Shenhe Thread

[silk oak]

The better mona

[pale root]

Heresy
Run kokomi in the pokemon team where she belongs

Mona best asstrologist for permafrost

[frigid stump]

or just wait till the hydro archon who will be better than both of them

[pale root]

I think before the hydro archon is out
Both would be powercrept 3 times each

[ripe cedar]

You can also this I guess
Ganyu E - Kazuha E - Shenhe Q, E (funnel to Ganyu) - Ganyu Q - Diona E (funnel to ganyu) - - Ganyu E (repeat
So the concept is to make Ganyu's 100% uptime burst keeps going forever by funneling energy to her and just refresh the quill count for her by rotationg to Shenhe every 10 seconds

[silk oak]

Atleast kokomi has 100% permafreeze uptime

Mona e is gone when u blink

[foggy orchid]

ganyu doesn't really need much energy

[ripe cedar]

Just tried that comp with Rosaria as Shenhe, it's fun, because you create a huge death zone and don't have to target like at all

it's just auto play

as long as you're inside Ganyu's rain zone, everything's dead

now I get why Shenhe has that 6s extension as her C2

[ripe cedar]

my shenhe comp simulation reaches 33k damage per second per rotation

[main delta]

what's the comp?

[ripe cedar]

shenhe / ganyu / diona / kazuha quickswap

[main delta]

seems doable enough, weapons?

[ripe cedar]

oh wait it's 34k. miscalculated some calcs
shenhe : homa, 4pc Blizzard ATK/Cryo/ATK
ganyu : hunt, 4pc Blizzard, ATK/Cryo/Crit
diona : sac, 4pc Blizzard, HP/Cryo/Crit
kazuha : sac, VV, EM/EM/EM

the rotation

damage distribution
should still be ok against mobs since ganyu's burst is crazy

shenhe 6/10/8
ganyu 10/6/8
diona 6/11/12
kazuha 6/6/6 735 EM

this is based on my own artifacts and talent levels
if it's calculated according to kqm standards, it should be better
i don't know if shenhe is better than TTDS Mona/Kokomi though

[main delta]

Bp bow for Ganyu? What about something more unconventional instead, like Mouun's bow and Skyward Spine

[ripe cedar]

hmm I do have Mouun R1

[main delta]

Oooh, ty. If you can please have some numbers on R5 too

[ripe cedar]

it looks really good on Ganyu too

alright I'll be building this bow after I finish prefarming for Shenhe

let me put some calcs

this is R1

[ripe cedar]

this is R5

lemme put sharpshooter's oath to Diona

ganyu 2x burst + shenhe 3x skill = 15 quills for ganyu?

[main delta]

That much of a difference? Nice

[ripe cedar]

you can reach 38k per second at R1 if you manage to fit another of shenhe's skill before ganyu's burst ends

why do I feel like Homa's banner is made for 2.4 with Ganyu and Shenhe instead

since wavebreaker's fin is 4* BIS for Shenhe

[main delta]

Damn, how much does C1 bump things up?

How many times can Ganyu's burst realistically hit in single target?

[ripe cedar]

I counted against primo vishap and I counted 20-ish hits

having 20 instead of 8 icicles quilled makes the damage turn into this lol

damage distribution

yeah BIS for the team is looking like
Shenhe : Homa
Ganyu : Polar Star - Mouun's Moon
Diona : Polar Star
Kazuha : Alley Flash?

[pliant solar]

EL not really necessary right cause triple cryo

[main delta]

dunno, if you're realy bursting with her every rot it's a steep climb

[foggy orchid]

iron sting r5 is ok for him

40% + 24% cryo dmg

30 bonus from shenhe and 20 from ganyu

that's well over 100% dmg bonus for him

the total 55 resis shred from kazuha and shenhe is like 35% boost to overall damage

Shenhe is brokwn

[ripe cedar]

don't you mean VV kazuha is broken?

lol

[foggy orchid]

lmao yes

[wooden stratus]

Hmmmmmm i'll pull for shenhe and with luck maybe i can also pull for ganyu

[ripe cedar]

pull Ganyu first

[wooden stratus]

Isnt shen he first banner

[ripe cedar]

if you're lucky, then you pull Shenhe

[foggy orchid]

my current team deals about 400k worth of shenhe's icy quills

[ripe cedar]

well, swipe first then pull then

[wooden stratus]

BRUH

[ripe cedar]

She n He

[wooden stratus]

Is all good

[ripe cedar]

any calcs?

[foggy orchid]

The new polearm is wasted lol

[ripe cedar]

queller is good don't get it wrong

but only shenhe wants it

different with say, Polar Star, that almost everyone can use

[foggy orchid]

crit damage is kinda needed

[ripe cedar]

pull for homa

[foggy orchid]

my ganyu gets 220 dmg bonus and 170% crit dmg

[ripe cedar]

how much crit after blizzard and cryo resonance?

[foggy orchid]

crit is 76 + cryo res

no blizzard

[ripe cedar]

noice

[main delta]

@ripe cedar is atk/atk/ark optimal or the usual adc?

[ripe cedar]

I don't really optimize so I can't answer. Personally I use atk/cryo/atk

with 4pc blizzard strayer for critting

[silk oak]

Farming for 4 strayer gonna be pain

[spiral frigate]

We still don't know how the quill atk buff thing works right?

Bc I ran calcs and you can easily get like 3k atk on her, which is like 2400 dmg bonus at talent lv 10

[main delta]

It doesn't work exactly like Bennett's buff I think

[spiral frigate]

Yes this is definitely not an atk buff

It specifies that the dmg dealt is what is increased, not the party member's atk.

I'm not sure how it is calculated, though.

It does specify that the dmg dealt is increased, and not that Shenhe is dealing her own instance of damage, meaning that it does buff the character and is not just like an Albedo tick.

I'm just wondering if anyone figured out how the increase works..

[ripe cedar]

it's dmg adding, adding the mv, like in the vs pyro lector video

should be added before any dmg% and crit is calculated

[spiral frigate]

Oooooh!

Okay very nice

So it effectively works the same way as Bennett's buff?

[ripe cedar]

not at all

bennett buff works before talent mod multiplication

[spiral frigate]

Ah gotcha

[ripe cedar]

so say, if there's a cryo character that uses DEF, bennett's buff won't affect them

but shenhe's quill does

you can see shenhe's quill as shenhe borrowing her teammates' dmg% and crit values

[spiral frigate]

Gotcha

Is it a separate instance?

Or is it added?

[ripe cedar]

no, it's added

[spiral frigate]

NICE! Okay

So this works for like purveyor of punishment and can be affected by reactions right?

[ripe cedar]

yes it does
it's only affected by melt/vape

[spiral frigate]

You mean just reverse melt

because it only works for cryo chars

[ripe cedar]

.

[foggy orchid]

I think the team lacks Xiangling

[wooden stratus]

Place xiangling everywhere

[ripe cedar]

yeah we can change diona with a better healer like bennett
shenhe can be changed to a better applicator like xingqiu
ganyu have bad dps too what about using xiangling
kazuha will have trouble with energy so let's switch him out with raiden

[foggy orchid]

omg...

[ripe cedar]

nice right

[foggy orchid]

I itch everytime I hear that teams name

[ripe cedar]

it plays really well though, you had to admit

haha

[foggy orchid]

not really, it pains me whenever I see my Xiangling lacking few energy particles

xingqiu may be a good applicator but the vape dmg isn't that high plus you won't be vaping about 40% of the hits

still tho it's one of the best out there...

[ripe cedar]

just have 246% ER bro hahahahahaha

[foggy orchid]

crit rate is addictive, once you go 75%+ you never go back

with shenhe you have way more flexibility to get all er sands on other party members

except maybe kazuha for em

so how's shenhe gonna consume her quills on second rotation?...

c1 gives her another e charge which is pretty useless

c2 increase burst duration by 6 seconds

only on c2 you can have shenhe consume her icy quills on second rotation

bruh

[main delta]

What? Another E charge is huge, more particles and more damage if you can unload them fast enough

[foggy orchid]

its just more particles in the start

similar to sucrose but on shenhe you'll always have it used on time

+6 seconds to the burst's duration is too overboard for a c2

not to mention the 15% cryo crit dmg bonus

😩

[foggy orchid]

Ayaka C6 the 298% dmg bonus would be insane with Shenhe

I wonder if it's meltable

[glacial fossil]

wavebreaker's decent on shenhe?

ping me

if oyu hve the answer

[foggy orchid]

BiS

behind a few honorable mentions

[glacial fossil]

bis???

[foggy orchid]

Homa>Signature>Wave

*R5 wave

[hidden dew]

how is the catch here

I mean how does The Catch compare with the other weapons on the list

[foggy orchid]

depends

shnehe might need some er so the catch would be perfect here

also the burst buffs make her do more damage

but decreases other party member's quill at the same time

the reduction isn't really much compared to the damage shenhe's getting

I haven't done the math tho

it's still a top 4 star weapon on her

[hallow flower]

Why are you putting homa as bis

[ripe cedar]

quick calcs put queller stronger than Homa by 3%-ish

but that's with 70/180% crit teammates

queller will be stronger with stronger teammates

[leaden holly]

So u build shenhe crit rate with homa?

[ripe cedar]

with fewer cryos / less stronger teammates, homa gives more deeps since shenhe still have her own personal damage

with stronger teammates, queller all the way

[hallow flower]

do you have a link?

[ripe cedar]

just used my excel sheet and changed the stats

wait

[foggy orchid]

Well it makes sense for queller to be stronger than Homa

otherwise Genshin's dev team is doing a crappy job

[hallow flower]

i was expecting calamity queller to do much better than 3%

[obsidian ore]

not sure if it means queller is bad, or if homa is too high of a bar to compare to 💀

[spiral frigate]

Ok so from what I've read in this channel Shenhe is insane. What makes her bad?

[hallow flower]

shes not insane

she has a niche that she does well in

but you have to do specific comps to utilize her well

[spiral frigate]

Ahhhh gotcha so the argument against her is her situationality?

[summer halo]

Hello, based on the data we have for Shenhe, is she an okay cryo support for pyro dps in melt teams?

[hallow flower]

i wouldnt use her for melt teams

what kind of team comp were you thinking about for her?

[vapid egret]

like what

[hallow flower]

3 cryo + anemo

[vapid egret]

I wonder if it would be worth dropping the freeze 20crit and cc for it

[hallow flower]

idp

some enemies you cant easily freeze and cc

[vapid egret]

true

[summer halo]

Nit me but a friend

She was hoping to use Shenhe to boost her Amber's damage

So far she does 200k in abyss

[neat geyser]

Shenhe wont buff shit for amber

[main delta]

Nope, not gonna work trust me

[neat geyser]

Her buff has conditions

And of them requires doing 'cryo' dmg to have the buff

[summer halo]

I already told her that but she's really stubborn. Do you guys have any arguments I could tell her so that she won't do something she'll regret later

[vapid egret]

just tell her it's really good

and then encourage her to roll for c1

[main delta]

Let her do said stupid thing and then learn from it

[vapid egret]

[spice osprey]

tell her amos bow refinements will buff her damage more than shenhe

[fluid belfry]

Shenhe only buffs units if they do cryo damage. Amber never does cryo damage. Done

[summer halo]

omg lmao okii okii thanks i'll try ti persuade her today but if she really wants shenhe i'll just let her. she does like asking my opinion a lot though but does not listen

anyways thank you everyone

[fluid belfry]

If she doesn’t listen she just wants shenhe and is coping hard to justify it haha

[summer halo]

Probably.

[spice osprey]

nothing wrong with that either. a buffer is bound to be useful eventually.

[neat geyser]

Tell her to read the kit properly

[vapid egret]

I feel like with shenhe rosaria will burn through all the quills before a single tick of the burst unless it's like singletarget

I can't justify it myself

[neat geyser]

4 with E Q already

[vapid egret]

doesn't her Q do 2 instances of damage too initially

[spice osprey]

the way I see it, cryo is already doing well in AoE. Giving the element boss-killing potential without relying on freeze is a decent idea.

[vapid egret]

I feel like that's when u put on your game face and reverse melt

[neat geyser]

E is 2 and Q is also 2 thus is 4 quills if u shenhe E before rosa EQ

[spice osprey]

yeah but with reverse-melt you're just playing hipster national

and you need the expensive supports anyway

[vapid egret]

you also have Xingqiu for second side

[spice osprey]

yeah, that is true

[vapid egret]

I've wanted sucrose or xingqiu both sides way more than bennett

that stupid overvape sucrose with xinyan thing is really strong too now that I've actually played it

[spice osprey]

well, it's also xiangling. One of the reasons I don't like melt ganyu is cause I use 2 top tier dps characters + bennett just for one team

or kazuha, i guess

[vapid egret]

ah makes sense if you only use ganyu

I use a pretty decked out rosaria and kaeya

[fluid belfry]

Lmao the power in that last line

[remote pebble]

absolute chad

[winged escarp]

"You expected Ganyu or Ayaka as your cryo DPS? Too bad! It was me, DIO||na||!"

[timber kiln]

.

[main delta]

but diona is a legit good quill unloader

ele% ascension and fast multihitting E

[mystic linden]

cryo dmg ascension suddenly makes sense

she was merely ahead of her time

[foggy orchid]

shen he

[wooden stratus]

Don't forget her c4

Which reduces her aiming speed

[sage nymph]

nice

[subtle token]

Shenhe will be good in melt ganyu right?

[hallow flower]

who are you going to slot out for her

melt ganyu usually runs:
ganyu + pyro + anemo + shielder

[subtle token]

Ok so i usually run ganyu venti bennett xingling

I was going to also pull kazuha in his rerun so was going to run something like ganyu kazuha bennett shenhe

[main delta]

Played Melt ganyu before. I think with Shenhe it'll be better than before, cause you can modify the rots so that you'll always get near-max duration on the taunt

[ripe cedar]

I'm gonna fit 3 of Shenhe's skill into 2 of Ganyu's burst for 15 quills on her

[random sparrow]

Do we know if Shenhe's attack increase applies to every single instance of damage that comes from Ayaka's CA?

[wooden stratus]

She should

[flat birch]

So basically Shenhe is just a damage buffer support, yeah?

[obsidian ore]

relying on taunt instead of shield is a bit

[main delta]

Almost all things will be dead by the time it runs out. You're melting CAs with 3 buffers.

[wooden stratus]

Just gonna pull shenhe and then see if i can even use her when the TC comes out

[tardy ravine]

Is there a chance that shenhe Q ticks can steal the melts from ganyu CA melts? You need to have both shenhe and kazuha Q on at the same time right?

[subtle token]

Yeah

[tardy ravine]

So not only the team doesnt have a shield but also there is a chance you might not melt the CA?

[main delta]

just not use burst at all

[tardy ravine]

[vast current]

Might as well not use Shenhe at that point.

15% damage and 15% shred is a huge part of her contribution.

[leaden holly]

Just pray shenhe Q have standard icd then

[ripe cedar]

it does in the pyro lector video iirc

[jaunty gorge]

is the skyward spine good on Shenhe? it gives high base attack, ER and crit rate and vacuum effect

[hallow flower]

yes

[jaunty gorge]

I saw talks of WB Fin further up, which didn't make sense to me cause she seems reliant on E dmg over burst. But I guess if she's just a cryo support then you want to invest in burst for quickswaps

[spice osprey]

You have to remember that she procs her own quills through her burst so burst DMG becomes important for her personal share. And since she runs ATK/ATK/ATK, DMG% increases from other sources would be a noticeable increase on her quills.

[hallow flower]

WB just has high atk

which is why she likes it

[true finch]

Hello, is it possible to team up shenhe with hutao? Thanks!

[hallow flower]

unfortunately it would not be good

[true finch]

Ohh, ok ok thanks!

[uneven hearth]

hello guys .. is there any sheet that was made for any Shenhe team !? 🤔

how much dmg she provides nd her personal dmg etc. !?

[uneven hearth]

also i wanted to ask a secondary question

regarding the pin regarding "Shenhe's FAQ" .. there is a this:

" Shenhe’s mainstats are actually extremely fluid. Once the ER requirement is met, any mix of ATK, DMG and CRIT mainstats are acceptable. Note that unlike other units, CRIT mainstats actually are marginally less favourable than ATK mainstats on the circlet. DMG goblets are more favourable than ATK goblets, although the difference is so slight to be negligible. "

i was wondering why this is the case !?

i mean if we are building her with atk-dmg main stats to begin with .. thats cuz we want her as more of a sub dps character right !? .. then why atk mainstat instead of crit on circlet !? 🤔

is it something to do with "instead of her own dmg increase .. better give her atk circlet nd make her increase icy quill buff for your entire team" thingy !?

if thats the case .. wouldnt you strugle procing favonious effect !? 🤔

[paper ice]

yes

[uneven hearth]

okay .. so i got that part correct at least

so returning to my first question .. is there any "Shenhe sheet" where we can see her dmg addition to rotation or her own personal dmg 🤔

[hallow flower]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TlIdwBqTH-YDWtIKDr3Jy1_RTjhHe_dsxgb4DG6OOd8/edit?usp=sharing

heres mine

its a bit messy though

[uneven hearth]

ohhh ... tnx .. u are a life saver .. at least found a sheet that i can check on

bro wherever i gone .. there was litterally no sheet was done

not even in Shenhe mains

[hallow flower]

just keep in mind im using very strong artifacts

for my sheet

[uneven hearth]

honestly its funny to some degree how Yunjin having more spotlight then Shenhe regarding sheets

🤔

[hallow flower]

you can adjust the stats though

[uneven hearth]

understood

tnx

[hallow flower]

shenhe sheets take more work imo

[uneven hearth]

agreed

way too many "buffs" coming here nd there

but honestly i was expecting to see 1-2 sheets done nd presented at least 🤔

[hallow flower]

il prob give it an update and clean it up sometime later

[uneven hearth]

anyways tnx for providing me with your sheet

[hallow flower]

but she isnt coming out for a while so im not in a rush

np

[uneven hearth]

also is this sheet done regarding 20 sec rotation time? 🤔

like is that 350k quill dmg thingy .. is from 2 E skills worth of ice Quills for the characters.. or 1 single E skill !?

okay .. when i checked down there .. it was from 2 E skill worth of Ice Quills

okay

[chilly hinge]

I have one for a melt rosaria comp but I'm waiting till closer to release to release it publicly, but for that one she contributes around 10-15% of her personal damage between her and rosarias, but her buffs and quills with her personal damage add up to 40-45% of the damage between the two of them

[silk oak]

Pls send anyway

I just wanna take a look at shenhe calc comps

[frail cradle]

Btw is icy quill damage a seprate damage after you hit like albedo but scales with the charater that activates it with Dmg% and Crit Damage% or is it or is it a flat increase to the said charater damage that scales with CritDmg% and Dmg%

[urban crypt]

Flat increase (just like Yun Jin's)

[ripe cedar]

nice numbers, are you calculating the interaction between shenhe's burst, VV, and ganyu burst too?

[main delta]

about 150k per quill pop seems nice

We shall see if she gets any adjustments come release day.

[next wraith]

Anybody know how calculate Icy qull buff?

[bleak furnace]

With which characters shenhe will show a good synergy?

[neat geyser]

Yunjin is fairly straightforward

Thats why

[bleak furnace]

Shenhe is still a complex character

need to wait until her release

[next wraith]

ok

[wooden stratus]

Is Shenhe good yet

[uneven hearth]

acording to KB's personal sheet (which he gave appearently gud artis to characters) .. Shenhe's Quills are doing gud addition of dmg ..

tho he himself admited that he need to "recheck" stuff nd update the sheet .. i take for a more "f2p" orianted builds nd team options .. Shenhe's Quill dmg would be lower so instead of 320k .. say it would be 250k (or maybe lower) i m just randomazing the numbers bdw dont take it to hearth as a "fact" i m not the math dud .. i m simply doing a guess .. anyways .. even if Quills gives you 250k .. heck even if its just 200k .. from remaining "buffs" of Shenhe's A4-A1 nd Q .. your charters still benefit a lot

i didnt throughtly checked entire sheet KB made yet

[wooden stratus]

I'll wait

like 1 week

for people to figure it out

then decide

if my primos go to Yae cons

or trying to 50/50 Shenhe

[bleak furnace]

Lmao

I’ve got confirm Chara so I’ll wait on shenhe because I simp her badly. If she’s not worth my primos then I’ll use it on xiao

[uneven hearth]

fake simp

[vapid egret]

so the buff portion of her kit works better on "big hits" right? since it's hit-limited

like Kaeya E as compared to Rosaria E smth like that

[vast current]

It gives the exact same value on big hits as it does on smoll hits.

As long as you use all the quills, every character gets the same MV boost.

[vapid egret]

so shenhe's damage added is the same as long as you use her "buff" up
so there's no actual buff on quills?

[vast current]

Total MV added by quill is the same regardless of the triggering source.

It's always 5*82.18% of Shenhe's ATK, or 7 for the hold E.

In that sense, moves with lower MV benefit more because Shenhe contributes more of the total MV of the move.

But as long as you proc all the quills, you'll always get 410.90%/575.26% of Shenhe's ATK per cryo damage dealing character.

And no, there's been no additional "buff" on quills beyond the ratio buff from ~76 to 82.18%.

Assuming a 2:1 ratio of Shenhe's ATK to triggering unit's ATK, you're adding 821.8%/1150.52% ATK from just the quill ATK transfer alone.

For comparison, Benny adds around 1/3 of the carry's ATK. To get an equivalent 821.8%/1150.52% contribution, your carry needs to do at least 2465.4%/3451.56% raw ATK within that 10/15 second Shenhe CD window.

Shenhe scales more with # of procs (cryo damage dealers in the team) whereas Benny scales more with carry's raw MV. Add on Shenhe's DMG%, cryo%, and cryo res reduction, she excels in teams of 3+ cryo damage dealers.

Still bad, though.

[vapid egret]

this makes sense to me, thanks

[ripe cedar]

shenhe will be as bad as kok

[hallow flower]

are you implying that kokomi is bad?

[wooden stratus]

They dont even do the same thing

[uneven hearth]

kokoshko is gud at what she is supposed to do

she works pretty well as a hydro aplier + healer

[celest orchid]

what is kokoshko

[uneven hearth]

Kokomi

Its just the way i call her

Refering to all "soviet" memes done after her

[ember phoenix]

Does it look like shenhe could steal a slot in the Morgana comp or does she not outvalue any of the other supports enough to make a significant DPS improvement? Obviously subject to change etc, but just based on her current numbers and how ganyu plays. I've been trying to go though the maths a bit but

[reef oar]

What I’ve seen is not enough recharge for ganyu idk tho

[ember phoenix]

That sucks, I'm going to pull for ganyu but she'll be my only cryo DPS and I super don't want to try and get shenhe to work without at least one good cryo DPS for her. I'm flirting with a heavily invested rosaria or a very heavily invested kaeya but that definitely feels not super optimal lmao

[spiral frigate]

Soooo Ganyu C1 vs Shenhe. What are yalls thoughts

[chilly hinge]

I’m avoiding direct calcs of comparing her to competition for a slot as it relies on too many assumptions. But Shenhe does bring a good amount of extra frontloaded single target damage with her quills which is nice as Ganyu loses a bit in single target when her ult can’t stack icicles. And Shenhe is broadly synergistic with other buffers like Kazuha and Mona since damage bonus makes her quills more effective

Rosaria/Kaeya comps with Shenhe seem fine too, main issue for Rosaria is lack of maneuverability if you run melt

[ember phoenix]

Oh, rosaria/kaeya potentially being good enough is very interesting. I'm planning on investing kaeya into a phys dps as I have a spare built raiden I don't have a good team for, but landing shenhe might be enough to turn that to a cryo build

[chilly hinge]

Yeah in that case you have a lot of options. I looked into melt Rosaria with bennett and XL and Shenhe and it looks good if the lack of mobility doesn’t hold you back. And Rosaria and Kaeya and Shenhe can all be run together if the last slot is something like Jean, Kokomi or Prototype Amber Mona, though I haven’t looked at freeze or mono comps with her, it sounds like it’ll be decently synergistic though

[ember phoenix]

Super interesting stuff to think about, thanks so much for your help. I'm kind of trash at the actual game mechanics / formulas of the game but I'm trying to get better lmao. Some sort of mono comp with shenhe/kaeya/ganyu/diona might be fun to play with in the future

[vapid egret]

I will pull shenhe just so my pjc isn't useless on kaeya

since it'll be triple cryo

[ripe cedar]

I didnt luk

[bronze hull]

does anyone have a non-whale shenhe sheets

[ripe cedar]

hmmm I can actually use emblem set for shenhe...

[neat geyser]

Yep infact mhy is probably gonna use atk/atk/er emblem on trial

[vast current]

Trials give infinite energy anyways.

[wooden stratus]

OWO

Rosa kaeya shenhe might be viable??

[vapid egret]

I feel like 2bs2glad would be better than emblem

[wooden stratus]

How bout 2 bs 2 shim

Had a shim feather with cr cd atk

Roll almost everything into atk

[obsidian ore]

You mean nobless?

mihoyo almost never uses the right set for the showcases

[pastel portal]

I think it's intentional. Most of the playerbase is fairly casual and will have little knowledge of how to actually build their characters

[wooden stratus]

Isnt that like

The event chars rn

They are like

[pastel portal]

Event chars are a bit weird but ok-ish

Some trial weaps/artifact sets are just ?????

Then you see most casuals rocking the worst possible artifacts and go "ah, that's it"

I remember seeing people go for purple 4 glad on every char lmao

[vast current]

But Noblesse is actually her best set.

[main delta]

yeah, if you can fuel her 80er ass every rot

[vast current]

Rotation impact.

[leaden forge]

so i need to confirm

shenhe looking a bit weak right now?

or

because with kazuha

he was initially seen to be a bit weak but

on release

he was insane

so i need to know if like we know for a fact shenhe is bad

or if we have to wait for her release still

[main delta]

do you even have an invested cryo damage dealer?

[leaden forge]

ayaka?

[main delta]

She's better with ayaka than ganyu at least

there's a pre-release sheet done by kbphan right in this thread, search for it if you want to see some numbers

[ripe cedar]

I think Shen is better with Ganyu since Ganyu has 20% cryo buff and 100% uptime so you can swap to Shen at any time and reload Ganyu's quill stacks

[jolly shadow]

Might be a repeat question but how good is Calamity Queller as a general weapon? Is it worth getting or is it another only good on one character type of weapon?

[coral onyx]

It's not a good general weapon because Homa, Engulfing, The Catch ,PJWS and DM cover general use really well and DM only cost a battle pass(vs possibly 240 pulls?).

[jolly shadow]

I don't have PJWS or Engulfing thats why I was wondering if its a worthwhile weapon

[torpid quail]

how does shenhe's gameplay exactly work? you use E to get quills that buff 5/7 damage instances of your main cryo dps , shenhe's Q is a normal burst that deals dmg and shreds some resistances and you use the tap E twice in a rotation to restack the main cryo dps' quills?

[coral onyx]

pretty much, at C0 there'll probably be a better rotation or atleast timer on the dps that don't have a lot of cryo sources to get as much quill proc as possible
Like E at start with Shenhe and have the Kaeya/Rosaria/Diona burst start at like 7-8 sec and right after the quills are consumed, reuse E on Shenhe while cryo damage are still running
Ayaka and Ganyu having on demand cryo can just unga bunga and will spend quills fast

[vapid egret]

Kaeya and rosaria should rightfully spend quills really fast too

[ripe cedar]

chongyun too

[wooden stratus]

Mono cryo owo

[flint path]

What would be actually better for Shenhe? 4p Blizzard Strayer or 2p glad/2p shin? Or does it depend on the team around her?

[wooden stratus]

Depends

[north remnant]

!idp

[deep storm]

Depends on character
Depends on weapon
Depends on move
Depends on target
Depends on moon phase
Depends on your astrological star sign

It Depends™️

[bronze hull]

2pc shime/glad

[vast current]

[vapid egret]

In pinned messages why is "well-invested carry" specified

isn't the only thing that matters for shenhe to proc all the quills

like, there's no actual buff the quills give or additional ATK on shenhe would give no?

[pastel portal]

Because the quills are additional dmg that scale with the main carry stats

(cr, cdm, dmg%)

[timber kiln]

.

[ripe cedar]

I think one of shenhe's worst trait that without her burst, she can't proc her own quill

of course C2 "fix"es this

[sage nymph]

The 80 cost burst does hurt her a lot i think

[mystic linden]

it's pretty easy to fund when atk and er are the only stats you need

[ripe cedar]

no I mean the 8s down time fucks Shenhe's ability to proc her own quill

Is it true if you alt-switch, you use burst before technically switching?
I wonder if you can you use Calamity Queller's double atk% stack this way for xiangling? basically drop guoba, then spend 6s off-field, and then alt-switcj

[mystic linden]

why is that even a concern, her own quills won't contribute much dmg anyway

nobody ever says "oh no bennett only gets his own buff for one E every rotation"

[ripe cedar]

because if she can't proc her own quill reliably, then it's atk/atk/atk glad/shime build with er substats for the buff/debuff and skyward spine
if she can proc her own quill reliably (through E hold against grouped enemies, or C2 90% uptime, then I'm gonna give her homa atk/cryo
having shenhe while only using 3/4 of her quills because shenhe herself can't proc it reliably sucks man

[mystic linden]

i'm pretty sure cryo cup is negative team damage for every shenhe team

her burst does about 6k ticks with homa and a cryo cup, it's not worth losing out on quill damage for everyone else

[vast current]

[vapid egret]

so tldr
she doesnt do a lot of damage
she doesnt buff either like initially thought
she also loses hella effectiveness if there's above 1 target

[vast current]

[lyric glacier]

The only problem with her is her stupid aoe

I mean Ei albedo both got aoe E

Her dmg and contribution as of now is fine imo

[glacial fossil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEiQ4SqUeNE @twilit trench

[sage nymph]

i'm gonna be so triggered during his "why electro needs a buff" video

he also put Hydro as worse than Geo

[pine heron]

[mystic linden]

turns out if you have ganyu burst and shenhe quills on the same team, your total damage per target ends up the same regardless of # of enemies

[sage nymph]

why wouldn't this be the case? Shenhe doesn't do less damage the more enemies there are, it's just that most forms of damage get multiplied by the number of enemies, whereas shenhe's remains static

[hallow flower]

yep ganyu picks up the slack with aoe

its one of the reasons why i like the pairing, it makes the team more stable vs single target

where ganyu lacks

[main delta]

Stringless Ganyu in a mono cryo comp

Good news regardless though, why don't you try something more exotic like a mouun's instead?

[mystic linden]

those are the weapons i have

except for the amenoma

mine's r1 but venti + 3 cryo means ayaka needs 0 er either way

[ripe cedar]

The sisters are made for each other

[bronze hull]

can I have a link to this sheet?

[ripe cedar]

I feel like it's different with yoi or koko, shenhe will still be underused/underrated for months to come

because no one except fanatics have 3 sets of blizzard strayer and cryo-built VV to optimise her team

[mystic linden]

don't really need that much, just two sets of bliz

i have 4no all atk on shenhe and all em on venti

[bronze hull]

thanks!

ah, it says I need to request access

[mystic linden]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fKFGrvR-jCygIa0-Lc1GMqGYkMZ9fFHmHLm-qFQm5cM/edit?usp=sharing try again

[ripe cedar]

I give
homa bliz atk/cryo/atk on shenhe
sharpshooter bliz hp/cryo/crit on diona
iron sting vv em/cryo/em on kazuha
mouun bliz adc on ganyu

[ripe cedar]

huh so this sheet only counts dps per target? because ayaka's dps should doubles and triples per target right

[cursive raft]

How strong are the quills you guys are considering?

[mystic linden]

total is divided by # targets

[vast current]

[pastel portal]

I'd make a C6 spreadsheet to calculate Ayaka/Itto CA spam during Shenhe hold E duration

but until we get final numbers

it's a waste of time

[cursive raft]

C6 kazuha with chongyun > c6 ayaka

To drive shenhe

[pastel portal]

I don't have a built Chong or C6 Kaz

[cursive raft]

Good news is Chong doesn't need build

Noblesse and sac greatsword, his stats aren't that important

But yeah kaz needs high investment

[vapid egret]

yes, but this is per target

basically it's saying ganyu and swirl(1->2 target) mechanics deal more damage in aoe per target

Ayaka doesn't have those mechanics thus deals an equal amount of damage/target

shenhe doesn't have AoE therefore deals less damage/target as the number of targets go up

[coral onyx]

Oh your representation of skills / burst used and duration, rotation is neat

[desert locust]

how much particle shenhe tap and hold gives? i forgot.

[ripe cedar]

3/4 iirc

[main delta]

@mystic lindenyou might want to check your ganyu tab in the first sheet tab. I'm changing weapons and the resulting calcs are still the same

[hallow flower]

changing cell C2 in the ganyu sheet to =purecryo!C2

should fix the link

[mystic linden]

yea don't change the dark shaded cells in other sheets, even if they have dropdown lists

the only adjustable inputs are the white cells on the first page

[coral onyx]

[coral onyx]

Actually maybe Kazuha is playable instead of Chongyun

no shield but a 15 sec duration / 20 sec CD qiqi should bring enough heal for if I don't have to CA with Ganyu that much, guess I can try to calc that team

Oh that shit is proabably going to have low(or zero) damage, only Ganyu as ADC, Qiqi is clam ATK%, maybe Chongyun would be better than Kazuha to just spam NA from like sec 15 to 20 and have as much clam bubble as possible

[mystic linden]

qiqi in triple cryo still needing 200% er

that could be a pretty comfortable team though, just cycle through EQ and autoattack w/ qiqi to fill downtime

[coral onyx]

Yeah it's definitely not close to fastest clear teams but if the quills brings some needed frontload damage to quickswap Ganyu-Shenhe-Kazuha and the account has big enough artifacts set it may be enough
I'm guestimating Qiqi doing 20K+ per clam so 3.75~5k dps for Qiqi clam

[neat geyser]

Anyone with a draft shenhe rosa sheet here?

Rev melt rosa

[chilly hinge]

I have one, what do you need exactly with it?

[neat geyser]

Prelim numbers

Just dm me

I just wanna see the increase

[summer mural]

Has anyone done TF Shenhe yet

[uneven hearth]

KB did i guess 🤔 but he said that he still needed to work on it / adjust stuff for it i believe

[uneven hearth]

here is KB's sheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TlIdwBqTH-YDWtIKDr3Jy1_RTjhHe_dsxgb4DG6OOd8/edit#gid=1740139404

tho lemme say .. he said he gave "good artifacts" to charas

🤔

[summer mural]

i dont see TF there

[night ruin]

Is triple cryo (with Shenhe) + VV the only "good" way to play her? Triple cryo + Kokomi or double cryo + Kokomi + VV isn't worth it?

[cold ridge]

triple cryo gets the most out of shenhes buff but i really cant see double cryo being bad in any way

[cold ridge]

also depending on the cryo unit you are replacing with, vv might even be better than triple cryo+kokomi

its just too much idp

[night ruin]

I got Ayaka, Rosa and Kokomi built.

Them + Shenhe .

[ripe cedar]

chongyun jean shenhe ayato meta

you know, element absorption priority changing with how much your party has that element might be nice(?)

[warped terrace]

would shenhe work with ayaka

[cold ridge]

yes

[cold ridge]

tbh its prob not so copium especially in single target

[warped terrace]

how does she buff ayaka exactly

[cold ridge]

ayaka has cryo attack which trigger shenhes quills

with quills being the buff shenhe gives, ayaka benefits from shenhe

[pale root]

The more math i do on shenhe
The less decided i get

Lol

The number are pretty solid
But teambuilding feels so restrictive

[wooden stratus]

yeah

[pale root]

Supports are normally more "futureproof"

Since we will get more broken cryo dps units in the future

[wooden stratus]

doesnt the buff she gives using her E sorta all rounder tho

but to fully make use of her we gotta use her quills ofc

[pale root]

Speaking about her buffs
There is only 1 character i can see using literally all her buffs together

And its Qiqi Clam

Even the phys shred she uses

[ripe cedar]

shenhe will be good when some cryo dps would do damage based on their def or hp or sth

[wooden stratus]

qiqi support lmaO

[pale root]

I'm not saying she gets the biggest dmg spike
Just that she is literally the only one who used all of shenhe buffs at the same time

[ripe cedar]

in a way, shenhe will be a futureproof cryo support (she's more like a subdps, really but still)

[pale root]

Now that we kind of know her double banner

Shenhe and xiao oddly

Makes her weapon banner godly for her

Either pwjs or calamity are great

For her

[ripe cedar]

pjws have kinda dead passive on her tho

[pale root]

Still have high base atk

And cr substat

Good enough

[ripe cedar]

if we're talking base attack, spine is better since it also have crits and a more valuable ER

lol

[pale root]

Most f2p setup will use either fav or wavebreaker

So pwjs probably lets you run ER sands and still have a reasonable atk

Its not calamity

But its good enough

Dunno

[ripe cedar]

true f2p setup should run chongyun kaeya shenhe barbara and I think they have good enough energy

[pale root]

Unless you go PJWS main dps shenhe

[ripe cedar]

yeah I mean jade spear is of course a great weapon

pjws main dps is viable if you use ganyu burst then swap to shenhe, do 7 hits and only thrn use her E while staying on field at the same time

[pale root]

Yeah yeah

My whole point is that
The second weapon is not a complete dead weight

Like most of the skywards

[ripe cedar]

and the reverse is also true lol
calamity is great for ciao but the passive's kinda ded

[ripe cedar]

agreed

[vast current]

Lithic spear.

[wintry bramble]

How good is Shenhe for someone who doesn't own Ayaka or Ganyu?

Can she work with rosaria and kaeya?

[pale root]

Yes

She gets exponentially better based on the investiment of the hypercarry

Of rose/kaeya are cracked on artis
She is great

[cold ridge]

more stacks getting consumed in more targets also doesnt help her

[uneven hearth]

dont expect PJWS with queller for Shenhe's weapon banner .. mihoyo never did a weapon banner that rate's up same weapon type .. nd i honestly dont think they would do that .. well firsts can always happen but dont hope much

we already had banners where we didnt get the "rate up character's" signature weapon

like Zhongli rerun was without Vortex Vanquisher .. Albedo without Summit Shaper etc.

[pine heron]

[uneven hearth]

so PJWS probs wont appear with queller

[pale root]

Both albedo and zl are justifiable without their signature weapon
Since they got horribly powercrept
Even for 4* choices

But mihoyo is inconsistent as fuck
So idk
Can be either

[main delta]

well putting vv with amos is one way to nosedive the wep banner's rev

[pale root]

VV literally kills the banner entirely

[main delta]

and homeless+amos is way too stacked, unless they consider ganyu now "balanced" enough

[pale root]

Nosedive is optimism

If we are going hopium overdrive
In theory could be amos + mistsplitter
Since FS appeared without kazuha

And follows the same logic as
Donut + PJC and Stoneshredder + Harp
A weapon that only works on the specific character + a universally good one

[tawdry depot]

Could someone point me to an English translation of Shenhe's weapon details?

[burnt thicket]

https://genshin.honeyhunterworld.com/db/weapon/w_3407/?lang=EN

[wooden stratus]

Time to spend 1 year in BS

🤡

[pale root]

1hr for shenhe oficial moveset swing the tides of the crowd

Let the simpage begin

(not that we dont know already the moveset, but mihoyo knows how to angle those camera shots)

[wooden stratus]

LESGO

[ripe cedar]

10 minutes!

[bleak furnace]

9 mins

[wooden stratus]

Mmmmm

Shenhe

[median isle]

is shenhe not recommended if u dont have cryo dps? or can she be a dps?

[main delta]

if you don't have at least an invested cryo dps already skip

[median isle]

damn its so hard since i love her jp va

[wooden stratus]

I sorta can clear abyss 36 consistently so im just pulling waifus rn

[median isle]

Same

ill pull shenhe to support future cryo archon COPIUM

[cerulean wraith]

press hold gen
https://imgur.com/vMBvsS8
https://imgur.com/Et89gPk

[pliant solar]

Maybe they lowered the cd on release

Wasnt it 3/4 in the beta

[cerulean wraith]

yeah. its 2/3 press 3/4 hold

[pliant solar]

Its doomed

[harsh wagon]

wait so did the particle gen get nerfed?

[cerulean wraith]

no its just as expected

[harsh wagon]

2/3 for 10 second cd .... on a support .... yikes 😦

guess she can't feed enough for ganyu burst

[cerulean wraith]

maybe the cd lowered nothing is set in stone

[vast current]

[harsh wagon]

is it confirmed from beta that the quills are single target?

[proven fern]

this is confirmed from the description

[craggy adder]

i was told shenhe to have a team with 2 cryo char so 3 cryo + 1 hydro?

smth like: shenhe ayaka ganyu kokomi/mona?

[main delta]

most people are leaning on 3 cryo + 1hydro/anemo atm

[craggy adder]

oki so she is contesting kazuha position sorta?

[bleak furnace]

for cryo dps

yes

[vast current]

You can run both.

[bleak furnace]

what's the plan with ganyu combined with ayaka

off field burst?

[main delta]

Can you fuel 2x 80 energy burst and another 60?

[craggy adder]

is there a nice explanation in regard to her E interaction somewhere?

from what i know is each party can hit 7 times each

[main delta]

each party member, and that's the hold version

[craggy adder]

7 times proc/enemy or 7 times per party?

I assume it's the later but copiing

[main delta]

per member

[craggy adder]

rough

between shenhe and mona who is more valuable ?

[main delta]

she'll take a while to analyze tbh. Wait until 2 weeks into her banner is my rec

[wooden stratus]

Both do different things

[craggy adder]

noted

and is getting of her cons a massive boost spike

like kazuha c2?

[main delta]

from my observation? C1 is huge if you know how to unload the quills fast enough

c1 c2 both good, things aren't like early 5* cons anymore

[craggy adder]

thanks

[ripe cedar]

I'm satisfied with Shenhe's aesthetic
Hope they further take the useless phys res shred and just increase the cryo res shred to 20% or 25%

[craggy adder]

hmm

now that you remind of that

[ripe cedar]

decreasing the quill CD will make her rotation harder

the best (but unrealistic) "buff" to shenhe will be making the quill consumed on usage and not on hit
the second best is to make E gives more quills (from 5-7 to 7-9) or sth

[craggy adder]

irrc, resistance shred is only have as valuable after 0%.

[ripe cedar]

yeah it's half as valuable

[main delta]

half value below 0% yeah

[craggy adder]

so replacing kazuha with mona might not be as bad for freeze comp

[main delta]

well, you're still getting that shred plus near a goblet worth of damage

but yeah

[craggy adder]

ayaka kinda need mona

or any water

[main delta]

that's her caveat

[ripe cedar]

it's replacing 40% res and 40% dmg% plus succ with 20% crit rate and 60% dmg% plus freeze

[main delta]

and heals too if you go proto amber

wait no, that's another cata

oh wait, it is prototype amber

[craggy adder]

do we have numbers of how much she can get per e at lv 8 or 10

with certain weapon

[ripe cedar]

swords have no good support weapon
cata have amber and ttds

[ripe cedar]

2200-ish per quill at 3000 atk

[main delta]

poverty builds should be closer to 3300-3400 but yeah

if triple atk

[craggy adder]

eh

that thing can't crit?

i thought it could

[ripe cedar]

I'm trying to fit 2 set of tap E quills on 1 Shenhe burst and it's seemingly hard
like you need to E and then give 7s to burst and after that E again while her burst is still ongoing
C2 fixes this tho

[ripe cedar]

we mean 2200 added to raw damage / MV before any dmg and crit calculation

[craggy adder]

now that the number is in it's actually a pretty nice dmg buff

we can get like 46k without crit

i might run atk/atk/crit

[ripe cedar]

yeah

I'm making my Kazuha cryo too lol

I actually get a nice-ish cryo kazuha VV set
with Iron Sting and Cryo cup, I have 700 EM, 138% ER, and 25/108 crit

I'm really looking forward for Shenhe + Melt Chongyun clickbaits tho

[cedar ivy]

Will royal spear be good for shenhe? Since it has one of highiest base dmg and atk% as substat

[wooden stratus]

not worth it imo but fav lance may be good as a battery so you can go full atk(just an opinion)

[viral comet]

is shenhe's buff worth it?

[urban crypt]

Depends on the comp

[clever salmon]

what are some possible comps rn

[urban crypt]

No idea

[clever salmon]

ic

[urban crypt]

I think it's on pinned messages

[clever salmon]

don't think so

but seems like a rosria/kaeya replacement in cry comps

rosaria

[urban crypt]

You're, nothing on pins regarding her teams

She should work on any teams that want to utilize two or more cryos

Do anemo units with elemental absorption (Venti, Sucrose, Kazuha, etc) use up Shenhe's quills of they manage to absorb cryo?

[woven mantle]

yes

[cold ridge]

yea

[woven mantle]

but since they scale off em they shouldn't be able to take advantage of them particularly

i think

[urban crypt]

Oh ty

[urban crypt]

Yes I was thinking just that. They wouldn't deal much damage but at least it will contribute a bit to her damage

[woven mantle]

another issue is prob something like

building diona for damage to amplify her quills

if you have her on team

[urban crypt]

Agreed

I was thinking Shenhe would replace Diona in freeze teams

Diona and Shenhe don't seem to have good synergy

[woven mantle]

well if you can do it sure, that's ideal, but it became harder to freeze opponents with the new update

[urban crypt]

Unless you build Diona as a quill bot

[woven mantle]

and without freeze, preventing damage taken is harder

with characters like ganyu

so removing diona seems risky to me

[urban crypt]

I know, that's why I think Shenhe will only replace Diona in freeze teams

[woven mantle]

same goes for melt ganyu, you'd have to remove the shielder but that just doesn't seem ideal to me

[urban crypt]

Since freeze teams don't need that much healing in the first place

[woven mantle]

yeah but if I look at the next abyss it seems freezing is a big issue, there are bosses in both rooms

[urban crypt]

I don't think she will be good in melt Ganyu because Shenhe's ult eats off pyro

[woven mantle]

I'm thinking of shenhe as more of an alternative to freeze tactics, replacing the hydro unit

[urban crypt]

Meaning she won't be able to use the quills on herself

[woven mantle]

she should generate enough damage to outweigh the freeze loss in those cases

[urban crypt]

Oh yeah you mean mono cryo teams

Tbh I don't know much about mono cryo so I don't have any opinions on that yet

[woven mantle]

well to me freeze has been bad this abyss too because the big wolves can't really be grouped

more raw damage would be more useful

I'd replace mona with shenhe here

[urban crypt]

Hmm that makes sense

[woven mantle]

and that does seem the direction moving forward to me, they're adding many bosses to abyss

so we might see a situation where morgana isn't really meta anymore, and mono cryo is more valuable

especially as many cryo have energy issues

[urban crypt]

Even if you can't properly group enemies, I still have my reservetions whether mono cryo will be better than freeze. 20 Crit% and Mona's buff adds a lot to the team damage.

It seems mono cryo will only be the better choice on bosses, and rather niche everywhere else.

I'm no theoeycrafter though so hopefully I'm wrong

[woven mantle]

that's possible, but remember that shenhe also provides buffs outside of her damage, and while they're not quite as high as mona's, they're longer and probably more reliable

[urban crypt]

Wouldn't exactly call it reliable, since the effectiveness of the quills will depend on the number of enemies

[woven mantle]

I didn't mean the quills

I meant the cryo buffs, cryo shred, and burst/CA damage buffs

[urban crypt]

Huh it really seems that she was made with the sole purpose of being good against bosses

[urban crypt]

Oh you mean that

[reef oar]

Shenhe covers ayaka and ganyu st issues

Cause she adds a ton of st dmg

[urban crypt]

Yes, just what I was thinking

[reef oar]

But drops of at multi target stuff

[urban crypt]

She will shine against bosses

Since she encourages st and mono cryo

[woven mantle]

I just think shenhe's release makes more sense if you see her as a morgana alternative, rather than an alternative in the healer slot

because abyss is steadily becoming more dangerous

and anyway she can't really replace diona's particle production either

ideally you'd have kokomi as your hydro

and replace diona with shenhe maybe

[urban crypt]

Yes that seems good

Actually yeah, I think you're right

She doesn't seem to be a good replacement for Diona

[cold ridge]

ayaka doesnt have st issues tho

[urban crypt]

Ugh if she only generated more particles

Kinda unrelated but how does Venti with ATK/ AnemoDMG/Crit compare to EM/EM/EM?

I recall that was his best build before the EM buffs

[cold ridge]

if you have perfect subs i think adc was better

[reef oar]

It’s still his best build on slime

[urban crypt]

If the damage difference isn't that big, could it be the better build if you're using Shenhe in a freeze team?

[reef oar]

[woven mantle]

I was about to mention that

[cold ridge]

but em generally should come up higher

[woven mantle]

it's an interesting aspect

building crit on venti prob becomes more valuable

not sure about kazuha

[urban crypt]

I don't think it will be great on Kazuha because his buffs scale off of EM

[cold ridge]

you dont wanna go adc kazuha on that team im sure

[urban crypt]

And his buffs are what makes him so good

[woven mantle]

yeah prob

[urban crypt]

Are there any calcs on freeze Shenhe with crit Venti?

[cold ridge]

tbh his damage is also very very pog but i dont think crit would effect it that much

so why not get the buffs in by building em

[cold ridge]

i think there was calcs on triple cryo with venti but im not sure if its crit or not

[reef oar]

Kazuha can do adc but only if he’s a main dps

He is a bonkers main dps tho

[hallow flower]

Might have been my sheet

[urban crypt]

I don't think there are any, or at least I didn't manage to find any

[cold ridge]

ohhh yeah

[hallow flower]

Il be working on a full team calc whenever i get back home over the next few days

[cold ridge]

it was yours

[reef oar]

Ya I don’t think anyone pinned it

[urban crypt]

Also he kinda needs C6 for that iirc

[hallow flower]

That sheet was mainly to see if she can output damage on a team built with her in mind

[cold ridge]

how do you go kaz mdps with adc tho

i normally use em even for that

[hallow flower]

And how her consts scale for quill dmg

[urban crypt]

Crit main DPS kazuha is better in single target situations

Or in situations where you can't chain reactions

According to the KQM guide

[cold ridge]

i didint want to refer to it cuz i didint know much about why you did the calculations so thanks for clarifying

[cold ridge]

i know but i think chained reactions are what makes him is a good dps so i really cant think of a build where you just go adc without at least a em sands

[urban crypt]

Huh in that case he definetely would want EM

Idk, I don't know much about C6 builds tbh

[fair blaze]

Then it wouldn't be ADC, it would be EDC

[cold ridge]

okay you are right

i still cant see a reason why u would want to go ADC tho

[bold cave]

Do we know how good is Shenhe at cryo application? Her Q hits in pairs right? Do they both apply cryo? Any chance 2nd hit can reapply cryo after superconduct proc?

[frigid stump]

she has standard icd

[urban crypt]

Bad

Don't use her for cryo application

Rosaria is a better pick for that

[coral onyx]

Last video we saw she applied cryo every time it hit but we don't much about the strength of the application and it's probably one of the 2 hits that do the application

[coral onyx]

If things haven't changed since the early beta that's just wrong, she has good cryo application we don't know how good though if the burst ticks are 2.5 apart for standard ICD or her burst is special and it's 2sec
I think it was counted at 2.5 sec per tick with 2 damage hit a tick

Don't know how big of a cryo gauge it is

[bold cave]

Yea ok, just wondering if the second hit could land before the 0.9s cooldown for Raiden's E so you get both superconduct and cryo application.. but I guess the 0.9s from Raiden is a bit too short to try to beat

[urban crypt]

Hmm, I recall people saying it wasn't good

I hope you're right

[coral onyx]

Search on YouTube shenhe pyro abyss invoker, you'll see it getting frozen at every pulse of her Q with a Kokomi jellyfish running
Maybe the gauge(could be either hydro or cryo) aren't enough to keep the freeze permanently or maybe it's the zl Pilar eating some of it but it's clear that cryo is applied every pulse

[reef oar]

It’s cause of the cons

The shenhe in the video had cons

They said that in the description

[coral onyx]

What do her cons have to do with cryo application frequency on her Q?

[reef oar]

It hits more often

[coral onyx]

What? Either you read new version of her cons or Honey isn't up to date

[woven mantle]

I don't remember the strength of kokomi app but freeze lasts based on weakest app

it gets defrozen and then frozen every pulse?

[coral onyx]

Yeah we don't see the mob's health and debuffs in the video so can't say which on is failling here

[urban crypt]

Checked the vid and she does apply cryo for the most part, but she didn't apply it in one of the pulses

[coral onyx]

https://youtu.be/Ro9krQXQR3o?t=41

[coral onyx]

you just missed it

[woven mantle]

that seems pretty decent to me

[pale root]

Its because of the 3 hit rule, no?

[urban crypt]

No, she did not freeze in the second las pulse

Yes, I think it's the three hit rule

[pale root]

1(cryo),2
3,4(cryo)
5,6 (third pulse no cryo app)

[coral onyx]

I think the 1st 2 pulse it doesn't get disturb but it does after, maybe the ZL pilar crystallize or the hydro is "weak"
in anyway it should be sustainable with an absorb burst anemo of the weak one or something

[pale root]

Its normal icd

[coral onyx]

You can see the 2 characters for frozen in the frozencryo color everytime

[pale root]

Without external help
The first 2 pulses will sustain

The third will need external help

Which is totally fine

Since you should have more cryo

If you're runing shenhe

[urban crypt]

1st pulse:
1st hit - Applies cryo
2nd hit - No application

2nd pulse:
1st hit - No application
2nd hit - Applies cryo

3rd pulse:
1st hit - No application
2nd hit - No application

Repeat

I think that's what happened in the vid

Because you can clearly see there's no application in one of the pulses

Still, her cryo application is much better than I initially thought

[pale root]

Thats what i am assuming as well
Yeah

Again
Shouldnt be a problem, for a team with shenhe maintaining cryo

[coral onyx]

This video is extremely annoying to look at, it may be the case but then the 2 consecutive pulse at 0:52 and 0:54 shouldn't both freeze

[pale root]

Maintain hydro will always be harder

[urban crypt]

Hmm yes I have to say that video is not the best example

[pale root]

Yup

[urban crypt]

But she applies cryo enough to freeze consistently so it doesn't matter that much

[coral onyx]

but yeah leakers have been really careful and we have nealy no footage of the real beta

Yeah I like her chances with Kokomi to bring a sustainable freeze team

[urban crypt]

It might be annoying for melt but she's wasn't looking good for melt either way so it's not really rellevant

[pale root]

mihoyo is pushing her kit towards a mono-cryo team, tbh

which is normally permafrost

but 3cryo 1 anemo should do the trick, trading CC for moar dmg

"you dont need CC if everyone is dead" kind of logic

[coral onyx]

Oh they seems to have make everything available to make a 3+cryo team with how good Qiqi is now give her enough ER and you shouldn't possibly die so the other 3 characters needs to do enough damage and particules for 20sec rotation Qiqi for monocryo without healing issue

[pale root]

Yeah...

[urban crypt]

Yes ik, and in case she gets used in freeze you will likely bring another cryo who can freeze better

Her application isn't very rellevant, the discussion only started because someone asked if her application was good

But in an optimized team, she won't be needing her application

[pulsar tinsel]

Is there a good shenhe team damage calculator/excel?

[urban hedge]

Who else is malding with shenhe calcs cause idk how this character is even supposed to rotate

[viral comet]

i was thinking about pairing her with keqing sucrose and kokomi

[pearl magnet]

How good is shenhe compared to rosaria c6?

[viral comet]

very lacking😍

[autumn totem]

Wouldn't be surprised to see her get a stealth buff on release

[viral comet]

i hope, but ppl said the same for kokomi and yoimiya, nothing came

[pearl magnet]

Her design is really good but as a support, i dont see myself using her in any of my team

Too bad

[full lily]

but nobody came. type deal

[pearl magnet]

[frigid stump]

"nobody came"

[viral comet]

doesnt her skill compete with bennett tho? 108.43% of atk (shenhe crowned) vs 133.43 of base atk (bennett crowned)

the difference is not that bad tbh

[chilly hinge]

check pins, the damage buff mechanic conferred by shenhe is not transferred atk the way bennett's is

[vapid egret]

there's no buff

[urban crypt]

Why would you use her in that comp

[urban crypt]

Rosaria is the better support for physical DPS characters

For freeze and mono cryo, Shenhe is better

[urban crypt]

Actually, Kokomi got an emergency buff before her release

They removed the cooldown on her E hydro application

And she's pretty good rn

Tbh Shenhe isn't looking that bad, her buffs are better than Bennett's

She's just restricted to very specific teams

[vapid egret]

and enemies

[urban crypt]

True

She's better in single target situations

[vapid egret]

single target that can't be frozen*

[main delta]

which is all the cases in abyss atm

[viral comet]

idk i just refuse to build bennett

[viral comet]

can you explain what they mean in simple terms bcz i don't get it

[wooden stratus]

Because kokomi is a good support, tho yoimiya isnt the best rn, but we are getting yun jin

[viral comet]

yunjin is kinda a sneak buff for yoimiya, i just realized😭

[wooden stratus]

Well

Shes a 50-60% dmg increase for yoi

[chilly hinge]

so basically instead of just giving ATK, shenhe gives 5 or 7 instances of cryo type damage per teammate an additional multiplier from shenhe herself, which is then multiplied by the unit that's being buffed's crit stats and damage % bonus stats

[viral comet]

still a little confused 😭

[chilly hinge]

So lets say you have one cryo character who normally has 100 ATK, 100% multiplier on any instance of damage, 100% crit rate and 100% crit damage and 50% cryo damage bonus (made up numbers)

normally when you calculate damage you would multiply the 100 ATK by the 100% multiplier (100 damage to start with) then you'd multiply it by damage bonus (So the 100 damage goes up to 150) then you'd multiply it by crit damage if it were to crit (So the 150 damage goes up to 300), then you'd account for defense/resistances

So now with shenhe lets assume her quills also have a 100% multiplier and shenhe also has 100 ATK

then instead of (100 X 100%) for your basic attack multiplier you'd have (100 X 100% + 100 X 100%) for the damage multiplier before you go and add damage bonus and crit

So in this case with shenhe's quill and these made up numbers the damage would go from 300 on a crit without shenhe to 600 on a crit with shenhe since you're starting with 200 damage before damage bonus and crit are factored whereas before you only had 100

does that make sense @viral comet ?

[vapid egret]

basically shenhe deals damage when u deal cryo damage with another character, it's not a buff

[vast current]

Technically it is a buff, because it's not Shenhe doing the damage, it's the triggering character doing the damage, with Shenhe's added MV.

[vapid egret]

fancy way of saying it

in effect there is no buff

think of it as Fischl's A4 where she deals damage when u do and electro based reaction

[sinful flume]

but its nothing like that tho....

[vast current]

Again, not so, because that would mean it uses Fischl/Shenhe's crits and cryo damage bonus.

[chilly hinge]

unfortunately there isn't really a way to understand the quill mechanics without understanding the raw basics of the damage formula

[sinful flume]

the dmg literally scales with the stats of the character getting buffed
and its not a separate instance of dmg

[vast current]

The quill mechanic is unlike any other mechanic so far for elem skill.

[sinful flume]

I mean, we had XQ C4, Yoi E, Cinnabar Spindle and Redhorn that work like that already
but nothing that makes that for another unit

[vast current]

[sinful flume]

i'm still annoyed with the Yoi E and Yunjin interaction tbh

[vast current]

There's still time, they can change it.

[sinful flume]

they had to change the way Yoi E works

[ripe cedar]

but isn't Yoi E always a separate multiplier from beginning?

or is it dmg% now?

[gleaming whale]

2glad/2shime or 4blizard for Shenhe?

[main delta]

I'm using 2esf/2glad

For enough er

[ripe cedar]

both can do well imho
with chongyun you can even do 4pc glad / 4pc shime
I'm blessed with atk% substats and er% on my blizzard so I'm using it instead of glad/shime

[urban crypt]

Well, she's equally effective regardless of if the enemy can be frozen or not

It's just that freeze comps are usually better in that situation

[urban crypt]

Shenhe only buffs cryo damage

[vapid egret]

y'all really out here saying she's a better bennett

[urban crypt]

You're not going to get any buffs from her with non-cryo attacks

[vapid egret]

[viral comet]

OHHH I GET IT NOW

[urban crypt]

I said her dmg buff is higher than Bennett

Which is different

[main delta]

Yes? She doesn't lock you in a circle for one

And mobs are getting faster

[ripe cedar]

don't forget to save this week's transient resin for bathysmal vishap

[bold cave]

Do you guys think Shenhe is good with Eula? Or she's not worth as upgrade from rosaria?

[hallow flower]

Sidegrade

Pick whichever you like more

[ripe cedar]

I think Rosaria is better if you are against enemies that can't really run / disappear

[bold cave]

Is it me or Shenhe sounds a bit useless at the moment..

[ripe cedar]

you want to kinda build around Shenhe's strength and weakness instead of slotting her as a support

[earnest kestrel]

She's good with Ayaka/Ganyu.

[bold cave]

Yea but those are two of the strongest units out there, they don't really need all that much support no?

[earnest kestrel]

Yea, but that doesn't stop MHY from buffing them even further.

[main delta]

they're good but I don't see them near the leaderboard

[earnest kestrel]

Abyss leaderboard?

[main delta]

yep, she should give them a good push

[ripe cedar]

what's top meta rn? raiden hyper, raiden national?

[earnest kestrel]

Its not easy to answer that. Depends on the opponent(s).

[main delta]

hyper clears the best at dolphin investments from my seeings

[vapid egret]

raiden xlvape is great singletarget but the aoe DPS is sussy(still great)

[earnest kestrel]

Like against these monsters, Raiden is not effective, assuming electro resistance/immune.

[sinful flume]

its a multiplier for her NA MVs actually
so not exactly the same, but it affects it quite a bit
specially cause it doesnt multiplies Yunjin flat increase which is annoying

[main delta]

yeah, that's why hyper gets ahead. You can casually unload 300k-400k initial slash on aoe with no reaction setups

[ripe cedar]

oh so it's slotted before dmg% instead of after
yeah that sucks

[vapid egret]

I think hyper still beats xlvape in many setups but it should depend on the circle and knockbacks

[craggy adder]

What is hyper?

[ripe cedar]

hypercarry raiden, basically everyone buffs raiden: sara, kazuha, bennett

[ripe cedar]

I wonder if mono cryo eula that gets phys shred from c6 rosaria (25%), shenhe (15%), and herself (25%) and use 4BS for 35% crit and high cdmg can play rather comfortably

[mystic linden]

stacking res shred isn't very efficient, shenhe will be a char slot just for ~7% overall damage gain

and quill damage which eula can't proc very well

[vapid egret]

possible but energy regen going from diona to shenhe might hurt

eula diona has to compensate iirc

[viral comet]

what r good team comps including shenhe?

[mystic linden]

teams with ayaka or ganyu in them

maybe rosa

[main delta]

3 cryos + hydro (mona)

or anemo for epic gamer mode

[slow sparrow]

So replacing Diona in the Meta freeze teams?

[vapid egret]

no, replacing mona in niche scenarios

but generally 3 cryo works very different to 2 cryo

because of energy bullshit

you can have 3 cryo but if the particle gen is shit and energy cost high it might be straight up worse to replace Diona with shenhe etc

[mystic linden]

how would 3 cryo ever have energy problems

unless one of them is qiqi

all of our best energy gen chars are cryo

[craggy adder]

[full lily]

actually I agree w this. What combo of Cryo has energy issues?

[craggy adder]

Qiqi burst dps

[vapid egret]

what I mean to say is that if Diona's purpose is to battery another character as was mentioned in this case you can't just replace Shenhe with Diona straight up

which is why she replaces Mona

[craggy adder]

Diano has been kinda replace for a fair while

In Morgana team

[vapid egret]

sure, you can always run more ER and replace the character

[craggy adder]

People just opt into ayaka Ganyu and use kokomi/Mona

Because it give more dmg overall

Diano is a nice good Er shield utility but abyss now is looking for healing and a bit more survival. Not saying Diano is bad but she isn’t top pick

[vapid egret]

is that a Diona replacement or rather because those 2 just deal more damage overall than what Diona's battery is worth?

because if it's the former, Shenhe has to really outdamage the battery from Diona bc she doesn't generate much energy to my knowledge, the reasoning can't be that "Diona is replaced, so we can replace her with anything"

[craggy adder]

• Pyro lector

[vapid egret]

I don't really see that happening unless it's literally single target

[craggy adder]

If you can run ayaka Ganyu anemo mona/koko

You don’t have Er issue

I never did

[vapid egret]

so how much does that setup run to consistently burst every 20s