🧠｜serious-chat

[sonic lion]

If I’m saying everything, I’m not saying anything at all

[jolly agate]

what’s the difference

how would you differentiate everything with anything

[sonic lion]

Isn’t the same thing

[jolly agate]

What are you even saying now

[jolly agate]

Buff

[sonic lion]

I’m just playing

[jolly agate]

I don’t think so

But ok I’ll buy it

[sonic lion]

Well, that doesn’t define what I’m doing anyhow

[jolly agate]

since you are a being of upper light

you are contradicting yourself

[sonic lion]

So what

[jolly agate]

I’m pointing out your mistake don’t say “so what”

[echo prairie]

What does a being of upper light mean?

[sonic lion]

I think you have something against me

[jolly agate]

It depends on one own interpretation

[sonic lion]

Just say it

[echo prairie]

What is yours?

[jolly agate]

Nope, I don’t have anything against your

[sonic lion]

I’m not in uni dude, I don’t even mean to have a serious debate

[jolly agate]

by telling you my interpretation you own thoughts will revolve around mine. And you will be on the same page as me or close to me

[sonic lion]

I was just playing

[jolly agate]

It’s a serious chat dude

[sonic lion]

Yeah, but I can choose what I’m going to engage in

And discussing epistemology is boring

And not my area

[jolly agate]

But if you are wrong you admit you are wrong rather make excuses such as I was just playing around

[echo prairie]

Ok, so what do you mean by a being of upper light?

[sonic lion]

You’re free to think I’m wrong

I don’t care honestly

[jolly agate]

I was simply pointing your contradictions

[jolly agate]

Think

[sonic lion]

It’s contradicting for you tho

[echo prairie]

I don't know what it is, and that is why i am asking you.

[jolly agate]

What’s a contradiction meaning

[jolly agate]

If you can think u will know

[sonic lion]

If we don’t know how to answer something, can we at least try? I was the one trying to answer while you were occupied trying to point contradictions

[echo prairie]

Would i ask you if i knew what it is? Just answer it.

[sonic lion]

It’s somebody that is morally superior

[jolly agate]

I don’t say I disagree but when someone tells you you are wrong you can at least try to look back and admit you are wrong.

[sonic lion]

Obviously he meant in a sarcastic way

[sonic lion]

Oh god

Just bugger off dude

[echo prairie]

I don't think there is such a thing as moral superiority.

[sonic lion]

Don’t you think somebody who is kind and generous is superior to someone who is selfish and self-centered?

[open plover]

of course! what is most, a kind and generous person possesses a greater human quality than a selfish and self-centered one

[sonic lion]

Well, then you believe in moral superiority

[open plover]

Absolutely! Not only moral, but I also advocate for common sense

[sonic lion]

Hahahaha

[echo prairie]

Totally agree to this. Being around kind and generous people makes your life easier.

[open plover]

Yes, and you can learn a lot

[sonic lion]

Then you don’t believe in this anymore?

[echo prairie]

Moral superiority and human quality, are they the same thing?

[sonic lion]

Human quality contains morality

What do you think morality is

[open plover]

Morality is doing the right thing when necessary

[echo prairie]

Knowing what is good and what is bad

[sonic lion]

That’s ethic

Morality is more then that

[sonic lion]

There is no such a thing as good or bad

[open plover]

Anyway, it's all somehow related

[echo prairie]

Of course there is.

[sonic lion]

How come

Yeah

There isn’t

Not objectively

[echo prairie]

It is not a question of how, but it is a question of why

[sonic lion]

Damn

Okay

Let’s take murder for example

It’s objectively bad

But if that someone is a parasite

It’s a beneficial

[echo prairie]

No

I already knew where you are going with this

[sonic lion]

The plot of crime and punishment is always a good one

To discuss morality

I just don’t believe in right or wrong, I believe the spectrum is larger than those binary definitions

Actions are always beneficial to someone. The question is to who and what for

[echo prairie]

It is right or wrong by the individual moral standards.

[sonic lion]

Yeah maybe

[open plover]

and also by legal ⚖️ 🧑‍⚖️ consequences

[sonic lion]

Exactly

But that’s ethic, not morality

[open plover]

We must never overlook that aspect

[sonic lion]

Morality is personal

[echo prairie]

Again, no, i don't agree to it

[sonic lion]

Except if you’re at war, then it doesn’t matter the legal consequences

[sonic lion]

Fine

[echo prairie]

https://tenor.com/view/respect-hat-cap-kid-gif-7551965

[low forge]

Hello

[heady dove]

Hello

[night delta]

Good morning

[heady dove]

Good morning!

[dry forum]

Good afternoon

[marsh silo]

What's the point of life ? And why are we living ?

[dry forum]

Life is meaningless🙂

[thorny steeple]

Well that's a sudden

[craggy sphinx]

hello beings of the upper light

and my queen

[violet dragon]

using the word 'why' implies that you believe in an objective cause for life, but you just don't know what that cause is. so i take it you're not a theist, and not a nihilist either? what is your position here?

[thorny steeple]

Cause people are afraid of dying.

If there were painless deaths, you would have been able to witness the wild and true nature of a human.

And the population wouldn't have been this large.

Half the world would have been dead by now.

People are not living; they are just trying not to die.

[violet dragon]

understandable. but isn't that too literal of an approach?

[craggy sphinx]

[thorny steeple]

I mean, it is, but there is more to it, which I do not think can be said here.

[violet dragon]

wait you mean there's censorship here lmao?

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/cant-handle-the-truth-gif-7916035

[violet dragon]

try me

i mean there's nothing wrong with ppl explaining why they think their worldview is correct

[thorny steeple]

I love your passion, but you're not ready for it now.

[violet dragon]

bro we literally just met

[thorny steeple]

And you are trying to ask me the meaning of life?

Don't you wanna know my favorite color and food first?

Just kidding bro, You are a good person. I admire the enthusiasm.

[craggy sphinx]

I will ask you to be more respectful to each other.

Count on communication rather than rhetoric. Otherwise, you'll just waste your time.

[thorny steeple]

I mean, I do not want to force any discipline on him; if he thinks I'm a nutcase, then so be it. Far better than sugarcoating it.

[jolly agate]

[feral river]

san francisco just looks like beijing right now

did xi bought california 🤣

[thorny steeple]

good morning ladies and mans

[craggy sphinx]

hello

[thorny steeple]

how life is going with you

[jolly agate]

hello righteous ones

[fluid bronze]

Waow it’s like chinatown

Too red

[thorny steeple]

did you take your social credit card lol

[worn pond]

Hello guys

[jolly agate]

Hello

[worn pond]

What do think about video games, can they be beneficial for learning

[jolly agate]

Welcome to serious chat

[jolly agate]

Depends

[lusty zenith]

I learned English through games until I was 18. Maybe 80% of my vocabulary and talking habits came from it. So yes. Just depends on the type of game you're playing

[jolly agate]

Which games

[lusty zenith]

Mass Effect and Dragon Age. Good RPGs of their time. My best friend who's an English teacher also uses conversations from these games as teaching material. Never heard anyone doing that before but it's been effective for his students

[jolly agate]

Where did my kitty go

[thorny steeple]

peace between genders,war between classes

[craggy sphinx]

great!
I'm doing my best to get better

I'll cut off my hand if I don't

[jolly agate]

I hope you stay healthy

[feral zephyr]

There will be no peace btween the 2 genders

[thorny steeple]

can be

[feral zephyr]

I wish

[thorny steeple]

ıf we destroy sexist social relation,we can create peace

[feral zephyr]

But destroying that is impossible

Some say women are weaker then men some say there both as strong

And that causes gender war

[thorny steeple]

patriarchism is not about biological differences

you can search lol

[patent lodge]

+1

[thorny steeple]

hi there

[slate mesa]

Why can't there be peace between men and women?

[thorny steeple]

https://youtube.com/shorts/GLZzZoXYPTY?si=QMG60LNcAe4syB_J

may god help them

[jolly agate]

One will always feel inferior to another

[violet dragon]

why does the existence of an omniscient god deny that of free will?

[jolly agate]

How??l

[violet dragon]

they claim that since god already has the knowledge of all the events which are going to unfold, there is no free will

but i don't get that argument

so i wanna hear it from someone who is of this view

this, i wanna make it clear, assumes the premise that a god exists in the first place lol

[jolly agate]

what does god knowing everything has anything to do with free will

[violet dragon]

exactly

[woeful kettle]

You gonna be kidding me! Welcoming a dictator in the land of freedom?

[jolly agate]

What is god and how would you even define it

[violet dragon]

this argument demands that god is omniscient

so for this discussion that is all that matters

[jolly agate]

It’s a question I never got the answer.

I see this as an fallacious argument. Unless someone can enlighten me.

[lavish finch]

You see what is a fallacious argument?

[timber cobalt]

Good morning everyone!

[jolly agate]

That one

[jolly agate]

That one to be precise

[lavish finch]

ok

[lavish finch]

Hu

[jolly agate]

It won’t let me

[lavish finch]

It won’t let you what?

[jolly agate]

Bruv

[lavish finch]

Hu?

[jolly agate]

😂😂😂👀.

I see, It’s just me

Never mind

We fight till our last drop of blood

[thorny steeple]

look, it greatly depends on how you define free will, my experience is that people vary on defining free will, some believe it to be pure randomness (they don't claim it, but I'm certain this is how they define it), others believe it's the freedom of choice which requires multiple options to be available, etc...
so most probably debating it would be to no avail, but I'm willing to propose my argument against determinism though.

[violet dragon]

so u believe in randomness?

since it seems to be the polar opposite of determinism

and ik that this debate will not result in anything conclusive. i just wanna understand how they think that knowledge held by a being such as god can mean the absence of free will

[thorny steeple]

if you mean pure randomness, which is the possibility that certain things move randomly without any external factors or laws that govern their movements, I would say I'm in a neutral position honestly, I don't know whether it exists or not, regardless of quantum mechanics.

[lavish finch]

Language is both undetermined and not random.

[formal scaffold]

When god wrote fate it doesn't mean he forced humans choices, He wrote what he knew beforehand, and the fact that he has a hand in fate as he please won't force your free will I think

[violet dragon]

ok instead of siding with pure randomness, how abt you share some thoughts on why you're against the claim of my original question?

[violet dragon]

'omniscience' only claims that he has 'knowledge' of everything. i think it would be inappropriate of an assumption to think that he laid down every single detail from the beginning to the end

[lavish finch]

Either it’s knowing everything or not.

[violet dragon]

wdym

the premise here is that he knows everything

we are arguing about a consequence of this premise

[lavish finch]

That would include every detail

[jolly agate]

Why

[violet dragon]

so it's not relevant to assume the opposite

[violet dragon]

yes being omniscient does allow god to 'know' every single detail, but what i tried to refute was the claim that he 'created' or 'planned' every single detail

[jolly agate]

You used the word “everything” that means everything even small details too, I do not see how that would be inappropriate to assume

[violet dragon]

you were getting somewhere. do you have a rebuttal to my argument?

[formal scaffold]

I just stated how i view it

[violet dragon]

so you still think that view is correct?

despite my rebuttal?

[formal scaffold]

I believe

[violet dragon]

so it's a matter of faith then?

if yes, then there's no point in continuing

[formal scaffold]

any matter on this is belief

[violet dragon]

true but bringing logic into the matter amplifies its apparent truth

better than blatant belief according to me

[formal scaffold]

you are free to point out anything you find illogical in my claim

[violet dragon]

if your faith is unwavering, there is no point in me trying

it kills the spirit yk

[jolly agate]

may be god wrote this conversation to occur.

[violet dragon]

but this is just a casual discussion on something we can never rlly be sure of

[formal scaffold]

there's no such thing I believe, there are degrees to faith and the utmost degree can be affected with the right method

if it's certainty then it wouldn't be belief right?

[violet dragon]

what is your highest degree of faith then

[violet dragon]

yes that's a good semantic catch

[formal scaffold]

I believe the highest are for those called prophets since they interacted with angels or god in an indirect way

[jolly agate]

Last was Jesus

have we had any more since then

[formal scaffold]

Mohamed pbuh for me

[thorny steeple]

I kind of understand the perspective of some people who argue against free will's existence through Allah's omniscient nature, it goes something like this:
premise one: Allah knows everything, past, present, and future events.
premise two: free will requires freedom of choice that are not predetermined by anything other than the agent itself.
conclusion: free will doesn't exist due to the simple fact that Allah knows what you're going to do before you do it, which means there is something that predetermines your future actions before you make them.

the problem I find in this argument is in the second premise, the fact that it attempts to explain free will through pure reasoning doesn't appeal to me, certain things in this world cannot be defined by words, and must be experienced in order to be correctly understood, such as explaining colors and lights to someone who is completely blind, which means he/she lacks the ability to see anything, even darkness and black.

[violet dragon]

u dismiss the idea that all those claims they made could have been tricks played on them by their mind, or brain i should say?

[formal scaffold]

I believe the bible was written by priest afterwords who claims that they were touched by the holy spirit or get inspired by god directly to write wouldn't that make them prophets?

[formal scaffold]

could be

[violet dragon]

my problem with premises such as these, as i said before, is the equation of 'knowledge' to the act of 'design'

[formal scaffold]

let's take it step by step do you believe god exist or any higher form ?

and what's his aspect or properties?

[violet dragon]

if u think abt it, that's not just a possibility, but a strong possibility

[violet dragon]

no, im an agnostic atheist

my belief can be somewhat summarized as 'i don't think the phenomena or events around me necessitate the existence of a conventional god'

but i don't straight up deny the existence of god either

cathing my drift?

[formal scaffold]

I do

what did you base that on if I may ask?

[thorny steeple]

I get your point, but their point is that Allah doesn't force you to do certain things, he only knows what you're going to do, which means there is something that causes you to make your future actions which is where Allah knows what you're going to do from.

[formal scaffold]

exactly that's a big misconseption by non muslims

[violet dragon]

i believed in a god, although not srsly, until the age of like 13, but after that i began to actually think

[formal scaffold]

I agree faith can shackle your freedom to think but it wont stop it, it'll just chanel it in a cetain direction

[thorny steeple]

I understand your stance, I was also once an agnostic atheist before I reverted to Islam.

[violet dragon]

once again, using the word 'causes' thinking it stems from an omniscient being's knowledge is a mistaken causation assumption

[jolly agate]

You are the master of your own fate

[violet dragon]

what converted u?

[thorny steeple]

it's the belief that you don't really know whether Allah exists or not, but you also don't believe in his existence or his non-existence.

[violet dragon]

i don't think that the reason i didn't 'think' is because i was a theist, but rather because i was young

there are many theists who think just as much as atheists and naturalists

[thorny steeple]

well, I was essentially in doubt of everything around me due to my questions about them, what converted me is simply knowledge.

[formal scaffold]

youngsters aren't good at thinking which is why they follow their envirement first and first thing they do to proove that they are free and not relying on that anymore is to refute most things they learned before

[violet dragon]

interpretation of that knowledge is subjective, but my interest rn is how you did so

[tawny shore]

Haha!

[violet dragon]

but i never left religion just to convince myself or anyone for that matter, that i had free will

it was the result of a few months of contemplation

that was all

the pandemic gave me a lot of time to expose myself to many different worldviews especially on youtube

[formal scaffold]

that's a general case def not you, but it happened to me i was a believer then stopped believing in the god they wanted me to believe in rather i shaped my own idea of god

[violet dragon]

so im not limited to my own thoughts either

[jolly agate]

You are

[violet dragon]

so you decided to change just as a refusal to follow your community's ideals?

the point is, it doesn't matter what caused you to question the way you see things

the experience different converts have had is what i'm here for

[violet dragon]

it wasn't meant to be that deep, i just meant that i got the perspectives of different ppl

[thorny steeple]

no, you haven't got my point, I'm saying that the fact that an entity can know what is going to happen before it happens is for them the lack of free will, since free will should not even be predicted, but I understand what you mean and it's totally valid, the problem is the assumption that Allah knows what you're going to do based on certain factors that cause you to make your actions is the assumption of determinism before even arguing about it, kind of a circular argument.

[formal scaffold]

yeah, and slowly still searching god since there's no clear conclusion to him and no clear answer to his being, which is one of the reasons why I chose islam since it claims that life is a test and yr brain isn't capable yet to understand god so you have to believe on him based on a few set of signes and using both yr brain and heart into strenghthening that

[violet dragon]

so it's a definitional thing. do you agree with them, since you're no longer an agnostic astheist

[thorny steeple]

what do you mean "interpretation of knowledge"?

[jolly agate]

I think you are delusional, if you think you got the perspective of different people. You may have some idea of what their perspective is but you can never fully comprehend their perspectives.

[formal scaffold]

if life is a test god won't give you a clear proof of his existence

meddling over a clear answer will be a waste of life

[violet dragon]

you don't understand the point of this discussion

[jolly agate]

May be

[violet dragon]

this seems to be like succumbing to comfort

[formal scaffold]

can't deny that it seem that way

[violet dragon]

so would you say you've chosen to go with pascal's wager?

[thorny steeple]

no, I believe in free will which has no single definition that can explain it properly, why so? it's self-evident, you only believe it exists if you experience it, a robot, despite its simulation of free will, is still a robot, which is programmed and determined by outside factors and some physical reactions.

[formal scaffold]

def

[violet dragon]

and yet, you claim to understand something that not even words can represent?

[formal scaffold]

My heart is open for any other answer that can best this but I find this one clearly logical, even tho it go against the normes I learned as a kid, I could understand some of them yet disagree with them emotionally

[violet dragon]

and back to my purpose of starting this whole thing

[formal scaffold]

smth that can't be understood but believed in ig

[violet dragon]

i wanted to understand how someone who believed in roughly the same thing as i did, changed themselves

[violet dragon]

im talking about this knowledge you speak of

[thorny steeple]

yes, the way you explain things to others essentially relies on their own past experience, if someone hasn't experienced what you're trying to explain, even if you spend your whole life trying to explain it to them, you'll only get somewhat close.

[violet dragon]

but you're not even trying to get that idea across

or is it so divine that it's just possible telepathically

ok listen it's fine if you cant

but this knowledge you speak of

i wanna know what you went through

[lavish finch]

There are plenty of things I have not experienced that I can understand.

And there are many things I have experienced that I cannot understand.

[thorny steeple]

I don't have to, people already experience their free will whether they believe it or not, it's as simple as that, it's pointless to try to use a hammer to solve a software bug, the proper tool is important if you wanna reach your goal, I don't believe free will can be explained by words, you'll only manage to approach the meaning of it.

[lavish finch]

I believe the idea that knowledge is based in experience is empiricism.

[violet dragon]

you sound like you've been in literally everyone's shoes.

to say that your belief is present in every human without a doubt is pretty arrogant

and that time will get them to recognize it

[lavish finch]

And the idea that experience is secondary to reason is rationalism.

[main bison]

hi James
Is green your last name?

[violet dragon]

thanks for you contribution :)

[craggy sphinx]

hello beings of the highest light

[thorny steeple]

what I'm saying is that there are certain things that you cannot understand properly unless you experience them.

[thorny steeple]

yes, I'm arrogant enough to assert. 😂
just kidding of course.

[violet dragon]

lo

l

[craggy sphinx]

bro, I listened to different kinds of music, but when I first listened to the Quran, Sura Al-Baqarah, I had an unusual feeling

[formal scaffold]

Do you think rationalism goes against relegions?

[craggy sphinx]

It's incredible. My molecules started to behave differently

[violet dragon]

damn a song so good that your molecules were shaking

[thorny steeple]

yes, Quran just has an entirely different feeling when reciting it, it feels very good.

or when you listen to it.

[formal scaffold]

especially if you don't understand it

[violet dragon]

lmfao

[craggy sphinx]

The potential pit that was holding them back seemed to have stopped working

This is unusual for me

[violet dragon]

so whats ur story

u a believer?

[craggy sphinx]

Tell me more about this book

[violet dragon]

@thorny steeple you still havent told me what that knowledge that converted u was

[lavish finch]

No not necessarily.

[formal scaffold]

I see thanks, I'm new to this and when I checked the definition it said that it goes against it, so I think the def was surface level.

[craggy sphinx]

I read the translation of this surah, and I did not have any contradictory thoughts.

[formal scaffold]

Weird

[violet dragon]

an atheist?

[thorny steeple]

I'm just being lazy to type all that. xD
one sec, I'll reply to one of my old messages here in the chat that explains that much.

[violet dragon]

ight

[craggy sphinx]

But, verses 100 - 103 were really questionable when I first read them

I've also noticed that everything in this book is connected. Each successive surah reveals the previous one

[lavish finch]

Rationalism and empiricism are claims about where knowledge comes from - reason or experience. Thinkers from both have made arguments for and against the existence of God.

[formal scaffold]

verse 68 was weird to me, "slaughter the cow that is yellow pleasing to the eye" I didn't translate it but the general meaning is this

[violet dragon]

my bad for not being clear. r u an atheist?

[lavish finch]

I am

[violet dragon]

ic

[formal scaffold]

why it can't be both claims are right?

[thorny steeple]

@violet dragon
you can start reading from here, I was proposing my reasons to believe Allah exists and that it's totally provable, in fact, it's a necessity that he exists.

[lavish finch]

I believe that God doesn’t exist and I acknowledge that this is a belief not some thing I can prove.

[craggy sphinx]

Yes, religion is based on faith

[formal scaffold]

you know the true order of the book isn't that you find in quran books right?

[craggy sphinx]

In any case, I liked the sound of the verses in this book

[violet dragon]

a combination of purpose and the teleological argument in a nutshell?

[lavish finch]

Religion is a claim to knowledge where there is no reason for belief.

[craggy sphinx]

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "truth"

I assumed this because you used it for no reason to do so

[craggy sphinx]

no knowledge

[thorny steeple]

yes.

[craggy sphinx]

I don't recognize knowledge

[violet dragon]

interesting. i'll give more thoughts to these 2 and try to see things with a wider perspective

maybe i'll be 'enlightened' somehow

[lavish finch]

Do you think all knowledge is impossible?

[craggy sphinx]

What do you mean by "impossible"?

[violet dragon]

bro you're not jordan peterson

[lavish finch]

(smile)

[craggy sphinx]

oh damn

[thorny steeple]

alrighty.

[violet dragon]

but continue lol

[lavish finch]

I recognize knowledge. I am a rationalist.

[thorny steeple]

Lol. xD

[formal scaffold]

can someone be both rationalist and empirist?

[craggy sphinx]

I don't quite understand in what context you used it. This is a vague concept.

To know is to be 100% sure of it. I don't think you can be sure of anything

[violet dragon]

do you believe that god exists only in your mind?

[lavish finch]

You made a sweeping claim. You don’t recognize knowledge.

[thorny steeple]

no, I believe Allah objectively exists.

[violet dragon]

and you say that no 'knowledge' is necessary for you to assert this?

[craggy sphinx]

(smile)

[thorny steeple]

I don't follow.

what do you mean?

[violet dragon]

oh shit i thought i was talking to the eisen guy

[thorny steeple]

(not being jordan peterson though 🤡 )

[lavish finch]

Imitation is the highest form of flattery.

[violet dragon]

cuz he made the claim that knowledge doesn't exist

[craggy sphinx]

This is not imitation, lol

[thorny steeple]

I think @craggy sphinx is kind of a nihilist, aren't you Esian?

[violet dragon]

but god is enough of a reason to declare purpose in life tho

[lavish finch]

You weren’t imitating me when you responded with the word smile in parentheses?

[craggy sphinx]

no , I practice the school of Pyrrhonism

[violet dragon]

tf is this

[jolly agate]

what’s sup

[craggy sphinx]

This is not imitation

[jolly agate]

beings of upper light

[violet dragon]

basically skepticism?

[craggy sphinx]

?

[lavish finch]

What is it?

[violet dragon]

after all this time, u tell me you're not a believer?

[craggy sphinx]

I didn't say I was an unbeliever or a believer

[jolly agate]

haha

[violet dragon]

weren't u just praising the quran?

[thorny steeple]

I see.

[craggy sphinx]

I gave an assessment

[violet dragon]

in the form of a praise?

wha

[jolly agate]

Parsing doesn’t mean believer or unbelievable

[violet dragon]

bro go read the whole thing first

[jolly agate]

ok (:

[craggy sphinx]

No, I liked the way it sounded

[violet dragon]

alright

[serene birch]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xthzy1PxTA

[craggy sphinx]

Really, I didn't expect it to be so relaxing.

Maybe it's because I'm doing it for the first time.

[lavish finch]

Join the conversation

[violet dragon]

is a nuclear war related to god tho

[lavish finch]

No that’s why I’m asking him to join the conversation

Rather than posting a non sequitur

[serene birch]

I support peace and science

[violet dragon]

lol

[serene birch]

Our greatest enemies are states even our state.

[violet dragon]

ok do u think the science we've done so far points to a supernatural creator?

[serene birch]

ofcourse

[violet dragon]

how're u so certain

[lavish finch]

States are certainly a threat. So is our own ignorance.

[serene birch]

I'ma a game developer, you understand very well that things don't come into existence randomly.

[violet dragon]

a loose analogy like that cannot back up something as grand as the universe

so that's literally all it took to convince u?

[jolly agate]

since you guys are a believer in god, does it mean you also believe in magic?? Magic of higher form

[violet dragon]

lol

[serene birch]

Everything is possible...

[jolly agate]

so magic is real

[serene birch]

Actually, the monitor we are looking at right now isn't it like magic?

[jolly agate]

no

[serene birch]

It is a phenomenon that we create by bringing together several components.

[violet dragon]

actually tho if i were in the 10th century

[serene birch]

You watch real videos by transferring text codes.

[violet dragon]

go ahead.

[serene birch]

Everything is Possible............

[violet dragon]

bro how is that a conclusion

[serene birch]

We can do whatever we want.

[thorny steeple]

magic is stated in Islam many times, I believe magic exists.
but to answer how, is something beyond my knowledge.

[serene birch]

I have no ieda

[violet dragon]

this somehow validates the existence of god?

to be clear u talking abt christianity?

or a different view altogether

[serene birch]

Even if 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 light years pass, we will not be able to prove the existence of God. And absence. I choose to believe.

Because we don't even know how big the universe is.

[violet dragon]

so just faith and no real arguments, if im right

[serene birch]

No one is right or wron.g This discussion is in vain. even right or wrong is not clear. It may vary from region to region and place to place.

[thorny steeple]

no he is right, the existence of the universe must have a first cause, nothing doesn't produce something, it's an impossibility, and it appeals to the first law of logic, the law of non-contradiction.

[violet dragon]

so becuz of the inconclusiveness and pointlessness of the argument, you decide to simply cut all the drama and believe in god, ryt?

[jolly agate]

How do you guys always end up on god

[serene birch]

Yes I dont like risks.

[violet dragon]

fair enough

[jolly agate]

you will gain nothing for this discussion

[violet dragon]

we're aware lmfao

[jolly agate]

But we do it

[thorny steeple]

you can certain prove the existence of Allah, there is simply no other choice 'cause countless of things in this world points out to his existence.

[violet dragon]

it's just fun learning of new perspectives on something which seems so basic and obvious to oneself

[jolly agate]

What about the other gods

[serene birch]

For me, god is an increadible scientist and programmer. He is not a white-beared granpa who is punishing people.

[thorny steeple]

but you can only claim that you're not yet convinced or you don't know whether he exists or not, it would be then a valid point.

[violet dragon]

ok lemme ask u this, u say that something can't come from nothing becuz you haven't seen it happen

[serene birch]

I do not hgesitate to say Allah-u Akbar.

just arabic.

[violet dragon]

damnn this is new

[late fern]

Yeah

[jolly agate]

He isn’t the best plumber though

[sharp jetty]

Did Neli Loster changed the time for the class all of a sudden?

[thorny steeple]

nope, that's not what I'm saying, I didn't see it happen because it's impossible.

not the other way around.

[sharp jetty]

It was 20 mins before the class would start already because I was waiting

[violet dragon]

my point is a lack of evidence isn't enough to conclude his existence

[serene birch]

we should not expect everything from him.

or her, ggrrrr English.

[violet dragon]

it may seem absurd i agree

[violet dragon]

so u dont follow any religion

per se

[serene birch]

I follow every religion.

[thorny steeple]

yes, I know, and my argument is not based on lack of evidence, it's based on evidence that nothing doesn't produce something, i.e., nothing comes out of nothing without a cause.

[violet dragon]

bro wat

[jolly agate]

you can’t

[jolly agate]

How tf you do that

[serene birch]

I'm muslim, jew, christian, budisht... and more and more

[jolly agate]

That’s just a complete lie

[thorny steeple]

what now, are you gonna invent a new religion my bro? 😂

[violet dragon]

the kalam cosmological argument is annoying lol

[ebon pelican]

Bro created a new religion for himself

[thorny steeple]

yup, I believe it's irrefutable. xD

[violet dragon]

so the aggregate of all religions is basically a programmer

[serene birch]

I didn't invent any religion I follow already existed religions.

Is there such a rule that I won't do this?

[jolly agate]

no but seriously I can tell that you haven’t even studied the top religion properly.

[jolly agate]

You can’t follow all the religion

[serene birch]

If I say " Alhamdurillah I'm christian" Elohim will punish me?

[serene birch]

I can, and I am already.

[violet dragon]

my problem is the fact that u consider the universe to be a regular 'thing' and second, that the entire universe had a beginning, the big bang theory only claims that the observable universe begain 14 billion yrs ago

[violet dragon]

bro u should have just stopped with god is a programming scientist

[serene birch]

Beyond that, he is not primitive like us.

[violet dragon]

yes 'programmer' in the human sense is just a metaphor

[serene birch]

I don't like when people have empty ego 🙂

[violet dragon]

im not condemning you for your beliefs

it's just you inferred something form your original statment that made no real sense

[thorny steeple]

what do you mean the observable universe? the "universe" as a whole started 13.8 billion years ago, there is no "observable" and "non-observable" universes, what does that even mean.

[serene birch]

thanks for chat... My coffee is over. I should back to codding. Stay in peace. And Try not to kill eachother. We have infinite resources on the earth do not worry about it.

[ebon pelican]

i think it's fine for you to live your life the way you want, no one has the right to forcefully impose their beliefs and religion on others, we can agree or disagree while maintaining a respectful environment.

[violet dragon]

look it up, we differentiate the observable and the unobservable universe based on the fact that space and time as WE know it started 14 billion years ago

to assume that it is the entirety of what we live in is, not ridiculous, but not logical either

once again, we can literally never know what lies beyond the observable universe

so colloquially, we just use the word 'universe' to mean observable universe

[thorny steeple]

I know what an unobservable universe mean, it means the region of the universe that is far away from us to observe, that's all there is it to it, if that's what you mean then no, the unobservable region of the universe is also included in the big bang theory.

[violet dragon]

pretty sure that's wrong

the cmb disproves everything you said

[thorny steeple]

huh? do you mean the cosmic microwave background?

if so please tell me how come, I'm certain it does not even imply that the unobservable universe is not included in the big bang, I don't even understand how our observation trims the universe so that only that part is the one included in the theory.

with all due respect, it's nonsense to me.

[violet dragon]

r u asking me to explain y u think what you're thinking?

that's your job lol

[lavish finch]

agreed

and the human mind has limits

[thorny steeple]

nah, first of all, what I said is that the universe is a whole thing, it's not magically trimmed when we observe it, you're the one who claimed the cosmic microwave background disproves the whole thing, but you haven't provided the explanation, so is your source "trust me bro"? 😂
the cosmic microwave background is one of the most important evidence in favor of the big bang in the first place.

[violet dragon]

you don't understand the implications of the big bang theory

[thorny steeple]

I do.

[violet dragon]

just let it sink in that the universe we know and understand, is what began 14 billion years ago

the 'observable' universe

have anything to say yet?

any rebuttals

[thorny steeple]

yes, sure, it's still nonsense, what happened to the universe we haven't observe? was it there all along and only the big bang theory applies on the region we observed?

[lavish finch]

Interesting. So the big bang was 14 billion years ago. but the observable universe is currently 93 billion light years wide.

[formal scaffold]

Concepts are bigger and far important than the universe, (time, space, absence, presence, movement), I think dwelling about their existnace is more important than the universe start itself

[thorny steeple]

right.

[violet dragon]

that's related to my real point. hear me out. no sentient being in the universe can know what lies beyond the observable universe. as a result of that, a lot of room is available to explain, although without any conclusiveness, what could be beyond it. theists jump onto this opporunity like there's no tmrw and 'fill the gap' by saying 'GOD'

lol

[lavish finch]

It's a comforting idea.

[violet dragon]

exactly

i'd be fine if they agree that they're going with the pascal's wager

but they don't

so idk what they rlly are trying lmao

[thorny steeple]

so you believe the laws of physics are different in the unobservable universe?

[violet dragon]

as i said, no conclusion can be drawn

idk how to make that clearer

[lavish finch]

I try to be as gentle as possible when talking to people who are wrong.

[violet dragon]

i think this discussion is going pretty smoothly. no hostility, which is nice.

even if there's humour, it's lighthearted

had to make that clear lol

[thorny steeple]

okay, I get your idea, so we haven't observed the unobserved region of the universe and therefore it's illogical or irrational to think that it's the same as the observable universe, but, still the fact that you pulled the God of gaps card here is absurd, we are essentially talking about the unobserved universe, it's totally irrelevant to whether or not Allah exists.

[violet dragon]

why do u think i brought this up, it's cuz u were trying to say that god was the ultimate cause behind 'THE universe'.cmon i had to explain the difference

[formal scaffold]

I have a problem with the word exist, Allah made rules and concepts like place and time, both can't affect him

[violet dragon]

and wat is allah doing here, ive only used the word 'God' in my arguments

[formal scaffold]

might be surprising to you but christian arab calls jesus allah

allah translate to god in arabic

even before the birth of mohamed PBUH this word was used

[violet dragon]

NAHHHH

[formal scaffold]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-25269231

[formal scaffold]

Etymologically, the name Allah is probably a contraction of the Arabic al-Ilāh, “the God.” The name's origin can be traced to the earliest Semitic writings in which the word for god was il, el, or eloah, the latter two used in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament).

[violet dragon]

uhhh ok ig

[formal scaffold]

you are welcome

[thorny steeple]

just because there is a region that is unobserved in the universe doesn't mean that it's the one that caused the universe to exist, really! for God's sake, how are we even trimming the universe there, I cannot understand that! 😭
the unobserved region of the universe is still a part of the universe, it's a whole thing, maybe you're referring to something else that perhaps existed before the universe, but the universe itself refers to the observed and unobserved parts of it.

[violet dragon]

we can conveniently trim the universe today becuz the speed of light is constant, and also accounting for expansion

[thorny steeple]

also, where is your explanation that the cosmic microwave background somehow disproves the inclusion of the unobserved universe in the big bang theory?

[violet dragon]

so by universe, u refer to the entirety of the universe?

[violet dragon]

the cmb forms the boundary of the 'observable', which means, it's the oldest remnant of the universe which we deal with or will ever deal with

[thorny steeple]

yes I do, the observed and the unobserved, there is no reason whatsoever to believe other regions of the same universe are somehow trimmed from what we can observe and decides to follow a whole different laws of physics.

[violet dragon]

but this assumes that the rest of the universe is just like the observable

there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest this

[thorny steeple]

yes, it's called deduction.

[violet dragon]

lmao how so

[thorny steeple]

literally every part of the current observable universe is an evidence, your idea suggests that the universe is trimmed somehow, and is not a whole, that's a claim that puts the burden of proof upon you primarily.

[violet dragon]

you're the one making the claim that the rest of the universe is the same as ours. i state that since there is a 0% chance of witnessing anything from the outside, it is of no consequence, AND, nothing can be discerned about it. clearly the burden is on you

[thorny steeple]

I'm making the claim that it's most likely the same as ours, the universe according to all of our observations appears to be homogeneous and isotropic, it's verified consistent in different parts of the observable universe.
the laws of physics are widely considered to be fundamental, they are elegant and simple, also it has been successfully the only explanation for the universe, therefore, there is no reason to believe the unobserved universe somehow have its own laws of physics, it's true that the universe is so mysterious and there are a lot of things that we still don't know about it, but there has to be a ground or fundamental laws that govern all of it, that's why I can't really believe that the unobserved universe magically follows different laws, even if it's not observed, observation is not the only thing to know the truth of something.

[thorny steeple]

Allah is the God, that's known for all Muslims, Allah is the one and only God.

[violet dragon]

you are using evidence gathered from the observable universe to validate the rest of the universe, when we literally define the beginning of the observable universe to also be the beginning of space and time. your claim doesn't have any substance to it, whatsoever.

this seems to be getting us nowhere

[thorny steeple]

hello guys

what is conversion subject

[main bison]

Can your cousin be your girlfriend ?
I know its a weird question

[thorny steeple]

premise: there has been no indication at all of different laws that govern various regions of the universe we observed.
premise: the region of the universe we observed began with the big bang.
conclusion: there is no reason to believe that the universe we haven't observed yet or will likely to never observe is any different than the one we observed.

your argument is based on observations only, while we essentially have many things we know but we haven't essentially observed, so you're proposing an option that is unverifiable, has no evidence whatsoever, and is honestly impossible to explain.

[craggy sphinx]

Eternal disputes

[thorny steeple]

nah, I'll stop it here. 😂

[violet dragon]

u just said that the universe isn't governed by laws. like wat

[craggy sphinx]

what?

[thorny steeple]

your child in future

[violet dragon]

we need a few more ppl to weigh in

[craggy sphinx]

What laws are you talking ?

[violet dragon]

sure as long as u didn't penetrate her

[violet dragon]

r u telling me u dont think the universe is governed by laws>?

[craggy sphinx]

Where did I say that?

[violet dragon]

lol

then wat is the point of your asking?

[craggy sphinx]

what laws

[violet dragon]

r u genuinely unaware of the laws?

[craggy sphinx]

If you are talking about laws in general, then this is incorrect

[violet dragon]

no need to be vague just get to the point

[craggy sphinx]

You're the one who is vague. You need to clarify

[violet dragon]

you can't jump in the middle of a discussion and demand that one of us explains everything to u. if u wanna weigh in, read everything that's happened so far

[craggy sphinx]

..

[violet dragon]

and i think this discussion is dead now

with no conclusion as expected

so im out

[craggy sphinx]

The laws that are observed in the Universe and those that we have on Earth are different

There are a lot of things that are still unexplored. For example, how antigravity affects objects in the universe. Or rather, what influences it and its composition.

[thorny steeple]

Lol, yeah yeah sure, whatever you want my bro.

imagine saying the cosmic microwave background disproves the inclusion of the unobserved universe, while denying any evidence that the universe is not the same in all regions. xD

[craggy sphinx]

There were opinions about the isotropy of the universe

[violet dragon]

you're still here

you're putting words in my mouth. what i claimed that the cmb disproves is YOUR understanding of the 'unobservable', not wat the 'rest of the universe' or the 'unobservable universe' actually means. basically i claimed that your understanding of the 'rest' of the universe was flawed, and explained why with the cmb.

[craggy sphinx]

This is not a private opinion, this is what the community of scientists claims

[violet dragon]

dude if you really think it is right to claim that something you can never witness is endowed with any proposed properties, just because they share the common word 'universe', you're making some srsly bad assumptions

and it can't lead anywhere while maintaining the focus on god

so idk why this is even going on

[craggy sphinx]

Cool down, man

I don't know why you were so sharp on my message

[violet dragon]

wat

[thorny steeple]

nah, I'm not putting anything in your mouth, with respect, you're just being inconsistent, you're saying right now that you brought it to disprove my understanding of it, which is that the unobserved universe is no different the ours and that there is no reason to believe otherwise, the CMB is essentially one evidence for my claim, not against it, it's one of the strongest arguments in favor of the isotropy of the universe, the small-scale anisotropies in the CMB (such as cosmic dipole moment) is considered to be caused by local effects, it's overwhelmingly proven that the universe is unified and isotropic.

[craggy sphinx]

but you're talking about laws in general, without specifying...

[violet dragon]

'everything you said', which is talking about your understanding that is articulated via your mouth lol, how is this not wat i stated

[thorny steeple]

yeah, this is called a solid ground when there is no single evidence that supports any other hypothetical explanation, if it's considered an assumption to you, then no need to keep this discussion going 'cause you don't wanna be convinced.

[craggy sphinx]

Why persuade someone?

[violet dragon]

there is a better and more modest choice instead of making proposals like god. just accept that you're insignificant in this universe

[thorny steeple]

OMG! are you being for real!? 😂
you're just claiming something that is not against my understanding, it's literally in favor of it.

[thorny steeple]

yes right, there is no reason, especially if he doesn't wanna be convinced, it's gonna be pointless. 🤝

Why are you two arguing over something someone with anime pfp said?

[violet dragon]

space and time literally started with the big bang 14 billion years ago, and the 'rest' of the universe im referring to isn't included in this definitionally.

[violet dragon]

i started this

[craggy sphinx]

hello

[violet dragon]

and that premise about laws not being indicated of in any region of the universe

wht was all that abt

[craggy sphinx]

dude😅

[thorny steeple]

I'm trying to stop, but his claims triggers my instinct to refute anything that contradicts the reality. 🥲

alright, seriously, I'll ignore anything regarding this topic now.

[violet dragon]

how abt i start with how the cmb refutes your argument on the homogeneity of the 'entire' universe

oh srsly now u leave

lol

[craggy sphinx]

Reality must exist independently of your will.

[thorny steeple]

yes, you had all the time to do that, you just couldn't.

[violet dragon]

the universe beyond the cmb has not been obeserved in any way

[thorny steeple]

I mean you had all the time to refute my argument through the CMB.

[craggy sphinx]

Does it have a limit?

[thorny steeple]

and you couldn't.

[violet dragon]

time and space literally began with the big bang, and nothing can be said about the furthest point observable which is also a sign of the earlist point in time

[craggy sphinx]

What happened before?

[violet dragon]

this is exactly what it sounds like to ask about what lies beyond the universe we observe. the laws just break down, and even speculation seems absurd since we would be dealing with something that we have never even conceived of

the cmb is the oldest light the universe has

it is literally the oldest remnant of the big bang

[craggy sphinx]

oh ye

[violet dragon]

if you really want to believe in your speculations that have no evidence whatsoever then a debate is not the place for it

[craggy sphinx]

But we know if the laws worked before the explosion

[violet dragon]

we dont

[craggy sphinx]

again

[violet dragon]

a debate is built on logical arguments

speculations with literally no evidence or backup is just plain blatant faith

and to use that figment of one's self to try to explain to someone why they think something is true is just pointless and contradictory

even when the discussion is on something like god

[craggy sphinx]

Why don't you want a connection? Why are you so negative about talking?

[violet dragon]

sharing experiences is fine

[craggy sphinx]

no

[violet dragon]

but using that derogatorily to explain why it's reasonable that god exists is just not right or in the spirit of a debate

[craggy sphinx]

It's not an experience. It's hatred and anger

[violet dragon]

i started this whole thing to get a new perspective, which i think i got, but not really anything useful

[craggy sphinx]

(leaving)

[violet dragon]

it was new but it was at a standstill for too long despite there being obvious fallacies

idk man some of it was fine ig

[thorny steeple]

hey guys, having fun?

Let's talk about guilt. What is guilt, and how do you handle it?

Or teach me to get rid of the guilt if someone knows the solution.

[ebon pelican]

You can't keep blaming yourself. Just blame yourself once, and move on - HomerJ Simpson

[craggy sphinx]

hello
It's normal when you feel this way. This indicates that you have done something wrong and try not to make similar mistakes again.

There is also a possibility that you accidentally fell into such circumstances, and for some reason you began to blame yourself for it. In that case, you need to calm your mind and ask yourself, is this my fault? Why did this happen this way?Could I have done it better?

I don't see any reason to get rid of this feeling.

[slender ocean]

first of all i think you should constructively judge the situation you feel guilt about and then ONLY IF you have done something wrong you should do something to reduce the damage or any other negative effect. The rest thing has been said earlier - move on

my answer may be banal

[craggy sphinx]

great !

[craggy sphinx]

no

[slender ocean]

thank you! 🙂

[craggy sphinx]

Yes, I agree with that.

Constantly blaming yourself for this is stupid and irrational. So, you're wasting your time and won't be able to get anything out of it.

[craggy sphinx]

No worries

You can share your ideas

[tawny shore]

Hmm! Nice.

[thorny steeple]

https://youtu.be/RuiXKsvaqi4?si=HOAWHLT_CfoPkgmj

[thorny steeple]

for educational purposes.

https://youtube.com/shorts/2T50bvdd1Q8?si=_acOAaPtxV34GSHT

[shrewd garden]

I just made a reading and listening test. I got c1-c2 niveau, I am really happy with that.

[static swift]

Congratulations

Did you use duolingo

[oak sphinx]

I think I am a upper-intermediate. I can understand YouTube videos, normally spoken podcasts etc without subtitles. Like maybe 90%.
But today I decided to go further and I ( tried ) watched Oppenheimer in English. And it was my first time watching it. I didn't get anything and it's even worse because the storyline is a little bit complex. I just gave up at one point.
So English learners, was it also that difficult to understand movies ? How did you overcome it ?

[formal scaffold]

Depends on the movies, if they use US english, Uk eglish, or plain old english

[jolly agate]

I think it’s about time

I should change my profile picture

[formal scaffold]

the MC is british but I reckon he used US english in that movie

[thorny steeple]

Well ig the podcasts and other videos talks about mostly relatable or everyday used words, Oppenheimer is a science movie so it's mostly science meanings mostly complicated words (opinion)

[oak sphinx]

It was US English. And I'm better at it because I'm even learning the American accent. But I think it's because of the variation of the voices, the tones etc. Different from podcasts, etc

[oak sphinx]

That's what I thought at the beginning. But after it was about his romantic life but I don't think I understood even 30%.
I thought my English was already good 😪🫤

[thorny steeple]

Don't worry you will have it

[oak sphinx]

When ? How ?

[oak sphinx]

Do you understand movies? Because your role is beginner and I was wondering if you do

[thorny steeple]

Achieving something requires efforts and time and dedication. Learned English by playing games and watching movies and chatting

Did for almost everyday, kept learning new words

[thorny steeple]

I do ye, but not 100% but some words add up to the meaning I can understand a sentence even with a word I don't understand by knowing the other words

[formal scaffold]

I didn't watch that shiznit, I'm not into hyped up stuff.

[thorny steeple]

Neither, but I like to know about science to understand the creation of my creator more

[oak sphinx]

Oh okay. But at beginning was it difficult?

[thorny steeple]

I do not remember my begging to be honest, but I don't think it was, I always used to watch with subtitles, but recently been just watching without

[oak sphinx]

Oh yes I see

[oak sphinx]

I did think like that before. But when a movie has a lot of hype now you're sure it is a good one so you will not waste your time and money

[formal scaffold]

It doesn't matter if it's either good or bad, I'm just like that by nature

advertising movies have an opposite effect for me, my high hopes for them might be crushed under the modest performance

[proud summit]

Hello people, i want to ask you some questions related to canada as a country and i really hope to find somebody who could give me reliable answers. You can write me in DMs as well, it would be easier that way for both of us

[gaunt bronze]

Hello!

[gaunt bronze]

You've found the exact person you're looking for (I hope)!

[proud summit]

Thanks for replying, please look at yours DMs

[craggy sphinx]

hello beings of the highest light

[craggy sphinx]

I'd love to hear your ideas about:
How do you understand understanding?

after all, thoughts that you don't understand are meaningless

Tell me what it means to you to "understand"?

[thorny steeple]

A person who always thinks has nothing to think about except thoughts

[ebon pelican]

When we use the term "understand," it implies that we are comprehending the subject thoroughly

[serene birch]

For an object to reach the maximum speed of light (299,792 kms (about 186,282mps)), the form of that object must be light. Do not forget this.

[thorny steeple]

can a woman and a man be friend only? without sexual interest

[static pivot]

Yes

[cobalt drum]

yes , of course

we are in agreement

[latent pelican]

yes, i’m a girl and i have a good friend that’s a boy that i have no sexual or romantic interest in and he does not like me

[static pivot]

Lol

[cobalt drum]

god

[static pivot]

@serene birch politely delete this comment

Or I'll delete you

[latent pelican]

i wish you didn’t

[static pivot]

and do not repeat

[serene birch]

But it is truth

[static pivot]

Be human buddy

For you

[serene birch]

lol

[static pivot]

Yeah

[cobalt drum]

this is really sad

[static pivot]

Keep it to yourself

[latent pelican]

some things are inside thoughts

[serene birch]

Sorry I share my opinion, I'm very primitive man

[static pivot]

Presentation is an important part. That's not how you share your opinion

[serene birch]

Everyone knows it was a joke anyway.

But I forget this place is serious, true.

[latent pelican]

Jokes are funny

[cobalt drum]

the difference between lower levels of animals and us in the kingdom. is our possession ofn relatively higher level of intelligence, not just instinct, so now, you know in which level of the hierarchy you belong ?

[cobalt drum]

not when they are offensive

[serene birch]

yes bottom.

[thorny steeple]

ok ı got this is (a friendship betnween girl and boy) is a possible thing

[serene birch]

ofcourse...

[thorny steeple]

but we must approve this reality,eighty percent of woman-man friendships are containing sexual interest actually

real friendships are in minority

[cobalt drum]

citation please?

[serene birch]

this is absolutely true

you know the truth

[static pivot]

Based on what?

Cite the source

[serene birch]

Our life experienced ofc

[cobalt drum]

then you have no problem furnishing us with the source?

[thorny steeple]

I didnt said this as academic scientific reality

This is my opinion

[serene birch]

I wanted to make such a joke because most women saw me that way. Otherwise, I see humans as humans.

If you are a man with good physical features, muscular and athletic, this is how you are seen by women.

The real reason and purpose of their friendship is very clear. However, we are looking for solid friendships.

[thorny steeple]

I must say this i have got Real friendship with womans

[latent pelican]

what’s the source?

[thorny steeple]

But ı experienced a lot of friendship that is hidding sexual and romantic interest of man in my social environment,in Turkey we have got a word only for this circumstance,we are saying this "Meriçlik"

We are saying "Meriç" to man who is doing "Meriçlik"

[latent pelican]

you might be an outlier, also even if it is 80% of friendships that have sexual interest that does not mean just friendship is not possible

[thorny steeple]

So "Meriç" means a Man who is pretending like a friend and actually wants to be boyfriend with girl

[cobalt drum]

then be careful expressing your opinion as it might be taken as a fact (empirical)

[serene birch]

He wants to talk about the beginning. The first impression.

Which cat would you take into your home, spend time with and live with? Be honest.

[thorny steeple]

I said that just friendship is possible

[thorny steeple]

.

[thorny steeple]

I dont love cats because of this i wont answer this question

[serene birch]

This is an option, of course, that's exactly what I wanted to talk about.

[latent pelican]

the left one looks more like my old cat, but i think the right one is cuter so i’m unsure but i’ll go with the right one

[serene birch]

No matter how upset we are, no matter how hard we accept it, no matter how much we deny it. Primitive instincts are a part of our lives, a phenomenon that we have inherited from the universe.

[flat obsidian]

Hi, i won't take any cat, because i'mafraid of cats

[serene birch]

read the topic which we are talking about already. It is not fully about cats 😄

it is an example

[thorny steeple]

I think it's possible, but difficult, the closer they are the more likely they'll have some kind of intimacy, and I don't generally agree with having a close friend of the opposite sex (I mean a friend that could potentially be as close as a friend of the same sex).

[flat obsidian]

😆👀

[thorny steeple]

I can't have either of them, I'm allergic to cats, sadly. 🥴

[serene birch]

This is an evolution process that takes billions of years, and this is not an issue that can be overcome in 2-3 days. 🙂

No, this example is an indication that people actually prefer something. Even friendships are based on this. Everything that looks good, alive and strong is the priority choice.

[thorny steeple]

you could shower the one on the left, she might be cuter after being clean.

[ruby frigate]

Hello everyone. Any new updates?

[serene birch]

yes we are on the verge of switching to 3.1v

Hello

[ruby frigate]

Oh, nice!!

By the way, what's with the 3.1v?

[thorny steeple]

wait, were we in the 3.0 release all along??

xD

[ruby frigate]

I guess.

[thorny steeple]

I guess ı couldnt understand can you explain more clearly?

[ruby frigate]

What's new with version 3.1??

[thorny steeple]

I honestly don't know what he's even talking about, I'm just kinda nodding along. 😂

[serene birch]

Enhanced Cognitive Abilities: "Human 3.1 Update Unleashes Enhanced Intelligence and Cognitive Skills."
Improved Physical Resilience: "Upgrade 3.1 Boosts Human Physical Resilience – Better Adaptation to Environmental Challenges."
Extended Lifespan: "Breaking News: Human 3.1 Version Comes with Extended Lifespan – Average Age Now 150 Years!"
Advanced Social Harmony Features: "Upgrade 3.1 Promotes Enhanced Social Harmony – Reduction in Conflict and Improved Communication."
Biological Upgrades: "Human 3.1 Features Biological Enhancements – Improved Immunity and Disease Resistance."
Environmental Adaptation: "3.1 Update Allows Humans to Better Thrive in Diverse Environments – From Deep Sea to Outer Space."
Integrated Sensory Augmentations: "Breaking Through Limits – Human 3.1 Integrates Enhanced Sensory Capabilities."
Ethical and Moral Development: "Update 3.1 Spurs Ethical Evolution – Humans Now Inherently Inclined Toward Altruism."
Gender and Diversity Equality: "Human 3.1 Eradicates Gender and Diversity Gaps – Equality at the Core of the Upgrade."
Enhanced Learning and Education: "Education Revolution: 3.1 Upgrade Facilitates Rapid Learning and Skill Acquisition."

Features coming with the new update...

[ruby frigate]

😐

[serene birch]

I don't know either. Don't worry.

[thorny steeple]

I mean that there is a very high risk of involving in a sexual intercourse between friends of the opposite sex, but I'm not deny that in some cases it's somewhat possible to have a mere friendship, it's just not the norm.

[latent pelican]

i meant that my old cat was black with orange spots, not that she was dirty.

[ruby frigate]

😮 .

[thorny steeple]

Lol, yeah, evolution is a myth so funny. xD

[thorny steeple]

Lol. xD

[humble lion]

Flare

[thorny steeple]

I see, I also used to have many cats, that was before my mom let them go 'cause we discovered I'm allergic. >:(

[serene birch]

I suggest you to read and learn about BAKARA-30

[ruby frigate]

What's a "BAKARA-30"?

[thorny steeple]

yo Elllnd! how is it going my friend? 🤍

[serene birch]

google it 🙂

[thorny steeple]

done, it's a beautiful verse, it shows that Allah knows that we might shed blood and cause destruction, but he has the wisdom that the angels don't have, and he surely knows the best.

[humble lion]

Uhh Disciplineless!. Hbu flare

[serene birch]

But they say that angels will shed blood and cause corruption and will do this in the "Dunia". So, they have learned this and they know that there is something to be killed here. Evolution.

Denying evolution is the same as denying God. He gave us wisdom so that we can use it and we need to use it.

But of course I respect everyone's opinion.

[thorny steeple]

don't say that, it's a skill that you can hone, just work a little harder and you'll become more discipline.
for me, I'm doing good, trying to also be more discipline, and deal with the tones of work I have on my plate.

[humble lion]

Same, trying to adapt to the real life and it's mandatories... good luck flare eyes got brighter after seeing u

[serene birch]

I'm still trying to figure out how could i rotate the smoothly to an actor at 90 degrees. However, other components are not rotating with mesh.

Especially scene component have to.

[thorny steeple]

I'm not denying evolution as a concept, I'm just denying the theory that has been shoved down our throat for decades, you can even see the term used in many scientific literature when it's completely irrelevant, it just doesn't have anything proper scientific evidence to support it.

and also angels are not the people who're meant in the verse that would shed blood and cause corruption and destruction, it's humans.

[serene birch]

Take care of yourselves, I have to leave a chat. As I have much more important matters.

[thorny steeple]

alright my friend, see ya, maybe I can destroy that myth for you later. :)

[serene birch]

I Believe Greatest Allah. And many things are myths.

[thorny steeple]

wish you all the best. 💜

[serene birch]

I just like synthesizing things.

[humble lion]

Likewise

[lavish finch]

Here

Anyone else here?

Leaving

[violet dragon]

@thorny steeple i've given it some thought, and am willing to accept that the unobservable universe might not be very different from the observable universe, and that the entire universe could be traced back to the big bang. i realized that i was misusing the words 'unobservable' and 'rest' in reference to the universe; what i actually had in my mind when i was using those words was some form of 'nothing' which was around just before the big bang 'happened', and which was pushed away farther due to the expansion. seeing that this in itself goes against what the universe claims to be, and that 'nothing' is not a 'thing', but rather, simply, a pronoun meaning the 'absence of anything', i can say that my second problem with the kalam cosmological argument has been, in a way, dissolved.

so, for the continuation of the discussion, how abt sharing your thoughts on my first problem with it, which is basically that it assumes the universe to be a regular 'thing', considering the fact that the universe is essentially the universal set of all things, which doesn't really put it in the same category as any other thing, not even other subsets, which are sets of other things. so my argument is that although the premise which states that anything which comes into existence has a cause, could be true, you aren't justified to apply that to the universe itself, since the kalam argument when logically broken down works only on things within the universe, and not the universe itself.

[serene birch]

The most dangerous person in the world is the one who protects his own children at the expense of his life but makes others' children fight and kill.

wait a second all state administrators

[ruby frigate]

How's that possible.

[ruby frigate]

Maybe in a parallel universe.

[serene birch]

Our universe is already a parallel universe of another parallel universe.

[ruby frigate]

LOL.

[serene birch]

Unlimited IQ syndrome, sorry.

[ruby frigate]

It's okay.

[toxic jay]

did anyone try to join the voice channel ?

[craggy sphinx]

Why do I need to know this? This is useless information.

[serene birch]

You don't need it anyway, what makes you think you need?

useless information? lol

[craggy sphinx]

You say that everything has a causality connection, but you are not able to explain what happened before the inflationary period

[craggy sphinx]

yes

[serene birch]

Egocentrism

[craggy sphinx]

Where can you use it?

[craggy sphinx]

🤦

[boreal forum]

Hi guys !

[craggy sphinx]

I'll pretend you didn't write that

[craggy sphinx]

hello

[silent cloak]

[serene birch]

You are running a market but you are learning geometry, what will it do for you, forget about learning.

But not everyone runs a grocery store.

😉

[craggy sphinx]

What does the market have to do with it? You change the subject.

We are talking about cosmogony

[serene birch]

just comogony?

[craggy sphinx]

This is not an organic example

[violet dragon]

r u saying i support the kalam argument?

[serene birch]

Most scientists are thinking day and night about what you call useless information.

As I stated, you do not need this (you declared it yourself), so there is no point in our conversation.

[craggy sphinx]

I don't give a damn about his arguments.

I said that what you wrote contradicts your own predicate

[craggy sphinx]

Where can you use it?

[violet dragon]

wat did i write

[craggy sphinx]

Can you answer my simple question?

[craggy sphinx]

before and after the inflationary period

[serene birch]

In other words, since reaching the speed of light means changing our form to photons, we should not worry about it and produce parameters close to it.

[craggy sphinx]

Changing the shape of what?

[violet dragon]

i don't think this implies that i believe in a ubiquitous causality relation

but that's besides the point

[serene birch]

Converting any form into photons means exposing it to a lot of heat and energy.

[violet dragon]

let's get back to the original discussion

maybe after you finish your discussion with the syther guy

[craggy sphinx]

What form are you talking about? At what level does this happen?

[craggy sphinx]

So you don't admit it?

I didn't talk about the belief of this connection

[serene birch]

It's not something that can be explained in 2 minutes; you need to know a long way about physics, biology and beyond.

[craggy sphinx]

I think you should clarify what forms you are talking about

[serene birch]

and it was useless information, you can skip it anyway.

[serene birch]

LIGHT FORM WE ARE ALREADY TALKING ABOUT

[craggy sphinx]

A what?

And you're talking to me about physics?

[serene birch]

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry_Textbook_Maps/Supplemental_Modules_(Physical_and_Theoretical_Chemistry)/Quantum_Mechanics/02._Fundamental_Concepts_of_Quantum_Mechanics/Photons#:~:text=A photon is a tiny,at the speed of light.

If there is no light, there is no life...

[craggy sphinx]

The package sounds strange

If its energy is not divisible and it does not have rest mass, then it must be moving at an infinite speed.

But that's not happening

[craggy sphinx]

no

[serene birch]

explain

[craggy sphinx]

You speak in a general sense, which excludes alternative variants of this manifestation.

You assert that there are changes in forms, but at the same time, you are not able to explain it.

[serene birch]

If you expose a metal to high temperatures, some of its components will change to photon form.

But what I'm wondering is "If there is no light, there is no life...
"You said no to my thesis, explain that.

Actually, this is not a thesis but a definite information. Light equals energy here. Because light is already energy.

[craggy sphinx]

not the shape of a photon. You're separating the transformations of the metal at the molecular and quantum level, from the photon itself, which carries the energy.

[craggy sphinx]

It's silly to use in a holistic sense.

[serene birch]

I'm out of this conversation sorry.

[craggy sphinx]

I can say that when the lights are off, but i can see the light all the time, although this is not the case with the sublimated energies themselves
I can represent light, even though it has no practical use. But how do you know that's the case?

[serene birch]

"not the shape of a photon" 🤣

[craggy sphinx]

ok, explain the change that occurs inside the photon.

[serene birch]

google it brother, I don't have time sorry and it was useless information you don't need

[craggy sphinx]

Well, yes, yes

Talk about changes in forms at the macro level, while ignoring the micro

[craggy sphinx]

That wasn't cultural on your part. You go off topic without trying to explain what you've written.

"not in a position to do so"

[violet dragon]

now

i believe that causality is valid within the confines of the universe

so anything before inflation or the cosmological singularity is irrelevant

[serene birch]

According to the theory of relativity, specifically Einstein's Special Theory of Relativity, the speed of light in a vacuum, denoted by 'c,' is considered the ultimate speed limit for any object with mass. This speed is approximately 299,792 kilometers per second (about 186,282 miles per second). According to this theory, as an object with mass approaches the speed of light, its relativistic mass increases, and the amount of energy required to continue accelerating it also increases.

However, it's important to note that the concept of an object with mass reaching the speed of light is not practically achievable within the framework of our current understanding of physics. As an object with mass approaches the speed of light, the energy required to accelerate it further becomes infinite, making it impossible to reach or exceed the speed of light.

[violet dragon]

and i've learnt from yesterday's discussion that the unobservable or the rest of the universe is different from whatever it was that existed before the singularity

i think this signals the beginning of a discussion on the kalam

[craggy sphinx]

Why do I need it? Why did you walk away from my previous question?

[serene birch]

Why do i need to spend time to explain you?

Especially without even understanding the beginning of the topic.

[craggy sphinx]

Why did you start a thread if you couldn't sustain it?

[serene birch]

I didn't start thread. This is a definite opinion.

I told an anecdote.

And you declared it is useless information. Okay.!

[craggy sphinx]

You've stated this before, I've started to break down what you've written.

[serene birch]

Now I dont wanna be rude brother but I have really important things to do.

[craggy sphinx]

But as it turns out, you can't explain what you've written

[serene birch]

stop replying to my text, please.

[craggy sphinx]

Why can't I do this?

[serene birch]

Because of notification sound.

[craggy sphinx]

That's not the point.

Then why did you continue the topic with me if you are not able to explain?

[craggy sphinx]

and? I also have sounds, should I leave the server because of this?

[craggy sphinx]

If the photon does not have rest mass (except when it enters the higgs field), then it must move at infinite speed.

But that's not happening

[craggy sphinx]

If you're talking about faith as cause of effects, why doesn't it matter what happened before that ?

[craggy sphinx]

We don't know this if we talk about what happened before the inflationary period

[violet dragon]

because what happened or might have happened before that could have no purview on the universe

since we define the universe to have begun at that point

furthermore, the definition of the universe of encapsulating anything in the material world suggests that it is meaningless to discern what happened then

[craggy sphinx]

yes, I think the key word here is "define"

After all, you said that we do not know what it was like before this period, therefore it is wrong to assert the difference between these two points

[violet dragon]

which also means that any proposals regarding the pre-inflationary period are speculations and can be nothing more

[craggy sphinx]

I don't think it doesn't make sense.
If we talk about two basis, then it is already a reason for research

[craggy sphinx]

why?

[violet dragon]

how exactly would one go about doing research on this?

[craggy sphinx]

I think it's silly to assert one while ignoring its preceding

[craggy sphinx]

Study and Development of Cosmogonies

[ruby frigate]

Hola guys.

[craggy sphinx]

That's enough to get close to this unit

[violet dragon]

i suggest here that no effort in trying to understand the 'outside' of the universe can come to fruition

[craggy sphinx]

How do you know?

[violet dragon]

damn i completey forgot that google had the answer to the biggest cosmological question in existence lol

[violet dragon]

because there is no conceivable means of even trying to do so. i mean, literally everything we interact with in reality is within the universe

so there is no real reason to assume that it is possible

also due to the restrictions of the universe in the form of the various constants

[craggy sphinx]

Let's leave reality for later. We'll discuss that later

So you're arguing that it's pointless to study and try to get close to the values before this period. Why, then, are scientists actively developing one area of astronymy?

Is it possible to assert the meaninglessness of this moment and the connection to the present universe if you cannot explain how it behaved before?

[craggy sphinx]

A few hundred years ago, it was thought that the universe was 500 million

Now we claim that it is 13 billion

Was there any point in researching it then?

[violet dragon]

it wouldn't be right to assert that it would be meaningless to try to understand the present universe, since definite observations can be made IN the universe, and causality is well understood

and causality isn't completely understood since there are still a myriad of mysteries to the universe we live in

[violet dragon]

ofc not

science involves trial and error, and it's not something to be ashamed of

as long as reasonable observations can be made

[craggy sphinx]

"The connection is clear." You're literally contradicting yourself, bro

You talk about the meaninglessness of this moment, even though you try to prove that the cause and effect is clear

[craggy sphinx]

I didn't say it was wrong or right

[violet dragon]

i talk against the meaningless of this moment

[craggy sphinx]

sorry, but I think it's silly to claim.

[violet dragon]

why

[lavish finch]

Yeah, why?

[craggy sphinx]

I've explained why

[violet dragon]

well put it succinctly again

[craggy sphinx]

I've also given a simple example to make it clearer

[craggy sphinx]

You assert the meaninglessness of the moment before, but at the same time you try to establish a cause-and-effect relationship.

You've also said that you don't know what happened before the inflationary period, but you're again trying to prove that it's meaningless.

Where's the connection?

[violet dragon]

'before' what

[craggy sphinx]

yes , before

[violet dragon]

yea like before wat

[craggy sphinx]

before the inflationary period

[violet dragon]

ok lemme clarify what i mean by meaningless

[thorny steeple]

thanks

[thorny steeple]

cool

[violet dragon]

i refer to the meaninglessness of the effort to understand or infer anything about that period, since the knowledge and evidence we've gained so far suggest that science and reason break down before that point

[thorny steeple]

got it

[violet dragon]

not meaningless as in having no innate point

[craggy sphinx]

Yes, I understood that from the beginning

but you are trying to ASSERT the meaninglessness of this period, even though you do not know how long we will investigate it....

[violet dragon]

notice how both of us use the word 'period' to refer to that concept

do you think time existed before inflation?

[craggy sphinx]

I think that's not exactly what I said.

You're asserting the cause of the effects

[lavish finch]

As you've said, meaning breaks down outside of that system.

[violet dragon]

we are talking about the origin of the universe, not the underlying cause of its existence

[craggy sphinx]

At the same time, you are not able to explain what happened before

[violet dragon]

rn at least

[lavish finch]

So it makes no sense to talk of time existing before it.

[violet dragon]

so basically, you believe that in the future, maybe we will gain better insight or even hard knowledge on the pre-inflationary period?

[craggy sphinx]

At the same time, it is wrong to assert the cause of effects if you are not able to explain this

[violet dragon]

well yes, and the claim that the cause of all these effects is God is what i'm really against

[craggy sphinx]

I don't believe, I separate the concepts of "believe" and "assume"

Again, I will try to summarize what I have written.

You assert the meaninglessness of period before, but at the same time you try to establish a cause-and-effect relationship.

I don't think it's right to assert what is constant now.

[craggy sphinx]

What does God have to do with it?

[violet dragon]

so u assume it, and that is your position in this discussion?

[violet dragon]

but we live in the 'now', and i think it is pretty reasonable to make claims about something you have real experience with, and actual observations on

[violet dragon]

i don't hate god or anything. im just against that conclusion and am hoping to get some more clarity on that perspective

[violet dragon]

and i believe that this has a temporal limit

and am open to future discoveries and breakthroughs

[craggy sphinx]

I'm not saying it's right or wrong.

If you are talking about the present time, then you should limit yourself to "cause and effect"

To assert this without understanding the very principle of the agency is a bit silly.

[craggy sphinx]

np

But you can't confirm that either

Do you understand the meaning of the word "assert "?

And cause and effect?

[violet dragon]

wdym 'agency' here?

[thorny steeple]

break it down for me please

[lavish finch]

I also don't understand the use of agency here.

[violet dragon]

obvsly i can't. this discussion isn't really going to result in anything conclusive

[craggy sphinx]

This is the principle with which the cause of effects is concerned.

I used it as a term

to simplify the expression