🧠｜serious-chat

[dense agate]

imma fact check that in vic3 in a moment

[manic juniper]

Hungarians travelled back to their urheimat btw

They interacted with their closest relatives in the Middle Ages

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Hungaria

[lavish creek]

https://www.hungarianconservative.com/articles/culture_society/hungarians_turkic-peoples_history_civilizaton_traditions_ethnicity/

Hmmm

[lavish creek]

Right

They also call Hungary conquered homeland right?

[manic juniper]

I don't know

[dense agate]

so kinda forget, hungary the state din't even exist in the 19th century, i believe austria turns into austria-hungary later on

[manic juniper]

I just know that they had expeditions towards their urheimat and effectively met eastern Hungarians

[lavish creek]

About 1860 if I remember correctly

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Hungary

[dense agate]

meanwhile the grand dutchy of Finland and the Baltic governorates

[lavish creek]

And the story there really strange

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Hungary
There is this one that is the oldest Hungarian State

[lavish creek]

Like two independent states under one king you know

So it's not exactly Austria-Hungary

[dense agate]

the weird thing here is the Baltic governorates had their own governor them, but the grand duchy of Finland was directly under the control of the Russian throne (Tsar nikolai)

[manic juniper]

It was his property, not really under his control

It's somewhat different

The Gran Duchy of Finland had its currency and institutions, in the end it was still a subject of Russia but with great autonomy

[lavish creek]

Like Poland actually

Russian tsars used to hate Russians more then people they conquered

[dense agate]

when did they break from Russia ?

[manic juniper]

1917

[lavish creek]

Poland and Finland had constitutions and parliament, Russian mainland doesn't

[dense agate]

i assume somewhere around the russian revolution

[dense agate]

okay then yes, good timing

[lavish creek]

They get rid of serfdom in Poland earlier

[dapper laurel]

They loved them, they conducted such an imperialist policy to protect the Russian people

[manic juniper]

They gave Finland this much independence not out of love, but because we were the most developed region of Russia and Swedish administration was superior to the Russian one

[dense agate]

what poland ?

[lavish creek]

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Tsardom_of_Poland&redirect=no

[dense agate]

yea that's true, idk how accurate is Vic3 but it shows Finland even tho a subject, it has standard of living and literacy

[lavish creek]

Wopps

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_Poland

[manic juniper]

When Russia conquered it it kept operating almost identically to a Swedish province with a different monarch

Also forcefully changing all institutions in Finland would've been risky

[dense agate]

wasn't that shortly lived ? at the year 1836 the closest thing i can find to a polish state is what appears to be the city-state of Karkow

[lavish creek]

Well it was fine till the ww1 if I remember correctly

[dense agate]

well that explains the big difference between them

it shows law differences too, while russia still had serfdom, finland already abolished it and enacted per capita taxation

[manic juniper]

I don't recall when Sweden reformed that, it abolished slavery around the beginning of the 14th century, serfdom stuck around I guess but it was different and since the 17th century Finns had tons of opportunities

We were the most valuable cavalry at Sweden's disposal during that century

[dense agate]

i believe that was when charles the 12th rage that war against russia

[manic juniper]

That was later but yeah we were still valuable, until the end

[dense agate]

what i find odd is how even then, Finland got to keep the island of Aland which was mainly inhabited by swedes

[manic juniper]

It's the House of Vasa that improved our living conditions and rights first

[dense agate]

i can't type the name properly but it has an o on top of A

[manic juniper]

A lot of Finland was inhabited by Swedes, coastal Ostrobothnia was Swedish majority, everyone in Helsinki spoke Swedish

In 1917 20% of Finnish citizens spoke Swedish as first language

Today it's around 4%

[dense agate]

ohh that's a large amount

i found sami people and im looking it up

[feral river]

I don’t believe children can not be weaponized

[manic juniper]

Ostrobothnia is still 49% Swedish

[feral river]

Children is also human, it has brain it has body, it has arm to hold guns

[dense agate]

okay so they are indigenous people who reside in north Norway, Sweden and Finland

[feral river]

If they do really care their kid, leave there

[manic juniper]

Russia too

[feral river]

Not using them as human shields

Or training them to be a fighter

[lavish creek]

It doesn't justify killing them

[dense agate]

oh yea you're right, in the Kola Peninsula

[feral river]

Yeah it can’t be justified to kill an innocent kid

But not a suicide bomber kid

Or a machine gun kid

Why you think an enemy with a tag of kid so they can avoid being killed

That’s ridiculous

[dense agate]

idk but i always assumed Russian would be the second most spoken language in Finland

probably of the history

[manic juniper]

It is third or fourth today

It was third in the past

[dense agate]

i assume english came in

[manic juniper]

Few people speak it natively

Why the kiss emoji

[dense agate]

lel

[dense agate]

English ?

why would they speak english natively

[manic juniper]

I thought you were referring to how many people spoke English natively here

[dense agate]

no no , just spoken languages in general

[manic juniper]

Most of the Russians we have are new immigrants or Russified Finnic minorities, we also have a minority of Russians that stayed since the imperial times

But they're very few, only 6k at most. We call them vanhat venäläiset

[lavish creek]

Read about Saams in Sweden

Actually many Russians have Finno-Ugric roots but most of them don't know about that

[manic juniper]

Many Swedes do too

[dense agate]

you mean Sámi right ?

[lavish creek]

Ye, right

[dense agate]

they don't look any different than swedes

[manic juniper]

They were assimilated for the most part

The Sámi we have in Finland look closer to how they used to be

Most have been forcefully assimilated in Sc*ndinavian society

[dense agate]

intersting

[lavish creek]

https://balticworlds.com/sweden-is-stepping-out/

[dense agate]

i was searching more into assimilation measures that were done on the Sami people

i found this book 36 page paper about it

but it only talks about it from Norwegian side

[lavish creek]

Finland also took part in it if I remember correctly

[dense agate]

the odd thing is it mentioned how Norway was worried and started shielding itself from Finland even after it broke from Russia

[dense agate]

for sure, it also mentions similar things happening to Kven people

lel

i wonder how greater-Finland would look like

[lavish creek]

Under @manic juniper rule

[sharp bluff]

Military aid to Ukraine could backfire. Shouldn't we try to partner with Russia against China instead?

[manic juniper]

I don't a bigger Finland than this, only a federation with the Baltics at most

[sharp bluff]

What's with this sudden shift in foreign policy? I thought peaceful relations with Russia were possible.

[manic juniper]

yeah they were before they wished to annex a sovereign country

[dense agate]

bro missed the big elephant in the room (the war they started)

[sharp bluff]

Frustrated that US foreign policy seems to forget that strong enemies can be good allies if approached right.

[manic juniper]

No

[dense agate]

what connections do the baltic have with finland to want to opt in

[manic juniper]

We didn't sterilise Sámi people like Scandinavians did, but we let their languages die

[lavish creek]

You stabbed your brother in the back

[manic juniper]

Estonia is Finnic, Latvia has historical ties with Estonia, Latvia is also related to Lithuania

[sharp bluff]

Biden's moves could weaken us in the face of China's growing power. Concerned.

Biden's moves could weaken us in the face of China's growing power. Concerned.

This feels like a diversion from the real threat. Can't we see China's playing chess?

[lavish creek]

Is it bot ?

[manic juniper]

We never were brothers, cousins at most. But no it wasn't our fault that Sámi people were mostly assimilated for the past centuries of not having sovereignty of our territory

We should feel guilty about not giving them their own State more than anything else, it's Scandinavians that destroyed their and our cultures

[dense agate]

seems like only Estonia is the one related to Finland

[manic juniper]

Heimosodat

[manic juniper]

Latvia and Estonia were part of Sweden at the same time as Finland was, plus the Baltic tribes always traded with the Baltic Finns, Livonians live in Latvia, and Latvia and Estonia were part of Livonia

[dense agate]

im searching about this, but it seems to only be targeted toward Russia

[manic juniper]

Yes, because Norway and Sweden feared an Heimosodat on their lands

Norway feared it in Finnmark and Sweden in Ylitornio

[dense agate]

also that paper i sent mentions someone called Bobrikoff if you know him, he was a governor appointed by the czar to russify Finland

[manic juniper]

Yes

[dense agate]

oh yess it mentioned Finnmark a lot

[manic juniper]

At the end of the Russian Empire they started oppressing and russifying its minorities hard

[manic juniper]

My family is from there, they are Kvens

[lavish creek]

Dams Finns are really good

[manic juniper]

It's funny how Norwegians and Swedes are completely unaware of their past policies in our regards

[lavish creek]

There is a good finish song

https://youtu.be/sD4loScPD0Y?si=yiqT2cACb6vyEcwn

[lavish creek]

Are they ?

[dense agate]

well Norway gave hell of a time to Sami, Finns and Kven in that region

[dense agate]

is this one from the way with the USSR ?

[manic juniper]

Yes, in my entire life I've only met one Swede that was aware of the witch trials and the crusades in Finland

[manic juniper]

The majority of Kvens live in Kistrand now

[lavish creek]

Yeap, all of them actually

[dapper laurel]

@manic juniper is vahaduo reliable to measure genetic distances?

I think it's based on G25 data

[lavish creek]

Especially tatars polish people and Fino-ugric

[manic juniper]

I don't know, never heard of it

[lavish creek]

They still do

[lavish creek]

Ye

Molotov is international affairs minister during this time

[manic juniper]

Honestly after seeing what happened to the Tornedalians and the Kvens I wish they extended the Heimosodat to Norway and Sweden

[dense agate]

lel

chaotic good be like

[manic juniper]

It could be lawful evil too

[prisma cipher]

Never heard about that.

[manic juniper]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_III_of_Russia
It's because of him, his father was a very good emperor while he was reactionary and oppressive

[lavish creek]

You sure about his father ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circassian_genocide

[lavish creek]

Never heard about Jewish pogroms and discrimination against Tatars ?

[prisma cipher]

I block you dude, nothing personal.

[lavish creek]

Lol okay

[manic juniper]

Politically he was quite competent, yes

Alexander III was too conservative, I don't think it was a good idea given how Russia was lagging behind in industrialisation. Nikolai II tried to reverse the trend but it was too late

[lavish creek]

Well some may argue that assimilation policy is politically competent

As our Chinese friend do (ig)

[quasi needle]

the elimination of cultural identity

👎

[manic juniper]

Unfortunately politics are quite amoral

[dapper laurel]

So people shouldn't be assimilated?

[manic juniper]

No, it makes the world more boring

[quasi needle]

no

I think somewhat yes, like in language

[dapper laurel]

Not even immigrants?

[manic juniper]

No

There should be a national lingua franca but that isn't needed either

[quasi needle]

i dont mean forgetting native tongue

i just mean if you move to a country you learn their main language

[dapper laurel]

Indeed, in order not to get bored we should start more civil wars

[quasi needle]

but by all means retain everything about your cultural identity including your language

[dapper laurel]

(assimilation could prevent them)

[quasi needle]

assimilation completely destroys culture

[manic juniper]

You could also start a world war to unite people

[quasi needle]

as are most wars

ww2 is one example, the nazis tried unifying everything under the third reich

[dapper laurel]

If you move to a country, you have to embrace its culture and customs in all their aspects

[quasi needle]

no you don’t have to

[dapper laurel]

.

[quasi needle]

that’s entirely optional

[dapper laurel]

Then you have no right to emigrate there

[quasi needle]

what the fuck are you on about

anyone has the right to immigrate where fit

there’s a reason there’s neighborhoods in immigrant rich areas with distinct foreign cultures

[dapper laurel]

Yes, if you are willing to integrate

You have to

[quasi needle]

completely false, people are entirely free to practice whatever culture they wish, unless you want the elimination of all cultures be my guest

new york and london, being the financial centers of the world, have areas for different cultures. they cater for the people, that’s why they attract so many people

[dapper laurel]

Okay, look at the mess that's going on in the UK because they've failed with the integration process

[quasi needle]

it’s not that bad, i live here

rioters causing the mess are extremists who fall to misinformation

[dapper laurel]

Just look how unstable they are, in 20 years they will be in anarchy

[quasi needle]

who’s they? I live here, it’s fine

stop listening to the fearmongering news

[dapper laurel]

But they don't kill children

As someone did

[quasi needle]

how about we talk about jimmy saville

how about prince andrew

how about we talk about the thousands of british murderers

immigration is too high but there’s NO chaos. don’t even TRY claim my country will fall into anarchy

[dapper laurel]

Compare crime statistics

[quasi needle]

yes they commit more crime because they’re statistically more impoverished and the police are institutionally racist, this has been widely documented and recorded

there were riots from the nationalists. did you know the ANTI rioters outnumbered them 10:1?

[dapper laurel]

Some cultures cannot coexist

[dapper laurel]

Ahhhh, always these socio-economic conditions, you ignore the fact that many of them simply do not want to integrate

Many of these criminals are second generation

[quasi needle]

are you suggesting it is the culture that causes them to commit crime

[dapper laurel]

This happens in France, Italy and Spain too

[quasi needle]

not their impoverished state

[dapper laurel]

Failure to integrate has a whole host of economic and social consequences

If you are not integrated, how can you find a decent job in your host country?

[quasi needle]

has this been documented

i want sources that state that if someone doesn’t integrate beyond language that it means they can’t find decent jobs

public opinion on immigration is spearheaded by fear mongering

immigration is too high, but it’s not causing fucking anarchy.

the government is more of a threat than my bus driver Manraj Singh for being a hindu instead of a devoted christian

[dapper laurel]

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=First_and_second-generation_immigrants_-_obstacles_to_work&oldid=328077

[quasi needle]

that source cites the leading causes being language barriers and discrimination

the only one thing i said was necessary and another thing that is the prejudice of the native populous

[dapper laurel]

https://www.africanews.com/2024/04/23/police-evict-migrants-from-a-makeshift-tent-camp-in-paris/

They literally live in tents, they pay no taxes, what do you call that?

[quasi needle]

read the article yourself

it says they’re asylum seekers that haven’t received residency papers

do you suggest they get a job when the government hasn’t processed their asylum? do you suggest they get fucking bombed in a war zone..?

it’s insanity

[dapper laurel]

Well, they are asylum seekers, but that doesn't stop them from working.

[quasi needle]

they are also young people, as the article states

YES IT DOES. THEY DONT HAVE RESIDENCY

you need your residency application processed to apply for a job

otherwise you are not a processed immigrant

blame that on the slow system not the people..???

[dapper laurel]

Well, one more reason not to let them in, this doesn't change the reality of the facts

[quasi needle]

yes. let them get bombed. how kind

vile take

[dapper laurel]

We must also think about our interests

Us or them

[quasi needle]

immigrants in the uk provide a net economic boost, the majority are providers, not dependents. what is the case

[dapper laurel]

There is no other way

[lavish creek]

Well ig he is talking about another thing

[dapper laurel]

Well, this may be good at first, but what will happen when they outnumber the native English? A civil war will break out

[lavish creek]

There are plenty of countries where there is no war in Africa

[dapper laurel]

Think long term

[quasi needle]

push and pull

[lavish creek]

Remember the 2015 crisis? They chosed Germany, not some poor countries

[dapper laurel]

They emigrate where there are benefits

[quasi needle]

if they’re moving to a richer country it’s for economic prosperity

in that case*

[lavish creek]

Or with Venezuela, where they are choosing US, instead of the bunch of countries around

[dapper laurel]

Here in Europe the first Islamic parties are starting to flourish, this is the beginning of the end

[quasi needle]

“root causes” “several interrelated wars, most notably the Libyan civil war, Syrian civil war and the 2014–2017 War in Iraq”

[lavish creek]

He is trying to say that EU UK and US can't afford all of that ig, not that it's good they are dying

[quasi needle]

ummm… the fact their economy is non existent? they literally cannot buy shit with their currency

you are trying to pin this on selfishness when their home countries are FUCKED

[lavish creek]

If you are talking about Latin America it's not true

[quasi needle]

live in venezuela for 10 years and tell me you’ll stay there

[lavish creek]

Why US? NOT Mexico or Brazil

[dapper laurel]

Benefits

That's it

[quasi needle]

because they’re both developing economies with substantiate crime rates, why WOULDNT they choose the SAFER country?

[lavish creek]

I'm not blaming those people ofc

[lavish creek]

Well imagine that for all the word

How 60 m UK would look like

[quasi needle]

Wdym

[lavish creek]

Well there will be plenty of wars in Africa it's not a question

Imagine millions of refugees going into one country

[dapper laurel]

But why should America accept them? If, as you claim, they do not necessarily have to integrate

[manic juniper]

Happened more than once

[lavish creek]

Let's take Germany again

[manic juniper]

The first sector would collapse without them

[quasi needle]

have you heard of chinatown

[dapper laurel]

An even more messed up example would be Turkey

[quasi needle]

have you heard how much the New York chinatown provides to its economy

a net gain… because of its distinct cultural identity

[lavish creek]

But he is talking about another case

And it's a different case

Migrants and refugees

[quasi needle]

You can have other cases but immigrants to the USA boost the economy more than they decline it, of course they should accept them, they’re a positive for the economy in the wider picture

[lavish creek]

For the second there are financial support

[quasi needle]

Refugees do not come from South America

Refugees are a european issue, not an American one

[dapper laurel]

The economy is evolving towards the tertiary sector, and, in truth, using them as cheap labor is delusional

[manic juniper]

The first sector is worth less, but it's much larger than it used to be

[lavish creek]

I'm not a pro-assimilation guy, but there should be integration and respect to locals

I'm a national minority myself cmon

[quasi needle]

They should speak the local language and operate in the community. That has been my view

No more

They do not need to have the same culture

[dapper laurel]

Economic growth is not everything, India too has a terrifying economic growth, but its people live in total misery

[quasi needle]

It’s not necessarily terrifying

[dense agate]

Omegalel statement

very regarded indeed

[lavish creek]

I believe you have a migration background urself

[quasi needle]

My family is British to the core

My ancestors date back to the exact same city I live in now

[lavish creek]

Oh, surprised

[quasi needle]

Which was founded a millennia ago

[manic juniper]

Socialism?

[dense agate]

pretty much haha

[quasi needle]

i am just empathetic for immigrants

[lavish creek]

I'm too

And there are no contradictions

[quasi needle]

you came to my country so ill respect you, i dont care what culture you have all i expect is for you to speak english or learn english as you stay

[lavish creek]

We spoke about migration a day ago

But I also understand that there should be some common groups for a community to flourish

[manic juniper]

If they were to only accept immigrants that speak our language immigration would drop to 4% or less

[dense agate]

i'm not that educated about migration in EU but i do know most don't realize 80% of the migration there happens between European countries

[quasi needle]

hence the latter clause

learn english as you stay, even if you dont know it when you arrive, just learn it over time

[lavish creek]

And you don't have to choose

You can be British and _____

[quasi needle]

this is not the case in the uk though. eu immigration PLUMMETED after brexit, non eu immigration shot up

[lavish creek]

There are no contradictions

[manic juniper]

English is easier than most languages

[quasi needle]

which is good

[lavish creek]

It's poor English lads who feel they are part only for one culture

[manic juniper]

That's why I think immigration here would drop to 4%

[quasi needle]

english "culture" is atrocious

[manic juniper]

Irish

[quasi needle]

i dont even know what english culture is

[lavish creek]

Yeap

[quasi needle]

going to the pub and getting drunk

[lavish creek]

Jewish and English

[dapper laurel]

Assimilation is what matters, without it ghetto neighborhoods are born, economic disparities, the crime rate increases. I accept all immigrants, but they must conform to my culture (not because it is superior) it's necessary

[manic juniper]

The people that stay here after they are done with their studies is just 20%

Compared to over 50% in Sweden and Norway

[quasi needle]

ghetto neighborhoods are born when the outside population doesnt respect them and pushes them away

[lavish creek]

I totally do not agree with the first part here

[lavish creek]

And that's an excuse

That was the case for Jewish people but the flourished anyway

[manic juniper]

Ghetto neighbourhoods are formed with State mismanagement of housing

[lavish creek]

In Italy actually

[dense agate]

that's pretty much the American model, it doesn't push you to assimilate to a specific identity, but unlike EU it has a stronger incentive to find work due to the lack of generous welfare

[quasi needle]

if you respect them, you get communities that thrive and are no different from any other neighborhood in a city. they just have their own culture, which makes it a diverse and refreshing place

[dapper laurel]

Well, nobody stops them from buying a house wherever they want, but unfortunately they choose to group together in economic neighborhoods and have their own communities

[quasi needle]

the job situation in america is a bit easier though, getting jobs here is a struggle

[lavish creek]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot

[quasi needle]

of course they want to be with others of the same culture, that doesnt mean they have to be secluded and separate from the rest of the area. they can integrate without deleting their cultural identity

[dense agate]

oh yes, the luxury of buying a house in a western country

[quasi needle]

they merge in, they dont have to wipe their slate clean and go "im english now, fish and chips innit!"

"beans on toast am i right my fellow brit?"

its not natural, its harmful

[dense agate]

i think this is pointing at how in the states people are assimilated through language

[lavish creek]

Yeap

[quasi needle]

natural integration works best, forced integration results in oppression

[lavish creek]

They have no specific policy about assimilation but they do that anyway

But

[dapper laurel]

It can happen, but integrating means being respectful of the customs of the country that hosts you, they cannot have the right to flaunt their culture in public places and so on

[dense agate]

i think if someone truly believes in liberal values such as individualism they shouldn't be seeking to rip migrants from their culture

[manic juniper]

Melting pots have the depth of a puddle

[quasi needle]

they have the right to expression, if they dont, thats a lack of a basic freedom. idk what to say

[lavish creek]

American nations are ius ad soli, not ius ad sanguinis as Italian or German

That makes a lot of stuff easier for them

[quasi needle]

if you say they dont have the right to express their cultural identity, youre restricting freedoms based off their past

[dense agate]

lel you are basically turning them into second-class citizens by stripping them from certain rights

[quasi needle]

exactly

[dapper laurel]

And they would have the same freedom to express themselves as the natives, being able to express the native culture

[quasi needle]

mold yourself into how we want you to be or you wont be accepted in our culture

thats how xenophobia starts

[lavish creek]

Well at least there should be a law with that kind of restrictions ig

[dapper laurel]

Nah, they can have citizenship, the right to vote and express the culture of the country that hosts them, nothing wrong with that, just integrate

[lavish creek]

Let's not talk about how constitutional are there

[dense agate]

this is actual nationalism, in modern Italy (which i assume you're from) Italian citizenship isn't tied to the italian culture or to ethnicity

[manic juniper]

There is not much Italian culture

[lavish creek]

Well it's actually ius ad sanguinis as I said

[quasi needle]

your proposal literally violates 2 human rights

[dapper laurel]

You can get it easily if you choose to integrate

[quasi needle]

the freedom of expression and the protection from discrimination in respect of the freedom of expression

[dense agate]

those 2 elements (culture and ethnicity) are completely irrelevant to Italian citizenship

[quasi needle]

you are proposing you strip human rights from immigrants

[dapper laurel]

Nah, actually they are the same freedoms that the natives would have

[quasi needle]

no. you are suggesting we violate article 10 and 14 of the human rights

read up on these articles

[dapper laurel]

If you live here for 18 years (minimum integration process) you can get citizenship, so I don't see what's wrong with that

[quasi needle]

you will find out you are

[manic juniper]

Almost twice as much as Switzerland

[dapper laurel]

Switzerland needs immigrants more than us

[manic juniper]

Why, growing economy or birth rates?

[dense agate]

sure they can go this way, many countries do. but Italy is in need of migrants

[dapper laurel]

We prefer to increase the birth rate with the commitment of the natives

[dense agate]

and any EU state with generous welfare system and declining fertility rate for that matter

[dense agate]

oh yes, because that is as simple as pressing a button

[manic juniper]

I believe we should give incentives to minorities in nearby countries to move where they would be the majority

Since their cultures are disappearing elsewhere

[dapper laurel]

It is a process at least as difficult as integrating immigrants

So, who cares?

[manic juniper]

Italy could do that with the few Istrian Italians and Dalmatian Italians left

[dense agate]

can you name me one country in the last 30-40 years that went from a fertility rate as low as 1.25 (italy's current) to above 2.1 ?

you're just being naive

[dapper laurel]

They have historical and cultural roots in those territories, it is difficult to move them in

[dense agate]

what's wrong with cultures disappearing ?

[manic juniper]

I know, but the issue is that they will be assimilated by Slovenes and Croats, it's better if Italy resettles them

[manic juniper]

The world gets boring

[dapper laurel]

No one has ever really tried it

Because letting in immigrants en masse seemed like the easiest and fastest solution

[dense agate]

you really haven't a clue

i can name you more extreme examples like Japan and South korea who have been trying and spent billions to no avail

[dapper laurel]

Many of them emigrated here after the Second World War, the few who remained know their fate

[manic juniper]

South Korea is spending a lot but isn't really doing much

[dense agate]

but it'll just tell to look at the incentives EU countries are giving to promote birthrates

[manic juniper]

There is rampant sexism and women don't want to be in a relationship because it's just not worth it

[dense agate]

that's actual money being invested for decades, billions of dollars

[dapper laurel]

They didn't try as hard as I would have tried

[dense agate]

hahaha

[manic juniper]

South Korea can't save itself with all the immigration of the world

It would make itself a new country in the process

[dense agate]

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-aware-twitch-forsen-emote-gif-25354609

[dapper laurel]

Just make it illegal not having a baby

[dense agate]

well, no different than the US if you think about it

[dapper laurel]

I'm forced to make these decisions like Minecraft

[manic juniper]

It would be an extremely broken country, worse than it is now

[dense agate]

mussolini's strongest soldier

[dense agate]

only one way to know

[manic juniper]

I don't think Japan can do anything as long as they have this economy with those housing prices

[dapper laurel]

Well, let in as many immigrants as possible and you will see the effects in 10 years

[dapper laurel]

I don't really care about him

[dense agate]

i never said that lel

[dense agate]

you appeal to nationalism a lot, common trait between you 2 i guess

[dapper laurel]

That's what you meant

[dense agate]

you're just assuming, migration isn't binary

it's not either you're pro total ban or complete open borders

[dapper laurel]

There is a difference between patriotism and nationalism

Btw, I don't have a problem with immigrants, they just need to integrate

[dense agate]

everything you said is not patriotism

[dapper laurel]

What's wrong with this?

[dense agate]

a true patriot would look for their country's best interest

[dapper laurel]

Integrating immigrants is one of our major interests

[dense agate]

what is "integration" to you ?

what you said previously is basically breaching rights

[dapper laurel]

Give up your native culture and embrace that of your host country

[dense agate]

what makes you think that's even possible ?

[quasi needle]

delusion

[dapper laurel]

There is nothing wrong, if they live here, it is because we did them a favor

[dapper laurel]

Maybe by forcing them?

[dense agate]

especially for a someone who jsut got into the country, we know that 2nd generation of migrants still retain a lot of their main culture

[dense agate]

how ?

[dapper laurel]

Simply don't let them in, maybe only accept the economically stable, open-minded and willing to integrate workforce

[dense agate]

are you going the chinese way with concentration or as they call them "reeducation" camps ?

[quasi needle]

who wouldve forseen the italian advocating for extreme nationalist indoctrination

not me ! (yes me)

[dense agate]

there are high skilled migrants, mostly from EU countries, but when it comes to this Italy has a net negative, they're losing more skilled migrants than they receive

due to just being unattractive to high skill labor compared to germany for example

[manic juniper]

The terrible choice I need to make between having more Estonians in their country or inviting them in my own

If only there was a way to have both at the same time

[dense agate]

there is low skill shortage in Italy as well, how would that be fixed i wonder

and since most EU countries have generous welfare states, they need to support all the elderly by having healthy workforce

[dapper laurel]

Well, it's not a problem in the end, the economy has ups and downs, this also causes socio-economic consequences on the population, which will experience periods of demographic growth and periods of stagnation

[dense agate]

how can you call yourself a patriot if you're ignoring problems that are threatening Italy at this scale

[dapper laurel]

Well, I'm a patriot because I don't want what's happening in the UK to happen in my country too.

[true aspen]

hey

[dapper laurel]

I don't want there to be terrorist attacks and so on

[dense agate]

hahaha, you're not only underwhelming the impact of the possible economic collapse but making up things "periods of demographic growth" ???

[dapper laurel]

Better that than being assimilated by a foreign culture

[dense agate]

i don't see the UK having problem with farm slaves

[dense agate]

yea keep edging to it

[dapper laurel]

There is a lot of ethnic tension in the UK

Maybe in 20 years there will be a civil war, who knows

[dense agate]

and what do you conclude from that ?

[dense agate]

why would a civil war happen ?

a country being made up of more than a single ethnic group doesn't = civil war

[dapper laurel]

Because immigrants will always have different interests than natives, Islamic parties will start to emerge, they will become the majority and take power

All this could be avoided with integration

[dense agate]

what are the interests of migrants ?

aren't they concerned about quality of life, access to healthcare/education, safety ?

[dapper laurel]

Preserving their unassimilated culture for example, do you remember the Islamic riots in France?

[dense agate]

or do you believe these guys migrate to countries as "refugees" but in truth they are trying to spread their ideologies ?

[dapper laurel]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Party_of_Britain#:~:text=The Islamic Party of Britain was founded in September 1989,support of Muslims in Britain.

Why is there an Islamic party then?

[dense agate]

is preserving your original culture inherently bad and a source of problems and unrest ?

[dense agate]

how representative is this party of total migrants that went to the UK ?

[dapper laurel]

As a community shouldn't we all have the same interests? Oh, right, we're not a community

[dapper laurel]

The fact that it exists and receives funding should make you understand that

[dense agate]

.

[dapper laurel]

Now it exists only as a movement, but in Italy there is one

[dense agate]

you can think ideally we should but that's never the case, even in what you'd call the most united communities, community interests are just made up of many individual interests, and each has their own

[dapper laurel]

https://www.dailymuslim.it/2021/04/italy-has-finally-seen-the-birth-of-the-islamic-party/

[manic juniper]

Defunct

[dense agate]

this really doesn't matter

[dapper laurel]

.

[manic juniper]

Lol now I wonder if my country has one too

[dense agate]

it's like a symptom of free expression

[dapper laurel]

For now, but what will happen if it is the majority?

[manic juniper]

Sharia law but they need to abolish the Constitution first

[dense agate]

i.e the States for example, there are many right wing groups that are pro non whites, does this mean white people are all like that or that white nationalist takeover is incoming ?

[dense agate]

that's as good as saying the US would turn mexican if it kept taking latin migrants

meanwhile they represent about 20%

[manic juniper]

The second thing could happen if it isn't addressed

[dapper laurel]

In some southern states they represent the majority

[dapper laurel]

But this doesn't worry me, they only let in qualified immigrants

[dense agate]

and towards whom the blame goes ?

[dense agate]

so your point ?

[dense agate]

LOL

qualified as in construction jobs ? gardening ? low skill labour ?

migrants break in all the time, what kind of qualification you're talking about ?

[manic juniper]

All people and especially the government for not taking action

[dapper laurel]

The United States has very different immigration policies than Europe

[dense agate]

anyone who's taking unlawful actions should be punished

[dapper laurel]

They literally built a wall to keep them out

[manic juniper]

If they're not making any but building up their force in the underground then it'll be difficult to stop

[dense agate]

they have strict legal migration, but they take shit tons of illegal ones

[dense agate]

are you saying a group of pro nationalist would be able to take on the state's military ?

[dapper laurel]

Well, they are outlaws, if they find them, they arrest them

[dense agate]

and im sure most countries are taking actions, i see germany swatting them very often

[manic juniper]

If over time they infiltrate the military, are well armed and have the support of a large part of the population, then yes

[dense agate]

not really, if they broke into the country illegally they are already outlaws

[dense agate]

for this to happen, not only it's extremely hard if not impossible , but doing so doesn't improve anything, you're ending up with a nationally oriented state, possibly an autocracy

if anything they have regressed

[manic juniper]

Yes, I don't want that but the conditions are not too difficult to achieve. After all fascism and Nazism didn't come out of nothing

[dense agate]

yes, every country should take steps to prevent this, it's just unfortunate how right wingers are milking the immigration crisis for easy votes

[manic juniper]

Plenty of countries where the order was subverted by few

[dense agate]

i don't get why people are abscessed about the "genetical" composition of their country to go so far against migration which is something that has always been happening

a more pragmatic approach can go far

[manic juniper]

It's not that different from the old claims nobles used to make about their families' ancestry

It gives them some arbitrary legitimacy over everyone else

[dense agate]

yea but we the tools we have today a country can keep track (hopefully without breaking into personal privacy too much)

[manic juniper]

For example Lithuanian nobility used to claim to have descended from an ancient Roman family that escaped the collapse of the Western Roman Empire

[dense agate]

yea exactly there is no rational thinking behind it

[dense agate]

lel, source : trust me bro

[manic juniper]

It's still rational, because it's about legitimating their rule or superiority

If people have interests in that it's absolutely understandable

[dense agate]

not in the context of maintaining liberal values, freedoms and liberties

[manic juniper]

That's not the goal, it's creating a hierarchical society

Eventually it will devolve into infighting

[dense agate]

there are still many states that put a lot of importance on ethnicity but i don't believe in the EU there is one

[manic juniper]

Many of them grant citizenship based off ethnicity, even today there are some like that left

[dense agate]

such things can't be done there without breaching constitutional rights

[dense agate]

in Europe ?

[manic juniper]

The Baltic countries and Poland used to grant citizenship based off ancestry, if you could prove it

I'm sure that some of them still do that

Finland too did that. But they suspended the program

In fact my family got their citizenship through that program

[dense agate]

odd, only example of this that comes to mind are Middle-Eastern countries, where if you lived your entire life or was even born there, you don't qualify for it

[dense agate]

then that must've been long ago

[manic juniper]

In Europe you can speed up the process this way, but obviously it's not the only way

[manic juniper]

It was still active in the 80s, one by one they suspended all of the "accepted ancestries"

People of Karelian descent were the last ones that could still easily claim citizenship just through proved ancestry and a Finnish language exam

Ancestry isn't enough, you must have B1 or more to get your citizenship

[dense agate]

is english widespread in Finland ? like can someone who only knows English get by there

[manic juniper]

Ingrians, Izhorians, Tornedalians, Forest Finns, Kvens, Karelians, Vesps, some others could all claim citizenship

[manic juniper]

Almost everywhere but finding a job is difficult with just English, unless it's in IT

I bet that Ukraine will attempt something similar once the war is over

[dense agate]

yea they'd probably have to do something after all the large amounts of ukrainians who left

i wonder if EU countries that hosted said refugees would try to push them back

i believe poland would

[manic juniper]

Just because they have many but many Ukrainians will not leave, and many countries will gladly keep them if they are able to contribute

[lavish creek]

Germany

[lavish creek]

True

Karta Polaka

#🧠｜serious-chat message

I also find ius ad soli more fair and having more sense but it's what it is

But ofc not only Europeans do that

Israel

UAE grad citizenship 3 times quickly if you are an Arab

Liberia demand person who wanna be naturalised to be black

[manic juniper]

How do you prove being black?

[lavish creek]

The modern concept of citizenship is cringe

[lavish creek]

Well delve into Israel and German court cases for example

I dunno about Liberia coz ig there are not so many people who wanna be citizens of this beautiful nation for some reason

[lavish creek]

#🧠｜serious-chat message

[quasi needle]

meh

in my eyes citizenship just means the right to have permanent residency in the country (and also avoid tax)

[manic juniper]

But I mean those are nationalities that can be extrapolated even from previous outdated documents

While being black is based purely off perception
Are Saharawis black? What about someone like the actress Erin Kellyman?

[lavish creek]

https://scholar.smu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=4173&context=smulr

[quasi needle]

"blacks" is a pretty neutered term i cant lie

mixed people now claim to be black

[lavish creek]

There are cases like the person who survived holocaust is not a Jew according to them coz he was baptized

[quasi needle]

its just become a cohort of people that are darker than simply tanned, even if they might not be distinctly black either

at least where i live

[lavish creek]

Now

Back days it was vise versa

[quasi needle]

im saying now because ive done no research into the history)

[manic juniper]

How do I prove being white if I never owned an horse and don't speak a white language

[quasi needle]

ive just noticed that many people claim to be black when they categorically would be "mixed"

[quasi needle]

uh.. your skin color?

[lavish creek]

I'm sure there are legal articles like that about proving being black

[lavish creek]

Weeeeeeeeeel

Not a good argument

[manic juniper]

Koreans are less dark than some Italians yet they're not white

[quasi needle]

you prove youre white by being "close enough" to being white. it just depends on the bounds which are set by the individuals

[manic juniper]

Why is that

[quasi needle]

well it depends how you categorize it

by white do you mean caucasian

or light skinned

[lavish creek]

You know real Caucasian people often called black

So you see the problem here right

[quasi needle]

i vaguely remember the origins of the word

[lavish creek]

Back days Irish wasn't considered white

[manic juniper]

No I'm not from Caucasus

I don't know what's considered white to be honest

[quasi needle]

bro used the 3rd definition 🙏😭

[manic juniper]

Are Komi-Zyrians and Turks white? 🐻‍❄️

[lavish creek]

Stupid American concept but

[quasi needle]

as i said its entirely set on bounds which havent been agreed

[manic juniper]

It's the first to me

From Caucasus→Caucasian

[lavish creek]

Slavic ppl are people of colour sooooo

[quasi needle]

each person has to REASONABLY decide if theyre closer to being black or white.

[manic juniper]

Why are Slavs included but not us, Slavs don't even herd reindeers... That's dumb af

[quasi needle]

you cant come out the womb like me as white as day and claim to be black

[lavish creek]

I really love your obsession with reindeers ngl

[quasi needle]

its just down to common sense

its just one of those things that are subjective

[manic juniper]

But Erin Kellyman could

[quasi needle]

let me google wh othat is...

[manic juniper]

She is a black redhead with white skin and freckles

[lavish creek]

Well

[quasi needle]

black...?

[manic juniper]

Her father is black

[quasi needle]

thats mixed

[lavish creek]

There were white-skinned ppl who pretend to be black or native americans

[manic juniper]

Would she be allowed in Liberia's program?

[quasi needle]

i hate the binary classification of blacks and whites

[lavish creek]

Why you so obsessed with that

Israel's law is not less cringe and vague

[quasi needle]

at the very least it should include mixed, otherwise you have people like this who claim to be black when the only dark color is in their hair

[lavish creek]

Or German

[quasi needle]

assuming she claimed it

otherwise ill refer to other people who did exactly that

[lavish creek]

It's just cringe anyway tbf

Just stupid American laws

[quasi needle]

it shouldnt matter anyways unless youre just describing who they are

[manic juniper]

She has features of British and whatever else is her other half

[quasi needle]

youre either white, black, or in between (mixed)

[lavish creek]

Back days there was a law about who CAN ME CONSIDERED WHITE

without Irish and many other folk

[quasi needle]

legislating the definition of skin colors is wild

[lavish creek]

Now it's vise versa

[lavish creek]

It wasn't about skin colours, more about CULTURE

Our Finnish sister would be considered non-white

As Irish and Italians

[manic juniper]

We weren't

[quasi needle]

so.. by "considered white" does that just mean considered an ethnic european

[manic juniper]

There are signs that say Indians (native Americans) and Finns not allowed in Minnesotan pubs

[lavish creek]

Black and Irish ppl were the same kind of ppl for kkk

[quasi needle]

the kkk hated irish people too ?

thats something new

[lavish creek]

It's well known

[manic juniper]

But that's the thing, wtf is an ethnic European when you have nomads or people that live between borders like Caucasians or Uralic people

[quasi needle]

ive never looked into the kkk

[manic juniper]

Irish people were called inside out N words or something like that

Kind of funny

[lavish creek]

I will send you articles about it tomorrow

Just remind me

[manic juniper]

"Finns now allowed" should be normalised in Estonia

[quasi needle]

i honestly dont know. id just play it safe and say anyone who can trace their lineage back to the anglo saxon period and still be in europe

[manic juniper]

We are a national shame

[manic juniper]

Hungarians may not be allowed

[lavish creek]

Back days white is more about "civilized nation"

[quasi needle]

im as white as (unused) toilet paper and my family literally hasnt even left my city for generations. my last name derived from my dad's side dates back to the anglo-saxons and the last name from my mother's side dates back to the normans

[lavish creek]

Sami and many others weren't white in that classification

[quasi needle]

so id consider myself ethnically european

[manic juniper]

Is this why we weren't included

[lavish creek]

It's why there was norwegianizathion

[manic juniper]

https://yle.fi/a/3-12150787

[lavish creek]

Yeap

[manic juniper]

Scandinavians can only destroy, never create

[lavish creek]

You need to be ashamed about what Ur people did to Celtic ppl

Kneel

[quasi needle]

i dont need to be ashamed about anything

[lavish creek]

(just kidding)

[quasi needle]

the people who did that have nothing to do with ME‼️ 🛡️🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[manic juniper]

Themselves basically

[lavish creek]

RULE BRITANNIA

[manic juniper]

Hungarians→they destroyed themselves
Anglo-Saxons→they destroyed themselves
Prussians→they kinda destroyed themselves

[quasi needle]

they didnt really destroy themselves

they just evolved into new civilizations

[lavish creek]

Yea that's Prussian twist is something

Literally destroyed everything

[manic juniper]

I'm talking about the real Prussians

Not those G*rmans

[lavish creek]

2 ww actually simply because those dudes existed

[lavish creek]

Ye I got it

[quasi needle]

delete austria

no world wars ever again

[manic juniper]

We had Austria here

[lavish creek]

Nice flag mate

[manic juniper]

She also destroyed herself

[quasi needle]

well tbh even if not for the franz ferdinand debacle ww1 wouldve happened

tensions were messed up EVERYWHERE it was bound to happen

[lavish creek]

What Franz did ?

Just existed ?

[manic juniper]

He supported Turanism

[quasi needle]

archduke franz ferdinand was assassinated cause some serbians hated him or something

!! i love europe

[lavish creek]

Good lad

[manic juniper]

His stupidity earned him his death

[lavish creek]

So it's his fault?

[quasi needle]

serbs hate everything

[manic juniper]

It was a Serbian terrorist organisation but it was based

[quasi needle]

no, this was just the boiling point after a long string of rising tensions

[lavish creek]

Mlada Bosna

[quasi needle]

it was going to happen anyways

it was my fault. im sorry for causing ww1

[lavish creek]

Shame on you

[quasi needle]

☹️

[lavish creek]

You destroyed my beloved Europe

[quasi needle]

europe had it coming

it has no walmarts... disgusting...

too little tescos

[lavish creek]

If not that we would totally assimilate all Fino-ugoric people

[lavish creek]

Just reading Stivin King rn lol

He really loves Walmart

[quasi needle]

ive only been once in my life

when i went on vacation to florida

[lavish creek]

I have never been there

[quasi needle]

dude there was an AISLE for BUCKETS of CHEESE BALLS

?????????

[lavish creek]

Why

[quasi needle]

america loves unhealthy junk

[lavish creek]

Why would one ever need that

[quasi needle]

its just jammed with additives so people love them

[manic juniper]

You cannot assimilate the Mongols without turning into them

[lavish creek]

Do you like Dan Carlin ?

[lavish creek]

Never tried cheese balls tbh

[manic juniper]

I've never heard of him

[quasi needle]

They’re so unhealthy it’s insane

American supermarket food is a biohazard

[lavish creek]

Well if they choose trump and there would be no food regulations God help them

[lavish creek]

I mean product composition

[manic juniper]

Why did Poland make Lithuania more cringe

At least it spared Lithuania from German cringe

[worn bolt]

👀

[glad galleon]

Does anyone knows who Iman gadzhi is?

[faint moon]

Hi

[unborn shuttle]

Heya

[shy summit]

I want to make something ABSOLUTELY clear in this channel going forward.

Any downplaying of genocides, talks of advocating for the deaths/suicides of protected classes, or the deaths of innocents, children or otherwise, will be met with an immediate repercussion.

[sour spade]

I want to have a recommendation about my first paragraph for my statement of purpose. It explains who I am

Have you ever heard about Persona? If you haven't, let me explain you. It’s a video game where you’re a high student who is transferred to a new city and must take care of himself from now on. He must make social relationships, discovers new areas, learn new skills, upgrade social stats, train his body, study A LOT and occasionally fight monsters (a young adult typical routine). You, who are reading this, must think why on earth I decided to begin this paragraph like that, ‘he could be crazy’ (crossed to your mind) but I have a good reason. This one is that during my whole university I did those things as the videogame character did. I feel relieved because I did my very best until my last breath. That’s how I achieve a wonderful girlfriend; the best chemical engineers friend’s group; found the research area that I dream to study (Process Design in renewable energies); improved many soft skills (Effective communication, Leadership, time management, discipline…); learned how to be encyclopedic, dauntless, skilled, emphatic and charismatic; Upgraded my body going to the gym 5/7 and cycling everywhere every day; Become the best student in my carrier (GPA 4.63/5.0); But I miss the part about fighting… If I had the opportunity, I’ll do it.

[lusty terrace]

I love Bharat street food

[indigo agate]

You mean during the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth?

[indigo agate]

Send pics -

[lusty terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/iftari-iftar-bazar-bangladeshi-iftar-halim-bangladesh-gif-21314579

[indigo agate]

Ngl I don't like the visuals of it

I'm dissapointed

Perhaps it's yum, but I only have my eyes to witness

[lusty terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/dirty-indian-food-dirty-indian-street-food-man-washing-hands-in-food-gif-13202891368195735937

how about this?

[indigo agate]

nah

[lusty terrace]

though its humble appearance, its clean and hygienic

[indigo agate]

Perhaps

[indigo agate]

this however doesn't look particularly hygienic

[lusty terrace]

what do you like?

[indigo agate]

ur suspicious

and this is a serious chat, this conversation probably shouldn't be here

[lusty terrace]

why u calling this not serious?

but, a mod told me to talking about bharat street food on this channel

[indigo agate]

I see, sorry then, I thought you were trolling

[lusty terrace]

the reasons

[indigo agate]

your name starts with "deleted_user_", the pictures you sent seem like pretty bad examples, and you seem to not be aware of it, you didn't explain what food is made of or how it tastes, you only sent pictures as if it was supposed to be only about the food's appearances which aren't their best attributes

It confused me

I mean it still does

[pale crater]

questionnn
what is the UN, and why do people refer to it as the AntiChrist?

[indigo agate]

Do you have any more context?

[pale crater]

uh not really, kinda just heard about it

[indigo agate]

I searched for it and it shows me "United Nations" and it doesn't really fit ;c

[pale crater]

yea UN is abbreviation for that i think

[indigo agate]

O, I forgot I can't send pics

But there is apparently an anarchist band "Chumbawamba" that made an album called "Un"

maybe it's that?

[pale crater]

well i tried looking it up and it mentioned United Nations
i didnt really understand it all that well and the only thing i could kinda figure out is that they arent really friends with religions i think

[manic juniper]

Earlier, with the union of Horodło

[lusty terrace]

I haven't tried em yet

so i dont know what do they taste llike

black is a social construct

gay is a social construct

yes, indians look like indians

fair enough

[indigo agate]

Poland at that time used to be an oligarchy run by the aristocracy, full of corruption with a doubtful system of veto. Lithuania was kinda big and "pagan", it was the time of the biggest power of the Catholic Church and Knights of the Cross . Being christianised gave the country more safety and political power and allies. Poland was christian, was close and the king was an available maiden. Jagiello thought he was doing his country a favour and our king also tried her best in the sectors she had control over. I'm not rly good at history perhaps someone better will come

agree

I thought it would be Scandinavians coz they are the highest?

I imagine Faroese being like one small village tbh

The islands are stunning tho ;-;

I mean them apparently having a phone book is so wholesome to me

It can't be that much if they could fit it in a "book"

[feral river]

What do you guys think about the first fold phone with 3 screens attached up could assemble a tablet

That was developed by company supported by CCP, Huawei

Next generation of phone will kill the tablet market

[turbid harbor]

beeg iphone bad

[lusty terrace]

if u are not afraid of colibacillus, keep buying iphones

[young sand]

Hey any thoughts on getting a credit card as a student with no part time job or earning?

[turbid harbor]

credit debt trap is dangerous

[young sand]

I see...

So no?

[turbid harbor]

yes

get a job instead however humble

[young sand]

Yeah I wanted to join a coaching and they said to pay fees using a credit card

So I'm confused if they are genuine or not

[turbid harbor]

what the fuck

no dont accept why would a job ask you to pay fees like that

[feral river]

Just avoid the trap and earn points and credits then you can debt more money

[young sand]

They said they'll upskill us

[feral river]

When your credit reached a point you can instantly borrow a lot of money from bank, you can start your business with 0 cash

[young sand]

But I doubt the bank allows me to use credit card as I'm not working yet

[feral river]

That’s why I always use credit card no matter what

And just pay off your bill before the interest fee is charged

[turbid harbor]

most upskills are a scam ngl, i would walk on the offer very carefully if i were you

[feral river]

You will be okay

[young sand]

Yeah I guess that'll work

[feral river]

BE SURE YOU CAN DO THAT

[young sand]

I see.. I'm more confused now
I've to pay 31k to them

[young sand]

Yeah I can.. but I'm doubting the institution now..

[feral river]

I heard that can used for do tax evasion in America but idk how

[turbid harbor]

im just not as privileged as Minecraft here to find loopholes to fulfill credit rates, let alone pay them up normally to begin with. family's got awful experience with debts and their collectors so im drawing my perspective from that, which's indistuinguishable from any majority from a mediocre economic background

[young sand]

Ohhh, plus no interest EMI too.. so it's easy also a bit strange

[turbid harbor]

that's a suspiciously high amount of fee to pay, and youre unemployed. they're preying on you

[feral river]

Hummm I’m a capitalist I can handle that but yeah that may cause a lot of trouble with mismanagement

[young sand]

Yeah same.. I don't know, guess I'll have to trust them more and go for it by making a full payment with UPI instead of credit card

[feral river]

Even some credit card companies offer you some percentage returns, free flights, free hotels

For just let you keep use your credit card

Well in China they offer health insurance and coupons instead

[turbid harbor]

idk what a UPI is but an employment process that requires you to blow up your entire saving is largely indicative of a very shabby job. this practice is common among startups

[young sand]

Ah I see, I had no idea about these benefits.. I mean that's good

[turbid harbor]

im really leaning towards ditching this offer off because its very volatile and find other honest jobs instead. there's no shame in working a blue collar job and it poses much less risk than trudging through shady upskilling startups that charge you ridiculously money to maintain your employment every once in a while

[young sand]

Yeah but you know coaching centres?
That will guarantee you a job after completing a course or something like that 🙂

[feral river]

Yeah but the premise is, you can manage it correctly

[young sand]

Absolutely.. will probably can get one after I start my career and earn

[feral river]

I don’t have much credits now but I’m going to improve it I’m just a young guy 22 years old stucked in school

That was literally fucked

[young sand]

Ah that's impressive tho you know a lot of information about things

[turbid harbor]

no, i dont, but i dont take job guarantees for granted because it'll be too convenient. they'll ensure your employment with suspicious commitments you need to do, but then again im not trying to discourage you because youre in a tight spot and you seem to be complying to advices on setting up credit cards, so no warnings will get pass you

good luck though

[young sand]

Yeah I guess I'm in a tight spot.
Can't really figure out if that's good or not as it's very necessary for me rn

Thank you @turbid harbor hanaaru!!

[turbid harbor]

don't thank me i barely helped 😭

[young sand]

Nah you did help me and it means a lot 😌

[inland sphinx]

Hi guys

I'm looking for ways to earn so I could finance my education alongside.

Any tips?

[quasi needle]

Depends what the fees are

The best way here is to be a basic store worker

[turbid harbor]

what fees are you trying to finance? are they tuitions?

[quasi needle]

But that isn’t directly financing, you only have to pay back fees after you earn a certain amount of money, then it’s only 9% of your income that you pay like a tax

[feral river]

That’s a lot

We don’t pay that tax in China

[quasi needle]

Chinese university fees are the exact same as the UK

[feral river]

what ?

you mean what university

private university ?

[quasi needle]

I said it’s LIKE a tax, it isn’t a literal tax

[feral river]

oh so like extra money they charges you

[quasi needle]

No

Tuition is anywhere up to £9,250

[feral river]

that was insane

[quasi needle]

Chinese tuition is up to $9,300

[feral river]

well nah actually

[quasi needle]

They are not dissimilar, especially when UK universities are some of the best in the world

[feral river]

public universities just charges you up to $3000

private one charges you maybe $6000

[quasi needle]

thank you autocorrect

[feral river]

not that much

I know UK universities charges a lot

[quasi needle]

(Out of the top 10 universities in the world, at least 3/4 are British)

[feral river]

even some universities in China for some region of people, they can get tuition free

and they can get tuition cut if they can be defined to poor family or low income families

[lusty terrace]

are u a Joseonjok?

[quasi needle]

My signal is dying

“You can also find several programmes with no tuition fees. These are usually offered by universities from other countries (e.g. the UK, Germany, Denmark), which have campuses in China”

TL;DR you only have to pay back your tuition fee when you earn a certain amount of money (it varies on which type of loan you have), then it takes 3-9% out of your income each paycheck. you don’t ever consciously pay it, it just deducts from your income

[turbid harbor]

thats very convenient

[quasi needle]

After 20-40 years you don’t need to pay it back anymore, even if you haven’t repaid it all

again that length depends on the plan you have (there’s 5 plans)

[turbid harbor]

how does this work

https://x.com/AP/status/1834014416934744473 LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

The Associated Press (@AP) on X

BREAKING: Alberto Fujimori, a former president of Peru who was convicted for human rights abuses, dies at 86 https://t.co/njwWG19LOU

Twitter · Sep 11, 2024, 11:41 PM

dying on exactly the same date only 3 years apart is crazy gonzalo's coming after him on fours with frothing fangs

https://tenor.com/view/michael-jordan-packwatch-rip-bozo-walking-l-goat-gif-24917561

rip this shithead though

WAIT THEY BOTH DIED AT 86 WHAT ARE THE ODDS

[feral river]

it should be more if your british empire can maintain till today

I still have no idea on why you guys give up so much core territories

Canada, Australia, New Zealand, those are literally british core territories

[turbid harbor]

ok presumptuous politics is getting a tad bit unoriginal and boring so i wanna ask something i think barely exists but ive experienced and received enough treatments formed by it from other people to word my thoughts: is it a real feeling that you need to assure yourself on your inferiority in intelligence or skilled compared to someone by digging into their background?

it's like you're trying to find causes behind how this person managed to be miles better, because youre working under this slightly cynical assumption that they come from a rich enough background with better tools or spaces to train their skills or meditate on a subject.

then after your hunches are proven you can cower behind very backhanded thoughts about that person's capabilities, like a self-validation thing where its like, "oh no wonder this guy's smart he could afford this and that and never had their focus bothered by other, more crucial things in life. he's very privileged!"

[feral river]

someone just want to be privileged in their dream, not in real life, that's why they behave like what you depicted

it's a shame of yourself on comparing with others

[turbid harbor]

i dont follow

[lavish creek]

Barak O'bama (kidding)

[manic juniper]

The Daily Mail, the dumbest online newspaper ever conceived

[manic juniper]

Honestly if you argue with someone smarter than you are you should feel proud for wasting their time

[whole beacon]

[manic juniper]

Are you Polish?

[feral river]

I feel offended cuz I spend too much time with some stupid guys

[still turtle]

Hi guys, I'm good at English. However, I want to be advanced. Does anybody have any tips for me? I want to improve on my vocabulary and grammar too.

[real monolith]

https://tenor.com/view/me-too-me-too-kid-incredibles-gif-19919940

[dapper laurel]

Even Hitler said it

[feral river]

😭

[heavy crescent]

Yesterday was 9/11

[peak widget]

Crazy

The thing i dont like is that it makes islam look bad even tho it's not related

[manic juniper]

I bet that reptiles also feel like that

[lean sparrow]

Yep

Everyone

Which country people are the smartest!!!...

[manic juniper]

Moldova

Finland, why

Yes, I have restricted friend requests and DMs

[turbid harbor]

you meant countryside folk or

[lean sparrow]

Intelligence persons

[manic juniper]

Deleted messages 🤔

https://tenor.com/view/latvia-latvija-latvian-funny-latvietis-gif-4586608020589655683

[lean sparrow]

Can't understand

[prisma cipher]

Today is 9/12

[true lark]

I'm European, today is 12-9-2024

[main bison]

which country

[lean sparrow]

12 sep

Asia

[true lark]

I'm dutch

[manic juniper]

Me neither

[lean sparrow]

Oh I see

[prisma cipher]

Why he deleted messages about education

[feral river]

Democratic People's Republic of Korea

🤣

[manic juniper]

Does your sister hold the same opinions as you do?

[simple mantle]

Tunisia

[feral river]

no she's a liberal marxist

you may confuse to this concept incorporate between liberal and marxist

she is prone to be empathy and progressive (Chinese concept of progressive for example peaceful unification of taiwan)

[manic juniper]

Typical

[feral river]

and pursuing the marxist communist utopia, not an authoritarian or dictatorship

and she also have open mind on western civilization and ideas

but not caring that much lol, I don't think girls are sensitive to politics

u know we from a middle class family not so rich but we have money to do something we can do

she ever go to Australia

[manic juniper]

Because she likes western countries or other reasons?

I also want to visit Australia wtf

[feral river]

well nah she can't even speak proper english

she just think omg western countries cool and fucked up at the same time

how it can be that ?

at least she don't spend that much money

[manic juniper]

I think the same of many countries such as Estonia or Papua New Guinea

[feral river]

hummm for me I think the real western countries is only like america, canada, australia, new zealand, and western europe

or just america, australia, and western europe

canada, new zealand, and other places, like a puppet state of the west or US-led order

only US, Australia, Britain, France has some rights to decide their own shit

[manic juniper]

New Zealand and Canada are just as independent as Australia by the way

Especially New Zealand, it's a pretty unique country by the way it works

[feral river]

yeah they are independent but dependent on the Australia and US respectively

[manic juniper]

On trade but they also depend on China, I wouldn't say they are controlled just because of that

[feral river]

not only trade but the regional security

I don't see New Zealand's army even powerful than ROC

and Canadian....

[manic juniper]

Is Finland western to you?

[feral river]

nah

[manic juniper]

They are pretty tame

[manic juniper]

Why is that

[feral river]

I don't think you guys are in the axis of western order

america, britain, france those are the real axis or big boys of western order

[manic juniper]

I think that was true in the 50s and 60s but we are pretty close today

[manic juniper]

No I'm not saying that we are big players, I'm talking about being western in itself

[feral river]

nah you guys just don't have enough power if you are close enough

[manic juniper]

Basically you see being western as having a big influence too?

[feral river]

if you united the entire or annexed Sweden I would consider you guys are a great power

[manic juniper]

If yes that makes sense. We are not

[feral river]

yeah basically

[manic juniper]

We had the power to annex some of their territories once but I don't know how they would've reacted to that

[feral river]

or invade Russia ? took over the Leningrad

[manic juniper]

The Nordic countries and the Baltics should form a federation in my opinion but there are too many things in the way of making it possible

[manic juniper]

We annexed parts of Russia in the past already, read about Heimosodat if you're interested

[feral river]

not really possible that would challenge the US's influence in this region

[feral river]

I see...

[manic juniper]

Is Netherlands western? It has an insane productive output

[feral river]

nah

they are Belgium of Germans

the typical western puppet

they can never be the axis power

[manic juniper]

Would that be France, UK, Germany and Italy in Europe?

[feral river]

expect Italy yes

France, UK, Germany those are western states not really dependent that much on the other states

[sweet salmon]

hii everyone hows the day

[manic juniper]

It has a powerful army too

[feral river]

at least their crucial industries and technologies were fully own by themselves

[manic juniper]

And large productive output and population

[feral river]

nah Italian war performance... I don't wanna talk about that

[manic juniper]

Yeah but that was in the past, only their fleet was strong but the British had the first radars in the world

[dapper laurel]

NO, WE ARE ROME

[manic juniper]

Italians were ill equipped, even Romanians had better equipment

Romanians and Hungarians did more for the Axis than the Italians did

[dapper laurel]

We have subdued all of known Europe and made the English our shoe shiners

We are also the most influential country in the world n shiet

[feral river]

even now I don't think Italians were capitulated would be a huge affect to the west

but France, German, Britain will be

[feral river]

🤣 yeah that's Rome

[manic juniper]

How, they are one of the strongest militaries and one of the largest contributors in the EU to finance the development of less developed countries