360 degree bass for Davie504

[noble badge]

Idea from @lapis bolt basically a bass or guitar that has a neck that goes around the entire way making it essentially round. I think it's a really interesting idea. The picture here is a very rough sketch. I think the end product would look more closly to a guitar. But this sketch shows how it would work.

[lapis bolt]

I'll make a better drawing when I get home from work today

[lapis bolt]

nice!
just got back from work, going to try and whip something up before dinner

[quartz ocean]

Couldnt you make it look more streamlined and like a guitar? Also the strings should sit further to the fretboard or its gonna sound bad

[lapis bolt]

that's what I'm doing, wasn't able to finish it before dinner though

[rough fulcrum]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/harp/images/8/8a/Med_round_harp.jpg

^ a harp, not a guitar. But interesting lol.

I think I remember seeing some traditional/cultural instrument that was sort of like a guitar but vaguely 360?

[lapis bolt]

GATLING GUITAR

[midnight lantern]

looks cool! lol love the name too

[lapis bolt]

Addons / possible features list:

• battery / remote signal inside 'drum' to avoid using slip rings for the wiring (or slip ring for power to avoid battery but still use remote signal)
• magnets or spring loaded pin so the drum doesnt move while playing it unless you want it to
• crank for rotating drum?
• blowtorch / flamethrower out the end to play into the gatling gun meme
• wheeled cart to further play into the gatling gun meme
• a bit more proportional than currently displayed in render maybe

[rough fulcrum]

if the amp provides feed power (or whatever it's called) for active pickups then you can power the transmitter from the input side instead of having a battery in the guitar

[lapis bolt]

oh yeah that's smart

[rough fulcrum]

NFC/RFID uses a similar scheme, albeit for digital signalling instead of analog

the reader transmits power, the RFID/NFC chip's attached coils picks up the power and the chip runs some code, then the chip shorts and unshorts the coil in a specific sequence, causing inductive feedback that can be picked up by the reader

[lapis bolt]

I'm familiar with the black magic of RFID's

[quartz ocean]

Yes

[rough fulcrum]

oh my bad apparently active pickups use a battery in the body of the guitar

[unkempt bramble]

Adam Savage used magnets for his Samaritan revolver, so the barrel would spin a bit more step-wise. Perhaps something that can be utilized here too?

[noble badge]

that looks sick

we should get a luthiers perspective here for sure to provide some ideas

I am thinking of playability with this design. One major concern right now is the thickness of that neck. because when you play guitar you are using the back of the guitar neck for support

but since this is 360 guitar

using the support finger (thumb) to play too might not be an issue

But you still kind of need to be able to hold around the neck to some extent

[unkempt bramble]

Time for you to hunt octopuses and mutate again. 🙂 But this design, there will be some non-rotating parts at the back, black piece, mostly hidden in the screenshot, that can be used for support, like a regular guitar?

[noble badge]

yup but, a guitar neck is usaully like 2cm deep. based on this design it would be like 15-20cm deepth to hold against this back

so it would require seriously long fingers

I guess a tapping style could be possible. but the face that the neck rotates would make this super hard. but if we add a lock function that could be quickly triggered

like you can release it and spin, but also fully fix it for ease of playing

[unkempt bramble]

Maybe some way of locking it by adding pressure with your left thumb? Pressure -> Friction lock?

https://youtu.be/inQ16HamIWk?t=3059 if you watch this video from the timestamp, and a few seconds in, you'll see something really cool with magnets.

[rough fulcrum]

you could play it like a zither/guzheng lol

the guzheng is known for extra-long strumming style, almost like a harp, but it still has a resonating cavity like an acoustic guitar

[north crow]

have a lever at one end of the neck (either end works) that, when folded down, inserts a "locking pin" into a series of divots embedded into the neck. This way, the neck will always get "locked in" at an indexed (and thus repeatable) position, but can be rotated freely when "unlocked"

[lapis bolt]

This is what I meant by the magnets/spring pin.

[lapis bolt]

To have a slotting pin you'd want a magnet setup or something similar for alignment. A cam lock could also work without needing to be aligned.
Either way, as it stands this is fairly easily doable. The big question is what wacky add-ons should it have

[rough fulcrum]

Tactical red dot sight and foregrip /s

[north crow]

skip the magnet & make ratchet-style intentions...so it indexes like a Colt Peacemaker 😂

[lapis bolt]

Side thought, it could have 6 sets of 4 strings and be hexagonal in shape rather than circular

[lapis bolt]

Ooo I like that

Also in the render above the cylinder is about 10cm in diameter just for scale reference.

[north crow]

that's huge

4", or 1.3 handbreadths

😂

[lapis bolt]

that's with 20 strings .55 inches apart

[north crow]

math isn't working in my head

ΠD = 3.14159*4

== 12.566

/ 0.55 = 22.85 strings

or was the 10cm more of a general-scale thing & I just went crazy with the wrong data? (happens...more often than I care to admit)

[lapis bolt]

There are a few things, the strings gradually slope in and the 0.55 I gave was further up on the frets. it's 4.1" diameter at the widest point where the strings bridge at the bottom. The diameter of the frets higher up on the guitar is closer to 3"//7.5cm. Also this is the flat center to center distance between the strings so it fits less than if you measure based on circumfrence

[north crow]

good points

[soft fiber]

One way to implement the locking function could be to use a servo motor to pre program different positions of the barrel. And then for example use buttons to quickly change between different position profiles. If you want or need more torque, you can use a gear system to the detriment of speed, or vice versa.

[glad mirage]

it would be either too slow or too noisy

[south mist]

could have 10 strings ig. looks good

in theory you could make bended pickups

[north crow]

did some research and...custom pickups are totally an option 😉

[noble badge]

ok In my head

i think the next issue before anything else is figuring out what the different sides or whatever should do

because if it rotates to different bland areas of the guitar, what's the fun? idk I'm back in googling time now

another thing I've though about with the pentagon shape is this. most of the positions, the fretboard won't actually lay flat, vs a cylinder shape whastever position it's in is always the correct one

[noble badge]

ooh wrong chat

[frosty crane]

This reminds me of the Da Vinci piano:
https://youtu.be/K5slE11AHOM&t=3m36s

[south mist]

pentagon/hexagon/octagon shape would be the best cuz possibly strings could loose the adhesion if it's fully round

the strings can be something like those i think
https://youtu.be/m3DMIrhXdlE

[quartz ocean]

How are you going to tune it??

Is it going to be like a floyd rose/headless kinda setup how it gets locked and you adjust it via a tiny knob or what cause the model doesnt show any kind of tuner

[north crow]

haven't modelled that far yet...but might end up using a removable+key worm-drive tuner setup...give a sleek look & fewer hard parts sticking out & spinning to break a fingertip 😉

[quartz ocean]

That wouldnt be a bad idea, i was thinking almost like the gibson winding tuners from the 70s but without the tuning peg just the flip out bit connected to the tuner shaft

Like these

[jade relic]

A 360 degree bass kinda reminds of this selfplaying violin shown by Wintergatan in this video. https://youtu.be/xs0mP2cOmJs?t=324

[quartz ocean]

Those multi instrument automatic player things are sick imo that’s probably the first one i ever heard about

https://youtu.be/OihbIgXBsMU this dude keeps popping up in my youtube recommendations now

That ones a fotoplayer but im pretty sure youd call what you showed something different

[bleak grotto]

For the sake of machining, I really hope you can make a cylindrical design work (and the the diameter of said cylinder is no more than 70mm across)

[bleak grotto]

Also, I'm kind of at a loss with how you've planned on implementing pickups. Are you gonna have pickups that go around? Would that not be very difficult with the wiring?

I guess if I was designing it, I'd have the strings resonate in an acoustic box with a pickup inside, like in an electric acoustic guitar

[noble badge]

I think the discussion of this is 1000 messages long but tl:dr is we are not entirely sure yet. But i think the best idea related to having actual pickup on the neck is wirelessly sending the signal to the body

[noble badge]

i think that's a good idea. i think it's the line of people who suggested piezo pickups

[north crow]

problem with acoustic & piezo is that all the extraneous noises from moving the barrel &what-not get picked up too...most likely louder than the strings

[lapis bolt]

I don't necessarily think that'd be a bad thing. I'd also be pretty surprised if that was louder than the strings

[static void]

some bearings are louder than others so i guess it would depend on the quality he ends up going with

idk if he's even using bearings to make it spin i just joined this server lol

[north crow]

plan on using quiet/smooth bearings....but stopping the cylinder (esp. with spring-detents) would be quite loud, I expect

[static void]

what if he added like a brake pedal lmao
like how bicycle brake pads squeeze onto the tire
im not sure if that would be any quieter

[north crow]

yeah, those generally get pretty noisy on bicycles & car breaks like to squeal

[jade relic]

If it ever gets made you should definitely try to bow it.

Either with a traditional bow or an e-bow.

[lapis bolt]

At this speed it should be pretty quiet

[jade relic]

Even if the speed is slow, shouldn't the amp make it higher?

[native fable]

in Indonesia there is a 360-degree traditional musical instrument called "sasando"

[drifting osprey]

Because it’s 360 degrees, could this bass actually be bowed like a double bass too?

[drifting osprey]

how'd I not read this 😭

but like, it could probably be held and bowed similarly to a viola da gamba..

[random solstice]

I'm not sure if this helps in any way, but seeing that shot of the gatling/360 guitar at the end of Mattias's most recent video brought back flashbacks of my granpas old valiha

Its like a malagasy traditional instrument made out of bamboo, and they just look similar at a glance

[sand fog]

when i saw this, my immediate thought was if this thing was tuned to an open tuning it would be much more playable because any strings left vibrating as they rotate away could still be in key

it might be a good idea to have foam mutes on the lowest strings so it isn't overly muddy

[deft crane]

Yes

[olive furnace]

use this instead of bluetooth: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slip_ring

[north crow]

tried it, sucked

audio sliprings cost $$$, contain mercury, are bulky & didn't fit/work.
All other sliprings sound ABSOLUTELY AWFUL!!!

[opal hatch]

Just finished watching the video and loved it.

If you want to try this build again I have some ideas.
Keep in mind I'm not an engineer, electrician or a guitarist.
So these are just thoughts. I can't do much of anything in the way of help.
Best I can do is research and point you to the things I've found.

Anyway.
Here goes.

Switch to a Bluetooth module. You'll reduce possible lag, increase distance and trim down the design.

Use a pedal where you can adjust the power. Maybe just crack it open the current and add a potentiometer. You'll get better control over the speed as you move it up and down.

Maybe add a switch so only the front facing pickups are activated? Not sure if this would always be desired. Probably not since the sound of the last activated would be cut off once the set position is reached. But if you just want to go from one "guitar" to another it may be practical.

And a board of foot switches that spin the neck to the desired position. So like switch one will spin it to guitar. Two to bass. Three to fretless bass.
I assume this would have to involve the ability to recognize the neck position and then activate the break.

That's about it.

As stated before. I'm not actually any of the things that it takes to pull any of this off.
Just conceptual ideas from things I've read about in the past.

[rough fulcrum]

all of these are already accounted for

except bluetooth

where would the bluetooth module go? do you mean to replace the audio transmission?

[north crow]

yes, that's what they meant...using bluetooth instead of pro audio wireless, lol

[north crow]

As for the "use a pedal where you can adjust the power" part, we are using a pedal with a potntiometer already...and a computer controller board that reads the potentiometer position & translates that value into what speed Mattias wants the guitar neck to spin; then spins at that speed.

[torn leaf]

partial rotation button since you can't really stop it like half or to each string