Shenhe Thread

[strong oak]

but dmg is gonna suffer hard

since you basically just have the Chong nuke

[mystic linden]

how much damage do you lose w/ venti instead of kazuha

[pliant solar]

if its 20s then i think the freeze/triple cryo will beat that by a mile yea?

[strong oak]

You lose your reliable way to quadmelt

[pliant solar]

how exactly do u quad melt again

ben has 2u on both his e and q right

[strong oak]

Bennett EQ with a Pyro absorbed Anemo Ult is the reliable way afaik

[pliant solar]

oh my

[strong oak]

Technically it was possible with just Bennett EQ

but the window is super tight

[pliant solar]

right it starts ticking down as soon as u apply

[true forge]

Good Lord that Kazu ER requirement

[mystic linden]

what about bennett Q chong E bennett E chong Q

1+3 melts

wait idk how to swirl cryo with that

[pliant solar]

the other thing is shen's q

[strong oak]

20s its doable

But at that point, jsut run the Melt Rosa version

[pliant solar]

u probably want that shred and buff

yea lmao

[strong oak]

Melt Rosa with C6 Ben also allows Shenhe to just apply more Pyro while camping Bennett Q

for the ATK on Quills

[floral jay]

Wait so like

3 cryo + anemo

venti

Fuck i need venti wait i could also go for kazuha but

wait but

[pliant solar]

ill probably still get her at worst all i end up with is a weak chong q and melt ben

[floral jay]

Try kaz shen ig

[strong oak]

If nothing else you get one beautiful QuadMelt Screenshot

[floral jay]

[strong oak]

30k extra on every CY Blade

[pliant solar]

i know melt ben is pretty damn strong but i can already play that with kaz/succ chong diona ben

30k is pretty spicy

but that setup is pain

[floral jay]

well

[pliant solar]

where is yae i wanna go back to transformatives

[floral jay]

Still waiting for shen adjustment and buff

[mystic linden]

overdose

[pliant solar]

im staying optimistic but i dont expect substantial changes

big feeling her q will stay 80 cost

because of c2

at most they knock it down to 70 and 18s cd

[floral jay]

more mutliplier increase trist

Wait what ks her kit again

[pliant solar]

and that would make c2 100% uptime if u can fund it

[floral jay]

Cd decrease for skill wheb

N

[pliant solar]

theres chong but with 80 cost no way

[mystic linden]

use chongyun

[floral jay]

[pliant solar]

12/20 on her q makes me not wanna use it already

[floral jay]

[pliant solar]

praying the testers not knowing how to use her and call her trash so mhy giga buffs he multis

[floral jay]

Her energy gen is alr feelsbadman
Her Q require 80 er so you probably have to build some er on her

Just play physical shenhe ig

[pliant solar]

theres eula shen raiden qiqi but lol what quill damage

might as well just use rosa

[floral jay]

[limber dome]

How is Exorcist duo looking?

[floral jay]

Shen qiqi with eula sounds like a pain

[floral jay]

Its ok still trying to figure out how it works ig

[pliant solar]

i think u still have to diona for energy

which means eula rosa raiden qiqi ends up just being better overall since rosa also batteries

[floral jay]

why qiqi when diona tho?

[pliant solar]

for clam

its quite pog now

[floral jay]

whats other choice instead of qiwi

Qiqi

[pliant solar]

for clam or for the last slot in general

[mystic linden]

can qiqi even get 80 energy every 20s

[floral jay]

Last slot

And clam ig

[pliant solar]

with raiden eula and shenhe i think its ok

koko can clam but im pretty sure jelly isnt enough for the max healing

[floral jay]

assuming high er raiden, qiqi doesnt produce particle unless C2? still sounds like a pain why not john

[pliant solar]

she cant q either eula raiden already takes up all the field time

[floral jay]

I mean jean

Can jean even proc clam

[pliant solar]

only 1 tick

[floral jay]

Dies

[pliant solar]

afaik only koko and qiqi can use them reliably

cause team wide heals all count

[floral jay]

Fuck

Is there any competition to qiqi clam damage as off field?

[pliant solar]

for that comp?

personally i think sayu does gud damage off field with q

if she gets to chain react

for eula raiden probably not

[floral jay]

[pliant solar]

sitri said he will look into shenhe with eula raiden more after his trip

[floral jay]

sitri coming over to tc every cryo unit

[pliant solar]

probs not a fun one for him

[floral jay]

is there any time sitri dislike using his calculator

Other than destroying his brain with sheet impact

[pliant solar]

sounds very painful if u want to optimize every bit of her kit

still dont see a point in splitting up the e buffs other than to sell c1

[floral jay]

[dire ivy]

He will prolly enjoy it

[pliant solar]

a good challenge

[plush sleet]

I have a question can units activate Quills for other units?

Or do quills act as a direct stat increase to units?

[strong oak]

Under current assumptions Quills act as added MV akin to ZLs A4, just with limited application.
A unit can only proc their own Quills.

[plush sleet]

Understood

[floral jay]

how

[mystic linden]

looks right

that's a cracked benny though

[floral jay]

cracked benny is just high base atk with T10 talent

T12

[sour oriole]

yes p much maxed Benny, T12 tho

[floral jay]

Seems easy enough

[mystic linden]

sure if you happen to have aquila

[floral jay]

JUst get alley flash

Omw flexing my venti brb

[vast current]

Just whale.

[mystic linden]

who do you plan on using in the 4th slot?

[sour oriole]

XL if u wanna melt

not possible without XL

or Klee/Yanfei?

[mystic linden]

xl was what i had in mind when i did my calc, very different rosa stats, pretty similar results

[sour oriole]

as long as the rest of the team gets around 400k DPR

it's p good

[mystic linden]

i opted for 2 tap E since xl takes 20s anyway

[sour oriole]

u got 0 EM there?

[mystic linden]

0 from substats

400 between dbane and sands

[sour oriole]

oh ok didnt see

[mystic linden]

i'm expecting around 200k from reactionless xl, 100k from shenhe, maybe 50k from bennett, so around 900k total

[sour oriole]

yeah i have around ~200-220k from unreacted DM XL

Shenhe is 48k personal damage

[mystic linden]

if kazuha could fit in place of xl it would be a lot more dmg and shorter rotas

[sour oriole]

and, idk how Shenhe Q going to interact with the melts

[mystic linden]

but raikh tried a similar comp and the energy req on kazuha was ridiculous

[sour oriole]

to guarantee this comp to work you need perma pyro aura

and pyro is the weak trigger

[floral jay]

shenhe completely remove pyro aura

[mystic linden]

how? she does 1 cryo app out of 2 hits per proc

[sour oriole]

we dont how many units Shenhe Q tick is

what if it's 1 unit x 2 ticks

that will wipe pyro every time

[floral jay]

we can copecrafting

[mystic linden]

if it's 1u bypassing icd then we use shenhe for forward melt instead

[sour oriole]

wait sorry i forgot ICD im an idiot

but, with dual application from Shenhe and Rosaria

you need dual application of pyro at the very least

at the same duration of time

[true forge]

Quad scaling isn't something you can test until a unit launches right?
Pay it no mind if it sounds like a dumb question

It's just something that eru brought to my attention yesterday

[sour oriole]

noone's stopping u from doing the math

[frigid stump]

i think you can

[sour oriole]

just for curiosity sake

[frigid stump]

just we wouldn't know if there's a limit ig

[true forge]

The limit is the problem

[frigid stump]

I would say to go with 5

[floral jay]

i will watch this with great interest and cope because of how much copium i inhaled and i think the tea stimulant i drank earlier is starting to kick up my system since i havent sleep yet and its 547am

[frigid stump]

since there's only quad scaling units iirc, and the lowest limit is 5 i think, unless albedo actually has the lowest

[mystic linden]

pyronado applies pyro every 1s or so, should be enough for shenhe's burst with 2.5s cd and rosa's burst with 2s cd

might be iffy when chaining cryo E right into cryo Q but guoba can cover that interval

[sour oriole]

gauge wise it's enough (with Guoba), but im not comfortable with the timings and ticks

[mystic linden]

we'll have to wait til she's released to test

[sour oriole]

it's like trying to melt both Kaeya and Rosaria

[mystic linden]

it's plausible at least

[strong oak]

C6 Bennett and someone driving is also a possibility

[sour oriole]

yeah need to test release

[mystic linden]

also rosa/shenhe don't need to be on field so bennett can chip in with his E

[sour oriole]

so sweaty

[mystic linden]

you'll be doing bennett E into xl to battery her anyway

[sour oriole]

true

i think it sounds nice, but i dont like the idea of it

melt Rosa-Shenhe comp

[mystic linden]

worst case you do like raikh said and do the c6 bennett quickswap thing

i like it, it's a ton of damage for very few button presses and little required attacking on field

[floral jay]

This is so beautiful i got another piece that i wont be using

[mystic linden]

should be free to dodge or move when needed

[sour oriole]

it should be giga Rosa damage

we are using p standard Rosa

like 100k melt Rosa possible maybe?

[mystic linden]

it's a little lower than my melt ganyu rota but without the required 10 seconds of being in aim mode

[sour oriole]

it's lower than most calcs that I've done

just cos of missing one subDPS/DPS contributor

u are essentially using 2 Bennets

but still p good

i say lower, but pretty on par, Itto comp calc was similar range too

[mystic linden]

740k if i take bennett to max, rosa to 250cv, and give shenhe her special r1 spear

dbane r5 beats homa r1 at full life so i kept that

[sour oriole]

in essence, Shenhe is another Bennet that buffs your DPS into a different pool of damage for cryo

and melt is the best way to utilize her quill, a good melt quill is double or triple the number of a normal quill

im too lazy to calc the % for Ayaka on Bennet vs Shenhe, but Bennet will be better ig

[sour oriole]

that's p low ceiling for the investment, but still p good

[mystic linden]

investing in shenhe gives pretty low returns and there's no outstanding 5* spear for melt

[sour oriole]

at least it looks good without looking at things like C6 Ayaka or Shenhe cons

[frozen gate]

do we know what shenhe's BiS weapon/artifact set is?

[mystic linden]

technically it's her special spear but not by much

[scarlet drift]

BiS is obviously sig weapon but i think things such as wavebreaker and PWJS work too but obviously not as well

[frozen gate]

what about 4 stars?

right

[mystic linden]

like any other char that exists only to buff, you get less from investing in her than from investing in your dps directly

[frozen gate]

that makes sense

[scarlet drift]

prob wavebreaker, nothing else comes to mind

[frozen gate]

alright cool

as for artifacts?

[sharp gull]

Kitain for self sufficient energy Regen

[mystic linden]

4* would be wavebreaker, royal spear, or fav spear

[sharp gull]

She is 80 cost after all

[mystic linden]

she doesn't need damage substats so you're free to stack ER

[frozen gate]

that makes sense yeah

[scarlet drift]

noblesse, in theory is the best, soome ppl say 2pc shim 2pc glad. Her energy problems are always STC but idk i'm not the best one to talk about this stuff

[frozen gate]

stc?

[scarlet drift]

subject to change

[frozen gate]

oh ok

hmm i think noblesse would work

[mystic linden]

noblesse if your team doesn't have 4no already, 2shim 2glad otherwise

[scarlet drift]

this

tbf glad is a pain in the ass to farm

so there are always alternatives

[mystic linden]

just strongbox them

[frozen gate]

i want to build her as a support for my ayaka team, which she could be the sole noblesse user on

[scarlet drift]

yeah

[mystic linden]

it's how i farm noblesse these days

no need to deal with bloodstained drops

[frozen gate]

currently im using diona as a placeholder who has noblesse

[scarlet drift]

i don't have any 5 star cryo dps so i was hoping she would be a main dps

but tbh she could easily work with rosa or kaeya

[frozen gate]

ooh good suggestion

[mystic linden]

c2 rosa could be a good dps with shenhe

[frozen gate]

well i would be using ayaka as the dps

[scarlet drift]

I think imma run a freeze comp with rosa kokomi shenhe and fill

on the fence about sucrose anemo traveler or kaeya

[frozen gate]

oh yeah my team would be ayaka shenhe xingqiu jean

does that seem like a decent set up?

[scarlet drift]

instead i might run mona instead of kokomi so i can slot in jean

but it really depends imo

shenhe doens't really synergize with jean

[frozen gate]

jean is really just for healing and minor crowd control

does that still not work?

im f2p so i dont have too many options

[scarlet drift]

yeah but you would rather have kazuha sucrose venti imo

i could be wrong tho

[frozen gate]

my jean is c2 if that makes a difference

i dont have kazuha or venti

[scarlet drift]

i forgot what c2 jean did 💀

[scarlet drift]

same bro

[frozen gate]

same actually lmao

[scarlet drift]

but i started right as yoimiya banner ended so i don't have many 5 stars

[frozen gate]

ive been playing since the middle of the first childe rerun

[scarlet drift]

after i get shenhe

I WOULD go for ganyu

but she is so unbelievably boring imo

so i will prob go for ayaka

if she doesn't get in teh way of yae or kazuha

[frozen gate]

hmm

[floral jay]

I canr read italy

[frozen gate]

i dont know if that would affect it

[floral jay]

No thats france

[scarlet drift]

i don't speak french

sorry

[frozen gate]

oh sorry yeah its french

um so the first one

[floral jay]

[frozen gate]

^ yes that

[scarlet drift]

actually i thihnk

imma run

rosa chongyun kokomi shenhe

cause you don't really need vv

[frozen gate]

thats true

i could substitute barbara for jean maybe?

2 cryo 2 hydro team

hmm

or i could use bennett but that might affect freezing

[scarlet drift]

barbara is not it

imo

[frozen gate]

yeah 😭 thats why im sticking with jean

[scarlet drift]

I'm just waiting for monday

to see what the changes are

at least i was told that there would be changes monday 🤔

[frozen gate]

these are the characters i have

[scarlet drift]

sheesh

so i would run

ayaka rosa shenhe and hydro

[frozen gate]

you think so?

[scarlet drift]

you could replace rosa with sucrose??

but more likely than not since you don't have kazu u will you sucrose for another team

[frozen gate]

yeah my rosaria is level 20 for the acquaint fate so she is not really ready to be used

i could build her though

[scarlet drift]

another really sus team you could run is instead of rosa you go qiqi

actually no i think the ebst team would be ayaka diona shenhe and fill

[frozen gate]

nooooo not qiqi 💀

[scarlet drift]

fill being either hydro or anemo

[frozen gate]

well i want to have a freeze team so

i would go with hydro

[scarlet drift]

yeah

[frozen gate]

is having 3 cryo characters on the same team worth it?

and also diona and shenhe would both have noblesse so that doesnt seem right

[scarlet drift]

shenhe would then just run 2pc shim and 2pc glad

convert all the EoSF pieces into glad

[frozen gate]

hmm i guess

how about the new leaked artifact set for shenhe?

||glacier and snowfield||

[scarlet drift]

more likely than not isn't real

since shnehe isn't meant to set up reactions besides swirl and freeze

i mean tbf they could always make her quills universal 🤔

and that would change it

[pine heron]

it was a beta datamined set iirc

its on honey but that shit prolly never coming out

[frozen gate]

oh i assumed it would be added in ||the new region of inazuma|| for 2.4

i dont remember the name of it but

its like underneath

thats where the new boss for her ascension mats and stuff will be

[strong oak]

Glacier and Snowfield is in the files since 1.1 or 1.2, no real indication that its coming now afaik

[frozen gate]

right

[pine heron]

ye

[neat geyser]

Its been there since 1.0 beta

[pine heron]

damn

[strong oak]

even worse

[frozen gate]

does shenhe generate energy particles

[scarlet drift]

tap e generates 2-3 particles

i think hold e is 3-4

[frozen gate]

right

[coral onyx]

Didn't Uba say 3 tap, 4 hold for shenhe
and 2 tap, 3 hold for Yunjin?

[frozen gate]

so that means she could be a battery?

im not sure what the ideal amount of particles is

[coral onyx]

Yes it's atleast a good amount of particules, basically DIona level

[frozen gate]

okay so she would work

[mystic linden]

every other cryo has better particle generation though

except qiqi

and chong has the same i think

[coral onyx]

They don't? I don't think any of them have better particules/cooldown am I wrong?

[mystic linden]

ayaka and ganyu have 4 per 10s

rosa has 3 per 6s, kaeya has 4ish per 6s

[sour oriole]

Shenhe is 2-3 tap / 3-4 hold

if u only tap E once, that's like 2 particles per rotation at worst

you almost want to tap E twice per rotation for energy

[mystic linden]

it's not bad but for energy purposes i'd rather use any other cryo

[sour oriole]

no way u use Shenhe for energy

unless C1 ofcos

[frozen gate]

thats true, but shenhe has a better atk buff i think

which is the main thing im focusing on

she wouldnt be strictly for a battery, but she wont be horrible at it

[sour oriole]

C1 is a lot of particles though

[coral onyx]

Ok, I jsut tested Ganyu and it's random, each tick (2 ticks) of her taunt flower generates between 1 and 2

[sour oriole]

Shenhe cryo battery at C1

[frozen gate]

ideally id like to have her c2 but realistically im probably only going to get her c0

[coral onyx]

so 2-4 for Ganyu, heavily weighted towards 2 per tick probably 70-90%

[frozen gate]

being f2p makes it hard </3

[sour oriole]

pretty sure they have Ganyu particle generation somewhere in KQM lib

[coral onyx]

not going to test all of them but yeah then Shene is not particularly good at it
but she isn't bad

[sour oriole]

😔

[frozen gate]

i dont have ganyu anyways

[mystic linden]

i've never seen ganyu's lotus generate anything other than 2 particles on cast and 2 on explosion

they could look like 1 if stacked together

[coral onyx]

Don't know what to tell, I just did a dozen time and got 1 particule on 2 of those different tick

but it's like 90% yeah

or more I guess

KQM data on it, A4 Kaeya gives lots of particules

[frozen gate]

what is a4

[coral onyx]

if E freeze he get more particules produced

[frozen gate]

oh cool

i mean i dont need to much energy for ayaka, ive never really been short on it for her

too*

[coral onyx]

Damn I don't have Ayaka, she really does 4-5 on her E? MHY really didn't give a fuck about making her so extremely strong

[pine heron]

Yea her particle gen is nuts

[frozen gate]

mhm its nice

there is a 10 second cd though </3

[pine heron]

imagine if it was beta slow cast time doe

[frozen gate]

and its only a single instance of dmg

it does hit very hard though, ive gotten 40k on it

[coral onyx]

it should be at best 3 but more like 2-3 to stay in line with some other chars with 10 sec
4-5 is what the good battery have on their 15sec CD

[frozen gate]

so its still cracked then?

[sour oriole]

imagine C1 Shenhe with 60 energy Q

[pine heron]

About C1

Are we sure it's an charge of E, or a use like Diluc E

EN moment

[coral onyx]

Oh that's why she only gives 2-4, god I hate how mihoyo design character and then takes things away for const

[sour oriole]

Shenhe C1 is 2 tap E 1 hold E in a rotation

[frozen gate]

do we have any ideas who will be on the 2.5 banners?

because that will heavily impact whether or not i wish for her constellations

[mystic linden]

we'll be due for inazuma char reruns by then

[frozen gate]

ooh

so i might

not then

because i want kazuha

[coral onyx]

Do we even know how it works CD and stacks wise? that's for a 25sec rotation right? 15sec

oh nvm

[sour oriole]

hold E, tap E -> E goes on 10s CD -> tap E, in a ~20s rotation

might not work that way

[coral onyx]

wait no that doesn't work you have your E back up for the next rotation

[sour oriole]

but C1 Shenhe is what Shenhe should be energy wise for baseline 80 energy cost

next rotation you get normal E amounts

[coral onyx]

with that you have atleast 25sec of cooldown time, you won't have your E ready for the start of the next rotation

[frozen gate]

does shenhe really need that much energy on an ayaka team?

to support ayaka i mean

[coral onyx]

then it's not a 15-20sec rotation, you are talking about 45-50 sec rotation because they have varations in them

[sour oriole]

someone did the calculations before, but double cryo without battery is usually very rough

[frozen gate]

oh

so i might need the c1 then

[sour oriole]

baseline is 2 tap Es

[frozen gate]

hmm well my pity is 54, without a guaranteed 50/50

[sour oriole]

eh maybe wait for calcs first before going C1

[frozen gate]

I'm going to skip all of the banners before her

do you think i could get her constellations as a f2p player?

her c2 looks really good

however i have never won the 50/50 before, so im not super confident in that

[sour oriole]

you might benefit more from getting more units if ur a new player, and f2p

[frozen gate]

im not really new

[sour oriole]

which is the general wisdom, not just with Shenhe

but if u like Shenhe and 100% wants to play her, her cons are nice

[frozen gate]

im ar 55, joined during childe's first rerun

[scarlet drift]

do you think shenhe reach at least albedo's level in terms of supporting

I just want more ppl's thoughts

[frozen gate]

i dont know much about albedo other than the fact that hes hot

[sour oriole]

yes in my opinion, but she's more focused on cryo teams

[frozen gate]

lmao

[scarlet drift]

i would say another characters but 5 star supports are all broken except for qiqi and arguably albedo and jean

i think mona is a better comparison

[frozen gate]

oh yeah absolutely, she's a support character for a cryo dps, i wouldn't use her for anything else

[coral onyx]

what I was trying to gauge was how long the rotation is for C1 to know if it can really be exploited as much as possible
A C1 rotation with Ayaka+Venti for example is going to be very different than one with Ganyu, in part because of their CD on burst but also when you want to burn that C1

[sour oriole]

her C1 is not just for energy, it's for E double dips (E/Q bonus and NA/CA bonus) also for E duration extension flexibility to cover CA/NA spams, also synergy with C4 and C6

[scarlet drift]

do the buffs and quills stack on c1

like

if i hold e hold e

does it grrant me 14 quills or 7 quills

[coral onyx]

We don't know, lots of things we don't know about C1

[scarlet drift]

and does it give me a 15 or 30% skill and burst increase

ok

wait there will be changes to her kit on monday right?

[coral onyx]

the wording on "you can use E 1 more time" isn't really descriptive

restrictions on it will determine gameplay

if you can Hold E switch to Venti+ayaka, switch back and reuse E into their burst for example would be really strong, but it may not work depending on how they implemented C1 shenhe

[sour oriole]

it shouldnt

well we dont know

but if it does, it's huge

[scarlet drift]

sac polearm when

[sour oriole]

NEBER

[coral onyx]

Yeah pretty sure no buff in this game stacks, just refresh duration

[vagrant cargo]

Every day shenhe's kit information out i just want ganyu even more than her.

I wish i can get them.both but i cannot afford the 2 .

[vast current]

What’s this about Monday changes?

[strong oak]

We gte new Beta Builds on Mondays

So if changes come, we should see them on a Monday

[pale root]

exciting, lets see if Mihoyo changes something

[floral jay]

What do you think they really should change or buff

I felt like the numbers are meh and i mean... The cooldown is high for the skill probably going to have a er issue with energy particle regen

Also burst er cost dies

[strong oak]

Not sure honestly. I don't think she is weak, just a bit awkward and broadly speaking somewhat unintuitive.
Main issue I see is that she has pretty rough competition for being so specialized so the obvious thing to do would be to increase her Quill damage, maybe even her own MVs a bit.

Energy doesn't seem catastrophic. Sure less energy cost could be nice, but if really needed or a huge deal, I doubt it

[floral jay]

[strong oak]

There are ofc a number of ways to go about the specifics of her Quill mechanics, but those are more fundamental changes where I'm not really keen on making my own fanfic for that

[floral jay]

Still waiting for more explanation but others about her kit

It seems still confusing for quills thing mechanics

[plush sleet]

The single thing I’d change about her quill mechanic is so that a unit could get the damage increase after dealing an instance of cryo damage and not just get the increase only on cryo damage.

[pine heron]

yea lmfao... and I think of a bunch of random shit and just keep it to myself

[vast current]

More quills, half CD.

[rich garden]

Anyone know shenhe arti and weapon build like

[floral jay]

Iirc its either 2glad2shime or 4bs or 4eosf

Unless im mistaken

You build Atk/atk/atk

But maybe you should wait for shenhe adjustment or buff

[drifting vigil]

This

I hate Ayaka for being babied by miHoYo

Just gave her everything

[drifting vigil]

I think the best thing would be to boost her own damage quite a bit. Increasing her buff strength seems like it'll be too much, but maybe too much doesn't matter to miHoYo if you're C6-ing a 5 star

[hallow flower]

she only really fits in the freeze archetype though

[drifting vigil]

I don't think that's really the case or that that makes it "ok" if it were

Not like freeze is so restrictive anyway

[coral onyx]

Or with Venti, or with ZL, or with a bit more time spent on positionning

[hallow flower]

shes more restrictive than her other cryo peers for teams imo

[coral onyx]

Yeah we disagree, she is even used as somewhat quickswap melt now

[floral jay]

Venti swirl pyro and use shenhe

[drifting vigil]

I'm glad for Shenhe's existence though

Or soon-to-be

Soon, we will have all forms of Keqing

Waiting on Hydro infuse

https://tenor.com/view/keqing-keqing-genshin-genshin-impact-liyue-genshin-gif-19192014

[vagrant fable]

waiting for anemo infused iron sting 4p vv keqing

[drifting vigil]

My love for Keqing is so great, I am going to C6 Shen just to play her in a new way 😔

[vagrant fable]

speaking of c6, icy quills description seems to specifically nerf morgana interaction... but then C6 says "enjoy your morgana"

[drifting vigil]

Idk if it was a mistranslation or if it was actually a nerf but

Before Honey descrips were updated in english

It seemed to imply that it uncapped icy quill stacks for both skill/burst and normal%charged

But now obviously it's just normal/charged

[vagrant fable]

ohh that's interesting

[drifting vigil]

just referred to instance of cryo damage

Instead of normal/charged attack

[vagrant fable]

u mean in the CN description?

[drifting vigil]

I dont remember 100%, but maybe it was that or both

I was cross referencing both obv

[vagrant fable]

ahh

[scarlet stone]

For shenhe currently, product of sleep deprived, coffee fueled wolfram, as always, subjected to change, dont blame people if you pre-farm and it turn out to be wasted or suboptimal. Math is correct under its assumptions
Mainstat wise:

Go for ATK/ATK/ATK, it is the easiest option to farm and only fall behind quite insignificantly to ATK/Cryo/ATK. Numerically ATK/Cryo/ATK is better in almost all situations unless Shenhe manages to proc 20-30 quills on well invested carries, but ATK/ATK/ATK being so much easier to farm and shenhe damage is frankly so unimpressive that optimizing for her is not worth your resin and time.

Crit is not priortized on shenhe unless you somehow get 0 quill procs outside of shenhe herself.

Artifacts:
Shimenawa + Glad vs Blizz your 2 choices here:
If you can get consistent freeze off, Blizz is always better, if you cannot, then next condition is if you can get 9+ procs per rotation on a well invested carry or carries, then shime is better. Shime is a more appealing domain anyways, so just go for it and save yourself from Blizz hell.

Substat:
ATK%, Get ER% to ult off CD, when you get as much ATK and ER as possible, go for Crit to normal 1:2, but again, crit is NOT priortized.

Weapon, just grab the highest base ATK you can, she doesnt care about crit really. Favonius Lance and Deathmatch shows a 900 DPS difference, and you understand how cheap she is to build. Give her a fav, call it a day.

[leaden holly]

Very cool

[floral jay]

Cryo circlet

Just like how i like it

[floral jay]

Wait how about 4 EoSF with EL

[leaden holly]

Eosf with wavebreaker

[timber kiln]

.

you need her to have huge atk tho

[floral jay]

[timber kiln]

el id option but still not eosf

[daring tapir]

esof wavebreaker on a 896.88 MV move, that has a 20CD and next to no melt potential?

[chilly hinge]

didn't know this subchannel existed but I did want to pop in and say that my calcs for using shenhe in place of kaeya in rosaria meltswap are looking pretty good for shenhe so far, though the assumptions changing every so often as we learn more and more about her kit means I'll have to be updating my sheet for a while before I'd be ready to discuss the details

[floral jay]

This numbers ? I forgot where is the full post uma got

[chilly hinge]

I did my own and I can say that my numbers are pretty close to that but thats not mine

I have competition on the niche field of goth nun melt TC

[floral jay]

time to build rev melt rose ig

[floral jay]

[hallow flower]

just doing a micro update if sitri falls asleep before editing .
ATK/ATK/ATK is a perfectly fine option for shenhe with what my calcs are saying. the damage variation is very minor with aaa winning by like 1-2% in most situations. Since its usually 4x easier to get an atk% gob over a cryo one its recommended to use the atk% one on shenhe and then your good goblet on your actual cryo carries. In the end use the stuff with the better substats.

[scarlet stone]

i didnt

i forgot

i have genshin dailies

mf

[hallow flower]

[floral jay]

Lol

[hallow flower]

sheet showing worse case for atk/atk/atk; low CV on your units ganyu is actually not used in the calcs, so this is just venti ayaka shen + random hydro unit

[floral jay]

[dense field]

i remember reading something about what shenhe adds to the ganyu comp with atk/atk/atk, anyone still has a link to it or remembers what it says? Was something about 10k+ to charge shots, i think

[bitter kraken]

I'm also interested in the above question^ I still don't have ganyu so I'm debating whether to go for ganyu c1 or ganyu c0 + shenhe c0.

[drifting vigil]

Shenhe C0 ofc

[oak tide]

c1 ganyu is only for tryharding

[drifting vigil]

Shen still offers res shred

Not to mention damage bonuses

[oak tide]

and by tryharding i mean stuff like solo/duo ganyu abyss clears

[drifting vigil]

And potential other future uses

[floral jay]

Would rather go C0 shen + C0 gan instead of C1 gan tbh

Opinion ig

[bitter kraken]

Based on preference or utility/damage?

Oh just read previous msgs

So shen still provides more dmg than c1

[oak tide]

with 3.8k attack shenhe and 200% crit damage on ganyu, I get 10k added damage on a crit for ganyu damage from shenhe quill

[topaz raft]

So shenhe actually has low MV?

[oak tide]

her MV is spread out over the rest of the team

[topaz raft]

Really? What

First time I've heard of it

[bitter kraken]

Shenhe i read here is also easier to build it seems? With 2 shime 2 glad

[oak tide]

she gives each teammate extra cryo damage charges

she can only use 5 of them herself

the other 15 have to be used by her teammates

shenhe is probably very easy to build

if you're running 3 cryo units or 2+venti, 80 cryo energy isn't hard to fill

and for the rest she just wants attack mainstats

[bitter kraken]

What is MV?🙈

[oak tide]

76.75% at talent level 10

for each quill

[topaz raft]

Do we have a good compilation of shenhe skill description?

It's painful to read on honeyhunter

[oak tide]

her burst also has around a 900% total damage multiplier over 12 seconds at level 10?

[bitter kraken]

I was going for morgana team, but with sucrose until kazuha reruns. I guess ganyu shen mona sucrose is still good?

[jolly turtle]

wait she can use them herself?

[oak tide]

yeah

just pop her burst

[jolly turtle]

I thought she added them to nearby party members

[oak tide]

she is a nearby party member

[jolly turtle]

and i think normally that wording means not for herself

Oh wait yeah

[shadow rune]

Shenhe is a party member

[jolly turtle]

They actually use different wording when saying that buff doesn't work for yourself

[oak tide]

I think raiden's E has the same wording?

[topaz raft]

I'm actually confused about shenhe now

[jolly turtle]

ye mb

[bitter kraken]

They should just say "all party members" ahah

[oak tide]

well, nearby just means if you have co-op teammates it's not infinite range

[bitter kraken]

I see

[jolly turtle]

then i actually completely don't understand shenhe doomposting

she actually looks good?

[oak tide]

she's aight

[bitter kraken]

I think she's a good support for cryo dps but some were hoping her to be a dps?

[oak tide]

probably a cryo DPS support upgrade over rosaria

worth the primos? you decide

[bitter kraken]

So sacrificing diona in a morgana team for shen is alright?

[oak tide]

if you're okay with no healing

[shadow rune]

If u have enough particles sure

[oak tide]

she'll definitely beat mona against bosses that can't be frozen

[shadow rune]

She does healing shielding and particle generation

[oak tide]

so against unfreezable targets you could go triply cryo+anemo

[bitter kraken]

Got it

Might as well build both diona and shen then lol

I was worried more about interruption without diona's shield

[oak tide]

kokomi+shenhe also good

is it more damage that mona+diona? dunno

and usability will need live testing too

[bitter kraken]

I'll definitely wait a few days before pulling for shen yeah

[pine peak]

Quick question thats probably known to people here already but I didnt see about it in the pins or w.e; but do we know exactly how shenhe's extra dmg from e work? as in the damage is separate(kinda like cp), can crit (based on shenhe or triggering character), part of the triggering damage, increased from dmg% based on shenhe's cryo/skill dmg% or the triggering character's cryo/dmg%?

[jolly turtle]

It gives flat damage increase to the character triggering the extra damage that gets affected by all the bonuses and maluses (DMG bonus, crits, resistances and enemy def)

[pine peak]

You mean based on the triggering character's bonuses (dmg bonus etc.) rather than shenhe's right?

[jolly turtle]

yes

think about it like Zhongli's A4 or redhorn passive

but working on different characters and being based upon shenhe's attack

[pine peak]

Thanks for answering! a follow question considering that seems like she cares mostly about just attack, do we know if her bonuses snapshot? or no info on that yet

[jolly turtle]

what bonuses?

[pine peak]

I mean the buff she provides that deals the extra damage when characters trigger it

[jolly turtle]

like does her attack snapshot in her E?

I think that's the first time we have such an ability so i don't think we know

[pine peak]

as in, standing in bennet's burst, casting e, her not being on field and getting bennet's buff anymore but the damage she adds still benefits as if she has bennet's buff

[jolly turtle]

^

[shadow rune]

She doesn't snapshot

It says "current atk"

The e flat bonus dmg at least

[jolly turtle]

oh yeah actually

[pine peak]

I see, I'll assume that for now but considering mihoyo's previous wording and shit I'll take it with a grain of salt 😅

[unreal stump]

Just looking at her signature weapon kinda confirms that its current

otherwise why would it buff her when off field

[pine peak]

actually great point!

[dusky hull]

it doesnt go through MV?

[jolly turtle]

This is kinda like an MV increase on it's own, so no

[potent solstice]

how good could be callamity queller for Xl?

[floral jay]

Its meh iirc

Other option can be better

Wavebreaker,Dbane,Deathmatch

Among 5* EL,Homa,Pjws might still be better

[wooden stratus]

Hows shenhe looking with rosaria

[vast current]

Okay, Rosaria deals few enough damage ticks that she won’t be without Shenhe’s quills too long. Benny will still give Rosa more benefit because her base MVs are quite high and benefit more from ATK boost than getting a percentage of Shenhe’s ATK.

No reason you can’t run both of them together, but then you’re burning two supports to support an off-field DPS.

[dire ivy]

Sounds like xiangling

[floral jay]

Assumption is high end bennett T12 with rosaria melting. Let me just..

[mystic linden]

low end gear can still do 500k if you tap E twice instead of hold E once

[pale root]

i'm still not sold on the whole, super specific elemental-supports mihoyo being releasing ;-;

considering the Quill adds a flat dmg on top to increase MV, multiple smaller % will benefit more than single bigger ones... right? But that also goes against the 5/7 quills per character

[floral jay]

its just mihoyo ways of selling their "unique" character

Dont worry, theres going to be adjustment or buff probably for shenhe soon

[pale root]

its not about shenhe in particular, but we got a lot of those (Sara onwards)

[floral jay]

unique character

[strong oak]

Its basically irrelevant since its limited by Stacks, so the only thing that matters is that you get to use all of them, which is fairly trivial in this case.

If it was unlimited or consuming all Stacks would be a serious effort then hit count would matter a lot more

[livid spruce]

Well, at one point they will have nothing but to powercreep and after that some buffs to old characters.

[mystic linden]

i'm fine with element-specific supports since there are still multiple options for teams within each element

yunjin is probably more limiting than any element-specific support because so few chars want to use normal attacks

[chilly hinge]

the normal meta comp for rev melt rose in the past was kaeya/rosaria/xl/bennett (at least before kazuha) and my calcs show that shenhe outperforms kaeya pretty nicely in that slot since her buffs end up going so far for rosaria's damage that her low personal damage doesn't matter

[potent solstice]

Shenhe could be an upgrade for rosaria Ayaka permafreeze?

Ignoring the quills mechanic just her debuffs and buffs should make her "better" or isn't?

[mystic linden]

tried melt rosa rotations with ganyu placeholder and rosa EQ will sometimes overwhelm pyro app, making xl/bennett forward melt for a bit instead of her reverse melt

with rosa kaeya it doesn't really matter because losing a reverse melt to get a forward melt isn't a bad trade, but with buffed rosa w/ quills it's a dps loss

you can do E-N1-Q with C6 bennett to solve the problem but not everyone has or wants c6 bennett

[sour oriole]

hope launch testing will be better

[mystic linden]

also you have to do the awkward half second wait after switching in if you don't want her E or Q initial hits to miss bennett buff

[sour oriole]

I can't be bothered doing a triple Cryo Tao Shen comp calc

But if Shenhe app is strong it might be decent

Tao herself carry her own weight with melt

And Shenhe can use 2 other cryo slots

it will be weird if Shenhe actually frees Tao from XQ

[mystic linden]

tao melt will always be rng because when N1 applies pyro you have to reapply cryo before the charged attack

and that's a very small timing window

[sour oriole]

yeah

double ticks remember

add Kaeya

and Diona

[mystic linden]

only one of two ticks can apply cryo unless it bypasses icd

[sour oriole]

ah shit i keep forgetting ICD

[mystic linden]

diona app is awful

[sour oriole]

and Diona timing is bad too

copium territory

[mystic linden]

might as well use a hydro char like normal

so if you don't melt you vape

instead of screwing up every melt afterwards

[sour oriole]

nah it's not worth Shenhe's slot

see this is why she's anti fun

demands 3 slots

cryo only

[pine heron]

[sour oriole]

if they bump up her personal damage to 100k-200k range, then double cryo Shenhe comps will be more viable

[mystic linden]

it's already 100k-ish if you invest in her arti substats

it's just not worth the hassle

[chilly hinge]

I would expect Shenhe ult to apply less cryo than Ganyu since it has normal ICD and ticks less frequently, but doesn’t Kaeya not proc enough melts with his ult to to overwhelm the pyro? His is 5/13 melts while Shenhe should be 4/10 iirc

[mystic linden]

if her ult ticks every 2.5s it'd be 1 app on the initial slash and 5 on ticks

[sour oriole]

it's 2s

from two separate frame count/measurements

[mystic linden]

it has to be longer than 2s since it ticks 8 times in 18s, including once on cast

[floral jay]

Just have C6 benny and make shen the budget tao

[sour oriole]

there is only so much copium u can put into a comp

before it becomes cringe

[floral jay]

idk let me cope

[chilly hinge]

That’s at C2 though

[floral jay]

Can we get shenhe adjustment/buff already?

[pine heron]

soon maybe maybe not

[sour oriole]

actually... what if u play Melt Benny triple cryo Shen

[mystic linden]

what makes you think it ticks faster at c0

the only video we have of her is c2

[chilly hinge]

When making my sheet I referenced an old jinjinx video where he showed that Kaeya wouldn’t steal melts from Rosaria so that’s why I’m concerned since Shenhe should have less frequent cryo app than Kaeya

[strong oak]

5 ticks or 10 dmg instances in total doesn't make sense for C0 either if its supposed to last 12s, especially given the initial tick

[mystic linden]

just look at the invoker video with a 60bpm metronome going in the background

[floral jay]

melt benny

[strong oak]

SHould be 7 /14 if its 2s interval on 12s dur with an initial tick

[mystic linden]

it doesn't even remotely match the beat

[chilly hinge]

Oh i didn’t mean that it ticked faster

[sour oriole]

i though we had this already, jrm did a frame count on her ult, 1+10 on C0 and 1+16 on C2

[strong oak]

Which is why I'm confused, since that doesn't make sense for a 12s dur with a 2s tick interval

[chilly hinge]

Yeah that’s what I’m referring to, so at C0 with normal ICD it should 4 out of 10 ticks applying cryo right?

[floral jay]

Sitri is theory testing

Sus

[chilly hinge]

Unless the initial hit takes longer before the ticks start to come out

[strong oak]

it has an initial tick though

[chilly hinge]

Wait an initial tick immediately after the initial hit?

Hmmm this is getting confusing

[strong oak]

yeah, it was in the clips. But even with 2s delay it would be 6 ticks, not 5

[mystic linden]

idk why this is even up for debate

watch this video https://streamable.com/cvxdax

[lapis crow]

yeah, her ult ticks are stinky smh

[mystic linden]

run a 48bpm metronome in the background

perfect match every other beat

it's 2.5s

[strong oak]

Given it seems to apply cryo every second tick I'd be leaning to suggest 2.5 tick interval

since that matches the app

and the total ticks for both C0 and C2

[chilly hinge]

Frame counting isn’t my specialty so I’ll just have to follow what the consensus is

[mystic linden]

if you have to frame count something with a regular beat then idk what to tell you

[chilly hinge]

But even then the overall rate of cryo application should be less than Ganyu ult or Kaeya ult right?

[mystic linden]

more so if your framecount somehow contradicts the obvious

[strong oak]

Yeah, max rate would be 1 cryo every 2.5s

no way its faster than that

[chilly hinge]

I don’t mean any disrespect, I just wanted to ask about your original statement that Ganyu ult steaming melts from Rosaria would mean that Shenhe would steal melts

[mystic linden]

i said it's rng, it's more dependent on timing than how fast cryo is applied

because rosa E+Q itself is 4x1u cryo in a very short duration

[chilly hinge]

Yeah maybe during the E Q window there could be some stolen melts then

But not when the Q does it’s remaining ticks

[mystic linden]

problem is once you lose a melt, cryo becomes the aura and pyro the trigger

until you get two pyro apps close together

[chilly hinge]

Hmm then I’m not sure why the Kaeya variant manages to avoid that problem

[mystic linden]

it doesn't

it just doesn't care

because losing a reverse melt and gaining a pyronado melt is the same dmg

[lapis crow]

its 2.5 seconds from the start of every tick, but the start of every tick isn't necessarily when the tick hits

[strong oak]

As in the animation starts playing every 2.5s but the ticks itself are slightly delayed from it and each other?

[mystic linden]

keep in mind damage numbers are affected by ping

[lapis crow]

the first hits of every proc occur 6-7 frames after the start of the animation

i don't go by damage numbers

and 2.5 seconds is consistent if you're for say counting between the first hit between procs, because from the first hit of proc 1 to the first hit of proc 2 is 2.5 seconds, 2nd hit of proc 1 to 2nd hit of proc 2 is 2.5 seconds, and so on. But between the 2nd hit of a proc, and the 1st hit of the next proc, it's always around 2 seconds

[chilly hinge]

Then I’m somewhat confused since jinjinx says that rose with Kaeya in XL ult can melt 100% of her Q hits, so the pyro aura should be reapplied if her E Q initial cast eats too much pyro

[mystic linden]

maybe he staggers his EQ

[strong oak]

That makes perfect sense to me and would explain why some ended up counting a 2s interval

[mystic linden]

he's technically right anyway, it can reverse melt fully

it just won't do it every attempt

[chilly hinge]

Alright so for the purposes of speeadsheeting you could assume that it won’t be impacted by RNG

The rotation I modeled was bennett Q into Shenhe E Q, then XL E Q then Rosaria EQ and Shenhe E and Rosaria E recast when their CDs come up

[mystic linden]

also for example with my gear an unbuffed rosa loses 20k damage if one hit doesn't melt, but that hit will apply cryo for pyronado to melt for +23k damage, same overall result

[chilly hinge]

So as long as XL is well invested instead of an ER pyro slave it shouldn’t matter

[mystic linden]

with shenhe + rosa a missed melt loses 32k instead, which is bad

[chilly hinge]

Though Shenhe can’t buff XL so loses value

Makes sense

Right now I’m having Shenhe as better than Kaeya for 1-6 target scenarios (assuming no lost melts) but only better than Kazuha at like 1-2 targets because quadratic scaling and buffing XL gets pretty insane

[mystic linden]

makes sense

quills don't scale w/ # targets like an AoE ability can

i'm kinda fine with it, the hardest content we've been getting in abyss and events tend toward being single target

[chilly hinge]

Yeah, though the individual spike each quill has is enough to keep them relevant until higher target counts, as long as she isn’t compared to a quadratic scaler

Anyways I’m gonna go make dinner but thanks for clearing up the issue of melt ownership in this type of comp

[vast current]

More quills.

[sour oriole]

nah

keep quill

move C6 to C0

[vast current]

[mystic linden]

but my comp doesn't do normal/charged attacks

[vast current]

Sucks to be your comp.

[mystic linden]

what's the best way to abuse c6 right now, ayaka?

[strong oak]

Should be, Ayaka CA is 3 hits and if you have Ayaka C6 you can even attach a 300% dmg mod to 3 Quills every 10s.

[vast current]

's normal combo but cancelling the last hit into CA is 9 hits. You can probably run cryo ZL or XL with Chongus, too.

[lapis crow]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Va2JTdtw7OpagE-W0lY798YzUXFIu-aP9JOA3_OCUSQ/edit?usp=sharing

[lapis crow]

just for ease of use for anyone who needs

[leaden socket]

Doesnt a4 buffs any type of element? Or is this using the hold E version?

[chilly hinge]

Oh you’re right she’ll still get elemental burst and skill damage from press E (Shenhe is really complex so sometimes I forget off hand 😅)

[mystic linden]

hold up

does this mean if a character doesn't spend all the quills, using E again won't give extra quills?

wait no i'm stupid, this is only for her a4 bonus

[cobalt berry]

pardon me if this is a stupid question but what exactly does pyro invoker mean?

wait nvm i'm dumb

[leaden forge]

its the new abyss herald thing iirc

[cobalt berry]

is that the lector name

[lapis crow]

it's from the pyro invoker video

[cobalt berry]

ahhhh gotcha gotcha

[lapis crow]

the shenhe frames have been updated with NAs at 30fps with hitlag as well as averaged estimates to 60fps

[wooden stratus]

It's Monday! Is Shenhe still trash?

[twilit trench]

Wait for beta update

[wooden stratus]

Oh I thought it already updated since it's Monday now.

C0 buffs pl0x

[untold stirrup]

cryo keqing

[vagrant cargo]

I hate this feeling......this is like kokomi over again.

[untold stirrup]

or cryo zhongli/xiangling

[pale root]

Dont worry guys
If shenhe releases like shit
Just wait 2months until mihoyo release a specific broken artifact domain to fix her

[topaz raft]

Do we have a weapon ranking for shenhe?

I feel like she doesn't like Deathmatch

[vagrant cargo]

Kokomi:

[stark niche]

According to pins: Just go for the highest base ATK weapon.
She doesn't like CRIT too much.

[fathom trellis]

Phys shenhe?

Does it work or no

[true forge]

Kokomi has a meta team, a set, and is easy as shit to build

[vagrant cargo]

Yeah...im glad kokomi save her slot to the desired team comp

I hope shenhe will soon

[floral jay]

Check pins. Sitri has a tldr for now.

[stark niche]

Yeah but i don't think that sukoko was intended as a team tho, more like and accident team. Just from how hard and different team is supposed to be

[wooden stratus]

…what

What is an…intentional team

[stark niche]

Freeze with Ayaka, for exemple

Diluc with XQ

[wooden stratus]

I….still dont see it

[stark niche]

[wooden stratus]

So like

Freeze and amp

?

[stark niche]

More like characters intended to be use together by developer. Itto + Gorou is the most recent exemple of intentional sinergy we have.

[wooden stratus]

Ah

Then Kokomi/Beidou/Fischl/Xq is an “intentional” team then

Idk whats the dpr of it

Prolly like

600k?

Idk

[stark niche]

Probably I guess? Same with kokomi in freeze teams

[chilly hinge]

FAQ written by Sir_pick_the_prick#2209 and the Shenhe mains TC team https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jvhbzYW9HumSgTqwf0DdrUxTud6DpOO2ujHLZXBPTjc/edit?usp=drivesdk

[vast current]

Also, C6 review appears to be missing.

[chilly hinge]

yeah we didn't spend much time on cons, my sheet is just for press E which doesn't matter for C6 so we didn't look at it. I just plugged in C2/3/5 into my current sheet since those were easy enough to measure for buffing capability without massive overhaul of the assumptions/rotation

[true forge]

This is fucking gold omg

[pliant solar]

i dont really see a way where u can squeeze a lot of value from c6

also gotta know if it still works at 0 quills

since if u burst its all gone anyways lmao

[chilly hinge]

yeah thats something we'd have to playtest on someone like Ayaka or Ganyu

[pliant solar]

at first i saw it and was like yo that sounds broken

then i thought about the rotations

[short yoke]

Have to skip one of shenhe yae or ayato

[paper ice]

why only one

[topaz raft]

That reminds me
Wavebreaker fin exists

[short yoke]

At 32 pity with confirmed character

So I can get shenhe and try to win 2 50/50's

[vast current]

Maybe add emphasis on high base ATK weapons over weapons with high ATK% buffs for ATK-focused Shenhe since she’ll be stacking ATK% from many sources in that build.

[dense field]

So basically cryo albedo?

I see her replacing the 2nd cryo unit in ganyu freeze teams, but doesn't seem like it does anything to ganyu melt

Does every character get independent icy quill stacks, or are they shared?

Reading the docs seem like it's a good thing to have shenhe's Q get damage bonus from the quills

But if we want to give all the buffs to Ayala or ganyu it seems kinda bad?

[paper ice]

just skip everything instead

[coral onyx]

Read the skill description on Honey hunter

[pale root]

Yes
From what we understand
Every character gets their own stacks
Unless mihoyo fucked up the description even harder than usual
Thats how it works

[tame flare]

hey how come there is no analysis on C4 shenhe? Looking at it, it looks like that could make shenhe viable as a main dps shouldn't it?

[vast current]

It doesn’t give her any bonus to normal attacks nor does it allow her to use E or Q more often. It just adds a bit more damage on E after the first use.

You’re going to want to use E off cooldown to maximize quill uptime, so it doesn’t change her playstyle at all.

TL;DR: no, C4 gives you no more incentive to stay on the field longer than needed to apply quills/use Q.

[mystic linden]

i can see whales doing one-shot videos with c4 but nothing practical

[vast current]

Whales would be doing one-combo bosses with C6.

[chilly hinge]

it seems only relevant in extended rotations for now, so somewhat difficult to calc currently. I don't think it would be that great personally since the E doesn't hit that hard to begin with as you won't be building a lot of crit in most builds

[vast current]

How would you even get to 50 stacks on C4 anyways?

You get max 28 stacks with hold E and a team full of cryo.

Unless... C1 stacks quill count!?

[scenic lily]

is shenhe worth pulling for? what's a summary of how her kit works?

[sour oriole]

Double rotation

[vast current]

You consume stacks as soon as you use E again.

[sour oriole]

No just hold the E

If you want 50

Which is not practical

[scenic lily]

does she work like eula?

[vast current]

What do you mean, hold the E? Only E gives quills and E also consumes all marks.

[sour oriole]

Wait Ur right, to get more E stack U need to do more E

[vast current]

Confirmed C1 stacks quills.

[lapis crow]

C6

[vast current]

Cryo-specific buffer support. You can probably find a niche where she’s better than other options, but right now her niche is pretty specific and she doesn’t greatly outperform other dedicated supports in that niche, numerically speaking.

[lapis crow]

max stacks at C4 is 28, hold E, and use cryo NAs/attacks on all party members. NAs are just buffed by A4

[vast current]

get C6 to get max value out of C4.

marketing.

[scenic lily]

ohh okay thank you!! so she wouldn't work as a melt support? or like cryo applicator with no cryo resonance or anything

[vast current]

Her ICD is no better than options available now.

[scenic lily]

okay, thank you!!

[vast current]

[mystic linden]

650k melt is best i can imagine for her c6 boosted E

homa r5, kazuha bennett klee

maybe if we get a +60% cryo damage abyss floor it can hit 1mil

[chilly hinge]

We're not giving pull advice here, but right now she seems decent in teams with other well invested cryo DPS. Check pins for current FAQ that goes over how her kit seems to work to our knowledge so far

[scenic lily]

okay!! tysm tysm

[sour oriole]

who is this? Shenhe? max E stack C4?

[mystic linden]

yea

[sour oriole]

it's gonna be in 200-300k territory

then

it's like Ayaka E whale sceenshot per damage

the added MV also lines up with Ayaka's E MV

so get C4 to get Ayaka E

she is so weird, building her ATK based support vs trying to mainDPS at higher cons will be somewhat interesting and puzzling too

[mystic linden]

no you need c6 to build 50 stacks in any reasonable amount of time

i don't think mainDPS is ever an option

you have to build your whole team and rotation around her c4 damage and the payoff isn't enough to carry the whole rotation

not to mention you have to use all of ayaka/ganyu/whoever's skills to get 50 stacks and at whale investment what isn't already dead by then

[sour oriole]

not gonna be optimal if u aim for 50 stacks

there must be an acceptable sweetspot with around 20 stacks with a usable rotation

like if u want to mainDPS Shenhe at all cost and nothing will stop you, and you will get C6, how are you going to max her damage

[mystic linden]

assuming you have +100% dmg bonus baseline, 20 stacks is only 1.5x baseline damage

so 600% mv instead of 400%

[sour oriole]

she will compete with Ganyu for that spot, but let's pretend we dont care about that

[mystic linden]

that's less than a ganyu lotus does

and a ganyu lotus doesn't require the complicated buildup

[sour oriole]

she gets 2 charges so that's something

[mystic linden]

...so does ganyu

[sour oriole]

ugh fark, she needs Chongyun to even mainDPS

[vast current]

Yeh, she can't cryo infuse on her own.

[pine heron]

C4 really feel like it be treated like Eula burst (can't possibly reach the maximum stacks until you whaled for c6 for the ability to reach it)

[vast current]

Or... hear me out... C1 quill stacking.

[sour oriole]

i dont mind she has double quill amount

won't break her numbers I think

[mystic linden]

another 100k damage supporting ayaka would maker her clearly better than kazuha

[lapis crow]

does it say anywhere if C1 makes the activation stacks stack?

[mystic linden]

no but we're assuming no for now

[sour oriole]

it's only fair considering she supports cryo only

Shenhe should be the BiS Cryo buffer in cryo teams

anything other than that is just stupid

when Sara C6 is BiS electro buffer

[vast current]

Sara C6 is a better electro buffer than C0-C5 Shenhe as a cryo buffer.

[split nacelle]

it's interesting how they're super scared of powercreep

i agree that shenhe should at least be the go-to cryo support no questions asked

especially as a 5*

[sour oriole]

in triple cryo teams

to make sure it's not powercreep

and make her viable/good enough in double cryo flex

[split nacelle]

yeah

[sour oriole]

powerscale her numbers are good enough

she has the 'new player syndrome'

good enough for new players to pull but doesnt add too much for veteran players

[lapis crow]

if it did it would help her a lot, C4 can get the 50 with two hold Es, and a tap E and hold E gives both A4 buffs, but that seems too complicated to be true

[split nacelle]

makes sense, actually... still gonna get her because of waifu reasons

[sour oriole]

if you're a new player looking for your first 5* (and dont want Ganyu or Ayaka, or no access to their rerun until later) Shenhe will make Kaeya-Rosaria comp look pretty good

[split nacelle]

ohh true, just get shenhe with your free kayea

[sour oriole]

ye

[split nacelle]

add barbara and anemo mc, done

[mystic linden]

using either tap E or hold E refreshes existing buff if there's one

[sour oriole]

but that is no reason to make her as constrictive as she is rn

im just saying if you can somewhat tread the lines of being copium and using Shenhe properly

[mystic linden]

don't think she's that restrictive

[sour oriole]

she can be improved

also new players can use Shenhe-Kaeya-XL-Bennet nicely

[split nacelle]

there should be no reason for them to be this scared of powercreep... but i guess they can only go to the extremes sometimes

i'm actually liking the idea of dedicated elemental supports, but idk it feels incomplete or not properly thought out

[mystic linden]

she'll be better than half the 5*s we've gotten since 2.0

[split nacelle]

Gorou looks great but also not every geo is def scaling

[chilly hinge]

I modeled a version of that comp with Rosaria (who can melt more of her damage relative to Kaeya) and it looks pretty promising. I could do a Kaeya version (already have him in the sheets just need to add quills for him)

[split nacelle]

it depends on where though... Raiden is more universal, Kokomi is getting better now, etc.

[chilly hinge]

It’s just painful since you have to redo the rotation calcs for multi target scenarios which gets tedious

[split nacelle]

in her intended role, most likely yeah

[sour oriole]

energy is one thing i definitely think they should improve

and i dont like how severe the split between her support and personal damage

[coral onyx]

Hum, you're right Kaeya actually probably benefit well from Shenhe

[vast current]

Shenhe is a 5* and Sara is a 4*. If nothing else, Shenhe should be better at buffing cryo than Sara is at buffing electro, or otherwise the former should be a lot less restricted.

[sour oriole]

They can also make her quill work with physical

That will open up a lot of things

[vast current]

ZL phys carry.

[sour oriole]

I wondered why the rest of her kit that buffs physical is lackluster, and hold on, they basically removed physical quill from her E

[vast current]

I mean, cryo debuff still exists in Eula's kit.

[split nacelle]

yeah but eula is not a support

so the shred benefits her own dmg mainly

it would be nice to have more utility on shenhe so she's a bit better in other comps

just as an added bonus i guess

[pine heron]

Extremes are what they love apparently

a lot of things they do get pushed too far into one direction

[dusky hull]

mihoyo's fear of powercreeping is just actually make older character more valuable, its just make them more MUST HAVE chara

[short snow]

eh not rly, shenhe's kit is not that bad, same could be said for the recent characters that had their fair share of controversy.

[dusky hull]

i just feel like some of the recent char is downgrading, i think mihoyo should make *5 char as good as the older

[short snow]

they are

maybe not yoi but shes still decent

[short snow]

you should be more concerned with how they're treating the 4 stars

though gorou and yunjin looks promising

[dusky hull]

not kokomi on her initial release xd, but now she's decent

[short snow]

clam set or not her top team still works

sukoko wasnt as hot during her release cuz everyone was blinded by the no crit dooming

[mystic linden]

kokomi has one niche until we get another aoe off field hydro user

her being usable says more about how limited our hydro options are than anything else

[split nacelle]

I'm sure things will change over time as new artifacts and weapons come around to give more options, but they are clearly being careful and that's both good and bad IMO.
You can still use older/free characters and do just fine, but also promotes all the doomposting and toxicity we have when anything new comes out

[drifting vigil]

I'm back reading chat from past two days, but holy crap, I didn't think of this

Cryo Keqing > Ayaka? Wait a minute...

[drifting vigil]

Yoi OP with Yun Jin

[pliant solar]

it could work

[drifting vigil]

If triple Maguu Kenki ever returns