Basically an investment standardisation for calcs
#Itto Thread
reef stump
Just that R1 PJWS Hyper Xiao sits at 870k personal w/o Collision Plunges with that being nearly all dmg there is. But Itto has less AoE, yeah
red umbra
It’s the low opportunity cost and insane survivability that appeals to me rlly
reef stump
That comp is definitely stupid tanky
red umbra
Damage looks very respectable once u factor those in
On the flipside u can argue no access to VV and poor use of Bennett hurts ceiling
But eh
U need 2 teams for abyss
reef stump
On the flipside u can argue no access to VV and poor use of Bennett hurts ceilin...
C6 Gorou is powerful enough to draw a comparison to Bennett
and ZL Shred + Geo Reso emulates VV
reef stump
red umbra
15% ish increase from c6 gorou 
reef stump
Yep
red umbra
Good stuff
reef stump
So long term getting Gorou to C6 would be a good goal to have if it doesn't work out on the first run
but its also not debilitating to have C0 Gorou
reef stump
C6 is usually around C2
red umbra
Ye
reef stump
and I wouldn't recommend Itto Cons
red umbra
That’s the issue
reef stump
C1 and C2 are too much on the QoL side and too little on the numbers side
onyx junco
i miss his old c4 
rigid bay
C1 and C2 are too much on the QoL side and too little on the numbers side
Me who has been aiming for his C2 all along:
reef stump
Me who has been aiming for his C2 all along:
C6 Gorou would still kinda make it worth it with regards to overall Team power.
With the weapon comparison done Cons evaluation is next
But from the earlier looks C1 is like 5-7% more DPS and C2 ranges from 20% big brain adjusted rots for specific clear thresholds to just keep unga bunga-ing for 0 value on the Cons
zenith aurora
How does the initial dugtrio team damage look compared to the microwave comp?
rigid bay
But from the earlier looks C1 is like 5-7% more DPS and C2 ranges from 20% big b...
Hah, yeah, understandable if that's the case. Personally I will still end up trying to have him at C2 just for the comfort that it brings, even if value-wise, it's not as good technically speaking. That and the chance for C6 Gorou, hopefully, I do not wish to pull him on another banner that features a non-geo 5 star
reef stump
If getting C6 Gorou later is not really part of the plan then going for him and potentially grabbing C2 Itto on the side is not a bad idea. Like I said earlier the Gorou C6 on a Full Geo Team is in the 15% DPS range, lets say 10-15%, which pretty great being a Teamwide increase
And if you get C6 Gorou earlier you can still opt out of another Itto Cons if you wish so
rigid bay
Yeah, hopefully I'll luck out on both sides and bail early for Yunjin consts 
I just want him to come already. 13 DAYS LEFT
whole juniper
How about damage of Itto/c6 Ning/Gorou? I know it’s nowhere as ideal as zl/albedo but I have neither.
(Ning as burst switchin)
And how would I use gorou’s uptime in that team? Do I try to fit both Ning and Itto into one iteration of Gorou buff, or do I just leave Ning out of it or what
reef stump
How about damage of Itto/c6 Ning/Gorou? I know it’s nowhere as ideal as zl/albed...
Haven't calced it yet. A potential issue right off the bat is however that Itto wants Supports to take as little field time as possible. So while Ning can burst for a ton of dmg she will also extend rotations to some degree, which is generally something that affects Team DPS negatively if it can be avoided. So really have to see how worthwhile that is at the end of the day.
For the buffing part. Both Gorou E and Q apply his Buff. So you can simply do Gorou E -> Ning -> Gorou Q -> Itto.
Taking significant Buff Uptime away from Itto would likely just disqualify the Support in question.
whole juniper
That rotation sounds good. I mean, worst case I’ll just go Itto/geo traveler/Gorou for the extra crit from traveler and use Ning on a second team, but it’d be nice to fit both in
Ning does generate a nice amount of particles tho doesn’t she? Would help battery both Itto and Gorou
reef stump
Ning does generate a nice amount of particles tho doesn’t she? Would help batter...
Her E has icd on particle generation and given Itto's field time you thus only get energy from 1 E per rot which isn't exactly an overwhelming amount, although ofc still quite servicable
storm tulip
yes, any hit ushi takes is also added, in fact that interaction is shown on livestream
whole juniper
Her E has icd on particle generation and given Itto's field time you thus only g...
Can't you go something like Gorou E -> Ning E, run through wall, Q, charged attack, E again (once the 6 sec are up) -> Gorou Q -> Itto? Since running through the wall gives bonus geo damage I figure you want a second wall up anyway for Itto. I'm just brainstorming tho
storm tulip
Can't you go something like Gorou E -> Ning E, run through wall, Q, charged atta...
that is extending the rotation by a lot
reef stump
Can't you go something like Gorou E -> Ning E, run through wall, Q, charged atta...
That doesnt take 6s for the icd to be up
and waiting for it is never worth it
whole juniper
Ok, so just skip the wait then. You get Ning's whole burst with 2x walls and a wall to boost Itto's damage, and at least one wall worth of particles which should be enough with decent ER%
storm tulip
yeah, it is less than what albedo generates on average but is enough
if you are struggling with energy you can use sacrificial fragments ning though
only c2 has ICD for particle generation
sac frags still works
whole juniper
Don't have one tho, so that's not an option 
short obsidian
How is itto's powerlevel atm?
alpine crown
static mural
what the assumption for itto's er range?
frigid hound
Around Eulas
turbid dagger
How is itto's powerlevel atm?
Itto's ER will depend on C2 or not too.
If he's C2 in mono Geo, he gets a ton of free energy.
reef stump
His C2 basically doesn't matter in Quad Geo. He can go as low as 110% ER in such a comp
storm tulip
yup, c2 helps making non mono geo comps viable, that is its main upside
since geo resonance is always a given (2 geo party members)
reef stump
Duo Geo in particular is where Itto can use some extra energy, but its sadly also the case where C2 isn't as strong anymore. Altohugh 12 energy is still neat.
Still a pretty underwhelming Cons all in all, imo
patent galleon
reminds me of Xiao's cons where its kinda C6 or Bust
tho Xiao def has worse ones
Itto's old C4 was at least tempting
reef stump
Not quite as bleak as Xiao, but there isn't really a chase Cons besides C6, yeah
turbid dagger
That's why I like Hu Tao. You only really need her C1.
Not that her other cons are bad, and her C6 makes her unstoppable, but her C1 is definitely the best.
patent galleon
honestly i find Hu tao's C6 to be useless outside of showcases
turbid dagger
Yeah, I mean, if her C6 was her C2 instead, it'd be a lot more useful, since if you're enough of a whale to have her C6, you definitely don't need it.
patent galleon
there really isnt alot of situations where she will die, and you use her Burst when available for the nuke so you wont often drop that low
but tbh it is preferred when units mostly get their power from C0, such as Ganyu/Xiao/Hu tao. and Itto seems to be in the same ball park in regards to his own dmg.
reef stump
Its certainly sweet that HT has her game changer Cons as C1.
turbid dagger
Well... Itto's C6 ups his damage a ton in this case though.
Definitely his best con.
patent galleon
tho i suspect we will see some crazy stuff with itto's C6 no doubt, between that and his weapon he can reach 300+ crit dmg
reef stump
C6 Itto isn't really that crazy anymore since he isn't suited for the kind of speedruns that happen at that level
Its a ton of dmg, but its still sustained dmg
patent galleon
iirc with his weapon, C6, crit dmg helm and C6 gorou he can hit 310 effective crit dmg on his CA before substats. which is impressive even if its not speedrun worthy
reef stump
The dmg gain from C6 is certainly impressive, yeah
turbid dagger
I'm just glad that, if I do accidentally get him, he'll be super easy to build since I can just legit swap over all of Noelle's gear to him.
patent galleon
ill be doing that myself to start since i have a very good bolide set on her
at least until i can farm good Husk
turbid dagger
Ah, I'm currently farming Husk like mad, since I have C6 Noelle and Albedo.
patent galleon
i farmed Bolide for her ages ago when i got C6
i farmed a half ass set of Husk for albedo then stopped to prefarm for Itto/Gorou
ill return to Husk later
turbid dagger
Kinda wondering though. Does Itto need a shielder strictly?
reef stump
Kinda wondering though. Does Itto need a shielder strictly?
Geo Reso needs to be active
turbid dagger
Like if I use Itto/Albedo/Gorou, does the last slot have to be Zhongli or a shielder?
patent galleon
im not sure id trust depending on crystalize alone, even with Itto's high Def. at least in abyss
turbid dagger
Gorou pulls in elemental shards though, so wouldn't any off-field DPS that can proc crystalize be fine too?
Like, could I just put in Beidou?
reef stump
Just look at the dmg Triple Maguu can put out
patent galleon
^
turbid dagger
She has a shield.
reef stump
I wouldn't trust in Crystallize
patent galleon
beidou shield isnt that strong
patent galleon
id still try for a dedicated sheilder, even if its not zhongli
reef stump
Beidou in Triple Geo needs to run 230% ER or so. SHe can be servicable as she also offers dmg reduction but don't think you'll get more dmg that way than running ZL
patent galleon
could use sheildfei with TTDS
turbid dagger
Well, Noelle's awful for support and my only other shielder is Thoma, but he's needed for vv Tao.
red umbra
is itto fine with r5 whiteblind or is it a huge cope
turbid dagger
No Shieldfei.
reef stump
is itto fine with r5 whiteblind or is it a huge cope
Pins
patent galleon
Diona? everyone got her for free right?
turbid dagger
I've only been playing since August.
patent galleon
rip
turbid dagger
I did do 80 pulls last banner and got 0 Dionas. lol
reef stump
Beidou as a shielder isn't necessarily a bad idea tbh
You jsut dont get the scary dmg Beidou one normally expects
patent galleon
whats her shield scale off? HP?
reef stump
whats her shield scale off? HP?
yes
turbid dagger
Yeah, 16% max HP.
storm tulip
yes, it is hp, but you wouldnt invest in hp
turbid dagger
Not the best.
storm tulip
crystallize+her damage reduction+itto's massive defense would be enough
turbid dagger
Well, I will probably get Zhongli eventually anyways.
But depends on when he reruns and how good Yae is.
red umbra
u can cope with crystallize tbh but zhongli will be more reliable
reef stump
C1 Itto Rots for the Cons evaluation are a pain
I found a really good C0 Rot for a 0 STack Starter
but for C1 its a bit meh
languid linden
yep better itto with redhorn than c1
gritty mason
thoughts on rolling for redhorn over albedo for itto's teams? i have zhongli, so i assume i'd run itto/gorou/zhongli + 1 and I don't have a BP so no serpent spine. is albedo or redhorn a better investment?
turbid dagger
Albedo's gonna be easier to get regardless. The issue is it depends on how much primos you have and if you're willing to swipe.
'Cause like... there's a chance you could waste your primos, not get Redhorn, and also not have enough to get other things you want in the future because of it.
(and if you are willing to put down that money anyways, just get both)
Also depends on if C6 Gorou or not, I just realized. Since Gorou's not only buffing Itto's crit but also Albedo's.
forest stream
whats the approximate dmg that a c0 itto w r1 blackcliff, in a hu tao kazuha bennett comp would be doing?
languid linden
look pinned message for black cliff dmg result
atomic sundial
like is this some dual carry stuff I haven't heard of, or
patent galleon
i dont think Hu tao even has the actual downtime for Itto to fit in anyway
plus at that point Itto would have no battery, no shield, no Geo res ect.
atomic sundial
yea
it's not like he can give her anything aside from a taunt
or meme holding petra
thick portal
may I ask what artifact set and stat do gorou nid?
atomic sundial
I think there's been some discussion about that
apparently his personal damage isn't really all that worth
so I could probably recommend like 4NO
or 2 EoSF if you need the ER
worthy plume
hello, i just saw a video that said itto team dps is probably 157k with max build, higher than melt ganyu, is this true?
real phoenix
hello, i just saw a video that said itto team dps is probably 157k with max buil...
that’s so vague
worthy plume
157k per s?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC15AgRNrNQ 51 mins in
patent galleon
what are his assumptions for Itto's team tho
i see he claims C6 gorou/Bennett (C5? 5* weapon?)/ R5 Freedom sword albedo.
but whats Itto's build?
is he assuming C6 R5?
real phoenix
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC15AgRNrNQ 51 mins in
i single sentence isn’t math or any clear indication of how he got those numbers
worthy plume
i single sentence isn’t math or any clear indication of how he got those numbers
i found the original video
i dont understand all of the math, so can anyone figure out if its legit
the numbers are absurd
reef stump
Skimming through the video I don't see any 157k Team DPS
If thats supposed to come from the 1.74M Personal dmg on a R5 C6 Itto Team
thats not how Team DPS works
or even personal DPS for that matter
real phoenix
1.74M dmg in 10 seconds is sus
reef stump
Plausible for C6 R5 with C6 Gorou + C5 Bennett
Its not 10s though since Q cast time, hitlag extension etc. more like 14-15s
But like
Thats R5 C6
And thats its own space entirely
real phoenix
Its not 10s though since Q cast time, hitlag extension etc. more like 14-15s
that’s what makes it sus lol
reef stump
that’s what makes it sus lol
There is definitely no regard for real situations and how stuff works in practice
Its just Itto does 1.74M Dmg in 1 Q Window. Desc reads its 11s long -> 1.74M/11 = 158k DPS
whole juniper
Tangential, but, has anyone got a decent bug picking route?
zenith aurora
1.74M dmg in 10 seconds is sus
No idea for Itto. Not that unreasonable for other hyper carries... C3R1 Raiden hyper would be close to 1.5M personal damage in 7s (+hit lag). I'd imagine C6R5 full buff geo hyper carry falling a bit short isn't a stretch at all...
signal oriole
Tangential, but, has anyone got a decent bug picking route?
i'm really lazy, i used this video and found that i prefer the routes mentioned at these timestamps https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjzMF9fIQmw
4:45 - under the tenshukaku (6)
7:40 - in the mikage furnace (5, 6 if you grab the one on the roof that was skipped)
3:58 - the big hole south of the narukami shrine (6)
there are a bunch more but they involve a lot more running
whole juniper
i'm really lazy, i used this video and found that i prefer the routes mentioned ...
Awesome, thanks
ruby tundra
Question: Is Redhorn looking like a good buy or not? I do have serpent spine, but I don't want to miss out on a good weapon if its.
reef stump
Question: Is Redhorn looking like a good buy or not? I do have serpent spine, bu...
Weapon comparison in the pins
ruby tundra
I know it is his best weapon, its more so is it like on the same level of homa where multiple people can use it and its good on all of them
Does that make sense?
reef stump
Given that the difference for Itto specifically isn't already very large between R1 Redhorn and R5 SS its fairly surely worse on other characters that can't use the Passive well
So its definitely not outstanding for your regular non-DEF scaling Claymore units
ruby tundra
Ok that is what I was wondering because I have like 3 claymore users I like to use and I was wondering would this be a worthwhile purchase for all of them
reef stump
Redhorn is still quite fine as a generalist Claymore, but from what I've seen its still a bit worse or atleast not better than WGS and SS.
ruby tundra
Alright. Thank you. I remember seeing a claim that is was like the homa of claymores
And I was like... idk if that is true so let me ask
reef stump
The gigantic CD Sub makes it look like it, but it lacks a useful Passive to push it that little bit further
ruby tundra
Thank you for the info
reef stump
@storm tulip Do you have a notable C1 Itto rot for a 0 Stack starter with no extra hits on Ushi? Currently working on a general Cons evaluation but I have trouble finding C1 combos that don't run on extra Stacks from previous rots/Ushi getting hit.
steep marsh
The gigantic CD Sub makes it look like it, but it lacks a useful Passive to push...
Diluc just needed a Crit Claymore to come back to the top right?
reef stump
Diluc just needed a Crit Claymore to come back to the top right? <:Copium:834822...
Smh Forward Melt isn't saving Diluc
frigid hound
hello, i just saw a video that said itto team dps is probably 157k with max buil...
just a bit lower compared to god's Hutao personal dps of 158k with 2ncd+9n2cd on vv whale moment
anyways that 157k is misleading as fuck
sounds like personal dps with 1 Q duration
red umbra
Like eula hu tao and ganyu
I believe ayaka and xiao are in place of eula, eula is a rly good hyper carry but not on the level of those mentioned at c0. unless ure talking about c6. anyways, c0 itto looks solid, not too sure about c6 though, to be able to tell whether he's on par with eula we gotta wait and see to be certain
languid linden
how many hit did itto do on his CA
between c0 vs c1?
patent galleon
it would really depend on timing/Ushi receiving hits tbh
im not sure its something that can be gauged on avg
plus his C1 would only affect the first CA at best since the extra additive stacks only last for 1.5 seconds
languid linden
sadly ppl misunderstood him and thinking superlative strength can be gained without hitting enemy
i see many video itto from yt just like that
patent galleon
why would people think that?
real phoenix
plus his C1 would only affect the first CA at best since the extra additive stac...
that doesnt sound correct
patent galleon
that doesnt sound correct
i meant that you would only see it give him extra swings during the first CA of a rotation, the effect starts 1s after he triggers his Ult, and lasts 1.5 seconds
and that 1s, is it right after you press Q? or is it 1s after his animation ends? either way you wouldn't have much time to start a CA at the right time for it to line up with the effects of C1
real phoenix
i meant that you would only see it give him extra swings during the first CA of ...
yes, meaning he DOES get stacks without hitting enemies, he gets a stack every 0.5 seconds for 1.5 seconds aka 3 stacks
patent galleon
thats not what i was talking about
that was simply a statement made by Baal
i was responding to the question about how many extra swings on a CA would C1 grant
languid linden
oh ok i finally know why
patent galleon
its not really something i think you can put an exact # on
onyx junco
I believe ayaka and xiao are in place of eula, eula is a rly good hyper carry bu...
im concerned of how big of a hit his dps would take if he doesnt generate particles while on Q
real phoenix
and that 1s, is it right after you press Q? or is it 1s after his animation ends...
you do?
C1 lets you start the ult at 0 stacks and still do an SCA5 at the beginning of your ult assuming ushi isn't on the field
real phoenix
at C0 if you start the ult with 0 stacks you're screwed, but at C1 you get what i said, that's what i meant by 0 stacks
like, if you go into the ult with 0 stacks
marble pebble
def% gob vs geo gob did someone make a comparison or smth can i see
patent galleon
am i misunderstanding something then? i thought Itto needed 5 stacks to do a full CA? if C1 grants 2 on cast. then how would you be able to go into Q and immediately start a CA5?
at best you would need to wait the full 2.5 seconds after his Q for the remaining 3 stacks
assuming you dont use Ushi
real phoenix
am i misunderstanding something then? i thought Itto needed 5 stacks to do a ful...
C1 lets him start with 2, then another 3 after over 2.5 seconds (1 second + 1.5)
the first CA takes around a second so the extra 3 would already start trickling in by the time the first SCA is done
patent galleon
so ur saying that upon Q you just start a CA and hope the last 3 stacks are added in time to count towards it?
real phoenix
they should be added in time
if we're using the frames from the whopperflower video, 100% they should be added in time
patent galleon
yeah but that wasn't what i was talking about in my response, i was responding about how C1 would have the potential to grant extra slashes on his CA assuming the effect grants additional stacks as he is currently executing a CA5 and consuming stacks.
so normally a CA5 is 4 swings right?, but assume you start with 5 stacks before Q (or 3 in this case), then start a CA in time when the effect kicks in, it was to my understanding that they would be added and consumed granting a few extra swings
if done with the right timing
reef stump
at C0 if you start the ult with 0 stacks you're screwed, but at C1 you get what ...
For the sake of C1 I almost wish that were the case, but I haven't actually found a C1 combo beating C0 by more than 1% with both entering from a 0 Stack situation.
real phoenix
For the sake of C1 I almost wish that were the case, but I haven't actually foun...
was it because of his NA buffs?
reef stump
Yep, NA Buffs for one, timing for the other. You can't build a proper third SCA window
real phoenix
reef stump
So you just move the Stacks to a different point in the rotation
You can basically leave with 5 Stacks and overcap next rot
but its difficult to get much mileage
You basically trade 1-2 NAs for 1-2 SCA swings, which is no significant difference for overall dmg
C1 seems to gain momentum though if you have Stacsk from the get go or Ushi gets pummeled as you can then do 2 very fat SCA combos with barely any NAs
which stacks up the difference
still only 7% DPS or so
real phoenix
curse NA buffs with no SCA buffs
reef stump
I'm thinking about skipping on the Cons evaluation since C1 with current frames is almsot nothing
C2 is nothing
C4 is whatever
Oh Boi 40% more dmg on C6
C2 is like 5%
and still need to check C5
probs 10% or so
real phoenix
which would you prefer? the frames from the whopperflower vid, or the official youtube livestream?
for release
reef stump
official
Think I actually haven't updated my sheet with those, since I didn't think they'd change much since the previous ones weren't that far off, but maybe I should take another look for C1 stuff with the official ones
I lowkey still expect him to be able to do a bit more than I assume rn anyway.
Unless his transitions are shit
patent galleon
so was i wrong in assuming the C1 effect could add additional swings to a CA mid execution? i thought i asked about that here before and was told it could in theory if done at the right time
or at least should
reef stump
so was i wrong in assuming the C1 effect could add additional swings to a CA mid...
It absolutely can make a difference, but from what I get currently its fairly situational. Let me give you an example
Hypothetically, not the actual rot atm:
C0 Q E N4 SCA5 N4 SCA5 E
You basically build 2 full combos and spend them
Now you get C1 and can start with 5 Stacks
C1 Q E SCA5 N4 SCA5 N2 SCA2
reef stump
You don't have the time to build a full third SCA combo, so you have to do some half-half shenanigans
patent galleon
so is it just more effort than its worth?
reef stump
actually SCA6
its jsut an example, you don't do N4 SCA5 after E anyway
However
If you have extra Stacks
from previous rots
You can do smth like SCA8 N4 SCA5
And suddenly the time at the end where you can only do some half-assed combos
is transferred entirely into SCA Spam with maxed ATK Speed
which then translates into a 7%ish DPS increase
That might change with release combos, since the whole thing is determined by the Q window and what you can do with it
So maybe you can always get those 7%
But I can't tell right now
So what I'm concerned its a 1-7% DPS increase based on circumstance
reef stump
actually SCA6
And for the actual 0 Stack Staer combos I have atm:
C0: Q E N3 SCA4 N4 SCA5 E
C1: Q E SCA6 N2 SCA3 N1 SCA1 E
patent galleon
thats why i said i didnt think it was something that could be gauged on avg since it seems somewhat situational/dependent on timing
also whether or not the 1s delay starts before or after the Q animation
reef stump
Yep
and realistically current combo estimations are whack anyway
since Ushi mgiht get hit
which might make you want to adjust combos on the fly
Especially since interrupting your SCA combos early is not a good idea
so if you get extra Stacks you basically have to keep going anyway
arctic eagle
so.. how much better will C0 Itto be compared to C6 Noelle? assuming they have the same artifacts, same weapon, same talent levels (+3 for Noelle's skill and burst), and same crit ratio
trying to see if Itto will be worth to pull if I already have a fully built Noelle
real phoenix
so.. how much better will C0 Itto be compared to C6 Noelle? assuming they have t...
50% iirc, but don't quote me on that
jolly vault
this is for a comp where it's noelle/itto, zhongli, albedo, gorou but i remember seeing this msg earlier? not entirely sure how it might work in your case but @arctic eagle
arctic eagle
alright, thanks for the answers 
nocturne sorrel
i'm waiting for release to see how his aoe pans out
if diluc is any indication, having a combo that makes you constantly step forward at the nearest enemy is bad for grouping
marble pebble
what would gorou's artifacts be
analog obsidian
Most likely 4 nobless
nocturne sorrel
he'll probably need ER sands
he has nothing important scaling off def, just very minor damage contribution
storm tulip
<@!204320790525640704> Do you have a notable C1 Itto rot for a 0 Stack starter w...
I dont, since we dont have any c1 gameplay and I know I'm very likely gonna be getting c1 either way since i'm going for c6 gorou I figured I would just actually test it then
storm urchin
Hi guys,
it will OK if I use 2pc Husk and 2pc Noblesse for Itto?
still didn't get good arte -_-
onyx junco
2p noblesse is not going to do anything for him
atomic sundial
better try using 2petra as a placeholder instead of noblesse
or if you're seriously desperate for sets 2 glad/2 shime/2 emblem will do more for him than noblesse
storm urchin
thank you very much @onyx junco @atomic sundial
reef stump
I dont, since we dont have any c1 gameplay and I know I'm very likely gonna be g...
Makes sense. Probably just gonna do a range for the evaluation, since its very sensitive to specific scenarios
red umbra
What is going to be Gorou's bis arti set in an Itto comp?
reef stump
What is going to be Gorou's bis arti set in an Itto comp?
Likely just 4NO since his own dmg is so weak, making the low impact it has on Itto still outweigh what Sets for his own dmg would do. But if you wnated to build for Gorou's dmg anyway it would be 4HooD/4EoSF
whole juniper
Which one is most likely to be good for Itto? I’m still farming but curious.
reef stump
Which one is most likely to be good for Itto? I’m still farming but curious.
Certainly not the ATK Circlet. Second one looks promising though
whole juniper
Yeah had a feeling 4* circlet with crit was better. Coolio
reef stump
Oh, its 4*, didn't even notice that, lol
but ATK% Circlet is jsut pure garbage on Itto in any case
whole juniper
Roger
I've had complete shit luck with circlets throughout my entire genshin career, still only have one or two 5* hats in total with crit mainstat. So I'm preparing for the worst :p
Btw, how well does Def% scale for him? Can a Def Goblet ever be on par with a Geo goblet?
reef stump
Btw, how well does Def% scale for him? Can a Def Goblet ever be on par with a Ge...
Geo Goblet always wins
median rose
Is there an itto faq that talks about his details like particle regeneration?
reef stump
Is there an itto faq that talks about his details like particle regeneration?
We don't have a FAQ here. Might want to check Itto Mains if they have one.
His particle gen should be 3-4, don't think we know the weighting of that though.
median rose
Oho 
thx Ill be looking around
dapper bramble
in goro ben zl team, how much differences r5 SS and redhorn r1 will be?
should be less than ~5% right since redhorn passive scales on def only.
blissful acorn
in goro ben zl team, how much differences r5 SS and redhorn r1 will be?
Pins
blissful acorn
Then you probs have to math it
From my own calcs a 1200atk bennett buff reduces the difference to about 10%
dapper bramble
but r5 ss and redhorn r1 is ~5%. it should be lower than that.
reef stump
in goro ben zl team, how much differences r5 SS and redhorn r1 will be?
Practically no difference if Bennetts ATK Buff is large enough
dapper bramble
Practically no difference if Bennetts ATK Buff is large enough
nice to hear that since my team is gorou + benet (aquila tl12) with r5 SS.
reef stump
Whoops did a small mistake, doesn't really change much though
Instead of forgetting to change a variable I changed the wrong one, so I had to change that back aswell, but thats now definitely the correct value
As a bonus, some other Bennett Buff values (one above is T13 Alley Flash):
T13 Aquila
T9 Festering Desire:
analog obsidian
Some questions
Does itto's stack still carry after he's switched?
What's itto rotation if he got full stack and no stack c0?
reef stump
Some questions
Does itto's stack still carry after he's switched?
What's itto ro...
Itto's Stacks last 60s and will retain them for that duration when he is switched out.
The current best C0 0 Stack Starter rotation I've found is: Q E N3 SCA4 N4 SCA 5 E
However I wouldn't be too focussed on ideal combos right now since leaked frame data is not perfect and we have to see if current assumtpions translate into actual gameplay or if we get better or worse combos in practice.
Ushi getting hit will also change up your rotation slightly, which is likely something you have to look out for on the fly and looking for every ideal combo for every possible scenario isn't worth it before he is out and testable
analog obsidian
Hmm,oke then,if the stack doesn't leave when he switches is already a good plus so setup first is possible
reef stump
Hmm,oke then,if the stack doesn't leave when he switches is already a good plus ...
You can work with setups but for current data its surpirisingly low value. If you look at the rotation I showed, if you move up the SCA5 by starting with Full Stacks you effectively end with a NA combo, since starting with a SCA combo doesn't give you more time inside Q. SO all you can do is split that N4 that would be left over at the end into some N2 SCA2 mix, which is only a minimal dmg increase.
Example:
0 Stacks Q E N3 SCA4 N4 SCA 5 E
5 Stacks Q E SCA 5 N3 SCA4 N4 E (moving the SCA combo up)
adjusted: Q E SCA5 N3 SCA4 N2 SCA2 E
Which is why its especially important to see how combos look exactly in practice and if there will be space left for combos with starting Stacks to shine.
analog obsidian
It gets clunkier it seems but how bout c1 0 stacks then?
Coz it gives extra stacks after q
reef stump
It gets clunkier it seems but how bout c1 0 stacks then?
Same issue, since C1 basically just lets you start with 5 Stacks
analog obsidian
Ok then,thanks!
reef stump
If you start with some Stacks and have C1 you can get mileage since you can spend Stacks before the delayed 3 kick in. So you can potential do a SCA8-9 combo, at which point you actually draw value from the whole thing, since those N4 left over at the end get almost fully transferred into an extended SCA combo
analog obsidian
So if c1 it's best to start with 1 stack and then
Q E SCA 7-9 N4 SCA 5?
Some adjustments depending if tiny cow gets hit
reef stump
So if c1 it's best to start with 1 stack and then
Q E SCA 7-9 N4 SCA 5?
Another E at the end since its a huge chunk of dmg and gives you 2 Stacks minimum to start with for the next rot, but yeah, that would be the ideal scenario pretty much.
analog obsidian
So at the NA 3 or 4 with E?
reef stump
Simply like this:
Q E SCA 7-9 N4 SCA 5 E
Since Q lasts 11s you get your E back at the end to finish the Q rotation with. Hitlag extension mgiht mess with the timing a little but the idea should stay the same in any case
analog obsidian
Ok ok,thanks very much
red umbra
Is Itto strong according to math or not really?
static mural
itto at 2.3 preload
https://streamable.com/xwgpcs
real phoenix
@reef stump anything useful to count in that you think? ^
reef stump
<@!209617229216612352> anything useful to count in that you think? ^
Don't think so
real phoenix
Don't think so
seems like a bugged build too or something, itto isn't gaining any stacks through his NAs during ult
reef stump
seems like a bugged build too or something, itto isn't gaining any stacks throug...
Not even sure if he gets Stacks w/o hitting enemies
ah, nvm the end has an enemy
But if its just another stitched together private server, then even less need to take a closer look
I'm also pretty much done with my stuff. Cons evaluation should be done tomorrow
And not really motivated to look at more combo options now 1 1/2 weeks before release
strong escarp
Hi, there is a huge different between Itto with the redhorn and without it?
jolly vault
should be a sheet in pins to compare his best weapons
strong escarp
I have only 110 pulls and its to see if is worth it to pull for his weapon more than pull for his constellations
reef stump
your stuff should be published <:A_smolhutao:795081933980696646>
Not sure about the interest of having that published for my investment standards
Cons Evaluation Sneak peek:
real phoenix
Not sure about the interest of having that published for my investment standards...
i don’t know much about investment standards 
i assume yours are high?
reef stump
Yeah. I consider it a non-refresh soft ceiling
Basically the rough area where you'd cap out if you hyperinvested w/o refreshing before you hit absurd diminishing returns on Artifact Upgrades
reef stump
I have only 110 pulls and its to see if is worth it to pull for his weapon more...
If you have Serpent Spine, especially if refined, then neither his early Cons nor his Weapon are groundshaking upgrades. The main reason to keep going on the Itto Banner would be to get C6 Gorou moreso than getting C1/2 Itto
strong escarp
If you have Serpent Spine, especially if refined, then neither his early Cons no...
And if I don't have Serpent Spine?
reef stump
And if I don't have Serpent Spine?
Then Redhorn would become quite desirable, certainly more than his early Cons.
languid linden
keep looking for a geo goblet
damn 3 week bro i hate seeing always geo ocean clam already
static mural
damn 3 week bro i hate seeing always geo ocean clam already
one more week bro dont lose hope and dont drop the geo goblet either. its geo or bust
turbid dagger
I wonder if Itto's burst only snapshots the ATK bonus like Noelle's does.
languid linden
one more week bro dont lose hope and dont drop the geo goblet either. its geo or...
ok i will do it
let farm like in the hell
😭
dapper bramble
I wonder if Itto's burst only snapshots the ATK bonus like Noelle's does.
pretty sure thats the first thing everyone will test out after his release.
primal wing
damn 3 week bro i hate seeing always geo ocean clam already
Bro your first mistake was looking for an on set goblet
Fool's errand
languid linden
Bro your first mistake was looking for an on set goblet <:A_HuCry:79139891786992...
but i got ready 3 set husk with nice stat plus def sand with cr/cdmg except geo goblet my only choice is shiting on domain or change geo to def husk
😭
primal wing
but i got ready 3 set husk with nice stat plus def sand with cr/cdmg except geo ...
Bruh the domain hasn't even been out for a month. Just keep farming it's not the end of the world
It takes me 2 months on average to finish artifacts for 1 character
languid linden
i have a life though probably i can't survive doing same domain for 2 month like shit lol
inland dagger
pretty sure thats the first thing everyone will test out after his release.
What are the effects if it snapshots or not
dapper bramble
What are the effects if it snapshots or not
if it snapshot, losing 24% def in first rotation if using SS
need to get whiteblind stack before burst. loss bit dps.
inland dagger
if it snapshot, losing 24% def in first rotation if using SS
I see, thanks!
What assumptions do people put in the sheets?
storm tulip
if it snapshot, losing 24% def in first rotation if using SS
you dont really lose 24%, you would get a couple of Hood stacks since you would start with support abilities before going to itto, you lose 1-2 stacks tops
dapper bramble
storm tulip
whiteblind you would auto once before pressing Q, but more than 1 stack for whiteblind is unreasonable
primal wing
<:E_worry:792812046563016704>
i have a life though probably i can't survive doi...
It's the same amount of time regardless of what you spend your resin on (like 15 minutes a day) 🤷♂️ unless you mean that you don't play genshin every day
Rng is brutal, if you don't wanna farm you gotta lower your standards
blissful acorn
you dont really lose 24%, you would get a couple of Hood stacks since you would ...
Just don't put itto on 1
Ah nvm that's with SS
long oriole
How good will Itto be and what teams does he want.
blissful acorn
How good will Itto be and what teams does he want.
scroll to the top and start reading?
long oriole
Thanks
whole juniper
So since I don't have ZL or Albedo but do have a built c6 Ning my plan is to run Itto/Ning/Gorou/Diana (or something else for 4th) with Ning acting as burst switch-in. But, would I get higher team damage if I go Itto/Geo traveler/Gorou/4th instead?
Ning is lotsa burst and 12% geo damage buff, but Traveler is 10% crit chance and requires less time switched in. I kinda hate how in-the-way geo traveler ult is tho
turbid dagger
Yeah, there's no real ideal. Both have their issues.
Best if you just get Albedo. lol
reef stump
I personally think Ning as a Burst Support might take too much field time.
whole juniper
Well, getting Albedo is not an option. I have guaranteed focus and 120 pulls atm, so if I get Albedo then I won't have an Itto to pair him with in the first place unless I get stupid lucky :p
don't wanna risk it
But Ning might do more good in another comp - for example together with my Hu Tao who I'm considering using as the carry for my second team
I just really, really hate having to play around Geo Traveler's walls. Sure it gives me 10% crit, but it also spreads the weaker monsters out and block them off from actually damaging them half the time
patent galleon
tbh thats kind of the downside with Itto IMO, his ideal teams aren't cheap. and the alternative options are kinda eh. personally id go with Geo traveler because of the lower field time needed to E/Q. Itto really wont have that much downtime in practice assuming you dont have energy issues.
turbid dagger
Well, getting Albedo is not an option. I have guaranteed focus and 120 pulls atm...
Hmm... then just get Albedo and go Noelle carry.
whole juniper
Not a chance, I want Itto
turbid dagger
lol fair
whole juniper
I want something new to make the game feel fresh - building the character you get on the first day of playing kinda goes completely against that :p
turbid dagger
That's why I'm planning on pairing her with the new support character and new set. And Albedo has his new weapon and the new set.
whole juniper
As a f2p I've basically made my peace with never having optimal units for a team, it is what it is.
Yeah, but gameplay-wise, I've done a lot of Noelle at the start of things, and unless I'm wrong Albedo offers the grand total gameplay of: Switch in, press E, switch back? So I'd basically be playing as Noelle which wouldn't feel fresh at all
turbid dagger
Right, but the way Itto works is basically... Noelle's playstyle without being able to shield or heal himself. lol
whole juniper
The stacks seem interesting, and he's got flair
turbid dagger
I suppose charged instead of normal is a big dif.
whole juniper
Also a taunting pig and a lot of damage
And, I don't think my Noelle has a lot of constellations anyway
turbid dagger
She will by the time you get Albedo. No, but really... Itto kinda seem hard to build around.
His best comp includes 3 limited 5*s.
whole juniper
Yeah probably, but I'm not gonna speedrun with him or anything
surely even without his best comp he's gonna be able to do well? From what I've seen in this channel so far he seems to be able to do well even without Albedo. Plus, if I get Albedo, I won't have Gorou, so that'd suck for Noelle anyway
reef stump
Current estimations have Itto towering above C6 Noelle with a 50% dmg gap. Its hard to imagine having that voided merely by missing Albedo
turbid dagger
Yeah, the concern without Albedo is just that his swing isn't the widest, so he'll lack AoE.
reef stump
Not like Albedo has huge AoE on his E procs
turbid dagger
Current estimations have Itto towering above C6 Noelle with a 50% dmg gap. Its ...
Have C0 Itto with a 50% damage gap over C6 Noelle?
reef stump
Have C0 Itto with a 50% damage gap over C6 Noelle?
yes
turbid dagger
Proof?
whole juniper
Basically, Itto/Gorou/Geo/4th must surely be able to hold its own against Noelle/Albedo/2 more without Gorou?
turbid dagger
you can check pins for Ittos dmg
That doesn't have Noelle's though. lol
And my only claim is that Itto's harder to build around.
reef stump
Proof?
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OXZPDUsAsmiappp9_2AUVG8DgOCZS-1I0s79i_le8kQ/edit#gid=0
Noelle and thats R5 SS Itto
whole juniper
So c0 Itto + C0 Gorou alone is still 5k dps higher than C6 Noelle + C6 Gorou. How much dps does Albedo add?
reef stump
Noelle on her ST specific rotation, yeah. Albedo with Geo Reso + C6 Gorou at those investment levels is roughly 13.5k DPS
turbid dagger
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OXZPDUsAsmiappp9_2AUVG8DgOCZS-1I0s79i_le...
Yeah, almost 50% if you include Zhongli, but I think it'll be a bit more more narrow when you account for full comps, since Noelle doesn't need a shielder and has a free slot compared to Itto.
whole juniper
So basically whether Noelle would be more or less damage for me depends on if I manage to nab a c0 Gorou with my leftover pulls after getting Albedo
Which is unlikely
reef stump
Yeah, almost 50% if you include Zhongli, but I think it'll be a bit more more na...
Generally, Noelle won't use her ST combo, so the better comparison is her AoE combo, which sits at 555k . Itto sits at 813k -> 813/555 = 1.465, so 46.5% more damage.
ancient pecan
another interesting comparison would be noelle + r1 redhorn vs itto + r5 SS
considering guarantee character and weapon cost more or less the same (weapon slightly more but more variance)
turbid dagger
Generally, Noelle won't use her ST combo, so the better comparison is her AoE co...
Ah, yeah, I read off the wrong column.
patent galleon
Itto would almost always be paired with gorou anyway no? seems kinda skewed to not include him.
ancient pecan
yea, specially when gorou is featured in his banner
you would have to be really unlucky to get itto but no gorou
reef stump
ZLs contribution is also not to be overlooked tbh
red umbra
noelle also has a battery requirement no?
reef stump
since he gets to resonate off Ushi and either GMC, Ning or Albedo
And the shred is 9.5% more dmg for everyone in the Team
Itto's natural tankiness makes building ZL for dmg easy aswell
ancient pecan
noelle also has a battery requirement no?
yep, but she can swap freely so she can make better use of short cd batteries like geo mc or ning compared to itto
turbid dagger
Gorou can also be built for crit safely with EoSF and Fav Bow.
reef stump
noelle also has a battery requirement no?
Noelle runs 140% ER and her uptime is adjusted to leave time for Supports. Terra gave me a clip which I based the Noelle Calc on
ancient pecan
just build 4p exile gorou 
turbid dagger
Since his buffs scale off the number of Geo, not his own stats.
ancient pecan
it's not like his damage matters anyways
reef stump
Albedo is generally not irreplacable
I'd argue ZL is harder to replace properly
But ALbedo alternatvies certainly all come with their own little drawbacks in contrast to Albedo's simplicity and extremely low field time
turbid dagger
Yeah, no one else has such easy shield uptime. Xinyan's shield has good uptime but is like paper, Thoma can't work with Itto.
ancient pecan
geo VV + comfy shield + pillar resonance is certainly pretty strong
iirc benny was close to gorou c0 for itto
have you considered a more traditional comp with benny + ZL + another geo battery?
instead of the def scaler comp with albedo and gorou
patent galleon
whats the range of zhongli's resonance again? is it 3 including his pillar, or 4?
C0 zhongli
reef stump
This is very preliminary, so take with a huge grain of salt:
But if we look at this. ZL is not using Q here, just resonating with Albedo Flower and Ushi. His shred is 9.5% more dmg for the whole Team. So he does 150k himself + 110k via his shred, which basically makes him provide as much dmg as Albedo, while being the crucial shielder aswell
ancient pecan
ADC ZL? 
reef stump
Yes
ancient pecan
reef stump
HDC is only 5% lower though
turbid dagger
ADC? I'm bad with TLAs.
ancient pecan
geo dps ZL finally getting some love
reef stump
ATK/Dmg/Crit Artifact Mainstats
Itto ZL comps tend to run a soft microwave on the side
which makes ZLs dmg potential non-negligible
whole juniper
The reasons I want Itto are that he seems fun and satisfying to play with the stacks and charge attacks, and that he'll be a tanky carry which will help my stuttery launch-ps4 gameplay. I wouldn't really feel satisfied building Noelle (plus she's not c6 and might not be even after pulling Albedo). My alternatives are probably more in line with pulling Eula or just waiting instead. Would Eula be a ton better than Itto with my lack of Albedo/ZL?
turbid dagger
No, yeah, you should get Itto. I wasn't being that serious about just using Noelle. I do think she's a lot easier to build a team around, but it's just... definitely save up for Zhongli after if you can.
whole juniper
ZL has been my plan since forever basically :p I missed out on him the first time around, but having that shield would make my gameplay so much comfier it's crazy
reef stump
The reasons I want Itto are that he seems fun and satisfying to play with the st...
I'd generally not recommend Eula over Itto. She doesn't seem stronger inherently and faces similar problems on the surface.
I haven't looked too much into Itto Comps that have neither ZL nor Albedo, but I have little doubt they will exist in playable form
turbid dagger
I wonder if there's another low field time you can use in an Itto/Gorou/ZL team...
reef stump
Itto/Gorou/Fischl/Beidou might be something for instance
whole juniper
I'd generally not recommend Eula over Itto. She doesn't seem stronger inherently...
Sounds great, ty
Oh yeah Beidou IS an old character I am intrigued by, she seems fun to build
turbid dagger
Yeah, Beidou and Fischl will ensure crystallize gets proc'd so even when Beidou's shield gets broken, Gorou should pull in the elemental shields with some decent consistency, right?
reef stump
Beidou's C1 fields a shield and her dmg reduction helps sustain it, while also enablign Crystallize
whole juniper
I hate Fischl's guts, but I guess I could use her
reef stump
Itto comps are rough on her energy demands, but its still doable
turbid dagger
Yae might end up being a Fischl replacement, if rumors are true, but massive grain of salt there.
whole juniper
I do like Diona a lot tho. Shouldn't she be good with Itto? Shield, easy crystallize, and heals for when I inevitably get fps-stutter when stuff attacks and I end up half-dead
turbid dagger
'Cause it's like 99% speculation that she's a 5* Fischl at this point. lol
Really hoping though
reef stump
I do like Diona a lot tho. Shouldn't she be good with Itto? Shield, easy crystal...
Diona shield uptime is a little sus for Itto and her ele app for Crystallize is quite bad aswell. But its one of the better shiedl options beyond ZL
whole juniper
With my current Ning team, I'm pretty much constantly shielded between Diona shield and crystallize
ancient pecan
diona should be pretty good for triple geo itto comps without ZL
fills the healer slot and has a shield to get geo resonance started
beidou can also work if you only care about crystallize and want more damage
turbid dagger
Scratch that. Xinyan has no ICD with her DoT.
She's perfect for applying pyro for crystallize reactions.
ancient pecan
yep
she's a good pyro enabler and OL trigger 
turbid dagger
Build her as burst DPS. Her own shield will break, but who cares?
Her burst damage at C2 is crazy 'cause 100% crit.
whole juniper
I do want some healing on the team tho, but isn't there a Gorou cons that makes him heal?
turbid dagger
C4 does, yeah.
Scales based on 50% of his DEF and ticks every 1.5s.
Active character only.
storm tulip
Xinyan would provide decent pyro app for crystallize, wouldn't she?
only her last pyro application matters
since the requirement for it to happen is having a shield up either way
reef stump
But shieldbot Xinyan might still be valid for Itto
Gorou helps buffing her shield up quite a bit
ancient pecan
and she can use 4p ToM to buff itto and her shield even more
whole juniper
Would Xinyan be better than Diona then?
reef stump
For instance, yeah
their shield durations are the same
So not sure if one is really better over the other
ancient pecan
just use c1+ beidou with 4p EoSF and 200% ER
reef stump
just use c1+ beidou with 4p EoSF and 200% ER <:B_SmolZhongli:856492583055786004>
Thats is very valid actually
whole juniper
I do have c1+ Beidou. Itto/Gorou/Beidou/?
reef stump
Since Beidou offers damage reduction on top and is good for Crystallize
turbid dagger
Would Xinyan be better than Diona then?
Xinyan has an easier time proc'ing crystallize, but idk.
turbid dagger
Like, you'll probably get an elemental shield refreshed right before Xinyan's shield breaks.
ancient pecan
I do have c1+ Beidou. Itto/Gorou/Beidou/?
albedo if you have him, fischl if you don't
with fischl you can lower beidou's ER a little bit
reef stump
I'd also say Shieldfei, but funding her might be scary in Triple Geo
In VV Tao she has atleast some Pyro particles floating around
ancient pecan
also if you with the 2x geo 2x electro comp you can give gorou 4p petra to boost the electro side
storm tulip
But shieldbot Xinyan might still be valid for Itto
yeah for sure, if you keep it up the whole time the crystallize at the end will give you the remainder of shield time too
reef stump
Itto/Geo/Fish/Beidou might be the most stable Double Geo setup feasible atm
ancient pecan
it's kinda funny, that's one of noelle's classic comps
whole juniper
Better than Itto/Gorou/Ning you think?
reef stump
Better than Itto/Gorou/Ning you think?
Hard to say, especially since Beidou is a situational character
If you added ZL to that I'd tend to say the Quad Geo given you cna microwave
ancient pecan
yea, but her c1 shield + dmg resist + some decent aoe dmg makes her kinda good for the flex spot
whole juniper
ZL is not an option for a few months at least
storm tulip
I think the biggest reason to do double geo setup (apart from not having zhongli/albedo) would just be itto/zhong/kazuha/bennet for grouping
turbid dagger
He might rerun in 2.4. You never know.
whole juniper
Kazuha also not an option.
storm tulip
venti over kazuha if itto can hit them but I doubt ushi would be able to
whole juniper
I kinda hope he doesn't actually - will need to save up 180 pulls before I can get him
reef stump
ZL is not an option for a few months at least
Leaks suggest him coming back in 2.4
And like Enkanomiya
will have a lot of Primos
whole juniper
Might be possible then yeah, we'll see
storm tulip
also lantern rite
ancient pecan
if he comes in 2.4 i hope i get lucky during itto's banner 
really want ZL's c1
turbid dagger
If he comes in 2.4, I might have to skip unfortunately. Even though I do want ZL.
whole juniper
Good thing is I can just throw all my pulls on Itto's banner anyway for maximum Gorou cons, since the pity carries over anyway
turbid dagger
Really depends on what Miko's kit ends up being.
reef stump
2.4 is save up Patch for me, I have ZL and Ganyu, so yeah
turbid dagger
Also really would depend on whether not rerun was the first or second banner.
patent galleon
leaks say shenhe comes first
storm tulip
yeah and we might also get 3 banners
reef stump
leaks say shenhe comes first
Leaks also said 4 Banners, so that might not mean much
patent galleon
but yeah 2.4 is a skip for me as well, i have Ganyu/Xiao/and Zhongli
turbid dagger
But almost definitely 3.
patent galleon
We're not getting 4.
people doubted the double rerun for 2.3 so.....
reef stump
Shenhe/ZL/Ganyu/Xiao and I could see it for Lantern Rite
storm tulip
I really dont see yoimiya not running in 2.4 though if zhong also does
all the normal attack and single target shilling
between yunjin and abyss buffs
it is so Sus
patent galleon
and yeah Lantern Rite is a big deal for CN, so i could see 4 banners
ancient pecan
we've had 3 short banners in one update before
remember hu tao's first banner
turbid dagger
No, I do not.
ancient pecan
it was... someone i don't remember 
, then keqing and then hu tao
instead of the usual 2 banners
reef stump
No, I do not.
First Lantern Rite was 3 2 week Banners, Xiao/Keqing/Hu Tao
reef stump
Altohugh a lot of that was that death is a forbidden topic during chinese new year
so they couldn't run HT during that
turbid dagger
They do the same thing but instead, it's 1/2/2 short banners?
patent galleon
it could happen
reef stump
I'd jsut expect 2 Double Banners
ancient pecan
anything can happen 
reef stump
given that we now have Double Banners
storm tulip
They do the same thing but instead, it's 1/2/2 short banners?
that is what I'm thinking, either that or just 1/2
turbid dagger
Yeah, but they talked about double banners specifically for reruns.
ancient pecan
i would expect shenhe to have her own banner though, considering she is the new character
exactly
patent galleon
id expect Xiao/Ganyu at least, since they are both due for reruns. and it fits the event/theme
storm tulip
xiao/ganyu are a given since they are featured with shenhe on the event screen
reef stump
Do i need to lv10 all three of itto’s talents?
Need is a harsh word but E is pretty significant dmg aswell
cyan prism
So three of them effect to overall dmg that i can leave none at lv1 ? 🥺
cyan prism
Need is a harsh word but E is pretty significant dmg aswell
Tysm
sharp sinew
9/8/9 should be good if you ask me
rigid bay
Just do 10/10/10 and enjoy unga bunga 
I won't be surprised if ZL had a rerun in any case, it is his country's festival again in 2.4, and there has been just enough space for him to have a rerun much like Childe's 2nd rerun last time.
real phoenix
9/8/9 should be good if you ask me
should be all the same tbh
reef stump
E is like 20-25% of his dmg or so, varies a bit on the weapon and Cons. Has a lower prio than AA and Q, but shouldn't be neglected
real phoenix
ig so
Ushi does as much damage as 3 slashes, and you throw him out twice during ult so 6 slashes worth of damage on 2 Es, so i think that warrants itto needing all talents leveled equally lol, but ig for the order you should level them its NA ≥ Q > E
i've still yet to crown a single thing
patent galleon
It’s super expensive to triple crown, but I figure for carries that aren’t able to melt/vape/useVV it helps to push them as much as I can.
Plus I really enjoy Xiao and Itto looks to be similarly fun in terms of gameplay.
But it takes forever to get enough books for it
red umbra
guys how do you increase your chances for good hood pieces
frigid hound
guys how do you increase your chances for good hood pieces
By max refreshing everyday
More runs= more chances hopefully
patent galleon
💸
rigid bay
i dont have enough of his boss mats
Imagine not having enough boss mats and crowns saved already 
The only thing I'm lacking is R5 SS, I only got R4 for this patch.
Obviously triple crowning him, because it's a celebration.
For being the first 5 star DPS of my loved element.
red umbra
aside from gorou any predictions on itto banner?
analog obsidian
Barbara 
patent galleon
Sara/Barbara
rigid bay
I mean, the only thing by this point that you could really guarantee is that whoever is on Albedo's banner right now won't be in the next
outer jacinth
Sara for Yae’s banner
rigid bay
Personally I wouldn't want Sara on Itto's banner, because I have literally 0 use of her
At least Benny and Noelle is already out of the mix so that's two characters that I already have C6 not going to be with Itto
red umbra
I'm REALLY coping and hoping that barbara won't be on itto's banner
rigid bay
Sadly, that might happen
analog obsidian
Barbara is gonna be more easier to be in banners now coz double banner
rigid bay
eh I mean
double banner doesnt change anything
double banner features the same 4 star for both of them anyway.
Based on past analytic, 4 star characters often have an almost guaranteed rerun if it has been 7 patches since their last appearance, with both Xiangling and Noelle holding the record of having 8 patches without them. This number will continue to increase as more 4 stars are introduced, but not relevant in this case.
Most commonly, characters have a rerun by the time they have been absent from banners for 6 patches. And two such characters that fulfill said criteria is... Barbara and Fischl.
somber sandal
i have enough for 9/8/10
But also getting some more to either 10 normals, or just 10/8/9, or be the first triple crown of my account.
they wouldn't but, it'd be nice if double electro.
Might be sara barb
Yanfei chong ning made no sense for tartag
rigid bay
Sara last appearance was 3 banners ago, so I wouldn't count it, but yeah
somber sandal
For the new releases, they come back soon
rigid bay
In that sense, Sayu would be due to come first
Because Sayu was released before Sara was.
somber sandal
It should be sara, most people need another shot at cons
turbid dagger
Every new 4* until Sara was rerun within 4 banners until Sara.
turbid dagger
So, Sara is probable. They likely held off 'cause she's relevant to Itto's story.
somber sandal
Well just character connections
rigid bay
Well, we'll just have to see how it goes anyhow
somber sandal
Ye
turbid dagger
It's extremely unlikely that Sara won't be on Itto's banner.
Like, the chances are incredibly small.
somber sandal
Yea timing and all
rigid bay
I mean it's mihoyo so
rigid bay
Hope is the last thing you'd wanna be putting on them for a bet
rigid bay
Yes, lol.
turbid dagger
Not really hope. I'd prefer it not be Sara on Itto's banner, but again, 4/5 newly released 4*s were rerun within 4 banners of release. Sara is the sole exception. The best explanation is that she was delayed for thematic reasons, 'cause she's associated with Itto and important to his backstory.
So, it's like 99% here.
rigid bay
Meh, so do I here. Really have no use for Sara in any shape or form
But well, then again, here I am,
with a Xinyan C6.
turbid dagger
I want Fischl too, but she won't be there in all likelihood. 😦
rigid bay
What can I say.
lucid crown
Actually fischl might appear
rigid bay
I would have loved XQ and Chongyun but considering they had recent appearance, I wouldn't count too much on it.
lucid crown
Fischl is a good off field applicator so it would make sense on itto and gorou banner
turbid dagger
It would, but miHoYo goes theme > meta.
lucid crown
Fischl cause bow
rigid bay
I mean, with Noelle and Xiangling both having 8 banners before reappearance, it's not an impossibility for them to go one more banner without them appearing up.
As the number of absence will continue to increase as the cast increases.
red umbra
how many banners since barbara's last run?
rigid bay
7
turbid dagger
lucid crown
Same as fischl iirc
somber sandal
Since she was a launch unit
rigid bay
Fischl too, yes.
turbid dagger
Noelle had gone the longest without a rerun until this banner. lol
rigid bay
Barbara can earnestly fuck off because I've had her C6 since ancient times honestly.
somber sandal
BASED
red umbra
personally I'd hope for fischl + sara over sara + barbara in itto banner
lucid crown
man itto gourou fischl and barbara seems so good
red umbra
since barb is also in shop this month
turbid dagger
personally I'd hope for fischl + sara over sara + barbara in itto banner
They're not gonna run two electro and two Geo.
lucid crown
shop is a set pattern lol
rigid bay
Noelle had gone the longest without a rerun until this banner. lol
Actually, Xiangling was the first to go on longest absence.
lucid crown
they dont base banners of that shit
somber sandal
They're not gonna run two electro and two Geo.
They could do, but they finna not
turbid dagger
Fischl's in the shop next month. Maybe they are like, "safe to skip."
rigid bay
She was also 8 banners gone without her before Noelle was.
So with Noelle following suite, I'm sure most others will too eventually.
turbid dagger
Actually, Xiangling was the first to go on longest absence.
I wasn't saying she had the record, but I can definitely see there are two ways to read what I said.
lucid crown
cough ocean hued clam
rigid bay
lucid crown
**might be a good opportunity to ** promote the new artifacts mhy
turbid dagger
I just really hope it's XQ on Itto's banner by some miracle.
lucid crown
i mean she can use it
lucid crown
I just really hope it's XQ on Itto's banner by some miracle.
nah itll just be copy/paste of raiden banner but gorou
turbid dagger
Probably. lol
But losers were saying that this banner would be a Raiden copy and it wasn't.
I would have Sucrose over Barbara any day.
lucid crown
they couldnt do that with the double banner
turbid dagger
I have C2 Barbara and I've never pulled on a banner where she was rate up.
red umbra
Me patiently waiting for mihoyo to release an anemo dmg/crit dmg buffing unit
lucid crown
Imagine bennet but increases crit dmg
rigid bay
personally fischl would be both good n bad for me on this banner
lucid crown
as a five star
red umbra
I just really hope it's XQ on Itto's banner by some miracle.
I'd be fine with Xq on itto banner
lucid crown
xq is not being rerun, too good
red umbra
I'd rather get starglitter than cons of a useless characer
red umbra
doubel geo + half a taser comp lol
lucid crown
ngl i want albedo but itto kinda looking amazing
turbid dagger
How many Gorou cons I go for really depends on what other 4*s run.
rigid bay
doubel geo + half a taser comp lol
ah yes, police taser made of earth
Personally im going balls to the walls for Itto C2 so hopefully i can net myself C6 Gorou
Yunjin is rumoured to be included in free char list selection on lantern rite so thank god for that
static mural
ground deep
lucid crown
Klee banner but gorou 💀
red umbra
I'm not sure who to get for lantern rite selction
lucid crown
get yunjin
static mural
i hope i get c6 gorou in 90 pulls honestly
red umbra
I have c2 XL c1 Beidou
lucid crown
yeah lol no
red umbra
and if yunjin is confirmed as well
lucid crown
genshin never lets that happen
rigid bay
i hope i get c6 gorou in 90 pulls honestly
You'll need some good luck for that tbh, but heres hoping
eh i did get razor to c6 in like
that amount of pull tbf
static mural
yeah i know. i did get 5 razors in 60 pulls
lucid crown
I got to c5 razor on kazuha banner but shshshshsh
rigid bay
RAZOR GOOD BOI
ancient pecan
it took me ~120 pulls to get rosaria
ancient pecan
i would be surprised if i get gorou before itto tbh
rigid bay
#GoodBoiBuff when
red umbra
I blew my pity on albedo and am at 57 wishes rn so the most im hoping for is like a c1-c2 Gorou
rigid bay
gratz on ur
static mural
im satisfied at c2 as well but i can dream
rigid bay
C20 Barbara
red umbra
C20 Barbara
turbid dagger
Albedo in 77 pulls was a relief. I was legit gonna like... pull until I got him until the banner ended. lol
Winning 50/50 makes my life so much easier.
ancient pecan
yea
but sometimes that 50/50 feels like 10/90 ngl
static mural
im on 50 50 for itto help
turbid dagger
Agreed.
ancient pecan
just 9 more days
turbid dagger
It's so weird to think I'm gonna go from running 0 Geo for an entire patch to running triple Geo.
rigid bay
imagine not already running 6 man geo team on abyss 
lucid crown
no one ran geo before this cause crystalize
turbid dagger
It was actually 'cause of crystal eyes.
turbid dagger
imagine not already running 6 man geo team on abyss <:A_HmmTao:79109364156530688...
Imagine running 6 Geo characters when there's only 5 in the game.
rigid bay
Imagine running 6 Geo characters when there's only 5 in the game.
yes its me
'geo' main
ancient pecan
i'm going from 2 to 3-4 geo after 2.3
turbid dagger
static mural
imagine hydro mains lol
turbid dagger
Hydro's gonna be the least common element once the next banner hits.
ancient pecan
just wait for ayato 
sharp sinew
Will 70:180 be a good crit ratio for the Oni?
turbid dagger
rigid bay
Will 70:180 be a good crit ratio for the Oni?
pretty solid already, yes
turbid dagger
My ideal is that Gorou reruns in 2.5 on Yae's banner.
turbid dagger
static mural
ayato then
turbid dagger
2.5 probably Ayato and Yae.
lucid crown
forever
static mural
i know ayatos coming
go ayato go
sharp sinew
Ayato will have huge ICD
rigid bay
Speaking of which
Banner swap happens at 6PM for second banner, right?
I'm making countdown timer for all three regions atm
static mural
in asia it does yeah
turbid dagger
What timezone/region?
rigid bay
for asia its 6pm your time, ik for a fact
im not sure about EU and NA
its the same i guess?
cause there is obviously delay
static mural
asia will get itto first
turbid dagger
Which is 7PM EST.
static mural
then a few hours after for na/eu
turbid dagger
NA is like 13 hours later.
turbid dagger
No, less. 'Cause maintenance is the same time on all servers, meaning Asia gets Itto for 13 hours longer.
rigid bay
oh wait, but aint banner 'expiry' is different?
since asia banner disappear way earlier
for 2nd banner
turbid dagger
Oh, does it?
Idk. I'm not in Asia.
Man, wonder who'd I'd play Genshin with if I still lived in Asia and started on the Asia server instead. lol
turbid dagger
I have a friend who would love to have that account.
He started just for Klee, pulled, couldn't get her, quit. Saw Sayu, started again, pulled, didn't get her. Quit again. lol
rigid bay
lol meanwhile my one asia friend
sharp sinew
There won't be a patch tho?
turbid dagger
There won't be a patch tho?
We're talking end of Itto banner now.
rigid bay
quit, return, pull 10, gets featured char, quit, return, pull 10, gets featured
deadass man got xiao hutao kaz raiden
turbid dagger
Tf
rigid bay
oh ayaka too but yeah
swear to god the rate for returning player is spiked or something lol
but yeah corin for ur time, banner swap at 4PM as in
1st banner disappear i assume?
and 2nd banner appear at 6
turbid dagger
I mean. That's when the second banner goes live for me.
turbid dagger
I know it's 4PM on a Tuesday 'cause I'm always halfway through a D&D session when it happens, and those are Tuesdays at 2-6PM for me. lol
But that's Pacific time.
static mural
rigid bay
Oh paimon moe
static mural
finally got to playtest 3geo gorou, he runs 193er in there and id really recommend to overshoot past 220er honestly
atomic sundial
ohhh
turbid dagger
finally got to playtest 3geo gorou, he runs 193er in there and id really recomme...
I think my Gorou concept was already gonna aim for that 'cause I was gonna go Fav Bow + ER sands + EoSF.
unique rover
Imagine not having enough boss mats and crowns saved already <:E_PoliwhirlConcer...
Boss mats as in weekly boss mats
rigid bay
Boss mats as in weekly boss mats<:E_PoliwhirlConcern:793960306882773003>
Ya mean signora's heart? i got that covered too 
dream solvent BAYBEEEEE
unique rover
i just like hoarding them
whole juniper
What’s solvent?
red umbra
weekly boss drop that can be used to convert weekly boss talent ascension to a different kind
sharp sinew
How many Riftborn Regalias does Itto need?
analog obsidian
48
sharp sinew
Thanks
sharp sinew
12 more to go
sharp sinew
Here's the full amount of everything you need to maximize him
How about mora?
sharp sinew
I'm 5 million short
rigid bay
That's cool, just build em up slowly
Half the fun is to use him to build him up along the way
I mean obviously I already have everything and 20m mora to spare as well so muhahaha
The one that consumes the most mora are his skills so I'm sure you can get his level and some basic skill levels up in no time
sharp sinew
How much mora does a char need to get to 90
rigid bay
How much mora does a char need to get to 90
420k from Lv.1 to LV.90, as far as I'm concerned
analog obsidian
Isn't that just from ascension
rigid bay
Yeah its been
ELEVEN months since i leveled anyone
so im definitely forgetting something here
teal sable
i have everything ready to lvl 90 him on day 1, and give him a build
all he needs is redhorn. without it I'll have like 105cdmg
azure salmon
sorry if you guys have been getting this a lot but whiteblind r5 or serpent spine r1?
reef stump
sorry if you guys have been getting this a lot but whiteblind r5 or serpent spin...
Serpent Spine, weapon comparison is also pinned
azure salmon
shoot mb, also ty!
slim compass
Aight I just found this thread..
This was probably asked before, but is Itto-Gorou-Zhongli likely to be stronger than Eula-Raiden-Zhongli?
sharp sinew
I don't think so
reef stump
in terms of personal dmg Itto can be quite significantly ahead of Eula, but I don't have Eula Team Calcs to compare to my Itto Team approximations
slim compass
Oh ok, would you run a team like Itto Raiden gorou Zhongli, using Raiden for battery and sub-dps? Or just use fischl instead?
reef stump
Oh ok, would you run a team like Itto Raiden gorou Zhongli, using Raiden for bat...
Raiden takes too much field time. Ideal would be Albedo, but can also be GMC, Ning, Fischl, Bennett and sub dps units that need little field time
slim compass
Ok thanks!
But essentially just purely looking at the multiplier, Itto would have more dps than Eula I guess?
That's calculated with both characters in their burst?
wheat karma
i have 3 crowns rn, what would be worth to use on itto?
analog obsidian
Normal atk
turbid dagger
Probably AA and Q.
analog obsidian
E does the most dmg but aa and q is more consistent
languid linden
its true atk stat while itto burst is not changed?
turbid dagger
There's a good chance his Q snapshots the ATK buff he gets from his DEF, because that's how it works with Noelle, but there's no reason why you can't raise ATK itself even if that's the case.
atomic sundial
he adds a percentage of his def stat to his atk
turbid dagger
It's just that raising his DEF after his burst is activated might not raise his ATK.