🧠｜serious-chat

[lavish finch]

Why do you think that they’re different?

[thorny steeple]

No they make me to do it

[lavish finch]

They made you do what?

[thorny steeple]

Ask her first

[lavish finch]

Who?

[thorny steeple]

To told the truth

[thorny steeple]

@outer rain

[lavish finch]

I’m talking to you right now

[thorny steeple]

She is started it

Look

@lavish finch

[lavish finch]

I am looking

[thorny steeple]

So?

[lavish finch]

So I’m wondering if you took that comment just personally.

[thorny steeple]

I don't take it

I didn't take it personally

[lavish finch]

You felt forced to reply

[crude elbow]

Ayoo chill

[thorny steeple]

Im okey

[thorny steeple]

Say this for yourself

[lavish finch]

Its a question for everyone. Do you like it when people tell you the truth.

[thorny steeple]

It's not truth

[lavish finch]

You’d like me to ask a different question?

[thorny steeple]

Im waiting

[lavish finch]

Or you don’t believe that anyone ever told you the truth.

[half mulch]

yes

[thorny steeple]

I believe

[crude elbow]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[lavish finch]

Try using words here

This is an English group after all

[crude elbow]

Please calm down or we will have to take drastic measures.

[lavish finch]

do you have a mind read that I’m not calm

(I can barely keep my eyes open)

[mighty stratus]

I don't know what is going here. but i hope everything is going well

[crude elbow]

same bro

[mighty stratus]

then, let's end it up.

[crude elbow]

I'm going to report both of these frauds

Hopefully they get kicked

[thorny steeple]

Im ? Why i was hoping to stop

[thorny steeple]

Me too

😦

I believe hard truths make people more mature,

[thorny steeple]

Yeah

[craggy sphinx]

eh,I've been tired lately. I don't know what I want to do..

Hello everyone

[serene veldt]

sleeping is the best choice to do when ya felt tired

[craggy sphinx]

sleep when I'm tired? even if it's not night?

[thorny steeple]

what've you been doing in the past couple of days?

[serene veldt]

ofc who say you can only sleep when its night?

[thorny steeple]

I honestly don't agree, sleeping during night is far more comfortable and healthier.

also sleeping during the day sometimes causes discomfort and back pain, at least for me.

[serene veldt]

Hmm you got the ppoint

[craggy sphinx]

I won’t lie or exaggerate my capabilities, I don’t see the point in that.

Lately, I've been honing my English skills, learning the pitfalls. I've also been studying programming.

[serene veldt]

For me,sleeping is like reprogramming my brain so ye .

[craggy sphinx]

ye, right 😅

bro

Tell me @thorny steeple

[thorny steeple]

have you been working hard or pushing yourself while learning programming or English?

[craggy sphinx]

why did you choose Islam as a religion? what did you find in him? Do you feel happy in this religion?

[craggy sphinx]

well, maybe

[thorny steeple]

if so, there is a good chance you're in a state of burnout, the only treatment to that is by taking a break, just give yourself sometime away from everything that causes you stress.

[craggy sphinx]

yes , maybe, thanks

[thorny steeple]

get comfortable for sometime, it's similar to when a battery completely runs out, it needs to recharge, that's what you also would need to do.

[thorny steeple]

simple, I couldn't find truth or consistency in any other religion, and I was convinced that there must be a creator, it's simply impossible that there is none.

[craggy sphinx]

sequences?

can you give more details please?

[oak spire]

🇵🇸

[sour marlin]

U r not jealous of someone that u love?
Would u let ur wife to interact with stranger men?

[fresh iron]

hi bors

hi bros

[oak spire]

hi

[thorny steeple]

XD I don't have wife

[sour marlin]

I am just giving some examples

I didn't want to offend anyone

I just said Muslim boys are jealous and I meant they care a lot

[thorny steeple]

You should say it first._.

Your sentence make us to attack them

[sour marlin]

Well, u didn't get me

[thorny steeple]

Please think before you talk

[fresh iron]

nice to meet you

everybody

[oak spire]

🇵🇸

[sour marlin]

I earlier said that jealous ppl are loyal

[thorny steeple]

I didn't mean this btw thanks to tell me

[terse vault]

hello guys

[open ferry]

hi

[thorny steeple]

@terse vault hi

[fresh iron]

I will tell you puzzle about English. What word in the English language has three consecutive double letters?

[thorny steeple]

I've been born in a Muslim family, but like any other overthinker, I doubted everything, including my existence and my religion, and I actually became an atheist for sometime as well, but later figured out that this can't be true, there must be a first cause for this universe to exist, since we know for a fact that it had a beginning, this creator must not be created or else who created his creator? and so on and so forth, this is called an infinite regression, and it's an impossibility, it's an endless series of dependent events, but infinity doesn't really have a beginning, and therefore, my existence proves the falsehood of this assumption, so I became an agnostic atheist, which means I believe in a creator, but I haven't find the true religion, all of these things happened to me while I was in another discord server actually, where I was debating with people from other religions, and this helped me investigate which religion is more likely to be the correct one, and after about 5 months of searching, I went back to point 0, Islam, but this time with certainty that I am on the truth.

[open ferry]

emm idk

[sour marlin]

Thanks for what?

Nvm I prefer to don't discuss it anymore

[thorny steeple]

Okey

[craggy sphinx]

My parents are also Muslims, but I was wondering why they think Islam is the true religion?

I wrote in this chat a long time ago that I practice the school of Pyrrhonism. I began to have doubts. I can't be 100% sure of anything. I want to find the truth, I want to have one single truth, but...

Why do I think I can't be 100% sure?

We humans are subjective beings. we may be wrong.

I will give you arguments

[thorny steeple]

having doubts is nothing wrong, it just means that you have questions that are not being answered, I recommend you study more about Islam, I believe you'll find all your answers there Inshallah.

[craggy sphinx]

1. Dissent – The uncertainty demonstrated by the differences of opinions among philosophers and people in general.

2. Progress ad infinitum – All proof rests on matters themselves in need of proof, and so on to infinity, i.e., the regress argument.

3. Relation – All things are changed as their relations become changed, or, as we look upon them from different points of view.

4. Assumption – The truth asserted is based on an unsupported assumption.

5. Circularity – The truth asserted involves a circularity of proofs.

[craggy sphinx]

yes, it's possible

I hope I can be more strong in religion

[thorny steeple]

that's why you need to rely on evidence not just feelings and experiences of others, they may look convincing, as the case with many Christian apologists, but they are still based on subjective experiences.

[thorny steeple]

Philosophy is one big subjective field bro. 😂

yeah, sure you can find some truth in the philosophical methods, but not everything is to be taken as a fact.

I advise you to try to be objective as much as possible when searching for the answers.

luckily, you'll find Islam the most objective religion there is, by simply learning about the studies of Hadith and how the Quran was preserved throughout the years..

[craggy sphinx]

no, I'm not saying I believe it. This was an example of how we humans can make mistakes.

and this means that we cannot be 100% sure of anything.

[fresh iron]

Hi, where are you from?

[thorny steeple]

If America is violent in Vietnam, it is for “those poor people.” No one is violent for himself; no one ever has been. We are always violent to help someone. Even if I kill you it is for your own good, it is to help you. And even if you are killed, even if I kill you, just look at my compassion. Even for your own good I can kill you. So go on condemning the whole world. When India attacked Goa, when India went to war with China, Bertrand Russell criticized Nehru, saying, “Where is your nonviolence now? You are all Gandhians. Where is your nonviolence now?” Nehru replied by banning Bertrand Russell’s book in India. The book Russell wrote was banned. This is our nonviolent mind. This was a good discussion. The book should have been distributed free, because he argued beautifully. He said, “You are a violent people. Your nonviolence was just political. Your Gandhi was not a sage, he was just a diplomatic mind. And you all talk about nonviolence, but when the moment comes you become violent. When others are fighting, you stand on your high altar and you condemn the whole world as violent.” With individuals, with societies, with cultures, with nations, this happens. If you have ideals, you need not transform yourself. You can always hope to be transformed in the future by the ideals themselves, and you can condemn others very easily. Tantra says to remain with yourself. Whatsoever you are, accept it. Do not condemn yourself, do not condemn others. Condemnation is futile, energies are not changed by it.

[thorny steeple]

you can watch the debate between Lawrence Krauss and Hamza Tzortzis, it's a really good debate.

[craggy sphinx]

I have considered a lot of religion, I know what Christianity is. I don't like what this religion says.

People who follow this religion, please, I'm not saying it's a bad religion.

[thorny steeple]

my experience with Christianity is that it's more of an emotional religion.

[craggy sphinx]

this is just my opinion

[craggy sphinx]

The idea of ​​3 gods seems stupid to me.

[thorny steeple]

it is completely illogical.

[craggy sphinx]

And in the Bible, Jesus himself did not claim to be GOD.

[ornate siren]

RELIGION
-n.

A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable.

"What is your religion my son?" inquired the Archbishop of Rheims.

"Pardon, monseigneur," replied Rochebriant; "I am ashamed of it."

"Then why do you not become an atheist?"

"Impossible! I should be ashamed of atheism."

"In that case, monsieur, you should join the Protestants."

[craggy sphinx]

But this is the son of God, oh my God..

[bright cloud]

islamm is the right religion

[thorny steeple]

have a look at John 17:3.

[craggy sphinx]

hello bro

[thorny steeple]

Jesus said outright that the father was the true God.

[thorny steeple]

If you ask a saint, he will say that anger is bad, sex is bad, greed is bad. If you ask Gurdjieff, he will say that negativity is bad, that whatsoever emotion is negative is bad and to be positive is good. If you ask Jainas, Buddhists, Hindus, Christians or Mohammedans, they may differ in their definition of good and bad – but they have definitions. They call certain things bad and certain things good. So to define purity is not difficult for them. Whatsoever they take as good is pure, whatsoever they take as bad is impure. But for Tantra it is a deep problem. Tantra makes no superficial division between good and bad. Then what is purity? Tantra says that to divide is impure and to live in non-division is purity. So for Tantra purity
means innocence – undifferentiated innocence.

[craggy sphinx]

father?

[thorny steeple]

A child is there; you call him pure. He gets angry, he has greed, so why do you call him pure? What is pure in childhood? Innocence! There is no division in the mind of a child. The child is unaware of any division into
what is good and what is bad. That unawareness is the innocence. Even if he gets angry, he has no mind to be angry, it is a pure and simple act. It happens, and when anger goes, it goes. Nothing is left behind. The child is again the same, as if the anger has never been there. The purity is not touched; the purity is the same. So a child is pure because there is no mind. The more mind grows, the more the child will become impure. Then anger will be there as a considered thing, not spontaneously. Then sometimes the child will suppress the anger – if the situation does not permit it. And when anger becomes suppressed, then sometimes it will be transferred onto another situation instead. When there is really no need to be angry he will get angry, because the suppressed anger will need some outlet. Then everything will become impure because the mind has come in.

[thorny steeple]

in Christianity you have three Persons in one God, the father, the son, and the holy spirit, in that verse you'll find Jesus explicitly says that the father is the only true God.

and therefore it disproves the whole idea of the trinity.

[craggy sphinx]

does god need children?

Does God really need anything?

[thorny steeple]

The child will one day become aware of his body and will feel the nakedness. He will try to hide, he will become guilty, and he will feel shame. He will come to be aware. So his innocence is an innocence of ignorance. Knowledge will destroy it. That is the meaning of the biblical story of Adam and Eve being expelled from the garden of Eden. They were naked like children. They were not aware of the body; they were not aware of anger, greed, lust, sex or anything. They were unaware. They were like children, innocent. But God had forbidden them to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge. The tree of knowledge was forbidden but they ate, because anything forbidden becomes inviting. Anything forbidden becomes attractive! They were living in a big garden with an infinite number of trees, but the tree of knowledge became the most important and significant because it was forbidden. Really, this forbidden-ness became the attraction, the invitation. They were as if magnetized, hypnotized by the tree. They couldn’t escape it, they had to eat. But this story is beautiful because the tree is named the tree of knowledge. The moment they ate the fruit of knowledge they became noninnocent. They became aware; they came to realize that they were naked. Immediately, Eve tried to hide her body. With awareness of the body they became aware of everything – anger, lust, greed, everything. They became adult, so they were expelled from the garden. So in the Bible knowledge is sin. They were thrown out of the garden, they were punished, because of knowledge. Unless they become again like children – innocent, not-knowing – they cannot enter the garden. They can enter the kingdom of God again only if they fulfill this condition of becoming innocent again.

[thorny steeple]

he doesn't, but according to some Christian apologists, you just can't question what God does or doesn't, as he's capable of doing anything and everything.

[thorny steeple]

everything needs God, not the other way around, that's just about it.

[craggy sphinx]

but what is God in definitions? God is an entity that does not need anything. he is self-sufficient.

[craggy sphinx]

In philosophy there is a principle called the principle of "agency"

[thorny steeple]

god is the greatest lie created by man to hide his true nature.

[craggy sphinx]

this is expressed in cause and effect. each object needs a connection with the previous one.

[craggy sphinx]

Why do you think so?

[thorny steeple]

how do you explain your existence? the multiverse? 😂

[thorny steeple]

our minds have created certain images and attributes of god, god is a noun. we have made our god like our minds. There is a higher entity but it has nothing to do with our explanation of it.

[thorny steeple]

creation itself is capable of doing it, there is no need to come up with names and attributes

[craggy sphinx]

I don't think so.
if we had at least a particle of God in us, and God is the highest definition, then people would not behave so cruelly towards each other

[thorny steeple]

that's the one single worst argument I've ever heard for atheism, it's simply untrue, the creation is incapable of creating itself, your argument destroys the three laws of logic.

[thorny steeple]

what we think is from our violent minds and mind's nature is violent. so by creating order, we create disorder. by trying to explain we make it complex.

that's one reason I reverted to Islam, you can't find logic elsewhere.

[thorny steeple]

sorry I am not wise like you 🙏

[craggy sphinx]

You're off topic now.

[thorny steeple]

alright then. 🤷

[thorny steeple]

logic and god is a contradiction

[craggy sphinx]

You talk about the essential attributes of God, and now you write about the fact that people are stupid and cruel of their own free will.

where is the connection?

[thorny steeple]

logic is politics, godliness is love

[craggy sphinx]

how do you know what it is?

[thorny steeple]

that's an opinion, @craggy sphinx , here is an example of subectivity in atheism, for one to claim something as a fact, one should provide some kind of proof or evidence.

[craggy sphinx]

based on what?

[thorny steeple]

take my word for it

[craggy sphinx]

oh, well, yes,

[thorny steeple]

proof: believe me bro. 😂

[thorny steeple]

theists, atheists and agnostics are all in the same boat

[craggy sphinx]

Friends, let's not be harsh on each other. Please, let's put the rhetoric aside.

I look forward to communication

Please

[thorny steeple]

if i will lie you will trust me, if I will tell the truth you will beat me.

[craggy sphinx]

not really, I'm ready to listen to you.

[thorny steeple]

the boat of life? yeah they are.

other than that, not really.

[craggy sphinx]

but I will answer and ask questions.

[thorny steeple]

if you want to break your shell i can give you instruments but you will have to introspect and walk your own path.

they believe in an entirely different things, or you could say atheism is essentially the lack of belief.

[thorny steeple]

they believe but they do not know the truth

hence they are all the same

[craggy sphinx]

this is agnosticism

[thorny steeple]

unless someone is on a quest to find the truth by himself

not taking Jesus's or prophet's word for it

[thorny steeple]

that's so rhetorical.

[craggy sphinx]

I have to go, I'm sorry if I offended anyone, I didn't mean to

Good luck!

[thorny steeple]

search about the Egyptian libraries Christians and Mohammedians burnt.

[thorny steeple]

have a nice day!

[thorny steeple]

see, now you fell into a paradox, how do you know what's the truth to judge that they don't know the truth?

They have different ideas

[thorny steeple]

am I or is it your mind playing tricks with you?

[thorny steeple]

i can give you methods you try and you will know the truth

truth can be known by action

[thorny steeple]

it's you my friend. 😁

[thorny steeple]

precisely

[thorny steeple]

go ahead.

you can also send it to me in DMs, 'cause I have to make the Quiz for my JavaScript course, so I gotta go.

[thorny steeple]

Try not to get attached with ideas and beliefs too much, Accept yourself. But then you will look like an animal. You will not look like a man because your concept of man is in your ideals. That is why we go on teaching others not to be like animals, and everyone is an animal. What can you do? You are an animal. Accept your animality. And the moment you accept your animality, you have done the first thing to go beyond animals – because no animal knows that it is an animal, only man can know. That is going beyond. You cannot go beyond by denying. Accept! When everything is accepted, suddenly you will feel that you have transcended. Who is accepting? Who accepts the whole? That which accepts has gone beyond. If you reject, you remain on the same plane. If you accept, you go beyond. Acceptance is transcendence. And if you accept yourself totally, suddenly you are thrown to your center. Then you cannot move anywhere. You cannot move from your suchness, from your nature, so you are thrown to your center.

The non-acceptance of nature creates the ego, the non-acceptance of your suchness – your tathata, that which you are. If you accept it, the ego will not be there. If you do not accept it, if you reject it, if you create ideals against it, there will be ego. Ideals are the stuff the ego is made of.

A greedy man is always attracted by another greed. If you tell him and convince him that his greed is the cause of his misery, and that if he leaves greed he will attain a blissful state, he may try – because now you are not really against his greed. You are giving his greed new pastures. He can move into new dimensions of greed.

If your mind is one of greed, how can you be non-greedy? The greedy mind will remain greedy. Whatsoever is done by it to go beyond greed is not going to help. Of course, we can create new greeds. Ask a greedy
mind, “What are you doing just accumulating wealth? You will die and you cannot take your wealth with you.” This is the logic of the so-called religious preachers – that you cannot take your wealth with you. But if someone could take it, then the whole logic would fail. The greedy man feels the logic, of course. He asks, “How can I take wealth with me?” But he really wants to take it. That is why the priest becomes influential. He shows him that it is nonsense to accumulate things which cannot be taken beyond death. He says, “I will teach you how to accumulate things which can be taken. Virtue can be taken, punya – good deeds – can be taken, goodness can be taken, but not wealth. So donate the wealth.”

But this is an appeal to his greed. This is telling him, “Now we will give you better things which can be carried beyond death.” The appeal obtains results. The greedy man feels, “You are right. Death is there and nothing can be done about it, so I must do something which can be carried beyond. I must create some kind of bank balance in the other world also. The world, this bank balance, cannot be with me forever.” He goes on talking in these terms. Go through the scriptures… they appeal to your greed. They say, “What are you doing wasting your time in momentary pleasures?” The emphasis is on “momentary.” So find some eternal pleasures; then it is okay. They are not against pleasures, they are just against their being momentary. Look at the greed!

Sometimes it happens that you may find a non-greedy man who is enjoying momentary pleasures, but you cannot find among your saints a man who is not asking, demanding for eternal pleasures. The greed in them is even more. You can find a non-greedy man among ordinary men, but you cannot find a non-greedy man among your so-called saints. They also want pleasures, but they are more greedy than you. You are satisfied with momentary pleasures and they are not. Their greed is bigger. Their greed can only be satisfied with eternal pleasures. Infinite greed asks for infinite pleasures – remember this. A finite greed is satisfied with finite pleasure. They will ask you, “What are you doing loving a woman? She is nothing but bones and blood. Look deep into the woman you love. What is she?” They are not against the woman, they are against the bones, against the blood, against the body. But if a woman is of gold, then it is okay. They are asking for women of gold.

One Christian missionary was with me a few days ago and he said, “God created the world.” So I asked him, “Who created sin?” He said, “The devil.” Then I asked him, “Who created the devil?” Then he was at a loss. He said, “Of course, God created the devil.” The devil creates sin and God creates the devil. Then who is the real sinner – the devil or God? But the dualist conception always leads to such absurdities. For Tantra God and the devil are not two. Really, for Tantra there is nothing that can be called “devil,” everything is divine, everything is holy. And this seems to be the right standpoint, the deepest. If anything is unholy in this world, from where does it come and how can it be?

[thorny steeple]

I sent it, let me know if it appeals to your logic.

[thorny steeple]

if god can create himself and again god is a man-made concept because the things we are not capable of justifying we say god did it but yeah god=creation and it does not care about how much water you waste or chaos you cause. Human beings have just been here for a very short time, the creation was always there and it did not need our logic or some so called external force god to define what it is.

Your mind is an accumulation of data and unless you transcend it, you won't have a taste of the present moment, eternity, godliness, and bliss.

Everything is within you, do not look for it outside, turn inwards.

You cannot know the universe if you only study one planet.

And you are life, the source, the ultimate. Consciousness.

Look within and you shall find all the answers.

You are not the body, you are not the mind, you are life itself.

[humble lion]

What are u trying to teach brother

I don't get ur point

[thorny steeple]

That a person who follows a religion can never be religious.

He will never get to know the truth.

[humble lion]

What realm are you from?

[thorny steeple]

Consciousness

Enlightenment and beliefs do not go together.

[humble lion]

You seem to have a better, should i say guide, than religion. Care to share?

[thorny steeple]

Lao Tzu, The Buddha, Adi Shankarachaya, Mahavira

I do not like to look at things partially or create dichotomy

Life and nature knows no indecencies, mind does.

[humble lion]

What are these?

[thorny steeple]

People who had transcended the mind.

Hello, everyone

Mind if I join?

sure

[ornate siren]

As I said, religion, or the war, or the existence of God, isn't the only topic to talk about.

[thorny steeple]

welcome

[humble lion]

Would be honored

[thorny steeple]

Why, thank you

[thorny steeple]

The whole society runs on these 3.

[ornate siren]

Science.

[humble lion]

"Transcending the mind" how is it done

[ornate siren]

I abide by Bierce's definition of religion.

[thorny steeple]

intriguing but these days contaminated

[thorny steeple]

This, I believe, is not the main point of your argument, yet I wouldn't agree to this

[ornate siren]

Fault of Man

[thorny steeple]

always is

[ornate siren]

As is religion

[thorny steeple]

if we wipe out whole human race this place would become lovely

Depends on your perspective. What is lovely?

Humans are as part as abomination of nature

[craggy sphinx]

I like the idea that one must first realize that humans can be as cruel and savage as animals. If you are unaware of your cruel nature, you cannot control it.

However, I don't think acceptance is needed at all. I reject that I'm like any other animal. We don't need acceptance, we need control.

I don't think transcendence exists.

[thorny steeple]

It is because of the nature of your mind, you think but you do not know. And people dump garbage in our heads. "It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." – Mark Twain

[thorny steeple]

and nature will wipe them out

How can you be so sure of that?

[thorny steeple]

because destruction is the part of the process.

[craggy sphinx]

"You think, but you don't know" I don't think that's entirely true.

[thorny steeple]

life is transforming into death, child is becoming old, creation is bound to collapse.

[thorny steeple]

I don't agree with you. I believe a probability, though astronomically tiny, of humans reigning Earth (and, expectedly, other planets) forever still stands

[thorny steeple]

It is your mind talking not your consciousness. When mind will cease to be you will be at peace. That is mediation.

[thorny steeple]

Never agree with anyone, find your own truth. You are unique and no one will be there like you.

Your own uniqueness will liberate you.

That's also debatable, but I'm fond of your point of view

[thorny steeple]

it is because our arrogance deceives us.

we are but particles, nobody has conquered anything

[thorny steeple]

No, it's because anything can happen

you are renting a body which will decay and die

[thorny steeple]

true words seem paradoxical

what you think is not the truth, what is truth, you cannot perceive.

[craggy sphinx]

I don't think it's separated. There is a syzygy between these devices. you can't say it works like that because it provides for itself.

[thorny steeple]

truth is beyond five senses and six directions

and when you find it you will become the truth not a mind or an arrogant person trying to preach

[thorny steeple]

There is no truth a human can state is absolute

Be Jesus not a Christian

Be Buddha not a buddhist

[craggy sphinx]

no knowledge

[thorny steeple]

people who know the truth often become silent

[craggy sphinx]

you don't have any knowledge.

we have no knowledge.

[thorny steeple]

Often is not always

[thorny steeple]

yeah and knowing that is enough knowledge

Knowledge binds you, being conscious liberates you.

truth is subjective and it can change.

And it's quite contradictory that you claim your sayings to be true, when, according to you, no person knows the actual truth

[thorny steeple]

never said they are true, just saying they are instruments to know the truth

all words are product of the mind, you can not say they are true

but sure you can use them to get to the truth

[thorny steeple]

Well, if they are, then supposedly, they are true

and truth is silence

[craggy sphinx]

I like that this chat is signaling its manifestation again.

I'm glad

[thorny steeple]

Nice save there

that is why science never proved anything and neither did socrates

religion is for society, not for the people who are in a quest of finding the truth

it can sure help but if you stick to it you will not be liberated

if something binds you then you must drop it

you must put it down, like your body, someday you will have to leave it and be free and liberated.

use it but do not become the religion

you are not your religion you are life.

[craggy sphinx]

hi, you are beautiful as always.

[thorny steeple]

you can use your mind to get liberated from it but the perceiver is your consciousness

[thorny steeple]

Thankiouuuu Unceraaa ❤️

🥰

[craggy sphinx]

free yourself? this is not necessary.

[thorny steeple]

ego will enlighten you, lie will help you to find the truth, and love will liberate you from hatred.

[craggy sphinx]

it's more like eclecticism

[thorny steeple]

it is

we have no boundaries

life is limitless

[thorny steeple]

I see, here is the problem, I don't believe in evolution, it doesn't have a real base in true science and there is no enough evidence to support it's true, in fact, if you study epigenetics you'll understand that genes don't get generated out of nowhere, everything is fixed and the changes in one's DNA are governed by certain rules.

[thorny steeple]

Logical language is aggressive, argumentative, violent. If I use logical language I become aggressive upon your mind. I try to convince you, to convert you, to make a puppet of you. My argument is “right” and you are “wrong.” Logical language is egocentric: “I am right and you are wrong, so I must prove that I am right and you are wrong.” I am not concerned with you, I am concerned with my ego. My ego is always “right.” Love language is totally different. I am not concerned with my ego; I am concerned with you. I am not concerned to prove something, to strengthen my ego. I am concerned to help you. It is a compassion to help you to grow, to help you to transform, to help you to be reborn.

also, you write too much, try to be more concise for people to read what you write easily.

[thorny steeple]

leave it bro, someday Allah(creation) himself/itself will send you a messenger ♥️

[thorny steeple]

as Frank Turek and Norman Geisler say, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist (again), I already went through the world of atheism for a long time, but the problem is that it's not based on facts, and yes, I talk about atheism as an idology or belief, rather than the lack of belief.

otherwise, please provide real evidence.

[thorny steeple]

right now your receptivity is not on its peak bro, even if i will try to communicate with you, we will fall into a contradiction.

someday the time will come

[thorny steeple]

alright, I just wanted to prove to you that atheism is not factual, it's more of an absolute denial of any fact.

Man and woman are not only physically different, they are psychologically different. Sex is not only a difference in the body; it is a difference in psychologies also. A feminine mind means receptivity – total receptivity, surrender, love. A disciple needs a feminine psychology; otherwise he will not be able to learn. You can ask, but if you are not open then you cannot be answered. You can ask a question and still remain closed. Then the answer cannot penetrate you. Your doors are closed; you are dead. You are not open. A feminine receptivity means a womb-like receptivity in the inner depth, so that you can receive. And not only that – much more is implied. A woman is not only receiving something, the moment she receives it, it becomes a part of her body. A child is received. A woman conceives; the moment there is conception, the child has become part of the feminine body. It is not alien, it is not foreign. It has been absorbed. Now the child will live not as something added to the mother, but just as a part, just as the mother. And the child is not only received: the feminine body becomes creative; the child begins to grow.

[craggy sphinx]

Logic does not imply either negative or positive.

Logic is a self-sufficient, self-supporting form. She doesn't say it's bad or it's good.

also logic does not include arguments. she sees them as the structure of the possible.

[thorny steeple]

Oh okay, I get your perspective.

but do not worry I am not an atheist 😂

[thorny steeple]

I get it, you made yourself clear.

[craggy sphinx]

by any method, including deductive and inductive approaches to the object of identification, this does not explain its true form. it's just a representation(approximately)

[craggy sphinx]

this is just my opinion. you can criticize it, I will be glad if you share your ideas.

[thorny steeple]

I am not going to, he is not receptive right now.

someday he will find it himself.

[craggy sphinx]

ok , but know that I don't think criticism is a bad thing.

criticism, I think, is the engine of progress.

[thorny steeple]

I never criticize, I just transform.

[thorny steeple]

it definitely is

the moment you accept you do not know, you can now actually find the truth

[craggy sphinx]

As I said earlier, I don't know anything. I have no knowledge.

[thorny steeple]

just say yes to what he says and move on 😂

“Life is short, break the rules. Forgive quickly, kiss slowly. Love truly. Laugh uncontrollably and never regret anything that makes you smile.” – Mark Twain

[thorny steeple]

its okay, neither do I

stay innocent and curious like a child

[thorny steeple]

you sound very atheistic to be honest. 😂

[thorny steeple]

I love cops as much as I love criminals but I love the spectators too.

just life and being

[craggy sphinx]

advertising?

[thorny steeple]

<@&852814479569059840>

this link contains nudity, Alhamdulillah I have a blocker for such content.

[thorny steeple]

adam and eve were naked bro 😂

just kidding

[tough gull]

U opened it?

[lusty dagger]

@vernal quiver

[thorny steeple]

yes.

[lusty dagger]

Don't trust any links on discord!

[thorny steeple]

true

[tough gull]

Please don't click on such links. They may potentially hack you/scam you or contain malware

[thorny steeple]

yes, thank you very much for the advice.

[thorny steeple]

I see, thanks for the advice. 🤍

[ornate siren]

Yes, if by lovely you mean more hospitable.

[ornate siren]

Do not muddle up the concepts of objective and subjective truth, Johnny.

[ornate siren]

Why do you see logic as a woman?

[craggy sphinx]

because I love her

[ornate siren]

As I missed a lot, I'll just mention the Jungian concepts of the anima and the animus. The gist of evolutionary biology is that an organism will do whatever it can to spread its genes. Ways may be different, depending on the gender.

[thorny steeple]

?define ebidta

[cursive bobcat]

:x: That word could not be found in the dictionary.

[ornate siren]

You... need help.

[thorny steeple]

Help? Because, apparently, in his mothertongue logic is most likely feminine?

[ornate siren]

Not so in English.

[thorny steeple]

English is bland

[ornate siren]

No language is.

[thorny steeple]

That's your personal opinion

[ornate siren]

It should be so universally.

[thorny steeple]

Should doesn't mean it is

[ornate siren]

Maybe

[thorny steeple]

And it's also subjective

[thorny steeple]

All is maybe to you

[fading abyss]

one time i had ice cream

now my parents wont let me buy ice cream

its a serious issue

[craggy sphinx]

hello

[craggy sphinx]

shut up

[thorny steeple]

I kind of do

[craggy sphinx]

@ornate siren you have become arrogant lately, my friend.

[thorny steeple]

I am bad with explaining through words bro, please forgive me 😂

[thorny steeple]

but personally bro I judge everything is subjective, and would you say that the objective if it exists, is beyond the comprehensibility of the mind?

[thorny steeple]

oh I did not know that, thanks for sharing.

[fading abyss]

what???? this is a serious issue.

[thorny steeple]

😂

[thorny steeple]

😂

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/joker-why-so-serious-serious-gif-11972349

[thorny steeple]

he always was, you just noticed it today.

We are all oozing arrogance from every pore of our bodies.

sometimes knowingly sometimes unknowingly

Science has also become a product of arrogance, as has religion.

[lavish finch]

If you want, you can find arrogance wherever there are humans.

But that's not the same as saying all people are arrogant.

People are all kinds of things

[thorny steeple]

yeah @lavish finch ya should speak easier

that indeed cool has a good english level, but nevertheless will be better to use less arduous words in the casual conversations

[ornate siren]

Not arrogant, just facetious.

[ornate siren]

Everything humans know is subjective.

[fresh iron]

hi

hello bros.

nice to meet you

[thorny steeple]

https://tenor.com/view/loki-oh-i-like-this-smiling-gif-18734467

[thorny steeple]

I have noticed that a really egoless person is not humble at all. He is neither arrogant nor humble; he is simply himself. He doesn't know, and he doesn't care.

but again it is subjective

[thorny steeple]

yeah that is true, I am arrogant that is why I am seeing arrogance everywhere.

Thank you for enlightening me. I will not get into such conversations again. 🙏

[sour marlin]

I'm from earth WBU?

[thorny steeple]

hi i have just arrived in the Discord group.

who lives in Paris?

[distant pivot]

Hello everyone! I am new to the server, my goal is to learn advanced English

[sour marlin]

Good luck

[distant pivot]

@sour marlin hey! Thank you so much

[sour marlin]

U r welcome

[latent ledge]

U from Colombia??

[devout shale]

ok first rule you need to know, dont buy courses from Mr. @latent ledge

[latent ledge]

Mann lemme do my job come on 😂

[thorny steeple]

Me too I want to improve m'y English level

[devout shale]

@distant pivotalso dont accept tea from him, by no mean

[distant pivot]

@latent ledge si

[thorny steeple]

You do a cours Jason?

[distant pivot]

@devout shale oh jajaja why?

[devout shale]

@latent ledge

[latent ledge]

U gonna kill my business😢
I have kids to feed

[latent ledge]

Cool its one of my favourite countries Colombian ppl r so friendly

[distant pivot]

@latent ledge hey! Thank you so much, I'm new to the server, I'm exploring a little😊

[devout shale]

you better dont know

[devout shale]

[distant pivot]

@devout shale

Someone speaks Spanish

[devout shale]

poco

[latent ledge]

Yee welcome have fun here

[devout shale]

yo no lo hablo mucho pero puedo entendir

[latent ledge]

@devout shale

[devout shale]

yes

[latent ledge]

I missed u bro

[devout shale]

cute

[thorny steeple]

None of my cyberfriends are online omggg

Discord is coming to an end to meee

[zinc jewel]

what is this channel?

[livid hawk]

This is a serious channel about serious things.

[devout shale]

@sacred blade answer me

[crimson sun]

hey i know thhis is for the proof reading one but no's there so can i ask if someone is willing to proof read for me

[thorny steeple]

You weren´t interrupting

[ocean citrus]

what is serious chat??

explain...

[spark oak]

example ： word peace

[violet dragon]

basically a philosophy class with a dictionary

[thorny steeple]

Do not be idiot a the moment to write something

Basically

You should research idiot word meaning

Comes from greek or latin

[craggy sphinx]

hello my little geniuses

I'm so glad that this chat gives a sign of its manifestation again😊

[craggy sphinx]

wow, take it easy

[craggy sphinx]

Hello my friend😊

serious chat is a chat where you are free to create your ideas and share them. as soon as you take a step, your ideas will be criticized (in a good way)

Criticism carries a positive connotation. Because criticism allows you to identify weaknesses, improve and generate new ideas.

I call it the ‘engine of progress‘

[thorny steeple]

The word 'idiot' comes from the Greek ἰδιώτης idiṓtēs and was originally not a disrespectful, derogatory or insulting adjective.

Nor did it have any relation to the intelligence of the person he was referring to.

It was used to refer to someone average or a private citizen, as opposed to a scholar or someone who acted on behalf of the State or held public office.

But because the Greeks highly valued civic participation, recognizing that without it democracy collapsed, all citizens were expected to be interested in, and conversant with, public affairs. Oh sea, don't let them be idiots.

Remaining on the margins of public life was a sign of ignorance, lack of education, misinformation and abandonment of duty.

He who did not contribute to the debates, declared Pericles, the great statesman of Athens, was considered “not as lacking in ambition but as absolutely useless.”

[thorny steeple]

that's because i use that word but people missunderstand it

[craggy sphinx]

maybe, but I don't think you 100% understand how it works.

[thorny steeple]

How it works what ?

[craggy sphinx]

Everything in the world is functioning
this is manifested in their dynamics internally and externally.

[thorny steeple]

I see , yea i agree with you

In that

But i don't say that word with bad willing

It's a way to describe a diference between two things , serious things and chatings that fall in vanity .

As the importance existe , at the moment to chat there are much things to talk , you don't wanna talk about alcohol party in your father in law's house haha.

[craggy sphinx]

you are quite knowledgeable about this

[craggy sphinx]

😁

I have to go, thanks for listening to me

see you

[thorny steeple]

Okey have a nice day my friend

Let me tell you 1 thing more

Are you there?

😦

[ocean citrus]

The word "sorry" comes from the Old English word sāriġ, which means "grieved" or "sad". The root of the word means "suffering".
The word "sorry" can also mean:
"Grievous, mournful, painful"
"Abject, contemptible, paltry, worthless, shabby"
"Used for correcting yourself when you have said something wrong"

[sour marlin]

GTK
Hru btw?

[thorny steeple]

What did yoy say ?

Oh i see

I'm fine and you ? , how's it going ?

[thorny steeple]

Oh very good comment

I like your profile seems quite pretty

The best cat 😄 , btw do you know thouse words that have a similiar meaning ?

[thorny steeple]

For serious discussion!

[craggy sphinx]

yes?

[thorny steeple]

Yisus exist

He is the truth the way and life

He said : who belive in me will have eternal life .

Nobody comes to the father but through me

I hope you belive in him before your last day in the earth

The son of God : i know my herd , the hear my voce and come to me and i give them where eat and where drink .

[sour marlin]

Ok God had a son?

[thorny steeple]

Jhon 1:1 In the begining was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

[thorny steeple]

Yisus is his Word, his Son and his same image of the sustance of God, who see me see the father , who recive me recive the father because God showed himself through the person of his Son .

Yisus means = the savior in greek , was named emmanuel since his birth , and emmanuel means= God with us in hebrew

[stuck notch]

god bless you king

[thorny steeple]

Christ had to birth as a man to life the perfect life that men couldn't do, and to recive the justice of everyone who belive in his name and his person .

So that when he die on the cross and to resurrect at the 3th day overcoming the death and sin we may resurrect too in his second coming

Only God could do the work of salvation , only the divine person of the pefect son of God had to do it

To be tented by satand and overcome upon him without sin until arrive to the cross and complete the work that God encomended him

[lavish finch]

Hello

Christopher

I see you're quoting biblical verse.

[thorny steeple]

Hi james good morning

Yes i have it saved that quot , that important quot .

I felt i needed to say that

Not always God push me to do it

Like that

[lavish finch]

Ok

[reef mason]

God has a son

[thorny steeple]

I hope someone belive it , but not depends of me , it depends of God so i'm well for it

[reef mason]

Does he have a wife as well?

[thorny steeple]

He and his son doesn't have a begining

[reef mason]

Wow

[thorny steeple]

So his son never was born

In eternity

[reef mason]

"So his son was never born" is the correct statement

[south vapor]

God doesn’t have a son

[reef mason]

Then what about the Holy Lady Mary?

[reef mason]

Which religion do you follow?

[thorny steeple]

Also His son is his part of the body of God , because Father doesn't have budy and is unviewable , but the son is his same image of his sustance

[south vapor]

Islam

[reef mason]

@south vapor do you have something like this for your god?

[south vapor]

الله لم يلد ولم يولد

[reef mason]

I mean.. someone who is the face of god?

[south vapor]

God is one he doesn’t have no son no wife no husband

Read surat alikhlas and that’s what we believe

[reef mason]

Does that mean Jesus is the Impersonator of god!?

[reef mason]

I said someone who is called the face of god, the hand of god, the lion of god?

[humble lion]

Khalid son of waleed, sword of god

[sour marlin]

@thorny steeple why God had a son but no daughter?

[reef mason]

Sword?? Then there might be a hand of god

[sour marlin]

Isn't it sex discrimination?

[south vapor]

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ ﴿۱﴾ Say: 'He is Allah, the One, (1) اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ ﴿۲﴾ the called upon. (2) لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ ﴿۳﴾ Who has not given birth, and has not been born, (3) وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ ﴿۴﴾ and there is none equal to Him. ' (4)

[sour marlin]

Doesn't it mean that in it religion men are better than women?

[reef mason]

You forgot about Mary the mother of Jesus

[south vapor]

Yeah

[reef mason]

Same as jesus

[sour marlin]

It was his wife?

Why his wife lived on earth?

[reef mason]

Ask @thorny steeple

[humble lion]

Means khalid son of waleed was such a good swordsman he defeated many armies so it was given as a credit to him

[sour marlin]

Im actually asking him

[reef mason]

Oh...

[south vapor]

Still u think Jesus is god?

[earnest raven]

whats ur religion

[sour marlin]

Why do u ask?

[reef mason]

Did I ever say that!?

[earnest raven]

why not?

[reef mason]

Islam

Her religion

[sour marlin]

I'm not here to discuss my religion I'm here to ask about god

[south vapor]

So he’s not?

[sour marlin]

Hhhh it's kind wierd yk
My religion is Islam WBU?

[reef mason]

Why are you scared to tell them your religion

[lavish finch]

No pushing

[reef mason]

I never said that as well

[sour marlin]

I'm not scared c'mon man
It was the first time someone asking me that

[south vapor]

So what is he

[reef mason]

Didn't push sorry

[south vapor]

I need to know

[humble lion]

Push me🫦

[south vapor]

[reef mason]

Serious chat

[humble lion]

I'm dead serious

[south vapor]

So what is Jesus ?
Why don’t u answer

[lavish finch]

So am I.

[reef mason]

🙂

[humble lion]

🤝

[earnest raven]

well , at this point , she said that why god had a son and not a daughter so i'd ask why there is women to have sex with men ( hurs , ig the name ) in the heaven and there are no men to have sex with women? does god cares about the Men's sexual desires only?

@sour marlin

[south vapor]

Exactly u don’t want to talk

[thorny steeple]

Pilato asked the same question , so you have the answer of what

[south vapor]

Who’s Plato

[reef mason]

I don't remember where but I read he burned the gate of your prophet's only daughter

[lavish finch]

This is also pushing.

[reef mason]

He is a Prophet

[sour marlin]

Oh my god
U got it too wrong
Which sex?
Just there are some Virgins for single men and women.

[reef mason]

Oh god! I wasn't pushed

[south vapor]

No just trying to make them answer me but sorry if it looked that way

[south vapor]

Ok so he’s just a prophet than ?

Nothing else

[earnest raven]

single?

[reef mason]

Why did you change the topic?

[earnest raven]

who said that?

[sour marlin]

Whoever which hasn't married irl

[south vapor]

How?

[humble lion]

I dont have info about that but, he was not muslim before and was fighting muslims...

[earnest raven]

could you show me the verse , please?

[sour marlin]

Sure, could u gimme few minutes?

[earnest raven]

take your time

[reef mason]

And god the title "SWORD OF GOD"!!!

What do you guys wanna prove?

[south vapor]

So if u think Jesus is just a prophet than you have Islam beliefs

[thorny steeple]

Yisus is the Son of God

[earnest raven]

a prophet beat the death? so if the prophets can beat death why mohmmed didnt?

[humble lion]

I just said he is the sword of god. I dont prove anything

[reef mason]

@thorny steeple wins a point Islam doesn't have anyone who can be called "The face of God"

[south vapor]

We have god

[reef mason]

Nope I asked that question to everyone

[lavish finch]

Yes, trying to make someone answer us is a kind of pushing.

[humble lion]

Okie

[south vapor]

Okay sorry

[lavish finch]

Best to answer ourselves

Invite questions to everyone

[reef mason]

But you guys don't have someone who can be called "THE FACE OF GOD"

[lavish finch]

and allow people to answer or not

[south vapor]

What is the face of god u mean?

[humble lion]

So what?😂😂

[south vapor]

What does he mean

[earnest raven]

@south vapor could you please answer?

[humble lion]

Idk😂

[south vapor]

Wdym?

[south vapor]

😂

[reef mason]

If you lost this one 1 point will go to Christopher cuz he said jesus is Same as god

[south vapor]

So ur saying a god is a man right?

[humble lion]

Okieee let him get 10 idk what is face of god

[reef mason]

Do you know how he died? Do you know how jesus died? Do you know how moses died?

[earnest raven]

jesus beated death according to the bible , the quran orders you to belive in the bible and the Torah , so i think no one can deny , right?

[earnest raven]

yes i do

[reef mason]

Nope, I am saying there should be someone who has a face of god in your religion as well

[humble lion]

All normal except jesus which was a miracle and is mentioned in the quran

[reef mason]

When did you read that In the Holy Qur'an

Show me

[south vapor]

Where does it say to follow the Bible and even if it does the Bible at ur house isn’t the real original one

Because in the original real bible it’ll say follow Islam

[humble lion]

Why

[thorny steeple]

Quran say that bible is trusted

[reef mason]

According to the quran jesus is not dead and the one who was chasing Jesus died instead of him

[reef mason]

NO! If that is so then SHOW ME

[thorny steeple]

That is what evil wants you belive

[humble lion]

Okie then?

[reef mason]

Look at Quran if you trust it Qur'an said that

I gtg

[earnest raven]

|| يقول تعالى: قل يا محمد يا أهل الكتاب لستم على شيء أي من الدين حتى تقيموا التوراة والإنجيل، أي حتى تؤمنوا بجميع ما بأيديكم من الكتب المنزلة من الله على الأنبياء، وتعملوا بما فيها، ومما فيها الأمر باتباع محمد ﷺ والإيمان بمبعثه، والاقتداء بشريعته، ولهذا قال ليث بن أبي سليم عن مجاهد: في قوله: وما أنزل إليكم من ربكم يعني: ...|| || يقول تعالى : قل يا محمد : { يا أهل الكتاب لستم على شيء } أي: من الدين { حتى تقيموا التوراة والإنجيل } أي: حتى تؤمنوا بجميع ما بأيديكم من الكتب المنزلة من الله على الأنبياء ، وتعملوا بما فيها ومما فيها الأمر باتباع محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم والإيمان بمبعثه ، والاقتداء بشريعته ; ولهذا قال ليث بن أبي سليم ، عن مجاهد في قوله ...|| here is the verse and the explantion written in the original language of the book, @reef mason @south vapor

[south vapor]

The real one

[thorny steeple]

Quran say that Bible is from God

So bible cant be contradiced but

Quran contradice bible so quran lie

[humble lion]

Brothers and sisters i have explained the concept of "god has son" logically and scientifically here before. Saying god has a son is against a true beliefe by all means... no need to argue on if jesus dead or not when u believe god has a son.

[south vapor]

But the Bible today wasn’t the Bible then it has been تحريف on it

[earnest raven]

hold on i'll show you a video of the oldest bibles compared with today's ones

[sour marlin]

@earnest raven go and read the surah waqiah I can't send pdf in here

[south vapor]

There’s no oldest Bible their all the same there’s one copy that someone had hid so they can make a new copy

[sour marlin]

Bible has changed several times bro

[earnest raven]

read what?

[south vapor]

Exactlyyy

[craggy sphinx]

hello my friends

[reef mason]

I am a Shia muslim come to my dm if you feel like debating me

[south vapor]

Hello

[south vapor]

Oh heck no

Ur Shia

[humble lion]

Oyyy persian. سلام

[earnest raven]

could you tell me what has changed in the bible and why , where and who did? @south vapor @sour marlin

[reef mason]

And there is "Ali the brother of the prophet Muhammad" who is the FACE OF GOD THE HAND OF GOD THE LION OF GOD

[south vapor]

We don’t know where or when or how it had changed tho so

[reef mason]

The followers of jesus did that

[south vapor]

Ok now ur just saying random stuff

[reef mason]

Why did you say that?!

[earnest raven]

so you have 0 evidence . you cant say anything about it.

[earnest raven]

why?

[reef mason]

Go read the books

[humble lion]

Bro u have numerous versions and differences wdym by that have u ever seen a bible or asked some experts about this? Or u just watch a video and talk?!

[south vapor]

I have many I think

Evidence

[earnest raven]

didnt you just say you dont?

[reef mason]

Khalid ibn waleed, Muawiya etc people stole his names

[sour marlin]

Lots of things have changed
And even the LGBTQ community was illegal in ur bible
They made it legal in bible

[thorny steeple]

The real problem is that Quran appear after 5hundred years of christ, only have stories that is completly hard yo belive it , also quran is hypocrite becuase calls to everyone to cut neck to everyone who is not beliver .

[earnest raven]

i know what i'm saying

[reef mason]

Read a bit more of it

Understand it don't Misunderstand it

[earnest raven]

the LGBTQ still illegal

[sour marlin]

Sure sure?

[humble lion]

Ik what u saying too.

[sour marlin]

I heard it from a Christian

[thorny steeple]

What would you belive more , in the bible scriptures or in a book that appeared 500 years later ?, and that contradices the bible ?.

[earnest raven]

totally sure.

cheak it up

[south vapor]

I said I don’t know where when and how but I have evidence

[sour marlin]

I will believe in a book which appeared 1400 years ago and the never changed it ok?

[humble lion]

Your bible is made to benefit certain groups and people in some conditions brother

[south vapor]

Nah thanks ima read my books

[sour marlin]

Check up what?
U always keep changing it
Everytime
And it has changed several times
U can't deny this fact c'mooon

[earnest raven]

okay , what about the sheep who ate a part of the quran? who rewrote it again?

[south vapor]

Quran has every question u got

[earnest raven]

@sour marlin i'm not saying anything , im asking for a proof makes your words real

[humble lion]

Beother u say god has a son!!! Just explain me how an ever lasting god, the greatest, the almighty, the creator, has a son?!!

This is the change

One of them atleast

All prophets in the entire history of humanity has come with one single purpose: god is 1. Now u say god has a son!!!!

[thorny steeple]

Man you not even have read the bible and you say that to disappoint it , your willings are to do evil

[south vapor]

So what if it was 500 years more or even 10000 years it’s the right way and ur book got changed many times but the Quran stayed the same since the first time it was written

[south vapor]

Show me

[earnest raven]

can you tell me the explanation of the " we are the son of the river " for example . does it mean that their mom is a river? that's not how it works , dont translate it your own ways

[humble lion]

Don't bring evil into this and don't judge my intentions i'm asking a simple question

[thorny steeple]

@humble lion i wrote it up but , go up the chat and you will find it

[humble lion]

Okie i get you Tell me what does "god has a son" means then

[south vapor]

@earnest raven show me where there’s a sheep who ate the Quran

[humble lion]

Can u reply to it?

[sour marlin]

This much change

[thorny steeple]

I will say why Christ message is the truth and you will know why is the only way to arrive to the truth

[south vapor]

Ok I didn’t say that but I’m saying that the Bible has changed many times

[thorny steeple]

And ?

[south vapor]

Ur saying god was a man right

Right???

[thorny steeple]

No i didn't say that

[sour marlin]

Still?
Omg u want more changes

[south vapor]

Is Jesus god ?

[humble lion]

Imagine saying the bible is not changed

[south vapor]

Or son of god or idk what y’all believe

[thorny steeple]

Not like that but you want think that

[sour marlin]

@thorny steeple god is man or woman?

[thorny steeple]

Yes

[south vapor]

So god was a man

[sour marlin]

An obvious lie

[earnest raven]

imgaine saying , look the god is sitting next to you , will you believe? ofcourse no . so basically it was Simile to help people understand and belive in god

[humble lion]

Can you guys Define god to me according to your religion?!

[humble lion]

God sits next to me?😂😂 i must be holy

[earnest raven]

thats what i said .

[south vapor]

Ur making it worse

[earnest raven]

" imgaine"

[humble lion]

What is your religion?

[earnest raven]

what an endless topic haha

[earnest raven]

what do you think

[sour marlin]

God is one, he doesn't have gender, he doesn't need anyone, he wasn't born and no one was born from him, no one is worthy of worship but him .

[south vapor]

Shia or Christian

[earnest raven]

yes , a proud Christian.

[sour marlin]

Hey!
Shia ppl don't have the same believes as him

[tropic moat]

says who? I say god is male

[south vapor]

Yeah

[humble lion]

I always start a convo with a lead from the one talking to me and try to get somewhere tgether but i am always disappointed and have to start making fun of the facts smh...

[sour marlin]

This is what it is in my religion

Btw why Male? Why not female?

[south vapor]

Where did u go @thorny steeple

[sour marlin]

Discrimination

[humble lion]

Beautiful

[sour marlin]

[south vapor]

U think god is male how do u know

[humble lion]

My thinking doesn't matter

[tropic moat]

idk thats how it is taught to us. And in every movie they show god is male

[south vapor]

Why wouldn’t god be a woman

[earnest raven]

then why the verses always written in a Masculine adjective when it's talking about god, for an example " هو العظيم "

[south vapor]

U believe what movies say

[sour marlin]

Yup
Because this is what Christians believe in
But that's not fair
It's Sex discrimination

[tropic moat]

yes. I am an atheist anyways why do i care lol

[humble lion]

Ahahaahahahahahahahahaha

[earnest raven]

oh repeating the same idea , its endless fr haha

[humble lion]

Bro why u laughing u should be trying to find an answer to it

[sour marlin]

It's "hwa"
But it doesn't mean he is male
U Say the "father" and the "son"
But in Quran is has mentioned that god doesn't have any gender

[south vapor]

[earnest raven]

because i know and you know no one will change his beliefs so i'm too lazy haha

[earnest raven]

هو doesnt mean he's a male?
creating new arabic grammer i see.

[sour marlin]

No
It's just a pronoun

[earnest raven]

HAHAHAHAQAHHA

well.

[humble lion]

Noo bro wallahi i am always researching and going after it, there's nothing as "a belief that can't be changed" even if u don't want to change deep down u change if the conditions favor it...

[tropic moat]

christopher is such a cool name tho

[earnest raven]

thats true

[south vapor]

That doesn’t mean that god is a man they’re just signaling he as “god”

[earnest raven]

wanna start round 2?
Who's right shiaa or sunnah?

[south vapor]

Sunnah

100%

[humble lion]

Ahaha don't talk about arabic grammar when it's about the quran, i'm sure that هو used as a pronoun for god has a special explanation which is different from basic arabic grammar.

[earnest raven]

hahahaha she's creating new grammer right there

[humble lion]

this is making fun of religion m8

[tropic moat]

https://tenor.com/view/trust-allah-gif-10152728

[earnest raven]

brother , you should listen to other's opinions

[earnest raven]

i'm not?

[humble lion]

You too! You don't decide based on your simple basic arabic knoweldge of grammar m8 quran has exceptions many times

[south vapor]

U asked the question to everybody didn’t u?

[humble lion]

Anyways good talk people i see the christian boy is gone so its no fun, have a good one im leaving

Oh he is here

[lavish finch]

I'd like to slow this conversation down.

[earnest raven]

did you just say that 16y of learning arabic is basic arabic? hahaha

[humble lion]

Yes it's. Quran has it's own science and it's unique, you would know if u are arab. Idk u are or not

[lavish finch]

I repeat, I'd like to slow this conversation down.

[earnest raven]

i learnt the quran and know probably better than you haha

[south vapor]

Ok make it 30 seconds that’s way too much @lavish finch

[humble lion]

Well that's lovely. I dont say im better. Just saying quran is not as simple as school arabic grammar...

[lavish finch]

To encourage more connection and understanding.

There are other channels in this group for more fast paced banter.

I'd like you to take the time to read and think, not just reply.

[thorny steeple]

God was and is an spirit allmighty , the Son has a title as his Word , before everything was only nathing , only God and his son and his spirit, but They are like a budy , they are in communion since always eternity , God is his title but they are one God because just they form 1 Body in communion .

But after have created everything and the men and women and that also the personality of God is men and women because He said : lets create human like us , and they were created like his personality not with his powerfull atributes but his personality , after humanity fall in sin and recive the deservment of punishment ; God said to his Son to Go Down and Become as Human (Men) , for live the life that men couldn't , and if you read the old testment you will see that He before become human was with the father God st his right, and He always asked for sacrifices for forgive their sins , they had to spread blood's sheep and kill it outside the camping and eat its flesh and drink its blood of the sheep , do you remember that Yisus was murderer and puted on the cross outside of israel, that spread his blood, and suffered his flesh kicked,

After he go to be sacrificed he said to his followers, who eat my flesh and drink my blood will have eternal life , also blood was to clear sin of who belived in his work , he was called the sheep of God because that , the prophecy was completing while his life was passing.

[humble lion]

2:00!! I think you indirectly saying: don't talk in this channel?

[tropic moat]

i agree with u.

[lavish finch]

I was unable to keep up with the pace of the comments for the last hour.

And if I'm unable to keep up that means others are also unable to keep up.

I'd like us all to have a chance to read what others say so that our responses are thoughtful and meaningful.

[earnest raven]

but " hwa . هو" used to descripe a masculine things , right? in the basic arabic grammer, since the quran is written in a strong - arabic grammer and its just simple way to describe masculine so i dont think that anyone can aruge about it.

[lavish finch]

I understand this may not be as fun as responding immediately with one word. And continuously telling other people to explain themselves. But I want to make space for education in addition to fun.

[tropic moat]

but who says quran is the end all be all source for what is truth. We can all have our own interpretations

[earnest raven]

Quran is the heart of the arabic grammer . i'm not saying that its right or wrong book

[lavish finch]

Now.

I love the topic.

It has a lot of potential.

[tropic moat]

i disagree with quran. It is a very misogynistic book and is very clearly written by some uneducated, egotestical people.

That is why i burned the book and left the religion and my dads home at the age of 13

[lavish finch]

There's some discussion about religion, gender and gendered grammar.

[tropic moat]

i am now an atheist and worship science and logical reasoning and rationality

[tropic moat]

yes would u like to add something to it

[lavish finch]

Yes

language influences how we think, but it does not determine how we think.

This is called the weak Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.

"language influences thought and perception but doesn't determine it entirely. In this version, different languages might predispose their speakers to focus on certain aspects or perceptions of the world, but it doesn't restrict them from understanding or perceiving concepts outside their language."

[thorny steeple]

Sciencie, science says that univers was created becuase anything can be birth from nothing

Universe has a begining

[lavish finch]

Whether the universe has a beginning or not is a profound question.

[thorny steeple]

Big bang , someone had to push on things , otherways it's imposible that randomly univers could be created ordererly

[humble lion]

So do u say that bcz of using هو as the pronoun god is male?

[lavish finch]

"If everything must have a cause, then God must also have a cause. If one says God is the exception and doesn't need a cause, then, by the same logic, one could argue the universe itself might be the exception and doesn't need a cause."

[earnest raven]

i think so , Iam all ears if you would like to tell me something which i dont know or misunderstood

[tropic moat]

well i refuse to see how language can predispose a person into certain view of the world. A person speaking english but born and living in india will still be predisposed to same cultural biases as other indians.

So i think culture and genes and ur environment can ultimately decide ur thoughts not langueage u speak

[formal scaffold]

ليس كمثله شيئ " and nothing is like him"

why you giving god gender now? Oo

if you wanna do it don't pin it on Quran thanks

[earnest raven]

so you are adding to my point or you want me to explain? xd

[formal scaffold]

I'm confused xD ....who's giving god genders?

[earnest raven]

would like to see @humble lion reply

[tropic moat]

science dosent claim to have an exact answer to anything. Yes our current best guess is that universe was created from the big bang.

Okay let me tell u something. The big bang definitely happened. There was definietely an event in space 14 billion years ago when the matter convulated in a short space began to expand rapidly.

Whether this was the start of the universe or not remains a mystery

[formal scaffold]

You can sit there for a millenia to convince me that it's true, but if I Don't believe in it, it won't work

I can sit here for a 100 years to proof quran and islam and the scientific and historique prophecies but you won't believe them

It's all up to hearts

[humble lion]

Ahahahaha bruhhhhh u said u have studied quran yet u say allah is male

[earnest raven]

nothing funny , read my last word

[humble lion]

I have someone on mind who knows better than me about quran, i'll ask him about this topic and answer u insha'allah

[humble lion]

Still

[earnest raven]

then tell me what god is

[formal scaffold]

Go watch لمسات بيانية it'll clear up the language issues for you

[earnest raven]

who?

[tropic moat]

“science is based on fact and religion is based on faith. “

All religions have so called proofs that their religion decoded and predicted something. But just by simple probability if u say 1000 things about the future some of them have a good chance of being true

[formal scaffold]

You know what numeral system you are using daily? I can explain it in detail why it's a faith too

[lavish finch]

That sounds quite interesting.

[formal scaffold]

I studied that in university btw

[lavish finch]

I'd like to know

[formal scaffold]

well we are using decimal system and we humans are the one who made up those operations(x,-,/,+)

[lavish finch]

On a related note, do you believe that math is invented or discovered?

[formal scaffold]

we are the ones who chose 0 and 1 as exceptions

[humble lion]

God is one, the ever lasting the creator, the most merciful yet the hardest punisher, the most powerful the greatest. He is not born nor will die, he is always awake and all things, living or non living are worshipping him (except humans ofc)...

[formal scaffold]

It's both

[humble lion]

I use "he" as a simple pronoun. It's not mentioning gender

[formal scaffold]

it's our interpretation on quantity in the universe

to make our lives easier

[earnest raven]

good job you have translated the exact verse to english ( haven't answered me ) 🤝

[formal scaffold]

I Don't remember the first to use it, if I remember well it was a shepard ig

[lavish finch]

I'm interested in the philosophy of math, and have studied it, but did not make much progress.

[humble lion]

Which verse? It's from my mind

Also wdym by ur question? U mean as of gender?

[lavish finch]

Following Betrand Russell, I understand math as an extension of logic.

[earnest raven]

nvm bro you wont get what i mean

[humble lion]

[lavish finch]

Sorry, I know there are two separate conversations taking place. I wonder how we might bring them together.

[lavish finch]

Do you mean you use he as a neutral pronoun?

Yes. It was used that way for a very long time.

There is disagreement about whether it's really neutral or not.

[humble lion]

That's what i believe indeed however i just asked someone i trust he knows more than me about this...

[lavish finch]

For example, here's a comment in a book I used a lot, from 1989. This would be unacceptable poltically now.

[formal scaffold]

I saw yesterday a Comedian mocking people for not knowing about neutral pronouns

[civic reef]

Maybe not strictly related to this, but I heard "bro" and "guys" being used to refer to female friends too, so I kind of adopted this practice myself

[formal scaffold]

or "Dude"

[lavish finch]

Yes. Same for me. Attitudes have changed. These are like styles. They change for better or worse.

[craggy sphinx]

😊 this chat is gradually coming to life

I'm glad

[formal scaffold]

There are other relted stuff to that, like when god says for instance "taking things in hand" he didn't say that clearly but there's something like that in the book some kind of idiom thing, and people say he's in our image and he's human

in the other hand you gotta understand that the book was written for humans from a god, He gotta simplify things for them sometimes and make them think other times

" And in death you might find life ..."

[earnest raven]

is it arabic quote?

[lavish finch]

the word man was original gender neutral

in old english man meant person. and to indicate male or female to "man" you added "wir" or "wif"

[devout shale]

Like manwir?

[lavish finch]

so in old english wermann meant male human. surprising since it sounds like woman.

wifmann meant woman, and is the origin of the word wife.

[formal scaffold]

werewolf

[lavish finch]

yes

man-wolf

[formal scaffold]

Idk when people use the word science they just think of Biology, physics, chemisty and math, they forget that there are other fields in science

[lavish finch]

what other fields?

[formal scaffold]

like sociology for instance

philosophy

[lavish finch]

hard vs soft sciences

philosophy and science have split ways

nature cannot be cut at the joints

[formal scaffold]

mb philosophy gave birth to science

a lot of this sciences started from philosophes

[lavish finch]

I think of science as a process rather than content

science - philosophy - religion

they make up a spectrum of methods for investigation

[formal scaffold]

Observasion, hyphothes, erm? expiremnt , conclusion?

[lavish finch]

perhaps. I'm not sure it's easily codified.

[formal scaffold]

so there's no process in philosophy? just content

what's the way to advance then if not reading other philosopher stuff?

[lavish finch]

well philosophy takes on questions that science doesn't

there are many questions that science doesn't attempt to answer and really cannot be answered in a laboratory. Such as, what's a good way to live life.

[formal scaffold]

when I read plato's apology, Socrates was going from a person to a person to look for a wiser person than him

it resembles the experiment in scientific method

[lavish finch]

sure, there's a resemblance. there are also important differences, esp since the 17th century

One would not go from person to person to calculate the motion of the planets. One would do calculations.

in other words, there's a limit to the usefulness of discourse

Perhaps one can translate the calculations into a discourse like aproximation, but that would be very onerous

religion also resembles science

[formal scaffold]

Like statistics

[formal scaffold]

How so?

[lavish finch]

well there's a reason that many people engaged in science were also engaged in religious thinking.

They were asking questions

That no one had satisfying answers to

until more satisfying answers were discovered

[formal scaffold]

would you think those three will ever replace the other? like can science replaces philosophy or relegion in the far future?

[lavish finch]

No, I can't imagine that

They address different areas

knowledge - curiosity - dogma

[formal scaffold]

😮 that's a good way to put it

can those fields cross ways?

I see that for instance in the origin of the universe or the afterlife

[lavish finch]

They interact

and they each exist in all of us to varying extents. no one is free of all three.

[formal scaffold]

what about people who deny one of them? i see a lot of people denying philosophy

[lavish finch]

deny? you can try. just as you can deny anything. but can you deny it in a meaningful way. Decartes said you can deny anything, but you can't deny that there is someone denying. So that's a good place to start.

[formal scaffold]

there's also this on quran about those who says they don't have a relegion, that they are relegious indeen and they worship their desires and well being

[lavish finch]

And the greek god of love reminds us that love has value.

There's plenty of wisdom in religion.

[formal scaffold]

Yeah I don't know why people think that relgion is the opposite of science while most of scientist that got noble prizes are relegious themselves

The more you are fascinated by science the more you believe in a higher Entity who made it

[lavish finch]

to the extent possible, I think we benefit from ridding ourselves of dogmatic thinking. but it's easier said than done.

[formal scaffold]

I'll make sure to enrich in both philosophy and science bc I want to see clear in theology

thanks for the chat Mr james I gotta head out for the weekly prayer

I wish you the best

[lavish finch]

If you study philosophy you are guaranteed to come up against theology

take care

[formal scaffold]

and if I come against Theology It'll enrich me

it'll strenghthen my belief

you too take care 🙂

[lavish finch]

I don't know why anyone would want to strengthen their beliefs. I'd like to connect to truth, even if that means weakening my beliefs.

I guard against belief as an identify, as hard as that is

I know that I have beliefs

but I'd be happy to give them up for good reason

[craggy sphinx]

[craggy sphinx]

Why does connecting to truth weaken your beliefs?

What does “connection with truth” mean?

[lavish finch]

Because I don't think that everything I believe is true. But it's not so easy to discover what those mistaken beliefs are, as much as I'd like to. And so necessarily as I come closer to truth some of my beliefs weaken.

[craggy sphinx]

but what do your secondary beliefs have to do with this? in any case, you do not believe that this is always true.

why should it weaken your convictions?

[lavish finch]

I'm not sure what you mean by secondary beliefs.

But sure, it's not always true. Some of my beliefs are probably false and some are probably true.

Truth is an ideal

Belief is what I have

There is probably some overlap

"Truth refers to the way things actually are – the objective state of affairs. A statement is true if it corresponds with reality.
A belief is a mental attitude or state wherein an individual holds a proposition to be true. It's subjective and resides in the mind of the believer."

"For a belief to be considered knowledge it must meet three criteria: it must be justified, it must be true, and the person must believe it. This is known as the "justified true belief" (JTB) in theories of knowledge.
However, one can believe something that isn't true, and there can be truths that no one believes."

for example;

"You are sitting inside your home, and you hear the sound of raindrops hitting the window. You also see water pouring down outside through the windowpane.

Belief: You believe that it is raining outside.

Justification: The sound of raindrops and the sight of water pouring down outside serve as empirical evidence that justify your belief.

Truth: Upon stepping outside or asking someone who's just come in, it's confirmed that it indeed is raining outside.

In this case, your belief that it's raining is both justified (by your sensory experiences) and true (it really is raining outside). This makes it a justified true belief."

Here's an example of a justified false belief;

"You have an analog wall clock in your living room. Every time you've checked it in the past, it has shown the correct time. Today, you glance at the clock, and it shows 3:00 PM.

Belief: You believe it is 3:00 PM.

Justification: Your belief is based on the reliable track record of the clock, which has always shown the correct time in the past.

Truth: Unbeknownst to you, the clock stopped working an hour ago. It's actually 4:00 PM."

In this second example, I would love for my belief to weaken and give way to truth.

@thorny steeple I deleted your post and moved it to #📚｜english-questions

[crystal bough]

👆🏻
Good 💯 👍🏻

[craggy sphinx]

you can't be 100% sure of this.

What about the opposite.

Lets say we are ignorant and foolish. We make mistakes, many of them. In fact, everything we ever did or are what we are going to do contains imperfections, mistakes.

You and all people on earth are subjective beings.

you may be wrong

[peak shale]

@opal fox you here?

[craggy sphinx]

And it is impossible to prove the objectivity of anything, Mr. James Green.

[brave tundra]

Hi there! I have a question about studying English. Do you have a plan for studying or no? because I haven’t a plan

[craggy sphinx]

hello my friend.
Here - #📚｜english-questions

[craggy sphinx]

if you understand Russian speech, then I can recommend you a channel - «Английский язык по плей листам»

[brave tundra]

Okay

[humble lion]

@earnest raven hi, as i said b4 i asked a friend of mine about "why is هو used as a pronoun for god in the quran" he mentioned me some simple answers which im gonna relay them to u however he said that this question has been asked b4 and is answered in complete detail in books in which he couldn't find now.
So: first of all he mentioned the fact that using either هو or هي is mandatory as a pronoun for god because arabic language doesn't have the third neutral pronoun which is present in some other languahes such as german. He stated that in german there are 3 genders or pronouns which are "feminine" "musculine" and "neutral" but due to absence of "neutral" part in arabic it's mandatory to use either هو or هي. So the question now is "which one to use?" He approched this question again by examining arabic langauge, he said that for a noun to be feminine it's either a مؤنث" السماعي" or has the letter "ة" in the end of it, so since the word "الله" is neither a "مؤنث السماعي" nor has the letter "ة" in the end of it. هو is used as the pronoun.
Also he stated that this pronoun is used only due to lack of a neutral pronoun that can be used perfectly and uniquely for the word "الله" he said that it has no relation with god's gender and if one thinks of genders his "العقدة" is not complete and is certainly not a muslim.
Hope this makes sense for you...

[craggy sphinx]

b4?

[humble lion]

Before*

[craggy sphinx]

. There are several spellings of this language, which one are you talking about?

@static pivot

I saw you

[static pivot]

Hello

Just wanna say

B4

[craggy sphinx]

how are you?

[static pivot]

Is a coordinate in chess

I'm good wbu

And what's going on here?

[craggy sphinx]

yes😁

[craggy sphinx]

🤷‍♂️

[craggy sphinx]

I'm trying to understand what exactly he wants to say

[craggy sphinx]

I'm fine, thanks

[humble lion]

Do u know arabic?

[earnest raven]

thanks for you time , i got it

[woeful narwhal]

In German, when referring to God or using pronouns for God, the pronoun used is "Er," which means "He".
It is most likely because God is often referred to as "Der Gott" and treated as masculine.
"Der" is the definite article for masculine nouns.

[tame ember]

Some one here

[worthy umbra]

Hello

[tame ember]

Hi

[wild forge]

Hi

[sour marlin]

No this pronoun Is used for male ik that

[humble lion]

I see. In arabic the musciline form is more used than the feminine form when both can be used. The musculine form is more dominant..

[humble lion]

Bravo

[rugged viper]

Hello there everyone 😊

[formal scaffold]

OMG -_-, Quran is sent as a miracle of language as its miracle, god has no gender nor metabolism, nor time affects him and there's nothing like him

A lot of grammar rules falls and changes if the word "GOD" is used to distinguish him from anything else

and to discuss those you need to be a theologist or a linguistic person

[fleet robin]

hello

what serious stuff we taking about

[rugged viper]

😊

[fleet robin]

i looking for a job guys

but no company employing me

: (

[covert raptor]

There is a branch of philosophy called philosophy of science which decides what is science, and places boundaries to it. The scientific method, induction, and logic comes from it. Without that, there is no science.

[formal scaffold]

I see thanks for the heads up maybe i should refrain from diving too deep, maybe I can find my own philosophy, for sure there was a lot of religious philosophers maybe I should check them out

[covert raptor]

we can use they/them for God

[formal scaffold]

I'm talking about quran and arabic in it

the plural is used sometimes but it's hard to explain it

"We"

[covert raptor]

Outside of Arabic since you said there is no gender for God

[formal scaffold]

Well idk that's outside my knowledge

[solemn maple]

Hello 👋

My name's Waleed. I'm from Egypt

[worthy umbra]

Hello

[worthy umbra]

I am from Afghanistan.