🧠｜serious-chat

[manic juniper]

I'm simply sharing stuff here

[lament forge]

I guess Thor ain't sleepin soon

[thorny steeple]

I really wonder.
Why aren't you questioning your own standards as well? There is a good reason to question them, called the fallacy of presentism.

[latent minnow]

Who said im not

[rancid grotto]

If the problem were only the dolls... Marrying a 6yo bro and being intimate when she's 9y

[coarse mango]

wow why am I in this channel? btw is this discussion even legal?

here

[latent minnow]

Flare is justifying child grooming

[thorny steeple]

Sure, a finally tuned universe popped into existence out of absolutely nothing.

[latent minnow]

Fallacy

[lament forge]

nothing should be a reason to do that

[rancid grotto]

*Trying to, there's no justification to this

[latent minnow]

Prove it came from nothing, prove its finely tuned

[thorny steeple]

You don't believe the prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him existed?

[latent minnow]

No

I do not, i hope not

[rancid grotto]

I don't believe either

[lament forge]

bruh , don't u know what an atheist mean

[manic juniper]

Helou, these discussions don't happen often on here. Sorry for the bad representation

[thorny steeple]

Even Hitler married women that were not 18 yet

[latent minnow]

I think quran is a book full of mythologies taken from various other religions

Flare has nothing but a claim, barely an assumption, no proof, no evidence, just blind faith

[manic juniper]

The way I see it he likely existed but he was nowhere near as described, it's just a cult of personality or mythically exaggerated. It's common for the least historically documented kings, think of the first Chinese rulers that likely weren't real

[latent minnow]

The Muhammed character in the book didnt exist.. the person it might have been based on is irrelevant

[manic juniper]

Romulus too, perhaps there was someone named Romulus after the city of Rome (since it's a diminutive)
But he didn't found Rome nor destroyed Alba Longa and stuff

[rancid grotto]

He's only doing the thing that almost all the religious people do, trying to "prove" their religion with faith and no proof (and a book wrote hundreds of years ago)

[manic juniper]

Wasn't Muhammad's biography written centuries after he died
And the hadiths too, we should believe that they kept existing in oral form for over 100 years, sometimes over 200 years before they wrote them down

[thorny steeple]

Same with the first Roman kings, their time of rule isn't compatible with the amount of kings that existed

[coarse mango]

Understandable.. I see an "atheist" in their name which auto translate to "im confused i need validation for my thoughts" its a common occurence on the internet 🥜

[thorny steeple]

It is said that Numa instituted the first census within the empire but we don't know whether he really existed or not

[latent minnow]

Muhammed changed a gospel because he didnt like it 600 years after it happened, why would I trust him over the original? xD

[latent minnow]

I like to laugh at people

[thorny steeple]

Again, what is the appropriate age of marriage (objectively)? If you say not 9, then what is it? 18? 15? 100? These ages vary from one state to another on the same land (America), how do you expect it to be fixed historically and culturally?
I've already cited a passage about the varying age of consent in the US here: #🧠｜serious-chat message

[manic juniper]

Yes, the first proof of a title of "king" (written as "regi", preceding the classical Latin "rex") may have been a sacerdotal title and not a political one. It also was found much later, not in the 7th century BC as they say in the later Roman stories

[latent minnow]

.....

[rancid grotto]

And here we go again

[latent minnow]

Why not 2 flare? Why not 80, like i said, mental and physical health. A 9 year old child isnt ready for marriage under ANY circumstances

Im losing braincells, im heading to bed... please fix your view on children flare. Leave peoples young daughters alone

[lament forge]

Can't be fr 💀

[manic juniper]

Even one of the first consuls that founded the Republic may have been mythical

[coarse mango]

@thorny steeple You will never be able to express yourself clearly enough for those who want to misunderstand you -J. Warren Welch-

[latent minnow]

There is nothing to misunderstand

[manic juniper]

Another one? They are multiplying

[lament forge]

a

[coarse mango]

true, it has been stated clearly

[latent minnow]

So why throw out a random quote?

[thorny steeple]

Simple. Human's are known for rationality. Why would you post two random Hadiths that coincidentally happen to insinuate a stereotype of children in modern-day in a discussion about Aisha's marriage and whether she was ready for it or not?
I remember when you used to call me out for allegedly circling around, while it seems you're the one who does so all the time, with all due respect.

[lament forge]

nice quote at a wrong situation

[latent minnow]

What do i circoe around with?

Circle*

[coarse mango]

because you're throwing out a random reply? Flare was clearly just giving the statistics and you started assuming

[lament forge]

..

good job

[manic juniper]

Humans aren't well known for their rationality, especially when they justify things like these but at least some do feel called out

[latent minnow]

"Statistics"

[thorny steeple]

Both the first stories you mentioned and the last ones (the rape of Lucrecia) were fabrications. Romulus could have been raised by a prostitute as the term "lupa" designates both prostitutes and wolves

[coarse mango]

Yea quote a word, thats how you start misinterpreting things

[thorny steeple]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

[rancid grotto]

Objectively, the consumption of a marriage only occurs if the woman has a developed body to have birth (that's more true if there's no contraceptive methods), so I want to see the scientific article that say that a 9yo "woman" is ready to give birth because a 9yo can be sufficient mature to marry according to your arguments, can you send me the articles?

[manic juniper]

Last time I simply answered that anywhere from 18 to 25 is an ideal age to allow most people to marry, unless they have heavy mental disabilities

[thorny steeple]

Wow, you guys need to wait in a line or something, I can't respond to all massages simultaneously.

[latent minnow]

18 is also very young

9 is insanity

[manic juniper]

These ages are indicative simply to avoid grooming or abuse since there is no mature 10 years old for sure, and if they mature at 17 (something I still find hard to believe) it doesn't hurt if she waits one more year before taking a life-changing decision

[coarse mango]

So who is advocating marrying a 9yo in the present? is there a case of it happening?

[thorny steeple]

Marriages were mostly arranged when the age of consent was that low, so they didn't even have to take any decisions

[latent minnow]

People who use Muhammed as a rolemodel

[manic juniper]

https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/09/19/iraqs-amended-personal-status-law-could-make-9-year-olds-brides

[coarse mango]

And where are those people that are supposedly "marrying 9 yo girls" ?

[latent minnow]

Muslim families

[thorny steeple]

That is so disrespectful

[torpid copper]

hey guys

[thorny steeple]

Why don't you be patient with me and like, you know, actually argue for your point?
I'm willing to go against the mainstream belief about marriage, why don't you at least respond with actual logically sound arguments? I've refuted your "common sense" claim and proved, historically, people didn't share you "common sense". I've proved that the age of consent has never been fixed and it's pretty much arbitrary based on cultural norms.
I don't know what is there left for your argument to act as if you're right about it.

[coarse mango]

That's called hatespeech

[latent minnow]

Yes Muhammed didnt respect aisha boundaries

[thorny steeple]

Do your research

[latent minnow]

I told you to open a scientific book and read it yourself

[latent minnow]

I have, that's why im disgusted

[thorny steeple]

"And here we go again" is not an argument, it's hardly even an objection.

[thorny steeple]

that is the wrong resources

[latent minnow]

.....

So its Hatespeech to point out what your "prophet" did?

Amazing

[thorny steeple]

Read Quran

[latent minnow]

Where do you think I found out what Muhammed did

[thorny steeple]

The Qur'an is the only true and final guide for Muslims. It was sent by Allah to Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to teach us how to live. Speaking badly about the Prophet (peace be upon him) is wrong and hurtful. He showed kindness, mercy, and fairness to everyone and lived by the teachings of the Qur'an. We should respect others and share peace while staying strong in our faith.

[latent minnow]

Quran is a claim, bot evidence or proof

[thorny steeple]

It's clear that the common ground between me and you guys is not the age of marriage. I'm trying to invite you to a common ground where we can reach a conclusion based it so that we don't simply exchange comments such as yours.
I've expressed my argument for why the modern-day common sense of marriage is not binding and judging people historically based on present-day standards is an argument from presentism (a logical fallacy) here:
#🧠｜serious-chat message
#🧠｜serious-chat message
#🧠｜serious-chat message

[latent minnow]

I refuse your common child grooming ground

[coarse mango]

That is crazy, and it seems valid

[thorny steeple]

Where did you get that information? Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) never did anything wrong or inappropriate. He was known for his honesty, kindness, and excellent character. He treated everyone with respect, fairness, and compassion, regardless of their background. Many people admired him for his integrity and humility, and even his enemies testified to his good character. He was a role model for justice and goodness, and his life is a perfect example of how to live with dignity and honor.

[latent minnow]

Except for having sex with a child

[thorny steeple]

he never did that!!

[latent minnow]

Finally, someone denied it instead of justifying it

World is healing

[coarse mango]

tbf I've never liked these so called "religious law"

[thorny steeple]

That claim is false and based on misinformation. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was known for his wisdom, kindness, and high moral character. His marriage to Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) was in line with the cultural practices of the time and was based on mutual respect and care. It's important to remember that historical events must be understood in their proper context. Spreading false accusations only causes harm and misunderstanding. I encourage you to research from authentic Islamic sources to understand the truth about his life and teachings.

[coarse mango]

why would you use an outdated text

in anything, ever

[thorny steeple]

Trying my best to show them the flaw in their complaint. It's not even an argument because there absolutely no objectivity or logicality about it.
I don't need to convince anybody of anything, they're free to choose whatever they wanna believe or disbelieve. I only deliver the message and argue for the sake of it.
Basically, making it clear, and letting them choose whatever they want to believe.

[latent minnow]

Its in your hadiths....

[thorny steeple]

This is the bottom line for this chat, I've never witnessed anyone openly justifying paedophilia. And they can't be banished because it would be islamophobia

[latent minnow]

Are you serious? Ive said it 5 times now, a 9 year old CANT be physically or mentally fit for marriage

[manic juniper]

I need lemon overdose

[thorny steeple]

Did I ever say you're circling around? Review the message, I'm replying to Isfrun.

[thorny steeple]

I'm not aiming to justify anything. Whether you like it or not, it's what it is.
Justification means there is an actual problem, when the only problem is your idea about the topic.

[latent minnow]

There is a problem

Wtf is wrong with you

Please stay away from young girls. Ive had enough of this

[manic juniper]

To me it seems the case, other people here can testify as well. What are you going to say? Ad populum fallacy?

[coarse mango]

I mean, I get that there are people out there advocating child marriage but you're just accusing Flare of supporting it here. Flare themselves never said they agreed with it. they were just saying its not a religious thing it historically happens in various cultures

[latent minnow]

Flare has said multiple times he objectively = across time thinks its ok

[coarse mango]

that'd be f'd up

[latent minnow]

Not subjectively

[manic juniper]

He just said that there is nothing wrong with it

[latent minnow]

And call me the problem for wanting to protect and not wanting to deflower young girls

[manic juniper]

"I don't think that slavery should be practiced but there is nothing wrong with it"

[latent minnow]

Thats either active support or passive at worst

Negative

I cant disprove god, but i reject the claim

Stop trying to justify it

Its against discord TOS

And all the stories about aisha was written by her masters... not her herself so they are irrelevant

I don't care about the quran, i don't care about Muhammed or aisha. I just want you to stop promoting this

Lets keep it at 18 just so everyone is not at risk and leave it there. There is NO reason for why that shouldnt be the case

End of discussion

[thorny steeple]

Okay, why don't you cite some?

[latent minnow]

Im done with you

[thorny steeple]

Neither do I stand on any child grooming ground. I'm simply inviting you to the common ground of logic and rationality.
I've pointed out the flaws in your reasoning. Your responses so far have been baseless assertions, factual errors, and unnecessary comments. I don't see where is the intellectual discussion in that.

[latent minnow]

Im saying wait until the body is ready, there is no flaw in that logic

https://www.unicef.org/protection/child-marriage

[latent minnow]

Quran is an assumption and a factual error, dont try to lecture me with "facts"

[rancid grotto]

Having the menarcha doesn't mean being able to carry a child in their uterus, unfortunately even girls who aren't sufficient developed yet can get pregnant, however it's extremely harmful to girls at that age to carry a child and giving birth, some of them actually die because of this, and that's the reason that some countries legalized the abortion to girls at that age. There's not a justification to a disgusting act like this nor any argument

[lament forge]

damn still here

[latent minnow]

ALL girl arent capable, not some...ALL

You're sick flare...

[thorny steeple]

It is indeed ad populum fallacy, because it relies on the majority's held belief rather than logical argumentation.
The most widespread religion is Islam, does that mean Islam is true to you?

[latent minnow]

Im sorry for you

[latent minnow]

No

[manic juniper]

I like how Flare once said that morality is objective but is doing moral relativism here

[lament forge]

isn't that an agnostic perhaps

[latent minnow]

Agnostic atheist

[manic juniper]

It's not even the most widespread

[thorny steeple]

Now this is indeed a fallacy, false equivalence

[thorny steeple]

I'm not justifying anything. You're free to accept my responses or not. I merely respond to the flawed responses you guys are making.

[latent minnow]

Believe what you want

[lament forge]

yeah got it , that's what I am

[lament forge]

True shi

[rancid grotto]

And it's preposterous to say that a 6yo child is sufficient mature to marry a man, it's the biology of the development of our brains, we cannot be mature enough to marry a 6y in normal circumstances. A girl in that age "can only be mature enough" if she is taught to say that or she's forced to do so

[latent minnow]

Saying my logic is flawed doesnt make it true

[thorny steeple]

I've made it clear I don't encourage child marriage. I'm showing the flaw in the reasoning of judging past eras' cultural standards with today's cultural standards. I've also proved that Aisha's marriage did not cause any harm to her, and that Islam explicitly prohibits a marriage that causes harm to either party.

[latent minnow]

You havent made that clear at all

[lament forge]

No kind of belief should shield you from the fact that a child marrying and reproducing is a cruel and vile act.

[latent minnow]

Imagine claiming to have the moral superiority while blessing a child groomer

[thorny steeple]

are you say that the girls in the desert and before more than 1400 are same with girls now?

[lament forge]

💀

nothing else to say

[latent minnow]

They developed slower than today, so its even worse

Biology 101

[rancid grotto]

The common sense change as the years pass by, however a girl body doesn't, a 9yo will be a 9yo nowadays, will be a 9yo in the future and was a 9yo in the past

[lament forge]

fr , what kind of argument was that

[thorny steeple]

the girls before is more power and strong and s then girls now

[latent minnow]

Prove it

Thats a claim

[lament forge]

bro do you think before talking

[latent minnow]

They dont

They spew talking points

They had worse food then, less nutrition and conditions = worse development

[rancid grotto]

The girls from the ancient times were still girls, they weren't a different specie

[lament forge]

even if that wasn't the case... 9 is still wild

[latent minnow]

Its 1500 years, not 1.5 million

[lament forge]

it's not like we're talking about 20 yo then vs now , literally kids in this case

[latent minnow]

Muhammed was 52? Aisha was 9? How can any sane person think "that makes sense"

[thorny steeple]

does the ppl now can fight old ppl like romans and ..etc now with same weapons ?

[coarse mango]

Damn you guys are still here

[lament forge]

I think everything is correct as long as it's from them , maybe that's the reasoning

[latent minnow]

Do people train like they did? No

[lament forge]

brother.... 9 years old , tf are u talking about

[manic juniper]

Anyone that trained in a modern military would know that modern soldiers are much tougher

[coarse mango]

hahah

[lament forge]

lol yeah

[latent minnow]

Depends on the DEI hire military

[manic juniper]

Medieval plate armour weighed something like 14 kg meanwhile a soldier has to carry 40-60 kg or more on his back

[rancid grotto]

"Oh no, the marriage didn't made any harm to her"

[latent minnow]

According to Muhammed

[lament forge]

when u put it like that 😭

[latent minnow]

Muhammed had 14 women, was a real baller

[thorny steeple]

With all due respect, you're oblivious about the nature of Hadiths and their transmission.
Hadiths are not written text, they are orally transmitted actions and sayings of the prophet upon him be peace and blessings. They've been written, sure, but that doesn't mean that's how they are authentic.
Each narrator narrated the Hadith on the other until it reached to us, this is called the chain of narration.
There is a whole Islamic science called ʻilm al-ḥadīth (science of Hadith) used to study the authenticity of Hadiths and their narrators.
We literally have hundreds of books about ʿilm ar-rijāl (Science of Narrators) which is a discipline of the science of Hadith in which scholars examine the biography of each and every narrator in any Hadith to validate their credibility. If only one non-credible narrator is found in the chain of narration of one Hadith, it's instantly rejected and graded "Da'ief" (Weak), even if the whole chain of narration consists of other credible narrators.
Hadith scholars have examined and rejected coutnless Hadiths' that actually could've supported Islam, but because there is a systematic examination for that, they don't accept or reject Hadiths based on their own whims.
I highly recommend reading about this subject rather than speaking out of ignorance, with no offense of course.

[thorny steeple]

you see how the circumastances are diiffernt and poverty and the weather like orgin arab

[rancid grotto]

And the book that him and his friends wrote with their visions of the situation

[latent minnow]

Sure buddy

[lament forge]

I guess all the people that defend it , would like their daughters to marry at such a short age

[latent minnow]

They simply cant say "the prophet did wrong"

[coarse mango]

Isnt early puberty in and on itself a problem? like a sign of poor diet and things like that

[latent minnow]

Yup

Muhammed was like "its go time"

[lament forge]

bro 💀

[rancid grotto]

Comparing the development of a 9yo throughout the history with the development of weapons and war, a great argument indeed

[thorny steeple]

Great!! And I couldn't agree more.
We also hold the same principle as Muslims, but we assert that Aisha consummated her marriage in an age where she was ready physically and mentally.

[latent minnow]

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:5134

[lament forge]

wow wow wow

[latent minnow]

Thats what happens when people dont get educations

You think being ready is before 9 when its literally and figuratively impossible on all fronts

[thorny steeple]

My messiah didn't marry, I don't have to go through that

[rancid grotto]

Of course, a 9yo is ready to give birth, serious?

[latent minnow]

Mary got pregnant at 12...

[thorny steeple]

I don't mean to offend you, but your condescending tone is enough of a proof for how close-minded you are. What do you mean "don't lecture me about facts"? Is it just because I'm Muslim means I'm not as intellectually capable as you are? Lol. That would be the stupidest claim you've made so far if that's what you mean.

[latent minnow]

Thats 1/4 older than aisha

[thorny steeple]

But she didn't have intercourse

[lament forge]

Brother , I've talked with muslims before and they don't argue shit like u do

[latent minnow]

You're taking your facts from an assumption....

[thorny steeple]

1/3

[latent minnow]

12 is 1/4 more than 9?

[lament forge]

Math ain't mathing

[latent minnow]

Haha

[thorny steeple]

What does that have to do with Aisha?
She didn't suffer from any of these problems. I've already made it clear that these things you're talking about are highly relative.

[manic juniper]

It's ⅓ more, 3/9

[lament forge]

relative

[latent minnow]

How would you know? Were you there to know what really happened?

[lament forge]

wut both are the same

[latent minnow]

Depends on how you look at it

[manic juniper]

Yes, that's the point

[lament forge]

oh got it

[coarse mango]

Thats how faith work, no one knows 🥜

[thorny steeple]

Aisha was 9, so Mary was 1/3 older than her

[latent minnow]

Its 2:37am i dont know math

[lament forge]

well I mean , even 16 and 25 are bad , imagine 9 and 40ish

[latent minnow]

You're right invictus

[manic juniper]

There is also the brain damage from the current conversation

[lament forge]

We noticed , now rest

[latent minnow]

I dropped 40 points in IQ

Good night

[lament forge]

cheers

[latent minnow]

xD

[rancid grotto]

It's not only aisha bro it's all the children that has to marry and be intimate with a 20+yo man at a young age like 9

[coarse mango]

so Mary had 33,333% more of aisha's age

[lament forge]

💀

[thorny steeple]

That happens to everyone, chills

[manic juniper]

Goodnight

[lament forge]

whatever , goodnight y'all

[thorny steeple]

Source: trust me bro. Lol.
Jokes aside, prove it.

[coarse mango]

bro you can't "xD" this is #🧠｜serious-chat xD

[thorny steeple]

33,333...%

[balmy folio]

If Aisha's marriage is debated because cultural norms of 7th-century Arabia differed significantly from modern values. What was customary then may not align with today’s understanding of childhood and consent

Historical actions should not be viewed by todays lens

[lament forge]

💀

[balmy folio]

it is presentism fallacy

[manic juniper]

Moral relativism but only when it is in my favour

[lament forge]

not celebrated either

anyways bye

[thorny steeple]

@latent minnow
This article says puberty can be reached in girls from ages such as 8 all the way to 13: https://kidshealth.org/en/parents/understanding-puberty.html
So, on what basis are you claiming all girls are subject to your rule?

[lament forge]

[balmy folio]

you arent forced to do anything stop committing fallacies

[coarse mango]

oh my

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/skull-explode-gif-25528415

[thorny steeple]

Technically when they reach menarch, but this is just the beginning, still weird

Even if she had reached puberty yet that would be weird

The minority of girls reach menarch at such an early age, and this isn't a standard

[rancid grotto]

Having the menarcha doesn't mean being able to have sex

[coarse mango]

If you really think about it to say this means that you agree that those people who are doing what is normalized in the present days has done an oopsie because they were ignorant, not saying its entirely their fault since studies won't be as advanced as they are nowadays but they were still ignorant people according to present standard 🥜

[thorny steeple]

Ofc but that's not what he's defending

[balmy folio]

labeling them as "ignorant" oversimplifies complex culture and the norms

it exposes your ignorancy

[rancid grotto]

You think he isn't trying to justify this?

[thorny steeple]

Just scroll up

[thorny steeple]

Not in all places, no.
In this study, which ironically was cited by Isfrun in the past to support the claim that Aisha wasn't ready, they've noticed girls are reached puberty earlier than during the 9th century. Of course this is only taking into account Western girls. However, one of their speculations for the cause of this phenomenon is non-western migrants miarrages with western girls. So, it's very likely that humans physiology has gone through a lot of changes throughout history, and that non-Western girls were actually menstruating earlier than western girls as the study seems to suggest. Environmental factors are actually important in such issue.
So, this claim is also unfounded.

[coarse mango]

I mean, these culture and norms are based on the knowledge of that time, no? 🤔

if only they knew better

is what im sayin

[manic juniper]

It legit says that people with better nutrition from hunter gatherer times reached puberty earlier than humans in agrarian societies, that's 40k years ago

It also says this, but leaving it out is convenient I guess
"These findings may be understood in terms of neurological development. Some domains of neurodevelopment, largely related to affect (romantic motivation, sexual interest, emotional intensity, changes in sleep/arousal, appetite, risk of affective disorders in females, increase in risk taking, novelty seeking, sensation seeking), are puberty specific, whereas most aspects of cognitive development (reasoning, logic and capacities for self-regulation of emotions and drives) mature in a more age-related fashion, continuing to develop slowly long after puberty is over."

We are only recently catching up with hunter gatherers

[balmy folio]

AI

written

[coarse mango]

we die faster cuz food was scarce and now we die faster cuz food is readily available

[thorny steeple]

Lol. Speaking of education, you're completely oblivious about history.
I genuinely hope you would give it more attention because it seems you're only holding tightly to whatever you've been taught by your culture and society, you even think it's binding to all cultures, civilizations, and eras, which as I've repeatedly said is the presentism fallacy.
Have a look at my response to @ Tecno here: #🧠｜serious-chat message

[manic juniper]

It's in the article

Seriously this is peak idiocy

The pot calling the kettle black

[rancid grotto]

The normal age of menarch can vary depending of different factors, but having the menarch doesn't mean being able to have sex and get pregnant, if a girl who is married become intimate with her husband so for the logic she's able to carry a child without problems (because the reason that cannot be changed to a intercourse, is getting children, and this is more true in a time where contraceptive methods aren't used), however, it's impossible to a 9yo carry a child without getting harmed in the process, their bodies aren't sufficient developed to this, wherever the part of the world.

[thorny steeple]

I never said a girl at 9 years old can give birth.
I only said it doesn't follow that just because it cannot give birth it's also incapable of marriage, especially in the context of their culture, era, and environment.
Furthermore, Aisha haven't suffered any health issues due to her marriage as one reviews all the Hadiths reported regarding Aisha and her life.
We only have Hadiths of her expressing how greatly it appreciates her marriage with the prophet as I've briefly presented here: #🧠｜serious-chat message

So, even if there are risks involved, that doesn't mean they apply to Aisha specifically. I've also mentioned how culturally familiar was that in their environment and era.
Interestingly, marrying at young ages persisted for such an incredibly long time, even in the US the age of consent was between 8 to 13 in some states recently, not to mention other countries. One state has actually had its age of consent at 7 years old, legally!
So, it wasn't a while back when your grandparents have married perhaps at 13 or 15 years old, which is nowadays would be considered child marriage.

[thorny steeple]

Watch your tongue, please.

[thorny steeple]

I cited sources. How am I "taking my facts from an assumption"?

[formal pilot]

[thorny steeple]

From the same source you rely on to say Aisha was 9 years old when consummated, Hadiths. Lol.
Are you going to cherry-pick certain Hadiths and leave others because they don't fit with your narrative?

[thorny steeple]

I understand, but the way you generalize is problematic.
Let me say it again, I do not encourage child marriage. I'm only proving that judging Aisha's marriage specifically and the cultural difference between now and their time is logically problematic and doesn't constitute anything objective.
I wouldn't marry at 12 or even 15 years personally, neither would I encourage my children to marry at these ages, because culturally, I don't want that, but I won't go and judge the historic age of marriage. I'd be fascinated that they were marry so young, but I wouldn't simply say "Oh, they were stupid because they didn't adhere to our modern-day standards". I hope you finally got my point.

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/awkward-smile-homelander-antony-starr-the-boys-awkward-laugh-gif-25704614

Funny. Hahaha.

[formal pilot]

💀

[rancid grotto]

Intercourse could be driven by the desire from people who have a sufficient developed body to want it. Children don't have a developed body to want this nor want these kind of things unless someone said to them to "want it" or force them to it

[thorny steeple]

It doesn't seem like it. Aisha has expressed her loved in multiple occasions as many Hadiths reported: #🧠｜serious-chat message

Furthermore, prophet Muhammad upon him be peace and blessings has never coerced anyone of anything in his home. Aisha herself said that: "She said God's messenger never struck anyone with his hand, neither a woman nor a servant, unless he was striving in God's path; and nothing was ever done to him for which he took revenge on the perpetrator unless things God had forbidden were transgressed, in which event he took revenge for God's sake. " [Mishkat al-Masabih 5818]

[manic juniper]

It makes it ok because he had an older wife

[thorny steeple]

Completely out of context. Reread.

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-get-out-kick-out-booted-bye-felicia-gif-2687852100583216889

[rancid grotto]

Wtf bro, why a child will have sexual desire?

[manic juniper]

Is it?

[rancid grotto]

Do you really know what you're writing?

[supple crystal]

yeah, children shouldnt even know what that is.

[manic juniper]

I'm not a thief, I never stole before. I only stole once at the bank. I could've stolen from my friends and family members, I had plenty of opportunities to

[formal pilot]

Blud literally said why would he marry khadija aa his first wife 💀

Wasn't she the biggest businesswoman of the region

[manic juniper]

Luckily it's difficult to die on an hill

[formal pilot]

Apparently being high isn't dangerous

[thorny steeple]

It is.

I've already mentioned countless times, I don't encourage it. I wouldn't let my children marry at such young ages. My argument revolves around judging based on presentism.

Aside from that, scholars contend that the prophet married Aisha primarily for teaching her the religion from her early ages so she grows to teach other Muslims after his death, which ultimately happened.

sigh

That was a long argument.

[manic juniper]

Leave it

[thorny steeple]

Don't bring that on, now. Lol. Weren't you the one who abstained from engaging in a philosophical discussion before about morality?
To respond though, whether morality is subjective or objective is a subject of meta-ethics, while the age of marriage, abortion and similar topics are subject of normative ethics. So, the age of marriage and whether it's relative has nothing to do with whether morality is objective or not.

[manic juniper]

Watch this instead
https://youtu.be/dEXGHYDWye8

[manic juniper]

Just straight up hypocrisy, I'm simply pointing it out. Presentism bad but moral absolutism is true

[thorny steeple]

You're the one who replied, I was just responding. Lol.

[thorny steeple]

Lol. I've never in my life argued for moral absolutism. It was moral realism that I argued for. That's first.
Second, there is no hypocrisy about it, because normative ethics =/= meta-ethics.
Meta-ethics deals with what is and the source. Normative ethics aims to give us a framework for ethics and how we ought to live.
We can debate normative ethics without touching meta-ethics. It's true that they are related, but they are still different disciplines in the philosophy of ethics.
We could both argue for and against a topic such as marriage while still believing morality is objective, because the age of marriage deals with numbers and aligining them, somehow, with what is moral (i.e., no harm should be caused). I argued that we can definitely put numbers for what ages are able to get married (legally), but that doesn't mean it's objective, it's building on an objective principle which is to not cause harm, what I objected was judging other numbers that have been put in the past by today's numbers. That's if I put the whole argument in an oversimplified format.

[thorny steeple]

You've been going all around about a completely irrelevant topics. If you won't accept Hadiths and Islam for the sake of the argument, then you shouldn't have stated "he married a 6 year old", because that fact is primarily extracted from Hadiths.
Additionally, I've been formulating logical arguments and supporting my claims with sources and evidence if necessary. You are the one who kept asserting with absolutely no argument or evidence to back any of your claims.
Lol. It's honestly hilarious that you'd have to resort to such non-argument comments in order to portray yourself as being correct and any other opposing argument is just wrong.

[thorny steeple]

What is left? -583759474?
Next time, work harder for your argumentation rather than resorting to insults and unnecessary comments.

[thorny steeple]

Finally, a logical statement out of this chaos.

[thorny steeple]

You're basically lying here.

[thorny steeple]

False equivalence.
The appropriate age for marriage has always been variable as I've proved countless times. It still is until today.
Equating slavery with marriage is like saying "planes are faster because trains are taller".
Nonsense.

[shy summit]

6-9 was young even for then

The issue here is neurological maturity I’d say.

[thorny steeple]

You could argue that, historically, slavery was endorsed, similar to the young age of marriages. However, the problem with that notion would be that slavery was endorsed due to factual error, people used to believe they are of superior races and therefore are entitled to having inferior races as slaves.
The age of marriage, specifically Aisha's, was not based on any factual error because marriages at these eras didn't simply mean intercourse, even if they married at a young age, they still only engaged in intercourse later when they were ready.

They meant long-term relationships at the time.

[shy summit]

Defending what we now consider and define to be child predation without condemnation seems a new low :/

We should still condemn it as we now know better.

[thorny steeple]

The fact no one criticized it despite the amount of enemies the prophet until the 19th century doesn't seem indicative of that.

[thorny steeple]

Have a look at this message: #🧠｜serious-chat message

[shy summit]

You do realize the fourth stage is beyond 12 years correct?

[thorny steeple]

The point is that we don't know better now.
The age of consent or marriage is based on cultural norms.
Unless a harm was inflicted by marriage, the age of marriage can vary between cultures, civilizations, eras, countries, or even individuals.

[shy summit]

We do however understand that children aren’t capable of such choices alone and should never be placed into such circumstances.

That much is obvious

This is as obvious as don’t beat your children. Don’t make them distrust you.

Don’t sexually exploit children

[thorny steeple]

3 stage "concrete operational".
It means a person is now aware of the environment.
It starts at the age of 7, while Aisha's marriage consummation was at the age of 9. 2 years after.

[shy summit]

My brother in mother fucking Adonalsium you are not defending this.

You cannot be post hoc reasoning that it was okay KNOWING what we now know

Do I even have to say why defending it by today’s standards isn’t okay…?

Like do I actually have to explain that to you?

[thorny steeple]

Agreed. If she ever rejected this marriage after growing up, the marriage would be invalid.

"a virgin must not be married till her permission is asked" [Mishkat al-Masabih 3126]

[shy summit]

C h i l d

H o l y S h i t.

We are not doing this

Nope

No sir

[thorny steeple]

This theory is likely: #🧠｜serious-chat message

[shy summit]

Bro… what did I just say. 😭 They never listen.

[thorny steeple]

That's the fourth stage.
Have a look at the 3rd.
Called "concrete operational stage", at this stage, a person becomes aware of his/her environment and are able to make informed decisions.

According to her own words years later after her marriage, she is completely satisfied and happy with her marriage. That's first.
Second, she was perfectly healthy and mentally capable, the majority of Hadiths are narrated by her, which indicates a perfect memory, along with the content of Hadiths about her life where she makes informed decisions, so she was perfectly healthy. She died at the age of 63. She lived perfectly healthy and okay.

[shy summit]

Ohmigod he’s stillgoing.

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/really-bitch-annoyed-face-stare-whatever-kid-gif-17309831

How could someone talk about his 9 years old events in detail if he wasn't mentally aware at that age??

You know what.

I'm disengaging. Had enough of stone heads.

[shy summit]

The fact that you’re only just now realizing that…

[latent minnow]

I told you to stop this hours ago flare

[thorny steeple]

People: oh poor Aisha, we are so sorry.
Aisha: for what??
People: for marrying at a young age.
Aisha: but I'm okay with that.
People: you must've hated your husband so much.
Aisha: I absolutely love him!
People: shut up! You don't.

Lol.

[shy summit]

I got it

[thorny steeple]

I was merely responding to your claims.

[latent minnow]

Again.. the quran is a claim

[balmy folio]

Dont yap

bring some evidence

[latent minnow]

Of what

[shy summit]

Thor pls

[latent minnow]

xD

[shy summit]

Wrong room for that

[rancid grotto]

[subtle spear]

It is in my B.Ed. syllabus

[formal pilot]

And he's muted

[shy summit]

N e w T o p i c

[tough gull]

Hinduism says that light and darkness are twins. The absence of light is darkness, the absence of darkness is light. By establishing this, the Vedas talk about the existence of matter and anti matter and the break in their equilibrium which resulted in the creation of the universe. Comment in your own words.

[lost hawk]

woww

[tough gull]

Whenever the equilibrium of a system is disrupted there is either an absorbance or a release of energy

[lost hawk]

n how is the equilibrium disrupted

[tough gull]

The Vedas say that the universe started getting created after a massive release of energy

This massive release of energy in modern science is called the Bing Bang theory

[tough gull]

Matter and anti matter didn't cancel each other out and thus got separated

This separation caused a massive release of energy

[lost hawk]

ohh n thus we got life as we are part of matter

[noble gust]

hii gyss

[dusky knot]

Hii

[tough gull]

However the Rig Veda does say:
ko addhā veda ka iha pravuḍcatkuta ājātā kuta iyaṁ visṛṣṭiḥ |
arvāg devā asya visarjanenāthā ko veda yata ābabhūva ||

Translation:
“Who really knows? Who will here proclaim it? Whence was it produced? Whence is this creation? The Gods came afterwards, with the creation of this universe. Who then knows whence it has arisen?”

It is believed that the Vedas say that there will always be ambiguity regarding how and when the universe was created as human knowledge is limited @lost hawk

[lost hawk]

helloo

[lost hawk]

woaa that does sound interesting indeed 😮

if we humans don't know then who may mnow

[tough gull]

We're mere human beings and some things go beyond our capabilities

[lost hawk]

maybe the answer to the universe is within us, stored in our dna!

[tough gull]

The Vedas says ‘no one’

[tough gull]

Maybe!!

The universe is a vast space

God knows when human beings will even reach its end

[lost hawk]

yea

[tough gull]

Who knows if there r aliens

And that is why Hinduism says that God is the ultimate truth, something that is beyond human capability

It is very wrong to say Hinduism is a polytheistic religion

In its fundamentals, it is monotheistic

[balmy folio]

there are many Idols

that hindus worship

[tough gull]

That's just on the outside

Most of these ‘Gods’ come from the Puranas. Many Hindus today consider the Puranas as folktales

Mahabharata and Ramayana are epics

They're stories with a moral, with something to teach

[plain berry]

Yours doesn't fight for its rights

[latent minnow]

My what?

[plain berry]

Your ass

[latent minnow]

...

[plain berry]

I know it needs help now

[whole beacon]

Mao zedong was atheist. Ur idol.
Yaaay

as a pro-Palestinian,i find u cringe.

[dense hollow]

comparing hamas with ass lol

[steel sail]

It makes sense

[dense hollow]

fr

[dense hollow]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAohP4VIyN4/

oleksandrovych.praha

European future⚠️

#європа #europe #usa #germany #italy #czech #poland #slovakia #belgium #france #switzerland #arabic #egipto #ukraine #spain #croatia #2024 #israel #portugal #real #truth #austria #hungary #tips #toptags #rek #100

Likes

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[thorny steeple]

I think most people know that Hamas only want mansions in Tehran.

Like the Palestinian authority that only wants to sell all the aid they receive for weapons

Not to mention the zionists pressuring the Israeli government to push for land at the cost of civilians.

Meanwhile the palestinians and israelis pay for all this selfishness

[dense agate]

wake up
flare is muted
today's a good day

[balmy folio]

hey

[dense agate]

waz gud

[azure brook]

[slate tide]

Not funny, that’s not how the serious thinkers debate

[feral river]

That’s the best situation to annex Gaza and West Bank for Israeli national interest and security

[slate tide]

I don’t blame some people of being atheist almost every Heavenly religions have a kind of distinction

[thorny steeple]

The palestinians would not want that, and a lot of israelis would oppose it

[feral thunder]

Where we can create a debate room?

[feral river]

You can’t have what you all wanted don’t you ?

If you really want something from the world, bring the forces in

And I promise, when you take over all of these things, nobody would dare to bother you again

Or being fucked all over the place

Survival for the fittest dude

Nobody will care your interest, only yourself

This is the world we live in

[lost hawk]

yeaa there is one god with many forms

[lost hawk]

i do believe in aliens

[tough gull]

Oooo

I believe there is a possibility

[lost hawk]

mee too. I was a fan of these things n mysteries. Keep researching stuff ppl found regarding them n other supernatural stuff. Ghosts n all

[trim anchor]

Hello everyone

[thorny steeple]

I believe there is the another earth which it’s located in the other galaxy

[ancient burrow]

sure man^^

[manic juniper]

I didn't compare it with marriage, just with child marriage

[lost hawk]

mee too

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[thorny steeple]

Where’s u from

The massive Cake

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/813161028460085282/1044311636997054464/B0363F1C-F28E-4C6A-92DD-C00BAB91F862.gif

[alpine vortex]

😵‍💫

[alpine vortex]

This seems to be very expensive.

[thorny steeple]

Nah it’s cheap

[thorny steeple]

Seems like a fruit cake in my opinion

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[thorny steeple]

Just imagine the cost of that!

Btw it is insane that most tiktoker move to rednote

But a lot of people call it “rednot” 🤣

[main bison]

chinese ?

[thorny steeple]

Yeah and Duolingo Chinese section of learning is booming

As a Chinese i never use that app

[thorny steeple]

Yeah they should pronounce it xiaohongshu

[thorny steeple]

That figures, it's funny the gun videos and testing the limits of the app

[thorny steeple]

I think America will ban all of Chinese apps

Since they has banned wechat, tiktok, etc

[thorny steeple]

With how slow congress gets I'm sure they might use an umbrella ban for anything Chinese

[thorny steeple]

is this a cake??

[thorny steeple]

WeChat user?

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[thorny steeple]

Fruit cake

[thorny steeple]

In my culture a 50 yr old man that wants to marry a 10 year old girl
Would be castrated immediately

My culture is Spain in the 1400s

[thorny steeple]

If a girl rather marry that old man?

What would happen if?

[thorny steeple]

She would be sent to a mental institution

[thorny steeple]

Gerontophilia is greatly disordered

[thorny steeple]

What if a girl(18 years old) marry a guy who is 28 years old , it would be considered unethical?

An 18 year old is an adult

They may marry who they want

It used to be that 14 and 16 year olds could marry their peers and even those slightly older

But this proved to be bad as teens still have underdeveloped frontal lobes and therefore make very hormonal decisions as opposed to logical and long lasting ones

[crude widget]

We need to raise the age to marry up to the mid 20s then. Might be wise tbh.

18 year olds are still developing frontal lobes as well

[thorny steeple]

Agreed 18 is the minimum
I think if people wait till they're 23 or 24 or even 25 for some of the later bloomers
If they do that the divorce rate would tank

[rancid grotto]

Finally a logical statement

After the discussion with flare 💀

[crude widget]

I think we stop interfering at the age of 18 because generally, we accept that once you reach that age, you are legally responsible for your own actions. You should be responsible enough to take care of your own needs. But this doesn't explain why other age limits are set to 21. Like for drinking and for smoking tobacco.

Let's just raise the age of majority to 21

[thorny steeple]

It would be for the best

[dense agate]

Weapons of Mass Diabetes

[void arch]

yet ,there are the reason for many ppl accepting Islam when they start seriously searching if what they have heard of is 100% accurate or just lies .

"يُرِيدُونَ أَن يُطْفِئُوا نُورَ اللَّهِ بِأَفْوَاهِهِمْ وَيَأْبَى اللَّهُ إِلَّا أَن يُتِمَّ نُورَهُ وَلَوْ كَرِهَ الْكَافِرُونَ" سورة التوبة آية:٣٢

[dense agate]

@azure brook ummm

[manic juniper]

https://tenor.com/view/n-trance-crash-bandicoot-crash-team-racing-nitro-fueled-crash-nitro-kart-ctrnf-gif-27530534

[dense agate]

watch how they support each other in a positive feedback circlejerking loop

[manic juniper]

If only it could be exploited to generate endless energy

[azure brook]

dealt

[dapper laurel]

I prefer Roman Republic

[dapper laurel]

insha'Allah

[little dune]

hello

[alpine dragon]

Hi

[little dune]

what are you talking about here

when are people grown up

depends some never others has to as early as possible

how is your day going

[hexed mauve]

Is there any native English speaker that I can talk on vc?

[thorny steeple]

Republican you're

[thorny steeple]

Me

[dapper laurel]

I'm for a great Roman Republic, those times were goated

[thorny steeple]

Indeed I'm just fascinated with the time of Roman Kingdom y'know

[dapper laurel]

Then you should read about Enea, and the myth of the birth of Rome, it's beautiful

[thorny steeple]

Noted, how's narew

[dapper laurel]

I don't know, I hope he's fine

[thorny steeple]

Yeah, me too

[upper peak]

@thorny steeple hello golden John 🌞

[void arch]

nowadays girls get pregnant at 9-10 years at western countries! difference is-Aisha married in a civilized way and today girls do behind the bushes 🤧
Aisha, before the Prophet proposed to her, was being pursued by Jubair ibn Mut`am, indicates that she was mature enough for marriage, according to the prevailing tradition at that time, if not, the Quraish people, who would never waste any chance to insult the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, would have found this marriage as a golden opportunity to pour on him rain of insults. Rather they found nothing wrong in this engagement, and they received the news of the Prophet’s proposal for Aisha as something usual, and even, expected.
Aisha was not the first case, for everyone was married at her same age that time.
Narrated Aisha: I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet visited us, both in the mornings and evenings.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Hadith 465
This is a hadith reported by her (RA), in which she clearly styears agothat she had already reached puberty when she was with her parents,long before she was married.

Though that is more than enough, here’s another:
Narrated Aisha: "When the girl becomes 9 years old, she has become a woman."
Jami at-Tirmidhi 1109.

This one Hadith single handedly refutes entire thing in a whole.
Now here is the another evidence -Aisha narrated “My mother intended to make me gain weight for me to (consummate the marriage with the Prophet) and send me to the (house of) the Messenger of Allah (saw). But nothing which she desired benefited me till she gave me cucumber with fresh dates to eat. Then I gained like the best kind of plump.”
Sunan Abi Dawud 3903, Ibn Majah Hadith 3324

So this is even more interesting evidence. Here we see Aisha herself was getting ready for the consummation. And her mother was even helping her. Which means that she had no problem and was mature in every way for the consummation.
Insights into their relationship, such as the fact they liked to drink out of the same cup or race one another, are indicative of a deep connection which belies any misrepresentation of their relationship.

To paint Aisha as a victim is completely at odds with her persona.

From her own perspective-There is no doubt that mother of believers Hazrat Aisha (RA) was very lucky to have the best creation of ALLAH SWT as her husband.

Aisha (ra) was the one who narrated the details of this love through numerous accounts in which the intensity of deep love between the two is quite evident. She used to describe the tenderness of Prophet Muhammad to her and the sense of care that he showed her. Here are some of the narrations:

Aisha (ra) would often seek reassurance from The Prophet (saw) that he loved her.
“How is your love for me?” she once asked.
“Like the rope’s knot,” he replied, meaning that it was strong and secure, and as the rope is pulled the knot gets stronger.
She was very pleased with his love, and many times after that she would ask, “How is the knot?” and he would reply: “Ala haaliha” meaning “The same as ever!”

Aisha RA once said,
“the women of Egypt cut their hands upon seeing Prophet Yousuf (AS), but had the seen the messenger of Allah (SAW) they would have cut their hearts out.” (shamail trimidhi)

Now imagine 1500 years ago and how different the women matured at that time! Back then, there was no school or education. A boy pretty much became a man when he was able to hunt animals and bring food home everyday and a girl pretty much became a woman when she could take care of the house. The fact of the matter is that it is well-known that people in the past would generally live a shorter life, therefore, back then, they matured quicker biologically as well, both physically and mentally. The average life expectancy at the time of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH, which is the 6th century, was 30-35, but as of 2020, its 77 years old! A 9 year old today is not ready for marriage, but back then, they were more than ready.

the application of modern standards to the past is more of an illogical fallacy called presentism

This is how mother of the believers Aisha bint Abi Bakr (ra) viewed her marriage with the Prophet Muhammad (saw) i.e. that of love, sweetness, gentleness and companionship.this is how mother of the believers Aisha (ra) felt about her marriage to the Prophet (saw). She did not feel oppressed or subdued, rather she was very happy and content; and what matters is how she felt not how some people 1440 years after that are feeling. As we say: “If husband and wife are happy and agree with each other, Priest can do nothing.”

Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mulaika: 'aisha said that the Jews came to the Prophet and said, "As- Samu 'Alaikum" (death be on you). 'aisha said (to them), "(Death) be on you, and may Allah curse you and shower His wrath upon you!" The Prophet said, "Be calm, O 'aisha ! You should be kind and lenient, and beware of harshness and Fuhsh (i.e. bad words)." She said (to the Prophet), "Haven't you heard what they (Jews) have said?" He said, "Haven't you heard what I have said (to them)? I said the same to them, and my invocation against them will be accepted while theirs against me will be rejected (by Allah). " (Book #73, Hadith #57)
If Aisha (ra) would be alive today she would curse you heavily

@latent minnow @rancid grotto

[upper peak]

Bro what does it mean nowadays and or in religion text ... It's a different , religious text tried to teach about life and humane societies isn't it as per you ? And even it's the ultimate truth bla bla...

You still don't have concise, and preach about religions bla bla..

[void arch]

who is talking about religion here ?!

[upper peak]

You

[void arch]

where?

[upper peak]

Of course.

[upper peak]

Qur'an verse , and comparing sayings nowadays bla bla..

[void arch]

do u know what that reply is for ?

[dapper laurel]

I read the first line of this shit and I have to ask you: what kind of weed did you smoke?

[upper peak]

Whatever the reply , why have to compare today's this that with Qur'an verse...you be a human being first,that's enough..

[upper peak]

Not him , but what he read since childhood and been brainwashed probably..

That could be.

[void arch]

if u dont know the subject of the discussion ,dont rush urself and respond from ignorance

[hexed mauve]

Can we all have some good serious conversation?

[dapper laurel]

This is the result when you talk to Muslims, you shouldn't think you are dealing with reasonable people

[upper peak]

Your Qur'an doesn't talk about climate change , AI revolution, human populations, consciousness, etc why ??@void arch

[hexed mauve]

True and let's leave it

[void arch]

look at this @thorny steeple

[latent minnow]

You cant prove god = cant use him as a reason to justify anything.

[hexed mauve]

I don't want to waste my time reading or talking about quran or some bullshit

[latent minnow]

"Santaclause said I could do this"

[dapper laurel]

Lol, this is the main argument in this chat

[hexed mauve]

Why does it has to be?

[upper peak]

I hate it so ,
Do not impose what you have in belief in others , please , just be singular like we all are humans that's it and try to dispute or discuss the keys aspects

[dapper laurel]

Because this chat has recently been invaded by Muslims and they are all quite fanatical

[void arch]

ur making a claim that the only supporter is the hadith in the case of Aisha age ,if u dont stick with it dont make the claim.

[hexed mauve]

Not so hard to ignore right?

[upper peak]

First tell him to not bring here Qur'an verse

And then only we can have serious chat or discussion

[dapper laurel]

Here everything is Islam-centric, so it's hard to talk about anything else

[void arch]

where did i do that?!.. my reply was about the Aisha RA age ,since they use our Hadith to establish their claim,they should be ready to accept the counter argument from the same source

hopefully u understand

[hexed mauve]

Mam we can't control what others say, it's best to ignore

[main bison]

hi

fun fact
Slavery is allowed in Islam

[dapper laurel]

Let's try to do so, do you have something to talk about?

[upper peak]

What ever they did , why do we have to discuss the same topic over and over ,
So you mean you can't think of anything on your mind yourself????

[dapper laurel]

Even marrying 9 year old girls

[main bison]

not only 1 but 4 9 years old girls

[void arch]

they are the ones who bring it ... before 100yr ppl never talked about it from many atheistic or non islamic background bcz it was common and the norm , but those ppl born last day they sleep and wake up on "Aisha married at 9" 🤡

[dapper laurel]

This is probably what Allah wishes

[void arch]

please mind ur business ..i didnt reply to u ,nor i called u ..

[upper peak]

First we have to control them , it's everywhere like every time and it's so disgusting...if someone spoke to be rational then they will say islamphobic 😭😭🤮🤮

[lost hawk]

indiaa n u?

[upper peak]

Garbage 🗑️😔

[void arch]

"we have to control them" what this sentence tend to mean ?!!!!!!!!!!!!

[main bison]

can i join

[upper peak]

Talk in a normal conclusion, be a conceptual not religion...

[main bison]

and still migrantes yo Europe

[void arch]

who are u to impose ur subjective ideals on me?!

yet claiming i impose my thoughts on ppl

said Anguya

very funny

[upper peak]

What they eat I Never get this , this is not going to get rid off , like never

[dapper laurel]

"I hate the western world"- Written from an apartment in the suburbs of Berlin

[formal pilot]

@dapper laurel do something

Lmao aren't you pretending to be Muslim on another server

[upper peak]

Go make another earth , go to Mars sir , please

[dapper laurel]

I have to pull some baddies

[upper peak]

Talk about islam there a lot 😁✨ happy happy happy ..

[dapper laurel]

Yes, that's why I'm totally crazy

[formal pilot]

Hell yeah, continue the chad Augustus blood

[dapper laurel]

Muslim larper in other servers

Western defender in the English hub

[formal pilot]

Europe is goated

All my homies hate merican politics

[upper peak]

And don't be so worried about death , first make life better , think about the next generation too what we are leaving for them.

@void arch

Place or countries have been displaced and scattered because of having belief or faith in one particular'' holy stone '' like wars in Gaza and Israel..

[thorny steeple]

This is halal

[upper peak]

People had enough food , shelter to live but still because of some faith or belief they have been in trouble and lost their lives!!!

Isn't this because of stories, a fictional story..rather than research and countering in real issues

??

[void arch]

im not worried about death . im preparing for death.

[formal pilot]

This sounds mad out of context, you can say I'm preparing for akhra

[upper peak]

Lol bro is neither serious, just don't get .

[formal pilot]

He's a good lad, always being consistent

Most of the time against my personal beliefs

[vocal quest]

Well why are people afraid of dying like shit just joined the army

[thorny steeple]

China

[void arch]

u have to judge the scripture not ppl ,having faith in God is not a necessary a reason for wars , 95% of most wars are not religious... and for the war on gaza its not as u want to see .. Judaism condemns the occupation of that land bcz they should not do it before the coming of the Masih .. not to mention that Zionism is an atheistic originated movement that claims some sort of God promised them a land when they reject his existence .

[vocal quest]

Yo lil

[upper peak]

Maybe , he could be , only possible if he could think out of his scriptures holy quran.

[void arch]

likewise

[thorny steeple]

Hello stray cat

[vocal quest]

I think you forgot why caliphate or crusader were created

[formal pilot]

Everyone is free to do whatever they want unless they're hurting someone, I'm strong supporter of freedom of expression

[void arch]

i love life ,but im not afraid of the idea of death .

[vocal quest]

Then join army 🪖

[thorny steeple]

[vocal quest]

Ni hao ma ?

[thorny steeple]

I am good thanks

[vocal quest]

Aah nice

[vocal quest]

Are u from Guangzhou?

Or fujian

Sichuan

[thorny steeple]

secret

[vocal quest]

Like your life

[void arch]

u have to read history and compare between the two ... just Salh dine al ayouby can give a great idea of the rules and laws of war in islam, crusaders they kill and erase any city or village they come across, while the muslims they fight in most historical cases they kill they fighter opponents.

[upper peak]

Whatever
You didn't learn to cooperate ,
You are opposing, also it is visible..
So religion ,having faith or belief brought any peace ??
So then why still not considered

[vocal quest]

You're that closed book when people are trying to read u just don't open

[void arch]

i dont need to.

[vocal quest]

Well both were the same they did invade the lands and killed people so they can spread the message of their prophet and God also protect people from false gods

[upper peak]

It's hurting already , they are blind faith..
Always in the same talk and had arguments..

This is not freedom

This is suppression and imposing others to be the same.

Why then ??

[vocal quest]

Why did Persian flee from Iran when conquest from caliphate started in Persia

[vocal quest]

They join police

[thorny steeple]

I thought ur Chinese as well

[vocal quest]

Yatjung yuhyihn wihngyuhn batagu

[upper peak]

They never talk about anything productive , like what's going on , what we need to do , for example climate to technology revolution and it's cause effect

Etc etc

[hexed mauve]

Do you believe in god?

[manic juniper]

January is religious talk season

[vocal quest]

Why believe in god who likes to be praise all the time

[hexed mauve]

True, I don't even believe in myself

[formal pilot]

Yeah we should eliminate all people who doesn't talk about technology and science etc, this way we'll get rid of 80% of the population in the world

[void arch]

yes having faith brought peace in harmony in the world in spain and palestine where the 3 major religions lived in peace in harmony for more than 1000 yrs and still in other places..
just look at what islam realy teaches and ull be fascinated ..

and opposing ur faith or ideals or ur morality doesn't mean i have to kill u or u have to do the same .. i respect u as well u do the same in accordance with no harm dealt to anyone.

[formal pilot]

They have the right to be whatever the want

[vocal quest]

If god exists he won't have a problem if I pray or not
Most of the important part of life is to live in fullest while walking on Right path

[upper peak]

Humanity is God for me.
History is my favourite subject..
History means the future , how it would be in the upcoming generation of humans , civilization, morals and values , ethics etc

[vocal quest]

From the birth to end u have u only so at least believe in yourself

[hexed mauve]

Lol

[hexed mauve]

Interesting, I'd like hear how history means the future from your perspective

[vocal quest]

Just say f..k and take chances even if you're afraid nobody is gonna remember u after 50 years

[formal pilot]

CCP should rule the world

[vocal quest]

Or Singaporean

[upper peak]

Only once in a lifetime maybe , lol

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martyrs_of_Córdoba
Very peaceful

[thorny steeple]

🔥🔥

[manic juniper]

It's not even true

[vocal quest]

Abrahamic faith never lived in harmony until they reached their golden age and fell into the dark ages

[hexed mauve]

Lol if it's funny how the god of islam gets angry n gives you hell if you don't praise/acknowledge him

[upper peak]

Like you have to learn homo sapiens, nexus , of ynh !
I love his vision and concerns..🙌✨

[vocal quest]

Sams for Jesus lol

[manic juniper]

To pretend that any of them ever were tolerant is ridiculous, maybe better than the alternative but peaceful? That's ridiculous. Not even most pagans and Buddhists were

[formal pilot]

I'm descendent of Neanderthals

[upper peak]

Yeah I had to check as if it is convincing or not 😁🤣

[manic juniper]

It wasn't even peaceful in Palestine, the Ottomans silenced Muslims, Christians and Jews alike

By the end of their empire the situation was completely out of control

[vocal quest]

These three religions are Chaos lol

Well they created the history with wars

I think most wars

[formal pilot]

Whole region was chaotic, they wouldn't survive without fighting

[manic juniper]

Eh idk there is ancient history, with many wars that we don't know of

[shy summit]

True

[manic juniper]

Some of them were driven by religion as well to an extent, some priest or oracle that pretended having visions of conflicts

[formal pilot]

It was all about power, they had wars within their religion

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1917_Jaffa_deportation
There is this as well, so much for peaceful Palestine

2k Christians+Muslims
8k Jews

[vocal quest]

Well it was chaotic but it became more when christian empire and the Islamic empire wanted to rule all over it why they were so peaceful during the golden age why suddenly they became hungry for war during dark ages

[thorny steeple]

Who still take the info from Wikipedia?

[void arch]

what that has to do with the discussion ... there is no documented historical evidence says a genocide was committed against other ppl .. this article state the excutionof some ppl under the islamic law "The Mālikī jurist al-Qayrawānī (d. 996 AD) distinguished between two kinds of insult: an outright attack against Islam, made by ill intent and therefore punishable by death according to the Islamic death penalty, and a simple declaration of one's own religion. In this last case, the Christian could not be held accountable for this offense. If one insulted Islam beyond the needs of his religion, he or she would have to be executed.[5] "

[manic juniper]

You can simply look it up
https://orientxxi.info/l-orient-dans-la-guerre-1914-1918/the-expulsion-of-the-jews-from-tel-aviv-jaffa-to-the-lower-galilee-1917-1918,1456

[upper peak]

And what they spread is like they can't have others faith or belief or they can't participate in others ideology, like that is sin or they are haram lol logic.

[manic juniper]

Where did I say a genocide took place? Lol

They should pay me to not insult some of you

[upper peak]

Cant cooperate and Tells as if peaceful...

Bla bla

[void arch]

what the point of u bringing a judicial operation ?

[thorny steeple]

Yeah i knew that guy you don't have to tell me
Iam arab and also My name is Jamal
So iam the one who knows those people

[vocal quest]

These People always cry for Palestinians but nobody thinks about western sahar which is facing the same thing because the country invading is Morocco

[manic juniper]

Because persecutions and executions took place perhaps? Saying it was peaceful is either naive or completely dishonest

[manic juniper]

True 🇪🇭

[dense agate]

morocco be doing the same thing yet no tears about it kek

@void arch why don't you go cry a river over your country's genocide ?

[thorny steeple]

do you guys know about 2012 ?, Many people speculated that this date would bring about apocalyptic events in 2012, Mayan civilization's prediction was that ,the world would end in 2012 based on Mayan calendar

[crude widget]

I think they may have been correct

[void arch]

im not saying all thing were perfect .. but im talking generally .

[crude widget]

That's about the time that the world started to crumble

[vocal quest]

Nobody gives a shit about african country because they aren't arab or white

[vocal quest]

Yes I watched in 2012 movie lol

[shy summit]

Generally it was not…

[thorny steeple]

💀 i wonder that so many people was believing that shit

[shy summit]

The issue at hand is that certain types of ideology are more prone to radicalization than others. Religion being chief-most among them.

[vocal quest]

Well they said something like the end of the world but it was their end of civilization

[vocal quest]

Everything will be fine if people correct their religious dogmatism part

[thorny steeple]

so true

[vocal quest]

How old are you

[shy summit]

The issue is the focus on anti-empiricism and anti-out-group sentiment these ideologies are prone to.

[thorny steeple]

50

[shy summit]

most all conflicts have been started worsened or perpetuated because of these attributes

[void arch]

first of all treating western Sahara like palestine situation is completely illogical and unrealistic .

before colonialism morocco has clear and strong evidences about his merit of sovereignty on that land ..

in western sahara there are a lot of Saharan ppl live under the Moroccan government.

the Moroccan government deals with the subject with diplomacy . and it extends to give them autonomous government under the Moroccan sovereignty .

[manic juniper]

Imperialism moment

[shy summit]

^^

kinda just proved a few principle issues of ideological radicalization

Same reason why religion and nationalism tend to go hand in hand

[dense agate]

"we deserve that land even pre-colonization"
"they are under our rule"
"muuh diplomacy so it's okay"

these same arguments can be used for israel yk that right ?

[manic juniper]

Imperialism is fine, you just need to have the piece of paper that says so

[dense agate]

but somehow it's different

[vocal quest]

You're reminding me about a japanese grandpa I met

[vocal quest]

Well it's pretty much the same for that land for which all three religions are crying

[dense agate]

if Israel got the siege wall around Gaza, then Morocco has the sandwall and landmines around what's left of Western Sahara

[tight carbon]

Good morning

[shy summit]

Ayoub. Please… take the L and move on

[simple drum]

Hi

[vocal quest]

Yo

How are you

[vocal quest]

Good evening

[thorny steeple]

Hi

[simple drum]

I’m okay and you ?

[manic juniper]

Here is the list of countries where it's easier to die on an hill

[vocal quest]

I'm also good
What language do you speak

[simple drum]

I’m Trina

English

[formal pilot]

More like tryna scam

[simple drum]

I’m from the United States

[vocal quest]

Where is faroe

[manic juniper]

Sunken

[lofty grove]

Hello

[vocal quest]

Ohh which state?

[thorny steeple]

welcome to the server trina

[dense agate]

🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪 🇹🇷 🇹🇷 💪

another classic Turkish W

[formal pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/wolf-dance-wolf-dance-wolf-danceing-danceing-wolf-gif-7632852274072373483

[vocal quest]

😭

[simple drum]

I’m in new jersey

Thank you

[manic juniper]

And the Balkan region is the highest on average, makes perfect sense

[vocal quest]

Ohh nice

[simple drum]

And you ?

[dense agate]

Baltics be having it lower yet they usually score the highest in su*cide, that's quite the dedication

[dense agate]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/522047142899089418/1064130147051122688/I_Love_Sweden_niga.gif

[formal pilot]

Never copy this gif's media link and paste in the chat, you're most likely to get muted 💀

[manic juniper]

Wdym that's a Korean word

[tight carbon]

Good morning, how are you, how old are you, do you work, study, hobby

[dense agate]

hahahahaha i keep forgetting it has that name

[formal pilot]

There's no way koreans speak Spanish

[formal pilot]

On a better note i love sweden, few days ago I was chatting about it with my homies

[vocal quest]

I just met a spanish person who speaks korean

[dense agate]

it's a nice place to visit, and a great one to get introduced to Arab culture as well

[manic juniper]

니가

[void arch]

that land was Moroccan ,Morrocans lived their under spanish colonialism..
its not about they are under rule its about some Sahrawines accept living under Moroccan sovereignty . and Morocco has clear and strong historical evidences prove his merit of that land. while isreal has nothing except "God promised us that land"

Morocco use diplomacy when they offer realistic offers to solve the problem peacefully under the international law. like autonomy proposal and extend to call for a vote to chose between morocco or Polisario government but this solution is unclear due to the difficulty to establish the needed ppl who should vote .

while isreal never existed as a state until by power and invasion of Palestine with the political and economical aid of the west, they commit a genocide several times .they dont care about international laws. and have only one rule "this land is only ours" .

the isreal invasion is a colonial imperialistic problem while the western Sahara conflict is a self-determination and and a post colonization problem .

[formal pilot]

(⁠・⁠o⁠・⁠)

[manic juniper]

Do we really need Minecraft here to explain how a country is born?

[formal pilot]

Dayamm that's a new kind

[manic juniper]

And that law without enforcement is the same as toilet paper?

[dapper laurel]

So proud of my country

[vocal quest]

Well I met a girl who speaks 14 language

[manic juniper]

That's my mum

[vocal quest]

Is she greek?

[manic juniper]

Unfortunately no, she isn't

[vocal quest]

Oh you're finnish

[dense agate]

well thanks for making it easy to reply to.
Morocco didn't control Western Sahara in 19th century (which is when colonizers like Spain came)
the rest of your points are slippery slope, since Morocco doesn't have right to that land, just an ex-imperial force crying about the new big imperial powers that made a twink out of it

[formal pilot]

Dayammmm i barely speak my native

[formal pilot]

Is she a teacher or something

[manic juniper]

No, but she lived in many countries and enjoyed language learning

[dapper laurel]

Does Neapolitan count as a language?

[manic juniper]

Yes

[dapper laurel]

I can say that I speak 4 languages on my resume

[manic juniper]

Calabrian is the one that isn't an actual language because it's divided in two varieties, one closer to Neapolitan/Campanian and the other to Sicilian

[formal pilot]

Dyamm that's really great

[dapper laurel]

Nabboletano

[formal pilot]

Guys would you rather have a big house or travel around the world?

[manic juniper]

😳 honestly neither, a big house is horrible because it takes a lot of resources to clean it all or to fill it with stuff

[dapper laurel]

Have a big camper so I can do both

[shy summit]

Please…

No…

[formal pilot]

Alright i won't say anything racist

[formal pilot]

[dapper laurel]

https://youtu.be/OWtQ7bmr1SE?si=T6HKfu3X-73J2K1T Paolo sizzi speaks a good lombardian @dense agate

[void arch]

i dont see any logical objection in ur respond ..it seems u have accepted that ur claim is fragile right ?..

ur claims that Morocco doesn't have right to that land is unrealistic ,bcz Morocco has a strong and historical documented evidences .. although Morocco still calls for diplomacy and searching for a realistic solution as i mention .

[formal pilot]

Today you had a long discussion with him, did you guys come to agreement?

[vocal quest]

But do people of western Sahara say, it's like israeli and Palestinians both telling their historical rights

[void arch]

isreal has no historical right make them eradicate the Palestinians and expelled them from their land .. isreal Palestine issue is an invasion and imperialistic movement.

while western Sahara issue is a self determination and post colonialism issue between same ppl they all speak same language ,same religion and same history. but with deff political views . Morocco dont want to lose his land while some Saharawin want self determination

[vocal quest]

Well both sides says same shit

Hard to believe who is right

[void arch]

it s not the same obv

reading history is a clear proof

[feral river]

REGIME BORN FROM GUNS - Mao Zedong

SURVIVAL FOR THE FITTEST

LAW/RULE WITHOUT ENFORCEMENT IS TOILET PAPER

those are my fav statements

pure truth

[void arch]

this sentence was a reason for many radical Ideologies that cause most of recent wars

Mincraft if was a leader would be a great dictator

should study politics

[feral river]

I don't see how recent war is relating to this rule of nature

[void arch]

ww1 ww2

[feral river]

if you don't like wars, just higher the price tag

[void arch]

i like wars only in games

[feral river]

if there was, then there must be still little pricy than other stuff

c'mon that's how market works

why you think people or regimes have to start a war if they have to pay a lot from it ?

but what if they are already paying that much to start a war, and they did it, why you think the price of war is above the price of peace ?

this is a business thing bro

[void arch]

im talking about how like statements that hold no objective nor logical scale encouraged ppl to such brutal actions during the past

[feral river]

countries doesn't give any shit to that ideology

[void arch]

war is easy but establishing peace is hard

[feral river]

well I mean superpowers, not some puppets caring that shit under their master nation

superpowers would just do what they want in a cheaper price

then if it's pricy to have a war, why not peace ?

if it's pricy to have peace, why not war ?

simple logics

[upper peak]

Ooh now you realise ?? 🤩🤣

[void arch]

did i call for war ?

[upper peak]

So bringing Qur'an Verse either doesn't bring peace

[feral river]

puppet would only do what superpowers allowed them to do lol otherwise they pay a price

ofc if they want to get independent from those superpowers, they got a lot to pay

[upper peak]

Then why did you brought 🤣

[void arch]

which verses do u mean?

[void arch]

who do u think the puppets are?

[upper peak]

Every time allah wallah you keep mentioned

[feral river]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_state

[vocal quest]

Why

[void arch]

are u mad at that ? without knowing what those verses state .. u just blindly hating things u dont understand

[feral river]

even if they gained independence in modern era, they can still be considered as puppets in many factors

formally got independence means nothing

[void arch]

ik what puppet state means but what country can be seen as puppet?

[feral river]

it means everything when they acted against those factors

[void arch]

i told u why just reread my replies

[feral river]

hummm hard to define, I can tell my own definition

[upper peak]

Yes of course , if you imposed some one and says only source of truth then of course I have the right to speak 😎

[void arch]

yes about 11 Africans countries still being colonized indirectly by france as France control their currency >> economy >> Political

[void arch]

when did i say that .

[golden mountain]

lets bring back gulags and concentration camps.

[upper peak]

Why ??

[feral river]

for example Japan got their golden era almost 2-3 decades ago, but that was ended by an agreement almost forced by the United States

and that directly caused economic collapse

[golden mountain]

to bring the world into control

lets bring back the good ol nazi soviet days

[upper peak]

I guess bro has a short memory loss 🤣

[void arch]

send me the agreement. i didnt knwo that , but ik that japan is more of a puppet to the US like the Philippines..

[upper peak]

No
I hope the world itself destroys and heals again

[golden mountain]

lol

[upper peak]

And next era not human , better other creatures

[void arch]

no i dont ,as far as i remember i do not impose the Quran on someone while i establish why the Quraan is the truth ,then its up to u to accpet

[golden mountain]

reading quran is haram

[upper peak]

Evolve .

[golden mountain]

haram

[golden mountain]

your roblox name is that of an old historian am i right?

[void arch]

yes it s a well known traveler, he is the first one to visit almost the known world

from Tangier

[golden mountain]

i see

[void arch]

bro got muted

maybe for this

some Japanese didnt like u bro hhah

[upper peak]

@void arch okay tell me what are halas , like a few activities..
For me for example I don't find killing some creature is halal to sophisticate one's own life so what can you say like it's a peaceful, really???
Like for pleasure anything....

[void arch]

well ,killing for pleasure to any creature even for food is foribidden in Islam.

but how u could define slaughtering of a sheep fo survival is immoral?

[upper peak]

Ah now here is a different story..

[void arch]

or why animals eat each others ?

from an atheistic background u cant say this is immoral!

[upper peak]

@void arch
Are you an animal , do every animal eat other animals ???
Does chicken eat meat or cow eat meat ??

[hexed mauve]

Why do you eat animals for then? To suffer or to get pleasure?

[hexed mauve]

Well chicken does lol

[void arch]

i eat them for survival ,bcz im designed to be capable of benefiting from that kind of food

[upper peak]

What is meant by conscious and ethical human beings then ?? A rational human being. . .

[hexed mauve]

Bru like you can't survive without meat

[upper peak]

No actually they are fed soya beans

And other seeds

[void arch]

according to that nothing is subjective not everyone see things the same

[deep leaf]

But bro vegetrian also survive without these

[hexed mauve]

Well chickens eats other chickens apparently

[deep leaf]

R u atheist bro?

[upper peak]

Lol
Better say you have greed , nothing like a peace mind .
You have plenty of food to eat but you choose violence wow and says most peaceful religion bla bla..

[upper peak]

A human being.

[hexed mauve]

@upper peak https://youtube.com/shorts/XXQT6KbEVVE?si=ZJukDFZRsH2554y9

[deep leaf]

Nice

[upper peak]

Lol
Bro decided that from one random video , chicken eats chicken..

[hexed mauve]

You can try it yourself lol

[void arch]

i could do but why i have to be imposed not eat meat ?! , add that altho scientific studies shows that a short vegan date is healthy but also for a long term studies see that has a bad consequences like deficiencies of some crucial vitamins and minerals not to mention that structural damage of bones and muscles .

[hexed mauve]

Well source please I'd like learn it aswell?

[void arch]

do u know calling ppl to a date based on only vegan is not realistic it s problematic ..what are u calling for is chaos and hunger.

[feral river]

I just got a conservation in that mute channel with nale

nothing more I was not being muted for that

[hexed mauve]

@upper peak just asking Are you Indian?

[upper peak]

Who the vegan faced the problematic or didn't find realistic , show me ?? Source or Articles ..

[void arch]

our produced amount will not be enough for all the world , the prices will increase .. and ppl will not be able to afford buying avocados and crucial vegetables that is needed to replace the amount of crucial materials needed to maintain a healthy body

thats why relying on just plants is problematic

[upper peak]

Have you ever studied that even because of adulteration in cultivation and over breeding of animals causing global issues , like first the human population and next is animal farming and industry..

[upper peak]

No , near India but not from india..

[deep leaf]

Nepali ig

[void arch]

https://medlineplus.gov/vitaminddeficiency.html#:~:text=Vitamin D deficiency can lead,and fractures (broken bones).

https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB12-HealthProfessional/#:~:text=of Vitamin B12-,Food,products [5%2C12].

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8746448/#:~:text=Previous reviews have indicated that,deficiency as these micronutrients can

https://www.saintlukeskc.org/about/news/research-shows-vegan-diet-leads-nutritional-deficiencies-health-problems-plant-forward#:~:text=Compared to the standard American,rates of depression and anxiety.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19279075/#:~:text=Am J Clin Nutr.,doi%3A 10.3945%2Fajcn.

[hexed mauve]

Okay cool

[dense hollow]

Clam down man dont be so proud

[deep leaf]

Yes but bro these type of research is for meat eaters also

[dapper laurel]

I was being ironic

[dense hollow]

Damnn good humour😭

[dapper laurel]

Mashallah to my humour

[void arch]

i agree that industry is problematic but do u agree that calling for global strict vegan diet is also problematic..

and here is ur argument : "ppl should avoid eating meat completely bcz the industry is bad "

u didnt solve the problem nor u give a reasonable logical solution.

[upper peak]

@void arch whatever deficiency is mentioned , it's neither in meat as well , that's because you kind of people don't want to learn global warming etc but after producing more and talks about Allah wallah beliefs only..lol

[formal pilot]

Wrong server

[void arch]

yes bcz both a strict vegan or strict meat diet is unhealthy ..i defend the normal balanced diet based on both meat and plants

[dapper laurel]

Definitely wrong server

[upper peak]

Come together in the ground and let's solve the issues then it could be , 95% animal cruelty we can save , can you ???

[formal pilot]

Are you a vegan?

[void arch]

why bring religion ?!.
i m against meat strict diet also.

[dapper laurel]

I might become one in the future

I would like to finish puberty first

[formal pilot]

Yeah that should be the way

[shy summit]

In other event the SCOTUS is upholding the TikTok ban

[dapper laurel]

Because the body needs as much variety of foods as possible to grow fully, and I would like to surpass my father in height this year

[hexed mauve]

Event?

[main bison]

hi
I support TIKToK's ban
Im also so happy i never installed tiktok in my life
This is one of my biggest achivments as well as twitter and snapchat

[shy summit]

I like TikTok, really no issue tbh.

[hexed mauve]

Goat achivement

[upper peak]

Because religion talks about peace and meat comes from violence..
Of course, no animals come to you to serve on your dinner plate.
You and we trapped them ,
How much they get frightened or tried to espace from thier life murdering..

[crude widget]

I'm proud of you. Do the same with all social media

[formal pilot]

Yeah good nourishment is really really important, forcing veganism to young people is absurd

[shy summit]

I limit my social media intake, doomscrolling doesn’t help.

[dapper laurel]

Yes, but I will probably become vegan because it makes you live longer

[formal pilot]

Tiktok ban seems to be a PR move in my opinion

If you want to collect data you can literally buy it

[shy summit]

It absolutely is a PR move

[formal pilot]

Wth I'd love to live a long healthy life, i won't be a hard core vegan tho

[void arch]

ur objection is based on emotional reaction ..

u have first to establish why eating meat for survival reason is immoral objectively ?

[formal pilot]

And it's a good one for sure

[hexed mauve]

Because it's not moral to kill other lives

[dapper laurel]

The only animal I will eat when I become vegan will be my cat, when it is about to die, I will eat it, I love it too much and I want it to be part of me

[formal pilot]

Isn't morality subjective

[upper peak]

And how Islam is so perfect and the ultimate truth..
Agree that islam or any religion is neither peaceful nor it about moral values and disciplines etc

[void arch]

plants arent alive?

[hexed mauve]

They don't have nervous system, blood n brain

[formal pilot]

That's wild, stop hanging out with Minecraft

[hexed mauve]

No, not subjective

[formal pilot]

We should start eating Sponges, f SpongeBob

[upper peak]

Do they sense , do they bleed or are they mammals , do they have offspring..lol

[void arch]

they are alive right ?! , then ur objection of killing animals for food isn't a logical objection nether they experience pain or not ...

Fun fact plant experience pain differently

[hexed mauve]

I don't watch that dumb cartoon

[upper peak]

Very irritating..😤😤😤😤😤

Goodnight 😤😤😤😤

I guess Allah wallah ate his rational mind

[formal pilot]

Vegans are muslims of new era

Let me eat whatever I want man

[void arch]

they experience pain definitely in different methods

they are a living creatures and that is enough to reject ur claim

[hexed mauve]

Bro turned into Jeffrey dahmer

[hexed mauve]

Not creatures

[dense hollow]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-cats-gif-10955612

[lost hawk]

oooo

[hexed mauve]

Who are you bro

[dapper laurel]

I like cats tho

[hexed mauve]

Catnibal

[formal pilot]

Saimon is cooking something

[dapper laurel]

Either I'll eat it or I'll display his skull in my room as a memento

[main bison]

Thanks mr ross

[void arch]

what are they ?..stones .
a living creature by definition is a creatures that breath, reproduce, grows, and has a nutritional system.. A living organism can therefore be defined as anything that has life, consisting of cells as its basic unit of organization

[thorny steeple]

yup

[hexed mauve]

Nah definitely Jeffrey fan

[dapper laurel]

I don't know him

[hexed mauve]

Good for you

[hexed mauve]

Imagine comparing plants to animals

[upper peak]

This means even if your nail grows and hair grows , if you cut them does they feel pain???

What kind of logic lol

[dapper laurel]

I feel pain when i cut my hair

[formal pilot]

You think veganism is morally correct
I think you can eat whatever you want

Doesn't this discussion prove that morality is subjective

[dapper laurel]

And my hair told me that it feels pain too

[hexed mauve]

Good point, Our hair n nails grow and is also not dead in his logic

[dense agate]

"logical objection"
that whether they take the diplomatic approach or not, it's irrelevant to the fact they are an occupier force, they don't rightfully belong there.
ICJ ruled so, even Morocco didn't hold control of it the century before it got colonized.
they are like any imperial occupying force and Israel, refuse to acknowledge their right of self determination, and having referendums.
you can throw all historical arguments you want they would serve nothing, right to self determination is king.
all other arguments are copy paste of the same stuff you criticize israel for, if double standard could kill, you'd be dead long ago

[void arch]

imagine u differentiating between things that living creature and preferring to eat some and abolish others

[formal pilot]

Your hair is a plant, it doesn't have sense

[upper peak]

Yeah okay..
You do without hurting or less hurt by yourself..
But see how the other living creatures have been exploited

[hexed mauve]

Well you can't decide what's moral lol

[formal pilot]

It took you this long to type this

[dense agate]

i was afk :(

[formal pilot]

How can you decide it then?

[dense agate]

and gotta always be bringing the milk

[formal pilot]

You're definitely white

[hexed mauve]

I mean his decision is cursed

[ashen mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1259553761739673611.gif?size=48&quality=lossless&name=bsfdancing_sine

[dense agate]

Long live Great Imperial Morocco

[ashen mortar]

whats white - black bro we all are human

[dapper laurel]

Lombard larper

[hexed mauve]

Then why does girls prefer bbc

[formal pilot]

I was legit planning to dive into a deep philosophical discussion about morality, after reading this statement, I won't waste my time

[formal pilot]

We all bleed red

Red salute

[hexed mauve]

Enlighten me mr. Wise

[dense agate]

now you're commie ??

[void arch]

ur comparing a part of a body to a whole living creature..it s a false equivalence

[formal pilot]

Yeah until I'm rich, this seems to be the way

[formal pilot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1259553761739673611.gif?size=48&quality=lossless&name=bsfdancing_sine

I definitely appreciate a mixed economy

Extreme side is always problematic

[dense agate]

with all it's infinite variants