Itto Thread

[graceful ingot]

Itto Supremacy?

[jaunty junco]

yes

[muted arrow]

Ningguang is better

[tribal osprey]

Abs supremacy

[jaunty junco]

abs hawt

[velvet shore]

Fuck it I'm an Itto main until Shenhe leaks happen

[ionic cape]

[pearl bone]

Ayyoo

Itto looking nice just saying

[reef arrow]

Geo buff let's go

[vernal forge]

Itto x Gourou fan art when?

[ionic cape]

its not geo buff entirely, not for ning and zhongli

[reef arrow]

It is for me because with the new artifact set on albedo I'll be running a geo dps zhongli

[edgy fern]

im going for itto (and gorou) then waiting for shenhe and yae... baizhu too.

with itto, could ningguang work instead of albedo? i have her c6 from ayaka banner so i figure she could be pretty good

[thin chasm]

so true

[jaunty junco]

there are nsfw already

wdym?

[crystal isle]

Do you guys thing there are any good artifact set aside from the upcoming set for itto?

[vernal forge]

you can try go with 4 glad I guess... but I still think that it will be worse than the new one

or 4 retracing bolide

[crystal isle]

Was thinking Bolide yeah, but I was curious if the special thing on his CA is counted as CA

[vernal forge]

We can't confirm it right now, but I guess it is safe to assume so.

[crystal isle]

Mhm thanks!

[ionic cape]

anyone already made framecounts?

[pearl bone]

frame count should be pinned here

but it kinda looks like he can fit 2x4C + 4N in ult

[jaunty junco]

Anyone know what skill was itto dash on 1:21

[pearl bone]

that's Kesagiri final slash

[ionic cape]

can we call itto Q as Bonk Mode

[swift knot]

wait 2 x (4C+N4)?

or 2x4C + N4

also when you say 4C

is that 4 combos and 1 final

or 3 combos and 1 final

[pearl bone]

ult string (most likely): 5C + 4N + 5C

[pearl bone]

forgot final attack

[swift knot]

where does E fit

[pearl bone]

depends on cons, C0, u E at the beginning of rotation to gather stack

C0 most likely wont have the full Kesagiri stack on second 5C

[swift knot]

is 5C including a final?

[pearl bone]

yeah

max 5 stacks

[swift knot]

im still a little confused on that

[pearl bone]

last stack always get converted into final attack

[swift knot]

oh

okay that makes sense

in that case

[pearl bone]

look at the vid, Itto got 1 stack only, and it's Kesagiri final

[swift knot]

where is he getting the 5 stacks

if he N4s

some passive?

[pearl bone]

no 5 stacks on second charged attack set, some Charge attacks will be just plain charge attacks

playing Itto is managing his stacks

or at least at C0

once you go C1/C2 it's unga bunga

[swift knot]

at c0

then n4 would lead to an 4C?

cause it says the last superlative stack consumed is a final

[ionic cape]

were doing full sequence of his auto?

[pearl bone]

assumption, when u run of stacks he will switch to plain charge attack (Saichimonji)

[swift knot]

then if you gfinish his CA is when the final happens?

[pearl bone]

ig in that regard, once the final Kesagiri come out u switch to normal strings to stack for the next ult

[pearl bone]

^

[swift knot]

aight makes sense

in that case i probably want to revise my combo a little

do we wanna notate it a little different?

like C4F

4 combo 1 final

C3SF

[pearl bone]

umm i'm unsure if rotation is strict thing with Itto

[swift knot]

3 combo 1 sachi 1 final

[pearl bone]

like gathering stack will be very dynamic at C0

like if ur baby bull gets attacked alot it's 5 stacks easy

but if u fight say, maguu or PMA

ew

[swift knot]

wait

[pearl bone]

that's where C1 comes in, it guarantees 5 stack when u Q

[swift knot]

what if youre in the middle of a ca

and you gain stacks

does that mean you wont get to reach your final

[pearl bone]

u will consume stacks faster than u gain, just from the baby bull

[pearl bone]

they can also make it that once u gain 5 stacks, u have to spend it first

[swift knot]

is there some visual cue for when when you consume all stakcs?

[pearl bone]

probably not, just the orb count

[swift knot]

yeah this is so much simpler

though if he gains stacks while he spends them

that would be annoying unless there was a visual cue or they snapshot the number of stacks you have when going into a CA

[pearl bone]

most likely wont, C6 will be useless

[swift knot]

haha

i dont read cons

can we pin some shit here?

like itto honey

considering it's the itto discussion

[pearl bone]

just leave it open all the time

if ur mobile just suffer

[swift knot]

:catstare:

wait a minute

his ult

says that he only gains superlative stacks on N3

[pearl bone]

his ult gives u 5 stack yea from N4, i forgot

[swift knot]

theyre like explicitly leaving out his N4

[pearl bone]

with N4

[swift knot]

wait wut

[pearl bone]

N4 still gives u stack from the NA skill desc

[swift knot]

oh yeah right

that means that going to N4 gives you 5 stakcs

in ult

[pearl bone]

yea

[swift knot]

that's pretty pog

[pearl bone]

N4 is a must in ult string

for the second C5

[swift knot]

yeah extra stack on N4 sounds big

wait why do you think he wouldnt be able to gain stacks while he's consuming them with his CA?

his C6?

[pearl bone]

no just fixed my comment

ignore that

[swift knot]

in that case

do you think you can gain stacks while youre CAing?

i dont see anything that would be explicitly against it

that being said i havent read his cons

[pearl bone]

yeah, nothing that says against it

C1 explicitly gives you stack unconditionally on intervals though

3 stacks

[swift knot]

oh

what if it just stores stacks

like you are using up 5 superlative stacks but youre building up another set of 5 while youre CAing

so you can CA5 immediately again

either that or being able to continue using the arataki combos during CA is my other theory about what happens when you gain stakcs while youre consuming them

[pearl bone]

C1
Using Royal Descent: Behold, Itto the Evil! provides Arataki Itto with further buffs to Superlative Superstrength.
• Using it will grant Arataki Itto 2 stacks instead.
• From the first second of the skill's use, 1 stack will be added on until a total of 3 have been added.

[swift knot]

force feeding me the cons

:oooh:

dude what the fuck is his c2

[pearl bone]

C2
After using Royal Descent: Behold, Itto the Evil!, each party member whose Element is Geo will decrease that skill's CD by 1.5s and restore 6 Energy to Arataki Itto.
A maximum of 6s CD can be decreased and 24 Energy restored in this manner.

mono Geo stonk

[swift knot]

yeah that shit sounds insane

why do they keep doing this

[pearl bone]

14s CD

for ult

[swift knot]

making those early cons so damn juicy

yeah then also patching the energy hole that mightve been there because of shorter cd

[pearl bone]

Itto is designed to go all in kinda banner

[swift knot]

theyre getting smarter

[pearl bone]

with Gorou too

you either go all the way with him or not at all

which is why Im skipping

[swift knot]

all this and then we have hutao's c2 which is like a 1.5% dps increase from c1

yeah i think im skipping too

[pearl bone]

it's another, C2 Ittou and C6 Gorou kinda thing

[swift knot]

oh yeah

c6 gorou is pretty stronk too

for geo

im going for thoma though

he seems really interesting

[pearl bone]

i might go for Thoma, knowing what Itto is now

[swift knot]

is there something you dont like about his kit or more that he seems "cons loaded"

kinda like raiden

[pearl bone]

i mean there is nothing wrong with Itto, think he's gonna be really fun, and pretty good dps wise too

just can't see myself going all the way playing Itto/mono Geo

[swift knot]

ah

i mean he adds something interesting to the game ig

[pearl bone]

Itto's banner is a feast for Geo fans

Geo eating well

[swift knot]

mono geo is usually never a top tier option

yeah

[pearl bone]

yeah, I can see playing Itto being really fun

[swift knot]

first CA claymore user

but he isnt entirely CA

[pearl bone]

i dont have ZL (hate him), dont have Albedo (wants him)

for someone like me, i just can't see myself getting into this

[swift knot]

are you going for albedo?

[pearl bone]

will see his banner

[swift knot]

you think hell be before itto?

[pearl bone]

i think so, the sword is for him

[swift knot]

honestly with the new set and new weapon im pretty excited

[pearl bone]

yea it's a Geo party

[swift knot]

pick's opinion on albdo changed from sour to aight in a day just from the set and weapon

there is hope

for me and my c1 albedo

[pearl bone]

also i have half built Noelle with LVL90 Unforged

[swift knot]

[pearl bone]

Itto def gonna do more damage than Noelle tho (Pick dont bonk me)

[swift knot]

i mean prolly yeah

the pros of noelle prolly

heals

less selfish

aoe

other than that i think itto takes it in like every other category

[pearl bone]

at the same time, they kinda want to phase out Geo players away from Noelle

[swift knot]

the less slefish one is actually kinda important though

considering the existece of gmc

[pearl bone]

well, I mean there is nothing wrong with using Itto's team setup and build them for Itto and Noelle too

so ig u can still play Noelle

[swift knot]

i mean you can see gorou as a support for noelle too

[pearl bone]

yea

but pulling Gorou means pulling Itto

[swift knot]

nah youll miss itto trust

[pearl bone]

i've got too many teams already

[swift knot]

honestly same

i didnt need to pull for ganyu

or raiden

or koko

but i did

so like

i really didnt need koko considering i had all other hydro units in the game

honestly hutao and childe teams are like all i need

[ionic cape]

the Q auto in the vid is 3s 1000ms

[swift knot]

Q auto?

the string?

N4?

[ionic cape]

N4

[swift knot]

his ult is 11s

that sounds tight af

if youre trying to fit 2*(N4+C5)

[pearl bone]

N4+2*(C5)

[ionic cape]

wait ill frame count the CA

[swift knot]

oh

[pearl bone]

so C5 + N4 + C5

[swift knot]

is that what we're going for?

how are you gonna build the stakcs before hand

[pearl bone]

said it before, E at start of rotation

[swift knot]

srry mustve missed that

[ionic cape]

how to download the streamable vid

[pearl bone]

or if u really really want a chill rotation just go

N4 + C5

[static mural]

henlo

[swift knot]

hi

[ionic cape]

hi

[pearl bone]

[swift knot]

c5 n4 c5 seems pretty reasonable

[pearl bone]

that rotation also translates into C1 and C2

[swift knot]

i mean i guess we'll see how long his CA looks

[pearl bone]

C6 i think it's just C5 C5 C5

bonk bonk bonk

[swift knot]

[pearl bone]

maybe not

[swift knot]

oh shit

the vid id out

of his CA

[static mural]

can someone give me as sample of a framecount sheet bc i only know speedrun frame counting

[swift knot]

with superlative stakcs

dude why do i always do that with the word stacks

[pearl bone]

yeah 4 Kesagiri + 1 final

[swift knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19jtKm0nGkg8XINZewVuebrHpnuzt69vZMR8WjmjGjdw/edit#gid=0

this is the one artesians references in his framecoutning vid

[swift knot]

seems like 3-4s ish?

that's actually wild

[pearl bone]

i was basing my guess on Eula's rotation during Q

if Eula could fit 2 N4s during 7s

[static mural]

needs access lol

[swift knot]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19jtKm0nGkg8XINZewVuebrHpnuzt69vZMR8WjmjGjdw/edit?usp=sharing

whoops

[pearl bone]

Itto sure could fit more

[swift knot]

try that one @static mural

[swift knot]

how much more

[pearl bone]

frame count

[swift knot]

:nod:

ive never framecounted anything

[pearl bone]

im too lazy to do it

[swift knot]

i think one time someone told me a software to do it with

[ionic cape]

https://fxtwitter.com/genshin_intel/status/1448507541873328135?s=21

this is better

[swift knot]

but i didnt have enough space on my computer

[swift knot]

woah he fast

[pearl bone]

so yeah 3s-ish for the full string

i hope u dont have to dash cancel his hair combing

[ionic cape]

tbh i need someone help to download and upload the vid on youtube to do initial framcount

idk how to download

[swift knot]

idk know how to either

[ionic cape]

im screen recording the vid

[swift knot]

seems like the simplest way

unless there's actually justa download button

[ionic cape]

where is download button

[swift knot]

fuck if i know

[ionic cape]

[ionic cape]

can you also download the other one?

[pearl bone]

which one

[ionic cape]

the one with N4

[pearl bone]

link me

[ionic cape]

does the animation of his Q must be included when counting frames?

or ill start directly on atk sequence

[ionic cape]

https://streamable.com/1caou6#

[pearl bone]

i dont have the tool but ur supposed to count how many frames an certain animation takes, for example, pressing Q takes x frames, swing the sword takes x frames

[ionic cape]

so zades is right this tool is not for this kind of thing

ok i let other people do framecount then for minimal error

btw any video editor with internal timer can do the framecount

[ionic cape]

someone already have framecount

[tribal osprey]

Note that even if you didnt do it in time, you can still do it!

As long as you can prove you did your own work its ok even if its duplicated work

[muted arrow]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/q7v5pj/itto_ingame_chopping_trees/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

this help for frame counts right?

[sour egret]

keep?

[pearl bone]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10aeQK0YsiSXMTQMMASKb7BHilnXy-AoDFX8yLH7XX5A/edit?usp=sharing

[tribal osprey]

The damage formula for albedos e damage is definitely wrong

Check all the other damage formulae as well

9 proc is the maximum reasonable for albedo in this comp

[pearl bone]

ok, i dont TC Geo, will check later

[pastel ridge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/882961110490304553.gif?size=48

[fickle lance]

what is the 171K transformatives dmg from albedo?

[pearl bone]

lmao, that was from an old Kaz calc, thanks for pointing that out, deleted

def needs to recheck my Albedo calcs

[fickle lance]

I wonder if its better to have bennett buff after albedo so you could maybe get one or two more transient procs

[pearl bone]

idk, like this is for me to gauge Itto where he sits, and how he would play

one thing I learn about putting Bennet into Itto comp, is Bennet and Gorou has overlaps and sort of compete in terms of buff up time

so putting Bennet there eats a good 2-3 seconds of Gorou's and vice versa

I haven't calced ToM ZL, it might ends up being better than Bennet with full up time

and Gorou can use NO

and I think, there are good possibilities for Itto Gorou - double flex comps too

Itto just has a really long Q up time to cover with buffs

or if u have a cracked Ning, split Gorou's E and Q to cover Ning, Albedo, and Itto

[fickle lance]

yeah Bennett's buff isn't as impactful to albedo unfortunately

i've also tried calcing Itto, Geo Flex, Fischl and Beidou. But that'll likely run into energy issues

[pearl bone]

i hope Itto Gorou combo won't have insane ER req

also... if u get to C2 Itto, playing triple Geo is just too tempting

[alpine plinth]

how much better is itto sig on him? and how much is the new set important for him and albedo?

[jaunty junco]

the superlative superstrength stacks are used up during ca right?

[dapper bramble]

yes

[dapper bramble]

comparable to serpent spine means its bad as BiS 5star weapon. still ok if you dont have SS and have fund for it.

4p new set is way too good for both of them. RIP resin

[alpine plinth]

zhongli is strong enough

btw who is 2 nob 2 ap better on albedo or itto?

[ripe robin]

Pretty sure Itto's ult doesn't deal damage? So NO is useless on him.

[silk radish]

Do you know how SS compares to whiteblind? Unsure if i go for whiteblind and save money or take SS the next 2 BPs since i have none

[dapper bramble]

this is early numbers from ittomains. but everything is speculation at this point take 🧂

[silk radish]

damn whiteblind R5 is really bad. Kinda thought it would be decent atleast

guess ill just go with spine ty

[dapper bramble]

its actually good enuf as f2p weapon.

yeah if you can afford it. spine is never a bad weapon to begin with.

[silk radish]

i kinda expected it to be like top 3 since hes basically just noelle in scaling

and i have wgs so never had a reason to go for spine until now

[fickle lance]

It's interesting. Serpent Spine's DMG bonus being multiplicative to Talent MV makes it scale better for his final CA blow versus Redhorn's passive being a flat additive MV

[dapper bramble]

yeah they really need to buff itto wpn. i expect it to be atleast 20% more dps than any current weapon as a BiS.

[silk radish]

Is moving from DM to jade or homa even a 20% increase on xiao? Same with DB vs homa on hu tao

dont think most signatures are 20% better than the best 4 star alternative

[dapper bramble]

i only has hutao wpn rank and its way too much dps increase. as expected from her BiS

[silk radish]

that feels weird had no idea it was that good

[dapper bramble]

25% on r1. 55% on r5. compare tu dm r1

[silk radish]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/805680026229276696/896624124321988608/weapon.png this is xiaos

was bigger than i thought

[cursive kestrel]

What are the assumptions here?

[silk radish]

saw someone in itto mains say that the math was off on that

[cursive kestrel]

ok lol

How does the Redhorn's passive work in dmg%

is the formula just flat dmg total number added into your outgoing dmg, or?

[muted arrow]

like pike

[silk radish]

you sure? The wording is very different. Pike says additional dmg. While redhorn says increased

[muted arrow]

both are practically additional MV

difference is that horn adds it on top of your damage, which matters because it means it scales off geo

while pike just generates a physical it regardless

[silk radish]

but then its not like pike

then its totally different

[muted arrow]

the only difference is that one is gonna be phys the other is geo

the damage is calculated in the exact same way

raiden resolve related buffs are also like this

and so are zhongli hp related buffs

to make it even closer to the context, it works in the same way as itto's passive

[dapper bramble]

the english translation is exactly like his ascension passive (which can be wrong if its mistranslation). but if its true then its a bad passive.

his passive increase AK dmg by 35% def which is measly 1k dmg if you have 3k def, while redhorn passive r1 is lower than that.

i wish its a mistranslation but if true the passive is very bad ngl

[red umbra]

Did some calcs on Itto's potential survivability, may be potentially useful? Unsure about defence and resistance formula but if assumptions hold it would appear he can run with crystallize as his only source of defensive support fairly easily

If someone well versed in dmg and defense formulae could check i havent fucked up somewhere monumentally that would be appreciated

[red umbra]

So itto can tank magu keni attacks

[red umbra]

I can't buy bp on mobile
Gotta fix my laptop and get back into PC gaming

[tender carbon]

would the unforged be worth considering? for those who tried to pull engulfing lmao

SS pog

[jaunty junco]

Unforged (and WGS) won't be of much use to Itto since he doesn't scale well with atk%-

[warped kernel]

someone just pointed something out to me thats pretty important for Raikh's combo calcs, which is also, I assume, the reason as to why Brizjk's calcs show a different combo

I cannot be sure about Brizjk's numbers, since of course I dont know what stats he assumed or anything

so I dont know if this affects his numbers too

but since Raikh's are through pure MV, they are off since they dont account for Itto's innate defence scaling on his A4 passive

and since this scaling only affects Arataki Kesagiri, and not the other NAs

I assume the combo will change slightly

I dont have any theorised combos to suggest, but I do suggest that it is checked again

[lethal shell]

my unforged is still gna be useless

[red umbra]

Diluc with Diona can use it

[pearl bone]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10aeQK0YsiSXMTQMMASKb7BHilnXy-AoDFX8yLH7XX5A/edit?usp=sharing

[wispy torrent]

Huh

That's

Interesting

[pearl bone]

just removed 1 2 Albedo procs from Noelle, shorter rotation time on Noelle

[copper spruce]

why is albedo's damage higher on noelle comp?

[pearl bone]

his QE is outside of Bennet and Gorou in Itto, both QE gets Bennet and Gorou in Noelle

[copper spruce]

why? Isn't it better to start gorou E > bennett Q > albedo EQ then itto Q?

[pearl bone]

u lose uptime on Itto

[copper spruce]

hmm

[pearl bone]

Itto already missing 30% buff uptime with Albedo outside

too lazy to create a calc with Albedo inside for Itto

[copper spruce]

hope itto get some buffs

[frigid hound]

41k dpr for itto comp
And 43k dpr for noelle right?

[pearl bone]

lower for Noelle, cos Albedo got same amount of procs in that one, but he actually got 2 less

and if u play Noelle u would extend rotation anyway

[vernal forge]

If this was posted in #・tc-lounge, it would be kokomi x Barbara all over again

[pearl bone]

idk, Itto look good, my calc might be wrong and just add 100k more to him

or I might overinflate Noelle by a good 100k

who knows

[mighty ridge]

i know this is really early to ask but how is itto looking? kinda need to start casually picking up onikabutos

[vernal forge]

Scroll up, we had a few people doing some calcs and discussing about teams

[fickle lance]

Im curious on how good of a beidou driver he would be

[vernal forge]

Right, Can you proc beidou's Q with CA?

[fickle lance]

Yeah

U would have to run raiden though

Something like itto albedo raiden beidou

[lethal shell]

so is ss looking to be stronger than redhorn

[fickle lance]

at higher refinements yea

[pearl bone]

Itto C6 is very interesting

https://streamable.com/zurdij

so instead of letting u finish the usual Kesagiri string and preserving ur stack, it allows u to do continous Kesagiri until ur stack is exhausted

15 Kesagiri + 1 Final

[low valve]

honey impact says its a 50% chance to preserve a stack??

[red umbra]

So noelle is stronger at c6 than itto lol
Oh god this is sucrose vs kazuha all over again

[pearl bone]

stronger where

Itto's number's higher

[red umbra]

Oh I confused the 2

[gusty turret]

Well its still not looking good though

[pearl bone]

for anyone who says he's not good, Itto's doing Raiden C2 damage at C0

[reef stump]

What rotation are you assuming for his Q window?

[pearl bone]

2C5 + N4

[reef stump]

How do you manage to do that at C0?

[pearl bone]

E at beginning of rotation outside of Q, starts Q with full stack and C5, so rotation is C5 N4 C5

[reef stump]

E gives 1 stack on hit and on expiration, so even if you precast it thats 2 Stacks for the start of Q. Are you doing N3 outside of Q or assume his E is getting hit perfectly on icd?

[pearl bone]

assuming perfect hits and enemy hits

[reef stump]

Ah, ok. That is certainly ambitious.

[ionic cape]

[pearl bone]

yeah stack management is def a thing for Itto

that's why C1 is a thing

[reef stump]

C1 definitely looks interesting for his possible combos

[pearl bone]

C1 looks more tempting than C2

C2 is an unknown cos of energy

and the cd reduction is weird

feels like C2 exists just to help with C6

like they split it into 2 constellations

[reef stump]

C2 feels like bait in regards to the cdr. I don't see how you can utilize that much with hitlag extension and a Support rotation

I'm still not quite seeing C0 Itto = C2 Raiden in regards to personal damage, especially not with that combo. I have used a higher MV combo and still only get him around C6 Noelle levels of personal damage, potentially even less.

[muted arrow]

quick rotation reset to get immediate damage if you need it, combined with c1 ig

otherwise mostly good for the energy

[pearl bone]

Raiden C2 with Ben/Kaz = 500-600k personal damage

[reef stump]

If he gets full energy by the end of his Q w/o any funneling sure, but if not then you can cut maybe 2-3s at best

[pearl bone]

Itto is 500-600k with Ben and Gorou

[muted arrow]

is it worth to bring bennett over a sub dps on itto team

he doesn't even properly buff albedo

[pearl bone]

i dont like the rotation that im seeing with Bennet

[reef stump]

At what level of investment? With 30 Perfect Subs under idealized conditions I have C0 Raiden at 600k+ with Ben and Kaz. Itto similarly idealized with C6 Gorou gets me to around 550k. Bennett is around 25-30% for Itto, C2 is around 50% for Raiden and idealized Buff Uptimes favor Itto more than Raiden aswell

[pearl bone]

C0 Raiden at 600k is really high, my calc on C2 Raiden is high investment, more like 20 subs R1 Grasscutter

you can pump C2 Raiden to 700-800k with more buffs

[muted arrow]

well for 10 less subs that seems a reasonable difference

idealized conditions is all crit subs?

[reef stump]

Sure, 30 Perfect Subs is very high investment, but I used the same assumptions for Itto and only got him to around 550k with Geo Reso + T12 C6 Gorou and that is with a more damagign combo than you assumed

[reef stump]

100% Buff Uptime. Subs are split 10/20, 10 for ER first then ATK/HP/DEF and 20 Crit subs optimally distributed

[pearl bone]

did u include Bennet?

[muted arrow]

I'd say raiden gets more than itto from Bennett

itto is very mobile

raiden gets the initial slash for sure

plus I expect those big swings to stagger a lot

his kit is literally designed for him to dash while combo

I'd be really surprised if itto will be played with bennett honestly

excluding static fights

[reef stump]

Bennett is not included for Itto, no. But the point is that C0 Raiden with KazBen is already winning, while C2 is a larger deal for Raiden than Bennett is for Itto.
Its been a while since I did the Raiden one, should probably make a new clean one to make sure there weren't any silly mistakes

But even Raiden aside, I have C6 Noelle winning with 4x N4D and tying with 5x N3D for Geo Reso T12 C6 Gorou, assuming 100% Buff Uptimes (which is ofc not realistic but is also not really favoring any of the 2 in particular)

[gusty turret]

why are we not considering C2 Raiden with Sara as well? She can be hitting over a million with her.

[pearl bone]

yeah u def get Raiden C0 to 600k, but that's a very on paper vs real world kind a of thing too

[muted arrow]

idk raiden is very consistent

her aoe is also pretty meaningful

raiden hyper has to be one of the easiest rotations

ignoring energy for a second itto should also be similarly easy to execute tho

[pearl bone]

now that i checked back my Raiden calcs, ig it's not fair calling C0 Itto doing C2 Raiden damage

i just have this in my head that Raiden C2 does around 500k, ig cos I unga bunga with her and do 200-300k initial damage plus the normals

[reef stump]

Raiden init slash is usually around 30% of her total damage across a rotation, if stuff actually lives to see that, unless maybe Buffs expire quite early.

[muted arrow]

mihoyo decided meta shouldn't ever shift uh

makes sense

[muted arrow]

not only that but from the numbers I remember, kazuha should even outscale albedo in sub dps

thanks to overloads

so raiden hypercarry should do more as a whole even

[pearl bone]

mmm with the new set and weapon Albedo looks kinda similar to Kaz, but Albedo doesnt shred or buffs

[muted arrow]

when I calculated kazuha on hyper i assumed maximum AoE on 2 targets thanks to his grouping

maybe that's why

but overloads literally doubled his dpr

[pearl bone]

with physical DPS or Geo it's very easy not to shift meta or DPS envelope

they are inert DPS game design wise

[muted arrow]

yeah but I'd argue a team as limited as geo should have better raw numbers

Ig their niche is that they can't die

[pearl bone]

honestly i worry abit with Itto about not dying

if u play Eula for example, it's very easy to die

but if ppl play ZL with Itto, ig it's fine

[muted arrow]

yea but he got gorou heals, a taunt, pretty consistent crystallize, and way higher deense

should be fine

I'd say zhongli might be required to keep spine stacks

[pearl bone]

i forgot his 3k DEF

[muted arrow]

mostly

[pearl bone]

Gorou cons, what a trap/bait by MHY

they took what they did with Sara and make it even baitier

[muted arrow]

funny part about these noelle vs itto calcs is that they both include c6 gorou, and if you get him that high odds are you end up with a c1 itto lol so the comparison is hard to make at this stage, realistically

[pearl bone]

yeah

but i mean, what's the point of playing Geo now without C6 Gorou

Geo powercreep

im skipping Itto, so the calc is to look at my Noelle (cos im thinking of pulling Albedo), and it's a fun comp, or double Geo

if ur a serious Geo player, there's a lot to look at and invest into

C1/C2 Itto, C6 Gorou

team rotation and comp, where to slot in Albedo rotation

to Bennet or not to Bennet

to ZL or not to ZL

so there is still a lot to TC about Itto

[muted arrow]

yeah ig, zhongli with itto-bennett would prob have the same issue in rotation as albedo to boost his burst

maybe some itto gorou zl fischl team

wanted to say xq but his swords won't proc with itto's swings

[pearl bone]

now if someone does a calc of Ittoless and Gorouless Geo comp that is close to Itto, I'd be worried

Noelle-GeoMC-Bennet-flex for example

[muted arrow]

zhongli driver

[pearl bone]

ZL driver is not really playing GEo

[muted arrow]

yeah yeah jk

[pearl bone]

the thing about Itto is, his damage ceiling doesnt change much throughout his cons

[muted arrow]

the way I see it c1 and 2 just remove any kind of potential clunkiness from his kit

[pearl bone]

yeah

[reef stump]

In addition to the DEF he also gets 20% Omni RES in Q. He should be pretty sturdy

[pearl bone]

yeah it should make everything outside the hardest hitting enemies do only chip damage

or ig facetanking Kenki for 1/3 health might be bad ass too

[muted arrow]

although increased crit rate and crit damage consts are pretty guaranteed damage increase unless u meant just the first few ones

[reef stump]

Probably can cover most situations handily with a bit of Crystallize and Gorou C4

Just gotta have your Geo Units at 90

[pearl bone]

eeeh forgot those existed, C6 50% extra CD is nice

but he will be pretty saturated with CD as well

[reef stump]

C6 might end up taking more DEF% Subs when you have 25% CR from C4 and 90% CD from Itto+Gorou C6

[muted arrow]

if you use spine he's gonna be saturated at everything pretty much

which would make it fine for everything, in turn

you have 2 million attack, something like 130% damage buffs, and a bit higher crit damage averaged down by crit rate

shouldn't hit diminishing returns for cdmg

[pearl bone]

his C4 is copy paste of Yanfei's C2, not sure I like it

i dont like relying on conditional buffs like that, especially one that conditional

[onyx junco]

so in short, itto is looking copium?

[muted arrow]

he's looking geo

geo specializes in mediocre, yet comfy runs

he's gonna be as easy as noelle to build so

that's another factor

[pearl bone]

just slapping the 50% CD quickly, the C6 is 9-10% increase

[reef stump]

I'm a bit bummed by his current throughput estimations but then again our current frames are janky as almost always this early and a lot of units got some MV Buffs over the course of Beta

[onyx junco]

let's pray for a shit ton of tweaks and buffs then

[pearl bone]

like Itto is gonna be very comfy and consistent damage

imagine the average players with ZL and just N4 C5 in his Q

[reef stump]

From what I've seen E -> N3 -> SCA4D > N3 -> SCA4 D -> E might be back on the table, which is a pretty promising combo

[muted arrow]

yeah and his dashes don't cancel combos

which is quite nice

considering that even tho his apparent dps ceiling isn't that high, it still is more enough for abyss, if you add the comfy playstyle you have... uh noelle

[lethal shell]

shld i skip hutao for itto

[reef stump]

Question is how much above Noelle he is for me. Like Noelle can do some interesting stuff as she cna switch out freely for maximum Buff uptime and skill use uptime. So Noelle could possibly outoptimize an Itto depending on how large the difference is

[muted arrow]

well to me an unwritten advantage noelle seems to have is definitely range

itto's swings look large but aoe wise noelle seems superior to me

[reef stump]

might very well be the case

[pearl bone]

Itto has more vertical reach it seems, I wouldnt be surprised that Itto's almost as big as Noelle's AoE even if the animation look smaller

im a bit sad that his animation is not a bonk but upward slashes

[past garden]

Is it still Itto C2 that people are theorizing as the best to pull for, or is it higher or lower now? 😮

[pearl bone]

we dont know for now, depends on ur team too\

[reef stump]

In a vacuum I have Noelle matching or beating Itto atm. Ofc it might just end up being the case that Noelle realizing that dmg is not happening but it looks too tight for me right now. Especially givne 4* vs 5* and the utility Noelle brings on top

[pearl bone]

and dont listen to anyone, especially me cos im not pulling Itto

[reef stump]

I wanted it to be the HoS Ult Bonks, would've been great

[muted arrow]

also noelle has no issues using ning's c2 to battery

so I'd say she's also more versatile in terms of team comps as a whole

for now

[onyx junco]

how much better is noelle getting tho? in terms of dps ofc

[pearl bone]

and i just slapped 18Kesagiri+1 Final vs 2C5 N4, it's around 23% difference

so C6 is looking like 30+% damage gain

combined with the CD bonus

[muted arrow]

dpr or just his uptime dps

[reef stump]

The C6 combo in that video is only about 8s though, he can fit something else in there

and he can extend with E

[pearl bone]

in vid, he got 15 Kesagiri, I added a few more to 18

[reef stump]

Ah, ok

Just checked, thats only about 3.6k MV

surprisingly low tbh

[pearl bone]

would be funny if his best combo is actually C2 N2 C2 N2 chain something like that

maximising final slash

[reef stump]

This combo: E -> N3 -> SCA4D > N3 -> SCA4 D -> E has ~3.7k MV and might actually be doable. Ofc less additonal A4 dmg but still

[pearl bone]

yeah TCing Itto will be a lot of fun

and it's content dependent too

[reef stump]

Short combos don't seem that greta since the Kessagiri start-up has a roughly 18 frames dash start up

So if you do super short combos you stack up quite a lot of wind-up and recovery frames

[pearl bone]

i dont hope short combos will be optimal, cos it will be anti fun

and it doesnt look like it as well

[reef stump]

Yeah, would seem kinda silly

but with the start up and the stacking ATK SPD

they should have covered for that for the most part

Generally still super on the fence with him though. I really want something that exists outside of the Bennett-Kaz sphere but not quite sure if Itto is gonna be the fit for me.

[ionic cape]

some buff happens

[pearl bone]

[muted arrow]

where

[pearl bone]

Auntie Eru's pre-leak

wait that sounds wrong

[reef stump]

Sounds interesting but no idea how to evaluate an energy related Buff when the energy situation is unknown to begin with.

[pearl bone]

they are testing in beta

so the original energy must be problematic

[muted arrow]

energy change might also change cd remember

[reef stump]

If they made Itto a 70/18 or 60/15 they'd kinda need to rework his C2 though

[muted arrow]

maybe they can rework his duration too tho

a shorter rotation would help him

and he'd fit better with bennett

[reef stump]

Pretty large scale change but would be interesting

[pearl bone]

"Dealing damage of a different element will reset this buff".

lmaaaoooo

mono Geo let's goooo

[reef stump]

4Geo Meta

Anemo stonks go down

100% Ele dmg is pretty sick though

[muted arrow]

lol they went ham

tbf 2.3 abyss doesn't seem the easiest

maybe it's to balance that?

[reef stump]

Still need comps to abuse that

any reaction comp is immediately disqualified form that Buff

[muted arrow]

was this speculation btw

[ionic cape]

just trust

[muted arrow]

[ionic cape]

just trust

[pearl bone]

[ionic cape]

wait some people can also view this right even they dont join this thread?

time to delete

[pearl bone]

i have screenshot

[ionic cape]

maybe im clown

[reef stump]

A bit late but still want to clarify:
The Dmg Calc is a proper one and not just a MV translation, so Itto's A4 is included.
The difference in combos between Brizjk and me come from taking different ends of the framecounts for the SCA Finisher. I took the high end at 80 frames, he took the low end at 44 (or 40 and 22 for the original 30 FPS count). So for me the combo he used doesn't actually fit in Itto's Q window.

That isn't to say I'm right, most likely not. I simply took a more conservative first look and I absolutely expect final combos to look better. I've already found a few combos that are stronger than the ones we got so far and they might actually be quite realistic if the more optimistic end of the frame counts turn out to be closer to reality.

[swift knot]

[ionic cape]

not a leaker btw

[pearl bone]

[reef stump]

Oh, one last thing on that. According to the newest Itto clip the fully A1 stacked SCA frames are 28-29 at 60FPS each with hitlag included according to Jrm.Spirits counts. So in those 3-4s left Itto could potentially get another 6-8 SCAs out.

[pearl bone]

the SCA came out faster in that clip I felt

buuuut, 28-29 frames each, 4 Kesa+1 Final = ~3s still line up

[reef stump]

The clip already includes the Final though, so if you get enough C6 procs you would just get more Slashes. If you need to start another combo then things look a bit different anyway.

[dapper bramble]

does the FinalCA frame still true? the new leak has FinalCA + DashCancel.

[ionic cape]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact_Leaks/comments/qb51t6/itto_multipliers_buffed_nga_uncle/

told you

[pearl bone]

they want to give Itto 100k CA after all

[ionic cape]

yah

[jolly dragon]

EULA POWERCREPT

[frigid hound]

Final hit is now 1k%

copium btw inb4 it becomes real

[muted arrow]

20 flat damage added on top of each final hit

[reef stump]

I'd expect the usual 10-15% higher MV on the AA Talent. Thats what they usually do. Unless Itto was way off expectations.

[reef stump]

From the new frame counts vs the Fel Whopperflower the final SCA looks to be faster than what I assumed but not quite as fast as the best case scenario from before. But given its with hitlag this time around thats still pretty good.
Only thing I'm not sure about is if the dash was as early as possible, quite hard to see.

[low valve]

no way

[ionic cape]

i said it before you thought im joking

[latent vortex]

Itto still worth pulling if I don’t have zhongli? I have albedo tho

[reef stump]

ZL doesn't look particularly important for Itto, more of a good comfort option, but not necessary. Albedo is great to have though as he seems to be shaping up as the best Sub DPS for Itto Teams.

[dapper bramble]

we still dont know how much increased right?

[ionic cape]

[modern iron]

nope

[modern iron]

yes albedo works with itto more than zhongli anyway

[muted arrow]

we still don't know if it has increased

beta update is usually on monday

but at times they do some preload and stuff later in the week

however if he got buffed we should've known by now

let's wait for Gintel ig

[gusty turret]

https://genshin.honeyhunterworld.com/db/char/itto/?lang=EN

https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/wCE8LQRTabS_50wVcitD3FIdbVMdecIdu06Z0vmJeZI/https/media.discordapp.net/attachments/799506795252547584/900045276239237180/unknown.png

these are the old scalings

actually huge buffs

damn

[muted arrow]

just NA tho

idk how much this helps him

lol

although maybe this leads him to different rotations?

who knows

[gusty turret]

well

at c0 you need to build stacks anyways

so it helps him ig

a bit

[muted arrow]

his burst cost got reduced

to 70

cd 18 s

[fickle lance]

dam

pretty big

the NA buffs help big time, as it was a bit of a dps sink in his rotation

[heavy elbow]

1.25x increase on his N4 huh

[red umbra]

So pyro itto is an option

[red umbra]

60% increase

[heavy elbow]

did... i read it wrong?

[red umbra]

So now he officially powercreeps Noelle

Higher NA plus faster atk speed

[heavy elbow]

156.62/126.43

oh?

i only looked at the screenshot above, where did it say about the attack speed?

[red umbra]

His ult has atk speed

[heavy elbow]

oh

i mean a 1.25x increase from the previous multipliers

[red umbra]

Oh okay

1.25 is correct

[heavy elbow]

hmmm, plugging it into the last tc-template-v.1.0 sheet gives me a 5% increase to the 21 second rotation, but maybe the energy cost changes the rotation

im gonna need to see more of a change than just this buff to pull itto probably :p

[red umbra]

46 ult cost with 4 geo team lol

7seconds down time enough to switch to every teammate

Well if C2 that is

[fickle lance]

5% dps increase to a rotation isn't crazy but its still material

[heavy elbow]

5% ignoring rotation changes, I'd assume the energy/cd change gives him a bit more than that

[nocturne sorrel]

what combo are we assuming for itto

[muted arrow]

If you can trim the rotation to 19s that's pretty huge

[copper spruce]

did we have new calculations for weapons?

i mean can his weapon outdamage serpent now?

[fickle lance]

what are you guys assuming for just Itto's portion of the rotation? 2x 5CA and N4 in ~13-14 seconds?

[vernal forge]

Noelle gets more ATK by def tho, right?

[hasty quail]

Someone did a video showing that a 5CA>N4>5CA ends up running a perfect amount of time for his burst iirc thanks to his attack speed buff

[nocturne sorrel]

can you even lead with 5CA without C1

[warped kernel]

Just do 3N4 before ult 4head

But no pretty much lol

[reef stump]

Just buffing his NA combo that much is a bit weird tbh

Redhorn Buff is roughly a 5% total dmg increase

making it beat out R5 SS by 1-2%

[hasty quail]

people were mentioning how his NA combo was weaker than Noelles so they saw fit to buff it to silence that stuff

[fickle lance]

makes sense

it looks like his CA can potentially hit enemies to the side of him, almost behind him?

[reef stump]

Going off the current frames I have, with those NA Buffs, just spamming NA is legitimately not that bad anymore.

Like, seemingly competitive even

[nocturne sorrel]

that might be the f2p c0 option

[reef stump]

can jsut ignore his CAs and you're fine

which would be really stupid

[fickle lance]

yeah I'm getting similar results. in a 5 CA > 4 NA > 5 CA rotation, the NA's resulted in a dps loss, but now its slightly above even

although I'm not sure if I'm accounting for hitlag correctly in the NA string

[reef stump]

Hitlag is still in the open, but so is hitlag extension

So how much that really matters in the end is up in the air

[fickle lance]

need some footage of him hitting multiple enemies

and what kind of knockback his attacks have

[reef stump]

His A4 is probably gonna cover some ground to keep CAs ahead past the initial MV considerations. But it still looks too close for comfort

[patent galleon]

so tier for tier Redhorn is slightly better now than R5 SS? tho the difference honestly still seems negligible

[fickle lance]

yea his N3 dash looks solid tbh

[reef stump]

Its still absolutely negligible, yeah. Rather than slightly below its now slightly ahead

[nocturne sorrel]

his a4 only really gets value at c6, otherwise you're ramping up to 40% atk speed then getting the bonus for one hit before resetting

[reef stump]

A4 is the DEF MV on his CAs

The ATK SPD is his A1

[nocturne sorrel]

oh woops

[reef stump]

his C6 is gonna suffer from that change quite a bit though. Even some mad 20 SCA chain doesn't look overwhelmingly more powerful than what other combos based on current frames can do. And C6 can still betray you and give you only a small extension which would be absolutely negligible

Overall Buff is welcome, but it feels like its endangering his core mechanics a little bit. Doing some mad big brain combo to do only a small amount of damage more than somebody just hammering N3D/N4D would be a bit sad.

[nocturne sorrel]

mad big brain combo that consists of winning consecutive coin flips

[reef stump]

I also mean generally doing some more complex combos at C0/1

[red umbra]

ig the argument for redhorn is qol basically

no worrying about stack building and maintenance, no waiting a patch for each refinement

still not rlly worth tho

[glass rampart]

Considering itto is a tank that shouldn't need a shield due to his sheer defense and damage reduction, I think not having to maintain SS stacks is huge.

[fickle lance]

yeah SS actually limits his team comps a bit. he either needs to be able to get crystalize shields or run zhongli

or be really good at dodging I guess

[glass rampart]

speaking from experience, i dont have zhongli so i run diluc with kazuha and no shield. SS stacks are a pain

[red umbra]

yeah, if u want to run crystallize as ur only source of dmg mitigation/heals then spine becomes a little problematic

well not "Heals" but healer slot

[reef stump]

Crystallize is smth you might want with Gorou C2 anyway and given just how much effectice dmg reduction Itto has those might take care of a lot.
And tbh if losing Stacks all the time is an issue you mgiht want a shielder anyway

[red umbra]

would be interesting to see how redhorn compares to smth like 3 stacks spine

[reef stump]

Thats not hard, lemme check

[glass rampart]

Still think c6 Bennett is bis for this team cuz you can easily crystallize

[red umbra]

I think lower refine spines and/or lower stacks spine would be interesting in general

[reef stump]

R5 3 Stack SS = R1 5 Stack SS

[red umbra]

noice

im probably gonna end up getting r3 spine for itto and run that on him

[reef stump]

Virtually identical given that 5 Stacka R1 = 30%

and 3 Stacks R5 = 30%

[red umbra]

as a general rule i dont like summoning for weps with less than a 10% increase over 4*s

[reef stump]

R1 Redhorn /w Buffs

[red umbra]

although it does depend on the other weapon on the banner

[reef stump]

R1 5 Stacks SS/ R5 3 Stacks SS

Roughly 10% difference

[red umbra]

sweet

[reef stump]

Still quite tame

Atleast in opposition to stuff like Homa and Mistsplitter that clock in at 20-30% over their respective 4* alternatives for HT and Ayaka respectively

Still gotta update the sheet for the Buffs Itto himself received though

Higher MVs skew it slightly in Serpents favor due to the extra MV from Redhorn mattering less comparatively but likely won't change much anyway

[fickle lance]

yeah kind of a shame Redhorn's passive is just a flat MV add as opposed to something like homa where it adds attack based on defense

[cursive kestrel]

I just realized Redhorn got changed to a 88CV/561 or so base attack like jade cutter

That's pretty hype for itto/noelle, how much does it affect the difference between it + spine tho?

[fickle lance]

there are two pictures right above

[latent vortex]

What would I put on the 4th slot for an Itto/Albedo/Gurou team? (I don't have zhongli)

[ancient pecan]

fischl would be good

[waxen idol]

A different shielder, Bennett, an off-field damage dealer

[ionic cape]

im right about his energy reduction

now wait for the wep changes

[muted arrow]

eru what's up with this buffs revert mess

[ionic cape]

honey dont want mihoyo attention again ig

[onyx junco]

so the NA are not getting buffed?

[ionic cape]

its gonna get buffed, someone said it to me; aa dmg, energy cost, weapon

im holding on that info

[patent galleon]

where did these buffs even come from then if they arent real? seems odd that Honey updated but then reverted

[waxen idol]

Isn't the site hosted in a country where leaks cant be taken down as easily?

[muted arrow]

maybe honey deleted it because it's preload stuff and not even yet in live beta?

[ionic cape]

but they are not fully immune

[reef stump]

Honey should get their stuff from data mining, so feeding false info shouldn't be a thing unless an entire Beta Build was pulled

[ionic cape]

they get data from clout, so its very volatile to changes

[reef stump]

Guess I keep the updated sheets and just wait what happens before I revert and have to update again a few days later

[muted arrow]

theoretically, does the burst change mean itto can run a shorter team rotation?

[reef stump]

No idea, yet. I won't do any team rotation stuff till the character is live

especially given we have 2 new characters for that team

and still don't have confirmation of their energy gen

[glass rampart]

i think this is a spine problem, not the new weapon

[hasty quail]

well that's good to hear

[glass rampart]

spine is too broken

[patent galleon]

spine is a 5* labeled as a 4*

[glass rampart]

i think the weapon is getting changed further tho

[reef stump]

It is to a degree, doesn't help the poor 5* Claymores though because SS isn't going anywhere and easily accessible to anyone not entirely f2p

[glass rampart]

the passive being a flat increase is incredibly bad

as opposed to all the recent weapons

[lethal shell]

shld i aim for spine refinements from now on then?

[fickle lance]

probably the best refinements out of the bp weapons

[glass rampart]

the best weapon in general*

[lethal shell]

i shouldnt have gotten r4 black sword

[fickle lance]

....who are you using that on?

[lethal shell]

technically its r3 but i got a spare lvl 1

[lethal shell]

keqing is unfortunately benched alr

so i decided to build sub-dps kazuha

though he doesnt benefit from the refinement

[fickle lance]

black sword refines pretty well from what I recall if you have characters that can exploit the passive

so if you have characters that use it then its fine

[lethal shell]

yeah keqing uses it quite well

[glass rampart]

there isnt a single claymore that cant use SS tho

and refines are insane

it compares to stuff like wgs

[fickle lance]

maybe he doesn't main any claymores

[glass rampart]

bis for beidou, noelle

[lethal shell]

the only claymore i semi use is diluc

[glass rampart]

near bis for diluc

[lethal shell]

but i got unforged from losing in raiden banner

[fickle lance]

yeah just start refining SS from now on if you plan on using a claymore character

[glass rampart]

[lethal shell]

im still stuck between hutao/itto tbh

[glass rampart]

my only 5 star claymore is fucking pride r2

[fickle lance]

yeah fair atleast you can hold onto your next bp weapon until hu tao banners basically over

[low valve]

Is this with 88 crit dmg redhorn?

[reef stump]

Yes

[low valve]

That's a lot of crit dmg but

It was updated to show redhorn doesn't actually have that right?

[lethal shell]

the changes were reverted on honey

[reef stump]

For now they were reverted

I will leave my sheets as is however, given that we don't know whats up and I don't want to play a back and forth

[lethal shell]

it cld be honey just not wanting to be blamed if mihoyo doesnt actually buff

[hasty quail]

he really needs those buffs so I sure hope it's just a for now-thing

[frigid hound]

Give it a day or 2

And u will see if it does get back

[hasty quail]

yeah hopefully...though not expecting anything till next tuesday

[reef stump]

Neither of the Buffs seem like massive game changers. Cumulatively possibly significant but a lot of it was up in the air

[unique rover]

the cost though...

[reef stump]

I would actually welcome if they reiterated on the MV Buff, because the overall dmg gain for intended Itto Gameplay is small but it seemingly allows for him to just skip on CAs entirely for not too much of a loss

[unique rover]

would have been good

[pearl bone]

is Itto buff even a buff if it only affects his normals and not Kesagiri

Raikh did u calc that normals are better than Kesagiri now

[reef stump]

I got 6-7% on regular mxied combos for the NA Buff

Not strictly better but comparable

[pearl bone]

MHY casualizing Itto

[low valve]

Wasn't kesagiri like

The main part of itto

[patent galleon]

the CD/Ult cost buffs were nice tho IMO. i would prefer they keep those out of everything else

[frigid hound]

when technical itto

[gusty turret]

Was there any explanation to what happened on Honey with the buffs or...?

[reef stump]

A4 would surely make CA combos pull ahead, but it looks a bit too close for comfort

[frigid hound]

Wait for it

Its probably just a mistake

Or mhy doing some pepega changes

[unique rover]

would have been nice if they buffed it so like they can adjust his ca's or sumn

just my thought

domino effect or sumn

[pearl bone]

dragonpunch input for Kesagiri final slash

[frigid hound]

Plunge then the final hit does its thing

[pearl bone]

i actually dont mind if they overtune Itto a bit

but with Geo, every powercreep u have is hard powercreep ig

every power u give Itto rn will eat into future Geo characters

[pearl bone]

cos it fits his character

[reef stump]

Atleast in a vacuum I have C6 Noelle beating C0 Itto prior to any of these Buffs. That can ofc change with the nature of rotations, although Terra confirmed that the combos I used for Noelle fit in a 20s rot.

And Noelle can also freely swap for getting Buffs back up and such, while being shielder and healer

[pearl bone]

if i change my Itto combo to follow yours and tweak Noelle, she can outperform Itto too ig

[reef stump]

The combo I used has more effective MV than SCA5 N4 SCA5 even

[pearl bone]

honestly tho if Im MHY I'd at least get Itto to have 30% margin from Noelle in any situation

[reef stump]

I hope so, yeah. Especially given that a 30% advantage over Noelle doesn't even mean a 30% Team dmg increase

with how chunky Albedo becomes

[pearl bone]

Itto doesnt bring any utility

yeah Albedo getting chonky, and actually a big consideration in rotations

i wonder if double rotation length (2x20s) calculation is going to make Itto better or worse

cos u definitely want to snapshot Albedo

[reef stump]

I'd probably give the advantage to Noelle since Noelle can do a never-ending rotation with her ability to swap freely

[gusty turret]

Stop, he's already dead

[reef stump]

Whereas Itto is bound to actually design a rotation around his uptime windows and energy demands

[pearl bone]

we dont know, this is pre pre pre TC

dw!

[reef stump]

yeah, its still very speculative

[hasty quail]

Honestly they really should. imo his best comp (the mono-geo team) oughta be about as strong as Hu Tao's best team

||we don't talk about Ganyu||

[reef stump]

I think where caution is advised in any case is looking at the shiny Itto numbers with the new Set and a C6 Gorou in his back

and forgetting Noelle gets the same stuff

[hasty quail]

I mean Itto has his CA. That's where his big damage comes from

[unique rover]

is atk speed accounted for ady

[pearl bone]

i dont mind Itto getting another 100-200k dpr, or even around C0 Homaless Tao. I was thinking that his animation and hit box will be really big but it's looking very normal

like Itto players should get 50k Kesagiris 100k Final

maybe abit too strong, with Albedo on top but idk

[hasty quail]

yeah I was seeing....60k? kesagiris and 97k-ish for the final one

[reef stump]

I have 33.5k and 61.7k avg For R5 SS C0 T10 Itto buffed with a T12 C6 Gorou and 30 perfect Subs which is mad investment for the average player

[hasty quail]

I'll have no complaints if Itto at best ends up around Hu Tao's at-best level. If he's only at around Xiao's level I'll be p disappointed/upset

[gusty turret]

I don't have a problem with him being Xiao level

My problem is he being Xiao level while fucking Noelle is better than him at DPSing

[tribal osprey]

xiao level is good wym

i dont get this xiao shit

xiao performs well even on sheets, and 0% of his damage is lost to aoe

even at st he can collision plunge so theres 0 problems

[hasty quail]

feels like there's a big gulf of difference between how xiao performs vs. the other new post-launch DPS's

just feels like half the time I'm punished for using him and not rolling for Ganyu/Hu Tao/Ayaka/Eula

[onyx junco]

i dont think you should regret not getting eula tbh

[tribal osprey]

xiao definitely performs really well even if it doesnt look like it

comparing big numba to tao is an easy way to lose sight of shit, theres a reason why they specialise differently

[potent turtle]

is this also the place to ask about ittou claymore?

[tribal osprey]

you can ask but no one has answers

[patent galleon]

I see this a lot as well, I’ve never had an issue with my Xiao’s performance In game/abyss. But people seem to think his lvl of DPS is now bad/underwhelming

Itto being at Xiao lvl is more or less what I would at least expect of a Geo DPS

[frigid hound]

Its a raw dps unit

More or less its gonna be around those areas

Unless they give him some big ass multis

[modern iron]

xiao can function with anything while gouro needs a high con gouro with high tallents and gouro limits your character selections

for this draw back

an itto team must out dps a xiao team because its not worth the extra effort for the same output

[patent galleon]

do we have any idea of Itto's AoE potential? thats honestly the one thing about him that worries me. His CA is where a majority of his dmg comes from right?, yet his slashes look very vertical rather than horizontal.....which makes me think he might struggle against multitarget situations on his own.

[tribal osprey]

whoever told you xiao can work with anything needs to check their math

[red umbra]

Xiao needs sucrose or jean for energy, zhongli,.diona or Noelle for shields and a buffer like Bennett which is overall more flexible than full geo team

And due to being anemo and plunge collision he can take out almost any abyss shield quickly the only down side are anemo immune enemies

[tribal osprey]

Xiao cannot run only jean, he needs specifically a sucrose, in a very tight rotation that only gives him 3 ults anyway. For a shielder, both noelles and diona uptime is too trash to be significant, and he pretty much requires zl anyway cause shred. Buffer wise, bennett isnt tthe best, he needs a specialised geo to do shit, aka albedo. This is a comp that drastically loses damage if anyone is swapped out

Id say its just as stiff

[red umbra]

Jean with sacrificial or favonious sword can work

[tribal osprey]

Sucrose provides 12 particles, sac sword jean is only 9

Your rotation will be worse and your xiao will run more er

Xiao has just as inflexible a comp as monogeo

[red umbra]

Less resources to spend then

[red umbra]

Rlly strange that some ppl consider xiao to be definitively worse than hutao eula ayaka

Ig he’s less bursty and provides consistency over ceiling which makes him seem worse than he is but still having played xiao I have no idea how ppl come to that conclusion

If itto is xiao level I’d be extremely happy tbh

[ionic cape]

[dapper bramble]

i dont want to fight about xiao in itto thread, but as someone who triple crowned and used him from the 1st day of his release, 100% used him in abyss after that, never leave my world team. he is definitely abit lackluster. imo.

[ionic cape]

the question is who will battery itto at c0

[reef stump]

He himself, Sac GS Itto, you heard it here first. His E has the best MV/s of his kit anyway

[ionic cape]

[dapper bramble]

i might give zhongli and gorou favo if he needs it. i dont want to build er on itto.

[reef stump]

Not needing any ER on Itto seems incredibly optimistic. 130-140% ballpark shoud be expected imo, looking at Eula or Noelle.

If he needs more, I bring the shovel for the burial

[tribal osprey]

he might need more tbh

eula has diona and rosaria as options

noelle can swap in and out

itto is in the element with the worst generation on average, with an incredibly long selfish period, and is thus unable to fully utilise even the less effective batteries his element has

[reef stump]

I still have some hope that with both Itto's and Gorou's particle gen being unconfirmed that it will work out with moderate levels of ER. If not I'm not sure what to think. He doesn't seem highly tuned enough to me to be able to get away with running high amounts of ER.

But ofc the tuning itself can also change till release

[muted arrow]

genshin logic

high ER requirements on hypercarries that aren't super strong like itto or eula

meanwhile ganyu

burst carries get penalized for having a kit focused on burst

meanwhile non burst carries get it for free

feels like it should be the contrary

[reef stump]

Ganyu doesn't get her Q for free either, more a product of her Teams or her not relying on it.

[muted arrow]

they should make it easier for burst carries to use their burst since their dps drops off otherwise

[muted arrow]

that's what I meant

ganyu has the perfect battery in her team in relation to cost

eula has it rougher due to higher cost

[reef stump]

I think its fine if ER is desirable, but units should be tuned around it or have secondary gains from ER like Mona or Raiden

[muted arrow]

wdym, can't you see the c2 in itto tailored to fix this problem?

[reef stump]

Gotta spend a few hundred bucks to get a 20 cost reduction on Itto

[muted arrow]

devs be like, your rotation is clunkier due to stacks building process? C1. Energy issues? C2

create issues sell the solution

[reef stump]

I can do that aswell:
Itto has unbearable energy issues: the problem
not pulling Itto: the solution

Gacha will be Gacha but I hope they are not doing dumb shit where a 5* character is just half-disfunctional w/o Cons

[muted arrow]

yeah if itto comes out so disfunctional it's a skip for me

[wispy torrent]

There's an easy way to fix this.

Just pull Albedo instead of Itto.

[reef stump]

I'm on the fence of thinking about attempting to go for both

[red umbra]

idk if albedo is that worth if ur not planning on running a comp with gorou tho tbh

maybe nice for xiao geobros ig?

[alpine crown]

why would you not run gorou?

[red umbra]

if ur not running itto/noelle

[muted arrow]

geo is just a massive expense that doesn't seem worth the price, I mean compare getting raiden c2 + sara c6 vs getting itto c2 + gorou c6

the expense is the same

[alpine crown]

ah i thought you meant with itto lol

[muted arrow]

but for one of them the pay off is much larger

[red umbra]

yeah was just in reference to someone saying pull albedo instead of itto

[reef stump]

Albedo still gets 20-30% more dmg out of Cinnabar + new Set, so Duo Geo Tao/Xiao is getting a bit stronger

In case of doubt of Itto/Geo comps not getting off the ground smh

[red umbra]

yeah he's not bad now but that niche isn't rlly enough to be worth pulling imo

[alpine crown]

even then pulling albedo is painful

[red umbra]

double geo tao will still be suboptimal