🧠｜serious-chat

[thorn lagoon]

lol they were saying ccp crackdown of uighur separatist into jail to be genocide of common uighur people

[thorn lagoon]

that prison photo

that went viral

[marsh robin]

But this guy shows evidence. I don't say 100% true but at least I have something to say

[marsh robin]

Are u rejecting genocide and concentration camp

They learn it from satellite footage

Have you ever listened to Uyhur Turks

[thorn lagoon]

its a prison photo lmao

not concentration camp

[thorn lagoon]

you mean arab and cia funded uighur separatist ?

[marsh robin]

They usually limit their human rights

[marsh robin]

Ok that is enough to talk with u... No more comments. Although Arab countries ignore them how can u lie like that

[thorn lagoon]

separatist doesnt deserve fundamental rights ...because they question the legitimacy of the state itself and its sovereignty .Atleast ccp aint execute them but instead reforming these separatist

in islamic country , anyone who apostasizes are killed

no reform

[astral pagoda]

In which islamic country?

[thorn lagoon]

However, in at least 10 countries around the world 'apostasy', which is the act of leaving religion, is punishable by death. These countries are: Afghanistan, Brunei Darussalam, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

[astral pagoda]

Why egypt is not in the list

[thorn lagoon]

You want egypt on it ?

[astral pagoda]

Why not

we have that

Any christian woman who declares converting into islam

She disappears from existence

[thorn lagoon]

its about muslim leaving islam tho

[astral pagoda]

it's not official in egypt but it happens

[astral pagoda]

In egypt it's about christians

[thorn lagoon]

christians killing people for apostasy ?

in a muslim majority country ?

i doubt it

[astral pagoda]

they disappear
they get kidnapped

I said it's not official

[marsh robin]

It happens like India... They torture also Muslims

[thorn lagoon]

Hahah nice joke

[marsh robin]

So common stuffs in the world

[thorn lagoon]

i have read somewhere .I will back it up my claims later

[marsh robin]

Cia based propaganda 🤡

[thorn lagoon]

sure

[marsh robin]

Why are u oppressor u have to be like Gandhi 🙃

[thorn lagoon]

Gandhi was a racist

and non-violence and pacifism is a cuuuck ideology

[marsh robin]

Didn't he save you

[thorn lagoon]

which should be abandoned

[astral pagoda]

what is cuuuck

[thorn lagoon]

https://www.sahistory.org.za/archive/some-gandhis-early-views-africans-were-racist-was-he-became-mahatma-es-reddy-wire-18

[thorn lagoon]

the word is banned here

the bot blovked it

[astral pagoda]

give a synonem

[thorn lagoon]

a weak or servile man

[thorn lagoon]

He didnt save us

[marsh robin]

https://tenor.com/view/hello-gandhi-jayanti-gifkaro-greeting-wishes-gif-20950338

[thorn lagoon]

https://tenor.com/view/donald-trump-cuck-gif-9307085

[thorn lagoon]

How many christians are there in egypt ?

[astral pagoda]

In Islam, no one can deny killing people for apostasy. But they have the right to leave Islam secertly. No one will search after them to know whether they are Muslims or not.

There are 5 goals of shari'aa:
religion (afterlife & faith)
Life
Mind
Progeny
Property (Wealth)
Declaring leaving Islam and spreading atheism or other religions is not allowed. You can still have arguments with Specialists in Islam with people listening to your debate.

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, apostate are executed in a state with sharia law

[astral pagoda]

4 - 8 millions
It's not accurate though
The church refused to acknowlege the statistics made in 2012

[thorn lagoon]

Why ?

[astral pagoda]

Do you think muslims consider this life more important?
It's all about priorities.
No one is allowed to spread atheism among the public who doesn't have enough knowledge to discuss apostates. In fact, most of muslims don't know what they have to know about Islam/

[astral pagoda]

They don't wanna acknowledge they are a minority.

[thorn lagoon]

Hence , my comparison with separatists to apostates

[astral pagoda]

They don't stop talking about that we are all egyptians even though no one cares.
They are a minority.

[astral pagoda]

who are separatists?

[thorn lagoon]

people who want to secede

[thorn lagoon]

uighur muslims

[astral pagoda]

was xinjiang an independent state?

[thorn lagoon]

it was part of the qing dynasty

and ccp rightfully inherit the territory

[astral pagoda]

It experienced a brief period of independence in the 1940s, but China regained control after the Communists took power in 1949. Its full name is the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. It is home to the Turkic-speaking Muslim Uyghur minority.

[thorn lagoon]

BASED

[astral pagoda]

it's like india invading Bangladesh

I still don't know the relation between separatists and apostates

[thorn lagoon]

Both try to usurper and try to undermine the authority of the state.
That's why Mohammed executed apostates as they are traitors to the state itself.
In the ideal muslim state, there is no separation between the religion and state

Questioning the religion is questioning the state

Like what the separatists do

So, china has every right to execute these uighur muslim for treason and separatism

But, they are working on reformism and re-education

[astral pagoda]

China is secular

[thorn lagoon]

Ccp is very kind hearted

[thorn lagoon]

India is not currently that strong to annex Bangladesh

Maybe in the future, we will see

[astral pagoda]

yeah but 2 cases are the same

[thorn lagoon]

But, I don't think India invading and annexing Bangladesh is immoral so

[marsh robin]

If İndia execute Muslims one day this j..k will support as I see..

[astral pagoda]

Power knows nothing about morals

[thorn lagoon]

Iam explaining how separatism and apostasy have the same undertone in an islamic country

[astral pagoda]

But china is not islamic

[thorn lagoon]

You agreed with executing apostates and now you're talking about morality?
Preety rich

[thorny steeple]

but there is a part of china

[astral pagoda]

it's not allowed to change religion here because we are a muslim state
but why is it a problem in a secular state?

and Excuting apostates is not for the sake of country, it's for the faith and afterlife
atheists believe that punishment should only be for crimes related to this life

And it's okay to spread atheism among us so that we lose the afterlife

[thorny steeple]

but there are a groups of moors living together

[astral pagoda]

there are 2 groups of muslims in china

[mortal charm]

So you justify the capital punishment ?

[astral pagoda]

executing apostates is immoral when you're atheist
muslims have their faith as a priority

If you wanna leave islam, do it, but don't spread atheism
If you wanna have a debate, do it with experts, not normal people who are not qualified enough for debating

[astral pagoda]

I do
what is the problem?

[mortal charm]

Don't be surprised why islamophobia is rising then

[thorn lagoon]

I wasn't talking about executing apostates in China.
Iam saying as apostasy is a form of treason in islam (undermining the state itself ) and they are justified being executed ,China also has every right to execute these muslim separatist

[astral pagoda]

So you're judging islam based on your standards?

[haughty forge]

They won't be able to do that in future as well cause they don't have any ally in south asia to support them.

[mortal charm]

Based on their barbaric culture and practices yes

Some cultures are better then others

[astral pagoda]

and how do you determine you have the best standards?

[mortal charm]

Why all your refugees move to the west and not to Saudi Arabia

Why no Palestinian refugees go to Egypt

[astral pagoda]

I didn't say saudi represents islam

[mortal charm]

Why to the west

Does the west represent Islam?

[thorn lagoon]

Egyptians don't like muslim Palestinian refugees

[unique light]

So that's why you guys want sharia law in Germany, right?

[astral pagoda]

Who said that

[mortal charm]

They're already allying the left in the UK

[unique light]

There was an Islamist protest in Germany recently

People want to bring sharia law to Germany

[mortal charm]

Have you seen that protest in Canada lol

"Soon Muslims will be the majority right in your face"

[astral pagoda]

I didn't said that either
it's just that muslim countries are no longer muslim countries
they want to be nationalisms

But, egypt still has millions of refuges.
sudaneese and syrians

[mortal charm]

Why are the majority of refugees run to the west

And worse then that why they keep promoting the same ideologies they ran away from inside Europe rn

[astral pagoda]

depening on the nearest country
Turkey is the nearest for syrians

[astral pagoda]

they ran from al asad

[mortal charm]

Lebanon Iraq Jordan

[astral pagoda]

anti al asad live in the north

[unique light]

Your country - your culture, our countries - our culture. You have your own religion, we have our own religion, I don't mind you being Muslim in a Christian country, but please, be respectful to my religion, don't try to bring your culture and religion to my country

[mortal charm]

As if they're better lol

Al nusra are also barbaric islamists

Or whatever their name is rn tahrir al sham

[astral pagoda]

So, you refuse anyone who shows their culture on them like hijab?

[unique light]

I don't mind anyone wearing a hijab, just don't ask me to become a Muslim and don't bring sharia law to my country

[mortal charm]

Can a western woman walk without a hijab in an arab country ?

[round slate]

I love your use of punctuation,

[astral pagoda]

even egyptians don't wear it 😂

[round slate]

Depends on the country.

[astral pagoda]

You can refuse
no one forces you to be muslim

[marsh robin]

Some Russian refugees also do missionary stuffs in Türkiye so not just Muslims. I also don't approve that if it's illegal and disrespectful

[mortal charm]

Then why all the protests

[unique light]

What's this then?

[round slate]

whhaatt

[mortal charm]

Doing missionary stuff is different than protesting for sharia law

In a foreign country

[astral pagoda]

Islamic countries have rules
And western countries have their rules

Where do you rules say it's forbidden to show any foreign culture?

[prisma cipher]

Oo be respectful and wait when they will be respectful back.

[round slate]

this chat is somehow giving me ptsd

[astral pagoda]

Nice link

[prisma cipher]

[mortal charm]

That is what we are trying to promote

[marsh robin]

Lol

[astral pagoda]

Your countries are liberal though

[mortal charm]

Sadly

[astral pagoda]

Are you christian?

[mortal charm]

Hopefully that will change soon

[mortal charm]

Jewish

[unique light]

I'm not against Islam or Muslims, I just want people not to dictate their rules in the country that doesn't belong to them

[marsh robin]

Then I don't want any thing related to communism if someone protest or demonstrate about it shall I arrest them 🤔

[astral pagoda]

Change to what?

[thorn lagoon]

They have to pay jizya

[mortal charm]

I don't mind communism is terrible

[marsh robin]

Ohh dude 🤦🏻

[astral pagoda]

In that case, secular countries should ban wearing jewish hat

[marsh robin]

I just gave example

[astral pagoda]

and they are not forced to join the military as muslims have

[mortal charm]

Do Jews blow themselves up in public and promote their religious laws in the west ?

[unique light]

I've never seen any of them yelling to bring their religion to the country they live in, asking others to convert to their religion

[marsh robin]

And Muslims have to pay Zekhat ?? Don't u get forced to pay taxes another countries or military services

[prisma cipher]

at one point there will be so many of them that you will become a minority that has no rights and no one will treat you with respect, continue to respect all religions

[unique light]

Already happens

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, respecting other's religion is also another scam and cuuck ideology

[marsh robin]

U can be right about it. I can't reject at all but if they do that in legal way or properly

[astral pagoda]

Do muslims kill children in schools?
When someone blows himself, he must be a muslim
but when someone kills children in schools, he is a psycho

[mortal charm]

How does that affect western society

[marsh robin]

Lol nice manipulator.

[prisma cipher]

[marsh robin]

Also promote being racist fool

[mortal charm]

There's a difference between openly doing this declaring it is for Allah or God

[astral pagoda]

I heard that jewish religion is not missionary.
it's not the same as christianity and islam
it's an ethnicity

[unique light]

I don't think so

[marsh robin]

Being against ideology is different then being against a group of people. U can't generalize everyone ok

[vagrant swan]

we call them terrorist too

[mortal charm]

Ok why are Christians in Arabia countries being opressed like the copts in Egypt or assyrians in Syria

[astral pagoda]

No
blaming islam when they are muslims but you don't blame others

[astral pagoda]

who told they are opressed in egypt?

[marsh robin]

They dig tunnels and undermine city. Is it enough

[astral pagoda]

Don't you know what would happen if you criticize Christianity?
Ahmed Suba'i went to jail because of them

[unique light]

Russia is uncivilized enough to disrespect everyone 🙂

[unique light]

Did I say that I blame Islam and Muslims?

[mortal charm]

https://www.christiandaily.com/news/coptic-christians-are-attacked-in-two-villages-in-egypt.html

[marsh robin]

Yeah Westerns never torture and oppress Muslims

[prisma cipher]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-smile-jack-nicholson-yes-nod-gif-14306654

[astral pagoda]

Okay
there are extrimest
but the rules are for them, not against

[astral pagoda]

When he is a muslim , this is because of islam
when he is non-muslim, he is mentally ill

[mortal charm]

Ok then any alt right attack against Muslims is ok because there are extremists everywhere right?

[astral pagoda]

@mortal charm hey
you are the guy who doesn't support capital punishment?

[unique light]

What the

[mortal charm]

I support capital punishment for certain crimes not for apostasy

[astral pagoda]

I saw this before

[astral pagoda]

Your problem was with capital punishment at first

[mortal charm]

With capital punishment against apostates yes

[marsh robin]

Shall I become anti Chris because of it

[thorn lagoon]

Oh, then, you don't need to bring up white school shooter.
American school shooting cases arent motivated by religion

[astral pagoda]

6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

[marsh robin]

When Westerners interrupted middle east and Africa immigration increased that's all

[astral pagoda]

So crimes aren't necessarily motivated by religion?

[mortal charm]

100% against that

[thorn lagoon]

American school shooting cases aren't motivated by religion

[astral pagoda]

Supporting al asad and others is enough

[thorn lagoon]

I was talking about school shooting thing

Not any crime

[astral pagoda]

So religion is not the problem
because it's not necessarily to be muslim to do crimes

[astral pagoda]

You are jewish

don't you believe in the old part of the bible before jesus

[mortal charm]

I don't believe in implementing biblical law in western society though

[astral pagoda]

are those crimes okay?

[astral pagoda]

You are secular

[mortal charm]

I don't preach Judaism and try to force my religion upon others

I believe in God

[thorn lagoon]

Religion is also a problem and also an important cause for many crimes

[astral pagoda]

secular means to separate religion from the country laws

[thorn lagoon]

No, but we can make distinctions between these crimes

[mortal charm]

Whyd you move to secular countries then if you are clearly not

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, very hypocritical and disingenuous

Ngl

[unique light]

Usually happens in countries like USA (Weapons are allowed), Russia (Happened 2-3 times in a couple of years time)

A siege in Beslan school was done by Caucaisan terrorists, they're mostly Muslims

But that doesn't mean that Muslims are terrorists, one was done by a Christian back in 2020 I presume

I'm talking about this guy

[mortal charm]

Difference is they don't chant christ is king while doing these

[thorn lagoon]

christ-church shooting ?

in new zealand

iirc

i saw the video

he livestreamed the whole incident

[thorn lagoon]

Does Bangladesh have nukes?

China is buying brides from Pakistan.
What the hell

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thehindu.com/news/international/629-pakistanis-sold-as-brides-in-china/article30169685.ece/amp/

[haughty forge]

No we don't. But India can't use its nukes because of international laws too.

[thorn lagoon]

Hmm

"international laws "

[haughty forge]

Bangladesh is currently the only ally of India in south Asia. So triggering a war won't help them any way.

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah

It is Pakistan that needs to be annexed

[haughty forge]

They got usa on their side

[dapper laurel]

Where did you find it?

[thorn lagoon]

It was a long time ago
It was spread in twitter and was there on liveleak too

I saw it both from liveleak and twitter

First seeing violence of that kind on the internet

[haughty forge]

I remember , it was during a cricket series between Bangladesh and New Zealand

[thorn lagoon]

Did bangladesh win ?

[haughty forge]

Nope

[thorn lagoon]

I dont like cricket

[haughty forge]

I too prefer football more

[thorn lagoon]

Very boring game personally speaking

[thorn lagoon]

Yup

[haughty forge]

Death overs of T20 games are fun

[thorn lagoon]

I don't know what's the difference

[thorn lagoon]

very cool

[astral pagoda]

Electricity went off for an hour

In Egypt, we have 23h access to electricity, 20h access to water.

I think it's enough for me of debating and arguing

[mortal charm]

Whys that

[astral pagoda]

It's very exhausting to my brain

[astral pagoda]

SISI want money to pay back his debts

[mortal charm]

Rip

So much for buying both russian and American equipment

[astral pagoda]

SISI SISI SISI SISI SISI
I think his name is funny

[astral pagoda]

No
For building bridges instead of factories and farmland

[mortal charm]

Nothing funnier than Israeli names

Bibi bogi bentzi

[astral pagoda]

Sisisisisissisissisi

Is sisi ISIS

[mortal charm]

Isis the organization or isis the ancient Egyptian God

Or both

[astral pagoda]

ISIS the double is word

[thorn lagoon]

Egypt used to be center of civilization

not anymore

[mortal charm]

So did Iraq

And the steppes

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, ,mesopotamian

Only Indian and chinese civilazation has some sense of continuity

in the sense that their indegenous traditions are still being followed

[mortal charm]

Mmm I guess yeah

[thorn lagoon]

jews too

most of these white neo pagans seems like they are larping

there is no continuity

[manic juniper]

The Sámi

[mortal charm]

White neopagans?

[manic juniper]

I don't know, there are still Europeans that keep practicing the same cults from thousands of years ago, like the Mari

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, it's a revivalist movement

[thorn lagoon]

There is @ continuation ?

[manic juniper]

Yes

And amongst Mari people as well

[thorn lagoon]

Interesting!
Haven't heard about the sami

[mortal charm]

Mari people ?

I assume they're from mari el in Russia?

[thorn lagoon]

Celtic spirituality got Syncretised with Christianity

[unique light]

🤮

[mortal charm]

Same with islam and arab paganism or zoroastrianism

[thorn lagoon]

Christianity ,is also in a sense, a syncretism between judaism and pagan thoughts ( like the Idea of the "Logos", which is just middle platonic idea)

[manic juniper]

Yes

[thorn lagoon]

I think it was Philo, who was a jewish platonist, who first called the Logos/the Intellectual Principle of Platonism as the " Son of God" Before Christianity

And, then,later in the Gospel of John

Hellenic thoughts very influenced much of the educated jews of that time

Especially jews living in Alexandria

Philo was from Alexandria

Very much on point

[manic juniper]

They straight up copied the myth of Zalmoxis

Either through Greek inspiration or just because it wasn't that far geographically and people were following similar stories

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, it is said by some scholars that the linear cosmology, the idea of final judgement , good vs evil dualism (satan vs God) , etc was Zoroastrian influence into judaism

[manic juniper]

Resurrection is there, the banquet with the revelation of immortality is there, Zalmoxis being a sort of man/god hybrid is there, pretty much the same

[west scroll]

معاك سيادة اللواء العصار من شرطة مكافحة الارهاب

[thorn lagoon]

resurrection of the dead too

[thorn lagoon]

God-man

[thorn lagoon]

I dont know this myth

[manic juniper]

It's from Thracian culture in Romania and Bulgaria

From around the 5th century BCE

[thorny steeple]

How? Christianity doesn't syncretise Paganism

[manic juniper]

They adopted the Christmas tree from the Romans

The first churches were converted Roman temples

[thorny steeple]

I mean the religion itself

[manic juniper]

In English easter takes the name from the Germanic spring goddess Eostara

[manic juniper]

Joulupukki in Finnish, literally "Christmas goat" because we burn hay goats in the same season

Maybe they shouldn't have used the previous folk names for their new religion

[thorn lagoon]

Philo of Alexandria was a hellenized jew

[thorn lagoon]

Before Christianity btw

[manic juniper]

Laestadianism is one of the most pagan-like forms of Christianity

[thorny steeple]

Yeah, loads of Christian elements come from Greek Philosophy, some saints even call Plato "the Greek Moses" but it doesn't necessarily connects with Paganism, those are philosophical concepts

[manic juniper]

The Sámi practice it as if it's shamanic animism, it was even common to use drugs to reinforce the bond with the living God

[thorny steeple]

Still cultural elements, I did know about that, I'm talking about religous principles

[thorn lagoon]

Aristotle was a church father thing?

[manic juniper]

Because seeing God everywhere like the souls used to be in Sámi animism, and using psychedelics to come in contact with the divine doesn't sound pagan at all I guess

[thorn lagoon]

The new testament is written in Greek and in hellenized israel

[manic juniper]

This was a thing of Islam too btw, this is how they converted South East Asians

[main bison]

[manic juniper]

I'm pretty sure some Sufi Muslims use psychedelics to this day

[thorny steeple]

His concepts were used in the religion, I don't deny that. I'm talking about Paganism. Aristotle believed in God as the engine for everything

[manic juniper]

That's almost pantheism

[thorn lagoon]

If you think pagan Hellenic thoughts have no place in its development, then you're deluded

[thorn lagoon]

Lol Plato and Aristotle werent pagan?

The idea of one unchanging/immutable metaphysical Reality/being or principle also came from the pagan

Prime mover

[thorny steeple]

They weren't at all, they didn't believe in those Gods from the Greek Religion. Their concepts were made by them.

[thorn lagoon]

Saying Aristotle believe in the God of Israel is nothing more than historical revisionism

[thorny steeple]

He didn't believe in Jesus as he lived quite a few time before his arrival

[thorn lagoon]

Why did Christian writers refer to them as virtuous pagan if they aren't pagans then?

I think they were merely rejecting literal understanding of their myths

[thorn lagoon]

Like what many common populace do

[astral pagoda]

We support sisi

Forgive me sir

Pls 🥺

[thorny steeple]

What's the connection with that Luteran religion you mentioned?

[manic juniper]

It's that, Christianity isn't pantheistic or animist at its base, God's soul doesn't reside in a rock unless you interpret it that way, which is not mentioned anywhere in the scripture

God is living and present rather than distant, whose only direct connection with the physic world is Jesus

[thorny steeple]

Ok, you hadn't mentioned the connection between it and that sort of religion the Sami practice, I had never heard of that

But Luteranism is a quite diverse branch, so that sort of thing can happen, I doubt the Catholic church would do anything of the sort

[manic juniper]

It's not just Luteranism, it's Laestadianism

I bet the Catholic Church attempted something like that in the Philippines

[thorny steeple]

In Latin America they didn't do anything of the sort. They just used Indigenous languages in some parts of the continents but no syncretism

They even taught Portuguese to them, that's the reason why their language is only common amongst their tribes. Only in Paraguay they maintained Guarani alive because they couldn't quite teach Spanish to them

[thorn lagoon]

many of the native deities in phillipines were syncretised into catholicism as "saints" lol

Pachamama

https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/francisclooney/blog/pope-amazon-and-pachamama

[manic juniper]

I just recalled, not only I was right about Philippines but this kind of thing happened in other Christian majority countries not far from them like Timor Leste and Papua New Guinea

[thorn lagoon]

Its a good way of converting the natives

without much conflict

[manic juniper]

Oh there was a lot of bloodshed too

[thorn lagoon]

Which one?

[west scroll]

okay, we have decided that we (the Great military armed forces) to forgive you, if you say تحيا مسر a 3 times.

[thorn lagoon]

I only know of the Christian mob killing of a Neo-platonic pagan philosopher(Hypatia)

But, I think it was more of a politically motivated lynching

[astral pagoda]

تحيا ماسر
تحيا ماسر
تحيا ماسر

[west scroll]

https://tenor.com/view/alsisi-السيسي-elsisi-gif-12722380528899663318

[thorn lagoon]

Damn!!

[late atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/military-usa-college-academy-westpoint-gif-22525384

https://tenor.com/view/usa-usa-flag-america-this-server-belongs-to-this-server-belongs-to-the-united-states-gif-26423590

[main bison]

Ayoo Dima u gotta watch this @cinder quartz

[main bison]

May god continue to bless the united stats of America
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1047115243500875819/1210884519587094568/316921236_342478792057836_1209267419716928114_n.mp4?ex=66715696&is=66700516&hm=f9c6d97056fe55a73edc6189d3e2130d542897d1b4727ea1f32c374159d8ee7d&

[manic juniper]

Pretty much all of them, they were burned for being pagans, under accusations of sorcery or witchcraft, Sámi shamans were burned alive and their drums destroyed

Filipinos were enslaved and used pretty much everywhere by Spaniards in their colonies

[umbral escarp]

Hello

[main bison]

Hi Simaaaa

[late atlas]

https://tenor.com/view/godblessamerica-america-usa-gif-1955659946067674628

[main bison]

America
The land of freedom and opportunities 🇺🇸

[tired walrus]

or they think so

[prisma cipher]

the importance of freedom is overrated. if they leave only freedom, without opportunities, no one will need America.

[late atlas]

Freedom over being controlled any day
Capitalism over communism any day

[gaunt bronze]

Freedom is essential!

That's why we have Constitutions... 🥰

But this is true too. Complete freedom is no freedom.

[prisma cipher]

this is an imposed opinion, but when I hear how people understand freedom, I feel sad for them

[marsh robin]

Which limits our freedom 🙃to provide freedom

[gaunt bronze]

Exactly!! It goes both ways.

It gives us freedom by protecting certain freedoms or by limiting certain "freedoms" so we have more freedoms.

[sullen comet]

Hi

[weary belfry]

Hi, hru

[prisma cipher]

[sullen comet]

How you doing?

[sullen comet]

?

[prisma cipher]

when I read a message and realize that its meaning eludes me, it seems that I am being deceived

[weary belfry]

How are you

[gaunt bronze]

What do you meannnn?

[prisma cipher]

if you can't explain your idea simply, then you're lying

[sullen comet]

I am great. Thanks

[gaunt bronze]

Oh, it's just poetic rhetoric.

Let me elaborate. The Constitution (at least in my country and countries like the U.S.) protects us because it gives us the freedom to assemble, freedom to speak, freedom to think, believe what is right or wrong, freedom of the press, etc.

But it also gives us freedom because it limits certain freedoms by elaborating on them (e.g. you cannot assemble in a manner that's hazardous). Or, they mention our rights!

[prisma cipher]

[weary belfry]

Glad to know this

[gaunt bronze]

The right to life, liberty, and security, or the right to fundamental judicial access in a system that's free and fair!

These limit our freedoms: we can't kill our enemies, or try to use bribery, but it protects everyone by limiting them.

[unique light]

That's why you would be arrested for holding a piece of paper in the hands in your country

[gaunt bronze]

That's what I meant by this.

[prisma cipher]

security does not go well with freedom

[gaunt bronze]

What do you mean?

[gaunt bronze]

Security just means you have the right to feel safe, to privacy, and to decide decisions concerning your health for yourself.

[prisma cipher]

In order to make the country safe, you need to sacrifice some freedom

[gaunt bronze]

True. I mentioned that in my rhetoric.

[prisma cipher]

Cool, I lost interest

Bye

[gaunt bronze]

😭

[sullen comet]

Where are you from? I think i saw you in voice chat but not 100% sure

[weary belfry]

Every now and then I enter a vc for a friend. I'm from Turkiye and wbu?

[gaunt bronze]

Yk, if you're interested, there's a lot on this!

[sullen comet]

I see i am from pakistan

[gaunt bronze]

On this page it talks about how "freedom is not unlimited," https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/rfc-dlc/ccrf-ccdl/check/art2a.html!

[weary belfry]

A place with great people. Nice

[sullen comet]

Thank you so much

[weary belfry]

Anytime

[manic juniper]

Some people prefer to feel safer under strict authority akin to that of Singapore or worse

[gaunt bronze]

This seems kind of oxymoronic to me bc I find it hard to see how most people would feel safe under strict authority.

^^^^

[gaunt bronze]

I think the Constitution of Singapore still guarantees a lot of liberties, but I'm not sure.

[manic juniper]

I agree

[manic juniper]

It does

[gaunt bronze]

We're lucky though!! 💃

[sullen comet]

Do you have any topic?

[manic juniper]

Usually it's people that don't know better

[weary belfry]

Actually, I don't have anything serious on my mind. And wbu?

[gaunt bronze]

Sadly they end up not knowing better because they've grown up in an authoritarian regime in the first place.

[unique light]

I guess you're just frustrated. Chill, it's fine

14 year old Russian troll 😅

Just chill lad

It's ok

[manic juniper]

You could record yourself doing that if you think iseal is wrong

If you don't get arrested then he was wrong

[unique light]

You definitely need to, you write 4-5 replies every single time

Fair

Are there any?

I don't see any 😅

Who'se saying that?

Keep it in English

Nah, I don't need them

I'm not really asking, but okay

Shout

Did I?

[manic juniper]

But he isn't insulting rn

His last insult was calling you a 14 yo and that was a while ago

[unique light]

Yep

[manic juniper]

[unique light]

Nah, mine is lower

[prisma cipher]

the most common mistake is to think that people with a different point of view simply don’t know something. I'm still busy, just wanna make that remark

I never argued that freedom is not needed. I said that your understanding of freedom and its value is overrated.

[gaunt bronze]

Oh, that wasn’t directed at you.

[gaunt bronze]

True, and no one said that you thought otherwise.

But I don’t see how our understanding of freedom and its importance is overrated…

I love my freedom!! 💅🏻

[prisma cipher]

you mention it all the time. Freedom their freedom here you have freedom you don't, you have not enough freedom

[gaunt bronze]

Today only and that’s because it’s what people here were discussing.

[gaunt bronze]

Also, wdym by the end. I’m not following. 😭

Do I have freedom? I don’t have freedom? Do I not have enough?!

Whoaaaa-

That’s Ode to Joy I think.

Russia being part of the E.U. 👀👄

[unique light]

Which will never happen

[proper pewter]

Hi

Iseal

[unique light]

I guess no one wants that to happen

And that's grand!

[oblique crest]

hey

what do you mean as traditional values?

many eu countries are like so though

in general most of the countries all around world

[unique light]

Do you disrespect them?

So you disrespect them, right?

[oblique crest]

even in turkiye it's legal 🙂 but mostly disrespected by people

[unique light]

I think you do disrespect them, as many of you

[oblique crest]

i don't think it's exactly about traditionalism, there is a population decline problem in russia

[unique light]

This isn't the first time you show how you disrespect LGBTQ on this server

[oblique crest]

it's not an excuse for anti lgbt obviously

most of the western countries having huge numbers of immigration for that

[unique light]

Well, fair play to you

[oblique crest]

you can't put them all in the same basket bro

[unique light]

What do Russians think of the US and EU?

[oblique crest]

it may be, but it's not the reason that immigrants are bad as you said

[unique light]

I've no idea

[oblique crest]

they don't have right ways to choose em

[oblique crest]

it's a thing that turkiye's been struggling for years

not all of them

many migrant people contribute a lot where they live now

[unique light]

But the invader country is Russia

So it's fairly reasonable why they support Ukraine

[oblique crest]

yes it is but western powers are not there for supporting "freedom" or such values

they just think their own political interests like russia

it's a proxy war but nothing else

[unique light]

You did, technically

And what's wrong with supporting both?

The US and EU support Ukraine because Russia invaded Ukraine on 24th February 2022, Russia is considered an aggressor country based on UN Resolution 3314

It's not just my opinion, it's the opinion of over 100 countries.

But was Russia invited to invade Ukraine?

How do you mean? Give some more detailes

Liberate from what? From who?

Ahh, I see

You're freaking 28 times bigger than Ukraine, how do you see it as "military threat"?

[prisma cipher]

By the way I just saw funny video with nazi pic in Ukrainiane just saying

[unique light]

I'd like to take a look, DM it to me if possible

And now both Finland and Sweden become NATO members...

[manic juniper]

I wonder why so many countries in the East are willingly joining NATO

[unique light]

Fail

[prisma cipher]

It's nazi it can be forbidden

[unique light]

Fair, is it available online?

[prisma cipher]

But it just a video, what if I send it here?

[unique light]

I guess it is, the thing is that it's become a real threat since you've started your war

Which wasn't a sensible move

[unique light]

Don't send it here

[prisma cipher]

Why

[unique light]

Because it can be easily reported

Ahh, I see, was Ukraine about to become a NATO member?

Which one?

They've always wanted to become a NATO country, as you invaded Ukraine back in 2014

So it's fairly reasonable

Does it exist?

[prisma cipher]

Now I will delete it

[whole beacon]

@acoustic knot no violence videos plz

[manic juniper]

I will explain this to you as someone from Finland: because of the Russian invasion of Ukraine

It is that simple, after years of neutrality Sweden and Finland chose to join NATO because Russia insists on its imperialist ways

[unique light]

A referendum must be conducted in accordance with Ukrainian law or other relevant legal frameworks. Since the DPR doesn't exist as a recognized republic, it cannot have its own laws. Fairly simple

A referendum can't be conducted in accordance with Russian law, as Donbass is technically a Ukrainian region

[manic juniper]

Why do you think it was expanding? Why do you think so many countries dislike Russia?

[prisma cipher]

just one small nuance, they never been neutral.

[unique light]

They just don't like vodka and pierogi

They're envy

[prisma cipher]

They are pro west

[manic juniper]

Yes I can imagine, our country also was part of Russia. Getting away from it made us richer than ever

[manic juniper]

If one side is bad you like the other more

Because none of them likes Russia, it's that simple

[prisma cipher]

well yes, we only see black and white, bad and good

[manic juniper]

Why do you think NATO surged in popularity? Because of Russia's conduct. Before crying about NATO expansion, maybe make it not worth for NATO to expand

[manic juniper]

Small countries with few millions inhabitants will always flock to countries that treat them better

You say that as someone that has a choice, because your country is big enough

[unique light]

She has more to do with Ukraine than you I believe

[manic juniper]

Yes, you failed at deleting us from the map long ago, Ukraine is just taking more time but they will survive as well

[unique light]

😂

Joke of the day award goes to this lad

[manic juniper]

https://youtu.be/cUTIc-f1h3E

[unique light]

😂 👍

[manic juniper]

The Baltic countries won their independence back and it will never be taken away from them

[unique light]

[manic juniper]

If so many countries wanted to join NATO it's because Russia sucks at building normal peer-to-peer relationships with smaller countries, simple as that

[prisma cipher]

Have you ever thought how one big country feels when a swarm of small countries unites, and behind these countries there is a force that surpasses your country. you will never understand this, you will never see the full scale. you only see a tiny area where there is a big Russia and a small country. What you have to do is a zoom out.

[unique light]

[manic juniper]

You will never understand how it feels to be under threat because all your threats are a made up historical narrative

[prisma cipher]

Like I said.

[manic juniper]

It wasn't your country that only got its independence a little over a century ago

[prisma cipher]

You don't see it

[manic juniper]

Yes, because I don't drink the Russian propaganda

[unique light]

Okay lads, time for bed, see ya all tomorrow here

[prisma cipher]

Sure

[manic juniper]

Individual countries are, because some of them are small and don't have a large army

But honestly most of us think we could defend our borders quite well, we can't invade our neighbours but we can defend our borders

Our armies are a lot more modern than Ukraine's

USA isn't really afraid of Russia, it hasn't been since the fall of USSR

Even slightly before that it was clear that the USSR was changing its course

Maybe I'm wrong because I'm not American, but I thought they only feared China

I don't think so

I mean, why would they be afraid of Russia if Russia is struggling against Ukraine?

USA would have crushed Ukraine in seconds because of its geography that facilitates an heavy vehicular invasion

I don't think it'll be a real victory, Russia may secure or annex some small territories in the East and South and it'll stop there

Most likely nothing will happen afterwards

Maybe Ukraine will have granted access to NATO since the hostilities are over

[prisma cipher]

because it will be a missile strike for destruction and not an army war

[manic juniper]

Yes, I'm pro-Ukraine but I'm not very optimist for Ukraine

I'm a realist

It'll be very impoverished but it will resist

Looking at the past to feel better about the present

[prisma cipher]

Respect 👍

Sure

[whole beacon]

[prisma cipher]

?

[vapid hare]

Amazing how the war is in a stalemate considering the amount of aid the west has given ukraine in general

[grave temple]

i think putin should just nuke kiev

[vapid hare]

Hell yeah I want nuclear armaggedon

[thorny steeple]

Turkey against Georgia, what a nice match to watch

[manic juniper]

Some rusty old weapons aren't real gamechangers against a much bigger military

[vapid hare]

Do they have any real chance of retaking donbass/crimea at this point

[grave temple]

https://tenor.com/view/f16-gif-14036902144968050391

hello biden

[vapid hare]

Its zelensky

[grave temple]

this is zelensky i need 100 billion rokets to bomb donesk children

[grave temple]

[vapid hare]

Im sure both the republicans and democrats can agree to such a noble goal

[grave temple]

tactical nukes

[vapid hare]

Lets just nuke russia

[thorny steeple]

I'm grateful to this war because it disgraced Chelsea FC

Who's winning tomorrow?

[manic juniper]

Not Crimea

[vapid hare]

You think they have a chance at retaking donbass?

Why is the cat in your pfp doing the salute

Im guessing he really likes the number 18

[manic juniper]

Partial, unlikely to get it all back, likely to lose most of it, also likely to retake part of it

[vapid hare]

When do you think the war will end?

[grave temple]

when biden sends zelensky his missiles

[thorny steeple]

Argentinians deserve those high inflation rates they're having, not to mention this entire land belongs to Brazil

Our next president will be either Lula, Bolsonaro or whoever Bolsonaro indicates. A far-right guy or just a pseudo-socialist, there aren't many jews running for president here

Like yours did? 🤣🤡

Go sell your lunch to buy your dinner, bro.

[feral river]

I guess Ukraine will not join the NATO

Russia already warned that if they join the NATO and NATO put missiles, militaries threatening the national security of Russia, will be WW3

a nuclear war

[thorny steeple]

Won't happen if they will reach a good agreement with Russia in the end of this war

[feral river]

just give them\ some territory

[thorny steeple]

They will probably be careful about what they do there in Ukraine

[thorny steeple]

That's it,
You give: lands
You receive: peace
🤝

Is this the sister account?

[feral river]

not really she's on another account

I guess she's here

[thorny steeple]

Bring her back here

[feral river]

why ?

are you gonna do something to her ?

[thorny steeple]

Why would I

[feral river]

I will just leave it you can do whatever you want who tf cares

[thorny steeple]

I'm bringing her to Brazil then

[feral river]

you can only bring her to america, this is my only demand

[thorny steeple]

Ok

Like fathers used to do this to their daughters, not brothers

[feral river]

🇺🇸

[feral river]

not really I just need a green card of the US, I can also get the green card I need once she got the citizenship

[torpid whale]

Hey what's up 👋

[thorn lagoon]

freedom and free speech is not real

You arent really free to do or to say anything

[high iron]

https://tenor.com/view/elm-gif-26102787

[feral river]

You have free to do everything, but I can't ensure that you still have free after you did.

[thorn lagoon]

Thats the point

There will always be consequences to what we say and what we do

we dont live in isolation

[thorny steeple]

we are only free to do what are free to do for us

born to die, force to live

[prisma cipher]

Yes, Russia doesn’t like it when new countries join NATO. but there are countries that under no circumstances should become members of NATO. Russia needs a buffer zone, especially from Moscow.

it will always be like this. NATO will expand because it wants to control Russia. Russia will try to prevent this expansion by any means. NATO will respond by saying, look, Russia is behaving aggressively, and building up its weapons. and so on endlessly. and there is no one to blame.

[wise mirage]

how to suicide without pain

[thorny steeple]

there are some medicines

if you take them u won't feel any pain

[wise mirage]

where to buy these

[thorny steeple]

it's not easy to get one without a prescription
so study hard and at first became a doctor,get a PhD and
then you can prescribe ur own medicines

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-pepehands-crying-gif-12683546

am one thing mate
if you always talk about those things, even as jokes
you will always feel like that

like if you even fake something for too long it really gets into ur personality

[wise mirage]

why do you think i am joking

[thorny steeple]

sometimes but it's not good to always think about that stuff
it's also better to take a look around about what everything is going on earth

[thorny steeple]

funniest jokes hold the Darkest truths

and i know that very well

[wise mirage]

yeah lol , i am just a bit bored

[thorny steeple]

the world is a comedy to those who think and a tragedy to those who feel

[thorny steeple]

same

[wise mirage]

honestly , i need help

got any experiece in programming

?

[thorny steeple]

nope
i wish i could help

[wise mirage]

alright thanks man , so ...now what ?

do you play osu

[thorny steeple]

hmm u said the sentence in two part

nope

[wise mirage]

and ? what's woth that

[thorny steeple]

nothing
there are endless possibilities

let things slide

[jaunty tangle]

Respect

[wise mirage]

alright then

[thorny steeple]

I'm gonna watch an anime
it's boring

but what if i read a book instead

[wise mirage]

did you know if get a poorly made laptop and tilt its screen a lil bit , green , blue and purple will all loook like sky blue

[thorny steeple]

yeh

that's how colour combinations work

[wise mirage]

yep

[thorny steeple]

life is way too short to overthink ngl

[wise mirage]

yeah

[thorny steeple]

something we just need a ticket which will take us to the place ,where we always dream to go

[wise mirage]

"I am the lone force between heaven and earth, the relentless warrior who never yields. Unlike the pathetic whispers of 'I can do it,' my determination is an unstoppable force. My resolve is ironclad, a fierce testament to unyielding perseverance. I am not just determined—I am an indomitable, ruthless willpower that cannot be understood, let alone defeated."

-𝖒𝖚𝖍𝖆𝖓𝖓𝖆𝖉, 𝖙𝖍𝖊 𝖕𝖔𝖊𝖙𝖎𝖈 𝖘𝖔𝖚𝖑

[novel scroll]

Please help me guys, we all know that English has the order of Adjectives. But I don't know if colours have the order too. So for example: The walls were painted with YELLOW BLUE stripes-This example is true or false? HELPPP MEEE, Im studying for the IELTS test

[wise mirage]

LOl

[thorny steeple]

We are all ordinary,
We are all boring,
We are all spectacular,
We are all shy,
We are all bold,
We are all heroes,
We are all helpless,
It just depends on the day…

we are all humans afterall

[wise mirage]

yeah but by far i have lost 3 people of my beloved family , at this point i am done with crying so .....man idk

[thorny steeple]

places the more specific or distinguishing color first.

[thorny steeple]

oh
hmm

[novel scroll]

thankssssss ❤️

[thorny steeple]

life🫂

[haughty forge]

When it comes to colors, if you’re describing something with stripes of two different colors, you would usually mention the colors in sequence separated by “and”. So the correct way to describe your example would be: “The walls were painted with yellow and blue stripes.”

[jaunty tangle]

life goes on

[unique light]

NATO is an anti-war alliance, it does want to control Russia as Russia is a pro-war country. Afghanistan, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine, you invaded all of these countries.

No buffer zone, NATO Troops are 40km from Saint Petersburg already, no actions

That's a massive fail. You wanted NATO to stop expanding, but got NATO 40km from one of your biggest cities 😅

And nobody cares what you want now, no actions from your side, NATO will only continue to expend, just the matter of time

Ukraine will eventually become a NATO member, as it borders with Russia. Russia is an aggressor country, proving this with numerous invasions to other countries.

And I know you guys are mad about what I'm saying, but ain't nobody is scared now. Almost 3 years of war in Ukraine and it doesn't really look like you're close to the victory. Please refrain from saying "We're at war with NATO! Not with Ukraine!", as we all understand that the plan was not to fight against NATO, otherwise it would all end in 3 days (NATO Victory)

[night cedar]

hmm

u need something

lemme give it to u

take this banana rain

and ||smile||

[prisma cipher]

I won't waste time to commenting this. Mention just US and bunch of countries where they start war.

[prisma cipher]

if there were ideal conditions and Russia could solve its problems along the entire perimeter of the country, this would need to be done, those countries that became members are already too late. We work in those areas where we can do something.

and for some reason I am convinced that we will not have provocations from Finland, but the history of our neighborhood with Ukraine is an endless series of provocations

therefore, this direction is the most important, not to mention the fact that Moscow is next to Ukraine

[prisma cipher]

you can't defeat a country with nuclear weapons. if NATO tries to attack Russia, no matter what weapon, it will receive a nuclear strike in response.

Ifyou think that nuclear weapons will never be used because it is a deterrent system, you are wrong. if the presence of nuclear weapons does not stop anyone, it will be used. if we use it, we will be very bad and will receive a blow in response, or we will not receive it, or they will not be able to destroy the entire country, or the United States will not intervene, there are options. but if we don't use nuclear weapons we will lose to NATO without options.

[astral pagoda]

What would happen if a country bombed a nuclear arsenal containing many nukes?

I can't stop thinking about it. Multiple nukes at the same place getting bombed at once, how insane.

[thorny steeple]

…a nuclear arsenal
containing many nu||||es…
hmm.

[prisma cipher]

Maybe nothing it's not dynamite, I don't know how it work but it atom reaction. Not my area, don't know

[marsh robin]

In my opinion Ukraine lost many things. And pushing them to be Nato member is unnecessary it was kinda obvious if they join into Nato Russia will attack (I didn't expect it would be that quick but happened)

[pearl stream]

provocations like what? battle mosquitos by NATO labs all over Ukraine?

[prisma cipher]

gas provocations that have been going on since 2010.

You can google it

[novel wedge]

👀

Is that true?

[prisma cipher]

threats not to renew the agreement on the Black Sea Fleet, which, if I remember right expired in 2015. these are the provocations

[warped frigate]

what sup guys

how are you guys doing today?

[unique light]

I won't waste my time on this, so that's why I write a big text as my reply. What a logic!

[unique light]

Finland and NATO 40km from St. Petersburg? Nah, we don't care, no problems with it!

Ukraine, a Non-NATO country? Yes! We definitely have problems with them! Especially when it's 28 times smaller than Russia and has weak army!

[pearl stream]

I wonder what your warships were doing there in the first place

[unique light]

But USA does have nukes either, the problem is that your nukes hasn't been serviced since the USSR existance, while the US may have less nukes but they're in a "ready to launch" state

🤦‍♂️

Yes

You obviosulyt don't

How am I supposed to?

I didn't say I have Ukrainian friends 🙂

Nah, I'm just spreading propaganda, of course Russians know the real "truth"

🤦‍♂️

But we're talking about nukes, not about your government and what they know

[thorny steeple]

ok

[unique light]

I didn't say that

Did I?

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-run-gif-22282133

[pearl stream]

Like that there's no freedom of speech whatsoever, and you get into prison for sharing a meme?

[unique light]

No doubt in it, absolutely! Only "West" is spreading propaganda!

Yes, because you hate LGTBQ and Ukraine, that's what your government does!

Do you want to say that you have made some new nukes since then?

[prisma cipher]

it was the territory of the USSR

[prisma cipher]

I answer it

[unique light]

That wasn't a question tho

One or loads then?

Your government won't tell you the truth

You live in a country, where everyone around are enemies of yours, where Ukraine is bad, but invading Ukraine is good

You live in a country, where they're telling ya that Ukraine has been bombing itself for 8 freaking years

Where Ukrainians hate Ukraine

Russians, apparently

I'd say so

Yes

But I guess Russian propaganda never tells such nonsense

They better tell ta how Su-57 is better than F-35 and F-22 Raptor 😂

And how great T-90 is

Of nothing, you're 28 times bigger with the second strongest army in the world

But it's the same as to compare a bike with a truck

Aha

[prisma cipher]

I answer it, you read, and repeat your argument.

[unique light]

Not a single official NATO Troop in Ukraine, but you're all fighting with NATO

Grand

[haughty forge]

Russia doesn't want Ukraine to be a NATO member and they want some of Ukrainian territory, and NATO members-specially USA wants Ukraine to join NATO, Is it the case?

[unique light]

In a couple of months

Yes, 3 days! Kyiv in three days!

How could I forget that?

I don't

[unique light]

Does Ukraine kill civilians in Kharkiv, Kyiv, Odesa etc.?

Does Ukraine bomb these cities?

[shrewd falcon]

can human making a floating car or motorcycle? in the future

if it yes, then what kind of thing they need to making floating?

[haughty forge]

Some of them exists now

[shrewd falcon]

oh yeah? how they making it float?

[haughty forge]

You can search on the internet for more details

[shrewd falcon]

i see they make the prototype of em, but still i wonder how the working of it

[haughty forge]

Do you mean floating on air or water?

[shrewd falcon]

air

Several companies, including aerospace giants and startups, have developed prototypes of flying cars. Examples include vehicles from companies like Terrafugia, AeroMobil, and PAL-V.

but am not sure

[haughty forge]

You can read this https://aviationoutlook.com/flying-car/

[manic juniper]

They don't want Ukraine to join because we can't allow a country with an active conflict to join

The only way it can join is after the hostilities stop

Ukraine wanted to join NATO, same as Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Finland, Sweden, Poland, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria... You could ask some of these countries why they joined NATO or you could come up with the answer yourself

[vapid hare]

B-but what about the informal verbal agreement between George H.W. Bush and Mikhail Gorbachev where they agreed NATO wouldn't expand to Eastern Europe?!

[manic juniper]

What about the Budapest Memorandum that guaranteed Ukraine's sovereignty in exchange of its nuclear weapons?

[vapid hare]

guess russia had a change of heart

[haughty forge]

I don't know much about russia ukraine issue.That's why I asked 🤷‍♂️

[feral river]

well as Russia warned, the further NATO expansion would be the red line of Russian's national security and core interest, they will use any measure possible to prevent this case happen.

[thorny steeple]

Gm

[feral river]

not all the country want to be dependent on superpower and become their puppet state.

only weaks do, because they have no choice, they don't have any strength

obey the order of the superpower is only thing they can do

[manic juniper]

Yes, that's exactly why they joined, so they wouldn't become puppets of another country

[thorny steeple]

Is there another reason besides fear of being invaded by Russia?

[manic juniper]

Only that one for those

[feral river]

depend how you gonna explain it, as I can see only few countries in NATO have independent rights on manipulating their own matter and national security

[manic juniper]

Example being?

[feral river]

and unfortunately, it's not Nordic states, not Baltic states, but those powerful countries like UK, France, Germany.

world order is still based on strength, even inside of a union or alliance

[manic juniper]

I think you're saying stuff that don't make sense, our national security isn't dependent on other countries, it doesn't even depend on the EU

They never forced us to make any decision

[feral river]

you just have no choices not they are imposing those decisions on you but you have no decision which caused by those global powers

[manic juniper]

Possibly, but why invade it then lol

[feral river]

seems like you have choice, but the only choice you have is embrace their order.

[manic juniper]

Ok, can you tell me which ones are those decisions that they imposed on us? Otherwise it's all talk

[manic juniper]

Except we refused to join for years

[feral river]

yeah I see, but why did you guys join ? isn't that obvious that you guys know that Russia may invade you guys and you guys need security ?

any other reasons ?

[manic juniper]

Yes

[manic juniper]

No

[feral river]

can you guys defeat Russia ? I don't think so

[manic juniper]

We could repel it

[feral river]

do you have military strength that US have ? or even UK

do you have that ?

[manic juniper]

We were able to fight the USSR rather well, a much stronger country, with our very bad army

[feral river]

do you have missiles ? nuclear weapons ? even enough hackers to fight against Russian network attack ?

I don't think you guys are capable to have a solo with Russia

[manic juniper]

It isn't needed, we didn't have any of that when fighting the USSR

Our country kept its independence and the Soviet army was decimated

If they attempted a similar invasion today we would decimate them even more badly, since our army isn't bad anymore

Your attention span seems short

[feral river]

that's because the target of Finland isn't that really a matter to the USSR, why you think USSR can defeat Nazi Germany put their flag on the congress in Berlin so they can't took over Finland even the population of a country can't compare with Nazi Germany's active personal in number ?

they definitely can do that but it's not worth to do it.

they don't really have to do it

[manic juniper]

Because they received help and supplies from western countries

[feral river]

you guess what, during WW2 US even supplied USSR

[thorny steeple]

The 5th NATO article says that if you attack a NATO member, it's war against all members. So every hypothesis is imaginary, there would be at least a world war

[manic juniper]

Yes, even without NATO we would be able to secure our country, but more security doesn't hurt anyone

[feral river]

that is just a military-influence alliance, there is no any other global power will tolerant another superpower using their alliances against their interest.

Russia will not tolerant this, if there is a NATO in Asia, China will not tolerant this too

[manic juniper]

If they lost so many men just to achieve their goal against a much worse army of a small country imagine their results today, since their army is worse and ours is much better

[feral river]

during the WW2 when Soviet kicked German ass ?

[manic juniper]

Is that why the USSR got decimated here?

[feral river]

I see you guys fighting pretty good but still ceded some part of your territory

[prisma cipher]

@feral river nihao 🇨🇳

[manic juniper]

Again, explain how they lost so many men here

[feral river]

to the USSR

[manic juniper]

Yes, now imagine a better army and their army is worse, why do you think Vietnam won against USA?

[feral river]

they lost many men there because they are experienced a great purge interally they don't have experience to fight in the FInland.

[thorny steeple]

Russia doesn't need to tolerate anything

[manic juniper]

By your logic Vietnam would've lost in 6 hours

[feral river]

and you guys still ceded territory to the Russians after the war

remember you lost

winner is Soviet Union

[manic juniper]

Yes, and USSR got decimated by a much smaller country

[feral river]

yeah but they won the war

[manic juniper]

We learn from experiences, clearly they do not

[feral river]

the truth is they don't really care you guys, you are not US, or UK even France and Germany

[manic juniper]

Why are you changing argument

I already explained everything

[feral river]

a much weak Baltics, they use a treaty, some actions to take over and annexed all of them

why can't Finland ?

[manic juniper]

Plus you made claims without proof, tell me one thing that was dictated in our country by another one

If there isn't any then your entire argument is pointless

[thorny steeple]

Remember, wars are about strategy and objective, having a stronger army only means you'll kill but not necessarily win anything

[feral river]

my argument is clear, all the time, you guys are not global powers, or superpowers, you don't have much choices because you guys are weak, much weaker than Russia.

[manic juniper]

Tell me something I don't know

A country of 5 millions isn't as strong as a country of 140 millions

lol

[feral river]

kill is measure not goal.

unless you are doing a genocide

for what ? for annexing territory ?

is anytime necessary to cause genocide for annex territory in modern days ?

[manic juniper]

Yes

[feral river]

well except Israel they really need to expand their empire

except that they have US support, superpower backed them

[manic juniper]

In a world where many countries are ethnostates or where the ethnic majority is over 85%, ethnic cleansing is always an option in their book

[feral river]

yeah in our country too, we don't like some muslims have autonomy in our country, either got purge or embrace our values

that's what we do

[manic juniper]

And more Han move to their region

It's debatable if it's a genocide or not, but the results will be the same

[feral river]

genocide is just a term that used for accuse other country as running by a tyrant government or dictatorship.

like f*ck you

[thorn lagoon]

If Muslims had the power, they will do the same

[feral river]

who tf really care that ? what they only care is what you do is in their favor or not.

[thorn lagoon]

They have done this before

[feral river]

you like it you say nice, you don't like it you say f*ck you

[feral river]

you like it you say what a nice government which serves the people, you don't like it you say genocide against other group what a terrorist government

who tf cares that.

[manic juniper]

That's not how genocides are determined

[feral river]

that's how they were used for convincing people to fight against them

I'm really getting bored about these bs

[unique light]

So instead of fightining with a NATO Country to prevent the expansion, they decided to go to Ukraine

[manic juniper]

Same, imagine asking people to back their claims and they do nothing

[thorn lagoon]

Japan should have colonised china

[manic juniper]

The myth of the regional power

It's so strong it has to target poor countries like Georgia or Ukraine

[feral river]

yeah that's what they want

[feral river]

unfortunately they didn't success

and we won the war

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah

I want to imagine a world where axis won the war

[feral river]

TNO

[manic juniper]

Our country would be much bigger

[feral river]

well anyways living under japanese rule..... would be hard

[unique light]

Nah, I don't think so

But why are you insulting?

[unique light]

Unfortunately indeed

[feral river]

yeah unfortunately we won

unfortunately we are the second most powerful country

[unique light]

I didn't ask tho

[feral river]

unfortunately, what is the next target ?

unfortunately

[manic juniper]

Is it India

[rare sluice]

serious hi

[feral river]

will not I guess

[thorn lagoon]

Finland?

[thorn lagoon]

What's that

[thorn lagoon]

How?

[manic juniper]

Yes

[thorn lagoon]

Taiwan

[manic juniper]

We would have kept Karelia and probably annexed some regions in the South as a reward from Germany, like Ingria, if our government was imperialist enough they could push farther and redeem more Finnic majority regions

It was part of Sweden for longer

Your country and Sweden are failures that aren't liked by anyone that had any experience living alongside them

[thorn lagoon]

If you were imperialist enough, you could have occupied all the nordic countries and built a finnish empire

[prisma cipher]

[manic juniper]

Why would I care when I'm living in an independent country, only you cherish history as sacred

Imagine if Italy still had wet dreams about the Roman Empire, who cares

[prisma cipher]

You aren't independent. You are nato, you will do what they told to do

[manic juniper]

You aren't independent. You are Putin, you will do what he told to do

[prisma cipher]

I never say I'm independent

[manic juniper]

I didn't say that, I said that we would be bigger. I don't think it would be a good thing to annex the Finnic regions of northwestern Russia, they deserved independent but realistically my country would've wished to annex them

[unique light]

Two Russians VS Finish Girl

[feral river]

at least we are dependent on our country not other country

our country work for our interest

there is no any government works for other countries interest, unless they are a puppet of another country

[manic juniper]

The northwestern Finns in Russia, the Permyaks (Komi, Udmurts...) should have gotten their own countries, I wouldn't support an annexation but realistically my country wouldn't have refused the occasion to annex their regions

I think this is a difficult concept to grasp if you believe that all people vaguely related to your ethnicity should have their regions annexed

Bro you are slow to follow, the discussion was about potential Axis victory 🤣 can you even follow

Helsinki after a nuclear strike would still be better to live in than anywhere in Russia anyway

Compare Russian annexed Karelia to Finnish Karelia 🤣

Why is it so poor then compared to Finnish Karelia

I admit that you guys win at "creating a sh¡thole" competition

[thorn lagoon]

Russia was better under the Mongols

[manic juniper]

I bow in front of your talent

[manic juniper]

He is gone, reduced to atoms

[manic juniper]

So is ours

Is it bad that we work alongside bigger and stronger countries? As long as they respect our sovereignty (and Germany, France and Italy seem loyal so far)

[unique light]

Got banned

[manic juniper]

Annexed by the void

[unique light]

My boi

[prisma cipher]

it's a lot more fun when you ban your opponent

[manic juniper]

Would've been fun if I was responsible for it

[unique light]

Exactly

[rancid elbow]

Quick question, has something changed here since my last visit? Or it's the same old spot where a bunch of e-thugs discuss politics as if they matter? No offense, just being curious 🤔

[dapper laurel]

He is dead, but now it is Xi's turn

[thorn lagoon]

You wished

[dapper laurel]

I mean, he's old as f, so he'll die soon

[prisma cipher]

I haven't read all the messages but this is the second Russian in 2 days who has been banned here

[thorn lagoon]

Yeah, all discussion doesnt matter , unless it attracts large audience and able to warp people's worldview and make them act in certain ways

[dapper laurel]

This channel is a simple political salon, and it will remain so

[prisma cipher]

when I read his messages, he answered correctly

Ant those two just happy they ban people

[rancid elbow]

Are you saying the home for powerless internet gangsters?

[sour marlin]

Who got banned

[thorn lagoon]

mods are russo-phobic and anti slavic ?

[dapper laurel]

Yes, let's say so

[thorn lagoon]

what power do you have ?

[prisma cipher]

Two Russian was banned for two days here. It all what I saw and what I told

[manic juniper]

I wasn't happy that he got banned, he was funnier when he was here

The epitome of Russian nationalism and chauvinism

But I don't get to choose and someone else reported him, so he's gone now 🤷🏼‍♀️

[rancid elbow]

Definitely not the one to cause world-wide alterations, if you're about that

[dapper laurel]

Who are you talking about?

[manic juniper]

A dude that got banned earlier

[thorn lagoon]

NATO mods

[manic juniper]

I don't know if you noticed him, he would send edits about Russia, USSR, Russian Empire, idk what else

They told me one of them was anti-LGBT too

But I didn't see that edit personally

[dapper laurel]

1999 memories

[thorn lagoon]

Hmm

[wise marlin]

Who got banned?

[thorn lagoon]

That's just every cringe nationalist kids kanging.