Shenhe Thread

[pliant solar]

trust

[spice osprey]

because she adds extra damage to cryo attacks

[pliant solar]

be optimistic

next week more buffs

[silent raven]

What if i put one cryo dps with hydro and shenhe?

[frigid stump]

should still work

[spice osprey]

Should be fine. Anemo infusions should also proc that extra damage.

[frigid stump]

but shenhe likes cryo

[pine heron]

yea ofc

just related in some ways

[spice osprey]

Yeah, I'm thinking of replacing mona in morgana. She's overkill in AoE anyway. In single target, with some artifact modifications, shenhe should lead that team to focus down bosses.

[oak tide]

shenhe is definitely for single target unfreezable targets in my mind

[frigid stump]

i feel like corrosion was kind of the only way they could reduce ZL's viability like making larger enemies to nerf venti

[oak tide]

they can also introduce shieldbreaker enemies

that either instantly break or do increased damage to shields

[frigid stump]

yeah but that also does nothing for healers

and they were always gonna make more healers

[whole kiln]

definitely this. She sounds like she was made purely to make cryo stronger against non-freezable bosses like maguu kenki and mechanical array

[spice osprey]

Well, Ayaka was the only cryo character who had enough juice to kill bosses. Everyone else could only do it with Benny + Xiangling (and everyone team can do it with those 2)

So meta-wise, shenhe makes sense for the element

[pine heron]

yea more or less
but shielders are still fine, just corrosion means you either run healer too or get used to dodging hounds

[lapis swan]

well this is nice, but we also have to take into effect that non-freezable bosses remove 20% crit rate from freeze teams as well

[frigid stump]

[oak tide]

there's no getting around that though

unless you just swap off blizzard strayer

[silent raven]

Can the wolfs be frozen?

[frigid stump]

yeah but now there not garbage when an enemy can't be frozen

[lapis swan]

cryo lavawalker when

[oak tide]

yes wolves can be frozen

[frigid stump]

[burnt vault]

But why run Shenhe instead of Ganyu for monocryo single target? I'm thinking of running Ayaka Ganyu Rosaria VV, is Shenhe actually an upgrade over Ganyu or Rosaria here?

[oak tide]

single target shenhe would beat ganyu's burst

[frigid stump]

2.6

[frigid stump]

why run mono cryo without shenhe

[silent raven]

That's some expensive team

[frigid stump]

if you have ganyu and ayaka you always want to run freeze

like what does rosaria offer there that isn't better than slapping a hydro there and calling it a day

other than a lack of hydro ofc

[burnt vault]

Why run mono cryo at all lol. Melt is cheaper and possibly better

[whole kiln]

crit rate and battery perhaps

[frigid stump]

when enemies can be frozen you get 20 crit rate rosa caps at 15

[lapis swan]

still gives less crit than blizzard 4 piece on freeze though

[spice osprey]

Shenhe gives you 15% cryo + 15% additive on E use + some shred + quills. She should be much better in that comp than quickswap Ganyu or Rosaria.

[burnt vault]

Is this considering Ganyu A4 tho?

[pine heron]

another thing is; how many/what kinds of mechanics are gonna be a thing that requires people to build more units than they do rn
and how many units meant to deal with those mechanics be releases, short period or long term
plus the fact: "free" units have only a few tools for those mechanics (the level of strength of those tools.... is another story)

[spice osprey]

That's just 20% additive.

[burnt vault]

I'm not trying to argue with anyone btw, just legitimately trying to compare these theoretical teams

[spice osprey]

Not bad but nothing Shenhe doesn't do also

[lapis swan]

only other purpose for mono-cryo that i can think of is removing xingqiu from some of the cryo teams to push them to be a bit more favored in abyss since you can run xingqiu on other side

[oak tide]

ganyu's burst does around 1500% if you only hit the targeted icicles

probably more like 2000% on a single target

shenhe is ~900% with 15% cryo shred

[coral onyx]

Yeah Shenhe should without doubt be better than Ganyu or Rosaria in this specific comp

[oak tide]

plus her quill damage

[frigid stump]

well at some point you can get 4 stars that can deal with those mechanics they don't necessarily need to be free

also i think these mechanics are usually just here to make recent banner characters look better

[coral onyx]

I quick wrote some of those numbers
Shenhe burst damage at C0 is initial + 10 dot : 777.64% at T10
C2 is initial + 16 dot : 1135.56% at 10

Shenhe burst damage at C0 is initial + 10 dot : 777.64% at T10
5 quills : 383.75%
7 quills : 530.32%
C0 Q + 5 quills : 1161.39%
C0 Q + 7 quills : 1314.89%

C2 is initial + 16 dot : 1135.56% at 10

C2 Q + 5 quills : 1519.31%
C2 Q + 7 quills : 1672.81%

C2 Hold E + Q (wait for 7 stacks consumed~5sec) + Hold E : 2 196,2%

Ayaka C0 Q ? = 4143.87% on an enemy cced for 5seconds
Rosaria C0 Q is 1411.2% (6hits)
Rosaria C2 1886.4% (8hits)

[pine heron]

and they can always just lock it behind MC, and still won't let you freely switch

[burnt vault]

Shenhe shred + cryo bonus only comes from burst tho, so it seems like Shenhe is only better than Ganyu? Because you need Rosaria for energy

[frigid stump]

5head mhy

[coral onyx]

Wait, Ganyu is definitely not 2000% on ST

[oak tide]

15 guaranteed icicles for around 100% damage each

35 remaining RNG icicles?

[coral onyx]

she definitely doesn't hit every 1sec in ST

[oak tide]

oh

yeah it's 10 icicles guaranteed

40 RNG

[feral garden]

[oak tide]

shenhe's E skill also does 200%

but comparing MV is kind of bad anyway since shenhe will have no crit stats or cryo dmg%

[coral onyx]

Unless you play her stacked with godlike blizzard strayer

[spice osprey]

I feel like Iron Sting and Stringless passives might be cool on Kazuha and Ventis buffed by shenhe.

[coral onyx]

and yes it's more to compare in 2 cryo comp max, if you are running pure cryo (3+1VV) you are going to want full ATK

[burnt vault]

Can't freeze bosses, I'm mostly talking about 2.4 abyss. Trying to see if pulling Shenhe is better than just running melt Ayaka on first half

[frigid stump]

wait melt ayaka

[oak tide]

20k higher than prebuff

so about a 6% total damage increase

[obsidian ore]

This is depressing to look at

[oak tide]

how many times does rosaria's lance pulse?

[coral onyx]

Yeah she isn't designed to solo or even duo carry in a dps role

[coral onyx]

4 times at C0

[oak tide]

2 extra times at c2?

[obsidian ore]

or even apply cyro with 0 icd

this burst is only there to apply the buffs and shred

[tame flare]

so you only get a 6% damage increase by putting in shenhe rather than mona/diona or something for this comp?

or just over the previous numbers

[oak tide]

no, 6% over pre-buff numbers

[coral onyx]

She is actually excellent for cryo application on her Q, every ticks does apply cryo
Kokomi+ Shenhe with a bit of EM is going to give 12+sec of perma freeze

[oak tide]

I haven't even tried to calculate team DPS

[tame flare]

by any chance have any comparison been done against those typical freeze comps

[oak tide]

this is purely shenhe's damage

[tame flare]

ohhhh

[obsidian ore]

was i misinformed about how often she inflicts cyro with her burst?

[oak tide]

or shenhe's contribution to damage

[coral onyx]

Yes?

[obsidian ore]

oops

thought it was standard ICD

[oak tide]

what's a typical rosaria statspread

1500 attack, 70 crit, 130 cdmg?

[coral onyx]

I think it is, the ticks are 2.5 sec apart or whatever is needed for the ICD I guess from the video we saw it, which is why I mentioned EM for a consistent permafreeze

[oak tide]

does rosaria run 2pc blizz 2pc noblesse

[coral onyx]

pretty sure Blizzard strayer 4p is unmatched by anything if you aren't mixing melt/superconduct

[oak tide]

115k damage plus whatever the crit buff added to the team

so shenhe should easily beat rosaria's total damage contribution

by at least double

[stark niche]

17k dps then? Not bad tbh

[oak tide]

scales very much with the investment of your other units

and this is a no healer team

I would probably expect at least 10k DPS though?

[stark niche]

Yeah, but i think you could replace venti with sayu. Less team dmg, but it would get heals and it wouldn't affect quills dmg

[oak tide]

well I based it off my venti's stats

and I built my venti crit

so it would be quite a drop in damage

but not that much

yeah, only a 30k total damage drop if I had almost no crit

so mono cryo+sayu would be like 15k DPS

and I think 2cryo+1anemo infusion would easily exceed 10k DPS

[vast current]

Assuming you can cryo infuse at all.

[pine heron]

shenhe burst is standard ICD, she got 2.5s icd, and based on pyro lector footage her burst does dmg for 2 hits every so often despite what the animation implies
https://twitter.com/Ubatcha1/status/1463955396389965828

UBatcha (@Ubatcha1)

Shenhe's Burst (Q) ICD is 2.5s or every 3 hits.

Retweets

198

Likes

6015

Twitter · Nov 25, 2021, 7:39 PM

[lost echo]

Does Shenhe work well in a comp that doesn't have Ganyu or Ayaka? or she is much better off with them?

[dusk helm]

nerfs seem like targeted at Shen onfield with Chong?
weaker NAs, can't abuse permanent double passive anymore

/hottake

[coral onyx]

This specifically we don't know yet, and it'll be highly dependent on what your needs are if rosaria and/or Kaeya can be enough with your Shenhe, like you'll be fine for anything overworld
but for full stars abyss you'll need big investments on those chars

[proper fern]

shenhe chongyun xingqiu jean

[lost echo]

Yeah I don't mind building either of those tbh since I don't have the 5 star cryo carries and thanks for your response

[lost echo]

pls no xq

[proper fern]

if you want u could replace him with kokomi, then put a better buffer than jean

[lost echo]

XQ is married with hu tao and I don't have Kokomi

[proper fern]

actually wait no kokomi cause she wont have cryo autos

[coral onyx]

Most likely they don't want to allow double stacking of their new transposition of stats into MV, an infused Shenhe with chong has her own quill but could also get Yun Jin stats as MV in NA which could be ridiculous for Single target

Spoiler alert for pure ST Ayaka may get some funny clips of her coming with that

[dusk helm]

fair point

Spoiler alert for pure ST Ayaka may get some funny clips of her coming with that
I'm really excited about this part once live

[mystic linden]

pure cryo comp buffed by about 7%, not bad

[lapis lance]

Can anyone check whether my calculation for Shenhe's buff is right? It's not likely be optimal, only testing first.
1st image: highest ATK Shenhe can get
2nd image: dmg with Ganyu stats

Note: 3687 is 82.18% of her ATK (4486)

[clever yarrow]

is the removal of the refreshing buff on shenhe's e a big deal?

[vast current]

What is the 1.025 in the first equation and why did it change to 1.1?

Res shred?

[lapis lance]

That's the resistance. Taking account of Ganyu -15 cryo. It change to 1.1 because of Shenhe's burst cryo reduction.

It count on enemy with 10% res

Sorry that it's lacking in details

[vast current]

Looks right, then. Though I got a different number for .828*4486.

[lapis lance]

.8218, you mean?

[heavy escarp]

will this team comp be the most expensive in the game?

[vast current]

Carry on.

[lapis lance]

Thanks for taking your time checking it.

[stark niche]

Almost 50% DMG increase
Is this per quill, right?

[pastel portal]

Not if C6

[lapis lance]

Also with her 15% charge atk, 15% cryo bonus, 15% cryo res shred.

Don't count on it being completely right though. I'm still an amateur in calculating the formula.

[mystic linden]

if her a1 is unchanged she should give 40% dmg total: 15% burst, 10% a1, 15% a4

[vast current]

Is the Amos boost in that 2.436?

[lapis lance]

I guess, it change to 15% the last I checked earlier just now

52% (Amos) + 46.6% (cryo artifact) + 15% (cryo blizzard strayer)

then 30% from Shenhe buff (15% charge atk + 15% cryo)

[vast current]

The quill contribution is such a smoll bump compared to Ganyu’s multipliers.

[pale root]

52% amos?
You mean amos + wt?

[vast current]

Is the 6.22 for both hits of Frostflake? If so, should double the quill component.

[pale root]

I was going to point that out

[lapis lance]

Yes, I use 6.22 as it's what I'm most familiar with.

[mystic linden]

generally better to separate out the quill damage anyway since that's limited procs and not aoe

[pale root]

Sry @lapis lance you still there?

I was going through the formula
One more doubt

The 3,4 on the crit
Are we assuming 240% CD, right?

WT + Proto Crescent R5 proc
Assuming 200% CD

Still looks impressive to me

[mystic linden]

yea but that damage isn't every shot because quill charges are limited

[pale root]

Sure

Its shenhe biggest problem

The number of qills

[coral onyx]

wait something's weird there, your quills don't do the same damage, why does a quill give more damage to a bloom than an arrow? (5330 vs 4915 on the non crit for example)

[brazen loom]

So how do the buffs look? Relevant or nah?

[vast current]

Meh.

[pale root]

I'm sorry, where?
The qill is doing 3687 on frostflake, 3687 on bloom
And double that when i added both multipliers together

[coral onyx]

Frostflake arrow buffed - non buffed : 11615-6700 = 4915
Frostflake bloom buffed - non buffed = 16720-11615 = 5105

there shouldn't be any difference to just the quill as they are buffed and/or are affected by the same multipliers

Hum actually

the buff/res shred added from shenhe increase the base arrow and bloom

[pale root]

Yeah

Thats where the diff comes from

30% bonus dmg

[drifting vigil]

40%? You mistake something?

[pale root]

I think he meant
Between the bonus dmg and the shred
But its now 45% post today changes

[mystic linden]

i don't see the new 15% cryo damage on honey impact but it used to be 25% without it

15% from press skill (a4), 10% from being in burst (a1)

[drifting vigil]

It's just A1 adjusted to 15%

+5%

[vast current]

Shenhe good yet?

[mystic linden]

always has been

[drifting vigil]

65k CryoKeq N1Cs

24.8k + 23.2k CA + 17k N1

6.7% increase from Shenhe buff today

Only 15% shred

No VV in team

I missed some DMG%, it's more than that

[vast current]

Yeah but Kazu easier.

[drifting vigil]

Nearly 69k

[drifting vigil]

?

[vast current]

Pointing out that Shenhe's buffs rely on her quills being active, her press or hold E, as well as her Q.

[drifting vigil]

I'm playing perma freeze with Kok Chong C6 Shen

[vast current]

Whereas Kazuha can just press E.

C6 Shen.

[drifting vigil]

Doesnt get easier than that

[vast current]

I'm too F2P for this conversation.

[drifting vigil]

How much EM does the usual Kazuha reach, realistically?

With or without Freedom Sworn?

With 800 EM Kaz and VV and -20% ATK cuz no 4ToM Kok... 91.4k N1Cs

32.5k + 34.5k CAs

24.3k N1

No healer thoug H

Rest in peace

[clever yarrow]

I was about to say, how would triple cryo work w/out a healer since you cant freeze w/out hydro?

[drifting vigil]

Epic skill

[chilly hinge]

High investment with average substat rolls and iron sting is around 950 EM

[drifting vigil]

Naruhodo

[patent smelt]

I thought Liyue chars were supposed to be op

[pale root]

The fact that shenhe was already playable and comparable to benny (exclusive for cryo)
Without any beta buffs screams liuye supremacy to me

And today buff Just got her slightly better

[paper ice]

comparable to bennett?

according to whom or what

[pale root]

I saw some sheets on this exact discord

For buffing purposes was like a 2% increase

From lv13 Q achilla bennet

That was without healing... But yeah

[frigid stump]

that's still pretty nuts

[paper ice]

under what circumstances?

[frigid stump]

now imagine she could buff other elements

[paper ice]

bennett can buff multiple chars and buff aoe dmg

[pale root]

I think it was for a single cryo dps

[paper ice]

from what ive seen, shenhe is fine in ST, but craps out in aoe

[frigid stump]

until the enemies leave the circle

[pale root]

I have to recover the sheets

[paper ice]

that would make sense

[pale root]

Yup
Its not like we dont have freaking wolves

[frigid stump]

we need to cancel circle impact

[pale root]

Bring Square meta

[mystic linden]

that's why bennett usually buffs snapshot abilities

[pale root]

Well
Geo meta is near us
Aka
The climbing in pillar accidentally meta

[frigid stump]

it's fine bosses destroy constructs all the time

so just fill abyss with bosses

[pale root]

So that was the reason for 3 kenkis

Triple the odds of breaking constructs before we climb in then

Big brain

[frigid stump]

mhy really is 5head

[patent smelt]

I suppose thats true, didn't they nerf zhonglis na's as well?

[slim tree]

just don't use Zhongli, easy

[frigid stump]

[patent smelt]

in beta i meann

[slim tree]

we don't really know what happen in 1.1 beta, since leak weren't so reliable back then

[neat geyser]

900+ with good Er

Like 160 er something

[drifting vigil]

[wooden stratus]

Basically

Shenhe needs Chongyun for the copium to become hopium?

I wanted a waifu, why do I have to use a PP?

[hallow flower]

i dont think so

[wooden stratus]

All signs lead to yes

[hallow flower]

i think people are overvaluing chong in general for her teams

[wooden stratus]

Otherwise, outperformed by VV shred Kazuha

[hallow flower]

what do you mean?

[wooden stratus]

Shenhe's buffs too limited while Kazuha just EQ hurr durr and you gain as much

[hallow flower]

but where does chongyun come into this equation

is he pushing her teams further than what slotting in a vv user will do?

[wooden stratus]

Making Shenhe's quills do more damage

but making units do cryo damage

[hallow flower]

most of the units in a shen team already expend her quills fast enough though

[wooden stratus]

Yeah otherwise you're gonna have to bring all Cryo units in your arsenal

Which limits Shenhe, but I guess that's what miHoYo wants

[hallow flower]

and the only thing chong brings for team dmg is 10% shred which you dont need when you are already shredding with vv + shen

[obsidian ore]

i thought people suggested chong for the sake of reverse melt burst chong

[wooden stratus]

Yeah people do Cryo damage

Gotta do Cryo damage to reverse melt

and get buffed by Shenhe

and need Chongyun to make a Pyro applicator do Cryo damage

[obsidian ore]

@wooden stratus im talking about chong's burst

[wooden stratus]

Really?

[obsidian ore]

[wooden stratus]

Chongyun's the one rev melting?

[obsidian ore]

using chong's E to infuse characters is so much copium

[wooden stratus]

That's what I said the first time

Copium into hopium

[hallow flower]

but how will you apply pyro off field quick enough

to reverse melt autos

and at that point your vv slot gets tighter

i dont see chongyun teams being ideal for shenhe

[obsidian ore]

ayahe or go home

[hallow flower]

chongyun already is an underwhelming unit

[fluid belfry]

It’s gonna be fun for damage showcases but unlikely practical

[hallow flower]

so you need to really extract everything possible from his kit

[pale root]

Imb4 Shenhe supporting Venti+Kazu on cryo goblets

[pliant solar]

Im doing chong cause why tf not but i have rosa as backup

If all else fails i can play boring ganyu again

[drifting vigil]

without C6 Shen*

[hallow flower]

even with c6 shen

[drifting vigil]

[hallow flower]

i only see it maybe popping off with a c6 kaz build for chong

so you can leverage 200 dmg% autos

who else would use cryo autos well from chong infuse
@drifting vigil

[drifting vigil]

I'm sure you've seen me talking about my Keqing

[hallow flower]

i havnt

[drifting vigil]

No depletion of quills from Q and E

[hallow flower]

but keqing doesnt have strong enough hits to really use it that well imo

[drifting vigil]

And high MV/s CAs/autos

[drifting vigil]

?

Strength of char's individual hits is irrelevant for quill damage

But she has good frames anyway and kit is good for using quill enhanced cryo autos besides

[drifting vigil]

Here are my Keqing's damage in perma freeze comp...

[drifting vigil]

And here with Kaz instead of Kok

@hallow flower

She's got 223 CV with R1 Mist 2TF2BS, 219.5% CDMG, and nearly 100% CR after ulting, can't remember exactly what the % was

But yeah

[hallow flower]

im seeing only 20k shen procs per tick of dmg on keqing

[drifting vigil]

let me do my dailies and I'll just paste the calculation

[hallow flower]

hang on let me adjust something

keq + hydro + vv right?

whos the last slot?

[drifting vigil]

No VV in freeze team

[hallow flower]

oh chong derp

why not?

[drifting vigil]

No space?

Shen Chong Hydro

Keqing

[hallow flower]

ah yea

[hallow flower]

around 19k quill dmg

with 4bliz keqing 220 cv

@drifting vigil

dmg looks pretty low imo

and then your only other dmg source is keqing CA dmg which is not that high

what would you say the rotation length would be?

[drifting vigil]

Idk how you came to use those stats, that's far greater than even my own Keqing

270 cdmg?

Either way, her N1C is about 60 frames

Thats 3 procs

per second

Idk how yiu might find that low

All I'm saying is it's not cope

[hallow flower]

that should be her stats with 220 cv artis and 4blizz passive

[drifting vigil]

I don't have a good 4 piece Blizz set so I'm using 2 piece

With 2 piece Thunder cuz they're also high CV

[hallow flower]

theres several other c6 characters that do much more though. when you consider the only real dmg being keqing CA (which is known to be not that great without onhit characters like beidou) and shenhe's contribution

thats why i think its low

[drifting vigil]

I think 60k+ dps that's practically unconditional is pretty good

I guess call it relatively low if you want to

[hallow flower]

its using up several slots for only 60k

its very low relatively speaking

[drifting vigil]

For fun team with Keqing 🙂

[hallow flower]

if you go this kind of comp the damage is much higher

you have ayaka, ganyu doing large amount of dmg with their base kits

and your usage of shen's quill is also much more effective

[true moss]

Question, since shenhe has a 80% or so dmg bonus from her attack, and lets say she has around 2500 Atk, is it flat 2k attack only for cryo kind of like Bennett? Or is it like 2k% cryo damage bonus?

[drifting vigil]

They aren't Keqing

[hallow flower]

shen atk x 80% x crit of the quill user x dmg% of the user

is what shen adds

[true moss]

Could you explain to me in stupid?

[drifting vigil]

You're given additional damage to your cryo attack that is = to 80% of Shenhe's total attack. That damage is then multiplied by your active character's dmg% and crit stats

[true moss]

So basically in a way it kind of is like Bennett? But only for cryo and doesn’t go into your stats?

[drifting vigil]

Not like bennett

Bennett's buff would not affect this damage, for example

He does not make that added damage stronger

[hallow flower]

bennett gives atk
shenhe gives damage

the damage she gives only cares about the user's crit stats and dmg% stats (like cryo cup)

[true moss]

Hmmm so the raw damage from shenhe in 2.5k would peak at 2k extra cryo damage without scaling from any of the attackers stats?

[hallow flower]

less

[true moss]

Ö

[hallow flower]

enemy def cuts dmg in half

[drifting vigil]

If she had 2.5k attack, the added damage would then be 2k x the active character's dmg% x their crit

Then yeah

Reduction based on defense

Resistance

[leaden forge]

what lmao

[true moss]

Dam so she isn’t as broken as I thought she’d be

I guess I don’t have to worry about my primo finances anymore, thanks everyone for the explanation

I’ll get her in her rerun eventually lol

[vagrant cargo]

Shenhe's only purpose is to buff your wet dreams.

[hallow flower]

shes good if you build around quills without compromising your team comp

but its hard to do that

[drifting vigil]

She's good if you think she's good

[vast current]

Quills aren’t her biggest damage contributor unless you C6 whale.

15% cryo damage boost, 15% attack type boost, and shred are her major contributions.

Noblesse would probably be better than 2p glad/wawa.

[true moss]

I’m pulling for Ganyu though I think she’d work better with Ayaka since she can get more hits in and make the most of the quill buff no? Ganyu already hits like a truck so unless you’re really into big numbers then I don’t think shenhe is necessary since Ganyu alone in a freeze team is good enough

Or maybe I’m wrong, lol

[vast current]

As long as the character can use all the quills, they’re equally buffed in that regard.

Shenhe C6 is when you go pepega for quill procs.

[hallow flower]

her quills are giving more dmg than what a ganyu would gain from the buff though

[vast current]

622% Ganyu’s ATK * 1.3 * 1.025/0.9 is lower than 2 * 82.18% Shenhe’s ATK * 1.3 * 1.025/0.9 ?

Well, I suppose it’d be the difference.

[hallow flower]

yeah her buffs give ganyu like ~20% more dmg

for ca at least with amos

[vast current]

622% Ganyu ATK * (1.3 * 1.025 / 0.90 - 1)

[hallow flower]

so unless shenhe is doing less than 20% of ganyu's dmg

[true moss]

Is it worth it to pull for her then? Just your personal opinion

[wooden stratus]

up

[hallow flower]

it depends on a lot of things

if you are struggling in abyss rn, then no i dont think she would help

if you want a mono cryo team to deal with non freezable enemies then shes good

[vast current]

I did the maffs, the quills would add more at the base level if Shenhe’s ATK is 2.45x Ganyu’s.

The ratio would narrow with more buffs accounted for, though.

[hallow flower]

are you counting shen proccing her own quills?

[true moss]

Ah, then she’s just a QOL type unit? My idea was to pull Ganyu and shenhe to pair with my already max investment kokomi and create a freeze team since I don’t have one

[vast current]

No, I’m only considering Shenhe’s contribution to Ganyu’s damage.

But my maff doesn’t even accountf for cryo damage and Amos.

[hallow flower]

ayaka fits into that team better than shen if you had to prioritize

[vast current]

Just literally the base kits.

[hallow flower]

thats the most important thing for determining shenhe's contribution in buffs

[wooden stratus]

how would you rate her 1-10?

[hallow flower]

on what basis?

[wooden stratus]

if shes worth the primo

[true moss]

Oddly enough, I have a weird vendetta against Ayaka. Her character is great and all but I can never shake the wet sock incident out of my mind lol

It’s weird but it is what it is. Every time I picture her I hear the sloshing. Just a matter of likes and dislikes

[hallow flower]

then shes prob the next best thing to slot in unless you want diona healing

[wooden stratus]

i honestly love her design but damn the kit is really odd im not even sure how shes gonna really work for my comps like rev meltyu and morgana ft kazuha

[true moss]

Yeah, I would’ve assumed lol

Though I already have a kokomi that heals 20k every bubble burst so healing definitely isn’t an issue

I guess rosaria or kaeya could work though it really is just a vacant space because no other character would benefit as much since Ganyu -kokomi - venti is super self sufficient as is. Probably rosaria is the best slot even if the critrate is kind of useless lol

[wooden stratus]

if only she wasnt limited to cryo

💀

[true moss]

Imagine her as a pyro buffer

Hutao C1 go brrrr

Klee CA go boom

[hallow flower]

if you dont run ganyu/ayaka then skip imo

[wooden stratus]

lol i have ganyu xd

[hallow flower]

well, you can run her in place of rosaria in a eula team

[wooden stratus]

if only sacrificial polearm existed

[true moss]

Cryo dmg eula lol?

[hallow flower]

shes there for energy/buff/quill

you still build eula phys

quills do less of course, but you still proc them all usually

[true moss]

I thought she only buffed cryo dmg? I mean yea she gives NA bonus but isn’t it kind of a waste?

[hallow flower]

she shreds phys also

and eula still does cryo dmg

in the combo

[true moss]

I guess but doesn’t rosaria do the same too?

[hallow flower]

yes

they are similar in strength for that team

[true moss]

Loll

[dire ivy]

https://youtu.be/6aU6h-iPBu4

[sinful flume]

the stats

[dire ivy]

Wym?

Those her actual stats

[sinful flume]

30k ATK

[pine heron]

well, now we know c1 is an addition charge

fuck mhy EN translation/localization/wording

[lavish river]

would discussion for shenhe involve her weapon as well, I was going to ask if anyone thought her weapon would be useful on anyone else or is it just kinda not great across the board?

[pine heron]

no I think c1 overrides current stacks
like after press, hold should consume press stacks and then the 7 stacks override the 4 remaining from press
then ult hits 1+...
wait nvm huh
stacks are gone by the 5th (6th counting the Q activation slash) (stacks are noted by floating liyue characters)

so either E can consume its own stack when its being used

or idk something's eating smth and stacks don't stack based on footage

or that footage is bugged lmao

[vast nacelle]

you are right i already delete what i wrote

[pine heron]

you didn't have to

c1 really looks like its trying to say "please just do quickswap bursts of dmg"

[vast current]

No stacks,

[radiant jetty]

Did anyone do a calc of PJWS vs her weapon?

[pastel portal]

So I'm doing trying to do some logic here. In a Ayaka/Bennet/Shenhe/X team you'd go:
Bennet Q -> Shenhe Q -> Shenhe E tap -> Ayaka N1 (weapon) + Q -> Shenhe E tap again once quills run out during Ayaya burst

Sounds about right?

[pliant solar]

shen tap e then q

thats assuming she can collect particles during q animation

[pastel portal]

Ah, I forgot every member gets stacks independently

curious about C4 too

at max stacks it would do like +500% on E tap

[ripe cedar]

oh man C1 doesnt give 10-14 quills

basically useless then?

[pastel portal]

no, you can refresh

[ripe cedar]

yeah it refreshes instead of adding stacks

[pastel portal]

it's basically the same

a bit more annoying

and harms swapping

[ripe cedar]

no I mean if I use press E twice rightaway then I have 5 stacks right

[pastel portal]

but considering the short CD its cool

[ripe cedar]

I cant just save 10 stacks with say, Ayaka's burst

[pastel portal]

no, that's why I was saying

Bennet Q -> Shenhe E tap -> Shenhe Q -> Ayaka N1 (weapon) + Q -> Shenhe E tap again once quills run out during Ayaya burst

[ripe cedar]

so you reload quills midburst right

[pastel portal]

ye

[ripe cedar]

that's harder than overloading on stacks

[pastel portal]

yeah, it's definitely annoying

[ripe cedar]

yeah that's what I meant by basically useless

[pastel portal]

but at the same time, if you go for C4, makes it so you do a good chunk of dmg during that time

[ripe cedar]

it's better to just stay at C0

like with Childe

and try to roll for Skyward Spine

since at C0 you already got like 90% of her kit

[pine heron]

C1 is like dropping the whole clip of bullets, and replaces them regardless of how many bullets still left before the reload

[ripe cedar]

I wanted to just have larger clips so while quick swapping I can use like 40 quills at once lol

alas

[pastel portal]

would be ideal

but you're getting a good chunk of dmg tho from the other buffs

10% cryo dmg, 15% shred and 15% crit dmg (C2) during Q, 15% burst dmg from tap E... sounds good to me

[ripe cedar]

yeah I just meant rolling for C0+weapon is better than rolling for even C4

different with Raiden's C2 which is undeniably strong

or Klee's C2 that makes her a great support

[vast current]

You can’t get max stacks on C4 without C6

[ripe cedar]

yeah that's why any of her constellation is whale only

good thing imho

[vast current]

🐳

C6 for ultra restrictive support.

[pine heron]

[ripe cedar]

just pray for my broke ass to get her without using up guarantees

[pliant solar]

i think i might go er atk crit with el

[pastel portal]

I mean, cryo is such a dominant element in the game

I'll probably C6 her

unless further tests show some sort of negative interaction

At this point in the game I don't think there's a point going for 0c 5* unless the character has bad cons but is excellent baseline (i.e. Kazuha)

Even if you're f2p

saving and getting optimal cons is way smarter

[ripe cedar]

for me, it's more about having a lot of toys to play with

[pliant solar]

if all u care about is performance yes

for me i go for c0 everything because 2 months later the char is getting benched

and i pull a new toy to play with

[vast current]

🐳

Too many hwales in the Shenhe TC channel.

[ripe cedar]

I tried quickswapping comp this abyss with DPS Diona, Rosaria, Chongyun and Kazuha (for 2nd half of F9-11) and it's the most fun I've been since forever

[pastel portal]

Yeah, this is putting waifu/fun pulls aside

[pliant solar]

but yea

getting things like c2 raiden that u saved up for goes a long way in carrying abyss etc

[ripe cedar]

Agreed that powerwise, cons of a good 5* is better than spreading your pulls around

[pastel portal]

I absolutely hate Bennett as a character but play him all the time, and at the same time love KQ but she's permabenched until dendro hopefully does something magical to electro

[pliant solar]

i dont really mind ben's character

the typical anime side character that nobody takes seriously

[ripe cedar]

I'm excited about benny's lore actually, I think like Xiangling's Guoba, he will have deeper back story than we thought we knew

[pliant solar]

strong in lore too maybe

[ripe cedar]

I'm excited for Yunjin to buff my Keq

[pastel portal]

Yunjin doesn't buff charged tho?

[pliant solar]

only na

[ripe cedar]

I want to play normal Keqing

[pastel portal]

[ripe cedar]

Just got good electro goblet

with BS I can reach 60/180 with shimenawa

yunjin's bonus damage should cover black sword's low base atk

[pastel portal]

But, I mean, Playing KQ "normally" is... using her charged attacks?

[ripe cedar]

no i mean normal attavk keqing

I know it's not optimal lol

[pliant solar]

keq normally is CA spam

[ripe cedar]

just feels like it

Will got plenty of Yunjin anyway from rolling on Shenhe

[pliant solar]

but lets be real if youre playing keq youre probably memeing cause u like her

[ripe cedar]

THE COSTUME TOO
IM EXCITED

[vast current]

I was running Keqing with a 70/250 ratio and she was not good.

[pliant solar]

right the costume

might a6 her

[ripe cedar]

also I somehow got C4 Keqing

[pliant solar]

i rerolled for her but ditched soon

[ripe cedar]

lmao

[ebon jackal]

I still main her lol

[ripe cedar]

C4 Keqing, C1 Qiqi, C2 Jean, C0 Diluc and Mona

[ebon jackal]

But I don’t see where I’d slot yunjin in when I’ve got Sara/Kazuha/Bennett

[ripe cedar]

got """""blessed""""" with keq cons while trying to roll for her archon's C2

I meant raiden

[pastel portal]

KQ could be good but electro lul. She needs dendro to buff electro to magical levels (hopefully happens ) + some support that buffs her charged attacks - only then she could actually competitive.

but anyways, back to Shenhe lmao

[ripe cedar]

I mean even if dendro+electro is an amping reaction she'll gonna fucked by ICD anyway so

[pastel portal]

that's why we need a CA buffer that's not Shenhe (!)

[ripe cedar]

believe me we'll get one hahaha

[true forge]

Keqing is bad because she is bad. Literally every other Electro unit is fine but her

That should tell you something

[ripe cedar]

also cryo keq looking good

[pastel portal]

Poor KQ leave her alone

[pine heron]

kq needs tailored arti and weapon but that ain't happening

[pastel portal]

we all know fischl, sara, raiden and even Beidou is better than her lmao

[pastel portal]

Could happen and I absolutely can see how it will benefit another character(s) way more than her

[pine heron]

Could but

[ripe cedar]

keqing should get polar star-like weapon

I mean her C6 is already that

[pine heron]

She needs no stamina cost

[ripe cedar]

bloodstained...

[pine heron]

[ripe cedar]

forgotten...

[pine heron]

[ripe cedar]

lol

[pine heron]

Needs you to kill smth first

[ripe cedar]

killing with keqing 😩

[pastel portal]

She needs something that absolutely focus on her charged attacks, her only saving grace.

[pine heron]

Yea

[ebon jackal]

She can clear abyss just fine… she just needs c6 Sara, kaz, bennett lol

[pine heron]

[ripe cedar]

after using elemental skill, charged attack consumes no stamina for 5s

Kaeya use this better too

[pine heron]

dps albedo

[ebon jackal]

https://streamable.com/w8vhyw

[ripe cedar]

since he can freeze and not launch enemies

[pine heron]

Missing the point here bro
She is underpowered

[ebon jackal]

I get the point bro

[pine heron]

[ripe cedar]

back to shenhe

I cant wait for bathysmal vishap to arrive in abyss and drain everyone's energy

and force them to go play with skill instead of burst

so that mihoyo can sell Shenhe during her rerun

lol

[ebon jackal]

Really wonder how they’ll try and sell her with people expecting yae around the corner

I bet it’ll feel like a bait patch to deplete primos unless they really make her shine

[pale root]

The Yae drip marketing
Can already see it
Yae character card in the most optimal position to optimize showing of her sideboobs

[pastel portal]

There's been enough time to save for both

Well

If you skip Itto, which is pretty much a no brainer

unless they do some last minute hyperbuffs

[true forge]

We say this about literally every patch

There's no such thing as bait patches. Hell we're not even sure what Yae is yet.

[ebon jackal]

I agree, but I’m not talking about tcs, more the regular folk who might hear she’s lacklustre

[coral onyx]

Itto's banner is pretty much a must pull for a lot of players though
Must pull if you play : Noelle, Albedo, Itto and possibly for Yun Jin if you want to test 3 geo Gorou-Yun Jin
Basically if you are a Geo player, you have to pull for at the strict minimum 1 Gorou

[mystic linden]

why would you pull itto if you already use noelle

[pastel portal]

Noelle? He'd be fighting for that spot

Albedo works well

but you'd have to be pulling for high const Gorou at the same time

so minimum investment is high for the reward

which is, as far as we've seen, OK dps but nothing that outperforms anything that's been out for the past 9 months

[coral onyx]

You HAVE to pull for Gorou if you use Noelle, unless you don't care about your account power

[pastel portal]

-again, as far as leaks and Itto TC has shown-

[pastel portal]

That's the point: why would you pull for a 4* for anther 4*

beyond liking the character

[mystic linden]

ideally you'd pull for gorou and stop before itto pity

[pastel portal]

that's impossible to predict tho

[coral onyx]

What do you mean? You know Noelle(at C6 at least) is one of the best character in the game right now right? and that Gorou will buff her A LOT
so obviously if you play Noelle, you want Gorou

[mystic linden]

pretty good odds

[pastel portal]

She's good but, without a shadow of a doubt, below the top tier dps in the game

if you like her or main her that's absolutely fine

just talking from a logical perspective

[vast current]

Obviously if you can’t play top tier DPS then might as well not invest at all. /s

[livid spruce]

Why do all Keqing showcases feel more like Kujou Sara showcases to me?

[vast current]

[ebon jackal]

Lol yeah I was impressed by her damage, would’ve liked to see the build

[pastel portal]

lol it's not about being a metaslave, but more about using the resources wisely

[mystic linden]

4emblem, harp, find a big target so her ult hits multiple times

[vast current]

Also forgetting the having fun part of vidya games.

[vast current]

I RUN THAT BUILD! I CAN MAKE A DPS SHOWCASE!

[mystic linden]

[ebon jackal]

It’s not harp, it’s the Childe bow. But yeah, all that plus whaled account

[mystic linden]

welp nvm no dps showcase for @vast current then

[coral onyx]

That Sara hit for 210k+ on her burst

[vast current]

Are current shenhe maffs done with 2p glad/wawa, or 4p noblesse?

[mystic linden]

i did mine with 4no

[pale root]

I did mine on 2/2 glad remi

[pastel portal]

Hopefully 2 glad 2 shime is about equal

It's gonna be hard getting enough ER with other decent substats in a 4-piece

We'll see what further tweaks they do soon though

[mystic linden]

what

it's easier to build a 4-piece set than 2/2

assuming you have the same amount of stuff pre-farmed in both cases

[pale root]

Depending on how long you're playing
The odds of you having good glad stuff just by farming trounces

Make the odds turn to the side of 2/2

[silk oak]

Isnt 2glad/2shim better and easier to farm? Her burst has a 20s cd for 4no

[mystic linden]

yea but most of your team dps happens in a 10s window

[jolly shadow]

Sorry if this is a repeat question, I was finding a hard time looking it up in the search. But is Shenhe a worthwhile pull for Eula? Eula is like the only Cryo dps I use.

[lapis crow]

no

[oak tide]

nope, eula doesn't have enough cryo dmg%

you could feasibly do triple cryo with eula/shenhe though

but unfortunately both eula and shenhe need a cryo battery

[jolly shadow]

RIP. I was really looking forward to get her but I don't have Ayaka and Ganyu playstyle isn't that fun to me

[hallow flower]

she is similar to rosaria in performance for a eula team from what i seen

[true forge]

Shenhe works with basically any Cryo unit with a pulse. I mean that literally in this case, as the only Cryo unit she actively sucks with is Qiqi.

But considering you're pulling her specifically for Eula I'd say pass.

[pale root]

Unless you are actually using a Off-meta Cryo-infused Eula, i wouldnt even count Eula as a Cryo unit

[hallow flower]

shes not but she procs all the quills the same

you just dont get the dmg% bonus

[pale root]

she works similarly to the rosaria slot on that comp

from what i've saw, not a huge diff right now

[hallow flower]

mhm

[pale root]

(i would also love to slot Eula and Shenhe together), but sadly wouldnt recommend

[hallow flower]

well it could be an option if you dont want to try c6 rosa

c0 shenhe should cost less

[pale root]

yeah

Shenhe c0 has phys shred

and 15% burst dmg bonus

• additional qill dmg

its just not a massive upgrade

as is for other cryo units

(Ganyu, Ayaka)

etc

she can take Rosaria c6 slot confortably

its for you to decide, if its worth rolling on a event 5* unit

for a small upgrade over running rosaria

also being futureproof for a eventual cryo unit you might pull

supports are always more futureproof than dps

if you seen confused about my reasoning going back and forth about pulling or not pulling
its because i'm going back and forth myself

[drifting vigil]

so much weirdChamp in this server

[drifting vigil]

Can clear it fine without them

[drifting vigil]

Every character showcase is Bennett Showcase or Venti/Kazuha showcase... also XL

[wooden stratus]

shenhe main dps can't be worst than kaeya right

[ebon jackal]

I know, it was mostly tongue in cheek, that’s just who I run her with
https://streamable.com/ocgl6l

Anyway, back to Shenhe…

[drifting vigil]

https://www.twitch.tv/bloodreign616/v/1219495252?sr=a

[drifting vigil]

Yes...

[cyan sapphire]

so shes worth it?

[frigid stump]

she's good if you have a cryo dps but wait until we get more info

[hollow hazel]

It's still the early phase of the beta for 2.4 and we still have 28 days till January 5th so we don't know how her kit will come out.

[wooden stratus]

Day 1 of coping for carry shenhe sheets

[mystic linden]

it seems her c0 burst actually does 6 sets of 2 slashes https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/r8jwpg/shenhe_full_showcase/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

kinda weird how adding 6 seconds onto a 12s duration only changes it from 6 to 8

guess the durations aren't exact

[wooden stratus]

So its around 800% total MV?

[mystic linden]

going adc is still a team damage loss over all atk mainstats

might break even at very high investment with c2

[leaden holly]

Is shenhe Q even worth it, if it consume half of the quills already

[mystic linden]

quills are per character

[leaden holly]

Oh

That pog i didnt know that

[pastel portal]

yup, independent instances, too bad a C1 re-tap won't stack quills

...for now

:copium:

[wooden stratus]

Wait oops

Whats the significance of the remived text

[pastel portal]

I think it still refreshes the buff

We'll have to wait and see

[ebon jackal]

Haven’t watched yet, just saw it in my feed
https://youtu.be/vjnxcM6cBRI

[coral onyx]

Here is how many time it hits WITH C2(C6 in this case I think) from the leak fights with the pyro thing that existed before
34 Initial hit
12 12 Same time as initial hit
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
12 12
14 14 (ZL shield shred)
14 14
14 21 (crit)
faded

76 Initial hit (buffed from E stacks)
37 37 Same time as initial hit (buffed from E stacks)
37 37 (buffed from E stacks)
16 16
12 12
12 19
12 12
33 33 (buffed from E stacks)
33 33 (buffed from E stacks)

her burst damage at C0 is initial + 10 dot : 777.64% at T10
C2 is initial + 16 dot : 1135.56% at 10

[wooden stratus]

[coral onyx]

In the video from early beta the first set of 2 hits of the dots happened at the same time as the initial hit

[main delta]

I'm getting some decent numbers with a freeze comp + ganyu

Well, at least from what the optimizer's calc is showing

[coral onyx]

which Hydro char?

[main delta]

I'm rolling her either way Ganyu's getting a boost

Mona with Prototype Amber

Could go for more with TTDS but I like Amber's versatility more

[coral onyx]

Well you should never get bad dps numbers with mona

Hum, how many CA does a freeze mona-Ganyu get with Omen up? at best 2 right?

[main delta]

no? You should be able to easily get 2-3 CAs in even before counting in the extension

[coral onyx]

No way in hell mine does or you are playing C6 Ganyu or with EM, I need a video clip of that so I could use it

Hum the Diona-Venti variant can do it but it's just not reliable with Kazuha

[proven fern]

i'd say since the omen lasts 5 seconds after the bubble pops, you'd be able to fit in 2 more ganyu CA

[coral onyx]

Nope

[proven fern]

elaborate

[coral onyx]

As I said it works that way with Venti-Diona-Mona your freeze don't break I'm guessing the EM from Diona and the swirls helping gauge for freeze, in other setup the freeze is going to briefly fade and start omen timer

[proven fern]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/l6e1ns/monaganyu_omen_freeze_demonstration_12_second/

ganyu burst + mona Q-E is enough apparently

[coral onyx]

Hum yeah the damage is calculated at the release of the arrow apparently and even if the omen animation isn't on the monster anymore it's extended

[proven fern]

On a side note: EM does not affect freeze duration

[coral onyx]

Yeah it only gets extended by cryo/freeze if it has remaining opposite side additional aura gauge

[strange field]

Has Shenhe TC changed in the past few days after the pinned message

[short yoke]

Only mona c1 iirc

[wooden stratus]

Apparently not

Its bugged?

[short yoke]

It better not be

It says that on her kit

Anyone c0 owner to compare with a c1

[neat geyser]

This does not work

C1 mona on freeze extension is uh not working

Pls fix mhy

Proof is somewhere on TCL

Check Mona C1 snapshot section on the Mona evidence vault for more detail

[wooden stratus]

Wait

Did it have to do something with freeze decay

[neat geyser]

No c1 just doesnt work for freeze

[wooden stratus]

Lmfao

[neat geyser]

mhy scamming us

[wooden stratus]

I like how it isnt even a mechanic thing it just doesn’t work

[short yoke]

Mahn

I feel scammed

[leaden holly]

Gotta report it then

[pastel portal]

Then again, is omen's freeze extension something actually intended by mhy?

[vast current]

Don’t write it if it’s not intended.

[sinful flume]

if it wasnt fixed it was intended

[frigid stump]

sucrose N1 bug

[sinful flume]

[jovial frigate]

Which teams does it seem like that shenhe would be valuable in

Meta teams i mean

Atleast from any pre-release clacs done rn if any

[pastel portal]

Ayaka/Ganyu freeze teams seem like the obvious choice, where VV isn't as important compared to reaction based teams

[coral onyx]

Viable means nothing right now, she is better than Bennett at buffing any cryo DPS chars

[jovial frigate]

For melt teams?
Cause freeze teams don't even use Bennett

Atleast freeze teams with ayaka and ganyu

[wooden stratus]

Can i ask something

How horrible is dps carry shenhe

[coral onyx]

She gives more damage to any cryo unit than Bennett would give as support in any situation, obviously she doesn't provide pyro but neither does bennett allow melt by himself

[pastel portal]

Her basic attacks have been nerfed

so there's your answer

[wooden stratus]

I know

[coral onyx]

not sure what a melt with SHenhe will be actually

[wooden stratus]

If shes worse than dps yun jin I’m gonna cry so hard

[pastel portal]

If you need a DPS I wouldn't pull on that banner tbh

makes 0 sense

[obsidian ore]

Mihoyo doesn't want you to dps with her, they even went out of their way to further nerf her normals

[coral onyx]

Probably not a great idea unless you have godlike Blizzard Strayer 250+CV with all ATK% and ER% around it and EL and similar buffer for her

[wooden stratus]

I have rosaria anyways

[wooden stratus]

Shenhe chongyun rosaria xingqiu

[pastel portal]

Just wait for Ganyu/Xiao reruns or Yae

[wooden stratus]

[jovial frigate]

Yea but in Melt ganyu Bennett is the pyro swirl enabler

All that i got is that she isn't valuable for ayaka and ganyu if she's only needed in their melt teams to replace Bennett
For freeze Venti, mona and diona still seem like the staple for ayaka and ganyu freeze

[wooden stratus]

Honestly i dont even pull for meta

I already have a kokomi team for one part of abyss i can just run rosaria dps on the other

Still, i havent seen any carry shenhe sheets

[true forge]

At this point there really isn't a meta to pull for. Koko was arguably the least meta unit imaginable before she launched. Now she has one of the best teams in the game

[wooden stratus]

Which is odd, to me.

[coral onyx]

Fuck the meta, I can't 9 stars F12 with meta morgana+another meta team like Hu Tao geo bro
I can 9 stars really confortably with random no meta but coherent teams

[pastel portal]

I think Venti will be severly outperformed by Shenhe or even Rosaria in a freeze comp

[true forge]

We MAKE the meta. The units don't

So saying a unit is meta before launch is almost always a crapshoot

[wooden stratus]

Idk i pulled koko because she looked like a mermaid

And i will pull shenhe because she looks like a chicken

[jovial frigate]

If CC isn't needed on the chambers then yea, agreed
U wouldn't need Venti or kazuha for Ganyu/ayaka freeze

But if it's needed, then shenhe has no place.

[true forge]

Same I was very vocal about the direction they took her kit and still pulled for her because I love her

[wooden stratus]

I am simple, if they look cute or pretty i pull. If they are meta its great then

[true forge]

Turned out alright

[wooden stratus]

Idk i never saw kokomi as bad when she launched because good hydro app support is always killer

[pastel portal]

Thing is, if you look at the past few abyss cycles, there's mostly non succ-eable (lol) enemies in F12

[obsidian ore]

When all arrows point that a character should be built as a support, TC gravitates to theorizing around that type of gameplay. Shenhe will probably be tested for dps role once she releases as well, so I'd just recommend you to wait on her banner and not roll day 1

[wooden stratus]

Venti is very op that the devs have to balance then game around him

[true forge]

My biggest issue with Shenhe is simply because of her nature as a buffer unit she will have teams. Her problem lies in what you need to remove to put her in those teams. She has the damage... what she really needs is a utility of some sort

[wooden stratus]

I see, its just that yun jin somehow has dps calcs courtesy of yjmains

[urban crypt]

Are there any calcs on this?

[true forge]

Healing.
CC.
Grouping.
Something that'll make her kit complete

[wooden stratus]

CC please

[obsidian ore]

Cause there is a real niche for it, she theoretically can drive herself due to fast attacks

[frigid stump]

next cryo has CC and fits well with shenhe trust

[wooden stratus]

She consumes her stacks extremely fast with c6

[jovial frigate]

The abyss can continue to change tho
And the current morganas clear it just fine.

I wouldn't wanna pull on a unit who's ability to be used in a SINGLE team depends if the abyss is CC or not

[obsidian ore]

but they calculated it to check if its or not

[wooden stratus]

Like her n4 is 1.8 seconds

6 hits

[coral onyx]

We don't know about Freeze yet because her constellations are really good and nobody saw her rotations which is THE most important factor in freeze team but Kokomi+Shenhe will be extremly confortable for freeze uptime if the team has enough damage

[jovial frigate]

Her design is a bang tho
I realllllllly want her to be awesome

[obsidian ore]

In comparison, shenhe doesn't really make a lot of use of her own buffs

[wooden stratus]

Just chongyun

[obsidian ore]

we can hope

[wooden stratus]

I hope shes at least justifiable on field

[coral onyx]

Every calcs for Shenhe are pretty much private because her kit is new/complex but Koinzell released a video on her with comparison with Bennett

[wooden stratus]

So far the only 5* that isnt is albedo?

[jovial frigate]

Day and day I'm reminded that i should have pulled for kokomi...

[true forge]

On field Venti?

[wooden stratus]

Have you seen macro venti

I hate it but its scary

[true forge]

I play on console so no

[urban crypt]

ty

[wooden stratus]

Anyways i do have a feeling that Dspine spear will be better than cpike on shenhe

[urban crypt]

Holy shit it's a 1h video

[wooden stratus]

[true forge]

The newer one is only 25 or so

[wooden stratus]

Cpike seems to fare better with multihit fast NAs

Which shenhe doesnt have

[jovial frigate]

But if u don't have Kokomi this team would fall short of a healer if shenhe is replacing diona

[urban crypt]

Oh true just found it

[wooden stratus]

Proto amber shenhe

[true forge]

Why couldn't she be a book user

[pastel portal]

I dislike she being so niche, but that seems the direction they're taking (Kokomi, Gorou, etc). If she works very well in certain scenarios, I don't mind pulling for a good niche unit. She just needs to be really good there.

[wooden stratus]

Because she will abuse freeze and she can self consume stacks

Unless they make her NAs hit once per year and her icd is 3 months

[coral onyx]

Koko just keeps getting better and better teams especially with her new artifact set.
Koko E + shenhe Q = confortable freeze
Yun Jin may buff Koko NA spam builds

I can only see a good future for her, look at sukoko, if they put another swirlable Pyro to overvape she'll be mainstream

[vast current]

[wooden stratus]

Tho i dont think onfield shenhe will be terrible if shes build cryo

But thats the copium talking

[vast current]

Her auto scaling is really bad.

[wooden stratus]

How shit are her NA scalings

[wooden stratus]

Is it actually like

[vast current]

You’d do more damage running Kaeya on field.

[wooden stratus]

That bad

Brb

I looked at rosaria Na multipliers

[coral onyx]

Kaeya actually has pretty good NA MV, I'm surprised we haven't seen chong-Kaeya

[wooden stratus]

I have

I saw someone on Facebook run it

Kaeya Chong Kazuha Kokomi

[vast current]

Her auto MVs are only 8% higher than pre-buffed ZL.

[coral onyx]

he basically has near claymore MV with slightly slower moves than sword

[wooden stratus]

Eh,mm

Im more convinced that dps yun jin does better

[coral onyx]

Yeah he hurts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb2AbdIQjaI

[wooden stratus]

Consumes 30 of her stacks in less than 10 seconds

Hmmm

Question is

Do i mind getting shenhe going for yun jin

[vast current]

30 Yunjin stacks offer way more damage than 5/7 Shenhe stacks.

[coral onyx]

Well on the few NA he does because that team needs lots of on time

[wooden stratus]

Frame perfect tho

[coral onyx]

Yun Jin is going to be free in an event, so if you are scared for the guaranteed or 50/50 if it's confirmed you can skip it

[wooden stratus]

Nontheless yun jin’s gonna easily get 30 stacks

[wooden stratus]

I want cons and i dont really mind getting shenhe

Ill run her onfield and cope

Because shes beautiful

[true forge]

Have yall considered using them together?

[wooden stratus]

[wooden stratus]

I have actually

For cryojin

But for carry shen, not yet

[true forge]

They made Shenhe's auto string so floaty. Like it's graceful but idk

[wooden stratus]

She looks sorta stiff

Though…i have to wonder on how many NAs shen can do in 12 seconds

Has anyone counted?

Maybe shes a nice yun jin driver

[coral onyx]

Well I honestly could see a C1 Shenhe being okay onfield
adc gear with Chongyun - Yun Jin hold E Q - NAs till no more quills then E again and spends the quill by NAs

[vast current]

[wooden stratus]

Sounds neat

Might force noir to calc it

[coral onyx]

C0 is probably going to be copium as onfield time hogger

[wooden stratus]

Maybe it works

Some guy out there will make it work trust

[vast current]

[lapis crow]

mine btw

[wooden stratus]

Btw does frame perfect mean no hitlag?

[lapis crow]

frame perfect means you dash at the same frame you hit, registering said hit

[wooden stratus]

Ohh

[lapis crow]

i also have Shenhe frame counts

[coral onyx]

And you even posted them here

[coral onyx]

c heck the pins her

[mystic linden]

but why would you ever pick the char that needs to stack atk for buffs and er for burst to be adc when you have a team of 4 and anyone else can trigger yunjin's procs just as well

[coral onyx]

because she is the only character that can double down on the transfusion of stats(Def from YJ, ATK from her) into her infused NA, I'm not saying it's going to be great or the best YJ driver
But it may be what she ends up being unique at, huge windows of damage and it's fun to use all of the character if you "main" her
But I hate that her fun gameplay parts were cut and put into const

[mystic linden]

no? use shenhe E, then yunjin Q, then any character can proc quills and yunjin by autoattacking

as long as they're cryo infused

[wooden stratus]

What would the team be

Shenhe Chongyun Yun jin and?

[coral onyx]

Honestly no idea who a good 4th one would be because you part of your rotation is already

CY QE - Yun jin EQ - Shenhe time

Hum probably Kazuha going right after CY Q and before his E

[wooden stratus]

No freeze?

[coral onyx]

Oh YJ is 12 sec Q duration now

[mystic linden]

that "shenhe time" could be for whoever the 4th char is and it'd be way better

[coral onyx]

Kokomi with TTDS Ttom or mona then if you want freeze

[mystic linden]

quills and yunjin procs scale off the attacker's crit/dmg, and you won't fit much of those stats on shenhe who needs to prioritize atk and er

[coral onyx]

hum TTOM would buff both quills and her moves

[wooden stratus]

Im just gonna tell noir to put ttds sucrose

[coral onyx]

Those kind of team assume a "whale" level hyperinvested godlike artifact blizzard Strayer set

on Shenhe

[mystic linden]

even whales would be better off splitting their stats

that's the whole point of shenhe/yunjin procs

[wooden stratus]

Do we even have a cryo AA dps

[mystic linden]

you can have 30 substats on two characters scaling their damage instead of one

[coral onyx]

Not if their Carry is Shenhe, have to multiply her quills but more importantly the full def YJ buff

[mystic linden]

if their carry is shenhe they're playing with an intentional handicap

[coral onyx]

Again not saying it's going to be her best team, or a great team, just maybe a great team for her as a main dps onfield

[wooden stratus]

I told noir to use jean instead of sucrose tho

[coral onyx]

Chongyun is only 10sec duration on his E field so pretty annoying actually for a rotation

Chongyun Q - Anemo - YJ EQ - Chong E - Shenhe time

[mystic linden]

it makes about as much sense as playing sara or gorou on field dps

[wooden stratus]

Ive heard about sara being a good beidou driver

[coral onyx]

If we have something that transfused damage into burst or specifically electro(which mihoyo can't do because Beidou and raiden exists) It would make a lot of sense to play Sara that way

[wooden stratus]

[coral onyx]

and that's pretty much the situation with Shenhe

[mystic linden]

except chong works for every melee character

even yunjin would be a better autoattack candidate than shenhe on that team

[coral onyx]

Oh and Yeah Ayaka for example is probably better for that concept of profiting from double transfusion of stats in her infused NAs but that's for people that want to play Shenhe

[coral onyx]

I'm curious why you think that's the case? Either both would be bad at it or YJ would be worse because her NA doesn't scale at all with her DEF that you are going to want some

[mystic linden]

you have both procs active, you have chong field on, and you're picking the character that has fewer hits per combo in the team

both of their NA damage would be gimped anyway

you're not gonna do much better with a shenhe that just has atk and er

and if you're talking whale then might as well stuff crit and atk onto yunjin as well

since apparently it's so easy to fit any stat onto any char

[coral onyx]

You are going to be limited by quill numbers also, which Shenhe could refresh with C1
I'm curious which would be better actually

[mystic linden]

what's stopping shenhe from refreshing for someone else?

not allowed to swap characters?

[coral onyx]

I'm assuming C1 doesn't work if you switch and it goes into cooldown
if it doesn't then yeah you can run that in anyway you want and YJ may be better for it if you can switch back and forth before the chongyun field fades

But if C1 doesn't go into cooldown C1 Shenhe - Ayaka is going to make this game Ayaka Impact pretty much
and then yeah I'd agree that it'd be a shame to use her in another way

[vast current]

I hate that ‘s natural combo of 4NC doesn’t put the quills on the CA.

[vast current]

What if C1 allows you to hold E -> tap E and get the tap E cooldown?

[chilly hinge]

We’re speculating it’ll work like Xiao E where you have 2 charges

[pale root]

I was thinking exactly that

[chilly hinge]

With an independent cooldown

But I could be wrong

[pale root]

God i love the inconsistency of the eng translation

[vast current]

2 charges doesn’t work if the skill has two distinct cooldown timers.

[pale root]

Xiao c1 is written in a completely different way than shenhe

[vast current]

All charge-based skills we’ve seen so far only has a single CD.

[pale root]

I need to test this on eula + sac gs

[vast current]

Sac GS just resets the cooldown.

[pale root]

But that probably doesnt work the same

Yeah

[vast current]

Eula’s E isn’t charge-based.

[pale root]

Eula E has a charge mode with longer CD

Or i'm drunk already?

[vast current]

Yes, but you never have more than one “charge” of E at a time.

[pale root]

Yeah

Who else has multiple..

Sucrose

Let me check sucrose cons translation

Yeah
I have no idea how it will work on c1

[vast current]

My best guess is, you are given a grace period after using E before it goes into CD.