Itto Thread

[red umbra]

if u play xiao there's an argument maybe

[muted arrow]

well

if in the future double carry comps become meta

a sub dps like albedo with 0 field time makes sense

[red umbra]

thats true but quite a big if to be assessing pull value on

[muted arrow]

yea

[reef stump]

Geo Tao would just be a comfy option, yeah.

With regards to Itto himself my primary concern isn't evne a comparison to Xiao/Tao or whoever of the Meta carries yet

I have the man losing to Noelle on paper rn

[red umbra]

tbf

[alpine crown]

btw you asked me about the claim i made the other day; turns out i accidentally gave itto too many normals

[red umbra]

post 2.3 noelle is a very different proposition to current noelle

so losing to noelle sounds a lot worse than it is

[reef stump]

Noelle is getting a huge upgrade, yeah

[alpine crown]

I still have him winning against noelle using SC5+N4+SC5+2*E, but by a small margin

[red umbra]

that said it still raises huge question marks re value

[reef stump]

But why the hell would I pull for Itto who has no utility when I can run C6 Noelle who is shielder and healer on top with insanely flexible rotations

[red umbra]

and like noelle has heals and aoe

[alpine crown]

ya for sure

[red umbra]

massive aoe

[alpine crown]

but itto looks cool lmao

[muted arrow]

true but realistically right now to boost noelle you need c6 gorou, and there is no scenario where you get that without getting itto I think

so the question "is itto worth if I have noelle?" must be seen in perspective

rn

[reef stump]

You won't get C6 Gorou w/o Itto, no

But you also don't get C6 Gorou w/o C2 Itto realistically

same story as with Sara

where currently C0 Raiden + C6 Sara isn't really a thing

but will become eventually

So C0 Itto havers don't have access to C6 Gorou either

or only a tiny fraction

[muted arrow]

yeah

[reef stump]

And then you can argue get C0-C3 Gorou and run that for now

[muted arrow]

just speaking about the itto - noelle comparison specfically

there is no "is it worth pulling for itto" if you go for gorou hard, coz you're getting him regaedless

[red umbra]

fuck man the more i think about it tho itto being even close to noelle is pretty rough to think about

noelle literally has heals shield and absurd aoe

while itto is a specialized damage dealer with smaller aoe

[tribal osprey]

Remmeber we dont know enough

[red umbra]

yeah that's true it is very much a hypothetical atm

[tribal osprey]

So keep the theorising conservative

Gnight imma bedge

[red umbra]

[reef stump]

Thats true, but you can still just run Noelle and bench Itto if he wasn't worth it

Given though, that the Beta Build Buffs weren't pushed to the Beta Servers

I'm moderately optimistic we will see some more Itto changes down the line

[muted arrow]

buffs are real

almost surely

[reef stump]

I don't think they were fake but the might get expanded if they didn't push the build

[reef stump]

or maybe they noticed that buffing only NAs by 25% might brick his gameplay

[muted arrow]

CA buff by 25%

now we're talking

[reef stump]

If the Buffs are jsut delayed, thats also fine

still a bit more damage

7% or so

[alpine crown]

buffing his NAs seemed weird tbh

they made special charged attacks for him, why buff his normals

[muted arrow]

giga buff for phys itto

[reef stump]

I got pure NA combos super close to CA combos with the Buffs in terms of MV

A4 will push CA ahead but still

[muted arrow]

I'm super curious about his stagger

wouldn't be surprised if he launches opponents towards the moon

[reef stump]

full on ragdoll on his SCA combo

[muted arrow]

built in overload type of stagger

[reef stump]

Guess I'm gonna revert the current sheet and make a copy for the Buffs

so that I can work with the updated combos anyway

[dapper bramble]

is this the numbers we get in current calc rn?

[fickle lance]

that seems high

[reef stump]

50k Itto Slashes with 3.5k ATK sounds like brutal crit fishing or cap. I get 33.5k avg with 90/230 4k ATK T10 Itto

[fickle lance]

yea you're probably looking at 30-35K avg at the high end

with gorou buff and r5 spine

[nocturne sorrel]

i don't get why we need leakers to post damage numbers when we have all the mvs and a half dozen different calcs that all work

[fickle lance]

eh a lot of the more casual players can't be bothered to find calcs

[nocturne sorrel]

for how little context they're providing, they could give literally any damage number and justify it by fudging levels/gear/buffs invovled

[reef stump]

I feel like this is another Yoimiya doing 70k NAs story

where it is indeed possible and might've happened but involves gear levels or other outside factors that just don't apply to 99% of the playerbase

I have no doubts some super cracked whaled out Itto will do 50k+ Kesagiri Slashes

But no way is that gonna be a generally accessible number

[onyx junco]

honey gave itto the buffs again it seems

[hasty quail]

I'm gonna assume then that they know he's going to be getting the buffs next week (prob from their own insider)

[nocturne sorrel]

good thing i never undid yesterday's buffs on my calc

[reef stump]

Didn't roll the changes back either, yet

Guess I can just continue working with the changes then

Time for viable NA only combos

[red umbra]

how much better was post buff itto than pre buff

in ur calcs

[nocturne sorrel]

around 5%, depending on the combo

his normals increased by 25% but they weren't a big part of combos

[reef stump]

I get around 6%, same story basically

[red umbra]

figures

the biggest buff was the cost drop anyways

[reef stump]

In practice likely, yeah

although thats not visible in sheets atm

[red umbra]

yea

[reef stump]

so it doesn't really improve his current otulook much in that regard

[nocturne sorrel]

redhorn buff is another 7% on top

[reef stump]

R1 Redhorn only catches up to R5 SS with that though, 2% ahead or so

[nocturne sorrel]

yup

[onyx junco]

how is he looking compared to noelle now?

[reef stump]

Under ideal circumstances in a vacuum Noelle wins with 4x N4D and ties with 5x N3D for my Calcs

[nocturne sorrel]

vs what itto combo

[reef stump]

Q -> N4 -> SCA5D -> E -> N2SCA3

Is what my Calc currently uses

I'm in the process of updating the combo options with newer frame counts, so damage might improve with a newer combo

[nocturne sorrel]

that's probably on the low end of what itto can do

can't really help it though, just like with raiden it'll take a few days after release to figure out what optimal combos are

[reef stump]

Its definitely conservative

I settled on 3x N3C for Raiden initially based on frames and in the end she got a N1C on top

[nocturne sorrel]

3x N3C is still a pretty good measure for real combat where you might have to do a dash or two

[reef stump]

If combat is disruptive thats true, yeah

[nocturne sorrel]

so same for itto, we can use a conservative estimate and say you can probably squeeze in 20% more damage if you really try

[reef stump]

My original take on Itto was: Q -> E -> N3 -> SCA4D -> N3 -> SCA4D -> E

which is optimistic for current frames but not completely out of whack either

E is hypervaluable doing the damage of 3.5 Slashes while only taking the time of 1.5 Slashes while also generating Stacks

[nocturne sorrel]

yea

[reef stump]

So I'd look out for combo's using E as much as possible

[nocturne sorrel]

also his N3 looks much better than N4

last hit is really slow

[reef stump]

Its slow and E also overcaps stacks

so no point in doing N4 if you use E

MV/s wise N4 seems fine, but it eats a lot of time you'd rather spend doing other things

I was planning to do iterate over combos assuming a 12-13s window, given that we have so preliminary hitlag counts for his SCA combos

And see where that leads

[muted arrow]

the problem is not that itto is underwhelming compared to noelle

he does more damage in a much shorter duration rotation if you count just their windows. The issue is that the current geo team doesn't look constructed to benefit from such a thing

if itto's damage was diluted to a 15 seconds window for him the rest of the geo team would still deal the exact same damage

that's the big issue here

actually I wouldn't be surprised if he had some of the highest dps relative to specific character rotation

but again, if nothing is happening in the remaining 7-8 seconds of team rotation this generates no advantage over a character like noelle

but it's clear that the direction they're taking with him is a hypercarry of the highest degree with near 100% field time thanks to c2, but idk how practical that is

although I'd definitely say it has more uses than most people are giving it credit for

what if with c2 you can run just 2 geo and be fine for itto energy gen?

then the team possibilities expand

oh wait u still need 3 for gorou nvm

but still I think having a quick burst reset can really help

@reef stump about c2, let's say you can fit two itto bursts in a 30s rotation, how do you think things are looking

second burst not buffed by gorou ofc

or can you still buff it with gorou's E

@pearl bone you too

[reef stump]

You're forgetting hitlag extension and cast time. Itto's Q cast was somewhere along the lines of 1.5s to 2s, whereas hitlag extension will likely lead to around 13s Q windows. So in effect he has 15s field time.

[ionic cape]

the changes are real told you

[reef stump]

For Noelle the situation is a bit different since she has a theoretical 100% Q uptime but can also switch freely. And I accounted for her Q cast time aswell, so its not like I'm attributing to her combos that span 15-17s of actual Noelle swinging. Terra also provided me some footage to confirm the combo possibilities within a roughly 20s rotation.

[muted arrow]

q cast is that long?

[reef stump]

Jrm.Spirits has 80-100 frames for it

so about 1.5s

[muted arrow]

oh thought it was shorter

ic

[reef stump]

And for Itto C2 to do anything

a lot of boxes need to be checked

especially now with 18/70

He needs his energy back asap, no time for funneling a bunch

Recasting Buffs needs to be absurdly fast, which also means Gorou needs to have his Q back asap or alternate between E and Q which mgiht make Albedo suffer

And even if that is all working, you might still end up with a 18s rotation while skipping on recasting Albedo E and whatever your fourth slot does

[muted arrow]

yeah I was thinking standard rotation for first burst->gorou E -> second burst

[reef stump]

You kinda want a Gorou E at the evry start to immediately snapshot with Albedo

Gorou E -> Albedo E (Q) -> 4th slot -> Gorou Q -> Itto

[muted arrow]

yeah but it's 10s cd, it will reset even if you use it at the start

[reef stump]

yeah, it comes back anyway

but the question is if his Q comes back if you only have 1 E per 2 rotations

we're talking Geo not Raiden comps

Might need absurd ER on Gorou

[muted arrow]

it should be 2 E every Q with what I said

[muted arrow]

->gorou E -> itto Q, repeat of that one

[reef stump]

But then you need Q every rotation again

And also do full Support rotations again, which means that there is no way you get a sub 20s rot

[muted arrow]

it's not a sub 20 rotation, it's like a 30s + rotation

[reef stump]

Ah, so you mean E (Supports) Q Itto E Itto as a long ass rot

[muted arrow]

ye

[reef stump]

I'm a bit sceptical for energy with that tbh. You also don't get 2 Es per Q window as you might get normally and might be part of your energy requirements

You also sacrifice your 4th slot almsot entirely

[muted arrow]

hmm

[reef stump]

And if we roughly map that out

Lets say 5s till your first Itto Q

Then 15s of Itto

Then 2s of getting Gorou Buff back up

and then 15s of Itto

37s

[muted arrow]

yeah prob not enough damage from itto to justify it

[reef stump]

Yeah, likely. Just do another 5s of Supports properly

play a 21-22ish regular rotation

Unless energy is an overwhelming issue for Itto C2 is pretty much bait

If they cut his Q to Raiden length it could work

But tbh even with RaiFish getting a 18s rot is super tight

We could use the same mechanic Mhy uses for Ults nowdays. Just freeze all timers during Q cast animations

[tribal osprey]

In case you didnt know it was an option, xiao also has a similar issue

[reef stump]

Would also help ZLs Q not being worth casting etc.

[tribal osprey]

What we do is prefunnel

This might be worth considering, prefunneling energy

[reef stump]

Pre-funneling for Itto is only really helpful if he can't generate energy in his Burst. Otherwise his E is by far his highest MV/s option.

And afaik we don't have anything remotely as capable as Sucrose for Geo Supports

I mean, if it works, ofc, pre-funnel with another Support even if its only 2-3 Particles

[patent galleon]

i mean wouldnt gorou pre-funnel somewhat in a typical rotation? Gorou E->Itto Q

[reef stump]

If you start out with Gorou Q to snapshot Albedo

then you can use E for Itto

but that also means you can't use the C2 extension and mobile version of the Buff for Itto.

And if you QE you don't get to snapshot Albedo

[pearl bone]

i've thought of a few scenarios and can't make use of his C2, maybe fav Gorou and Albedo will magically be enough for Itto to do a buffless encore Q

think C2, C1, and the NA buff are just QoL for casual player gameplay

[reef stump]

I think Itto C1 has some merit as it enables doing extended combos out of the box with the help of E. Not a HT C1 but you can probably get 10-15% DPS out of it

[muted arrow]

hmm

you were saying NA and CA combos aren't all that different now tho

so if that's true does extending the CA string help that much anymore

[pearl bone]

what Itto does in Q doesnt matter anymore

[muted arrow]

what a bizarre change

[unique rover]

Won't itto be able to use 2 e

On the first rot atleast

[low valve]

does ittos cooldown change make c2 more valuable or does it make his rotations a lot more tight and strict given the less time?

[unique rover]

I think tighter, knowing that with c2 max stacks, the cd would be faster than his infusion

[muted arrow]

Don't see how his CA doesn't get buffed too if that's the case, it would be the most non sensical kit development in genshin history otherwise

and we got some fierce contenders

[reef stump]

His A4 will still pull CA combos ahead, but the difference is way too small

[unique rover]

Somewhat unnecessary actually, knowing u have to buff him again so u won't be able to use his q

[low valve]

so his c2 is only really valuable for energy now?

[unique rover]

Think so

[reef stump]

Even before the changes it was jsut energy

[pearl bone]

always has been

[reef stump]

doing a sensible Itto rot below 20s is basically impossible

[unique rover]

They really should change the cdr

[reef stump]

The changes made him stronger but he seems like a scuffed unit overall tbh. While still ofc somewhat speculative:

• Difference between builder and spender combos is incredibly small, completely voiding the point of the system
• High energy cost with an element notorious for low energy gen and relatively low funneling ability for a selfish unit
• Noelle seems performance wise way too close for being way more flexible with significant utility over the dmg stick that is Itto - and they fill identical slots in the same team.
• C2 does something he can't utilize
• His signature weapon is a SS sidegrade, while being specialized to him (and Noelle)

[nocturne sorrel]

i consider the first point to be a good thing

[reef stump]

I'm still optimistic that he might be able to do significantly better combos than assumed so far, but that doesn't solve the other issues

[nocturne sorrel]

having varied combos is its own reward, no need for specific ones to be way better

[ionic cape]

[reef stump]

There should be a reward for mastering Itto and not have random button mashing be just as good as well executed combos using his core mechanic

[nocturne sorrel]

it's not quite as good though, a small margin is fine

like raiden N5s versus any charge attack combo

[reef stump]

For Raiden there is no mechanic around CAs though. CAs aren't an integral part of her kit

CAs are Itto's primary gimmick

Thats as if Xiao plunges were roughly equal to him just swinging randomly

[nocturne sorrel]

CA being any improvement over NAs is already a massive upgrade from any other claymore user

honestly i'd rather xiao isn't so confined to plung spamming

there are a bunch of enemies where being midair screws up their AI

[unique rover]

They better buff his Cas idk so ppl would use it more

[nocturne sorrel]

and autoing during his ult is horrible damage

[unique rover]

I feel like if not, ppl would just use na strings

[reef stump]

Its not like this is an accident or gift, he is specifically meant ot have them be his core, just like Ganyu's CAs opposed to other Bow users.

[nocturne sorrel]

why would you not CA though, even if it's only a tiny bit better

his CA costs no stamina and is easy to do, you just hold attack

[reef stump]

In any case I'll iterate over some more combos to see how large the gap is, since MV ofc doesn't tell everything and I have some newer frame counts to work with

[unique rover]

With no stacks, he just slashes right

Or

[nocturne sorrel]

with no stacks he does a really slow slash

so just don't do that

err on the side of doing more NAs

[reef stump]

With no Stacks he does an incredibly slow slash thats basically jsut there to tell you that you messed up

[unique rover]

Is it a spin or just a slash

It's just a slash right

[real phoenix]

it's the final slash of all claymore CAs

[reef stump]

it looks like the final hit of regular Clamyore CAs

[unique rover]

So basically it's just there as an indicator

[reef stump]

But you never trigger that unless you initiate a CA with no Stacks

You can't accidentally transition into it

[frigid hound]

Its still the beta we might get some 2nd wave buff next week if something feels off on their testing

[real phoenix]

i mean, realizing he doesn't do his little teleport should be more than enough of an indicator you have no stacks

[unique rover]

I had these times when I used beidou to na and then she suddenly caa

Cas

[frigid hound]

Im just gonna for some kind beta tester to blunder and release an "E dmg clip"

[ionic cape]

[nocturne sorrel]

sticky controller button

[reef stump]

E is like throwing a truck

[muted arrow]

it doesn't make sense when one of those combos has to built up and is being highlighted as his main aspect

it's a design disaster

[frigid hound]

its like throwing a bull

[reef stump]

A supermassive Bull then

[ionic cape]

your actually right tbh

[unique rover]

Quite literally

[nocturne sorrel]

it's not like it's worse than NA right now

it's still better

[frigid hound]

Ushi is just built different

[nocturne sorrel]

you just want a bigger margin than i care for

[real phoenix]

his E did no damage when it failed to spawn

[low valve]

ushi does surprisingly high dmg

[nocturne sorrel]

CA isn't exactly a high effort combo so better by any amount is fine by me

[muted arrow]

it just makes really little sense, it's like if xiao's or Hutao's NA did almost as much as their plunge/CA

[reef stump]

If that thing just despawns if hurled into a Boss hitbox with no damage and possibly no particles, yikes

[real phoenix]

that's what it seems

[low valve]

geo construct issue

[nocturne sorrel]

that would make them less crippled in scenarios where you can't plunge/CA

[frigid hound]

Itto gonna have some steep er copium on boss floors

[low valve]

they should have made it a taunt instead like mona's or ganyus

so it could work on boss floors

[unique rover]

Itto's taunts right

[low valve]

yes

[muted arrow]

what is the scenario where you can't plunge?

[unique rover]

Childe e

[reef stump]

E can be like 20% of his total damage, if you just randomly lose that literally go play Noelle lol

[nocturne sorrel]

if you plunge against a ruin hunter it flies, if you plunge against kenki it dashes across the room

[frigid hound]

[nocturne sorrel]

lots of enemies have special AI when you're "out or reach", which includes being midair

[muted arrow]

doesn't seem to me it's been a big issue for xiao at all

for hu tao ig you're referring to stamina

but that's more of a natural ceiling on her dps at c0

the point is, itto's kit is designed to enable his CA from top to bottom

so if they can't outperform his NAs significantly that doesn't really make sense

[unique rover]

Correct

[reef stump]

enemy AI is definitely whack against vertical mobility. Ruin enemies in particular just go haywire

[low valve]

i mean right now his CA are still > NA right?

[reef stump]

Part of that is solved with a shield

[low valve]

theyre faster and have better scaling so id assume so

[reef stump]

In terms of MV it looks REALLY close right now, but his A4 will pull the CAs ahead

working on the Calcs for that, wanna optimize combos first

[real phoenix]

from the same video with the failed summon, Tap E @60fps is 33 frames straight into a dash too

[unique rover]

I made a sheet but it doesn't take account of cr, er, and substats

[reef stump]

33 is even faster than what you got before, but not with the Dash, so not sure

[nocturne sorrel]

if all else fails, just use itto as a GMC replacement for noelle

spam E for damage and energy

[unique rover]

Which it should not

[reef stump]

His E only does damage in Q

so using him as a copium battery is gonna net you no significant damage

[real phoenix]

33 is the true Tap E because there's an immediate input after it (the dash), the one at 30fps didn't have an input after so it was the full tap animation

[nocturne sorrel]

you can call up the mihoyo designers and tell them what itto should and shouldn't do

[reef stump]

But does tha guarantee you can also chain that into a NA that quickly?

[nocturne sorrel]

i'll work with whatever

[frigid hound]

Ngl since gorou has a summon it might not be a frontloaded particle gen

Same with itto

[real phoenix]

that we don't know

[frigid hound]

Not so much for this one

[reef stump]

I guess I can reduce E frames to 40, as a safety layer in case the NA/SCA transition is a bit slower than a dash

And if it turns out 33 works for both, then all the better

[ionic cape]

if throwing the cow gives energy is it a good one or not still?

about particle

[tribal osprey]

His summon doesnt deal dot

It should be like saras gen

[reef stump]

Would likely be preferable that it gives energy immediately. But at the end is ofc better than nothing at all

[ionic cape]

[frigid hound]

Ic ic

[pearl bone]

wait Itto E can fail?

[low valve]

same way zhong can i think

[frigid hound]

We are not sure just yet

But

It failed on the whopper clip

[unique rover]

Just taking account because it is a geo construct and it might not spawn, which may also mean it may not generate energy

[ionic cape]

my info doesn't give anything about itto particle gen so i dont know about that stuff

[frigid hound]

Just ask them do to an E and ask how many balls they got

[muted arrow]

wdym fail

[ionic cape]

[muted arrow]

doesn't it do damage on cast

[reef stump]

Should do dmg on impact from the description

[frigid hound]

Bear in mind that

[reef stump]

but haven't seen a clip yet for it actually doing any damage

[frigid hound]

That was waffel's clip

[muted arrow]

yea so theoretically even if it fails since you cast it on a boss it should still do damage excluding bugs

[muted arrow]

maybe bugged?

[frigid hound]

So it might just be a broken skill thing

[muted arrow]

that would be extremely weird

[unique rover]

Hopefully

[frigid hound]

Nah those clients have skill issue

[reef stump]

Private Server Builds are often disfunctional, so might very well be the case

[frigid hound]

Mostly not being complete in animations

So they try to gradually make it work

the same reason dim would sometimes say that aninamations are broken

And would reupload

[real phoenix]

it also failed to summon on the flying doggo boss, and even if there weren't any damage numbers, there was crystalize so we could tell if geo dmg hit. When it failed to summon there was no crystalize even tho the doggo had hydro applied to it

i'm scrubbing vids looking for Es

[low valve]

i mean if gmc does damage when his construct fails yeah itto should aswell

does ittos c1 change his rotation heavily?

[nocturne sorrel]

it lets you start with a CA combo, overall effect on dps is probably not much considering how close NAs are now

[reef stump]

It lets you start off with 5 Stacks, so you get a SCA combo frontloaded and you can do some big brain stuff with his E to get up to SCA8 out

[real phoenix]

his E realistically gives 3 stacks at the least right?

[low valve]

ooh, really?

you can gain stacks while CA-ing?

[reef stump]

2 minimum up to 5 if it gets smacked perfectly on icd

[reef stump]

Yeah, C1 gives you them in a staggered fashion, so if you couldn't gain them on the fly C1 wouldn't work well

[real phoenix]

i was assuming it gets hit at least once, but maybe that's giving too much to genshin's AI

[reef stump]

You just need to get a second Stack before you trigger the finisher to keep going

[low valve]

budget c6

[reef stump]

Against Ruin Guards and such absolutely, but small mobs might just get stunlocked to death by Itto

[nocturne sorrel]

just toss it onto a fire

max charges and a barbecue

[low valve]

beef

unfortunately no fires in spiral 😦

[reef stump]

Itto on burnign grass OP

gotta get Dendro and set the Bull on fire

Itto Dendro synergy confirmed

[real phoenix]

i just realized from all the videos of the failed summons, something pretty big honestly and Should be changed

a failed E summon does no damage, and also gives no stacks

[reef stump]

Lets hope thats an issue with the build and not intended to happen for real

Otherwise that will cripple Itto substantially in any situation where Geo constructs have issues

[real phoenix]

oceanid

[nocturne sorrel]

i haven't seen those, link?

[real phoenix]

across 3 videos, i found 4 failed summons

https://streamable.com/zurdij

this has one

#791659074253094933 message

this has 2

#791659074253094933 message

this has one

[reef stump]

Sac GS stonks

[frigid hound]

2 bull throw gaming

[nocturne sorrel]

80% of the time it works every tie

[frigid hound]

Just reset if it doesnt

[reef stump]

Need to throw that in the Calc

[nocturne sorrel]

geo quickswap with itto traveller and albedo, all atk scaling

and bennett

[ionic cape]

[reef stump]

Sadge, still loses despite the sweet combo

only 3% behind my current R5 WB calc though

[frigid hound]

[tribal osprey]

I mean, they seem to have made it an intended feature

Albedo and gorou are literally nothing without their constructs

[lethal shell]

only itto values were changed but not the weapon's cd?

[reef stump]

Also true. Although its not as crucial for Itto to have the construct remain on field. So I'd think it would be a bit sadistic if he missed on the on hit functionality of his E if it impacts on a surface where the construct immediately breaks.

[onyx junco]

tbh, albedo and zhongli constructs do damage even if they are cast and the construct spawns somewhere where it's instantly destroyed, dont about the particles tho

[reef stump]

My original runner up combo is back on the menu with newer frame counts, being roughly a 14% increase over the old combo beyond the Buffs he received

Depending on hitlag extension and stuff that combo can also get a bit stronger if his E gets hit

[sharp sinew]

Will Itto and Raiden work? Or is it massive copium?

[fickle lance]

Might work if you throw Beidou in there

And albedo

[iron apex]

How is itto dps compared to liyue trio?

[tribal osprey]

Dont compare dps like that

[iron apex]

Then how?

[ionic cape]

just dont

[orchid flume]

excuse me beidou?

[ionic cape]

and albedo

[ornate salmon]

why put two energy hungry units together

[ionic cape]

[ornate salmon]

actually it might work if the battery in question is raiden

but wouldnt putting gorou in there better?

[fickle lance]

Yeah raiden batteries

Albedo is nice since you might get some e uptime during both raiden and ittos on field time

Gorou only benefits itto so hes not that useful and only two geo as well

Probably get almost an even amount of dmg from all four characters

Just not a fan of extended rotations

And beidous probably better off in another team like sucrose taser

And you’re running 4 highly invested units, 3 of which are 5 stars lol

[frigid hound]

Raiden + Itto is

[ancient pecan]

maybe use ER sands instead of def?

smaller numbers but better rotations (and no need to build awkward teams with EMC or raiden)

[ionic cape]

[unique rover]

Would itto benefit from burning bull

Just thinking

Nvm it has cd for stacks

[ornate salmon]

no

[past garden]

im right in assuming that itto is similar to xiao and hu tao and diluc that he needs to be on the field as a "selfish" dps, right? he's not really made for quick-swappies?

[muted arrow]

diluc doesn't have the same issues

he can be swapped if you need it

but yea he's like hu tao and xiao

[sharp sinew]

Is it that bad?

[orchid flume]

its okay

[reef stump]

Raiden Itto runs into very long rotations and Raiden doesn't have a shred of Support in the Team, so her own damage will suffer a lot. Have a hard time believing its going to be worthwhile.even if it drops ER reqs.

[gusty turret]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/822270758096994344/900707895358947388/video0.mp4

[normal silo]

source?

[gusty turret]

waffel/pong

[ionic cape]

waffel

[gusty turret]

it was posted on the leaks subreddit

[ionic cape]

yeah stealed again

[normal silo]

ohh, can you send me that reddit

[ionic cape]

[gusty turret]

i dont recommend it

too much drama

ayato mains still mad at ubatcha

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/

[dapper bramble]

theoretically how many SCA itto can do with c6?

[ocean bison]

is it just me or his dmg is kinda meh in this video?

i mean, this is itto c6

[dapper bramble]

we shouldnt see dmg in leaked video tho

[ocean bison]

i think it would be the same amount he does at c0 x1.5

at max superlative stacks

[nocturne sorrel]

however many will fit in 11 seconds

20+

[dapper bramble]

nice

would like to see that rng soon

[gusty turret]

its not a dmg showcase, more like an AoE showcase.

[atomic sundial]

we don't know if they have things like artifacts in private server too

bcs that leak isn't from beta it's a private server

[rigid dome]

from waffel/pong server

[ocean bison]

hmmm okay then

any information on the weapon lvl tho?

[rigid dome]

nope

[muted arrow]

looks pretty good honestly

[misty idol]

does anyone know how is itto's dps when compared to xiao?

[sharp sinew]

Oh, I'm not gonna run them in abyss together in one team, I'm gonna make them Hyper carries. Although I would run them together in open world because yes

[reef stump]

Open World you don't need proper Teams/Rotations anyway and can just run whatever you want. So thats not something I'm accounting for with regards to optimization

[reef stump]

Its shaping up, but I'm still a bit sceptical, might just be asking too much though

[muted arrow]

if he can settle in a position where he's above xiao, considering his range and level of comfort, he should be in a good spot

[misty idol]

so, is xiao getting powercreeped?

[reef stump]

I don't think the direct comparison here is a good idea, but fully unbuffed in a vacuum his personal damage is still behind Xiao w/o use of collision

That ofc doesn't mean his Comps can't do more than Xiao comps

[misty idol]

yeah, cuz albedo exist

and gorou

xiao still doesn't have his personal anemo buffer besides bennet

[sharp sinew]

What chars work with Itto? (No Gorou Zhong and Albedo)

[vale pawn]

Yes, xiao is getting powercreep by Itto

[vale pawn]

Then don't try to make Itto comp

[sharp sinew]

bruh

won't ningguang geomc work?

[vale pawn]

Poorly

[sharp sinew]

although i really want to pull for Zhongli if he reruns

[vale pawn]

Gorou is going to be on the same banner as Itto

So you might get him

[sharp sinew]

yeah, im saving my guaranteed for itto, im a sucker for claymore users

[misty idol]

do you have MV/S comparison?

[reef stump]

Way too early to say that and might not even be a direct comparison

[misty idol]

well, which is why i want MV/S comparison

we have itto's frame count now

just no Mv/s

[reef stump]

MV/s comparisons between the two are not very expressive

They both are big stat sticks in different ways

[misty idol]

it's the base line we can follow

[reef stump]

their MV/s isn't representative of their performance

[misty idol]

cuz besides that

we don't have much else to go on

and homa is coming

so, one must decide

it's not like both are in same patch we can slowly test things out

[reef stump]

I have both his MV/s and a rudimentary Dmg Calc, but the MV/s are only useful for estimating his own combos, rather than comparing him to a completely different unit

[misty idol]

well, it's pretty much all we got, besides the damage calculator

btw, do we have a xiao damage sheet?

and a bit hard to go on when two use very different rotation

[sharp sinew]

Itto, gorou, geomc, flex will this be fine in abyss?

[vale pawn]

MV/S comparison is useless, because they don't even use same base stats.

[misty idol]

we can plug in the stats and get a rough damage compare

[reef stump]

Like, my current best Itto combo has around 3.9k MV per Q window. And thats not a lot. Fischl can do upwards of 4k, Raiden up to almost 6k. Ayaka's Q on its own has 4k MV. But Itto is a stat stick in a similar fashion to Hu Tao, so the effectvie dmg throughput varies wildly from what his MVs imply

[misty idol]

yeah, but with gorou and albedo damage

the buff is very significant, and team damage too with albedo

also, need to check the new weapon

[reef stump]

Those other units also have signficant Buffs, you cant ballpark it that easily

[muted arrow]

what's hu tao mv per rotation?

[misty idol]

yeah, the rough calc with gorou c6 and zhongli shield can get a 60/220 itto around 570k

within his ult

not sure about xiao cuz i don't have him, heard he is about to get a rerun in 2.4

so, i am trying to decide

and homa is this patch

[reef stump]

T10 12 N1C is 3,9k MV, pre vape

[muted arrow]

then 3.9k doesn't seem low for itto considering his superior aoe potential

[misty idol]

his aoe is second to xiao i think?

probably similar to raiden?

[muted arrow]

nah looks better than raiden

[misty idol]

slightly larger based on the footage

raiden's ult range is actually huge

[muted arrow]

from what i saw all attacks seemed to have raiden CA type of range

[reef stump]

If you want a good representation of Itto's power level that isn't just a wild guess or a speculative dmg Calc then you will still have to wait till we have clean data. Everything you will get right now is based on more or less realistic assumptions and can look very different when he is released

[misty idol]

yeah, about the same

but wider

[misty idol]

well, that's the best we have

[reef stump]

Like I said, don't compare raw MV on untis that are abnormal stat sticks, it won't do you any favors

[onyx junco]

12 charged attacks on hu tao?

[misty idol]

not like we have a choice when stuff are divided into different patches and banners

[reef stump]

on of her C1 ceiling-ish combos

[muted arrow]

yeah but both hu tao and itto are stat sticks in similar fashion, attack

if they're MVs are similar, then hu tao gets the advantage thanks to reaction

[onyx junco]

oh c1, i was going to say

[reef stump]

Still not exactly the same, HT also has amps, Itto doesn't

[misty idol]

well, gorou buff

albedo team damage

[muted arrow]

but itto also gets an advantage thanks to superior aoe

[misty idol]

gorou buff is actually massive on itto

around 35-40% damage increase i think?

[muted arrow]

as a hu tao user I can say that the chance of hu tao hitting 2 enemies even close to each other with a charged is slim

[reef stump]

A lot of units do comapred to HT, doesn't mean a lot in a vacuum

[nocturne sorrel]

just compare him to noelle

[muted arrow]

yep but this is again in the context of a unit that has the same MVs and same type of attack stat stick

[misty idol]

i think comparing itto and hutao is unfair

since she is so single target focused

[reef stump]

not the same kind of Support and not exactly the same ATK stick though

[misty idol]

she accelerates at stuff like magu kenki

if you just want to compare pure damage output

i think xiao might be better

[muted arrow]

yeah of course that requires full rotation calc etc, but what I'm trying to say is that 3.9k is not low for itto, not that he's on par with hu tao or better

[misty idol]

sigh, this is messy

very hard to decide

well, how is xiao's single target damage compared to itto? with rough calc

assuming xiao uses collision plunge

[reef stump]

Noelle's ceiling combo has over 3.5k MV

And she is actually an almost identical Stat Stick

[misty idol]

hmm, sounds nice

[reef stump]

And Noelle isn't known for good ST damage

Tbf Gorou mgiht change that

[muted arrow]

yet

[misty idol]

will she be better with gorou

yeah, was about to say

gorou buff is massive

[reef stump]

But from what I can see, unless Noelle is smh unfavored by rotations/Buff uptimes, there isn't a huge gap between Noelle and Itto in terms of personal damage potential from what I can see

[misty idol]

hmmm

well then, keep me posted

really want to see if xiao will be replaced

need to decide

[reef stump]

Xiao is a different beast

[misty idol]

yeah.....but you know.....one is in 2.3, one is in 2.4.....

[reef stump]

Itto jsut by virtue of using Albedo+Gorou isn't really a Hypercarry anymore in the sense that he won't be 75%+ of his Teams damage

[misty idol]

really

didn't expect albedo to do that much damage

[reef stump]

Albedo with Gorou, ewn Set and all might very well be around half of Itto's dmg

Gorou if build for dmg beyond what he needs to function might be another 30ish% of Albedo's dmg

So Itto is like what, 60% of his Teams dmg

[misty idol]

hmm, well, i guess with gorou's buff albedo can reach maybe up to 25k per tick?

[patent galleon]

ive seen calcs put albedo within the 30-35k range with gorou and the new set

[misty idol]

assuming medium investment

really

[patent galleon]

mind you his new weapon is also a thing, and then gorou C6

[misty idol]

i heard his new weapon at decent investment is like 10-15% better than harbinger of dawn

[patent galleon]

yeah the buffs to albedo are kinda nuts

assuming everything stays the same on live

[reef stump]

Gorou is probably the star of the Patch rather than Itto. Tbh to me it seems like gettign Gorou is much more crucial to getting Geo Teams up there than Itto. If you have C6 Noelle and Albedo you're good to go aswell

On the flipside Itto+Gorou w/o Albedo will likely suffer massively in the Team Dmg or energy department

[misty idol]

yeah, but i feel gorou is like sara no?

[patent galleon]

basically

[misty idol]

like, pretty niche

[patent galleon]

geo sara

[reef stump]

Gorou is much more practical and impactful than Sara

[misty idol]

just for 1 or 2 characters

[patent galleon]

yeah at C0 gorou seems alot better/functional

[misty idol]

sara even at c6 is still clunky to use.....

[reef stump]

Since Bennett doesn't work for Albedo and only to a lesser extent for Noelle and Itto. Wheras Bennett works for our Electro cast

[misty idol]

the design of the character is just terrible....

[patent galleon]

sara C0 is clunky, and she honestly feels dependent on C6 to be meaningful over like bennett

[misty idol]

sigh, i like her aesthetic a lot

i use raiden as dps

so, c6 sara is kinda a must have in my team

[patent galleon]

same, but poor kit design

i think they learned from her tho with gorou

since he is way better kit wise C0

[ornate salmon]

its good that theyre taking notes

[misty idol]

i really dislike some of those mhy's experimentation with cons

[ornate salmon]

but leaving her there is just dissapointing

[reef stump]

She really isn't that necessary for Raiden. Bennett+Kaz build her DPS core, whether you use Sara or another fitting Sub DPS is not that huge of a deal, especially below C2

[misty idol]

can permanently ruin a character

[ornate salmon]

whos cons ruin them?

[misty idol]

i have c2

[ornate salmon]

other than bennett

heck fking bennett is still good c6

why use him with a physical carry

[misty idol]

no, i mean the separation of kits into cons

[patent galleon]

hopefully Yunjin will be like gorou if, sus leaks are to be believed

[ornate salmon]

oh

[misty idol]

sara before c6 is terrible

[ornate salmon]

id say c2

shes usable

[patent galleon]

C2 makes her useable

IMO

[misty idol]

c2 is like 1/3 of a bennett

[ornate salmon]

i agree that before c2 shes terrible to play

[reef stump]

usable is the right term, but not much beyond just usable tbh

[misty idol]

that lasts 6 secs.....

[patent galleon]

C2 just makes the buff less complicated/annoying to apply. and lets her double buff.

[misty idol]

and itto, pre-change was pretty focused on c2 unless you bring geoMC

[misty idol]

just usable, not useful

[ornate salmon]

i thought his issue was doing noelle c6 level dmg

[misty idol]

c6 sara can see some use in raiden dps teams

[misty idol]

well, gorou exist, and c6 4*

[ornate salmon]

pretty sure if shes c6 shes bis in her hypercarry team

[misty idol]

i will probably still go for xiao

[obsidian goblet]

How good is C6 Itto looking? Would it be worth to keep CA'ing during procs, or should we stick to normal rotation, ie. swap to supports after his usual rotation?

[misty idol]

don't want to bet my luck on c6 gorou

i mean.....if you are gonna c6 a 5*

does that matter.....

[patent galleon]

id wait too see if Yunjin rumors are true. if so that be a big deal for Xiao/his banners value.

[reef stump]

You will always only be on Itto for his Q, he deals no damage outside of it

[misty idol]

he is good enough to beat the shit out of everything in this game with ez

[misty idol]

we will see when 2.3 drops

i already have one homa

but i don't want to share it between 2 characters

[obsidian goblet]

I'm just curious how it would change his team rotation

[misty idol]

not much, still CA unga bunga

c2 will change his rotation a bit more

[reef stump]

It jsut changes his rotation inside his Q window. Team rotations stay exactly the same

[patent galleon]

not much if at all, you just get to spam CA swings

[obsidian goblet]

Okay, thanks ^^

[patent galleon]

i will say that Itto's C6 looks more reliable/consistent than say Xiao C6

[misty idol]

it's similar

in speed run environment

both are not amazing

raiden eula/ayaka swap nuke

[patent galleon]

yeah but Itto's looks less likely to have any issues or complications

[misty idol]

and ganyu melt will still rule

yeah

[hasty quail]

eh I have c1 Xiao already and I can't see myself pulling for Yunjin if she's on his banner. His constellations past c1 really ain't appealing

[misty idol]

we are not even sure if yunjing will be a 5* or not

[patent galleon]

true, but for people pulling their first copy it could be huge

[misty idol]

some say shenhe is the 5*, some say yunjing

[hasty quail]

I can't see her being a 5*. Her design looks p tame

she's got long hair but that's kinda it

[misty idol]

shouldn't judge based on design

hutao's design is plane as well

[hasty quail]

i'd believe shenhe is a 5* since she has long hair+outfit flaps

[patent galleon]

sus leaks said she is a 4* on Xiao's banner, and that she is basically like sara/gorou but for anemo. ofc all speculation

[misty idol]

that doesn't sounds very reasonable

but, that aside

if yunjing becomes an anemo buffer like sara or gorou

i think she will be must pull if you use xiao

[patent galleon]

im more interested in what she would even provide as a buffer

because attack% or dmg bonus is useless for Xiao

[misty idol]

well, no idea

[patent galleon]

well not useless, but it would be overkill

[hasty quail]

plunge damage bonus like Albedo's c4

[patent galleon]

thats dmg bonus

[hasty quail]

ah

[misty idol]

from sara and gorou

[patent galleon]

she would need to either provide Def shred or Anemo shred

[misty idol]

their buffs are pretty exclusive to specific characters

[patent galleon]

otherwise use bennett lol

[misty idol]

so, i think yunjing might be the same

[hasty quail]

give xiao an arti set already

maybe that'll fix his problems

[misty idol]

very unlikely that yunjing is as universal as kazuha

[onyx junco]

you could use both tho

[misty idol]

xiao really doesn't have a problem

tbh

well, maybe besides the squishiness

[patent galleon]

this would run into the same issue even if they did, it would need to be either Def shred or Anemo shred. otherwise it wouldnt be meaningful compared to his current artifact options

[hasty quail]

I use him most of the time and he always feels so underwhelming compared to what the other dps carries can do

[misty idol]

but his dps is fine

not sure what your investment level is, but i see a lot of xiao doing 80k per plunge

and his massive aoe

he is fine

[patent galleon]

Xiao hardly even cares about artifact set bonuses, because they oversaturate his stats.

[misty idol]

and in single target, his collision plunge is pretty on crack

[patent galleon]

substats matter more

[misty idol]

i feel he needs a more exclusive support

maybe yunjing

it's hard to design an artifact for him without making jean, or other anemo character also kinda busted

or maybe just another "childe set" lmao

[patent galleon]

they could make it super niche

like the effect activates on plunge, or only affects plunge dmg

[misty idol]

yeah......childe set all over again.....

[patent galleon]

basically

[misty idol]

i dislike those niche sets

feels like fixer rather than good design

[patent galleon]

well like you said, only way to keep other anemo characters from getting overtuned

[misty idol]

yeah, design an exclusive character

rather than artifact

[onyx junco]

they could just make it a good 2 piece set, like shime or glad

[misty idol]

cuz you know.....the grind

[patent galleon]

tbh tho, im still not sure how i feel about dedicated supports like sara/gorou.

[misty idol]

well.....it's one way to make money for mhy

just business practice

[patent galleon]

if they are done well like C0 gorou from now on, i suppose its fine. but it also feels restrictive, because it puts you in a position of feeling like they are a must have for X units

[misty idol]

mhy is a company after all

their goal is to make money

[patent galleon]

like Itto basically wants gorou always

[misty idol]

making us comfortable is a side goal

i mean....look at anniversary rewards

[patent galleon]

cases like sara tho are just unnecessary tho IMO, they could have made her better at C0 at least. instead it was C6 or bust

[onyx junco]

i mean, this has always been the case with all the pyro dps, they need xingqiu

[misty idol]

they are testing player's limits

you know, testing water, see how much players are willing to spend

[patent galleon]

Xinqiu isnt con bait tho, he can do what he does at C0 and even with minimal investment

[misty idol]

xingqiu is just amazing in general

cons just makes him even better

prebuff zhongli was a con bait

the whale experience and f2p experience are completely different

[patent galleon]

like gorou's cons arent that appealing or broken outside of C6, but his C0 is also amazing for its niche

[misty idol]

whales have essentially double or even triple the amount of shields

i feel c2 is also kinda important

[onyx junco]

yeah totally, but he is needed. c6 gorou isnt needed, but is really different if you have it

sara is just a mess tho

[misty idol]

unless it's like bennet where the buff last 1-2 secs when the duration expires

yeah, sara is a huge mess

even in c6 she is still too niche

[patent galleon]

also xinqiu isnt niche which is something to note, these dedicated supports are basically made for X character or Element. not really useful elsewhere. so having them suck without X cons feels scummy

like where are you gonna realistically use Sara outside of an electro dmg focused team? especially C6. and gorou as well? unless mihoyo makes all future geo characters Def scaling

[rose eagle]

what set / artifact stats are people estimating on itto? does he need an er sands at c0?

[reef stump]

New DEF Set. We have no confirmation on his energy but I would cast ER Sands in doubt

[rose eagle]

yeah i guess one of the "benefits' of geo not needing other reactions is that you can run 3-4 of them together lol

so lots of on-element particles

so it would either be DefDmgCrit or AtkDmgCrit? would he even conceivably want an attack sands?

or almost certainly def dmg crit only mainstats

[reef stump]

DEF and Crit, ATK% isn't valuable to him

[frigid hound]

Its all just pong

Waffel is busy

Btw

Speaking of the particles

Its probably not working on the client

No hp particles

[ionic cape]

pong playing on waffel client again

[silk radish]

What is the general opinion about ittos kit? Is he looking to be a top tier character or is he weaker?

[ionic cape]

not weak but definitely good charac

[crystal spindle]

Does one need and albedo and zhongli for Mr itto? Cause the other geo options currently available.... Are kinda iffy

[ornate salmon]

nope but theyre nice to hv, you can use kokomi and xiao with itto to double the team's dmg

did I mention xinyan? shes great for shielding

[orchid flume]

might throw in razor in there for ec

[misty idol]

any news on the itto damage calc?

also, found this

[reef stump]

Itto might be closer to Xiao than I anticipated, but I need confirmation first that my Xiao Calc checks out. I'm however not accounting for collision plunges

[alpine crown]

what is your xiao calc?

[mighty ridge]

Xiao only needs sucrose to fund his burst but itto

[reef stump]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vYgQnCwdcVDplLILAn189Pacu-bEzTDvlKPI1AlThA8/edit#gid=0

[late crater]

ITTO

[alpine crown]

only thing that struck out to me is the dps /20s; I think 22s is usually used instead

[alpine crown]

had to adjust some things in my calc, but I get 19965/s (divided by 20s) for unbuffed 11 high plunges + 2E using your assumptions

not sure where the difference is coming from, but its small enough to not matter

[reef stump]

Primarily just an estimate, since I gave the same to Itto and for Itto it will likely also end up being 21-22s. Can easily adjust that later

[reef stump]

10% difference is not unsubstantial, should be worth looking into

[alpine crown]

19965 compared to 19755 is like 1% though?

[alpine crown]

xiao's burst lasts 15s compared to itto's 11s, not sure if its such a good idea

[reef stump]

whoops I looked at the wrong combo

If Itto ends up having no hitlag extension Itto's rotations might be a bit shorter, yeah

But I don't want to make Itto look better based on rotation times w/o having something substantial to back that up

[alpine crown]

fair

better to underestimate

[reef stump]

And Tbf if I put Itto in a fully buffed situation like Xiao

With C6 Gorou + Bennett

he beats Xiao

on ST atleast

[alpine crown]

ya, i got the same i think

btw, ttds buff shouldnt be considered 100% uptime

lasts 10s and has a 30s cooldown

[reef stump]

Thats what the 10% penalty is for

20s cd

I couldn't be bothered for that quick look to separate each Buff scenario

so I approximated uptime and benefits

and made a rough total dmg penalty on his plunges

to adjust for Buff Uptimes

So buffed state isn't perfectly accurate

but should still be in the right ballpark

[alpine crown]

wheres the 10% penalty? cant find it

[reef stump]

I deducted 10% from all Plunges 90% multiplier at the end

in the rotation dmg itself

[alpine crown]

oh i see

sounds fair

[reef stump]

TTDS was only aroudn 10% more dmg after everything else so I chopped off 3.5% for that since it has 2/3 Uptime. Other 6.5% are for NO being 12s and Bennett Q being gone on the last plunge

Tbh it should probably be a bit more than 10% but since I'm assuming 100% Uptime for Itto rn that should still be fair

gonna work on more accuracy later

[lament hazel]

Hello

Is itto better than diluc based on the leaked video?

Just wondering

[ocean bison]

not sure how do i feel about itto kinda having the same dmg output as xiao

[nocturne sorrel]

same dmg output without having to jump around like a loon?

that's power creep

[ocean bison]

hmm thats a good point

[static mural]

could see itto beating xiao on ST not counting collision plunges or jet combo. tho aoe, thats a whole different ballpark to actually dare compare aoe mods with xiao

[ionic cape]

[onyx junco]

Im all for it, that would be great imo

[ocean bison]

maybe im biased because i have xiao and i find his dmg nowadays a little bit lackluster, comparing with my other abyss teams like raiden national and ayaka morgana

[onyx junco]

i mean, those are like top 3 best teams in the game, you are setting the bar a bit too high haha

[patent galleon]

not to mention ur talking about a hyper carry, so the bar isnt gonna be as high as teams that have several sources of dmg rather than one single unit.

[nocturne sorrel]

xiao is usually a hypercarry but itto isn't

albedo and an elemental subdps can fit into his team

[swift knot]

why is itto not a hypercarry

[unique rover]

i think coz his synergies can have their own dmg

[swift knot]

?

you can put albedo on a xiao team

you can put fish on a xiao team

[unique rover]

IDK

[swift knot]

they do the same thing

regardless of the team

[late crater]

[swift knot]

@steep marsh i just realized yanfei's a4 has a separate icd

that means if your ca crits you get 2 instant pyro apps

not like youll be able to build enough crit but

food for thought

wait shit i put this in the itto thread

[pearl bone]

[frigid hound]

[swift knot]

[frigid hound]

U have been on Yanfei tc for a longtime

U realize it just now

[swift knot]

i went on hiatus i swear

[frigid hound]

[ionic cape]

[misty idol]

so, any update on itto's potential?

[muted arrow]

he's good

[swift knot]

[misty idol]

noelle level good?

cuz so far his MV during his ult is similar to noelle's

i heard his team potential is good

cuz albedo buff

and gorou synergy

[ornate salmon]

http://www.lasesp.com/article/16349777903168465/Itto_Calcs

[misty idol]

too late, someone already did that in another server

[reef stump]

Difference is that an Itto Team has the means to buff Albedo and doesn't pay with Itto Buffs to run Albedo. If you want to run Albedo or another Sub on a Xiao Team you likely have to replace Bennett or ZL, losing out on Buffs for Xiao or you replace Sucrose/Jean where you lose your battery.

[mighty ridge]

Does itto break fatui and elemental shields with hope and prayer?

[ionic cape]

[ocean bison]

can someone explain me how itto rotation works in a comp with albedo and gorou? i mean, he will be on the field just when he is on burst mode right? all these superlative strength stacks gonna be generated only in burst mode?

[reef stump]

You can always generate Stacks with his E and the final hit of his NA combo, but pre-stacking isn't really something you want to do as of now.
A potential rotation would be:
Gorou E -> Albedo E -> 4th slot -> Gorou Q -> Itto Q

[gusty turret]

I think it would be better for Albedo E + Q after gorou no? Since he can instastack the new set like that

[reef stump]

Thats why Gorou starts with E, since his E buffs aswell

Albedo Q might not be worth using at C0

[onyx junco]

i think you should use the 4th slot character at the start so you dont lose uptime on gorou's zone with itto, i could be wrong tho

[reef stump]

Gorou Q still comes after the 4th slot

[alpine crown]

you prob need to use albedo's Q for the EM, no?

unless you run a shield on the 4th slot

[reef stump]

I don't think you want to extend your rotation 2s for little dmg and 125 EM

[alpine crown]

good point

[reef stump]

Especially since that EM won't last for the entire Itto window anyway

Before you do that probably get a healer/shielder if necessary

A Fischl would prolly do around 200k DPR Max. ZL RES shred is already worth 100k, get some Resonance going and you're not much into the negatives

[ocean bison]

can raiden work as the 4th slot in this comp?

[reef stump]

At the current stage I'd say highly unlikely. Itto wants low field time Supports, otherwise rotations become incredibly long. And given that Raiden has no Support for her dmg at all she really can't make up for an extended rotation. Some early ER Calcs also indicate Raiden shouldn't be necessary to fund Itto either.

[ocean bison]

i mean, even a c2 r1 engulfing raiden couldnt make up for the time on field?

[reef stump]

Maybe, but really whats the point of wasting C2 Raiden's potential on a comp where she isn't needed and isn't seeing Support?

[rare pendant]

is itto gonna need bennet
like xiangling or diluc?

[reef stump]

Bennett is still quite good for Itto on paper, but not anywhere near as good or needed as for the usual candidates.

[rare pendant]

yeah at this point my bennet is bounded by xiangling comp that i want to skip every character that rely on bennet heavily
that's why i considering getting hutao
but if i get hutao i might not be able to grab albedo for itto support

waiting xiao and ganyu rerun is pain

[long vessel]

ikr

[rare pendant]

fellow ganyuless comrade?

[ornate salmon]

no ditch ganyu

[short obsidian]

Whats the best itto team as of now?

[reef stump]

Itto/Albedo/Gorou/X. For the last slot there is no particularly outstanding option atm. Can be a Bennett, a Sub DPS like Fischl, another Geo like ZL. Gonna either boil down to more in-depth Calcs or preference

[short obsidian]

Thanks

Thanks

[rare pendant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY-9kCGPIZw
anybody watching this?

[mighty ridge]

I’ve seen some people compare itto to C6 noelle in terms of dps. How true is this and, if true, is it looking bad for itto?

[rare pendant]

i doubt noelle can beat itto in term of damage but noelle have shield + heal + big aoe in n1-n3 depend on your preference noelle might be better
and don't forget noelle also gonna get all benefit that come with itto (gorro and new arti set and new 5*weapon)

[mighty ridge]

Who does itto compare to in terms of dps?

[ocean bison]

actually, are there any calcs on how much better noelle will become next patch?

[pale flax]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10aeQK0YsiSXMTQMMASKb7BHilnXy-AoDFX8yLH7XX5A/edit?usp=sharing itto noelle comparison with the new set

[onyx junco]

noelle is getting really strong next patch, so you shouldn't be concerned if she comes close to itto

[storm tulip]

Albedo snapshots all he does, so that is not really relevant

You need to recast E to apply the stacks from the new set to not only his E but to his Q blossoms (not the initial impact)

His stats for the Q blossom hits snapshot upon E cast

[gusty turret]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/qfj4k0/some_changes_via_waffel/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

Weird this isn't in the leaks channel yet but uh here it is

C1 used to be nice, now it's really good ig

[onyx junco]

c4 is terrible now imo

[gusty turret]

Yep

Don't know why they would change it

[reef stump]

C1 is functionally unchanged, they just updated the description

C4 is ? w/o any concrete values

[patent galleon]

C4 seems more supportive

good if ur running albedo i guess? depending on what the values are

[reef stump]

Can be anything depending on how long it lasts. He might be able to loop it himself

[ocean bison]

does this aa dmg increase comes before the calculation of goblet dmg% bonus and crit dmg?

[reef stump]

Ofc, its a multiplier increase

[ocean bison]

hmm so the passive is quite good now

[reef stump]

None of his Passives changed

[onyx junco]

he is talking about redhorn i think

[reef stump]

Redhorn's Passive doesn't benefit from buffed Multipliers on Itto either, since its independent DEF MVs

If one Itto having higher mutlipliers actually makes it worse

[nocturne sorrel]

what is mhy's obsession with dps chars giving buffs when they're done dpsing

[ocean bison]

mhy basically saying they want us to run the dugtrio team

[reef stump]

Maybe they're really experimenting on how to make Dual DPS comps a thing so they can sell more DPS units effectively idk. DPS giving smth back to the Team itself isn't a bad idea, but on Itto who is fairly selfish that has questionable merit.

But with C2 he should be able to loop his own C4 back onto himself. So it might not necessarily be just Support value

or generally. 18s cd, he sits in there 12.5s before hitlag extension. So even if the Buff only lasts 10s he could loop on his next Q should he snapshot the DEF conversion

[storm tulip]

c1 didnt have any changes

all that changed in c1 was the english used in the constellation

because it was hard to understand before

[storm tulip]

he should yes, noelle does and it would be weird for them to not work the same in that regard

[ocean bison]

is r3 serpent spine better than r1 redhorn?

[reef stump]

R3 SS is about 5,7% worse, including the newest Buffs

[alpine crown]

is the redhorn back to base 44?

[reef stump]

yup

[gusty turret]

so... when does beta end

do we still have hopes of more buffs

[frigid hound]

Yeah

Wait for it

Lol

[reef stump]

If more Buffs come it would be next Monday I guess

He doesn't really look like needing Buffs, so keep the Hopium in check

[frigid hound]

But its all gonna be minor I think

Itto is looking good now

[onyx junco]

buffs last week came on tuesday, but last week was... weird

because they where leaked on monday night (at least in my time zone), honey updated on tuesday, they got taken down the same day, then got reverted back on wednesday

so everything could happen as far as we know

[ocean bison]

i just want them to buff his muscles now

[frigid hound]

Fat chance

[supple sleet]

are there any early DPS comparisons done with Itto comps vs other hypercarries yet or is it still too early

[reef stump]

Would be speculative since we can't say for sure how Ittos ideal dmg combos look

Depending on a few unknown factors his dmg can still vary significantly

[supple sleet]

gotcha

how is it looking speculatively then

I'm just genuinely curious to see approx where he could stand

also because I'm still deciding whether to go for Hu Tao or Itto

[reef stump]

His Team performance with Gorou and Albedo looks quite promising

Itto with C6 Gorou and Bennett can beat fully buffed Hyper Xiao in ST dmg w/o collision, while getting a hefty chunk fo Albedo Sub DPS dmg on top. Itto AoE capabilities are still somewhat nebulous

[supple sleet]

yeah he didn't look to have the best AoE

[frigid hound]

His aoe potential is still up for debate

[supple sleet]

realistically speaking Itto would prob be better for me since RNG has somehow graced a c4 Diluc onto my lap but I'm still a bit indecisive since I like Hu Tao's design

would he have energy issues due to RNG Albedo flower or is that not a huge issue

[frigid hound]

choose with ur down under

The healthy choice

[supple sleet]

[reef stump]

I'd say if my current assumptions materialize he is definitely in line with other C0 Meta comps. But he doesn't seem to break any new ground and him having no Burst will make him looks worse in territories you can speedrun

[supple sleet]

figured

[reef stump]

He is super tanky though, so likely on the comfy side

[supple sleet]

If I got him I was thinking of pairing him with Serpent Spine but it feels a bit restrictive putting a shielder in the 4th slot

yeah

[frigid hound]

Just dodge

[reef stump]

SS is definitely what you want if you don't go for his 5*

[frigid hound]

And rely on gorou succ

[reef stump]

and even that is only a sidegrade unless you whale for R5

[frigid hound]

[supple sleet]

Gorou succ

[frigid hound]

Crystal succ

[reef stump]

Gooru draws in Crystallize shards with his

[supple sleet]

ye

I know

[frigid hound]

[supple sleet]

just wasnt sure how reliable that would be since it's 10/20 sec uptime

[frigid hound]

That

We cant tell

[supple sleet]

yeah

[frigid hound]

Cuz where particles

[supple sleet]

yeah