No problem

[timid zenith]

And this boss has more resistance against hyperbloom

[teal garden]

otherwise reset

[timid zenith]

Yeah cause you can stick if you by chance miss the window

[teal garden]

no, against anemo

[timid zenith]

It said that the element that swirls has decreased resistance

So that way hyperbloom would be at a disadvantage since you can never swirls dendro

[teal garden]

yes you can bring any team there but anemo will feel sluggish

your hyperbloom team will have hydro and electro

and hyperbloom already brings its hp down before you stun it

[timid zenith]

This is what I was saying

[timid zenith]

How?

[teal garden]

by damage alone

[timid zenith]

I am using DMC for dendro though

He need to be in the circle for dendro to be applied

[timid zenith]

Also just a question hyperbloom cores always hits your enemy right

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbiIbc9vNiY

dmc wouldn't be the best dendro here

but you can google some 3.5 abyss runs for ideas from your own roster

[teal garden]

it chases enemies yes but there's a distance limit

[timid zenith]

Do you remember the distance limit?

[teal garden]

15m

wide enough to not be an issue

most of the time

[timid zenith]

Hmm

[timid zenith]

Also in this one the hyperbloom against the wenut was a pretty close call

And most of the time dendro application was consistent more cause of yaoyao

[teal garden]

xingqiu yaoyao version will be like that

because you have to chase

and also save xingqiu's burst

[timid zenith]

I will most probably use shinobu furina DMC and yaoyao

Would it work?

[teal garden]

#1183260223327178752 message

short rotation teams will do well

[teal garden]

drop dmc, take fischl or yelan

[timid zenith]

Don't have yelan

Still working on 4pc gt for fischl

[timid zenith]

It's a short rotation team?

Sorry don't know the concept of rotation that much

[teal garden]

no wenut and the chasm snake enemy is why short rotation teams are recommended

keqing agg, tighnari spread etc

but a furina based hyperbloom team is fine

short rotation teams: 15sec rotations

long rotation teams: 20sec rotations

anything with xingqiu will not be short rotation

but yelan can (15 sec)

you can take navia with an archer

or navia hyperbloom

fischl doesn't need 4gt if you have rainbow set with decent substats

2gt is fine if you're already getting good pieces

[timid zenith]

Wait let me show you what I currently have

[teal garden]

sure

[timid zenith]

Was able to get only 2pc till now

[teal garden]

already useable for abyss

looks good

[timid zenith]

I was just looking at this and I am just happy seeing how much less tries it took me to complete the abyss this time

Thanks again for all the help you have provided me

[timid zenith]

I had one question
How does the knowledge of elemental gauge theory and ICD change anything between kazuha c0 and c2

Like kazuhas buffing overall requires this knowledge for the double swirl and everything cause every reaction has an elemental cooldown and all and also about how long the aura will last

But I don't think the 200 em buff should affect his rotations cause it's just some extra em for more swirl DMG and extra buff

[teal garden]

between c0 and c2 kazuha gives himself an em buff (and therefore gives the swirled teammates a small increase in elemental dmg buff) but more importantly 200EM to the onfielder

so for characters like keqing, ganyu, childe who really appreciates the em you you want your rotation to focus on their reaction damage

especially important for childe teams

kazuha c2 is one of the high priority 5* investments for a childe team, above childe's own cons

[timid zenith]

Yeah but the rotations would stay the same only

[teal garden]

optimized rotation yes

but if you were foregoing double swirling before

you really shouldn't now

or you wouldn't really want to go for the kazuha c2

so: do you know double swirl rotation for childe?

[timid zenith]

Yeah it's kinda like childes e has more gauge(that u thingy) than Bennett burst so if I do childe e then burst then I will have hydro aura on the enemy and Pyro self aura for the double swirl right

[teal garden]

yes

write out the full (main) rotation for kazuha nd sucrose

kazuha is easier to write and pull off

sucrose's is harder

try XD

[timid zenith]

Yeah

I haven't seen sucrose gauge yet so can you give me some time

[teal garden]

sucrose always applies 1u anemo on enemies

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Elemental_Gauge_Theory/Character_Data

her trickiness is the timing, not the unit amt

[timid zenith]

Yeah cause sucrose can't swirl self infusion

[teal garden]

when you're double swirling on sucrose in a childe team you have to make use of guoba swirl (technique name)

[timid zenith]

Wait don't tell me

[timid zenith]

I know that

[teal garden]

but how to do that, it would be a good exercise to try to figure out or look up info

work hard, zeo

good luck

[timid zenith]

That's what I want to answer exactly

[timid zenith]

This actually answered my one question that I had that why you actually use childe e first and not Bennett burst first
It's cause hydro aura Pyro vape is rev vape so it is 0.5 times the unit gauge which lets hydro aura survive but opposite would remove the Pyro aura but not apply hydro aura just by the reaction cause the trigger can't so pls the aura
This would cause waste of Bennett burst duration which is a major buff in this team right

Also I got the answer to the gouba swirl

It was wrong leave it

[timid zenith]

Oh and if by chance my answer is wrong pls just say that it's wrong

Don't tell me the correct answer

[teal garden]

so yes, Childe E -> Bennett Burst, this part is correct

after that, write out the rest of the rotation

for kazuha first (easier)

then sucrose

[timid zenith]

Ok so I just tried out some things and heres what I found out
My first thought was that goubas flames could be swirled by sucrose but that I just found out is wrong so my next thought was that since timing is the key maybe there are two elements on the enemy but yeah I am sure that the reaction occurs immediately so that's wrong as well

[teal garden]

the thing you swirl is actually guoba and not guoba's flames. When guoba has a red ! on him he briefly has a pyro aura

work from there

[timid zenith]

So yeah I took a little help sorry but if you see this clip that I took from kqm childe guide gouba is getting swirled

I was about to write that

He has Pyro aura when he breathes fire

[timid zenith]

Tried it myself so can confirm

[timid zenith]

So for kazu
First childe e(2U) then Bennett burst(2U) but since it's rev vape then it is 0.5*2U =1U so 1U gauge still remains and we got the self Pyro aura and then kazuha burst or e will double swirl hydro on enemy and self pyro

[timid zenith]

For the gouba swirl
Childe e(2U) on the enemy then gouba and then switch to sucrose and then time her e to when gouba shows the ❗
This way we swirl the hydro on the enemy and Pyro on gouba this will give us the vv proc and if by chance the timing is a little off then also since gouba gauge is 1U in rev vape is becomes 0.5 U so 1.5 U hydro still remains and in the end it becomes Pyro because of the 0.5U for anemo swirl hydro and 2.2*0.5 =1.1 unit for swirl vape

Did I got both of them correctly @teal garden

Now a question does sucrose take gouba as an enemy like if I swirl gouba would I get the 50 em buff from her a1

[teal garden]

guoba is not an enemy

there's no a1

[teal garden]

I think I should take you the rest of the way

kazuha:

childe E -> Bennett Q -> Kazuha EQ -> Xiangling QE -> childe QE comboes
childe applies 2U hydro -> Bennett applies 2U Pyro leaving less than 1U Hydro -> Kazuha Swirls Hydro, Applies Pyro, Swirls Pyro, and therefore both xiangling and childe benefits from vv and kazuha's buffs, especially childe's vaped burst.

sucrose's answer ideally should be more technical:
childe E -> Bennett Q -> Xiangling E -> Sucrose N1E -> Xiangling Q -> Childe QE combo

there is a timing issue here between guoba being summoned, character swapping, guoba becoming pyro etc. Sucrose N1 already swirls and wipes childe's hydro while also timing the E to line up with guoba self-infusing pyro

if something happened in character swap in actual practice you can EE on sucrose to wipe hydro quickly, but N1E will be faster

[timid zenith]

So technically we are just doing two instances of swirl

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

And it's n1e cause of icd right

The icd of na e and q are different so while the na of sucrose might be on icd the skill won't

[teal garden]

sucrose E has no icd N1E is to time your character swap to align with guoba becoming pyro

so if you don't mind staying on sucrose longer you can go -> sucrose E (swirl hydro) wait for enemies to becomoe pyro to E again ( swirl pyro)

it just is slower

[timid zenith]

Hum

But N1 also procs the a1 right

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

In the end is still got it wrong

[teal garden]

you understood the important concepts

and after this you will know how this is done and also how to look up resources for this

well done

[timid zenith]

Thanks

[teal garden]

after this, you can dive into ~sukokomon~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct0m_fX7m8o&t=286s

the key here is also sucrose guoba swirl

most people do not play this comp, despite it being strong

but it's a good fun way to see the game mechanic at play

[timid zenith]

I will look into it

And tell you what I understood of its mechanics

[timid zenith]

So what I understood of sukokomon is this

[timid zenith]

Fischl e-applies electro
Kokomi e-applies hydro to trigger electro charged and have both hydro and electro aura on the enemies
Xiangling e-xiangling gets kokomi ttds buff gouba comes on field for Pyro swirl
Sucrose na and e- na swirls the electro and hydro for the vv shred and em gain and then e to swirl Pyro(here timing is essential to make sure the skill is there then gouba has ❗that is he is having Pyro infusion(but I think here we only proc the vv shred and not the a1 proc since there was no hydro aura on the enemy) also has a lot of swirl reactions
Xiangling burst- snapshots the ttds buff
Kokomi burst-na chains though I don't understand why it's preferred over her most optimal combo of N2C though
Then when oz disappears (10 sec at c0 and 12 sec at c6)we go to fischl burst-refreshes oz
Xiangling e-gouba again
Sucrose-n1e for the electro and Pyro swirl then 2strings of na and burst and then chains of na till 2sec after oz disappears (4sec at c0) this part is just sucroses ability to proc a lot of chain reactions of I get it right since sucrose burst and skill has no icd she is very good for chain reactions

Did I got it right

Although I wasn't able to find any info about the icd of her na so I am assuming that it does has an ICD

[teal garden]

kokomi and sucrose's onfield NA combo matter the least. They're filler for when fischl's cooldowns are ready. Because they're on field you'll also be dodging and chasign enemies. NA on kokomi is just a way to save stamina

[teal garden]

icd info is on kqm tcl for character individual pages as well as the wiki page under the character data tab of internal cooldown

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

Did I get it right though?

[teal garden]

yup

[timid zenith]

What should I focus on next

Cause I am kinda lost rn

[teal garden]

get familiar with erc

[timid zenith]

Is there some guide to how to use it or something

[teal garden]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTsbs-nboNg8atTMjZxn8e6jnB8slMzw1c0_zdG7j__5b0tTAciNZqCzWpSIP3HVDX6nOKrYqS9862O/pub

[timid zenith]

Also by learning all things I am also learning the proper theory crafting right

[timid zenith]

Can you pls pin it

[timid zenith]

And this?

[teal garden]

yes these are tc skills

[timid zenith]

Yay

[timid zenith]

Isn't kokomi na useful as it is providing hydro aura for rev vape and overload on xiangling and also overload with fischl

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

I was just thinking that since at c2 kazuha gains a 200 em at burst so here instead of the usual eq that we do at c0 wouldn't we benifit more from qe since kazuha burst can do a maximum of 6 swirls at a time it can also double swirl and since the burst starts before swirl it will increase his er which will lead to more damage bonus to the double swirl

Just a thought that popped up

[teal garden]

you can do a trade off calculation based on the er needs you want for this rotation

if kazuha has enough ER QE is fine, if not, EQ to catch his own particles

the E swirl buff you get from extra em is not a big part of total team damage but if you're speedrunning you would do the calculation

[timid zenith]

No no not the swirl buff

The DMG bonus buff

He gives damage bonus for the element he swirls based on his em no

Or maybe now that I calculate 8% bonus isn't that big to use this method

[teal garden]

oh hm yes, if you want 200em dmg buff for both elements yes, burst before E

you're right zeo

[timid zenith]

Right at what the calc or the rotation

[teal garden]

QE kazuha for max buff at c2

[timid zenith]

Yay

[teal garden]

and just try to build enough ER

[timid zenith]

Yeah now just 2 kazuha cons to go

Also gella
Would I actually benifit from getting a kazuha c2 or just trying to get more c0 characters

Cause well it looks a bit too good on paper so I wanted to ask about its practical use for me as well

[teal garden]

c2 kazuha is an incremental dmg increase to a small number of teams that are still played, so it depends on whether you want to invest into them:
international
kokomi taser
keqing agg/sometimes other forms of agg
very high skill requirement types of ganyu melt

freeze teams will get a damage increase yes but you're better off getting mist instead of kazuha c2 for ayaka if you already have kokomi over his c2

[timid zenith]

Hum

I suppose I will be better going for more characters only

[teal garden]

yeah that's a reasonable conclusion

[timid zenith]

How is this build for wriothsley

[teal garden]

build looks useable

[timid zenith]

Should I change something in it?

[teal garden]

you have room for more crit rate

esp in the circlet

and if you melt, potentially a little room for em

[timid zenith]

So ideally I should change the curclet

The remaining artifacts other than the circlet are good imo what do you think

[teal garden]

good is just relative it depends on what you'er comfortable with in abyss and how long you want to invest

but after circlet change you're going to start running into deminishing returns in artifact farming that's all

where it will start becoming harder to get improvements

[timid zenith]

Hi gella
Can you pls tell me how much is the dps increase between 2+2 atk and 4pc nighttime for navia

[teal garden]

10~14% early calc, given kqms standards

if you'd like to check for your own account you can load navia into optimizer, and change her sets in the theorycraft tab to see the difference for your team and current build given exactly the same substats

[timid zenith]

Don't know how to do that

The optimiser is still tough for me

[teal garden]

have you done an account scan yet?

[timid zenith]

I did the artifact scan thingy

[teal garden]

ok we can use an example. I don't have navia but I'll use someone else

[timid zenith]

I can send you my navia stats

[teal garden]

1. go to navia and go to theorycraft tab
2. copy from equipped (this will copy what you already have equipped on navia)
3. change the sets and choose whatever set effect you have to set up

then scroll down ->

check your multi target number (for navia if you can't find a multi target number and don't know how to write one let me know, I'll come with one for you)

compare the number between 2 sets

[timid zenith]

There isn't any multi target number here

[teal garden]

you can use navia's E damage number as a pretty good estimate

[timid zenith]

Didn't got a multi target number but the e DMG increase shows about 17.2% increase

And this is with almost trash substats on the 2pc

Guess it will be worth it to farm that domain

[teal garden]

for navia yea

I think you don't have bennett set up right?

set up his burst in team buff

[timid zenith]

I mostly use her with furina and jean

[teal garden]

usually without jean since jean doesn't do much for navia

[timid zenith]

I don't even think her talents are leveled up right In here

[teal garden]

navia bennett furina flex (zhongli/fischl/gmc etc)

[timid zenith]

I use jean for purely for healing purpose

Like this?

[teal garden]

yup

[timid zenith]

How come the DMG didn't increase at all

Like Bennett buff itself should increase the dmg

[teal garden]

screencap your team buff page

[timid zenith]

It's blank

[teal garden]

it should look like this

[timid zenith]

Like this?

Also my furina is c0 so how much fanfare do I usually accumulate I know I have never reached max

[teal garden]

yeah bennett is set up your navia numbers should be different now

how many flashes of her guest on the screen do you get after you use burst

record a video

it will give you a rough idea

[timid zenith]

Yeah it went up like crazy

Let me record

Usually I just am a bit too busy trying to survive that I don't see how much flashes there are

Also I just recorder the complete fight so you can't skip a bit

I didn't even saw a flash?

Skip to 35 seconds

[teal garden]

the white flash is when you have full stacks, yes at 45sec

when jean used her burst you immediately got about 200

[timid zenith]

I got full fanfare

It's crazy I have never gotten full

I thought you can instant get to full only at c2

And it just took 5 sec with jean

I am so surprised I don't know what to say

Wait how come furina fanfare bonus decrease the difference between pieces?

Since Charlotte is a partywide healer is her healing better than jean?

[teal garden]

well with charlotte you forgo jean's vv debuff which helps furina's damage (and only her damage) and instead get some more aoe elemental app in case you need the crystallize

[teal garden]

because atk/atk will underperform against nighttime whispers when you have bennett in the team, but furina's dmg buff will make atk+atk perform better (multiplicative) while her buff is additive with nighttime whispers buff (dmg bonuses)

[timid zenith]

I think furinas hydro application for crystalize purpose is kinda enough cause those salon members really do follow the enemies everywhere so yeah I am good from elemental application point of view

[teal garden]

then jean for higher furina damage

[timid zenith]

But still a 15% DMG increase

I think it will be worth my reisins to build a proper navia as she has the capability of becoming one of my best dps

Maybe even outdo raiden

[teal garden]

the issue is both crit raiden and navia currently want bennett

so they're playing on the same side of abyss

just different bennett teammates

[timid zenith]

Well I don't use Bennet with navia cause his healing never gets me full fanfare plus it wastes time to switch to every single character to manually heal

Bennett healing stops at 75% max hp if iirc

[teal garden]

bennett isn't there for furina damage he's there for navia's

in a furina team, build bennett hp/hp/hb so that he can heal above 75% with 1~2 ticks

[timid zenith]

I don't know why I am this stupid

Currently I am just thinking about furina fanfare

[teal garden]

no you're doing well. When you're trying to balance buffs trade offs you sometimes forget stuff

[timid zenith]

Mine is currently er hp hb

Yup was right about that

This will heal above 75% ?

I suppose it's because of high ping that he is able to heal more than 75%?

I remember I read about it once but don't remember

[teal garden]

bennett will always heal above 75% if you're close but not quite at 75%

building for max healing just maximize the chances

[timid zenith]

But doesn't his kit discription says that he will heal till 75%

[teal garden]

it works like this, when your onfield character is on bennett circle, the circle checks every second whether the onfield character's hp is above 75, if it is, circle tick does nothing, if it's below, the tick heals for the amt determined by bennett's burst scaling

so for some low level characters you can heal them to 100% with a single tick

even if you're 1hp below 75% and the tick is for 6k, you get 6k of healing

[timid zenith]

So that's why it's recommended to go hp hp hb so that the healing overflows the 75% mark

And since furina fanfare considers 100% hp heal as 100 fanfare it's 100 fanfare easy

[timid zenith]

So should I change it to hp sands?

[teal garden]

if your er allows it yes

[timid zenith]

Don't know

[teal garden]

is it still for the navia team?

[timid zenith]

I use Bennet in a number of teams

Based on what I have to fight

So I usually prefer a general build

[teal garden]

if you can get more er rolls in other pieces you can switch to hp sands

otherwise stay with this

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

How much er rolls are we taking about exactly

[teal garden]

try to keep bennett around 230ER or so

in a navia team if you swap off navia to refresh bennett and jean E you can switch to an hp sands now

but for generalist bennett build where he's sometimes a buffer for selfish long field time carries, maintain higher ER

[timid zenith]

Well I don't have navia 4pc currently so yeah the navia team will have to wait

Like I am on this domain for some time and still haven't got any good flower or anything

Not to mention all my geo goblets are trash

[teal garden]

for a dps character it takes a few months, budget for 2 month initially and judge yoru progress as you go

[timid zenith]

I see

Well so I am gonna be in that domain for some time then

Whom do you recommend me to strongbox for
eosf for xiangling(either er sands or cr circlet
Vermillion for xiao(kinda almost everything except circlet and flower)
Or mh for a good cdmg circlet for wriothsley

Also I can do gt for fischl

[timid zenith]

Also another question how do I plant for talents and weapon mats?
Do I just do them after 2 months when artifact farming is done or I just do them in between when I see them on their day?

[teal garden]

you can do that any time. Typically boss and talent time is fixed and you'll have to do them no matter what, so you can get a character level high which improves their survivability if you want to get used to playing them on overworld. But artifact farming is open ended, you stop whenever you feel you're done.

I also tend to only focus on necessary talent to the degree I'm comfortable with. lvl 6 for some freebie damage and lvl 9 for the important talents. For em scaling characters leaving kuki burst at 1 is fine etc

as for strongbox it's also somewhat open ended. If you're feeling like emblem is done then move on to other characters. 4tf is a good set to have for keqing and cyno, and you can use 2tf on some characters like yae or beidou if you don't want to farm full emblems for beidou

typically when you're farming 4pc sets you'll end up with some decent extra 2p, this can be a factor in what artifacts are efficient to farm/strongbox

for xiao I would just start with 2atk2atk or 2atk2anemo and do vermillion at a slower pace.

make sure you have good vv sets for your vv characters. after that you can decide if you want tenacity bad enough to go for some tenacity or just go back to doing tf, emblem, xiao set etc

[timid zenith]

Got it

[timid zenith]

I was wondering there must be some place where all the spreadsheets containing the data about weapon dps DMG etc is stored cause some of them that I have seen being used have WFP written on them

Where can I find those?

[teal garden]

wfp ones are in the website as they are part of wfp's pre-tc guides pipeline

https://wangshengfp.org/faq/

[timid zenith]

Wait WFP also makes guides?

[teal garden]

yes the first day info we have are based on wfp pipeline

and then characters are playtested and make it into kqm quick guide

then eventually full guide

[timid zenith]

So these are tc guides

[teal garden]

tc team makes them

[timid zenith]

No no I mean like they are based on pure release information

[teal garden]

they're based on pre-release info whatever we can get

[timid zenith]

Then when they are released they are tested on game and then the kqm guides are made

[teal garden]

yup

[timid zenith]

That's why kqm guides are preferred I guess?

[teal garden]

the difference between quickguide and wfp guides tend to be very very small

so the helpers use both because you can sometimes find some extra info between them

[timid zenith]

Yeah it's almost exactly similar

[teal garden]

then when the extended kqm guides are released they tend to have a lot more info as well as more mature teams. these also take a while to update if they do need to be updated

[timid zenith]

Yeah I was seeing this and it has only 6 guides?

Like isn't a guide made for every character

[timid zenith]

Is there some website for kqm guides spreadsheets as well

[teal garden]

on the individual pages of the longer guides you'll find links to their mastersheets

and you can also join kqm and get role access to their public tc channels to get early access to some things not yet ready for the website but nearly so

[timid zenith]

I am a member of kqm

But don't know how to get the role

Yup just as I thought it isn't a part of react roles

Alright got them

[teal garden]

#939411507127668758 message

get the guide submission role (or as many of these as you want)

[timid zenith]

Wow it has so much tc stuff

[teal garden]

yeah

you know zeo I think you may enjoy tc role now

and you'll probably get in now

tc doesn't have the barrier to entry that helper has, and tc you'll be with people who can answer your questions and double check each other's work. You do have to contribute to stay in tc tho at least once in one of the guides process

nat (one of our helper team lead and also in tc) has discussed your application and progress with me and think you'll fit right in in tc

[timid zenith]

Nah I understand it's obvious to contribute otherwise what is the use of getting the role

How to apply

Cause out of the two goals of mine one is to become tc researcher and another helper

[teal garden]

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScmWDWsQXstySvaawIx7TO5cf4Ch84zfwDIhP1DIZGtxJETaw/viewform

if you apply lmk I can tell peep we've been working together on game mechanic

and natc can also look over your app

[timid zenith]

I just saw it

And I don't know much about most of this stuff

Can I still apply if I don't know much about GitHub and frame counting

[teal garden]

yes

people will teach you

frame counting there's a video to get started. I didn't learn it until I got the role either

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yA9Pjdq86A

[timid zenith]

A tc researcher has to moderate the chat as the helper role?

[teal garden]

depends. tc-mod is its separate role but if you're a participant in one of the public-facing tc channels then you want to keep an eye on things, at least while you're there

[timid zenith]

Ok so I just filled it up

[teal garden]

okie I'll let nat know

[timid zenith]

Thanks God it's via a software

I thought you have to farm count mannually

[teal garden]

you have to load a video into a softwhere where you can advance the frames one frame at a time

because you're counting fractions of a second

[timid zenith]

Yeah

But what's the advantage of framecounting

[teal garden]

it has to do with maximizing damage. So you know how different characters have different scalings for their n1, n2, n3 etc? But the time it takes for them to do n1, n2, n3 etc are also different. So with framecounting you will be able to know whether you want to do N5 looping or N3D N3D N3D etc. Same applyes for EQ/QE or animation cancels

infusions like hutao etc also has a time limit (you get 12 seconds let's say) so in order to maximize the number of worth-it hits to do you may want to skip some hits and animation cancel others

[timid zenith]

Oh yeah

So that's why all those leaked vedios of the kits are so important

They give the frame count

[teal garden]

yeah!

see the frames column

that's what it's about

[timid zenith]

I always used to think what godd they were

[timid zenith]

One question how is poise DMG calculated

Like I know it's the DMG that could make your character stagger

[teal garden]

poise is fixed for characters based on your weapon type and sometimes exceptions (wrio heizou has melee poise)

[timid zenith]

Yeah but how is it calculated? From the code?

[teal garden]

https://genshin-impact.fandom.com/wiki/Interruption_Resistance/Poise

scroll down to poise damage

[timid zenith]

Kinda got it

[teal garden]

a few things to keep in mind: raise your character level to be within 30lvl of the enemy, use teammates that give you damage interruption if you can (and they're multiplicative so all of it helps)

these are the only things you can control outside of knowing certain characters and certain skills give higher damage interruption

[timid zenith]

Slimes have the highest endurance in this game💀

And the shortest poise bar length

[timid zenith]

This build is way too much copium I guess

[teal garden]

cv on the lower end, er is fine, you'd be able to start taking her to abyss like this

[timid zenith]

Yeah I also think her cr is way too copium

It's just that this domain hates me

I got 4 freaking flat atk

[timid zenith]

I should try for 70/140 right

[teal garden]

yes

otherwise you could have just gone for a higher cv 2+2 on her without farming nighttime whispers for the same damage

[timid zenith]

Yeah I guess you are right but I just need a better flower and circlet
Cause I believe the feather and sands are good

And well my luck with geo gobs is just terrible

This is what she was using previously so I think this is indeed an improvement

Also gella an important question is there any limit to how many times you can apply for the helper role?

[timid zenith]

But for that I will kinda need like pure cv 2+2 artifacts which by themselves are pretty rare

[timid zenith]

Do you think it will we worth it to change to this flower
The other stats are completely trash but I think the 14% cr is something

Like the atk decrease is just by is just by 28 units which I don't think is that much but I am a bit worried about the 11.7% er

Cause without this the only er she will have is skywards 2nd stat

[teal garden]

depends on the er situation

if you have enough ER, def switch

if you don't, def do not, her ER helps her get her dmg stacks

[timid zenith]

It would be 138.6 from skyward

[teal garden]

yeah then it's fine

usually in her current teams unless it's furina bennett fischl

[timid zenith]

Or I can use this goblet

It has about 4% less cd but I don't think it should be that bad

Sorry I am still not that good with numbers to know if the cd decrease is significant or not

[timid zenith]

What do you think?

This would be her build then

[timid zenith]

Also pls do tell if you find it good or not and if I can now call this build complete

[teal garden]

7 crite rate is worth twice 7cd, switch

[teal garden]

go straight to artifact page in game

do a quick cv calculation

it doesn't factor in anything like atk or er but will give you a good estimate of build quality

[timid zenith]

What should be the ideal cv?

[teal garden]

I think you have what, 220cv now? it's done

180cv for low to mid-ER builds should clear comfortably in the right team. viable well before that

[timid zenith]

Artifacts alone have 172.6cv

[teal garden]

oh I missed something somewhere, was it her ascension I missed

ah yeah

172 should do pretty well

if you want to farm further you still can and expect some reasonable improvements, if luck allows it

but anything after that you tend to run into artifact statistics wall

so it can be a personal decision to farm into the asymptote but we don't really recommend doing that anymore. Esp if it's for something like less than a percent difference in improvement you can farm a whole new character to "comfortablly clear abyss"

[timid zenith]

So I can call it complete till it comes in strongbox?

[timid zenith]

What's artifacts statistics wall?

[teal garden]

it has to do with the drop rates for low to high rolls of each substat and the chances of getting 3 and 4liners

[timid zenith]

Ok

So if I farm it further the improvement wouldn't be much right?

[teal garden]

oversimplification but it tends to go like this

rv is roll value, total number of relevant rolls in a build

[teal garden]

yeah

[timid zenith]

The steepness is way too much

But I seriously don't want to be stuck in this stupid domain any longer

It's way too inefficient

[teal garden]

navia you can go a bit further if you like, mostly because she doesn't have any reaction multipliers and appreciate cold hard stats. And she's also capable of doing a good chunk of team damage. So farming a bit further can be good for geo dps's. But if she's already clearing and this is an inefficient domain for you, stopping now is fine and you can farm more whenever you have an opening

if I recall you have a lot of characters you pulled previously

fwiw I also stopped around 170cv for neuvilette, where he clears very comfortably

[timid zenith]

Can I see your neuvilette once

[timid zenith]

Guess I will go back to gt domain for 4 PC on fischl

[teal garden]

it's just a normal neuv build

[timid zenith]

But since mh 4pc gives 36% cr shouldn't the cv become 242%

Just curious

Or when you are calculating the artifacts cv you don't consider 4 PC effects?

[teal garden]

when you're counting cv you count without the set bonus

when you're just using cv as an estimate for farming time and room for upgrade, does that make sense?

[timid zenith]

Now that you put it this way yeah it wouldn't make sense for static stats that would be there no matter what

[teal garden]

yeah, you don't count weapon, ascension, team buffs, you also don't count set bonuses.

you would count ALL of them for team damage

[timid zenith]

Thus actually explains why the kqm standard specify the artifact cv and not the character cv

Just one more question gaming benifits from mh right

[teal garden]

allegedly yes, either mh or cw

[timid zenith]

Got it

[timid zenith]

Hey gella
Just wanted to confirm once that I can fill the form to apply for helper again right

Like it has been 2 weeks

[teal garden]

Has it been? So fast. But yea you are elligible to reapply

Good luck!

[timid zenith]

Why does this weenut move so much

That Drake was easier than this

Please help me
I just don't understand what I should do to even hit that weenut

[teal garden]

https://youtu.be/QOUW3wGeDh4
time stamp

you typically get 2 boss movement cycles to bring it down

so orb stage twice

warning the youtuber makes some dirty jokes I didn't notice them when this guide first came out

[timid zenith]

Thanks for the heads up

[timid zenith]

So how much time in total would I need?

[teal garden]

try to budget 1:30 or more second half

[timid zenith]

I had almost 2 minutes and still couldn't do it

[teal garden]

watch the video from the begining for the movement patterns

if you have long rotation teams that need a full set up (raiden national) you will split your rotations instead of doing them fully in the first 4 or 5 movements in a way that you have your burst for when the boss is down

if you have short rotation teams you can typically do full rotations in the moving around phase

[timid zenith]

Got it

[timid zenith]

Do you have any vedio of how the weenut done with the rational or kuki hyperbloom?

Cause I tried a bit but the weenut just takes a bit too much

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKSaIBPUttI

[teal garden]

ok I'm doing the 2nd chamber now. I remember now:

try to do 50second first half

for 2 full stuns second half you need more than 2 minuters

[timid zenith]

I think this floor 12 isn't good for navia

Right?

[teal garden]

navia can do it as long as she has the right teammates for takign down wenut and aeonblight

she's definitely good first half

[timid zenith]

So for first half I can go with navia furina Bennett albedo?

But if I use Bennett there I won't have anything for phase 2 except hyperbloom

[teal garden]

yeah

[timid zenith]

I really need to get characters that don't rely on Bennet xiangling core

[teal garden]

hyperbloom or keqing agg (yae agg) is a good team second half

you have furina right?

she's also good second half (both halves acltayly

[timid zenith]

I have furina

But no keqing

[timid zenith]

Neither yae

[teal garden]

hm, in terms of comfort you might have some sacrifices

[timid zenith]

I just want my 50 primos
Even if I have to stay at it for how long I don't care

[teal garden]

but you can do jean furina beidou fischl and quickswap first half
furina fischl kuki flex can be second half

[timid zenith]

But in the second team it isn't that strong cause my kuki has em built

[teal garden]

second half without a healer is doable if you have a team that's good that way

[timid zenith]

With the weenut the only problem is that's thing takes way too much time

I almost need like 2.5-3 minutes to kill it

[teal garden]

what team are you using there?

do you hav e a video

[timid zenith]

Don't have a vedio

[teal garden]

you want to get it down to around 2min and try to do first half 50sec. sorry I gave you the wrong time before (1;30)

[timid zenith]

Tried the navia team it failed
Tried hyperbloom but since I am using yaoyao and traveller it is a bit uneven application with most cores hyperblloming when it isn't around

[teal garden]

ah you want to switch one of the dendro to fischl or xingqiu

so that you have more damage when you need it

yaoyao traveler takes a while to set up and you do not need 2 dendro on second half

[timid zenith]

I did got a nahida recently but currently she is at lvl 40

[teal garden]

rip

[timid zenith]

I don't think she will be able to help currently

[timid zenith]

So I should use one but who

[teal garden]

I used yaoyao this time because I didn't build dmc

but either one works

the bosses spawn predictably

[timid zenith]

Yeah the weenut has fixed movements but it just moves too much

[teal garden]

you can time yaoyao e in a way where you have enough dendro every time it shows up

[timid zenith]

How do I do that

[teal garden]

it spawns in the back of the room twice before going to the top of the room, put the first e in the lower left then go to the top of the room for another e. it goes up vertically in the top of the room for a decent amt of time for you to do damage and then goes in the 10 or 2oclock location briefly, enough for you to battery. Then it comes up in the top of the room for the big aerial orb movement where you can damage and battery at the beginning and you should stay in the top of the room anyway so that you can stun it instantly when it comes down and makes 2 orbs. This way you don't have to shoot any orb

^ you do this twice, 2 minutes.

[timid zenith]

Do you happen to have a vedio of it

Cause tbh I didn't understood most part

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ueb51yBVzrc&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.zleague.gg%2F&source_ve_path=MjM4NTE&feature=emb_title

try a video or the video I linked to yesterday

the movement pattern is like this

it comes up in the center most of the time initially, then at 2. so put yaoyao e between 1 and 2

then it goes in the 3 direction for A LONG TIME vertically, enough for you to do a lot of damage, then it goes in the 4 direction or the 4 direction in the other side of 3 (so 10 and 2 o clock)

then stay near 3 it will do movement 5, where it goes up and around the room and when it's where you see 2 blue dots it makes the orbs. Stand where the 2 dots are and use a single aoe skill, if you do it right the boss goes down instantly for you to unload your maximum damage

remember try to get the first half around 50sec and no more than 1 min

[timid zenith]

Would try that

[timid zenith]

So I just tried the abyss and I am able to do first part of abyss with navia jean albedo and furina in approx 1 minute and 10 sec

What could I do to decrease the time taken here

I did try to use Bennett but I need him second half for raiden national

So you think maybe I might to able to perform better by improving on my rotation

[timid zenith]

So based on my experience I have found out two things
The rotations of raiden national are way too long for the weenut and hyperbloom takes way too long

Hence I need some other team for this

Do you have some recommendations

Also that with navia furina jean and albedo I am able to do first half in about 1min

[teal garden]

drop jean for bennett

oh hm

show a video

1min 10sec is about right, you may be able to shave 20sec off with better grouping, mostly jean's E when enemies can be grouped

[teal garden]

raiden national can do it but you will have to split your rotation well on movements 1 through 4

there's not a whole lot you can do except know your energy management well and wenut movement well

[timid zenith]

I believe my energy isn't good enough

Cause if I use their bursts during the movement phase I just am not able to have them back by the weakened stage of the weenut

I was thinking of using a quickbloom team with kuki DMC xingqui and navia

And raiden xiangling Bennett furina first half

Cause navias nuke DMG is pretty good for the weenut

[timid zenith]

Also would navia get the dmg bonus of quicken

[teal garden]

navia has nothing to do with the quicken reaction

and quicken somewhat interferes with her crystallize

overall can still work

[timid zenith]

This is what typically happens with rational

Why is it not letting me send the vedio?

[timid zenith]

Also I was thinking that since you said that a freeze team with ayaka and ganyu is good for the weenut what if I use ganyu ayaka furina and a healer for the second half

I don't have 2 bs pieces but have a melt ganyu and ayaka can be made with 2pc bs and 2pc atk

Do you think it will work

Also both are 80/80 unascended

[timid zenith]

https://youtu.be/U2ejpt5QJUg?feature=shared

Here's the vedio

[teal garden]

yoru damage is fine but I think you should look up sevy (or similar) video guide on 4.4 on which enemy to target first. On chamber 2 start with the right enemy will group them a lot easier.

no need to use albedo burst unless it's to dodge damage

[timid zenith]

I actually did try that but then somehow it takes more time to kill them

Cause that bird is way far away

This way I can kill the bird easy and then go there cause the other guy will follow me anyway

However the problem is still the weenut

[teal garden]

zeo I'm in the middle of a thing but I will come back and look at the video more closely and read your things more closely. But I agree the key is how you handle wenut no matter how long first half took. It IS possible to go 1:30 first half and do wenut but it will require rotation management. do you have a video of you doing wenut actually, thats the one I wanted to see

[timid zenith]

This one has the weenut part too

It's the entire chamber 2

[timid zenith]

Sure you can take your time

Do ping me though

[teal garden]

ok I reviewed this more closely. I think your dps is excellent but I think you may be able to shave some seconds off this way:

first side I still think you should start on the right side (lady) first because you can see in your run that when you ran behind the guy towards the lady, the lady jumped backwards and ungrouped your enemies. But if you start on the lady side the guy will come towards you no matter what and you can will be able to hit the guy with spillover damage from attackin the lady. wave 2 you did fine, you can target whichever enemy it doesn't make much difference.

Wenut you're doing well predicting where the enemy will go. But when you Raiden E Xingqiu EQ just hit wenut with NA on movement 2 and try to get xingqiu energy back. Bennett Q Xiangling Q took too long. Unless you cast it before wenut comes up out of the ground and battery through its movement 2. You want to try to get enough energy back for maybe 1 more rotation when wenut comes up out of the ground vertically in movement 3 (top of the chamber). Then just battery as well as you can. You did well stunning it. But you may want to review the comprehensive guide video for how to stun it faster. Did well overall.

[timid zenith]

But if I want to do the weenut with rational I would need 2 round which means more than 2 min time

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wa3SfVBA70

no actually raiden national can do it without 2 full stuns!

because you can do damage in the movements 1~4

but you often just want to skip full rotation, dont' try to do xiangling vape on movement 2

just NA on xingqiu since you already used his burst

another trick is dont' use visual cues

just go where your'e supposed to go, slap down bennett burst xianglign burst, and wenut will come out where you expect

if you want to vape on movement 2

^ this video has an example on how to do damage on movements 1 ~4

they took 1:15 first half

[timid zenith]

How did he even do it

The artifact level is more or less equal to mine

Well now it is since I am using pjws on xiangling for this one

[teal garden]

one difference is he stun it better than you did (using EC) and also went to wenut locations faster (you knew where to go but second guessed yourself and lost some time)

[timid zenith]

Yeah

[teal garden]

also you were using bennet circle when the boss was nearly disappearing

[timid zenith]

I just assumed it's rng so wait and see

[teal garden]

just go where you think it shold be. After a few tries you def will know exactly where to go

[timid zenith]

Humm

Well since I am doing only this for the past day I think I have come to understand his movements

Well I will try it

[timid zenith]

Where did I use Bennett circle when the weenut is disappearing?

[teal garden]

movement 2 first before stun

[timid zenith]

So what I understood from that vedio is saved the dmg window by using the burst animation during the waiting time and using the window just for dmg

[teal garden]

start 2:42 and watch a bit

[timid zenith]

Seeing this vedio actually made me realise I was actually going to the right place but stopped and then go again

This way I wasted a lot of time

Plus if I use xiangling burst after movement 2 I can get more dps window during the third step for more dmg

Just like the vedio

[teal garden]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05tiKC3ALhc
this video does the wenut rotation splitting even more elegantly

you're getting there zeo

[timid zenith]

But it's yelan

Yelan does more DMG than xingqui

[teal garden]

less about who it is and more about how they're doing rotations

also this is fav c0 yelan

she does the same dmg as xingqiu

[timid zenith]

Their rotations were crazy good

I don't even know how they did it

But a point to note is that you can make the weenut come to the side movement 1

That way I can just use the complete rotation movement 1 and 2 one itself

One question pjws perform better on xiangling than db right?

[teal garden]

if this is raiden national, no actually

the difference is so small tho that stat distribution could make a difference

so you want to use the raiden national opti target and do a test

[timid zenith]

Ah looks like I did a mistake changing from db to pjws then

Well can really do much about unless I wanna do chamber 1 again

[teal garden]

dps looks good when you were attacking them tbh, maybe try a few more times before deciding if changing weapon is worth a try.

[timid zenith]

Ok

[timid zenith]

Finally it's done

This damn weenut took me 3 entire days

Thanks a lot for those vedios though they were a real help in able to understand how to do it

[timid zenith]

Do you know how to change gamings colors to blue purple

[teal garden]

it's just time of day

congrats on wenut. it'll get easier the next time around

[timid zenith]

I hope so

[timid zenith]

So there is technically no way of controlling it other than changing the day to desired time?

Also day as in real time day or game day?

[teal garden]

game day

so you can change the game clock and wait for his idle animation

at night it will be blue

[timid zenith]

Wait the color change is only in his idle?

It's not like his skill color also change?

[teal garden]

I think it's just idle

but I don't specifically remember about battle in overworld

[timid zenith]

Ok

Guess I will try myself

[timid zenith]

I don't understand why but for me gaming colors didn't even change with time

And yes I am talking about his idle animation

Can it be a bug

[teal garden]

so make sure your game clock is properly night

if it's near daybreak it will be red

[timid zenith]

So by proper night can you tell me the time period

Like from 9-8 or something like that

[teal garden]

if the clock goes past these marks you'll likely get red

[timid zenith]

Alright thanks

So the problem was in the time afterall

[timid zenith]

Which 4* character should I take for the event?

[teal garden]

if you plan to build gaming, gaming, if you don't, yunjin or yaoyao

[timid zenith]

Ok so how do I build gaming

Mh with atk DMG crit ?

[teal garden]

before c6 yes

at c6 you can overcap crit rate pretty easily

so depends on how far you are from c6 (alternative is crimson witch)

otoh you can always pass the mh set to the next character in a furina team

even meme teams

[timid zenith]

Just 3 cons left and I still have to get the lantern rite character

[teal garden]

mh for now

you have a potentially decent amt of time before c6

[timid zenith]

I do intend to keep wishing for xianyun so yeah I expect to c6 him

[teal garden]

with xianyun you don't need that many crit rate rolls to overcap

so it depends on how your substats are rolling

[timid zenith]

Guess I will just hold building gaming for now then

[teal garden]

yes because another thing you have to think about is whether you want to c6 bennett for him

he appreciates it quite a bit in a furina xianyun bennett team

[timid zenith]

Mine is already c6
Did it the day I got his final Stella fortuna

[teal garden]

then he's a pretty good onfielder

just competes for bennett against xiangling that's all

[timid zenith]

Hm

And for weapon?

I don't have flowers mail sadly

The two options I was thinking were rainslasher and the event blade from 4.3

Which one is better

[teal garden]

rainslasher

[timid zenith]

Is the even claymore good on him

Cause his er requirements are kinda high

[teal garden]

nto with bennett

it's around 120ish

[timid zenith]

Oh yeah 35% er is reduced with his c4

My bad

Then rainslasher it is finally that weapon will have a owner

[timid zenith]

I just got a c6 faruzan

So what set would be good on her?

[teal garden]

4tenacity

build her subdps with high ER now that she has c6

ER target depends on how many anemo you ultimately plan on using her with

xiao triple anemo, her er is very low

wanderer double anemo, she still wants fairly high ER, give her around 210 or so with fav

[timid zenith]

So er anemo crit?

Also I don't have tenacity as of now would any other set works or she prefers tenacity only

[teal garden]

when you have c6 you can reasonably have enough ER to build atk/anemo/crit on fav

can you get over 200 with fav?

if so, atk sands

try to get ER kind of high, a little past what she needs

since you don't want anybody waiting for her burst

meanwhile with atk sands she is a subdps in anemo teams, so it's worth trying to get her to around 60/120

[teal garden]

noblesse still works or 2+2 if someone else has it

in anemo team she tends to hold tenacity while someone else (bennett or xianyun) holds noblesse

[timid zenith]

Wanted to ask does getting xianyun would benifit my team or not?

Cause I do have furina and all the plunge attackers

[teal garden]

yes she works well in gaming and xiao teams currently

diluc as well

or meme teams in a bennett xianyun furina core

[timid zenith]

How is this childe build

[teal garden]

crit rate too low

cv is useable for many characters but childe wants higher crit to be comfortable, over even a 4pc set

it's better to go for 2+2 with highest cv (and higher crit rate, 75+) so for the AOE burst damage critting

remember if you have a 50% crit on 2 enemies you crit on both of them 25% of the time

childe NA does very little damage

level his burst

[timid zenith]

But if I try to go for 75+ cr his cd would be very low?

[teal garden]

yes, this is why i strongly recommend farming for 2+2 instead

stack crit (both of them)

try to maintain your ER

are you strictly f2p?

[timid zenith]

Yup

Never spend anything on this game

[timid zenith]

How much er ?

[teal garden]

120 minimum but 130 is very comfortable

it all depends on how much crit you can stack

at lower crit rate you'll have to give up one rotationing a wave of enemies in a reliable way and just keep doing your rotations instead

do you have stringless actually

instead of proto

[timid zenith]

Yes I have stringless

[teal garden]

use that instead

it nukes much better than proto

[timid zenith]

Ok and how much cv should I aim at

[teal garden]

try to go for 75/130 for regular abyssing but if you want to speed run you can crit fish instead and flip the crit ratio

speed runners typically do something like 60/200 with a crit weapon on childe and just reset until all enemies crit in aoe

if you can't get past 60/120 then settle for childe being a xiangling enabler

dps is still good when enemies are grouped

[timid zenith]

How about this one

It's close to 70/110

But the er is way too low

[teal garden]

you can start using like this

you just have to watch when you use burst

[timid zenith]

Watch as in?

[teal garden]

save his burst for when it would do the most good

when enemies have enough hp to take it

[timid zenith]

Ok

Btw in this case I will burst every other rotation right

[teal garden]

roughly yes

early on I had childe around where your ER is and he did ok

but once you get more crit and a bit more ER things feel quite a bit better

[timid zenith]

So currently it's being speculated the neuvilett might have a rerun in 4.5 so just wanted to ask who would be better neuvilett or xianyun

I feel it would be neuvilett considering he is practically the best unit in game but still

[teal garden]

they're completely different directions to take an account. Neuvilette is an onfielder with some decent team slots but c0 without interrupt resistance means you'll be building around the lack of interrupt resistance.

Xianyun at c0 without sig isn't much better than bennett in a xiao team in terms of sheer dps but a complete xiao team (c6 faruzan xianyun furina) now allows you freedome from circle impact, which makes xiao a lot easier to play in different environments. Outside of xiao you'll very likely be forming teams around xianyun that are NOT free from circle implact

neither are must pulls but if you definitely want to pull something now you can consider what you like better

we're also middle of the nation patch, there may be more dps and supports down the line that we don't know about

[timid zenith]

So it's gonna be completely my choice then?

Guess I will go for neuvilett

[timid zenith]

@teal garden would you please teach me tc stuff

[teal garden]

We kind of are already doing that zeo don't worry we will do erc next

[timid zenith]

Btw when are we starting the ERC?

[teal garden]

any time you like. You may want to list some teams you're interested in

and we'll go through how to use ERC for them

and after that you can try branching out into unfamiliar teams

[teal garden]

you asked about gaming glowing blue

at first I thought it was time of day

but I think it may actually be random

[timid zenith]

Games mostly follow a common logic code so I think there has got to be some pattern to it cause of it was random the blue one wouldn't be that rare

[timid zenith]

Also if you don't mind can we like put the ERC on hold for some time cause my exams are finally over and I wanted to have some free time

please

[teal garden]

No prob zeo these things can happen as you become ready for them. This is a hobby. There are no deadlines

[timid zenith]

Thanks a lot

[timid zenith]

Alright so like I think currently let's just focus on international and rational as typical examples for the teams cause I think their rotations are simple

So how to use ERC for them

[teal garden]

rational is the easy one to do, you can pick a rotation you prefer or copy one someone else did frame counting for

one such is: raiden E xingqiu EQ(E) Bennett QE Xiangling QE Bennett E Raiden Q4N E 3(N4D)

you'd count the rotation length: assume it's close to 20sec, count the number of skill use per character

and enter them into erc

so the work is done for you

you can change it up for your own rotation and see what er you get and test it in abyss

learnign to use ERC is practice

as you do new teams, you'll have to learn new character energy mechanic and understand rotations and that's how erc teaches you game mechanic

it's not just knowing how to do it for one or 2 teams

it's knowing how to do erc for all of them

for international, you can go 2 ways: short 20sec rotation or long 30ish sec rotation

the ER for xiangling is drastically different

but now is a time to practice your childe team rotation that include batterying XD

try, don't worry if it's wrong the first time, that's really normal

but doing the steps will help you understand where knowledge gaps are

and finding the knowledge gaps is what's important in this exercise

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlkYG11H3G8

you may find this guide useful

not sure if you have seen it before

[timid zenith]

So like suppose if I do 3 Bennett skills for batterying and 1 skill energy has to go to Bennett and other two to xiangling how should I do it??

[teal garden]

the % is the portion of particles fed

[timid zenith]

Is dehya good for anything at all

I just lost 5050 to her so wanted to know if it's a waste character of it has some use

[teal garden]

niche use in burn-melt ganyu and neuvilette teams

as dps, damage is on the low side

[timid zenith]

Meaning technically she is useless

[teal garden]

currently if you don't have ganyu, neuv, lyney, no strong reason to raise her

[timid zenith]

How are these two builds

[teal garden]

very in progress builds

for childe forget 4pc bonus and focus on crit ratio

4hod isn't that great on him

if you have atk+atk with good ratio and crit value use those instead

ganyu looks better but with freeze you want about 130ER on her (team dependent) and you want more crit rolls over all

[timid zenith]

So technically all the pieces are kinda useless

[teal garden]

ganyu: keep going where you're headed

childe: start looking for pieces in atk, noblesse, hod, em sets

childe's flower and goblet is pretty good, that's a 2hod already

look for better pieces elsewhere

[timid zenith]

The only reason I am trying 4pc hod is because this game is being pretty generous with giving me hod pieces

Also isn't like 4pc hod better than atk+atk at same cv

[teal garden]

ganyu has a strong flower and a useable goblet

[teal garden]

no, 4hod is slightly better on paper only when you're up against enemies with infinite hp. But childe is strong in wave/aoe content where enemies die early in a rotation

[timid zenith]

So which one is strongers practically??

[teal garden]

2hod+2no, or any 2+2 combo with best cv

[timid zenith]

Atk+atk or hydro+hydro or hydro+atk

[teal garden]

the difference between 2+2 is small enough that you'd go for better cv

if you already have a good 4hod, sure use it

but you don't. and it's not recommended to spend resin on hod pieces much further beyond a 2pc

[timid zenith]

I am kinda forced to do the domain for bs

[teal garden]

do you have other artifact domain to farm?

for ganyu I'd strongbox blizzard and forget hod

[timid zenith]

Yup gt

[teal garden]

farm gt

forget hod

[timid zenith]

And the dendro one

[timid zenith]

So I just got chiori and wanted to know what weapon I should give her I do have cinnabar but it's currently on albedo and I was thinking of using the team of Noelle gorou albedo and chiori so please help me what weapons to give to whom

[teal garden]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11IU-KRQY4D9FGuwR9jTnwaWYkcb6Yeu-aXF-nJjLuPA/edit

tldr of it is that if 4star weapons are all you have and you don't have bp, chiori and albedo compete for cinnabar

but you can give harbinger of dawn to a character you have a higher chance of maintaining 90% hp on

[timid zenith]

Both harbinger and cinnabar have similar DMG output??

[timid zenith]

Albedo is on 4pc husk so I think he will benifit from cinnabar more

[teal garden]

that's fine, but also because you don't really have a choice if you want 2 geo teams at the same time

you either share cinnabar

or you use hod

[timid zenith]

No I mean who benifits from cinnabar more albedo or chiori

[teal garden]

albedo works better with cinnabar but in terms of total dmg output chiori-cinnabar and albedo-cinnabar is similar, with chiori slightly ahead

[timid zenith]

Total DMG output as in?

[teal garden]

meaning chiori does a little bit more damage than albedo

and since you don't have good 4star weapons for chiori, cinnabar is the best you have

[timid zenith]

You mean wolf fang?

[teal garden]

wolf fang is also only slightly better than cinnabar

if you already get bp, put wolf fang on chiori

otherwise share cinnabar or put someone on hod depending who you want to put in a furina team or in a team

[timid zenith]

Like I was seeing this spreadsheet and wolf fang and hod dps difference wasn't much

[teal garden]

wolf fang isn't f2p, so someone may or may not have it. Assume they get bp put wolf fang on chiori

[timid zenith]

Cinnabar also

[teal garden]

otherwise if they have cinnabar use cinnabar

[timid zenith]

So hod on furina team is a no go

[teal garden]

if they have neither you only have hod or you go further down the list

[teal garden]

you have no uptime on hod passive

and make hod only slightly better than the craftable

[timid zenith]

Which Craftable one?

[teal garden]

finale of the deep

[timid zenith]

In a team of Noelle chiori albedo and gorou I don't think I will have problem with hod passive uptime I think??

Also just a question do you think that I maybe made the wrong move by wishing for chiori and should have gone for itto?

[teal garden]

yes noelle will keep off-fielders healed, but you may have a little trade off with geo resonance up time here since noelle's shield tends to break. Against elemental enemies you'll be mostly ok

[teal garden]

geo teams like anemo dps teams want high primo investment. If you like the characters and/or team dynamic...you won't get to play them unless you pull, so for people who simply like the characters and can afford it, pulling isn't a bad idea.

However if primo budgeting is a consideration, I'd tend to recommend this:

you have itto, you're on your way to c6 gorou or have c6 gorou: pull chiori instead of albedo
if you have navia, chiori is technically still a tiny bet better than albedo and gets better with chiori cons. But navia neither wants albedo nor c0 chiori that much.
if you already have albedo and cost is an issue, don't pull chiori, but chiori is in most cases an upgrade to albedo

how much chiori gets better over albedo depends :
at c0, whether your team has geo constructs. without constructs chiori >= albedo. with constructs chiori > albedo clearly
at c1 and c2 frees up chiori from needing geo constructs, but as a result you won't see as big a jump in geo-construct (itto) teams as you would see in constructless teams (navia)

[timid zenith]

Can you tell me what did I do wrong in this that it's suddenly showing 100% er for all

Also please help me in 3starring chamber 2 of floor 12

[teal garden]

childe doesn't use 24 skills per any sort of rotation

chamber 2 first half doesn't like raiden national but you can brute force it. You'll have an easier time there with sucrose national
second half: freebie, a dps check

[timid zenith]

Remaining is right?

[timid zenith]

Most of the characters are thrown off by overload so brute forcing takes way too much time

I never build a sucrose how do I do it

[teal garden]

the remaining can be right if that is your preferred rotation

international rotation varies a lot based on preference

but since kazuha cd is 6~9sec if you want 2 kazuha skills per rotation you can likely fit 1 more bennett E funnels to xiangling. If you do you probably want to do hold for normal set up and press for battery phase unless you want to fit in 1 more bennett funnel on top of it, or do E guoba aimed shot funneling

[timid zenith]

It's 2 cause kazuha is on sac and I am assuming passive proc per rotation

[teal garden]

sac kazuha doesn't apply here

because the first time you use skill before going into childe, whether sac procs or not, kazuha CD will be done by the time you swap off childe

so essentially it did nothing

sac kazuha is for when you want to use two skills quickly before going into childe, such as for difficult to group enemies

[timid zenith]

Ok

Also why is this chamber 2 so tough

Everything in first part is staggering so that rational takes way too long

My personal best is 2 minutes first part and I just can't do the array in less than 1 minute

Navia team might have done better first part of not for those Armor guys

[timid zenith]

Please help me

[teal garden]

first chamber doesnt' want you to use rational, switch out raiden for a grouper (sucrose or kazuha) or use a freeze, hyperbloom, taser team. Any time you see whopper flowers you want to think maybe not raiden

if you can get under 2 min second half is just a dps check

[timid zenith]

I am using navia second half and I believe I should be able to do it in 1.5 minutes

But those sheild guys are a real hassle to deal with especially when they power up

[teal garden]

don't bring a shield to avoid their power up

you can either bring ganyu or wriothesley if they're built, which take care of them pretty fast, and it doesn't have to be freeze teams for them

xiao team also is good since I remember you have furina now

you can force whopper flowers against a wall by going to the top of the chamber opposite where they spawn right after specters

[timid zenith]

No the geo one creates should via the ground attack and Pyro dmg

[teal garden]

but xiao can push the specters apart

[timid zenith]

I have furina but couldn't get xianyun

[teal garden]

you just dash behind him. He blocks the ground attacks for you when you're in the right spot, where the ground is coming towards you from behind him

[timid zenith]

Really?

[teal garden]

yes

you can also dash to the side out of the rolling ground attacks

as long as you're behind the giant geo shield you'll be able to damage everyone

[timid zenith]

So you have a vedio of how to do it

[teal garden]

go here after you're done with specters and face the wall

[teal garden]

try sevys video I'm headed out

[timid zenith]

https://youtu.be/n2q4HqS32Bw?si=YEDTIYfEjmfdBdi8

This one?

[teal garden]

yes

she makes newbie friendly abyss guides every abyss

[timid zenith]

Alright I will try it

[teal garden]

The geo rolling thing if i remember correctly you have to stand really close to the big geo husk for him to block it with his hitbox. But if you have a healer in team you can tank or dash and be ok

[timid zenith]

How is she able to do it so easily
My sucrose is just way too less built for sucrose national and kazuha just can't replace sucrose here

Please help me

[teal garden]

she is timing her sucrose skill and bursts well and placements well

if you can't do it with national try a freeze team

freeze or melt

but you tend to be able to take a grouper in freeze

record a typical run or resetting it several times if you have to

[timid zenith]

For freeze or which team?

[teal garden]

whichever you think you have a best shot in

but since you have ganyu and ayaka I would say freeze team

do you have kokomi?

[timid zenith]

No

I will most likely use furina

[teal garden]

is barbara built?

[timid zenith]

Yeah I think so

[teal garden]

jean isn't great chamber 2 but if you think you can group the whopper flowers the other 2 waves can be brute forced

wait is charlotte built?

[timid zenith]

No

[teal garden]

or built with enough ER and healing

[timid zenith]

She is still lvl 50 so dosent have enough er

[teal garden]

barbara isn't great here but you can try double hydro freeze team with barbara on ttds and furina on er sands

or drop ttds for fav on barbara

[timid zenith]

Then how about I use raiden national once?

[teal garden]

you can try but I don't think you'll like it

whopper flowers and specters want you to not use raiden national

[timid zenith]

I personally feel that navia team would work nice due to her long range attacks

[teal garden]

yes she will work but you don't want to bring zhongli here

[timid zenith]

But since she needs crystalize those husks are a trouble

[teal garden]

bring someone like chiori or albedo

husks don't really trigger on crystallize

that was a change made after player outcry

[timid zenith]

They don't?

Seriously

[teal garden]

when you shield breaks the husks don't power up

so crystalize, baizhu shield, you can take them to husks floor

[timid zenith]

Ok and second half can be raiden national then right

[teal garden]

yes

you already got chamber 3 right?

[timid zenith]

Yeah all 3 stars

[teal garden]

yeah navia team is fine, if raiden national wants bennett you can take beidou fischl first half

[timid zenith]

Like even in that chamber I can complete it be I am taking about 30 seconds extra

[timid zenith]

I mostly use navia furina jean and albedo

Should I change to beidou and fischl

[teal garden]

you can stay jean furina

neither are ideal but should do fine

with jean, group whoppers against the top wall of the chamber

[timid zenith]

This one?

[teal garden]

yes

[timid zenith]

Ok I will try it and send you a vedio

Should I also include my retries in it?

Or just the successful run?

[teal garden]

send the whole thing

so you don't have to edit

[timid zenith]

Ok

[teal garden]

alternately I think you probably have a good hyperbloom team for 12-2-1

yaoyao, furina, kuki/raiden, fischl/flex

[timid zenith]

I can use furina nahida kuki and yaoyao(just for healing)

My hyperbloom team is kinda good I believe

Btw what about the dendro specters?

[teal garden]

furina

[teal garden]

I might head to bed soon so if you're recording video, record all the teams you want me to look at

and I'll look at them all tomorrow

typically videos show your positioning habits and team rotation habits and they don't have to be perfect to be informative

[timid zenith]

https://youtu.be/MFuL0QGIZ1E?si=c-YXYvOyi0xthRy7

https://youtu.be/GCfmjO79cmw?si=9gMYhLcCx9wGI5_i

I personally think that hyperbloom might have better chances since I believe the husks are getting the buff

[teal garden]

dps in your teams look alright but you have some rotation issues that is dragging your time out:
in the hyperbloom team build er on yaoyao and skip nahida burst if you want to skip any burst. You should always be doing: Furina EQ (don't split stay on field, don't split her EQ into different character swaps) and yaoyao Q, for highest damage. You can delay using yaoyao Q if you want everyone's HP to go down a little bit before healing. There is no need to use normal attacks on this team outside of nahida normal attacks since you're ungrouping enemies with stagger.

Raiden team: you're failing to catch your funneled energy. Bennett QE -> Xiangling QE to catch. You're currently catching energy before using xiangling Q and thereby extending your rotations. Use xingqiu Q before Bennett Xiangling. He has longest E duration (rule of longest durations) to get more vapes But overall raiden team is fine here. You ust need to save more time first half with better rotations and placements

Navia team rotation is fine but don't go into the middle of specters and whopper flowers, this is how you're ungrouping them (also happens in hyperbloom team). Stay on the outside of them. You're not saving time by starting rotations right away due to ungrouping. Group the whopper flowers on a wall. Use ER sands on your furina and jean. Target the shield or geo husks and let other husk come towards you. Remember you can dash through or sideways to dodge the rolling ground effects which cause corrosion

Since you have a habit of wanting to use normal attacks in melee range, use the hyperbloom team instead first half so that you don't think you have to use any normal attacks and can stay a safe distance for grouping and dodging of the ground attacks

for navia team

there's actually no reason to normal on jean and furina unless your'e 1~2 energy short

dps is fine, you lost time in ingrouping. Once you ungroup, you effectively just have a single target team

[timid zenith]

I see

[teal garden]

it's natural to want to run into the middle of enemies and start dpsing right away. However this time you're clearly running into ungrouping issues. A thing you now want to practice is running to the OUTSIDE of enemies and grouping them back into the rest of the group. Or pausing in your rotation to observe enemies in order to not lose time. If you like using normal attacks sometimes, look up stagger grouping as a technique and practice it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DR18lzSUg2I

[timid zenith]

The only reason I use na is because either my skill or burst are on cd or something

[teal garden]

don't use it all the time

use it only when you know how to group enemies with stagger

practice not using it

[timid zenith]

So like should I just stand there?

[teal garden]

yeah stand there and observe is better than ungrouping specters with your normals

until you start understanding how to to group ehenmies with normal/charge/positioning

just stand there