No problem

[teal garden]

your hyperbloom team doesn't need you to normal

walk around to better psotition yourself. if you want to normal on anyone normal on nahida

you'll get familiar with enemy movement patterns and know when you can normal attack on kuki to group enemies

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMjqgV_9Yyk

afk the first side

[timid zenith]

I am able to do it in 2 minutes like that but my rational just isn't that strong to do the second half in 1 minute

[teal garden]

grind and reset a bit

or consider a freeze team

ganyu mona diona kazuha, can do first half in about 1:30 when you group properly

[timid zenith]

Mona isn't built

[teal garden]

does she have some burst levels?

she just needs 270ER artifacts and ttds, ideally some burst levels

if you don't have that you can try with barbara, but advantage over hyperbloom team kind of fades away

[timid zenith]

So should I build Mona on a priority basis?

[teal garden]

if you don't plan to build kokomi and have a ganyu built mona kazuha is a good aoe option

you currently don't have that many team options

so get your bases covered

[timid zenith]

Is this build good?

[teal garden]

not enough ER for freeze team

you want minimum 130 and ideally higher if you're playing a scuffed team

[timid zenith]

Can you pls try this with the rational first half and hyperbloom the second half and share the recording with me if it can work ??

[teal garden]

why would you put raiden there?

when the floor is designed against her low investment teams?

when you don't have to brute force it with raiden

[timid zenith]

I was thinking aoe of rational maybe better than single target hyperbloom

[teal garden]

raiden isn't an aoe team when the aoe is designed against her

she's a single target team with lower aoe splash damage

[timid zenith]

But I don't know what's good honestly

[teal garden]

freeze team, taser, hyperbloom, burgeon if you have a team

it still feels like you should solve ungrouping first

[timid zenith]

I seriously have very low options

[teal garden]

is your ganyu or ayaka built?

if they are, try them

navia team is also ok to use, as long as you are, again, grouping lol

[timid zenith]

I did saw that vedio but grouping is easier in theory but way difficult in practice

[timid zenith]

Also due so some reason the husks are getting the boost

In navia team

Guess it has got something to do with crystalize shield and burst immunity

[teal garden]

it's not burst immunity it's just shield health

if your shield health is high they will trigger

usually crystallize shoulds shouldn't

but if you somehow have high EM on a geo character you can get a thicker shield

worse comes to worst: do your best this abyss and build some characters for april 1 reset

now is the time to slap 4pc emblem on ganyu and use kazuha tbh

[timid zenith]

So which team are you recommending

[teal garden]

ganyu kazuha flex flex
raiden national or your strongest bossing team

if your jean is built you can use ganyu kazuha furina jean

freeze team can be kind of bad and still work first half

and it's the best solution to your ungrouping issue

[timid zenith]

Wouldn't jean ungroup?

[teal garden]

not when you have kazuha and enemies are frozen

[timid zenith]

I really need to do the blizzard domain then

[teal garden]

no

just use emblem

this is abyss on the cheap

since it looks like you want to 36 this time?

just use someone's emblem

[timid zenith]

Yup

[teal garden]

including atk gob on ganyu

[timid zenith]

I just have 1 star left

[timid zenith]

Not cryo?

[teal garden]

just depends on what you can cobble together

this is abyss on the cheap

[timid zenith]

So just 4pc emblem matters

[teal garden]

yeah

you can even use sac kazuha if you want

as long ans enemies are grouped and ganyu burst is up you'll have good damage

if you're missing damage in this team somehow you can switch jean for ayaka and use kazuha burst to apply hydro

and swap furina to healer in emergencies

remember this is supposed to be cheap and scuffed

[timid zenith]

Ayaka also on 4pc emblem?

[teal garden]

yeah

this is just to make sure you have pieces for this abyss cycle

not supposed to be ideal finished builds which tend to take 3months or so to farm

[timid zenith]

So it's fine if I go with atk atk crit

Cause I just saw that I have no cryo goblet

[teal garden]

in a furina team where you have a good healer yes

if you want to see a furina ganyu jean freeze team where jean is the only grouper, one moemnt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQo_Sr8r7Lo

but I would maybe try kazuha + jean and just spam kazuha skill

[timid zenith]

I think so too

Based on these builds do you think I can do the second half in 1 minute??

I don't know if I can call these built or partially built but this is the best team I have

[teal garden]

raiden national build is good

mostly just adjust your rotation to start with raiden -> xingqiu instead of raiden -> bennett so xiangling gets more vapes

[timid zenith]

Ok

So do you think I might have a chance if I try the hyperbloom and rational team again

Or I should try for the ganyu freeze team on cheap?

[teal garden]

try hyperbloom again

since that's an already built team

and it seems like you were close

[timid zenith]

I was just about 25 seconds or something short

[teal garden]

if you give up on hyperbloom then def try the freeze team because if you give up it's probably because of grouping issues

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

One question does raiden make a better hyperbloom dps than shinobu

[teal garden]

she can trigger a tiny bit faster but doesn't make a difference

most of the time

when you want to use raiden:

If enemies run a long distance or spawn/stay far a part but you have raiden and nahida in the team, raiden together with nahida will do damage to the far away enemies while you focus on closer ones

but 12-2-1 enemies stay pretty close

[timid zenith]

I tried the ganyu team but I guess it's way too much unbuilt to work so I was thinking that since hyperbloom worked the best why not change it to raiden

[teal garden]

you can try raiden, especially if you're not sure where to stand

[timid zenith]

That would make it more consistent even if the enemies aren't grouped

[teal garden]

but try to build enough er on yaoyao so you can get everyone healed

[timid zenith]

Yeah this only

[teal garden]

this floor has corrosion and you're using furina

[timid zenith]

I have yaoyao

Also corrosion?

[teal garden]

oh wait it's not corrosion, just high damage auras

sorry (

the rumbling stone and tracking fire ball auras from the husks

[timid zenith]

Well so like with using raiden the I am able to do first half under 2 minutes

But now the problem is what should I use the second half

[teal garden]

fischl national is fine

or sucrose if you're comfortable doing her debuff rotations

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2--ol05Zctk

[timid zenith]

How about I try to build sucrose a little for the sucrose national like sevy

[teal garden]

sucrose can be underbuilt in national

her em sharing isn't dependent on her levels, as long as you have 4vv and ttds/sac you'll be fine

[timid zenith]

That can be done but I just won't be able to 3em

[teal garden]

you don't have triple em vv yet?

steal kazuha's

[timid zenith]

Kazuha dosent has one either

Just my artifact luck

This one really hurts a lot I know

[teal garden]

keep strongboxing, give the em-er ones to kazuha, and em only ones to sucrose

you tend to get some bad em pieces so it's good she can use them

[timid zenith]

I was thinking of going for the domain+strongboxing given how low the chances of getting an em piece are

[teal garden]

I would still say strongbox given how unlikely any maiden piece is useful

do you still have domains to farm?

if kazuha has 500em and enough er/crit rate you don't have to stress his em that much. sucrose appreciates full em but also this is for em sharing, she will already always give 50 and be able to hold ttds

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-xkSW9BO8

[timid zenith]

After seeing this vedio I can clearly say that what I am lacking is just skill and not investment

Although building a freeze team would have made it pretty easy

[timid zenith]

Do you think this sucrose might be good for sucrose national first half??

Or is it a bit too weak

[timid zenith]

@teal garden you there?

[teal garden]

this is useable in a pinch

[timid zenith]

One question if I wanna build a burgeon thoma should I just go for 4pc guilded or I can go for rainbow set with 2pc guilded and rest random em pieces with good er substats??

Also whom would be a good burgeon dps??

Thoma or dehya

[timid zenith]

Or someone else would be better??

[teal garden]

thoma better

as long as you have on field normal attackers, thoma tends to be the sweet spot burgeon dps

4pc gilded dream (or fopl) if you have a 4pc set with enough ER

otherwise 2em 2em

last choice rainbow set

but everything depends on whether it gives you enough ER

kitain thoma can get by with 165~170ER in most teams

[timid zenith]

Well I was kinda trying to get a 3em vv first cause I think I need a working sucrose and kazuha

[timid zenith]

I can't do it but then the er is almost nothing

So I think that for now the best would be 2pc guilded and the rest rainbow

That way I will at least get 50 more em

[timid zenith]

Which one could be a good normal attacker for this team??

[teal garden]

it doesn't matter that much as long as you normal attack

so you can put baizhu on field, ayato, kokomi, even childe

[timid zenith]

But childe na has a very big cd??

Won't it create a problem

[teal garden]

you still have to manage his cd: his on field time wont' be that long but tends to be long enough

if you have other choices I would recommend just going with easier choices

but childe burgeon also works

[timid zenith]

I do have a nahida so I can just spam her na

Or I can use heizou

[teal garden]

all are good options

with nahida I feel like the healer options somewhat don't want her to be the onfielder

heizou can be on fielder, but healer situation is similar, baizhu dendro application being so single target makes this team not that great in aoe, which is burgeon's advantage over hyperbloom

heizou also doesn't swirl hydro in a burgeon team, only burning, but you can build him for raw dps instead

[timid zenith]

But I don't have kokomi

Would barbra+ furina work?

[teal garden]

Works good

[timid zenith]

Would this sucrose work for the sucrose national for chamber 2

Also since bs farming would take a while for the ganyu ayaka freeze team do you think that by that time I might be able to make work with wrio charlette furina and kazuha freeze team since wrio needs mh instead of bs??

Also another question what all types of basic teams should I have for the various rotations of abyss

[timid zenith]

I can also give her a lvl 90 mappa mare or sac as well (currently nahida is using sac but I can make her hold mappa)

[timid zenith]

Also I was reading the ganyu kqm guide and wanted to ask that does Morgana performs better than replacing venti with kazuha

How are Thomas artifacts??
I suppose I have to give him a r5 kitan right??

Also do I need to level up his q and e or not??

[teal garden]

this sucrose is fine. give her ttds for xiangling buff.

[teal garden]

this depends on enemies. Some enemies resist venti grouping but do not resist kazuha grouping.

[teal garden]

yes kitain

build is fine

[timid zenith]

So what should be my rotations??

Also would it be able to do chamber 2??

[teal garden]

chamber 2 is less about rotations

and more about positioning

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=avast&q=childe+pro+to+noob&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DvlkYG11H3G8

[timid zenith]

But isn't sucrose national a good team for chamber 2 first half

[teal garden]

depends on how well you play national/international

whether you play well enough to still be able to position

so if you have trouble just switch to a comfortable team

[timid zenith]

Like??

[teal garden]

hyperbloom freeze

whatever that's easy and built enough that allows you to position yourself against the 3 waves

childe can do chamber 2-1 but not if you are paying so much attention to rotation and cd management that you are just charging in and ungoruping

remember: your issue across several teams from last time was ungrouoping

that was what stopped you from clearing in time

[timid zenith]

Would this vedio team me grouping??

[teal garden]

no

this is rotation only

[timid zenith]

Then do you have a very good grouping??

[timid zenith]

I just don't have any character fit for fridge

[teal garden]

not fridge

hyperbloom, or freeze sorry

typing with my thumbs

[timid zenith]

Ganyu and ayaka arent build yet

Wriothsel is kinda built

But I need to level him up

[teal garden]

for ganyu or ayaka I would still say try it out with emblem or whatever 2+2 or blizzard you have, the set doesn't matter that much, but having kazuha and good positioning does

wriothesly not particularly good or bad, no rush to raise just for this abyss

[timid zenith]

I did try the ganyu ayaka team but I just don't know how to use it at all

I can give them good stats but without proper understanding of the rotations it just won't work

[teal garden]

are you using ganyu AND ayaka?

or just one of them?

if both, both their burst snapshot

[timid zenith]

Both

[teal garden]

so you'd use one of their skill or ayaka dash to apply cryo, EQ on kazuha, do your hydro character, then use their bursts, then kazuha E

[timid zenith]

I remember you said to use both during the weenut so I thought maybe they make a good team together

[teal garden]

yeah they're good together

[timid zenith]

Both had a rainbow set btw

[teal garden]

that's fine

[timid zenith]

But the problem is that my only viable hydro option is furina which needs a healer

Wish I had built my mona

Btw how does Mona buff works??

[teal garden]

then drop ayaka for a cryo healer

you don't need her

mona can work here (I used her) but if you have furina just use a cryo healer

[timid zenith]

Would I be better if I just level up Mona instead??

[teal garden]

no

[timid zenith]

Like??

Sorry I am unable to think of one

[teal garden]

diona, charlotte, even mika

if your'e afraid husk will hit diona shield you can use charlotte

but this being a freeze team if your diona's built just use her

don't need to spend too much resources on a cryo healer

[timid zenith]

How to build her??

I can give her 4pc maiden

[teal garden]

that's fine, if you have noblesse give her noblesse

give her sac bow with high er

full hp

[timid zenith]

How much er??

Also I should use ganyu or ayaka as my freeze dps??

Plus I was just thinking that since I am using furina then can I use mh on my dps??

[teal garden]

ideally 210 but if your'e short energy on diona no big deal, she applies cryo with skill

so if all you can do is 180, fine

[timid zenith]

Ok

Give me a sec let me show my characters

[timid zenith]

Well turns out I don't have a built diona

So I was thinking of using sucrose national once

[teal garden]

if you don't have a built diona then I would prioritize charlotte instead

[timid zenith]

Do you think this will work

[teal garden]

sucrose national can work but it is fairly single target, like raiden national

[teal garden]

so you want to be extra careful with psotitioning

builds look fine

[timid zenith]

Dissent sucrose does aoe??

[teal garden]

splatter damage

the high damage you see for national is single target in this team

[timid zenith]

Also how to do positioning then

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY-xkSW9BO8&t=548s

[timid zenith]

Also what are gonna be the rotations of this team??

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2--ol05Zctk

[timid zenith]

Also like how good is sucrose national for first half like if you are to rate it out of 10??

[teal garden]

for most people kidn of 6~7 maybe

because it is a single target team with splatter damage and because higher skill rotations are harder to pull off

if you have to pay attention to psotitioning I would tend to recommend easier teams like freeze and hyperbloom for that chamber

[timid zenith]

I did try hyperbloom but it just takes way too much time

Almost 20 sec extra

Much because the only source or DMG for the dendeo specters is furina and her animals just never Target the dendro specters

I need a dps for 4th slot

[teal garden]

I remember I had a furina hyperbloom video

where rotation was basically random

positioning was also kind of random

for furina on the dendro specters you just have to make a decision about whether you want to use healing while cleaning up those enemies

and typically you can use healing

because whopper flowers give you enough time to both kill them and battery

[timid zenith]

But why would you need to battery in hyperbloom when it's entirely skill based team

[teal garden]

furina burst

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

But still the dendro specters just take too long to die

Almost like all the other enemies are dead and only they are the ones remaining

[teal garden]

that's normal in a hyperbloom team

[timid zenith]

So you still have that vedio

[teal garden]

here

[timid zenith]

Well I am able to do the first half like you did but my rational isn't strong enough to force the array into standby mode in one rotation

[teal garden]

I think if you get the first half tighter

the second half can be done with fischl national

[timid zenith]

Why fischl and not raiden??

[teal garden]

lower dps

[timid zenith]

Also just a thought but what if I use hyperbloom both rounds?

[timid zenith]

Raiden has lower dps than fischl

Seriously??

[teal garden]

fischl has lower dps than raiden

meaning

I don't think raiden is necessary that floor

especially considering my chamber 1 run is suboptimal

[timid zenith]

But your raiden DMG was so good

Like it was doing 220k

[teal garden]

that is a c2 raiden

[timid zenith]

Ah that explains the big DMG then

[teal garden]

one moment I can do a freeze team

[timid zenith]

If you are doing that could you do Charlotte furina ganyu and kazuha

[teal garden]

I don't have access to any acc twith a bult charlotte

but since diona is a less good charlotte I made a diona one

also suboptimal builds

one moment

suboptimal meaning nobody has enough ER, and Ganyu is on 4pc wanderer troupe

[timid zenith]

4pc wanderer but why??

Like isn't wanderer for melt

[teal garden]

because this acct doesn't have freeze build

and also because you really don't need "best" built team for freeze to work first half

kind of like hyperbloom

[timid zenith]

Hmm I think that would be good since my rainbow set won't be anywhere near optimal either

Also how do I build charlette

[teal garden]

high attack, high ER, fav or oathsworn eye

[timid zenith]

How much er??

[timid zenith]

I have both

Which one is better fav or oathsworn

[teal garden]

as high as you can get, especially since you will be using press skill instead of hold most of the time

depends on ganyu kazuha and furina ER

I would use fav if this is emergency building

because you likely won't have enough ER on furina

[timid zenith]

Is this much enough

[teal garden]

this is not enough in ideal situations but you can make this work

ideal situation is something like this, short rotation, bursts off cooldown

if kazuha uses hold skill then you want to +15 on everyone

but if you're short a little bit, no big deal

the team I used has 118 ER on ganyu, 180 furina, 222 kazuha, and underbuilt diona with 152 ER

you can be very suboptimal

[timid zenith]

Never knew freeze was this op

[teal garden]

usually not this op

it just works very well this chamber

freeze teams are mid to very good depending on the environment. The environment is really important

[timid zenith]

So I just go all atk with high er(does a set matter or I can go rainbow)+ fav

[teal garden]

in an emergency just use rainbow set

for finished charlotte you can use 4noblesse, 4tenacity, or 4sodp

[timid zenith]

Sodp??

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6hc9lL_8hE

can you see this

[teal garden]

song of days past, new healer set in fontaine, in navia's domain if you're farming it

also I wanted to show you before but it was hard to find in guide videos. But do you see how the rolling round is disrupted by enemy hit box? If you stand in the gap it doesn't damage you

some people use that gap in melt ganyu teams

[timid zenith]

Wait it's good on charlette

[teal garden]

if someone else is using noblesse or she's supporting neuvilette yes

otherwise noblesse tends to be better

[timid zenith]

So in a furina team with charlette sodp is good

[teal garden]

but if you're farming navia domain chances are high you'll get sodp

yes, competitive

[timid zenith]

Yeah I do have a lot

[timid zenith]

But like I was seeing you didn't used ganyu ca that much

Only her burst

[teal garden]

she doesn't use it in freeze teams

only uses it to break shields and clear up some enemies without wasting rotation

[timid zenith]

So I just need to burst spam

[teal garden]

yeah

this is why I recommend looking for spare emblems if you have it and in any case building higher er

[timid zenith]

Also how would the rotations go in a charlette team

[teal garden]

Furina EQ -> Charlotte EQ -> Kazuha EQ -> Ganyu EQ

it's just EQ EQ EQ until finish

and swapping to charlotte or kazuha on fav cooldown and kazuha on skill cooldown to group

[teal garden]

yeah ok tested (no video) freeze first side fischl national second side works just fine

[timid zenith]

How are these 2 builds??

[teal garden]

swap cdmg for ganyu and swap her weapon

kazuha useable for now

[timid zenith]

I can give him fav as well

[teal garden]

then give him fav

[timid zenith]

Which weapon to use then

Stringless?

[teal garden]

what bows do you have actually

[timid zenith]

Let me take a pic

Wait a sec

[timid zenith]

If I do that wouldn't I lose a bit too much cr??

[teal garden]

actually stay with hamayumi

[teal garden]

the substat is still good

one moment

[timid zenith]

This is all I have

[teal garden]

yeah hamayumi + cdmg circlet

[timid zenith]

What about the cr??

And also the er

[teal garden]

you have cryo resonance

being low on ER doesn't hurt that bad

[timid zenith]

Wait how about if I craft song of stillness??

[teal garden]

not worth crafting just for this

the difference won't matter

[timid zenith]

How about now??

Also can you pls give me some idea as to about how much er I would need on charlette on fav with 4pc sodp

[teal garden]

looks good

go try

[timid zenith]

Also another request can you please pin this

[timid zenith]

Charlette is left a bit

Can she work a bit underbuilt

[teal garden]

if you can get her ER to 250 great (fav) otherwise try for 220ish, but if you slow down rotation a little 190ish is already fine

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

Thanks a lot for the idea of the freeze team

That team was simply amazing for chamber 2

I just kinda feel bad that I didn't got the last star last time around

But thanks I was finally able to get the final star

Also I know it's kinda not allowed but based on the current speculations can you please suggest what teams would be good for 4.6 abyss

[timid zenith]

Also another question which one would be a better dps neuvilett or arle??

[teal garden]

they are expected to have some similarities: being able to swap out of them to teammates and swapping back without losing "infusion"
other than that they are just pyro and hydro onfielder, doing different things

I would look at whether you have arle teammates when she is released before deciding tho

[teal garden]

for 4.6 if rumors hold true you may want to switch teams for chambers 1 and 2 vs 3.
1 and 2 is bossing first side aoe second. Freeze team and hyperbloom teams remain good second side

chamber 3 you want to take hydro dendro pyro for second side if you want fast shield breaking, and good aoe first side

if you have a good burgeon team you can take it all second side

[timid zenith]

How do I set me teapot to open even when I am offline??

[teal garden]

go to teapot, click map hotkey

then inside the teapot map there's an option to open teapot for when you are offline

are you percy, zeo

[timid zenith]

Yeah

You are gellsie?

[timid zenith]

Thanks btw

[teal garden]

yeah

one moment I'm clearing resin, I'll head to teapot when I'm out of the domain

[timid zenith]

My friend helped me there

No need

Thanks though

[timid zenith]

Do you happen to have any vedio of that Baptist thingy

I don't even knew such an enemy existed

Where do you even find him

[timid zenith]

Also do if I use a hyperbloom team first half and a burgeon team second half I am good then??

[teal garden]

last sumeru area

he was in abyss once before in a different configuration.

so you just want to know what elements he will have this abyss

[timid zenith]

He has different elements then

[timid zenith]

Nah I just wanted a general idea on what kind of enemy he is

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nfGR7ozdWM

in overworld and in abyss he has different patterns

watch the video ^

so you see you have to break different element shields at fixed time intervals

[timid zenith]

Also did I deduce it right??

[teal garden]

yeah this is fine

[timid zenith]

Dendro is good for removing hydro??

[teal garden]

yup!

[timid zenith]

So a burgeon team simply rocks the second half then

[teal garden]

yeah, if you don't have thoma built you can use nahida national

still works good

[timid zenith]

I have got the artifacts and other stuff just leveling him up is all that's left I can do that too the coming of the abyss

Since now I can do the current abyss

[timid zenith]

How is thoma nahida xingqui and barbra??

[teal garden]

it works

you may want to adjust based on what first 2 chambers feel like tho

[timid zenith]

Cause I think I will need kuki DMC yaoyao and furina first half

[timid zenith]

??

[teal garden]

you may want more dps in first 2 chambers, because presumably barbara isn't doing a whole lot of damage

so something like thoma yaoyao xingqiu fischl/different dps

you have 3 waves of enemies to deal with in prev chambers, which want high dps and also want to be killed at the same time

but you should have enough teams to be able to do that abyss even if barbara doesn't work out

by switching up teams for some chambers

[timid zenith]

First half can be delt with quickly is I use rational first half

I guess none of them in chamber 3 can be staggered

[teal garden]

yup raiden national sounds good

[timid zenith]

So I just finally got neuvilett although at c0

Is he useful at c0 or is c1 the bare minimum

Also how to build neuvilett

[teal garden]

c0 is fine

4pc mh hp/hydro/cdmg, especially if your'e using non sig and/or want to be flexible about team

ER: try to get about 130 for comfort but you typically don't need to get more as longas you're mindful of rotation

[timid zenith]

I am gonna use r5 pamber

[teal garden]

yes hydro gob

[timid zenith]

And teams?

I was kinda thinking of hyperbloom or burgeon

[teal garden]

flexible, just depends on what enemies want

[timid zenith]

Yeah many people just solo the abyss with him

[teal garden]

there isn't good burgeon triggers for neuv

[timid zenith]

Dehya?

[teal garden]

but if enemies stagger you you ccan play dehya burgeon, it's just a damage loss (dehya isn't a good burgeon trigger)

[timid zenith]

??

[teal garden]

it just depends on how bad of a dps check the floor is

but still works most of the time

[timid zenith]

So till now only thoma and xiangling can act as good burgeon dps

[teal garden]

if you're using nahida xiangling you won't burgeon that much, you'll be burn-vaping

[timid zenith]

Also what is better for thoma r5 kitan or dbane

[timid zenith]

That's true

[teal garden]

for most teams kitain

energy tends to be bad enough that you can't afford dbane

[timid zenith]

Also I finally got 3em vv

Although the substats are trash I think that it should work right

[teal garden]

sucrose doesn't need burst in the vast majority of her teams

[timid zenith]

So it's good to go then right

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

So regarding this neuvilett build I am just unable to understand if the artifacts are good or not

Like they all have hp% and er which neuv would appreciate but then I am feeling that is making his cd suffer

[teal garden]

overall quality not great, you likely can expect improvements with farming (you haven't really hit artifact improvement wall)

I would try to get more crits and you can do without er rolls if you're on pamber

you don't have enough crits to for hp% rolls to be as worth it over crit

[timid zenith]

Ok so what ratio should I aim for

[timid zenith]

Didn't you said I needed 130 er though for comfort

[teal garden]

assuming non-er weapon sorry

with pamber you're fine most of the time with 0 unless you're doing like burn vape

[timid zenith]

Is there any other weapon except pamber that good for him

[teal garden]

sac jade, then sig

baizhu wepaon also good

but not worth getting

cv beint 122 is too low

get to at least 160 before settling for hp rolls as alternatives to crit

but because you don't actually have to worry about overcapping crit rate with pamber

just go as high cv as you can

[timid zenith]

Is neuv able to utilise the sac jade passive considering the long field uptime

[teal garden]

yes sac passive just means you ca twice swap off refresh

especially with kazuha in team you always have his skill waiting for you

[timid zenith]

How about this one

[teal garden]

better overall

[timid zenith]

I guess I would just have to change the sands and circlet now

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

Is flower ok

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

Based on these characters whom do you think will be better for my account
Baizhu or arle

[teal garden]

If you plan to finish raising tighnari, baizhu furina raiden is a good team and you can round out your hyperbloom burgeonoptions. Thats about it

Arle is a good pyro onfirlder but you have so many unraised onfielders. You should order them based on what you like

Which one you pull, doesnt matter that much. You have a lot of characters and a lot of teams have gaps

Make a list of what is important to you and consider finish raising some characters. If it is just for clearing abyss you're fine saving primos now while you focus on finishing neuv, freeze teams etc

[timid zenith]

How should I make a priority list

Cause the last time I made one I was just leaving up only dps with almost no support investment

[timid zenith]

Can you please tell me about those gaps

[teal garden]

you have spent sumeru and fontaine pulling onfielders that all belong to different team systems or want the same teammates as characters you already have, so for the past few abyss it feels like you can't make 2 good teams to 36star. As f2p you can expect to guarantee a 5* every other patch, and with the number of patches in a nation you can guarantee 1 new team every nation, with a little bit of extra room. So, do not pull any onfielder unless they're non-negotiable to you. If someone says they're strong, totally upgrades an account, well, with the team systems available to you it's still very possible for the primo spending to mean nothing to your own account. This is why I asked what 5stars onfielders are non-negotiable to you because it will decide what pull plans you have for 6months to a year. There's no need to ask every update if you should pull, the answer is no, unless you're asking how your pull plans should change because the current 5star is non-negotiable to you. An easy guideline that you update once a year is pull the archon and 1 team around the archon, and pull 1~2 characters more if they complete teams you already like. You can update this plan when pyro archon swings around.

When you pull every dps that comes along it will feel like you have no dps and your account is new because you neither have the teammates for them nor the resources to build them. It ends up just being primos you invested to add a character picture to your character book. Since it seems like you want abyss to feel easier and you don't actually have strong personal attachment to a lot of characters you ask about, I would say pull some characters that make teams you already have more flexible. Kokomi and/or Baizhu for your furina teams and freeze teams, it's a bonus that they also work well in dendro teams. Skip every onfield dps until pyro archon unless it's a fave and not because someone says they're strong

spend the resin on building characters for team systems instead, consider 5stars that you already can't take to abyss be sunk cost, don't spend primos trying to fix them, just let them be overworld teams or floor 11 units

[teal garden]

these advice may be a little bit...harsh

but I think it's time to stop thinking about pulling dps characters

and start focusing on supports for ones you either already have or want to play

if you pull 1 team per nation you can actually afford to pull early cons and/or weapons for key characters

[timid zenith]

Nah it's not harsh it's just the reality

So I should pull for baizhu this patch then

[teal garden]

if you want to be strategic I'd just save until natlan rolls around

and write off sunk cost

[timid zenith]

What

[teal garden]

stop thinking your best cryo team is ayaka-ganyu, just write one of them off:
ayaka/ganyu furina kazuha charlotte

this way you don't have to pull baizhu or kokomi

kokomi overlaps too much with neuvilette AND your ayaka and neuvilette teams tend to want kazuha, so you can't run them at the same time anyway

[timid zenith]

So the main problem is that I have way too many dps built with almost no supports to support them

[teal garden]

so going forward, you can have
freeze teams around furina
a few neuvilette teams
hyperbloom teams
wanderer faruzan furina bennett for high dps and thoma bennett for comfort
navia teams that uses bennett
national teams
write off wrio and xiao for now, and write off one character between albedo and chiori, write off cyno

[timid zenith]

Due to which my effective teams are just limited to 2-3 and I struggle with the abyss

[teal garden]

yes, the issue is pulling dps all the time

and pulling different team systems all the time, without budgeting for resin AND primos

[timid zenith]

Hmm

So if suppose I stop pulling now what should be my priority list

[teal garden]

when you pull a new character you want to immediately think of cost: does this character need 4 or 8 weeks of artifact farming, does it need sig to be good, does it need c1 to be good, do I already have teammates for them, does getting them bench a lot of other characters

for someone like ayaka I would simply not pull her unless I already have kokomi AND kazuha

[teal garden]

do you want to main ganyu or ayaka?

[timid zenith]

Don't know

Anyone that's good works

[teal garden]

I would toss a coin and make one of them an emblem character for neuvilette and focus on the other one for "proper dps build"

this depends:

1. are you good at charged shot ganyu? if you're not, then melt ganyu doesn't exist for you
2. do you plan to pull kokomi? if you don't, then build freeze teams around furina + cryo healer or make ganyu or ayaka into a mostly benched neuvilette teammate. Neuvilette doesn't prefer cryo teammates but can use them if enemies are susceptible

[timid zenith]

No like in general from all my characters that I have

[timid zenith]

Isn't chiori an off field support though

[teal garden]

finish freeze, finish neuv, decide if you want to finish anyone else, raise a cryo healer for furina, decide if you want baizhu for tighnari or write that off

[teal garden]

but why get chiori when you have albedo, you didn't say you want to run 2 geo teams at the same time

and even then, noelle doesn't want chiori that badly

[timid zenith]

For tighnari wouldn't tighnari nahida fischl and a shielder work

[timid zenith]

I pulled for her thinking I can run both albedo and chiori together

[teal garden]

tighnari's issue isn't single target dps, that's already good. ALL of tighnari's team considerations are about how to make him handle mixed abyss sides where some chambers are aoe and some are ST

[teal garden]

they don't do enough damage for that at c0

or at least, not if your primary concern is being uncomfortable in abyss

[timid zenith]

The team I was planning was noell chiori gorou and albedo

[teal garden]

if you want to do chiori albedo badly enough at c0 you can do it, but it means learning abyss enemy patterns and positioning better

[teal garden]

that can work actually

but do you have the resin for it

when so many of your teams are behind

but if you don't pull

you may be able to do it by the time natlan comes around

so if the noelle team is a priority do:

finish noelle team, finish freeze team, finish neuv, raise charlotte

[timid zenith]

Not a priority

My priority is neuv

No questions there in my mind

[teal garden]

then do that

hyper neuv, taser neuv, you CAN play burgeon/vape neuv but it's not going to be central to his teams

[timid zenith]

I was thinking that since chiori requires gt I can build fischl chiori albedo while farming for neuv and give albedos artifacts to neoll

[teal garden]

that can work in monogeo noelle team

[timid zenith]

Any super op support that I have that I should level up asap?

[teal garden]

finish charlotte if she's not finished, not op but will give you a freeze team without kokomi. finish raising faruzan if you want to focus on your anemo dps, but don't have to do this asap since you don't need anemo teams that badly

don't add things to your plan

just do neuvilette, freeze teams

and passively do a noelle team if you like chiori that much

we're already talking about several months of resin

[timid zenith]

||But doesn't the new speculated abyss require anemo unit||

[teal garden]

are you talking about ||4.6 abyss||? if so anemo can do it but it doesn't require anemo

[timid zenith]

No 4.7

The speculated new abyss in 4.7

[teal garden]

oh the new type you mean

haven't seen too much about that so I would wait

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

Extremely sorry for asking such a rediculus question but is arle gonna powercreep neuv or not

[teal garden]

don't worry. on paper dps higher but doesn't have the same reach in aoe. she's somewhat haitham range in terms of aoe

also can't reach on paper dps once you start having to manage her hp through using burst and avoiding damage when you're low HP

[timid zenith]

So it's just a on paper thingy then

[teal garden]

She should still feel pretry good in prwctice

Easy to use if you can work around her squishiness and vulnerability to stagger

[timid zenith]

Hi gella how can I build a rosaria for a reverse melt team

Also can you again teach me how to use the erc again

I kinda forgot

[teal garden]

4pc emblem or 2+2, em/pyro/crit, atk/pyro/crit, you can favor crit rate slightly but still mostly want even ratio since rosaria herself is the maindps here

write out rotation for the team and assumptions about number of skill uses, whether you funnel

the simplest set up is this

21sec, 3 uses from rosaria kaeya bennett, without calculating funnels and without kaeya's c6 (energy refund)

[timid zenith]

Rosaria ain't Pyro so why Pyro DMG bonus?

3?

You just kinda lost me in the rotations like how 3 rotations

[teal garden]

oops sorry I meanr cryo dmg bonus

3 skill uses for rosaria and kaeya per 21sec rotation

[timid zenith]

Also I still don't understand how it came out to be 117 like I was seeing kqm site and it said I would need 240+ er

Also isn't sucrose a good addition to this team since revmelt teams like the em she can offer

[teal garden]

kqm makes different assumptions than this

kqm likely assumes you're funneling from bennett into xiangling

this setup doesn't

if you are referring to kqm er requirements for rosaria

then kqm lists a sliding scale of er cut offs for rosaria based on how many skill uses she and kaeya does per rotation

people have different preferences

and this is where knowing your preferences and knowing how to use erc comes in

[timid zenith]

I did try to use it once but it was a disaster

[teal garden]

you can make more conservative assumptions here, like say bennett rosaria kaeya each use 2 skills, and you're not able to funnel into xiangling

[timid zenith]

I still understood nothing about how the rotation time came out and what everything that's written there means

[teal garden]

well, if your'e not sure how you are supposed to plan rotations for erc you should take all of your artifacts off except er (or just wear full er artifacts), and record a video of yourself doing "SOME" rotation as best you can. do full 2 rotations minimum without stopping

then you will know how many seconds it takes and how many skills you used

[timid zenith]

Full er artifacts?

[teal garden]

yes

when you're taking rotation videos nothing matters except ER, in fact you want to lower you damage so you can stand in one spot doing rotations without killing enemies

[timid zenith]

Any good punching bag for that??

[teal garden]

primo geovishap, scara boss phase 1

there's a reason in rosaria melt team for not funneling into xiangling

because you can double melt your batterying if you do bennett E rosaria E Kaeya E in quick succession

[timid zenith]

But then I won't be able to need xiangling er requirements

[teal garden]

that's fine, er sands + er weapon on her

she's subdps, using er sands won't hurt the team

[timid zenith]

She is on er sands

[teal garden]

ah ok, if the er is that bad you sacrifice some batterying phase damage

and funnel into her

but this is what makes er a sliding scale in this team

you work with what you got (

[timid zenith]

So should I just scrap the idea of a revmelt rosaria for now given all the technicalities

[timid zenith]

Btw what's her weapon

[teal garden]

well your xiangling's ER isn't so bad, I think you can make it work

who has catch right now?

[timid zenith]

Raiden

[teal garden]

I think your rev melt team will do fine as long as you funnel into xiangling

so give up on double melting the skills

[timid zenith]

Also how's my thoma build for the burgeon team

[teal garden]

thoma looks good

[timid zenith]

Would it works for the 4.6 abyss second part?

[teal garden]

xiangling is short like maybe 5ER I think you can make it work

[timid zenith]

Just 5 er?

[teal garden]

assuming bennett's first skill funnels into xiangling by going bennett QE -> Xiangling QE

yes

you're short like 5er

that's fine honestly

[timid zenith]

What if I make her hold fav since she won't melt in this team anyways

[teal garden]

if it feels bad in abyss, swap to fav

but db still buffs her damage because pyro's on enemies

[timid zenith]

But wouldn't it be better on rosaria?

[teal garden]

what's rosaria holding now?

[timid zenith]

Nothing

[teal garden]

then fav on xiangling db on rosa

good to go

one moment let me pull up abyss line up

second half prefers having a hydro over melt but if you're fast you can make it work

WAIT

wrong abyss

yeah second side works, first side works too

[timid zenith]

And if second side I use burgeon with the thoma build?

Would the em be enough

[teal garden]

yup works

[timid zenith]

So yeah after the rev mel rosaria I will have another basic team ready

After this only freeze would be left right

Or wait what all basic types of teams are there in this game

[teal garden]

yeah I think you want to have at least 1 freeze team given how many cryo units you have (and you've already invested into them)

[timid zenith]

The bs domain kinda hates me

I never get peices with crit and er

[teal garden]

there are some different dimensions to team strenghths, of which freeze teams currently do well in:
aoe of small to mid crowds of small to mid enemies, low aerial, crowd control (preventing movement), quickswap allowing you to be flexible around dps windows (not all enemies and ayaka is the worst at this)

but you've seen how well freeze works this abyss

[timid zenith]

Yeah

Also how to you built venti

[teal garden]

full em-er, doesn't need crit rate if you're not using fav

all skills at 0 is fine, or 1/6/6 if you can spare the books

[timid zenith]

I meant cd

[teal garden]

cooldown?

[timid zenith]

Wait you replying for whom

[teal garden]

venti

[timid zenith]

I thought you meant this for the cryo dps

[teal garden]

oh no, em-er is for venti

[timid zenith]

Again triple em vv

[teal garden]

I think you can shelf venti until you can afford to strongbox a second set of em-er vv

wherever you can use venti in abyss you can make dow with kazuha pretty well

[timid zenith]

Hmm

Also what are the basic teams in genshin that you must have

[teal garden]

for doing abyss on the cheap, these days I'd recommend a hyperbloom team, beidou-fischl agg or keqing-fischl agg, yelan+xingqiu in an acct, nahida in an acct, pull furina and build some healers, have some good xiangling-bennett core

that's it

but abyss meta is going to change soon

with the new type of abyss dropping

and also with natlan coming

there is some indication that we may get energy-suck environment at some point so you want some teams that are not burst-dependent or can handle whatever mechanic that gets rid of energy suck quickly

when you've done abyss for a while you will be able to identify gaps in your teams

this relate to personal preferences

if you only have long rotation teams with a selfish onfielder, you will often run into dps window issues or wave content issues (cyno for example)

I'm afk in a bit I'll think about how to explain this and type somethign when I get back

[teal garden]

the basic teams I'd recommend you have remains unchanged:
hyperbloom team(s) for the huge variety of them you can do including burgeon-hyperperbloom teams with hutao/yanfei etc
a decent aggravate team which overlaps with freeze teams in their aoe capabilities. But because you already have good freeze units you might as well have a freeze team too which specifically targets rifthounds and husks well
some good single target bossing teams which can be hyperbloom/freeze/national/agg/monohydro etc
some teams that can take aerial enemies, a lot of teams can do this by swapping in an archer or furina etc. Not really an archetype of team just check your account for when you have aerial enemies

naming specific teams to have doesn't really work to answer your question even though you may want a list of things to do/get. Having a well rounded team strategy is mostly about personally identifying where you're uncomfortable or short of options and then building or getting units for it

there are also mechanics that softban in abyss:
energy suck, hp drain, staggering or pushing your characters a really far distance, cd lengthening, extremely mobile enemies etc

[timid zenith]

Now how do I personally identify the problems since I am the weakest in that respect

But the 4.5 abyss told me that my team is nowhere good enough for the abyss

[timid zenith]

Also by teams I just wanted to know trypes like freeze aggravate etc

[timid zenith]

This made me realise I don't have anything for energy suck

What can be a good team for that

My roster

The only team that I currently have is hyperbloom

It's a purely skill based team

Maybe then building tighnari aggravate might be a good idea then

[teal garden]

Wr already have energy drain in some domains, in bathysmal vishaps, and in electro lwcters. Currently you solve this by overbuilding energy or using teams that dont need much energy or dodging the attacks that drain energy. Also onfielders that are catalysta are good for it

Tighnari: if you have a yae team it is good for dps window bossing, aerials, and energy drain/low energy env

If you dont have yae his versatility is limited. You also dont have baizhu. In any case dont build tighnari just for the hell of it, the goal isnt to add yet more stuff to your plan when so many characters are underbuilt

[teal garden]

outside of yae here are your tighnari (spread) options:

E bot raiden (low damage but good aoe coverage)
fischl (spread and CA doesn't trigger some oz hits so lower dmage but still fine in single target. If you are in team wide energy drain fischl still wants to alternate e and q over the rotations)
fischl-beidou (no healer unless you take yaoyao, can still work but uncomfortable)
dori (usually this means you're sacrificing dmg somewhere for the sake of er + healing)
kuki (play tighnari in melee range, fine if like like it, but if you have to take a shielder it also means sacrificing damage somewhere)

hyperbloom tighnari:
tighnari baizhu raiden furina (ideal)
other set ups (you're sacrificing something somewhere, fine if you like it/can pull it off)

but since you already have hyperbloom options and you already had some issues with them, using copium tighnari hyperbloom teams isn't going to make them any better

[timid zenith]

This is all so much confusing

I do understand that I have to personally find out the weakness in my teams but can you please tell me how do I do so

Cause currently I am so confused as to where the team is weak

[teal garden]

When you do abyss, note down where you have trouble

for the past couple of abyss

mostly it's been about player skill, less so about teams, going by my memory of the past few abysses for you

so I am a little unsure how to give advice here

you want to be the one to note down where and how you're having trouble

I might focus more on quickswap teams now that can do a variety of things over long rotation teams selfish dps teams, of which you have a lot

so finish neuv

then try to figure out how many pairs of teams you can get without overlap

[teal garden]

I perceive some meta anxiety from you

so the best advice, the core idea

is don't pull unless a character is your fave

characters that really benefit an account whether you like them or not come by very rarely, and they're very rarely an onfield selfish dps

[timid zenith]

How is this rosaria build

Also she is holding the dragonspine spear only because dban is with xiangling

[timid zenith]

Hmm yeah thanks for the advise I kinda forgot for a sec that is just a game that's meant to be enjoyed

[teal garden]

yeah zeo. even abyss rewards is, very few pulls per month

and I think if you rely on pulls less and you may enjoy 36starring more because you know you got it through incremental skill improvements

[teal garden]

rosaria looks pretty good

[timid zenith]

How to build kaeya?

[teal garden]

same as rosaria, em or atk sands, cryo/crit

iron sting or lionsroar

[timid zenith]

Lionsroar?

[teal garden]

yeah, pyro on enemy

if you have lionsroar use it over iron sting

[timid zenith]

Er should be?

[teal garden]

150 if you only use 2 skills (more reasonable)
120 if you use 3 skills (gotta be fast)

[timid zenith]

Also does this mean I don't need to get 4pc emblem for her?

[teal garden]

emblem would be better if you're using higher er builds for her

otherwise 2+2 is competitive

again this depends on what pieces you already have available

if rev melt isn't your fave team, and your'e just building it to have the option for abyss, just use your best 2+2 so you can work on other things

[timid zenith]

Never played so don't know

[teal garden]

I would start out with higher ER then and go down slowly

including rosaria

[timid zenith]

I was trying this since currently I was farming artifacts for neuv

I am just tired of thinking about meta and how to complete the abyss to such an extent that it's kinda ruining my gameplay experience so I think that I will just wait and see how the abyss will change and whether I can do it at that time or bot

Afterall I will have an entire month to prepare a new team from 4.7 onwards if I struggle at any point of the abyss

[teal garden]

yeah sounds good

and there's rumors we'll get a new type of abyss anyway

so who knows what's going to happen to "good strategies"

[timid zenith]

I wanted to ask why is baizhu so much important for a aggravate team

Like if you have nahida can't she compensate for it via nahida and yaoyao

[teal garden]

in an aggravate team you usually want to use as few dendro characters as you can get away with because swirling electro is a bigger buff than double dendro

can you make it work with electro electro nahida yaoyao? yeah, but when your primary complaint is that you can clear abyss but everything feels hard

you may want to go for more optimum teams, if that's the primary way you reach your goals

you can also reach it by learning enemy weaknesses better or more carefully attending to rotation and positioning

baizhu is just good role consolidation when your aggravate team has survival issues

if you can get away with healerless aggravate and you can swirl electro even with nahida there (technique), then yes double electro nahida kazuha/sucrose will be better than baizhu kazuha/sucrose

if you have survival issues, you can substitute yaoyao or kirara in the dendro slot, but try to keep sucrose/kazuha on the team

^ this is for current aggravate teams, not clorinde

[timid zenith]

||Chlorinde requires the bol right which would make healing inappropriate||

[teal garden]

allegedly yes, and she's supposed to be able to heal herself

[timid zenith]

Hey gella can I please know your honest thoughts about this
Do you think that I have even the slightest chance of being selected if I apply for helper role?

[teal garden]

I don't know, zeo! I think your strength is caring about how you do so you've gaining mechanic knowledge at a steady pace. You also chat and help out responsibly while in genshin-help! But I think especially the second time you applied you maybe cared too much about showing what you know and ended up answering the application in a way that felt like an info dump and less like how you might answer if you were in genshin help.

I think if you're curious you should apply! but I think once again, don't let anxiety get the best of you. Whatever happens isn't a judgment on your personal value. Just enjoy the process and also enjoy the game

[timid zenith]

Thing is that I am literally bored of answering those same stupid questions on the application form

That's why I was asking cause I really don't wanna write those lengthy answers for nothing

[teal garden]

then in honesty I think you should maybe just enjoy the game for a while. don't do it when you're annoyed

because I think that can come through in your answers and maybe hurt your chances

you still can hang out in the help chat, and here

so the green name doesn't really change things much for you day to day

[timid zenith]

True

Also one more question can I use modmail to report someone who is sending me DM and the only server we share is wfp?

[teal garden]

Yes use the main modmail for this: @primal flint

[timid zenith]

So currently my burgeon team is thoma nahida furina and barbra
The team is good and all but the major issue with this team is that it is very vulnerable and dies very easily

What can I do to improve on this?

[teal garden]

nothing since furina is in it

you can build barbara with maiden and extremely high er, so you can use burst reliably

but furina and burgeon will always feel squishy

level thoma's shield, use 2 r5 proto amber, 4pc maiden or 2hp 2hp on barbara depending on whether you need tankiness or healing, but there's only so much you can do

[timid zenith]

How can I use 2 proto Amber

[teal garden]

one on nahida, one on barbara

you get more healing

but that is very expensive for an account

I would suggest just swapping furina for yelan instead

[timid zenith]

Don't have yelan

[teal garden]

oh right, sorry

[timid zenith]

The only thing I can think of is using Mona instead of furina

But it will be a dps loss

[teal garden]

I would keep furina instead of mona

and live with the squishiness until you can swap different characters in

[timid zenith]

Like?

Yelan?

[teal garden]

yeah or baizhu if you pull him

or kokomi for that matter

do you have yaoyao?

in situations where enemies stay close and self group

you can just swap nahida out for very high er yaoyao

actually yaoyao er doesn't matter if you have barbara

she's just extra healing

[timid zenith]

I do have yaoyao but her dendro application isn't enough

[teal garden]

if enemies are spread out no

if they group well, it's enough

[timid zenith]

I was kinda thinking of getting baizhu cause I believe that after this rerun he will only be available on Chronicle banner

[timid zenith]

Can this place be taken by seigwine in 4.7?

Based on speculations her off field hydro application is good

[teal garden]

possibly

her off field hydro is bad

but you have enough with furina

[timid zenith]

Hi gella
How much er and crit ratio should I have on fischl on 4pc gt and having r5 stringless

Also do I like need arle if I have yoimiya since both are kinda like vape dps?

[teal garden]

double electro: 0, but solo electro without fav etc try to go for 130. You can keep some extra er pieces on hand if you want solo electro options

[teal garden]

arle tends to work better than yoimiya except when enemies spawn in circle AND are weak enough to be picked off 1 by 1

I wouldn't say you need arle tho

unless you start to prioritize and deprioritize some units I would still say raise the characters you have instead of just spending primos and not having resin to raise anyone

your neuv isn't even finished

[timid zenith]

True

[timid zenith]

Wait how did you know my neuvilett isn't finished?

[teal garden]

you showed your roster recently

[timid zenith]

Oh ok

[timid zenith]

What's a good team for neuv

Since mine is at c0 I think it will be better to rin him alongside zhongli

[teal garden]

neuv zhongli kazuha fischl
neuv furina zhongli kazuha

but hyperbloom neuv still works

with fontaine characters you don't currently stay in fixed teams for them

whatever team you can cobble together for abyss instead of benching them is a good team for them

they have more options over older units

[timid zenith]

Thing is I did try out neuv kuki nahida and zhongli first half of 4.6 abyss but the team kinda felt a lot clunky

Like it took a lot of time to clear first half even though neuv is very good in multiwave senarios

Along with the fact that there was increased damage from hyperbloom as well

[timid zenith]

So I tried to calculate er for
This team but I obviously did something wrong here

Help please

[timid zenith]

Which one is better for furina and which one for fischl

The one wirh the higher crit was her original build

[teal garden]

Gaming uses about 4 E

I would stay 190er on furina

Line 27 is wrong. Erase the numbers on the line for now

you're likely doing something like this:
Sac diona, no fav on rosaria (tho you could use fav instead)
Diona hE Q hE -> Rosaria EQ -> Bennett QE -> Gaming QEEEE -> Bennett E

[timid zenith]

So the left one is gonna be better then?

[teal garden]

yes since the difference between them is so small I'd want to keep the higher ER one

makes solo hydro more consistent

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

Also like for this team the rainslasher would probably not be a good weapon for gaming right

[teal garden]

still useable as a statstick (em) but if you want to dedicate a specific weapon use tidal or mailed flower

[timid zenith]

I was thinking of the melusine weapon

Since it completes his er requirements and give him a good atk%

[teal garden]

also good

[timid zenith]

That way I can use em sands on him to meet the required em needs

[timid zenith]

Do you happen to have data pertaining to the weapon comparison

Like of rainslasher the melusine one and tidal in a melt team

Also what is better for gaming melt or vape

[teal garden]

in general I would play him vape unless it's very specific enemies

the teams tend to be more adaptable

[timid zenith]

I was kinda just thinking about the shield for protection

Cause for vape I would need to use gaming Bennett furina and xingqui for continuous hydro application

Or would xingqui hydro application be enough to?

[teal garden]

you want furina over xingqiu

for aoe vape

and also better buffs

he's not really a good xingqiu user, but can use xingqiu if your account is small

but you are trying to make your account not small

so why build towards a very niche team if you don't have to?

I'd build him for vape instead of melt for his primary team

and use melt occassionally if you need a copium team, because the other team took all of his good teammates

in that case I'd strongly suggest using rainslasher instead

is your gaming c6?

[timid zenith]

C5 unfortunately

That's why I am going for 4pc MH

[teal garden]

hm, not so much a priority

but just put pieces on him as you get good ones

[timid zenith]

Ok

[teal garden]

I have seen some melt gaming calc but they're in chinese. for english you might want to try kqm tc or wfp tc to see if someone has their own calcs

[timid zenith]

So what would be a good vape team for him
I am sure I can put a decent team as long as it doesn't involve kokomi

[teal garden]

furina xianyun bennett, hands down the best

if you don't have xianyun, kazuha can still work but the handling will feel clunkier

[timid zenith]

I will then go for vape gaming only then so yeah no need for that

[teal garden]

it's because gaming's melt teams are very circle impact

so if enemies move or you need to move to enemies, suddenly it's a monopyro dps without wearing em sands and outside of bennett's circle

[timid zenith]

Hmm so I guess I will just for now try to get some good artifacts for him while working on my neuv and then try to build him once I get him c6 then?

[teal garden]

yeah

once you get his c6 you can review your supports and decide when to lvl him up, for now just put some pieces on him

and leave it alone

[timid zenith]

Oh and one last question fischl would appreciate 60:120 ratio right

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

Or I should go height

[teal garden]

as even as you can, as high as you can

60/120 on fischl is already pretty good without crit weapon

but if you can go higher, obviously better

[timid zenith]

The only problem that's coming is the er

I would need about 140 er in aggravate teams right

[teal garden]

if you're in keqing agg you need only 0 er on fischl

in fischl beidou and keqing fischl teams, she doesn't need er

but if you want her to be able to be solo electro you want about 130 and add fav or adjust rotation if that is short a tiny amt

140 is going to be very comfortable, I'd argue you probalby dont' need it this high

I've made it work with slightly over 120

[timid zenith]

Then I assume I again made some mistake with my ERC calcs

[teal garden]

show me what you did

is this keqing agg?

[timid zenith]

Cyno quickbloom

I want able to find my original calcs but when I did it again it miraculously is kinda doable

[teal garden]

cyno uses way more E in his rotation than this

[timid zenith]

But that would be the burst ones

It war almost like 3-4 times in his burst

[teal garden]

yes for cyno you have to write down all of his e uses

if it's EQE something E something etc

then 1 for no burst and however many in burst

fischl should sill require 0 er

you would maybe consider putting fav on baizhu here

[timid zenith]

But wouldn't beizhu er requirements be lower with r5 pamber

[teal garden]

roughly the same but his healing is better with pamber

[timid zenith]

I think I did some mistake here cause it shouldn't be 2 on all

[teal garden]

yeah it should be something like 3~4 per rotation dependign on set and how long you stay on field

refer to cyno combos:

https://keqingmains.com/q/cyno-quickguide/

[timid zenith]

Only fischl can be 2 one from e and another from her q

[timid zenith]

No I was taking about furina and baizhu

[teal garden]

ah yeah furina should be 1 (but 2 doesnt' change the math here since her particle gen is turret)

fischl should be 1, using burst every 2 rot

baizhu should be 1

^ skill uses

[timid zenith]

But then baizhu er needs are very high

I don't think you actually need that high er in this team

As for where I checked it was in the current event in the stage where baizhu was a trial character so yeah I can be wrong

[teal garden]

do not use trials for er calc, you have a lot more energy in those events and character trials than in floor 12

gave baizhu fav to lower furina's er

[timid zenith]

No not character trials the vibrio crystal research or something

[teal garden]

yeah dont' use that

you have a lot more energy

in those events

[timid zenith]

Didn't knew that

I just don't have baizhu currently but I was planning on getting him so that's why I was trying it out

So like since I don't need that much er on fischl would the right one be better on her then

Since it gives a good amount of atk%?

[teal garden]

use the shime gob

it's very good

[timid zenith]

Btw where is fischl used as a solo electro

[teal garden]

vapeload hutao, fischl national, some burgeon teams, low investment physical teams, etc

[timid zenith]

This is what her current build was looking like

[teal garden]

use the shimenawa goblet

[timid zenith]

Yeah but I still feel the cd is too low

[teal garden]

already useable, esp with shime gob

[timid zenith]

What all pieces I should keep and what all I should change

[timid zenith]

Changed her to shime one

[teal garden]

flower most likely

[timid zenith]

Remaining is good?

[teal garden]

remaining pieces are decent (finish the circlet)

then you can rotate pieces to balance crit or if they have more total rolls (counting atk% and em)

[timid zenith]

How is this

[teal garden]

Pretty good. Immediately useable

If you want to stop here you can

[timid zenith]

Sorry for am extremely idiotic question but like can yaoyao be used instead of baizhu as healer for the burgeon team?

[teal garden]

yes, but yaoyao burgeon wants careful rotation planning or high er, since her skill lasts only 10sec but her teammates often last longer

[timid zenith]

So I would technically need a high er for a 100% dendro application

So that the burst can make up for the loss of skill time I think

[timid zenith]

Would the+17 one be an upgrade for neuvilett if I level it up to+20?

[teal garden]

not unless you're already over crit rate cap

[timid zenith]

Not really my cr with the 36% is about 84%

[teal garden]

then current feather still likely better

[timid zenith]

@teal garden is Layla usable at c0?

Also what would benifit my account more haitham or baizhu

[teal garden]

if you need a shielder or an extra zhongli she's situationally useful

[teal garden]

neither

baizhu rounds out your dendro teams, especially burgeon comfort. Is also useful in keqing agg (possibly clorinde agg) and peripheral teams for furina

haitham: do you want to play haitham hyperbloom? if yes sure, if it's not pressing your'e fine not pulling

haitham hyperbloom tends to be higher damage for hyperbloom teams but it isn't necessary

if you're not sure just odn't pull and wait for natlan kit leaks

[timid zenith]

Which one would be better on fischl?

[teal garden]

Right has more rolls but optimizer this. If you need help i can send fischl targets in a few hours

[timid zenith]

Optimizer ain't that good at phone and I don't know how to say it up for pc

The fischl targets would be very nice

[teal garden]

https://keqingmains.com/misc/multi-optimization/#54-fischl

if your fischl is in keqing agg team most of the tiem use high agg target

[timid zenith]

Just a general fischl built

[teal garden]

non agg fischl you can use oz dmg to approximate

[timid zenith]

Didn't understood what you mean to say

[timid zenith]

I did look into it but I don't even know how to properly use the optimiser normally so didn't got anything

[teal garden]

outside of agg teams fischl's damage are mostly oz damage, skill and burst cast have their own damage but you can somewhat ignore them and just use oz damage as your optimization target to make things simpler. But because aggravate teams have agg and non-agg instances of skill damage this significantly change the weight em has in the team based on how frequently you aggravate, you want to use aggravate specific optimization targets for agg teams. You copy the code you get in the link into "multi-optimization target" tab in optimizer instead of just selecting oz dmg in the step where you choose "what number are you optimizing".

Ah optimizer changed their website layout. I'll come back and do screenshots in a few hours. Meanwhile, unless you already have a lot of em and/or atk% in other pieces, the circlet with more rolls likely is better.

[timid zenith]

So I was trying the erc but I think that I did something wrong

[teal garden]

4 c6 triggers for faru

[timid zenith]

Is it right now?

Also what is the aimed shot thingy?

[teal garden]

Aimed shot is when you do e ca q on faru instead of just eq swap

It's right now

You typically want Jean to heal every rotation instead of every other on a furina team

[timid zenith]

Where to specify that?

[teal garden]

bottom line

jean 2 (burst every 2 rotation)

change that to 1