Shenhe Thread

[strong oak]

She should, but I highly doubt its worth it over putting it on an actual DPS

[compact raptor]

Hmm ya

[strong oak]

Especially since her own ATK will already be massively inflated

[compact raptor]

I think i will still stick with magic guide tho for the em

[compact raptor]

I am still surprised they didn't give her the highest base attack in the game

For weapons options for her
The best 4* should be wavebreaker fin?

Even if the passive doesn't work it has the highest base attack value between polearms currently i think

Not counting her weapon

[strong oak]

Wavebreaker, Lithic or Fav are her 4* options, yeah

Skyward Spine and PJWS are also good ATK sticks among the 5*s

[compact raptor]

Ima start working on her team and her equipment then she seems pretty straightforward to build
I just need to figure out how to build chongyun

[strong oak]

Haven't actually looked at Vortext Vanquisher, yet, that also has a ton of ATK

[hallow flower]

stacking pjws is a pain though

[compact raptor]

Lavawalker or noblesse and blizzard?

[strong oak]

Don't need to stack it. Just grabbing it for the 48 Base ATK

[hallow flower]

yeah but dead passive is pretty

[mystic escarp]

Yeah, high base attack weapons in general look quite good on her. They gain a lot of value due to her potentially running 3x mainstat Atk% artifacts

[compact raptor]

Her ascension stat is also atk% don't forget

[strong oak]

Will be the norm if you don't have her signature

[mystic escarp]

Though at first glance she doesn't seem to scale extremely well with her own investment, it almost seems as if she scales better with the investment levels of other team mates

[compact raptor]

It's weird seeing a very specific support character being a 5*
I thought all of them will be 4 star

Like gorou

[compact raptor]

It's just she is a support honestly

[strong oak]

Yep. Since she just stacks ATK linearly her growth diminishes pretty hard

[compact raptor]

Benny would be useless supporting a level 1 character

[strong oak]

And the multiplicative modifiers that scale way better come from her Team

Her true nature is basically that of a Bennett-like Support

Just looks awkward bc her contribution is calculated like that of a Sub DPS

[mystic escarp]

On field NA Chonygun uses 4p Glad, if you use him for his burst only, he uses either 4p NO or 2p NO & 2p BS

[compact raptor]

And she is element specific

[compact raptor]

I still dk what i want him to be
The team is gonna be shenhe chongyun sucrose and benny

Do i want to put all the investment into burst

Or should i at least make his autos a little bit useful

I think i will get more damage from the artifact sets that boost the ult

Which is why i am considering lavawalker

[mystic escarp]

I guess it depends on how you want to spend Shenhe's E stacks? If you want to do quad melts with Bennett & Shenhe, then 2p BS 2p NO might be better

[strong oak]

Sucrose and Bennett screams melt, which would heavily favor his Q

[mystic escarp]

but Chongyun carry is pretty scuffed, let me tell you that, coming from a fellow Chongyun main

[compact raptor]

Ya i think i should just focus on burst

Ima not use lavawalker tho ima try and get 2 piece noblesse 2 piece blizzard

That would still boost his autos

A little

I hope the cryp dps characters in the future are more interesting than ayaka and ganyu

I need to get one but honestly ayaka and ganyu are boring

[mystic escarp]

Maybe they designed Shenhe for some future character, I've tried really hard coming up with non-scuffed teams she could fit into, but it's pretty rough unless you want to not run a healer

And not running a healer won't be a possibility in the 2.4 abyss with boss enemies on one side and those pyro lectors on the other side

[compact raptor]

Qiqi is becoming a decent character now all of a sudden with the new set and healers being needed

But ya i will be super angry if 2.5 immediately brings a cryo dps that combos well with shenhe

[idle thistle]

hopefully she gets some changes during the beta

[compact raptor]

Who shenhe?

[idle thistle]

the hit limit on her buff is really hurting her

yeah

and only cryo

[compact raptor]

Nah i think the hit limit is a good addition to the game

[idle thistle]

ayaka and ganyu's burst has so much hits

[mystic escarp]

Yeah, I think her numbers need to be high enough so she's worth running in a double cryo team as well. Currently they're so low you want 3 or even 4 characters that can make good use of her E

[compact raptor]

Now not all buffs will be just broken bullshit until a period of time ends

[idle thistle]

has anyone calced how much does her buff does per hit?

[compact raptor]

I think someone did yesterday i don't remember tho

[compact raptor]

But remember that her buff is gonna go through the buffed character multipliers

It's not an individual tick like cresent pike

[mystic escarp]

I've seen 3-10k floating around depending on the character that procs her E and the number of additional buffs like VV/Omen

the damage difference is huge though depending on the character and the investment level

[idle thistle]

plus it's limited to cryo based atk only

[compact raptor]

It's very unfortunate to say but shenhe got the short end of the stick
Yunjin is the 4* but she seems better

But it's in no way saying that shenhe is bad

She is also pretty good

[mystic escarp]

I also had a hard time figuring out a team Yunjin could fit into well, they both seem fairly niche or made for characters that aren't currently in the game it feels

[potent solstice]

could her 10% burst buff, 15% shred and 10% cryo damage be an upgrade to rosaria in ayaka permafreeze?

[compact raptor]

@mystic escarp yunjin is made to support auto attackers

Ppl like Yoimiya noelle fit pretty good with yunjin

[mystic escarp]

Yeah, but there's barely any NA carries in the game, right? It's pretty much Noelle or Yoimiya

and replacing anyone in a Yoimiya comp sounds rough, as Bennett & VV are almost mandatory

but either way, that's the Shenhe thread, not the Yunjin one

[compact raptor]

Yaaa

[idle thistle]

i just dont see when can you utilize her stacks properly, other than rosaria melt? ganyu and ayaka has too much hit counts in non melt comp, and with melt u'd rather have kazuha/bennet

[compact raptor]

C6 fixes that problem
Unfortunately it's C6

[idle thistle]

i can see her passive working with C2 chong at C0

[strong oak]

Hit count doesn't really matter as long as Crit and dmg% modifiers are high. On the same modifiers Shenhe contributes the same amount of dmg on a Rosa as on an Ayaka

[idle thistle]

for the 100% uptime

[compact raptor]

I see

But honestly i really like the direction of new supports

They are released to buff 1 thing 1 archtype of characters

Not something like bennett that is basically mandatory in 90% of content

[idle thistle]

for a 4* support it might be ok. But for a 5* niche support, kinda like a whale/dolphin only pull.

[mystic escarp]

They probably have to take that route with supports. If they keep releasing universally good supports, there will be some broken interactions between them at some point. Either that or they have to severely limit the creativity of said characters' kits

sounds like a balancing nightmare

[compact raptor]

Not really
Compare gorou to shenhe
Gorou only buffs DEFENSE scaling geo
Meanwhile shenhe buffs all cryo character

I wouldn't call shenhe niche

[strong oak]

I would. Her Support not only hinges on jsut having a Cryo unit to Support but she wants a Team where multiple units can leverage her Stacks.

Atleast currently she doesn't look tuned highly enough to be amazing with just 1 unit to leverage her Quills.

Unless that unit has completely absurd multipliers to abuse

like C6 Ayaka

[idle thistle]

unless we get a mono cryo comp soon

[compact raptor]

Idk but she is definitely not super specific like 4* supports like gorou

[idle thistle]

gorou has bonus for every geo

[mystic escarp]

It depends on how you look at it I guess

[idle thistle]

with 3 geo comps

[compact raptor]

A 15% bonus that shenhe also gives for all characters in the game with her E

[strong oak]

Gorou supports Geo in general and more specifically DEF scaling Geo units.
Shenhe supports Cryo in general but wants Teams tailored around abusing her Quills

[compact raptor]

If u r a geo that doesn't scale with def then gorou is useless

[mystic escarp]

On the one hand she's not super specific as she can theoretically buff every cryo unit. But in reality her values are so low that she can only realistically work in teams with multiple cryo units, preferably Blizzard Strayer units that have a crazy amount of multipliers

[idle thistle]

and he's a 4*

[compact raptor]

Ya i am saying shenhe is less specific than the 4* supports like him

[strong oak]

Their range of application seems similar to me.

[mystic escarp]

I guess she could work quite well in Melt teams too, they can abuse her E even better as they can amp it

[idle thistle]

^

Ganyu shenhe bennet kazuha will probably be new ceiling?

[compact raptor]

Can we make cryo keqing with shenhe and just call it a day?

[strong oak]

Melt Teams make Shenhe's energy a nightmare

[compact raptor]

Her burst isn't needed that much tho?

[strong oak]

Hard to set up properly, slot wise

[idle thistle]

80 energy not that much?

[mystic escarp]

Oh yeah, Shenhe Q can somewhat ruin melt as well

at least reverse melt

[strong oak]

Like sure you cna skip on her Q in Melt

[idle thistle]

her Q is what? 10% cryo dmg right?

[strong oak]

But it still isn't immediately obvious to me how you set a RevMelt comp up that has all the pieces it needs while including Shenhe

[strong oak]

and 15% Cryo/Phys shred

[compact raptor]

15% cryo res decrease at level 9

Cryo/phys

[strong oak]

• her means of triggering her own Quills

[mystic escarp]

Yeah, RevMelt obviously has mandatory slots for cryo carry / VV user / pyro aura / healer

I don't see Shenhe fitting in there, like ever

[compact raptor]

[mystic escarp]

Her numbers would need to be high enough to be able to replace VV

[idle thistle]

her DoT mvs doesnt look impressive either

[mystic escarp]

or we get a healer as a decent pyro aura

[idle thistle]

how many hits per tick?

[strong oak]

You can try Rosa/Shenhe/Kaz/Ben but I wouldn't be convinced it would be an amazing comp

[idle thistle]

2 or 3?

[strong oak]

2

her Q dmg is pretty trash

for a 80 cost

Probably a tad more respectable once you count in her own Quills

since she can only proc them via her Q

[idle thistle]

wait, even with C6 she still can't buff ganyu / ayaka's Q fully

since it's only for NA and CA

[strong oak]

She doesn't need to, since its added flat dmg and not a dmg multiplier

[idle thistle]

i mean

what is the use for her c6 then

cryo NA carries

[strong oak]

Ayaka and Ganyu can leverage it for some extra Quill Procs on the second E of the rotation

[compact raptor]

Idk anymore honestly if i want to skip or pull

I guess ima wait for release

[idle thistle]

yae coming after doesnt help either

[strong oak]

My primary gripe is that if you have both Ayaka and Ganyu its hard to fit her in

If you only have 1 she should be a fairly reliable second Cryo option

[mystic escarp]

I'm just really sorry for all the Shenhe mains who have waited for an entire year, maybe saving for many months. And now she ended up being an E-Q bot that only theoretically works in niche teams that don't exist yet

[idle thistle]

was ready to pull for shenhe, but as of now looks scuffed. At least based on whatever data we have now. Still can't see a comp where you would "ah, Shenhe would be great here!"

[mystic escarp]

Hopefully they fix her numbers, I think that's all she needs

[idle thistle]

has beta started alrdy?

[mystic escarp]

Yes

[compact raptor]

Problem is if u skip shenhe
And then a main dps that works with her comes out

:)

Like we still don't have a cryo catalyst if an auto attack one comes out wouldn't shenhe be great with them

[idle thistle]

||signora||

[strong oak]

At C6 yeah, before it doesn't matter at all

[idle thistle]

[mystic escarp]

Even if a tailor-made carry comes out for her, she's still everything but mandatory. She can be replaced by other units, you just lose some team DPS. She doesn't really enable any new team comps, really

besides mono cryo possibly?

[compact raptor]

[strong oak]

I mean you can say the same for Bennett in comps where he doesn't also battery. Kinda boils down to how large the dmg difference is

[sour oriole]

they only need to bump her buff/proc value to make her viable in double cryo comps

[pale root]

Mono cryo would need another cryo shreder
Like ganyu c1 but yeah

[sour oriole]

and then Shenhe team comps will be really good

[pale root]

Between ganyu c1 + shenhe Q is enough to skip VV

[mystic escarp]

Of course, you're right. It's just that right now that damage difference for Shenhe looks to be very much negligible

[strong oak]

You also skip the grouping which might be the larger issue, especially for Ganyu

[sour oriole]

rn she struggles to justify her place in triple cryo

like barely making 300k DPR

[pale root]

Yeah...

[idle thistle]

she kinda has to give better numbers to cryo than what kazuha can in any elements

[strong oak]

Depends on what investment you are looking at

[compact raptor]

I just want to ask a question rq
Just to make sure

Qiqi shenhe will be very very very copium right

[pale root]

We gotta wait and inhale copium waiting for her beta changes

[idle thistle]

anything qiqi is copium to me

[strong oak]

horrible energy and Qiqi doesn't have any particular snyergy with Quills

[compact raptor]

As expected

[mystic escarp]

I don't think Qiqi can ever work in any comp that doesn't include Raiden

I calced Eula/Raiden/Qiqi/Rosaria and even with double Fav proc per rotation I had Qiqi hat almost 150% energy requirement

[compact raptor]

Ok last try is
Diona with shenhe??

Diona E might be useful

Idk

[strong oak]

Qiqi basically works as a Clam Bot in some comps. Outside of that she is still Qiqi

[sour oriole]

Shenhe is best in a team with Ayaka/Ganyu

highly invested Ayaka or Ganyu

[strong oak]

Diona ofc works, but to leverage Quills you need to build Crit and dmg% on her

[compact raptor]

I mean her acension stat is dmg%

[strong oak]

Ayaka is the absolute premier DPS for Shenhe

[compact raptor]

And her C4 reduces charge time

[strong oak]

(If you have Mistsplitter)

[sour oriole]

Ayaka can use her kit thoroughly

[compact raptor]

I think i am super high on copium that i am actually considering building diona dps

Just for shenhe

[sour oriole]

Shenhe cons even look like to be paired with Ayaka

[strong oak]

Shenhe doesn't look powerful enough to make Cope Cryo DPS really better

[compact raptor]

How much damage can every paw do in diona's E and how much increase would she get from shenhe?

[strong oak]

She is definitely tailored towards Aya and Ganyu. Ganyu just lacks that ultra fat Crit Stick weapon. New Signature maybe

[sour oriole]

btw if u have time, try some quick sheets for

triple cryo Shenhe Tao

and triple cryo Shenhe XL

[strong oak]

Rev Melt or what is the plan?

[sour oriole]

yeah

[compact raptor]

I need a diona damage calc all of a sudden now

[sour oriole]

also outside what's already been calced/assumed best Shenhe comp (Ayaka/Ganyu variations), Eula Shenhe Rosaria - flex might be another good place to calc

maybe flex electro for SC

or flex hydro

[strong oak]

I already looked into Quad Melt CY Quills. Generally though I'd need to figure out how Triple Cryo RevMelt works since I don't see that being stable, maybe with Klee idk

Eula-Shenhe def works

[sour oriole]

i think people still bring XQ for melt Tao as it can't be a pure rev melt comp

for XL i doubt it will rev melt cleanly too

[strong oak]

but Shenhe+Rosa is likely lower dmg than what we have right now, since you have no Healer at that point, thus no SC and Eula lacks dmg% to leverage Shenhe Quills well

Shenhe would basically have to replace Rosa imo

in Eula Comps

[sour oriole]

sigh, just bump her Quill MV or count MHY

[strong oak]

Let me pull up the nubmers as a comaprison

[sour oriole]

also if u want another copium Shenhe comp

triple cryo Shenhe Chong - XQ

[strong oak]

From a R5 SS Eula with 99/198 I get ~7.3k Quills
From a R1 Mist Ayaka with 100/273 I get 17k Quills

same investment level

[sour oriole]

Eula might get a bit of boost in phys for Q too, but that diff is huge

[strong oak]

Shenhe shreds Cryo and Phys all the same. And Eula has more Phys shred than Aya Cryo shred in their respective Teams

[sour oriole]

273/17k Quills a bit too high for my taste

[idle thistle]

quill is cryo dmg right?

[strong oak]

Yes, by nature of beign whatever dmg type procs them

[sour oriole]

as it would apply through cryo damage applications yes

[strong oak]

which can only be cryo

[idle thistle]

oh it;s added to the number huh

aight

[strong oak]

Thats why its so stupid with C6 Ayaka

[sour oriole]

Raikh do u think MHY designed themselves to a corner

the floor is too low and the ceiling is too high

[strong oak]

C6 Ayaka gives 300% CA dmg, since Quills triggered by CA also take CA modifiers you can think of the rest

[idle thistle]

first whale exclusive character? kekw

[sour oriole]

they have to tweak her kit and not just change the number at this point

[idle thistle]

but then again, raiden got her Q change during beta

[strong oak]

Funny story: I was talking to someone about a broken Buff in the game Code Vein called Bridge to Glory. And he wanted to make a Fanfic based on that since its so stupidly broken and hard to tune.
Shenhe and Yunjin basically work exactly like that Buff

[idle thistle]

so theres hope

[sour oriole]

Raiden is just number shuffling, they didnt change how her numbers interact with her kit

if MHY buffs Shenhe with higher numbers, yes her floor will increase, but her ceiling will increase as well

[idle thistle]

didnt they add the resolve affecting each hits in beta?

[sour oriole]

because of how her cons work

[pale root]

Shenhe c6 will destroy galaxies if they tweak a bit her numbers

[idle thistle]

or C6 could be brought down to C2

[frigid stump]

i don't see how increasing her floor and ceiling is a bad thing

[sour oriole]

so many changes to Raiden i dont even remember anymore

[pale root]

They need to be smart about it
How likely that is?

[strong oak]

Overall I'm not sure if they designed themselves into a corner. But its a very fiddly mechanic that might need a lot more attention than its worth from a gameplay PoV

[sour oriole]

it can possibly completely change the C6R5 landscape

[frigid stump]

and that's a problem because ?

[strong oak]

They changed Resolve from being a dmg multiplier to added MV. The final result was basically the same numerically

[sour oriole]

because whales fund the game?

and powercreep is a borrowed thing

the more you powercreep now, the more you have to powercreep later

[strong oak]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/913131898266587148/913546211150135317/unknown.png
That is why increasing her ceiling is not necessarily a good idea

[frigid stump]

397% increase

[sour oriole]

they have to change the quill mechanics

[strong oak]

To be fair. I should probably check how such a chart would look for Bennett

[sour oriole]

that's why i said it'd be interesting to compare to Bennet

[strong oak]

since she is an ATK Buffer in disguise

[sour oriole]

imagine Shenhe as the BiS cryo buffer

[sour oriole]

yes

[strong oak]

Ayaka is the only real outlier

[sour oriole]

yes

[strong oak]

Since she gets to hang that 300% CA dmg multipleir at C& onto the quills

[sour oriole]

cos Ayaka abuses both her quill and all the passive buffs from Shenhe

[strong oak]

Iirc KB had C6 R5 Ayaka CA Quills at 170k

per Quill

[sour oriole]

also at Shenhe C6, you dont need to run triple cryo

just run Ayaka with Shenhe and NA/CA 24/7

[strong oak]

Not quite

Q still eats all your Stacks on the first E

Cannot not consume Stacks if you have none

[sour oriole]

you still do double tap Es

C1 is for Q/E and NA/CA double dips

[strong oak]

But yeah with C6 Shenhe you just play Ayaka Freeze with Shenhe as the second Cryo

[sour oriole]

and then tap E again to refresh quills

well i mean i dont want to whale TC too much

but without TCing that, you can't really look at C0

and see what the issue is

[twilit trench]

Shenhe not looking too hot for f2ps

[sour oriole]

they just need to make her usable in dual cryo

that's it

somehow

either better quill or lower energy

[wooden stratus]

just found out that rosaria CAs ignore ICD rules when infused with Chong E. and seeing how shen he's CA has pretty decent mvs, reverse melt shenhe might work. but i might just be

[strong oak]

There wouldn't be any real advanatge to letting Shenhe do that. Building her with regular DPS Stats would compromise her Quill dmg. She'd basically jsut be like Rosa if not worse in that capacity.

But like, if you are hellbent on making Shenhe a Carry, sure, why not

[twilit trench]

So shenhe is locked to the support role AND cryo teams

Man.

You also need ayaka/ganyu to bring out her potential

[wooden stratus]

kinda cope yeah. but im just trying to see how she can do on other teams sincr freeze isnt looking good on her

[twilit trench]

She just seems like a whale toy

To be honest

[strong oak]

Freeze is a pretty good environment for her. just difficult to get the Slot

[twilit trench]

Freeze isn't looking good for shenhe?

[twilit trench]

Ayaka/Kaz/Shen/Kokomi would work no?

Or energy problems

Why the fuck does she have 80cost

[strong oak]

Should work, Shenhe jsut needs 200%

ER

[twilit trench]

Yikes

[wooden stratus]

yeah. the thing about freeze is that there's other cryo you can use instead of her. offensive morgana would likely run an ayaka and a morgana with some defensive option would run diona

[strong oak]

Yep the Ayaka and DIona covering offense and Defense makes it hard

[twilit trench]

Holy

[strong oak]

She'd likely trash Kaeya and Rosa though in that slot at the very least

[twilit trench]

You gonna have to sacrifice a lot of attack for that er

[strong oak]

Can run Fav in case of doubt

[twilit trench]

Fav er at level 90 is like 20% iirc lol

Plus fav forces you to run crit circlet unless cracked stats

[strong oak]

30.6%

But yeha crit might be an issue

Gotta look into how much of a loss ER Sands are

[wooden stratus]

does offensive shenhe fair well? or is she best as a full atk/atk/atk support?

[strong oak]

2 EoSF is an option aswell

[strong oak]

Triple ATK

[twilit trench]

2eosf 2 glad sounds nice

I wonder if she can get away with minimum er in mono cryo

[wooden stratus]

well at least she's cheap to build. only need some ER

[twilit trench]

80cost is steep

Probably have to run 200% with 2 cryos

[sour oriole]

The funny thing is

The other Cryo will have to run 200% as well

Unless battery like Rosa or Kaeya

[twilit trench]

Nah

Shenhe will be funneling

[sour oriole]

If Shenhe funnels she will need even more

[twilit trench]

[sour oriole]

Just get C1

[strong oak]

The 193% in the comp above are with her funneling both Es to Ayaka

[twilit trench]

That's c1?

Not c0

What the fuck

[strong oak]

Na thats C0 ER Calcs

[sour oriole]

That sounds better

[twilit trench]

Thank god

[strong oak]

You do 2 Tap Es in an Ayaka comp

[twilit trench]

Yeah makes sense

[strong oak]

You kinda need to play quickswap with Shenhe

[twilit trench]

You swap out a lot in freeze

[strong oak]

single E per rot is sus

[sour oriole]

I'm down for that comp actually

[twilit trench]

Do quills only trigger on field?

[sour oriole]

Kaz XQ Ayala Shenhe

[strong oak]

And you can also play Venti over Kaz

[twilit trench]

Kokomi

[strong oak]

ADC Venti for Quills, energy refund

[twilit trench]

Yeah venti sounds really nice

[sour oriole]

Well at least Shenhe has Ganyu/Ayaka variations

[strong oak]

I'm fairly convinced Ayaka/Ganyu + Hydro + Anemo + Shenhe will be strong

I'm jsut concerned Ayaka+Ganyu might be stronger

Well I guess if you cant leverage Ganyu's quadratic scaling Shenhe mgiht win for Ayaka variations

[twilit trench]

The problem now is you need a 5* cryo dps which is again

Not very good for f2p

[wooden stratus]

is there a potential for the quill procs to have ICD? mhy wont be that scummy right?

[twilit trench]

I guess rosa could work but yikes?

[strong oak]

Kinda the fate of element specifc Supports. We jsut don't have great 4* Cryo DPS of that kind

[sour oriole]

That's why I was thinking some rev melt that uses Kaeya and Rosa will be more F2P friendly

But it depends on how good the rev melt is

Which has to be tested

[twilit trench]

5* elemental specific support that needs other 5* dps of that element

[strong oak]

Thats my CY Quad Melt Calc

juicy 30k Melt Quills

But we'd need that to be repeatable across 2 Es ideally

[twilit trench]

Can quills proc off field

[strong oak]

Yes

[twilit trench]

[strong oak]

Maybe Melt CY could work with 24s rots where you use Quills for every Quad Melt

But ER reqs for that

[twilit trench]

What's the comp for that

[sour oriole]

30k melt quills basically covers quill procs from 3 characters in Cryo freeze

[strong oak]

I'm not sure if that is even doable and it still looks horrible

[sour oriole]

Bye imma sleep

[twilit trench]

Why is she 80cost

Mihoyo why

[strong oak]

Shenhe isn't even the problem here

more like Benentt and Kaz

I already assigned 2 Es for them which you might not even be able to fit in

[twilit trench]

Mihoyo really said "just use Raiden"

Is there a comp with Raiden and shenhe?

[strong oak]

Raiden-Eula variant at best

[pale root]

Might be copium
But i'm thinking
eula, baal, Jean (c2), shenhe

[mystic linden]

give shenhe a fav spear

it's her f2p option anyway

[pale root]

The anemo there to at least use a bit of extra qills

[strong oak]

But finding the Crit for reliable procs is a bit sus

[twilit trench]

Jean can't use quills lol

[wooden stratus]

what's the concesus on shenhe E dmg???

[strong oak]

Jean can't proc Quills

[pale root]

Cryo Swirl

[strong oak]

Swirl doesn't work

[twilit trench]

Swirl doesn't proc quill

[undone osprey]

Fav isn't f2p tho

[pale root]

Was it confirmed already? Damn

I've slept throught that

[twilit trench]

It's in her skill description

[pale root]

I mean
We were talking about venti infused Q to proc qills yesterday

[twilit trench]

Venti works because his q absorbs cryo

And deals cryo damage

[mystic linden]

shenhe isn't f2p if you look at it that way

[undone osprey]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShenheMains/comments/r2ofbj/shenhes_skill_buff_theory/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

[twilit trench]

Shenhe isn't very f2p in general to be honest

[undone osprey]

Comments on this?

[mystic linden]

idk how that's up for debate

converting a stat to raw damage isn't new

zhongli does it, redhorn does it

[strong oak]

The wording of Shenhe's E is much closer to added MV than Stat Buffs

[wooden stratus]

did they just assume shenhe will give a flat attack dmg bonus based from her sheet atk to the dmg dealt???

[coral onyx]

What is that saying?
it thinks Shenhe's buffs is similar to Bennett which is probably not the case, so that's probably wrong

[strong oak]

so unlikely its an actual ATK Buff

Yunjin si the bets coutner argument since she uses the same wording as Shenhe

Whats adding X DEF for NA Carries gonna do?

nothing

[twilit trench]

Doesn't yunjin have different wording

One sec

[wooden stratus]

isnt yunjin just a 4 star version of shenhe?

[twilit trench]

Yunjin more universal for sure

[mystic linden]

more universal for damage types, less for how to proc the buff

[strong oak]

Sort of

[mystic linden]

not a whole lot of NA attackers

[wooden stratus]

yoimiya buff

[mystic linden]

it does look that way

atk speed on her cons too

[wooden stratus]

yeah and doesnt range fair better with atk speed coz they have less hitlag?

[coral onyx]

Noelle, why does everyone forget about the one character that probably benefits most from her

[mystic linden]

noelle has a lot of geo support options already and hits slower

[wooden stratus]

iirc noelle is spin to win carry

[mystic linden]

yunjin buff is flat raw dmg per hit

[twilit trench]

@strong oak yunjin and shenhe have different wording

[fair blaze]

I think the argument is that the slower swing speed is made up for by the AoE mod on Noelle

[grizzled relic]

wording is different

[strong oak]

Its not exactly the same, but the increased wording is used by Moonglow and Redhorn who have added MV:

[twilit trench]

Dmg dealt vs dmg

[wooden stratus]

wait what if yunjin does a separate dmg off of her def kinda like a crescent pike

[twilit trench]

Idk

Mihoyo translation team is pepega af

[mystic linden]

we have video and she doesn't

[coral onyx]

It would say deal additionnal DMG etc somewhere

[wooden stratus]

i see, so what does she do? still a flat mv added to dmg dealt?

[strong oak]

And the bonus dmg wording is used on ZL which is also added MV:

[mystic linden]

same as shenhe, redhorn, donut, zhongli

[wooden stratus]

mhy needs to make their localization less stupid smh

[twilit trench]

This is the same as yunjin no?

Shenhe is different

[strong oak]

Yeah, I'm pointing out precedents for both

since their added MV wording isn't always consistent

[twilit trench]

Shenhe's wording seems unique

But mihoyo translation team might just be pepega and it's the same as moonglow

[mystic linden]

it's still clearly modifying damage

[coral onyx]

Itto also gets that wording on his added DEF on his Q Slash

[strong oak]

And thats Moonglow in reference to the Shenhe wording

[mystic linden]

how else do you modify damage based on 3k atk

[twilit trench]

Shenhe is DMG dealt

Moonglow etc is just dmg

[strong oak]

Yeah since Shenhe Quills only proc on dmg confirmation and are not generally applied to everything

[undone osprey]

Why'd they mess her kit like this

[wooden stratus]

i think the kit is good but for a four star's lmao

[strong oak]

I don't see how the dealt adds room for a compeltely different interpretation

[mystic linden]

it's not even messy, it's people being so desperate for a buff they're trying to nitpick beta translations

[fair blaze]

There are technically three ways to do it:

1. Count it as reaction/flat damage that can't crit
2. Count it as damage based on Yunjin's crit
3. Count it as damage based on the crit of the unit that procs it

[coral onyx]

Maybe in CN it's exactly the same and we'll get a translation correction before the patch release, there has been consistent patching for translation or balance in the few previous beta for characters and weapons

[undone osprey]

Beta gets an update every Monday ryt?

[fair blaze]

The issue is we've never had a situation where the extra damage comes from another unit.

Like with Redhorn, we never have to ask if we use Redhorn's crit, lol

[twilit trench]

Because if shenhe's e skill only wrote dmg it would still work

[mystic linden]

i'm okay with those, 1 and 2 are both worse than 3 which is the current interpretation

[twilit trench]

If moonglow and redhorn are consistent then shenhe should be the same if it does the same thing

[fair blaze]

3 is assumed atm, yeah

[strong oak]

But what does dealt do in that sentence?

[wooden stratus]

but isnt what shenhe is assumed to do is to just provide a source from the MV but for the MV to scale offf of the dmg dealer's crit and dmg bonus modifiers?

[twilit trench]

Idk, we have to see. Small things like this is why everyone called absorbtion infusion for the longest time

When they are 2 seperate things

[vast current]

I assume Shenhe's quills would also apply to herself? So she gets that MV boost for every subsequent E, until she uses Q?

[fair blaze]

I assume so, yes

[vast current]

If only the E were multi-hit.

[fair blaze]

Well, not the second half

Her Q is meant to proc her quills

[coral onyx]

Not unless you have cooldown reduction, the duration of stacks is equal to her CD

[twilit trench]

Dmg dealt could mean that it works how Bennet works for example

[vast current]

[strong oak]

All I see it being for there since Quills specify that they trigger on dealing dmg, like ALbeod and Raiden E. Redhorn and Moonglow are always active.

[wooden stratus]

wait. are you insinuating the MV stacks? per use????

[coral onyx]

Oh her C1 gives her a 2nd use of her E so yes with C1 her quills will work on her 2 cast of E

[vast current]

No, I was just wondering if her quills also boost her own attacks. Then it was pointed out her CD is equal to the duration.

Would be nice if the quills stacked, so double casting E with the cons would give you 10/14 quills.

[twilit trench]

Albedo's says "when opponents take dmg"

[vast current]

You'd be able to do a full combo and get benefit for all of the hits. Once every... 20 seconds.

[twilit trench]

I'll go look at raiden's now

Raiden's is "attack and deal damage"

[strong oak]

The only example we have for Attack specifc Stat bonuses is Xinyan C6, which uses Bonus ATK and doesn't mention dmg at all:

[twilit trench]

I guess raiden's is similar?

Hmmm

[coral onyx]

I'm kinda thorn on this, if it didn't that C1 wouldn't be good for a full support ATK shenhe but if it did her C1 would be such a huge upgrade, imagine if you could use hold E for 7 stack and then E for 12 stacks every 10 sec
that would scale like we probably don't imagine first glance

[wooden stratus]

hmm interesting i never thought of that. perhaps it will stack

[coral onyx]

48 stacks every 10 sec, just deal cryo damage and profit

[vast current]

I would assume the stacks cool down one at a time, similar to Succrose, so you get 1 skill every 10 seconds, 20 seconds to CD both uses.

[strong oak]

Quills stacking would help C1 immensely

[vast current]

Sac Spear?

[coral onyx]

it's not worded the same, it's a unique wording, at least in EN

I interprete it as basically a free sacrificial proc

[vast current]

Could be done such that you have a grace period to use the second E before it goes into CD. In which case you get two "casts" per CD.

[twilit trench]

Maybe it's because it's a self buff while shenhe's is teamwide?

I think I'm reaching

[coral onyx]

I assume it's that, I'm curious to see it in a beta leak or at release day

[strong oak]

ATK Bonus would still make much more sense and be WAY less confusing

[wooden stratus]

i think that's the best course if it's an activation refresh double cast (if it stacks) would be for nuke rotations

[twilit trench]

You are right, Moonglow is the closest we have to shenhe's wording atm

I guess we can assume it works like it

[strong oak]

Working like Xin would also be super jank

since Xin actually increases her ATK in general while using CA

[twilit trench]

[strong oak]

SO if it was like Xin

[strong oak]

it would be super jank

[twilit trench]

Yeah

But with shenhe we have to try to find all the possible ways it would work

Because that would make or break it

At the moment, we are assuming it's like Moonglow and thats totally fine

It's wording has the closest resemblance

[vast current]

Still seems lackluster, IMO. %ATK added to damage is generally worse than just a straight ATK buff, since most scalings are >100%.

[strong oak]

It beign based on her own ATK while taking the proccing units modifiers is what makes it itneresting

[vast current]

It would be really nice for low MV multihits, but again, quill liimts.

I mean, that's no different than Benny's ATK buff, that also uses the proccing unit's modifiers.

But it also uses their MVs as well, so it gets additional "scaling".

[twilit trench]

It might make melt kinda crazy honestly

[strong oak]

Its just differently packaged, yeah

[vast current]

You're already using high MV moves for scaling, so Shenhe's buff will be inferior to Benny again in that scenario, unfortunately.

[twilit trench]

Since melt also uses Bennet

[strong oak]

But what matters is jsut how much the effective dmg contribution is in the end

[twilit trench]

You use both tho

[vast current]

The effective contribution is quills*% scaling * Shenhe's ATK.

Times the number of cryo units.

[coral onyx]

C6 Ganyu, bennett, Shenhe are going to melt some bosses out of our realm of existence in 2sec

[vast current]

Effective contribution is ~384% of Shenhe's ATK per cryo party member every 10 seconds, assuming you can proc them all, or 538% every 15 seconds.

That's not a stellar number.

[coral onyx]

have to run away to not hit mobs with Shenhe E though

[sinful flume]

I love how this effect is worded wrong

[vast current]

You can use Chongus and ult off CD for the effective worth of 2 cryo party members

[strong oak]

For one rots thats gonna be funny CA numbers. Sadly just unsustainable energy wise

[fair blaze]

wdym, English translation team messing up an important tooltip?

Noooo

[vast current]

I think best buff is just more quill stacks per E and change C6.

[bleak cargo]

So anyone else plan on using Shenhe as a sub dps with Eula? Or just me

[strong oak]

If you have 3 units to proc it and get 2 Tap Es per rot thats 2k MV on both ATK and Crit Steroids

[coral onyx]

Hum if you aren't Qing with Shenhe or Ganyu anyway for lower ceiling you could do multiple rotation with just bennett high ER and pyro infused Kaz high ER also, not the biggest numbers but usable

[twilit trench]

Me if I decide to pull her

[strong oak]

Also true

[vast current]

Man, I like Sara, but I never expected they'd bring her clunky exclusivity to a 5*.

[strong oak]

Shenhe won't easily be the Bennett thats a 50% increase to your Team damage. But if she ends up with like 300k effective DPR and some extra Cryo shred, Cryo Bonus and NA/CA or E/Q dmg bonus thats pretty good

[twilit trench]

It was bound to happen

[vast current]

The real question, though, is can a a different unit replace her in the rotation and still output similar DPR?

[twilit trench]

Depends on how the e actually works

[coral onyx]

yeah I think her versatility is overlooked

[mystic linden]

if the answer to this is a 5* unit i think shenhe is in a fine place balance wise

[vast current]

If you're running two cryo anyways, the benchmark for comparison is Xiangling.

[strong oak]

I think in Morgana variants she is only at risk to losing to Ayaka+Ganyu or if Diona is needed for surviability

[twilit trench]

Just use kokomi

[vast current]

Or Kazuha.

[twilit trench]

Venti would be better tbh

[strong oak]

Assuming you have Koko thats also an option but then you face Ayaka+Ganyu still

[twilit trench]

Shenhe wants the refund

[vast current]

The problem is Kazoozoo is good with all 4 swirlable compositions, whereas Shenhe is shoehorned into Cryo. For that reason alone, I expect her to be significantly better at buffing cryo than Kazoo.

[mystic linden]

does she? all she needs is ER substats on atk mainstat pieces

[twilit trench]

Plus vent can go adc without sacrificing dmg buff unlike kaz

[wooden stratus]

So this is where you people have gone to

[twilit trench]

So venti quills can hit decently hard

[sinful flume]

80 cost

[vast current]

Hell, Sara is a better buff than Kazoo in some instances for electro.

[strong oak]

In Ayaka Freeze she sits at around 200% ER reqs

[mystic linden]

yea but if you're only looking for one substat you can get 50+ easily

[sinful flume]

I agree
just increase the number of quills to 10/15 on Tap/Hold and decrease Q cost to 60, and she is very good already

[mystic linden]

this is with or without venti

[vast current]

Rework C2. Elem-locked 15% CDMG is an insult for a 5* constellation.

[strong oak]

w/o assumed Kaz for the energy calc

[coral onyx]

We literally cannot say anything about that for now, she may be overwhelmingly strong right now already for cryo heavy teams

[sinful flume]

I agree, thats kinda pepega tbh

[coral onyx]

and she may be broken with C1

[sinful flume]

true, tho 80 cost for her burst is kinda non-sense

[fair blaze]

It also does another thing, lol

[sinful flume]

its like Yoi when she had a 80 cost Q

[mystic linden]

what's worse, losing 46% shenhe atk to ER sands or losing kazuha's dmg buff

[vast current]

The numbers, Brizjk, I trust the maffs.

[wooden stratus]

What does yoi Q do again

[fair blaze]

Nothing

[sinful flume]

mark 1 guy, does dmg every 2 secs when you hit him

[twilit trench]

This is true

[sinful flume]

if guy dies, mark passes to another enemy

[wooden stratus]

So like riptide but shit

[sinful flume]

also 10-20 ATK% for the party when you press Q

[vast current]

Watch as Shenhe's Q ticks for a DoT damage every 0.3 seconds. Then we all just forget about her E.

[strong oak]

With Venti its down to 160% ER roughly

[mystic linden]

there's a video of her in action

[vast current]

Yoi's Q does good damage though.

[hallow flower]

venti

[sinful flume]

its okay

[vast current]

Hopes dashed.

[coral onyx]

I think her burst was gutted because they take things and put it in constellations, the 6 sec added to it justify an 80 cost but without it I agree with you

[sinful flume]

but her Q could be a 40 cost and it would matter much tbh

[coral onyx]

Her Q is REALLY Strong

[mystic linden]

yoi q would look a lot better if pyronado didn't already exist

[vast current]

I only use her Q to make E recharge faster.

[fair blaze]

Yoi Q would be a lot better if it didn't have standard ICD

[sinful flume]

yeah, its annoying how C2 is making her base kit Q look bad

[mystic linden]

that too

[twilit trench]

Mihoyo really loves making controversial c2s

As of late

[sinful flume]

I dont even know if I'm gonna be able to get her C0

[vast current]

Albedo C2.

[twilit trench]

I'm gonna skip her

[hallow flower]

i dont think the c2 is that big of a deal

[twilit trench]

I don't have ayaka or ganyu

[mystic linden]

shenhe has the same c2 extension, and just like yoi it doesn't matter because her Q doesn't bring much anyway

[sinful flume]

its not, but it LOOKS like it is

[mystic linden]

6 more seconds of 10% cryo dmg and 15% res shred

[twilit trench]

And the cdmg

[sinful flume]

gonna use her with Kaeya

[wooden stratus]

Whats shenhe’s total mv for Q

[mystic linden]

like 660% at lvl 10

[vast current]

Less than Rosaria's.

[twilit trench]

LMAO

[sinful flume]

which team is better?
Kaeya + Shenhe + Chong + Kazuha/Jean
or
Kaeya + Shenhe + Chong + XQ

[coral onyx]

Fuck, if C1 adds stacks instead of just refreshing, C2 shenhe brings cryo supremacy to meta

[wooden stratus]

Really}

?

[twilit trench]

Ya

[mystic linden]

it's assuming 4 sets of slashes at c0

the video we have shows 7 sets at c2

[wooden stratus]

Its less than kokomis too

[vast current]

Why run C2 Shenhe when you can run Eula support?

[twilit trench]

Euler

[coral onyx]

isn't it atleast 896% at T10 C0? the dot hits atleast twice from leaks we saw right?

[twilit trench]

Nope it's 660 pretty sure

[mystic linden]

it's either 8*60+180 or 10*60+180

idk if c0 would get 4 or 5 sets of slashes

[twilit trench]

It's not consistent?

Why?

[mystic linden]

it's consistent, we don't have c0 footage

only c2

[twilit trench]

Ah

[vast current]

To be fair, that 660% doesn't take into account the +79% per hit from her E.

[twilit trench]

She doesn't crit anyway

Lmao

[mystic linden]

shenhe doesn't have the dmg/crit stats to use her own E effectively

[wooden stratus]

Does she have kokomi passive

[twilit trench]

No she goes atk atk atk

[vast current]

But then you're using both hold E and Q to do... still less damage than Rosaria ult.

[mystic linden]

like on my team ayaka does 10k quill damage while shehe does 3k

[twilit trench]

Or er If you need

[wooden stratus]

Maybe im gonna skip shenhe

Prolly get c2 yun jin

Then dip

[twilit trench]

Shenhe is whale toy

[wooden stratus]

I save for yae

[vast current]

[wooden stratus]

If i dont like yae kit i get kokomi c1

[mystic linden]

not really? i'm getting her just to try out pure cryo

[vast current]

Electro supremacy is where it's at. Ripperoni Cryo supremacy.

[wooden stratus]

[mystic linden]

at worst it's a sidegrade to freeze teams

[twilit trench]

It's cuz she kinda needs ayaka or ganyu lol

[vast current]

Or Rosa.

[twilit trench]

She scales extremely hard with other characters investment too

[mystic linden]

oh well f2p with both here

[twilit trench]

Rosa

[vast current]

She's good.

[twilit trench]

Rosa kaeya

[vast current]

Rosa Xiangling.

[twilit trench]

Rosa klee

With shenhe

[mystic linden]

does rosa E melt once or twice?

[twilit trench]

Twice

[mystic linden]

so she can do 10 melts per rota with 2 Es and a Q... hmm

[vast current]

[twilit trench]

Melt Rosa has already been explored

[vast current]

Rosa, Chong, Xiangling, Kazoo.

[mystic linden]

shenhe 5th team member

[vast current]

The true Cryo supremacy.

[mystic linden]

rosa shenhe xiangling bennett, shenhe can stay on field during rosa ult to give her bennett buffed atk for quills

maybe

[vast current]

Kazoo is a superior DPS contribution.

[mystic linden]

not sure about that, 40 shred 40% dmg vs 15 shred 25% dmg + quills

[vast current]

Rosa’s Q ticks are 240% MV, the 40 shred + 40 DMG delivers more than Shenhe’s +79% MV adder.

But I admit, I have not done the maffs.

The fact that that’s not immediately apparent in Shenhe’s own niche is troubling.

[mystic linden]

it's effectively only 25 shred (12.5% res) and 15% dmg vs quills

kazuha is OP so being close is fine

[vast current]

Kazuu’s also more useable in a wider variety of comps.

[mystic linden]

i accept that we're not getting anyone obviously better than him

[vast current]

Shenhe’s shoehorned element should be considered in her numbers.

[coral onyx]

Lol I went to the gameplay video leak and counted the Q hits from it and I thinks it a C2+
The dot ticks 8 times, and the 1st tick is instantly at the same time as the initial hit
https://old.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/r23lkg/pyro_invoker_gameplayvia_waffel/

34 Initial hit
12 12 Same time as initial hit
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
29 29 (buffed from E stacks)
12 12
14 14 (ZL shield shred)
14 14
14 21 (crit)
faded

76 Initial hit (buffed from E stacks)
37 37 Same time as initial hit (buffed from E stacks)
37 37 (buffed from E stacks)
16 16
12 12
12 19
12 12
33 33 (buffed from E stacks)
33 33 (buffed from E stacks)

[mystic linden]

it's definitely 18 seconds long

and 15 hits, yea

first hit is her 180% mv initial slash, rest are dot ticks

[coral onyx]

so C0 is initial + 10 dot : 777.64% at T10
and C2 is initial + 16 dot : 1135.56% at 10

[mystic linden]

wait you're right it's 8

there's a set immediately on cast that happens with the initial slash

[strong oak]

If its 8 ticks in 18s with an initial tick that would mean 2.5s tick intervals

[mystic linden]

just long enough to apply cryo every set

[vast current]

The fact that it hits twice per tick to eat up more quills is just a slap in the face.

[coral onyx]

I'm fairly certain I saw a reaction at each tick of her Q

so yeah consider no icd on her Q

[hallow flower]

is that a bad thing?

[mystic linden]

why? better than not having enough hits to use up quills

[vast current]

I guess quill adds the same damage anyways, faster ticks just mean they get consumed faster. Nevermind.

[mystic linden]

that reminds me, with kazu vs venti one point in venti's favor is kazuha can't actually consume 10 quills

then again they both do low quill dmg anyway

[vast current]

Kazoo's damage is mostly Swirl, he doesn't have the crits to take advantage of quills, yeh.

[strong oak]

Venti can only consume 1 Set of Quills unless back to back casts stack the charges up

[coral onyx]

And also an instance of damage is buffed while it should be at 0 stack we get 6 dot buffed instead of 5

[mystic linden]

in a venti + ayaka team i would use shenhe E to start, then again right after ayaka Q in venti Q

[vast current]

Sekrit stacks.

[mystic linden]

should be around the right timing for 10 procs

[coral onyx]

Oh my bad it was a hold E

[vast current]

No sekrit stacks.

[strong oak]

Timing it so that you can Venti Q recast E and then have Venti Q eat those also seems really tight

[hallow flower]

just hit two enemies

no more leftover quills

[mystic linden]

only need to catch the last second or two to get 5 hits

for both ayaka and venti Qs

with 8s/5s duration that should be doable

[vast current]

I only use Kazoo ult on singular enemies, how dare you?

[twilit trench]

@mystic linden venti can go adc without losing much

Kazu loses the ele dmg buff

I think Venti wins out here

[mystic linden]

why would either of them go adc

[twilit trench]

Quill damage

[strong oak]

Quill Damage and Venti ADC can actually compete with his EM dmg at high enough investment

So its just free Quill dmg

[vast current]

That's a lot of investment, though. EM is easier.

[wooden stratus]

More of a dolphin one tbh

[strong oak]

Thats a Shenhe thing

You will encounter a lot

[vast current]

C6 Shenhe shredder, let's GOOO!

[strong oak]

If you have an Amenoma Ayaka with a EM Kaz/Venti her contribution will be much much worse

[vast current]

I wanna see 100k CAs with

[strong oak]

C6 Ayayaya CA Multiplier should make that possible

(If it isn't already, havent checked)

[vast current]

Well-invested only sees a roughly twofold increase in CA damage every 10 seconds.

[mystic linden]

if you want to maximize ayaka quills use harbinger of dawn

[vast current]

[strong oak]

For Quill dmg thats certainly a LOT better than Amenoma, not sure however how that looks for Ayaka's own dmg

[mystic linden]

it's lower overall, i've already checked

HoD and amenoma are my two options atm

[strong oak]

I could see Blacklciff and Black Sword being pushed ahead though since they offer some Crit Stats for Quills

Iirc they weren't too far off before

But its been a while since I've seen the Ayaka Weapon Sheet

[mystic linden]

i could check but it'd only be for my specific gear

[strong oak]

Don't own her so I'm not necessarily up to date

[coral onyx]

Hum talking about weapon and quill, Amos CA bonus would also apply to the quill part of it hum... I get what you are saying about whale and more generally hyperinvestment that will give some ridiculous things

[vast current]

That part isn't unique to Shenhe, though. Whales get more benefit out of Benny buff still. Benny's buff is also further amplified by the cryo unit's own scalings. Which, for Ganyu, is yuge compared to Shenhe's adder.

[strong oak]

Yep, its jsut a bit weird to look at since usually Bennetts ATK Buff isn't evaluated as his dmg contribution on Paper

[hallow flower]

she should hit way over that if you are using both c6

[vast current]

Am I willing to invest thousands of dollars into a meme damage per screenshot build?

[hallow flower]

300k ca is only $6000 away

[vast current]

[true forge]

Looks like I'm getting Ayaka during her rerun

[vast current]

[hallow flower]

i thought you had her already

[true forge]

Nope just Ganyu

And Eula technically

Ironically I thought I was set for Cryo

Guess not

[hallow flower]

you're not set for cryo until you have two freeze burst units

[strong oak]

I wanted to ask if you could do a dmg contribution overview for Bennett like you did for Shenhe, just that its the dmg increases from the ATK Buff separated as Bennetts contribution, since you already have the setup.
Can be with the same units, Bennett going from 44 Base Weapon to 48 for the weapon part, C0, C1, C5 for the Cons part.

I think it would be quite valuable to comapre the investment growth and check if there are unexpected differences between Shenhe and a direct ATK Buff.

[hallow flower]

i can prob work on that one a bit later

[strong oak]

Would be great. Not in a hurry regarding that, either.

I simply don't have the Calcs set up right now to do that and gotta do the Unit Calcs first, so that will take a bit. Haven't really calced C6 5*s in particular.

[hallow flower]

il have to go and actually calc how much dmg the other 3 characters do on their own first

to get how much additional dmg that shen provides through buffs to fairly compare with benny

[strong oak]

Ah, ok, figured you'd already have those for the most part. Then I'll see what I can do aswell. Just need tog et my Itto stuff done aswell, gotten kinda distracted from that in the last few days.

If the investment behavior between the 2 was similar we could either use other such Supports as a reference or simply evaluate her as a true Support and look at the expected % Team DPS increases, which should make her a lot easier to grasp.

[mystic linden]

following up on shenhe vs kazuha in a rosa/xl/benny reverse melt team: rosa's E+Q does 540k total with dbane r5 and fav lance shenhe

440k with kazuha 1000em

assuming reactionless xl (with benny) does around 200k dpr and shenhe does around 100k, that's considerably less total damage than the pure cryo team i calced earlier, but the team has one 5* instead of all 5*s

[strong oak]

How do you get to 170k Quill dmg? Seems quite high at first glance, even if its melt

[mystic linden]

base quill damage w/o melt is listed right above

5.8k for E, 6.3k for Q, 7.9k for Q while shenhe is on field with bennett buff

2 quills for E, 3 quills for Q, 5 quills for Q w/ benny

and 2.44x damage for melting all of that

could probably get a few more quills w/ bennett buff since it lingers but not a huge difference

[strong oak]

Ah, ok, so with some Bennett buffed Quills and all 10 Melt

If thats consistently doable that looks pretty good

[mystic linden]

shenhe E -> benny QE -> pyronado + guoba -> shenhe Q -> rosa EQ -> shenhe E and stand around for buff

idk what to do with the rest of the time

benny E to feed xl once or twice, probably

actually you only lose 20k if shenhe never gets benny buff so that might not even be worth standing around for

[compact raptor]

Wait

Doesn't benny ult only give the attack bonus to the person standing in it?

And the quils check the moment they are procced

[mystic linden]

yea i was assuming 5 without buff 5 with buff

doesn't matter, even if all 10 are unbuffed it's still 520k from rosa EQ

[compact raptor]

Ya

[swift perch]

is there a weapon ranking for shen he 😅

[torpid perch]

Should be

Considering her signature weapon doesn’t work with snapshot

It would be safe to assume that her quills don’t snap either

[strong oak]

Only way to get Bennett buffed Quills should be to camp on Shenhe and have all the other units Quills procced off-field

[vast current]

That's a pretty big opportunity cost, though. You can have or Ganyu on the field instead and actually do damage.

[sinful flume]

it says current atk
i'm 99% sure it doesnt

[neat geyser]

Its dynamic I think

So Yeah

[pale root]

at the same time, you're able to proc NO/ToM post using her E, which can lead to simpler rotations

[pulsar tinsel]

What build venti usually run in freeze comp em build or anemo crit build?

[floral jay]

This is the wrong place to ask but

[floral jay]

Adc usually goes further than EM build iirc

[short yoke]

What would shenhe recommend artifacts be

[strong oak]

2Shime2Glad, 2EoSF + 2 Shime/Glad or 4BS (Freeze)

Potentially 4EoSF aswell

[floral jay]

4EoSF and run EL shen

[strong oak]

EL is actually interesting thinking about it

[pale root]

if 4 EoSF, might also pair well with Wavebreakers Fin

[strong oak]

Generally 4EoSF would just be an option for high ER variants if you wanted to push her own dmg a bit. I wouldn't insist on it too much

since her own dmg is pretty weak

[undone osprey]

Pretty weak

[crimson oxide]

[grizzled relic]

own dmg being pretty weak

[short snow]

[short yoke]

Is shenhe E buff similar to albedos new sword passive in the damage calculator

[shadow rune]

So far that's the conclusion

[floral jay]

Melt shen

National

[strong oak]

If you wanna Melt 1 instance of 60% MV every 2s I wish you the best fo luck

[floral jay]

idk let me cope i want a carry shenhe

She might be another add on to permafreeze cheld

fml

[pliant solar]

based

[floral jay]

[drifting vigil]

HanOnDeez nuts

[floral jay]

[desert locust]

just c6 and comp with chongy

[floral jay]

and she only buff her team

but hey i will make her work either way as a carry

[untold stirrup]

i thought ppl aggreed the ult was like 2 hits in 1 tick

[hallow flower]

thats what i thought everyone agreed it to be

are people saying its not 2 ticks anymore?

[untold stirrup]

idk

[potent solstice]

Couldn't the second damsge instance in the clip be the icy quill trigger as dynamic second instance of damage ?

[untold stirrup]

but if its 2 hits then her ult does 60+60+76+76 per tick

until her buff is gone then its 60+60

[hallow flower]

why are you doubling the dmg?

[untold stirrup]

2 hits

i meant like every 2s it does that much

[hallow flower]

oh, it should be 2 instances of dmg per 2 sec interval

no?

[untold stirrup]

idk

where even is the video i cant find it anymore

[untold stirrup]

ok i found it again its the ult is definitely 2 hits per tick, the second instance does the same damage

[wooden stratus]

How cope is building adc shenhe

[floral jay]

Atk/atk/atk will probably go further not sure might want to ask someone with sheet impact

:excel:

[paper ice]

from my calcs it doesnt seem to make a huge difference

[mystic linden]

in my pure cryo team she does 80k total damage with 0 crit subs, and 130k with 25 crit subs

[paper ice]

I cant prove it though

[mystic linden]

atk/cryo/crit will get her to 180k but the rest of the team loses more damage than she gains

[wooden stratus]

180k

[mystic linden]

actually it's less, forgot to change her ult #hits after i realized her video against invoker was c2

[wooden stratus]

If i only have rosaria is it also bad

[strong oak]

If its Melt Rosa then her Quills are quite powerful again

and Main DPS Freeze Rosa is very cope in general

ADC starts to lose out fairly early

Best case for her personal dmg you can do is running 4 BS in a Freeze Comp

[mystic linden]

i wasn't counting her quill buffs on other chars as adc damage

it can be a lot if you melt the quills or have high crit/dmg dps like ayaka

but that's kinda against the spirit of "adc shenhe"

[floral jay]

raikh shen guide when

[strong oak]

I don't see me going there. I don't see me pulling her

[floral jay]

[strong oak]

Its a bit like the Kaz situation just magnified a lot. You can ofc make a case in some situations for building her ADC for her personal dmg but that compromises her Support value.
Full ADC Shenhe as some forced SubDPS will never be amazing. At best you get a slightly better Freeze Sub DPS Rosa, which isn't exactly great

[wooden stratus]

She seems.. bad for people with ganyu or ayaka

[mystic linden]

believe in pure cryo

[strong oak]

Those are precisely her 2 best use cases

Both Ganyu + Ayaka are the only potential "issue"

Like

Morgana + Ayaka

[mystic linden]

Ganyu is easily replaced by rosa if you're only using her for EQ though

[strong oak]

is hella powerful and I don't see Shenhe generating much mileage over Ayaka Burst Support there

[pliant solar]

im still thinking its cope

unless u dont have mona

trading omen + freeze utility for shen

[strong oak]

If Ayaka is the core and you don't abuse Ganyu's quadratic scaling

Thats where Shenhe shines

[mystic linden]

yea that's all assuming vs single bosses

[strong oak]

since she will be vastly better than Rosa in that capacity

[floral jay]

Shen,mona,xq,kaeya team

[mystic linden]

i think any time shenhe is only buffing one other cryo and they're not melting, you're better off with two cryo dps

[strong oak]

Current standings I see Shenhe either in RevMelt Comps or Ayaka/Ganyu Freeze or Triple Cryo + Anemo. Only point where I'm sceptical is Ganyu+Ayaka Morgana since Shenhe isn't good with AoE and both Ganyu and Ayaka can do stupid amounts of damage in that comp

[pliant solar]

rev melt sounds ok

ayaka/ganyu freeze has to contend with rosa right

triple cryo + anemo doesnt sound very comfy losing freeze utility

[strong oak]

Usually Diona for battery + shield/heal

[pliant solar]

its like all the teams are just missing 1 thing

[mystic linden]

has to contend with ayaka/ganyu too since they're all 5*s

in the case where you don't care about healing

[pliant solar]

if the anemo is sayu/jean u lose grouping

if its venti/kaz u have no heals

[strong oak]

Competition is tight, yeah

[mystic linden]

sayu/jean not a bad idea, shenhe is best against a single target anyway

[pliant solar]

if ayato ends up having grouping it might be complete

[strong oak]

Not quite at the point for full blown team Calcs to see if we get a Raiden Nat situation where Shenhe can overpower VV or some shit like that and Triple Cryo Freeze becomes a thing worth running

[pliant solar]

but then u lose vv/kaz buffs

maybe yea

[mystic linden]

non-anemo with grouping... we can only hope

[strong oak]

Its kinda up in the air, she basically has a lot of potential but also just strong competition

[pliant solar]

i still feel kaz ayaka shenhe koko sounds like the most well rounded freeze

[mystic linden]

tldr we have too friggin many cryo chars already

[pliant solar]

idk why they made a cryo support tbh lmao

i was really hoping we got someone focused on rev melt

[mystic linden]

we technically don't have a cryo buff support yet

but buffs have to compete against simply having another dps char

[strong oak]

Thing is that Cryo kinda doesn't want a Cryo Buffer

As Hydro and Anemo Slots are incredibly desirable

So you have this one slot for the second Cryo

where jsut everyone competes

And since both Ganyu and Ayaka are both good Main DPS and good Burst Supports

[pliant solar]

yea so pretty much she needs to do decent subdps damage maybe on the level of rosa while providing adequate buffs to justify being a 5* and the 2nd cryo slot

[strong oak]

Yep

[pliant solar]

atm i highly doubt her quill damage can do that

plus they made it per char so like to use it optimally u want to proc it on a couple chars

[strong oak]

I'd think Ayaka/Hydro/Anemo/Shenhe will be quite strong

[pliant solar]

im guessing quill on herself will be pepega if u go full atk right

so that just leaves the 1st cryo

[strong oak]

But its more of a ST/low target count comp over Morgana variations

[strong oak]

Its weaker but not nothing

[pliant solar]

yea so kaz/koko rounds the team off

too bad i dont have ayaka nor koko kek

[strong oak]

Venti is technically the best Quill Trigger Anemo

[dire ivy]

Wouldnt chong be able to proc for everyone in the party

How bad would the damage be

For like xl

[strong oak]

Haven't done Calcs myself but from what I've heard it looks pretty bad

[mystic linden]

yes but proccing that way is really slow

[pliant solar]

maidgalaxy said current assumptions want u to do hold e for that

[mystic linden]

compared to teams where your cryo is proccing quills w/o taking field time

[pliant solar]

why the fuck did they make her e split like that anyway

[strong oak]

Thing is if you enable a Team via CHong to proc Quills

[pliant solar]

if u run chong u probably want to melt his q as well

[strong oak]

and the units in question aren't Cryo units

Quills will do pitiful dmg

since likely no dmg% to scale them up

You want high Crit and dmg% mods or Melt to get Quill dmg up there

[pliant solar]

for freeze she gets to piggyback off high cdmg from 4bs and the bunch of cryo buffs on ganyu/ayaka for example

on chong idk

[strong oak]

I looked into Quad Melt CY Hypercarry but energy is impossible

[pliant solar]

whats the team?

[strong oak]

CY/Shenhe/Kaz/Ben

Quad Melt CY Quills with R5 SS are super powerful

SO if you could do a 14s rot that might be a good QS Team

[pliant solar]

yea thats what im looking at

[strong oak]

But no way to get the energy for Kaz and Ben

[pliant solar]

but i thought about slapping investment into ben to play melt ben and have him be the on field carry instead

[strong oak]

YOu'd have to go to 20s rots and at that point I'm not convinced its worthwhile running

[mystic linden]

did you try favonius on shenhe?

[pliant solar]

thats why i hope her a4 gets another boost

its quite jank cause im more or less ignoring quill damage as kaz shenhe ben wont do much for quills

pretty much just for the chong q

and it also sounds quite stat brute forcey

this way ben has no issues with energy

chong is 40 cost so i think it'll be fine

[strong oak]

Fav won't fix that

[pliant solar]

kaz as well but funding him means i lose field time for ben

shenhe q is doomed if its still 80 cost

[mystic linden]

christ kazuha's req

[strong oak]

I could be optimsitic and give Kaz a second E

but fitting that into a 14s rot is difficult to say the last

[pliant solar]

14s sounds too hard

[strong oak]

YOu can get that to work for 20s