Shenhe Thread

[vast current]

During that time, you can use E again.

If you don’t use E again, it uses the cooldown of the first activation.

[coral onyx]

Yeah the description isn't similar to any other so I'd love to have a video from beta with it

[vast current]

If you use E again, it uses ???

[pale root]

Omg its finally 5pm

[coral onyx]

yeah but is it like a sacrificial or a new way they implemented it

[pale root]

I'm oficially on vacation
Wooo
Time to suffer waiting for shenhe even more

[vast current]

Or they could be jank and make it two instances.

That CD timer going to be wack.

[pale root]

my best guess is that they will program the laziest way possible

aka
E just refreshes the stacks, and will use the last known CD

thats my level of faith in the spaguethi programing, post Raiden+Beidou

[vast current]

Programming’s fine. Designer intent questionable.

[pine heron]

A vod was posted here before that showed c1
its an +1 charge
dunno about the intricacies of CD's doe

oh god.....

so good news

CD's don't override or reset one another
or interrupt the current CD

they do have separate CD's associated with the skill used in that charge

but you have to wait for one charge to be up before the other

like you tap then hold

first charge is 10s

second will be 15s

if you tap when 1st charge is up
gotta wait those 15s before the 2nd one comes up (which will be 10s)

idk about waiting that long for this (if its really needed to wait for both charges) tho ig several chars have to deal wit that

[vast current]

Separate instances.

That’d be cool if they both tick down simultaneously

So if you tap E and hold E, you’ll get both charges back in 15 seconds.

More than likely you’ll need to wait 25.

Can’t have nice things.

[lapis crow]

this is the case

[pale root]

If this is the case
Is c1 even usable?
It will straight break rotations

[vast current]

Separate instances, but only one CD queue.

[pale root]

Unless shenhe teams are so poweful that kills everything in a single rotation

[vast current]

[pale root]

The classic
"You dont have a problem if everything is dead"

[vast current]

I don’t care about rotation gaming.

I just want good, frequent DPS windows.

Sara + Raiden good. Shenhe bad.

[pale root]

Well
25s is not frequent for my liking

[pine heron]

yea you gotta wait 25s for tap hold

2 holds oh my LORD

30s

[pale root]

2 hold get into childe competitors

[pine heron]

[pale root]

Shenhe 2 hold E on hydro debuff domain

[pine heron]

💀

oh nah if they brought that mechanic (or back into Idk if it came) to abyss

20s for tap

30s for hold

[glass pelican]

what if we

ran XL/Shenhe/Chong

and used Shenhe buff

to m ake XL self melt on her own burst

do big dmg

[lapis crow]

@wooden stratus

[coral onyx]

You are right I couldn't find a leak beta video with the icon shown or where they actually show the C1 in action but there is this one from a "recompiled" client data thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aU6h-iPBu4

and yeah it's just an additionnal charge similarly to Xiao/ganyu/sucrose.
No Idea why they worded it that differently for her.
It's not the best case scenario for her then for that C1, it doesn't look worth much, it gives you a bit of value on your first rotation but that's it

[pine heron]

yea that was the one that got posted here

EN translation or localization probs fucked up c1 description, despite the fact they could have just copy paste from other added charge cons

[pale root]

The ability to fuck up something that was already translated 5 other times

It would be less work just copying older descriptions

[main delta]

so my melt numbers with a Blackcliff are looking decent

wait, it's 120k/210k now, forgot c2 kazuha's EM

[drifting vigil]

I had forgotten Chong E infusion persists for a couple seconds past the field's expiration

[ripe cedar]

do we know if shenhe's quill from tap + tap refreshes quills or stacks them?

[pulsar tinsel]

Is there any character that have tap/hold skill with 2 charge?

[neat geyser]

There are characters with charges

There are characters with tap and hold

[neat geyser]

ZL c1

Wait

I think thats not even a charge

Thats just additional 1 pillar

So far there like no one unless I forgot about someone

[ripe cedar]

I swear making a character polearm is just a nerf towards them

because there's no sac lance

[wooden stratus]

Xiangling

[desert locust]

has anyone talk about this kind of playstyle?.
shenhe + chongyun + 2 NA attacker.
cy E into shenhe E then quickswap all 4 of them spending the limit stack using NA on all of them then repeat.

yunjin can be good upgrade here too

NA quickswap if i may called it.

[hallow flower]

the problem is that theres no candidates for chong to give infuse that wont tank your team dps

since shenhe's quills dont do enough to allocate two units strictly to only do quill dmg

[wooden stratus]

Rosaria?

[hallow flower]

rosaria autos do low damage

usually units that do good damage with autos have self infuse and a stat steroid (ex: xiao/hutao)

sure chong will fix the infusion problem

but you still have to have a way to stack multipliers onto your auto dmg

[wooden stratus]

Yun jin

[hallow flower]

thats still opportunity cost though

its a whole unit to bring her closer to normal auto dmg

[wooden stratus]

Idfk, go cryo eula or something

[hallow flower]

phys eula already expends the stacks though

[wooden stratus]

What were we talking about again

OH I KNOW WHO

[wooden stratus]

KAEYA

[hallow flower]

you get the same situation as rosa there

not enough stat steroids

[wooden stratus]

Uhhgbbgg

Go adc diona

[hallow flower]

its just how it is rn

[wooden stratus]

Phys ganyu

[hallow flower]

no units for CY to really help

[wooden stratus]

Mona with cryo NAs

FS Noblesse support ayaka

Wait

HmmmmmM

[hallow flower]

the strongest team i can think of that actually uses CY infuse is forward melt benny with reverse melt CY burst

[wooden stratus]

If i get ayaka im running that on her

I want a reverse melt nuker

Catalyst

God i hope our first cryo catalyst is pretty

I hope shes good with shen too

[drifting vigil]

Use who you want to use

Problem solved

[obsidian ore]

Man I was building my hopes on signora being the cyro catalyst

[dark yacht]

What would be Shenhe build?

[cerulean wraith]

pins

[pale root]

we have at best 2 more weeks of possible changes right?

before the beta ends

and we are left only with stealth nerfs/buffs on release

[vast current]

buffs.

[pale root]

roo, wanna hear a insanely copium idea?

for shenhe

i still wanna try to place her in Rosaria slot for Eula,Baal

[vast current]

[pale root]

but, with 4 TF

for that sweet sweet CD reduction

on E

atk, atk, atk 4 tf

in a scale from 1 to copium, how much copium i'm inhaling?

[vast current]

[pale root]

worse case, i can always slot her with Ganyu and call it a day later

but i've got to try this

[vast current]

Does TF even proc off-field?

[pale root]

it doesnt

but while she is casting her shit, Baal E is proccing

thats like 2~3s

and if you go back to Shenhe, between Eula Q rotation and Baal Q rotation, hopefuly E is up again

Like something:
Baal E
Shenhe E-hold, Q wait a bit for 3rd tic if necessary
Eula, E,Q, full burst rotation
Shenhe E-hold
Baal E,Q

[vast current]

If Eula is your only cryo damage then it’s not worth it to run Shenhe, imo. Rosa damage contribution is better.

[pale root]

well, i wouldnt count herald of frost as cryo dmg either

the healer slot is Clam Qiqi

its triple cryo, but the cryo dmg is minimal

somehow

[pale root]

its also 80 energy on everyone + baal
So the Wavebreaker whatever its called is on max stacks

[vast current]

3 cryo but still no energy.

[pale root]

well, Baal solves every energy problem of the universe

Sky Pride Eula + Baal i'm already looping bursts without help of the supports regardless

so even if shenhe produce -2 particles

i'm fine

[wooden stratus]

What's the reasoning behind 4BS for Shenhe as a recommended artifact set? Does the 15% cryo and 20-40% CR multiply her own quill buff stacks to offset the additional 36% attack that Ayaka/Ganyu would be getting?

[vast current]

4BS would be for Shenhe’s own personal damage.

And I would consider 4P noblesse over 2P glad/wawa.

• 36% attack is a smoll contribution relative to the triple ATK artifacts you’re already running, PLUS her signature polearm ATK buffs if you’re whaling for that.

+20% ATK for the carries is better.

[wooden stratus]

Yeah thats why I said 36% additional. It's already up in the 300%+ damage stat for shenhe

[vast current]

4BS does nothing for the quill contribution, current prevailing expectation is the quills are added as additional MV for the carries and use their DMG and crit stats.

4BS is purely for Shenhe’s own damage contribution from her E and Q.

[wooden stratus]

multiply her own quill buff stacks
Yeah the personal damage from Shenhe's quills is offsetting the damage loss from the main carries by going BS

[wooden stratus]

What damage loss

Sheet where smh

[wooden stratus]

BS give no attack% but buffs personal CV and ele%
Glad+Shime is 36% damage into quills

your quills are less powerful if you dont have 36% more attack

[vast current]

Teeny bit less powerful.

[lapis crow]

where sheet

[pastel portal]

36% "tiny bit"

[lapis crow]

glad + shime is 36% ATK, not 36% damage into quills

[pastel portal]

Well, it has almost 100% scaling at lvl 13

so...

[lapis crow]

and?

[lapis crow]

and why are you using T13 as an example

[vast current]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1LbmNNHCMV_hDdogWSPdZ5B0_iweX3q8Jk1YciziiKRE/edit

[lapis crow]

need access

[vast current]

Unlocked.

I would press that +20% ATK to carry for 12 seconds is better than +9.39% quill damage.

[lapis crow]

but you're going off based on percentages

[vast current]

Is that not how relative comparisons should be made?

If you consider 5 quills, the 36% adds about 1500 MV total per proccer per 10 seconds. So that’s 150 MV per second.

Assume base carry ATK of 800, for roundsies.

[lapis crow]

you need a more fleshed out sheet to show how +20% ATK to the carry and ig +20% to shenhe's burst is going to compare to just buffing shenhe's quills more

[vast current]

20% ATK is 160, you would need to do one 100% ATK scaling attack per second for 4P noblesse to be better than 2p glad/wawa, from a quill buffing perspective. Once the quills are consumed, Noblesse is strictly better.

I’m going to say your carry does more than 100% ATK per second.

And that should more than make up for any incremental dps gain shenhe gets from the +36% atk.

Let’s not forget Noblesse’s +20% Q damage as well.

Quills also stop contributing after they are consumed, and I hope I don’t need math to convince you Noblesse’s 12 second duration is greater than quill uptime.

There’s maffs and then there’s reasonable assumptions.

[pastel portal]

because it's an easy example

[lapis crow]

it still turns out to only be around 9-10% increased quill dmg so

[vast current]

!remindme switch artifact conversions to Noblesse.

[lapis crow]

your reasonable assumptions only get you so far

[pastel portal]

10% is a lot tbh

but time will tell

[vast current]

Within the context of this analysis, I believe my assumptions are adequate and practical.

[lapis crow]

yet they still don't give an exact, clear difference between 4NO and 2Glad/2Shime, it's just assumptions, hence they only got you so far

[vast current]

I don’t need an exact number to show Noblesse is better.

[lapis crow]

you do

[vast current]

Nah.

[mystic linden]

they happen to be pretty accurate, better than someone asking a question, not willing to do the full sheet themselves, and dismissing reasonable approximations because they don't understand estimation techniques

[vast current]

I can show a number greater than 160 is greater than 150.

maffs.

I don’t need to show specifically 183.48295 > 150.

Because maffs.

[chilly hinge]

Keep in mind a lot of teams will have someone else also possibly want to use 4 noblesse (for example Diona or Mona or Bennett) so it may be more efficient to use another set. Also calcing out Shenhe damage in google sheets is painful since you have to map out the quills, so I wouldn’t start calcing it lightly

[vast current]

[chilly hinge]

But still please don’t feelscraft when it comes to things that can be mathed out

[mystic linden]

keep in mind that kazuha might not be a great buffer if you already have 4vv on someone else o the team

no duh, if you're making the 4no to 2glad/2shime comparison in the first place it can be assumed you don't have 4no on the team already

just because "quill calcs are hard" don't assume nobody has already done them and dismiss valid reasoning for comparing sets

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Amez07c7nYaqhG8520HcgJhlQ5hd6kVwtFkscJ8Z94Q/edit?usp=sharing

knock yourselves out

[chilly hinge]

I’m just saying it shouldn’t be the first thing someone tries sheeting if they’re new to it

[vast current]

Insufficient maffs! Invalid conclusion!

TC PENALTY! 40 MINUTES IN THE TIMEOUT BOX!

[chilly hinge]

Also please use more respectful language when debating your point

[vast current]

I have done the requisite amount of maffs to support my point. I don’t believe I put in any feels factor in my calcs. But interpret as you will.

[mystic linden]

"theorycrafting team" members can't take a L so it comes back to us not playing nicely enough

[chilly hinge]

You aren’t considering the complexity of teamwide damage that makes comparing the artifact sets a lot more nuanced than the napkin math you provided. Though I am glad that you provided some evidence to support your opinion

[lapis crow]

literally just asking for clearer numbers and i get disrespect

[mystic linden]

you weren't asking for clearer numbers, you were dismissing answers that were already very clear

out of your own ignorance

[wooden stratus]

[drifting vigil]

[mystic linden]

it's like saying you need a full calc to show that going from TL8 to TL10 gives you 12.5% more damage from that ability

percents are math

they're not feelscrafting

[drifting vigil]

You're a percent

[vast current]

I’m a percent!

Did you guys know 3% of the panda population are actually ducks?

And that 0.1% of that panda duck population is cake?

[native mountain]

And one of them is a whale.

[vast current]

[vast current]

[native mountain]

[frigid stump]

hey at least you're not a whale

like a certain "panda"

[native mountain]

[vast current]

I didn’t come here to be judged like this.

[wooden stratus]

Ur a panda

U will always be judged

Like every animal

[vast current]

[woeful swan]

soo from what i'm reading here 4pc noblesse is best if you want her as cryo supp?

[vast current]

That’s my opinion, if you don’t already have a Noblesse user.

Imagine having 4P noblesse.

[frigid stump]

strongbox

[vast current]

[mystic linden]

note to self: "no duh" is too crude for our vaunted TC team

[vast current]

I’ve learned that the people who are willing to listen to reason will in the end. Insulting them generally doesn’t change their mind.

There’s always an emotional reaction when there are clashing views.

Best to let it settle.

[frigid stump]

[woeful swan]

couldn't be me

[sharp gull]

Strongbox exists u know

[woeful swan]

strongbox is a scam

u can't change my mind

[sharp gull]

I got legendary Noblesse pieces from it so can’t be all bad

[vast current]

But Yangu 300 CV.

[frigid stump]

i'd say it's not all bad if your luck is decent

[vast current]

Hecc’ you, lucker!

[woeful swan]

yeah but my luck is non-existent

if i go against the universe in a battle of luck i will lose by a landslide

[frigid stump]

just take rooVV's luck

easy

[vast current]

[short yoke]

Strongbox isn't so bad though

Eventually you get lucky

What are you doing with those unused artifacts anyway

[mystic linden]

they basically let you farm noblesse domain full time on top of farming another domain full time

assuming you have no use for bloodstained

[vast current]

NUNYA BIDNESS!

[woeful swan]

exp fodder

[mystic linden]

what does it feel like to actually have artifacts worth upgrading?

[wooden stratus]

Feels great

[vast current]

[wooden stratus]

Ew em

[cursive frost]

that's a pretty good AP flower

is the current thinking that shinhe/yunjin buffs are going to be like zhongli/itto/redhorn/spindle mechanics, where it adds flat damage based on stat% to the base dmg which is further multiplied by dmg%/crit dmg%, rather than a separate proc?

I can't say she looks that impressive, but maybe it's deceptive (outside of low stacks to utilize). Even with 15% cryo%, 15% E+Q/NA+CA%, 15% res shred, 15% cryo crit dmg(c2 only ), the additive bonus is only going to count for a few ticks of an ayaka ult or like 1 CA . Guess need to wait for more info.

[mystic linden]

it's on a 10s cd so you can do it twice, and quills go to every character separately

ends up being a solid chunk of damage w/ limited charges

[cursive frost]

mono cryo? otherwise what team is going to have 2 other users that benefit from something that only triggers on dealing cryo dmg to opponents?

secret chongyun buff

[mystic linden]

that is one of the possibilities we're looking at

[hallow flower]

im liking 3 cryo + anemo

[clever yarrow]

have people done calculations for jean/sayu as the anemo unit to provide healing since there will be no freeze proc?

[chilly hinge]

For anyone who is also recovering from ever having played League of Legends, Shenhe E is basically Nami's E but procs for cryo damage only

and doesn't slow

[clever yarrow]

does it proc from burst/skill as well or just normals?

[mystic linden]

yea

[hallow flower]

@balmy night ik you been working on CY's guide for a bit, how active is 4blizz's effect when he uses his burst?

do half of them get the 4pc bonus?

[balmy night]

Depends on the team

But 4bs isnt completely dog

Which in itself is really shocking

[hallow flower]

i was assuming 2 of the swords get the 4pc

and the other two only get half of the 4pc

if someone like kokomi was applying the hydro

[balmy night]

Kokomi isnt good yeah

2 sounds about right

[vast current]

If you're running 3 cryo + anemo, unless the anemo is , it's better to replace Shenhe with

[hallow flower]

i think that depends on a few factors and its not a cut dry replacement

if you run double anemo with kazuha

then kazuha has to beat shenhe's dmg buff and quill dmg without leveraging VV since the other anemo will have it already

shenhe:

15% cryo dmg
15% skill/burst dmg
quill damage
15% cryo shred
kazuha:
40% cryo dmg

i can see a lot of situations where shenhe is going to be doing more

[vast current]

But I wanna stack VV!

[hallow flower]

where are you getting that kazuha is a better swap in than her?

for that situation

[vast current]

I wasn't considering the other anemo would run VV.

Only time I'd run double Anemo would be with double geo, anyways.

[hallow flower]

Yeah vv is a must

[mystic linden]

i've been playing sucrose taser w/ sayu

she's just a heal button for now because only c0

eventually she'll be a 4clam heal/swirl powerhouse

hopefully

[clever yarrow]

I wonder how well a triple cryo team w/ ayaka, ganyu, shenhe, and either sayu or jean would co

you sacrifice grouping and the elemental dmg bonus of kazuha, but having some form of healing seems necessary

4 clam would def be worse than VV tho yea?

[sour oriole]

all of yous wanting to do triple cryo Ayaka without freeze

good luck missing 80% of ur burst

[clever yarrow]

not my fault cryo women make me weak

[mystic linden]

if you remove kazuha buff from this team you're left with around 1m damage

assuming sayu/jean can still contribute ~100k personal damage w/ quills

[clever yarrow]

i thought genhe wanted 2glad 2shim

and ganyu 4 bliz

but damn, 1m is like cutting the dmg in half

[mystic linden]

4 bliz yes, those were my builds

that's 1.17m total

[clever yarrow]

what is the damage w/ kaz?

[clever yarrow]

ohhh i see what you mean then

sorry was confused on what you were saying

so you lose 173k

[vagrant cargo]

If u get c6 shenhe, she will be good to very good

[mystic linden]

i'm strongly considering replacing ganyu with just about anyone else

[vagrant cargo]

But c0 shenhe????? Mmmmm.....

[mystic linden]

kokomi for freeze/heal, diona for heal while keeping some quill damage, mona for freeze and even more damage

[vagrant cargo]

C0 shenhe is more below than c0 raiden

[mystic linden]

rosaria just to be a not-5* option that does the same thing

[clever yarrow]

yeah but c0 raiden is still really good

[vagrant cargo]

Well, maybe shenhe will be the new kokomi, she needs another artifact set maybe .......

The fact is, kokomi's element is really good in the first place even with the kit shenanigans she had.

[clever yarrow]

well so is cryo

its just

The cryo element is stacked

Ganyu/Ayaka/Rosaria/Eula all really good units

hell even kaeya is decent

[vagrant cargo]

Plus she's healer and tankier. What if shenhe is healer and buffer like bennet, she will be really good.

[mystic linden]

there's still room in any freeze team for a cryo support

[clever yarrow]

I doubt they will add healing to her kit, let alone to a future artifact set

[mystic linden]

right now you can run two cryo dps but whoever isn't on field doesn't contribute that much

[vagrant cargo]

Yeah...... I bet dendro characters will slap heal, buff,shield at the same time.😂

[clever yarrow]

yeah thats a good point

maybe cryo will interact in a unique way with dendo that makes shenhe's more complex kit fit better with it

or thats copium

[main delta]

really you guys, you aren't looking at melt ganyu with Shenhe?

[clever yarrow]

so you mean ganyu/shenhe/kazuha/bennet?

[main delta]

eyep

[sour oriole]

thinking about the energy makes me shiver

[vagrant cargo]

I heard ayato is support with reducing cd in skills ....another support.....

[clever yarrow]

only prob w/ that would be no shielder

[main delta]

the only ones needing er are kaz and ben tbh. And judging from my scuffed numbers, most things will just die before the taunt runs out

[vagrant cargo]

I really want to pull shenhe if there's no ganyu rerun.... But if ganyu is here, i have to scrifice shenhe in liyue mountains

[clever yarrow]

yeah, er on bennet is p easy to get since you just run noblesse anyway, stats dont really matter too much

[sour oriole]

what is the ER calc on Shenhe?

in duo cryo

and triple cryo

ER sand?

Fav?

[main delta]

do you even need to burst every rot?

[sour oriole]

u prob dont want to burst at all in melt Ganyu

but outside of that, yeah, esp triple cryo teams

[main delta]

might as well fit in a mona/kok for that tbh, double cryo with anemo and freeze

[sour oriole]

Mona is kinda interesting with Shenhe

[hallow flower]

finally got around to adding a chongyun team

[vast current]

All those pulling Shenhe just to use quills and ult whenever the Q is up with no care for ER, please stand up.

All others, please accept your lame ducko status while remaining seated.

[mystic linden]

she seems fine on ER considering she doesn't need crit substats

needs like 70% on dual cryo teams

[main delta]

@hallow flowerHow's Skyward Spine oh her?

[hallow flower]

prob fine

gives you ER

unless you were running 3 cryo plus venti

then you dont need the ER

[balmy night]

Wait, is this only shens output?

[hallow flower]

yeah

[balmy night]

Sheeesh

Thats good shit

[hallow flower]

my calcs have been specifically for shen's personal dmg and quill dmg

because i feel like i have a decent idea of how the existing units do

[mystic linden]

those are high ceilings on the lower rows

every calc i've ever done is basically the first row of his

[vast current]

Shenhe C6.

[main delta]

300k+ per E pop is pretty huge no?

[hallow flower]

yeah i been pushing this as her ideal team if you are ok with playing no healer

just all of the units involved are good on their own

[vast current]

Everyone 220 CV is pretty huge, too.

[mystic linden]

her E doesn't pop, it's added to the other char's damage number

[hallow flower]

and it lets shenhe do decent dmg

[mystic linden]

and that's totaled over all chars and all hits

[main delta]

yeah, I was referring to per E usage

[hallow flower]

its higher than albedo bloom dps typically and people are somehow pogging over albedo but not shenhe's e

you just need to play this specific team for all of the magic

[mystic linden]

that's across 3 characters though

[vast current]

I dunno, I think a decently invested Albedo can hit 30k dps.

[hallow flower]

yes but she takes one slot

[mystic linden]

something like 150k from ayaka, 100k ganyu, 50k shenhe

drop either of the other cryos and it goes down

[hallow flower]

yes

venti actually does decent quill dmg also

not as much as ganyu but half isnt that bad

[mystic linden]

is that adc venti?

[hallow flower]

yeah

[mystic linden]

makes sense

[main delta]

Can you calc something like Shenhe/Ganyu/Mona/Kazuha? Pretty sure that will become one of her more popular comps.

[hallow flower]

stringless also kinda has a nice passive

[hallow flower]

not right now, but i might later

losing ayaka is kinda

[mystic linden]

i'm of the opinion she'll go better with ayaka than ganyu, if you were to only use one other cryo

[vast current]

Ayaka is the whole reason Shenhe goes C6.

[mystic linden]

20s cd slows down ganyu rotations and charged shots also aren't very fast at proccing quills

[hallow flower]

you dont need to ganyu CA in this team

you can but you are not going to do it too much

[balmy night]

That means 60k es btw

[vast current]

[hallow flower]

over 60k e's

[balmy night]

75k actually cause of proc delay

[hallow flower]

since you assume 2.5 proc rate

[vast current]

Or 50k and an occasional ult.

[hallow flower]

yeaaa

[vast current]

Trust in Albedo.

[hallow flower]

most albedos are not going to hit 30k dps

[vast current]

Most Shenhe aren’t going to be C6.

[balmy night]

Albedo cannot deal that much

[vast current]

[balmy night]

Like, i dont think even perfect subs can without a dedicated team

[hallow flower]

but shenhe can hit that much easier than albedo for that team

[mystic linden]

albedo also provides half of geo resonance and isn't restricted to supporting one element though

[vast current]

True.

Though if we’re going to compare C6s then I also get Albedo’s C6.

[balmy night]

Albedo also just doesnt crack 10k dps without a monogeo team

[vast current]

[hallow flower]

albedo's c6 doesnt uplift his e dmg much

[mystic linden]

it's nice that shenhe quills hit hard because she needs to be good enough at her niche

[balmy night]

So it balances out

[hallow flower]

its a minor boost to his e

[vast current]

It’s a decent boost to everyone else.

[true forge]

C6 is the Crystalize buff right? Doesn't seem worth it

[hallow flower]

17% dmg buff for a c6

[vast current]

You’re not worth it.

17% dmg buff for the main carry is easily 10k dps boost.

Also works for burst supports.

And isn’t cryo locked.

[true forge]

If you've got money to splurge on c6 units 10k DPS is minuscule

[hallow flower]

10k dps for a c6

[vast current]

How much DPS does Shenhe’s C6 contribute.

[balmy night]

Nah bro its not that big

[vast current]

[hallow flower]

yeah when you account for existing dmg%

its not big

[balmy night]

17% is also not snapped

[vast current]

17% dmg * crits * base MV * res shred?

[hallow flower]

its (17%+geocup+gouro+anyOtherDmg%) * crit * mv * resMod

[sour oriole]

no 17% on top of ~150-200% damage %

[hallow flower]

only for the active field character

thats nothing compared to how much shenhe gets at c6

[vast current]

[balmy night]

Ive roughly calculated c0 to c6 albedo to be around 50% total dps increase an albedo and around 4% or less on total team output

Albedo does not scale with cons well

[hallow flower]

its getting a little wearing having to contest these teamdps assumptions

a lot of the stuff pick or i have been saying has been mapped out before

[sour oriole]

throw me 3 meta Shenhe comps

just for curiosity

cos u all have done the work

[hallow flower]

shes a suitable sidegrade to c6 rosa in a eula team

the ayaka ganyu shen + venti/kaz team

and you can do a mona/koko freeze team

[sour oriole]

by how much

[pliant solar]

Any new big 5head shenhe revelations lately

[hallow flower]

deltas were like 3-5% iirc

from both directions

depending on substats

[sour oriole]

like i can see her shred covers Rosa's C6

and her quill will outperform Rosa from there

[hallow flower]

main reason the differences are so small for rosa vs shen in that particular team is that rosa's contribution occupies a smaller portion of the teams damage

shes there for energy/shred/crit

and shen gives a similar arsenal of buffs

a bonus of ayaka/ganyu for shen is that they cover for her poor aoe performance

so you can run the team agnostically vs most floor setups

[sour oriole]

and how's Shenhe for speedruns, or does she get there only with whale comps

[hallow flower]

i dont think she is a speedrun character

speedrun values frontloaded damage

in the shortest amount of frames possible

but, if the game ever has longer boss fights

then it performs well

[sour oriole]

like let me reframe the question

[hallow flower]

like any enemy that is expected to take a long time to fight

[sour oriole]

does Shenhe replace Bennet in speedrum comps involving Ayaka or Ganyu

[hallow flower]

have not done work on that yet

[vast current]

Bennett.

[hallow flower]

i would have to clamp rotations down to like 10 secs

and calc the total team damage

which would take a while

[sour oriole]

the use case for that is

if you're a WR speedrunner

and Shenhe displaces Benny completely

and she is BiS cryo buffer

but even then Bennet is still useful for things like melt trigger

[hallow flower]

i dont think you would use her in speedruns

since a lot of the speed run meta is using multi element teams for reaction chaining

or eula + raiden

[vast current]

More Americans on the leaderboard than I expected.

[sour oriole]

im just trying to squeeze some TC juice from Shenhe

pls give me some

cos im not doing any Shenhe squeezing

[vast current]

If there's ever content that requires continuous sustained DPS, Shenhe might edge out Benny. But still unlikely given reaction meta. Maybe with her own personal (TM) set.

[main delta]

but melt exists?

[hallow flower]

its an english discord server so thats expected

[vast current]

Not global.

[hallow flower]

im sure there are silent asia whales that do well

well its global leaderboard but the community for submitting is in english

anyone is welcomed to submit a run

[vast current]

Shenhe set 4P preserves cryo status on afflicted enemies for 10 seconds. Only works for exorcists.

I lack the funds necessary to enter that race.

[pastel portal]

I think some records may be broken by running Bennett and Shenhe in the same team

since most of those WRs are basically all burst

and Shenhe will buff exactly that

in the quickest way (tap E, so no Q animations needed)

Shenhe E > Bennett Q > Ayaka Q
nothing survives

[main delta]

I'm already getting like 300k+ per CA on Ganyu with a buffmaxx team (Shenhe/Ben/Kaz), on a Blackcliff.

She's going to get a case of Raiden/Kazuha on her reception I bet.

[cursive frost]

Why would you Benny Q after a character that scales almost solely off of attack lol. That and Ayaka Q is gonna lose the buff in 5-7 out of its 19 ticks unless it has some weird grace period ICD, overall wouldn't expect a huge buff to it. Might be able to hit a funny CA off of it

[pastel portal]

Because a well built Bennett can do quite some damage melting a Q?

Plus it's not just about the quills

It's the 15% elemental skill and burst buff gained from E

Also, you can refresh E with C1 mid Ayaka Q.

You could go Bennet Q > Shenhe E > Shenhe Q > Ayaka N1 (weap buff) > Ayaka Q

But I was talking minimal rotation time rather than optimal

Sometimes the optimal isn't the fastest depending on the dps check

https://youtu.be/lwlcEPfc_8k 5:50

[shadow rune]

The quills according to wording probably won't snapshot anws so

[pastel portal]

A good sample

[pastel portal]

Almost certain won't snapshot because they're based on current total atk

At least that's the wording

[shadow rune]

Yes so shenhe before Bennett seems fine

[pastel portal]

Melting his Q is quite good tbh

Plus the extra dmg

And then ayaya does what she does best

Now this is completely ignoring a fourth character and aiming for max dps in a very short period of time

Aka speedruns

[wooden stratus]

Ready for c6 ayaka CA showcases

[fluid belfry]

Just curious since I’ve seen the “quills don’t stack” claim multiple times but haven’t been able to find the source, did beta testers try and confirm it? Sorry if I’m missing the obvious.

[balmy night]

Because she doesnt snap

So youll have to depend on lingering stuff to work

[fluid belfry]

Why not Benny Q Shenhe E ->Q?

I know her own use of quill stacks isn’t her greatest damage but is the opportunity cost really there?

[vast nacelle]

there is a c6 gameplay on yt

[fluid belfry]

Thanks I’ll see if I can find it

Hmm is there any indication for when a character does/doesn’t have quill stacks? I’m not seeing it

[vast nacelle]

the blue glowing aura i think

[fluid belfry]

Ah it’s very slight thanks

[undone osprey]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShenheMains/comments/rci9l0/my_c0_shenhe_build_with_damage_calculations/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Looks pretty good ryt?

Above build is not mine

[hallow flower]

it looks

[wooden stratus]

Why is he using Bs in a melt comp

[wooden stratus]

If its above 10k i can cope with it

[main delta]

Is he REALLY impressed by 121k melts

[short yoke]

What is the interval

[main delta]

the thread above

[pliant solar]

look man

[neat geyser]

121k melts once in a blue moon

[main delta]

Lmao a lot of folks just know how to do basics like this and can't do anything besides building for dps

[wooden stratus]

Yes

I love wasting my calcs on useless shit tho

[woeful swan]

sooo what I'm currently thinking for my purely Ganyu support Shenhe build so far is:
4pc Noblesse with ATK/ATK/crit + Skyward Spine
Thoughts?

[main delta]

Why not triple atk?

[vast current]

If you’re wanting some damage, Cryo gobbo is better than crit circlet unless you have insane CR substats.

[woeful swan]

good point

[pale root]

I was thinking atk, cryo, atk
Yeah

[hallow flower]

cryo and atk are interchangeable

usually you are more likely to have a better atk goblet though

[proper pumice]

how good is the TC looking I'm just curious if it is worth pulling for her if I don't have a cryo dps

[main delta]

Don't bother if you don't already have an invested cryo or two
<<<< ganyu haver

[proper pumice]

I see, thanks

[night ruin]

Hello guys. First time writing here . As I already have Ayaka and Kokomi do you think it would be better for me to go for an Ayaka-Shenhe-Kokomi-Rosaria comp or wait a little longer and go for an Ayaka-Ganyu-Kokomi-VV comp?

I don't have Venti or Kazuha but I'm willing to wait for their reruns.

[hallow flower]

the 2nd team is better imo

up to you if you want to wait

[night ruin]

Ty in advance .

[hallow flower]

she has another patch cycle so it can change

[short yoke]

Wait till last day of kokomi release

[wooden stratus]

But she already released

[short yoke]

Meant to type shenhe aaahhah

[fluid belfry]

Ganyu instead of Shenhe?

Ganyu is more flexible than Shenhe but Shenhe is the better support. But if you’re saving, the best flexible support to save for is going to be Kazuha imo.

[night ruin]

Well, Kazuha won't probably get a rerun for sometime so I can try grabbing Shenhe or Ganyu (I'm on a 50-50 rn and even if I miss 50-50 on Shenhe I can get 100% Ganyu) and save for Kazuha or Venti after that.

What I'm saying is, I'll probably get one of them. Which one will be better for Ayaka comp.

They both look rly cool so I can't decide .

[fluid belfry]

For supporting Ayaka only Shenhe will do more.

Scenarios where I’d imagine Ganyu’s support in a team wide scenario might be preferable: lots of CCable enemies and you have a Venti on the team for her burst to really find value.

But it’s not like most content in the game is like that. Shenhe will buff damage more and her single target damage contribution is probably higher too in a support role.

[night ruin]

I'll go for Shenhe then and keep rolling on her even if I miss 50-50. If I don't get enough primos to get her, I'll go for Ganyu.

[woeful swan]

As it currently stands Ganyu banner is primed for right after Shenhe, so not sure how you want to save up for her if you wanna spend all of your primos on Shenhe banner

[fluid belfry]

They’ll continue spending primos when ganyu comes and hope they hit 5*

[summer mural]

[plush sleet]

If shenhe is during latern rite I can def see a Xiao Ganyu dual banner

[wooden stratus]

f2p players punching the wall right now

[vast current]

Xiao.

[hidden dew]

is shenhe better than rosaria for eula

[main delta]

how do you think her E works?

[summer mural]

TF Shenhe

[pale root]

I found one of my people!

Here
Take some copium brother

[cold ridge]

yes, just yes

[hallow flower]

she basically the same as a c6 rosaria for that team

[cobalt osprey]

What artifacts do you think she will need? Cryo dmg, crit, lots of ER, just atk%...

[hallow flower]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jvhbzYW9HumSgTqwf0DdrUxTud6DpOO2ujHLZXBPTjc/edit?usp=drivesdk

[cobalt osprey]

Ty

So for Shenhe Glad/Shime with around 180% ER then rest on ATK should work just fine, right?

[silk oak]

Around how much atk is preferable for shenhe?

Total atk with a cryo gob

2.5k+?

[cobalt osprey]

The more cryo units you will have, the better atk% goblet is over cryogoblet

If shenhe and another then cryo might be better

That also depends on how invested the other cryo is. If we're talking about a 2.3k atk 100/200 ayaka then atk goblet might be better than cryo goblet

[silk oak]

I have around 2866 atk now with 55/111 crit, er is 181

Using cryo gob 2866atk is decent?

[cobalt osprey]

how tfdoyou have those stats? Atk circlet?

And at that point IDK. Shenhe's personal dmg might be high enough to use cryo goblet

[silk oak]

Atk circlet ye

[cobalt osprey]

That aside (cant help you more, idk wich goblet is better) maybe Sayu is a good VV user for Shenhe teams. As long as you infuse her with cryo she can use her part of the stacks super fast and consistently

And if you fail to cryo infuse you can end early

[summer mural]

Join the cult

[pale root]

How do i join?

[remote pebble]

sacrifice

[summer mural]

By putting |TF Cult| in your name

[vast current]

What's a TF?

[red olive]

i assume thundering fury for E spam enjoyers

[mystic linden]

tf bennett, tf yanfei, who else can use tf?

sucrose maybe if you don't need vv on her

[pliant solar]

Shes gonna be broken today

[vast current]

Shenhe buffs soon.

[mystic linden]

no buffs, only hip windows

[chilly hinge]

Please be ready to temper your disappointment if Shenhe doesn't get additional buffs from the beta. If there are changes, please do not jump to conclusions regarding the nature of the changes without checking the math, we would prefer to keep misinformation and unsubstantiated hot takes to a minimum

[main delta]

Watch they do a 180 after like 2 weeks of the banner and Shenhe-assisted Damage Per Screenshot thumbs flood Youtube.

[mystic linden]

that's already expected for c6 ayaka whales

[pale root]

Ia shenhe even more broken yet?
Does she double Ganyu/Ayaka dmg already?

[mystic linden]

that won't be very relevant for her normal usefulness though

she buffs ayaka by more than bennett or kaz

[vast current]

Only while quills are active, right?

[pale root]

Yeah
But thats the bare minimum she should do
Being tied to only supporting cryo units

[mystic linden]

that's including quill damage vs single target

[vast current]

Fully ATK-focused Shenhe has... 4500-ish ATK?

[pale root]

With sig weapon only

[mystic linden]

i have her at 4k atk with r1 calamity at "kqm standards"

[vast current]

That's about 18500 raw MV added per 10 seconds.

[main delta]

She's 2.5-3 Bennetts worth of ATK buffs from my estimation

[vast current]

Benny's ATK buffs use the carry's MV ratios.

[pale root]

For 2 Ganyu CA or half of Ayaka burst
Without c1

Its mostly dmg per screenshot

[vast current]

A shenhe quill adds ~3800 raw MV, which is the equivalent of a 150% ATK for a 2500 ATK carry.

[main delta]

Don't you use the hold version for Ganyu CAs?

[vast current]

5/10 or 7/15, 5/10 is slightly better for DPS purposes.

[mystic linden]

baseline EQE from ayaka w/ amenoma is 254k
w/ aquila benny: 425k
w/ calamity shenhe: 364k + 113k quills

quill damage gets split between targets so it's about even w/ benny at 2 targets

[vast current]

Benny outstrips Shenhe at higher Ayaka investment.

If you're going to calc Calamity for Shenhe and Aquila for Benny, might as well calc Mistsplitter for Ayaka.

[mystic linden]

no? higher ayaka investment scales both quills and normal damage

[vast current]

But the DMG buff favors Benny's raw ATK buff.

[pale root]

Qills scaling is linear

[vast current]

Since you'd get more from the MV scaling.

[pale root]

Ayaka with mist start pending for too much bonus dmg without too much atk

So benny starts getting the edge again

But only slightly

[vast current]

Imagine using Benny anyways.

[pale root]

This is less of a problem for Ganyu
Since amos gives a fuckton of both atk and bonus dmg

So qills will always be better

[mystic linden]

mistsplitter ayaka: 312k
w/ benny: 540k
w/ shenhe: 447k + 141k

[vast current]

But ganyu's much higher relative MV compared to Shenhe's atk buff also favors Benny more.

[mystic linden]

so yea it does shift in bennett's favor

[pale root]

In reality
You will end up running both

For Ganyu

[vast current]

There's a magical ATK and MV ratio where Shenhe > Benny.

[mystic linden]

idk how you fit both in ganyu's team

[vast current]

Specifically, carry ATK*MV vs Shenhe's ATK * quill.

[pale root]

I mean
Just run ganyu,shenhe, benny, venti/kaz and call it a day

[vast current]

No shield for Ganyu?

Not a problem with Venti and succ-able enemies...

[mystic linden]

i'd never want to play melt w/ no shield

could work for speedruns

[vast current]

Reactions.

[pale root]

Hmm
Dunno

I've being running morganna
Catless with benny for so long

I dont even know what is a shield anymore

[mystic linden]

weird

i need diona just to give ganyu the energy to keep ulting on rotation

[vast current]

Y'all play Ganyu weird.

[mystic linden]

lemme guess, you play support ganyu for diluc dps

[pale root]

Well
If it works

[vast current]

No.

I play support Ganyu for Yoimiya DPS.

[pale root]

I've used diluc in abyss 1.0
As a noblesse holder / crowd control for my main dps phys Jean

[main delta]

I did melt ganyu without shields before. It's doable IF your damage is high enough that everything is dead by the time the taunt runs out

[pale root]

Well
Thats why i have 2 taunts

Mona is also there

You can have infinite taunts

[vast current]

TBH, if I run Shenhe, it'll be to buff low-MV off-field cryo support.

And maybe the occasional Ayaka meme CA.

[pale root]

Tbh
I'm more interested in shenhe for eula,baal over Ganyu

[mystic linden]

the support that supports supports

[vast current]

4-cryo life.

[pale root]

Ganyu is just plan B

The most expensive rosaria c6
Since i dont have rosaria yet

Instead
I have c450 barbruh

[mystic linden]

i have rosa but why level her when i can use ganyu burst

[vast current]

I like stepping on enemies.

I can't do that with Ganyu.

[gloomy light]

does her c1 stacks ?

[mystic linden]

we don't know, assuming no for now

[pine heron]

quills do not stack if that's what you were asking, c1 discards your current stacks with new ones according to the skill variant used

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aU6h-iPBu4

[desert locust]

if you used hold, then tap, 5 limit will replace 7?

[pine heron]

Probably

I'll have to look again to see if that gets shown in the vod

They don't do hold then tap

But based on wording and footage so far

Stands to reason tap will discard the 7 before

Dunno if rotations with c1 call for hold then tap

[vast current]

If C1 just adds a separate charge, then there's no reason to use both at the same time.

[pine heron]

Its an additional charge like Xiao and Ganyu...

Fuck...

[vast current]

Definitely no reason to use both at the same time, especially if it overwrites.

Just changes the rotation ( ).

[pine heron]

Just remebered those three have additional charge cons

And are connected to adepti

[vast current]

Hold E -> Ganyu Q -> Ayaka Q -> Hold E.

Just vomit cryo damage, why not.

[pine heron]

Cryo refill

[vast current]

If only the charges had separate, independent cooldowns.

Anyways, SHENHE BAD!

[pine heron]

Would be nice if both CD's were in effect so you wouldn't have to wait for one to get off CD for the other's CD to start

[vast current]

That's what I mean by separate, independent cooldowns.

[pastel portal]

It's meant to be a CD reduction constellation. I doubt that will be changed

It's good enough, giving you two charges means basically no E swap downtime

(Or a quill refresh)

[vast current]

Except it’s not a CD reduction constellation.

It just lets you frontload more quills.

[pastel portal]

Yeah, buff duration and CD are the same so it's not an actual CD reduction

But you get more quills, yeah

Or, rather

Allows you to cast again and "reload"

My only gripe is that C6 negates some of the C1s E hold power, leaving only the A4 buffs and buff duration as your reason to recast

[hallow flower]

c6 doesnt fix the quill count problem though

[pastel portal]

Does it for E hold

[hallow flower]

you get more, but you will still run out within 4-5 secs with ganyu/ayaka

[pastel portal]

Unless I'm misreading C6

[hallow flower]

c6 you still lose stacks from non auto based dmg

ganyu burst drains quills rather fast

same with ayaka if you cast it

[vast current]

Shimewawa

[pastel portal]

Yeah, my point is that you wouldn't use E hold when your burst is up

You'd go E tap then burst

Which isn't that good for Ganyu tbh

I'm thinking more about Ayaka here

[pastel portal]

Bc of this reason you mention

[oak tide]

hold E burst tap E attack

burst gets 7 damage charges, attacks get infinite

or just tap E tap E to keep 20s rotation

[obsidian ore]

why... why would they do that?

btw you guys should download this video while its up, youtube vids can sometimes be DMCAed

[pine heron]

Yea i have for units i care about

[pale root]

Is shenhe broken yet?

[pastel portal]

It's the other way around my friend, unless you're talking about potential combos where you dismiss A4 buffs or something like that

[stark niche]

Yeah, just C6 her and have Ayaka with mistsplitter R5

[true moss]

How much % will she benefit ganyu in freeze comp with kokomi?

Is she worth pulling?

[vestal chasm]

ask that after she comes out and the beta is over

[jagged leaf]

Has anyone done the math for her best sets yet?

I was thinking something like glad+shimenawa er/atk - cryo - atk or maybe atk-atk-atk with a er weapon

Nvm, i checked the pins, missed it when i checked first

[urban river]

How is shenhe looking for Ayaka ? Still as terrible as it started?

[clever yarrow]

Shenhe busted yet?

Monday is the day numbers get changed right

[silk oak]

Is shenhe burst ticks singletarget or aoe?

[pastel portal]

the slashes look "very" AoE, but there's no vs. multiple enemies footage so far

only ST showcases vs hilichurls/mini bosses

[coral onyx]

Where did you even read this?

[coral onyx]

It's aoe think rosaria or kazuha Q, the dot is applied twice every separate "tick" every 2-2.5 sec

[urban river]

On this very server

Initial calcs and all, pre patch

[silk oak]

Thanks brizjk and taniniver

[coral onyx]

Show me some people have been pretty conservative with not linking their shenhe TC,
But I think the consensus is she isn't going to deal big damage but she is on par or Close enough to Bennett or kazuha for cryo/freeze as a support

[urban river]

It was old i will have to dig it up but i remember them saying it wasn't worth except for auto attack Ayaka. Then again things might have changed after the number changes

[short yoke]

Can shenhe guarantee cryo resonance for Eula's burst

[coral onyx]

That's really weird Anyone should be able to throw all their quills into Ayala Q once the rotation is figured out but for playing lazy, yeah you can just spend 1 E quills with 1 ayaka E+N1C

[urban river]

Good to know, thanks for the clarification that her buff impacted so much

I guess i am leveling jean for a healer/vv slave

[silk oak]

Anyone that has shared shenhe tc here?

[silk oak]

If u know some, can u link?

[coral onyx]

Thing is it should help on high HP target while your anemo char already trivialize little mobs of target to aoe

[coral onyx]

There isn't much because it's a real pain to do. It's all team damage calc or at least her as support
But here a video koinzell did, he often is optimistic onc his assumptions but at least he showed his early

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjnxcM6cBRI&ab_channel=Koinzell

Don't expect too many TC of her before like a week before her banner

[urban river]

I don't expect much results of tc till later on the banner, she seems pretty nuanced

[vast current]

No Noblesse consideration.

[coral onyx]

Yeah she is weird, one thing that someone said about her is that her quill being procced by others makes things like mistplitter or other "whale" options pretty much double dip their gains if the driver is already good with it and the quill also gets multiplier from them

[wooden stratus]

R2amos finally worth something lmao

[silk oak]

Whales keep winning

[mystic linden]

it's no more double dipping than bennett buff

only difference is shenhe ignores your mv

[vast current]

Shenhe buffs?

[true moss]

I’m planning to either pull for shenhe / ganyu or ganyu / yae and since ganyu comes after shenhe apparently I have no choice but to think ahead lol

[wooden stratus]

Every copy of Shenhe could have been a Yae Constellation

[ripe cedar]

Every copy of Yae could have been a Childe constellation

[oak tide]

bennett damage gain is (bonus attack)*(hit MV)

shenhe damage gain is (shenhe attack)*(quill MV)

the rest should be identical for crit and dmg%

[fluid belfry]

Leaving aside the other buffs her kit offers to simplify things, correct?

[vestal chasm]

If you already don't have a Cryo dps Shenhe is not going to be useful as for Yae you will have to wait for 2.5 beta

[fluid belfry]

Join me in the Yae waiting room Kat :p

[ripe cedar]

I wonder what will Yae burst do

[neat geyser]

It will consume energy

And trigger an animation

[pliant solar]

revolutionary

[remote pebble]

[cobalt osprey]

It would be fun if Shenhe's BiS artifact set was blizzard strayer with atk%/atk%/CDmg

[wooden stratus]

BS is fine on her

But she runs atk cryo atk

[cobalt osprey]

Idk, afaik the more atk she has the stronger her quills

And her own cryo dmg shouldn't buff the quills of other chars

[wooden stratus]

Cdmg doesnt buff quills either

[cobalt osprey]

No, but I think its better for her personal dmg than Cryo dmg if you run her on a freeze team (wich you do if you run BS(

[wooden stratus]

Cryo dmg is better no?

[cobalt osprey]

Eh... IDK

Someone should do the meths

[wooden stratus]

Someone already did

[cobalt osprey]

And is atk/cryo/atk better on BS?

Sounds weird sibce CDmg should have better sinergy with both cryo res and BS 4pc

[pale root]

we didnt got beta updates today as well?

sadge

[summer halo]

hello has anyone made a theorycraft about what shenhe dps should farm in terms of artifacts and stats?

[gentle jolt]

The best Shenhe build makes use of the Blizzard Strayer set, which increases the polearm user’s crit rate when an opponent is affected by Cryo. To make matters even better, if Shenhe’s enemies are Frozen, her crit rate is increased even further.

As Shenhe’s abilities are all tailored around dealing huge amounts of damage, having a set that directly boosts CRIT DMG, CRIT Rate, ATK%, and Cryo DMG is a must for any traveler that wants to maixmise her DPS.

While other Artifact sets will likely be viable upon her release, for now, Blizzard Strayer seems to be the top contender.

4pcs nostalgic reminiscence Can be used too

Or 2 gladiator pieces + 2 blizzard strayer

[hallow flower]

building dps on shenhe is generally not recommended

[gentle jolt]

Weapons

[gentle jolt]

In my opinion, mihoyo is creating specialists to help our dps, basically they are supports that do damage + damage buff

[mystic linden]

who is this guy so wise in the ways of dps shenhe

[gentle jolt]

But, this is first 5*

[hallow flower]

yes but if you build for her personal damage you lose out on a lot of quill damage

so its generally better to just go atk/atk/atk or atk/cryo/atk with ER subs

[spice osprey]

Mihoyo is releasing Shenhe so that when they inevitably nerf freeze because it ignores too many mechanics they can point at Shenhe and be like "should've pulled".

[mystic linden]

rifthounds already nerfed freeze

[gentle jolt]

Yeah, but you can take this primary stats in DPS builds, she give damage While buffing your cryo dps

[mystic linden]

i keep freezing them mid-backflip or in other impossible to reach positions

[vast current]

Quill damage doesn’t scale as goodly, since Shenhe can only contribute ATK to boosting that number.

[gentle jolt]

This is so much strange

[vast current]

If she can get enough crits and etc to amp her own ult damage, too...

[gentle jolt]

Do they want to put 5 heroes on a team in the future?

[vast current]

But quills are also multiplied by # of proccing cryo in the party.

[hallow flower]

her personal damage is pretty poor if you build around it, which is why you build around quills

[gentle jolt]

🤔

[spice osprey]

Freeze can still deal with Rifthounds though. I feel like abyss bosses are the real freeze nerfs until they figure out a way for a more permanent solution.

[vast current]

Quills more important if you’re running 3 or more quill users, Shenhe included. If you’re just running duo cryo, may be worth investing in Shenhe’s own damage.

[gentle jolt]

What buff shenhe receive? I dont remember

The nerf and buff

[spice osprey]

And a unit that benefits every cryo character more than she does Ayaka fits right in line with their balancing efforts.

[vast current]

But if you’re just running duo cryo, why even run Shenhe?

[clever tartan]

Is triple cryo + anemo better than double cryo + hydro + anemo yet?

[hallow flower]

quill scaling bump

[gentle jolt]

Hmm

[hallow flower]

even before the buff the atk build was winning

[gentle jolt]

Well, let's wait for her. I don't think mihoyo would create such a beautiful waifu without a well thought-out skill set.

how was it with raiden

[woven mantle]

I still think biggest issue is her replacing diona in a ganyu team for example

but ig she makes freeze better in abyss with many bosses

by replacing mona

she makes the st damage pretty decent actually

[gentle jolt]

Ganyu, Shenhe, Bennet and Kazuha

We need anemo Squire

[woven mantle]

hmm it's mostly for the shield actually since stagger is annoying on ganyu but that can work ig

[wooden stratus]

Hip window

[cobalt osprey]

also they wont nerf freeze

gacha games never nerf anything

if they did the games would be better imo, as long as they balance well and not to sell

[wooden stratus]

“Nerfed” Venti succ by making the enemies immune to it

[cobalt osprey]

Yeah, well, that isn't really a nerf

They just created enemies inmune to it

By nerfing I mean, reducing Ganyu's damage by 10%, Bennet's healing... Really nerfing the strong things

And buffing other ones weak obv

[zenith citrus]

How would shenhe attack boost on veto normal and charged attacks work?

[proven fern]

it really is, just indirectly. power creep and scaling new content to the new power level is a form of nerf to older characters. it doesn't matter if you make new stuff stronger and harder (power creep) or old stuff weaker (nerf), the result is the same

[wooden stratus]

Um is like kaeya/rosaria/chonyun or just any 4 star cryo viable to run with shenhe

[main delta]

where's your healer/shielder?

[coral onyx]

Strongest reverse melt rosaria I saw was with a sucrose, Bennett+xiangling and unless you replace sucrose by shenhe shenhe probably isn't as good as her and it needs to be tested if it interfere in what you want to melt

For freeze comps it's not much what cryo she works with as much as, do you have great enough gear overall on your other 1-2 cryos

All cryo characters could use shenhe but you are probably not going to build ADC diona

[wooden stratus]

lmao ADC Aloy ez clap

[coral onyx]

Aloy is somewhat fine compared to other C0, if we get a good quick swap oriented pyro we should see some 2 cryo 2 pyro quick swap back Aloy-Chong-Diluc -X
It can probably already work really well with Bennett but people that can play it are probably fed up with playing diluc

[spice osprey]

if you're playing quickswap, HP/Cryo/Crit Diona could be worth. It's not like you need a lot of survivability with burst spams.

[pale root]

Will shenhe be the first 5* support that isnt a absolute must pull?

Mihoyo breaking new grounds

Or this will be kazuha incident part 2
Electric boogaloo

And as soon as the shenhe banner ends
People will be
Hip window rerun when

By rough math we have now
The only thing i can safely say
Is that she will 100% replace someone on any dmg per screenshot whale yt video for Ganyu/Ayaka

Nobody can come close to her buffing potential

Maybe she finds a home in speedrun comps as well

But that is a bit of a gamble rn

[frigid stump]

No character in this game is a must pull

You can get by without them

[pale root]

Sure
What i mean by must pull
Is by making the abyss trivial

Aka
Raiden, kazuha, etc

All the 5* supports

[frigid stump]

Not really

[pale root]

The dps are totally replaceable

But the supports arent

[frigid stump]

Venti is useless when things can't be sucked

And corrosion makes ZL less desirable

And those are the only other 2 supports I can think of

[pale root]

Sure
Mihoyo being nerfing the older archons in a while now

More months and there will be enemies that make raiden indesirable

Thats the expected

The "gacha games dont nerf units" lie

[pine heron]

raiden's a lil hard to be indirectly nerfed vs the other two, since her abilities are tied to Energy which is important to most units
I think the best way it just making everyone get energy back better (which isn't really needed cuz teams exists)

but like even still, you aren't using raiden on a random team to battery someone

she's in a good spot that's not actively trivializing the game

unlike the two other archons

[sage nymph]

its interesting cause zhongli isn't necessarily overpowered considering he only really gives you safety, besides some units like Eula or Ganyu that really can't afford to dodge attacks

but I think Zhongli's existence pushes abyss even further to speedrun abyss

like we wont get ones that really make actually surviving difficult and require healers and shielders more than increased damage

he just removes an entire facet of the game that abyss could be designed around

[pine heron]

I think it was mainly because you don't get damaged while his shield exists
despite the fact some teams don't want him, its a really strong thing

and zhong is still great

just you don't really need him

but its really good comfort

[sage nymph]

yeah he's the ultimate comfort character, and can increase damage for some comps

[pine heron]

venti's sorta the same way, but its just dumb as fuck

trashes trash mobs

[sage nymph]

venti is also hard to balance

very hard to get an inbetween where venti is just balanced

he's either broken or useless

[pine heron]

but then he makes every new monster be immune to CC or have ways of being CC immune

[sage nymph]

yeah exactly

not being able to nerf units is gonna cause so many problems in genshin

[pine heron]

yea his main power of CC so his ult can shred kinda goes away

[sage nymph]

people would whine a ton if Venti-Zhongli-Bennet get nerfed

but we're all gonna pay the price as they keep warping game balance in the future

[pine heron]

like theoretically you can fight around his ult but good luck