Ritchey–Chrétien enjoyers thread

[harsh matrix]

that means flexture

if there is no wind, it is flexture

that has to be it

[vapid patio]

Not a single bit of wind

[tight lodge]

A fully loaded WAVE 150i including the mount weight, sums up to 79lbs. The CF tripod is rated for 50lbs💀

[harsh matrix]

yikes

[tight lodge]

Good job Discord. Your replay function works amazing

[vapid patio]

My cgem fully loaded up is almost 150 pounds lmao

[harsh matrix]

jfc

[vapid patio]

Ok it’s going back down to 0.80

Still not great but eh

[harsh matrix]

youre not going to be able to get good numbers tonight lol

[vapid patio]

And yeah the Dec is prob bad pa

[vapid patio]

With the tripod you mean? I mean I got good numbers just could not keep them

[harsh matrix]

well it was fine near the equator where you would typically see much worse dec performance

[harsh matrix]

with the tripod yes

[vapid patio]

Fair fair

I’m not trying to get good data anyways skys are as doodoo as shooting through a wet rag

Made no sense

My collimation is bad aswell

I got some things to sort out

[harsh matrix]

yes you do

[vapid patio]

BACK UP TO 1.00 WHYYY

[harsh matrix]

saw tooth like this means 2 things

bad seeing, and oscillations

[vapid patio]

Not a guiding thing?

And short exp thing?

Maybe try 1.0?

[tight lodge]

Hiw good was your PA?

[harsh matrix]

i think it is the exposure in part

[vapid patio]

Under 1 arc sec

Or what’s the smaller second one

[harsh matrix]

minute

[vapid patio]

Tru 1s maybe?

[vapid patio]

Ok less than 1 arc minute

[harsh matrix]

1 to 1.5

maybe even 2

[vapid patio]

Let me see how it responds

Ra and Dec are just as bad rn

Ouch

[harsh matrix]

yeah if changing the guide exposure does literally nothing, its flexture

i dont see any other reason why that would be the case

[vapid patio]

Yeah no tried all 0.5-2s and they all as bad

[harsh matrix]

yeaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh

that's your best friend flexture

thanks to the amazing carbon fiber scam tripod

RIP

[vapid patio]

Best friend is pushing it 🫩

[vapid patio]

Not my money 😁😁😁

All borrowed so at least its not my money

[harsh matrix]

well you can kindly give it back to him and try the mount on an actual steel tripod

[vapid patio]

You swear it's nothing settings wise?

[harsh matrix]

im seeing PHD2 trying its best and something external is preventing it from reaching an equillibrium

[harsh matrix]

i do not know what else it would be unless the mount itself is garbage

[vapid patio]

Yeah I mean I did get it down pretty good so I don't think its the mount its self

[harsh matrix]

all of those spikes are accompanied by corrections

PHD2 is trying its hardest and it is all in vain

something not in your control is at fault

[harsh matrix]

it could be periodic error i mean

[vapid patio]

I think my seeing is so bad I'm still not getting star trials 😭

[harsh matrix]

but at the same time, periodic error that bad would be huge yikes

[harsh matrix]

LMAO

[vapid patio]

Hopefully

[harsh matrix]

now just for a sanity check...

[harsh matrix]

am I sane or insane @tight lodge ?

i think im a mix of both of course but a third party review will validate or invalidate my suspicions

[vapid patio]

Do you have any guide charts from when you had a tc40? Or is that longg gone

[harsh matrix]

i think i still have all of my guide logs

[vapid patio]

@tight lodge look over our conclusion and give a report

I would like a second option for safety

[tight lodge]

Tbh, I can narrow the jerkiness of my guiding down to the tripod as well. Because if I guide at 0.5s or 1s, I get the same results.

[harsh matrix]

uh oh no i dont have any of those logs anymore

[harsh matrix]

and that's that

[vapid patio]

😔

[harsh matrix]

lol...

[vapid patio]

So it is tripod?

[harsh matrix]

im gonna give it an 80/20 split that it's the tripod and not something else personally

this is a pretty deep treasure trove of evidence at this point

[vapid patio]

Fair fair I just have no clue you know 🤷‍♂️ so I have to consult the Professionals

[harsh matrix]

we're certainly not professionals but we've done enough farting around to get in trouble

[vapid patio]

lol well good enough to know what the celestial equator is 🫩

“ I say that jokingly as I had no clue”

[tight lodge]

That's why I didn't get the pier extension for the CF tripod. That would have made things even worse

[vapid patio]

Amazing streak of days to test

[tight lodge]

But imma have to find a way to install the WAVE150i on the HEQ-5 tripod.

[vapid patio]

But you did get it after?

[tight lodge]

Nope. I don't have the pier

And yes... that's 22lbs of CW

[harsh matrix]

oh god i didnt even think about that

[vapid patio]

Oh I read your message as if it was vels

[harsh matrix]

oh crap... 😭

that is definitely not going to go down well with that tripod

[vapid patio]

Vel what is your tripod

Avx?

[harsh matrix]

yeah

if i wasnt greedy for exposure time id probably call this thing done here...

[tight lodge]

It's perfectly balanced. I unlock the clutch and it's perfectly balanced. And I didn't even planned it🥹

[vapid patio]

Ok they are not the same

[harsh matrix]

oh?

[vapid patio]

Your center bolt is 3/8 mine is m12 “metric”

[harsh matrix]

i believe the one that normally gets used with the AVX is a 10mm rod

so M12 is even better because that means that hole is larger

should be even less sketchy to thread a rod up through

[vapid patio]

But it won’t fit into peir extension?

Might have to drag it into the store lol

[harsh matrix]

the M12 bolt with your CGEM tripod wont thread into the pier extension because M12 is way too big

M10 is way too big

3/8" is smaller than both of them and it's the same thread as the adapter you have on the bottom of the PE200 right now

[vapid patio]

Wait so this won’t work?

[harsh matrix]

it should work

[vapid patio]

Oh I’m so lost

[harsh matrix]

you dont need to thread the rod INTO the tripod itself, the CGEM tripod

[vapid patio]

Oh

[harsh matrix]

you are just supposed to interface it through, into the adapter on the bottom of the PE200, and you use the tripod spreader as the tensioner to hold the PE200 and tripod together

[vapid patio]

Ah ok ok ok I see now

Simple

[harsh matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fexA3fVqNyI&pp=ygUcdXNpbmcgcGUgMjAwIHdpdGggYXZ4IHRyaXBvZA%3D%3D

this is a visual and a verbal explanation if you want

[vapid patio]

Perfect thanks man

[harsh matrix]

go to 4:25 in the video

the first part of the video is irrelevant to you

WAIT

NOPE

dont listen to him

whatever the hell he did does not work for anyone

😭

[harsh matrix]

@vapid patio

ignore that video

[tight lodge]

You know what's the thing to install the mount on?

[harsh matrix]

that is fake news

[tight lodge]

Big ol concrete pier

[vapid patio]

Sorry I was just watching it. I was like huh? The whole video

[harsh matrix]

oh wait

my tripod uses m12 threads too

im confused now

i think 10mm is the threads that work for the smaller of the 2 PE200 adapters

[vapid patio]

Huh

[harsh matrix]

https://youtu.be/J_cniiR0224

this is the one i followed lmao

jesus

i still think something is wrong though

idk how or why he is using the smaller of the two pier extension adapters because that one is M10 and not 3/8"

ohhhhhh hang on

i think it's because 3/8" threads fit M10 threads but the connection is pretty unstable

that's why

that's right

i opted to use the larger one that you have installed at present because there is 0 play with a 3/8" rod but that does mean the PE200 does not sit flush with the top of the tripod

i personally would not trust the smaller adapter with payloads as heavy as ours but it's up to you if you want the PE200 to sit flush or not with the tripod

as far as i can tell, it does not matter, as long as the rod is threaded through the little adapter plate

[vapid patio]

Wait I’m so lost so I can’t do it right?

Wait so we have the same extension? And yours does not sit flush?

[harsh matrix]

correct

[harsh matrix]

you can do it.

your tripod uses an M12 rod like my "AVX" tripod does

[vapid patio]

Oh cool

[harsh matrix]

M12 does not thread into either adapter that comes with the PE200 which is why you need a 3/8" x 16" rod

[vapid patio]

Ok so I need that rod. And mine will be just like yours?

[harsh matrix]

yes, with the wing nuts and washers ofc

[vapid patio]

Yeah yeah

Well cool so it was just some confusion is all I guess

[harsh matrix]

very confusion

my knees are weak 😩

[vapid patio]

Mannnnn

[harsh matrix]

how does it look undersampled 😭

[vapid patio]

NASA at home

[vapid patio]

Cropped?

[harsh matrix]

genuinely

[vapid patio]

Makes you see the pixels more

[harsh matrix]

i zoomed way in and then took a screenshot lmao

the Angel looks amazing too

[vapid patio]

But I have noticed that a sho palette makes it look fuzzy

[harsh matrix]

well here's max zoom lmfao

harsh edges, very sharp

very very sharp

[vapid patio]

Sharp ✅✅✅✅

For fun I’m doing a HaRGB

Isn’t it like 4am for you?

[harsh matrix]

i had no idea this image was going to come out this well when i started

[harsh matrix]

3:21

am

[vapid patio]

Ok I’m a hour ahead

[harsh matrix]

yeah

[vapid patio]

Can’t wait to see m81 and m51 later this year

[tight lodge]

Backyard hubble

[tight lodge]

I can't wait to image m33

[harsh matrix]

backyard

[harsh matrix]

same

the rerun this year is going to go hard

even harder than the 47 hours i got last year

[vapid patio]

Doing it rn hehehe

[harsh matrix]

[tight lodge]

Especially because the 585 eats Hα for breakfast

[harsh matrix]

why does the 2x drizzle resolution look better

dafuq

it should look WORSE

HUH

[tight lodge]

There's a catch in me imaging M33. The weather needs to cooperate

[harsh matrix]

yup

this scope is cheating...

https://tenor.com/view/pc-man-crush-rage-gif-20192828

[harsh matrix]

what a 4k crop looks like on the 2x upsampled image

[vapid patio]

Uhhhh I think I stayed up too late

[tight lodge]

Why you say that?

[vapid patio]

M45 😭

Its almost 5am

[vapid patio]

The roosters are crowing and everything 😭

[tight lodge]

Still early o'clock

[harsh matrix]

ngl i love that sound being out in the middle of nowhere

like when im in my bortle 3 site

[vapid patio]

B3 back yard hehehehaha

But gotta stay humble

[harsh matrix]

it was the sound of roosters i remember hearing when i walked outside to look at the milky way core for the first time

it was no longer astro dark but i could still see the major star clouds in sagittarius up through Aquila

[vapid patio]

Man that's prob a key memory haba

[harsh matrix]

yeah it is at this point

[vapid patio]

thers 2 idk why

@harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

i just opened one of mine on accident and thought to myself "good god this guy's mount is doing what my AM5N did when it was broken"

and then i realized it was my log

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/pat-patrick-bateman-patrick-spongebob-meme-spongebob-gif-12593993314823291186

[harsh matrix]

oh there's 2 because one is a debug log and the other is the actual log

[vapid patio]

ahhh

[harsh matrix]

that would be how i made that mistake

I guess your PA was pretty bad

that certainly wasnt helping you

[tight lodge]

That explains why the RA was going up and then suddenly dipping down

[harsh matrix]

but yeah see how this is just one giant roller coaster?

it looks periodic to a degree

certainly looks like an oscillation

[vapid patio]

ouch

well the way to pa this mount is stilly

[harsh matrix]

this is your period length

it is 420.6s

[vapid patio]

ok almost the same as am5s i think

[harsh matrix]

the worst periodic deviation is 1.8" lol

that's pretty good

i believe

[vapid patio]

so its not the mount? just user error?

[harsh matrix]

user error + scammy CF tripod

[vapid patio]

good to know 😭

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

is that rc8?

[harsh matrix]

not blurx'd

[harsh matrix]

yes

[vapid patio]

wow big fov

[harsh matrix]

[tight lodge]

Now I'm curious about mine

[harsh matrix]

NGC 206 looks tasty as hell

that's what i was aiming for

[harsh matrix]

good

be horrified

[tight lodge]

Remind me in 6h

[harsh matrix]

this part looks awesome

[harsh matrix]

ill be asleep but sure

[tight lodge]

Then you will not be present for my public shaming

[harsh matrix]

i can see the structure im after better

in general there's a lot of dust here

[harsh matrix]

this is an hour and 6 minutes of lum from my garbo backyard btw

[vapid patio]

Its so silly how to pa the mount. You have to unscrew the plate then rescrew it when done. And that moves it a little and throws it off smh smh

[tight lodge]

Is that in M32

[harsh matrix]

no

core of M31

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix little hour of data only got 16min of data on r g b channels

not good but still cool

[harsh matrix]

errrrr

i kinda like

😩

[vapid patio]

Stop flex

[vapid patio]

Thanks

[tight lodge]

That's what you got in 1h?

[ripe crystal]

Blurx loves drizzle 2x

[harsh matrix]

yeah fr

[vapid patio]

Yep

Only 16min each channel

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix

This?

[harsh matrix]

too short

they had the rods in their own little place on that isle though

it was near the end of the isle

[vapid patio]

Its 16

[harsh matrix]

also the rod shouldnt have a screw head on it

[vapid patio]

These?

[harsh matrix]

unless your hand is huge, i highly doubt that is 16

[harsh matrix]

yes

god their's is a mess though

mine was neatly organized

there should be a 3/8" x 16" rod somewhere there

[vapid patio]

Ohhh 16

I thought 12

[harsh matrix]

no needs to be 16" because 12" is too short

i was mistaken when i said foot long

they better not be sold out

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Uhhhh lt serms they only have it in 72 inches 😭

They are gonna cut it for me

[harsh matrix]

Thats good

[harsh matrix]

3/8" thread though right?

[vapid patio]

Yep

I made EXTRA sure

I guess I have some extra

[harsh matrix]

Hell yeah brother

That looks correct

[vapid patio]

That's good 😭

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Ok in him how do I do this

?

[harsh matrix]

Thread the rod until the top of the rod is sticking about 3 quarters of an inch out of the bottom of the PE200

Once its there, tighten the top nut until the PE200 is snug and doesnt easily move

Then tighten the nut below the tripod spreader until it is tight and there is no play

It might help to take the plastic cuff thing off the leg of the tripod

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix So I have it right tho?

Wait how come It still spins

Its hard to spin it but still

I added a nut

[harsh matrix]

You could give the spreader a strong tug to see if you can get it to snap to a more level position

I find that it likes to droop down like that if you aren't careful

[harsh matrix]

I had to use channel locks and a lot of force to make it not spin...

Thats why a fluted knob is preferable

But you can't go buy fluted knobs on a whim, you have to order them online.

You need enough leverage on the nut to pull the rod so tight that the pier can't move but its virtually impossible unless you add another nut up top or use channel locks

[vapid patio]

I wasn't level when tightening it

[vapid patio]

Like I just did?

You see my vid

[harsh matrix]

Ye

[vapid patio]

Ok I will grab my channel locks and try

[harsh matrix]

Use em on the nuts of course

Not on the rod or the tripod itself

[vapid patio]

Haha I know

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Well I think I got it good enough I can’t get the plate to sit flat though

[harsh matrix]

Weird

Looks like the rod could be going up into the pier sideways like the pier was not centered

[vapid patio]

Well, doesn’t it have to be center for it to even screw on?

[harsh matrix]

Not really

3/8" threads are quite a bit smaller than 12 mm threads so its possible to get some lateral play in the rod as well as the pier when installing the whole thing

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Is it a big deal?

Or nah

[harsh matrix]

Don't think so

[vapid patio]

ok yeah though so i mena i ot it alot better than the last pic

its wtv

Good or bad idea @harsh matrix

You know it’s so light I feel it might tip so this lowers the center of gravity a good bit and makes it a brick

Bad idea?

[harsh matrix]

No

[harsh matrix]

Wait the spreader looks level now

I think they cut that rod to be more like 20 or 24 inches

Not a big deal, just makes tearing it down a lot more annoying

[vapid patio]

no i measured it

how much was i suppose to scew it in

[harsh matrix]

All the way through and then some

Are any of the threads poking up through the bottom of the pier extension?

Also idk how yours feels light

My tripod + pier extension alone weigh close to 20 pounds if I had to guess

[vapid patio]

like the whole setup is light lol

thats light

idk im used to 150 cgem setup

[vapid patio]

look at my video lol

but yes

[harsh matrix]

Oh duh

I knew that

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix did you ever have any trouble with remote desktop keps dissconnecting

like im right next to my house and it cant go 3 minutes

and i have a really good wifi adapter

[harsh matrix]

Yes

Its just not a very reliable connection

[vapid patio]

It’s pissing me off I can’t do this every night

So I ran a ethernet cord 👍

Problem solved

I hope

[harsh matrix]

I do it every night

I dont know of a better solution

[vapid patio]

Ngl asiair has it down

[harsh matrix]

Other than directly connecting to the Hotspot generated by the mini PC

[vapid patio]

Oh I know maybe a Nina app or somthing

[harsh matrix]

My laptop kicks me off of the network constantly though

It's really stupid

[vapid patio]

Yeah no it’s silly and like I said… asiair got it down

I can connect to it from my front yard if it is in the back

[harsh matrix]

I think its down to the hardware they use to broadcast the signal on the air

PC's tend to have really crappy network range unless they are purpose built for it.

That is the only downside

[vapid patio]

Silly

[harsh matrix]

You could probably get a beefy network extender and plug it into one of the USB ports on the mini PC and then you're down a USB port which is not cool.

[vapid patio]

I already do that

@harsh matrix Now that I switched tripods you think I’m gonna have to change some settings

[harsh matrix]

Possibly since the oscillations could have tricked PPEC into thinking they were periodic error and not something external

You already need to change the period for PPEC to what I said last night if you havent already

[vapid patio]

I did

It was only off by 2s haha

It says my RA osc is 0.60?

It’s red so that’s probably bad

Uhhh

[harsh matrix]

Looks like it is correcting way too much now

PPEC probably needs to reset or be reset

[vapid patio]

Like fully reset

[harsh matrix]

And you can probably drop the reactive weight by a lot

[harsh matrix]

Yeah

[vapid patio]

Ok

[harsh matrix]

You can do that by swapping off of that to something else

Letting it run for a sec

And then switching it back to PPEC

[vapid patio]

Ok

[harsh matrix]

It should retain the period length etc.

[vapid patio]

Yeah

So is it over correcting a good thing? Showing maybe it was struggling?

[harsh matrix]

Over correcting means that its freaking out over nothing basically

Its correcting more than is necessary to keep the stars still

You can increase the min mo too to drop the frequency of the RA corrections if needed.

Increasing exposure time can help smooth out the graph too

Cause rn thats exhibiting normal harmonic behavior lol

[vapid patio]

No I’m telling you when I put it too 1s it can’t get back up

[harsh matrix]

Its super twitchy meaning nothing is holding it back now

[vapid patio]

Same for 1.5 and 2

[harsh matrix]

Oh really?

[vapid patio]

Yeah I have no clue why

[harsh matrix]

Could still be the periodic error screwing with the software

If you have already reset PPEC, id drop the predictive weight back down to 50 for a bit as well

[vapid patio]

Ok done

[harsh matrix]

I guess the Juwei is one of the ones you need 0.5s exposures for lol

Thats not unusual for harmonics

[vapid patio]

Why do you think?

[harsh matrix]

My AM5N acts like a normal German equatorial

[harsh matrix]

The torque of the drives

These things produce a butt load of torque which can cause the twitchy guide response like in the picture above.

They're almost too powerful for their own good and PHD2 has no clue what its doing with them

Considering PHD2 was designed for use with GEM mounts.

[vapid patio]

Is there any better guide software than phd2?

[harsh matrix]

I dunno

[vapid patio]

Let me research

Would be fun to try

[harsh matrix]

Supposedly metaguide is crazy good but I have no idea if that works with Nina or not and I dont really want to change what is working for me.

[vapid patio]

Yeah fair

Dude it’s like for the first minute is going great getting lower than it starts to over correcting

[harsh matrix]

Yuppers

Now is when you need to find the middle ground

[vapid patio]

How

[harsh matrix]

It needs to be correcting near constantly but not over doing it like it is.

[vapid patio]

It stays in 70

[harsh matrix]

Dropping the reactive weight and tweaking the predictive weight until something works.

[vapid patio]

Ok

[harsh matrix]

There's not really a one and done rule to this

[vapid patio]

I will go by 5s

True true

It’s down to .65 now

[harsh matrix]

Fortunately twitchiness is a good thing because it means that the stability of the tripod is not a problem now.

Dec is chilling right?

[vapid patio]

Yep at 35

Haven’t even moved from 35 lol

Uh oh dude

Like it goes fine for awhile then starts over correcting then going back down

But no big dips

[harsh matrix]

May be time to increase the predictive weight then

[vapid patio]

Screw it im trying meta guide

[harsh matrix]

I dont have a clue how to use it for guiding so you're on your own.

[vapid patio]

META GUIDE USES VIDEO

[vapid patio]

I will just try it’s fineeee

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix I gave up nvm

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix You imaging tonight?

[harsh matrix]

no im clouded out

[vapid patio]

Ahh ok

Look at my settings and let Me know if anything looks weird

[harsh matrix]

looks fine to me

[vapid patio]

Dang it

I can’t really get better than 0.70 to 0.90

[harsh matrix]

have you changed the reactive weight at all?

that's still the same as i saw last

[vapid patio]

I lowed both my min move to 0.15 and it dropped

I haven’t

[harsh matrix]

BRUH

i told you to play with that a while ago

lower that by quite a bit and leave it, see what it does

[vapid patio]

How much

[harsh matrix]

cause that is still over correcting

idk

drop it to like 40

[vapid patio]

Ok

@harsh matrix Didnt help

Wait

Honestly idk why my dec is higher now

It was staying strong at 0.34 now its at 0.35

[harsh matrix]

brother

it's going to vary throughout the night

a difference of 0.01 isnt the end of the world

[harsh matrix]

then drop it to 20

[vapid patio]

I MEANT 0.50 MY BAD

[harsh matrix]

sometimes having the hysteresis too high can cause that

too low a minmo will cause the dec to do more than it has to

the aggression is probably too high too imo

[vapid patio]

Bru

That could be pe?

Its down

[harsh matrix]

increase the reactive weight to 30 now

[harsh matrix]

possibly

[vapid patio]

Wait one sec for that blip to leave

[harsh matrix]

increase the predictive to 70 too

[vapid patio]

Ok

It keeps dipping down and taking forever to come up

[harsh matrix]

i dont really know what that means tbh

[vapid patio]

I take that back

Like going down to -4x and slowing coming up to 0

[harsh matrix]

o

that means that the reactive weight isnt high enough

[vapid patio]

Ok

[vapid patio]

Bubble

[harsh matrix]

that's a much better looking graph holy

[vapid patio]

It’s chilling at 0.50 to 0.60

I think that is the limit of this mount

Remember last night 😭 I mean this looks so much better

Clouds just ruined my time 😔

[harsh matrix]

hell yeah

any deviations now are probably due to passing clouds, high clouds, or seeing now

which is a much better place to be in

i told you the tripod was THAT BAD

[vapid patio]

I agree it is soooooo bad out rn

[vapid patio]

My guide chart looked like a wave

Well thanks for telling me I would have no clue without you saying somthing

Other event of tonight

[tight lodge]

@harsh matrix How do I get the guide log history?

[harsh matrix]

documents folder on your PC

PHD2logs or something

[tight lodge]

Aye, thanks

[vapid patio]

Giggdy

[tight lodge]

Time to get disappointed. Imma just have a smoke before

[vapid patio]

Chilling at 0.50-.65 seeing is limiting me I'm positive

[vapid patio]

Why disappointed

[tight lodge]

Because I will see how the tripod behaves like a noodle

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/ash-baby-gif-5920695394641505768

Ohhh ok

Got it on my cgem tripod and its just fine

First sub 🙏

Yeah stars are hella soft but circles ✅

[tight lodge]

tis disappointment @harsh matrix ?

idk what i'm looking for anyways XD

[vapid patio]

Its funny how we both come to vel for info and options haha

[tight lodge]

Probably not so funny for him XD

[vapid patio]

Aye well I mean he's smart 🤷‍♂️ why learn it if he can tell you 😂

[harsh matrix]

could be quite a bit better

[tight lodge]

t be honest yes\

i need to mess around with PHD2

i can send you the log file if you want to dissapoint me even more XD

i'm a master of PA

[vapid patio]

Oh yeah

[harsh matrix]

Sheesh

Thats the good stuff

[vapid patio]

I hope these settings apply to different nights

Have you had that problem?

[harsh matrix]

Of course

They should carry over

[vapid patio]

Like if I were to tear down my setup and setup somewhere else will it work the same?

[harsh matrix]

Yeah

[vapid patio]

Ok good

I mean the mount is probably ever coming off the tripod

[harsh matrix]

The only thing you may have to do is recalibrate your guiding if rotation changed or something and thats it.

[vapid patio]

Ok yeah sounds about right

@harsh matrix Should I stay out for first meridian flip?

I wanna go to sleep 😔

[harsh matrix]

holy

[harsh matrix]

when is the flip supposed to happen?

[vapid patio]

40 minutes 🫩

[harsh matrix]

fudge

[vapid patio]

It’s 3:40 am 😂

Better safe than see thoundas of dollars on the ground

[harsh matrix]

i doubt that, unless you got the settings in NINA and onstep already configured, it will do it successfully

[harsh matrix]

yeah

[vapid patio]

Never messed with onstep stuff

[harsh matrix]

you could try to go to bed and set an alarm to check it in 40 minutes

[vapid patio]

not worth it

@harsh matrix Am I supposed to have flip guiding after meridian flip?

I feel like I heard that somewhere for harmonic moumts

https://tenor.com/view/wildfireuv-gif-26390378

[harsh matrix]

possibly

you're going to have to wait and see though because i dont know if the juwei needs the dec and ra inputs reversed after the meridian or not

[vapid patio]

Let me look it up

Yep you do

[harsh matrix]

well good luck on that

hopefully you can find it

[vapid patio]

I knew where it was 😭

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix To get the pe200 to sit flat have you thought of taking the adapter plate off then putting a nut inside of it? It would be just as if threads were there

[harsh matrix]

Nah I didnt consider it tbh

[vapid patio]

do you think it wound be better? or kinda a if its not broke dont fix it kinda thing

[vapid patio]

Heheheheha

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Since my guide period was 420 I should wait that long for it too chill out?

It’s about 7 minutes

[harsh matrix]

Id say thats a pretty safe bet yeah

Cause once you start a session, PPEC will almost always be lost until it detects the beginning of another loop

[vapid patio]

Ok and like man it’s doing bad tonight

Do you have to recalibrate a couple times for it to be good?

[harsh matrix]

No

[harsh matrix]

Did you change anything between tonight and last night?

[vapid patio]

Only adding a little weight on my mini pc I put a WiFi thing but I have recalibrated it’s not even 1/4ca pound

[harsh matrix]

Did you leave it outside all night and all day?

[vapid patio]

It’s just sitting at 0.60-0.70

[vapid patio]

Yeah but I had a cover over it

[harsh matrix]

Did you check PA?

[vapid patio]

Yeah it’s good

[harsh matrix]

Thats not really bad...

[vapid patio]

Oh

[harsh matrix]

That could be seeing.

[vapid patio]

Well you have a bigger pixel scale I think

What is your scale

[vapid patio]

True

A little blurX never hurt

Up to 0.80 now

[harsh matrix]

See

Sometimes you gotta let it settle down, can take longer than other times

Especially if that was around 30 degrees of altitude when you started

[vapid patio]

Yeah I guess I’m shooting through a lot of atmosphere

[harsh matrix]

when i shot trifid, it was so low the entire time that my guiding was averaging around 0.8" RMS

and the seeing was so bad that it didnt even matter

[harsh matrix]

@frosty shard the Pelican Nebula may make a great infrared target

[tight lodge]

i have the Cygnus wall on my list. Y'all stay away from it

[vapid patio]

I see I see

[tall summit]

Hey fellas, RC6 owner here (still noob). Am I getting a good fwhm, is there a need/room to chase finer collimation?

Guiding was as good as it gets for my gear (cg4 mount 30mm 120mm scope) in between 0.4-0.8

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Yayy new rc user

[vapid patio]

120mm scope on a rc?

How do people get away with this 😭

[tall summit]

Yep)

[vapid patio]

Hard to tell collimation with asiair not gonna lie. Just unfocus your stars and send a photo that will give a good judgement on how good your collimation is

Atleast I hope

[tall summit]

Hang on i'll grab a sub

But is my fwhm number good?

[vapid patio]

I’m pretty sure that’s seeing and your gear dependent

It can flux depending on seeing

[tight lodge]

Is that the HFR or FWHM?

[harsh matrix]

The value in arc seconds should be the FWHM

[harsh matrix]

Can't really see the star shapes but the FWHM is good.

[tight lodge]

only if it would have been clear. Check out this seeing

[harsh matrix]

stars look good imo

[tall summit]

whew, tnx

I've been through the obligatory collimation ordeal with that thing, and came out victorious)

[tall summit]

my hangover brain cannot understand this chart at the moment, i'll come back to this)

[tight lodge]

i forgot the header XD

[tall summit]

lolol

[harsh matrix]

Bro wtf

Cheater

[tight lodge]

What?

I never cheat

[harsh matrix]

Well clearly you do

You hacked the atmosphere

[tight lodge]

Next, i need to hack the clouds

[harsh matrix]

True

[tight lodge]

Sadly, Tom ain't telling me the truth

[harsh matrix]

I think im going to swap back to the 533 shortly to get some NIR data on the Trifid neb

Cause it looks really cool in NIR

[tight lodge]

Isn't Trifid completely transparent in NIR?

[vapid patio]

Yeah was abt to say

[tight lodge]

Also, i gotta ask you something. i want to replace my blue filter with a Calcium K filter. so i get NIR, G, UV. What are you thinking? good or bad idea XD

[harsh matrix]

not really

it's not until the micron level

between about 700 nm and 1000 nm it looks very interesting

another 100 or so stars appear too

[tight lodge]

Still waiting on clear weather so i can start my first NIR project

[harsh matrix]

@frosty shard did you see this photo from a club member i put in BB last night?

[frosty shard]

Whoa

[harsh matrix]

Dude was using a 20" ASA w/ a QHY 600M from the exact same location I shot it from

[frosty shard]

ASA?

[harsh matrix]

Yeah I dont know exactly what kind of scope it is but think of it sort of like a CDK

I think he clipped the background to black too

[frosty shard]

I haven't been paying close attention to the server but I'm just about to fly home from JuliaCon

[tight lodge]

why do i feel like i can pull a sharper image than that?

[harsh matrix]

Because I pulled a sharper image than that 💀

And i tried way less hard with much cheaper gear

[tight lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-gif-2813086212540319582

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

I was gonna say like it doesn’t look that great or sharp 😭

This is when I still had a color cam on a full moon night 30mins 😭

[harsh matrix]

@vapid patio this is a pretty typical start to a session for me

So freaking out initially is not really going to help you.

[frosty shard]

Concurring here, this is also what my guiding looks like at first

I've thought about making high quality name badges for when I do sidewalk astronomy

[tight lodge]

I'd make it like Hi, I'm Brandon. Don't touch my telescope

[frosty shard]

No, people not touching my telescope is the problem!

I tell people explicitly that they can come and have a look through it and they just don't

Not because they're not interested

But because they don't want to break my telescope

I'm glad I live in a place where people are too cautious rather than disrespectful, but it is an annoyance sometimes

[vapid patio]

Ok yeah fair fair

[tight lodge]

Also, never freak out about guiding. The RMS is average over time. You telescope can actually guide quite perfectly and show you arcseconds of RMS error.

[vapid patio]

Huh

How

Oh also @harsh matrix Is it ok to collimate on a not great seeing night?

Or only on like perfect nights

[harsh matrix]

that is really up to you to decide if you can tell what adjustments do or do not need to be made

[vapid patio]

And you use meta guide?

[harsh matrix]

i use metaguide on bad nights because it can give you an averaged idea of your focused star and the associated coma

it can work around the seeing

[vapid patio]

Hmm ok and if not what do you use?

Just an unfocused star?

[harsh matrix]

an un focused star and live view in sharpcap

[vapid patio]

Sharp cap?

Why

[frosty shard]

I actually do something slightly different: collimating on windy nights

Since I don't need a guider to collimate

[harsh matrix]

to get immediate feedback about what my adjustments do to no only the star i want to use on axis but the rest of the field

[vapid patio]

You can loop exps in Nina? Same thing?

[harsh matrix]

doing it in nina would induce a delay on everything, and slewing your on axis star back to center after an adjustment would be a royal pain

[vapid patio]

Fair

Ok so I need to get sharpcap?

Only for collimation tho

[harsh matrix]

yeah you can for sure

you dont need the subscription service to use live view fortunately

that's supported natively with the drivers of the camera you have i believe, or should be

what model of the 585 mono did you get again?

im drawing a blank

[vapid patio]

Asi585mm pro

So zwo

[harsh matrix]

yeah ZWO supports the live view without doing anything special

[frosty shard]

I think this turned out okay

[vapid patio]

Ok sick

And also I wanted to ask if I got a 8” newt would it have the same resolving power as a 8” rc?

I don’t want all the fl that comes with the rc design with my tiny sensor

So a newt would let me get a bigger scope but same ish fl

[frosty shard]

Yup it's all down to aperture

[vapid patio]

And newts are alooooot cheaper

[harsh matrix]

It would but keeping it nearly as sharp will be a pain imo

But if you think you are up to the challenge, you are welcome to try

[vapid patio]

Fair rc do hold collimation forever “so I’ve heard”

I’m thinking awhile in the future

I haven’t even really used my rc the more I think about it 😭

Got my guiding and flexture down

All I need is a good collimation and I'm good to go

[frosty shard]

Yeah with a Newt you'll need a coma corrector to take advantage of wider fields

And I have no idea how well those work in the NIR, if you want to image in that band

I wouldn't trust them for UV

[harsh matrix]

Yuppers

[harsh matrix]

I havent had to make any serious collimation adjustments since May

The last bit of collimation I did was 2 weeks ago, and it was turning one screw on the secondary mirror about an eighth of a turn

And that only happened because of the difference between my apertura reducer and the Apex-L

That wasn't even due to the scope moving on its own

[vapid patio]

Yeah Ive reduced and before that it hasn't been collimated in over a year 🥴

[harsh matrix]

Holy cow

[vapid patio]

I looked at my subs and my stars are kinda triangles

What does that tell you

[harsh matrix]

Same sort of thing my RC6 did regularly

That tells me there may be some combination of collimation error, possible reducer aberrations, and astigmatism induced by the weight on your focuser being transmitted into the primary mirror.

I havent had triangular stars since going to the RC8 though

[vapid patio]

Uh oh

And how do I fix the weight on focuser

That's kinda impossible

[vapid patio]

I mean I doubt reducer its a good one I think

[harsh matrix]

Bingo

You dont

You have to live with it unless you upgrade to a bigger RC

[harsh matrix]

It may or may not be, its not guaranteed to be the reducer that is at fault

[vapid patio]

Wow that's a big design flaw

I guess because of how its mounted on the primary mirror

Well fist step is collimation we will see then

[harsh matrix]

yes

it's manageable and not a huge deal at the end of the day, but it is incredibly annoying

[vapid patio]

As long as its sharp i don't care about the stars bluX can fix star sharp

Does it affect actual sharpness?

[harsh matrix]

yes

[harsh matrix]

and yes

but seeing will arguably be a bigger problem

i cant actually sample the 0.719"/px my sampling rate is because of it (I think) but if i were to fix it, i may be able to reach that potential

[vapid patio]

Wow rcs are a bigger pain than I thought

[harsh matrix]

there's also the possibility that the mirrors arent within the wavefront error necessary to be capable of that kind of resolution since these are budget RC's made at a cheap price in China

[vapid patio]

Budget? Mine maybe

[harsh matrix]

this particular point goes for the truss tubes too

[vapid patio]

Damn

[harsh matrix]

they certainly can be

these closed tube ones were a design disaster

[vapid patio]

I might still get a newt smh

[harsh matrix]

this is why there are folks out there (like me) who want more producers to enter the market, to give GSO a run for their money

i still like my results from the RC's more than what ive been able to get out of newts and fracs though

[vapid patio]

Yeah they are great

[harsh matrix]

plus i get the reach i want, and/or the focal ratio i want without the field sharpness being a royal pain to sort out

[vapid patio]

Fair

[harsh matrix]

in general, the central obstruction i believe is a bigger issue for the RC6's than the coupled primary and focuser thing

it's not until the 8 or the 10" when it becomes a serious issue

the CO on my 6 was by far the more annoying thing to deal with

[vapid patio]

Do I have some

Wait co?

[harsh matrix]

central obstruction

it's 57% of the total aperture on the 6

that's why the 6 is so darn slow

[vapid patio]

DAMN

[vapid patio]

That's like a 3.5 inch refractor

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

So do I have th resolving power of a 3.5 inch scope?

Or still a 6”

[harsh matrix]

still a 6"

[vapid patio]

Oh ok just slow I guess

[harsh matrix]

yes

that's the tradeoff of the 6

[vapid patio]

Not a big deal after reduced

[harsh matrix]

correct

[vapid patio]

F/5.7 for me

[harsh matrix]

progress

raw

[vapid patio]

Zaaaamm

[harsh matrix]

an area with fainter signal

[vapid patio]

So what do you think I should do?

Just still rock my 6” or do somthing else?

[vapid patio]

Lets compare to my 2hr with 533 and crappy narrowband filters

Wait this is super compressed

Send me your png I wanna compare in pix

[vapid patio]

Good thing we had the same pixel size so it’s a good comparison

[harsh matrix]

true

[harsh matrix]

skill issue of horrific proportions

my blue filter offset wasnt set accurately enough for my seeing here at home so i effectively induced chromatic aberration on my data

that's awful

[vapid patio]

Filter offset of CA and despair

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix

collimation?

like that everywhere

@tight lodge

[frosty shard]

Yeah if all the stars are consistently comatic in the same direction, it's a collimation issue

[vapid patio]

ok yeah all the same way

[harsh matrix]

Yeah your optical axis is off to the right

If you think about moving the stars to the right not the left that is the sort of adjustment you need to make to the secondary mirror to correct that.

To correct coma, you want to move the stars in the opposite direction of where they look "most focused" aka the centroid of the stars.

[vapid patio]

Ok yeah so I need to move it left

[harsh matrix]

no

down to the right

not the left

the stars look like arrows pointing up to the left

makes you think you need to "move" them up to that direction but actually that will dig you into a deep hole

bruh im tired and im mixing up these directions

gotta move the stars in the opposite direction of where the comatic shape is pointing

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/monster-versus-vs-alien-monster-vs-alien-gif-16037253809360562033

[vapid patio]

So down and right?

[harsh matrix]

correct

not down by much though

[vapid patio]

Noted

[harsh matrix]

that particular part is a very small adjustment

the rightward motion is what you will adjust most

[vapid patio]

And I have to do it in sharpcap?

[harsh matrix]

you can do it whatever way that you want but i prefer sharpcap

you can use nina to center a very bright star, say Vega, go to sharpcap, use the reticle feature to pull up one of the x reticles, after every adjustment return the star to where they meet (in the dead center of the X and this is quite important), and you want to be collimating roughly 100 to 300 steps out of focus

going too far into focus and too far out are both useful for different reasons

what you are looking for is still sort of a less pronounced version of the comatic shape

there is something called the poisson dot that shows up in the middle of the shadow of the secondary mirror

[vapid patio]

Yeah the little circle in a unfocused star

[harsh matrix]

that will always be in the same place as the centroid of the star, and when the secondary is out of collimation, that poisson dot will not be centered

it will be offset

you need to correct it in whatever direction will resolve the misplacement (as a little hint for you in this case down to the right, and the dot will be biased mostly to the left but also up a tad)

[vapid patio]

Noted noted

I will screen shot thank you

Can't be too too hard pshh

[harsh matrix]

This is more or less what you should expect to see once you're in collimation

Aka a defocused star field.

Btw sometimes in sharpcap it helps a lot to lower the gain as much as possible and use 100 to 150 ms exposures to average out the seeing.

To fast an exposure can make it a royal pain to tell wtf is going on.

Also you can see the nice donut of death in that third picture

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Ok good to know

Your name is Shawn?

[vapid patio]

YOUR GUIDING

[harsh matrix]

I was not

That was from before I defocused them

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[frosty shard]

No

IC 4665 (Summer Beehive) is a good starfield for collimation (in Ophiuchus)

[vapid patio]

No I mean its still great guiding

How far back does it look?

[vapid patio]

[harsh matrix]

You mean focus wise?

[vapid patio]

Like how far back does your phd2 look back and tell you your rms

[harsh matrix]

The entire session in that case

[vapid patio]

Oh I never knew that

[harsh matrix]

But the entire session wasnt exactly all that long there

[vapid patio]

Ah

[harsh matrix]

Holy

[vapid patio]

Good?

[vapid patio]

Funny how close our settings are

[harsh matrix]

[river oasis]

The things that light pollution hides from us is insane

[vapid patio]

Wow you looked back 🤣

[river oasis]

Hm?

[vapid patio]

Just such an old post

[river oasis]

It was an accident I guess

My screen started at the top..

Didn't realize how far it was till I scrolled instead of tapping to zoom down here

[frosty shard]

Garbage process, I barely have any S-II data and I overcooked the deconvolution, but here

[frosty shard]

I was gonna image NGC 7331 but then I saw cirrus overhead and lightning strikes so I made like a banana and split

Beat the rain easily though, so no water problems

I have no idea why it looks washed out on some applications but not others

probably some sort of color management thing Windows is screwing up, but I'm not sure which of the applications is accurate and which ones aren't

[proven coyote]

Also depends on how its saving the color space, some programs handle color data differently

[frosty shard]

Does this work better...

Not really...

These don't look any different...

Left is the Display P3 gamut I use for my processing, right is "converted" to sRGB but I don't see a difference

[tight lodge]

The one on the right appears to be a hair brighter.

[harsh matrix]

jfc

[tight lodge]

Vel, I have a question about your RC
You're using an OAG to guide, right?

When the OAG goes out of focus, the stars seen by the guidecam split as well?

[frosty shard]

dOeS tHiS lOoK dIfFeReNt

[frosty shard]

They do

[tight lodge]

Hmm I can't tell. I'm actually colorblind

[tight lodge]

Oh, so it's not just my newtonian

[harsh matrix]

Yeah

it looks like that on all of my scopes, including my redcat

it's because an OAG is typically located at the very edge of the image circle of your telescope

the star looks sliced off because what you are seeing is effectively light cutoff, or an extreme form of vignetting manifesting itself in the shape of the stars themselves according to your guide camera

[tight lodge]

Also, I had this dumb idea to sync the offset in focus between the OAG an maincam by moving the OAG behind the EFW, Between the main cam and EFW basically

[frosty shard]

Wait really?

Do you know what kind

[tight lodge]

I'm just messing with you mate😂

[frosty shard]

Well something like 1 in 20 men have some type of red/green color blindness

So HSO and SHO could be confused with each other

[brisk swift]

people who can't see colour , can they resolve more? I mean they seeing in mono

[tight lodge]

I was playing around with a software that allows me to see different color spectrums and such.

[tight lodge]

They don't see in mono

[brisk swift]

Ik

[tight lodge]

Also, I simulated what it would look like if you could only see the Hydrogen spectrum

[frosty shard]

Color blind people can sometimes see past camouflage more easily

[river oasis]

Thats cool

[harsh matrix]

Whooptie challenged me to beat the sharpness of his Pelican nebula

so tonight, with some of the best seeing ive see forecasted in a while, i shot SHO, 10 minute subs, all night long on this thing

zoomed in about 50% here, no blurx, just nuked the noise

The seeing tomorrow is going to be even better

[harsh matrix]

[tight lodge]

STOP IT!!!

I can't afford an RC right now

[proven coyote]

Noot gang

[tight lodge]

You know what's even worse? I have better seeing than Vel

[harsh matrix]

processed it super lazily and boomer style

[proven coyote]

Man when you get a rc your really going to be cooking

[harsh matrix]

it's pretty crap because this was minimum effort

[proven coyote]

Boomer style??

[harsh matrix]

[harsh matrix]

yeah

like id call this project done and move on now if i was a boomer

that's how carelessly i processed it

[proven coyote]

Ahhh okay

[harsh matrix]

cause i want to go bed

[tight lodge]

Oversaturated HOO is boomer style

[proven coyote]

Ahhh so me 😅

[tight lodge]

I'm not saying that is you, but you get my point. I can give you an example

[proven coyote]

Ohhhhh

[tight lodge]

Yeah, this is boomer style

[frosty shard]

With some actual care this could be a fire process

[tight lodge]

I call this palette HaHaHa, because that's all i had to work with. so i decided to go all the way in and make it an example to what i shouldn't do

[vapid patio]

https://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/item/415774-gso-10-f4-newtonian-carbon-fiber-truss-ota

@tight lodge

@harsh matrix whats the flaw of Newtonians

[harsh matrix]

coma

[vapid patio]

because rcs are pissing me off

[vapid patio]

oh thats it

[harsh matrix]

and they require coma correctors

[vapid patio]

but thats it/ no like flexture? or weird collimation

[harsh matrix]

collimating the secondary on an f/5 or faster newt is a nightmare

if the focuser is crap, it has to be replaced

the focuser alone can be the source of tons of problems

like flexture, sometimes they need to be collimated so you can even collimate the newt

the primary mirror cells can often be equipped with inadequate springs resulting in frequent loss of collimation

by frequent, literally multiple times a night to every day

they leak light through the back of the primary mirror unless the rear is sealed off by some miracle

most newtonians are sold with inadequate spider veins as well, which means you cant collimate the secondary well, and their frail build can mean that they are easy to twist, resulting in ugly star spikes and more diffraction

stray light becomes a nightmare on a newt, especially because most newts, with the exception of very high end custom built ones from europe, do not come with light baffling

most of these problems go away with a high end custom build newt like an ONTC from Europe but those will cost you out the nose and are not worth it for the average person

on the lower end, anything in your range will require heavy modification for them not to be a nightmare to use

with a newt, you must pick your poison because there is no middle ground.