🧠｜serious-chat

[prisma cipher]

You know, I was mad about western and Korean companies, and decided to buy china stuff

And it just normal, good quality laptop

[smoky pagoda]

Coffee ☕

[prisma cipher]

if they turn off google services, i think we'll have to buy huawei, because they have their own operating system. it's good that they were also sanctioned earlier, and now we're ready

[prisma cipher]

I bought that phone because it was first china flagman phone, and I getting curious what is their phones about. At that time we were no idea

[raven forge]

Choose one

Clever ummm

Mm bow with infinity enchantment...i see

[jade iris]

[lavish creek]

Bro literally trying to hook everyone

[lavish creek]

And how is it ?

[prisma cipher]

That one was meh

I mean it was flagman but compare to Samsung's or iPhones it was lame. But better than I expected.

Now I have no prejudice against Chinese phones. I had doubts about laptops.

I have some other china phones but not huawel since than

China 👍👍

120w charge is insane

[unique light]

https://tenor.com/view/baikal-seal-toba-aquarium-niko-nico-seal-nerpa-gif-27122734

[prisma cipher]

What do you think about the pager explosions in Lebanon?

[versed rain]

not humane

[versed rain]

redmi or xiaomi note 13 or 13

[prisma cipher]

looks like the beginning of a new phobia. a little bit of explosives is enough to treat people for now, and what's stopping you from putting it in a phone or a smartwatch

[prisma cipher]

You know I can't stop enjoying it

[lavish creek]

Criminal

[versed rain]

yeah a relative of mine also uses that phone.

[prisma cipher]

For me it's technological terrorist attack

[versed rain]

caused by israel

[lavish creek]

Likud is evil, there is no arguing

Hamas, Hezbollah and Likud deserve each other

[versed rain]

Because Israel blew up devices in the pockets of Hezbollah members.

and in public

[dense agate]

when you're so deep in the illusion you can't even tell anymore lel

[prisma cipher]

many people liked to go there for treatment, what if they put some explosives inside those bodies

[versed rain]

wdym

[lavish creek]

💀

[lavish creek]

Israel has one of the best medical centres in the earth

[prisma cipher]

Yes

[versed rain]

is it funny?

killing terroists in the public with exploding

[dapper laurel]

I actually support a primitive lifestyle since I read "Industrial Society and Its Future". I also wrote a letter to the author, but he didn't answer me because he committed suicide

[prisma cipher]

Yes

[versed rain]

killing innocents?

[prisma cipher]

What I said yes

[versed rain]

i still couldnt understand that which side u are kidding with

[lavish creek]

Many argue that there will be civil casualties any way

[prisma cipher]

I'm kidding about situation

Like if they do such things what else they can do

[versed rain]

because they exploded next to civillians

[lavish creek]

There were plenty of attacks on Israel like 7.10 before, without Israel's response

[versed rain]

this is not a right to kill civillians

[lavish creek]

So now Israelis argue if there will be victims any way we prefer it would be Gazians

[versed rain]

a lot of civillians died

[lavish creek]

I totally agree and I didn't say that's I think it's the right way to put it

[versed rain]

There must be military intervention in Israel, as well as in Lebanon and Iran.

[lavish creek]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

[prisma cipher]

It's scary, but the work of the Israeli intelligence services is impressive.

[versed rain]

we should make military operations to Israel, Iran, Lebanon.

[lavish creek]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Terrorist_incidents_in_Israel

[lavish creek]

So, as I said,

[versed rain]

Iran announced that if USA block death of the innocents, they might be USA's best partner

Iran said that iran is not in enemy position against usa

[lavish creek]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Danny_Katz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attacks_against_Israeli_civilians_before_1967

I'm not trying to justify what is happening in any way

We just have to see how Israel's Jews see that and why they elected evil like Likud

Jews in the 20th century believed in peaceful coexistence, but it always was Arab countries starting ward

Let alone all those military organisations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category%3ATerrorist_incidents_in_Tel_Aviv?wprov=sfla1

Look how often it's happening

Even after all, there are Arabs political parties, Arabs in the supreme court, Arabs schools and there are Jews who protest apart in the west bank etc

[versed rain]

I see what you mean, but it doesn't cause 40,000 Palestinians to die.

But both sides are guilty, but the power is disproportionate.

[lavish creek]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

#🧠｜serious-chat message

I acknowledged that several times

[lavish creek]

Guilty Hamas and Likud

Hamas more, if we consider events before Israel launched war in Gaza

[versed rain]

When there was no Israel, it was Palestine.

They fled from Germany

But America does not deliberately stop civilian deaths.

they act like world police but without any act maybe support killing civillians

turkish people turkey no longer trusts America and Israel, turkey wants to work with humanitarian countries such as Spain and Ireland.

[lavish creek]

Jews were centuries, as were Arabs. Under Ottoman rule, then British

Jews were even before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Roman_Empire

If you are using "Palestine" in that's meaning it's applying to Jews too

[lavish creek]

https://youtu.be/R5IIwCz2IsM?si=5181z4yITmYMUijY

The UN offers to partition the Palistane into Arab and Jewish states included into Israel only lands with Jewish majority, but Arab countries rejected proposal and started the war (and lost)

[lavish creek]

@dapper laurel can Italy claim Israel's lands ? What do you think

[lavish creek]

If you are not satisfied with modern Israel borders complain to Arab states

[versed rain]

But is everything as innocent as you describe?

[versed rain]

no

Because America is a state founded by freemasons.

and europe is puppet of usa

[lavish creek]

What ?

[dapper laurel]

These are lands that have historically belonged to us

[lavish creek]

Time to come back

[dapper laurel]

I actually claim all these lands

Plus Estonia

[versed rain]

yeah we can invade israel but how?

[dapper laurel]

Naval invasion

[lavish creek]

Bro doesn't care about Turkey at all

[dapper laurel]

We can simply erase them

[dapper laurel]

All Mediterranean people love the Roman Empire

I was just studying Latin

[lavish creek]

Are you sure about it ?

[versed rain]

You probably know masonic rituals and Rockefeller.

[lavish creek]

What this dude is talking about

[dapper laurel]

Pretty sure

[dapper laurel]

Are you really into these things?

You look like my fyp at 1am

[versed rain]

yes

[versed rain]

george washington is former of USA and freemasonry

benjamin franklin too

rockefeller says that we educate people to make them a slave

with their education system

and we see presidents and famous persons with black eyes. This is due to rituals performed with children's blood.

it means ulliminati

and Amon, Ra

[lavish creek]

He must be joking

[versed rain]

that's not a joke.

This is masonic rituel

[thorny steeple]

Why rappers are getting killed in America so much tho guys

[lavish creek]

It's a lie first of all

Secondly

[versed rain]

and we believe in that, jews look everyone who is not jew is a animal and slave

[lavish creek]

I have black eyes, you wanna say, that I drink children's blood ?

[thorny steeple]

Do u mean those ppl are slaves for jews

[versed rain]

i dont talk about colour of eye

[lavish creek]

?

[thorny steeple]

Hard to believe that

[lavish creek]

What does that mean

[versed rain]

<@&852814479569059840> spam

[thorny steeple]

U say that Bec u are jew

[versed rain]

im not jew

[thorny steeple]

Nah Jews don't like ppl

[versed rain]

it is masonic too

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/jew-dance-discord-dancing-jew-fancy-gif-21234441

[versed rain]

u can prove

[versed rain]

<@&852814479569059840> he just making spam

[thorny steeple]

I'm not

[versed rain]

so dont type stupid stuff!!!

[weary belfry]

@thorny steeple

[thorny steeple]

I don't type stupid staff it's good

[lavish creek]

Bro what is that

[thorny steeple]

Yep

[weary belfry]

Use this chat for the right purpose

[thorny steeple]

I do

[versed rain]

really satanic and masonic

[lavish creek]

Maybe you are too then

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/lol-anime-lol-shock-anime-shock-what-gif-24361978

[lavish creek]

How do I know

[versed rain]

It's hard to believe, but there is a lot of power above us that is using us as slaves.

and freemasony means that

[lavish creek]

Well why do they let knowledgeable people like you use the internet and share this knowledge?

[versed rain]

because we cant change anything

[lavish creek]

Ig all of them are Jews, right ?

[shy summit]

Oh boy here we go, freemason conspiracy theories. Sir this chat is for serious conversation…

[versed rain]

not about being jew

[shy summit]

Not conspiracies that go against the ToS

[versed rain]

i am serious

[shy summit]

That’s the sad part

Don’t look for the man in the shadows pulling the strings look at the people literally doing it in front of your face.

[versed rain]

I don't believe it sometimes either. But why they show a lot of these symbols to us

[shy summit]

You see meaning where there isn’t any dude

[versed rain]

maybe

Best wishes to everyone and the world. We hope that civilians on both sides of the Israeli-Palestinian war will not die and that the war will not continue.

[shy summit]

Well duh

[lavish creek]

All of them are under Jews then, right ?

[shy summit]

Ffs

Can we drop the ‘Jews Control the World’ bs?

[versed rain]

maybe. I dont talk about innocent jews.

[dapper laurel]

Well well well

[lavish creek]

My own dominion is Italy actually

[versed rain]

By the way, do Jews support Netanyahu?

@lavish creek, u said that u are jew. I ask to u

because u can know it

[versed rain]

?

[lavish creek]

Do Turkish people support Erdogan?

[versed rain]

He said he was Jewish, and I asked him an innocent question.

[dapper laurel]

[versed rain]

why are u so serious nale?

[lavish creek]

Yes, only I can, it's hidden knowledge, you know

[versed rain]

around 40 percent

[dapper laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-batman-the-joker-why-so-serious-gif-14263650074740919861

[lavish creek]

But he is the head of the state

[dapper laurel]

I felt it from miles away

[versed rain]

yeah but he won the elections

[dapper laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/heath-ledger-joker-gif-9535566

[versed rain]

with a very small share.

[lavish creek]

Here you go

Now replace "Turkish" with "Jewish"

[versed rain]

i am talking about nowadays, not about election time

[prisma cipher]

I'm curious about something else. They showed terrorists how to make terrorist attacks, I wonder if it's hard for a terrorist to reproduce this. Previously, no one would have put explosives in a phone because one explosion one people, but if there is a technology to blow up 1000 phones at the same time, it makes sense

[lavish creek]

You can draw the same line

And I'm European actually, not Israeli

[versed rain]

i really were not know that. So jews dont support netenyahu yeah?

[lavish creek]

Some do some don't

[versed rain]

I get it, but what about the killing of civilians?

really i am asking it innocently

i cannot find it from media

[lavish creek]

Bro only an evil person would support that

#🧠｜serious-chat message

[versed rain]

ok

in addition

wdu know about red heifers?

[versed rain]

ai photo but shared by netenyahu on twitter

[prisma cipher]

I read a Russian analyst who predicts an Israeli invasion of Lebanon, it's interesting to see if he right. Because the don't just blow up a lot people, they destroy communication

[versed rain]

and red heifers meaning of invoking the messiah and the demolition of masjid al aqsa and the construction of solomon's temple in its place.

in jewish that i heard

why netenyahu shared it?

[lavish creek]

Bro ask him

[versed rain]

But that's what it means, isn't it?

i am asking it to u as a stranger of jewish

[lavish creek]

I don't know

[versed rain]

see u

[lavish creek]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

Bro literally killed me

[smoky pagoda]

Crossbow

[raven forge]

Why??

[smoky pagoda]

Zionists support. Some jews are Zionists some aren't.

[smoky pagoda]

Why not?

[raven forge]

I'm asking for a reason

[versed rain]

i dont kill civillians like someone

[signal talon]

hi everyone

[smoky pagoda]

What were you even talking about

[smoky pagoda]

Looks cooler

Coffee ☕

[smoky pagoda]

https://tenor.com/view/daryl-dixon-norman-reedus-neco-reiz-gif-19956445

[raven forge]

Have some coffee

[smoky pagoda]

Coffee ☕

[lavish creek]

Like who

[raven forge]

[versed rain]

kanye west(!), sure genociders

[zenith tartan]

is illuminati real?

[versed rain]

yes illuminati is real

it proved at the past but still works

[zenith tartan]

was 9/11 conducted by osama bin ladin or Al Qaida/

?

was he a terrorist?

[versed rain]

yeah they are terrorists

[dapper laurel]

That crazy guy came out with another experiment

[main bison]

9/11 was bad

[dapper laurel]

Coke experiment 🥼🧪

[main bison]

im sure the real matrix owners dont call themself such as illuimati
It was just a silly religious cult back then

[lavish creek]

Imagine if I said something like that

I don't understand anything

Let's talk about something else, okay. After the Gaza war it's let's say understandable

#🧠｜serious-chat message

But why so much anger and resentment only if it's Israel or a European country? China is removing mosques and building toilets instead

India is removing mosques and building Hindu temples, why are you guys not protesting the same way ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demolition_of_the_Babri_Masjid?wprov=sfla1

[lavish creek]

https://www.wionews.com/world/chinese-authorities-demolish-mosque-in-xinjiang-build-public-toilet-321313/amp

[quasi frost]

In the event of a global existential crisis wherein the survival of the human species is in jeopardy, to what extent can ethical frameworks such as deontology, consequentialism, and virtue ethics be harmonized when formulating decisions that may necessitate the violation of individual rights or the perpetuation of systemic inequalities in the interest of ensuring long-term species survival? Furthermore, how should these moral quandaries be approached, taking into consideration the potential for intergenerational harm, the ethical obligations toward non-human life, and the imperative of ecological preservation?

[zenith tartan]

what's this?

[lavish creek]

Why 😭😭😭

[smoky pagoda]

Who's shalom?

[prisma cipher]

It's greeting

[smoky pagoda]

In Hebrew?

Shalom aleichem? Right?

So ironic you know the word has same roots and is same in pronunciation as the greetings in Arabic which is Salam alykom

Both having the same meaning as well may peace and the blessings of God be with you.

[vivid bolt]

hi

[main bison]

R u taiwainese?

[tranquil shell]

?d resentment

[main bison]

if u go woke u go broke

[shy summit]

Nah woke states subsidize non-woke ones

[main bison]

elon musk aint woke tho

i wanna make a video explaining the things i dislike and publish it in 2050
People now don't understand

[whole beacon]

Hi cutie pie

[cold silo]

is this a serious chat

[minor charm]

yeah

[cold silo]

hi broski

[minor charm]

very serious

hi

[lavish creek]

They both are part of Semitic language family

[quasi frost]

im not

do i looks chinese tho?

[quasi frost]

serious

[leaden crane]

You look very italian

[main bison]

absolutely
But i think ur indonesian

[main bison]

leave me alone

[quasi frost]

thats the exact one

[main bison]

do u know chinese ?

[smoky pagoda]

Yes I'm well aware.

In both the name of the God is also Allah.

The same pronunciations the same roots

[dense agate]

lel

[main bison]

IRAN MENTIONED?

[dense agate]

yes, Terroristan is mentioned

[whole beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/no-bugs-bunny-nope-gif-4095597578532971838

[lavish creek]

You never know

Look how many proxies they have in the middle east

One day there will be the free visa policy between Persia and Israel

[turbid ivy]

Quick question, is serious chat allowed for religious discussions and debate?

[lavish creek]

No

[smoky pagoda]

Yes

[smoky pagoda]

@turbid ivy he is wrong

[wet cliff]

Hello friend

[smoky pagoda]

You can talk about anything as long as it's serious.

[lavish creek]

No I'm not.

[smoky pagoda]

Hello

[smoky pagoda]

Yea right 🆗

[wet cliff]

How are you

[smoky pagoda]

Doing well

[smoky pagoda]

No one gonna stop you.

[lavish creek]

I will.

[shy summit]

I mean you should probably keep it to Politics and Religion. Transcendental isn’t a good place to debate, it’s more a place where people preach.

[dense agate]

where were those proxies when Hamas leader was killed only couple of hours after meeting the supreme leader of Iran

[turbid ivy]

Lol

[turbid ivy]

Yeah, thanks

[dense agate]

i've honestly seen more talks about genetics here more than any other topic

[shy summit]

That said if you’re just trying to use religious discussion as a means to bash one group in particular I would advise against it.

Too often people here have attempted to use it as a guise to attack people as a whole rather than arguing the doctrine.

I’ve personally had to step in when the convo strayed into general attacks rather than a conversation

[smoky pagoda]

We'll see when that happens

[smoky pagoda]

[shy summit]

I haven’t seen much genetics but I’ve seen foreign disinformation agents in here.

[lavish creek]

We are trying to figure out who is true Aryan is

[smoky pagoda]

Seriously bruhhhhhhhhh

Coffee ☕

[smoky pagoda]

What exactly you want to debate about?

[lavish creek]

So far one true Aryan here is me .

[turbid ivy]

Nikah Halala

[lavish creek]

https://tenor.com/view/arno-breker-gif-9563002777114138520

[smoky pagoda]

Ye what about it?

[dense agate]

hmmm, i feel like it would be difficult to draw a clear line here, since criticizing a set of beliefs or a religion can easily be taken as offensive or as an attack on specific groups, especially since these beliefs are almsot always tied identifiable communities

[shy summit]

Judging scripture is one thing

[dense agate]

something something minecraft, something something china

[shy summit]

Making an argument with the expressed intent of the subtext saying “X Religion’s followers are unethical degenerates” is another

[lavish creek]

Do you really think our Chinese friend is an agent ? Lul

[shy summit]

The point of a conversation is to understand each other, its another when you go into the conversation with the expressed intent of not listening but fighting

[wet cliff]

Hello friends

[shy summit]

I never specified who. XD not Mine lmao

[turbid ivy]

Do you know what it is

[smoky pagoda]

I do but not on the level that I can debate someone on that topic lol

[shy summit]

From what I understand its a process of divorce and remarriage

[turbid ivy]

I see. What's your thoughts and understanding on nikah halala

[smoky pagoda]

I don't have the knowledge to answer that question

[turbid ivy]

I have wrote something on it
https://nobuyubu.wordpress.com/2024/04/29/nikah-halala-one-night-stand/

[smoky pagoda]

Yea shorten it and tell me

[shy summit]

Perhaps we can do away with the denigrating imagery

[turbid ivy]

You can watch this video https://youtu.be/B6u60UVr4Sk

[smoky pagoda]

Bruh it's 3am dude

[turbid ivy]

Oh 🤨

[smoky pagoda]

My mother will kill me

If she hears a sound

[turbid ivy]

Take some rest bro

[turbid ivy]

[smoky pagoda]

Yea I did I was sleeping 😴

[shy summit]

From what I understand @turbid ivy its an extremely controversial practice even inside Islam.

[smoky pagoda]

7pm till 1am

So my sleep is done

[turbid ivy]

Yeah, I guess

[shy summit]

Not exactly a norm that represents the whole of the society.

There are equally controversial practices in western society too, we all have our own whims of malpractice

[smoky pagoda]

Tell me the reference

In the Dms

I showed you the hadith.

[lavish creek]

You can't call it islamic

Sunni scholars don't recognise it

Temporary marriage is recognised by some Shia, and it's not exactly Nikah

[dense agate]

not that I agree with this, but this is a cheap attempt at mockery, nothing was explained thoroughly or with proper context, misrepresenting both the law and completely ignoring current practices

[regal nimbus]

they really take serious chat seriously

[lavish creek]

Sorry, but it's not the way articles should be written

The website is mostly mocking and totally about author interpretations of some excerpts

I have seen similar channels of Christian fundamentalists before tbf, but the writing style was better, as well as bibliography parts were huge

[feral river]

I would say a freaking loser doesn't deserve anything

0-4

worse than my Yasuo

why they didn't surrender yet

[feral river]

do you think you still have to practice the moral being when your personal security is threatened ? if everyone do so, humanity is already done.

moral is one of the most successful weapons in the society that used for regulate other people to expand your interest, rather than a lock to limit yourself

[feral river]

and back to this commonplace: Law/rule without enforcement is a toilet paper.

[static pivot]

@feral river

Minecraft

Can u open a ticket

[feral river]

yo sup

[feral river]

for what

[static pivot]

For anything

In server

I wanna check something

[feral river]

well crap is that okay ?

[shy summit]

It seems obvious to me, and to others that this blog is less about teaching than you might have intended.
From the image that is posted here, to the fact that your homepage only mentions Islam, and only to mention things like rape? I question why you came to talk about this when you clearly had no interest in a conversation but instead came to make backhanded insults disguised as expert testimony

[static pivot]

Nvm its done

[manic juniper]

It's a weird website

[feral river]

cool

[manic juniper]

When other beliefs live rent free in your head maybe it's better to change priorities

[feral river]

btw it's the first day in this month I awake at 8AM

can Chinese be deemed Aryan ?

[manic juniper]

I'm not Aryan

[feral river]

I wonder why does it matter to be an aryan ?

maybe 1% black ?

[manic juniper]

So are the Estonians, they planned to exterminate 80% of them

[feral river]

I'm 1% black

[manic juniper]

Germany didn't plan anything in Finland because there was no way to occupy us

The only German that was fanboying over Finland was Himmler

[feral river]

but you guys really joined Axis against Soviet Union

[manic juniper]

We also fought the Axis in the Lapland War

We fought on all sides

[feral river]

I just curious why did not Soviets occupy the entirety of Finland in the end of the war ? they have that capabilities

they even have a plan to create a "People's Republic of Finland"

[manic juniper]

They didn't dislike all Slavs, they thought that some Slavs were Slavicized Germans that needed to be "converted" like most Czechs, many Poles, some Ukrainians, maybe very few Russians and Belarusians too

They weren't against stealing Polish children and giving them to German families

[manic juniper]

They didn't lol Stalin had plans to get all of Finland, if he didn't there was a good reason

Ukrainians are East Slavs, they thought that most weren't suitable but some were

[feral river]

you mean Russian-Ukrainians ?

[manic juniper]

It's the same for Croats, they are South Slavs, many joined the Axis thinking they had some Germanic heritage

[feral river]

or people origin from Kiev Rus

[manic juniper]

They only starved Russians, I don't think they set up camps in Russia to kill them

The only camps they established were with the help of Finland in the northwest but that was to hold POWs and to exchange them

I don't know what's the actual nazi definition of Aryan, since they used Germanic, Latin, Aryan, Hyperborean, Caucasian interchangeably

[feral river]

honorable Aryan for Japanese

they are already independent

but Stalin want to subjugate the entirety of Finland and establish a puppet government

[manic juniper]

no that was the case between Latins (Italians and Romanians, and technically Albanians that had to be Italianised) and Germans. The Poles and Czechs were supposed to be Germans that had to be converted to German culture

Latins were deemed inferior to Germans, but they were deemed closely related and allies

Slavs as a whole, but individually it was different

That was the entire motivation behind the children kidnapping

You wouldn't convert a "subhuman atavic" child to German if they had those features

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_children_by_Nazi_Germany

Polish, Czech, Ukrainian, I doubt they did this in Russia but it's possible too. There is a possibility in the Baltic countries as well

I don't remember who said this, but a German officer expressed his opinion on Czechs saying that some of them were more Nordic than Austrians and Bavarians

While some Czechs weren't recoverable because of their "m*ngoloid" traits

Nordic, he referred to blonde hair and blue eyes, typically Germanic faces

Without traits like round faces or darker hair and eyes

It was very based off phenotypes and appearance, it wasn't scientific in nature

The distinction between Latin and German in the world of Aryans/white people was made to give Italians and Romanians their own pieces of Europe

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Axis_(World_War_II)

There was a pre-WW2 iteration of this with almost the same countries being part of it

It depends on the studies, I've seen one on Transylvania that showed significant influences

One of the hypotheses is about Romans killing so many Dacians and settling occupied Dacia explaining why the Dacian language became a minority

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Dacians

Romania looks quite diverse, Moldavians and Bukovins are unlike most other Romanians from what I've seen irl but could be an anecdote

It seems consistent with the Free Dacians surviving in modern Moldavia while the rest of Dacia was occupied

Normal almost everywhere in Europe

[feral river]

ngl one of his racist idea is from the american history of cleaning indigenous people

he really believes even US can conquer all of those land from indigenous indians why he can't create a germanic state in eastern europe ?

but there's a huge difference between Soviet Union and the indigenous indians

a real state practiced full mobilization, mass production of tanks, fighters, with a mighty army under central government

[manic juniper]

I don't think it's easy to quantify racism, they have the darkest humour in the world but that doesn't necessarily equate to racism

It's at the top of some polls about racism

Why

[thorny steeple]

in argentina what?

[manic juniper]

They seem to be some of the least racist unless it's a Moroccan saying something against LGBT

Spaniards are the only ones I've seen in Europe that actively hate their flag and disrespect it, obviously not all are like this but many are

I won't say who I consider the most racist Europeans because it'd feel discriminatory, but they are the only Europeans I've seen that not only hate most of their neighbours, but the only ones that hate Europeans living on the other side of the continent as well. That's weird

[dense agate]

since when Morocco is part of the "West" lel

[manic juniper]

I was talking about Spaniards there

[dense agate]

I mean to be fair, i think there is a mutual exchange there, I've met couple Argentinians who said they were constantly being called "boludo" by Brazilians online

[manic juniper]

One could argue that Spaniards are actually hiding their true power level, and that hating Moroccans in that particular situation is just proof of that hidden power level

But this means that the actual power levels of Europeans are unknown to us

[dense agate]

their inner reconquista legacy lives on

but I don't think there is much hatred between the two, at least in recent times. unless it's some Spanish anti-immigrants right winger, they do be chilling

especially as long as those 2 Spanish cities, Western Sahara or maritime waters are not the topic.

[feral river]

Morocco need more democracy 🦅

[raven forge]

Morning with bread or morning with pork

[manic juniper]

A lot of people don't express their racism until they feel justified to do so

[feral river]

people used to find an excuse to fight against each other for their interest

[manic juniper]

Honestly I don't need excuses to destroy mammals, they are inferior

[feral river]

fight for democracy, fight for god, fight for humanity, fight for anything

but fight for yourself is the real one

they don't say it because it's immoral or something but they do so

I fight for myself ofc I don't think I need other excuses to justify it

I'm a selfish capitalist

that's why I don't give a shit when someone says oh this is for humanity or something that's a crap

who the hell will care that shit

[manic juniper]

I like sleeping with my handgun nearby

[feral river]

me too although I don't own a handgun

[dense agate]

you're being cynical, there are those who genuinely believe in certain values, ethics and human dignity. Not everyone is self oriented, and even if you were self centered, it still makes sense to take a collective that puts interests of others next to yours in some cases

[dense agate]

but aren't they also sentient beings

[frosty field]

Fighting for God is crap but fighting for yourself is good? That's silly...

[dense agate]

How so ?

[frosty field]

Psalm 127:1

"Unless the Lord builds the house, the builders labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the guards stand watch in vain."

You can fight for yourself all you want, but God ultimately has authority

If you want to fight your battles alone, without God, you'll certainly lose them

[dense agate]

but these statements come with the presupposition that god does exist

[feral river]

so you don't fight for yourself then ?

[dense agate]

if someone doesn't believe in such entity, then fighting for god is meaningless

and why god needs us to fight for him ? is he not the all powerful

[feral river]

nah bro I do believe if there's someone really don't fight for themselves, they are died because of natural selection

survival for the fittest

[dense agate]

what do you even mean by fight for themselves ? we no longer live in the feudal era, you don't have to spend all of your day collecting food

[feral river]

but we do fight for ourselves in other fields, ideologies, religions, traditions, even some crap

we all mixed into this society to find a way to preserve our own interest

we have a capitalist market to compete with other's business

[dense agate]

bruh, you're talking about it from a collective level, like a state or society, an individual can't really make much difference

[feral river]

even we have a peace world based on nuclear deterrence

[feral river]

not really if you don't care about your own interest in some cases

it doesn't make sense

[dense agate]

i mean every state is looking for it's own intersts, nothing new

[feral river]

individual do so

[frosty field]

I wouldn't say 'fight' is the right word. I'd say to live your life FOR him is a better way of saying it

[feral river]

who the hell will live for something doesn't exist

[frosty field]

Depends on what you classify as fighting for myself...

[feral river]

what a crap

[dense agate]

yes, but the individual is not an extension of the state, that's why such things aren't present that much in places like China that have a socialist collective mindset, the individual is pretty much irrelevant

[frosty field]

Believing in God doesn't mean you don't do anything in your life because you think he'll do everything for you

[feral river]

yeah it's pretty irrelevant but it doesn't make sense if an individual doesn't defend itself

[frosty field]

You can't make that claim without proof

[feral river]

You can't make that claim without proof

where's your soild proof of something exist ?

[frosty field]

You're making the statement he definitely does not exist

[feral river]

your rhetoric book ?

I really wonder if I can make it

[frosty field]

I never made any statement, I just said that in my worldview he does, therefore I answered you the way I did

[feral river]

or every writer are able to make it even it's not more interesting than some internet novel

but who the hell will really believe that ?

[frosty field]

That's simply not true

[dense agate]

you're aware the burden of proof lies on the person claiming that god exist, right ?

[frosty field]

No, the burden of proof lies on the one making the definite statement, and I never made one

[frosty field]

So I'm looking forward to the proof of Him not existing

[feral river]

is this a statement ?

[dense agate]

you've already made it, you presupposed god existed in your own statement

[frosty field]

No...?😭

[frosty field]

Because I was explaining you MY point of view

[dense agate]

if you say "fight for god" you've already presupposed god exist

[feral river]

it's you mentioning him not me

and you are asking proof of he doesn't exist

you didn't even proof he exist lmao

[visual slate]

who is he

[frosty field]

You said fighting for Him is 'crap' and you said 'something that does not even exist'

[frosty field]

God

[feral river]

I said it's a crap yeah for the statement made by someone

can I say fight for her ?

do you know what her is ?

[frosty field]

You can say anything you want to say go ahead

[feral river]

not required to say anything to a crap

[frosty field]

I was just answering you from my own POV without making any positive or negative claims

If you want to make a definite claim then back it up with solid evidence, or else don't make the definite claim

🤷‍♂️

[dense agate]

you've asked us to prove the negative, the non existence of god lol

[feral river]

I already proved my statement and your way to explain how I didn't proof is a false claim.

that's what I have already done

[frosty field]

Yes, because she said it's "Crap"

[dense agate]

are you aware this is a fallacy ?

[frosty field]

That's a definite claim, therefore there should be proof

[frosty field]

How

[feral river]

you should aware that's what you started to say 'him' which you didn't explain

[dense agate]

burden of proof fallacy, and also asking to prove the non existence of something

[feral river]

then I asked you what if I say her you said nothing

you reponded with nothing

that's not even an analogy

what can I say then lmao

a real crap ?

[dense agate]

no much difference than asking us to prove that there isn't a rooster looking down at this chat from a monitor somewhere

[feral river]

I just don't get it when he started mention it and ask me for proof

😭

it can't be worse like this

if someday I had religiousphobia don't blame me my experience is just too bad

woah crap

[frosty field]

Dude... Burden of proof means the one making the claim has to support their claim with evidence.

I simply gave my POV on the situation of fighting for oneself, I made the presupposition He does exist (because it's MY POV), without directly arguing for or against it.

The other person shifted the point of contention (when they called God 'crap' and non-existant). At that point, the burden of proof would be on anyone making a definite claim about God's existence or non-existence. (Something I did not do, because I never made a definite claim)

Also, burden of proof fallacy means that when I have the burden of proof, I shift it onto the other person for no reason and I say: "Prove me otherwise, and until that I'm right!"

I have never even HAD that burden of proof because I never made a positive claim FOR God. I simply explained my worldview.

Hope this helps 😁

[dense agate]

if you're still asking for for someone to prove the negative, you're still in the wrong.
asking "prove that X doesn't exist" is unreasonable and logically problematic, if you don't think so go ahead and take that rooster analogy i made and try to prove it.

[frosty field]

Because you made the definite claim that He is non-existant. If you make that claim, the burden of proof is on you.

I never claimed He did or did not exist, I simply explained why I believe that fighting for oneself WITHOUT God is pointless.

[feral river]

🤣 let's talk about him again

[dense agate]

" I never made a positive claim FOR God. I simply explained my worldview" does this seem logically consistent with you ?
that statement you made comes with the presupposition that God exists, if someone says "god is good" they inherently make the claim that not only god exists, but he is also good.

[feral river]

nah burden of proof is not on me since 1st, you mentioned it first, 2nd, you asked for a proof, 3rd, why would I need to proof a negative existence ?

doesn't make sense at all

when you saying your worldview or something crap like that it's not a conversation

[dense agate]

again, take a second and try to prove a negative, prove that there isn't an invisible cup of coffee on your desk.

[feral river]

it's a propaganda thing only repeat some crap

did it reveal what you are trying to say ?

[dense agate]

it's as if your whole belief on god would shatter the moment you try to prove his existence, so all you can do is stall and avoid it for as long as possible

[thorny steeple]

Till you wonder why I'm still doing it

[frosty field]

That's actually very consistent.
We were debating an entirely seperate topic, in which I was operating within my own worldview. I was sharing my point of view, and never made a claim about his (non-)existence, since that wasn't even the topic of discussion.

Also, if you make a DEFINITE claim, it means you are ONE HUNDRED PERCENT sure that he does not exist. If you make a claim like that, you better back it up with proof. If not, then it is not a topic you can make definite claims about.

I understand your rooster logic and it is consistent. However, if I make a definite claim about that rooster, you asking me to proof the rooster is NOT there is completely fair. Burden of proof is on the one making a definite claim.

[dense agate]

stop hiding behind "i was just sharing my point of view ", you made a statement that already came preloaded with presuppositions, which by itself is literally a claim.

There is no such thing as a definite claim with absolute certainty, although ideally a person should backup their claims but when it comes to proving the negative it's problematic if not impossible, thus in discussions the burden of evidence correlates with positive claims.

and i like how you said you understood the rooster analogy but completely missed the point.

[frosty field]

I'm not hiding behind anything brother. Presupposition within a worldview framework doesn’t imply a direct assertion or claim that requires evidence in this particular discussion. It is entirely seperate.

[feral river]

yeah yeah yeah me too

so why ask me for claim then

[dense agate]

it's like that because you said so ?

[feral river]

it's just the worldview framework doesn't imply a direct assertion

that's what you have said and you asked me for proof

LMAO you are done

[dense agate]

you're either a troll stalling for the heck of it, or completely and utterly clueless

[frosty field]

Because you called it crap and said it FOR SURE does not exist. If you make a strong assertion like that, it is entirely fair to ask for proof.

Every professional debate setting will tell you that's fair.

[feral river]

what's a crap I'm saying ?

try to find it

LMAO

[frosty field]

If there is no such thing as a definte claim with absolute certainty, then perhaps the other person shouldn't make a definite claim about God's non-existence (just like I have never said he definitely DOES exist)

[feral river]

remember, it's just the worldview framework doesn't imply a direct assertion

that's what you claimed bro

[dense agate]

at this point it's basically a trap game, waiting for someone to say "X doesn't' exist" to hold them within the dilemma of proving a negative

[feral river]

now give it back to you 🤣

[frosty field]

Yes because I was operating within my own worldview in an entirely seperate discussion?

I never made a direct claim about His existence, not in the first discussion, and not in this one. It is completely unfair to say that I did and therefore have to prove it. That makes no sense at all.

[feral river]

oh now you say you are not claiming this again ? then why ask me for proof 🤣

[dense agate]

even if someone makes a definite claim, epistemologically, that claim is already presupposed with the limitation of human logic and reasoning.

[frosty field]

You said, in this discussion, God definitely DOES NOT exist, which is a definite claim. When you make a definite claim, you have to proof it, and if that is impossible, you can impossibly make a definite claim while staying intellectually honest.

[feral river]

your logic is literally contradicting because you asserted your worldview framework doesn't imply a direct assertion while questioned my worldview

that's what you have done not me

I asked you what is a crap I said, did you point it out already ?

[frosty field]

You said he does not exist that is a definite claim

I said I think that fighting for oneself is useless if you don't include God in that fight. That is my worldview in a seperate discussion.

[dense agate]

i don't think it's our problem you can't comprehend what proving a negative means

[feral river]

that's my worldview which is not imply a direct assertion

🤣

bro may confused with his own claim

[frosty field]

Dude... Everyone understands that.

However, that does not mean you can make negative claims about every. single. thing. and get away with it without having to prove it. Don't be intellectually dishonest, you're a smart guy.

[frosty field]

It did though...

[feral river]

how ?

remember this is your claim

[frosty field]

This is a definite claim. You said He does not exist.

[feral river]

no that's not that's my worldview which is not imply a direct assertion

[dense agate]

you're the one who's being dishonest, what you said is basically "i know what asking to prove the negative means (or you assume to know) but idc"

[feral river]

that's my worldview which is not imply a direct assertion

[frosty field]

That is not you operating within your own worldview in a seperate discussion. If you don't understand that I don't know what to tell you...

[feral river]

yes yes yes now you are using @dense agate 's logic to talk back to me

bro you are really done

[frosty field]

You shifted the point of contention to God's existence or non-existence by making the definite claim he does not exist.

Before that, I was just operating within my own worldview.

[feral river]

you shifted the point of whether continue your crap to how I'm saying what is something exist

before that, I was saying that's your crap

and you said it's your worldview which is not imply a direct assertion

[dense agate]

OpErAtIng WiTh My OwN wOrLdViEw, my man, if someone says "the French king passed away" that statement comes with the presupposed claim that France is a monarchy

[feral river]

then I said that's my worldview you say that's not me operating within my own worldview

wtf is wrong with you ?

are you just want to start a problem here ? @frosty field

[frosty field]

No, it is not "I don't care"

I was writing something at first, but I think it would be better if I ask you questions so you can follow my train of thought.

Answer with yes/no please

[pale crater]

wtf

[frosty field]

1. In any professional debate setting, the person making the claim has burden of proof yes or no

[feral river]

you are the one started this you question us ?

?

would you mind if I repost some screenshot of what you have said ?

[dense agate]

oga boga, in professional debates, and even in philosophy proving the negative is always avoided

[frosty field]

We were having a discussion about an entirely different topic my guy... The other person shifted the point of contention when they made the definite negative statement.

[frosty field]

It barely happens because they don't make definite negative claims...

[frosty field]

Because they KNOW that they can not prove it, therefore they KNOW they can not make a definite negative claim...

[feral river]

you are circling with your own logic of I must have done something wrong but you can't point it out

🤣

[frosty field]

I did do that about three million times

[dense agate]

the definite negative claims are there by default, there isn't a cup of tea on my desk, i don't need to make that statement nor prove it, when it comes to claiming a positive, that's when the burden of proof comes up

[feral river]

and I use your logic of worldview doesn't imply assertion while you questioned me about worldview does imply assertion

[feral river]

that's what you have done

saying worldview doesn't imply assertion and worldview does imply assertion at the same time

which is true let me ask you ?

[dense agate]

we focus on proving the positive, if we have to prove every negative that would be impossible, there are infinite scenarios, that's why it's generally avoided not just in debates but in philosophical discussions in general, you never heard of the expression "you can't prove a negative"

[feral river]

and why the heck I need to proof a negative existence ?

[frosty field]

1. I replied to something unrelated to God's existence, and operated within my own worldview, saying I think fighting for oneself without God is useless.

2. You shifted point of contention to God's existence/non-existence.

3. You made a DEFINITE claim he DOES NOT exist.

4. You all jump at me and ask me to prove God, even though I have never made a direct, definite claim on his existence.

[dense agate]

you made a statement that came with claim that god exists, we don't need to keep repeating this

[feral river]

1. you started all of these with your crap 2. you asked me for proof for your stuff I don't even know 3. I use your logic to explain how it works and you made a 100% negative claim based on your own logic to against me

[frosty field]

Because you're making a definite claim. If you said "I don't think God exists, so I think it's crap to fight for him", we wouldn't be having the discussion.

[feral river]

no crap no one need to proof a negative existence, proof your god is not me

[frosty field]

No I discussed a seperate topic with you all, using my OWN point of view without making a claim...

[dense agate]

this is a waste of time, you either don't or can't get it

[feral river]

you have said a bunch of stuff about him ? when I'm saying I said something about her you answered nothing

why don't you answer it ?

because you know her and him is the same thing ?

🤣

I really doubt that you don't know what you are saying

and start all of these crap for propaganda

even at the earlier of these crap you said something about it

[frosty field]

What are you even talking about? Who is her?

[feral river]

What are you even talking about? Who is him?

[frosty field]

Her and him is the same thing??

[feral river]

Her and him is the same thing??

[frosty field]

Propaganda???

I don't understand you

[feral river]

well yes

this is propaganda for sure

[frosty field]

I think you fail to understand the principles of a fair, professional debate. I tried clarifying.

[feral river]

no he may understand it but he just don't want to lose his point which is a failure logic that I used his logic to against him and he rejected his own logic 🤣

[dense agate]

he's too uncertain to move to proving god's existence, so he stalls

[dense agate]

ye sure

[frosty field]

You can't make definite claims about something without having any proof and therefore, you can't make definite claims* about (non-)existence.

I would be more than happy discussing why I do, and you don't believe in God. However, we can't make any definite claims doing so, or else we would be intellectually dishonest.

[feral river]

idk if he said something like that but I'm sure he's making propaganda of it

[frosty field]

Do you know what this word means?

[pale crater]

well i dont think people can prove God's exsistence, people just believe in one

[frosty field]

And no one can prove he does not exist. Therefore, making a definite claim for or against God, is intellectually dishonest.

[feral river]

why I have to be intellectually dishonest to honestly question a positivie existence which you interpreted by your worldview ?

🤣

[frosty field]

You didn't question it you said he definitely does not exist, that's different.

[feral river]

yeah she definitely does not exist too

[frosty field]

Also, propaganda is used to promote someone's point of view. I am not pushing Christianity (or any other religion) onto you, therefore it is not propaganda.

[frosty field]

What do you mean she? Who is she?

[feral river]

this is a propaganda that you use your worldview to spread influence over here.

[feral river]

What do you mean he? Who is he ?

[pale crater]

theyre prob referring to God

[feral river]

if you wanna continue this I don't mind that I can text till the night I have enough time of this

[dense agate]

well yes, a supernatural deity cannot be rationally proved, believers just follow their subjectivity and/or make a leap of faith.

[frosty field]

No I don't need any influence 🤣

[feral river]

you don't need to be christian to spread christianity propaganda or theist propaganda

I don't need to be a communist to spread how great communist utopia is

[frosty field]

He is God, do you not know the topic we are discussing?

[feral river]

She is God, I don't think you know the topic we are discussing

[frosty field]

I guess, but this is all getting really confusing lol. My main point is; don't make a definite claim if you can't back it up with proof.

What's so crazy about that? That shouldn't be controversial...

[pale crater]

man this is just going in circles

[frosty field]

Who is she? What god?

[dense agate]

https://tenor.com/view/when-you-at-the-when-he-gif-25019676

[feral river]

my main point is: don't you think you try to hide your propaganda and assertion by worldview that does not establish the definite claim

[frosty field]

Genuinely. Over something that shouldn't be controversial.

[feral river]

irelevant to this

[frosty field]

Then why start talking about a 'she'

[pale crater]

well it's controversial cause you guys are arguing WHOSE claim is definite, not really the main point (at least what i can tell so far)

[feral river]

because you started talking about he

[dense agate]

lel, you're being very dishonest here, you claimed you're aware how proper discussions and debates are done yet you're here asking for someone to prove a negative

may i recommend you check actual discussions when it comes to proving a negative ?

[feral river]

well I don't think he really knows his own logic

[frosty field]

One person said: God does not exist

Other person said (in a seperate discussion): I think that fighting for oneself without God is useless

Who made the definite claim, and who was operating within their own worldview while debating a different topic?

[feral river]

?

[frosty field]

Because in any professional debate setting, if you make a definite claim, even if it's a negative claim, you have to back it up with proof.

By your logic, I can make definite negative statements about everything and win every debate... This is not how it works. You can't make definite claims if you have no proof. That simple.

[pale crater]

yea but that person said they think fighting without God is useless.
not that they think God exsists.

so it's probably not that comparable with the other person's claim

[dense agate]

lel, it's the other way around, you're trying to "win" a debate by using these kinds of traps, waiting for someone to claim "X doesn't exist" then get them into the dilemma of proving a negative

[frosty field]

Exactly my point.

We were discussing something completely unrelated to this, and I said that I believe fighting for oneself without God is useless.

AFTER this, the point of contention got changed because someone made a definite claim God doesn't exist.

[feral river]

@frosty field remember your claim ?

[frosty field]

You can't go back to another discussion and claim that by me using my own worldview, I made the definite claim God doesn't exist.

[feral river]

@frosty field remember ?

[frosty field]

Where do you read a definite claim?

[feral river]

you questioned me all of these then asked me for proof

you started the freaking all of these

[frosty field]

Not at all, I shared my POV from my own worldview

[pale crater]

at this point i dont think it's gonna end

[feral river]

your own worldview is saying I'm silly right ?

that's own worldview ?

wanna have more ?

[frosty field]

The Bible doesn't say you're silly if you fight for yourself without God

I said I think that's a silly thing to do

[feral river]

no I didn't say anything about your Bible or your god I don't care

[frosty field]

Because the Bible calls us to lean on God, not ourselves

[feral river]

I'm asking you, did you said I'm silly ?

that's what you have said not me

you said I'm silly then ask me for proof of your crap

[frosty field]

I said I think if you lean on yourself and no one else, you're silly

[feral river]

that is totally bullshit

[frosty field]

Because you can't fight all of your battles on your own

[feral river]

I think if you are talking this with anyone, you are silliest

does that make clear to you ?

[frosty field]

What did I do wrong lol

[feral river]

I would ask that

[frosty field]

You're so mad at me for no reason at all

[pale crater]

uh...

[feral river]

You call me silly for nothing then question me over here for your proof

that's really sucked up

[frosty field]

I never called you silly, I said I think it's silly if people lean on themselves and no one else ALL THE TIME

[feral river]

what if I find evidence ?

what if I find direct evidence of you said this because I said it earlier before

[frosty field]

If you felt like I was directly referring to you, I'm truly sorry. I wasn't

[dense agate]

and fun fact, in one of the few contexts where proving a negative is practical, like math, it's often done by contradiction, which means assuming the claim is true and showing it's logical impossibility.
proving the negative is almost impossible in all cases, something you might've not been aware of, or maybe you're just acting clueless to avoid progressing to proving a postive

[frosty field]

I said, and I quote "Fighting for God is crap, but fighting for yourself is good? That's silly..."

[feral river]

@frosty field remember ?

[frosty field]

That is consistent with what I just explained

[dense agate]

in short words, you're not arguing in good faith

[frosty field]

Because after that I sent you the verse, explaining WHY I believe that is silly.

[feral river]

I'm done with this shit @dense agate good luck bro I'm gonna have some lunch

[pale crater]

well i mean saying that right after they say they fight for themselves does kinda make it seem like youre calling em silly

[frosty field]

My brother, I already told you I know that can be impossible, therefore, do not make a definite claim about something you can't prove...

[dense agate]

aight, enjoy

[frosty field]

Which is why I apologized if it came off that way.

Immediately after I had said that, I sent the verse that explains to us that leaning on ourselves without God is not advised. I think that made it pretty clear I was referring to the situation, not a specific person, but I guess I was mistaken.

[dense agate]

you are basically saying i can't say that there isn't an invisible fly in my house, because i wouldn't be able to prove it

that's how absurd it is

[frosty field]

Basically. That's how it works in professional debates, which is why they refrain from making definite claims.

What they do in a professional debate setting is; One side argues for, and one side argues against God. Not with definite proofs, but by using logic.

[dense agate]

negative claims are there by default, there is no need to make a definite statement about them, or else you'll have to make a claim about an infinite amount of scenarios, that's why the burden of proof is on the positive claims

[frosty field]

You can argue whose logic you think is more plausible to be true, but that's an entirely different topic

[dense agate]

stop the appealing to authority fallacy, plus i do watch a lot of debates, and what you're saying is absolute nonsense, asking someone to prove a negative is one way to tell everyone how unhinged you are

[frosty field]

"There is no need to make a definite statement about them"

Exactly my point! We're seeing eye to eye after all 😅

Do not make a definite claim about something that you can not disprove.

[dense agate]

i would love to see eye to eye with you after repeating all of my points countless tiems

[frosty field]

Do you still not understand that I asked that to show how intellectually dishonest it is to make a definite negative claim? It can not be disproven, so you can not make a definite claim about it. Plain and simple.

We can keep going in circles if you like, but I truly believe that we are already agreeing on this lol.

We're debating on pointless semantics at this point.

[pale crater]

if you can tell it's pointless yourself, why not end it yourself?

[frosty field]

1. They are making claims about my God they can not prove are true
2. I think learning about other people's POV is insightful even if I don't agree
3. Trying to think of different ways to convey your thoughts better every single time is very helpful

😁

[dense agate]

we don't have to live in a world where we assume that an infinite number of things with completely random features and coordinates cannot be decisively ruled out, we perceive, analyze, and comprehend things to the best of our ability, using traits like reason, logic, and comprehension, which are taken as a necessary unjustified presuppositions

[pale crater]

well fair enough, ima go sleeb now, cya

[dense agate]

wait for someone to make a negative claim
ask them to prove what can't be logically proven
they can't prove a negative
consider it a win
profit

"just don't make a negative claim bro, it's that easy"

[frosty field]

-> "God definitely does exist"
-> Asked to prove the spiritual
-> There is no definite (read: scientific) proof for the spiritual
-> Consider it a win
-> Profit

This logic goed both ways man... That is why I'm saying, don't make definite claims if you don't have definite proof.

[dense agate]

yes esteemed mother, i would objectively observe God through the spirit

[frosty field]

You can discuss why you think he does not exist without making a definite claim.

A simple "I think" or "I believe" never hurt anyone

[dense agate]

you'll stick with having me prove a negative claim for eternity if you want, because that's a hook you can never let go of

I can confidently say there's no double headed centaur in my room, but you’ll always be unsure and worried about contradicting yourself regarding whether such a centaur is definitely not there. similarly, if you can accept that the centaur doesn’t exist, you should be able to apply the same reasoning to your deity

[frosty field]

I said it's impossible to show someone definite proof, therefore don't make a definite claim.

We can discuss about why you THINK he doesn't exist, I'd be more than happy to.

[frosty field]

If the debate is centered around the question: "Does my room have a double-headed centaur in it?"

Then you should go about answering it this way;
"No, I don't think there is, because (...)"

And then you can "win" the debate by giving me logical reasons as to why you believe that there is no double-headed centaur in your room, and if your logic is better than my logic, then we can conclude that you've won the debate

And if my logic sounds far-fetched and yours doesn't, then we can logically conclude that there probably is no double-headed centaur in your room. HOWEVER, we can't say it with absolute certainty, because it's something that can not be proven.

[feral river]

I wonder why you think someone can’t make a definite proof of something doesn’t exist ?

[dense agate]

if you're joining/making a discussion to farm on "wins" then that's already coming in bad spirit and not something im interested on

[frosty field]

what

[frosty field]

I'm explaining what a debate is, not what I am doing?

[feral river]

Now I made an assertion, there’s no her

Do I need to proof it ?

[frosty field]

I never even started this by the way. I was talking about a seperate topic until someone claimed my God definitely does not exist.

If they are 100% certain I am very curious to hear about the proof, because if there is proof that my God does not exist, why would I live my life for Him?

[feral river]

There’s no any circumstances you need to proof something is negatively existing

[frosty field]

Then don't claim it definitely does not exist, because you don't know that with 100% certainty

[dense agate]

i'd go more into this on an epistemological and scientific-framework level, but i'm too tried now, maybe another time

[feral river]

I claim it does not exist

And there’s no any circumstances you need to proof something is negatively existing

If you want to proof I’m wrong then proof it exists

And it’s not a false claim since you can’t proof it exists

[frosty field]

Maybe some other time. I'd definitely be open to discussing why you believe what you believe and the other way around. 🙏

[dense agate]

that's not the definition of debate, the goal is not to "win", you're meant to explore other perspectives, test your own arguments and find their limitations

[frosty field]

Not how it works

[feral river]

It is how it works

It always is

[frosty field]

That's the fallacy Saimon was talking about

[feral river]

This logic make 100% more sense than yours

[frosty field]

😂

[feral river]

Come on you can try to proof it

🤣

Try then

Start with your own rhetoric doesn’t mean anything

[frosty field]

I'm waiting for Saimon to call out the irony in this

[feral river]

All of this irony on you because your flawed logic of proof something exist

[frosty field]

It depends on the debate setting, in politics it definitely is.

And by 'win' I don't mean actual competition, but more so the person that conveyed their points better.

[frosty field]

No you committed the fallacy I got accused of earlier, that's the irony

[feral river]

You can accuse as a fallacy

That make a lot of sense now

[turbid ivy]

Do we have any Muslim friends

@cedar pulsar hi

[cedar pulsar]

helloo nobu

[cedar pulsar]

uwu

[turbid ivy]

Oh hi.. I had few questions, so pinged you

[cedar pulsar]

its okay :3 whats ur questions

[turbid ivy]

Oh, yeah, I had a question whether the Qur'an is preserved or not

[cedar pulsar]

oh c'mon didnt we tell u its preserved

[turbid ivy]

I found something from the footnote of Abdullah Yusuf Ali's Qur'an, wait lemme show you

[formal pilot]

Oldest quran ever found was dated back to 568 and 645 AD

And prophet was born in 570 AD

So ig it's preserved

[turbid ivy]

This one
Ali writes: “In some Qira’ahs, like that of Ubayy ibn Ka’ab, occur also the words ‘and he is a father of them,’ which imply his spiritual relationship and connection with the words ‘and his wives are their mothers’” (Abdullah Yusuf Ali, The Meaning of the Holy Qur’an, Note 3674)
https://archive.org/details/the-meaning-of-the-holy-quran/page/1057/mode/2up

[turbid ivy]

Hi sure @weary belfry @cedar pulsar

Surah 33:6 declares that “The Prophet is closer to the Believers than their own selves, and his wives are their mothers.” Ubayy ibn Ka’b and other early Muslims held that a specific phrase (“and he is a father of them”) is missing from this verse.

[frosty field]

Didn't they burn a ton of versions

[turbid ivy]

Birmingham Manuscript of the Qur'an?

[formal pilot]

Yeah it's identical to modern quran

Only diff is in writing الیف

[turbid ivy]

If I'm not wrong, it contains merely 4 surahs which aren't complete, right?

Surah 18, 19 and 20

I looked other evidences, the stories which are found in those 3 surahs are already found in more early sources.

[formal pilot]

Yeah it contains 3 incomplete chp

💀

[formal pilot]

It was mass Burnet by Usman, who died in 656AD

We need Arabic expert here
@sonic terrace

[turbid ivy]

[frosty field]

If they burnt all of these books 100yrs after they found the first Qur'an, wouldn't it be fair to say that the preservation of it wasn't amazing?

[formal pilot]

We can't say for certain if it was preserved or not

Oldest nearly complete quran is Topkai manuscript

740 AD - 760 AD

[lavish creek]

(after were forced to, tbf)

[feral river]

@shy summit why California alone have 54 seats ?

[lavish creek]

population

i'm surprised u dont know that

[feral river]

Actually I know that but I don’t think it’s only because of the population

California 38 mil, Texas 30 mil

[lavish creek]

yes

[bright geode]

hi.

[feral river]

Texas has 79% in count of California’s population, but Texas has 74% of their seats

[lavish creek]

ig it's coz in population pools they also adds non-citizens

https://www.archives.gov/electoral-college/allocation

[bold galleon]

Hai

[thorny steeple]

Ye we need the one

[dapper laurel]

ITALIA

ROME, WE ARE ROME

[thorny steeple]

Rome is civilization

[thorny steeple]

Rome is life

[dapper laurel]

ROME IS EVERYTHING

[thorny steeple]

Something the barbarians can't match

[dapper laurel]

Omg, that studying server

[thorny steeple]

Good eh?

[lavish creek]

study together?

[dapper laurel]

My first discord account got banned because of them

[thorny steeple]

How so

[dapper laurel]

To troll I said I was 9 years old

[lavish creek]

i was a big fan of their website, but then they closed rooms

[thorny steeple]

XD

[lavish creek]

dont like their study rooms in discord tbh

but miss the site very much

[dapper laurel]

🥲

[lavish creek]

time when i was studying about 11 hours per day without weekends

[dapper laurel]

For university?

[lavish creek]

yeap

[dapper laurel]

Law, right?

[lavish creek]

right

[dapper laurel]

What is this faculty like?

[lavish creek]

what do you mean

[dapper laurel]

Are the exams difficult?

[lavish creek]

they were actually

but i got exallence for all of them

[dapper laurel]

Good

And what career opportunities are there?

[lavish creek]

😭

everything will be good, that's what i'm telling myself

[thorny steeple]

Sure keep telling that

[thorny steeple]

Seems grateful

[dapper laurel]

Make a career as a saul Goodman

[lavish creek]

i mean, it's not a good time for young ppl in Europe in general you know

[thorny steeple]

Become Saul Goodman IRL

[lavish creek]

love u guys

[dapper laurel]

Imagine defending a criminal on trial

[dapper laurel]

I know 😭

[thorny steeple]

We have great time in America

[thorny steeple]

XD America

[dapper laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/viralhog-gun-fire-murica-flag-america-gif-12183553

[turbid ivy]

I think this is the one of the copy made by Uthman which was compiled by Zaid. Most of the early reciters of the Qur'an like Ubby ibn Ka'b and Ibn Masud seem to disagree with Zaid's Version.

[thorny steeple]

Hell yeah

[lavish creek]

yeap

imagine there are our relatives dying in trenches and ditches

[thorny steeple]

WW2

[lavish creek]

so we are actually pretty privilege

[lavish creek]

no, i'm talking about current events

[thorny steeple]

Ukraine war

[dapper laurel]

My uncle is in the military

He served in Afghanistan

[lavish creek]

wow

[peak shale]

IUKUK

[thorny steeple]

Will you serve

[dapper laurel]

Maybe

It would be an honor for me

[thorny steeple]

To serve your ancestors

[lavish creek]

i knew some ppl who also fought in Afghanistan (USSR interference) but all of them passed away due alcohol abuse

[thorny steeple]

Ages ago

[dapper laurel]

And my future children, keeping them safe

[lavish creek]

my grand grand dad signed up as a volunteer when he was fourteen

[thorny steeple]

Like the Roman soldier who defended the empire and their families

[lavish creek]

fought from Moscow to Berlin, then was dislocated to Manchuria to fought Japanese

[lavish creek]

based

[thorny steeple]

From from magadan to Kazakhstan

[lavish creek]

no, he never were in gulag or something

he was a simple guy

but grandma often says he was sometimes cruel

[thorny steeple]

That's the Soviet Union for you

[lavish creek]

well ye cant judge him

his parents saw ww1 and civil war, that soviet experiments

he fought in fucking ww2

if you think about it our struggle is nothing

[thorny steeple]

Saw the great depression

The Spanish flu

[lavish creek]

it's for you, american fella

[thorny steeple]

Well that happened to people here, Italian

[lavish creek]

italian? what do u mean

u said u are Dominican

[thorny steeple]

I'm, I'm talking about you

Where you from again?

I confused you with Andosweher

[lavish creek]

I'm from United Eastern European States, also i'm pro-One Eastern Europe policy

[thorny steeple]

So pro EU?

[lavish creek]

@dapper laurel would you say i'm looking Italian ?

[lavish creek]

yes

[thorny steeple]

Maybe who knows, you can be Romanian or Albanian

[feral river]

Forgot how to spell the word america after seeing this

[thorny steeple]

Pretty much

[feral river]

With socialism characteristics ?

How about start some Soviet first

I know the Eastern Europe is the most Soviet place

It is before the USSR, it is in the USSR, it still is after the USSR

[lavish creek]

eastern Europeans except Russians and Belarussians in general hate socialism and communism

we have seen what socialism look like

[feral river]

what about Poland, Hungry ?

[lavish creek]

especially they lol

[pallid zealot]

I am also hungry 🤭

[feral river]

lmao I forgot how to spell hungary

[pallid zealot]

It's okay, you just humor me

What topics we have today?

[manic juniper]

Poland hated socialism so much they voted for Christian democrats

[feral river]

lmao

[pallid zealot]

This section is so empty

[dapper laurel]

Yes

Even if there is no real Italian look

We literally have every possible phenotype

But you look pretty average central Italian

Be proud of it

[prisma cipher]

Be proud of what?

[pallid zealot]

You know Nero claudius?

[dapper laurel]

Look Italian

[prisma cipher]

Ok