Planetary Imaging

[slate juniper]

Doesnt matter

Its oke to have the alignment process in the vid

Pipp will sort these frames out

[tiny topaz]

True but I think before I’ve gotten artifacts because it takes a weird blurry Jupiter but I’ll take note of that for next time

[slate juniper]

Maybe a error somewehre in the processing

Wat cam do u use

[tiny topaz]

ZWO asi585mc

[slate juniper]

Or bad seeing or not sharpened enough

kk so a astrocam:D

Do u use sharpcap or firecapture?

U can set the filenames to contain date and time in utc and make these winjupos compatible

With that, u could do multible 2min recordings and get these all derotated

[tiny topaz]

Firecapture as sharpcap isn’t easily available on Mac

[slate juniper]

kk, its bettee as I heard too anyways

Search on google to make ur files winjupos compatible if u got problems in finding it

Or better, watch a vid

Also about ur artifact problem u mentioned, could be an issue with the exposure being too low maybe, I had that problem a few times

[tiny topaz]

Will google that now, and I’ll create that google drive and I think it was because of my autorecentering aoi on firecapture

[tiny topaz]

I see the time stamp feature now, not sure if I can get that placed onto my last captures but I’ll have to check out winjipos before then

Also the google drive won’t be ready until tomorrow as for some reason it’s taking a long time to transfer the videos over

[sharp ridge]

That "motion blur" is seeing

Or some random errors

[tiny topaz]

Would stacking images longer than 3 minutes not also cause motion blur?

[somber stratus]

Autostakkert can deal with up to 6 minutes on the central disc of the planet.

But the edges look a bit weird

https://www.cloudynights.com/uploads/gallery/album_14764/gallery_338887_14764_51982.gif

I personally just record in 1 minute segments because then you won't have an issue with field rotation for the most part.

10 videos of 1 minute is the same as 1 video of 10 minutes in terms of SNR

It's the individual exposure times that's important to SNR

If you're into visual then sure, but for serious imaging you need a tracking version yeah

especially with the focal lengths required to maximise a 16".

[tiny topaz]

Is this for all versions of AS?

[somber stratus]

AS!3 and 4, not sure about 2

[tiny topaz]

My discord is glitching but is there much of a difference if I upgrade from AS3 to 4?

[somber stratus]

4 is better at most things so I recommend updating yeah

[tiny topaz]

Sounds good! And do you think if I restack my data through as4 it would improve my most recent Jupiter image?

[somber stratus]

No, It's the same algorithms as far as I'm aware. It's just got much faster processing and an improved surface alignment for lunar/solar close ups.

[tiny topaz]

Oh okay sounds good 👍, and because you’re the goat of planetary, do you have any tips on how to improve my images? I’m currently using an Orion XT8, Celestron 2x X-Cel Barlow and ZWO ASI585MC. I do also have a adc but haven’t gotten around to trying it out yet and I’ve gotten out before Jupiter gets too low

[somber stratus]

Touch overexposed in the recent image, but otherwise looks decent. Would recommend using the ADC regardless of altitude. Only above 70° is it not really needed.

I've noticed benefit at 60

[tiny topaz]

Even this one is overexposed? Just curious and sounds good I’ll watch some videos on how to properly use it

[somber stratus]

G channel looks ever so slightly clipped

[white prawn]

I just feel that it's overall blurry. Like water pastel

[somber stratus]

Seeing related most likely. Collimation looks good

[white prawn]

I swear, AS4 is drunk

[somber stratus]

force rggb

[white prawn]

I did

It starts like this:

[tiny topaz]

How do I fix that?

[somber stratus]

Was it overexposed during capture?

[tiny topaz]

Also would anyone be willing to look at my data and try stacking it?

[somber stratus]

I can if it's not a ridiculously big download

[tiny topaz]

I don’t really think so, I used fire capture and exposure was at 2.5 ish and gain was at 300-400 ish so maybe it’s over exposed but it didn’t look too bad

[tiny topaz]

And the data should be a couple gigs like 7-11 ish

[thin aspen]

Does clipped mean the histogram goes too far off to the right. So in this instance it is the green histogram. So data is lost?

[tiny topaz]

But I can just choose a few videos not all of them if that helps

[somber stratus]

Yeah, just means some pixels are saturated, i.e 256/256 or 65536/65536 levels for 8-bit/16-bit respectively. >=100% histogram.

Lost data

[somber stratus]

Do you have the .txt files?

with capture settings

post it here

[tiny topaz]

Yep and just drag them into this chat?

[somber stratus]

ye

[tiny topaz]

Here is 10/13

here is the last 3

[somber stratus]

Didn't mean all of them, but it's fine

[tiny topaz]

Oh whoops lol

[somber stratus]

Yeah, you're underexposed during capture (which is good). Did you use registax by any chance for sharpening?

[tiny topaz]

yep registax 6

[somber stratus]

Ok, so you need to normalise at 55%-75% in AS!3/4 upon stacking. As your capture histogram was around 35% from those txt files, Registax auto-stretches them (don't ask me why). For some reason if the brightest pixels are under half saturation (<50%), it auto stretches the tiff and overexposes stuff when you sharpen.

check this

or just use Astrosurface and that fixes it also

I usually go for a normalisation of 65% in AS!4 when I stack

[tiny topaz]

Okay sounds good I'll try 60% on AS3 and then i will download AS!4 and re-try it again

[somber stratus]

AS!3 will work the same. AS!4 isn't much different

[white prawn]

I still say that it's drunk in my recent lunar stacks

[tiny topaz]

sounds good and then is there anything i need to specifically do in registax? except for sharpening and histogram?

[somber stratus]

I would use longer exposures btw. 35% isn't the brightest image

I aim for around 75% when I'm capturing. Firecapture has a live histogram so you can roughly tune it.

[somber stratus]

Not really. Sharpen, RGB align (can be done in AS!3 instead), then maybe auto colour balance.

[tiny topaz]

Oh okay I’ll have to take a look at that next time I capture

[tiny topaz]

Thank you for the help

Starting 60% normalize stack with RGB align in AS!3 so let’s see how it turns out

[tiny topaz]

@somber stratus just finished stacking and put it into registax and the image looks slightly better but I feel like the image is a little more blurry so I have to sharpen a little more to bring out some details

[somber stratus]

The normalisation only changes the brightness. Nothing else

[tiny topaz]

oh okay, here's the stacked image, I know its over sharpened but i feel like without the sharpening you miss out on a lot of good details.

[somber stratus]

That's about the right amount of sharpening

Wouldn't say it's over or under

[tiny topaz]

Perfect thank you again

[remote cipher]

Currently modding a webcam so my friend who's starting out can do some basic planetary

I got it at goodwill for five bucks (the tape is to cover the sensor until i get the 1.25 inch adapter)

[thin aspen]

When using an adc on a dob where should I set as the null point. In line with the tube?

[livid sierra]

Yes

Along the horizon as viewed through the eyepiece

[thin aspen]

so left and right movements should be level in the eyepeice

[serene laurel]

What can a Webcam do as a planetary camera? Is it worth it to buy one cheap and do that?

[left spindle]

well it does really well

[serene laurel]

Any images that you mave have/have taken with one?

[left spindle]

but a planetary cam is better since you can do a bit of deepsky with it

[serene laurel]

Because my cellphone did ok for me, as shown in my pfp, but I wanted know if it'd be worth it to upgrade at a cheaper price

[left spindle]

here you go

one sec

@serene laurel heres everything

all taken with a webcam and a 114aperture and 900mm fl scope untracked

[serene laurel]

Definetly impressive! What Webcam do you recommend?

[left spindle]

well i have only ever used a logitech C270webcam

[serene laurel]

Also, how would I adapt it to my telescopes focuser/eyepeice holder?

[left spindle]

i just modified my old phone adapter

ill sho

[serene laurel]

So it still requires there to be an eyepeice?

Probably a stupid question

But the phone holder part makes sense

[left spindle]

well the jupiter at lower magnifications are without eyepiece just the cam

the higher mag ones are with 4mm eyepiece and arlow

[serene laurel]

Ok, so it becomes like using a dslr camera. Just have to be able to achieve focus. Any issues there?

[left spindle]

yes exactly no furthur issues

but i would recommend a higher resolution cam

[serene laurel]

Makes sense, was it modified at all?

[left spindle]

just the small lens removed

[serene laurel]

Also, would there be any different results trying to it with the lens?

Like a 10mm or 6mm

[left spindle]

the object will be dimmer when done with eyepiece

[serene laurel]

At the moment, I've used a 20mm with a 2x barlow because the 20mm is better, but it worked for my cellphone

[left spindle]

not much but it wount focus without lens at 25mm eyepiece

[left spindle]

yess it would work

if you have a similar scope

[serene laurel]

I think I'll try getting a better lens than what I have, then try both options eventually. My phone cam has done well, but this sounds intriguing!

[serene laurel]

130mm/650 focal length. So f/5

It should be ok id think

[left spindle]

oohh idk if it will reach focus

someone must have your scope ataached to a dslr

[serene laurel]

Probably use something like a barlow if that's the case.

[left spindle]

ok

[serene laurel]

Yeah. Considering that issue happens with DSLRs and newtonians, I've heard barlows can fix it

Even if it's as simple as a 1.5x

[left spindle]

ok

[serene laurel]

But I currently only have a 2x. I do have a 3x too, but it's very poor.

So who knows. Maybe I'll try it

Thanks for your help, it's pretty cool process it sounds like

[left spindle]

the 2x is good uality?

[left spindle]

its fun

it will be a bit difficult to point to a object first time due to high mag

[serene laurel]

From my standards, yeah, it provided a clear image that I could focus on. I took this image with the barlow and a 20mm lens

[left spindle]

NICE

your phone has done incredibly good

[serene laurel]

Yeah. From what I was in 2022 (this was taken in November of 23) it was a large improvement

[left spindle]

Woah

cool

[serene laurel]

This server was probably the biggest contribution to my improvement. Even still, I want to get a 6mm lens and try it out

But with Jupiter falling out of season, I think I'll move to Saturn next

[left spindle]

yess

[serene laurel]

Which, when is saturn "in season"?

I've never truly gotten a good understanding of seasons. All I know is when they're out of season, imaging isn't the greatest

[left spindle]

yess

i guess in season would mean closeset

[serene laurel]

So when would that be?

[left spindle]

i guess june

[serene laurel]

I asked in #🤓-ask-a-nerd , guess we'll find out eventually.

[left spindle]

yess

[somber stratus]

Saturn's about as far out of season as it possibly can be at the moment. It's reaching solar conjunction tomorrow.

Depending on your latitude, the 24-25 season starts around June '24, peaks in early September '24, and ends in Jan '25.

I recommend downloading Stellarium on PC/laptop. Shows everything you need to know if you have a play.

https://stellarium.org/

[serene laurel]

Currently trying to get a new pc as my current one is old, from the early 2010s, any info about marsM

?

[somber stratus]

Stellarium has older versions and it's not demanding at all to run. Mars-M (IMX290)?

Decent but becoming outdated. I'd probably go for the Mars-M ii (IMX462) over it.

[serene laurel]

I bet, but recently my computer has had a big decline in speed and I think is about dead.

That old i5 processor is not handling it

[jaunty flame]

Just a quick feasibility check but how hard is it to convert a normal 12” dob into goto with onstep

[unkempt igloo]

Buying from new to building a "project" is a vastly different scenario to comment on. As a person that has a 24" HO dob with a designed and manufactured Onstep goto system that is good to use, and also a person that owns a 16" HO dob that I built a shonky Equatorial platform for to image with. I suggest that you buy a good quality Equatorial platform that is bigger than your scope set up now, this will cover you imaging needs and allow you to upgrade later if you choose.

[flint urchin]

captured jupiter tonight, results were decent

in this mess

[green pebble]

Whats that black smudge in the center, maybe an eclipse?

[brazen moth]

I need some help and/or inspiration for the name of my new web based planetary image stacker service/software (in the cloud). It's currently called "Cloud Stacker" internally, but that sounds like you can stack pictures of clouds. Which we actually do not want. We want clear skies.

Any ideas?
Biscuit Planetary Image Stacker? (BPIS)
Planetary Image Cloud Stacker? (PICS)
BiscuitInsight?
BiscuitStakkert?

[fading plume]

PICS

Bottom two might get you taken down

Same with top, kinda.

[high hull]

jerry

could just call it webstacker

[brazen moth]

Ha yeah fair point.

[brazen moth]

Does that explain everything though? I like the shortness.

It's gonna be open source so we could also make it "our" planetary stacking software. As long as it helps beginners getting started with astrophotography I'm happy

[dark cargo]

Are you planning to use js to stack on the users machine? Sending multiple GB size files and actually stacking them would get pretty expensive if you wanted to do it server side.

[brazen moth]

It currently works as follows:

• use ffmpeg.js to convert any list of file or movie to separate PNG's
• Use a web worker in the browser to rank all frames
• Only send the best frames to the server
• Stack on the server
• postprocessing in the client with webworkers and webassembly

I also hope to implement stacking in the client, but that code is "too much" for me to understand now.

Also, I'm pretty new to this myself even. I don't know how many frames people generally use when stacking planet images. Do people stack 2000 images for Jupiter? etc et.

Oh and it's 8bit! Because the internet is 8bit images. I could do all tasks in the background om 16 bit data, and present the results in 8bit, and then in the end you can always download the 16bit processed image. But that's for the future. (and then you upload the 16bit image to astrobin and it's 8bit again, o well...)

[dark cargo]

A rule of thumb for planetary is as many frames as possible in ~120 seconds. I'm limited to 30fps so I can only do a max of ~4k frames, pretty sure you could do 4 times that with an astrocam. That said the target audience for this will probably use phones and take compressed video anyway, so I have no idea what they'd actually try to stack.

[high hull]

how do you plan to deal with server costs and the like?

[brazen moth]

Yeah it's aimed at beginners indeed

A cheap server I bought was super fast with small jobs, I would have to do tests IRL. I'm also thinking about running a node as a community thing. Just like SETI@Home, some of us could join as stacker-node to help out stacking.

So if your powerful desktop pc is not doing anything, it could stack 1000 images for a beginner from alicante, spain.

I could use some additional data to test btw. I've tested with recent jupiter and mars data from #1021002743080558642, but if someone has more (heavy) stuff, I would really like to test!

[high hull]

for something aimed at beginners and such using phones i woulda just made it a phone app, might take a bit tho

[dark cargo]

Just whatever you do, make sure to limit the amount of frames they can submit for the moon. There WILL be people who try to stack their 20 minute 4k videos of the moon while its 50x50 pixels in frame.

[brazen moth]

I think currently moon and sun won't work anyway. Unless it's not a mozaic. I also think their browser will crash before it even manages to send the data to my server 😄

[brazen moth]

I could definitely look at that. maybe it already works in the phones browser. Or I just turn it into an app with Cordova etc.

[brazen moth]

Oh good point btw, maybe I should auto-crop each frame in the client.

While I do think that 3000pixels that are black can be stored very optimal in PNG's, without loosing detail.

[high hull]

i mean if its all black then you could use jpeg or gif even

"oh no, the void is being compressed"

[brazen moth]

PNG will also be smart about it without adding artefacts, jpeg will make it crappy

hehe

I'm also considering adding dumb features like "Add IO to this stack". So you can fake IO on Mars

[high hull]

i guess if the backround isnt perfectly black then yeah png would work best

[brazen moth]

It's 3,2,3,2,3,3,3,2,2,3,3,2 here mostly

You'd think mister biscuit would like to promote this thing if it's any good? Or maybe even put his name on it?

Is there someone with some hi-res hi-quality raw image or video data of a planet or so? Looking to stress test the thing!

[dark cargo]

This isn't exactly high res but if you put these into pipp to output raw avi it will explode the filesize. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1l2rqRG-lVbH5ItGo0Hg81ca2Wb_bukqf?usp=sharing the avi file is ~3 minutes of jupiter where I handtrack the whole thing, so it would be a good stress test for auto crop in the future. videos in folders are intended to be combined in pipp for one output file. All are compressed due to me shooting with a DSLR, at least it saves time uploading/downloading the data.

[brazen moth]

Which percentage or number of images where in the final stack when you created a stacked and processed result?

and thanks!

[dark cargo]

I roughly use 15-25% since my seeing is terrible but I do need more data to get the noise low enough. I usually look at the graph in autostakkert to see what % to keep, since at somepoint there is a significant drop in quality of frames.

[brazen moth]

Yeah picking that significant drop position can also be automated for beginners I think.

I don't have noise reduction implemented yet, but this weirdly cropped saturn is what my tool currently has to offer 🙂

(based on out_154.avi)

[white prawn]

Poor Saturn

[jaunty flame]

Yeah I believe an EQ platform is the best way to go

Thanks for your advice

What about a diy eq platform?

I’m very unlikely to get a bigger don than I have now

[flint urchin]

thats what im thinking, its likely an eclipse

[somber stratus]

I’m sure I can find something from the better nights I’ve had with the 16”

[thick heron]

There is a good chance whatever programming language the server-side stacking algorithm is written in can be ported to the client-side via WebAssembly.
https://github.com/appcypher/awesome-wasm-langs?tab=readme-ov-file#awesome-webassembly-languages-

[white prawn]

I doubt you've had anything less than better with that

[brazen moth]

Yep! At least ffmpeg and the postprocessing is in wasm now.

[unkempt igloo]

I don't really suggest that to people because i don't know what kind of DIY skill they have. If you think you can make one have a go at it. It not that hard you just need to have some level of detail when making the Vertical Segments. My 16" HO dob fits on the platform i made for the 10" GSO clone so just make it a little bigger and all will be ok

Damo

[jaunty flame]

I haven’t got any experience with a similar large project involving wood work but I have got some electronic experience. I do have a router, jigsaw and other wood working tools tho and I my father does have a lot of experience with woodwork so he can help with the precision required to manufacture the curve for the Vertical Segments.

Thanks for such detailed advice

[thin aspen]

Just to confirm the null position for the levers on the adc should be inline with the horizon seen through the eyepiece for me I used a roof of a house as it should be level right?

[white prawn]

Correct

[somber stratus]

My Omegon ADC works like this, but my ZWO one is weirdly 45° offset from horizontal.

[white prawn]

You have two ADCs? What do you do, super-correction? 😆

[livid sierra]

That is weird

[somber stratus]

Omegon is for Venus as it has higher UV transmission (my old one), and the ZWO has less spacing so it reduces the power of my 3x barlow a little - slightly better optically.

[white prawn]

If I want to get a decent image of Venus I'm going to have to spend a few bucks on a filter, aren't I.

[somber stratus]

Not necessarily.

What scope do you have again

[white prawn]

Orion 8"/1000mm

I'm thinking if I want to see clouds or any form of detail. All I've been able to image is a white ball.

[somber stratus]

What filters have you used previously?

[white prawn]

Currently shooting w/o filter - but all I have right now is UVIR cut

[somber stratus]

Yeah, you won't get much with that. You can either go the route of Violet/Blue filters, or UV.

UV is more expensive, but also delivers the most contrast. It's quite noisy though

[white prawn]

What would you suggest?

[somber stratus]

I'd start with Violet as it's pretty cheap. Stack any Wratten #47 violet filter with an IR cut filter.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/visual-oberving-rgb-filter-sets/astro-essentials-125-wratten-47-violet-filter.html e.g.

Problem is these pass both UV, Violet/blue and IR, hence the IR cut is needed to block the unwanted IR

You can get special IR-only cutting filters as to pass all the UV. Example is one I ordered recently to test out: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004391282565.html

[white prawn]

I take it an 80A filter won't fit the bill

[somber stratus]

Probably not, but the 47 isn't exactly expensive.

£9 here

Or you just bite the bullet and get a UV filter like the Photometric (U)BVRI from Baader.

[white prawn]

I've already summoned the clouds by ordering some solar equip

But whatever 9 GBP translates to in USD, prob not bad

[coarse aspen]

its like $12

[brisk yacht]

@somber stratus I know you are really good at processing, can you help me derotate images?

I always seem to get this black and white line (this is ken's data)

[somber stratus]

What does your outline frame look like?

[brisk yacht]

Wait

[somber stratus]

& what time difference between images are you trying to derotate?

anything over ~15-20m will start to have artefacting

[brisk yacht]

3 minutes

Ill sharpen it first ig

Yeah sorry for wasting your time but i just realized i have to sharpen it first

Now it doesn't have any artifacts

[somber stratus]

Yeah, sharpen first should help

allows a more accurate alignment too

If you need any more data to practice, give me a shout and I can give some of mine.

[thin aspen]

I am putting my adc in front of my camera then 3x Barlow and uv/ir cut. The spacing provided by the adc makes me think I’m oversampling as when I sharpen nothing changes that much or I get artifacts. It was also trash seeing. Should I try reduce the spacing?

[brazen moth]

What does this derotation mean btw? Does it just make the equator straight from left to right? Or is it to work with the fast rotation/winds of Jupiter to not make it blurry if you have data for a long period?

[white prawn]

What derotation does is take multiple images of a planet, that were ostensibly taken over a long stretch of time, and stacking them in a way that the rotation of the planet is counteracted. For example, when I imaged Jupiter over 45 minutes on Dec 6 2023 the GRS moved to the right and Io moved off screen. Stacking the entire set would have blurred the GRS and Io. Derotation finds a center point, and allows the best of all the stacks to be used, to create a clear single final image.

[brazen moth]

@somber stratus, @dark cargo @high hull Hey guys, you've shown some interest (or at least responded to me 🙂 ) into my PICS project (Planetary Image Cloud Stacker). I have a pre-alfa version ready for a few test-runs if you like. I don't feel like sharing the URL publicly yet, because I'm afraid of the thing breaking. I don't have enough experience with Discord, but can we just have a private thread with the 4 of us in it or something?

[somber stratus]

You can make a private group chat - I’m not sure about a thread that’s private

[brazen moth]

Are you okay with being in that? 😄

[somber stratus]

yeah, if the others are

[high hull]

ye

[brazen moth]

Still enough work to do for some files :).

[vapid depot]

@fathom oak that is a good sign

[fathom oak]

it's supposed to be clear tonight

[vapid depot]

Let’s go

[manic pebble]

i hope for you

for me rn its misty and shit weather. and its already dark

[fathom oak]

supposed to be 46% cloud cover at 6pm and 8% cover at 7pm

sunset at 6:30

I haven't gotten a good image in months

[manic pebble]

same for me

[fathom oak]

wait if I leave the dust cover off for it to acclimate will my mirror get dirty?

[manic pebble]

i think not, at night you also have the cover off right?

or are you imaging some black shit

[fathom oak]

lol

[manic pebble]

but hope for you birds dont go shit on it

[vapid depot]

I saw some low flying birds leave shit 15 feet from my setup on neighbors shed

I think they were geese too

[fathom oak]

they went on a bombing run

[vapid depot]

LMFAOO yeah. God it was so much too

If that had gotten on optics it woulda been near game over

Disgusting cleanup

[steep apex]

They’re practicing, watch out they might start a war

[white prawn]

Canadian Geese? They're known AH's.

[ruby tartan]

Reprocessing some files

[sharp ridge]

8"?

[ruby tartan]

Yes

[livid sierra]

Crazy

[ruby tartan]

I don't have a camera to capture, but I'll soon get one to get back to work on Mars

[livid sierra]

Didn't you have a QHY462?

[ruby tartan]

I've sold

[livid sierra]

Why

[ruby tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/shrug-gif-16174777086572528592

[tawny cave]

does anyone know how to get fine details like this on the suns corona during an eclipse?

most shots i see look like this and the corona doesn't have all those details the other picture has

i know the first picture used HDR techniques, but what made the corona so detailed?

[fading plume]

Just HDR and a little deconvoloution

Bit of an idea on how a short hdr shot looks

[tawny cave]

would a long exposure be necessary for those details in the upper corona? or lower exposure

[fading plume]

Upper Corona as in near the sun or way out in to space?

[tawny cave]

way out

[tawny cave]

in this image for example

[fading plume]

You need longer exposures

[tawny cave]

its pretty insane how much details is present

im gonna take a bunch of different exposure times and hopefully get a good HDR shot

[tawny cave]

thats a single shot?

[fading plume]

Well, stack of like 20

[fading plume]

I highly recommend buying sharpcap pro. The sequencer is great.

[tawny cave]

im probably gonna do that and set up a sequencer so i can enjoy the eclipse

im gonna make it take a bunch of different exposure lengths at the same ISO

taking a video wouldnt be better?

[fading plume]

I did that, tried doing something last minute, enjoyed the eclipse for about 20 seconds then realised my sequencer wasn’t going

Shat my pants, then got the last few seconds of eclipse.

[tawny cave]

no way 😭 did you not practice beforehand?

im scared this happens to me lol

[tawny cave]

wow this still turned out great

[fading plume]

I did, however stellarium lied to me about the timing of baileys beads so I had to switch over sooner than expected.

[tawny cave]

what should i do to avoid that?

should i just turn on the sequencer when i think its time for baileys beads?

[fading plume]

Make sure your frames are saved before starting sequence. That was my issue. buffer was full.

[tawny cave]

i've never used a sequencer, whats a buffer?

[fading plume]

It’s in all capturing, camera makes frames faster than computer can save it

[sharp ridge]

Cooked, 💩

[tawny cave]

how should i do it to not get this issue on eclipse day

[sharp ridge]

[tawny cave]

you think that shot is better?

[sharp ridge]

Ofc

[fading plume]

Just look on the screen. It will tell you how many frames are buffered

[tawny cave]

im gonna practice a bunch then

[tawny cave]

mmh

[sharp ridge]

I would just go for closeups on proms

With big scopes

[tawny cave]

i wanna do that but filters not big enough

[sharp ridge]

Maybe I don't like it because that's what the instagram astronomers do nowadays

[tawny cave]

fair

i havent seen many proms closeups

[somber stratus]

Latest Mercury & Venus section newsletter from the BAA. Has a lot of useful info regarding Venus nightside imaging if anyone is interested.

[lunar hamlet]

Is this possible untracked or are exposures too long?

[fading plume]

Bit of both

[steep apex]

What I would do is I would take 1 second exposures and just stack it

[lunar hamlet]

Huh?

[fading plume]

Outer corona needs long exposures. Inner shorter.

[lunar hamlet]

Oh okay, nice, so I should be able to get some then but how long for outer?

Asking this cuz im selling my mount

[fading plume]

Like 1-5” with a few degree fov.

[lunar hamlet]

Ah, then I should be fine

[brazen moth]

Hi all. I'm working on a cloud based planetary image stacking website. It works pretty well already and got some feedback from @somber stratus, in the screenshots I use Mars data from him . I want to move towards the next phase and test with more people. Who is interested? Please DM me and help me break this thing!

[white prawn]

I've got a few stacks laying around. Some good, some yikes.

[brazen moth]

Sent you a PM with the link

[tiny topaz]

I’m interested if you’re still looking for more participants

[brazen moth]

DM!

[white prawn]

I'm sure he'd be interested, I've found a few ways to make it go "wut" 😆

[brazen moth]

yeah would be great to get this thing stable

[brazen moth]

Pfff, I asked ChatGPT to improve the About text for PICS:

<h2>About PICS - Planetary Image Cloud Stacker</h2>
<p>PICS is the first web-based online planetary image stacking tool available in the solar system.

=>

<h2>About PICS - Your Cloud-Based Planetary Imaging Partner</h2>
<p>PICS stands as the solar system's premier web-based planetary image stacking solution.

[manic pebble]

i have an celestron c14 and i use the zwo asi 224mc for planetary imaging with 2x barlow.
Is it worth upgrading to a newer/better planetary camera for better results? or should i keep this

[somber stratus]

Maybe a 585, but 224 isn't terrible

[manic pebble]

i know but it was my first planetary camera and im ready to upgrade.

and are player one cameras good?

[somber stratus]

Yeah

Better than ZWO in my opinion.

Many of us here use the Uranus-C

D Peach also uses one from time to time having spoken to him about it.

He said it's on-par with mono R,G,B filter imaging.

[manic pebble]

i looked at that one

[manic pebble]

thats pretty cool!

[somber stratus]

Neptune-C 664 is also good. Same specs as the Uranus-C but smaller sensor

cheaper slightly

[manic pebble]

i also saw the saturn-m but its way to expensive

[somber stratus]

yup

only a 533 sensor anyway.

[manic pebble]

gonna check it out. are there some important specs where i have to look out for? besides fps?

[somber stratus]

FPS is rarely an issue. As long as it's USB3, you can use a suitable ROI to get sufficient fps.

But QE mainly

and maybe full-well, read noise

[manic pebble]

Neptune 664C VS Uranus-C
Full Well 38.5K e- 47K e-
R. Noise 6.1e~0.67e 6.5-0.7e
Qe peak 91% 91%
Megapixel 4.2MP 8.3MP

i think the uranus-c is alot better right?

[fading plume]

comparable

the diffrence is sensor size

full well is sorta useful, but not really. you record in 8 bit.

[manic pebble]

uranus c has higher resolution. but when both cropping to lets say 640x480. does the uranus c also lose more detail?

[fading plume]

the resoloution is the same?

[manic pebble]

neptune has 2704*1540 and uranus c has 3856×2180

im not the best in understanding this btw

[fading plume]

yeah the sensor is larger, resoloution is the same.

both have 2.9 micron pixels

[manic pebble]

ooh right! gotcha

[somber stratus]

Yeah I mean 99% of the time. It's useful for some applications when running 16-bit

i.e Uranian rings and Venus NS

but for the majority of applications full well is irrelevant

[fading plume]

Deep space is where it really stands out

[somber stratus]

yup

[manic pebble]

i went with the uranus-c. thanks guys! now its waiting for new planet season

[coarse aspen]

wait what

I never shot 8 bit lol

[fading plume]

Do so

It’s pretty good

[coarse aspen]

I always shot RAW16

for my lunar and planetary

[white prawn]

Can you actually get the Uranian rings from an earth-based telescope?

[coarse aspen]

Tom has done it

[fossil schooner]

His question still applies (tom isn't human)

[whole osprey]

Tom may actually have a telescope in orbit

[somber stratus]

Yeah, a few of us amateurs have managed it.

Martin Lewis, myself, among others

https://www.astrobin.com/ufh43o/

[manic pebble]

Should I use it with an uv/ir cut filter?

[dark cargo]

Yes, the 585 is pretty good at picking up longer wavelengths and since longer wavelengths cannot focus in as small of a point you'd lose some details if you don't block them with the uv-ir cut filter.

[manic pebble]

Thanks!

[thin aspen]

has anyone had a problem with registax here not opening some functions like gamma stuck in minimised mode?

why are my images not sending D:

[high hull]

discord issues

[zealous smelt]

I also have this issue. RGB align is stuck for me. I just switched to astrosurface

[tiny topaz]

Do you find astrosurface is better than the traditional pipp-autostakkert-registax method?

[zealous smelt]

I’m too inexperienced with astrosurface to accurately compare. I made the switch last month. I like it though, seems to work well for me

Registax was auto-stretching my data, which I didn’t like. Astrosurface doesn’t

[kindred imp]

You have to reset the UI in the top left, I can't remember off the top of my head what's its under but that is some general direction

[wispy pagoda]

There isn't much dynamic range to capture and the "brightness precision" you loose on single frames is nothing when you stack thousands of them so you better go with the faster fps of 8 bit

[cloud copper]

What is better

Televue 2x barlow

Or x cel 3x

With a 12” dob

And a ceres c imx224

[main flume]

x-cel is small and good

I use the 2x and it's pretty sharp

[coarse aspen]

Televue is probably a bit better optically but it doesnt matter because the X-Cel isnt going to bottleneck you, id go for the X-Cel just for the extra focal length

[dark cargo]

Is it possible to unscrew or disassemble the x-cel barlows or are they glued together? Was wondering if it would be possible to get the lens cell from one and screw it directly into a camera for less than 2-3x magnification.

[manic pebble]

I believe it yes. But not sure. I have one but never tried it

[somber stratus]

3x X-Cel due to sampling

224 has 3.75 micron pixels so you need a decent focal length

[white prawn]

Possible? Maybe? Something that falls readily into the realm of "would recommend"? I hesitate.

[white prawn]

I once unscrewed my 5x Barlow. Regretted it. Got great images even after but I wonder to this day how much that impacted my image quality.

[summer field]

Yes, it's possible (at least with the 2x)

[cloud copper]

Would a 5x barlow be better? But I would have to buy an Eq platform to be able to use the scope at such a high fl

[main flume]

I've unscrewed my x-cel and nothing noticeable happpened

[white prawn]

I'm just indicating my experience. You can chalk it up to "I'm not comfortable enough to do it."

[main flume]

Lol yea

[coarse aspen]

Anyone gonna try the Venus and Saturn conjunction?

There's decent distance from the sun

[topaz elk]

when is it?

[coarse aspen]

It's actually now

[topaz elk]

goddamn it

[coarse aspen]

About 20 arcmins apart

[topaz elk]

nvm my scope would be too narrow

[coarse aspen]

Moses

Mosaic

[topaz elk]

thats true

haven't done planetary or anything in a while

also its below the horizon for me lol

[sharp ridge]

quick go at Apollo 11 site

seeing was deteriorating quite fast

[green pebble]

I wanna try imaging INA

Would it be possible with 130/900 newtonian and ASI224MC

Also its full moon and the seeing is average

[sharp ridge]

No

[dusky holly]

What res do you need to capture it?

[green pebble]

Why no😭

I still wanna try

[cloud copper]

Possible with a 224 and a 12” dob?

[green pebble]

I mean there is no harm in trying so imma try

[cloud copper]

with a 12" and a ceres-c camera

first time imaging the moon with this setup

looks decent

[steep apex]

Yes but the thing is it’s not good to attempt to image it during full moon, rather it’s better to image it when the terminator is a bit closer

Plus it would look better

[topaz elk]

very possible

well

not possible if u dont have barlow

its def possible 8” and up

[sharp ridge]

Possible

[sharp ridge]

But here needs more res

[cloud copper]

some mercury data, if someone wants to process them

here is what I managed to get

with a 12" dob and ceres-c camera + gso 2.5x barlow + uv ir cut filter

my first time imaging this planet, turned out decent

[green pebble]

No i swear my 5 inch scope and my asi224mc work perfect in harmony and the res is perfect. TRUST ME LEMME TRY IMAGING INA

[cloud copper]

And how do I get more res?

[dark cargo]

more barlow(and good seeing). Assuming its an F5 scope, you could use a 4x one, as long as the seeing supports it the telescope should be able to deliver it. But using a small sensor will make it harder unless your finder is well aligned.

[cloud copper]

Ok, what barlow do you recommend?

I have a gso 2.5x

[dark cargo]

that should work, you can extend it to 4x with some extension tubes. more distance between barlow and sensor = more powerful barlow

[cloud copper]

I did but I cant reach focus

[dark cargo]

in what direction?

cannot go in enough?

[cloud copper]

I have to move it closer to the mirror

To the secondary

[dark cargo]

Ah thats harder. You could try to see if you can unscrew the part with the glass from the barlow tube, might be some way to screw it onto the camera or get an extension tube that can be put between the lens and barlow tube.

Not sure what else you could do other than flip the focuser's 1.25" tube holder thing around. If possible not sure what focuser you have.

[cloud copper]

These are my extension tubes, the first one works the other one doesn’t

[cloud copper]

The barlow can be unscrewed like this

[dark cargo]

Ah I think you could buy something like a 1.25" tube extensions assuming that is a filter thread(~28.5mm diameter). or you could screw it directly into the camera?

[cloud copper]

No, it can’t be

This is the focuser that I have

@dark cargo I did this, do you think that it will work

[dark cargo]

I think the extension tube is too thick? but it might since the camera is further away.

[cloud copper]

I usually use it like this

[cloud copper]

guys, what is the best way to stack and process your lunar imaging data? Do you have some softwares and some tutorials that could help me?

[thin aspen]

If untracked, use pipp then autostakkert and then sharpen in registax. If tracked skip pipp

[cloud copper]

its untracked

so I will use pipp

but for processing in registax6? Any tips?

[thin aspen]

Also is it full disk?

[thin aspen]

Ngl I just play around with the wavelet sliders until it looks good. Also RGB balance too and sometimes de-ringing is good for moon as it get rid of bright edges on craters.

[cloud copper]

in autostackert, do you use the normalise stack feature ?

here is an image that I've just processed, any tips ?

[thin aspen]

I have no idea srry. Images look good though

Maybe a bit more sharpening

[main flume]

How do I stop Autostakkert from making these artifacts?

The histogram isn't even clipped

[white prawn]

Try rotating it by 90° when extracting frames

[lunar hamlet]

Use bigger ap grids, like 104 works very nice I find

[main flume]

I did

They got worse

Every ap grid size makes artifacts everywhere

Same with dark-sensitivity placing or whatever it's called. I tried lowering it and the edges were still cutting off

[lunar hamlet]

Show me a autostakkert screenshot

[main flume]

I deleted them. Why would that matter anyways?

[lunar hamlet]

I wanna see

[main flume]

That's not a reason

[lunar hamlet]

I must see

[main flume]

Here's what the edges look like. Sorry that's all I have left :(

[lunar hamlet]

Huh?

Not supposed todo that lol

Also, that registax, not autostakkert xD

[high hull]

i dunno crop it out and pretend it doesn't exist

[lunar hamlet]

It’s a lot to crop from a good place imo

[topaz elk]

send raw?

you dont need a barlow to see Ina for 8” and above

you would need like 4/5 seeing though but its possible

[main flume]

Best I could get. I also said it's all I have left

I got Ina with dslr and native FL recently

[lunar hamlet]

Lmfao

[lunar hamlet]

Alr

[dusky holly]

What pixel scale?

[main flume]

Nvm it was reduced

0.6"/pixel

[cloud copper]

Hello guys

Today there will be a iss pass and I wanna image it

I have a 12” dob, imx224 and gso2.5x barlow

Any tips

Barlow or no barlow

What setting should I use

I saw that @somber stratus has some great pics ( sorry for ping )

[thin aspen]

I think use similar setting to when you are imaging the moon. I would use no Barlow to start if manually tracking

[steep apex]

Use a Barlow, what software are you using?

[somber stratus]

ISS is much brighter than the moon. I'd expose for about 20% of the Moon's brightness imho @cloud copper

hard to give settings without a reference image. You'll just have to guess first time around. I'd go 1-millisec @ 150-200gain with the barlow, and 1-millisec @ 100 gain without.

ish

[cloud copper]

Ok sounds good

Ima send the results here

But don’t expect much since it’s my first time and the seeing is bad

Like a 1.7/5

Really windy

Processing now

Let’s hope I get some good results

@somber stratus should I export the video in TIFF or Avi

Recorded in ser

[somber stratus]

you can process in SER

but if you want to upload a video here you need to convert to AVI then to MP4 in Photoshop or another application.

[cloud copper]

Ok

[cloud copper]

here is my image

looks decent for my first try

[somber stratus]

Nice. Much better than my first attempt.

[somber stratus]

Focus maybe slightly off, but otherwise good with exposure.

[cloud copper]

Yea, noticed that the focus was a bit off

I need to buy a bahtinov mask and an optical finder scope

The red dot isn’t as accurate

[topaz elk]

why bahtinov

[shrewd peak]

hey guys around what magnification would i need to see the bands of jupiter pretty well?

[topaz elk]

id say like 300x

even then its also up to seeing at least for me

[wispy pagoda]

I've started developping a deconvolution app (mainly for fun) and I tried it on some of Ken's data and was quite surprised to see the results with a simple guessed moffat profile

It basically runs real time and I'll soon add an airy disk profile

[olive saddle]

dang that's crazy

seems almost too good to be true

[wispy pagoda]

That's the power of maths ;)

Congrats on red nerd btww!

[wispy pagoda]

I'll add support for regularization (probably Tikhonov) so it might be better at preserving snr in low detail areas

Tho this data is too good to need it

[olive saddle]

math is fun when it does super cool stuff like this

[wispy pagoda]

if anyone want to try it

I don't recommend it for now

Also you need arrayfire runtime installed (about 3 gigs), I'll change that in the future

[coarse aspen]

i will be comparing it to blurx immediately

[wispy pagoda]

Slow down haha it's only the beginning of the beginning

Tomorrow I'll add all the regularization stuff to reduce star ringing and noise amplification

And next step is an NN to extract psf

[coarse aspen]

@frozen root

vikrams making a deconvolution AI too

[cloud copper]

Hello nerds, finally made it here ))

[dark cargo]

This is really interesting, do you have any plans of making it open source eventually?

[wispy pagoda]

Oh I thought he stopped doing it

[wispy pagoda]

Well I'd 'love to buy my code is just unreadable

When I'll refractor my 1000s lines files I'll definitely do that

It will be free anyway

[dark cargo]

if the compiler can read it, so can we(not stating a timeframe through...). I'd say its definetly a good idea, otherwise you could have a similar situation as with PIPP: dead website, no source code so no one can really improve it without a lot of effort.

[wispy pagoda]

That's a good idea indeed

I'll clean it up at least a bit and make a git repo

Most of the code is for the ui (I absolutely hate doing uis)

[wispy pagoda]

I'll probably try some of the methods they recommend in this article, this results are absolutely crazy

It handles noise, clipped pixels and crazy psfs really well while remaining simple

The deconvolution itself also stays classic Richardson Lucy so it stays really" authentic "

[cloud copper]

Should I bother to image the iss if its highest point is at 58°?

[somber stratus]

If it's above 45°, I'd say it's worth it.

[cloud copper]

Imma try it today

Maybe I’ll get some better results

The seeing is much better

[cloud copper]

man, I'm so sad rn XD

my capture failed in the middel of the capture

hopefully I still got some good data

[cloud copper]

here is tonights iss

looks ok in my opinion

Im sad that I lost some of the data (

[steep apex]

Nice improvements, you got the little sections from the white reflecting panels as well as shapes of the modules

[cloud copper]

Yea

[cloud copper]

I bet I’ll get even more details in the weekend

[zealous smelt]

What kind of artefact is this? Got it all over my recent moon mosaic and can’t tell what’s causing it

[whole osprey]

What are you using to stack?, it may be from the process you are using.

[zealous smelt]

I used AS!3, used pretty large APs to avoid artefacts

[steep apex]

[brazen moth]

Hey @wispy pagoda want to work together?

[carmine void]

What’s this?

[stiff pebble]

is the celestron 2x barlow worth it?

[white prawn]

My Celestron plain Barlow hasn't given me issues, and if you're getting the LX the 2x or 3x are $100 so go for the 3x unless your needs are strictly 2X

[steep apex]

ISS pass over

[carmine void]

you can get the xcel for a good price on aliexpress if you dont mind buying from there

[tiny topaz]

To you have any tips/pointers on how to capture it?

[cloud copper]

Yea

Go for a really slow shutter speed, like 1ms

And the iso like a 100-200

Depending on your setup

Make sure that your focus is perfect

And that your finder scope is very well aligned

[fading plume]

Looks like drizzle stuff. And try as4.

As debayer is weird too. It drizzles with the bayer. Which is normally good except when it gets confused

Debayer in pipp

[wispy pagoda]

Oh yeah why not!

[late spoke]

Wow such a detailed image! Did u use a 24 inch telescope?

Moon non stacked Nikon p950 no telescope

Venus with Nikon p950 no telescope

[cloud copper]

@somber stratus how do you get such a high fl on your scope by using just a 3x barlow? Does the adc add to the fl ?

[fading plume]

adc is a spacer so it increases focal length

with my setup (same camera and im pretty sure ADC, 2x xcel) it adds about 1.55x. so my 2x barlow becomes 3.55x

[somber stratus]

Yeah ADC acts as a spacer when placed between barlow and camera as LMC says. Pushes me to 4.5x

[cloud copper]

So my 2.5x barlow will become a 4x?

[somber stratus]

Not necessarily. It changes from barlow to barlow

But around 3-4.5 yeah

[cloud copper]

Cool

[cloud copper]

So should I buy an x-cell 3x if I have a gso 2.5x? Is it better?

[somber stratus]

Not necessarily. Depends on native f/ratio and camera pixel size

Works better for my setup, sure. 2.9um pixels with f/4.4 native

[cloud copper]

I have f/5 native 1500fl and 3.75um

What would work best for my setup

[somber stratus]

Certainly not 3x + ADC, unless you get a different camera with 2.9 micron pixels like me

nevermind, i'm stupid

Was thinking the other way around. Yeah 3x + ADC is good

You need around f/26

so ~5x

[cloud copper]

Good, thanks

But first I should buy an Eq platform, I bet it’s hard to track the planets manually at f/26

[somber stratus]

ZWO ADC lets you get ~4.5x, Omegon/Stellalyra ADC gets to 4.8x

[somber stratus]

for sure

[cloud copper]

Which one is better ?

[somber stratus]

Optically they are both fine. I've used both and got very close to diffraction limit

The latter ones get you closer to the 5x, so I'd probably just go for those

cheaper too

[cloud copper]

Ok

Thanks

Oh yea, Tom, how do I calculate the zoom that I have with my astrocam

[dark cargo]

You can figure out the focal length you are at by measuring how many pixels across a planet is. just grab its current angular diameter from stellarium or somewhere else. https://www.astropix.com/html/astrophotography/astrophotography-calculators.html#effosi

[somber stratus]

WinJupos does it nicely once you have an image with the setup. That's how I work out that I'm at specifically 8090mm for instance

Just use the outline frame there

[cloud copper]

Ok, thanks

Oh I cant wait another month for Saturn to be back

[somber stratus]

But if you use the X-Cel 3x and either of the ADCs I mentioned, it'll be the same as mine.

4.5x and 4.87x respectively

ZWO / Omegon

6750mm / 7300mm FL

[cloud copper]

I’ll go for the omegon if it gives me more fl

[tiny topaz]

Does anyone have tips on how to capture the iss with a manual scope?

[glacial sable]

@somber stratus did you ever image jupiter in methane, and if yes then is it worth getting another filter

i'm thinking about combining it with rgb

[somber stratus]

I've done plenty of CH4 yeah. https://www.astrobin.com/ts8wtm/

[somber stratus]

for false colour, RGB isn't all too useful. Other IR passes are the best for that

[glacial sable]

ok, thanks

[glacial sable]

then what should i combine it with?

[somber stratus]

Other IR passes

742+ works, as does RG610

I explain what Lyaphine & I did in the AB post above

[steep apex]

Is CH4 plus IR?

[somber stratus]

Says the palette we used in the description.

[shell epoch]

Your planetary imaging skills, are Nasa level good

it amazes me every time you post

[cloud copper]

new ISS image, this one isn't so good, I was kinda out of focus, I was focusing in a hurry because the ISS was visible and I didn't have all of my things optimised(settings, focus, finderscope)

[late spoke]

Are you kidding that’s amazing!

[cloud copper]

Thanks, but could have been better in my opinion

[thin aspen]

That still brilliant did you hand track

[cloud copper]

Yea

[thin aspen]

Nice

[cloud copper]

I’ve gotten better at hand tracking since my last attempts

[cloud copper]

Is the Neptune-c II a good camera for planetary?

Found it second hand at a decent price

[hasty hull]

Yep, one of the goats

[limber reef]

Which lenses are best for planetary imaging

[dark cargo]

You usually don't image with an eyepiece, unless when using a phone in which case any plossl should be fine. but you'd probably still have some things like chromatic abberation from the phone lens.
If using a DSLR or astrocam you'd want a decent barlow.

[limber reef]

I’m using my phone

@dark cargo

[dark cargo]

I don't really know that much about phone planetary, but you'd want to get 1:1 video(1 pixel on sensor = 1 pixel in video aka picture and video should have the planet be a similar diameter in pixels). and you'd want each pixel to see a distance of roughly 1/3rd of the dawes limit of the scope.

[steep apex]

Plossl and X-Cel barlows worked pretty good for me

[limber reef]

X2 x3 x5???

[steep apex]

3x

[limber reef]

For planets?

[steep apex]

Yeah

[limber reef]

Oh alr then i already got one

[steep apex]

I used to do planetary phone astrophotography

[somber stratus]

Surprised you even found one second hand

Usually people keep them

[cloud copper]

I don’t know why he is selling it

It’s band new

[somber stratus]

Might have an issue with it

Bit suspect

[cloud copper]

Ig

It’s 1400 lei

And a Uranus c is 2500 if I buy it from a Romanian website

But 1500 lei if I buy it from Player one

[somber stratus]

I’d just get a new one

Barely 10% more from P1

I’d look into the Neptune 664 also

That’s better than the C-II

[cloud copper]

But is Uranus c better that Neptune 664?

[somber stratus]

If you look at the performance of the pixels, no. It’s just a smaller sensor.

Just as good in the majority of cases

Uranus-C just has a little more FoV and passive cooling

[cloud copper]

If you were to buy a camera now, which one would you choose?

[somber stratus]

I think the 664. When I got my Uranus-C, the 664 didn’t exist

Although I still think the Uranus is worth it.

I like the extra FoV

[cloud copper]

I’m used with small FoV cause of my 224

So it won’t be a problem

[somber stratus]

Yeah if I were you, I’d 100% go for the 664

[cloud copper]

Nice, but should I buy the camera first and wait on the Eq platform ? Or the other way around?

[somber stratus]

I’d probably go for the EQ first since you have a 224

Then you can at least use a longer focal length with the Neptune 664 when you get it

Hand tracking you’ll notice little benefit

[cloud copper]

I have to have a decent setup until summer, when the planetary season comes

12” dob
Neptune c
Eq platform
3x barlow x cell
Adc omegon
Uv ir cut filter

Do I need anything else ?

[somber stratus]

Not particularly. Maybe an IR pass filter for poor seeing nights but that’s not “needed” per se

[cloud copper]

Does it help with the seeing? I don’t have many good seeing nights here

[somber stratus]

Can get a 685 from player one when you order the camera.

And yeah longer wavelengths are less affected by seeing.

But you lose intrinsic resolution through a worse diffraction-limit so if seeing is excellent, you won’t resolve as much as you would in visible light. It’s a trade off

[cloud copper]

Neptune c
Eq platform
Adc
Ir pass
Barlow(I already have a gso 2.5x)
From this list what should I purchase first ?

[somber stratus]

EQ, then ADC, then Neptune then IR pass imho.

Sorry, Barlow before Neptune

With ADC

[cloud copper]

Sounds good, I might be able to buy these until summer,

So adc, barlow, Neptune ?

[somber stratus]

Just understand that to get the most out of the Neptune 664, you’ll need a long focal length and an ADC. For that you need the EQ platform first.

You can maybe leave the barlow upgrade until after, but you definitely should get the ADC before, or with the camera

[cloud copper]

Does it make such a difference?

[somber stratus]

Oh yes. ADC is huge (unless you live near the equator)

[cloud copper]

No lol

Do you have an Eq platform or just the goto ?

[somber stratus]

GoTo Alt-Az

[thick heron]

Even near the equator it still helps to have one when aiming lower than ~65 degrees.

[somber stratus]

Yup

Luckily for me the planets never get above 62 so that simplifies things

[cloud copper]

Is 40 minutes of tracking good for an Eq platform?

Found a guy that can make me one for 200€

[somber stratus]

Yeah. Lyaphine’s lasts about that time. Having used it, it’s very manageable

Becomes slightly annoying if you want to do long time-lapses but that’s a bit of a niche

[cloud copper]

Eh, if you align it back fast it won’t be a problem ig

[somber stratus]

Yeah but the apparent rotation of the planet in the FoV changes too

[cloud copper]

Right

Well a 40 min rotation is fine to XD

[cloud copper]

@somber stratus I’ve looked in to the Neptune 664C, looks really good

But what does sensor tilt do ?

[somber stratus]

Don't need it, but it can be used to remove interference patterns in Solar H-alpha imaging.

Or fix tilt in wide DSO images, but again you won't need it for long FL planetary

[cloud copper]

Ok, good, thanks

[zealous smelt]

I really don’t know how to debayer. I always get this grid artefact. What might I be doing wrong?

I use pipp to debayer. Select “debayer raw image files” and bilinear debayer algorithm

[final bear]

1 hour of rotation on Jupiter from back in February with my nexstar 4se and svbony sv305

[cloud copper]

Guys, do you think that it’s possible to use this goto mount on a spring telescope, like the one from omegon

[somber stratus]

No, the mating mechanism is completely different

[high hull]

duct tape

[cloud copper]

Oh that sucks, is there a goto version for a spring telescope ?

[somber stratus]

no idea

most people use EQ plates

[ruby tartan]

Is the Sun a planet?

[high hull]

no, its a DSO

just unusually close

[ruby tartan]

https://tenor.com/view/obviii-ibvii-gif-24894454

[ruby tartan]

@sharp ridge IS THIS REAL???

😱 😱 😱 😱

[unkempt igloo]

EQ platforms are very good but have limitations as you have discussed with Tom

I have the Neptune Cii and its great but for a little more get the 664 as discussed again

When you reset the platform just rotate the camera in the focuser 10 degrees (if its 40 minutes) and go again.

Here is the last video i have uploaded of Saturn using a planetary camera and its the Neptune Cii and the 664 is a better camera in nearly every way so you are in good hands - https://youtu.be/EzHX4lVIe7s

[steep apex]

Real

[late spoke]

Omg 🙀🙀🙀🙀

It real

[cloud copper]

Thanks Damien, btw I love your planetary stuff

Really cool

[cloud copper]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeaVWUrH/

Is this even possible with such a small scope ?

I bet it’s not his video

Looks too detailed for a afocal video

[somber stratus]

That's literally my clip I uploaded to my IG

lmao

stolen, very cool

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4oKp15Msbe/

tw.astrophotography

Live view of Saturn last year #telescope

Likes

6510

Instagram

[livid sierra]

Was gonna say I thought it looked familiar

[somber stratus]

If not, I'd love to have this guy's 4SE

very powerful

[cloud copper]

Yea, I thought that it was your vid but I wasn’t sure

@somber stratus did you say something to that guy, he deleted the video 😂

[somber stratus]

yeah lmao

I said something along the lines of "This live view of Saturn is my content, not cool dude. As least make it believable with such a small aperture..."

[cloud copper]

You can’t get that amount of details, even in perfect seeing with the best camera out there, with a 4”

[cloud copper]

Do you think that I could fit this scope on an eq6 pro mount ?

[somber stratus]

No

[slate juniper]

bro chill xd

[high hull]

maybe once

[zealous smelt]

Does an ADC cause dimming like a Barlow?

[livid sierra]

If placed between the Barlow and camera then yes, because it will act as a spacer and increase the magnification of the Barlow thus increasing the focal ratio

[somber stratus]

Transmission is pretty high for the visible spectrum if you mean the ADC in and of itself. Poorer in the UV and progressively longer wavelength IR.

[white prawn]

Regardless of transmission: setup and configuration (by which I mean "adjusting so that it does its job and improves image quality") of ADC is a complete, total, royal pain in the rear.

[somber stratus]

I disagree. Once you know the axis with which to orient it, it's relatively easy. Harder on EQ mounted setups though as the horizon line as viewed through the scope rotates with time.

[thick heron]

Just level parallel with the ground on EQ mounts.

[somber stratus]

Only works for SCTs right?

not eq-mounted newts

[thick heron]

Sounds like a newtonian problem.

[heavy mirage]

Fork mount + ADC would be the dream

[thick heron]

I hear dobs are pretty good, but can’t confirm yet.

[cloud copper]

What scope do you have ?

[thick heron]

I’ve had a FlexTube 400P since December. I’m still waiting for a good night to use it.

[somber stratus]

Tracking isn't that great tbh

good enough for planetary obviously, but not DSOs by a long shot

[thick heron]

Do you have the aux encoders on?

I think they screw with tracking so try turning them off next time. You will lose the ability to manually aim without losing alignment but I could notice a difference in tracking.

[somber stratus]

Probably. How does one turn them off

I assume somewhere in the HC settings

[livid sierra]

Interesting. I turned them off now, curious to see how it’ll track next time

[heavy mirage]

I find that the tracking does better when the object is in the south western hemisphere/when the object is past max altitude. For the most part at least the 10", the tracking fairly well in azimuth but altitude definitely lacks precision

[livid sierra]

I know what you mean. I find it also depends on what buttons you last press when aligning. I.e. up/right or down/left

I once did alignment twice, once with up/right and once with down/left, noticed a significant difference in tracking between the two. But I don’t remember which was better.. whoops

[livid sierra]

Pressing the buttons meaning actually slewing in that direction for a little before confirming alignment

[heavy mirage]

Yes, also if you use the synscan app they allow 3 star alignment and I believe the encoders are off by default. When doing alignment, I use up and right exclusively I'm not sure it actually matters but I did read something about it in a forum

[livid sierra]

I read something about it in the manual of the Synscan

Hang on I’ll find it

[heavy mirage]

Yes, you're right actually

[livid sierra]

Got it

The part about Mechanical Backlash

But I have not found this to be accurate in practice

Like that one time I tested both ways

I think, like you said, it depends on whether the object has passed the meridian or not

If it’s rising or setting

[livid sierra]

Wobbly is not good though, what do you mean

[fading plume]

Mines the opposite. Bad in azimuth. Maybe it needs relubrication or a proper bearing installed.

[thin aspen]

My 10inch is pretty dreadful sometimes. Sometimes it just stops tracking completely and I loose the planet. It also takes a while to resume tracking after I adjust the position slightly. Like a delay between tracking and moving, probably backlash.

[heavy mirage]

Are you using the hc to control your scope?

Sometimes the hc cable disconnects. I think on my Dob the hc is dead so I just user synscan app on my laptop

You also may need to adjust your altitude limits

[thin aspen]

I use the WiFi unit which I find so much easier than the hand controller. Also with the altitude limits, would that be an issue as the max I have tracked is 50 degrees with it happening. Seems like it would be an issue if you close to zenith

[cloud copper]

Guys, how can I modify my dob for a dslr to reach focus without using a barlow ?

[steep apex]

I’ve had this problem with my Astro-cam, what I did was move the primary mirror forward

[cloud copper]

How ?

[steep apex]

The collimation screws, you turn them all in one direction to move them up or down

I would go to a star and unfocus it then see which way gets your camera focused

Might be another way but that’s how what I learned

[cloud copper]

Does it mess up the focus to eyepieces? Is there a chance that I won’t be able to use an eyepiece

[cloud copper]

Guys what’s the best ir pass filter that I can use for planetary imaging? 685, 810…

[thin aspen]

I think if your seeing is very bad 810nm is best as it’s cuts through more of the seeing. I believe it’s quite a hard decision as, correct me if I’m wrong, the longer the wavelength, the less it is effected by seeing but the resolution however decreases too.

[cloud copper]

I’m thinking that a 685 is a good option

[wispy pagoda]

Yep exactly, so the more seeing limited you are, the more infrared you can go

So it depends on your diameter and tipical seeing conditions

[cloud copper]

I have a 12” and I usually have a 2/5 or 3/5 seeing

[cloud copper]

How does this look ?

Is it good ?

[dark cargo]

aren't you using a DSLR? the stock ir cut filter on them will block everything after around 650nm, so can't really use an irpass

[cloud copper]

Here’s a live taken at 1800fl with it tracking a dob

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/xDvysVXbZbsiFob1/?mibextid=KsPBc6

[cloud copper]

No, I have a dslr for deep sky.For planetary I use a ceres-c Imx 224

[dark cargo]

Ah in that case you'd be fine, you'd have less signal in IR but since you are using a 12" dob and unlikely at maximum sampling you should have plenty of light.

[sharp ridge]

685. 850 is pretty useless unless you got a massive aperture and even then if your seeing is that bad youre not gonna get a good image anyway

[cloud copper]

Than what should I choose ?

[sharp ridge]

685nm

[cloud copper]

Oh

Good

Any good brands ?

[sharp ridge]

I use the player one model

others should be just as good

[cloud copper]

Ok

[cloud copper]

Is it better than an uv ir? And what’s the difference?

[sharp ridge]

uv ir you should get/have no matter what

685nm is for poorer seeing conditions

[livid sierra]

@cloud copper do you understand the spectrum of light? The UV/IR cut filter passes the wavelength 400nm-700nm, which are the wavelengths we can see, so it produces colour images. An IR filter, say 850nm, passes wavelengths we cannot see (IR), so it will produce a monochromatic image. UV/IR Cut and an IR pass are not the same, one is not better than the other

They are used for different purposes

A 610nm pass would pass from 610nm, so it’s R+IR, the little bit of 610-700nm we would be able to see if we were to look through the filter, but higher than 700nm we cannot. This filter could be used for unfavourable seeing, but not terrible

[sharp ridge]

tks Duif

[cloud copper]

So that’s the filter I want, the 685

[livid sierra]

Also it’s not a hard cutoff. We actually can see a little bit of 700+nm, and it varies from person to person. But yes essentially 400-700nm UV/IR Cuts are designed to make images that resemble what our eyes can see. But the deeper you go into the IR, the longer the wavelength, and the less it’s affected by atmospheric seeing.

[cloud copper]

Thanks duif, good info

[livid sierra]

It could be. If you also want some of the R signal for better resolution and more light you could go for the 610nm. The deeper you go into IR the lower the sensitivity of your camera, so for 685nm pass you will need to use longer exposures or gather more data

But looking at the response graph of your camera, 685nm would be quite fine

[cloud copper]

I have a 12” dob and an imx224.I usually have a 2/5 or 3/5 seeing.What filter would you recommend?

[cloud copper]

Sounds good

[livid sierra]

Do remember imaging with an IR filter will produce monochromatic images, so grayscale. You could do IR+RGB (using IR as luminosity and UV/IR image for colour data), but that doesn’t work for every planet

With Jupiter for instance it’ll throw off the colours a bit

[cloud copper]

Okay

[somber stratus]

685 is a safe bet

[unkempt igloo]

That looks good👌

[alpine escarp]

lucky imaging of jupiter with grs

[wet nest]

so it does float!

[high hull]

nooo lore inaccurate

[thick heron]

I prefer north up.

This seems more like it.

[whole osprey]

Proof Jupiter is buoyant.

[stark abyss]

5inch newt

[carmine void]

What camera?

[stark abyss]

Web cam

[lament turtle]

guys what is meant by data for derotation??

[thin aspen]

Could be Winjupos measurement files that can be used to derotate a planet like Jupiter.

[lament turtle]

Wait so how do they help???

[somber stratus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5BdwYpWW-s This explains it fairly well

You're essentially stacking stacks to increase the signal to noise ratio

Allows less denoising so you retain more detail.

[lament turtle]

Ah

Makes sense now Thanks guys

[white prawn]

Do you know how I can preserve the timestamps from the video so that I don't have to manually input them in WinJUPOS?

Oh. Also. Hi.

[livid sierra]

Your capturing software should have an option to put the UTC times in the filename

Which WJ can then read

[white prawn]

Sharpcap. It does. When I run the file through PIPP to extract frames, PIPP can't read it

[livid sierra]

Extract frames? PIPP can’t read it? PIPP doesn’t need to read anything

[white prawn]

Yeah. With image processing, use PIPP to convert video to individual frames, send those frames through AutoStakkert. PIPP has an option to extract the date/time. Problem is whenever I've checked the box PIPP gave me a "can't get the info" error. Even though it's right there in the log for the file.

[livid sierra]

There is no need to use that option if you’ve enabled Sharpcap to format the filename in WJ style?

Also are you converting your frames to individual image files using PIPP? If so I recommend exporting as .ser or at least .avi instead

[white prawn]

Didn't know that.

[white prawn]

That's how I've always done it. Record as ser/avi, then run that through PIPP to get the individual images in tif format.

[livid sierra]

Why exactly?

[white prawn]

Um. How else does one get things into AutoStakkert?

[livid sierra]

AutoStakkert reads ser?

There’s absolutely no need to convert your ser file to tif files so AS! can read them

[white prawn]

Record -> PIPP to get individual frames -> Send frames through AutoStakkert -> Select/stack

[livid sierra]

Maybe to remove empty frames with PIPP, but not to convert to tifs

AS! takes ser as well as avi files

[white prawn]

Hm. I'll have to try something then. AutoStakkert never worked w/ the actual recording, only images.

[livid sierra]

What would it say if you tried to stack the actual recorded file?

[white prawn]

PIPP still comes in handy if I sneeze during manual tracking though and lose the planet ...

[livid sierra]

Yeah you can use it for that, but I don’t know anyone who solely uses PIPP to convert to individual tif files in order to stack with AS!

That’s really inefficient

[white prawn]

You just found a dude.

Going to try running an avi or ser through AS!

[livid sierra]

If you use PIPP to remove empty frames you can still just export as ser again

[white prawn]

Working on an avi right now for testing purposes. Seems to have worked.

[livid sierra]

Yeah lol

[white prawn]

And here's the output.

[livid sierra]

I recommend recording in .ser though, since using ser player allows you to watch the raw data debayered, while playing an avi file shows you undebayered footage

[livid sierra]

It’s like magic huh

[white prawn]

Yep. My image completely disappeared.

[livid sierra]

Also ser player has some minimal editing features

[white prawn]

What I mean is that there should be a planet in that image. It should be:

[livid sierra]

What does the avi itself look like

And your as! settings