Yunjin Thread

[tardy thunder]

But if you need shield

[balmy remnant]

probably not as badly because N2RR is early into Yoi's string

[tardy thunder]

I’m confused as to why that makes shield less necessary

[balmy remnant]

because it's not as crucial to be uninterrupted as N4RR

[versed owl]

thoma or c4 yanfei are probably better

[tardy thunder]

Huh? Why?

They don’t do damage

[versed owl]

pyro res, battery

at least for the fireworks team

i itemized 55% ER for that yoimiya

[tardy thunder]

Those are batteries?

[versed owl]

better than zhongli

for yoi

[balmy remnant]

i got C6 thoma pulling for C1 on my HT and i malded, because right before that i got homa in 30 pulls

[tardy thunder]

A c6 Thoma could be good

[tardy thunder]

But if you get interrupted that still gives you less frames to do your combo

[balmy remnant]

true true, that's why i said not as badly instead of unnecessary

[tardy thunder]

If only Thoma did good damage

[balmy remnant]

what if Yae attacks fast and hard

[tardy thunder]

She will

[balmy remnant]

she better, i'm skipping 2.3 and 2.4 for her

[compact girder]

Is a 7x attack in a string possible

[balmy remnant]

wdym

[compact girder]

Nvm

[balmy remnant]

bruh

[lofty karma]

@tardy thunder if it isn't done already this weekend, one of the things I want to do is get adjusted MVs for all of yois chains with yunjin added so we can be absolutely sure we're using the right ones

[tardy thunder]

[lofty karma]

Also looking forward to release when we need to redo frame counts
this time for jean c2 over kazuha

since she doesn't need ER at all for this, she can run freedom sworn

and maybe the extra atk speed + freedom sworn will be a bigger boost than what kazuha adds

[balmy remnant]

we as in me lmao

but you send the yoi footage, i have no yoi

[lofty karma]

someone's gotta do footage
and hopefully I'll have learned aim cancels by then

no ayaka for that comp tho

[balmy remnant]

pls leakers record yunjin NAs during her ult and actually click fast

[lofty karma]

lmao

[balmy remnant]

we only have her showcase NAs and 3 hits of her NA (aka N1, N2, and N3 hit 1) during ult with hitlag and it's insane how much quicker those are than just taking off 12% of the showcase frames

c'mon leakers smh, there was literally like a whole minute video of shenhe hitting a tree and i counted the frames for that but,,, Shenhe using AAs

[sour root]

Im ngl, i was super excited for shenhe, but im finding myself a little disappointed in her

Yunjin has more captured my attention, but im probably gonna need yae crumbs before any trigger is pulled

[ember stag]

Could she work with Raiden or is that a stupid idea

[tardy thunder]

No

Raiden is burst dmg

[ember stag]

dammit

[tardy thunder]

I’m sadge too

[ember stag]

does she work with Hu Tao/Childe/Ayaka?

[tardy thunder]

Maybe

[ember stag]

hmm

[tardy thunder]

I haven’t calced those yet

[ember stag]

interesting

I'm curious if she might be a Childe buff

welp so far Yunjin's state seems to be better than Shenhe's at least

not quite sure till 2.4 comes out tho

Also what mats does Yunjin use?

[lofty karma]

glaze lilies

[ember stag]

Wolflord? PMA? Geo cube?

[tardy thunder]

Wolfe

[ember stag]

Fuck well at least I know how to style on his yee yee ass now

[lofty karma]

with hutao

[ember stag]

ironically Hu Tao was probably the best character to use against him

[lofty karma]

hutao is boss killer

esp since he has no invuln phases like cubes

[ember stag]

Hu Tao-Xingqiu-Diona-useless Ningguang that I only use for the shield break

I also fought it with Ayaka team but that one took a bit

[lofty karma]

one thing with yoi comp
I'm assuming the best strict F2p weapon is slingshot right?

[tardy thunder]

Probably

Or Hamayumi?

[lofty karma]

maybe

[tardy thunder]

Idk

[lofty karma]

but would be bolide instead of SR

guess that's another thing for the weekend

huh
her ult doesn't add much to the comp
so all hamayumi does is be a slightly worse rust that makes you run a worse set

and I guess in strict f2p we'd need to move off albedo

EM fischl?

[tame tree]

I cant see that tbh
Childe NAs are a small portion of his dmg

[ember stag]

fair

[tame tree]

i'm using Yoi

but its kinda annoying

[ember stag]

mood

[tame tree]

she literally cant aim upwards for some reason

so I just stand on Albedo flower to shoot him

[ember stag]

yeah I notice auto-aiming is weird sometimes

[tardy thunder]

Is fischl even the one reacting if we use her?

[ember stag]

like why can Ayaka fucking lock-on to anything within her reach as long as she activates the CA before they move away

[tardy thunder]

She applies metric tons of electro

[ember stag]

but not hit the birds from the Oceanid

[tardy thunder]

Because they are flying

[lofty karma]

at c2?

my assumptions for strict F2P is 0 relevant 4star weapons unless they get given to you for free in the current patch or the previous one
and c2 of every 4 star

[tardy thunder]

[lofty karma]

basically the "you almost certainly have the chars for this comp" no matter what

and extreme budget would be
only f2p options + event in last 2 patches and only 4 stars from those patches all at c0
and only 10 liquid subs

no need to ever really consider that unless making content for beginners tho

[sour root]

What types of teams have you guys been thinking of

The deeper i dig, the more i realize how weird this character is?

Im starting to wonder if coop abyss is on the horizon somewhere

The 30 stack/char but only normal dmg is irking me

[mental ingot]

You don't have to burn all 30 stacks with every team member for Yunjin to be good.

She's going to contribute plenty just allowing your main carry to burn 15-20 stacks.

[sour root]

Im saying though. Why make it per char if normal dmg can only occur on field

[mental ingot]

More than Shenhe.

[sour root]

Though iirc one of childe riptides is normal dmg right?

[livid flume]

Se7en, we're you in the moonmoon disc a while ago?

[sour root]

Nope

[mental ingot]

Depends on which Riptide.

[livid flume]

Okay then nm, sorry

[sour root]

Its fine that my second mistaken identity today

I guess im not original enough

[mental ingot]

The Riptide triggered by charged bow attack (Riptide Flash) is considered NA damage. As well as the Riptide Burst when an opponent affected by Riptide dies.

[sour root]

I guess i should change my name to yunjins toenail clipper or something

[mental ingot]

The riptide slash triggered by E attacks are E-damage, and the Riptide Blast triggered by Q is Q damage.

Childe's C4 can trigger Yunjin Q stacks off-field.

[sour root]

Copium overdose i think

Also childe is one of the best uses of kazuha and bennett. Putting them out for yunjin is probably doa

I keep coming back to yoimiya

However, yoimiya most meta teams are subdps driven

[mental ingot]

Bennett.

[sour root]

If only she had geo dmg conversion 🤔

[mental ingot]

+ Yunjin freeze team.

C4 Childe.

[sour root]

🤔

[tardy thunder]

Yoimiya, Ningguang, Xianling, Physchl, Pikeli to name a few

[tardy thunder]

Use all 4

Jk

I could see her being good in freeze childe maybe

[lofty karma]

yunjin yoi kazuha albedo
yunjin ayaka kazuha xq
yunjin pikeli + honestly whatever

[tardy thunder]

What’s going on in that first team

[lofty karma]

me getting autocorrect

idk how it did that even

[tardy thunder]

Lol

[sour root]

I think im gonna start calcing with yoimiya vapeload variants

[lofty karma]

not worth
hyper yoi is better

[tardy thunder]

Problem is if you’re using her with fischl or beidou why not just use bennet instead of Yunjin

[lofty karma]

yoi was already terrible at using XQ

[tardy thunder]

Since he can buff everyone

[lofty karma]

and her only other option pre yunjin was OL

[tardy thunder]

So just build hyper PP Yoi for Yunjin build

[lofty karma]

but that made her miss a bunch of shots

[tardy thunder]

[tardy thunder]

That’s what I’ve been wondering

[sour root]

Shes not the best user of xinqiu but terrible is strong

[tardy thunder]

In the comparisons of Yoi Yunjin to OL

I always wondered how she doesn’t miss her shots

[sour root]

Also u need some sort of interruption resistance or u just lying to yourself

[tardy thunder]

With that much OL

[sour root]

For yoimiya

[lofty karma]

yunjin does more for yoi than most XQ does for any non xianling unit

[tardy thunder]

Yunjin is more than half of Yois damage on my sheet

[sour root]

Im just saying. U need the interruption resist right

[tardy thunder]

Ya

[mental ingot]

C6 Yoi would be so godlike.

[lofty karma]

if you care about not getting interrupted yes

and if you're running XQ you do

[tardy thunder]

Remember he also extends the rotation by 3s tho

[lofty karma]

because the difference between vaping your N5 and not is night and day

[sour root]

You should care about getting interrupted since it tanks her damage

[lofty karma]

and if you ever get interrupted or even dodge, you mess up your ICDs

[sour root]

And is underrepresented in spreadsheet impact

[lofty karma]

and you won't vape N5

[tardy thunder]

Speaking of, I. A dream world where we didn’t need to worry about interruption resistance at all in Yoi Yunjin, would we replace albedo?

And with who

[lofty karma]

however yunjin yoi has much shorter combos

and doesn't tank by 30+% because she had to dodge one time in the rotation

[tardy thunder]

[lofty karma]

honestly albedo is the worst unit in the comp

we just don't have anything less bad

[tardy thunder]

He’s not even bad there

He’s doing 175k damage and buffing Kazuha

And making shields

And with Kazuha he should get some AoE

[sour root]

Yoimiya is not dodging once per rotation with no shield or interrupt resist

[lofty karma]

wait... what if freedom sworn on albedo
at what refine does that beat spindle in team damage?

[lofty karma]

if you dodge even once, vape yoi loses 30+% DPS because she can no longer vape N5

yunjin yoi is not the same

[tardy thunder]

Want me to calc it

[lofty karma]

[tardy thunder]

Wait if you had freedom

Why would it be on albedo

And not Kazuha

[sour root]

But we get 4 character slots though…

[tardy thunder]

[mental ingot]

[lofty karma]

because kazuha needs too much ER

maybe with c1 kaz

[sour root]

Im not saying xq or yunjin and imsaying xq and yunjin

[tardy thunder]

ER sands and subs

[lofty karma]

even beyond that

he needs like 230% er

if no fav/sac

and no c1

[tardy thunder]

[lofty karma]

this is a very low energy comp

[sour root]

Yunji particle gen is 2 and 3 right?

[lofty karma]

ye

[tardy thunder]

Ya

We will never get a geo character with good particle gen

[sour root]

Thats doesnt feel like much

[lofty karma]

wait.... if this comp is such low energy

what about EM raiden over albedo?

[tardy thunder]

Stop

Get some help

[lofty karma]

prob put favlance on her over dragon's bane

or EL if you have it

but at that point just play hyper raiden

[sour root]

EM dead on geo right?

Like i haven’t actually thought much about crystalize

[lofty karma]

crystallize can go a long way with L90 geo units

[tardy thunder]

Wait…

If we are using albedo as our shielder

That EM

Would help

[mental ingot]

Just don't get hit.

[tardy thunder]

Wait what if we use Pines Xinyan as our shielder

[sour root]

If crystalize from yunjin is enough for yoimiya to survive her string 🤔

[lofty karma]

nah with albedo as shielder he just needs to be level 90 and crystal spam will get us there

[tardy thunder]

Ok but

Pines Xinyan

[lofty karma]

what

[tardy thunder]

Song of broken pines

Buffs all party members attack speed

[sour root]

Do u guys have a metric for good enough shields?

[mental ingot]

Just use Yunjin shield.

[lofty karma]

yes
those are words that exist
but they make no sense in context of each other

[tardy thunder]

Shield

[tardy thunder]

Why

[sour root]

As in for floor 12 whats minimum realistic needsfor a shield

[lofty karma]

if you can gen 5k effective hp/sec of shields, you can facetank most content

[sour root]

Interesting 🤔

[tardy thunder]

Also have geo resonance and albedo em making the shields stronk

[mental ingot]

Shield requirement on 12 is 0. Just don't die.

[lofty karma]

[sour root]

Remind me if shield breaks during a strong attack u still dont stagger right?

[tardy thunder]

You still stagger

[sour root]

Ok time to get into it then. Brb

[lofty karma]

huh
reading yoi again
I don't know if yunjin Q applies before or after yoi E

but yoi E is multiplicative with dmg% bonuses since its in a separate step

(also the reason I don't know which calcs first)

[tardy thunder]

There isn’t any reason it wouldn’t

Wait wym

[lofty karma]

this is mhy we're talking about

[tardy thunder]

I’m confused now

It’s multiplication

Order does not matter

[lofty karma]

yoi E multiplier from blazing arrows applies in a separate step

but I don't know which one it is

[tardy thunder]

The step doesn’t matter

It’s multiplication

[lofty karma]

if it multiplies MV%

then it could apply before yunjin

[tardy thunder]

I asked kqm

They said it’s multiplicative

It doesn’t change her MVs it’s a multiplier in the damage formula

[lofty karma]

yes
it's multiplicative because it's in a separate step

[tardy thunder]

Uhm I think you are confusing yourself

[lofty karma]

[tardy thunder]

In my calcs I do atk x MV x Dmg bonus x crit x Yoi E multiplier x defense x resistance

[mental ingot]

You're making the assumption the multiplier applies after Yunjin Q is added.

But there's no precedence of additives being applied after multipliers so that's a safe assumption.

But it is miHoYo.

[tardy thunder]

Yes there is?

Cinnabar spindle

[mental ingot]

That's applied after crit and geo multipliers?

Shit weapon.

[tardy thunder]

It gets to use your crit and dmg bonus multipliers

[tardy thunder]

…?

[mental ingot]

That's what I mean, it's additive before multipliers.

[tardy thunder]

Yes

[mental ingot]

Reread my statement.

[tardy thunder]

That’s my point

Oh I see what you said now

[mental ingot]

[balmy remnant]

why's yoi's E multiplier after crit?

[mental ingot]

It doesn't matter, it's all multipliers.

[tardy thunder]

…does it matter?

[balmy remnant]

fair

[tardy thunder]

It’s multiplication

I could flip the order around 20 different times and get the same result as long as I keep attack at the beginning

[balmy remnant]

basic math rules in TC? You're asking too much

[tardy thunder]

Wait no

Even if I move attack

Same result

Every time

[balmy remnant]

[mental ingot]

Something something aunt sally.

[lofty karma]

we don't have any abilities like yois E on sword users
so while yunjin probably applies first
this absolutely needs to be tested

as we don't have any actual precedent

[tardy thunder]

Cinnabar spindle adds a flat amount of damage to your E damage and it applies before multipliers

If Yunjin were to work the way you fear then she wouldn’t get damage bonus multiplier either

Or crit

[lofty karma]

the thing is we don't know whether yoi E multiplies the MV value or is just a random extra step in damage calc in dmg bonus just for her E

if it multiplies the MV value it would apply before yunjin's bonus gets added

I hope it's random extra damage step for just her E/similar effects they add in the future

but again, we have no precedent and no way to test which one it is until yunjin comes out

gonna check to see if any claymore chars have a similarly worded ability
if so we can test with redhorn

Also did ER calcs for yoi SR

Don't think we can include ult in every rotation

And even for every other rotation, not looking good

[tardy thunder]

I didn’t use her ult at all

In my calcs

[tardy thunder]

Can you do it for bolide? See how much she would need to ult every other rotation?

[lofty karma]

her ult does decent damage
(and buffs kazuha attack for bigger Es/Q damage)

doing that rn

[tardy thunder]

Yeah her ult was doing like 93k when I calced it

[tardy thunder]

Bolide letting her use it even every other rotation could potentially be a dps gain

[lofty karma]

this is every other rotation

[tardy thunder]

But I doubt it’s anything more than a net even

Oh screw that I want 0 ER

[lofty karma]

this is every rotation

[tardy thunder]

How is it the same

For every rotation

[tardy thunder]

As every other

[lofty karma]

because clipboard fail

[tardy thunder]

Just use SR and don’t Q

[lofty karma]

well... thinking in terms of pulse

and later c4 calcs

C4 yoi almost certainly wants fav on albedo too

or possibly replace albedo with bennett and run lavawalker

[tardy thunder]

I don’t even know what her c4 does

[lofty karma]

c4 calc with favsword on bennett and kaz (only 1 hold E on kaz because 15s rotation)

[tardy thunder]

That’s still a lot

[lofty karma]

every ult tick reduces CD of her E by 1.2s

[tardy thunder]

I don’t think that will matter

Or would it

Idk

[lofty karma]

3s less rotation time

[tardy thunder]

True

[lofty karma]

and yoi can use ER sands right?

not like atk% does much in bennett ult

wait... does bennett beat out albedo?

ik he doesn't beat kaz here

one other thing to note

childe c4 procs are considered normal atk damage

and should proc yunjin

this is probably useless info

but funny nonetheless

[sour root]

guys i need a little help calculating transformative in a vapeload team

how do i know whose supposed to proc what when

or even better yet are their already existing infos for yoimiya vapeload transformatives

[tardy thunder]

Dunno

For reaction counts you gotta manually count

[versed owl]

we should have data from when people were mathing overvape

[ocean nacelle]

what's the best team for dps yunjin ?? and same question but with support yunjin ^^

[balmy remnant]

DPS yunjin , and the other question doesn't make much sense because when have you ever heard about building a team around a support?

[ocean nacelle]

oh yeah

i mean i'm just asking who are the dps that are best for her

kokomi and yoimiya??

[balmy remnant]

not kokomi

[ocean nacelle]

ohh why

her dps comes from na

during burst

and won't c6 yunjin help kokomi because of increased attack speed

[balmy remnant]

but she can't crit, so Yunjin's added dmg on NAs isn't boosted my much other than dmg bonuses and res shred

[ocean nacelle]

i see, but the atk speed is still great, right?

kokomi's normal attacks aren't slow but they aren't necessarily fast

[balmy remnant]

N2w is extremely fast

[balmy remnant]

no? considering that 1) you need yunjin C6, and 2) if Yunjin at C0 isn't going to be fully utilized by kokomi, how is 12% atk spd going to reasonably shift that in a way that provides a lot

[ocean nacelle]

well, i am planning to do everything just to get c6 lol

and i really just love yunjin

[balmy remnant]

that doesn't answer question 2 which is the most important of the 2

[tardy thunder]

[compact girder]

Do pikejin

[balmy remnant]

complete yunjin frames

[ocean nacelle]

pikejin ??

crescent pike.. ?? HAHSHEHE sorry

[tardy thunder]

Yunjin might be a good Yunjin driver

Multi hit on n3 and n4 for both

[compact girder]

First character to drive herself

[balmy remnant]

i mean, with what we have with hitlag she inputted N3 in 33 frames

[tardy thunder]

Translate that to seconds plz

[balmy remnant]

0.55 seconds

[tardy thunder]

[tardy thunder]

How does that compare to say Zhongli and Xianling auto frames ?

That’s 4 hits in less than a second

Shit maybe pikejin is what we need to be focusing on

[balmy remnant]

well, by inputted i mean she started doing N3 in 33 frames, because she only got to the first hit before she was interrupted

[tardy thunder]

Or maybe Mihoyo wants us to play “dual carry” where in that one 10s window we dump out a ton of stacks on two characters

Dump out 30 on Yunjin herself real fast the on day a N2RR fischl

[balmy remnant]

a little faster than zhongli w/ C2 jean and hitlag to get to N3, and idk xiangling frames

[tardy thunder]

Kekwait what if Mihoyo intended her as carry

Wait if those n3 frames you got are correct wouldnt like 15+ N3 possible

[balmy remnant]

well, if we compare N1, N2, and N3 hit 1 between the two videos, then we see that N1 in the invoker during ult is 34.7% faster, N2 is 14.2% faster, and the first hit of N3 is 33% faster, we can average that out that the invoker video's frames are roughly 27.3% faster than the showcase frames which we can use to assume that a full N3 in the invoker video would have taken 18 frames, and using the average dash being 24 frames, we can come up with N3D for yunjin taking 75 frames, which means she should be able to do 8N3D's during her ult exactly, or 32 hits

[compact girder]

Yun jin is the best yun jin carry

[tardy thunder]

Ah so basically same as Xianling and Zhongli

[compact girder]

All we need is geo infusion or convert her Na values to def scaling

[tardy thunder]

Yes

That should’ve been her c6

A geo infuse field that adds defense scaling to your NAs

[compact girder]

Boom, yun jin carry meta

[tardy thunder]

Honestly if she can driver herself just as well as Pikeli, I don’t see any reason to do Pikeli Yunjin instead of PikeJin

PikeJin save you a team slot

Or go back to cryojin

And use WT

Yunjin Kazuha chong Xinqiu

Oh yeah Xinqiu

I need to tc Yunjin Xinqiu

[compact girder]

Xq onfield?

[gilded pine]

pikejin need to focus on crits aswell, but as support she can focus on def and er.

[wheat valley]

DEFour
Team: Yunjin Albedo Gorou Xinyan
Core idea: Gorou functions as the main buffer of this team, boosting the team's DEF with E/Q, Xinyan provides Pyro for Crystallize to occur, and can focus on damage while maintaining good shield uptime due to the inherent tankiness of the team. Albedo utilizes the DEF boost and gives off-field damage. Yunjin functions as an on-field driver and also scales off of Gorou. Gorou can also function as a healer with C4 to deal with corrosion. Xinyan shreds Physical RES down to 0 and gives Phys Dmg Bonus.

Yunjin can also focus on Crit/DMG Bonus due to getting free DEF from Gorou.

[lofty karma]

Or
Or

You could have albedo or gorou as the onfield

Pjc albedo in particular would be great

[wheat valley]

Albedo has horrible driving frames.

[lofty karma]

Fair

[wheat valley]

He has the usual N4+slow N5 combo with no multihits or significantly fast hits.

[vestal cipher]

at that point youd probably be better off using noelle as driver instead of albedo and use a elemental subdps instead of xinyan

[wheat valley]

Noelle is slow asf at driving

Especially against ST.

[vivid obsidian]

You use CA to drive (when applicable)

But yes, pretty slow for NA, but high AoE mod in terms of Yunjin

[modern blaze]

but yunjin only works on NAs
noelle's synergy with yunjin comes from her aoe
she attacks slow but can hit multiple enemies per NA

[bronze kayak]

Hi

Does yunjin have split scaling

[compact girder]

Not really

Most of her use is in Def

Though her Q hit and NAs scale off atk

[jovial citrus]

She has if she is her own driver tho

[compact girder]

Run gorou with her

[jovial citrus]

What about both? Get her a driver AND a gorou

[compact girder]

She is the driver

Her NAs look faster in reality so im waiting for the real speed to come up

[jovial citrus]

If she wants to be her own driver she will lose 2 def% mainstats,but I don't know how much it really affects her with gorou

[compact girder]

Noir doing calcs soon i presume ig

[jovial citrus]

I'm not a math guy so I guess I'll just wait

[tardy thunder]

0 chance they get more stacks than Yunjin

[tardy thunder]

Yes

[lofty karma]

Difference is
Yunjin on field means she needs a dmg% cup
And a crit hat

Which kinda dumpsters her Q

[compact girder]

We are using her onfield

[lofty karma]

Her Q still does a lot of damage

So a compound bow gorou rolling a ton of ER subs + ER sands damage wise probably does about as much personal damage from autos

[tardy thunder]

uhm

how does that make any sense?

a gorou running a ton of ER is both getting low stacks and has low damage bonus/crit multipliers for it

[lofty karma]

Aim cancels is still a lot of stacks

[tardy thunder]

multi hits

damage bonus crits

[lofty karma]

Not the full 30
But it dumpsters yunjins Q a lot less than running a crit hat and phys cup on yunjin

[tardy thunder]

i dont believe you

ill calc it and see what i get

4 husk or 2 bsc 2 pf for this?

[compact girder]

For whom

Gorou?

[tardy thunder]

Yunjin

As driver

[compact girder]

Ah

Go 2pf 2bsc

[tardy thunder]

tbh since we already have gorou for crystals is there really much reason to use xinyan instead of bennet?

her attack here is looking really sad

ill see what the math looks like first ig

[vestal cipher]

this seems quite alright in current abyss, where you face 2-3 targets on the hardest sections

[lofty karma]

Another reason for gorou on field
C6 Bennett won't ruin the team

[vestal cipher]

not this one, but he'll be ruining your other team

[tardy thunder]

actually its funny you say that; i was thinking c6 bennet could enhance it

Yunjin Bennet(c6) Rosaria Gorou

now yunjin is enabling a melt rosaria at the same time

never doubt c6 bennet

would be pyro yunjin with WT probably

[lofty karma]

Ok but now

Why not VV over gorou?

[tardy thunder]

i...you are correct

Yunjin Bennet c6 Kazuha Rosaria

[vestal cipher]

you could say that for any character in that team, no?

[tardy thunder]

i guess only concern would be if you need more shielding than just the 2 crystals Yunjin makes

[tardy thunder]

well, a lot more than 2 in aoe

[modern blaze]

noelle's dps is kinda lacking when you look at it in a vacuum
but when you start considering she reliably hits 2-3 targets per NA, sometimes maybe more, she becomes a lot better

[tardy thunder]

actually you could probably E off cooldown with her on field

so should get plenty of crystals

might need bolide for them to be strong enough idk

kekwait thats rainbow

[lofty karma]

Except fighting more than 3 enemies at a time in f12 is unrealistic

[tardy thunder]

so you have protective canopy for extra resistance too

[lofty karma]

Kekw

[tardy thunder]

makign the shields stronger

alternatively we could use xinqiu instead of rosaria and have yunjin vape 10 of her hits

rosaria prob better tho?

idk

[modern blaze]

3 enemies is already enough to make noelle worth it imo

[tardy thunder]

but xinqiu would also make your crystals stronk

[jovial citrus]

Wait, yunjin selfdriver without gorou?

[tardy thunder]

its an idea that exists

[jovial citrus]

This this is a good reverse melt still so no way it can be bad

It kinda looks better than kaeya rosaria but not sure yet

[wheat valley]

DEF boost from Gorou

[tardy thunder]

@lofty karma @compact girder https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1t1Fg8-KdHPjndF19yLhYEfs3KIPXN1pekN_UAKQ-Zzo/edit?usp=sharing

got 259k dpr for the def squad setup

[wheat valley]

How long is the rotation

[lofty karma]

Did you try on field gorou?

[tardy thunder]

gib frames

cant do it without knowing how many hits he would get

while i wait for that should i try this same setup with HooD instead of 2 bsc 2 pf?

or Tassle instead of pike?

[wheat valley]

Yeah.

[tardy thunder]

Pike did 28k here

Tassle might be better

[wheat valley]

Tassel also gives Crit Rate

[tardy thunder]

i unno what to change first

[wheat valley]

This is the kind of stuff you usually throw into a solver

[tardy thunder]

dont have

[wheat valley]

@ Sir_pick_the_prick#2209

[tardy thunder]

ill just calc the pyro team while i wait

[wheat valley]

Wait should we ping him

I think we should

@visual quest thoughts?

[jovial citrus]

I think noelle yunjin gorou geo mc/albedo would be a good team

[tardy thunder]

i agree

[jovial citrus]

Maybe an upgrade from the noelle albedo beidou fischl, MAYBE

[wheat valley]

No crystallize though

That's the general problem

[jovial citrus]

Is the crystallize that big of a deal?

[wheat valley]

People dump on Crystallize but it's an important and necessary thing for these teams.

Yes.

[tardy thunder]

why?

noelle has a shield

[wheat valley]

Geo Resonance, limited shield uptime, certain mechanics needing Crystallize, etc.

[tardy thunder]

you could use bennet as the last slot if its important to have crystalize

or fischl

[jovial citrus]

So I guess we will have to come up with a triple geo

[tardy thunder]

noelle yunjin gorou bennet/fischl

[jovial citrus]

That would be fav noelle then

Still sounds good tho

[tardy thunder]

is the energy that bad even with fav Gorou?

[jovial citrus]

Not sure but I would imagine so

Both yunjin and gorou have energy issues and they have a noelle

[tardy thunder]

gorou

[wheat valley]

[compact girder]

Wait noir how long was the 270k dpr yun jin

[wheat valley]

Omfg

[tardy thunder]

I assumed 20

Cuz Gorou

[wheat valley]

.

[jovial citrus]

Dump that team out

[wheat valley]

Gorou can run with E and Q alternating

Like Fischl

[tardy thunder]

True

[jovial citrus]

Never talk about it again

If he doesn't give his particles to neolle her er requirement will not be achievable trough substats anymore

Maybe fischl instead of bennett would be better

[tardy thunder]

With Gorou using Q every other rotation he only need 162 ER

[wheat valley]

That's enough with only Favonius

[jovial citrus]

Oh, team is viable again I guess

[compact girder]

Oh similar to the pikejin calcs on yjmains then

[wheat valley]

20s rotations are stupid

It's like going with 25s rotations for Fischl because of E CD.

[tardy thunder]

@compact girder for the White Tassle Yunjin with c6 bennet i got 334,797 dpr

we might be able to work this one out

thats pretty good if rosaria can do a lot of damage off field to add up the team damage

and its a 3 star weapon

[wheat valley]

You say that like she can use 5 star weapons

[tardy thunder]

we are talking about an on field yunjin

Homa would be a whopping 66 cdmg

[wheat valley]

No DMG Bonus though.

[tardy thunder]

while giving her a lot of atk so her autos before counting Q would do much better dmg

[tardy thunder]

no dmg bonus but higher CV and attack

[wheat valley]

You're using Bennett

[tardy thunder]

i calced this one with lavawalker btw

[wheat valley]

[tardy thunder]

and still only have 2147 attack

i might try and see if Husk would be more dmg

[wheat valley]

Man imagine if we had Cinnabar spear @tardy thunder

[tardy thunder]

id do things i cant say as an intern

[compact girder]

Wait whay

Budget hutao real

Too bad i dont have c6 bouken

[lofty karma]

That's like 20k dps tops

And all single target too

Gonna take 6 minutes just to clear 12-2-2

[tardy thunder]

thats just herself.

thats not counting rosaria or kazuha

rosaria is melting there

rosaria and kazuha are both aoe

[lofty karma]

That's... More acceptable ... But given the only damaging unit left is albedo

[tardy thunder]

?

wrong team

[lofty karma]

Ah

[tardy thunder]

this is Yunjin Bennetc6 Kazuha Rosaria

the other one of yunjin albedo gorou xinyan was trash tho you are correct

but this one might be viable

[modern blaze]

yunjin hold E should proc geo resonance shred (beidou hold E does) and then noelle has her own shield to keep it up while she's on field
mono geo doesn't need crystallize

[tardy thunder]

also Husk is doing slightly better than LW for the pyro build

should i see how def goblet compares to pyro

[compact girder]

I wonder how 4husk wt yun jin with phys build does

[tardy thunder]

gonna need a better team for the phys build

[balmy remnant]

how’d you deal with the stacks?

[tardy thunder]

replace xinyan with bennet?

[tardy thunder]

Yunjin Q stacks?

i assumed 8N3D

[balmy remnant]

husk stacks, because if she gets on field with 4, a little over halfway through her unga bunga she loses one right?

[modern blaze]

i think he means the husk stacks
you're not doing on field geo damage

[tardy thunder]

yeah but her E has a 7s cooldown

so its very marginal drop

also wont matter if her Q snapshots

which we dunno if it does or not

[balmy remnant]

wait so your rotation can ideally start when yunjin has 2 husk stacks since E Q is her 3rd and 4th

[tardy thunder]

perhaps

should i do full team dps calc for this team

[lofty karma]

Bennett>xinyan
Gorou as on field

Or cut gorou for pikeli maybe if Bennett not c6

[tardy thunder]

rotation probably: Bennet E>Kazuha E Q>Bennet Q E>Rosaria E Q>Kazuha Hold E>Yunjin E Q 8N3D - throw in a second E into that combo at whatever point it came off cooldown

[tardy thunder]

or if the bennet is c6 just do WT Zhong instead of Pike

that could work

[lofty karma]

[tardy thunder]

how long of a rotation would this be second rotation: Rosaria E>Kazuha E Q>Bennet E Q>Rosaria E Q>Kazuha E>Yunjin E Q 8N3D with a second E thrown in off cd

less than 20s?

[balmy remnant]

second E during the 8N3D?

[tardy thunder]

yeah

prob an N3E instead of one of the N3Ds

whenever its off cd

or an N4E if that lines up better

whichever makes it work out

[balmy remnant]

i was just about to say “you can’t do 8N3D then” lol but a tap is about the same length as a dash so,, an N3E in there may still work

[tardy thunder]

[balmy remnant]

pls yunjin Q be affected by hitlag extension

[tardy thunder]

[balmy remnant]

and pls let my big brain frame assumptions be true or even better in reality

[modern blaze]

that would be really good
i wonder if yunjin would be better if her burst was 80/20s and lasted 15s with more charges

[lofty karma]

Worse for yoi for sure

Prob worse for physchl

[modern blaze]

true
but it would make her better for characters like razor and more swap friendly because a longer duration is more forgiving with timings i think

[tardy thunder]

sounds strictly worse

[tardy thunder]

true

how about just keep it 60 but give it a 15s duration

100% uptime

[modern blaze]

best of both worlds

[tardy thunder]

honestly if Yun Jin was a 5 star and mihoyo was allowed to go crazy with her, I wouldve designed her like this: Keep the NA buff from Q, but also make it buff CA and Plunge damage, but by smaller buff than the NA damage

[balmy remnant]

keep in mind, she’d have higher base stats, and a, oh my god, a signature DEF polearm

[modern blaze]

yunjin enabling spin2win comps

[tardy thunder]

Xinyan

[tardy thunder]

she shoulda been a sword user

cinnabar on her imagine

[compact girder]

Ningguang meta again wao

[tardy thunder]

looking good with yunjin as is

[compact girder]

Abuses buff 3-4 times

[tardy thunder]

[compact girder]

• NA an N2C would be 7 times

[tardy thunder]

[tardy thunder]

easily 30 stacks right

yeah that would be 35 hits

[compact girder]

Mmhmm

[tardy thunder]

@balmy remnant need you asap fren

Rosaria n3 frames with her c1 up

what are they like

she gets 10% atk speed from c1 and her n3 is a multi hit

[wheat valley]

14/28(-0.25*NA amount)

[modern blaze]

???

[balmy remnant]

hold up, let me get up, i’ll get that to you in a bit smh, i haven’t even put my earrings on

[balmy remnant]

do you want it with C2 jean too?

i hope i have C1 rosaria

[wheat valley]

Uptime.

-1s CD for each 4 autos she does.

[tardy thunder]

yeah if you want

to simulate c1 rosaria plus c6 yunjin

which is 22%

close enough to 25% for it to be a reasonable comparison

if chongun is on the team thats 30% atk speed

Rosaria Xinqiu Chongyun Yunjin

or if we can find a way to avoid yunjin shattering our omen extension, mona instead of xinqiu

would be funny if doable

maybe she attack fast enough with 30% attack speed to do Yunjin E Q Mona Q>Rosaria 8N3

[balmy remnant]

i don't have C1 rosaria

i can do chong and C2 jean and that would be 22%

[jovial citrus]

4pc bs? Or husk?

[tardy thunder]

works perfect

thats exact same amount

[tardy thunder]

oh this is rosaria on field idea

her n3 hits 2 times

and her c1 gives 10% atk speed

[jovial citrus]

Oh I see, and her normals will be infused by chongyun right? Sounds fun at least

[tardy thunder]

jesus her attacks feel slow tho

[tardy thunder]

in one of the ideas

[tardy thunder]

hopefully atk speed helps a lot

[tardy thunder]

the ideas are rosaria bennet(c6) kazuha yunjin and rosaria yunjin xinqiu kazuha/chongyun

koko could be used instead of xinqiu too

[jovial citrus]

Chongyun field doesn't last until the end tho

[tardy thunder]

why not?

his field lasts for 10s and the infusion lingers for 3s

its effectively 13s uptime

[jovial citrus]

3s?

[tardy thunder]

yes it says so on the skill

his infusion duration is 3s

so once the field is gone you still have it for 3s

[jovial citrus]

Ok I thought it was only 1, sorry

[tardy thunder]

bennet is similar he lingers for 2s

cuz his actual buff duration is 2s

but you are constantly refreshign the buff inside the field

same with chong his actual infusion duration is 3s but you are constantly refreshing it in the field

[jovial citrus]

I see, thats very nice

[tardy thunder]

i think im getting 5N3D +1n2 with rosaria

against regisvine

cant seem to get it to 6n3d

thats still 22 stacks tho

with yunjin c6 in play too it could prob be 6n3

getting 5 if i do a N3E to get an off cooldown E in there

thats 20 stacks

i think this is workable

[jovial citrus]

It will be hard for any character to get max value from her

[tardy thunder]

yeah - herself, xianlnig, ZL, and Physchl seem to be the only ones that get all 30

[jovial citrus]

Also noelle when in aoe

[tardy thunder]

dont know how she works with aoe yet tho

aim cancel Aloy prob can get close to all 30 stacks but trying to cryo infuse her is suffering

[jovial citrus]

Phys aloy then

[tardy thunder]

but then why not just fischl

[jovial citrus]

Lvl 1 with lvl 1 bow doing +10k

[tardy thunder]

10N1RR cancels actually feels suprisngly easy on Aloy in chongs field duration which i use to pretend is Yunjin Q

if only she could cryo infuse easier

when Aloy cons

yeah even with N2RR instead of N1RR im getting 10

there could really be something there if she could fucking infuse properly

[jovial citrus]

Aloy meta

[compact girder]

According to their description, they are acquired through "Various means". You just gotta do various stuff.

this and that, you know

[tardy thunder]

man Aloy even has normal attack damage bonus gain from her rushing ice state

this would be literally fucking perfect

if she didnt have that damn icd

stopping kazuha from putting her instantly in rushing ice

cmon aloy i want you to be good

[compact girder]

There's a way to work around that, but I don't remember the details

[tardy thunder]

plz tell me it isnt sac bow

i wanna use rust

[compact girder]

But there's a way to succ them one at a time

I think it was with Kaz, but I forgot the specifics, let's see if I can find it again.

[tardy thunder]

ill see if ic an find something too

[modern blaze]

noelle's shield uptime is 12/24 though
and uptime doesn't matter as long as it is active during the relevant part of the rotation and it doesn't delay your next rotation

[balmy remnant]

what combos do you want?

[tardy thunder]

N3

Her only multi hit is n3 so no need to go beyond that

[balmy remnant]

N3D?

[tardy thunder]

Wait

I’m wrong

Her N5 is multi hit too

[tardy thunder]

N3D and N5D

[balmy remnant]

oki

[balmy remnant]

i forgor to hit record again

[tardy thunder]

why couldnt Aloy Q at least get her instant max stacks

or something

instead it literally just do damge nothing else

[tardy thunder]

found someone say it works better with sucrose than kazuha

let me try it out

[compact girder]

It's possible, I vaguely remember someone explaining how to do it with Kazuha in Stormterror Lair.

And it was a really janky thing, basically one bomb would start moving, then when it exploded the next one would start moving, etc.

It was a youtube vid, but I haven't found it yet.

[tardy thunder]

can she gain stacks without being on field?

if can this might work with sucrose

[compact girder]

I think so

[tardy thunder]

kqm says she gain them of ffield too pog

@balmy remnant wanna do Aloy frames too?

[balmy remnant]

what combos?

[tardy thunder]

N1RR and N2RR. N3 or N4RR if we wanna see combos possibly easier to pull off too

sucrose seems to be working pretty consistently btw

rotation might have to be something like: Xinqiu EQ(E) > Aloy E Q > Sucrose E E Q > Yunjin E Q > Aloy 10N2RR

[compact girder]

What about AMC

[tardy thunder]

[compact girder]

Not actually serious but there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2MKa2ma3x8

[tardy thunder]

this might actually make sense

and be the play

[compact girder]

Also read in some comment that to get stacks you have to use Kaz E first and then Aloy E while the minivortex is on the field, but I don't know if that's what I was originally talking about.

[tardy thunder]

huh lemme try that

if you do that tho how swirl cry

oh just Q

duh

[compact girder]

Or charged shot

[tardy thunder]

or that

how many swirls is anemo traveler E btw

[compact girder]

iirc E is 2 swirls, Q is max 3.

[tardy thunder]

wait that not too copium

2 E per rotation 4 swirls Q E

less than kazuha but oh well not everyone can be kazuha

[compact girder]

It was low enough that people seemed to recommend crit over em builds

[tardy thunder]

oh dear

whats a good enemy to test this against?

[compact girder]

Ruin Hunter

[balmy remnant]

@tardy thunder almost done with rosa frames, just gotta sheet them into the table format

[balmy remnant]

i keep forgetting to record

N3RR and N4RR are slow as hell

[tardy thunder]

N2RR it is then

Or n1

[tardy thunder]

Okay it’s working the way you said with Kazuha pretty consistently

Kazuha hold E into Aloy E

[compact girder]

[tardy thunder]

So Aloy Kazuha Xinqiu Yunjin should work right

[lofty karma]

Pines on Chong?

[compact girder]

It's even a quad element team for Yun. Imagine when HZD 2 releases in February she gets cons and one of them removes the ICD

[lofty karma]

Yoi can if you're a aim cancel god

[compact girder]

Razor can't even with the double Q normal hits?

[tardy thunder]

200iq

[lofty karma]

Also childe c4 can

[tardy thunder]

His Q electro damage isn’t NA damage

Sadly

That would be so good if it was

[lofty karma]

Noelle also can assuming she hits 2 units every time

[tardy thunder]

Honestly I think Aloy might be able to even with dash instead of aim cancels

Her N2 feels super fast

[tardy thunder]

Dunno how it works with AoE yet tho

If it gives you stack damage for every enemy hit, or if AoE consumes more stacks without doing extra stack damage

The former wold be amazing the latter would be so lame

@balmy remnant can you do Aloy N2D too? I think it’s fast enough

[balmy remnant]

https://streamable.com/5fs9qz what do you think? you can also see one N3RR and one N4RR at the end in this one, the video is longer but i trimmed it for streamable, there's more N3RRs and N4RRs in the cut part for me to count

[lofty karma]

Noelle yunjin has other issues tho

Namely that yunjin needs to funnel Noelle
Which means she ends up needing stupid levels of ER herself

[compact girder]

Damn, I was convinced Razor's Q dealt normal damage too.

[lofty karma]

You can swap to yunjin mid burst tho so you at least get 2 Es per rotation

[compact girder]

My day is ruined

[modern blaze]

prototype starglitter finally found a home

as an ER statstick

[tardy thunder]

Time to dust off that EL

[lofty karma]

Basically EL
Or ER weapon + er sands

[tardy thunder]

Or use ER sands with Gorou on the team to compensate for less ER

How much ER are you thinking she would need?

[modern blaze]

4p exile gorou

[lofty karma]

Lmao

[tardy thunder]

That too

Not like he has anything better to use

[modern blaze]

if you go monodef there is no need for 4p NO

[lofty karma]

Gorou is super energy hungry himself

[tardy thunder]

R5 favonious plus 2 piece exile is already a lot of energy

[lofty karma]

So that just makes the problem worse

[compact girder]

5* Exile when

[tardy thunder]

And his damage doesn’t matter at all

So he can use an Er sands

He also doesn’t even have to Q every rotation

[modern blaze]

250% ER gorou

[tardy thunder]

You’d lose out on 25% defense tho

[modern blaze]

problem solved

[tardy thunder]

But I don’t see any harm in using an ER sands on him

His damage is pitiful already

And stacking defense doesn’t do anything on him

[lofty karma]

Er is yunjins major caveat
Not only does she need energy
The teams she enables make near 0 energy

[tardy thunder]

His heals don’t matter Noelle heals

[tardy thunder]

Maybe do Noelle Yunjin Gorou Fischl

Fav Gorou

[compact girder]

Yeah might as well make him a fav bot.

[modern blaze]

no albedo?

[tardy thunder]

Lemme see what numbers I get if I calculator that

[tardy thunder]

Or him

[balmy remnant]

noir did you watch the video? do you think N2D is fast enough to compare to N2RR?

[modern blaze]

albedo's particle generation is worse than fischl but since they're geo they give more energy i think?

[tardy thunder]

I watched it

Didn’t see N2D in it tho

[balmy remnant]

i know, you didn't ask for it when i recorded that

[tardy thunder]

oh my bad

i hadnt thought of it yet

@lofty karma

[balmy remnant]

so i'm asking if it's worth counting N2D after seeing the speed of N2RR

[tardy thunder]

this seems perfectly fine

[tardy thunder]

i think so

[modern blaze]

246% ER gorou

[tardy thunder]

thats easy

[modern blaze]

yea but poor boy he gets no energy for himself

[tardy thunder]

you're already at 218 just from 2 fixed subs, ER sands, and favonious, under kqm standards

give him 4 piece exile and now hes at 238

so just need 2 subs

[modern blaze]

also did you calc yunjin skill as 2 particles or 3? that could change ER reqs a little

[tardy thunder]

and you have room for 8 er subs

[tardy thunder]

press is 2

i put 2 press

and put them funneled to her

if you funnel them to yunjin noelle will need less

137 isnt even bad tho

[lofty karma]

Except gorou

Lmao

[tardy thunder]

no thats easy

fav plus sands

theres no real reason not to use an er sands on him

[wheat valley]

@tardy thunder I need feedback

Check pings

[modern blaze]

i think you can do hold for the first EQ on yunjin, it doesn't cost burst uptime anyways

the one mid burst i agree should be press (or hold but hope you can counter with it so it's a quick one)

[tardy thunder]

what is that

[lofty karma]

Second yunjin has 3s of leeway time too
So should be able to switch parry

[wheat valley]

A system for measuring comfort of use. I need feedback.

[modern blaze]

yep
can't believe 4p exile is a real option here

[tardy thunder]

i was suggesting exile gorou already for itto

[modern blaze]

yea me too but at least itto comps could kinda use 4p NO

[tardy thunder]

with 1.5 hold E inputted to simulated 1 press 1 hold i have 135 on noelle 129 on Yunjin

thats basically 0 ER on yunjin btw

[modern blaze]

looks good

[tardy thunder]

she already hits that with ascension plus 2 fixed subs under kqm standards

so you wouldnt need to use any liquid subs

thats also without exile

[modern blaze]

deathmatch yunjin then

[tardy thunder]

lemme see what happens if i apply exile

thats 6 Energy total right

oh wait

yunjins is so low because i still had rosaria c4 there lol

its 155

corrected

still not bad due to her ascension

thats 5 subs

before exile

[balmy remnant]

@tardy thunder

[tardy thunder]

hmm so both work

this looks promising

thank you my friend i appreciate you

and everything you do

ill calc it with 5NE total cuz you probably want to fit an E in there which i assume would make the n2 at the end not fit in

[balmy remnant]

aloy ones coming up soon

[tardy thunder]

now im also curious about kaeya even tho he doesnt have multi hits

hasnt got multi hits but his free 15 CR at c1 could make up for it

the ideas just keep coming to me

@balmy remnant wanna add N2D kaeya to the list

i feel terrbiel for how many things i throw at you

wait the frames are on keqing mains already

https://library.keqingmains.com/characters/cryo/kaeya

not sure if its counting dashes or not

[modern blaze]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PN0WgqENUfV8i5hnrz1BOEU56fk7m8FYlFXzFzrsS3k/edit#gid=100333717
this sheet has them

but no cancels either

[tardy thunder]

[modern blaze]

i used that sheet for some noelle stuff
in her page it says

Near perfect sprint cancelling: 20 frames
Jump cancel : 35 frames (noelle), Kaeya (37 frames), Jean 39 frames

is it the same for each character?

[tardy thunder]

so just add like 24 frames to everything for dash cancels?

[modern blaze]

yes, instead of the recovery frames

[balmy remnant]

are those w/ c2 jean tho

[tardy thunder]

No

[bronze kayak]

hello is yunjin a buffer or more of a shielder? also how is she fairing up atm? i was hoping to use her as a support for keqing

[mental ingot]

Shielderjin.

Yunjin is not a shielder, for the same reason Beidou is not a shielder.

She’ll be fine for Keqing, but her focus is buffing normal attacks so the CA spam won’t benefit that much.

[tardy thunder]

She doesn’t shield she buffs

[bronze kayak]

okii okii thanks-thanksss

[balmy remnant]

jk, i forgot the N2D, hold up

[balmy remnant]

@tardy thunder

[tardy thunder]

Only 25 hits?

[balmy remnant]

i’m pretty sure i boomer handed it

[tardy thunder]

Prolly

[balmy remnant]

i can put together the fastest you can do it frame perfectly