Is this a good setup?

[lucid willow]

For the money do you think i could get something better? (DSO)

[bold crypt]

Everything seems to be in order but i think you will need a 2inch filter instead of 1,25 unless you buy another adapter for the 1,25, and dont forget guiding setup 50mm guider + 120mm mini + pc

[lucid willow]

Thanks a lot,do you think that the 533MC Pro is good for nebulae?

[tacit kestrel]

all dedicated cameras will work for all objects

it's a matter of which filter you need, the l-extreme is fine for emission nebulae but less so for broadband objects

[lucid willow]

l-enhance over the l-extreme? i live in a borte 6-7 sky

[tacit kestrel]

the l-extreme is fine, for broadband you would need the l-pro

[bold crypt]

not need

you can also shoot without it , but for nebulae l extreme is perfect

[tacit kestrel]

I guess that if he wants to shoot broadband the minimum would be a uv/ir cut

[bold crypt]

yah

[neat cave]

533 is ok with 1.25" filters.

533 will be good for nebulae - we are talking about the best state of the art sensor here. Sony IMX 571.

just some hours (not many, can't remember really ) of veil here with 533 and L Extreme.

[tacit kestrel]

isn't the 571 the aps-c sensor that the asi 2600 has?

[neat cave]

yip

[lucid willow]

nice man 🥲

[neat cave]

is the exact same sensor

just smaller

[tacit kestrel]

so.. an imx533

[neat cave]

No. It's Sony IMX 571.

But the model is ASI 533 - Don't ask me why 😄

[tacit kestrel]

uh if you look at the specs on the sites that sell them they call it imx533

[neat cave]

yeah uhm you right - I am just loking atm

but it's the same sensor

[tacit kestrel]

not 100% sure about that but still, no doubts that it's a great little sensor

[neat cave]

I am 100% sure according to every review I read, And those were many.

[lucid willow]

should i consider something bigger for nebulae?

[neat cave]

bigger sensor u mean?

[lucid willow]

yes

[neat cave]

well a bigger sensor is always nice for widefield nebulae. But the sensor that you can get will be ASI1600, ASI294 and ASI 2600 and onwards.

[lucid willow]

mono or color? what shot the best in your opinion?

i feel like color would be more "fun" but mono should be better

[tacit kestrel]

the cheapest option for a larger sensor would be the risingcam imx571

[neat cave]

ASI1600 sensor is bigger. About the same pixel size but has less sensitivity (Panasonic sensor); ASI 294 is a bit of a special case. It's in Bin2; you can Bin down to Bin1 though. But then it's got only small pixels. It's slighty better sensitive in the red.

[tacit kestrel]

mono is more expensive, like a lot more. but can yeld better results

[neat cave]

Are you beginner?

[lucid willow]

price is not a problem,i'd like to spend a lot one time that regret later

[lucid willow]

sadly yes

[tacit kestrel]

not that you would regret getting a color camera, they can still get amazing results with less overall work needed

[neat cave]

np np 😄 Well I would say - start with color.

You will have enough to follow up on everything. No need to hassle with mono for time being beginner imho

And if money is not the great problem - I would say - go for the ASI2600 sensor

[lucid willow]

damn

maybe now is a problem

[neat cave]

Then don't

[lucid willow]

3 times the price maybe in the future

[neat cave]

It's not a big problem - you can do mosaiks when u want bigger fov.

[lucid willow]

yea i thought about that seems cool

[neat cave]

It's just if you was rich like yeah no problem - then I would say go for the big one.

[lucid willow]

barlow lens? or for my focal is useless?

[neat cave]

useless

well in many cases

[lucid willow]

im not rich, im just stupid enough to spend 3 month of work

[neat cave]

It would be good for moon though. And clusters

[neat cave]

welcome to the club

You might want to consider leaving the flattener out when you go for smaller sensor - I am not 100 % sure there but I think you won't need it for 533.

[lucid willow]

i prefer spending a lot now that going little and upgrading slowly

[lucid willow]

i saw that the flattener is a must on the ed80,plus the reducer it helps to make it "faster"

[neat cave]

Yeah you have chosen a nice setup what shall I say 🙂

[neat cave]

Well I got the 72ED and bought the expensive flattener and I do not use my DLSR - atm I think I can go without flattener with that sensor. But I do have clouds and clouds - so I still don't know yet.

[lucid willow]

@bold crypt he told me eveything, i just want to be sure sure before going all in

[neat cave]

He did a great job 🙂 I might have the exact setup but the 80ED was sold out at the time I bought my stuff...

[lucid willow]

so you are telling me to wait and see if i really need it?

[neat cave]

Ye would be good idea - those dedicated flatteners - they are costy. And when you sell the scope in the future - u gotta sell it with flattener or well u gotta sell the flattener itself cuz it won't work well with other scopes.

So yeah. You could try it out without. And then go for it when it does not work with out

[lucid willow]

i'll do like you say thx

[neat cave]

I think @tacit kestrel when we talked about flatteners and 72ED he was like getting the flattener at a later time iirc

[lucid willow]

barlow and sun filter for solar imaging? or my tube is too short ?

[neat cave]

No REAL need for barlow and Sun. But can be nice. Solar filter I say yes. It's nice to have. But be cautious with sun. Never without dedicated filter and so on...

You need dew heaters though

[lucid willow]

i just need a good solar filter and thats it?

[neat cave]

yep that's it. Hm have you thought about guiding yet?

[lucid willow]

no not really

[neat cave]

like guide scope / guide cam?

[lucid willow]

im still searching on the web why is that important

[neat cave]

I mean it's just you got a splendid setup - but no guiding

[tacit kestrel]

for the 533 it may not be needed tbh, it has a really narrow fov

[lucid willow]

the mount should do all the guiding so why should i get a nice guide setup

[neat cave]

It's going to be important because a tracker only tracks. A guider guides on actual stars.

[neat cave]

no the mount needs guiding in order to work perfectly.

[tacit kestrel]

risingcam imx571, same sensor for just 1500

[neat cave]

Well I would say - skip the flattener - and there is almost your guide scope guide cam combo

[lucid willow]

so if i dont have a good guiding setup my mount would not work as i think?

like point that and follow or something like that

[neat cave]

yeah it have a bigger Error in Pixelscale than with being guided.

You see. With no guiding camera. Your mount is blindly tracking. Witha guiding camera it will be guided.

[lucid willow]

so the guiding works with the mount,cool i didnt know that thx

[neat cave]

Yeah it's like a route

[lucid willow]

i thought that once you align the mount you were good to go

[neat cave]

Oh one thing. What is like. How do you want to control your mount and setup? Laptop?

[lucid willow]

"know you know where you are do you job and move"

[tacit kestrel]

with good alignment you can even get 3 minutes exposures, but with guiding it's almost guaranteed that you can do more

[lucid willow]

i have a good laptop

[neat cave]

Well yeah you can do tracking without guiding. It works. But guiding will always be superiour.

[neat cave]

You might consider the FTDI USB to RJ45 cable for the EQ6R - then you can connect the laptop directly with the mount (will be nice)

(about 30EUR)

[lucid willow]

what do i need to consider in order to choose a good guide setup

[neat cave]

not much - expecially not much because you are on low FL

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/guidescope_suitability

[lucid willow]

https://www.amazon.it/DSD-TECH-SH-RJ45P-Console-PL2303RA/dp/B083S4LXLS/ref=psdc_473257031_t1_B07BK6P67K ?

[tacit kestrel]

if I can suggest one thing, I would honestly go for a skywatcher quattro 150/600 rather than the 80ED. Same focal length but it has almost double the aperture and an included coma corrector (same job as the flattener but it's the one needed for reflectors)

and technically no chromatic aberration

[lucid willow]

what's that?

[neat cave]

something like this

[neat cave]

this site will help you finding out things. Guide suitability is just the combo between imaging scope and guide scope along with sensors. In your case with the 80ED it won't matter much. But this site is great.

[neat cave]

Honestly a really nice idea. But F4 is very hard to collimate so I read. That's the only offtrade. And for myself it's a big one.

[tacit kestrel]

true but I fell like it saves a lot of money that can be used for a nice guiding setup

[lucid willow]

more aperture seems better but for a beginner like me maybe using a refractor could be easier?

but im learning so maybe is not that bad starting with something more challenging

[neat cave]

For guiding combo - something like this will do.

[tacit kestrel]

no, the sv205 doesn't work in phd2. I tried that myself

[neat cave]

Prolly better a 150 PDS then - a bit lower F ratio? And pricewise it's the same

[neat cave]

whaaaat? What about the 305?

[tacit kestrel]

it should but at that point just get a 120mm mini

[neat cave]

I was sure it works cuz I remember you bought it back then @tacit kestrel

[lucid willow]

@bold crypt told me to choose on the 200pds or the 80ed if i prefer refractor

[tacit kestrel]

I thought too, then when I swapped it for the 120mm it was night and day. Turns out it wasn't outputting anything other than noise

[neat cave]

200 pds is also nice yes.

[tacit kestrel]

long focal length as and can act as a big sail. A little harder as starter but not a bad option either

[neat cave]

Well thing between refractor and reflector really is. It comes down to are you willing to spend some more effort and time to mainting a scope? How ready you wanna be day for day when clear skies come?

[neat cave]

yeah and the wind 😄

[lucid willow]

that it went philosophical real quick

[neat cave]

Well not so philiosophiocal. You should save up some money by not getting the flattener and get some guide combo first.

[lucid willow]

i love planetary imaging but for a starter i thought a refractor was a better choice

but im pretty sure that in the future if things goes right ill move to planetary and at that point i'll buy a big reflector

[neat cave]

It won't matter - I started with refractor - but now I want something else too. Reflectors are just different. So yeah you might start with a Newt then. You can do it.

[lucid willow]

thats why im buying an eq6 pro

[bold crypt]

it works but isnt compatible you need an adapter and for future proofing 2inch is best also it much simpler to use woth other telescopes and camerss in future

[lucid willow]

this for sure

[neat cave]

you mean the screw in adapter which is in the package? Yeah 2" is future proof that's right, sir.

[lucid willow]

2" won

[neat cave]

This is independent from getting a refractor or reflector...

[tacit kestrel]

or get the quattro that costs less than the 80ed and has an included corrector 👀

[neat cave]

well the CC is a bit marketing gag imho.

Consider other options like 150PDS and a CC you at the same price

[tacit kestrel]

to be fair the fov of the 533 is so small he could just skip the cc too

[neat cave]

Although it will be calculated deicatedly to the Quattro. PDS aint got no dedicated CC

[neat cave]

Yeah my big fail was getting the flattener back then. Just too expensive and I use 533 😄

[lucid willow]

yea i get it, i need a guiding setup i'll look in to that ( the guide scope that you said and maybe the 120mini)

[tacit kestrel]

for a guide scope that isn't too much more expensive and that has a nicer build quality there's the tecnosky 32mm guide scope

[neat cave]

There is coming a new ASI 220 for guiding - I don't know how much it will cost wnd when it will be released.

[lucid willow]

cc stands for corrector?

[neat cave]

Coma Corrector

[lucid willow]

thx

[tacit kestrel]

seems to be out already, 340€

[neat cave]

Newts need Coma Correction and flattening. Mostly those are combos and called CC

[lucid willow]

https://www.skypoint.it/it/camera-zwo-asi-220-mini-monocromatica.html yea

[neat cave]

a bit much lmao

[tacit kestrel]

QE on 92% noice

[lucid willow]

for guiding mono is ok?

[neat cave]

ye 😄

[neat cave]

the best

mono > colour (always)

[tacit kestrel]

you can use colour cameras too, but mono is more sensitive

[lucid willow]

https://www.astroshop.it/telecamere-astronomiche/zwo-fotocamera-asi-120mm-mini-mono/p,59338 100euros difference

[neat cave]

I use ASI462 with IR Pass 😄

You could look for used ones too. And sometimes you get them in a package with some nice guide scope

[lucid willow]

worth the difference ?

[lucid willow]

i'll look on ebay

[tacit kestrel]

consider that the prices have skyrocketed recently, the 120mm used to be around 175

i got mine used but practically new for 150

[lucid willow]

now 220

[neat cave]

https://tenor.com/view/shh-silence-robert-downey-junior-pshh-pssh-gif-18395248

[neat cave]

Maybe you find ASI120MM (that's not the mini); same sensor and everything. Just different build.

used

Where I am here - many guys sell them atm

@lucid willow do you only want to image or do you want to use your scope visually too?

[lucid willow]

visual is cute but i prefer image

[neat cave]

Allrighty.

[neat cave]

difference is the USB

[lucid willow]

i skipped the colored one

[neat cave]

Mini = USB 2

[lucid willow]

do i care for guiding?

[lucid willow]

oh ok

[tacit kestrel]

the mini version is made for guiding

[neat cave]

Hm I got the bigger one because the difference did not matter to me that much priceswise but having USB 3 is always nice. The form factor is better on the mini. USB cable connection is better on the bigger. Mini just uses USB C and I read it tends to slip out. But. Both will be great. And USB 2 is ok for guiding.

[lucid willow]

btw i dont know what to expect for visual, so i feel like i would be disappointed ahah

[lucid willow]

thankss

[neat cave]

depends - it's just different 🙂

[lucid willow]

dew heater is that important?

[neat cave]

Yeah it's about the form factor. The mini can slip into the tube better and more in.

[neat cave]

Where you at? Do you have much dew during the nights? Humid climate? Usually yes - you need it. For real.

I was literally shocked the first time I saw that effect.

[lucid willow]

8km near the sea

[neat cave]

Winter. About 0 ° C. We did only some visual back then. And it took 30 minutes and the whole optics were misty.

[lucid willow]

open nature bortle 6-7 maybe

pretty humid

[neat cave]

Then it's a must

[lucid willow]

winter -4 max id say

[bold crypt]

Oh it comes with an adapter, the more you know , well either way 2inch is better but if you are on a tight budget a 1,25 can work yes

[neat cave]

There are USB dew heater bands (also on amazon) or better ones with the dedicated astro 12V standard cables - for those you need some kind of powerbox though..

[bold crypt]

NO NO NO

[neat cave]

Well it works - got the exact combo but instead of 80ED I got the 72ED.

[tacit kestrel]

welp

[lucid willow]

for my setup i dont think i need a powerbox

[lucid willow]

he's angry i think

[bold crypt]

Coma corrector is a must

[neat cave]

yeah - USB ones will work - a powerbank something like that is needed though.

[bold crypt]

you dont skip a coma corrector for newts

[lucid willow]

i can plug everything to the wall or the pc

[tacit kestrel]

any idea if the skywatcher one is decent?

[neat cave]

No? Why no?

[bold crypt]

for what scope ?

[lucid willow]

this one i think

[neat cave]

If it's any like the bigger aplanatic CC - then yes.

[tacit kestrel]

skywatcher quattro 150, I'm talking about the bundled cc

[bold crypt]

this is a corrector reducer for a refractor

[bold crypt]

ask @fringe nest he owns one , i havent seen the results from it

[lucid willow]

and you are talking about reflector ok got it

[neat cave]

oh wait actually

[lucid willow]

i mixed everything my bad

[bold crypt]

But for an 80ED i highly reccomend the 0,8 reducer flattener, i use it and its well corrected on a full frame

[neat cave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BnhZV87eM

Here - it's like good knowledge on Newts in general too

[bold crypt]

@lucid willow if you are buying the 80ED , buy the 0,8 reducer flattener with it , dont cheap out on a piece thats important like that

[lucid willow]

:c ok

[neat cave]

you sure that it will matter with the 533 sensor size?

[bold crypt]

yes i have tested with 183 which is same but not square and it has wonky stars

[neat cave]

I mean I got the corrector for the 72ED (dedicated) but I am not sure there. I will check this for myself - if only we had clear skies...

[bold crypt]

so the 0,8 flattener is a must

[neat cave]

Oh so like on two sides you get weird shapes and on say the upper ones not?

[lucid willow]

clear skies is just clear from clouds or theres something more i need to know?

[neat cave]

clear skies is also how astronomers greet or say goodbye

[lucid willow]

i saw someone talking about atmosphere turbolence or something like that in the planetary channel

[neat cave]

Seeing it is called

[bold crypt]

stars in corners arent perfect , but also its kinda dumb idea to overkill on the mount and have weird shaped stars because you skimped on a flattener

[neat cave]

Yeah you gonna hate Seeing 😄

[lucid willow]

clear skies to you then

[lucid willow]

how do i know if the seeing is good?

[neat cave]

true - if it get's weird shapes - I would've thought you won't need the corrector aloing for 533 sensor size

[bold crypt]

you measure it with HFR or FWHM

[neat cave]

haha to you too 😄

[tacit kestrel]

I use meteoblue astronomical seeing

it has a bunch of useful info other than seeing

[lucid willow]

i saw that in the us there are some sites that tell everything but i cant find something for where i am

[neat cave]

Well a famous sign for bad seeing is when stars twinkle. People tend to like twinkly stars but astronomers hate it.

[neat cave]

what websites?

oh for seeing?

[lucid willow]

so i focus everything and if i see that they appear blurry and wobbly is not a good day?

[lucid willow]

ye

[neat cave]

will always be blurry and wobbly - it will be more so the longer your FL is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSGelTwlcwk

[lucid willow]

https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/outdoorsports/seeing/ardea_italy_3182897

[neat cave]

I really like those SW webcasts - cuz they not only try to market their products but to smarten up the folks too

[bold crypt]

no no, when you are in perfect focus you measure the size shape/width with a program and it will show you how good the seeing

[neat cave]

NINA

[lucid willow]

so i wont know if i got good seeing unless i take everything out

cool

[tacit kestrel]

well if you can see the stars twinkle with your eyes you can be sure that it's bad

[neat cave]

yeah you will know a bit because you develop a feeling for it as well. It's depending on weather and buildings and micro climates and whatnot.

[lucid willow]

i have a lot to learn

[neat cave]

twinkle twinkle little star 🤮

[neat cave]

Don't we all? 😄

Ok I need food

cu laters

[tacit kestrel]

cya

[lucid willow]

everyone happy with this?

[lucid willow]

cya and thanks to everyone, it's lovely to have someone to speak about my setup

https://tenor.com/view/kitten-kiss-cute-pet-cat-gif-20374133

[tacit kestrel]

looks good, try to look on other sites too for the eq6 as it got overpriced too in the last few months

[lucid willow]

i saw it at 1700 in another site,i'll look somewhere else yea

[tacit kestrel]

on astroshop you can say "hey this item is sold for less on the other site" and they can approve that price. in theory

[lucid willow]

i'll give them a call

[tacit kestrel]

if you go on the item page there's a form for that

https://i.imgur.com/yg8oweS.png

[lucid willow]

why you have the site in italian?

[tacit kestrel]

well, I happen to be italian

[lucid willow]

e tutto questo tempo mi sono impegnato per cosa

va che non è semplice scrivere robe di senso compiuto in inglese

ahahaah

[tacit kestrel]

lol, it's best to keep the conversation in english so others can partecipate too

[lucid willow]

ye ye

[bold crypt]

nessun problema pufferpesce, parliamo tutti italiano

[tacit kestrel]

O_O

[lucid willow]

ma

sneaky

@neat cave at this point we need to know if you are italian

[tacit kestrel]

lol, I think he's german but I'm not sure

[bold crypt]

decisamente no

[lucid willow]

:c

[bold crypt]

also ich spreche deutsch, aber englisch ist besser

so we can continue normally

[lucid willow]

time to learn deutsch

[bold crypt]

yup

[neat cave]

I am German

oh you all 3 Italians? 😄

[neat cave]

I am able to understand a bit Italian even when I do not speak it 😄

[lucid willow]

ye 🙂

[lucid willow]

you can call yourself an italian now

[tacit kestrel]

you mean: ye 🤌

[lucid willow]

ye