Yunjin Thread

[tardy thunder]

[balmy remnant]

but then your field time is 45 + 38

[tardy thunder]

I don’t know what that means

[balmy remnant]

so 1.38 seconds, while a tap E is just .7 seconds

aka you're on field for double the time

[tardy thunder]

More like .38 seconds longer

Cuz switch Cd is 1s anyway

[balmy remnant]

so not bad

[tardy thunder]

Basically beidou

So you guys think enemies will suddenly gain 200 IQ when Yunjin tries to parry, just like beidou?

[tame tree]

at least is better than Beidou since you can get max dmg regardless if a enemy hits you

[fathom trail]

anyone do any damage calculations for her E and damage transfer for her Q yet?

[tardy thunder]

I did math for her in a pure pyro Xianling team

[fathom trail]

lemme c

[tardy thunder]

Check my messages here it should be up a bit

I can’t send it again I’m out of town away from laptop

Btw anyone math Yunjin with Yoi yet?

[grizzled schooner]

What would the comp even be?

[buoyant mural]

this is so weird why does this happen tho

[compact girder]

Unlike beidou yunjin doesnt have to stare at enemies

I calced yun jin Nas with def def crit and white tassel because i was bored

N1= 2931.9
N2= 2926.32
N3= 2552.0 + 2650.68
N4= 2574.29 + 2678.67
N5= 3511.5
(All are crit)

Though uh, idk if its right

[tardy thunder]

It’s Yunjin Kazuha Xianling bennet c6

You use Xianling on field NA spamming

Pyro infused autos

Calced her doing about 860k personal dpr there

[radiant wagon]

is this at lv 6 or 10?

for talents

[compact girder]

Level 8 AA and Level 8 Q

The damage is low though

I dont know if my calcs are wrong or my mainstats were unoptimal

Hmmmm

N1-5 is 19825.36

Yun jin full string would be around 2.8 seconds

Yeah only around 6k dps

Its kinda bad

[brazen mirage]

As a support, would 4pc petra be better than 4pc husk?

[compact girder]

Depends on where tbh

[brazen mirage]

I was thinking along the lines of Childe or Diluc

[compact girder]

Oh then use petra

[brazen mirage]

Gotcha, thanks!

[grizzled schooner]

How much was yunjin buffing xiangling na’s for?

[compact girder]

Yun jin 286% mv/s

[nimble glade]

Just wondering but
How much damage can yunjin's E reach with 4 piece husk and C6 gorou

[unkempt basin]

I did look into that a bit:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/125PU3QPQfrOLAw3tT2pcBAm1HvZTq5T46RUirXsz8Ng/edit#gid=884760229

[nimble glade]

Let me look

I just realized idk how to read spreadsheets

[unkempt basin]

Stage 2 Counter average dmg:
T10 2.2k DEF 89/175: 37k (Geo Reso) / 54.5k (+ C6 Gorou)
T10 3.07k DEF 77/136: 30.8k (Geo Reso) / 44.8k (+ C6 Gorou)
T13 2.2k DEF 89/175: 43.7k (Geo Reso) / 64.4k (+ C6 Gorou)
T13 3.07k DEF 77/136: 36.4k (Geo Reso) / 53k (+ C6 Gorou)

[nimble glade]

Thank u very much

[unkempt basin]

2.2k DEF -> DEF/Geo/Crit Build
3.07k DEF -> DEF/DEF/DEF Build

[nimble glade]

Hmm so u will gain more on the ult if u build triple def

But lose on the E

But if u build her def geo crit u lose on the burst

[unkempt basin]

Yep. But if the Q works like assumed it massively outweighs her E dmg which makes building Triple DEF way betetr for her overall contribution

[nimble glade]

I am planning to use her in full geo with itto
But idk if itto even autos that much

His damage seems charged attack based

[unkempt basin]

Deathmatch also helps with stabilizing Crit somewhat for Triple DEF, so her counter dmg doesn't completely collapse

[nimble glade]

Hmm ya

[unkempt basin]

Yunjin is not a good idea for Itto

You use way too few NAs with him

[nimble glade]

Ya ik but i just wanna 4 def scaling geo

I might build her with dps stats then

[unkempt basin]

4 DEF sclaing Geo has no shield

[nimble glade]

Would shields be needed that much?

[unkempt basin]

100%

[nimble glade]

Everyone has defense

[unkempt basin]

You need it for Geo Resonance

[nimble glade]

oh

I completely forgot about it

[unkempt basin]

So one slot in an Itto comp is ALWAYS reserved for a shield, ideally ZL

What you want to do works with Noelle though

[nimble glade]

Hmm ya unfortunately my noelle ain't C6

[unkempt basin]

since Noelle brings her own shield and also uses NA primarily

Thats unfortunate

[nimble glade]

But ya noelle will be good with yunjin albedo gorou

[compact girder]

How about def geo def with dm?

[nimble glade]

Back to yunjin tho she is basically best support for noelle aloy and yoimiya
And the characters that u build physical for no reason if u r feeling daring

[unkempt basin]

T13 DEF/Geo/DEF: 41.8k (Geo Reso) / 60.6k (+ C6 Gorou)

Still a tad behind for total dmg under my current assumptions at both 20 and 30 Q procs.

[compact girder]

Def geo def or def def crit? Which one has bigger Q procs (i know def def def is her only build but)

[unkempt basin]

Neither has any impact on her Q Procs unless she herself is the one NAing

[compact girder]

If shes the one NA ing then Def def crit is better right

Ive done def def crit calcs with her NAing

With white tassel

Numbers are low tho

[unkempt basin]

Probably not since her NAs still scale off of ATK so that scenario is really complicated

[compact girder]

N1= 2931.9
N2= 2926.32
N3= 2552.0 + 2650.68
N4= 2574.29 + 2678.67
N5= 3511.5
(All are crit)

This is with Q buff

[unkempt basin]

I'd guess you are better off with ADC if she is supposed to NA

[compact girder]

Yeah, cpike adc

But id sacrifice counter dmg

Eh i think ill just go def geo crit tbh

[nimble glade]

Her autos multiplier suck tho and idk if she has multi hits

[compact girder]

She does

[nimble glade]

Oh

[compact girder]

And her autos have decent scaling

[nimble glade]

Better than xiangling/zhongli?

[compact girder]

With cpike she does about 271% mv/s

[compact girder]

Better than zhong i think

But not xl

[nimble glade]

Hmmmm

Physical yunjin?

4 piece husk
But u get an physical goblet

And Cpike

Idk how u would build the sands and hat tho

[unkempt basin]

Thing with ZL is that he brings 20% RES Shred for himself and the rest of the Team

so beating him as a Pike Carry is pretty difficult

[nimble glade]

Ok how about
Yunjin zhongli and gorou

Zhongli will bring the res and shield
Gorou will bring her defense for her ult

For 4th member idk maybe benny?

[unkempt basin]

I don't think Hyper Carry Yunjin is a good idea

[nimble glade]

Neither do i but it was an interesting thought

[compact girder]

Hmm would yun jin Q buff make her a bit better

[nimble glade]

I don't think it would cuz if u want to me the buff good enough u need def on her
Which means u r sacrificing on Cpike and auto damage

[unkempt basin]

T13 Gorou Buff would be ~1.2k more dmg per Q proc on a T13 Q 89/175 ADC 2Bsc2PF Yunjin

Less with Pike but I don't have the Pike numbers right now

[compact girder]

I dont think it’s enough

Hmm

[unkempt basin]

Nah, thats bad for beign everything he does there

[compact girder]

Someone on yjmains said her dps with pike is 270% mv/s

[unkempt basin]

Even with full 30 procs its like 30k dmg

[compact girder]

I want her to deal nice counters while having an okay Q buff but i think that might be too much to ask for

[nimble glade]

Would yunjin personal damage be higher than the 10% damage bonus the geo res gives?
If i ofc build her def/geo/def

[unkempt basin]

That works, just not if she is to sit on-field aswell

[compact girder]

She wont

Ningguang will be driving her

I just swap to yun jin whenever her counter is ready

[unkempt basin]

Then DM DEF/DEF/DEF is still fine

[unkempt basin]

^

[compact girder]

Ill try to get triple def

Since i got a cdmg hat with really good deff rolls..

[unkempt basin]

If you have a Crit Circlet with a ton of DEF% thats also fine

[compact girder]

Ah nice

[unkempt basin]

not a groundbreakign difference

just gotta get the counters out

[compact girder]

I cant wait for 100k counter yun jin

Maybe this is possible

[unkempt basin]

With enough crit fishing, sure

[nimble glade]

It 100% definitely should be possible

[unkempt basin]

Can also get Mona out for Omen

[compact girder]

100k Q dmg also possible

[unkempt basin]

ZL + Geo Reso for 40% Geo shred

[compact girder]

Homa, bennett, zl, mona

Can I ask why does Yunjins Q buff benefit characters that multi hit more?

[unkempt basin]

Only reason would be if you can oherwise not consume all 30 Stacks

[compact girder]

Noelle against 30 hilichurls

[compact girder]

Ah okay, thank you

[unkempt basin]

[nimble glade]

Asking for a friend
Would a physical xinyan like zhongli or yunjin more for support?

[fast vine]

yun jin good for dps noelle?

like yun jin, gorou, noelle, bennett

[modern blaze]

i plan on trying a team like that once she releases but with albedo instead of benny

in theory it should work fine, yunjin's Q works on aoe hits so noelle should be able to get full value of her even with her slow attack speed

only issue is elemental shields but... just don't use that team comp against abyss mages/heralds

[tawny spoke]

Do you have a team calc for Yunjin, noelle, gorou? I think this team should be fine with energy since this would run like 2 favs also the last slot is pretty much flexible

[unkempt basin]

Not yet. I was planning to eventually look into it with the given Itto vs Noelle situation on the horizon

But its not first thing on my priority list atm

[tawny spoke]

Oh ok ok

[faint hornet]

So, Yun Jin's NA damage isn't that high even with her buff? I suppose should could still make a decent burst DPS.

[unkempt basin]

Problem is more that her Buff is based on DEF, whereas the NAs are still normally scaling with ATK. So by building one you compromise the other, making it much more efficient to jsut build her DEF and give someone else the Q that can fully build their NA dmg

[faint hornet]

Yeah, but at that point, Bennett and Sara's buffs are just way better it seems.

[unkempt basin]

Might very well be the case, but they are not exclusive to each other

And maybe having Yunjin will allow you to free up Bennett for another Team w/o gimping your NA DPS

[silk gorge]

is there math on yunjin buffing childe and whether or not it's worth running?

[radiant wagon]

who would she replace on childes vape/taser team?

[silk gorge]

i mean i currently run childe xl zl bennett

she'd replace the anemo ig?

[unkempt basin]

There is basically no way that will ever be worth it

VV just means too much dmg on both Childe and XL

[silk gorge]

okay yeah thought so. it's more of an "if an anemo isn't avaliable is she good enough" question ig

[unkempt basin]

Haven't calced it but might be situational. For one Childe actually likes his CA, so he might not get an overwhelming amount of NAs out and if using more NA heavy combos is worthwhile would have to be experimented with.
Weapons can also shift the value Yunjin provides if current assumptions are true. Thundering Pulse being the prime example of significantly increasing NA damage while still being a crit stick.

[silk gorge]

yeah pulse was the weapon that came to mind. it would prob edge out over polar w yunjin, right?

[unkempt basin]

Since it was very close to begin with iirc that might very well be the case, yeah

[hot bane]

Current speculation is Yun Jin's additional damage should be affected by Yoimiya's unique normal attack multiplier from E, right?

[unkempt basin]

Yes

[hot bane]

Could see 7.5-10k additional damage then with high invested Yoi

?

[unkempt basin]

Seems plausible

[hot bane]

These boosted attack mechanics with Shen/Yun seem kinda broken for certain chars

[faint hornet]

Huh. Is there any other character that works like Yoimiya?

[unkempt basin]

Nope, atleast not with regards to NA

[faint hornet]

Could you explain exactly why Yoimiya would gain more from Yun Jin's buff?

[unkempt basin]

Yoi will likely get the most dmg out of Yunjin out of all the current characters per Stack

[unkempt basin]

Yoimiya's E is a uniqe Dmg multiplier on her NAs

Added MV, as its assumed to be for Yunjin's Q, is effectively the same type of dmg as the attack that triggered it. So the E Multiplier from Yoimiya would also apply to the Yunjin Q Procs

[faint hornet]

So, essentially, Yun Jin's buff would apply twice?

[unkempt basin]

It wouldn't apply twice, its dmg is simply affected by Yoimiya's E NA dmg multiplier

[faint hornet]

How so?

[unkempt basin]

I jsut explained that

[faint hornet]

I'm still confused. You're gonna have to pull back a bit.

[hot bane]

Her E gives her 158% normal attack damage at TL9

Unique multiplier

So the additional damage is 1.58x

[faint hornet]

How does that apply to Yun Jin though?

[hot bane]

If it is affected by all multitpliers that Yoi's dmg is

Then ^

[unkempt basin]

Dmg formula, assuming Yunjin Q is added MV:

((Yoi ATK) * NA MV) + (Yunjin DEF * Yunjin Q Multiplier)) * Crit * Dmg% * RES * DEF * Yoimiya's E Multiplier

[hot bane]

Friend's 269% CDMG Yoi could get 10.5k added dmg per hit with C0 Yun and VV

13.5k C6

[unkempt basin]

Yunjin's Q procs are basically just added to the Base dmg of Yoimiyas NA and then go through all her own modifiers the same

[hot bane]

That's only with like 2200 DEF Yun thoug H

How much DEF can a high invest Yun realistically reach?

I saw some calcs above with 3.07k?

How?

[unkempt basin]

2.2k is doable. 3k is with Gorou

[hot bane]

oh

[faint hornet]

Why would it work like that when Yun Jin's damage is done on a hit?

[unkempt basin]

Its not a separate dmg number, its like ZLs HP% Passive

[hot bane]

Or Hu Tao C2

Or Baal Q

[faint hornet]

So, it's the type of damage buff that's the thing?

How is the order of which is applied determined.

[unkempt basin]

order is irrelevant since the individual modifiers are multiplicative to each other

whether you * Crit first or * Dmg% first makes no difference

[faint hornet]

Order is relevant. If Yun Jin's dmg bonus applied last, it'd be less.

[unkempt basin]

Its not a dmg bonus, its additional MV

based on Yunjin's DEF

[faint hornet]

"When Normal Attack DMG is dealth to opponents, Bonus DMG will be dealt based on Yun Jin's DEF."

[unkempt basin]

It behaves like ZLs Passive, Raiden's Resolve, Kokomi's Q HP% scaling etc.

What I mean is that its not a dmg% effect

[faint hornet]

And I never said it was a dmg% effect, so idk why you acted like that.

And you never actually responded to what I said there, just said some irrelevant stuff.

[unkempt basin]

It works exactly like ZLs Passive in the dmg formula

[hot bane]

[unkempt basin]

which means its being added to be Base NA dmg before other modifiers

[faint hornet]

I didn't.

[hot bane]

It's possible that it has a new function unlike anything currently in existence, but odds are it works similarly to existing talents/passives

No reason to expect it to be diff Er ent

[faint hornet]

Neither Kokomi or Zhongli's passives talk about damage being dealt.

[hot bane]

Hu Tao C2 and Raiden Q work the same way

[faint hornet]

Yun Jin's says that it occurs when damage is dealt, so it's possible the order is not what's assumed.

[hot bane]

As ZL Passive

Dunno why you're trying to argue it will work differently

[unkempt basin]

Bc those Passives are unconditionally active, whereas Yunjin's Q triggers conditionally

[hot bane]

We have evidence and rational logic that suggests it should work similarly

Anything is possible thoug H

[faint hornet]

Right, but that's still an assumption. Probably right, but it could be different.

[hot bane]

Probably right, yes

But unreleased so

[unkempt basin]

We don't have hard proof, yet, yes

Thats simply the assumptions we work under to be able to do some preliminary work

[faint hornet]

Right, and I get that, but I think it's pretty dismissive to say the order doesn't matter when it could, and then go off on some semantic tangent...

If Yun Jin's bonus damage applies after the multiplier, it's a lot worse.

[unkempt basin]

Since I already wrote the dmg formula and explained it with an example twice I assumed you were talking about it being a dmg mod

[hot bane]

If it works as we think, the order doesn't matter

🙂

[unkempt basin]

Which is why I went to that topic

[faint hornet]

So, ok. Yoimiya Yun Jin Gorou Zhongli. Use Yun Jin to buff Yoimiya but also as Burst DPS.

[hot bane]

Yoi Yun Fischl/Beidou Anemo

What I would run

Could replace Anemo with ZL, might make rotation easier

[faint hornet]

So, how much damage does Bennett add to Yoimiya currently though?

[unkempt basin]

Bennett usually ranges from 40-60% dmg increase based on the unit and Bennett ATK Buff for the duration of his Q

atleast for regular ATK scaling units

[faint hornet]

I'm just wondering, if Yun Jin's buff works as advertised, is it likely to go further than Bennett?

And in that case, is Yun Jin's biggest failing just that she only buffs normal attacks, not that her buff is exactly bad.

[hot bane]

She's def better than Bennett

well, I shouldn't say that

For Yoi specifically yeah

Dunno for team

[faint hornet]

But do you think she'd work ok on Noelle or Eula?

[hot bane]

I don't think she's worth

For them

For Noelle yeah

Not Eula

[faint hornet]

Hm, I guess Bennett's not seen as worth it for Noelle already...

[hearty thunder]

It is pretty much confirmed that yunjin burst is additional mv?

Based on the vid

[compact girder]

Team with zhong/fischl/rosa

[odd lotus]

that's my sheet btw, it's messy af so just lemme know if you find issues

ah i think that link only showed one page of it

@compact girder can you view this?

[compact girder]

Hmm it looks alright, im not experienced in sheeting so ill let someone else have a look

[hollow frost]

I dont want to be rude, but this is so misleading on so many levels. You CANNOT calc dps by doing damage from one moveset/frames for that moveset. Cause by that logic no characters has setup time or downtime. Eula can do 300k in 7seconds and have 43k dps alone. It doesnt work like that. Also. Evem if you use frames, where are jump dash cancels, hitlags (if they dont exist yet you have to simulate some), and even then you can only get modified MV/s, not dps. DPS should pnly be used in a full detailed calc with almost or most variables known already.

Pls rework it, before it spreads misinformation

Privatize it until you are confident about it through fact checking and cross reference is my advice

[odd lotus]

Oh hey Sitri yeah that’s very fair

This was super off the cuff, @compact girder asked if they could share it here

Lemme delete it from here

Remove this when you can

[compact girder]

Done

[hollow frost]

Thanks.

[odd lotus]

Thanks

[hollow frost]

Calcs are fine and all, but even for leaks, in fact especially leaks when emotions are high, it is better to be extra careful

If you want to learn to make sheets, dm some people who has experienced with it here and kqm and ask them to check your work out for you

[odd lotus]

Yeah fair

I had some people look at my calcs but yeah this isn’t full rotation at all

[odd lotus]

Do you have any examples of simulated hitlag btw?

[hollow frost]

2-3 frames per hit is decent for polearms

[odd lotus]

okay, thanks

[balmy remnant]

only footage we have of Yunjin hitlag is N1, her CA, and N1, N2, and the first hit of N3 during her ult

and her skill ig

[hardy otter]

2 husk 2 emblem for yunjin?

[tardy thunder]

4 husk

[modern blaze]

has anyone tried comparing yunjin's buff with ZL's omnishred? considering they're kinda competing for the same spot in a team i think it's a good idea

hopefully she's better she's way more specific than him and provides no shield other than crystallize

[compact girder]

I dont think she is tbh

[modern blaze]

in that case
i want buffs

i'll try to do some quick calcs later for noelle

[compact girder]

Inflate her numbers

[modern blaze]

assuming mono geo with gorou buffs

[compact girder]

Make her E deal 900% at T13

[radiant wagon]

yunjins geo, she wont get the electro mv treatment

[compact girder]

What

Ningguang has a 1200% mv

[radiant wagon]

oh wait yeah i forgot about ningguangs scaling

[modern blaze]

according to my quick calcs yunjin is ~10% better than ZL for noelle's personal dps (using KQM's standard)
but i dunno, if you have an invested ADC ZL maybe his burst compensates and makes him better overall (or maybe not? 2s burst + 2s shield cast is a lot of field time)

[grizzled schooner]

Yo quick question what’s mv kek

[modern blaze]

motion value, the damage multiplier from the attack/skill you're using

[tardy thunder]

When do you have time to burst with ZL in Noelle team tho

[modern blaze]

***forgot to add base DEF here in the Total DEF part results should be ~5% higher in favor of yunjin

[tardy thunder]

Noelle has no downtime

[modern blaze]

true

[tardy thunder]

Plus Yunjin should be way better for energy

[modern blaze]

those are my calcs/assumptions
i kinda ignored dmg% and crit because they should be the same for both cases

[tardy thunder]

Also if a Gorou is on the team too then Yunjin gets even more valuable

Cuz his buff will increase the size of her buff

And her damage too

[modern blaze]

true

[dark schooner]

People dont build ZL as shieldbot?

[modern blaze]

def scaler tribal looks even better

[tardy thunder]

Noelle Yunjin Gorou should be a really strong trio

Looks like we found a shiny Dugtrio

[modern blaze]

4th slot can be albedo or a shieldbreaker element

[tardy thunder]

Albedo or bennet

Should be BiS

Bennet if you want absolute gigachad hyper Noelle

Albedo for probably the overall BiS team

[modern blaze]

until you have to fight an abyss mage/herald

[dark schooner]

Add jean

[modern blaze]

with gorou c0 it jumps from ~10% to ~15% better than ZL

[nova parrot]

Is the 4 piece set a big deal? Seems like substats could easily beat it? Unless her ult counts towards stacks somehow?

[compact girder]

That defense doesn't seem right

[unkempt basin]

What you might want to look into is a total dmg breakdown, including how many AAs are even buffed per rotation.
Noelle has a really good chunk of her total dmg in E and Q cast and overall Yunjin dmg increase with further go down based on the actual Yunjin Buff Uptime

[compact girder]

Yeah I think the total def is missing the base def.

[nova parrot]

Has someone looked at smth like Hu tao/xq/yj/zl?

[modern blaze]

you're right oops

[compact girder]

684+(684*(0.583*3 + 0.062*12 + 0.54))*0.5467

1818.1685124
That should be the actual dmg bonus

[modern blaze]

that's a lot more work
i did check noelle's frame data and she shouldn't run out of yunjin burst charges unless she's fighting 4 or more enemies but besides that i dunno

[compact girder]

1921.9 for triple Geo because of her A4, pretty good for a uncrowned C0 Unit

[unkempt basin]

Not running out isn't necessarily a good thing, but besides that Yunjin's Burst doesn't have 100% Uptime

its 10/15

[modern blaze]

yep
but gorou's is also not 100% i think?

[unkempt basin]

Gorou Buff has 100% Uptime

[modern blaze]

how would a noelle + yunjin + gorou rotation look like?

[compact girder]

Do those kinds of buffs get extended by hitlag?

[unkempt basin]

no idea tbh

[modern blaze]

i fixed it and i get a different value
2758 DEF and 1508 NA buff

[compact girder]

Oh right, messed up my operator precedence.

[modern blaze]

btw is it ok to just multiply yunjin's buff by 2/3 to account for 10/15s uptime?

[tardy thunder]

I wouldn’t do that

[compact girder]

Yeah, 1508 seems right

[unkempt basin]

2758 is with or w/o Gorou Buff?

[modern blaze]

without

[tardy thunder]

Get the amount of NAs you should do per rotation and the amount that should be buffed by Yunjin

[unkempt basin]

That shouldn't be possible

[tardy thunder]

Why

[modern blaze]

triple def + 12 def substats and 4p HooD

[tardy thunder]

^

[unkempt basin]

2758 / 684 = 4.03, Thats 303% DEF Subs

[tardy thunder]

HooD, main stats?

Also c4

And DM if he’s using it

Yunjin can stack a lot of defense from what I’ve seen

[unkempt basin]

nmv, I'm dumb and looked at the wrong sheet

[tardy thunder]

Triple defense plus HooD is already 2414

[modern blaze]

yes
175% comes from mainstats
74.4% comes from substats
54% from HooD

[unkempt basin]

which counted only 1 DEF Mainstat

checks out nvm

[tardy thunder]

Btw I’m running numbers for Yunjin Yoi right now

I did math for it on my flight back home and it looked extremely impressive

Gonna do it all over again to double check now that I’m home

And send here

[unkempt basin]

Yoi's E multiplier is huge for Yunjin Q

[modern blaze]

so uh how many NAs does noelle do in a rotation?

[tardy thunder]

It is

I never knew she was multiplicative

When I found that out I had to calc right away

The number I got earlier was over 1m DPR for Yoi on a 15s rotation

Don’t quote that number until I have my math ready to present tho

Shit was over 80k dps tho

Gimme bout 15-20 mins I’ll have it ready

[unkempt basin]

That seems sus

[tardy thunder]

You can check it in a bit

How is yoi a2 typically used in calcs @unkempt basin ? Since it’s ramp up

I’m just gonna take the 30% and divide it Down to 10% for now to estimate accounting for ramp up

Or I’ll just leave it out then add it in later

Same with Yunjin c4

[unkempt basin]

You could average it out if you have the NA count

[tardy thunder]

3 N5, which should be 21 attacks

[unkempt basin]

(2+4+6+8+10+12+14+16+18+12*20)/21

~15.7% avg Pyro dmg bonus

[grizzled schooner]

I see, ty

[tardy thunder]

Thnx

[tardy thunder]

What about Yunjin c4 since that’s got a 0.3s icd

[unkempt basin]

Don't know the NA interval. If every shot has >18 frames you can do it the same way

If unsure just take it as 10-12%

not like 3-5% additive dmg make or break it, its a first look anyway

[tardy thunder]

I’ll use 10%

She’s saturated as fuck on damage bonus here anyway

[unkempt basin]

But thinking about it and looking at my Yunjin Calcs. If Yoi can hit 600k+ DPR before Yunjin, 1M might be plausible

[radiant wagon]

i wonder if yunjin changes yoimiyas talent priority

[grizzled schooner]

Do you have a rough estimate on how much yunjin would buff a character’s na?

For example yoimiya

[unkempt basin]

Depends a lot on the character and their Stats

[grizzled schooner]

I see, does the buff only get affected by crit?

[tardy thunder]

@unkempt basin

let me know what errors i made plz

[unkempt basin]

Crit and other modifiers like dmg%

[grizzled schooner]

Kk ty

[unkempt basin]

Afaik Yoimiya E is the multiplier and not an increase

[tardy thunder]

Oh so 1.5879 not 2.5879?

Let me see what I get if I change that

[unkempt basin]

Yep

so you just lost almost 40% total dmg

[tardy thunder]

ugh lokos ugly when copya pasta

[tardy thunder]

this is what i get now

still seems really good

[unkempt basin]

Certainly not bad

however you can't make it a 15s rot

Yoi E has 18s cd

[tardy thunder]

oh

musta been looking at her ult to get 15

Ok so that’s 47k dps

52k if Yunjin is c6

[unkempt basin]

84k is Yunjin contribution?

via q procs

[tardy thunder]

Yeah that’s how much per N5 string

255,327 total per rot

Yoi dpr without Yunjin buff here (still counting Petra tho) is about 598,500

Yunjin buffs it by 255,327

That’s like a 42% increase right

[unkempt basin]

That looks plausible to me

[tardy thunder]

Throw in c6 and it’s a 54% increase

[unkempt basin]

C6 would depend a little on how many extra shots actually manifest

even w/o hitlag its breakpoint based

[tardy thunder]

Her DPR here too similar to what I got for Xianling in the same spot tho tho I also didn’t assume any ER on XL which might not be plausible

So idk

I did also give XL Homa cuz I didn’t know what 4 star to give her for this team

[unkempt basin]

Could very well be the case. Thing is though that XL does AoE dmg

But Yunjin seems like a good option for Hypercarry Yoi

[tardy thunder]

If only her E was 15s

Woulda had everyone on team a 15s cd

[modern blaze]

is this better?

[unkempt basin]

Meeting ER reqs on Kaz would've been ahrd

I had that issue with 14s Quad Melt CY Shenhe rots

[tardy thunder]

favonious

[unkempt basin]

Fav couldn't have saved that mess I had there

[tardy thunder]

What did you have

Did you only do 1 Kazuha E per ult? Instead of E Q then E again off Cd?

[unkempt basin]

Don't blame me for nightmares

[tardy thunder]

This is what I do in Xinyan PP

[unkempt basin]

With Sac/C1 you might be able to fit the 2 Kaz Es, yeah

[tardy thunder]

Or chongyun cdr

Which you have

It’s a 5s Cd with chong

[unkempt basin]

You still need to find the time for it with switch cds and what not, its incredibly tight

[tardy thunder]

Isn’t that kinda ideal for buff uptime anyway tho to refresh VV?

[modern blaze]

when you start considering the proportion of buffed/unbuffed attacks, yunjin slowly loses ground to ZL in a noelle comp

[unkempt basin]

If you can fit it inot the rot sure

[tardy thunder]

Like say for example you do chongyun E>Kazuha E Q Bennet E Q>Kazuha E

That should work

Swap to another ability before the Kazuha E if it would still be on cd there

I don’t k ow what exact rotation in the team you have there is cuz I don’t know Shenhe

[unkempt basin]

Yep, but I fear if you now include Noelle E and Q dmg the Yunjin advantage would be voided entirely

[modern blaze]

noo

[tardy thunder]

What happen with Yunjin noelle math

[balmy remnant]

who wants to do pikejin?

[modern blaze]

ZL's geo VV wins once you start considering her buff uptime and other sources of geo dmg like her shield pop and burst cast

well doesn't really win but they become more or less equal
but ZL buffs the entire team

[tardy thunder]

Zhongli energy Zhongli damage

How many NAs are you assuming for Noelle?

And how many buffed by Yunjin?

[modern blaze]

Rotation: N4D x4 + N3D (~15s), 3/4 N4D buffed

[tardy thunder]

What’s the full team?

[modern blaze]

noelle yunjin/ZL gorou

[tardy thunder]

Who 4th

[modern blaze]

no 4th

this was supposed to be a quick calc

[tardy thunder]

I’ll try running some numbers for this myself see what I get

Gimme like 20 mins

[modern blaze]

if you consider the 4th member is probably albedo ZL looks even stronger

[unkempt basin]

Tbh I'm not even sure 4 x N4D + N3D in 15s checks out. FOr Noelle energy you have to quickswap around. I asked Terra back when I calced Noelle how much he could fit in a 20s window.
And in the clip he had 5x N3D in 20s including the swaps for energy etc. So you'd maybe get 3 N3D inside the Yunjin Q

[tardy thunder]

Was thinking the same

Which should favor Yunjin more than Zhongli

Cuz you QS to her for energy

You can’t do that with ZL

[balmy remnant]

"12% ATK SPD increase" , nah but i don't think they're clicking the fastest in the animation showcases

[modern blaze]

in a noelle gorou yunjin comp you would only quickswap to do yunjin parry though, and that is every 9s iirc

[tardy thunder]

7s

If c1

You’d swap off for a Yunjin E when Yunjin Q wears off wouldnt you

You need energy plus it should do decent damage anyway

[modern blaze]

it took me 120 pulls to even get rosa
i won't consider new limited 4* constellations

[tardy thunder]

ZL isn’t helping your energy I don’t think

[tardy thunder]

That’s literally 1 Yunjin pull

Since she’s free with lantern rite

[unkempt basin]

It wouldn't really be favorable since if all other members provide energy off-field you can stay on Noelle longer.
But you can ofc go and compae Yunjin counters to ZLs dmg

[modern blaze]

but anyways
i think you're better just staying the entire 10 seconds on noelle while yunjin's buff is up instead of wasting the last ~3s on swaps

delay the yunjin counter a little bit to make the most out of her burst

[tardy thunder]

It is if we’re comparing her to Zhongli

Isn’t it

[unkempt basin]

only matters for personal dmg of them each

[tardy thunder]

And being able to funnel particles to Noelle

Is important

Is why gmc is good

[unkempt basin]

All ZL particles automatically go into Noelle

[tardy thunder]

What ZL particles?

Does he make good energy?

[unkempt basin]

around the same as Albedo if his pillar hits

[modern blaze]

making the pillar hit is the hard part

without geo MC his pillar is kinda unreliable

[unkempt basin]

Ofc there is a case for Noelle ER reqs being potentially different

[tardy thunder]

Even with albedo?

[tardy thunder]

Yes

That’s what I’ve been saying

[modern blaze]

well technically albedo helps a little bit with his flower

[tardy thunder]

You still need ER with albedo

[unkempt basin]

But I wouldn't play ZL in a Noelle comp w/o a microwave setup anyway, not really worth it

[tardy thunder]

Like 132 iirc

[modern blaze]

but it doesn't cover as much as geo MC burst, not to mention they can place 2 rocks too

[tardy thunder]

Same that’s why I’m confused why this comparison is being made

[modern blaze]

yea i think even with these results i will still pair noelle with yunjin
and do the convection oven comp in the other side

it's just slightly disappointing

[tardy thunder]

How much dps increase was Yunjin giving to Noelle?

[tardy thunder]

How?

[modern blaze]

that a specialized buff was barely better than a generalist buff

[tardy thunder]

ZL is a 10% dps increase

How much was Yunjin

[modern blaze]

~16% compared to ZL's ~10%

[tardy thunder]

Gorou buff factored into Yunjin?

[modern blaze]

yep

[tardy thunder]

You should calc her damage too

[unkempt basin]

and not accounting for Noelle E and Q dmg

[tardy thunder]

Her damage should be notable with Gorou

[tardy thunder]

That’s barely anything

[unkempt basin]

Thats 20% of her total dmg

[tardy thunder]

It is?

[tardy thunder]

So how much was it counting that then

[modern blaze]

shield pop is kinda strong

but imo you can't plan your rotations around it

you have to wait like 12s for it to explode, more than eula burst

[tardy thunder]

It’s just a freebie bonus

[modern blaze]

yea

[tardy thunder]

Nothing you fish for

[unkempt basin]

freebie 90k dmg

[tardy thunder]

But if Yunjin is 16% dps increase to Noelle that’s really good I don’t see the problem

[compact girder]

just build atk Noelle. EZ

[modern blaze]

for a 4*, it is pretty decent yes
maybe with constellations she starts to shine

[tardy thunder]

16% dps increase to Noelle while being able to funnel energy to her and do decent damage herself

[modern blaze]

i don't think you can funnel to noelle

considering you want to E > Q > swap asap

[unkempt basin]

16% Noelle NA dmg is worth 64k DPR in my calcs

[tardy thunder]

E, swap to Noelle

[modern blaze]

maybe with c1 you can fit 2 Es per rotation

but that loses you some buff uptime

[tardy thunder]

If it’s a 20s rotation anyway shouldn’t you already?

[unkempt basin]

Since Noelle rots are continuous I don't think its a large issue

[modern blaze]

oh right gorou makes it a 20s rotation

[tardy thunder]

Fav lance or DM Yunjin here?

I’m curious how much damage she do

[modern blaze]

so the rotation would kinda look like a very buffed 10s half with almost no swaps and then the next 10s you QS to set up skills and battery? i think

[tardy thunder]

Im not super familiar with Noelle I only just now get her c6

@lone gust would know

[unkempt basin]

At my standards 2 Full Counters would be around 100k DPR on a Triple DEF C6 Yunjin buffed with C6 Gorou

[tardy thunder]

That’s pretty good

100k DPR plus buffing Noelle by 16%

[unkempt basin]

If you get 2 full counters out w/o wasting time, yeah

[unkempt basin]

164k effective DPR

best case

[tardy thunder]

Did you account for her cast Q damage?

[unkempt basin]

sorry 174k DPR

[modern blaze]

something like
gorou EQ > albedo E > yunjin EQ > noelle Q +10s of NAs with an E cancel in between > gorou E > yunjin E > noelle NAs until next gorou EQ

[tardy thunder]

Yeah seems right

[unkempt basin]

I'm fairly sure you actually start with Noelle bc Geo Reso and energy funneling

[modern blaze]

actually noelle's Q cast time also eats some of yunjin's buff uptime

yea, makes sense

[unkempt basin]

Maybe Gorou Q first

[modern blaze]

kinda awkward
also the only way to activate geo res is noelle's E

[tardy thunder]

I’m curious how much she increases razors damage by

[unkempt basin]

For the snapshot

certainly Gorou Q first

actually

[modern blaze]

yep

does albedo snapshot geo resonance dmg% bonus?

[tardy thunder]

No

It doesn’t work off field

And can’t be snapshotted

Only active character gets it

[modern blaze]

oh then you can save noelle's E to anicancel a NA chain, nice

[tardy thunder]

Don’t you need to Noelle E before Q since that’s what will activate the resonance?

[unkempt basin]

yeah

[modern blaze]

oh right forgot about that part

the res shred

[odd lotus]

I made some very rough /preliminary pike carry yunjin calcs. Wanted to get a few more eyes to look over the sheet. If anyone is interested, I'd appreciate it a lot! I can DM the link.

[modern blaze]

wait a minute
does yunjin counter trigger geo resonance res shred?

technically she has a shield

for like 2s but it's a shield

[compact girder]

[tardy thunder]

Link it here for all of us

[tardy thunder]

It should

[modern blaze]

that could work

[tardy thunder]

Not 100% sure if it does or not

The damage might be considered dealt when no longer shielded

[modern blaze]

i hope it does

we should be able to test with beidou now i think?

assuming they're similar

[odd lotus]

I will eventually but I want a few more people to look it over first

[tardy thunder]

Yes

[compact girder]

Its actually hilarious that this is a team with 3 characters whose only elemental reaction is creating shields, yet shield uptime is a problem.

Maybe the insane defense everyone will have together with automated pick up will make it not a problem in practice.

[modern blaze]

[compact girder]

Yeah who I am kidding

[modern blaze]

the fun thing is
we don't need to shield to survive
we need it to deal more damage

btw i think beidou's counter works a source of geo resonance

so there is hope

[compact girder]

Yeah, but every time you dodge that's one attack you didn't do. I'm not convinced babysitting shields is worth 15% dmg bonus.

[modern blaze]

it's just for the setup tbh
once you start rolling with noelle you will have a shield most of the time

[compact girder]

Yeah it should be fine in practice

[modern blaze]

for the times you don't have a shield hopefully gorou's interrupt resist will prevent knockbacks so you can ungabunga in peace

[tardy thunder]

It’s a problem only if the 4th is a geo or anemo character

If there is crystallize it’s a literal non concern

Shield up time should be roughly 100% with an element to crystallize

Like bennet

Or fischl

[modern blaze]

that too
but now that i know beidou can trigger geo resonance with her counter i think we're safe
saving noelle's shield to cancel an NA chain maybe even lets her fit in an extra NA or two inside yunjin's burst

[compact girder]

I was mostly thinking of floors that have annoying auras that pop them pretty much instantly. But yeah, it's doesn't really matter anyway.

[faint hornet]

My thing is I'm just wondering if Yun Jin's buff will pull enough weight on Noelle comps to outweight just using like Fischl/Beidou.

And mono Geo worries me.

I'd rather have a tiny bit of variety.

[nimble glade]

Question
For yunjin set
2 piece defender's 2 piece husk should be his best in slot right?

It would give more than husk

[unkempt basin]

6% DEF at the cost of downgrading 2 pieces to 4* doesn't seem like a good deal

[nimble glade]

U can make the flower and plume defender's

I wonder if the substat decrease on the def would be big tho

[unkempt basin]

Substat rolls would still suffer essentially negating the difference

So the end result would just be lower personal dmg for Yunjin with no other benefit

[nimble glade]

Understandable

[modern blaze]

less time in the mines is a benefit though

[nimble glade]

[unkempt basin]

You still have to find Defender pieces with DEF% Subs

While still needing 2 DEF Husk pieces

might aswell just get any Husk Feather/Flower with some DEF on it on the way

You can't tell me DEF Substats are hard to find

[nimble glade]

The day i entered this domain was the day hp and attack was all i saw

[radiant wagon]

any energy calcs for yunjin?

[ocean nacelle]

i think skyward spine, fav lance, and deathmatch

deathmatch because of the def

[white plinth]

does she count as being near 2 enemies for deathmatch while off field?

[radiant wagon]

kinda dumb idea but geo - yunjin ayaka - kokomi 🗿

[dark schooner]

Does ayaka even auto attack?

[tardy thunder]

Shatter

There was an idea in Yunjin mains tho about cryo Yunjin

Yunjin chongyun Jean c2 Xinqiu

Attack speed gallore

4 BS Yunjin

that team would have 35% atk speed

[odd lotus]

Okay I had a few more people look over this and probably can share here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fForhU7pUFxjIAbImvO98iRAyHp82dN-Vfca7yLuYZo/edit?usp=sharing

[balmy remnant]

C6 AAs are faster than that

[odd lotus]

Are they? After counting hitlag?

[balmy remnant]

the only footage i know/have counted with yunjin NAs with hitlag during her Ult is N1, N2, and the first hit of N3

i can see that whoever you got your frames from used the showcase videos and just took 12% off, but comparing the frames in the pyro invoker video and the showcase videos, it’s clear that the showcase videos aren’t unga bunga-ing at max speed, so you can see the animations clearer

[odd lotus]

Oh huh that’s interesting

Do you have those frames from the pyro invoker video?

[balmy remnant]

look at the difference

[odd lotus]

Oh shit

And is the ult assumedly c6?

[balmy remnant]

probably

[odd lotus]

Can I share this w yunjin mains?

[balmy remnant]

since shenhe’s ult also had C2 duration

sure, go ahead

[tardy thunder]

updated my yoimiya yunjin math to include Yoi Q, assuming you can get 4 Q procs with 3 of them bennet buffed

this is what i get now

hope my math is correct cuz this damage is really pog

[odd lotus]

Also wait so the combo 2 in the picture above, that’s not in ult, right?

[balmy remnant]

that’s from the showcase video, so yes, not in ult

[odd lotus]

Okay hmm I get what you’re saying tho

[balmy remnant]

yeah i was like “12% ATK SPD increase”

[odd lotus]

Do you have that invoker video?

[odd lotus]

Wait 283k wtf is that coming from

[tardy thunder]

Yunjin

thats how much Yoi does per N5 string with Yunjin buff

in my calc

[odd lotus]

Ohhh that’s a whole string

[tardy thunder]

yes

[odd lotus]

What stats are assumed here?

[tardy thunder]

Yoi string 199k+84k from yunjin buff

[tardy thunder]

its on the file

Stat Totals (Buffed)
3897 atk
282.3 dmg bonus (NA)
142.3 dmg bonus (Q)
88.3 CR
116 cdmg

this is t9/9/9 with an r5 rust, 4 SR, 10 average subs in cr, 10 average subs in cdmg, and 10 average subs in attack

[balmy remnant]

#791659074253094933 message

[odd lotus]

Damn

[odd lotus]

So looking at the team, I’m not a yoi main, but can you play her without a shield? I thought her NA5 was pretty important to her damage

[tardy thunder]

I don’t know how important shield is

I calced 3 N5

If the shield is super important I’ll have to replace Kazuha with Zhongli here

I’ll calc that now just to be safe

Petra Zhongli husk Yunjin

Yoi damage will be lower with Zhongli but yunjins will be higher so should be fine

Actually if it’s just interruption resistance you need, would someone that buffs poise like Xinqiu or geo MC work?

Or Gorou?

[odd lotus]

Yeah I think without a shield it’s a bit spreadsheet impact

This is more from my experience with Yanfei tho

I guess it’s not one to one, but they’re both characters who need to get through longer attack strings

[tardy thunder]

yeah i can definitely see why a shield could be mandatory here

[balmy remnant]

can’t you just N1 walk cancel with yanfei, since N1 does more damage than N2

[odd lotus]

Not if you want to vape

She’s CA focused

[balmy remnant]

yeah N1 walk into an N1C

[odd lotus]

You have to do N3C, unless you have c6 xq, then you can either alternate N2C and N3C at range, or spam N2C facetanking in melee range so xingqiu‘s orbitals touch

[odd lotus]

N1C won’t vape

[compact girder]

Juxta have you done yanfei/yunjin calcs actually

[odd lotus]

No

She would contribute so little

[balmy remnant]

why won’t N1C vape?

[compact girder]

Ive done ning stuff but im not dedicated enough to sheet it

Ah

Maybe yun would be better with ning

[odd lotus]

Yanfei has a lot of pyro app so you have to do very particular combos

In order to vape every CA

[odd lotus]

Yeah unfortunately most of her damage is in CAs

[balmy remnant]

but how is 2 N1s into a CA not the same as N2C but more damage because N1 does more than N2?

[compact girder]

Yun buff probably doesnt have the same impact on yanfei too

Since ning attacks twice

[unkempt basin]

Afaik Ning doesn't NA much and also doesn't have crazy good modifiers for Yunjin

[odd lotus]

Actually I’ve pulled of Yanfei without a shield before to get to this video but dear god magu kenki was horrible

[odd lotus]

Fair but I think you’re losing more frames doing n1wn1c, n2c is her best combo mv/s wise followed by n3c

@hollow frost actually was the one that calced the Yanfei MV/s back when she was released

[balmy remnant]

i gotta look at the frames because N1 walk feels extremely fast

like if you get the rhythm correct you can spam N1s one after another

[compact girder]

Idk im trying to make it work man

Its just depressing how yun jin doesnt work with any of my characters

[unkempt basin]

Yunjin seems awfully specific, yeah

[compact girder]

If all else fails i can do counter subdps i guess

[unkempt basin]

Not including CAs removes so many opportunities for her

[tardy thunder]

@odd lotus im getting about 12% less dps on Yoi with zhongli instead of kazuha

which is still pretty good dps

[unkempt basin]

Since Mhy pushed CA use on almost all AA users

[compact girder]

Yeah…

I doubt theyd release an NA dps ill like

:))

[odd lotus]

@balmy remnant I looked it up, there’s only a 9 frame difference between n1c and n2c

[compact girder]

I… dont know anymore

[odd lotus]

You can sort of cancel the NAs when you do her CAs

[unkempt basin]

Yoi is particularly good with her but it mgiht also be the only really worthwhile use case

[odd lotus]

Oh damn, do you have the final numbers?

[compact girder]

Do i have to pull yoi

I had her on an account and didnt really like playing her

[balmy remnant]

i’m talking about 2N1w vs N2

[unkempt basin]

Not sure if you want to pull a 5* DPS so you can use a 4* Support

[compact girder]

I…really dont

[unkempt basin]

But like its super early

the mechanic is new

Calcing scenarios is ofc good, even if it looks bleak at face value

[odd lotus]

That’s not really the issue at hand tho, it’s N1wN1C vs N2C, right? If you’re not doing her CAs you’re missing out on like all her damage

[unkempt basin]

and then we can look if we get changes

[compact girder]

Lets just pray they somehow make a character I like i guess

I doubt it

Maybe shes good with kokomi but kokomi teams really want reactive elements

[unkempt basin]

I'm personally a bit bummed that Yunjin+Itto won't be a thing, since that would've opened up an Albedo alternative

[compact girder]

Im bummed i dont like anyone she works with

Oh how i wish onfield yun jin was viable

[odd lotus]

She might be lol

[compact girder]

Really?

[odd lotus]

@compact girder check this out

[compact girder]

11-12k dps doesnt sound very good

I guess

[odd lotus]

You’ve seen my pike calcs right?

[compact girder]

Yeah

[odd lotus]

It looks like our frame data might be wrong

From the showcase

[compact girder]

Would she be faster then?

Or slower

[odd lotus]

They probably were not clicking fast enough

[odd lotus]

Yes faster

Significantly faster by the looks of it

Esp at c6

[compact girder]

Oh huh…

Ill see how this goes

[odd lotus]

This was also with like, mid investment

[compact girder]

You have my attention

[tardy thunder]

Oh I forgot geo resonance in my yoi yunjin calcs with ZL instead of Kazuha

Let me fix that real quick

[balmy remnant]

catalysts don't have hitlag right?

[odd lotus]

Nope

But you can animation cancel her normal attacks with the CA

[odd lotus]

Also I assume attempting to reverse engineer this for the rest of her combo is a fruitless effort lol

[tardy thunder]

Hmm

Someone in Yunjin mains told me N4 should be better than n5 on Yoi here

Said you can get 4 N4 vs 3 N5

That’s kinda pog

[balmy remnant]

yup, we need a full video of her NAs with hitlag both in and out of Ult

[odd lotus]

@leakers plz save us

[odd lotus]

Also hmm yeah

That would be pogs indeed

[compact girder]

Yunjin for barbara

[odd lotus]

We just don’t know about cancelling n4

[compact girder]

Trust me barbara NAs are fast

[tardy thunder]

ok i fixed my yoi yunjin zhongli bennet team math

its about 9% less damage than the kazuha version

im still on n5 tho so now ill do n4 calcs

[odd lotus]

Oo okay cool

[tardy thunder]

heres the ath

math*

[odd lotus]

Ooo cool

[tardy thunder]

tldr

48k dps, 53k dps with c6 yunjin

hmm what would ideal rotation be

Zhong E>Yoi Q>Bennet E Q>Zhong Q>Yunjin E Q>Yoi E N4x4

would that work

will zhong Q stop you from getting full bennet up time

i want a big meteor

[odd lotus]

Don’t use zhong q

[radiant wagon]

who holds petra on this team?

[odd lotus]

It’s p much always a dps loss unless you have c2 zhongli, even then you’d wanna use him before Bennett

[tardy thunder]

it wont be a dps loss if it doesnt extend your rotation at all tho would it

dont see it making your rotation longer than 18s

[odd lotus]

Wait these calcs are still with kazuha?

[tardy thunder]

no

zhong

[odd lotus]

This is what I see when I open it

[unkempt basin]

Looking at the KQM Yoi Guide it doesn't look like you really wanna run SR since ER reqs to still use Q are too high/not worthwhile. Don't know though if there has been any update to that since I don't follow Yoi stuff at all

[tardy thunder]

try this @odd lotus

[odd lotus]

Oh it was something on my end

[tardy thunder]

so cut out Q but also not have to use favonious weapons so zhong and yunjin damage should be higher?

think that should even out

let zhong use something like catch for his Q damage and Yunjin DM

[odd lotus]

Her q hits pretty weak right?

Yoi’s

Compared to the rest of her damage

[unkempt basin]

Not using Q is supposed to be bad, but like best just read it for yourself since I just glanced over it. It has an entire section on 4SR

[tardy thunder]

oh hmm

[tardy thunder]

maybe 4 bolide instead of SR then?

so we can still Q

should be fairly close in damage to SR on NAs anyway

just 10% less damage bonus and 18% less attack

she has a ton of both dmg bonus and attack already anyway

so losing that but gaining Q and being able to drop favonious weapons sounds like a W

im assuming zhong and yunjin both shouldnt need much if any ER since double geo

[balmy remnant]

my napkin frame counting says it all depends on the timing

[odd lotus]

Huh

[balmy remnant]

N1wN1C is either the same as N2C or around 10 frames slower

[unkempt basin]

Either that or Lavawalker

[odd lotus]

Ah, that doesn’t seem worth it then

[balmy remnant]

yeah, but it was worth a shot, sucks that it comes down to whether you're frame perfect on the walk cancel or not

[tardy thunder]

oh yeah cuz LW buffs Q too hmm

bolide could probably let you build ADC zhongli tho right? or think we can already do that with just geo resonance @unkempt basin

also zhongli Q and then yunjin E Q should be about 2s field time zhong plus 2s filed time yunjin right? if so that would leave about 10s bennet buff time for yoimiya

which fits just right but a bit tight

so maybe do indeed use zhong before bennet so that its less tight

[unkempt basin]

Maybe. Question is if the time taken by swapping around so much is worth it

But who am I kidding Yoi is pure ST, so ZLs Q gets easy target advantage so a Bennett buffed Pebble would likely be worth it if ZL has any form of dmg build

[odd lotus]

Zhongli q isn’t going to be worth it

[pulsar breach]

I'd argue that 4SR is more viable on Yoimiya if she's with Yunjin because:

1. None of her teammates particularly needs the atk% buff from Yoi ( Bennett, Kazuha, Yunjin)
2. More damage multipler from 4pc effect means more damage for yunjin.
3. 4SR is already competitive with 4LW in a yoimiya pp team (According to the math on kqm website). Using 4Boilde locks you to using Zhongli instead of Kazuha, which may lead to lower dps for Yoi.

[tardy thunder]

does it not hit hard if hes built for damage?

ive never calced his damage before

[odd lotus]

It does but it takes a long time

C2 zhongli is a different story bc it’ll put your shield up

[tardy thunder]

Yoi has 8s downtime

[odd lotus]

We’rent you losing some of bennett’s buff tho?

[tardy thunder]

it lined up to about exactly 10s bennet buff uptime on Yoi

so it fits in perfectly but imperfect play could cause you to lose some

[odd lotus]

Oh hmm

[tardy thunder]

but youd lose it on prob like only 1 hit

and id think a bennet buffed zhong Q should be worth it even then

[odd lotus]

Idk zhonglis meteor is like 2s long which is quite a bit

[tardy thunder]

thats what i assumed

2s on zhongli in bennet buff time and 2s on yunjin

[odd lotus]

I’ll need to check what my zhong hits with Bennett

[tardy thunder]

leaves 10s of bennet for yoimiya

[odd lotus]

I think it was only like 80k max

And I have him built for damage 4esf

[tardy thunder]

what weapon and talent level?

[odd lotus]

I think that number is with spine, lvl 8 talent

He hits harder with r5 homa but that’s kinda cheating lol

[tardy thunder]

Catch should also be harder shouldn’t it

Burst damage bonus and higher CR

But I don’t fish

[odd lotus]

Maybe? But yeah I don’t fish lol

[unkempt basin]

Yunjin most definitely favors SR, agreed. However I'm no Yoi expert and was merely pointing out that atleast so far 4SR didn't seem to be her definitive BiS and that in any case the Calc would likely need adjustment by either dropping Q (or only every second rot like SR Tao maybe), increasing ER or using another Set to maintain Q usage.

I can't tell at face value which would be the most favorable course of action here.

[compact girder]

How about

Shime for phys pikejin?

[odd lotus]

You kinda want her burst at the beginning of her rotation tho

[compact girder]

Does the burst buff + initial hit outweigh shime buff

[odd lotus]

You lose her buff without the burst

Not to mention

4sr vs 4pf2bsc you’re only losing out on 18% atk bonus

Which doesn’t scale great on her due to her low base

[tardy thunder]

what does fishing have to do with anything

more CR is higher average damage

oh

you mean fishing

not crit fishing

my brain turned off there my bad

[odd lotus]

Lmao

[tardy thunder]

heres my updated math

added N4 calcs below the N5 calcs

changed SR to LW

[odd lotus]

Oh cool

[tardy thunder]

gonna try to calc zhongli bennet and yunjin damage now

so that i have full team dps

[tardy thunder]

got 72k average damage for zhong Q if you bennet buff it

[tardy thunder]

and 45-70k dpr for Yunjin with half counter - 45k if 1, 70k if 2

now just need bennet, and Zhong E damage

too bad yunjin doesnt make a construct for ZL E

oh i forgot to give them Yoi Q buff

[tardy thunder]

ok got full team dps calcs done

[mighty dirge]

do you know the dps right now for yoi kazuha zhongli bennett with the same assumptions just for comparison sake?

[tardy thunder]

I don’t but I can run the numbers

I’ll do that right now

[mighty dirge]

thank you

[tardy thunder]

Feel free to check my math but heres what i got

the yunjin version is doing 16% more than the kazuha version; 26% more if yunjin is c6

thats...pretty impressive considering she is being compared to kazuha for buffing

i did only compare personal dps instead of team dps tho cuz i dont have kazuha damage calculated

He would need to do about 202k personal dpr to outweigh the value of yunjin buff+her damage factored for

[mighty dirge]

I see, yeah that's one of the thing I was wondering to because kazuha does have quite respectable personal damage and utility when you group up enemies under yoi burst so that the burst damage affects more enemies, but this looks very promising for sure.

[tardy thunder]

yeah this definitely doesnt invalidate kazuha in the spot instead. he has aoe damage to help make up for Yoimiyas strict ST damage

but from a pure buffing perspective Yunjin seems to be the clear winner

[balmy remnant]

@tardy thunder how did you get the NA and Q dmg bonuses? is it a combination of rust, pyro dmg bonuses, or?

[tardy thunder]

80(rust)+35(LW)+46.6(goblet)+15(bennet)+35(petra)+15.7(Yoi passive)+30 (kazuha)

yunjin version have geo resonance and 10% from yunjin c2 instead of kazuha

[balmy remnant]

ah okay, so i had the right idea, ty

[mighty dirge]

i'm seeing 15% pyro from Bennett c6 but isn't that just for claymore, sword, polearms?

[tardy thunder]

it works on bows and catalyts too even tho it shouldnt

[mighty dirge]

huh

[tardy thunder]

or so ive heard

let me test that myself just to be safe

[mighty dirge]

glad to know my decision to c6 benny keeps paying dividend

[tardy thunder]

yep it works

c6 benny is stonks

[balmy remnant]

this doesnt include Yunjin C2?

[tardy thunder]

no cuz she wasnt on the team for the kazuha version

i compared kazuha and yunjin in the same slot

[balmy remnant]

oh yeah i was still analyzing the top one, my b

[tardy thunder]

for version without kazuha it should have yunjin c2 and geo resonance instead

yunjin buff plus her own damage, if my math is correct, is providing around 329k damage

so anyone used instead of yunjin would need to be able to make up for 329k damage and the loss of shield strength from resonance if its relevant, and however much damage ZL loses without the resonance

which i think is a pretty tall task

[balmy remnant]

so the yunjin team NA dmg bonus should be 80(rust)+35(LW)+46.6(goblet)+15(bennett)+35(petra)+15.7(yoi passive)+~10(Yunjin C4)+15(geo resonance)?

does the ~10% from Yunjin C4 include C2?

[tardy thunder]

that is her c2

her c4 increases her defense

[balmy remnant]

right, right, i was just confused since it said C4 on your calcs

[tardy thunder]

oh

thats a mistake

[vale furnace]

[tardy thunder]

im gonna do Yunjin Razor math later

but i dont know how many NAs he can fit into her buff

or what the full team should be

probably Razor Yunjin Zhongli Rosaria?

[balmy remnant]

[vale furnace]

Do average razor teams want a healer?

[radiant wagon]

rosaria as cryo app makes the most sense tbh

[tardy thunder]

ZL is there

[tardy thunder]

60% phys shred total if she's c6

hmm if my counting is correct, 2 N4 should be able to get her buff

[balmy remnant]

accounting for the 0.3s cd?

wait, is this razor or yoi?

my brain is still on yoi and C2

[tame tree]

I wonder if Yunjin makes 4SR better than 4LW for Yoi

[tardy thunder]

i calced SR at first