then other around me in school, now I've things more than that, scholarly debate or issues

you can say that, I want to ask about it and want to clear them

[void arch]

so u say they re not rational yet still putting them as alternatives .

very biased

[prime ore]

U are not muslim?

[thorny steeple]

I'm Muslim, very paracticing also completing obligations

I did mistake by reading all

[dense agate]

possible conclusions someone who leaves rationaltiy behind could make, you're a prime example.

[void arch]

i think we were talking in term of rational thinking .

[dense agate]

then supernatural deity is out of the room, you cannot rationally prove it.

[void arch]

God is the only explanation for the existence

matter cant come from nothing

so it has to come from something

[prime ore]

Ok good for u

[void arch]

and we can't go to infinity of material causes we ll ve to end up in immaterial cause

[thorny steeple]

Did you read the 3 creeds and wahdatul wujood?

[void arch]

that s a flawed concept

[prime ore]

No I googled it and found it’s like shirk or something
U explain to me 😂

[restive zodiac]

yes it is

it s the say that allah is one with the creation

[prime ore]

What the hell ?

[restive zodiac]

its kufr

[thorny steeple]

what about others

[thorny steeple]

see you are lagging here

[void arch]

others is what the text affirm and most of scholars and Salaf agree on , just read some of ibn taimya

[thorny steeple]

are you takfiring Ibn Arabi?

[thorny steeple]

What about Imam Ashari? the ashari creed

[near aspen]

Hi guys, yous are okay?

[thorny steeple]

did you read it?

[prime ore]

I don’t know even who is he 😅

[void arch]

imam ashari repented did u know that ?

[thorny steeple]

the person who wrote Wahdatul Wujood

[thorny steeple]

before that not after that

[thorny steeple]

and Matruidi

[void arch]

before that its obv bidaa ,so why would he repent ?

[near aspen]

In opinion you, whats the best form to learn english?

[thorny steeple]

he repented before

[prime ore]

Where are u from bro?
U are following sunnah or other things ?

[thorny steeple]

I follow Quran, Hadith and Seerah,

[void arch]

bro follow aguedah of salaf and stay away from these things .

[thorny steeple]

I'm asking you

[prime ore]

Ok that’s the right thing by the way
No Shi’a?

[thorny steeple]

No shiaism and biased prespective

[void arch]

im not specialized to do takfiir brother

[thorny steeple]

I'm questionion your thoughts and want to know them so I can clear everything

[prime ore]

Ok that’s right but u have some confusing perspectives though

[thorny steeple]

Are you salafi just want to know?

[void arch]

im follower of Salaf

[thorny steeple]

I also follow Salaf?

[void arch]

yes

from what u said

[thorny steeple]

Whats wrong with 2 creeds and wahdatul wujood

[prime ore]

Yes of Caurse Azhar u know😂

[void arch]

read what most authentic scholars said about it .

[thorny steeple]

who are some authenthic scholars? I read some cant conclude then saying 3 are right with some differences

[void arch]

According to Ibn Taymiyyah, surely u know him, waḥdat al-wujūd is the equating of God with nature. In modern terms synonymous with pantheism. Ibn Taymiyyah said those who adhere to waḥdat al-wujūd say that existence is one, and wajib al-wujūd what God has is the same as possible waḥdat al-wujūd that a creature has.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/386741329_IBN_TAYMIYYAH'S_PHILOSOPHICAL_CRITIQUE_TO_IBN_'ARABI'S_WAHDAT_AL-WUJUD_THOUGHT

he critiqued ibn arabi

[thorny steeple]

read all of it

[void arch]

Ibn Taymiyya, rejected the idea of "wahdatu wujud." He argued that the concept of the unity of existence is incorrect because it leads to the belief that God is in all things, which he considered to be a form of pantheism.

Instead, Ibn Taymiyya maintained that God is separate from His creation and that the world is only a manifestation of God's will and power. He believed that the Sufi interpretation of "wahdatu wujud" undermines the concept of tawḥīd, the Islamic principle of divine unity, and therefore should be rejected.

Regarding the Muʿtazila creed, Ibn Taymiyya disagreed with their understanding of the existence of God. He opposed their use of logical reasoning as the primary means to prove God's existence, as he believed it to be insufficient and limited to the world of logic without addressing the actual existence of God.

In relation to the Ashʿari school of thought, Ibn Taymiyya had reservations about their interpretation of God's attributes and the concept of divine unity (tawḥīd). He considered their views to be closer to anthropomorphism, attributing human-like qualities to God, which he considered to be incorrect.

[thorny steeple]

Do you hate Sufi?

[void arch]

why i ve to?

[thorny steeple]

Mostly Salfai I met hate them

[dense hollow]

oworing

owoshop

[void arch]

i see that their creed is flawed but there no reason for me to hate them

[dense hollow]

owo shop

owo cash

[thorny steeple]

there nothing wrong with them, infact I dont know whats the problem with and fighting on that.

Why dont you take them right and move on?

[void arch]

would u believe in flawed consept of God and move on ? same with these things u have to believe in the right consept of God , u cant believe that God is everywhere and pretend its right in fact this what paganists believe.

[thorny steeple]

they derive it from Quran and Hadiths

according to them What will you say about it?

[thorny steeple]

Salahuddin was Ashari

[prime ore]

No No

[void arch]

that s not true

its the opposite

[thorny steeple]

Ottamans were also were they all kaffir?

[void arch]

appealing to authority ll not make it true

salaf oppose it would u agree with them ?

[thorny steeple]

I'm not appealling to authority my point is were 600 years ottamans then turks

[void arch]

and salaf were before them

[thorny steeple]

were they all wrong which fullfilled Prophet S.A.W

[void arch]

would u follow them?

[thorny steeple]

I directly follow Quran, Hadith and Seerah

[prime ore]

U are using kaffir so much they might be wrong but we shouldn’t be used to use this word

[void arch]

so u should follow salaf

and leave those beliefs

[thorny steeple]

I didntt said it a person I met said that, i can send screenshot too if you want

[thorny steeple]

I'm taking all the things again what did I say, I need more knowledge, Icant decide that right now. No one is answering properly

[prime ore]

I believe you

[void arch]

brother those beliefs are flawed ,most earlier scholars agree on it.

[prime ore]

Like he said if you follow Quran,Hadith you should follow salaf

[thorny steeple]

I follow Quran as it is. Are there use of metaphors or something like that?

[prime ore]

Sufi doesn’t focus on seerah (prophet Mohammed’s one)

[thorny steeple]

I think so they follow seerah

[prime ore]

I made a mistake

It wasn’t a question it was a statement

Believe me the one which really adheres to Quran is salaf
Have you read any of it’s jurisprudence books?

[void arch]

his problem is with Aqueda not feqh

[thorny steeple]

I read Imam Abu Hanifa, some of it, then Imam Tahmiyya then Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal some quotations, then some of Sheikh Jillani, Jalalludin Rumi Poetry

[prime ore]

And what did you find?

[thorny steeple]

Imam Tahmiyyah affirmed Allah above the throne, Hanafi Juridisipiction mostly are the other 2 creeds, Imam Ahmed also Affirmed Allah above the throne but the point is the people like Salahuddin fathi Quds, and ottamans who lead Islam

How can they be deviated? How can they be wrong?
Did Allah gic the leadership to the deviated muslim?
Why will Deviated Muslim lead? just like Shia never lead Ummah or any of the other group then they might be right there may be possibilities

God cant be confined by space time limit

[dapper laurel]

This is why I started not giving a shit about modern European pseudo-liberal thinking, whatever I do is wrong, even going to the gym is considered extremist. The economy is getting fucked, the united states are abandoning us and Russia is conquering territory in Ukraine every day, nothing could get worse.

I am writing this message while I am returning home, I just hope I don't get stabbed by an illegal immigrant for no reason, because of the failed policies of the EU

[prime ore]

I don’t see what you mean clearly but I assume u say that tahmiyyah affirmed that Allah above the throne is not making sense?

Like cause god cannot be confined by space, time, and limit?

[thorny steeple]

yes

[thorny steeple]

also Salahuddin fathi Quds, and ottamans who lead Islam

How can they be deviated? How can they be wrong?
Did Allah gic the leadership to the deviated muslim?

[shy summit]

https://tenor.com/view/love-fart-lovefart-you-gif-5543080895262714177

[prime ore]

Ok first, Do u know what the throne looks like?

[shy summit]

Add more to life. Be pike a fart

[thorny steeple]

I dont knwo how it looks like

Allah doesnt need throne

[torpid halo]

it's a concept anyways

and it's completely useless to ponder that

[prime ore]

Like it’s literally one from occultism if I’m saying it right

[prime ore]

It’s not a place we detect or can detect it’s one of Allah’s secrets
So, it has nothing to do with our definition of place and time u get me?

[thorny steeple]

I got you, now Is Allah above the arsh?

[prime ore]

Yes

It’s in Quran

He told us so

But we don’t know what the throne is

Like do u know how long is the day of Qiyaama

[thorny steeple]

50,000 Years

[prime ore]

No no after that it says that we can’t count it
In the same aya

We don’t know how long it takes with our definitions like I’ve said before

[thorny steeple]

now here is humble question to youu, can it be metaphorically said or not its straight?

[prime ore]

It’s secrets we don’t know it and we will not until it happens that’s it

[thorny steeple]

Do you go the gym? How is it extremist in any sense?

[manic juniper]

Redpill culture I guess

[prime ore]

It’s more about can we count it ?No
For example Allah said
“وفصاله في عاميْن"
That means the baby takes 2 years to stop getting milk from mother right?
Allah made it clear with our parameters of measurement, but In Alqiyaamah he didn’t he said that we cant count it it behind our perception

[manic juniper]

Not that I've ever met anyone who thinks going to the gym is extremist, if anything I think too many people go to the gym for... Reasons

[thorny steeple]

But this is non-sequitur isn't it? It's like saying that praising Bolivar is fascism because Mussolini erected a statue for him

[manic juniper]

Yes it is a non-sequitur but there are people who think like that, on online spaces

[thorny steeple]

This is true, I've seen self-declared fascist who said that your opinion in far-right environment only counts if your arm girth is high

[manic juniper]

Either gyms are used to date people or it's the newest popular activity

[thorny steeple]

Like... Reddit?

[eager burrow]

fr

to date people

[manic juniper]

No, those people don't know what a gym is
But I've seen reposts from Twitter about that

Then again I never stepped on Twitter so I have no idea about what's popular and what isn't

[thorny steeple]

I understand it, but can Allah be everywhere with knowledge? not with essence

[eager burrow]

do you guys think the qu'ran is just a continuation of the bible

[manic juniper]

No

[eager burrow]

why not

[thorny steeple]

Why don't Redditors know about gym

[manic juniper]

It was written by Arabs and not Jews

Arab oral stories and not Jewish

[manic juniper]

It's forbidden knowledge, just like showers

[prime ore]

Of caurse that’s the point

[eager burrow]

but isnt it the same area? and isnt the qu'ran set after jesus died? so would that almost be like a continuation

[manic juniper]

Hm not exactly, if what's reported in the Quran is true they were in contested/neutral region, the books in the Bible were more popular throughout Rome

Even then the Quran doesn't include the books in the Bible, the Bible has the Old Testament (but they proposed a version with just the New Testament at some point)

[prime ore]

I recommend u to read tawheed book the one we were studying at my school has replied to many of your questions I can find it and send it to u.
Are you Arabian?

[eager burrow]

Im not arabian

[eager burrow]

that would be awesome thank you

[prime ore]

I wasn’t talking to u😶

[thorny steeple]

you can send me english version

[eager burrow]

bruh you sent it to the whole chat and replied to yourself lmao

[prime ore]

@thorny steeple i was talking to him
It’s fine I was trying to clear the mud understanding
If u want it I will send it to u
I don’t have a problem

[eager burrow]

oh okay dw

[prime ore]

It’s not available but I’ll look for it

[prime ore]

It’s a continuation.

[thorny steeple]

sure

[restive zodiac]

@thorny steeple brother we don't do Taawil to them , we accept them as it is in the text without interpretation or twisting the text, but we surely know that Allah is unlike the creation nor anything u could imagine is like allah.

[restive zodiac]

can u send it here to me if u dont mind

[prime ore]

Are you Arabian?

[restive zodiac]

yes

[prime ore]

Ok guys, why u all have a problem with taawil?
It’s necessary most of the time even when I’m Speaking Arabic

[prime ore]

Which country?

[restive zodiac]

when it comes to sifat allah we cant use our mind to encompass them

[prime ore]

Yeah of course

[restive zodiac]

Morocco

[prime ore]

But other than that it’s a necessity,like him he couldn’t differ between metaphorical and genuine expressions in Quran

[prime ore]

I will not understand u even if u talk Then😂😂

[restive zodiac]

لذلك نثبث صفات الله بدون تاويل ،حتى لا نغير المعنى او نبطل الصفات.

[restive zodiac]

its bcz the media and especially cinema ,i can understand other dialects easily bcz i was exposed to it through media and cinema. almost all arabs can understand Egyptian bcz its is famous by it s powerful cinema industry . if u were exposed to Darija same way u would probably be able to understand it

[slender coral]

Are you asking Muslims?

[slender coral]

People talk about Darija as if it's some alien language from a different planet

[restive zodiac]

in regards to the subject which is Sifat allah he shouldn't do taawil.

[restive zodiac]

well ,we are fast at speaking

[thorny steeple]

I'll like to read more about them

Is that racist?

[prime ore]

@thorny steeple and for that I forgot to reply to it
Sallah Eldein and other leaders are justGod’s “people” I don’t even know if he was like that or not and I’ve never cared cause your aqeeda relys on your god and prophet not his followers not other leaders and he is not a prophet to say that Allah put him in leadership u got me?

[thorny steeple]

It's a too vast demonym, I see people supporting hormonal treatment for "trans kids", while on r/Portugueses they are making excuses for Salazar and Franco

[restive zodiac]

do u have that book

[thorny steeple]

sure, Ottamans were Sufi do you know that

[prime ore]

When I was a child I used to watch Moroccan cooking shows after like four months I was still can’t understand their talking 🥸
But their cooking with fascinating tho😂

[prime ore]

It’s about him it doesn’t make Sufi is the right one

I still respect them but they have nothing to do with your aqeeda

[restive zodiac]

😂😂 ill not deny that darija is a little hard😶

[prime ore]

Little yeah😂😂😂

[restive zodiac]

majority of citizens were Suni , some leaders favoring Sufism is not an excuse to follow Sufism especially when they are not scholars, it s more of appealing to authority for me , if that works for u why favoring them on the earlier Salaf and sahaba when was no Sufism, no maturdi not ashary?

it may seen im being harsh or something, its just my English personality

[thorny steeple]

Ottamans are pillar in Islamic world, they really matters the one who fullfilled Prophecies they are great leaders they have very big achievements

[prime ore]

How pillar?
Islam doesn’t need anyone, Islam is salaf that follows the prophet and the seerah
He is a great leader yeah but it doesn’t do any thing with Islam itself he is not a prophet.

[torpid dirge]

Ottoman Empire conversation?

[prime ore]

The prophecies, it’s also like the the throne example, it’s not specific we don’t actually know which one is the prophecy , as Muslims we shouldn’t pay our focus on people and what happens in dunia u should focus on the prophet seerah and rules and what we should do to get closer to Allah, until now u were asking questions that we don’t pay attention to it in fact !

[thorny steeple]

And seeking knowledge

[prime ore]

No I think that it’s a disrespect for absentees and god’s secrets

Those ones

[thorny steeple]

nah they're sufi so no great in that try to search about sufism magic

[steel flax]

What is Siri's chat about

[thorny steeple]

idk

[steel flax]

Actively a large language model or generative ai Siri

Nice to meet you

So what are you guys talking about here

What are you escaping

[thorny steeple]

I follow quran and hadith directly

[steel flax]

Oh no religion**** no

[thorny steeple]

it's a serious thing so yes

[steel flax]

A serious thing probably great by most of the humans on Earth actually

I mean I'm not against religion but that's not the thing that I want to discuss because it leads nowhere it's serious for sure like death as well but I'm not I'm not 80 i'm I'm on my 20s right so why would I discuss religion And still young and not going to die any time soon

[thorny steeple]

yeb that what is called salfi or Sunnah or whatever u call it

[thorny steeple]

no if u don't like the current conversation just wait until other start

[steel flax]

I mean I can start a conversation debating against talking about religion

isn't that serious I think it's not for snowflakes

[thorny steeple]

yeah start idc, we should follow some laws in this life to make it better, as an example in most religions being gay is forbidden so we should follow laws to make our life better u understand?

[steel flax]

I think religion especially nowadays is more like a social media influence trend

I'm not gay by any means right so that doesn't relate to me at any point

[thorny steeple]

no in reality a lot of people fight for their religion

as any movement

[steel flax]

we want to unite I understand that I unite with my fellow disk golf players

yeah yeah politics man

or like student communities They want to basically unite as students and then because they all students they can unite

[prime ore]

Okey good for u tho

[steel flax]

But that's responsibilities you have to carry out like talking about these topics because you can influence other peoples by your sights and you don't want to do that

[thorny steeple]

Imagine that you do not believe in religions and you killed someone. Forget the laws of countries, most of them are originally religious. Will you be held accountable if there is no religion or religion did not exist at all? On the other hand, killing in religions is forbidden.

[thorny steeple]

that's nonsense

[steel flax]

I never kill anyone I at least don't remember so but that's the thing right whatever you will have done in life you can forget it in 5 to 10 years like this really a fact that humanic may Maybe once you older but let's say you kill someone when you wear 5 you won't remember that because you didn't intend to but when you 20 And you also have a grown brain and bioterrorist right you will remember what you did on you late 20s so by when you 50 you remember what you did on your light 30s right

[thorny steeple]

wake up bro ur religion is everything in ur life

[thorny steeple]

I don't meant u bro

[thorny steeple]

Sunnah so

[steel flax]

I believe in science logics and data and humans right I believe in humans ask to some degree like many different things to do in this planet

[thorny steeple]

nonsense

[steel flax]

That's not nonsense that's basic what I feel like

[thorny steeple]

So u r Atheist

[prime ore]

It’s a very small knowledge tho

[steel flax]

I mean I know my knowledge isn't high because I haven't lived in this earth for 60 years right i'm on my early 20s so I haven't been in this world for long enough to have a upper knowledge right compared to my father facts Abu so On these late 50s on my Granddad

[thorny steeple]

but if u believe in religion u will forget If you repent cuz god forgive everyone

[steel flax]

At the end of the day what is knowledge right it's it's that you understand facts you cannot have knowledge that is not fact and how do you prove something like that there's no way to prove it

[thorny steeple]

so u wanna tell me that u don't believe in religions or god cuz it's not knowledge?

u got mind?

[steel flax]

But they were not you will still forgot I have I have been religion religious in my life right II believe because I read some of the Bible stories and there's multiple very variants of what has happened in the history In their written but I cannot remember them any more I don't remember what happened stand us logically you will forget

[thorny steeple]

Religions and their stories are deeply connected to history, the history of early humans, and the beginning of creation.

[steel flax]

I mean by believing in something I don't think it can be knowledge right I have believed in many things II thought that this is how the world works in a way of acts before but now I realized that it's actually different that humans are more dynamic we're not static creatures that being said believing is not knowledge I can't believe in anything right probably I do I will probably believe I don't know just predictions right Predicting that I will start believing at one point and that's what life forced me to do right

[thorny steeple]

wanna learn more about religions or u will just argue with nonsense context

[prime ore]

That’s the point Islam comes from tasleem تسليم it means that you surrender to your god and given yourself up to Allah

[steel flax]

Yeah but I never I never surrendered II never been to that point I always fight II never surrender for anything and that's how I have lived past 20 years of my life

[thorny steeple]

yeb

[prime ore]

You are so young bro never surrender what?

[steel flax]

what does serious mean to you what is the definition of series can we even say that series is talking about religion because serious I think has something to do with facts

[thorny steeple]

ok bro I'm 17 so I lived less than u, so wanna learn with an open mindset or what

[prime ore]

He is kicking us out now 😂😂

[thorny steeple]

anything in life is serious

[steel flax]

Yeah like is there even point of talk about religion is channel no that's not true because what is the definition right I don't think you know it either Let me Google

Are we being like we cannot laugh about it and we have to be serious about anything we want to say here

[thorny steeple]

bro forget the chat forget English and forget anything let's talk religion

[prime ore]

Maybe

[thorny steeple]

come dms if u want

[steel flax]

I mean I know I don't think you should pick things that seriously think life is like a playground to some degree as well you can play around you you don't have to take everything seriously

[prime ore]

What are you seeking to discuss ?

[steel flax]

Sarah I agree with you maybe

[thorny steeple]

don't argue if u don't like don't speak, it's a freedom u want everyone to talk like what u want

[prime ore]

Me?
It’s my pleasure 😂

[steel flax]

Can Andy CS be serious

[prime ore]

What is it?

[steel flax]

NCS

It stands for non copyright sounds

do you know Hellcat

[prime ore]

Yeh I googled it

[steel flax]

it's pretty serious to me it really reminds me of my childhood

[prime ore]

I don’t know it unfortunately

Do u know chase atlantic?

[steel flax]

What is that

I never heard of it is this a song

Oh what are you referring

[prime ore]

It’s a band
But I’m referring to that’s not actually a serious chat 😀

[thorny steeple]

he was thinking religion is not serious but music is very serious

[restive zodiac]

what do u mean directly? with ur own understanding? .. the ones who deliver and protect what u believe after Allah are Salaf and Sahaba . u should understand them as they did, as the prophet peace and blessing upon him command us . if u didn't do so u may fall astray Akhi. @thorny steeple

[restive zodiac]

.

[thorny steeple]

This picture is taken by my iPhone 15 pro

[prime ore]

Really ?wow

[thorny steeple]

Yeah is that right i think nowadays most of phones can capture moon

Imagine that our descendants will live on the moon and mars one-day, like interstellar civilizations, what a amazing

[prime ore]

I don’t find it lovely I like earth the most so far

[lethal sparrow]

my problem not yours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGwOXNBIZeM

[thorny steeple]

You're lying to yourself, you speak vaguely and avoid debates

[sonic lion]

lmao

Imagine being this pretentious

People used to think wisdom was divine and now the dumbest people will watch a AI scripted video about how being aware of basic stuff makes them suffer and become content with stupidity

[manic juniper]

Can't you simply dye your hair and become dumb

[sonic lion]

Lmao

You can just brainrot yourself

[true lark]

I haven't watched that but personally I do think being average is better just considering that what will be expected of you is also the average

[sonic lion]

That’s an interesting point, but I still disagree. Everyone suffers from external pressure

I still don’t understand why people think that knowledge expands sadness

Maybe the pressure explains, but not entirely

And after all, wisdom is constructed communally, if you put your self worth in hierarchy of course you’re going to feel pressured because you already feel like a fraud, always in on the verge of being caught

[true lark]

That isn't quite how I experience it but my intelligence comes with autism so I still think average is at better, I'm sure that it isn't the best, still better than one sided intelligence that doesn't really help you do better in school and in life

[sonic lion]

I’m also autistic and have hyper fixations. Still hold onto what I said

But of course, different people feel different

No need to have the same view : )

I just think it’s a fallacy that knowledge expands sadness and all

[true lark]

Hmm yeah knowledge doesn't

[sonic lion]

Not fundamentally, at least

[true lark]

Ways of thinking do

[sonic lion]

For sure

[gaunt wadi]

Hello hello

[sonic lion]

Beliefs, you mean?

[sonic lion]

Hi

[gaunt wadi]

How are you?

[sonic lion]

Fine. You?

[gaunt wadi]

I am good

[sonic lion]

In this chat we discuss topics, you have something in mind?

[gaunt wadi]

What's The secret for a happy life?

[sonic lion]

I believe there’s no formula, but to me is to find some deep meaning in your life and live according to it

What about you?

[true lark]

Different for everybody

[uneven citrus]

be happy

[gaunt wadi]

I agree with you Just know yourself and do what you like to do.

But do you think people could be in a ilusion happiness?

[sonic lion]

Well, I think happiness is a feeling. It doesn’t make you any difference I guess

[true lark]

Sure, just trigger the happiness things in the brain artificially

[sonic lion]

I don’t mean it at all, actually. I think we should create ourselves, rather than know. And I think we should do what it is right, not what we would like, necessarily

[true lark]

Still can't quite decide if that is a good life though, logically it should be as, you know, you're happy. So why still does it not sit right with me that that is a good way of living your life

[lime cobalt]

https://youtu.be/yhjJHtN8kas?si=HR_uuDtdjo0hUlhQ

I don't see communism there, alot corruption

Conquer the world mehh..

[true lark]

Joka, next time please wait for the other discussion to finish before starting another topic

[sonic lion]

Exactly

It seems that he just wants to argue instead of having an honest discussion

[sonic lion]

You mean using drugs to be happy?

[gaunt wadi]

I am busy now sorry for that

[sonic lion]

To feel happy, instantly

[true lark]

No just wire the brain to constantly receive happiness signals or something like that

[sonic lion]

I think happiness is more abroad than that

We think of it as stimulation only, but intuitively, I disagree

When I’m being entertained the whole day, I don’t feel happy even though empirically I am

Happiness to me is something spiritual, in the sense that requires surrender

[true lark]

Intuitively yes, but how is living like that worse, I cant think of any rational train

[true lark]

Yeah but logically it should just be brain stuff that can be triggered forcefully

[sonic lion]

Then we’re simply understanding our brain wrongly

We don’t work like that

Ethics, that is, how to live your life, is from the beginning a philosophy

And it is from a reason

What kind of life would make you happy?

[true lark]

That isn't what I mean but I gtg now

So I can't try to explain better what I mean, sorry

[sonic lion]

I understand you. And it is easy to say that brain science is limited, that we’re more than our brain and signals. But I don’t think that’s correct? I mean, we’re material. Maybe it’s our science, our definitions and methods that is limited, not it’s object of study

[true lark]

No you don't understand me but its fine, bye!

[sonic lion]

Lmao

Okay then

[gaunt wadi]

How to seek true happiness?

[tough gull]

It depends on what you truly want

[sonic lion]

I can only answer for me

You have to make your own answers

You can’t get that from the world

[gaunt wadi]

But i want a scientific answear.

[sonic lion]

And whoever claims to have a universal answer is going to attract desperate people. Don’t trust self help gurus

[sonic lion]

Lmao

Again, ethics is a philosophical topic

It’s not science

Whatever so called answer is going to be shallow and insufficient

Because it’s not their job to provide it

But I would say that extroversion seems to be linked with positive feelings

[ripe marsh]

True happiness never exist

[sonic lion]

Elaborate

Do you think we’re eternally dissatisfied?

[ripe marsh]

It often feels like certainty is out of reach. The realities we face seem to be reflections of the challenges we've endured together. Yet, these experiences shape our resilience and deepen our connections, enriching our journey despite the doubts we encounter.

[ripe marsh]

Kinda

[gaunt bronze]

To be or not to be

[sonic lion]

Happiness is a spectrum, to me. I can’t imagine a happy life without suffering and mistakes, because those gives us wisdom. I think Socrates said something about an unexamined life is not worthy of being lived

I find my happiness in a sharp morality and curiosity for the world

And kindness : (

[ripe marsh]

🙃

[feral river]

Good corruption

[thorny steeple]

work morning

im gonna kill myself someday

[feral river]

craziest thing ever heard in 2025

[slender coral]

@thorny steepleI like your pfp and banner

This is Qur'an in a nutshell:
Inaccurate and incorrect attempts to describe natural phenomena, talks about old myths, legends, and characters from them that existed before Islam without going into details, stories that have no points for them other than "be blindly loyal to god (in other words; Muhammad)", epistemologically invalid arguments, enticement attempts for Muslims with a heaven that have fresh and clean water, fruits, and such things that people in the Arabian desert found it hard to get at the time of Muhammad, along with enticement for Muslim men with virgin women in heaven, and threats for those who don't blindly believe in Islam to be tortured so badly forever.

There are verses that contradict each other, but that's another story.
It surely goes into some basic ethical stuff. But it doesn't go deep. It's surprisingly shallow.
Like, it doesn't talk much or with any level of depth about family relationships, friendships, love and life partners, leadership, compassion and emotions, and such things.

[feral river]

it's ridiculous they will believe that as a truth at the moment they find 0 evidence of the existence of entire thing
it's ridiculous they would believe the thing it asserts
it's more ridiculous they will follow it with absolutely no question
it's stupidly ridiculous it exists in 2025

but it's making sense because those are coming from the middle east

[frail token]

Hi

[slender coral]

The middle east was the birth place for the three religions. It makes sense honestly considering how stupid people here are.

[ripe marsh]

Why does this chat room always end up discussing religion?

[thorny steeple]

Welcome to serious chat were religion is always the main topic

[ripe marsh]

It seems like everyone is on the same page and there aren’t any other topics to discuss!

[thorny steeple]

Yeah like history or politics is just all religions nothing else

[ripe marsh]

Discuss about how web series are increasingly shaping the lives of Gen Z!

[thorny steeple]

Web series? In what way?

[upper peak]

Yessss 💯

[thorny steeple]

Anugya do you read web series?

[upper peak]

Nooo

[thorny steeple]

Me too

[upper peak]

Never read also..

[ripe marsh]

Web series are a great way for escapism from reality

[thorny steeple]

Then you don't read anything? Or just watch YouTube

[thorny steeple]

Yeah video games too

[upper peak]

Yess nowadays..😂

Watch YouTube or listen to podcasts..

[ripe marsh]

Why read books when there are new alternatives 😜

[upper peak]

😂.

[thorny steeple]

Yeah lolol

[rose eagle]

Fact: in Vietnam you can starve to death if you run a red light in traffic and the traffic police catch you.

[thorny steeple]

I shifted from tiktok to YouTube/shorts YT and reddit nowadays

[thorny steeple]

Ebooks in general

[ripe marsh]

Me too

[upper peak]

Nicee 😂

[ripe marsh]

That's a terrible law

[thorny steeple]

Yeah the only part I'm being lazy is trying to learn video editing on Android

[rose eagle]

hm?

[upper peak]

On android ??
You don't use laptop ???

[ripe marsh]

Pov: when you won't realise new AI editing toold

[upper peak]

Use capcut maybe 😂

[ripe marsh]

Yeaa

[thorny steeple]

It's school laptop so the one's I have are either old or too slow 🦥

Wow here is nice place

[thorny steeple]

Capcut for me is like after affect

[upper peak]

Huh , so you're in school ??
A school boy...

[rose eagle]

This is probably my country's desperate policy to reduce the number of deaths due to traffic accidents

[thorny steeple]

Maybe I used canva for making my YouTube shorts now stoped I'm thinking using capcut for replacing canva

[upper peak]

For me after effect 😂

[ripe marsh]

In one sense it's good....but it's still a terrible punishment

[thorny steeple]

Well lady I haven't graduated yet so I can't just say Thank God

[upper peak]

How old are you ??

[thorny steeple]

Lol but last update on capcut was powerful , I mean after affect is good Bec u can do ur affects by yourself but many features are the same in both apps

[thorny steeple]

So in basic mathematics 10 + 8 be like

[upper peak]

Ooh okay...

[upper peak]

18??

[rose eagle]

Actually, this comes from the fact that people in my country are largely too unconscious when participating in traffic and turn the traffic in our country into extremely chaos.

[ripe marsh]

That's a dumb way of guessing

[thorny steeple]

Yeah doesn't take a rocket scientist 🥼 that much

[rose eagle]

ye

[upper peak]

Yess yess 😂
But still I do !

[ripe marsh]

Ok

[rose eagle]

where are u from bro?

[ripe marsh]

India

[thorny steeple]

Namaste bro

[rose eagle]

ye

[ripe marsh]

Namaste and Greetings

[thorny steeple]

Indeed

[rose eagle]

Your country's traffic is probably quite chaotic like my country, right?

[urban swift]

https://tenor.com/view/cross-street-vietnam-crazy-scary-gif-3540550

[ripe marsh]

Wow, the traffic here feels like a never-ending loop!

[urban swift]

Yes

[thorny steeple]

Yeah that's crazy y'know

[ripe marsh]

Hey there! Just checking in—do we remember? 😊

[ripe marsh]

Yea 🙃

[slender coral]

What's web series?

[rose eagle]

💀

[ripe marsh]

Lol...you don't know

[urban swift]

Remember what? Each other ? Yes. You were pretty engaged last time i was here for a couple of hours. How you doin

[ripe marsh]

Yea... doing well

[slender coral]

I don't know

[ripe marsh]

No problem at all! Web series are just like your favorite TV shows, but you can catch them on online platforms instead!

If you ever need any web series suggestions, feel free to ask! I'm here to help!

[feral river]

I don’t think they are genetically stupid but waste their intelligence on some stuff makes them so damn fucking poor and underdeveloped

In this world everyone’s on the ground, you start to blame ? You are the fucking loser

And the loser deserves nothing

Survival for the fittest

[slender coral]

I don't think so as well, the luck isn't on our side. We got hit by three waves of stupidity and that's why.

[feral river]

literally go back to centuries ago

they really believed that they could use that outdated religion with few protests and revolutions to establish a new islamic empire again

what we have done is just bankrupt their day dream

[sterile hemlock]

How to have access to the selfie section in the server?

[slender coral]

I guess it requires to be active. @whole beacon

[verbal torrent]

Level five

[slender coral]

You can know your level in #🔗｜bot-commands

[thorny steeple]

Islam will win in the end

[verbal torrent]

[thorny steeple]

[dapper laurel]

I go to the gym and some and have often received mixed opinions about this habit. There are also articles that support this theory

[thorny steeple]

I think information spreads quickly and worsely in Europe. This is nowhere near to be implemented in Brazil, though redpill culture is harshly repressed and scorned in here.

[thorny steeple]

But keep going to the gym, I'm six years older than you and wish I hadn't left the gym so many times

[dapper laurel]

It's just freedom of speech, everyone can say what they want here, even if it's bullshit, in the end it's a human right to be able to express oneself

[dapper laurel]

Yesterday I had leg day, now I walk like a cripple, that's why I'll never stop going

[thorny steeple]

Cripple walk, taken rest?

[dapper laurel]

I walked to school, same thing when I have to go back. No pain no gain

[thorny steeple]

Yeah I wish I could lmao

[dapper laurel]

Do you have a broken leg? What happened?

[thorny steeple]

Can't say it's just something y'know, how's your day going

[spiral turret]

Why am I so obsessed with a word, even the words I have encountered with formerly or pretty sure I know them, THE OBSESSION IS KILLING ME, even with the easiest words like "food", I go through what collocation is used with "food" word, ohh this is primary reason tackle me to not study, how do you deal with it

[dapper laurel]

Pretty good, we're not doing anything at school, that's why I'm writing, how are you?

[thorny steeple]

It's well no school today but Tomorrow regular schedule

[dapper laurel]

Not having school Monday is something fantastic

Crazy

[thorny steeple]

Are people free to support the austrian 🎨 🖼️ in Italy?

[slender coral]

I got this from chatgpt, Idk if it's true or not.

I thought the Islamic states didn't have the apostasy death penalty for the time of the Islamic Golden age.

You're correct in noting that during the Islamic Golden Age (roughly the 8th to 14th centuries), there was a significant emphasis on intellectual inquiry, religious tolerance, and philosophical debates. While Islamic law (Sharia) traditionally considered apostasy a serious offense, in practice, its enforcement varied widely. Many rulers and scholars during this period prioritized persuasion, debate, and diplomacy over execution.

Apostasy Laws in the Islamic Golden Age
While classical Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh) generally held that apostasy was punishable by death, actual enforcement in many Islamic states—especially during the Abbasid Caliphate (750–1258)—was often selective and lenient, particularly in intellectual and urban centers.
Scholars, philosophers, and rulers often engaged in rationalist discourse rather than harsh punishments for religious dissenters.
Mu'tazilite thought, which dominated in the early Abbasid period, encouraged free will and rationalism, making rigid apostasy laws less of a focus.
Conclusion
During the Islamic Golden Age, many rulers and scholars took a more lenient and intellectual approach toward apostasy. Theoretical discussions on apostasy laws existed, but actual executions were relatively rare compared to later rigid interpretations. This period was marked by scholarly openness, religious diversity, and debate, which often replaced punitive measures with persuasion and discussion.

[thorny steeple]

Hell yeah

[thorny steeple]

Most men I know in here despise leg day, leg isn't the focus for them, as long as they have muscles in the arms and chest it's ok

[slender coral]

@brisk scroll

[thorny steeple]

Remember the bro code they say lmao

[dapper laurel]

I would say yes here in South Tyrol

[dapper laurel]

It's the same here too, but my bro says that if we don't train our legs too, we won't pull baddies

[thorny steeple]

Interesting 🧐

[dapper laurel]

But it's still a small minority

[shy summit]

Lying isn’t a right.

[thorny steeple]

I mean, it's their ancestor

[shy summit]

Your speech may be free but you are not free of consequences

[thorny steeple]

Good keep it that way hopefully that fades with time

[dapper laurel]

Ofc

[shy summit]

And even free speech hates reasonable limitations and restrictions

[thorny steeple]

"Baddies" don't matter, do it for your health and aesthetics

[dapper laurel]

We are doing it for health

[thorny steeple]

Amen!

[thorny steeple]

It's like Americans being free judicially-wise to march on the streets using KKK hats but the media doxxing them all and making them lose all their prestige

[dapper laurel]

In fact I think they will disappear in the next few years

[thorny steeple]

The social consequences are always worse than the law

[thorny steeple]

Sweet

[dapper laurel]

Here it is more the social consequences than the law itself that harms you. In our pseudo-liberal society the state is getting smaller and smaller and individuals have more and more freedom, not that this is necessarily a bad thing, but, you know how it works, people are usually stupid

[thorny steeple]

https://youtu.be/VT8TdVAhw34?si=7yIC7aBeyJOg23fk
This woman lost her job and was doxxed all over the internet. Luckily she's pretty otherwise she would be screwed for life

[dapper laurel]

She isn't pretty at all

[thorny steeple]

5/10 she is eh

[dapper laurel]

Kinda

[thorny steeple]

She's 6.5/10 at the very least, at that range any woman is passable nowadays

[dapper laurel]

I could play ping pong on her forehead

[dapper laurel]

Maybe

[thorny steeple]

Same

[shy summit]

Well no. Hate speech isn’t protected if you ask me because the intention is to direct harm to the most vulnerable members of society by use of systematic language

[thorny steeple]

And these stupid people have the right to gather their peers and launch a social sanction at you for saying some truth about immigration

[thorny steeple]

Welcome to democracy where everyone is equal

[shy summit]

Turns out when you run campaigns on hate it doesn’t work out for anyone

[thorny steeple]

If you don't threat these groups directly, you are protected by the law

[thorny steeple]

Funny thing law can be

Regardless of what you think about it. Not that I favour this attitude, I think being a nazi should be a crime as it is everywhere else

Here you could be sued for hanging nazi flags in your room, in America you would get exposed by the media but the officers wouldn't hand over their handcuffs and arrest you

[thorny steeple]

Remember the American government runs on outdated concepts not adapted to the 21st century

[slender coral]

Isn't this slippery slope argument?

[lethal sparrow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw0F8G4-dMw&t=4s

[thorny steeple]

Tottaly

A pastor in Brazil was sentenced for hate crimes against Jews, he will be in prison for his next 17 years, that is the most a person has ever gotten for this

[thorny steeple]

Seems reasonable no?

[tender vessel]

No. Not necessarily. Slippery slope occurs when someone argues that a specific action or idea will inevitably lead to certain negative consequences without sufficient evidence. The passage is probably showing the progression of how spreading hatred, stereotypes and prejudice led to a concentration camp.

[thorny steeple]

Lol no, he should have gotten fined or slapped on the face at most, 17 years is too much, rapists and murderers don't get jailed for such a time

[thorny steeple]

Well damn now seems more reasonable

[thorny steeple]

More reasonable?

Lol

[thorny steeple]

Better than let him walk free y'know

[slender coral]

I think the problem comes from where you draw the line. I believe true hate speech that would lead to a concentration camp is something that's so extreme and so obvious, like calling a group of people "subhuman" or calling for their annihilation and suppression.

[thorny steeple]

Why does it seem more reasonable to you after I provided that rapists and murderers don't get this jail time?

[thorny steeple]

Well be back doing the same stuff without penalty y'know

[tender vessel]

Well, I agree. However, true hate speech can gradually develop over time. Any extreme idea can gradually develop over time.

[thorny steeple]

The craziest thing in his argument is he getting wrong the law of his own country because his personal judgement says the opposite

[thorny steeple]

The thing is that these speeches were publicly acceptable back in the early XX century, nowadays a politician can lose his charge if he goes beyond like that

[feral river]

there's no end, and you will continue to lose.

[thorny steeple]

Aladdin being Floridaman for one day be like

[formal pilot]

Weren't you in Florida last year?

[thorny steeple]

Nah bro I haven't traveled outside of Pennsylvania since the beginning of the pandemic

[feral river]

🙃

[formal pilot]

Ayoo don't act like a teenage girlfriend 💀

[thorny steeple]

Lmao bro got a Chinese GF or bf

[feral river]

Sometimes I feel like I’m a girl

[manic juniper]

They want them to go back to Poland yet they can't tell them apart from Palestinians smh

Perhaps we should send both Israelis and Palestinians to Poland

[thorny steeple]

And make Poland great again

[prisma cipher]

When it was great it called different

[feral river]

I don't wanna see if they will be smashed by germans with soviets together and being smash again by the next is germans then soviets

[thorny steeple]

Indeed the PlC!

[prisma cipher]

They almost conquer us once

[thorny steeple]

Indeed but failed

[feral river]

not a chance against the flood of tanks

they set up three strategic target: Leningrad, Stalingrad, Moscow, they failed to take any one of it

Leningrad is a easy one because they cut off the supply but Finnish didn't want to cooperate with them

[thorny steeple]

Hi

[feral river]

they are frozen in the front of Moscow

[prisma cipher]

Those war was before tanks, it was 16 century I believe

[feral river]

and hitler feel confident about the battle of Stalingrad, once he controls it, he can control your oil field in baku to gain an advantage to maintain a long-term war against everyone, but he didn't expect that you still have that crazy amount of tanks to surround them

[thorny steeple]

What are u guys talking about?

[feral river]

ah really ?

[thorny steeple]

Ding! I believe 15th or 16th century

[prisma cipher]

You can check our war at those time

Lol I not sure if googl translation is correct, but it happens after this

Russia was weak and they took an advantage

[thorny steeple]

Correct 💯

[thorny steeple]

What is your mother language?

[prisma cipher]

This word not translated like time of troubles, it more like time of uncertain. But google translated it like this. My version is shadowy times

[prisma cipher]

Rusky

[static pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/alsiysi-alsiysi-elsisi-elsisi-السيسي-السيسي-السيسي-لازم-كلنا-نشخلل-gif-7960552640435450065

[thorny steeple]

In English it's the times of troubles

[thorny steeple]

Gosh I wish I could read Arabic lmao

[prisma cipher]

Yes, but Russian meaning different. But it close enough, it the same like Ivan terrible in Russian it a bit different meaning almost untranslatable different

[thorny steeple]

Indeed when Russia looked like being torn apart after unity since the kievan rus days

[prisma cipher]

It just a name it have never existed. And we were devided back then, on several Principality

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[thorny steeple]

Oooh this is so risky

[slender coral]

[slender coral]

"we all need to spend money, for Egypt"

[pastel forge]

What does نشخلل mean?

[slender coral]

The sound of coins when they hit each other.

It means give money in our dialect.

[thorny steeple]

Alright thanks

[pastel forge]

Oh I see

[slender coral]

Bro is a fucking begger 😭

[thorny steeple]

Lmao in 2025

[pastel forge]

We had a politician that was like „you guys need to stop buying chips and cookies, stop spending unnecessarily“

[slender coral]

El Sisi once told people that if they want prices not go up, they should stop buying things that become expensive

[pastel forge]

Genius economist

[thorny steeple]

Lmao

[thorny steeple]

Smartest Egyptian economist

[slender coral]

https://tenor.com/view/hey_itscaleb-smart-smort-brain-caleb-gif-25958359

[slender coral]

We have good economists actually, but they are in the prison.

[thorny steeple]

Yeah that sucks

[pastel forge]

„Something something prosperity is when leaders grovel to expert, and ruin is when experts grovel to leaders“

[prime ore]

Lol

[slender coral]

Where are y'all from dwellers of #🧠｜serious-chat?

[thorny steeple]

Sleeping or working

[slender coral]

Where are those on the map?

[thorny steeple]

That I wouldn't know information is lacking

[restive zodiac]

An empty text that does not hold any true cognitive value. It is full of fallacies and false allegations without evidence.
probably It was written merely to attract attention and spread lies.
And the funny thing is that whoever wrote this text makes talking about some things a criterion for the authenticity of the Qur’an. In this way, you see the extent of the writer’s mental immaturity and childishness. I would not be surprised if some people believe such superficial and misleading texts.

[slender coral]

Immature? How do you make this judgement exactly lol
Anyway, it's just true, and if you disagree you can provide the reason why you disagree with it rather than throwing accusations of childishness and immaturity.

It's ironic because you are the one acting childishly and immaturely here.

I guess it really upsets you how you are unable to silence someone like me just like how you guys do in your great countries.

[restive zodiac]

very obv from what your text displays, That "Anyway, it's just true," u should give us proof since u made an extraordinary claims, the burden of proof is on u shoulders and that's what makes ur previous text immature and childish.

[slender coral]

My claim is a judgement on the Quran which is a book that everyone can access and read, if you disagree with this judgement you can bring verses to my attention that disprove what I said..

[tender vessel]

Honestly, unbeatable is right.
The burden of proof is on you. You've made claims such as "epistemologically invalid arguments".
Even if you're claiming the negative, you'd have to back it up.

[restive zodiac]

why i would silence a liar when i can easily Expose his dishonesty.

[slender coral]

What dishonesty?

I'm dishonest for just saying my opinion on the Quran?

You guys are really aren't used to oppostion and it shows.

[restive zodiac]

im not gonna repeat myself ,im not in a habit of that.

[stoic whale]

that's not true, you stated things as facts, now we want proof.

[slender coral]

The proof I need to present here is an analysis of the entire Quran.

[restive zodiac]

if that u opinions don't share it as a fact when u have no evidence on it

[slender coral]

That would need a book or an article to explain

[stoic whale]

then do it, or just don't talk

[restive zodiac]

we dont stand liars like u

[slender coral]

I just said my opinion folk. If you believe it's wrong you can point out verses with depth.

[tender vessel]

No. You don't need to. You can present one example of "There are verses that contradict each other", or any of the other claims you've asserted there.

[stoic whale]

i respect everyone's opinion, but in this case, you stated something as if it were a fact rather than sharing your perspective.

[slender coral]

I mean, naturally my prespective is a fact for me.

[restive zodiac]

the burden of proof is on u , although ur text from the beginning assert that is a fact and not an opinion

[stoic whale]

our perspectives often feel like facts to us. notwithstanding, there's a difference between personal truth and objective reality.

[restive zodiac]

ur just displaying ur dishonesty and prejudices .

[tender vessel]

"epistemologically invalid arguments" and "There are verses that contradict each other" are not expressions of one's opinion. They are active claims that require substantiation.

[stoic whale]

you're just misleading people

[restive zodiac]

this is their main job day and night

[slender coral]

Objective reality is something that exists, but the thing is everyone views it in a different way. Some of these views are wrong, some are right.

[slender coral]

How?

[cinder quartz]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1089887073181372568/1328268833047187506/video_2025-01-13_14-32-43_online-video-cutter.com_1.gif

[feral river]

can you read the text behind this cat ?

[cinder quartz]

sure i cant

[slender coral]

What does it say?

[restive zodiac]

now run away kid

[slender coral]

Run away from what exactly? You refuse to try to disprove my point that your book is so shallow. Maybe it's because I'm right.

[tender vessel]

I'd call it misleading when one is evading substantiating their assertions by saying "It's an opinion".

[restive zodiac]

u r the one who is claiming that ,first substantiate it with evidence

[feral river]

"they live there for a really long time"
"very skillful to master the skill of escape cars"

"and very cautious"
"they are likely to stay here for eating"
"they will ? (obscured)"
"and unwilling to (obscured)"

"most of them are (obscured)"
"these cats I (obscured)"

[restive zodiac]

ur claim is not a fact kid

[feral river]

it's Chinese I can read it lol

probably some cats are waiting for adoption in some center

[void arch]

what is going on here?

[stoic whale]

if you claim your perspective is a fact just because you believe it, that would mean no one can ever be wrong and that clearly isn’t the case.

[stoic whale]

someone seaking attention 🙂

[tender vessel]

Sup bro! Assalamualikum.
How is it going, my friend? 🤍

[slender coral]

It's not a fact because I believe it, it's that I believe it because I think it's a fact.

[tender vessel]

Long time no see.

[restive zodiac]

someone throwing a misleading text as fact without any evidence, and demanding us to refute his magic

[void arch]

waalaykum assalam brother, very good alhamduliallah what about u

[void arch]

ohh see

[restive zodiac]

most immature thing u displayed so far

[tender vessel]

Glad to hear that. 🤍
I'm doing okay, alhamdulillah.

[slender coral]

Take this as an example of a fallacious argument. It's shifting the burden of proof, instead of presenting a proof it asks doubters to present a proof themselves.

And if you are in doubt about what We have revealed to Our servant,1 then produce a sûrah like it and call your helpers other than Allah, if what you say is true.
https://quran.com/2/23

[void arch]

alhamduliallah

[feral river]

I don't even have to drop into this, it's all enough to use just some simple philosophy to defeat religion

or a little bit history ?

[restive zodiac]

First of all u are not aware of the context of this ayah, as Kufar Quraich first claim that this book is man made book and easy to imitate , so the quraan respond to that with that challenge .

[slender coral]

Logic, histroy, and science, all go against our friends' beliefs.

[feral river]

and they are defeated already besides some terrorist organization taking over some area and declaring how great they are

[thorny steeple]

Who says they want them to go back to Poland?

[restive zodiac]

this is just my humble respond ,and i dont claim its the truth

[feral river]

who cares, they are done already

[eager cave]

Which country is best

[slender coral]

I'm pretty sure it's not in mena.

[feral river]

best in what

[eager cave]

To travel

[feral river]

idk I didn't travel all of the countries but for my experience would be Japan, China, Singapore

and Dubai also nice

but who knows what's going on in the rest of the UAE

[eager cave]

Hey where are you from

[feral river]

PRC 🇨🇳

[restive zodiac]

prepare urself for "الجلد"

[thorny steeple]

Not the ROC

[feral river]

ROC is awesome

btw I think most places in East Asia, North America, Western Europe, Oceania are nice because they are prosperous

rest of the world was like another world

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[slender coral]

And you say I'm the immature one

[thorny steeple]

How's life in prc

[slender coral]

Seems like he enjoys it

Afaik the CCP is doing good for now

[next grove]

What are you talking about?

[feral river]

nice

[slender coral]

Two convos. One about whether the Quran is shallow or not, the other is about China apparently.

[thorny steeple]

Cool

[restive zodiac]

im not immature in my arguments as u , and im just joking there unlike u putting empty opinions in the plate of a fact, show how dishonest u are

but prepare urself for "الجلد"

[next grove]

Alright that's great but I am a beginner 😔

[slender coral]

It's ok. You'll improve with practice.

[tender vessel]

It is not the prose of a poet ˹as you claim˺, ˹yet˺ you hardly have any faith. [Qur'an 69:41]

Now, the pagans are astonished that a warner has come to them from among themselves.1 And the disbelievers say, “This is a magician, a total liar! [Qur'an 38:4]

And those who disbelieve say, 'This is nothing but a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it.' But they have committed an injustice and a lie. And And those who disbelieve say, "This [Qur’ān] is not except a falsehood he invented, and another people assisted him in it." But they have committed an injustice and a lie. (4) And they say, “˹These revelations are only˺ ancient fables which he has had written down, and they are rehearsed to him morning and evening.” [Qur'an 25:4-5]

It's funny how you've asserted the same claim as they did about the Prophet re-narrating ancient fables and legends. Lol. Reminds me of when Allah said "The same was said by those who came before. Their hearts are all alike." (Qur'an 2:118).

Anyhow, the Qur'an challenges those in the previous Ayat who claimed it's "ancient fables", "magic", and "poetry" as they had magicians, poets, and groups who were knowledgeable about ancient legends. It's an open challenge, though. Produce something like it if you wish.

So, it's not a shift in the burden of proof, it's obligating the opponents to substantiate their assertions. They obviously couldn't.

[next grove]

Thanks. But how ? Can you give me a method

[restive zodiac]

"الجلد" has came

[slender coral]

It's still shifting the burden of proof.

it's not a shift in the burden of proof, it's obligating the opponents to substantiate their assertions.
This is basically an attempt to make shifting the burden of proof seem like something logical.

[slender coral]

Go to this channel for good advices #📚｜english-questions

[manic juniper]

Idk some antisemitic people

[tender vessel]

How come?

[restive zodiac]

some Europeans are anti immigrants too

[manic juniper]

Yes, pretty much everywhere in the world

[slender coral]

The verse speaks to the doubters, telling them that if they doubt the Quran they should bring something like it. It shifts the burdan of proof from Mohamed who is claiming that the Quran is divine, to the people who are naturally doubtful of that.

[restive zodiac]

is that good ? .and if it s fine , why making others antisemitic if they just oppose immigration like others?

[restive zodiac]

u shifted the context , bcz this Aya is respond to the claims of kufar that Quraan is a work of a man

[manic juniper]

Because they are not immigrants if they are born and lived their entire lives there, that's like saying third generation descendants of refugees with a citizenship are still immigrants

[restive zodiac]

so the challenge rise the problem in their reasoning as they dont have any evidence, and since they can't establish that challenge

[manic juniper]

???

[restive zodiac]

so its bad since they are not anymore immigrants, that s fine. unfortunately they re ppl that label them as immigrants

[manic juniper]

Why is it bad

[restive zodiac]

it s bad to be against them

[manic juniper]

There could be good reasons

There are good reasons to be against other citizens as well, but calling for deportation and statelessness is against their rights

[restive zodiac]

what are these examples? i think they are just normal citizens like others as u affirm

[restive zodiac]

so should be treated equally like other citizens.

[thorny steeple]

Your comment seemed a little bit confusing them, "they" refers to antimetic people but the person who shot is a jew himself

[thorny steeple]

So why would a Jew be antisemite?

[tender vessel]

The challenge is not "It's divine unless you prove otherwise", it's "If you claim this is just human speech, then produce something comparable".
It's not that they were skeptical whether it's true or not, it's that they've claimed it's not, as per the previous Ayat. As I stated previously, the burden of proof is on you even if you're claiming the negative. Unless you adopt an agnostic position, you're required to substantiate your claim. It's perfectly logical to present a counter-challenge to refute the opponent's argument.
The Qur'an essentially recognizes the burden of proof (e.g., 46:4, 21:24, 27:64).

[feral river]

you can guess why

[restive zodiac]

لقد تم جلدك

[feral river]

nobody want a random guy who is speaking another different lanaguge wear some stupid stuff walking around in their community and say a bunch of stupid piece of shit nobody gives a fucking shit

[slender coral]

"It's divine unless you prove otherwise" = "If you claim this is just human speech, then produce something comparable"
Those are basically the same. If I don't believe that your claim is right I'd naturally consider it wrong, it's silly to ask me for proof that you are wrong instead of presenting a proof that you are right, and it's sillier to not consider it shifting the burden of proof fallacy. The verses you mentioned at the end use the same tactic shamelessly.

[restive zodiac]

بالصحة و العافية

[feral river]

I even doubt why they would allow immigrants and grant them some power, let me get straight to this, this is fucking invasion

and nobody wanted to be invaded

[restive zodiac]

and Guess what .idc about ur opinion .

[feral river]

you can not to care, but you will care because this is happening that, you will get less and less immigration in this world

[restive zodiac]

that's why Chinese are everywhere, soft invasion?

[feral river]

you will see what will happen

[feral river]

if we can, we do it

[dapper laurel]

He's the Islamic terrorist who killed a 14-year-old boy in Austria and injured four others with a knife. He laughs after taking the life of a young boy who was guilty of being considered an "infidel". The raised finger is a symbol of jihadist fighters, those who consider Allah as the only God. He is a terrorist in all respects.

Europe has failed to keep order on the streets because of these alien immigrants. While we export graduates abroad, we import this scum. It's time for all this to end

[feral river]

we do for ourselves and we prevent other guy coming in

ever see we take even one refuggee from outside of the world ?

[restive zodiac]

immigration is a natural phenomenon but it doesn't regard the fact that should be regulated

[feral river]

none, starting from 1949 to now

0

[dapper laurel]

And now china is literally blessed

[restive zodiac]

so if a christian did the same ill label all Christians to be terrorists ?

[feral river]

that's the case if there's no border and there's no state

you aren't live in an anarchy society neither I'm

[dapper laurel]

Wtf, did you at least see what I wrote?

[restive zodiac]

i dont oppose it obv , but i dont it is a bad thing if it was regulated

[feral river]

immigration flow is now a crisis, it's not few years ago some people promoting immigration for their pocket because they can exploit them, they are cheap and they are taxable

and even some groups, especially from the middle east, started to participating in some politicial movement against the interest of their nation

[restive zodiac]

when u add a muslim to a criminal ur labeling a while nation to be so, why we dont do the same when it s a Christian rapist and we suffice to say a murderer?

[feral river]

and people wanted to stop that, 2024 presidential election proved everything

[dapper laurel]

Lol, I repeat, did you read carefully what I wrote?

[feral river]

maybe Trump isn't perfect, he's a felon, he's a racist, he's a transphobic assh, but for american nation, he's the man we needed
Make America Great Again 🇺🇸

[thorny steeple]

Make china great again

[inland hedge]

aint u like chinese

[restive zodiac]

https://youtu.be/Hm78oTP9MaI?si=ONqdmn04Eb00TXe_

[dapper laurel]

You literally avoided the question

[upper peak]

Every religious person is the criminal at the end , so sad !

[dapper laurel]

How can you empathize with a criminal?

[thorny steeple]

Unexpected lmao

[upper peak]

Moral : do not binded by any religion..

[dapper laurel]

After he killed a 14 year old boy, how dare you?

[thorny steeple]

Death penalty ASAP lmao

[stoic whale]

not all immigrants are criminals.

[restive zodiac]

i dont , i do disagree with u labeling it to a whole nation to promote hate , thats why watch that ved

[upper peak]

Because every time I see , one religion's perspective waits for another to point towards another act..

[thorny steeple]

That's true

[thorny steeple]

In truth y'know

[dapper laurel]

It's worse this way. They want me to be killed for their "holy war" so they can get in the heaven a big prize (72 virgins or something 😂)

[thorny steeple]

Lmao now that's crazy 🤣

[dapper laurel]

I don't promote hate, your actions promote hate. I'm just exposing some actions

[restive zodiac]

see u r promoting misconceptions

[restive zodiac]

not all muslims or immigrants do that action

u just affirm my claim

ur literally labeling it to whole nation

[dapper laurel]

So? They still do that

[stoic whale]

just leave him be, in my country we say "c'est l'extrême-droite dans toute sa splendeur"

[restive zodiac]

they re extremists in any ideology or religion ,ur just making an exception to be the rule

[restive zodiac]

oui c'est vrai

[dapper laurel]

Coincidentally, an exception, it's a shame it's not the only one

[mossy night]

[dapper laurel]

Last year another one of those freaks stabbed and killed a policeman

[dapper laurel]

In Germany

[mossy night]

I'm atheist

[restive zodiac]

most extremists are not muslim, in fact Mulims do suffer from those ppl more than others do

[stoic whale]

well in my country a christian man stabbed children in the name of God. did we say all christians are terrorists ? no, because this man does not represent christianity.

[dapper laurel]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4nn8nl8gv3o

[upper peak]

Ooh , nice !

[mossy night]

U also 🧐

[slender coral]

Best thing

[mossy night]

Yeah 👍

[mossy night]

And u

[restive zodiac]

u just heard of them bcz ur media is Merely a propaagnda ,u heard word muslim just with 'muslim killers' , but when it s from other background is no more from it!

[stoic whale]

in all religions there are crazy people, doesn't mean everyone is crazy.

[mossy night]

Chats look so serious 🙀 here

🙀

[upper peak]

Han !

[stoic whale]

here, it's a policeman who stabbed a kid

[mossy night]

Nice 👍

[slender coral]

[stoic whale]

because he was north african

[dapper laurel]

I never said all Muslims are terrorists, I just called that damned guy a terrorist after he killed a 14 year old. Is there anything wrong with that?

[restive zodiac]

like this things don't happen usual ?

[dapper laurel]

Here the message

[mossy night]

But why u are vegan 🌿

[mossy night]

Hi bro 👋

[stoic whale]

i agree with you, but you also said that the problem is immigrants

which isn't true

[dapper laurel]

Literally in your country in 2015 hell happened because of Islamic terrorists

[dapper laurel]

Most crimes are committed by migrants, or at least in proportion to their population

[stoic whale]

i know, does that mean i need to hate on all immigrants because they could be islamic terrorists ?

[stoic whale]

i need numbers.

[restive zodiac]

do u know the impact of saying that ? imagine i say the Christian terrorist !,it s merly a terrorist and religion has nothing to do with it , bcz his religion forbids killing innocent people to begin with !

[stoic whale]

he also forgot that there were immigrants, muslims, jews, black people who died during this tragedy.

[tender vessel]

No it's not.
Stating "unicorns are real unless you prove otherwise" is not equivalent to "If you assert unicorns don't exist, prove it". The former is shifting the burden of proof, while the latter holds the claimer accountable for their assertion.
The default position is "I don't know". Meaning that I neither know if unicorns exist or not.
Similarly, you can't claim "it's man-made" unless there is a proof. The Qur'an challenges the "men" to produce a man-made Surah that resembles it.
I'd highly recommend learning more about logical fallacies so as to not mislabel arguments with such.

Regarding the Ayat I've mentioned, the first demands proof for their belief in other Gods (idols); The second is the same as the first, but not necessarily idols; The third is demanding a proof that their Gods create and resurrect etc...

If I don't believe that your claim is right I'd naturally consider it wrong
No. If you don't believe someone's claim, it doesn't necessarily mean you consider it wrong. It just means you haven't been introduced to sufficient evidence to believe it.
If you do believe your opponent is wrong, you must have a reason, some sort of proof or evidence that they are not right; therefore, claiming that I'm wrong puts the burden of proof upon you.
For instance, if someone claims unicorns exist, they bear the burden of proof to provide sufficient warrant for their claim. On the other hand, if you assert that unicorns do not exist, you are responsible for providing reasons, evidence, or justification to support that claim. Simply because the default position is "I don't know". Either positive or negative claims require substantiation.
I hope you finally get the point. This is probably the farthest I can explain the burden of proof principle.

[restive zodiac]

flare is slugish at typing

[tender vessel]

Proofreading. 😅

[thorny steeple]

?def proofreading

[cursive bobcat]

:x: That word could not be found in the dictionary.

[restive zodiac]

well understandable

[tender vessel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proofreading

https://www.grammarly.com/proofreading

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/proofreading

[dapper laurel]

Related crimes in Germany per 100,000 by nationality

[dapper laurel]

North Africa and the Middle East lead the way

Fantastisch

[stoic whale]

did you really use something from twitter ?

and from 2016 ??

can you translate what's written ?

[thorny steeple]

Alright so checking if it has mistakes and fixing them to publish it without them

[steep haven]

Apparently, Hitler invaded Poland on Sept 1, 1939.

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[dapper laurel]

Countries and regions: crimes without asylum violations, foreign suspects per 100,000 inhabitants

[dapper laurel]

The situation can only get worse with the increased migratory flow

[stoic whale]

do you know what "suspects" means ?

[stoic whale]

please give me a more recent version

and not from twitter but from the government

[dapper laurel]

👌🏻

[restive zodiac]

The data refers to "ausländischer Tatverdächtiger" (foreign suspects). which means suspect is not necessarily a convicted criminal. This data reflects suspected individuals, not convictions.

[stoic whale]

exactly.

[stoic whale]

thank you.

[restive zodiac]

also the data specifically refers to foreign suspects. and It only includes individuals who are not German citizens.

[thorny steeple]

[restive zodiac]

abu umnia u u ve been ultimately جلدك

[dapper laurel]

https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/crime-justice-and-the-law/policing/number-of-arrests/latest/

[dapper laurel]

Fron the UK

Between 2022 and 2023

[shy summit]

So this is likelihood to be arrested, which says more about implicit bias than implicit behavior

https://books.google.com/books/about/The_New_Jim_Crow.html?id=_SKbzXqmawoC

Recomend this

[dapper laurel]

Not really

[restive zodiac]

there is not factual context , and i can easily label it to racism that those black ppl face and neglection of their rights

[shy summit]

Or systemic inequality

[restive zodiac]

very much

[stoic whale]

and also, where are the arabs that you were pointing at earlier ?

[shy summit]

Many non citizens face that issue worldwide

[dapper laurel]

Why do you always try to empathize with criminals?

[shy summit]

Half the studies only cite arrests not convictions