Ritchey–Chrétien enjoyers thread

[frosty shard]

Nope, Wave 150i

[vapid patio]

ok cool cool;

[frosty shard]

And I'm using a Player One Xena-M, Askar OAG, and PHD2 for software

[tight lodge]

@harsh matrix Did you started to experience some kind of uneven vignetting in your rig?

[harsh matrix]

the nature of my vignetting is pretty uneven to begin with but the vignette doesnt move around

[tight lodge]

https://youtu.be/nHuLrYe-oik?si=I81jT8mATdHaArkT
Yesterday I stumbled upon this

[harsh matrix]

yeah

mine doesnt qualify for that

the baffle tube is way too long for that flaw to affect this one

[tight lodge]

Hmmmm...

Well, I guess imma have to buy an RC first, gut it, and then see if I can figure out what the problem is

[harsh matrix]

the vignette is caused by my reducer btw

it's not because of the scope

and any RC larger than the 6" will have a more than adequate baffle tube now

[tight lodge]

Time to get rid of the reducer hehehehe

[harsh matrix]

i fixed the issue i was having with the flats too if that's what you were asking

had nothing to do with the scope itself or the reducer

[tight lodge]

What was it

[harsh matrix]

as far as i can tell, it was caused by a very obscure light leak

something that didnt affect the rig at night, not even in my bortle 9 billion back yard

but will affect it in a high intensity light environment

say the day time

or a brightly lit room

[tight lodge]

I guessing the sky brightness drowned the light leak

[harsh matrix]

i dont think there was enough ambient light to leak in to this particular leak

i think it was caused solely during the day time

because i take sky flats with this rig, primarily

when i took them inside, it was still in some daylight but it was also in a well lit room, so the leak would have affected the flats differently but in a detectable manner

[tight lodge]

Gemini Astro has some really good deals on 200mm automatic flat pannels

[harsh matrix]

i think the interface between the OAG and the 5mm spacer plate for the OAG or the OAG to the filter wheel is at fault

i taped over both aspect before i left for the bortle 3 site

that was the only variable that changed between the last time i took flats and now

[harsh matrix]

i would really not mind something like that rn

plus i need a flat panel if i want to send this thing remote

[tight lodge]

There you go

Idk exactly. You need to measure the diameter of your tube. My 130PDS needs a 150mm pannel

[harsh matrix]

mine probably needs 240 tbh

[tight lodge]

230$

Tbh... that's a steal

[harsh matrix]

compared to what most cost, yeah

[tight lodge]

Wanderer Astro? That thing will set you beck more than the price of your telescope😂

I use one for my 130PDS and tbh, they work amazingly.

You can't unfortunately set how far they open.

[harsh matrix]

big WIP lol

[vapid patio]

Dangggg

[harsh matrix]

bg is cooked because of a bad gradient extraction

got a better one this time

looks better to my eye anyway

[vapid patio]

Tbh I can’t tell

[harsh matrix]

look around the edges as well as that left side

on my original image the dark dust on the right side was green while the dark dust on the left was more blue/magenta in color

it looked awful and it was a pain to fix

[harsh matrix]

hell yeah man

you have the 220 now right?

[vapid patio]

Wait I see it now

[vapid patio]

Yes sir so oag is a breeze

[harsh matrix]

okay that should give you sharper images than i ever got with my RC6 lol

assuming you get the guiding dialed in very well

and assuming the reducer you have doesnt create more problems

[vapid patio]

And I feel like I already knocked it out of the part with my m51 for a 6”

[vapid patio]

It’s pretty good and well back up I bet it’s fine

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix How in the world can I tell if it is in balance

Like HOW

I did need a counter weight smh smh

[harsh matrix]

you dont

you dont really need to balance it on a harmonic but it does help

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/cummins-gif-12535975135255283466

Even my ra?

[harsh matrix]

generally your scope will be balanced in dec with the dovetail quite far up the saddle

[harsh matrix]

even your RA

[vapid patio]

Can I see a photo of your glorious rig

[harsh matrix]

i ran my RC6 without a counterweight on the RA for a long time

[vapid patio]

Weird

[vapid patio]

Juweis are different

It can’t get it back up without

[harsh matrix]

Ruh roh

Sounds like you need to do some math

[vapid patio]

🫩

[harsh matrix]

James Lamb on YouTube does some calculations for using a counterweight on the AM5N

Thats how you can determine the right place for a counterweight, assuming you have a counterweight bar.

[vapid patio]

Yeah I do have it

[harsh matrix]

how much does that counterweight weigh?

[vapid patio]

3 1/2 pounds

@harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

oh you gonna need more than that buddy

[vapid patio]

Ok 5 pounds then

But it says it can do 28 withought a weight

[harsh matrix]

so then why cant it get back up if you dont use a counterweight on the RA?

[vapid patio]

I'm saying The same thing

[harsh matrix]

B e R U h

[vapid patio]

It makes a sound but doesn't move icjuet tried again

It works with this 1.5 pound counterweight all the way down lol

[harsh matrix]

if that is enough to make it move then ig it works

maybe take the 3 + 1/2 and put it all the way down

or use one of the CGEM ones

[vapid patio]

Hell no those are like 15 pounds

[vapid patio]

I mean it moves it moves

And it always vibrates a little right?

[vapid patio]

It really makes no difference where you put it tbh

[harsh matrix]

i have no idea

my am5n does not vibrate or rattle or anything

[vapid patio]

I mean only when slewing

[harsh matrix]

nah mine doesnt vibrate much at all

there's a very subtle vibration but it's super low frequency

[vapid patio]

Mines high

Whatever we will see tonight

And @harsh matrix So your saying I could have it soooo back heavy and it won't make a difference?

[tight lodge]

My counterweights sum up to 22lb😂

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Im outside doing phd2 if you would like to give some tips

[harsh matrix]

no

im saying it's already so back heavy that you may not even be able to balance it with as forward in the saddle as possible

[harsh matrix]

just follow what i told you earlier

and last night

[vapid patio]

Uhhh

[harsh matrix]

guide exposure times could be anywhere between 0.5s and 2 s

that's about what's left to tell you

i told you everything else

[vapid patio]

Do you keep the agr default and all the other settings

[harsh matrix]

i put aggression at 45 for the dec, pred weight on RA to 70 and react weight to 55

[vapid patio]

Ok I will play around with it thank you

[harsh matrix]

but those will vary depending on how unbalanced your payload is

mine is quite balanced, not perfect, but i dont need to go higher and lower is insufficient

[vapid patio]

Hmm ok I see

[harsh matrix]

this is why RC telescopes are the best scopes on the market

[tight lodge]

Oh COME ON!

[proven coyote]

That's it I have made up my mind the heck with the new 2" focuser for the Quattro im getting a rc

[harsh matrix]

LMAO

I'm sorry

[proven coyote]

Why sorry

[harsh matrix]

more money to spend

😭

[proven coyote]

Ehh I got a great job im not worried

[harsh matrix]

ayo

if you are able to iron one out to the extent that i have, you will never look back

trust me

[proven coyote]

Yeah ill be honest I know vary little about rc telescope I never had a mount that could handle one till now so im looking forward I like the tinkering aspect

[tight lodge]

Fyi, I might have just lost a friend

He said he wants to sell his Q150P for a 103Apo

He's a dead man to me

[proven coyote]

Please tell me your joking, like some sick twisted joke, why the switch

[tight lodge]

I'm not joking. He said that he doesn't like that he has to colimate before each session and that a frac will give him sharper images

[harsh matrix]

what is wrong with him

[harsh matrix]

he's sort of not wrong about that

but if he is collimating before each session, it sounds like it's bone stock

in which case, it's a no brainer that he's unhappy with it

[proven coyote]

I'll be waiting for the "i wasted so much money on this frac"

[tight lodge]

I kinda want to buy it from him. Because he has the Backyard Universe upgrade installed

He sells it for 400€

[proven coyote]

Oh god

[harsh matrix]

wait are you kidding?

he collimates every session and owns THAT

?

[tight lodge]

He scared of the locking screws maybe

[proven coyote]

The disappointment he is going to have might make him quit the hobby like wtf

[tight lodge]

Bro, I started with a 70ED, and then I bought the 130PDS because I wanted to see how a newtonian telescope behaves. No research nothing. First time I used it I didn't even had a CC installed and already it clapped my 70ED in sharpness

It's almost 4 years ever since and the 70ED didn't see the light of the day . It keeps collecting dust

[proven coyote]

Svbony 503 70ed 👀

[tight lodge]

TS-Optics 70ED

[proven coyote]

Ahhh okay yeah because looking back after I upgraded i dont know how I was happy with any of those results

[tight lodge]

70ED + EOS 2000Da vs 130PDS + P1 Uranus M Pro

[proven coyote]

Night and day

[harsh matrix]

holy andromeda 👀

am i seeing this right?

[proven coyote]

The core

[harsh matrix]

looks like 2 super faint arms of dust spiraling into the core

up to the right and down to the left

one moving "away" from the camera (right) and "toward" the camera (left)

[proven coyote]

Oh I see it niw

[harsh matrix]

this is why i wanted to shoot M31 with this thing

[tight lodge]

Do it in Hα please 🙏 😭

[harsh matrix]

i want to look for interesting little details everyone else will miss

[harsh matrix]

i dont think i will with the RC but i want to with the quattro

where f/4 means i can get something in a reasonable amount of time

f/5.12 is very fast but not fast enough in my backyard

NGC 206

[tight lodge]

Imma try it in Ha with the 130PDS whenever I get a chance

[harsh matrix]

looks pretty pathetic thanks to the vignette screwing up the STF

[harsh matrix]

do it

the ha structure is sick

[harsh matrix]

yeahhhhhh

i didnt even see this sort of stuff in hubble's image because the core is so fing bright

[tight lodge]

Especially in the core

[harsh matrix]

that's how ive felt ever since i moved on from my svbony sv503 102ed

[harsh matrix]

yuppers

[tight lodge]

I've seen this SHO one a while ago and I have to try it

[harsh matrix]

it's interesting how the ocean of stars just disappears in narrowband

[proven coyote]

That looks kinda cool not going to lie

[tight lodge]

Right? It just looks... strange. Like a starless nightsky

[harsh matrix]

bruh i did see that right

that's really cool

wait so i used a semi old flat to calibrate this sub

and in 3 minutes in bortle 8, you can see almost the entire galaxy

[tight lodge]

Question. When I will image Andromeda should I focus on one of the arms or the core

I can't fit the whole thing in my FOV

[harsh matrix]

i personally think framing it to fit NGC 206 and the core is the best way

👀

[tight lodge]

I can squeeze M32 as well

[harsh matrix]

ive already spotted several globs in andromeda too

this is my favorite part

[tight lodge]

If I manage to pull that image, definitely I will get a bot of hate for not including the whole galaxy

[harsh matrix]

oh absolutely

im definitely tempted to go deep on M31 with the RC8... ngl.

i think id like to shoot it all night with the RC from the bortle 3 site though

i hate shooting broadband from home now 😭

[tight lodge]

Maybe broadband with the RC8

And use the Quattro for NB

[harsh matrix]

hmmmmmmmm

my quattro honestly isnt as sharp as my rc

but tbf, that was with the secondary all wonky, ive since fixed it more than how fixed it was before

[tight lodge]

I was giving an idea. Since the Quattro is much faster, that might allow you to get some decent NB data

[harsh matrix]

ik

it's going to give me strong signal for sure

but it will be soft...

the resolution wont be as good either imo

[tight lodge]

But, as something to bridge the gap untilbyou get the same data from the RC, I think it will do

[blissful marlin]

You can even see them with a redcat

[tight lodge]

Reflector supremacy moment

[blissful marlin]

never mind. They are barely visible

[tight lodge]

I don't think I will upgrade from the 585 for a while

[tight lodge]

@harsh matrix I think this framing is wide enough. The Ring nebula is somewhere in there

[ripe crystal]

Poor white dwarf

[tight lodge]

Well, I got complains that my framing is like a jail. So, I imaged something that fits the frame

[ripe crystal]

lol

but

is the white dwarf not resolved?

[harsh matrix]

yeah

[harsh matrix]

what's funny is my 5" newt that wasnt even collimated resolved the white dwarf in like no exposure time

[ripe crystal]

Yeah

Thats why im thinking it was lost in processing

[harsh matrix]

5 and a half hours of H-alpha, 2x drizzled, 0.6x drop shrink

no blurx

btw if you want to get really technical, there are objects the size of 1 arc second resolved in my image

possibly smaller idk, the seti astro what's in my image script doesnt get more precise than that afaik

@vapid patio new data wen?

[vapid patio]

Well maybe tonight I couldn't get my rms below 1.00 last night

And I wasn't able to use my 220 as it could not reach focus but my 120 could

[harsh matrix]

[harsh matrix]

Uhhhhhhh

Why?

Did it need to go in or out?

[vapid patio]

Sensor us farther back soooo barely

I need to go more in

[harsh matrix]

Im assuming in more?

Okay

[vapid patio]

Ywah

[harsh matrix]

Did you take off all of the threaded rings?

[vapid patio]

Yeah ofc

[harsh matrix]

Even the really small thin one?

[vapid patio]

And I think I'm really unbalanced I just don't know how to err

[vapid patio]

Yeah

[harsh matrix]

Hmmmm

You may have to experient with moving the prism up some

[harsh matrix]

In the dec you probably have to get a counterweight or something

RA? Idk lol

[vapid patio]

Like put it on the front of scope

[harsh matrix]

Yeah

[vapid patio]

Both kinda

[vapid patio]

That's no problem done it before

[harsh matrix]

Just somewhere up front until the dec numbers drop and the dec corrections are less twitchy

[vapid patio]

Like where should my filter wheel be in relation to my oag and eaf its like come onnnn

[vapid patio]

Well my dec is at 0.30 its all Ra

Ra is at like 1.30 having huge dips

Like I know its a knock off but it should still do better than my 20 year old cgem

[harsh matrix]

Then your dec sounds fine tbh

I wouldn't touch it

[vapid patio]

Yeah no matter what I change my Ra to any of the algorithms and then tweak it. It sucks.

The only way I could smooth it out, which is kind of a no duh is just raise the minimum move

[harsh matrix]

Then do that

How long were your guide exposures?

id also go as far as to say so you dont waste the whole night tuning it, give each setting you change about a minute or 2, watch how the RA acts, if it gets super twichy, raise the minmo and drop the aggression or reactive weight, if it looks like it isnt correcting enough, do the reverse

if you cant get a middle ground, raise the guide exposure time by half a second or more

if the guiding looks like it is falling behind, drop the guide exposure length

definitely raise the guide prism by a bit, dunno by how much, not enough to be outside of the image circle ofc, but get it to where the 220 can reach focus and use that

you need to get that camera working with the rig or else this doesnt matter

[vapid patio]

About 1s-1.5 2 is too long and 0.5 is too much chasing

[vapid patio]

The main thing it will do it be doing fine then ddrop and slowly correct back up even with aggr very high I don't know why

[vapid patio]

My pirism is all the way in lol

[vapid patio]

Just did I needed to change around some spacers to t
Fit in a 10mm between the oag and camera

[harsh matrix]

Oh thank god

[harsh matrix]

That sounds like it could be periodic error

For PPEC to do its thing and actually work, you need to let the mount cycle several times

I think folks say 4 times

So 4 times 280s

I say put PPEC back on and leave pred weight on 50, and let it cycle several times

Then come back and see what its doing

You wont see stellar numbers right away.

[vapid patio]

What? Haha is it that big of a deal

[vapid patio]

Hm ok good to know I will try that for sure tonight

There's my other problem

. I wanna use my 220mm in my oag but it can't reach focus but my 120mm can. So I have to space out my oag more. But then I can't slide it in enough for my telescope to reach focus

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[vapid patio]

Why🤨

[vapid patio]

And @harsh matrix Its not the same a am5. It is not direct strain wave it uses belts

[harsh matrix]

My AM5N isnt direct strain wave either

It also uses belts

[harsh matrix]

Cause the 120MM sucks on an RC as you and I have already discovered and discussed

[vapid patio]

T SOMEHOW MY 20YR OLD CGEN GOT 0.60 -0.80

[vapid patio]

Oh didn't know that

[harsh matrix]

But you didnt get many stars with the 120MM

[vapid patio]

Yeah maybe 5 on a good day

[harsh matrix]

The 220MM should pick up a lot more so multi star guiding can kick into full gear

[vapid patio]

But lowwww snr

[harsh matrix]

I get 7 to 9 stars with my Xena no matter what

[vapid patio]

Fair

[vapid patio]

Fancy fancy indeed

Some dude couldn't get good guidibg with it with a oag and a asi585 but once he used a duo camera he got 0.30-0.80

[harsh matrix]

It wasnt until I was guiding on that many stars that my RMS tanked.

[harsh matrix]

The hell?

[vapid patio]

Really? What did you use before?

[vapid patio]

Or it was touptek 585mini

Maybe if you remember what was your guiding when you first started messing with it

[harsh matrix]

I was using a 120MM Mini before

[vapid patio]

Hehe

So we both know it sucks

[harsh matrix]

My guiding before I tried to tune it was between 0.7 RMS on a good night to like 1.1 and 1.2 RMS on a bad night

That was with a 120MM as well

[vapid patio]

Still better than mine smh smh

[harsh matrix]

I couldn't get it below 0.6 RMS until after I got the Xena-M, and I couldn't get it to 0.3 RMS until I upgraded tripods

You're using the TC40 right?

[vapid patio]

Yep

And zwo peir extension

[harsh matrix]

Cause unfortunately, that has quite a bit of flexture in it and that does keep your RMS quite high regardless of what you do.

[vapid patio]

Uh ob

Cgem tripod?

[harsh matrix]

The AVX tripod works well with the pier extension too.

[vapid patio]

Can use cgem tripod nvm

[harsh matrix]

You just need a 3/8" foot long threaded rod and a 3/8" wing nut or 2

[harsh matrix]

If the CGEM tripod is the same as the AVX and EQ6 tripods, then yes.

[vapid patio]

It has the left and right nob thing built into it

I will see hold up

@harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

Yeah should work

You need some 3/8" washers as well

You can kind of see the wing nut below the tripod leg spreader

You can buy the hardware at Lowe's or something, its on their screws and nuts isle

What i wish I did is I wish I got a second wing nut the thread on before the tripod spreader to lock down the rod without the spreader on

Because without it, even though the rod is threaded into the larger of the 2 PE200 adapters, it can still spin around unless you get that single wing nut as tight as possible with the tripod spreader on.

I think having another wing nut to secure the pier extension without the tripod spreader is the play

Instead of wing nuts you can get fluted knobs that are 3/8" thru threaded.

Thats actually preferable since the only way to get the wing nuts tight enough is if you use a channel lock or something which is what I did.

[vapid patio]

HAHA LOOKS GOOFY

One sec

@harsh matrix Doesn’t @frosty shard use this tripod with his rc8?

I can’t do it with my current hardware, but I don’t understand how this is the main issue

And I mean I put a 20 pound weight in the bottom to lower the center of gravity and making it a wholeeee lot stiffer

[harsh matrix]

No he uses skywatchers version

And he also doesnt get that great of guiding

Its not the main issue but it is an issue and it will ultimately be a problem later.

[harsh matrix]

There's still enough flexture to be a problem regardless of what you put in there.

[vapid patio]

Is this just from personal experience? I don’t see that anywhere when looking it up

I mean it feel just as study as my cgems tripod

[harsh matrix]

Both personal and what ive heard of and read both online and on the youtubes

Ive said it before but I'll say it again, my guiding RMS fell a good 0.2 to 0.3 just by swapping to a steel tripod

Changed nothing else.

[vapid patio]

Man…

[harsh matrix]

I used to get a strong oscillation in the RA as well

Something that no amoint of changing settings or exposure time would fix

[vapid patio]

Also somthing weird is I will polar align then go do phd2 guide assistant, and it will say it is so far off 50 plus

[harsh matrix]

I tried to stop the oscillations for weeks but never could get them to go away until I swapped the tripod.

[vapid patio]

Ok ok I will find a bolt

[harsh matrix]

I dont really trust the guide assistant ever

Nina TPPA tells me my error is about 20 seconds or less depending on how accurate I wanted to get, and the guide logs tell me the same thing.

Guiding assistant always thinks im 7 to 10 or more minutes off

[vapid patio]

Weird anyways I’ll find a bolt No big deal.

[frosty shard]

MY DUDES

AI free star removal

[vapid patio]

Starnet++?

[frosty shard]

It still uses a neural network, but this is a purely linear model with statistical guarantees

[vapid patio]

Hmm ok cool

@harsh matrix

This feels sketchy

[harsh matrix]

Thats because that isnt going to work

Or I dont think it will

[vapid patio]

Why

[harsh matrix]

Because the spreader for the TC40 is plastic and not steel

And does the pier extension move around at all?

[vapid patio]

No

[vapid patio]

Is it super important?

[harsh matrix]

Unless that process is basically flawless, there's no way im ditching starx for it.

[harsh matrix]

Plastic will always have more give than steel

You can certainly give it a go, just dont expect flawless results

Also being set up on grass instead of a pad of some sort is going to pose its own issues

If you give that a shot, id keep a very close eye on it.

[vapid patio]

Okkkk

It just kinda weird how I have to keep that little ring on there. I feel like there should still be threads on the actual extension

[harsh matrix]

Thats how they designed it lol...

Mine is the same way

[vapid patio]

Oh

Show me the inside of your peir if you could

[harsh matrix]

Somebody installed the ring on the inside of the extension but I couldn't make it work with my screws so I didn't bother.

[harsh matrix]

Can't cause I dont have a photo

[vapid patio]

Oh ok

I just feel like it’s only so many threads holding all of it

And you think that this is better than the tc40?

[harsh matrix]

I dont know if that particular method is any better

[vapid patio]

😔

Can't believe that a almost 400 dollar mount is bad

[harsh matrix]

Does the threaded rod go all the way through the ring on the pier extension?

Or like only halfway up?

[vapid patio]

All the way

let Me show you how it is on there

[harsh matrix]

Okay thats good.

[harsh matrix]

I meant you need a 16" 3/8" threaded rod btw, foot long is too short

[vapid patio]

Dang

Then what else?

[harsh matrix]

Preferably 1 or 2 3/8" wing nuts and as many 3/8" washers as wing nuts, or two through threaded fluted knobs.

[frosty shard]

I'm not entirely sure if star removal will be a regular part of my workflows, but since I'm part of the Julia community I feel obliged to give it a whirl

Actually it would be cool to do a side-by-side comparison

[vapid patio]

Ok I will do it tomorrow everything I is closed right now

[frosty shard]

I'm especially curious about how it compares to Starnet++ since they're both free tools

[vapid patio]

And what should I do tonight?

@harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

Well you can certainly give it a try

[vapid patio]

NO YOU DOUBTED THE TRIPOD YOU TELL ME

on a respectful note

[harsh matrix]

Just to be absolutely sure, the threaded rod for the TC40 is threaded all the way into the pier extension right?

You look through the little window in it or down the tube, and you can clearly see the top of the threads are higher than or level with the top of the ring?

[vapid patio]

Let me show you

[harsh matrix]

If so, its probably fine for one night but id definitely not use that permanently.

[vapid patio]

Wait no its not all the way up its maybe a quarter of the way

[harsh matrix]

Then hell no dont try it

[vapid patio]

I mean, I’m only at 900 mm of focal length. My rig is 20 pounds. I feel like the TC 40 should be fine. I don’t know.

[harsh matrix]

I dont think thats enough bite on the treads

[vapid patio]

Yeahhh

[harsh matrix]

A quarter of the way is like 3 or 4 mm of threads and for a payload that heavy, its not worth the risk

You're going to have to see if you can make the TC40 work

[vapid patio]

Like I said, with the 20 pounds in the little basket underneath that significantly gives the tripod more strength

[harsh matrix]

If you can get your rms down the kudos to you

[harsh matrix]

That will help but it wont fix the problem which is the structural rigidity of the legs themselves.

But see if it does help first ofc

[vapid patio]

I ran it last night like that

[harsh matrix]

Oh boy

[vapid patio]

You mean like how wide it is is the problem it’s very narrow?

[harsh matrix]

Again, use PPEC, let it cycle 3 or 4 times, set the period length to about 280 seconds, and set the min mo higher than it was, possibly lower reactive weight, and set predictive weight to 50 to start

[vapid patio]

Sir yes sir

[harsh matrix]

I mean the actual structural regitidy of the legs themselves, not anything about how wide the tripod base is

That does create its own set of issues but thats not relevant unless you have high winds.

[vapid patio]

And has zwo addressed it?

[harsh matrix]

No

[vapid patio]

Ok haha well I will move it onto a platform

[harsh matrix]

Good

That should help a bit

Orrrrr

Since thats a TC40, it came with grass spikes you could install instead to see if you can anchor it down.

Up to you though, whatever is easier.

I havent tried the grass spikes myself yet because im too much of a wuss to put my stuff on the grass

[undone sedge]

i like my grass spikes
i usually find one or two subs with slight trailing without them
with the spikes things are a lot more stable

[vapid patio]

Haha like I said all this stuff is borrowed so if it sucks well I didn’t spend a penny

And I didn’t see any grass spikes but it’s whatever

This makes me wanna get a eqr-6 and skip harmonic mounts

[undone sedge]

harmonics can be pretty good, just gotta upgrade the tripod if you want ultra stability

[harsh matrix]

Again this is what I was saying @vapid patio

Heath is on point with this.

[vapid patio]

Really? I can’t belive the tc40 is that bad 😭

[vapid patio]

I’m getting the screws tomorrow

Everything is closed right now

[undone sedge]

i mean i’m using a tc-40 rn and im not losing anything due to instability
my setup’s lighter than an RC too

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Tisk Tisk Tisk

[vapid patio]

How much does your setup weigh

[undone sedge]

probably around 15-20 pounds? i’m not 100% sure

[vapid patio]

AND MINE WEIGHS 20

[harsh matrix]

My RC6 setup was also about 20 pounds

[harsh matrix]

Hes using a 714 mm 102 frac

Its not nearly as demanding on guiding as our rigs are.

[harsh matrix]

What RMS does your AM5 average?

This could bump into a sampling limit too.

[undone sedge]

mine usually .5-.6”
but i’m also reduced and haven’t tinkered with settings yet, with the asiair i got as low as .2-.3” - it’ll probably be better when im at native fl

[vapid patio]

Ahhh ok makes sense

@harsh matrix The dude who let me use it used it with asiair. I wonder what does asiair use to guide?

[harsh matrix]

The asiair is using ripped/stolen PHD2 code for guiding

The guts are identical

[vapid patio]

I know

[harsh matrix]

The asiair can report different numbers from Nina and a PHD2 application though

[vapid patio]

But what guiding algorithms and all that does it use?

[harsh matrix]

I dont know how the air interprets the RMS values compared to standard PHD2 and Nina

[harsh matrix]

I dont know

I think you are stuck with hysteresis only on it

For both ra and dec

[vapid patio]

Makes sense

[harsh matrix]

Don't get too impatient with the mount though

Supposedly the Juwei doesnt perform quite as good as an AM5N, and could require meticulous tuning to achieve acceptable results.

I expect it to be usable, and possibly very good, it just needs some time and patience + lots of experimentation.

[vapid patio]

Well glad you back it up

I got my 220 going and my telescope is in focus

[harsh matrix]

Good

That will alleviate some of the pain

[vapid patio]

Why is Nina saying my fl is 865? 😭

I have 85mm of spacing

So odd

I mean asiair when native would say I am 1340mm

[harsh matrix]

Thats probably what you told Nina it is idk

[vapid patio]

No

[harsh matrix]

How or where is it saying that?

Uh that could be your actual reduction

If thats the case, go into settings and put that down as your focal length.

[vapid patio]

Just did

[harsh matrix]

Did it throw this error before or after you did that?

[vapid patio]

Before

It just plate solved and told me is all

[harsh matrix]

Okay

That shouldnt be thrown again assuming thats truly the actual reduction.

[vapid patio]

Let me see

Nope we good

Seem my actual reduction is a little more than calculated

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix This is so weird to see 😭 I was like why is my background so black with gamma all the way down? I think it just has so little read noise

[harsh matrix]

Lmao

There you go

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Uhhh

[harsh matrix]

Nice ants

I can't explain whats going on there.

What is your focal length set to in PHD2 settings?

[vapid patio]

Uh oh I didn’t know there was a settings in phd2 for that

[harsh matrix]

There is

Better get on that

May explain all of your problems if its more than like 10% off

[vapid patio]

It’s at 918

So 6% off

[harsh matrix]

Thats enough to show your RMS being significantly higher than it really was.

[vapid patio]

Uh oh then I might have been fine last night haha

[harsh matrix]

Yeah exactly

[vapid patio]

I’m hovering at 1.00 higher and lower it has been running for 5min

[harsh matrix]

Id use hysteresis on dev not resist switch

A harmonic doesnt have backlash

[vapid patio]

Ok let me try

Oh yeah

[harsh matrix]

If it tells you it does, its because its imbalanced

Not because there's actually backlash

PHD2 doesnt know the difference.

[vapid patio]

Oh I have a little it says

Last night it said I have some

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix So now I hover 1 and under lowest .75

Anything look weird?

[harsh matrix]

You may be able to lower the min mo on the dec a little

The spiky RA nonsense tells me your seeing is complete garbage tonight

[tight lodge]

@vapid patio did you get a 1.25" body guide camera or an m42 guide cam?

[vapid patio]

Yeah no it’s straight ass

And some low clouds

[vapid patio]

Huh

Like why do it be doing this

[tight lodge]

Which design did you get?

[vapid patio]

The mini

[tight lodge]

You should be able to reach focus tho

[vapid patio]

I am

Just not how I had it last night

[tight lodge]

The flange distance for the 120 mini and 220 mini is the same

[vapid patio]

120mm is 8.5 and 220 is 13.5 I think somthing like that

[tight lodge]

Thus alos looks off to me

[vapid patio]

Yeah the problem is with that big of a spacer between the oag and filter wheel is my big scope can’t get in focus because it needs to sit back more and the oag won’t let it

[tight lodge]

The distance from the oag prism to the guide sensor, and from the prism to the main cam sensor should be equal

[vapid patio]

I know this lol

It’s fine now and that’s a old pic

[harsh matrix]

that is possible periodic error

[vapid patio]

Good or bad thing I hear that word a lot

[harsh matrix]

there isnt a periodic error report included with those juwei's right?

[vapid patio]

No I don’t think so

[harsh matrix]

not really either

[vapid patio]

And it’s like if I don’t do 0.5 sec exps it can’t recover

[tight lodge]

What are your agr values?

[vapid patio]

Around 1.0 rms

[tight lodge]

Because this looks like the RA is not able to correct enough to bring itself back

[tight lodge]

Agresivness

RA and DEC agresivness

[vapid patio]

Not a option for ppec

[vapid patio]

Oh

One sec

Just wanted to send this here mb

[tight lodge]

Try these settings.
RA Agr. 140, Hys. 50, MinMo. 0.15, DEC Agr. 100, MinMo 0.15, Scope Max RA 200ms, Scope Max DEC 500

After you change them, you recalibrate and see how the guiding behaves

[harsh matrix]

you can set the reactive weight very high too

140 as said above

reactive weight is basically agression for PPEC

they work fundamentally the same way, just different names

[tight lodge]

Worth a shot imo

[vapid patio]

Just did I will let you know

[vapid patio]

I will try that aswell thank you

[tight lodge]

Also increase the exposure time to 1s

[vapid patio]

Sorry I was doing this

[harsh matrix]

i tried to look at the milky way in backyard an hour ago since i dont even need dark adapted vision to see it normally but uh

light pollution here is so goddarn bad that there is NOTHING

no hint of it whatsoever

[harsh matrix]

also have you gotten a good calibration yet, and how long have you let it guide for?

[vapid patio]

Yes I have gotten good ones where it doesn’t say anything and well it totally has been guiding for a little over 3hrs

[vapid patio]

😔 praying every house disappears in a 50mile radius 🙏

@tight lodge its doing about the same not bad at all about 1 flat

[harsh matrix]

has it?

[vapid patio]

I said a couple things there

[harsh matrix]

have you changed the correction algorithm at all in the last 20 or so minutes?

[vapid patio]

Well yeah just now to do what you said

I mean what pickles said

[harsh matrix]

okay

you can probably boost the predictive weight too now

to 60 and see what happens

then 70

[vapid patio]

I put reactive to 140 lol lets see what it does

[harsh matrix]

you can change the guide rate too but that will mess up all of your current settings, making them too aggressive or too lenient depending on how high or low you set it

i wouldnt do that unless you cant bring the RMS lower than 1 soon

[vapid patio]

My guide rate is 1.1 some how

I think

Where can I see it?

[harsh matrix]

i dont have a darn clue as i dont know what software you are using

to run it

[vapid patio]

Onstep

[harsh matrix]

if that mount runs through onstep, i cant help you

yeah i dont know onstep

not familiar with it

[vapid patio]

Dang

[tight lodge]

Ok, 1 is better than 4

[vapid patio]

For sure

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Well I have made the conclusion that ppec is worse than hysteresis

I think

Unless I have screwed up my ppec so bad

[harsh matrix]

it's possible

supposedly ppec doesnt work on harmonics but that's not true for the am5n's or am5's

hysteresis may work best for a juwei

[vapid patio]

I reset the ppec settings its good now 😭

[harsh matrix]

the heck

maybe you did mess it up

[vapid patio]

By not as good as the other one

[harsh matrix]

i dunno how that would be

[vapid patio]

Hovering at 1.00-1.50

[harsh matrix]

what was hysteresis doing?

[vapid patio]

I'm gonna let it run tho

[vapid patio]

0.60-0.80

[harsh matrix]

do that, give it some time, if the RMS never falls, hysteresis is probably the way to go

[vapid patio]

Ok yeah will do thanks

[harsh matrix]

that's funny though because my guiding was much worse with hysteresis

funny how that works

[vapid patio]

Your ra motor is different

Or maybe its your dec

Idk lol

[tight lodge]

Different mounts behave differently

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/drake-computer-notebook-explaning-gif-21152267

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Now ppec is better

Like they change all the time

But ppec remember those big spikes and correct then later the other one doesnt

[harsh matrix]

yuppers

exactly why i said use PPEC

it will correct them before the RA can run away

[vapid patio]

Yeah but I still go from 0.8-1

Maybe its a lost cause? Idk I'm getting tired of wasting clear nights

And somehow my cgem does better haha

But you swear the cgem tripod will make a difference?

[harsh matrix]

it will but you need to iron out the guiding before you will get a better idea

where is the predictive weight rn?

[vapid patio]

50

[harsh matrix]

raise it and see if it improves

[vapid patio]

Ok

[harsh matrix]

to 60

[vapid patio]

By tens?

[proven coyote]

Could it be that the problem that the mount wasnt moving the scope till you put the counter weight on have anything effects on what's happening now like maybe its not enough power to move that direction idk

[harsh matrix]

and then to 70 etc.

[vapid patio]

Not sure

[harsh matrix]

see what multiple of 10 provides the best results and then stick to that

[vapid patio]

Ok

[harsh matrix]

let it run for like 2 or 3 minutes each change

sometimes it can look good initially and then it can get really bad

or the opposite can happen

[vapid patio]

Yeah

[harsh matrix]

it's trial and error at this point to get the RMS down

[vapid patio]

For sure I will play with the settings and chill

[proven coyote]

Che k cloudy nights to see if anyone else had the problem and see if there is a fix or something

[vapid patio]

Nope there is not much user support on this mount

[harsh matrix]

i think there's a full blown Juwei tribe on cloudy nights

[vapid patio]

And I didn't spend any money btw I'm borrowing

Oh

Let me see

[harsh matrix]

might be worth looking around there

especially if anyone has guide setting recommendations

of course monitor the mount while you browse

dont waste a second

[vapid patio]

Going up to 60 had brought my Ra rms down .10-.15

[harsh matrix]

holy crap

try 70 and see what happens fuq it

[vapid patio]

-.20

To about -15

It fluxes you know how it is

@harsh matrix Buttt but but I just looked back my cgem did 0.57 tottal 😭

[harsh matrix]

good god

id keep it there tbh

where is it hovering rn?

RMS wise

0.6 to 0.7 is about the limit of the TC40

[vapid patio]

Now up to 1.00 smh smh

[harsh matrix]

with an RC

[harsh matrix]

uh oh

[vapid patio]

At 1.20 now

[harsh matrix]

is the RA running away?

or is it something else?

[vapid patio]

You know it doesn't look bad but Its all my Ra going up number wise

Back down to 0.85

[harsh matrix]

well yeah

the RA is doing the work

if your PA is good the dec does fuq all

[vapid patio]

Haha I know Ra doesn't move

True

0.78 now

Ra alone at 0.60

Dropping to 50s

[harsh matrix]

does the RA graph look like a roller coaster

like oscillations?

or did it?

[vapid patio]

Only if I do 1s exps

[harsh matrix]

oh interesting

[vapid patio]

Idk why but when I do 1s exps it looks like a roller coaster

Why tf is dec rising

[harsh matrix]

0.5 second exposures are much less tolerant to seeing

[harsh matrix]

is it windy?

[vapid patio]

Not at all

[tight lodge]

Why PHD2 us so stripped down for you?

[vapid patio]

You mean like no graph

[harsh matrix]

im wondering as well

[vapid patio]

You mean the graph??

[harsh matrix]

that

and it gives you access to all the min mo settings, weight settings, etc on the bottom next to the gray box

normally

[vapid patio]

Fixed

[tight lodge]

Increase Hystory from 20 to a higher number, usually it helps smooth down the guiding

[harsh matrix]

dec looks real nice

[vapid patio]

It is quite chilling

[harsh matrix]

that hysteresis value is on the dec

not the RA

[vapid patio]

Ok

Or I mean dec is fine but lets see

You know @harsh matrix I think this mount is not it sadly 😔 maybe I should still get those bolts tomorrow and try the other tripod? Or just go back to the ol cgem? If you believe I can get better than 0.57-0.70 with it I will still grab the bolts and try

[harsh matrix]

what has it been averaging the last 20 ish minutes?

[vapid patio]

0.60-1.20 big fluctuations

[harsh matrix]

kind of sounds like oscialltions to me tbh

are there locks on the altitude knobs?

looks like there are

are they locked?

and if you didnt move it to solid ground or put it on some sort of pads, that could be a problem as well

cause youre running a heavily unbalanced load on soft and uneven ground if that's the case, and that is likely to cause you no end of trouble

[vapid patio]

That’s what phd2 says

[tight lodge]

I thinking that the mount might be swaying couple of microns over there

[harsh matrix]

he put it back on the TC40

so it would be swaying in the legs themselves if it's on concrete

[vapid patio]

Yes but the Dec does move still a little if you yank on it

[tight lodge]

I did the math a while ago and 0.4μm equals to about 0.5arcsec

[harsh matrix]

jesus

that would explain why the TC40 isnt terribly stable

[vapid patio]

Huh

[harsh matrix]

okay did you put the rig on solid ground?

[vapid patio]

Yep

[harsh matrix]

or on cinder blocks or something

okay

[vapid patio]

Concrete pad

[harsh matrix]

okay even better

[harsh matrix]

are you still guiding near the celestial equator?

[vapid patio]

I’m on m16 so I think so?

[harsh matrix]

okay you are for sure

that is the hardest spot to guide at by far, and it's going to exaggerate any sort of movement in any part of the system

that would be part of the wild variations

[vapid patio]

Interesting

So if I were to guide on Cygnus it would be better?

[harsh matrix]

iirc, when i was shooting horsehead with my RC6 on the TC40, i was getting huge oscillations like you since that is near the celestial equator

[harsh matrix]

for sure

worth a shot

if the rms falls and the oscillations settle down a little, this tells me it is the tc40

[vapid patio]

Yeah it follows the same path ish

[tight lodge]

Try even closer to zenith, doesn't necessarily has to be a target

[vapid patio]

Wow wow wow wow my Dec at 1.20

[harsh matrix]

dafuq

[vapid patio]

Oh I’m guiding into a tree

Nvm

[harsh matrix]

well there ya go

[vapid patio]

Haha

[vapid patio]

Stright up?

I forgot what they all mean

[harsh matrix]

💀

my guiding is pretty bad rn too

[harsh matrix]

yes

[vapid patio]

What target

[tight lodge]

Yes

[harsh matrix]

M16

[vapid patio]

WAIT I CAN DO M33

SHOULD I

CAN I?

[harsh matrix]

i mean

why not

[vapid patio]

Waited all year for my baby to rise

[harsh matrix]

go hunt that game

you got the means to do better than i did

[vapid patio]

And that still looks amazing

I gotta wait a little longer I will go Pac-Man

[harsh matrix]

looks like people have achieved very good RMS numbers with the Juwei 17

no sign of settings though

[vapid patio]

And some unlucky

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

Holy stars

[harsh matrix]

ive heard that too

[harsh matrix]

hell yeah

[vapid patio]

But seeing my graphs I have my doubts I have a bad one

[harsh matrix]

You were just saying you thought it was a lost cause 😭

[vapid patio]

I mean but then you said oh your at m16 you are gonna have fluctuations

Idk

Never done m16 every with any of my Astro stuff

So humid and high clouds this time of year for Nc

[tight lodge]

I might have another hypothesis on the oscillations. It could be the flex spline... uuuhm... flexing under load. So it kinda acts like a spring when it gets corrections from the motor. Mayne you are a bit too unbalanced?

[harsh matrix]

Possibly and with the TC40 already having flexture it could be exaggerated even further.

[vapid patio]

My guide chart says I have no “backlash” and vel said if you were unbalanced it would show up as backlash

Maybe

[harsh matrix]

In Dec

[vapid patio]

Ah

[harsh matrix]

In RA, it wont know

[vapid patio]

I see I see

Should i recalibrate

[harsh matrix]

Was it acting like this with the predictive weight at 60?

[vapid patio]

Like what

[harsh matrix]

Oscillating over time

[vapid patio]

Yes

Always has

[harsh matrix]

Alright

[harsh matrix]

Is the current calibration deemed bad by PHD2?

[vapid patio]

Well I just saw it guide and It was rough

Can’t hurt

[harsh matrix]

It wont work on that part of the sky

PHD2 forces you to calibrate at the celestial equator

[harsh matrix]

Id recalibrate

That looks sketchy

At the celestial equator ofc

[vapid patio]

Where is that

Like as low as I can go?

I’m so confused when it asks that

[harsh matrix]

Roughly the same line that M16 takes through the sky

[vapid patio]

Oh so like where Cygnus is now?

[harsh matrix]

Not even close

I believe its about 90 degrees from the celestial pole iirc

[vapid patio]

Ohhhh steluriam shows me

But wait

I reguided on Pac-Man nebula and this is what I get

@harsh matrix This is huge

[harsh matrix]

See

[vapid patio]

My ra is doing better than Dec 😭

[harsh matrix]

That tells me what I need to know

[vapid patio]

I'm curious🙏

Back up to .70 but eh

[harsh matrix]

I bet it will still oscillate like crazy but at a lower frequency

[vapid patio]

Its getting higher bruuuuu

[harsh matrix]

Thats almost exactly what I was running in to before I did away with the tc40

[vapid patio]

Back down nvm nvm

[harsh matrix]

It would not sit still

[vapid patio]

So its my tripod?

Flexing?

[harsh matrix]

Im going to bet that it is...

Do you have the legs extended?

[vapid patio]

So you are saying your am5n did the same thing?

[vapid patio]

Yes

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[harsh matrix]

Im going to bet that its even more likely...

Yeah so go grab that hardware tomorrow, swap everything to the AVX/CGEM and then try again.

Im almost certain your guiding will be instantly more stable.

[vapid patio]

So I need a 16 inch 3/8s screw and some wing nuts?

[vapid patio]

Well if so it only will cost me a few bucks

[harsh matrix]

Threaded rod not screw

[vapid patio]

Yeah yeah sorry just default in my head

[harsh matrix]

2 wing nuts and 2 washers of the same thread

[vapid patio]

Screen shoted 🙏

Down to 0.49

[harsh matrix]

Hell yeah

[vapid patio]

Hell yeah

Thanks for your help man I really appreciate it

[harsh matrix]

If it wasnt something flexing, you would have stable guiding

So something is flexing and im betting its the tripod since thats what I found.

[vapid patio]

Yeah I bet it too as you had the same one. And the juwei 17 btw is amazing built quality

[harsh matrix]

Everything else is the same as my hardware basically so im not eager to point the finger at anything else at this point.

[vapid patio]

Yeah that’s what I’m thinking

Well ima image! Let’s goooo

This is great to know that a lot of things affect your guiding… ALOT

[tight lodge]

Instagram worthy

[harsh matrix]

Too much

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix Your right you have to be right look at this

They both go up almost the same every time

[vapid patio]

For sure 🫡

[harsh matrix]

Well you see a giant dip following the spike too

Almost every time

Btw once you're done for the night, send me the guide log

[vapid patio]

How

[harsh matrix]

I can tell you the exact period of the periodic error and then you can put that in.

[vapid patio]

Ah ok cool

[harsh matrix]

PHD2 stores guide logs in the documents folder on your computer I believe

[vapid patio]

Let me look

Does it save a photo?

Just the text?

[harsh matrix]

Its a text document

[vapid patio]

Ok yeah yeah

[harsh matrix]

iirc oscillations will beome more intense the closer to the meridian you get too because of the bendy legs of the tripod and the uneven load on the mount

so dont freak out if you check in on it later and you have giant spikes over 2" in size

[vapid patio]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1304465186845102100.gif?size=48&animated=true&name=whyvanish

Did it happen to you when you had this tripod?

[harsh matrix]

i am exaggerating the size but yes the oscillations got so bad on occasion that i was getting 1.1 to 1.2 RMS

[vapid patio]

That’s exactly what I’m getting

[harsh matrix]

welcome to hell

it's not a big issue when you dont have a 20 pound payload that is super demanding on guiding

but the second you need to have better than 0.7 RMS with a super heavy payload, yeah that tripod is going to throw in the flag

[vapid patio]

Hehe

[vapid patio]

Man well that’s depressing

Uh oh my rms won’t go down

[harsh matrix]

holy mother of god

[vapid patio]

What

What

What

[harsh matrix]

that Ha

how long is that sub

[vapid patio]

120

[harsh matrix]

HUH

dude the 585 is a monster

jesus

[vapid patio]

Oh haha yeah it does great in ha

Like 80-90% if i remember

Dude my rms is back horrible

[tight lodge]

Get one

[harsh matrix]

some day man

priorities

😭

[harsh matrix]

give it a minute

it should chill out depending on how upset it is

[tight lodge]

Sell the 533

[harsh matrix]

never

[vapid patio]

How long were the up and down periods?

[harsh matrix]

random length

unpredictable

part of what was so frustrating

[vapid patio]

@tight lodge appreciate the 585 mono tip 🤝

[vapid patio]

Sometimes minutes sometimes short?

[harsh matrix]

yeah

[tight lodge]

I told you is the beat

[vapid patio]

Man for a almost 400 dollar mount it seems to suck

So odd

[harsh matrix]

it's because it is carbon fiber

carbon fiber has a little bit of give

steel has no give

[tight lodge]

Yeah... CF tripods are the worst trap to fall in

[harsh matrix]

and there's another person saying it @vapid patio

amirite or amirite?

[tight lodge]

CF is about as rigid as a dry noodle

[vapid patio]

Mannnn

Scammy

[harsh matrix]

and then pair that with a 20 pound unbalanced payload, ignoring the weight of the counterweight, mount head, counterweight bar etc.

[vapid patio]

ITS STILL AT 1.00

[harsh matrix]

is the graph still sort of up and down up and down??

[harsh matrix]

ohhhh yes it is

[vapid patio]

It is?

Maybe when you said that I picture somthing else

[harsh matrix]

well see how it's consistently off in the positive direction, and when it finally corrects, it falls off into the negative direction

that's what i was seeing

it would not lock around 0

[vapid patio]

Your right

[harsh matrix]

it was constantly way off in the positive or negative direction, never stayed put

not to mention, the dec is moving too

[vapid patio]

Every time it touches 0 it goes down