Rokinon/Samyang 135mm discussion

[winter herald]

lol fr

[fallow stirrup]

Hi

[summer kernel]

My first actual attempt at imaging with the Roki from last night!

The stars are so small and defined (kit lens pains)

[civic mirage]

Nice looks like you got some OIII

Atleast it looks that way

[summer kernel]

Yes I think I did

4h 20m from B7 with unmodded camera, this lens is really nice

oh l-enhance too

thats important

[civic mirage]

Oh yii, l enhance explains the oiii

[summer kernel]

ye

[civic mirage]

Isnt this good lmao?

[summer kernel]

yes it is, I'm saying my old lens's stars were huge and bloated

[civic mirage]

Ahh

Makes sense

[summer kernel]

also the chromatic aberition was insane

how do you spell that

[civic mirage]

Abberation

[summer kernel]

the comas were 5x the size of the bloated stars

[civic mirage]

Oh dam

That's rough

My nikkor 55-200mm did surprisingly well wide open, just wasn't sharp.

[summer kernel]

yeah

I have the Rebel T7

and I got the kit with a wide and zoom lens

The stars were even pretty bad in the middle

[summer kernel]

Those are nice stars

[summer kernel]

This is a heavy crop btw

[civic mirage]

I did have to do the usual invert - SCNR - invert to get rid of slight purple fringing

On the stars only image of course

[summer kernel]

Is that a pixinsight thing?

[civic mirage]

Nah you can do it in SiriL

Simply invert the image then apply SCNR - and finally invert again

Instead of SCNR removing green, it removes purple hues due to the inverted colors

[summer kernel]

hm okay

[velvet lark]

Guys does anyone here who uses digicam control what what causes this temp error

[hazy copper]

use nina?

[velvet lark]

I use a dlsr so Nina’s out of the question

[uneven compass]

Why? Nina works with most dslrs

[gleaming flare]

if your cam works with digicam it works with nina too. get the ascom.dslr driver

[civic mirage]

Also if you have a Canon it's natively supported by nina

Nikon as well iirc

Idk about other cam brands, but the ascom driver would likely work for the others.

[gleaming flare]

Not all nikons are supported

[civic mirage]

Yea I believe some canons may not be supported either.

Natively anyway

But idk whether the ascom driver changes that

[gleaming flare]

it does

[patent dove]

roki setup

[hazy copper]

Tall boi

I need a UMi

And I need to make some custom aluminium rings.

And buy a proper guide scope.

[winter herald]

purchase a UV/IR , it’ll give you stars like that

[summer kernel]

The Canon camera I use has one built in

[winter herald]

oh

[summer kernel]

But idk if it's a low quality one, it's a stock camera

[civic mirage]

In this case it's optical traits that make the difference. A lot of kit lenses have very bad correction for purple fringing.

My lens, even though it's a kit lens, has a bit less than most.

[winter herald]

ahh okay i see

[pine beacon]

guys, what cam should i buy with the roki?

[cosmic marlin]

astrocam or dslr ?

[pine beacon]

Astrocam

[cosmic marlin]

uh how much ur budget ?

[pine beacon]

Nothing over 1500€

[cosmic marlin]

oh tthe 533 or 585 should be decent, im using the 585 with roki atm

Lmc uses the 533 and 585 but says 585 is sharper iirc and recomends it over the 533

Cooled 585 would also be even better

for astrocam u will also need an adapter

[chilly ingot]

Can get a touptek imx571 for that money

[hazy copper]

Yeah get a 571

[grave marten]

~3h with imx571

[uneven compass]

The 533 is better, but also more expensive. 571 blows both out of the water

[cosmic marlin]

I didn’t mean a 1300$ 585

[cosmic marlin]

…

[uneven compass]

It certainly isn't a bad camera, just not worth it if you have the money to buy another/are able to save for a 533

[civic mirage]

i hope thats a joke

[uneven heart]

585 is ass for astro *

its great for planets

[civic mirage]

No one compares it to 1k plus astro cams. They compare it to cams at its price point, at which its very hard to beat.

[civic mirage]

I can agree that it's def better at planets considering even more expensive cams.

[grave marten]

what is a superior 300$ sensor for astro?

[gleaming flare]

???

"Ass for astro"
Apart from the small sensor its actually very very good

Great sensitivity, small pixels (i like them, but makes guiding harder), and low noise

I'll say this 533>585 but remember that 533 costs 2x the cost of 585

[hazy copper]

2x the sensor area plus cooling, 533 is better value, but 585 is cheap soo

[grave marten]

there are cooled 585 tho..course the cost rises

[radiant sentinel]

And it’s also a perfectly viable option for DSOs, hence why player one went to the effort to create a cooled version

Which yes, does have low noise. For the price it’s unbeatable. Comparable in price to a new DSLR but a much better performance

[radiant sentinel]

Too pricy 💀 yeah no, you absolutely will not find something as good for the same price. Sure enough used DSLRs are cheaper, but also produce worse data in comparison.

And not really low noise? How on earth have you worked that one out? Just look at the sensor specs…

And images produced for that matter…

And btw I’m not saying you can’t get good images from a cheap DSLR. This is just a comparison between sensor specs, likely data quality and price. If we’re talking about buying new, the IMX585 beats a similarly priced DSLR other than in the size of the sensor

[radiant sentinel]

Literally not true but whatever

[gusty rock]

Dslrs are very good

[radiant sentinel]

But an IMX585 is better

Just look at the sensor specs

[gusty rock]

as tp said dslr wins

[radiant sentinel]

Again, literally not true. Look at the sensor specs

[gusty rock]

that doesn't really help with anything, it is a planet camera. 😄

and not that suitable for deep-sky objects

[radiant sentinel]

You say all this about DSLRs been easier to use as if an astro cam is particularly hard to set up and use

[gusty rock]

well thats quite true tho

i have both dslr and cooled cam the dslr wins in portability!

[radiant sentinel]

Do a quick search of the deep space galleries before making claims like that

[gusty rock]

i'm about to do observatory in my backyard, so i don't need to setup all the cables again and again.

[gusty rock]

check the gallery too

reacting with emojis is quite immature tho

[radiant sentinel]

So is making silly arguments based on nothing

[gusty rock]

you are trying to argue that your 585 wins on dsos

[radiant sentinel]

“My”?

I own a 533

[gusty rock]

sorry "i meant 585 wins on dsos"

dont know what you use tho

[radiant sentinel]

It does. The sensor specs don’t lie, DSLRs have sensor size going for them and that’s about it

Well similarly priced DSLRs that is

[gusty rock]

yeah dslrs have limit in fov but, they are still kings!

[radiant sentinel]

Of course you could spend a fortune on a DSLR and have it be better, but that’s besides the point. A similarly priced DSLR will be worse than an IMX585

[gusty rock]

lol

[radiant sentinel]

The opposite of this is true 💀

[gusty rock]

as that tp_astro guy said the 585 is way much pricier than DSLRS

[radiant sentinel]

New? Not really. An entry level DSLR like the Eos 2000D is £400, pretty much the same price as an ASI585

Btw we should move to #💬-general-chat, this is way off topic lol

[gusty rock]

Why would you buy new, when you can get one for used. 🙂

[gusty rock]

I got it for about 200€ i guess?

in AUD also the shipping was ass

[cosmic marlin]

Are people rlly saying a 16yr old dslr is better then the 585

What shit are u smoking cuz I want some

[fallow stirrup]

Hi

[cosmic marlin]

It being a “planetary” camera doesn’t just limit it to planetary cuz of a name, my brother in Christ u are doing Astro with a dslr, if the name of the dslr was daytime camera would u only use it for daytime cuz the name says so ?

[fallow stirrup]

The 585 is great, better then every dslr unless it’s like a really expensive new full spectrum modded dslr

Tp hates the 585 for no actual reason

[cosmic marlin]

missing out

[radiant sentinel]

i don't get where all the 585 slander came from suddenly lol

[fallow stirrup]

Tp just doesn’t liek it cuz it’s called a planetary camera I believe lol

[radiant sentinel]

yeah lol

[cosmic marlin]

I bet if a dslr said it was only for daytime he wouldn’t use it

just cuz the name says it

[radiant sentinel]

if it was truly just a planetary camera, the pro version of the uranus-c wouldn't exist. it clearly has a use for both

[cosmic marlin]

Once I cool mine I will be unstoppable no need for noisy af dslr

[radiant sentinel]

going from a DSLR to a cooled cam is an awesome jump. no more dealing with 30c+ sensor temps during the summer lol

or even higher in warmer climates i guess

[cosmic marlin]

30c during summer is so cold

Me dealing with 45+ 😅 (send help)

Dslr with that sensor temp is oml

[radiant sentinel]

yeah it's very much a UK moment calling 30c hot

[hazy copper]

@gusty rock @gusty rock do you are have stupid?

I went from a astromodded DSLR to a Uranus C. Huge upgrade

If you don’t own it, you don’t have an opinion on if it’s good or not.

[fallow stirrup]

Didn’t you say the d750 was stock

[chilly ingot]

dslr's are dslr's. cheap entry to get a decent aps-c chip. need to be high on several substances to think it will have compareable noise performance or other specs versus astrocams for same money

at some pricepoint dslr's are waste of money, paying for autofocus stuff than sensor

585 is one of the best sensor for a roki. fight me 🥊

[radiant sentinel]

Sure. Other than the higher quantum efficiency, Ha sensitivity, and cooled sensor in the case of the pro version. I can go on if you want

[uneven compass]

It's great for the price

Once again, I think generally I'd recommend saving and going for a 533 or 571

[chilly ingot]

sony starvis2 tech sensor is really high end

these are basicly industrial sensors in astrocams

dslr chips take pics of grass

[radiant sentinel]

Tbf 585, 533 and 571 all produce excellent FOVs on the roki. Different, but all good in their own ways

[uneven compass]

Astrocams are just objectively better for ap lmao

[gusty rock]

yeah the 585 is quite bad for dsos

[uneven compass]

I would still recommend starting on a dslr, but to say that they are better just makes no sense

[uneven compass]

Not necessarily bad, but I agree the sensor is very small for my taste

[radiant sentinel]

You keep saying this with nothing to back it up

[gusty rock]

Dslr doesn't win a dedicated astrocam, but some dslrs can easily get better images than with that 585

[gusty rock]

i said its not good choice?

[chilly ingot]

easily?

[gusty rock]

and every other people said so

you still keep arguing about this

[chilly ingot]

what kind of a dslr we talking about if it "easily" beats a 585

[radiant sentinel]

Read above, other than a few people it’s pretty much universally considered a good choice for DSOs

[gusty rock]

most of them can do better images 😄

[chilly ingot]

i smell in the air there is money to buy several 585's to get a dslr to beat a modern astrocam

[radiant sentinel]

And also read into the sensor tech/specs and compare it to a similarly price DSLR

[gusty rock]

look at the images from the 585

[radiant sentinel]

…I have

[chilly ingot]

i have, they are really good

[radiant sentinel]

Images on their own aren’t much use anyway. There are so many factors to consider there. Optics, sky conditions and processing skill all will impact how good a final image is. It’s better to compare specs IMO

[chilly ingot]

i can spot a dslr image miles away from its colour noise, banding and overall uneven sensor

[gusty rock]

585 would not be a good buy for a beginner 🙂

[chilly ingot]

new astrocams = clean data

[radiant sentinel]

Look, it’s harder to use and I can I see that argument somewhat. But it’s not THAT hard, like it’s easy to pick up

[gusty rock]

i own a DSLR it doesn't really have any banding or that much noise it would make the image that bad. Altrough astrocameras wins i wouldn't buy the 585 for dso as i own a better camera. Not going to say it couldn't do dsos many planetary cameras can do. 🙂

[chilly ingot]

astrocam data is so clean infact it helps defeat lightpollution abit. The gradients calibrate and dbe with ease

i can push histogram and trust i get the signal in the end

[radiant sentinel]

It’s so much easier to process Astrocam data too. Much cleaner and easier to bring fainter details from my experience

[gusty rock]

I have said few times that i own a DSLR camera and it is way more portable and easier to use than my astrocamera i need guiding,softwares and such which may not be ideal for a beginning astrophotographer.

gotta say i like imaging with my DSLR if i don't have time to setup the gear

[hazy copper]

Yes. I had a 700D

[chilly ingot]

using a 3.2" display and a intervalometer was the worst expirience i had imaging by miles

you just cant see if the frames are good

[radiant sentinel]

I disagree that it’s more portable. An Astrocam fits in a very small bag, particularly one using the IMX585. And the chances are a beginner will move to using computer control software ASAP anyway, so they might as well learn to use the camera from the start and get cleaner data

[chilly ingot]

my cooled 571 weighs less than my canon 5d2

in the winter my uncooled cam is 126grams

[gusty rock]

It is more portable as you need the computers and setupping it takes only several minutes. If you don't have one might not be ideal to say so!

With it, you can also take many types of astrophotography, such as shooting widefield.

[radiant sentinel]

I’ve owned both and controlled both with and without a computer, I’m speaking from my personal experience. A mini-PC can be used if portability is a concern, although that certainly is more complex

[hazy copper]

All with Uranus C.

[gusty rock]

Those are nice images!

[hazy copper]

My Uranus requires far far less setup than the DSLR. DSLR needs power connected and switched on, autofocus disabled and put in manual mode. Uranus is literally a single button to connect and start imaging.

[gusty rock]

That doesn't make sense

[hazy copper]

All taken with the worst camera ever made. Worse than a webcam and worse than a potato. /s

[gusty rock]

no its not worse

[hazy copper]

My DSLR images have significantly lower SNR.

[fallow stirrup]

That Horsehead image is lovely

[hazy copper]

The Uranus would match the dslr 10 hours signal in about 3 hours.

[gusty rock]

yeah you gotta mess with that, i've seen a lot better images with DSLR than those not just if planetary.

[hazy copper]

You’ll never get this signal strength with a dslr.

[gusty rock]

might be part of you, if you weren't able to take good pictures.

are you sure? 😄

i'd search a bit

[hazy copper]

It’s simply not possible. The sensor specifications limit it. Unless it’s full spectrum modded.

[gusty rock]

before commenting something that does not make anysense

[hazy copper]

Sir. What.

[gusty rock]

Exactly

[radiant sentinel]

It’s 100% true. The better sensor tech on a IMX585 means it will simply produce better quality data assuming the same shooting conditions and it’s a similarly priced DSLR

[hazy copper]

I am certain a Uranus C will beat a $400 DSLR in signal quality and strength.

[gusty rock]

no the 585 is not really suitable

[hazy copper]

Because I have used a $900 DSLR, and it gave worse images

Wider sure, but weak signal

[hazy copper]

Give your reasons

[uneven compass]

Lol I don't typically recommend the 585 outside of planetary, but to say that it's just an outright bad sensor doesn't really make sense

[gusty rock]

its not a bad camera

but not really ideal to recommend it any beginner

[uneven compass]

I wouldn't recommend any astrocam to a beginner

[radiant sentinel]

Again, what evidence do you have to prove this?

[uneven compass]

They are unintuitive if you don't understand ap

[hazy copper]

Well, maybe. But I had way more issues with a dslr. Connection issues, power issues, shutter shake issues.

[gusty rock]

It can do dsos and most of planet cams can do so

[radiant sentinel]

True, but also not terribly hard to learn. It probably depends on the person

[gusty rock]

the 700d might be bad choice then

[fallow stirrup]

There should be a 585 discussion forum

[uneven compass]

Its not really that. With an astrocam you have to use a computer, which introduces other things

[radiant sentinel]

I think there is

[gusty rock]

or either skills

[uneven compass]

I usually would recommend starting as simple as possible with a tracker and dslr

[fallow stirrup]

Yeah but this is a rokinon discussion forum lol

[radiant sentinel]

I know. Tried to move the discussion to general earlier but here we are again

[hazy copper]

I used a Nikon D750. Incredibly nice camera, massive FOV. But worse signal quality compared to the Uranus. Which is about half the price.

[gusty rock]

El em si said that you wouldn't be get pictures like that with DSLR but thats not really true.

[gusty rock]

Nikon and Canon cameras are good

[uneven compass]

Dslrs just aren't made for ap

[hazy copper]

It is though. Unless you astromod.

[gusty rock]

So isn't the one they are recommending, atleast for dsos.

[uneven compass]

Obviously there are some exceptions and you can modify to make them a bit better, but generally they will be beaten by any astrocam

[uneven compass]

It uses the same technology

[hazy copper]

It is quite literally impossible. The hydrogen signal will always have less SNR compared to the surrounding broadband areas.

[uneven compass]

And many of them are made for dso

[gusty rock]

but what is a good thing its really portable, easy setup, with astrocam you can't do widefield and dslr can do planetary too! 😄

[radiant sentinel]

It kinda is now though. Player one have released a cooled version, ZWO have one in development. It’s clearly capable for DSOs

[uneven compass]

The only places I'd recommend a dslr to a seasoned aper are for a travel rig, or if you needed ff without breaking the bank

[radiant sentinel]

And you can do widefield with an Astrocam. I’m not sure I’d recommend it outright, but you can

[gusty rock]

i have searched up instagram and here in discord gotta say those pictures are nothing compared to them.

[hazy copper]

DSLRs are far far worse at planetary than the 585 is for deep space.

[gusty rock]

You can do it with a year 2000 camera just wont take really good pictures

[gusty rock]

yes but you can still do it!

[uneven compass]

Astrocams just aren't made for a super light travel rig

Once again, if you needed that than a dslr is probably your best option

But only if you really wanted to cut down

No guiding, etc

[hazy copper]

You kinda can’t. Not effectively. A cheap AliExpress camera will give better images.

[radiant sentinel]

Eh, I bet you can get some pretty good pictures. It’s just not entirely practical with a fair amount of adapters needed and a non-ideal pixel scale produced usually

[gusty rock]

and i wouldn't either upgrade from dslr to that 585, instead get a better camera.

[uneven compass]

I'd recommend upgrading to a 533 lmao

[hazy copper]

Appreciate the compliment.

[gusty rock]

What to prefer "pretty good pics" 😅

[uneven compass]

I don't like the 585 that much either. But to say it's worse than a dslr just isn't right

[radiant sentinel]

533 would be a better upgrade for sure. But i’d personally go with the 585 over a cheap DSLR

[gusty rock]

for planetary its a king atleast what i've seen

[uneven compass]

I don't think that's even debated tbh

[gusty rock]

it can still produce way better pictures depending in the DSLR and target. In dslrs the fov could be problem as you don't get that close to the target than in uranus-c

but what he said, this is totally true. 🙂

[uneven compass]

That's not necessarily a good or bad thing

[hazy copper]

It’s not, there are other cams that fulfil other requirements better, but the Uranus is the best planetary camera on the market.

[uneven compass]

Imo a greater fov is generally good

[hazy copper]

The finer pixel scale was nice on the 585 I will say.

[uneven compass]

Mhm, if you need a fine pixel scale that's smth to consider

But once again that's up to preference more than anything. There are advantages to both

[gusty rock]

i don't really recommend to buy a 585 for dsos, to anyone.

[hazy copper]

But FOV hurt. Although, it was quite ok.

[uneven compass]

Me neither, lmao

But it isn't bad

[gusty rock]

its not bad

[hazy copper]

Wait till you hear about how bad the Ares C is for deep space.

[gusty rock]

just that most of planetary cameras can do deepsky as dslrs too.

[uneven compass]

Assuming you're being sarcastic lol

[gusty rock]

same lol

[uneven compass]

I don't know much about the ares, but 533 good

[hazy copper]

Correct lol

[gusty rock]

the ares c must be good one

[hazy copper]

The ares is the better cooler 533

[uneven compass]

Gotcha

[radiant sentinel]

it's good to see player-one and others providing competition to ZWO and producing better gear in some cases

[uneven compass]

Imo the best first astrocam is probably a used 533mc, just because you can get it for ~$600

[uneven compass]

Oh yeah, for sure

Do you have a roki?

[hazy copper]

Defo, however I got the Uranus for cheap, and I use it as a main planetary camera. Tried DSOs with it, and it was a good enough upgrade I stuck with it until I got a 533.

[uneven compass]

Roki

[hazy copper]

Oh, the slower worse Roki? Nice.

[radiant sentinel]

join the roki cult

[uneven compass]

Specifically the roki 533 cult

We need more recruits

[hazy copper]

Sir. You are buying a 40mm guidescope.

[uneven compass]

Roki will be way more capable

[radiant sentinel]

please give the roki 533 cult your data people 😄

[hazy copper]

F/2? Do you know how much light that is? Much more light gathering ability than your gross fat Newtonian.

[uneven compass]

F2 is like an astrophotography cheat code

[hazy copper]

2? Yes, 2.

[radiant sentinel]

F/2 is genuinely insane. the signal you pick up is incredible

[uneven compass]

Why?

Wide field is awesome

[fallow stirrup]

Fokinon

[hazy copper]

I was too narrow in a lot of cases with a full frame dslr and Roki.

[radiant sentinel]

no different to using an IMX571 and the roki really. it's wide, but it's still an awesome FOV

[uneven compass]

I find myself being too narrow more than I find myself being too wide

[radiant sentinel]

which DSLR?

[uneven compass]

Probably ff or apsc

Apsc I think

[radiant sentinel]

that's APS-C I think yeah

[hazy copper]

I thought you hated the Uranus, and now you are buying a worse one?

[radiant sentinel]

i should know having used one really, but here we are

[uneven compass]

It just refers to the sensor

Aps-c is a nice wide sensor

Don't buy a $200 astrocam

Please don't do that

[radiant sentinel]

it's asking for trouble lol

[grave marten]

do it

[uneven compass]

If you absolutely need to save money, buy a 585

But really go for a 533 if you can

[grave marten]

the 715 is interesting..its like the same FoV as a 2x balowed 585

[uneven compass]

Bro 💀

Don't buy that

[hazy copper]

You’ll get some signal in your noise if you are lucky.

[uneven compass]

You're kidding

For dso??

Oh thank god

[radiant sentinel]

omg

[uneven compass]

Because you will hate yourself for it

[gleaming flare]

585 is even good uncooled

Cooled is a lot better though

I use 585 uncooled, this is pretty good for bortle 7 and 60s subs eh?

[hazy copper]

You bought…. That camera… to use with a manual 16”?

Please tell me you are making an EQ platform

The EAA section of cloudy nights are worse than 4chan in 2012.

Oh good

Someone I know bought a 16” for planetary. But it was manual

Impossible hand tracking really

[civic mirage]

Well I'm glad we settled this

Maybe, idk.

I guess I should clarify, the 585 easily outperforms any DSLR at an equivalent price point, and that's based on data I've processed taken with the 585 and having used DSLRs myself.

DSLRs are easier to obtain as older models can be had for under 100, which is an advantage to beginners. That DOES NOT make them better in the aspects were referring to. Also obviously they are more portable for people who don't use a computer to control their rig, again, DOES NOT make them better in terms of data quality and sensitivity.

This being said, nothing is wrong with DSLRs, I used a 50 USD 450D for 1.5yrs and it's been fantastic for the price. Each camera has their uses, so people decide based off there needs, but that's not what were comparing here (at least I wasnt).

I can safely say in US market, DSLRs you find that are 100-200 are def older, meaning at least 5yrs old.

I stated that as well, I recognize the benefits DSLRs have.

Ok, would you agree were comparing sensor performance here?

Because that was the original argument

[gusty rock]

Quite pointless to start argue tho.

[civic mirage]

Correction, even DSLRs that are 5yrs old, can be hard to find below 500 USD.

[gusty rock]

and i said above that you can defintely get DSLR for the price of 200€, way less pricy than the 585. DSLR is great and in some point it can take better pictures than the 585 might depend on the target. I own a DSLR and it is much more portable than setupping all the cables etc. For beginner or anyone that wants to upgrade DSLR to a astrocamera the 585 is not something i'd recommend better to get a dedicated one which is made for dsos. Dslrs also can be used for different things such as widefield

[gusty rock]

I'd not really complain if i was you

i don't know about the united states but there might be online-stores like ebay or something.

[civic mirage]

Have you made a direct comparison between 585 data and and DSLR data?

[civic mirage]

Yes that's what I'm referring to

eBay especially

[gusty rock]

yeah i have found newer dslrs for that price range

the 585 is much pricier than them

i'd look at the deals before arguing

[gusty rock]

Yes i have.

😄

[civic mirage]

Final images or raw untouched data? Also which DSLR?

[gusty rock]

Final images but its kind depending on you

and the 585 is not ideal buy anyone who wants shoot dsos

we have already argued this to the end but you still keep arguing its quite pointless 😄

[civic mirage]

Well, unless they were the same integration time, bortle level, target, etc. it's quite hard to make a judgement comparing final images.

[gusty rock]

Yeah it depends a lot

but DSLRs are great!

i wouldnt recommend 585 either to anyone unless he wants do planetary

[civic mirage]

So it seems everyone here saying they wouldnt recommend the 585 hasn't ever used one?

[gusty rock]

You don't need to use one, to know if its suitable. Most of the planetary cameras can do dsos

just be shut up

everyone has said to stop and man still keeps arguin

dslr cameras are better choices at some points @gusty rock said it too

and they can defintely take better pictures

[civic mirage]

I almost bought one, but ended up going with a diff astro cam. I processed 585 data, watched other peoples reviews and of course considered the specs. Again, the sensor itself is better performing than any DSLR you can find for 300-400 USD.

[radiant sentinel]

This again, seriously?

[civic mirage]

Because blind statement keep being made, your saying DSLRs take better pictures but with no actual evidence.

Tell me, what kind of DSLR can you find for 300-400 in your market?

I'm curious

Genuinely

[radiant sentinel]

That’s this entire conversation summed up. Everyone arguing for the 585 has given clear reasons, and baring some subjective reasoning regarding usability there has been very little given for DSLRs

[gusty rock]

dslr doesn't really win astrocams

[radiant sentinel]

Indeed. They absolutely have uses, but they usually don’t. And that included those using the IMX585

[velvet sand]

I think dslr just has a lower entry price point cuz theres so many on the used market

[gusty rock]

but it doesn't make sense that you guys are arguing that you wouldn't be able to take better picture with the DSLR than the 585. Any planet camera can shoot dsos.

same as 585 can't take good pictures but it def can

[radiant sentinel]

Nah. It absolutely makes sense because the data from the 585 is better thanks to the better sensor

[gusty rock]

no it does not

[radiant sentinel]

This is true. DSLRs can be found incredibly cheap if you’re on a tight budget

[radiant sentinel]

Yes, it does. Look at the specs between similarly priced DSLRs

[gusty rock]

The specs is not helping

[radiant sentinel]

Then what do you propose to use for comparison?

Becuase I think they help very much. Straight facts

[gusty rock]

are you saying that no one has ever taken a better picture than the 585 using DSLR

[gusty rock]

Both can take

[velvet sand]

He is taking human error out of the equation tho

[radiant sentinel]

No, because the final image can depend on various factors. But assuming the same shooting conditions and integration time, the data from the 585 will absolutely be better

[gusty rock]

Huh?

[radiant sentinel]

?

[gusty rock]

The dslr final result still can be better than the results using the 585

[civic mirage]

I don't think these people understand what a proper comparison entails.

[radiant sentinel]

Once again, given the same conditions, the data from the IMX585 will be better than a similarly priced DSLR. The sensor specs are better, you can find these yourself and compare them

[civic mirage]

Any camera can create a better picture than another camera if more effort is put into it.

Doesn't mean the camera is better.

[gusty rock]

Yeah but the pictures are

[gusty rock]

Not really

[civic mirage]

I could take a better image with my 16yr old 450D than my ASi 1600mm if I put wayyy more integration time and effort into tge image (disregarding sharpness).

[radiant sentinel]

Exactly. If someone is shooting using a similarly priced DSLR at f2 from Bortle 1, then it probably will produce better than an IMX585 from Bortle 8. But if both are using similar optics under similar condition, then the IMX585 wins as it’s the better sensor

[radiant sentinel]

Yes really. If you think otherwise, provide some actual evidence

[gusty rock]

No it doesn't make sense that you couldn't

[radiant sentinel]

How does that not make sense?

[gusty rock]

that you are making too much difference

[radiant sentinel]

What?

[gusty rock]

you don't have to be in b1 to take better pictures than the 585.

[radiant sentinel]

…it was just an example. Replace B1 with B3 and it’s still correct

[gusty rock]

and b7

[radiant sentinel]

No

[gusty rock]

yes

[radiant sentinel]

Absolutely not

[gusty rock]

😄

id look some pics online before commenting

i know people that live in b7 and can produce better images

[radiant sentinel]

I have? There were literally pictures posted above from people who have used both

[gusty rock]

than using the 585

there was a guy few days ago the single sub was way noisier than my DSLR

[radiant sentinel]

And once again, that is down to personal skill. The raw data from the IMX585 will be better because the sensor specs are better

[chilly ingot]

this still going

[civic mirage]

Alrighty, I'm thinking it is starting to become pointless to argue. The amount of blind statements without actual logic are concerning.

[gusty rock]

no

Yeah i wouldn't use 585 for dsos

be more mature than reacting with some emojis to every single text.

[radiant sentinel]

Well yeah, you already have a better dedicated camera right?

[gusty rock]

Yes?

and either anyone who is beginning astrophotography shouldn't buy that camera for dso

[radiant sentinel]

Be mature and learn to develop fact-based arguments rather than making sweeping statements

[civic mirage]

Yea you literaly did the same lmao

[gusty rock]

huh?

[civic mirage]

Anyway, my point has been made.

[radiant sentinel]

The emojis are there for a bit of fun anyway. It’s not serious

[gusty rock]

you didn't make any point here only the argument

[gusty rock]

Your advice doesn't make any sense still

you are able to get better picture with the DSLR than the 585. Same goes into the 585 it can produce better pictures than the specific dslr.

[radiant sentinel]

It makes perfect sense. The IMX585 sensor has better specs than a similarly priced DSLR, baring the sensor size. That is my point, and given the same condition it will produce better data. Whether a better image is produced or not will depend on the skill of the user

[gusty rock]

if you don't really have that product its pointless

[gusty rock]

You didn't even listen.

[radiant sentinel]

Right. Whatever

[gusty rock]

No. The used DSLRs are way better priced than the 585, the 585 pays more than 500€ as new.

[radiant sentinel]

You cannot compare the price of a used DSLR to a new 585

[gusty rock]

and you can get used DSLR for the price of 150-200€

[radiant sentinel]

Both used, or both new

[gusty rock]

Yes it can be compared to the quality of your final image.

[gusty rock]

you rarely find those deals 🙂

[radiant sentinel]

No, it cannot. Becuase you can get a used IMX585 for not a great deal more than a used DSLR

£100 more, maybe £150

Keep comparisons fair if you’re going to make them

[gusty rock]

altrough i wouldn't give such bad advice to any beginner since it needs difficult softwares,guiding,laptop. Its less portable tho as i own a DSLR, star tracker and a dedicated setup, the DSLR wins the portability. 😄

[gusty rock]

Not really. If you don't have a rig i'd not giwe bad advice

[radiant sentinel]

What does that even mean? It’s irrelevant

[gusty rock]

Yeah maybe make some research into it.

before commenting something you don't know about

[radiant sentinel]

Well isn’t that ironic

[gusty rock]

i'd look pictures from astrobin,instagram,or here there are much better images than taken using the 585.

[radiant sentinel]

Right, whatever lmfao

[gusty rock]

DSLRs are much better in somepoint

[gusty rock]

The specs also doesn't matter how will your final image look

you don't have DSLR i wouldnt argue without having any knowledge

[radiant sentinel]

I have two DSLRs?

[gusty rock]

Ok? But no use of them

[velvet sand]

then just use a cell phone camera

[radiant sentinel]

I’ve used both for astrophotography, both produced worse data than an IMX585

Note how I didn’t say produce worse images? It’s the data that matters, that’s where the comparison lies

[gusty rock]

Phones can be good in astrophotography not just mine, the xiaomi ones are good since they use even better sensor than the 585.

i'd look lucas images he has some really good images

[chilly ingot]

apples to oranges with the smartphone stuff really

[gusty rock]

i don't know if hes still in this server though

[radiant sentinel]

Yep. Smartphones are so different really, not worth comparing

[chilly ingot]

mostly still sony stuff though

[gusty rock]

Improve your skills

[chilly ingot]

but the commercial daytime photography sensors are tuned way differenct than these industrial chips

[radiant sentinel]

I have, considerably. Yet the DSLR data is still worse, there’s nothing that will change it

[gusty rock]

yeah they can do a lot even planetary astrophotography they are great! 🙂

[gusty rock]

There is

you just gave up

[radiant sentinel]

Lmfao what

[chilly ingot]

planetary has so much signal with the bright objects

with dso's the massive noise the dslr's have is sometimes totally unbearable.

not to mention the dark current in long exposures. so much circuitry going

[radiant sentinel]

It is actually quite incredible what people achieve with some phones. Very talented

[gusty rock]

I know people that cant get better images using a cooled camera than one who uses dslr

[gusty rock]

And dslrs

[chilly ingot]

bortle and f ratio

sampling

[radiant sentinel]

Pure processing skills

[gusty rock]

if you hate your dslr it doesn't make sense that it couldn't take better picture than 585

then "phone can"

[radiant sentinel]

I don’t hate DSLRs, I don’t think anyone does lol

[chilly ingot]

there is no reason to use it when the signal to noise with the 585 is better.

also with these low noise cams i can image dust in b4 doing long exposures. the signal gets above the noise with long exposures

there is no chance in hell i could do that with a dslr

readout noise is bigger and cant control long exposure noise. with cooled astrocam, the noise does not increase if cool to the right temp for the exposure

[radiant sentinel]

Plus there’s Ha sensitivity too

[chilly ingot]

lets say with imx533, -5c for 5min sub. dark current is like 0.3e

imx585 has even lower noise

0.64e readout and dark current is like. nothing

[radiant sentinel]

The main downside to the 585 is the sensor size really. Otherwise the performance is excellent, particularly with cooled versions

[chilly ingot]

i been praying for a sony starvis2 sensor in atleast micro 4/3 size

but astro stuff is not the driving force what types of sensors they make

not by a long shot

its security cams, cars and phones

[radiant sentinel]

Unfortunately so

[chilly ingot]

chance of topic

did you notice the sharpstar 50edph?

[radiant sentinel]

We just need to convert enough people to astro so we become the driving force 😄

Can’t say I have

[chilly ingot]

did some digging and its the optics from fma230

but it looks like a real scope now with R&P focuser

for way less money too

(nice lil scope for imx585) 🙂

[radiant sentinel]

Yeah that would make a nice little rig tbf. And if it’s optically similar to the FMA230 then it’s probably gonna do nicely

Very lightweight too. Only 1kg so could be an option for small rigs

[chilly ingot]

they have identical spot diagrams

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052956190377771020/1183025513321726043/image.png?ex=6586d55d&is=6574605d&hm=e51033a25b6b431c7c9672223284d8616b599fdf8025f3e5bc186f6c4d1261b4& https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052956190377771020/1183025612118573096/image.png?ex=6586d575&is=65746075&hm=29d4e95ced7f309e1884470b56f0d272376bab320fcfc7f89f600889b8c1bd2a&

could be allright to even guide with

[radiant sentinel]

Yeah that seems great

Always good to have more options 😄

[chilly ingot]

in the land of the free

its 399dollars and 99dollars for the reducer

[gusty rock]

Not really but ok

[grave marten]

What's your best image captured with the fantastic 50$ 450D

[civic mirage]

This was my last data from the 450D

8hrs of 300" subs using the l-enhance at f4.8

Best technically wise

[grave marten]

Solid capture

[civic mirage]

The 450D has served me well

[grave marten]

I could only find 1 image of NGC6888 captured with the 585 and it's pretty low res.

[civic mirage]

Any specs on the rig / integration time by any chance?

Looks like Roki 135 fov

[grave marten]

Yeah roki

120 x 120s

[civic mirage]

The Roki is honestly the best pair for the 585

[civic mirage]

I bet the data was just as clean as my 8hrs, although f2 has a lot to do with that lol.

[grave marten]

Rokinon makes just about anything look good

[civic mirage]

I really want to get the Roki 135 for my 1600mm

[grave marten]

I bought the bayonet attachment so I can attach my EFW (allows for 44mm when using EFW)

Just haven't done anything with it yet

[civic mirage]

Oh nice

[grave marten]

Too many things I want to do... And not enough clear skies to do it.

Clear skies are a premium right now. When they come along I want to capture good data, not setting up and messing with projects lol

[civic mirage]

Rn I've been having a clear night here and there, better than streaks of cloudy days.

Exactly

[grave marten]

I have a iEXOS mount coming by Monday. I intend to use that with the Rokinon. That shoukd free things up

[solid raptor]

iEXOS 100 pmc 8?

[grave marten]

IEXOS 100 2 pcm8

[uneven heart]

the sensor size is a deal breaker for me

i cant even view it full res on my monitor tbh. as soon as u crop the edges

[gleaming flare]

Not really

The small sensor is the only problem

[solid raptor]

What's the difference?

[gleaming flare]

Also no need to crop if you shoot larger targets lol

Stacking edges aren't big

[grave marten]

I think just bt connecttivity really

[solid raptor]

I see. I switched out the pmc 8 controller for a custom onstep pcb. Best thing I've done to that mount, mainly bc of the motor driver, but maybe that's better with the 2. version

Because the default ones are pretty archaic

[grave marten]

For 300$ to hold a Rokinon, why not.

[solid raptor]

Oh yes don't get me wrong it'll do a fantastic job at that

And the goto and everything works just fine

Just a bit loud 😅

[grave marten]

How long a sub can it reliably track

[solid raptor]

Unguided?

Oh and did you get the azimuth adjustment base?

Thats a pretty big scam btw

[grave marten]

Either

[grave marten]

I 3d printed one

[solid raptor]

Unguided I heard you can just go as long as you want (especially with the roki), I just got guiding going and couldnt really test it myself. Unguided I did recall to have done 3 mins with my dslr but couldnt reproduce that again but that's due to my PA being off very often (I have no idea why) and my mount having been mutilated by its previous owner which I only recently found out. With meh PA I was doing 1 min

[solid raptor]

The little one from thingyverse?

[grave marten]

Don't recal what site, but I came across 2, and one was heavier than the other and titled v2

[solid raptor]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5248726
This one?

[grave marten]

Yeah that's the one

[solid raptor]

Lmk how it works

[grave marten]

Yeah I'll follow up with you about it early next week

[solid raptor]

@sage pivot Has used it extensively, I'm sure he can say a little more than I can

However he put quite a load on it

[grave marten]

I'd love to run my 61mm mono rig on. But we'll see... Think it's about 10lb

[solid raptor]

That should be pretty doable

[sage pivot]

I have, in fact used the Iexos-100 a shit ton

Ask any questions you might have. The UI sucks on this mount but it works well

[hazy copper]

180s, F2.8, Uranus C. Just colour balance and autostretch

300s, F2, D750. No editing apart from autostretch

Roughly same crop, autostretch

DBE to match gradients.

If you think the Uranus is worse than a DSLR for sensor performance @gusty rock @gusty rock you are mistaken....

[cosmic marlin]

i have more with 585 if u want aswell

[hazy copper]

that is almost a direct comparison, in fact the DSLR has the advantage with twice the light and longer exposures.

[civic mirage]

Exactly

[open swift]

wow..

[grave marten]

I invite everyone to share what they feel is their best/favorite Roki capture. I'll start the part with the Pillars of Cepheus and friends. I have a lot of favorites, so I chose one at random.
This was about 19 hours total integration of 180s exposures. 294MC with Svbony UV/IR

[winter herald]

cgi

[radiant sentinel]

This is awesome, what an interesting region with all the dust

i think this is my personal favourite. the processing could probably be a bit better and it's pushed to the limits of the data, but i think it's still nice overall and i'm happy the dust came out. ~4 hours, 180s subs, 533MC Pro from B4

[cosmic marlin]

not sure if this is my favourite one but it’s my most recent one

12hrs duoband with 585 and roki

[hazy copper]

Probs eclipse and Sagittarius star cloud. But I’ll have new favourite images once i work through my backlog of data.

Once I get this processed properly I’ll probably like this image a lot

[patent dove]

this is prob my favorite but still not completely happy with it since I cooked it, would benefit greatly from broadband data

[chilly ingot]

probs this. dont have any good ones anyway

[fallow stirrup]

stock dslr 💪

[civic mirage]

This is so dam nice

[civic mirage]

This is on my list for sure this year.

[sage pivot]

10lb is golden. I have 22lbs on my iexos and it tracks great. 80% of the time.

[grave marten]

Sweet... Well see if I get a chance to give it a rip tonight.

[sage pivot]

looks nice

you already have all the communications established? It took me a bit to get everything all good

[grave marten]

yup...good to go near as i can tell

[sage pivot]

have fun with polar alignment without the alt az adjustment 🤣

[grave marten]

lol. I have it, just not installed

[sage pivot]

why?

its a game changer

it makes the whole mount more sturdy too

[grave marten]

I wanna experience the suck first hand

tbh..cause im being lazy

[sage pivot]

you dont wanna drill the thing

[grave marten]

gotta get the drill, and bits

[sage pivot]

it took me 10 minutes

[grave marten]

fiiiiiineeeeee lol

[sage pivot]

lmao

what is holding your scope? That doesnt look like my dec

[grave marten]

its a vixen clamp

oem was yuck

lol

trackinng well at 300s

[sage pivot]

Hell yea

Is that a 294 I see?

[grave marten]

It is

I have plans to mount the Roki to it some day lol

[sage pivot]

I am hating my 294 right now\

[pallid flower]

Why

[sage pivot]

because it wont freakin calibrate

and ive lost upwards of 100 hours of data because of it at this point

[grave marten]

ooof

I loved my 294mc

really never gave me issues

I ran gain 121

I sold the 294mc earlier this year. But I loved its sensor size and framing, so when I decided to get into mono, I jumped on a 2nd hand 294mm

But yeah, I wasnt seeing things like that...

[gleaming flare]

i wonder if this is svbony issues

[grave marten]

My flat there is with svbony filter

uv/ir tho

lemme find a duoband

[sage pivot]

this is a known imx 294 issue

[sage pivot]

OSC? Debayer it and stretch it

[grave marten]

yeah, was OSC

[sage pivot]

debayer it

[sage pivot]

is that linked and unlinked stretch?

[grave marten]

side note...1000s exposure challenge passed:

[grave marten]

unlinked

[sage pivot]

do a linked

[grave marten]

normal and autostretched

linked

[sage pivot]

this is unlinked strateched

[sage pivot]

hmm

still I am confused because this flat calibrated the light perfectly

[grave marten]

single flat

[sage pivot]

and this dlat does this to the image

[grave marten]

oh...i just remebered a target I shot with nb filters.. lemme go dig up the data

linked debayed master autostretched

[sage pivot]

Do unlinked too?

[grave marten]

produced this image of SH2-119 and OU4 (with special guest star comet cant remeber its number lol)

[grave marten]

2000s challenge passed

[patent dove]

when I had a 294, I used around 3 second exposures for flats and took flat darks with it to get them to work

[sage pivot]

I’ve changed nothing and yet everything’s changed

[solid raptor]

Where were your guiding values at? @grave marten

[solid raptor]

Zamn

Basically en par with the sw sa gti I'd say?

[grave marten]

yeah, rated for 2kg more payload though, but sounds it can easily exceed when paired with a suitable tripod. I ran this same OTA kit on my GTi. It struggled especially on recovering from a dither. The GTi was more pleasing to the eye, and felt less clunky, but cant deny the performance of this little iEXOS. I ran a full session last night, AMF was fine, tracking was fine, dithering was fine. I didnt toss a single sub. I picked up the mount for 299$. That definitely gives it the nod over the GTi in my book.

[uneven heart]

Ah sw sa gt wont pull .6“ lol

[pallid flower]

This was my SWSA GTI overloaded at about 17 lbs

[solid raptor]

I'd go ahead and say it's a very solid option at that price point, if you set it up properly, and fairly cheap to get on the used market

Unfortunately I got one that was abused pretty hard by the first owner

[uneven heart]

bro thats 2 screenshots. i doubt that runs like that all night

[pallid flower]

That was a 2h interval. I might have more

In between

[uneven heart]

no u meant to say those where 2hrs spaced apart, the interval in the graph is 100s

[pallid flower]

Here's another one... Ik this isn't very organized but I was consistently getting .8-.5

Would depend on seeing. They key was amazing polar alignment

[uneven heart]

also …
come on man we all own our mounts and we all screenshot our best guide sections. If u pull .6“ on average, then id expect crazier numbers …

like my mount, it pulls .5-.6 average, i have plenty of snippets where it goes .3-.4.

So yeh i dont buy it that a swsa gti can pull .6“ average

[pallid flower]

shrug I'm not trying to upsell it or anything I sold the mount a couple months ago

I Don't usually take SS of my guiding so these are all I have

Telling you, it avg at .8-.5

[uneven heart]

good for u. I dont think its good mount

[pallid flower]

Why don't you think it's a good mount?

[uneven heart]

heard too many stories of bad guiding

[pallid flower]

Fair. It does seem to depend on if you get a good unit or not

As with any other mount

[civic mirage]

I've seen people get very good perf even unguided right out of the box

Unfortunately QC is worse than usual apparently

I do know it's possible to tune backlash on the gti

[pallid flower]

I think I just got extremely lucky with my unit

And I did pay a lot of attention to balance and polar alignment

[grave marten]

I had no complaints about the GTi. It guided well for me when I didn't push the payload much more than 10lb. Eventually I wanted more payload so I sold it for the AM5.

I pulled 1000s exposures with it regularly. It faltered at 2000s. Which yeah is subjective I guess, but it's a benchmark for me with any new mount.

[summer kernel]

I'm looking for a holder for my roki, I'm usuing a dslr if that limits anything. Currenly the lens hood doens't let me fully balance my mount and I'd like to fix that

[summer kernel]

https://astrodymium.com/products/astrodymium-rings-for-samyang-rokinon-135mm-f-2-lens

I found this, but I don't know what mounting type to use

I use the sky water star adventurer 2i fine adjustment mount

[grave marten]

Used a generic ring

[summer kernel]

Do you have links to get these? I also need the bottom bracket thingy too

[chilly ingot]

looks like some basic arcaswiss stuff

i got a basic plastic tripod collar that supposedly would fit to a samyang 135

well it didnt, would need to add a few layers of tape

goddamn photo stuff is always listed on the make and model of lens they fit and not the diameter

[grave marten]

Every lens collar I've purchased was by inner size dia in mm.

[cosmic marlin]

the redcat lens ring is perfect for roki

[hazy copper]

on top

[summer kernel]

nice

[summer kernel]

Yippieeee

I love the dust detail

What bortle are you in?

[grave marten]

5ish

[teal burrow]

Damn man this lens is SHARP at F/4

almost as sharp as a Redcat or the equivalent

but damn I miss my light gathering

I'm gonna try F/2.8 later and see if the stars still look even nearly as sharp, BlurX can do the heavy lifting

[chilly ingot]

blurx does all the lifting these days

AI 4 for me sharpened tadpoles into stars though

[grave marten]

lol

[chilly ingot]

had to only use correct pass, AI 2 disapeared after pix reinstall

[teal burrow]

What Fstop was that image at Mazzif?

I'm gonna guess 2.8?

[grave marten]

I think f/4 tbh

coulda been 2.8 tho

[teal burrow]

I mean hell if you got that much signal at F/4 then maybe F/4 isn't so bad

Because I can't get over how perfect the stars are at F/4

[chilly ingot]

just shoot separate stars at F4

then blast the main data at 2.8 or f2 whatever

[grave marten]

Im just thinking corners are too nice

[teal burrow]

BlurX would destroy that for breakfast

Still though, maybe I gotta do some testing at 2.8

I stupidly only tested at f4 last night and didn't do tests at 2.8

and now I gotta go out agaaainnn

[grave marten]

oh darn!

total bummer

lol

[chilly ingot]

these are Canon 200mm f2.8 stars wide open after blurx

[teal burrow]

The light gathering at f4 leaves a lot to be desired unfortunately, especially because I still need to astromod my t3i

[chilly ingot]

im not gonna stopdown anymore

just 2hrs at b8. ongoing project

[teal burrow]

From B8 that's pretty nice

[chilly ingot]

yeah well my cam's fullwell helps a ton

i can expose decently long

[teal burrow]

What cam are you shooting with?

[chilly ingot]

2600mc

when i imaged m45 with a f4.8 scope and canon 5d mark2

the same expose lenght i got a white frame

now i barely bump the histogram at twice the speed

not to mention double the QE

[teal burrow]

Arrrrrggh man I want a dedicated astrocam so badddd

[pallid flower]

How long are those exposures ?

[solid raptor]

Try 3,5 mayhaps?

[grave marten]

https://tenor.com/view/hop-on-the-cycle-frontier-the-cycle-frontier-hop-on-the-cycle-frontier-gif-26888181

[chilly ingot]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-waiting-still-waiting-gif-13052487

[hazy copper]

ornions

[teal burrow]

onion nebola

fr tho clean asf what are the details

[patent dove]

Would you be willing to share this data for MSGR?

[hazy copper]

5 hrs at F/2. 533mc-pro

I’ll share the data soon, when I finish work

[grave marten]

@sage pivot ...found a nice heavy tripod to use with the iEXOS. Perfect fit.

[sage pivot]

Right on that things probably way better than the shit it comes with

[grave marten]

yeah, feels fery solid. soon as these clouds wander off, Ill put it to the test.

[hazy copper]

Which panel? or both?

[solid raptor]

Very nice

My az base has a 1mm wide gap between the mount, I don't know why

[patent dove]

probably just the right panel, this is the FOV

[summer kernel]

F/2 stars only process

But compression kills it

There are so many tho omg

[patent dove]

thank you!

[sage pivot]

you imaging?

[grave marten]

a little bit. had company for a bit. got the iEXOS doing a capture on Rosette but not minding it to much

[sage pivot]

Rosette is my next target

[grave marten]

was just looking at a 40hr stack of NGC1333

[sage pivot]

Once I have better optics Ill image that

[grave marten]

its tough...prolly one of the most difficult targets Ive yet to capture

[sage pivot]

im saving up for SVX102T and a 0.65x reducer

[grave marten]

nice bit o kit

[sage pivot]

wont have it till late march probably

but that with the UMi should be a good little rig

[slow tinsel]

does anyone know how to test the performance of this lens?

i heard theres lots of defective copies around

[open swift]

Starfields are a test for any optical system, whether it be lens or mirror based and observing aberrations

[pallid flower]

I ordered my roki 135 4 days ago and they still haven't shipped it... I hope it gets here before the 2nd because that's when I got on vacation to h 1 skies

[winter herald]

@thorny jetty welcome him

[thorny jetty]

Huh

O yeah rught

[uneven compass]

You made the right choice

[thorny jetty]

Yeah

3 ft away with a Uranus-C, probably f/8, not sure, no post processing

[thorny jetty]

I like it

[slow tinsel]

is there a program to check for the common defects, e.g tilt estimation? or just look for defects in the corners

it looks fine on a 5s untracked shot, ignoring the star trailing

havent had time to get out my tracker yet

[open swift]

there is something called ccdinspector thatll tell you how much tilt and even map out how the system performs in a 3d space

I do believe there may be free tools to accomplish the same thing though

this has a trial and then its paid

[slow tinsel]

oh i see

just looking at the single image the stars are very impressive in the corners

wide open at f/2

although i should really do a proper test while tracked

[solid raptor]

@slow tinsel You can do it in ASTAP

[slow tinsel]

oh thanks!

[thorny jetty]

Could you please send me the steps to do it? I will definitely be needing it thursday

[solid raptor]

You just open the image in astap, hit F5 (or tools>Image inspection) and choose whatever parameter you wanna inspect

[thorny jetty]

Thank you!

[solid raptor]

Yw

[thorny jetty]

L opinion

[solid raptor]

Not that again

[chilly ingot]

choose a successful sub. that needs to go in the recycling bin

its also a touch out of focus ontop of trailed with a small shake

[thorny jetty]

Who argues abt 585s in this bru

[slow tinsel]

it was untracked haha

i just got the lens and hadnt time to get out the tracker

[chilly ingot]

Sigmatel 135mm f1.8 from 1972.
Its one of those lenses that supported many cameras in the day and the lens adapter has t2 threads.
I just take it off and screw on basicly AP adapters
Tried this for laughts. Didnt get this for AP at all

f1.8 unusable as is. Might need a front filter with modern coatings and cure lens elements with UV, might be some yellowing in there.

f2.8 10s sub

f4 30s sub

[hazy copper]

Roki at home:

[chilly ingot]

poor roki

with aps-c that vintage lens probably falls apart

[civic mirage]

F2.8 looks solid

[chilly ingot]

This lens has no half stops it clicks 1.8 -> 2.8 -> 4 -> 5.8 -> 8 -> 11 -> 16 -> 22

but yea the f2.8 is allright, a pain to focus

f4 seemed really easy and tame

blurx fixes all of these

with the cursed 1.8 stars it leaves the dark purple flaring in the background, but the star gets fairly round

has no star colour really left

Not bad from a lens from -72

[hazy copper]

-72? Before the universe existed? Neat.

[chilly ingot]

the police will get you for that attemt of a joke

[solid raptor]

Has anyone ever sent back a roki for repairs?

[chilly ingot]

Me

In the nordics the repair center is in sweden

have to send it there with a proof of purchase and a note with all the faults. And return info

It comes back few weeks later repaired

[solid raptor]

Thanks for the info

[chilly ingot]

Mine had a collimation fault

So it was under warranty

Had to send it there on my own dime that was annoying

[solid raptor]

Ah unfortunate

[chilly ingot]

But lenses that has no clear fault will cost money

[solid raptor]

Yeah i wouldnt be able to send it in anyway I think

I found a roki for a banger price that looks good optically, since the seller got it from his deceased grandmother he has no idea what to do with it so Ill have to go see for myself

Anything I can to with a dslr during daylight to roughly check the quality?

[chilly ingot]

wait

a granny had a roki?

some sort of astro granny

[solid raptor]

She had a whole lotta lenses and it's not confirmed that sje used the roki for astro but the son in law said she used to go out at night to photograph and among the others the roki would be the best bet

Strange things happen in Germany

[slow tinsel]

is a central halo normal for this lens?

anyone know what causes this?

[hazy copper]

dslr compression perhaps

[slow tinsel]

how can that be compression?

its a halo surely its something to do with the optics chain or sensor

or do u mean a different kind of compression?

[patent dove]

internal reflection perhaps

[chilly ingot]

mine goes away with flats

[split willow]

Got myself a dual Samyang 135 Rig today! This will hopefully be able to capture the essence of orion.

[chilly ingot]

[split willow]

[summer apex]

My Nikon d3300 had it. It’s how the camera stores .nef files.

[uneven compass]

What cam?

[split willow]

1600mm pro

[civic mirage]

Did you get 2x 1600mm pros?!

[split willow]

not yet, but once the other arrives, yeah

not every filter though

[civic mirage]

Oh dam

Thats gonna be insane

[cunning escarp]

man yall really like this lens

[thorny jetty]

Okay so here is a unfocused and compressed test of my roki

High clouds and dew messed me up

Apologies for the bleach needed for your eyes after this, it's on me

[solid raptor]

Nice, you gotta work on your backfocus a bit too

[thorny jetty]

Yee

[solid raptor]

Is anyone here using stepdown rings?

[foggy meteor]

how would the roki perform with a imx 585 ?

[chilly ingot]

good

[foggy meteor]

so you could say likely no abborations right , because of the small sensor ?

[short charm]

I do, I don't like the aperture artifact from the roki, so I'm at f2.3 ish with a 58mm stepdown ring

[solid raptor]

Does it negatively impact sharpness?

[short charm]

Not really, it may cause some reflections cause most of the rings have shiny threads though

As far as sharpness, if your glass isn't sharp, this won't help

However, I did get less CA with a stepdown ring, I think the coating on the edge of my front element somewhere is worn out or just poor

Also, you introduce weird star shapes if your ring isn't consistent

[solid raptor]

Yeah I thought it wouldn't make it any better but I wasn't sure if it made it worse because it sits at the front of the lens now instead of the back

Those go in the filter slot so I can still use my lens hood, right?

[short charm]

Yeah, the lens hoods the same, but I keep my ring on all the time so I got a matching cap

[solid raptor]

Thanks

[brisk yoke]

I honestly like the diffraction spikes of the f-stop. The pleades 3hr of integration time. Rig is a stock Sony a-6000, eq mod az-gti, a roki 135mm 2.8 f, and also I use N.I.N.A. I did 90s 1000iso frames in a bortle 2-3 area and I did my flats and biases. Ambient temp was -12c.

I’ll get some more integration time someday to completely eliminate the noise.

[solid raptor]

Yeah it's a matter of taste. My offer of the dual narrowband filter for your cam still stands btw 😄

[brisk yoke]

I’d like to try the filter but I don’t have the money….

[bold acorn]

Found a cool cheap alternative to the roki/samyang 135mm f2.0

Theres vintage lenses which are 135mm f2.8 for like 9 USD

Won't be as good quality but it's tens of times cheaper

[thorny jetty]

Going very well

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1164706228371464283/1196329280309833778/IFNS..png?ex=65b73b77&is=65a4c677&hm=27677d9e5bb1f339d85531ca268a2669ea30d906783dd3441ad3691ba89d05de&

28m (14x120s) f/2.8

Literally just a crop and ABE

[hazy copper]

Fix your backfocus

[hazy copper]

Also 11 times worse, your call

[thorny jetty]

Yee ik

Retaking stars and all that

[bold acorn]

Well kinda like 4x worse

Can't be 11x worse it wouldn't be usable

These old lenses are sharp

https://youtube.com/shorts/xQz0zEf9UFU?si=O3y4bcEGMpe53X7p

[chilly ingot]

stopped down a bunch yeah

[thorny jetty]

Guess whay

Unfocused again

@uneven compass

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1052383583337189386/1197765493977780294/IFNS_m81PNG.png?ex=65bc750b&is=65aa000b&hm=0866e68d024b8d82dc60515a7b987385bf5e5d4479149cfa34135f100820d7b5&

I'm retaking flats, don't worry

[slow tinsel]

whats wirh the pattern noise

sick ifn tho

[crimson goblet]

Although I agree on dslr being easier for beginners, they definitely won't produce better pictures than the 585
They have bad read noise, poor qe and ir sensibility, useless big sensors because when you start you won't have a big enough quality field (because of coma or poor collimation)

[thorny jetty]

Bad flats

[thorny jetty]

Yee only 6 hrs at f/2

[slow tinsel]

nicee

[grave marten]

Still in this astro drought, but thinking about what gain everyone likes with the 585 when paired with the Roki. Seems (on paper) a lower gain (from unity 252) opens up the full well a bit more. Is it noticeable? 🤔

[simple pilot]

The Great Orion Nebula and the Horsehead Nebula

The Orion Nebula and the Horsehead Nebula are two of the most fascinating objects in the night sky. Located in the constellation of Orion, these nebulas are vast clouds of interstellar gas and dust, where new stars are born and evolve.

The Orion Nebula, also known as Messier 42, is one of the brightest and best-known nebulas in the sky. It is visible to the naked eye as a diffuse patch in Orion's sword. The nebula is the result of intense star formation activity, with young massive stars emitting intense ultraviolet radiation that makes the surrounding gas glow brightly.

The Horsehead Nebula, or Barnard 33, is a dark nebula that stands out against the brightness of the Orion Nebula. It gets its name from its appearance, which resembles the head of a horse when observed under certain conditions. The nebula is dark because it is filled with interstellar dust that blocks the light from the stars behind it. This dust is also the material from which new stars and planets can form.

📍Anápolis - Goiás, Brazil. 07-12-23
📷QHY294C Cooled
🎥Rokinon 135mm F2.0 ED UMC
🔭Bresser EXOS-2 with Onstep Brasil
🌑@novaastrophoto

📋 Exif: 183 minutes of total exposure.

Lights: 61x180" Gain 1600 f/2.8
Darks 80x180"
Flats: 30x3"
DarkFlats: 30x3"
HDR frames: 15x60"+30x30"+5x30" Gain 1600 f/2.8

[bold acorn]

HOLY CRAP WHAT OBJECT?

[patent dove]

thats M81 and M82

with surrounding IFN

[thorny jetty]

Messier 81 with ALL the stars in the galaxy illuminating the bg nebula

[thorny jetty]

Nerd this man already

@open swift

[thorny jetty]

I do 220 gain for nb and bb

[verbal quail]

How do you attach your Rk 135 to your mount? I can't seem to find a collar for it.

[hazy copper]

i also made my own aluminium dovetail, and didnt use heated inserts.

[slow tinsel]

how do u make ur own??

[hazy copper]

Just a slab of aluminium that I filed the edges on

[slow tinsel]

oh wow how long that takes

[chilly ingot]

Using manual tools usually faster when doing a simple bracket etc

Probs not much at all if the file is sharp. Gums up pretty bad from alu though

[hazy copper]

Like 2 minutes

[slow tinsel]

oh nice, didnt know you could just file manually like that

it had got to be pretty precise tho right? if you get the 2 sides' angle wrong on a dovetail thats ggs

[hazy copper]

Nah it doesn’t matter. It’s just so the screw can hold it

[crimson goblet]

I really like your processing!

[simple pilot]

Thanks friend, I'm always trying to improve processing skills

[split willow]

Session 1 Ha is completed, gonna collect some more tonight hopefully

[chilly ingot]

sweet

[verbal quail]

You're a lifesaver! Though making my own dovetail is out of the question for me. Is there anywhere I could buy one that would work with this print?

[pine beacon]

Bruh, i was like „wtf, how good does this look“ as I saw this

[grave marten]

Snagged some frames myself last night. Did a quick stack and process to see what was in the data.

[hazy copper]

Not sure no. However making the dovetail is easy. It was just a plate of aluminium I bought at the scrapyard and filed down.

[grave marten]

Got the 294MM-Pro mounted with EFW to the Rock'n On 135

[solid raptor]

I keep seeing the iExos more often lately I think its becoming worthy of its own thread

[grave marten]

Went on sale... Many were compelled to give it a shot. I dig it. Tracks like a champ.

[verbal quail]

Where's the best place to put my dew heater? Can I wrap it around the lens shield?

[uneven compass]

I do that and have had 0 issues with dew

[verbal quail]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/800149179615150090/1202715444457504788/IMG_20240201_153943717.jpg?ex=65ce770b&is=65bc020b&hm=3afb3d641fa3b0f910d81be32efc814b099c00505b9ec1ddfde4ee6ae450faaf&

Up and ready to image! Thanks @hazy copper for the print design!

[hazy copper]

I would get rid of that plastic dovetail asap. Mine gave way.

[verbal quail]

What plastic, fill %, and fill design did you use if you can remember?

[hazy copper]

ABS, 100% fill.

[thorny jetty]

I use thinkables plastic dovetail

[wicked beacon]

Ya'll gonna have a Ares-C + friend here. The roki is already here, now attatched to a mirrorless

[gleaming flare]

@uneven compass !!!!