Itto Thread

[frosty ferry]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874887484553707530/921674528181063760/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874887484553707530/921674842145714226/unknown.png

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/874887484553707530/921816681007951952/unknown.png

[somber sandal]

LFMAO

[strong escarp]

Does anyone have any excel for itto or gorou?

[nocturne sorrel]

nobody does

and even if we did, they definitely wouldn't be pinned in this channel

[patent galleon]

[frosty ferry]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_YeQTjQWnIuaZznoABPh7xDEunnVN6l4ANasrrJMsbc/edit?usp=sharing

[strong escarp]

Thank my lord, that is the thing i was searching

[charred crag]

Figured out how to do a rotation setup safely against wolves; just have to make good use of ushi's taunt.

Way less RNG, just have to deal with the big wolf doing whatever the fuck it chooses to while you kill it haha

[solar leaf]

Since people actually did the math on her teams

[charred crag]

https://streamable.com/8ofv6p Noelle is still smoother, but itto is so fun to rotate through lol

[red umbra]

oh yeah fully aware her teams are up there with the best in the game lol

Having fairly competitive teams with the top tiers doesn’t make a unit best in the game lol

[charred crag]

but I saw a tier list next to some spreadsheet numbers I take for granted from a youtuber

[muted arrow]

uh raiden isn't the best character in the game at c0

[red umbra]

she's a fantastic unit with multiple highly competitive teams but best unit in the game is a VERY bold claim to make

[muted arrow]

that's like saying kokomi is top 3 because of her pokemon team

but I do believe raiden is the most valuable archon at c0 at this point

really dislike venti currently

[red umbra]

yeah zhongli and venti feel more like qol units these days

[charred crag]

I'll never get the obsession over who's "best" in a game with 4 team members and the highest meaningful bar being 36* and achievable by like, 2 4* units on each side lol

[red umbra]

venti is an early game cheatcode which to be fair shouldn't be overlooked but his lategame role is basically reduced to being a skip button for all the boring stages and floors 9 10 and 11

[patent galleon]

tbf the games content progression hasnt been kind to Venti, and somewhat hurts zhongli with new mechanics

Raiden however is perfect for how the games been progressing

[red umbra]

there's an argument to be made that once ur clearly above the investment check venti and zl are actually quite valuable as insane qol units but that's not something that does or should come into tc recommendations rlly

Raiden meanwhile is the carry equivalent of a swiss army knife with a v respectable ceiling too which makes her perfect for early game and late game

[solar leaf]

Bennett's still OP

[muted arrow]

I just think venti went from being a "must pull" to a "very situational" pull

[patent galleon]

abyss has been nearly anti CC for awhile now, lots of larger enemies that dont give a damn about Venti's Q and can just walk out of it

[red umbra]

Bennett and kazuha are both ridiculous

[muted arrow]

he feels bang average as a support currently

[patent galleon]

mainly floor 12

[muted arrow]

I think in current floor 12 even sucrose shits on venti

[solar leaf]

But Raiden is a top tier carry and a top tier support. Raiden Hyper Carry and Raiden National are of the best teams in the game

[red umbra]

in the carry department she's up there tho, largely bc of her flexibility - i think the only carry i'd maybe recommend over her is ayaka tbh

as a pull*

[solar leaf]

And she'll only get better as more energy hungry chars are released

[patent galleon]

if abyss ever makes a heavy return to mobs then Venti would see a jump in value again.

[red umbra]

yeah room to grow still

[solar leaf]

So imo she's the closest to a must pull, other than bennett

[muted arrow]

kazuha is more of a must pull than raiden

[reef stump]

Raiden certainly has immensely good propositions for an Account given how many Comps she can glue together.

[red umbra]

carries are just more expendable than supports basically which is why i can never rlly recommend a carry as must pull

yeah what raiden has over others is a ridiculous amount of flexibility

[solar leaf]

This basically

[patent galleon]

Raiden somewhat bridges the gap between support and carry tho

she isnt strictly a carry

[solar leaf]

When I say Raiden is top tier isn't because she's stronger than other carries or stronger than other supports

[red umbra]

as far as carries go i think she is top 2 at least in terms of pull value

[solar leaf]

It's that if you're limited in 5 stars, she'll always help you make a team better

She makes National better

She makes Eula better

She can carry if you're missing that

Etc

[red umbra]

yeah early game especially she has so much value bc ur unit pool is smaller so flexibility is inherently more valuable

but her lategame performance is still respectable too

well more than just respectable

[reef stump]

At the very top end Raiden is the best unit in the entire game atm

aka whale speedruns

[red umbra]

yeah if you factor in the possibility of whaling she is

so much of this depends on the parameters u set

[solar leaf]

Yeah

She's not overpowered in any point in the game

[red umbra]

whether or not evaluating raiden at "non-whale" standards should include the possibility of swiping a bit to get c2 isn't something that is necessarily a clear cut proposition

[solar leaf]

But she's consistently at the top at any point in the game

[red umbra]

tbh my take on this is that she's a carry with support abilities that u can only rlly utilize by playing her in the carry role, which means her options for team comps when played as a carry/enabler carry are extremely flexible but her role in the team doesnt change a huge deal

like u cant rlly benefit from raidens support abilities without using her as the carry or enabler carry in ur team, with the exception of raiden eula which imo is a slightly special case

[reef stump]

Definitely agree with that. You dont really get her out of a Carry position, so you have to accoutn for that

Which also connects her dmg and Support. BC her Support means nil if her time on field isn't worth it

That was my primary concern when initially faced with the proposition of an on-field battery. Luckily she has more than enough damage right now

[muted arrow]

is 120% er bad with no albedo

better question, am I forced to run 4 geo in that case

[placid elk]

its ok

i only have 112 or something

itto/geo mc/gorou/diona

gorou uses fav bow

would be more comfy if geo mc used fav as well

[muted arrow]

ic

[primal wing]

I waited so long before deciding to raise a weapon and blackliff is better than whiteblind anyway

[storm tulip]

I sort of disagree with tgis, while you obviously prefer that she is used on a carry position due to how good she works with buffs, you can still just use her as a straight battery doing a couple of hits and swapping early, akin to how you would use another unit batterying like sac bow diona for example and use her as a ToM buffer along with her E

It is more so hard to justify using her to buff someone on a team when she herself would be usually performing a better job otherwise if you built her for damage

It is her strength as a unit that makes a build like this undesirable more so than her actual kit because casting Q to regem 15+ energy for your entire team in a couple of seconds still has a lot of applicable value

The only other u its that can even rival this potential are klee which requires the on field carry role even harder and vemti which is regen for a specific element type only and not necessarily your entire team

[reef stump]

While technically true using Raiden for even 5-6s in total will usually lead to rotation extensions which make evaluating her Support much more difficult as it suddenly becomes a distinctive trade-off situation.
She can probably find some use in that capacity, the value generated that way isn't anything outstanding necessarily.

[storm tulip]

i'm saying even getting 3-4 ult procs has a lot of value

which fits in a lot of comps

that is 4-5 seconds of field time for 3-4 stacks

[reef stump]

+2s Ult Cast

so 6-7s

[storm tulip]

including ult cast and thresholds for the Q ICD

Q hit regens energy although it is worded in a different way and doesnt seem like it would

[reef stump]

would still come back to 5-6s then for 3-4 procs

which will usually translate to 2-3s rot extension

compared to more conventional Supports

I'm not saying it can't be worth it. I'm jsut saying that its not free Support value and thus not necessarily a huge deal over other options once considering rot extensions

[solar leaf]

While her damage is much lower when going support, afaik she still has a fair dps at that role, compared to other batteries like Diona, Electro MC and such, so while she does extend rotations, assuming she has some investement, the total team dps should be fine compared to the other options

[fickle lance]

has anyone tried counting how many beidou procs itto can get?

[red umbra]

9

[red umbra]

Have to remember tho she’s likely not gonna be benefitting from buffs for her damage either tho

Rotation extension is often not that easy to justify

[onyx junco]

when itto's thread becomes raiden's thread

[fickle lance]

ty

[amber cipher]

so what im hearing is

electro traveler is a better battery

[ancient stone]

All TC threads are raiden threads in the end 💀

[solar leaf]

I wanted to ask about this, why do you recommend Ayaka as a must pull?

[ancient stone]

She's frankly the most consistent freeze comp centerpiece, even tho i have a very well built ganyu, i tend to gravitate to ayaka anyways. Its incredibly easy to trigger cyro with her whenever you please, without needing teammates to support you for it. She can also be played as a burst support if you don't need an entire freeze team. She shreds shields like its nobody's business, and even with her high burst cost, she generates a lot of particles to help cover herself fairly decently.

I don't think we'll ever see a main DPS that keeps such a consistent cyro application on targets until we get a catalyst cyro dps

of course, her damage is nothing to scuff at either

[solar leaf]

Doesnt Ganyu do the same, as she has cryo charged shots?

[ancient stone]

Ganyu needs a good shield in order to keep from getting interrupted in a situation where not all the enemies were grouped properly. Also ganyu's charge time is almost exactly the time of a freeze, mobs can sometimes escape freeze if you don't hit it right. This kinda forces her to either rely on an anemo swirl or zhongli shield to consistently get cyro out there

also, ganyu can't use XQ as well as ayaka

heck, ayaka can effectively freeze a target with god damn barbara

[solar leaf]

Fair enough

I'm pondering on which cryo dps to pull for, as I got a Mona and a Venti sitting on the bench waiting for one

I'm inclined to Ayaka, but I'm kinda unsure as I feel they might give freeze the "Venti treatment" aka put enemies in abyss that can't be frozen so people stop abusing it

[red umbra]

Just really high ceiling without having any steep support requirements like Bennett

Consistent and scales well into in game

Even then I’d prob still recommend raiden

Unless u have venti and no kazuha

[charred crag]

36k CAs with everything rolling (c6 gorou included) sound about right? With R5 SS, not the best artis but not bad either, 9/8/9 talents so far

Roughly 97k ushi but I don't doubt that'll break 100k when I T9 it. I somewhat doubt I'll break 40k CAs even if I crown NA+Q together without farming better artis, but it'd be a nice goal yeah? Or higher than that?

[solar leaf]

I do have venti and no kazuha XD I have Mona too. I'm looking into getting a cryo main dps but undecided between ayaka and ganyu

[solar leaf]

Sounds preety good

[red umbra]

Prob ayaka

[unique rover]

Yes it's a really nice goal

C6 gorou

I hate it here

[solar leaf]

You think they won't try to counter freeze comps in the future?

[charred crag]

Took me 230 hoarded wishes since Ayaka banner (and sniping Raiden on a 10 pull with high pity), got c2 itto in the process lol

[unique rover]

NAURRR

Well dedication is dedication

[patent galleon]

i got C6 gorou and still only C0 Itto so ur doing better than me

[red umbra]

They prob will and have done already but Ganyu suffers from freeze nerfs a lot too

Melt isn’t that ideal without kazuha

[charred crag]

I would have been happy with c0-c1, got spooked by an early itto at the end. Lost a 50/50 to c2 keq and was expecting to be relatively high towards whatever next guarantee I wanted (probs a kazoo rerun since I skipped him for Ayaka), but c2 itto is actually very nice, 105ER no problem

[patent galleon]

i got QiQi/Itto/Diluc

ez guarantee for Yae tho

[kind stag]

c1 itto so copium wish I lost the 50/50 🙄

It spooked me 40 in and I didn't even get gorou after 100 pulls

[charred crag]

Oh yeah, yae is a thing... hope there's room between her and kazoo rerun banners lmao, or else decisions to make.

I skipped c1 for my tao for this c6 gorou xD worth imo

[patent galleon]

recent sus leaks say they arent in the same patch anymore, which i hope is true

even with the guarantee for Yae, idk how much ill be able to save for Kaz

and tbh if Yae is an electro on field carry, then ill want Kaz even more just to support her

[charred crag]

Hope she is, my only good book is LP haha.

Watch her just end up being to Lisa what Kokomi is to Barb

[patent galleon]

i have a LP as well from standard pity

inb4 she cant crit 🤡

[charred crag]

Twist, she always crits but has -150% crit dmg

[patent galleon]

would still make LP useless

at least my C6 sara would help

[dapper bramble]

anyone can make the video for this rotation? its weird that i cant make it to the final string

or both of this

[storm tulip]

N3 there is continuing the string

So it is n1, e, n2+n3, sca4, dasg, n4, sca5, e,scaf

Same with n4 on top rotation

You also do n2 cancelled by ushi to cheat a superlative stack onto itto, n2 never hits

Also these are all fucked if ushi gets hit and it is really not optimal to try and fixate on these too much, his combos are adaptive, these are literally only useful on paper

[rigid bay]

Honestly speaking, pretty much. I try to rely on combos that essentially have a stable field time in live testing and by that I mean can be consistent without it being wildly thrown off by external variable (in this case Ushi being hit)

Though I have yet to try that best C1 combo that was suggested, albeit it is merely like, 4% DPS increase over what I'm already doing so it isn't an increase by much, and see if it can be consistently maintained without much effort and focus

Also my chances of getting Gorou C6 is extremely bleak by this point

I've got like probably another 20 pulls left at this point to fire when Itto's banner reaches its end

And I hardly believe I'd get 2 of him in said 20 pulls

Pulled yesterday again for 10, and Xiangling said hello.

That marks the 10th of her for this banner

[sturdy acorn]

https://streamable.com/gy8uwx
https://streamable.com/gii35v
https://streamable.com/lurri7

i personally find these combo super hard too hit though

like everything has to be perfect

and u have to hit those hit lag

i usually just use the 1st combo but instead of N4 in the middle

i use N1-N2 cancel-N3-N4

cut off 1 stack of SCA ensure i can finish the last SCAF

[rigid bay]

Yeah as mentioned, it's best to have a combo that you could consistently do while still having leeway in mind to change mid-combo if something changed or got fucked up

Personally I don't do the E cancels cause it certainly needs you to focus on the animation starting to actually do the E which can be slightly taxing a bit, and may be messed up sometimes

[sturdy acorn]

i can usually do the E cancel just right but the dash after SCAF is where i fuck up the most

and u can't finish these combo without using it

🤧

[rigid bay]

Pretty much yeah

Honestly eventually you'd probably learn the timing all by muscle memory but I just choose to be simple

[sturdy acorn]

hopefully these combo will be much more useful next abyss though

PMA and azada lite is just punching bag

super ez to extend thing

[rigid bay]

For mine specifically, I go by Q > E > SCA5 > N3 > SCA4 > E > SCAF

No movement inputs to be had and the only time I have to be careful is to adjust my combo if Ushi actually got hit somehow, which very rarely happen because my SCAs often stagger enemies which doesn't allow them chance to attack him (albeit apparently even Maguu Kenkis wasn't hitting him at all, which I found odd)

Though I am C1, so my combo differs in that it's pretty much always going to start out the same for opening rotation

[unique rover]

I think c1's have the ability to have consistent rots

[sturdy acorn]

nice i only got C0 so can't say a lot about C1 combo

[unique rover]

Like every rot

While c0s can vary on which rot one is in

[rigid bay]

Yeah, C0 do have a need to play around gaining stacks and the like through NAs so it is understandable

[sturdy acorn]

C1 has the upfront burst though

[rigid bay]

Equally since I got C1 I can't say any combos about C0

[sturdy acorn]

although mathematically C0 may be equal or 3% less dmg than C1 its the burst for the first 5s really matter

i like it really much

[rigid bay]

Though I'd presume your opening rotation always will start with 0 stacks anyway so at least the first rot is gonna be the same

[unique rover]

Yes

1st rot quite consistent

Second rot is...

Idk

[sturdy acorn]

itto skill ceiling is just so great I found sth new while playing him

[rigid bay]

2nd rot: oh fuck idk what my stacks is, execute "random bullshit GO"

[unique rover]

I usually have full stacks on second rot

I'm doing things wrong

[rigid bay]

for a full stack rot, you can literally use a c1's opening rotation
Q > E > SCA5 > N3 > SCA4 > E > SCAF

its not the most optimal but its the one ive had most success with so far

[unique rover]

Yeah

[sturdy acorn]

i have the habbit to just uga bunga when i see the mask flash

[unique rover]

But somehow

My Cas turn to n1-cas

[rigid bay]

just gotta unleash those SCAs at full speed and care about nothing in the world kek

[unique rover]

Bcs I'm too used to n1 e

[sturdy acorn]

just remember to use E to cancel something

[rigid bay]

b r u h

[sturdy acorn]

then u good

dont complicate it too much

[unique rover]

[rigid bay]

yeah overtime you honestly just wanna stick with what has the least amount of focus needed and inputs required

too much and you're playing rythm games

[rigid bay]

in other words;

embrace the unga bunga

my combo while its tight on time (ult ends as soon as SCAF gets out), actually never failed because ushi got hit by an enemy and i gained an extra stack

but more of my E apparently not hitting anyone and thus my SCAF just doesnt exist

[atomic sundial]

i just try to CA as much as possible and remind myself to throw Ushi twice

[slow vapor]

Thoughts?

Not that big of an increase but interesting

[somber sandal]

yea I was wondering about FS

tho WB and other options buff Itto's DMG across the board

which is probably for the better

Ushi nukers

[analog obsidian]

Interesting

[frigid hound]

lmao

I just learned that FS gives poise buff

[somber sandal]

Funny thing I r5'd and ascended FS for funnies

Before itto was even a thing

FS diluc

[reef stump]

At C0 around half of Itto's dmg comes form his CAs. So getting minimally more CA dmg over WB, which already isn't a super amazing weapon due to the DEF conversion snapshot, while the other half of your dmg gets completely destroyed is not a good idea

[red umbra]

Level 40 weapon ?

That what 40/40 me confused

[slow vapor]

Yea

[whole juniper]

Can someone explain the point of Ushi cancelling the second swing to me? Are you supposed to wait for the damage then cancel the endlag, or what? Or do you mean it's actually more dps to skip the second swing's animation AND damage completely?

[reef stump]

You skip the second swing so you get to do the fourth over just up to the third getting you 5 Stacks for a SCA5 combo

If you do E full N4 you overcap Stacks and fit less meaningful stuff in your Q window

[whole juniper]

But, is it a dps increase? The normal attacks also deal pretty good damage

[reef stump]

If you do E Full N4 you lose out later on bc you can't fit a second full N4 SCA5 E after that anymore

Either you do Q N1 E N3 SCA4 N4 SCA5 E SCAF
or Q N1 E/N2 N4 SCA5 N4 SCA5 E

[whole juniper]

Ty. Tbh this all feels a bit academical to me atm since there have been very few (no?) things I've fought that have both stood still and had enough hp to survive until the end of my combo :p I need to get my second abyss team in shape so I can get to floor 11 and 12 I guess...

[reef stump]

Rotations and combos will always differ based on real circumstances. But can ahrdly optimize for every single scenario

[whole juniper]

Nah I understand that. I just mean I haven't actually experienced "oh my ult ran out before I could throw Ushi again" yet. But I understand that it's theoretically a dps loss to not do the cancel now, cheers

[tiny flint]

Ouch so C1 isn't a good dps increase, figured first time I get lucky and win the 50/50 goes like this

[whole juniper]

Must be nice QoL tho?

[tiny flint]

Ya that much is true, Unga Bunga is fun

[whole juniper]

Btw, as someone who owns neither Albedo nor ZL, in my opinion Itto/(Ning or Geo MC)/Gorou/Diona works wonders. I have no energy problems with 140% ER on Itto, Favonius on Gorou and Sacrifical on Diona, and Diona's shield + crystallize is plenty of protection for SS stacks. Ning can either just throw her E once to battery just like any geo in that slot, or if I want to finish a last enemy without wasting Itto ult I can do her full burst.

I was a bit worried when everybody said he "needed" either ZL or Albedo and every suggested comp had one of them, but I feel perfectly fine tbh

[misty junco]

I may be crazy

But hear me out

Prototype amber ning

[whole juniper]

I was actually considering that, but I haven't invested in one yet and I'm fine RN anyway. Honestly I might want it just for Corrosion damage tho >_>

I have Memory of Dust on her atm so I'm loathe to take the massive hit to attack switching would mean but it'd probably be nice

[charred crag]

I'm actually a little nonplussed by that first impressions doc. No idea why they didn't even think to consider mono geo, especially in the current abyss lineup and plenty of other situations

[whole juniper]

Yeah if I had both geo bros I'd run mono geo for sure, with flexing in a shield breaker when needed

[charred crag]

My c2 itto needs 105 ER or less, not 120. No idea about that C1 "optimal combo" either since it involves casting your first weak ushi before you have Q up

[whole juniper]

That doc is the reason I'm typing the Diona thing too - it makes it look like the only two valid options are teams with Albedo, or teams with ZL, while I'm doing just fine without either

[charred crag]

They even want you to N1 before SCA at c1 even after having precasted an ushi

I'll try it out but it sounds dumb considering ushi hits like a truck/~is worth around 3 SCA hits when buffed

~100k vs ~36k

Though maybe they did their TC with redhorn on, which would skew it more towards CAs while SS also buffs ushi equally

[whole juniper]

Potentially even more than equally if I understand how SS works correctly? Since Ushi right after Q will always get 5 stack buff while the following attacks might get less if you get damaged

Not that you should lose SS stacks ideally but still

[charred crag]

Zhong shield with 3k def lol. I've only ever seen it break from triple kenki with no dodging.

[whole juniper]

Lol yeah if you have ZL it's a non-issue

I'll probably save up for his rerun tbh, he seems so comfy

[turbid dagger]

Yeah, I was on the fence, but Zhongli's cool, and he's such a universally useful character.

[turbid dagger]

Wait, 3k def???

[patent galleon]

he means on Itto

shields take into account the active characters Def

[charred crag]

Yeah

[grizzled kestrel]

What is the N1 here for actually ? It doesn't give stack, doesn't do damage, just delays your burst a little bit

Also at the end of the doc, saying going from C5 to C6 is like going from R1 SS to R1 RS seems wrong with their own numbers
C5 to C6 is labelled as a 26.52% increase but R1 SS (25123 dps) to R1 RS (28613 dps) is merely a 14% increase

[charred crag]

N1 does give a stack

[grizzled kestrel]

Before burst no ?

[charred crag]

While Q is active, n1 and n3 do. In the notation it's after Q

[grizzled kestrel]

Ok I thought you were talking about this combo

[charred crag]

Yeah not sure about that one, seems dumb.

Not to mention how much time you're wasting on gorou uptime before you Q

Def to atk conversion snapshots, but c6 doesn't, nor does the 15% geo dmg, nor does Itto's A4 talent that converts def to extra CA dmg

[grizzled kestrel]

Yeah any shenanigans you do between Gorou burst and Itto burst grief you a lot

Also I've seen a lot of people to Gorou Q > E -> Itto Q
Does that do anything ? Gorou's A4 and C6 are 12s buffs after Q and not refreshed by E right ?

[real phoenix]

the combos were calced with gorous dynamic buff time

[frosty ferry]

that one is just us testing out a bunch

dont recommend it

the ones color coded are the ones recommended

[red umbra]

re this section, the implication here is that if ushi gets hit you end up doing an extra SCA so wont be able to complete the final SCAF right?

[real phoenix]

yes

wait let me test something

[red umbra]

bet makes sense

[real phoenix]

yeah you can't fit it

[red umbra]

is there any particular reason for n1 E n3 then n4 as opposed to n1 E n3 n4 followed by n3?

or is it just the same shit

[real phoenix]

so Q N1 N2/E N4 SCA5D N3 SCA4D E SCAF?

[red umbra]

uhh ya

[rapid mulch]

holy coooow, the skyward pride is 110%?

[red umbra]

cancelling n2 then going to n3 and n4

right

[charred crag]

If you're getting all the ER you sneed from the weapon and replace the arti subs with equivalent offensive rolls, makes sense. He actually uses the vacuum blades from the passive and does so with 4k+ atk, so the dmg will be... Not nonexistent. If itto is C2 and needs significantly less ER than what skypride gives, I'd imagine it gets devalued.

[rapid mulch]

indeed, I'm at c0, and have a skyward from a weapon banner fail

but still, better then whiteblind r5 is wild

[reef stump]

Whiteblind isn't actually that great since you realistically never get 4 Stacks for his Burst

[charred crag]

It's got a lot higher base atk, 8% dmg on the passive, and you don't generally stack whiteblind up past 1-ish before snapshotting

[rapid mulch]

yea, 1 or 2

is ushi oven not gorou bis for the flex slot?

[charred crag]

I wouldn't be quick to call anything bis just going off of "initial impressions"

[rapid mulch]

true, but it's interesting that this first impressions document recommend geo mc and ning over gorou for that slot

[charred crag]

I'm wondering why itto/zhong/gorou/albedo wasn't included tbh, beyond maybe the assumption that it's uncommon to have all 4?

[real phoenix]

the combo works, but it'll probably be ≤ the combo on the paper/sheet (raikh's) which is Q N1 N2/E N4 SCA5D N4 SCA5 E

[red umbra]

fair

[real phoenix]

probably less than

[rapid mulch]

true, I suppose a lot of people only have 1 other geo 5*

[real phoenix]

because you leave the SCAF all the way at the end which probably runs out of gorou buff

[red umbra]

Ushi E also would hv that problem at the end tho right?

tho i suppose the delay isn't as long as the SCA

[charred crag]

There's always room for 2 ushi's in a Q window, and he out damages an SCAF significantly

[rapid mulch]

you can interrupt a sca for ushi and prob still get the scaf in still

is the first impressions damage the single target team damage per rotation, or itto only?

[placid elk]

how come lvling itto's Q is the same priority as his AA? isnt it basically just adding atk% on him?

[rapid mulch]

stats good

[placid elk]

since i gotta choose between lv10 normal atk or lv9 burst

[real phoenix]

cancelling SCAs with Ushi is a huge time sink

[rapid mulch]

if all equal in power increase, lower cost is prob better?

[rapid mulch]

it does feel a bit long

[real phoenix]

what makes it long is that Itto needs to do his 19 frame teleport dash thing at the beginnig of every SCA string, and the SCA ATK SPD ramp up restarts when you cancel with some stacks left

only SCA worth cancelling is the endlag of SCAF

[storm tulip]

depends if it affects deadframes or relevant ones, if it takes advantage of endlag being outside of Q duration instead of inside it it is worth it if your ushi wouldnt be up beginning of next rotation otherwise, it is situational, but can be worth

[charred crag]

https://streamable.com/9cji01 this seems pretty much all I could fit, maybe one more NA/SCA possible but I definitely don't think casting ushi before Q is going to be beneficial

[real phoenix]

Q E SCA6D N2 SCA4 E SCAF

which is less than the lowest C1 combo we've tested

[charred crag]

Where is the rest of the testing being done/shown?

Is it with videos or just simmed/spreadsheet?

[real phoenix]

with videos

[real phoenix]

the reason you couldn't fit more was because you got hit with cryo

cryo slows you down

[charred crag]

Yeah thats why I assume n3/sca5 will probably fit

[spark aurora]

test it out against primovishap

[real phoenix]

C1 combo, lowest but easiest one was Q E SCA6D N4 SCA5 E SCAF

[charred crag]

Jeez even an n4?

[real phoenix]

yessir lmao

C1 footage is with Atilla

i have all the C0 combos on video

[charred crag]

Not that anything is seeming to live through even what I'm doing unless 80% of it is done against an invuln window xD but good to know

[real phoenix]

we each spent ~6 hours with our respective constellation Itto testing/drafting combos

[charred crag]

I'd like to see the videos showing precasting E being more tbh

They hosted in a channel here?

[real phoenix]

i'll go fetch one

[charred crag]

Oh the "better" in my title btw is cuz the last vid I recorded Magoo dashed away before I could finish, not claiming it's better than anything here

[real phoenix]

https://streamable.com/p6loa3

this is Atilla's Itto/gameplay

[charred crag]

Hm, not counting for gorou, and with absolute max (that isn't against a shield churl) hitlag from the looks of it. Dunno if practical but it fit xD

[real phoenix]

ruin guard hitlag i feel is up there, but idk for sure

[rapid mulch]

are the wfp first impressions newer combos then the itto faq data? or very diffirent assumptions?

[real phoenix]

the itto faq was pre-release

[rapid mulch]

ah sounds good

the stats for faq prob don't account for the awkwardness of WB and spine yet then

[charred crag]

Is that combo actually calced assuming the damage difference between 2 SCAs + N1 - the difference of a buffed ushi?

[real phoenix]

yeah, the combos are calced with the quirks that you'd think they'd have

[charred crag]

It fits more in the burst window, just... suspicious if it's better numerically (or by a meaningful amount), and nothing is going to sit still (or live) long enough for me to test the difference myself with actual gear on and gorou buff uptime haha.

[real phoenix]

they are calced with gorou's buff uptime/other dynamics like WB stacks

[charred crag]

Other question I guess is why mono geo is being left out of prelims?

Outside of lector/herald shields I think it's one of the best options for itto to run zhong/albedo/gorou together

[analog obsidian]

Anyone knows what's the highest SCA string c6 itto combo yet

Most I've seen is 41

[somber sandal]

should do some trial and error to figure out good combo to do when cryo aura

atk spd loss is a bitch

[rigid bay]

cant get cryo aura if the cryo enemy dies before they could

[somber sandal]

[near condor]

What Itto team to use without Albedo or Zhongli? Ning is c3

[analog obsidian]

No gorou?

[near condor]

C0 gorou

[analog obsidian]

If Ning gotta be in there then itto,gorou,Ning,flex/gmc

Or itto,gorou,GMC flex

[near condor]

Who’s better? GMC or Ning?

So 3 geo flex?

[analog obsidian]

Really depends,gmc got extra crate and wall so enemy stuck
Ning can use ttds and jade screen buff

[near condor]

Alright, and then the flex is usually Bennett or Diona?

Barbara isn’t really there because she doesn’t help create particles I think

[analog obsidian]

Yea

[near condor]

Thank you

[charred crag]

https://streamable.com/npex8f vishap is just tanky/geo resistant enough lol, that combo works fine 👍 don't think I'm going to try for better than that unless there's a supremely beefy abyss 12 boss to get through haha.

[solar leaf]

Yo. Any news on Itto team dmg calcs?

[dapper bramble]

#858129087376523274

btw anyone has jean c2. why i feels like the 15% atk spd doesnt give me more advantage in combo string.

[patent galleon]

the game has a sort of soft cap on attack speed

iirc its around 65% where it starts to have diminishing returns

[primal wing]

Also doesn't attack speed only affect NA unless otherwise stated?

[charred crag]

Atk speed also has a counterintuitive thing going on with hitlag that reduces it's benefit/the only chars that get the full benefit of atk speed buffs are the ones that don't get hitlag.

I just got kind of condescended right off of KQM TC chat for suggesting that itto has significantly higher damage than Noelle. Didn't call him better, just stronger.
My Noelle gets ~30-44k NAs with wearing the same R5 SS, same teammates, stealing Itto's artis instead of her usual 4glad(which capped around 40k n4), vs... ~100k ushi, 36k SCAs and ~70k SCAFs while the same buffs are up for both chars. Both 90/90 with T9 NA/9(12 Noelle) Qs.

People really thinking they have similar damage or something?

[patent galleon]

their kits are extremely similar, so its not unusual that people would try to compare them. Noelle also benefits from all of the same things that Itto has going for him (arti's, gorou and redhorn). but Itto clearly outputs his damage much much faster than noelle.

[grizzled kestrel]

They say Noelle damage is the same as Itto ?
That just can't be true unless you give Noelle target number advantage

[zinc tusk]

they need to cut back on that copium

[storm tulip]

It is not even much faster, it is just a lot more damage per rotation, he has around/over 1.5x the damage noelle outputs in a rotation, it is a huge difference

Noelle can compete, IF she has target advantage and I think itto has proven himself enough for that to not really be the case

His AoE is way better than what it initially seemed and in this abyss 12 at the very least he can always hit every enemy easily

Also for mobbing stages he has a big benefit noelle doesnt:

He can hit shit in venti ult

[charred crag]

I just have to wait for the almighty MS Excell spreadsheet result cells to prove the obvious before I'm allowed to state it, I guess.

I still love both of them and vastly preferred Noelle being able to unga bunga through corrosion while keeping the party at 100% HP this abyss, though itto is more fun to brawl with

It could also be that itto scales a lot harder with investment than Noelle does and KQM's relatively low spreadsheet standard assumptions about stacks/refinements/uptimes/substats bring them closer than what my gear leads me to experience.

[unique rover]

Also itto hits dvalin on the ground and can most likely hit Wolford when it's flying

Gotta test the latter though

[analog obsidian]

Itto got outrageous hitboxes

[half ivy]

take the noelle calcs w a grain of salt cuz i only have c5 noelle, so im extrapolating c6 damage from the wiki

[unique rover]

Why does c fin of itto look low

[half ivy]

c fin?

[unique rover]

Charged attack finisher

Input says 231.7

Should be 377.4

[half ivy]

omg ur right

i accidentally put in n4 value for the cfin

i shall edit this

[unique rover]

N1 supposed to be. 62

Or are they getting automatically rounded

Or is that what wiki says

I usually base on honey

[half ivy]

im using the game values for itto

[unique rover]

Hmmm I see

[half ivy]

is noelles combo correct?

[unique rover]

I thought 5N3 is Noelle's combo

[half ivy]

i figured eq 4 n4 would be the best single target

[unique rover]

I don't main Noelle so I have no idea

[half ivy]

niether do i

i know n3 is better for aoe

but n4 is better for st

just dk how many she can do in an ult

i watched a video and saw 4 so thats what i put in

[charred crag]

[half ivy]

also itto gets a bigger dmg increase from gorou than noelle, so he definitely does more damage overall. This is of course at the trade off of noelle's healing self sufficiency, and providing her own shield

[charred crag]

Thanks for a spreadsheet that states the obvious haha

Now I'm allowed to state the obvious

[half ivy]

well even if its obvious i think its fair to back up our statements w maths ahahaha

[unique rover]

It's the obvious but ppls qualms won't be stopped wtvr one can do

[onyx junco]

E is kinda low level on itto 👀

[charred crag]

I don't wanna get off my couch and phone and boot up my PC and copy/paste a bunch of stats from honey impact into Excel and do a simple formula not cut out to talk to non-player TCs

[half ivy]

It would be even less fair to noelle, her e does garbage dmg, so itto would outstrip her further lol

[charred crag]

So thanks

[unique rover]

They were comparing same level talents

And Noelle gets 3 levels higher on e and q because c3 and c5

[onyx junco]

yeah i already saw, i had a brainfart, just woke up lol

[unique rover]

Morning

[charred crag]

Yeah, just saying if they were both T9(12) Es the difference would be more severe haha

[unique rover]

True though

[half ivy]

Yea I wanted to give noelle the advantage

[charred crag]

I get my first crown on itto tomorrow, feelsgood

[half ivy]

Ittos ur first 5 star then?

[unique rover]

Eh

[charred crag]

Nah lmao, I mean I get the mats I need to do the first of 3 crowns on him

[half ivy]

Ohhh damn I stoopit I thought u meant got the actual crown lmao

[charred crag]

Already decided he's joining the triple crown club with hutao, just too fun and aggressively unga bunga

So officially more invested than my Noelle

[storm tulip]

Not at max height, but he can

[dapper bramble]

what u guys think about this
https://streamable.com/lkouhn

c0. with n2/e

from ittomains. they are saying this is better than sitri one.

sca6

[unique rover]

That depends on if u get stack from ushi during your sca chain or not

What's the reference?

Where's*

[little quiver]

Oh god their naming for the NA combos make no sense, reads like they are doing 14 NA
That's not what everyone adopted here, is it?
I know he doesn't reset combos but that is hard to read and makes it longer

[unique rover]

Which one

[little quiver]

We'd write it as N1 E N2 SCA... For example and not which hit in the sequence it is
I'm guessing that timer is really really tight there is a really quick dodge after the 1st SCA6 right after the final slash

[spark aurora]

usually going n3 means doing 3 normals

n2 doing 2 normals, etc

there's gotta be a different naming system for itto

since that up there is supposed to mean n1, then cancel n2 with ushi, and continue the combo (the vid)

[dapper bramble]

i see, the differences between that and emili one is counting ushi getting hit and 3 NA after first SCA string, so you can reliably E+SCAF at the end.

i think its pretty realistic.

dont know about the dps tho.

[real phoenix]

yeah, we use N1 N2/E N4

[tacit panther]

what are his best teams

[frosty ferry]

Bro we have this combo lol

Its just different naming and they assume one more stack from ushi

Thats it

[dapper bramble]

https://streamable.com/gii35v

this one?

[frosty ferry]

Yeah

[dapper bramble]

but they use N3 instead of n4 after the first SCA string.

[frosty ferry]

You trade 1 SCA + 1 NA for an extra SCAf

I can calc it out later to see of its worth

[dapper bramble]

but the N3 didnt waste 1 stack from ushi leaving the field.

[dapper bramble]

this one waste one stack after ushi leaving the field.

yeah need dps count for both.

[frosty ferry]

I dont recommend this combo in the first place

For general player base

Im gonna recommend at most 2 combos at c0, 1 at c1

Then stop

[dapper bramble]

i see

[frosty ferry]

Im not against finding new combos, but assuming the playerbase gonna learn 20 combos to gain 200 more dps

Is overkill

[dapper bramble]

they're just nitpicking it at ittomains. haha

[frosty ferry]

I dont have an issue with them finding combos, its good dedicated mains push a character limits

[real phoenix]

the raikh combo can literally be tuned to be Q N1 N2/E N4 SCA5 N3 SCA4 E SCAF i’m pretty sure so,, it’s only really just an extra stack from ushi getting hit

[frosty ferry]

But gatekeeping it and show elitist behaviour thinking people not knowing or dont care about 25 combos that increase your dps by 3% is equivalent of them not capable of doing good quality calcs and come up with good conclusion is asinine

[patent galleon]

all these combos make my brain hurt, itto was supposed to be the embodiment of unga bunga.

[real phoenix]

you can still just unga bunga tbh, at most you lose like 8% if you go out of your way to do the shitass combo at the bottom

[frosty ferry]

I know some fkn dank eula combos that let you get 15 stacks assuming you play fkn perfect and in specific conditions, doesnt mean Im gonna throw that at ppl to prove ik a lot more than them

[real phoenix]

hit me with it

[dapper bramble]

oh raikh combo is just the same then.

[frosty ferry]

he is both tbh

guy has a lot of different combos, but the damage increase is pretty miniscule that you are more likely losing DPS from just dodging/bad ping/chasing enemies/misplay

[ancient pecan]

imo giving some general guidelines like "only do SCA when you have at least 4 stacks" is good enough for starter advice, you can start learning specific combos later

[frosty ferry]

before your combo actually matters

[frosty ferry]

I just tell people N3 if you E then spam CA, if you dont E, N4 them spam CA, also try to fit N1 E when you can to animation cancel

thats it

thats like

80% of how to play him

an anology I like to bring up is Riven in League of Legends

Riven has an insane amounts of "oneshot"/all in combos that has so many fkn buttons

E R Flash auto tiamat W Q Auto Q R2
E R Flash Q3 tiamat W auto R2 Q
E R Flash W auto tiamat R2 Q

and a bunch more

knowing all of these is cool and all, I learn them

doesnt mean in the middle of a solo q game, when you just want to kill your opponents that it matter that much, as long as they are dead

you learn 1 or at most 2 oneshot combos

and then go learn other fundamentals

same shit applies with itto

[real phoenix]

80/20 rule

[frosty ferry]

Again, just iterating that Im NOT against combo findings, Im glad Itto mains is passionate about him to push his boundaries, its a good thing to have. We did a bunch as well. But saying that because we dont share and recommend all combos that means our calcs or conclusion is shit without adequate evidence backing it up is straight dumb, sorry if Im coarse on the matter.

[dapper bramble]

[somber sandal]

Speaking of ping, or just lag in general

Co-op sometimes eats my CA inputs

And stranger still

Even with more than one stack

I get SCAF

I've never experienced that with anyone else

Granted only other carries I use is Diluc and Ayaka

So idk if this happens with other units

[humble rose]

[somber sandal]

So interesting find of a bug that I ran into yesterday but couldn't figure out why it happened until now so I can get it consistently
If you cancel SCA during the dash, and then E, Itto by himself somehow replays the SCA until you run outta stacks

zero clue why this is

and afaik it does not act this way with his other attacks

also no clue if this exploit can be used for nefarious gains

I wonder if Ushi has some internal spaghetti code that allows this to happen
somehow checking if a SCA was inputted but failed to execute

Big knockback puts you in hitstun too long so not like that'll be of much help

okay I was able to get this bug off when attacked by Kairagi's Spin Attack (was pyro infused)

It seems to be very specific attacks that trigger this bug

more testing required

[real phoenix]

i got it to work once

@somber sandal

twice

[somber sandal]

[real phoenix]

it's super sweaty

i'm getting more consistent

[somber sandal]

also should note

sometimes when you tried to toss Ushi after the dash cancel

you can't (E does not registry on the game or server's end) for a bit

[real phoenix]

i can do it consistently now

[somber sandal]

[real phoenix]

i don't really see a use for it tho since it takes up quite a bit of time

[somber sandal]

yea

[storm tulip]

considering ushi can generate energy from hitting enemy corpses (enemy mid dying animation, ushi deals no damage) there is very likely some spaghetti code in the ability, not necessarily on that though

[analog obsidian]

https://youtu.be/9rQG34iYrto

[half ivy]

Some lousy Xiao v Itto calcs, with BEEEEG assumptions

[sturdy acorn]

Real abyss shows that itto has upper hand though

And its not insignificant one

[half ivy]

The current abyss heavily favours itto tho with the CA buff

[sturdy acorn]

Yeah

But itto sp is way better than xiao

And not taking bennet is a huge plus

I haven’t got my hand on jean c4 but xiao c0 just cant compete at all

Its gonna be a rough path for xiao mains till new sp or new artifact (preferably both) comes out

[half ivy]

xiao does have some advantages though; xiao teams are more flexible, and the teammates he uses are usually gonna be more damage. jean can be a healer, battery and subdps for xiao whereas itto doesnt have a unit like that (other than gorou c4 which is hard to get). Furthermore, xiao can run double pyro instead of double geo with someone like thoma bennett, altho im unsure of how much damage this would do compared to double geo. Lastly, if an account doesn t have albedo (like me), itto loses more damage from albedo's abscence than xiao does

basically i think its pretty difficult to say that one of them is strictly better than the other, and ill be honest i dont think xiao is going to get a dedicated artifact set. his number seemed to have been balanced around him having glad and vv as his BiS, since he does good damage even w those

[ancient stone]

im pretty curious to how this bug looks like

[real phoenix]

[ancient stone]

[solar leaf]

How are Xiaos teammates more dmg when they literally use the same sub dps, Albedo, but on one team he's buffed by Gorou and on the other he isn't?

[granite trail]

won't having elemental skill standardized between the two to a low level skew things against Itto since his cow hits like a truck during ult

[muted arrow]

xiao and itto are similarly flexible

xiao can use like 3 sub dps in total in the whole roster

needs a battery just like itto

he requires a shielder too most of the time

[half ivy]

This is just based on my itto lol, but yes it would push itto more in front

[half ivy]

True. Its a slight double edged sword, cuz albedo is a relatively less popular limited 5 star, so I suspect there's quite a few xiao and itto havers out there who don't have him, in which case itto loses slightly more damage from his loss. But yea I guess I was giving xiao too much credibility in terms of team flexibility, he is p hard pressed too

[arctic pilot]

well if i be honest

its not because xiao teams are more flexible than itto

its just he doesnt really synergise with anyone so whatever you put there other than ZL wont really be that significant for him

Jean C4 comes with circle impact con and buffs like only 6 plunge bennett same issues he only had albedo as his sub dps choice to cover his entire burst and now he is stolen by itto and he does better job there

[half ivy]

I'm actually wondering if xiao Jean albedo zl is more overall dps than itto gorou albedo diona. I suspect the itto team is a bit better, but I don't have maths to back this up

[arctic pilot]

why diona tho

when xiao team is 4 5*

[half ivy]

Hmmm actually I guess Jean might me better than diona but diona is good cuz she heals and generates v good particles

And she shields

[arctic pilot]

fair point i meant the team comparasion

[half ivy]

Cux I think replacing diona would make the team worse

[arctic pilot]

i would put ZL or Bennett to itto team 4th slot since Xiao team is fully stacked with 5* chars lol

[half ivy]

Ahhh I think zl is a bad choice mainly cux corrosion abyss means healing is necessary

And I don't wanna put Bennett in either spot

[arctic pilot]

not for me i can live without healers

but fair

and yea xiao bennett is kinda scuffed if you wanna maintain geo reso

[half ivy]

Zhongli js demo better for dps but I personally value the healing way more than his shred

[arctic pilot]

can work with high investment xiaos for 2 burst rotation but after that it becomes a trainwreck without 140+ ER on Xiao

[charred crag]

Does c0* itto actually need a battery? Mine was c2 before I started using him so idk, mine definitely doesn't/just passive particle gain through mono geo is more than enough at 105 ER

[half ivy]

C2 is big help but itto needs a very small amount of batterying

It's not much tho

Mine runs at 130er and I don't even have albedo

[charred crag]

Ic

Just got my first crown on itto, up to 39k CAs and 76k finishers, wew. Wondering if crowning Q can bring that up to my arbitrary goal of 40k

It'll only give him about 180 more atk at his current def, but maybe enough.

[onyx junco]

just with gorou?

[charred crag]

C6 gorou and zhong shield shred

[half ivy]

Damn thats stronk

[charred crag]

My artis aren't actually that great, just 170 CV or so.

And r5 SS. I expect redhorn Itto's can hit a lot harder, especially with luckier arti rolls

I'll probably be satisfied with 40k and >100k ushi though, nice round numbers xD

[onyx junco]

mine is tripple crowned with redhorn, i hit 44k CAs with c6 gorou and around 54k if i bring bennett too

[charred crag]

Wew I expected higher with redhorn, maybe your artis are more mediocre still

I thought it was skewed a bit more towards higher CA dmg with the passive/lower ushi

[spark aurora]

r5 ss and r1 redhorn isnt that big of a difference

[onyx junco]

maybe, im lacking def subs imo, but r1 redhorn and ss r5 are not really far apart

[patent galleon]

one thing people dont seem to understand about Xiao is that a dedicated artifact set would do practically nothing for him unless it provides a large amount of anemo shred or preferably Def shred. which is highly unlikely IMO, unless they made it very conditional to effect plunge attacks only or something.

but an artifact set that further buffed anemo dmg/attack/or plunge dmg would mean nothing for Xiao due to his already oversaturated stats.

i mean hell look at Shimenawa. ignoring the consistency issues, the +50% plunge dmg modifier is only about a 3-5% increase in dmg over the usual 2pc/2pc.

Best thing they could do for Xiao is make a dedicated anemo support for him that covers his needs, like a battery/healer/buffer all in one.

so basically a C4 Jean but at a more affordable level

[solar leaf]

Well, that's a biased comparison. "I want to compare Xiaos best team to Itto with a bad healer cause I don't want the best healer there"

And you're saying Gorou c4 is hard to get, when he's rate up on Ittos own banner, but you say Xiao can have Jean, who you'd have to lose a 50/50 to have a 1/5 chance to get, besides the standard banner rng

Then you say Itto has a bigger downside by losing albedo than Xiao, which is true, but that's after the fact that you posted a sheet saying Itto has more dmg than Xiao WITHOUT albedo in the mix, so Itto is still ahead regardless

The calcs you provided didn't take Gorou in account, who again, on average provides more team dps than either Sucrose or Jean, bar some fall dmg shinnenigans, skewing things even more

[analog obsidian]

https://tenor.com/view/ushi-itto-genshin-itto-ushi-arataki-itto-gif-24150992

[half ivy]

I'm not comparing teams in my calculations, I just factor geo resonance and zl shield, thats it. It definitely seems that itto is probably stronger, which I why I mentioned that in the sheet too. However my main purpose is that I wanted to actually test the common assumption that one of them is better than the other, and my opinion is that they are probably close enough that it's very difficult to tell

My calcs are not a realistic representation of damage, so I don't want to make a sweeping statement like itto is just flat out better, since I don't have evidence to show that

[storm tulip]

Here you go then: itto is flat out better

Itto groups up enemies with a taunt (xiao plunges split them up), is a tanky dps (xiao slowly kills himself), actively generates energy during Q (xiao cannot), takes less field time to do his damage, has more synergistic support options with better energy requirements for teammates, has stronger subdps damage, has way higher target burst potential (something xiao suffers heavily from)

[patent galleon]

dont forget a useful resonance

[storm tulip]

Xiao's realistic only benefit in comparison is slightly larger AoE

And then you can consider that for the heavy mobbing floors, itto can use venti while xiao cant really use him to good effect

[storm tulip]

I did, thank you for that

[patent galleon]

what even is anemo resonance again? movement speed i think?

[analog obsidian]

More sped

And less cd I think

[storm tulip]

5% cd, stamina consumption reduced by 15% and 10% ms

[analog obsidian]

Yea

[storm tulip]

The stamina consumption gets ignored a lot but that is actually its highest impact in combat, thing is the only characters that care about stamina from the top of my head are c0 hu tao, keqing and c6 xinyan and well c0 yanfei

From these the only one I can see using anemo resonance is like mono pyro yanfei with jean/kazuha/bennet

And once she is c1 she wouldnt care about it

[patent galleon]

if the CD reduction was greater i could see that being useful, but 5% is next to nothing tbh

[storm tulip]

Yeah, but I'm fine with it being an exploration resonance, it makes sense

[patent galleon]

idk tbh id like to see alot of the resonances changed to be more beneficial to the element itself

Geo and pyro are fine obviously

but Anemo/electro/hydro dont really make sense

[storm tulip]

I think anemo is honestly fine, electro just needs cooldown reduced on the particle gen and then hydro needs to do something else entirely

Electro resonance being changed to a clear particle would also be very cool

[muted arrow]

geo mc has been putting a lot of work for me

as an albedo replacement

in my experience I value itto above both hu tao c0 and xiao in practice

[atomic sundial]

feels irrelevant but probably I want to say that Itto has a craftable 4* weapon option while Xiao doesn't even have a gacha one

that's a very practical thing tho

[steep marsh]

nah, thats very relevant

[charred crag]

I think xiao is slightly better

specifically against abyss lector/herald

Xiao can probably kill azdaha faster too, and definitely geo hypostasis

Dunno about vishaps tbh, which is a funny thing

[storm tulip]

i actually doubt both of those still, itto can still dish out some pretty amazing infused damage

[charred crag]

Swirl is just slightly better than geo at draining shields lol

[storm tulip]

like 38k SCAs with itto/zhong/kazuha/bennet and I dont have a decent bollide set so i'm using 4pc petra on itto, otherwise zhong could be on petra and itto on bollide

for pyro build

r5 spine c1 itto

[charred crag]

I don't know why that's so funny, but that's pretty funny

Too bad I skipped kazoo

38k sounds... just a little sus though NGL, I guess kazoo is one of those 1K EM builds and is doing a lot of work?

Just because I'm getting 39k with 4.4k atk/40% geo shred, and I'm having a hard time seeing what, ~2-2.5k atk with Benny? Matching that with the same amount of shred.

[storm tulip]

it is 1k kazuha (800+200 from c2), c6 mist bennet (t12), and zhong on ToM, benny on noblesse

[charred crag]

Itto atk sands I assume?

[storm tulip]

yes obviously atk/pyro/crit

with 4pc petra as i said

[charred crag]

Sounds derpy, wish I had a kazoo. Only back up to ~20 wishes since I spent my hoard on c6 gorou lol, hope I have some time before kazoo rerun

As far as joke teams go it sounds better than pyrokeq xD

[storm tulip]

also dont forget that benny c6 does give you 15% pyro dmg too

it is 65% more damage bonus (up to 105% if I had a good bollide set), 20% extra shred (40% from VV+20% from zhong vs 20+20 for geo) but less atk, that is why it can still get very close

[charred crag]

Only 65? Sounds low

1k kazoo is ~40 bonus right? +35 AP + 15 c6 Benny

I guess if you subtract c6 Benny to compare the 15% from gorou, just 75

Oh, and I guess if you subtract 24% yet again from 4HooD(since 2AP doesn't matter for pyritto), it's less than 65? Missing anything?

[storm tulip]

i forgot the 15 from gorou in comparison, so yeah 50 extra

techically 51

[muted arrow]

but kazuha doesn't buff itto

[patent galleon]

With C6 Bennett he can

Tbh against large enemies I can see Xiao catching up abit simply because of collision plunge, which helps his ST dmg a lot. But I think ideally Itto would still pull ahead.

[primal wing]

Since Itto's talents scale so well with levels, what would you consider the "minimum" level for each of them?

[patent galleon]

9

[somber sandal]

ideally 9 across the board
if ofc you can't spare the mats right away and have to cut corners, you can leave ushi at 8

[frigid hound]

Wheres the PP and rev melt itto calcs

[dapper bramble]

whats the combo analysis from chinese community? according to tenten video. anyone know?
https://youtu.be/YjsgfGq7Z38?t=426

[charred crag]

https://streamable.com/r64nrg
Crowned Q, hit my arbitrary goal of 40k CAs, roughly 80k finisher and >100k ushi xD still have to crown my cow but it already does more damage than a giant meteor lol

[brave crow]

can i see your build

[muted arrow]

tenten puts every dps in 3/5 tier

at some point he had ayaka in the same tier as diluc

[patent galleon]

after like 6k resin this is the first and only 5* Def sands ive gotten

that being said ive finally been able to migrate from 4pc Bolide to 4pc Husk now because of it

worse crit stats than what i had with bolide (81/194) but my damage is still higher regardless.

[brave crow]

nice build

[sturdy acorn]

This is with bennet right

[patent galleon]

yeah Bennett

[brave crow]

i can't even get 2k def

[patent galleon]

Bennett and gorou

https://streamable.com/88mxay

[quartz cypress]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dDhgkwdNnqAZeZ4nwYEcAcU5jSzf0JreTfE3WL70o5U/edit?usp=sharing

[nimble monolith]

I think the video references in that sheet are broken? It fails to load the video for me

It says internal server error something

[quartz cypress]

@willow tusk ^

[willow tusk]

imgur is down, can't do anything.

I triple checked all the links, they work when imgur isn't down.

[analog obsidian]

[ancient stone]

what refinement on that SS?

[patent galleon]

R5

[dense ocean]

Thanks for this gsheet

[steep marsh]

I will make an Oni out of you

[analog obsidian]

Time to learn daashu in 350 ping 20 FPS condition let's fucking gooo

[storm tulip]

just want to leave this here, saw tony's video of c6 r5 xiao clearing kenki and just wanted to show my c1 r5 serpent spine itto doing it just as fast

[onyx junco]

the fastest xiao run i've seen was 16 seconds tho

[patent galleon]

was that a SCA7?

or 8?

it kinda lags and i cant see shit for a moment lol

[real phoenix]

8

[storm tulip]

Yeah my potato pc cant really record and run genshin

[patent galleon]

well one benefit to the potato PC is the kenki's not loading in so fast

so you can rush forward and have them not dash

i cant do that with mine

i have to run to the side

[storm tulip]

Yeah sure, it is still fully whaled xiao vs a dolphin itto

[patent galleon]

i still love Xiao personally, was the first character i saved up for after Klee. but even i have to admit that Itto is just Xiao 2.0

[storm tulip]

Also that gorou

Is still c3

[patent galleon]

i do think that people are overplaying the Xiao is irrelevant aspect tho, he is still a solid character in my book.

[storm tulip]

It is literally impossible for xiao to be an irrelevant character at this point, you can clear abyss with freaking barabara as your main dps

[patent galleon]

[sturdy acorn]

Xiao just need his artifact set and BOOM

He will be just like albedo

Preferably a cheap 4* jeanc4 too

His kit is good, and also his damage

[patent galleon]

not really, i feel like a broken record saying this. but an artifact set would do nothing for Xiao unless it specifically shred anemo res or Def.

any kind of attack/anemo dmg/plunge dmg boost wouldn't mean much for him

you can look at 4pc shimenawa for reference

consistency aside the set is hardly an improvement over the 2pc/2pc

[sturdy acorn]

Yeah xiao got a ton of %multiplier

Hopefully it should be sth like blizzard but different requirement

I doubt it though

[patent galleon]

give back classic Noblesse

[analog obsidian]

That thing is something else

[arctic pilot]

is your gorou C6 ?

[storm tulip]

Nope that is c3 gorou still

You can see his Q isnt healing mr

[arctic pilot]

damn thats pretty impressive

ah true is that ZL C2 btw

[storm tulip]

That zhong is c3

[arctic pilot]

hmm maybe you can go faster if you start with gorou E then ZL tap E ult

his shield applies before dmg number comes so his ult would still get the benefits of shield

[storm tulip]

The hold E is better cause I need to stall out the kenki wind slashes just for a lil bit more

I tried like you said first was worse

[arctic pilot]

hmm i see

[storm tulip]

Also while his shield applies first it doesnt come in time for geo resonance

What i mean is the shrex

Since you need a first hit with shield to proc it

[arctic pilot]

would pillar tick once before meteor drops ?

[storm tulip]

While like this pillar hits during Q

Yeah

Like with c2 pillar hits but not after shield is up, so i still prefer hold E for 1 rotation scenarios where I am not deploying a second pillar

[arctic pilot]

fair

[wraith barn]

Ooh, been wanting to play this exact comp. How much ER do you find Benny needs to fund his ult in this team?

[storm tulip]

Since I usually go gorou into bennet he is the one getting the fav particles so i've been getting away with 200% but i prob recommend like 220, I just like mistsplitter on bennet in general and I have no sky blade

[wraith barn]

Sounds good to me, thanks

Mine is 200 so I'll give it a try and change stuff around if I need

[trim willow]

That team makes itto's damage skyrocket

[patent galleon]

i personally prefer running mono geo with albedo because its just endless burst spamming, but the Bennett/Zl/gorou is nice for getting some crazy numbers out of Itto personally.

[steep marsh]

I dont even use ZL and Albedo Q 90% of the time

[patent galleon]

chances are the Bennett variation will be best for 2.4 abyss on the first half since its just single target boss sponges

[patent galleon]

i have C6 gorou and in most cases a Burst ToM ZL with Ittos team, so its worth simply because of that

ZL hits like 100-120k, C0 Albedo even with full Def build still gets 40k's on the initial hit

[storm tulip]

For me it is albedo or bennet depending purely on what I want to fight

For example vs triple kenki the Ice kenki just instantly destroys all constructs with his big explosion cause it deals too much damage so bennet is always better there imo

Same if I were fighting some shields, bennet is just able to break most shields on his own, especially since mine is c6

Albedo however is overall better in more regular situations like the remainder 5 chambers in current f12 that are not triple kenki

[patent galleon]

i prefer Bennett on the Kenki's simply because his pyro aura counters the cryo floor

[storm tulip]

It actually melts the damage on you

You take more dmg from it

But bennet heal so who cares

[patent galleon]

[static mural]

i wanted to assure myself i do not need a redhorn but

the numbers say otherwise

~ 35% increase

this is evil

[patent galleon]

35% coming from what?

[nocturne sorrel]

whiteblind maybe

[static mural]

r5 wb yeah

[reef stump]

with the conversion snapshot WB is pretty meh, Passive does so little in effect

which is why the difference is so overbearing

not actually a great weapon for Itto

[static mural]

[trim willow]

💳 serp spine

[nocturne sorrel]

redhorn is free if you're lucky enough

[steep marsh]

there's no such thing as free lunch

[somber sandal]

[dapper bramble]

how about the team overall dps? has anyone counted it before? i feels like bennet buff is good enough because of itto speed, while albedo is fixed 2s per proc.

[storm tulip]

team overall dps is higher with albedo, but bennet provides more upfront damage, so for speedrun purposes bennet can be better

[patent galleon]

yeah i can see Bennett being better for speed runs

but Albedo benefits from gorou just as well as Itto

so his additive dmg is pretty damn good

[steep marsh]

Bennett increases my Itto's dmg by 20%, like from 25k per SCA to 30k
while Albedo does like 28k procs with Gorou
I suppose Albedo is better here
tho its kinda annoying to not use Gorou passive to pull crystallized shields

[static mural]

toro can i see your albedo build

[steep marsh]

iirc, he has a 59/155 ratio
rainbow set
Cinnabar R5
E level 9

[static mural]

is it level 90

[steep marsh]

yes

[static mural]

maybe thats why my albedo hits low..hes only 80/90 for now

[steep marsh]

whats is the increase from 80 to 90?

[storm tulip]

i mean bennet only gives you 1-2 anyways and zhongli is there either way

[steep marsh]

I meant more for Gorou C2 to extend his Q duration

[patent galleon]

iirc for albedo its like 20%, Def scaling characters tend to benefit alot more from 80-90 than attack scaling ones since there arent many external sources of Def outside of just gorou

[storm tulip]

yeah i know, but it is not even really necessary both a1 and c6 dont get extended by it so you are only losing a very small portion of def scaling on charge attacks from itto a4 and 15% geo dmg for 1-2 more seconds

the defense snapshots in Q, so losing gorou Q isnt a big deal

[patent galleon]

my dmg is skewed because of C6 gorou, but my albedo is 90/T10 with 60/113% 4pc Husk and hits for 30k above 50%, 37k below openworld

so its pretty substantial sub dps

[static mural]

my albedo is 80/90 bc i dont have enough wits.. t9 E 4husk 55/153 but ive never seen him go past 21k overworld even with gorou

[storm tulip]

it is not just that, it is that actual attack scaling from 80-90 is basically nonexistant, while defense is a lot more noticeable and has higher stat values, so you both gain more defense and that defense is worth more after def% is taken into consideration

[patent galleon]

he scales hard with high investment, so getting him to 90 and crowning the E would push you to 25K+ im pretty sure.

thats kind of the downside about alot of the Geo characters, they all want heavy investment in most cases since they rely on raw damage.

so if you want the most out of them you need to be willing to go all the way

[static mural]

alright then im just not used to leveling units to 90..never invested in def scalers before

[patent galleon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/879576002349629492/903841202443517952/902998334741041212.gif

welcome to Geo

forfeit all ur resources and enjoy ur stay

[somber sandal]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/903933769310933032.gif?size=96

Triple Crowned Itto's get special perks

[patent galleon]

mines 10/9/10 so far. for the first time ever ive run out of slime drops

[somber sandal]

[steep marsh]

me with Hu Tao, Venti, Kazuha, Sucrose, Sayu and now Albedo and Itto at 90

[storm tulip]

no yanfei, how do you call yourself part of shieldfei cult

[spark aurora]

[placid elk]

is around 100 defense worth losing 7% crit damage on itto?

[steep marsh]

I'll do it when I have free time when i'm not farming for other units first

[storm tulip]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/870373865921052693.gif?v=1

finally hit my itto goal

[primal wing]

I'd rather die than get a character to 90

I'm already investing more in Itto's talents than what I'm used to

[spiral frost]

I have OCD so getting even one character to 90 would make go insane.

But it is a huge loss for Geo/Anemo.

[sturdy acorn]

Just go 89

Problem solved

[analog obsidian]

Now they have the OCD of one lvl away from max

[ancient stone]

They should not see my account then

All my characters are 1 lvl away from max for their ascension

[primal wing]

I do that only for characters at 79/80

[spiral frost]

[primal wing]

Characters at 60/70 stay that way

[dapper bramble]

i used to make all my supports lvl80 ascend, until one of them go lvl81, now every of my supports lvl90.

[ancient stone]

[static mural]

i finally got itto to 132 er i dont think i can go any higher

er optimization for non 4geo teams is not fun

[unique rover]

i cant even farm artifacts yet

[static mural]

[steep marsh]

Same

[analog obsidian]

Moraless after talent

[unique rover]

[analog obsidian]

2.4 is my leyline update

[patent galleon]

trust me

Husk domain is nothing to look forward to

unless you are a kokomi/qiqi enjoyer

im getting CW PTSD

[analog obsidian]

Real

[unique rover]

Barbs enjoying them artis ig...

[grizzled kestrel]

And then you only get crit rate/dmg or atk when you just want HP and ER on those

[analog obsidian]

Qiqi is getting quality stuff

[patent galleon]

it took me 6k resin to get 1 and only 1 5* Def sands on Husk

mean while ive gotten like 4-5 double crit Def sands for clam

[tepid stream]

I should probably stop farming for husk

I'm at 210 CV but I'm greedy and I want my favourite character to have 230 CV

[patent galleon]

i could prob stop where im at as well, both my Itto and albedo already clear abyss with no issue.

but i am also greedy and want perfection

i might stop when Yae mats get leaked and i know what to start pre-farming

[tepid stream]

lmao same, for me it's not really perfection it's just that if I like itto the most I want him to have higher CV than my hu tao who has the current highest CV

[somber sandal]

yea

just feel like giving best mans the best we can give him

[brave crow]

meanwhile my two mains hu tao and itto are both at 150 cv

and my fischl and beidou have like 180 cv

[trim willow]

My ushi is slowly growing up

[muted arrow]

by playing 4 geo you just lose on the 15% geo damage if gorou ult ends early right?

itto snapshots everything else and cdmg buff on c6 is 12s long regardless

[storm tulip]

15% geo dmg and a little bit of dmg loss from itto a4, but that is it

and that is only for 1-2 seconds in terms of difference

has anyone else noticed that gorou Q cast has the crystallize shard magnet effect on it?

that is really good for 4pc petra

[muted arrow]

I think if you have c6 gorou it's worth running 4 geo

regardless of the situation

team just flows so well

energy requirements being low on all really boosts the damage

[reef stump]

ZL shred also provides mroe dmg than you gain by extending Gorou's Q. And its not like there is a non-Geo Sub DPS an Itto comp can use to great effect. Sure you can throw in FIschl but her dmg won't be great and the same counts for other Sub DPS or even worse.
So ZL isn't really only a comfort option but looks quite optimal to me atm.

[muted arrow]

how is yunjin looking so far as an option? her damage is great with gorou isn't it

[reef stump]

Yunjin only gets 1 Counter per rot in an Itto comp and Itto doesn't do nearly enough NAs to use her Q well

[muted arrow]

how big is the difference between his boosted NA and his CA with yunjin?

like could you do something like NA spam and be fine

[reef stump]

NA Spam before Yunjin is something like a 35% DPS loss

even if you somehow made that up with her

you'd basically be comparing that to a 3 unit Itto Team using regular combos

[muted arrow]

another 4th option would still do better ye

she'd have to outweigh the CA by a lot

[reef stump]

If she could make up that difference and seize enough mileage to make it worth running her

she'd be completely broken on any regular NA using unit

[grizzled kestrel]

I always thought you needed to get the crystals with the unit wearing Petra artefacts to proc the 4p

And since you spend all the time after casting Gorou's Q on Itto, you don't get the chance to proc 4p petra

[storm tulip]

it is not on itto team, imho it is a waste there

more so on gorou as an EM shielder (if mihoyo ever improves its EM scaling like they did for every other reaction but the worst one in the game)

[storm tulip]

also, you do, that is why his Q cast magnetizing a crystal instantly instead of waiting for the first proc is really good

cause you would do E->Q and then swap to the relevant character you want the petra buff on

[charred crag]

That's my build with c6 t11 gorou and no Benny, 10/9/10 talents, r5 SS and 4husk

[charred crag]

Hm, counted all my itto dmg against kenki with a Benny rotation and ended up at ~935k, which ignoring relatively inconsequential support dmg sits around 46.7k dps on a 20sec rotation. Harder to test albedo since his flower gets destoyed very early against kenki but that's not bad for my fairly mediocre artis. Benny Q helps not get hit by cryo proc so I can practice different combos 👍 see if any are meaningfully better than the comfortable Q E SCA6 N4 SCA5 E SCAF

[ancient stone]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/765896184388648961/924449878216704020/Itto.gif

sending gif to revive ded chat

[sharp oxide]

lol wtf is this

[spark aurora]

his new passive talent

[analog obsidian]

The greatest mode of transport

[sharp sinew]

Finally I can get Zhongli for Itto

[somber sandal]

LMFAO

[primal wing]

Aerodynamics at work

[spark aurora]

i saw that

[near condor]

Is Diona Itto Gorou gmc better than Itto Gorou Ningguang Bennett?

[brave crow]

wouldn't it depend on the current level of investment in your itto but bennett will most likely be better

[near condor]

Why did you ask about Itto’s investment? I don’t understand sorry

[brave crow]

i mean that at a certain level, itto wouldn't benefit much from bennett's buffs and can run diona for shield i think

kinda like how hu tao can still benefit from bennett, but she still slaps without him, because at high investment she benefits from other buffs that aren't flat atk

[near condor]

That’s a bit different because there are more sources of em buff than there are def buff

[brave crow]

that's true that's why it's hard to say which team will pull ahead. i still think bennett offers more, but it depends

[near condor]

So Itto benefits less from Bennett’s buff the more invested he is?

[brave crow]

i think so

[near condor]

[patent galleon]

oversaturation of attack

[near condor]

I thought EM is the only thing that oversaturates aside from over 100% crit chance?

It’s only called an oversaturation because of opportunity costs

[patent galleon]

fairly certain it has diminishing returns at a certain threshold

you dont see most characters ever suffering from it tho

but units who get insane attack on their own like Hu tao/Itto/Noelle are an exception

[grizzled kestrel]

Arguable
Are GMC and Ningguang interchangeable ?
We'd then only have to compare Bennett and Diona, which boils down to 1k flat atk vs shield basically
You are able to get 1 crystallize shard with Bennett, which will be enough to proc the Geo res shred, but probably not for the 15% dmg
I'd say Bennett is better in all cases

[near condor]

Yeah the gmc and Ningguang is interchangeable so it’s okay to not mind it

[grizzled kestrel]

If you run Serpent Spine, Diona's shield becomes a lot more valuable

[near condor]

So it’s an argument of Bennett buff vs being able to get a shield for geo resonance? Don’t have serpent spine

[grizzled kestrel]

Imo yes, this is the main difference

[near condor]

Yeah I don’t know which is better, Bennett would probably have more value on the other abyss team so Diona in this case

Thank you

[grizzled kestrel]

If you value Bennett in a 2nd team then use Diona, you don't lose too much

[teal sable]

my overworld record now that I finally crowned ushi

[unique rover]

Go to energy Amp domain for more showcase dmg

[rigid bay]

I now have 11 Xiangling and 10 Barbara's from Itto banner

And still C4 gorou

Certified fucked

[reef stump]

meanwhile I have C3 Gorou and no Itto

[rigid bay]

Hand them over

I NEED IF

IT*

[reef stump]

If only we could trade Cons

[rigid bay]

At this point I have completely resigned and accepted I won't be getting C6 Gorou for this banner

Slight hope that a new geo come along soon with him on the roster again

And maybe even trying to get their Sig weapon since I have guaranteed pity within 32 pulls

[reef stump]

I have C1 Raiden and C3 Sara, gonna see if I even get C6 Sara till Raiden C2