Itto Thread

[patent galleon]

it will come with time

[rigid bay]

That's what I said to myself for c6 ningguang

Still have c2

Since a year ago

[patent galleon]

ning is a special case tho IMO

she has been very scarce

thats not the usual case

[rigid bay]

Pog, that'd certainly be nice, I love her gameplay during the dungeon, it was very pretty to watch

[patent galleon]

iirc she has only ever been on childes banners, up until now.

[rigid bay]

But sadly it doesn't play around well with what I have

So I'd need to build things from the ground up

[patent galleon]

my ning is still only C4

[rigid bay]

Well next banner will be a fucking slap in the face with her being next to Shenhe/xiao

⚰️

[patent galleon]

yeah im skipping those both. already have Xiao C1. dont want Shenhe

next pity is a guarantee as well

so cant risk it

[rigid bay]

While xiao plays okay with geo team for the most part, I'm not keen on getting him nor do I want to

So il just hold my guarantee and see what's to come

[onyx junco]

i got c6 gorou, itto c2, redhorn and jean in 170 pulls

[patent galleon]

i was lucky with sara, i got her to C6 before i even got Raiden to C1. gorou was much more costly, and not in a good way. i paid in 2 lost 50/50's to get gorou C6, my Itto remains C0.

[rigid bay]

I mean that's acceptable ig

Some people got C6 Gorou in 100

[patent galleon]

i dont mind niche supports, but if they follow this pattern of crazy C6's then i dont think i can keep up.

granted i dont think gorou was as bad as sara's case

sara felt like C6 or bust

gorou is respectable at C0 within his niche

[rigid bay]

Well

Easy just

March into mihoyo hq and threaten them to give u free 4 stars consts

[patent galleon]

id rather go find an IRL sugar mommy

more benefits

find me the kind of woman who can build and drop 2 Jade chambers

[unique rover]

here is our main dps ushi
https://twitter.com/0vv0b/status/1475449978533257219?s=19

[storm tulip]

bro I finally used my first time purchases for the banner, ended with c3 itto c6 gorou and redhorn

i got c3 itto before c6 gorou

[unique rover]

c6 now

[rigid bay]

Y'all are pushing it

I'm about to roll into a grave

[ancient stone]

prediction, we won't see gorou until itto rerun

[ancient stone]

she was on ayaya as well. And leaks suggest her showing up again on shenhe/xiao

[ancient stone]

i got c0 itto, c3 gorou, and keqing in 150 pulls

[storm tulip]

Dont worry, gorou on cyno banner

[teal sable]

gorou on yae banner 😩

[unique rover]

ayato pls so im sure to pull

[spark aurora]

gorou on ayato banner

[dense ocean]

Hey, what do you think of Itto Gorou Yunjin flex (Bennett/Zhongli/Diona etc)? Can Yunjin bring something interesting for Itto or not at all?

[onyx junco]

not really itto doesnt really do NAs that much

[dense ocean]

Okay that's my first thought, too bad, thank you!

[storm tulip]

c3 ushi screenshot

it is hard to see but it is 239977

[charred crag]

I think yunjin might drag c6 Noelle a bit closer to c0 itto, but yeah I don't think itto is going to really benefit.

[nocturne sorrel]

who would yunjin replace in a noelle team

[ancient pecan]

assuming the noelle gorou albedo core, probably the flex spot
afaik she can't beat albedo's damage but i'm not sure

[patent galleon]

only issue i see there is a massive energy problem

Noelle generates no energy, along with gorou generating very little himself. i doubt albedo could carry that alone.

unless Yunjin's energy is very good

i havent seen what her particle gen is like

[frigid hound]

2/3

Is her gen

[patent galleon]

maybe if both Yunjin and gorou run R5 fav weapons

[frigid hound]

2 press 3 is lvl 2 or hold

[nocturne sorrel]

yunjin's energy gen can't be worse than zhongli's

but another problem is you lose geo resonance uptime

noelle shield is only 12s duration ~20s cd

[ancient pecan]

the res shred lasts 15s iirc, and yunjin should be able to proc it with her hold E assuming it works like beidou's E

about the energy, gorou usually uses fav bow by default so it should be ok
also remember noelle can freely swap to him to recast E so energy shouldn't be an issue, specially in a mono-element team

[onyx junco]

you lose the 15% dmg bonus while not shielded, not like it matters too much tho

[ancient pecan]

yep, res shred is more important imo

[nocturne sorrel]

it's a mono-element team but one of the team members generates no energy and another generates no energy if bosses keep breaking his construct

[ancient pecan]

i dunno, noelle gorou albedo is enough to keep her running with ~130% ER
adding yunjin (another source of geo energy) should make the team's energy even smoother
worst case scenario if you're against a boss you replace albedo with yunjin instead of the flex unit

[storm tulip]

If bosses keep breaking his construct albedo is a liability anyways so you would just bring someone else

But it is really fucking hard for bosses to break albedo flower consistently in a noelle team

Since when it happens you can instantly redeploy

In itto team it is a different story since you cannot swap back

[storm tulip]

just random thing I just thought of, has anyone by any chance calced itto with 4pc shimenawa?

cause with c2 you can actually use it basically for free

I assume it would be worse since gap to bollide is still big

but was just wondering

[rare zenith]

Noelle reduces the CD of her shield every 4(?) NAs iirc

[storm tulip]

every 4 hits with NA/CA

[rare zenith]

Oh thanks

[amber cipher]

does Yunjin actually help with the team's energy? from what I know she is quite energy hungry herself, and will require a good few particles

[solar leaf]

If you perfect parry and run a Fav she can work

Maybe even ER sands if you're that hungry and funnel everything into the main carry

[amber cipher]

ER sands plus crit circlet for Fav procs is a lil sus

its way harder running it on her than someone like diona cause she hits less

[ancient pecan]

she's better using prototype polearm imo so you can go triple def instead of crit/def/def

[nocturne sorrel]

already counted, it's 24s base

[brave crow]

is ~4k atk on itto in burst with full husk stacks + gorou buffs and serpent spine good?

[rigid bay]

swear to god this aint funny anymore breh

[rigid bay]

massive copium there

[storm tulip]

You wouldnt run crit regardless you would just look for both ER and crit rate subs

That is literally the only stats you care about anywyas

She has 2-3 AoE hits per rotation on a noelle team even 30% crit rate is more than enough to virtually guarantee a proc

[ancient pecan]

25% crate only from subs is doable but considering i already have to farm 2 other full sets of HooD i dunno if i want to commit to that

just to run fav

[storm tulip]

Vs 2 enemies 2 es and 1 q per rotation is like an 88% chance to proc fav

[storm tulip]

If anything crit circlet is worse

[ancient pecan]

yea, which is why imo it's better to just go with prototype polearm for the better ER% substat

[storm tulip]

You dont want defense goblets or circlets for itto/noelle/albedo (unless itto is c6 where it can be similar to crit circlet)

So they arent competing over artifact s you are already farming either way

Only the defense sands are a competition

[ancient pecan]

they're competing over sands, feather and flower

[storm tulip]

Feather and flower are completely different

[ancient pecan]

i guess def goblet is more common than dmg% so def sands can be the off-piece if needed

[storm tulip]

A shit feather/flower for itto/albedo/noelle

Can be amazing for yunjin

It is not really a competition

Lookibg for different substats as a whole

[ancient pecan]

with fav she would want a crit rate/def/ER% flower/feather
which is kinda good for noelle/itto

[storm tulip]

No with fav you still wouldnt really want ER sands

She already has ER ascension

And fav is er substat

You do fine with subs

Oh sry flower

Not really

[ancient pecan]

fav-less yunjin can use "bad" def% + ER substat feather/flower just fine but fav on the other hand makes it so she wants crit + ER + def subs

[storm tulip]

Crit is the least favored stat for yunjin still

A flower/feather stacked on crit rate isnt really good for her

For flower/feather she is really looking for def%>ER>crit

[ancient pecan]

not for her kit but she needs it if she wants consistent favonius procs

[storm tulip]

Crit rate is favored on remainder of 3 pieces, same with ER

The flower feather ideally focus on defense

I really dont think yunjin and noelle/itto/albedo compete with any of the same artifacts except for sands

[ancient pecan]

i guess you can just use favonius with low crit and just hope for the best but in that case i would prefer to just get high ER% from prototype instead

[storm tulip]

Prototype is worse than like a 15% crit rate r5 fav

The extra particles even if rare really make a huge difference
But even more so

Her atks are AoE

And in a noelle rotation you would use 1-2 Es and Q

[ancient pecan]

gorou is also aoe and some people consider 50% crate not enough for fav gorou

[storm tulip]

And it is really only useful to use yunjin with noelle in AoE scenarios

[storm tulip]

They can consider it, they would be wrong

50% crit rate vs 2 enemies E+ Q that is 4 hits

It is a 94% chance to crit

At least once

[ancient pecan]

yea i also think their standards are too high

[storm tulip]

And you can even weave in an auto on gorou before or after E cast

So you would even get an extra hit in

[ancient pecan]

yep
but the point is it's kinda hard to build crit on yunjin without using a crit circlet or stealing pieces from noelle/itto/albedo
and i'm not a fan of low crit fav lance

maybe at r5 it can work but it's still kinda unreliable

[storm tulip]

Yeah at r5

Before r3-4 I'm sincerely not even sure fav weapons are worth running

Too incosistent

High cooldown too

[storm tulip]

pretty happy with my itto build

[steep marsh]

damn, pretty nice actually

[somber sandal]

[inland dagger]

Is itto C1 not recommended to pull?

[analog obsidian]

Its a good QoL cons imo

Not necessary

[inland dagger]

Thanks~!

[ancient stone]

For those who plan to learn his combos and execute them perfectly every time, c1 is not a big increase [doesn't unlock some new combo vastly stronger or whatnot]
But for a normal player, its a nice QoL that lets you start his charge attack right away.
If you want to compare c1 itto to R1 redhorn tho in terms of "worthy investment", redhorn is probably going to give you more bang for your buck.

[at the risk of getting destroyed by weapon banner RNG ]

[whole juniper]

I'm at 8/7/8 talents atm, what should I level up next?

[brave crow]

AA

[trim willow]

Pyro itto

[slate kestrel]

what is the best team for itto now?

what is the best team for itto now and when yunjin releases?

[patent galleon]

yunjin wont change anything, Itto uses charged attacks as his main source of dmg. Yunjin buffs Normals only

[frigid hound]

Where rev melt itto

[analog obsidian]

[inland dagger]

No Kazuha so I gotta do a budgeted one
https://streamable.com/gnfsnl

[storm tulip]

It is worse, he has ICD, and his stacking mechanic, so it is really inconsistent, also since I have c6 bennet it is not nearly as good as this

The video that I posted actuallt looks like I have shit crit rate but I have 70% on that build I just got real unlucky

Also with c1 you can press Q before you swap off of itto to stack up for next rotation it is really nice to be honest

[frigid hound]

[slim pivot]

Can someone please tell me how inferior is Vortex vanquisher for zhongli.

I have staff of homa, and i use it on my Xiao, so I'm thinking of getting vortex for zhongli

[primal wing]

Is blackliff worth it for Itto? Can't get serpent spine unfortunately

[iron apex]

just use whiteblind if you can't get serpent

[reef stump]

0 Stack Blackcliff is just as strong as R5 Whiteblind on Itto, so if you dont have 5 CLaymore Billets or dont want to spend them Blackcliff is a good alternative, especially since Blackcliff doesnt need refinements

[primal wing]

Yeah I have the billets but it just seems kinda pointless to r5 a weapon so that it's as good as one I can buy, specially because I can use blackliff on other characters while whiteblind is useless

[spark aurora]

thats one of the reasons actually, wb is so specialized that it wont compete with what other characters want

[reef stump]

Problem with VV on ZL is that it doesn't really help him in his usual builds. The shield strength only applies to himself, not the Team. The Passive won't stack up since he doesnt AA, making VV just a 5* ATK stick on him, which isn't even that great since he scales on both ATK and HP.
Ironically VV with a shielder is competitive with PJWS and Homa on XIao though

[reef stump]

If you dont mind spending the Glitter then Blackcliff is a very good option for F2p and as you said yourself its transferable so might come in handy later aswell

[primal wing]

Yeah I only use glitter for wishes if I need them, as I've been pretty unlucky with 4 stars and like having that guarantee, so I'll buy blackliff

[slim pivot]

I see, thanks for the insight

Then can you tell me about how good calamity queller would be on Zhongli?

[reef stump]

Probably quite similar to VV in effect since it also just acts as an ATK stick.

[slim pivot]

I see

But wouldn't the off-field passive be much better than VV for him?

Plus cause of the excess atk u can build HP on his sands for a better shield

Or is that just not the case entirely

[steep marsh]

cause his pillar snapshots

[slim pivot]

It snapshots for what

[reef stump]

It snapshots ZLs stats at the time of cast

so the off-field effect just does nothing for him

[slim pivot]

I see .... that's a shame

But does it snap shot the atk buff for the piller and shield

Or for his ult that u can cast later aswell

[reef stump]

And generally HP vs ATK sands is quite a small difference and you dont need an ATK heavy wepaon to justify it

[slim pivot]

Ok, understandable

Thanks for the info

[reef stump]

Shield doesnt scale with ATK so there is nothing to snapshot there. Ult just takes the stats at the time of casting and he can't cast Q off-field, so its only the ~20% ATK at best you get w/o the extra off-field effect

[slim pivot]

Ohhh i see

Oh well... guess the weapon banner is a skip again...

Thanks for the info

[whole juniper]

Just to double-check: When people were theorycrafting pre-release I remember some talk of having to delay switching after Gorou Q to get full benefits. Is that actually a thing? Right now I just switch immediately

[primal wing]

I remember seeing it in the kqm findings channel. Itto doesn't get Gorous defense buff if you alt switch to him, but it's fine otherwise

Unless that's not what you meant?

[whole juniper]

Ah I don't alt-switch, I just press Itto's number right after Q on Gorou

then Q as fast as I can on Itto after that

[primal wing]

Yeah then you should have no problems, also fellow c0 Itto c6 Gorou haver huh! We got lucky asf

[whole juniper]

Ye 😄 super happy about it

[primal wing]

[whole juniper]

It was funny too - had only gotten c5 when all my primos were out, was ready to call it a day, then realized I had gotten a few barbara after her c6. So I bought a few more pulls from starglitter and got c6 gorou on literally my last pull

[primal wing]

Niceee

[storm tulip]

If you want any spear at all this patch get jade winged spear for xiao and give homa to zhongli

[slim pivot]

Yea but I'm not gonna risk my pity

Unless the other weapon is decent aswell

And what i got from raikh is that...i guess i could pull VV trying to get Amos for Ganyu, and it wouldn't be as bad on Xiao with a shield

[ancient pecan]

for some reason when you play xiao with ZL it's better to swap their signature weapons VV xiao and PJWS ZL

ZL release was so cursed
not only his kit but also his weapon line had issues

[frigid hound]

its so cursed that the bow for ZL series got cancelled

[analog obsidian]

Dream of dragonfell never existed

[frigid hound]

banner would die if it existed could only be carried by the big boi weapons

[muted arrow]

pjws is whatever for zl right?

about deathmatch tier

[ancient pecan]

it's still a 5* so the high base atk helps when you don't have benny i think

[brave crow]

quad geo is fun

[slim pivot]

Danggg

[ancient stone]

This abyss buff is one of the biggest I've seen in recent memory

While some really pushed certain characters, this one boosts mono teams to FAR higher limits than I have ever seen before

[next atlas]

I saw my itto hit 80k swings and felt like a whale

[static mural]

i think maybe i have problems in playing itto because i need the heals

[brave crow]

i got lucky with the abyss card that heals after using burst on the second chamber, otherwise i would've struggled too

and i also have c6 gorou which heals enough to offset the corrosion

[next atlas]

I feel like zhong enough to keep itto alive corrosiob does pepega dmg

[brave crow]

yeah corrosion does so little dmg it's a non-issue

but someone was arguing with me that hu tao absolutely needs shield and heal against the dogs the other day

[next atlas]

Id say either a shield or a healer is enough but not both

[brave crow]

maybe a shielder for c0, but she needs neither tbh

[next atlas]

Tbh harder to manage stamina at c0 so c1 prolly can just dodge more

Or just as usual skill issue

[brave crow]

i used to do n1cd at c0

very fun

[inland dagger]

I'm so pissed at the comments on Itto Before You Wish Guide by KQM

[onyx junco]

what are they saying?

[inland dagger]

People are calling it out for being "Late" and some even said that Itto is not that hard to TC so why is the video even late

[brave crow]

i think i saw your comment on that video too

people being whiny for no reason is so

[ancient pecan]

also this

[inland dagger]

[onyx junco]

i think this is kinda cap, but im biased af so

[charred crag]

I have several problems with it but it's not a good time to bring them up since the KQM youtube team is flooded with criticisms about it atm haha. I stayed constructive at least. I'm also fairly itto-biased which is why it's so weird how biased the video comes across in the other direction, especially compared to, say, the hutao "before you pull" that bothered mentioning constellations.

TBF a lot of the most "triggering" parts of the video are less so when you take in the full context/what's said before or after screenshots, but "this team with no mechanical caveats to manage isn't capable of beating Hutao's Elegy-Amber pyro VV or Raiden National with 3 equally-highly-invested DPS chars" being used as a primary "con", and "existent but subpar AOE" (what?) alongside the overall failure to mention mono-geo/adding zhongli alongside albedo and gorou for permanent geo resonance, additional aoe dmg, moderate CC and even lower ER requirements are pretty bad calls/hot takes imo.

I do agree that the current abyss cycle makes it extremely hard to judge itto's realistic strength though if you CBA to test on things like PMA/kenki/primovishap/midnight masanori

Especially the new blessing, I barreled through this one without even paying any attention

[sturdy acorn]

use your best goblet but different elements you will know itto strength

play him at the first floor also

[charred crag]

I've already done plenty of testing in overworld to know how much dmg I should expect outside of derpy abyss buffs lol, against both regular and geo-resistant enemies. It just makes it hard to showcase for people hesitant to pull/build for him, definitely worth mentioning that this abyss is skewed, though he's still very strong without any of these blessings

"sufficient, but not comparable" is a pretty condescending take on him but only because I'm not sure who their target audience is meant to be between "I don't know anything " and "second place on spreadsheets might as well be last place" chasers

he's pretty damn competitive and puts almost* zero restrictions on your second "meta" team outside of wanting zhong and albedo.

[patent galleon]

i mean tbh abyss has almost always catered to the current running units in one way or another

[rigid bay]

Jokes on you, I'm all for another Albedo situation where people didn't want him initially and suddenly now everyone's hauling ass for him

[patent galleon]

people seem to have forgotten the physical abyss buffs when Eula was running, or the insane EM/swirl buffs for Kaz

its nothing new

[patent galleon]

Kazuha tbh

[rigid bay]

Honestly, I'm not even gonna spend my energy convincing the crowd that would easily follow a source without their own research or information backing their belief on a character, they can pull for who they believe to be the best, all things considered

I'm just happy that I even got new geo to play with after so long to be honest

[charred crag]

fair outlook

[rigid bay]

Like, I'll spend some effort if the one pulling are my close buds and I don't want them to waste their primogems if 'efficiency' is what they are looking for

[charred crag]

I'm sadge people don't admire new husbando as much as they rightly should

[rigid bay]

General strangers? Yeah, not really

[charred crag]

I fucking love(d) noelle mono geo long before this patch, and itto is somehow even more fun. I even like ning's mechanics, wonky-ness and all.

[patent galleon]

personally im at the point where pulling peak meta characters isnt as much of a priority anyway, genshins end game is a joke as is tbh.

[charred crag]

very true

[patent galleon]

plus i fell into the meta sink hole once with ganyu and regret it because i dont actually enjoy her gameplay despite her strength.

[charred crag]

didn't want to put my foot in my mouth, I've been 36*ing since the 2021/3 waning phase with one brief sting of 34-35 I think I gave up on in May chasing meta is definitely not something I consider even fruitful as far as meaningful endeavors in genshin go

the investment floor to do the highest challenge with actual rewards is so low that it's almost laughable to look down on "off meta" comps from my perspective, anyway

[rigid bay]

Meanwhile me:

You guys get to F12?

Jk

I can technically clear abyss and 36 if I wanted to, but honestly I can't be bothered, if only there was coop abyss rather

[charred crag]

saw a whale with a ton of c6r5s apparently strugging in abyss a few days ago

coop

[rigid bay]

In fact I wanted this irminsul event to be one, because it was way fucking harder to actually get all rewards

But then like

2 debuffs and max enemy hp

[charred crag]

was it really?

[rigid bay]

On expert and that's it

W u t

[charred crag]

was it actually harder to get all rewards this time around? I'm a lot more invested than last time it ran around because I have nothing better to do lmao, but didn't notice

[patent galleon]

getting the rewards is easy tbh

[rigid bay]

Yeah if my memory served correctly like, old irminsul event required you to essentially had all but one or two debuff and without time limit to get it all

But this one, two debuff and max enemy hp

And you're good to go

[charred crag]

oh wait you meant the opposite

gotcha

[rigid bay]

Yeah

I was like, wait, this can't be right

You can't have turned it this easy MIHOYO

https://tenor.com/view/norman-osborn-oh-you-cant-do-this-to-me-spiderman-no-ways-gif-17373736

[charred crag]

I was like wat, unga bunga max points ez

[rigid bay]

I could but no incentive to other than pure suffering tbf

[patent galleon]

ill admit on max difficulty this event is such a massive survivability check, even with full Geo and full HP ToM zhongli/shield strength crystal and food buff you can still have zhongli's shield get 1 tapped

[inland dagger]

Yeah lmao people should call out the problems inside the vid itself just like what Batts mentioned

I think maybe they are frustrated with the result and just blamed it on the release date instead

[charred crag]

I gave the fuck up on the last one 8k with PMA and the zones lmfao, but I already had max rewards before the third fight

[patent galleon]

too many people worship KQM so tbh its kind of a waste to bother

[inland dagger]

Maybe BYW should be made by someone who was passionate on Itto but is also objective, but yeah I think it might be hard to find someone in their team

[rigid bay]

That's what I said, this event feels like a wasted potential

I would have loved for some more reward on higher points, even if it's miniscule

But I guess people gonna cry about it

For missing out

[inland dagger]

and or once again, a massive DPS check, how much DPS can you execute in a small time frame of when which you are not in the zone

[rigid bay]

I just hope a co-op abyss of version would eventually be released

[inland dagger]

Just glad primos isn't locked on max points

[rigid bay]

It'd probably be more fun to play honestly

[patent galleon]

the DPS part wasnt an issue for me tbh, most of my best teams had the damage for it on max difficulty tbh. it was more a matter of not getting 1 shot

[charred crag]

I think TC under standardized, generalized assumptions is inherently (almost fatally) flawed when you use some arbitrary sim and average and just take that number in the results column... and preach it like the gospel without understanding said flaws and how little the assumptions may be applicable in a gacha game with RNG subs and many different combat scenarios lol

it's helpful for providing a base picture but like... that's literally it, and you need to understand your own situation beyond that very vague base

[rigid bay]

'just dodge bro'

my favorite skill issue gif thus far

wait

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-skill-issue-gif-21867945

there u go

[inland dagger]

Yep maybe thats the case for us, I watched people who is not really in a level of having good artifact sets/weapons and such and they survive because the circle dodging is easy, but they cannot kill it in time

Just get 50 CV I guess

[rigid bay]

i mean...

[inland dagger]

...

[rigid bay]

and yes im still living with this.

[inland dagger]

[rigid bay]

like, i cant for the life of me find a good cdmg circlet

it doesnt help because my crate circlet is pretty decent

[charred crag]

ez, just get way better cdmg subs on all other pieces

[spark aurora]

what happened

[rigid bay]

oh believe me i tried, thats the end result lmfao

[inland dagger]

I am on my 76th pull earlier and I managed to swipe my 7th gorou before getting C1 and I was on the verge of shitting myself

Just want to know if bennett or ning is better as 3rd slot with zhong

No albedo moment

[rigid bay]

itto ascension stat, serpent spine, decent c.rate circlet which means harder to get even better cdmg circlet

[charred crag]

My itto fucking wrecks and has less CV xD c6 gorou though I guess if you're lacking that. At least my ratio is balanced haha

[rigid bay]

yeah i aint having c6 gorou

im crying in

11 xianglings

and 10 barbaras

[charred crag]

took me like 230 rolls that I've been stockpiling since ayaka and sniping raiden

[inland dagger]

If ever gorou comes back soon which banner would like you like to have him

[charred crag]

kazoo

[rigid bay]

sorry what this gave me aneurysm

[charred crag]

with sara, gorou and... idgaf, sayu or thoma or something

[inland dagger]

Oh God I mean which future banner would you want gorou in

I think thats more understandable I guess

[rigid bay]

obviously best case scenario would be with another new geo banner char

but thats just a hopeless wish

[inland dagger]

So next year

[rigid bay]

i have lived 11 months without a new one

i can bet my ass i will live through it again

[charred crag]

I don't want another geo carry, I want a new geo shielder or support that will let me build a second coherent mono geo team xD

[rigid bay]

eh another dps or burst dps geo wouldnt hurt, we've technically only gotten one 5 star dps thus far tbh

for geo

i mean there is albedo but i guess he counts as damage support? lmao idk

or rather

just keep spamming out new geos

thats fine too

on a 2nd thought, just do it between one patches, otherwise il die

[charred crag]

My zhong is pretty ok, idk xD and my albedo is doing 30k hits from off field every 2 sec, but yeah. I mostly want new supports to make C6 Noelle (and/or c6 Ning) work fantastic on a second mono geo team lmao

[inland dagger]

It's been a year and I only have C1 ning

[charred crag]

I feel bad for sidelining my geo waifus atm, esp with ning costume around the corner

[rigid bay]

meanwhile me who just got c3 ningg from standard

[charred crag]

just get luckier, sounds like a player issue

[rigid bay]

while i do hope for new geo chars coming

not having new ones means saving a whole ass load more of primos for the eventual new ones

and being able to make my current ones stronger

so its a win/win situation nonetheless ig

[charred crag]

I'm thankful they're adding yunjin to the lantern roster, I can continue hoarding for kazoo rerun since I skipped him for ayaya lol

[rigid bay]

time to spend 6 months farming husk domain

3 for albedo

3 for itto

[inland dagger]

Same, if Yae's skill isn't fun for me Imma get my boy kazoo too

[rigid bay]

and then another 3 months for the rest of geo family, specifically ningguang who could use a better artifact

rip my noelle for now though

down for the count since her weapon is stolen

[charred crag]

I might get around to making a whiteblind finally

that or I'll just give her my skypride cuz itto definitely owns my r5 SS

I'll be interested in seeing how something like c6 noelle/yunjin/albedo/gorou works, but it's kind of w/e atm.

[rigid bay]

ez just

get another r5 ss

[charred crag]

itto/zhong/ning/GMC on the other side doesn't sound like a very fluid comp but I also doubt I couldn't make it work lol

[rigid bay]

il just do

itto gorou albedo zl
ningg yunjin gmc noelle

scuffed af but nothing stopping me from running two mono

time to cry

[charred crag]

also sounds reasonable

[rigid bay]

my main problem is still needing to find a weapon for noelle lol

deadass no claymore protos

yes im calling them protos

[spark aurora]

[charred crag]

just pull redhorn, you have time

[rigid bay]

ah yes lemme just pull this non existent wallet of mine

[spark aurora]

actually speaking of weapon banner

[rigid bay]

lol i can almost imagine the weapon banner spatting at u

honestly imagine even getting it early pity

[charred crag]

I had a few leftover wishes from the c20 barb and c15 xiangling, so I threw a little at the weapon banner to see what stuck

[spark aurora]

i bought a blackcliff for mr.arataki

[charred crag]

and I got spooked by early pity 😄

by harp

[rigid bay]

tbf skyward harp is pretty good overall weapon

got a cv as substat

[charred crag]

yep it's on my c6 fischl now

[rigid bay]

i guess the one small silver lining of doing like

250 pulls on itto banner

is

R5 uhh

i forgot that bow name for venti

lol

[charred crag]

stringless?

[rigid bay]

yea that

R5 string, thats it

ignoring the fucking boatload of rainslashers

[charred crag]

I got mine from r3 to r4, ye

[spark aurora]

how's gorou

[charred crag]

I finally r5'd the bell

[rigid bay]

dead in the ditch, my hope that is

[rigid bay]

literal c4

[charred crag]

c6 gorou is awesome and you're gonna chase his rerun

[spark aurora]

[charred crag]

real glad they learned from c6 sara and it's not bullshit 6s long

4NO crit/def/def with r5 fav, nothing special but the low heals don't matter that much with immortal zhong shield

Enough to keep your active character from dying to corrosion and since off field chars can't die from it that's really all you need, assuming you don't kill wolves before you have that much corrosion stacked up

[unique rover]

Tbf they have nukers

Geo is purely sustained (to an extent)

By nukers I mean raiden

Maybe yae we'll see

[dapper bramble]

the blessing is cracked. you can go mono comp like this and still has 30s on last chmber. c0

but does the physical dmg reset the dmg as well?

[spark aurora]

it doesnt

since physical isnt an element

[dapper bramble]

oh i waste my time not attcking in downtime.

[steep marsh]

just get lucky, its not that hard

[violet bolt]

[hybrid relic]

man you pulled stonethresher

[steep marsh]

yeah, rage pulled it cause I got disappointed as fuck with Shenhe

[hybrid relic]

you dont like her as character or her kit

[steep marsh]

I already has 30 pity from the Homa banner
so I just used 120 pulls in total

[steep marsh]

character

[hybrid relic]

well fair enough. I will wait until I see her character

btw Zack is writting an essay

[steep marsh]

I couldn't really wait cause Redhorn would be out if I did
so I just read her voicelines/stories and man...

[storm tulip]

It is very wrong, one of my biggest issues with how theorycrafting of team dps is done in KQM is consistency of reaching said dps

Itto team is probably the most consistent team I have played in terms of getting damage out in general, like trying to get a very fast clear with the team is not something I need to "try" to do, it just happens and fluctuates very little

Even hyper raiden or raiden national or childe nat can fluctuate very heavily due to enemy positioning due to how that affects swirls or xiangling vaporizes, overload inherent knockback can work against you too (especially on the current dogs), etc.

And looking at how my c0 r5 spine itto team was dishing out on average 1.5 million damage in playtesting per 20 second rotation I still find the "not as good as other meta teams to be very suspect"

[hybrid relic]

I mean keep in mind this abyss is heavily tailored for itto.

[storm tulip]

That is why I did my testing at c0 before these last 2 abyss leylines

Discounting the crystallize dmg is something that is very easy to do

[hybrid relic]

fair enough

[muted arrow]

pretty sure the itto pic referred to the genshin sheetpact game

not genshin impact

[reef stump]

Question would be where "other Meta Teams" starts and ends

bc he is surely not worse than Xiao and Eula

[muted arrow]

teams with xiangling = meta

[reef stump]

not even on paper

[muted arrow]

no xiangling no meta

except morgana

[red umbra]

I would confidently say itto is better than both of those 2

by a definitive margin

[brave crow]

qol he sure is better

[muted arrow]

I feel the same

[brave crow]

energy wise

movement wise

imo

better than xiao and eula i mean

[steep marsh]

same

[reef stump]

And if we say he is a bit behind Raiden Comps, well thats the top end of the Meta itself.

[muted arrow]

at the end of the day don't get too bothered by analysis by focus too much on the raw math calc

some characters are called sheet queens/kings for a reason

Like I wouldn't say itto is worse than c0 hu tao at all regardless of how big her damage looks on sheet

[red umbra]

he feels a lot like a higher ceiling xiao to me ngl

his aoe is really large and his consistency is nuts between running zhongli, highly sustained damage window and crazy uptime

[brave crow]

video said he has subpar aoe though

[red umbra]

that's the main thing i disagreed with ngl

[brave crow]

and a lot of people in kqm also think he has worse aoe than noelle

[red umbra]

Noelle has monster aoe tho

[brave crow]

[hybrid relic]

I mean yeah but the noelle AOE is insane

[brave crow]

fair

[hybrid relic]

if lets say xiao aoe is like circle. Itto aoe is more like hour glass which is more than sufficient

[red umbra]

main benefit of him to me is competitive ceiling with strong practical performance and low opportunity cost of supports

[brave crow]

idgaf about noelle and her fans anyways so

[red umbra]

hitting good numbers without bennett kaz xq is nice

[steep marsh]

yeah, I disagree with that A LOT

[muted arrow]

lmao

[brave crow]

the range of his attacks can be deceiving if we're going by visuals alone

but whatever

[steep marsh]

tbh, Noelle fans are chill
people that say that Itto is worse than her arent even Noelle mains i'm pretty sure

[brave crow]

i disagree with some things in the video, but i don't really care that much

and i hang around kqm a lot

[red umbra]

i think he's v strong if u consider him as a 'team 2 carry'

[muted arrow]

same people who say you can hit multiple enemies with hu tao CA if you position them right prob

[brave crow]

nah man, have you seen the subreddit

a literal dumpster fire

don't really understand why both noelle and xiao fans speaking on itto tbh

it's almost as if they're different units

[steep marsh]

I mean, I say that but I also run Sucrose
so I have some off-field grouping

[brave crow]

oh yeah, when someone in kqm said

why is itto's aoe so much inferior to noelle's

and i said

why is noelle's speed so much inferior to itto

they replied

itto's CA has the same speed as noelle's without the atk spd bonus

first of all why are you discounting a feature of his kit like this for the sake of comparison

[reef stump]

Tbh if enemies sit at the egde of Noelle's hitrange your positioning could probably see improvement

[muted arrow]

Hu tao is really good but at times it's easy to ignore how her issues are detrimental for her in varying ways depending on the context, and just look at the general picture which is her peak damage instead

I guarantee you hu tao mains will press that retry button more often than itto mains tho

[brave crow]

i play both in abyss

[red umbra]

it's ceiling vs consistency really

[brave crow]

hu tao is technically more dmg at the cost of being more mechanically demanding
itto being more consistent and somewhat easier to play
it's a good trade-off

[reef stump]

consistency is hard to measure on paper

[brave crow]

i do think the video highlights his ease of use well, to make up for technically lower dmg

[muted arrow]

this is why it would be interesting to estimate how easy it is for each character to reach the hypothetical damage cealing in realistic game scenarios

[red umbra]

consistency vs ceiling is kinda something that depends on the user tho

[brave crow]

although i would also argue that hu tao is more consistent than a lot of other popular carries

but that also depends on the player

[muted arrow]

this isn't easy ofc but assuming that peak tells a realistic story can also be misleading

[red umbra]

not just skill level but what they want from a unit

if they want to raise their ceiling to meet a certain dps check then units like hutao will be more desireable in relative terms than units like itto

whilst if ur already hovering around the dps check units like itto are arguably more valuable

[brave crow]

imagine playing eula and doing all that song and dance to make her burst crit or land on the right enemies
and it does the same dmg as like 3 hu tao CAs
i would jump off a cliff

[red umbra]

eula sheet dmg is super smoge when u consider the hoops u have to jump through

[reef stump]

Eula's sheet dmg isn't super insane even if you ignore that she has some practicality issues

with Benny it gets scary but Benny is usually not a Eula staple

[red umbra]

tbh i'd like to see what eula benny sheet dmg looks like

[muted arrow]

I think something that we have to consider is that game design wise ,it doesn't make sense for mihoyo to structure content in a way the current best consistent damage dealers ( itto, xiao ) can't meet the minimum the minimum damage required to 36* abyss for example

[red umbra]

ik it's not the most practical but if u consider and use eula as a 'ceiling raiser' unit i dont think using bennett to achieve that goal is the worst idea

[muted arrow]

so even when you consider the future proof argument, it might not necessarily mean higher dps characters will outlast the safer units

[red umbra]

yeah this is true but equally for less invested players there is some value in having ceiling raiser units

that would let them meet dps checks which they wouldn't be able to meet otherwise

[muted arrow]

This is true, but what I've seen in general gameplay is that for most people managing rotations in prolonged fights becomes really messy after the 2nd one, which results in really ugly gameplay potentially. This is aggravated when the characters have serious caveats

so I don't think it's that clear

[red umbra]

yeah that's true the average player probably struggles with bringing out the ceiling of a given unit more than actually having the investment required to meet a dps check

but it's a largely subjective thing that u cant rlly quantify

that said i do think the kqm vid should have prob given more credence to the value of extremely practical dps output

[brave crow]

they did though, right?

[reef stump]

Would have to look into adjusting requirements and Team Comps to give a proper ballpark but its basically like 40% more dmg on Eula if you keep the same requirements and don't ditch SC or so for it. So it basically brings her personal DPS from middling to really really high for a C0 5* DPS

[muted arrow]

I'm rather bugged that these analysis ( ten ten's as well) get called meta analysis, but there is almost no talk of how the characters adapts to different enemies, which is exactly what meta is. Meta is not actually the sheets, at least not entirely

[brave crow]

tenten's content is a joke and should not be given any credit imo

[red umbra]

sheesh

[brave crow]

remember when he trashed raiden and kokomi to oblivion

[red umbra]

would it work with raiden eula comp i wonder

[muted arrow]

so I guess the assumption is that as a baseline, if your hypothetical dps is x, you can find a way to reach that regardless of the situation, and I just can't agree with that

[red umbra]

idk how long rotations are but if u run 30s rotations u could bennett Q twice

[muted arrow]

analyzing characters can be very tough, and doing that at near release that has a high margin of error. What I'm bothered about is the methodology, which assumes damage calc is enough to describe meta

[red umbra]

yeah i agree, imo evaluations should be contextualised in several different situations

like

[muted arrow]

for example yoimiya can feel much better than described by damage calcs alone depending on the situation, but will these meta talks tell you that? idk

[steep marsh]

this is exactly my problem with people that trash ShieldFei over Amber and Xinyan tbh

[red umbra]

ST, aoe, mobile enemies, comfort/margin for error, unit opportunity cost, frontload vs backload, and return on resin investment at diff breakpoints

i feel like comps should be evaluated separately according to each of these factors

[muted arrow]

yeah and that would result in a huge amount of work to do, and it's understandable if they prefer not to for that reason, but at least put a disclaimer or something idk

[brave crow]

good point, and i agree with you. i'm more speaking broadly about tenten's content because he tends to do what is equivalent to doomposting a lot

[muted arrow]

well I think first and foremost he tries to be a good youtuber rather than a good analyst

[brave crow]

that is true

[reef stump]

What we fundamentally lack is usable in-game data that shows comp performance.
Not only is the data gathering a problem but both Resin and Primo investment also dilute data quite substantially unless the sample sizes are large enough to average out results properly.

In games like WoW Sims/Sheets are basically an almost purely supportive tool rather than something that would actively dictate any Meta but there Gear is largely streamlined and the data is accessible, so you can actually see Class performance in practice.

[red umbra]

yeah the problem is a lot of these factors are too important to ignore but equally there's not quantitative way to evaluate them

[solar leaf]

Yo. Do we have any team dmg calcs for Itto and Noelle?

[storm tulip]

I havent seen any noelle main say itto is worse than her, I've only seen people who say noelle mains say he is worse than her

[next atlas]

Tbh noelle mains just have bad rep in reddit

[solar leaf]

Huh, afaik Noelle mains are interested in Yunjin in Noelle comps

[next atlas]

Its a genshin reddit kekw theyre probably just steroetyping

[charred crag]

Lmao I was going to screenshot a very indepth complaint about TCing and the impracticality/flaw of using assumptions under some standardized amount of fluid optimal subs and some arbitrarily picked enemy/arbitrarily dense AOE and using the number in the results column of a spreadsheet to try to objectively say that team X is worse than team Y in a "meta" sense while utterly disregarding how impractical that is in a game with layered RNG arti farms and a constantly changing lineup of enemies and situations...
But I think someone deleted it

Even doing things like "X weapon is 15% better than Y weapon" relies on substat assumptions that change on an individual basis. These kinds of analyses, while useful to set a base impression, are so far from being practically applicable to in-game situations that it's laughable that so much of the community preaches them like the gospel.

Figuring out optimal or most consistent team rotations, ER thresholds and stuff like frame counting, ICDs and MV analysis to better optimize Raiden/hutao/itto combos? Absolutely useful, on the other hand.

[ancient pecan]

tl;dr
just use XL /s

[hybrid relic]

Man love seing people argue about KQM itto vids

people are coming with feelscrafting than actual math

[ancient pecan]

is there any tc on double geo comps with ZL? ER would normally be a problem but i'm currently trying r5 sac itto so it should be fine

[charred crag]

What kind of math would you have liked to see on either side, considering the video presented no math so it's hard to use math in response?

What kind of math is going to be useful to prove one way or the other "existent but subpar aoe"

[storm tulip]

"subpar AoE" compared to who is the question? Venti? Kazuha? Xiao? Noelle?
Xiao literally cannot do this to the wolves without hand holding from abyss walls

I wouldnt really consider this arc right here and the distance these wolves are at to be "subpar"

the wolf in front of itto could even be further back and still get hit

[robust hollow]

Anyone has had ecperience with running noelle as a healer in itto comps? I've been trying a bit, but ER seems to be huge issue. Losing either Raiden or Gorou both feels meh. I'll get Zhong soon but miss Albedo. I probably just need to accept that's not a comp that can work, right? :/

[sturdy acorn]

just go Itto - Geo MC - Zhongli - Gorou

that's also a great comp

yeah u lose like 10% compared to the best but which comp doesn't?

[little quiver]

I'm afraid to ask if you don't have ZL and albedo, why is your choice of replacement in itto team Raiden or Gorou?

[sturdy acorn]

in that case u should save for ZL or running sth like Itto-Gorou-Geo MC - bennet

Raiden does not work very well with itto im afraid

[primal wing]

She provides crystallize... I guess

And extends rotations

[robust hollow]

Long story short, I didn't wanna get Itto, as I had neither ZL nor Albedo, only C6 Noelle and a C5 Ningguang. So no Geo stuff. Got him in my first 10-wish (trying to get my first copy of Gorou). Now I loved him, spent all my primos, have his 5* weapon a c6 gorou.
But I really love noelle so I'm really unsure what my fourth should be

I really wanna make my Noelle work tho, but I'm not sure how I'm gonna fit both and still have proper ER and Gorou's buff. Just get Zhong for 4th and run full geo?

[primal wing]

Noelle support is just not good unfortunately. Takes too much field time for meager heals and has bad uptime with shield

That's why she's run as a mdps

[little quiver]

Noelle's healing is more than fine, it's not Kokomi or Qiqi level but it's really good

[robust hollow]

My Noelle's only level 70 or so, but her heals are definitely worth

[primal wing]

Itto Gorou geo mc Diona is an option for heals + shields

[robust hollow]

and she shreds while healing

[primal wing]

The field time she takes is still not ideal in any situation

That's time you should be batterying

Energy deficit too, forgot to mention

[little quiver]

If you want to play Noelle - Gorou team I'd say don''t try to have a rotation that include them both, only switch to Noelle when you need the slightly different AoE radius range and healing
So you have a 3 men Team Rotation Itto-Gorou - Ning if you really want.
You are probably going to have to use Favonius on Itto and on Ningguang until you figure out your ER recquirement

[robust hollow]

Yeah, the energy is the issue that made me ask in the first place

What do you guys consider cons/pros for either ning or geo mc for fourth in that setup?

[primal wing]

Favonius on Itto is too extreme of a sacrifice even if temporary, imo. I don't think trying to optimize this comp for abyss is worth. Overworld and domains should be ez tho

[robust hollow]

yeah obv I'm looking for overworld and stuff

but for overworld i really wanna make the best out of it

[little quiver]

Obviously no Favonius on Itto but definitely on Gorou and if you don't have hte ER have to feel confortable in the rotation for energy, use fav on Ning too but a Geo MC with sacrificial could be better for just battery

Make a copy of one of those and tweak things to see what could work
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/113J1xXIBVD0QxtGI4p-QxJLXFpCuQUTy-8Hzl4mCV0I/edit#gid=0
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-vkmgp5n0bI9pvhUg110Aza3Emb2puLWdeoCgrxDlu4/edit#gid=842240269

[robust hollow]

merci

[primal wing]

Honestly I use geo mc because of the synergy with Zhongli, but imo the crit rate buff is more valuable than the geo dmg from Ningguang's screen, considering you already get geo dmg from Gorou and husk apart from the goblet

Geo mc is also good for dealing with multiple enemies because of the burst caging them in, while Ningguang is more St-focused

[robust hollow]

hmm that sounds fair

any positioning issues bc of geo mc's E though?

i played her some but sometimes it got wonky

but i guess that's practice mostly

[primal wing]

That was actually my concern as well, but Itto's aoe during burst is so big I haven't had any problems

[robust hollow]

aight thanks

[primal wing]

Specially for the dogs at least, because they teleport to you they end up getting stuck inside MC's burst lol