Ritchey–Chrétien enjoyers thread

[harsh matrix]

holy

look at those tiny single pixel stars or star clusters that got resolved lmfao

im on a power trip atm holy fuq

[tight lodge]

But it kinda looks dope ngl

[harsh matrix]

it does

the weirdest part is hubble also appears to have it

except hubble's is made by a completely different process for a completely different reason

that's ALSO why i started to believe people when they said it was diffraction limited

an observational bias without enough counter evidence to support a different idea of what was really going on

[tight lodge]

Sounds like an average reddit thread

[harsh matrix]

that went for my line of thinking mostly

but the same can be applied to the other side of the argument

this is some of the highest resolution galaxy data i have been able to get from my own rig

i thought that maybe this compete with Tom's and then i went back and looked at it only to realize that his is like professional grade resolution

mine is small fry by comparison

[tight lodge]

Bruh... this is what I consider the sharpest galaxy that I ever shot

[harsh matrix]

well it is pretty good i will give you that

the faint point of light where SN2023ixf was last year is the faded infared whispers from the death of this star

im pretty impressed there's anything here at all to capture and that i captured it with the full moon out

[tight lodge]

This?

[harsh matrix]

looks like it

i just realized the dot in mine may not be it lol

i think my RC separated that Hii region from the star cluster right next to it

that's why i think it's something it is not perhaps

[tight lodge]

Too bad I can't find a good reference for the sn2023ixf

Everyone just shoots so wide that there's nothing to resolve

[harsh matrix]

this is mine

not very good at all but it's what i got

pretty excited to see what happens with flats and the rest of the data stacked

looks great atm

huh wtf

idk what this red dot is

never seen it before

doesnt come up in sinbad

[tight lodge]

https://tenor.com/view/it-was-the-aliens-im-not-saying-it-was-aliens-ancient-aliens-gif-14839810013080040984

[tight lodge]

I don't think there's a catalogue that can solve this image 😂

[thorny path]

Alien

[tight lodge]

Check out my old RGB rig

[frosty shard]

Sicc. I need to do a time lapse

[tight lodge]

They are so fun tbh

[runic violet]

Its typical resolution for a large telescope, you can replicate it with average seeing on a RC

your data looks like red/nir or something since there's no dust, so its apples to oranges

[harsh matrix]

it's NIR

[harsh matrix]

ugh okay

there's still the weird circular glow even after flats

after fixing everything else

i did sky flats

idk what to do at this point, almost would rather shoot unreduced

[brisk swift]

shoot unreduced

[harsh matrix]

the broadband isnt quite as bad as it has been in the past

actually not that bad considering this isnt gradient corrected and the full moon was out, not that far from the scope

there was a risk of the light leak from the focuser coming back but there's no evidence of a leak here

i think i can improve it slightly, and that's about all it needs to be perfect

hopefully one final adjustment is enough.

yeah the middle is green and there's still a weird looking rainbow in the bg

that means it's not fixed

but this is the flattest BG ive gotten with a reducer so ill take it tbh

also i should have checked collimation because i tore down the scope and set it back up so many times testing...

this is probably astigmatism but i would have been happier knowing for sure if colli was good or not

[brisk swift]

compete with a 24" RC to make the competition fair

[harsh matrix]

oof colli was probably perfect rip

the eccentricity is more based on tilt/astigmatism

the edges of the frame where the image circle was closer to degrading due to mirror flop is where the worst astigmatism is going to be

wait it's really not that bad

i might be gaslighting myself but still

[brisk swift]

tbh i think your rc6 images were sharper

[harsh matrix]

pfftftttftttf

no

not even close lmao

im still testing this scope

also you havent seen my crescent data from last night yet

that is razor sharp

[brisk swift]

show

[harsh matrix]

M13 could have been better but the constant start/stop guiding nature of shooting RGB in mono was pretty rough on it

M101 was very good

[harsh matrix]

this is a screenshot of a stream

i think even through the compression you can tell there's some substance there

and did you see my M16 and M8 from this scope?

[brisk swift]

nu

[harsh matrix]

they completely stomp what my RC6 did

[brisk swift]

Show

[harsh matrix]

wasnt even a competition

[brisk swift]

I saw your m16

[harsh matrix]

this is S+ tier

straight up

and so is lagoon

unbelievable

this is what the RC6 could do in 5 minutes

[brisk swift]

crazy

[harsh matrix]

and same for lagoon

[brisk swift]

shoot horsehead again

[harsh matrix]

it's not really fair considering the RC8 images are stacks of almost 1 hour, while these are single subs, but i could immediately tell the RC8 was sharper just by looking at the subs

the 6 looks insanely soft

[harsh matrix]

tell the sun to screw off and i will

alright i cant lie, im p happy with this

[brisk swift]

just pour water on it

[harsh matrix]

i even have M13 with the RC6 here

somehow i think this one looks a lot worse

it's more data than my RC8 image too 😭

how dafuq

[brisk swift]

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-water-gif-18466013

[frosty shard]

Pardon my idiocy, but why would you have to restart guiding to shoot RGB with a mono setup?

[brisk swift]

new person?

[ripe crystal]

interesting…

teach me the ways

[frosty shard]

1. acquire telescope
2. set telescope up for visual observing in public area
3. ask strangers if they want to see the moon/planets/a star cluster/etc
4. profit

[ripe crystal]

😼

[frosty shard]

I'm inclined to try EAA now, but I feel like looking through the scope is more rewarding for others

[brisk swift]

8" is necessary to get that much signal

lame joke

[ripe crystal]

hmm i think step 2 is a tough step. If I bring it to the campus, they might try to blow it up

You never know with “the public”

[brisk swift]

yea man I'll be scared if someone knocks it over tbh

[frosty shard]

That's why I don't set up on the main street where all the bars are lol

[frosty shard]

People are really respectful of my equipment tbh

There's also a decent police presence near where I set up so I don't worry very much about anyone intentionally trying to cause me trouble

[harsh matrix]

Because changing focuser position while guiding causes blips in the guide graph which can make the software try to compensate for star movement which didn't actually happen

[brisk swift]

can't comprehend all dat

[harsh matrix]

If you start a new exposure while the software is confused you can get a messed up exposure on the following filter

[frosty shard]

Ah, I actually tested my filters out last night and it turns out they are parfocal (except my IR filter ofc)

so that's one less thing I have to worry about

[harsh matrix]

That'd be pretty lucky

[frosty shard]

Unless I need to keep a closer eye on the focuser tolerances than I've been doing, which is totally possible

[harsh matrix]

Mine are supposed to be but my scope is so sensitive to filter changes that a different filter has a very obvious sign of being out of focus relative to the others.

[frosty shard]

I'll have a more rigorous result when I can get NINA's Bahtinov analyzer to not give me garbage

[tight lodge]

Filter offset can fix that

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[frosty shard]

seriously NINA needs more drugs or less, I can't tell which

[harsh matrix]

Assuming I didn't configure it wrong

[runic violet]

Processing

[tight lodge]

feels like she had em all XD

[harsh matrix]

holy sharp

sharp mofo

Oiii calibrated perfectly

ive had issues with it in the past since it lets more light pollution through

didnt this time

[tight lodge]

You need an EAF asap😂

[tight lodge]

Oooo the OIII looks nice

[tight lodge]

But the Ha . I know you can do better

[harsh matrix]

for signal?

yes

just a little bit of blurX

wait that wasnt bxed lmao

this is Bx'd

it's only 55 minutes of Ha

[tight lodge]

Sharp

Wait...

[tight lodge]

Can you combine mine with yours if I send it to you?

[harsh matrix]

Yeah but I need to go run errands and quit stalling

[tight lodge]

Oh come on... mine is decenly sharp and has a ton of signal. Yours is sharp but lacks signal... if we combine them we get a crazy result

[tight lodge]

Here's the Ha, you can do whatever you want with it. this is straight out of the camera. no NoiseX, no BlurX... nothing.

[frosty shard]

Check that Bahtinov mask result again ;)

[tight lodge]

but the Bathinov plugin... he doesn't like to behave 😂

[frosty shard]

True, but I'm somewhat capable of centering a diffraction spike

[frosty shard]

Wait I got mininerd

Whomst did that

[vapid patio]

Pretyy

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/that-hot-thats-hot-thats-hot-flipped-that-hot-flipped-that-hot-inverted-gif-19052204

[brisk swift]

Someone already designed a 3d printable cycloidal drive mount @frosty shard

[frosty shard]

Yeah I did see that at one point

[brisk swift]

but no one has yet to make a cycloidal and differential drive hybrid

[harsh matrix]

i feel like the atmosphere parted ways while i was shooting

the stars actually look fake

[frosty shard]

They're broadcasting signals to us in a classic cartoon fashion

[harsh matrix]

this is the full extent of the signal i got last night

after some denoise

[oblique sun]

tbh im kinda starting to doubt if i should get an rc, originally i saw crazy stuff with them and thought it was the scope that was crazy but i feel like its just seeing now

i doubt id get anything close to the crazy rc images i see bc i usually have shit seeing

[harsh matrix]

how bad are we talking?

[oblique sun]

like how many arcseconds are those fine details

[oblique sun]

jupiter often looks like soup

[harsh matrix]

oh no

that's like 4 to 5" seeing range

yeah that's not great for an RC

you can manage, esp with a RC6, but not going to be nice on the scope

[oblique sun]

the thing is i am a galaxy enjoyer too so i want high fl but my skies dont allow it 😿

[oblique sun]

is it gonna be blurred

cause if its really that bad id rather step down to a reduced f/4 newt than increase my fl

rn i have 750mm fl

[runic violet]

wtf is going on this is way too much

ringing

I've never seen this scope have this much

[harsh matrix]

lmfao

i couldnt tell you man

[harsh matrix]

it will always be blurred yes

[oblique sun]

they kinda look elongated to me

[harsh matrix]

you will not be able to get around that

[harsh matrix]

theyre slightly elongated due to astigmatism yes

[runic violet]

lol thursday i can look into the archives and see how the RC8 was performing

but i don't recall even noticing any ringing at all

[harsh matrix]

at the altitude this target was at for most of the time i shot at, there was a good amount of astigmatism present

[runic violet]

fwiw my scope has almost none even in narrowbad

[oblique sun]

ik itll be blurred but at an rc6 fov do you think the image will look blurry or just when you zoom in

i worded that horribluy

[harsh matrix]

wack wtf

[oblique sun]

i mean that yes the atmosphere will blur it and the scope wont reach its full potential but is it going to be obvious in the image and look blurry

[harsh matrix]

that depends on a ton of factors tbh

depends on if you intend to shoot reduced or not

i think you said you would, so in that case, it wouldnt be too unmanageable imo

[oblique sun]

probably will on most nights but occasionally i do get ok seeing like once a month

and for the first few months i will probably not be reduced bc i think switching to mono comes before that

[runic violet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/247347265226801153/1261794909539795065/image.png?ex=6823b815&is=68226695&hm=4096646d21a2faf7cbed27781defc6d80dfb9eee8aa33c1d74b7110ede3331dd&

ignore the overdone blurx

but this was RC8 + RC10 data

[harsh matrix]

it's probably too dim to really tell but this is what it looked like when i had bad seeing, shooting narrowband

3.5" stars

this project came out like this

[harsh matrix]

this looked bad in the subs initially too

so if you shoot reduced, it'll be a lot easier to manage

[oblique sun]

it looks a little bit blurry but only when looking closely

wait i thought you said these rings appear when youre diffraction limited

[harsh matrix]

i think there's a slight amount of ringing on this star

[harsh matrix]

i did say that

under incorrect information

[runic violet]

that is incorrect

[harsh matrix]

a bad case of confirmation bias got me

[oblique sun]

so is it just reflections or smth

[harsh matrix]

nope

[runic violet]

Pretty sure that's a double star but I need to go back to the raw data

Anyways I feel like I would have noticed

If it was as bad as yours

[harsh matrix]

it's not split in mine, so if that is a double star, that's only from the RC10 resolving it

[harsh matrix]

it's caused by the relatively large central obstruction that RC telescopes have

[runic violet]

the difference is not that big between apertures

if anything it would be seeing but idk

[harsh matrix]

it's way easier to get them with an RC6 than any other size RC since the RC6 has the largest CO

[runic violet]

probably not a double

[harsh matrix]

[harsh matrix]

could be but you would have had to have had nuts seeing

mine was a bit above average (better) last night

[runic violet]

I usually get 2-2.5" fwhms

[harsh matrix]

mine is smack dab in the middle of that

this signal is so much stronger than last years 😭

the ringing with more channels added isnt as oppresive lmfao

[runic violet]

use RGB stars like a cool person

[harsh matrix]

i will once i get the bulk of the project out of the way

afterall, that's one of the biggest reasons i bought a reflector

[runic violet]

that star is one of the few purple stars in the sky

i'll let you rack your brain to figure out how that's possible

[harsh matrix]

"whEn ArE yOU AdDiNG RGb sTaRS?"

[runic violet]

ok i mean actually purple

[harsh matrix]

is it bad that it looks worse than i remember?

😭

[harsh matrix]

ill have to go dig around the interwebs to find the answers

i dont even really know how or what would cause that atm

sounds like a fun research project to do over the crescent this year

i researched it some last year too because it's cool

[runic violet]

hehe

[runic violet]

ok its not that deep it won't take very long

[harsh matrix]

i actually wasnt sure if you were that serious, i mean i thought you were but i didnt want to believe it

that's awesome

[harsh matrix]

man

i wanted a mystery

[runic violet]

the star is wr136

[harsh matrix]

yup

jfc wtf

less than 2 hours

mono = cheating

[frosty shard]

after finding out how wacky SHO star colors turn out...I actually like how they look

[harsh matrix]

Broadband looking like that is ugly

Imo

Seeing looks to be excellent tonight

[frosty shard]

@harsh matrix (and others who use ASTAP) do you run into issues with plate solving globulars?

[harsh matrix]

I don't think I could have collimated better if I tried

The red dot thats moving around is tracking Coma, aka where your secondary needs to be moved lol.

The fact that it's inside the disk of the star most of the time means it's perfect.

Air currents will throw it off occasionally but there should not be a directional bias.

[harsh matrix]

No

Which one are you trying to solve?

[frosty shard]

Last night I could not solve M13 or M5. I might pull the rig out tonight but the weather isn't great

In part to test out this issue

ASTAP just chokes and it tries to blind solve, and then it fails

[harsh matrix]

Yeah I didn't have any issues solving M13

Weird

[frosty shard]

Though I just remembered. When I dropped the FITS into ASTAP to solve, it worked fine

There's something up with the handover from NINA to ASTAP

[harsh matrix]

Have you told Nina what the focal length of your scope is?

[frosty shard]

Yup

It plate solves fine on anything that's not a globular

[harsh matrix]

that's really strange

[harsh matrix]

btw i just got some material i can cut up and turn into a little light blocking sock for the back of my focuser

assuming it works as it should when i make it, there should be no risk of light leaks in the focuser anymore

then i can pull out the parts i put inside the focuser to stop that leak with no risk of anything getting caught or stuck

speaking of which

i can afford a new focuser now...

im thinking about getting this as a long term solution while i wait for a feather touch of the right specs to circle around on the used market

the reviews are good with people basically torture testing the thing and finding 0 play in it overall so i think it's a good buy

@frosty shard we need to do an M33 mosaic once it is time

also im going to shoot NGC 206 in Andromeda

I want to see how much structure I can resolve in that part of the galaxy

btw @frosty shard your stars still dont look quite focused here

i wonder if your bahtinov analyzer addon is actually accurate and the visuals are wrong

[frosty shard]

It wasn't working at all. I was just going by eye

[harsh matrix]

oh my

[frosty shard]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1371584077442056314/1371646306455519364/m16.png?ex=6823e4ab&is=6822932b&hm=048175b00af782920f43f5a8d8316fe21c6320cf4606985fd70b58c9919b87bb&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1430&height=1430
I also wonder if I just didn't stretch the stars well in the first image

It's probably still not focused well enough though

[harsh matrix]

it's not focused well no

the centroids look like rings in the Ha channel i think

possibly all 3

they should look more like this

your stars can be stretched a lot more too

but theyre not focused that well anyway.

[frosty shard]

Well I think I realized the problem. I keep forgetting to lock the focuser

[harsh matrix]

OH FUQ

yeah that'll do it

especially if the tensioning isnt enough to keep it from slipping

M101 is so pretty

this is one of the rare cases where BX correct only is oversharpening the image

[frosty shard]

I did turn up the tension a bit but I'll still make sure to check focus more often too besides remembering to lock the focuser

[harsh matrix]

I normally get the tensioner as finger tight as I can, and then use an allen wrench to do a quarter turn, and then round it off with another eigth turn

it get enough bite that way to get consistent filter offsets as well as a very good focus curve

this is a really nasty example of the microlense explanation + what we know as CO modulation

theyre merging together to create a monster

[frosty shard]

Microlensing from the pixels?

[harsh matrix]

yup

i wonder if the CO modulation is so aggressive in my images because of how im sampling during data acquisition...

[harsh matrix]

oh god this is a star in Ha too

imagine getting such bad microlensing that you arent even free from it in H-alpha

[frosty shard]

yeah this is about what I've done and it works well for visual too

[harsh matrix]

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/769710-another-i-hope-final-explanation-for-annular-rings-on-stars/page-11#entry11251276

he really did simulate it

[harsh matrix]

the finally post on this thread notes what i observed

the CO modulation pattern being present even when collimation was bad

[ripe crystal]

I have the same skies

Probably

Dont find an excuse not to buy an RC

[ripe crystal]

Perfect sampling doesnt exist here

[vapid patio]

Wow

[harsh matrix]

i forgot to put crescent nebula in my sequencer last night

😭

[tight lodge]

How dare you?

[brisk swift]

many peeps are facing your problem even with a baffle extension , is it worth buying a rc they seem kinda sus @harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

idk

HPS said the same thing

you can work around it about 90% of the way with sky flats

it's also only an issue with a reducer, and possibly in light pollution

[brisk swift]

man people are having the same issue with a 4k usd scope (12" rc ) wtf

weird.

[harsh matrix]

[tight lodge]

Let me guess. Apertura?😅

[brisk swift]

nah gso

[tight lodge]

Welll... I guess that's the premium brand trap

[brisk swift]

I think WO RCS don't have this problem?

not to mention they cost 10s of thousand of dollsr

[tight lodge]

I would clarify astrophotography stuff in 3 categories.
Cheap but in need for upgrades. Example, Q150P, 130PDS and so on.
Top tier like apertura, Celestron HD and so on
And then observatory grade

On something like a 150P, people design solutions specifically for the flaws in the system

Something like a Carbon Star... people expect to be ready to image out of the box. And shuffle back between the seller and customer for some flaws that none of them can figure out.

And the observatory level gear... if you mess up something of that tier, you are not getting away that easily. Thats why most telescope manufacturers avoid that territory. It's expensive, you can't go cheap and bluff the price and the market is low

Like TS-Optics are going towards the observatory lever gear. And idk why people just ignore that fact

I think my first RC is gonna be a truss tube from TS-Optics

[brisk swift]

get a William Optics RC

they are sharp ASF.

[tight lodge]

Naaah. I made up my mind

[tight lodge]

Plus it's literally the same OTA as the TS-Optics 254

[runic violet]

The William optics RC is GSO lol

[runic violet]

??

I'm not having any of these issues

[tight lodge]

So much for being unique

[brisk swift]

They seem different tho , even the optics wo ones have really sharp images

[runic violet]

What are you talking about

You can't really gather any info like that unless you have raw data

It's not like GSO scopes don't get "sharp" images

[tight lodge]

Different paint

[brisk swift]

Fray balls moment

[brisk swift]

but wo optics rc seem way sharper on astrobin

maybe I'm trippin

[runic violet]

I would like evidence to substantiate this claim

[brisk swift]

Why does the wo rc cost so much then

[runic violet]

And how much is that

Inb4 you're looking at the discontinued holder price

[brisk swift]

[runic violet]

Well how much

[brisk swift]

Its not available for me but someone on cn said it costs around 7kusd

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/908620-is-this-a-new-offering-from-williams-optics/

and the wo scopes truss look different from gso ones for some reason I'm trippin ig

[runic violet]

Focuser + reducer + WO charges more

It's not different

[brisk swift]

overpriced

[runic violet]

I think you have to remember if you find one guy using a scope and he cooks his images with Blurx you can't really conclude the scope is therefore sharper

[brisk swift]

uh I checked on astrobin and erm the wo ones looked a bit sharper compared to gso one ( I saw alot of pics and compared )

[tight lodge]

https://www.teleskop-express.de/de/teleskope-4/rc-ritchey-chretien-teleskope-75/ts-optics-gso-10-f-8-rc-teleskop-mit-carbon-truss-tubus-and-focuser-tilting-10815 i'd rather get this since is the same thing

[brisk swift]

[tight lodge]

this thing is also super light

[vapid patio]

@brisk swift are you new to rc gang?

[brisk swift]

I mean I'm lurking around , I'll be buying a rc soon ( yea i gotta save up a bit lmao)

[vapid patio]

Nah all good I just didnt remember

Well sick what rc you lookin at

[brisk swift]

RC12 if I'm successful in making da mount else I'll get RC10+cem70

[vapid patio]

Dang dude

Well sick

[brisk swift]

[harsh matrix]

mine has really sharp images too

33% of this data had seeing of 3.6 arc seconds

and that is not blur X'd

[harsh matrix]

astrobin isnt a good rule of thumb lol

[brisk swift]

i mean that's my only frame of reference for comparing scopes rn tbh

[harsh matrix]

i find i beat out the majority of images despite very mild processing

[harsh matrix]

that's alright but keep in mind that there's not a great way to compare them outside of physically having them

with the amount of tools out to help with data quality, you cant trust most of what you see

[brisk swift]

i

[harsh matrix]

blurx my beloved 😩

i have THE ground based HST

[brisk swift]

how much torque does the ra acess motor has in am5? I can't really find anything online @harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

oh Lukamatico used an RC10 for a while

he was one of the reasons i looked into RC's

[harsh matrix]

a dude by the name of James Lamb on youtube calculated that

it's in a video about how many counterweights you can use on the AM5

[brisk swift]

Ty

[brisk swift]

who is he

[harsh matrix]

TLDR; it's a lot of torque

i dont know how much though

[harsh matrix]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYM5pXCd_4I&t=1179s&pp=ygUbbHVrYW1hdGljbyByaXRjaGV5IGNocmV0aWVu

you know what

i want to get RGB stars for crescent

hopefully soon

[brisk swift]

I watched his vid like few months ago lmao

[frosty shard]

honestly Astrobin is full of overcooked images IMO, but I'm personally pretty minimalist with my processing taste

[harsh matrix]

there you go

[harsh matrix]

it is LOADED with bad images lmao

[brisk swift]

acc to da maths , the mount I'm making should have imaging payload of around 62kg @frosty shard

[frosty shard]

how heavy is the mount though?

[brisk swift]

very.

I'm thinking about getting the frame cnced by aluminium but it'll be lighter than a eq8r fs

or close to it

I think it weighs around 25kg?

[frosty shard]

I assume it's going to be permanently mounted?

[brisk swift]

yep

i wanna try and make the frame out of CF but yea I can't find any sources lol

[cedar fiber]

coolest telescope

[vapid patio]

Wow

[runic violet]

this is fundamentally invalid

unless you know you're looking for specific aberrations

and how to find it in the sea of blurx and bad processing

anyways if wind/torque is not an issue you may want to consider getting a newt

[harsh matrix]

I got more of the Ha to pop through

I want to revisit this with photoshop or Gimp though to see what else I can do.

[vapid patio]

https://tenor.com/view/thefit-firefit-fit-pants-spongebob-gif-26832978

[analog portal]

mspaint sux

[harsh matrix]

Man 😭

What did you do to my beautiful picture?!?!

[analog portal]

i microsofted it

[vapid patio]

Did a quick edit

[harsh matrix]

Guys wtf

😭

My pretty data is ruined

[brisk swift]

wind will be a issue

but why tho? Aren't rcs optically better?

I think I'll be getting a dome when I shift so idts wind would be a problem next uear

[brisk swift]

[harsh matrix]

optically yes

but if wind is an issue

optics dont matter

youre limited by your environment if wind is a problem

like wind for me isnt an issue if it's coming from the south/southwest or east because i have a fence, tree, and a house in the way of all of those directions, in that order

those all act as wind brakes.

if the wind comes from the north like it was last night, i am fuqed

which is why i ended up deleting 50% of my crescent data from last night

[harsh matrix]

this is by far the sharpest scope ive ever owned

i cant stop

[brisk swift]

wouldn't a newt be like a bigger prob in wind than a truss rc?

[harsh matrix]

[harsh matrix]

it could be but you will be imaging at a fraction of the focal length of a truss RC

so wind wont be as impactful as on an RC

[brisk swift]

Newt is basically a wind sail tho

u can probably sail with it fr

[frosty shard]

I coudl not image tonight due to wind

(and the return of clouds)

Come on man I'd rather have the new scope curse than the "hanging onto 9 minutes of data on M16 desperately wanting more" curse

Though I guess I could have done the SHO moon mosaic I was planning to do (for the memes)

[harsh matrix]

FR

you should try crescent

[frosty shard]

Already in NINA ready to go

[harsh matrix]

omfl

yeah so youre weather locked

just like me

[frosty shard]

The other target I have in mind is that I wanted to try doing a simple mosaic: 2 panels of the nape of the Pelican
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1310324748281974854/1372271568243392652/image.png?ex=68262afd&is=6824d97d&hm=354b49ee399afd11665cfd141b20315e352ff5b5fa656f5c3d8ef09b55e3ca51&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=1100&height=684

Or I might try the beak

[harsh matrix]

that would be really cool yes

[runic violet]

No

Both can perform just fine across a field, idk why you've been told differently

Coma is easily corrected by well coma correctors

[brisk swift]

but a 10" newt is way heavier than da truss rc

[runic violet]

It's the same weight actually

The truss newt

Just longer and faster, so not exactly comparable FL wise

[analog portal]

this is a fantastic target

one of my favorite images done with my rc tbh

(not for quality, but the object itself lol)

[tight lodge]

What target is it?

[analog portal]

pelican nebula

[tight lodge]

I'm glad that you shot it in SHO.

[analog portal]

I was centered on Herbig-Haro object 555, the tip of the dust spire

[tight lodge]

I might have a chance to resolve ir as well

[analog portal]

you most certainly can. i mean my fma180 pro came close 😂

[brisk swift]

the only newts that are selling in India is sw and gso and i think orion but I never saw a truss newt

It's available on HPS tho but taxes + tariffs go crazy

[tight lodge]

I think the most affordable truss tube newtonian telescopes that you can get are mounted on Dobsonian mounts. So adapting it to an EQ mount is not the easiest thing 😅

[brisk swift]

YEa

either ways a 16" truss newt is light asf ..

Compared to a 16" truss rc

[tight lodge]

Is it?

Idk how much is 16"

Oh damn... 400mm

I'll probably stick with 10"😅

A bit more compact and my mount can haul it

[brisk swift]

Yea I'll be sticking to 10" too (it's my first scope )

[vapid patio]

Look at all y'all rc8 and bigger

Mines got heart ok?

[tight lodge]

Cheater!

People with asi air don't have hearts

[vapid patio]

I'm just not ready to by a mini pc and go down that route 😭 and i got it for like 90 bucks

https://tenor.com/view/obito-gif-21748637

[tight lodge]

Trust me... it's a beautiful rabbit hole. Nina's warm UI and GSS's cool design and 3D model of your rig... that's when you feel the heart.

[tight lodge]

what these numbers mean? are the good?

i have no idea what i'm looking at

[frosty shard]

I believe you are looking at Pixinsight

So I think the eccentricity plots are telling you how elliptical your stars are

and the FWHM how wide they are

[tight lodge]

Well, the thing that confuses me is that i have no idea if the numbers are good or not. 😄

[harsh matrix]

FWHM is the full size of your stars

Eccentricity is how misshapen they are

Anything below 0.6 is pretty good, 0.3 is perfect

[tight lodge]

this is helpful. because i have a reference now.

[harsh matrix]

You multiply that FWHM by your sampling and you get your stars size in arc seconds

The closer you are to 0 the better

[tight lodge]

So in my case it would be 1.556 x 0.92... Right?

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[tight lodge]

And these things would represent the field illumination?

[runic violet]

No, what they represent is in the titles

Your flats represent field illumination

[harsh matrix]

No

Those are contour maps to show variations in star shapes across your field.

[tight lodge]

I get that. But as I said earlier, it's the first time when I use it, so I can read the title 10 times and not understand it. I lookd on some forums but... no help😂

[frosty shard]

I know the turf might mess with my guiding but what the heck

(it's just one of the closest places to me that isn't swamped in LED lighting)

[brisk swift]

bro the amount of lp damn

[tight lodge]

LED lights render LP filters useless

[frosty shard]

Alright I might have to pack it in for the night

My guiding just went to crap and I don't know why

[tight lodge]

Lp plus moon

I was there before

[tight lodge]

Do the moon in SHO

[frosty shard]

Oh yeah I will it's super nicely positioned

[tight lodge]

Why these 2 match? I don't want them to match

[analog portal]

https://tenor.com/view/what-the-hell-is-even-gif-20535402

[tight lodge]

I call it... the curse of the dust motes

[frosty shard]

@harsh matrix Found out why I couldn't plate solve globulars - it's a bug in ASTAP that's been fixed
https://www.hnsky.org/astap.htm#darks_tab

[vapid patio]

Ladies ladies

Im da king he he he

[frosty shard]

This is from all the data I could get last night (still haven't looked at the moon images)

[brisk swift]

Tight stars right there

[tight lodge]

Hα channel?

[frosty shard]

Yup just H-alpha

Only about 50 minutes total

[frosty shard]

This time I actually remembered to lock the focuser and the HFR stayed very consistent the whole time until the guiding worsened

The banding is a bit annoying though

[tight lodge]

You know what? I will try it tonight

I never shot it before

And that pillar structure at the bottom of your frame looks cool

[frosty shard]

I'm planning to do a mosaic - but perhaps you might want to shoot the other panel at
RA 20h 50m 45s
Dec +44° 17' 0"

then we can combine our data

Or wait you don't have an RC yet right? Either way it's a very interesting target

[tight lodge]

This is my Fov on it

[brisk swift]

[harsh matrix]

So did you have an old version and you updated or something?

[harsh matrix]

Those stars look significantly better

[frosty shard]

The fix came out yesterday!

Just updated it

[frosty shard]

my utter garbage process of the SHO moon

seeing was also absolute trash

[tight lodge]

Clouds

The forecast is clear...

Ooof... not good

[frosty shard]

oh that's just one of my experiments gone wrong

[oblique sun]

gone right*

[harsh matrix]

Wtf is that

[tight lodge]

I have no idea... but it's really bad. For an hour straight alarms were blaring... and now I hear explosions

[frosty shard]

I just realized I should have taken IR data too...ah well I'll do it once the moon returns to a more favorable declination...

this is probably overcooked

[tight lodge]

The colors don't look bad. Why they don't look bad?

[frosty shard]

Honestly I think the magic's in the O-III

[tight lodge]

Call me crazy... but for a 10minute sub... really good

I'm trying 240s now. The guiding... meeeh not my friend tonight either

[harsh matrix]

I do 10 minute subs routinely lol...

[tight lodge]

Definitely the SNR is crazy good at 600s

[harsh matrix]

Yes

I had the highest SNR I've ever seen by doing 5 and 10 minute subs lately

[tight lodge]

Well... so much for imaging tonight

[frosty shard]

I should bump up my exposure lengths for the Pelican huh...I'm at just 2 minutes

[tight lodge]

I can not shoot anymore

This is getting worse and worse

[harsh matrix]

Holy hell

[frosty shard]

New response just dropped

[vapid patio]

sho moon?

[vapid patio]

Chernobyl??? not again

[frosty shard]

Yeah I shot it in SHO palette

[vapid patio]

well thats fun

[vapid patio]

where did this happen? would like to look up what happend

prob made big news where you live

[vapid patio]

speaking of sho, you want my m16 sho?

[frosty shard]

Hell yeah

[vapid patio]

ok bet one sec

[vapid patio]

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/13Qk--1UBvpjkR5rDj9WMKC5PCA_kq2Kg?usp=sharing

[frosty shard]

Any chance you can provide this as a FITS? I don't use Pixinsight

[vapid patio]

Gay

Sure np

[frosty shard]

@harsh matrix I think I figured out why my guiding's been garbage

One of the set screws in my OAG came loose

[harsh matrix]

yes that will do it

😭

[frosty shard]

actually I think I was supposed to tighten this one a long time ago and never did

Also I need to tune the guiding parameters in PHD2, I forgot that's a thing you have to do

[harsh matrix]

yes you have to, that's not an option

especially for strain wave mounts

the defaults are as good as not guiding at all

[frosty shard]

I'm surprised I was able to get it down to below 1 arcsecond at all with my lack of attention to that

[frosty shard]

Are there particular settings I should change? (I know we have different mounts but if there's anything in particular I should pay attention to)

[harsh matrix]

the min mo for both axis, the correction algorithms, and possibly the longest guide pulse PHD2 can send to the mount

[frosty shard]

Did you just use the values from the calibration assistant or did you have to do more hand tuning?

[tight lodge]

Oh yes it did

[harsh matrix]

i had to do a ton of manual tuning

[harsh matrix]

yikes

[tight lodge]

[frosty shard]

Throwing this in here because it might be useful to someone in the future: a post about guiding strain wave mounts
https://bbs.warpastron.com/t/some-theory-of-autoguiding-strain-wave-hd-mounts/139

[brisk swift]

man I want RST300 , it looks so good.

the best strainwave mount imo

(look wise)

[tight lodge]

Only one small disadvantage

It literally costs a kidney

[brisk swift]

[runic violet]

@harsh matrix rc8 294 flat

[harsh matrix]

Reduced or not reduced?

[runic violet]

reduced

it was never run unreduced

[harsh matrix]

That still looks unusual tbh

But in a different way from my flats

Is that a lum flat?

[runic violet]

nothing particularly abnormal here besides strong vignetting

yes its lum

[harsh matrix]

Yeah that vignette is even worse than what I saw with my DSLR on my RC6

[runic violet]

its what you get with a 2" reducer far away from the sensor

[runic violet]

well unless i give you the illumination numbers you can' really say that

a stretched flat is not comparable

[harsh matrix]

[runic violet]

also this flat is ABEd so its even more meaningless lol

[harsh matrix]

Oh?

[runic violet]

i mean i abed because that's how you see the effect

that's not what the flat actually looks like lmao

#1326833769495269376 message

[harsh matrix]

Ofc

It does still look strange though

It's like the inverse of what I have

[vapid patio]

@harsh matrix You hear the news?

[harsh matrix]

What news

[frosty shard]

https://www.reddit.com/r/space/comments/1kp7i5e/i_photographed_the_pillars_of_creation_for_over/

[ripe crystal]

top

az

[harsh matrix]

The fov of my RC with a 571 is nuts

[vapid patio]

Could do planets

[harsh matrix]

Yes but there's no point

The frame rate would be horrific

[vapid patio]

Ohh fajr

[vapid patio]

Im a nina user now

I really am excited to learn it and get the minicam8

Asi585mc and a whole Lrgb sho set for 700

[harsh matrix]

🔥

[harsh matrix]

There ya go

[vapid patio]

Hehe yeah, do you think tomorrow you would be up to helping me set it up? Idk what im getting into fully yet

@harsh matrix You do use Nina if i remember right

[harsh matrix]

Yes

[harsh matrix]

I'm busy through Monday iirc

So no I'm not going to be available

[vapid patio]

Ahh all good thank you

[vapid patio]

@tight lodge yooooo

My mini pc is here

Down to help?

[tight lodge]

Sure

[vapid patio]

MY MAN

I'm gonna hop in a channel in Astro biscuit

[harsh matrix]

I'm very much busy atm

I could see the future Ig

[frosty shard]

@tight lodge https://rkblog.dev/posts/astronomy/lunar-petrographic-imaging-showing-minerals-and-age-colors/

I think I'm gonna try an IR/S-II/O-III moon image next

[harsh matrix]

My RC8 is having a rather random issue...

The knife edge baffles are slowly sliding down the inside of the tube.

So i need to find a way to fix that.

[frosty shard]

Thanks for pointing this out...I'm gonna have to keep an eye on my baffles lol

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

Ssame haha

[harsh matrix]

must be an old tube thing

rip

[vapid patio]

I just down even worry about ut

[harsh matrix]

i have to because theyre supposed to block the most extreme angles of stray light which i happen to have plenty of here

omg @tight lodge i forgot you sent data for me to play with for crescent neb

can you resend it?

been too busy to think straight

[analog portal]

mine are completely loose, they will slide back and forth 😬

[harsh matrix]

yikes

2 hours and 40 minutes now

[vapid patio]

Ahh ok yeah

I just use a dew sheild

https://tenor.com/view/bleh-cat-silly-cat-cat-sticking-tongue-out-gif-12332973546502369976

[frosty shard]

Looks like my RC has the baffles integrated into the tube? I'm not sure how they could slide around

[tight lodge]

@harsh matrix Here

[tight lodge]

Somehow... I messed up this one a while ago. But it does look interesting

[vapid patio]

lowkey rocking with the colors

[tight lodge]

Right?

[vapid patio]

wish this was the norm

oh and a kind man sent me all the files i needed

platesolver3 is a pain 😭

[tight lodge]

I will send you my D50 catalogue and we can try again

[vapid patio]

what do you mean?

astap is fine but just strugges with my slow setup

[tight lodge]

Hmmmm I doubt that

In about an hour and a half I should be home. We can try something that doesn't require your setup to be running

[vapid patio]

what do you mean?

[vapid patio]

i mean i got it to work fine last night it just took awhile

[tight lodge]

I want to test Astap

[vapid patio]

as if it has any star trails astap is like nah

but one i got it close enough to polar aligned it went quick

[vapid patio]

hm ok

[tight lodge]

Small star trails, slightly out of focus... all of them are enough to prevent it from plate solving

[vapid patio]

im just used to asiair and asiair is a brick

you can trow 2 stars at it and it will get it done

[tight lodge]

If you can drive an RC car, that does not mean you can drive a real car. I think I don't need to explain it

[vapid patio]

what

that doesnt really make sense

[tight lodge]

Imagine ASI air being the RC car. While it's easier to use, it doesn't compare with how much NINA can do.

[vapid patio]

oh yeah haha that made no sense

im still gonna use nina lol

[tight lodge]

Let me explain in more of a American way. Don't bring a knife to a gun fight

[vapid patio]

more like dont bring a knife to a school shooting

thats more American

[tight lodge]

[vapid patio]

sadly thats the usa i live in

since im homeschooled, does that make it a school shooting, or a robbery?

[tight lodge]

Hmmmmm.... I'd rather not talk about it

[vapid patio]

ok ok 😭

[tight lodge]

I mean we have enough brain rot in the general chat... this is a secret den where we can be smart... ish

[vapid patio]

ahh yes ofc

[tight lodge]

@harsh matrix Do you like my rings?

[harsh matrix]

Thats a weird looking halo and CO modulation rings.

[tight lodge]

Why you making fun of my halo?

[analog portal]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-i-can-see-your-halo-emma-heesters-halo-singing-song-cover-gif-17029629

[tight lodge]

Do you know how hard it is to make them concentric?

[thorny path]

Cool colors

[frosty shard]

Finally, it's clear tonight!

[frosty shard]

@harsh matrix do I get O-III or NIR data on M16 tonight

[harsh matrix]

go for Oiii

youll need to spend much more time to get a decent NIR image

[frosty shard]

I'll probably get more NIR data when the moon is waxing again

[harsh matrix]

exactly

good time

[frosty shard]

I'll try a test exposure before taking down the rig though

I still haven't actually used my NIR filter

[harsh matrix]

dooooo iiiiiiit

although M16 in NIR isnt very interesting

not without extensive integration

Lagoon will give you a good sense of what NIR does though

[frosty shard]

What if I tried Barnard's Galaxy

[harsh matrix]

do it

im going to shoot it when it rises high enough

[frosty shard]

Tonight?

[harsh matrix]

no later this summer

[frosty shard]

I'm guiding around 0.55" and my HFR in H-alpha is 4.7 or so @harsh matrix

[harsh matrix]

that's either some pretty horrific seeing or bad focus

although the guiding is great

[frosty shard]

You know what, I may know what the problem is, especially since HFR has been spiking

There's a coal fired plant just to the south of me

[harsh matrix]

shoot

that could be it

[frosty shard]

Have you factored in that I'm shooting at native focal length

[harsh matrix]

yes

[frosty shard]

What HFR should I target?

Oh also...I just realized I was supposed to adjust my tilt but I forgor 💀

[harsh matrix]

oh no

[harsh matrix]

id say anything 3.5 and below

[frosty shard]

It's not terrible but I just need to adjust one screw

[harsh matrix]

which will be difficult without an autofocuser to get that fine adjustment

[frosty shard]

6 minutes on Barnard's Galaxy (thanks Starlink)

[harsh matrix]

it's there

[frosty shard]

I also took this after astronomical dawn

[frosty shard]

My stars look like beach balls of death

[vapid patio]

Where galaxy?

[harsh matrix]

i know it would be a good idea

especially since i have a 571 on the way

but my wallet

😭

[tight lodge]

there

[vapid patio]

@analog portal CCDT67 is it a good idea?

[analog portal]

yes

[vapid patio]

from what point do i measure backfocus? like i dont have threads on the back of my telescope i have a 2" compression ring

[analog portal]

the spacing i was using only took me down to about f/6 with it. i think around 1280mm focal length

[vapid patio]

can i just slide it in and out of my 2" compression ring until i see fit?

[analog portal]

spacing is from the center of the optic to the sensor of the camera

[vapid patio]

oh its a to the sensor not a to back of telescope

[vapid patio]

150mm of space?

[analog portal]

well, from the reducer to the sensor

[vapid patio]

yeah

so what do you have yours at?

[analog portal]

the dotted line is the spacing from the rear flange if that helps

[vapid patio]

ah

[harsh matrix]

this confirms i have my backspacing set wrong then

[analog portal]

my backspacing was 45mm from rear of flange to sensor

[harsh matrix]

a reducer on an RC doesnt necessarily work the same way it may work on other scopes ig

[analog portal]

at 55mm it was like .76x with the mono setup

[vapid patio]

that graph makes no sense haha

[harsh matrix]

the 55mm specified for my reducer does not result in the full 0.67x reduction

its closer to 0.8x

[analog portal]

80mm from the rear of the ccdt67 to your sensor gets you the .67x reduction

[harsh matrix]

i have the apertura reducer for RC's

[vapid patio]

ah

[harsh matrix]

it's supposed to be 0.67x reduction @ 55mm of back space but wasnt on my RC6 or my RC8

i need to push my camera back farther

i wonder if it will mitigate or eliminate the illumination anomaly

[vapid patio]

hm good idea

[harsh matrix]

youll be dealing with it too i bet if you do get it

[vapid patio]

uh oh

[harsh matrix]

at least the forced increase of back space reduces the likelihood

[vapid patio]

do you have any weird circle problems?

[analog portal]

not that i noticed

[harsh matrix]

what bortle do you shoot in

and how often with the moon?

[analog portal]

bortle 6 mostly

[harsh matrix]

you should be getting it if it's not back space related

[analog portal]

oh i don't even know, i'd have to check astrobin about the moon. i shoot when it's clear, which is rare as *****

[harsh matrix]

so if you dont have that illumination anomaly, it means the extra back focus is eliminating it

[analog portal]

i shot without it and with it, didn't notice any anomoly.

[harsh matrix]

lucky mofo

[analog portal]

the flats for the imx492 were sketchy as hell though, which is why i decided to sell it

[harsh matrix]

[vapid patio]

and how much quality do you lose? if any

[harsh matrix]

typical 294 mono problems

[analog portal]

by reducing?

[vapid patio]

yeah

like softness or anything

[analog portal]

probably unnoticeable in my avg to below avg seeing 😅

[vapid patio]

haha fair

[analog portal]

lemme check and see if there are some subs i can examine

[vapid patio]

ok yeah i wanna know because this is a cheaper reducer but people seem to love it

hehehha

heheha

I WILL BE BETTER THAN VEL

[analog portal]

i only have subs from the 533. would this anomaly you speak of show up in stacked results?

here's a sub from the 533mc pro ... with the stupid banding on the left 😦

[harsh matrix]

it would show up in subs and stacked images

[harsh matrix]

yeah you dont have it

you lucky mofo

i guess back spacing is a definite factor then

[vapid patio]

HOPEFULLY I HAVE THE SAME LUCK

sorry for caps whoops

[harsh matrix]

that means you do 90mm of back spacing for the 0.65x reduction

and you will unironically end up with better images than me lol

[vapid patio]

i would like 0.67 i think

[harsh matrix]

80 mm

[vapid patio]

i dont have rgb filters yet only narrow band haha

[harsh matrix]

doesnt matter

i get the stupid ring anomaly in Oiii

it doesnt leave me alone

[vapid patio]

wait till your 571 comes in

[harsh matrix]

been waiting

[vapid patio]

maybe if I the reducer is good you can pick one up

[runic violet]

Time to give my unsolicited opinion on reducers

[vapid patio]

they are flooding cloudynights if i remeber correctly

[vapid patio]

yesss

[runic violet]

You have no money: ccdt67 on cloudynights or aliexpress

[vapid patio]

real

[runic violet]

You have some money: apex 0.65x

You have a lot, a lot of money: you should use a newt

[vapid patio]

i don't like your opinion

we dont got coma

and feild curry

[harsh matrix]

i dont like this opinion

[runic violet]

A newt is faster and well corrected with coma correctors but you have to pay lots of money to get half decent mechanics and a giant mount

[harsh matrix]

i kind of hate my newts

[analog portal]

i had so much trouble balancing my newt.

[runic violet]

Is your newt a $5k custom newt from Europe

And can you afford a 10k mount

[harsh matrix]

i havent heard the greatest things about those lol

[runic violet]

They're still functionally better than a GSO rc, the equivalent upgrade for a RC is a CDK

It's all money

[analog portal]

it's tough for me to justify spending more than $2500 on a single piece of equip. considering how often i am able to use the stuff.

[runic violet]

Gso RCs are just bang for the buck

[runic violet]

I don't use newts for a reason

[harsh matrix]

i dont like spending more than 1k on anything

[analog portal]

i'd like to get a new mount, but who's going to buy my gem28 lol

[harsh matrix]

and i normally have the weather to justify it

[runic violet]

I know that a 16" f/3 newt is theoretically better than my 10" RC

I also know I couldn't get one

[harsh matrix]

fr

[vapid patio]

real

[runic violet]

Only your rc is below 1k lol

[harsh matrix]

exactly

[runic violet]

Clearly you don't dislike it enough

[runic violet]

Ditto for a 12" f/4

[vapid patio]

got mine for 100

best 100 ever

[harsh matrix]

this case is/was special

cause your friend had it at a good price, and this scope is insane

it is bonkers

[runic violet]

No

Your camera and mount are over 1k

[vapid patio]

mount i got for 600

camera 400

sorry 100 over lol

[harsh matrix]

I had help with my mount

didnt do it on my own

and i got my camera when it was on sale for 800 USD

my 571 that is on the way is my first time spending over 1k at once since i started the hobby

[runic violet]

I meant 571

[harsh matrix]

o

[runic violet]

I'm not talking to you though

[vapid patio]

hehe

[harsh matrix]

the 571 was planned in though

[vapid patio]

yeah vel pshh

[harsh matrix]

because i know enough about the thing to justify the price, plus ill be using it like every clear night for an indefinite amount of time

[runic violet]

Full frame isn't worth it on gso RCs

[harsh matrix]

ofc

the mirror flop makes them useless

[runic violet]

No?

Truss and decoupled rcs are included in that categorization

It's sampling/image circle math

[harsh matrix]

im gonna get a full frame camera to use on my quattro 150p

[runic violet]

I mean that works

Just buy a new secondary and focuser and coma corrector

[vapid patio]

new fov what we think?

[harsh matrix]

I was kidding ofc

I'm not really ready for full frame

The file sizes will be a nightmare

[runic violet]

Ah yes file size

That's the problem

[harsh matrix]

Goes hard

I do want a full frame camera

[runic violet]

Why tho

[harsh matrix]

I genuinely think my RedCat 51 can handle it because it can do APS-C with perfect corners

BUT

I do want to do wide sweeping Milky Way panos with a nice wide lens

Shooting the MW is a lot of fun

It's a pain on APS-C even with the widest lens I can get because they're not very sharp and the sensor is so cropped in.

I don't have much of an interest in using one on a reflector system but if I were to get the equivalent of an Esprit 150 in the next 10 years, I would use it with that for sure.

I hope to be somewhere thats closer to a bortle 4 or lower then as well

I can't stand light pollution at this level anymore. I'm losing it.

[runic violet]

What lens

[harsh matrix]

I wanted a rokinon 14 mm

was told that even on APS-C theyre terrible

I wanted some 20 mm or 24 mm but they didnt look like they were going to be good

[runic violet]

You know it's far cheaper to get a more expensive lens than FF