wait that has
#・theorycrafting
alpine sparrow
c1 box on
most people doesnt has c1
here u go
pretty sure this is the best we are gonna get
soft drift
25s rotation actually 
alpine sparrow
5N2C 1N3C
thats what childe mains recommend
and Seres which is a really experienced childe player
unless u are using thundering pulse than more n3c is better
I have 13 orders that has to be shipped out tomorrow morning at 7 so I gtg now
@ me for the results
soft drift
childe stance change > bennett Q > kazuha E Q > bennett E > xiangling Q E > childe rQ melee 5N2C 1N3C(9.78s)>kazuha E > battery xl and xlE> repeat (around 25-27s rotation time)
Updated ER:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s6D81Z4KmLEJYHvPkPCrfXjPTuNWGOlisLGetgXOUuc/edit
alpine sparrow
how do you account for rotation time in dmg comparasions btw ?
soft drift
Childe 120 Xiangling 170 Bennett 160 Kazu 150
soft drift
how do you account for rotation time in dmg comparasions btw ?
Total dmg done/rotation time
alpine sparrow
Thank you
hasty wigeon
Ok
So 4 n2c in ult and 1 without?
And then an n3c
Thats not too bad to calc
I prefer to be generous in my calculations, tends to calc easier
Just lemme finish dailies first
soft drift
hasty wigeon
lets just all do separate and cross check once we done
soft drift
soft drift
quite rushed ngl
soft drift
wats this buffle
alpine sparrow
sometimes childe vapes instead of xl
soft drift
alpine sparrow
its so hard to assume who is gonna vape
alpine sparrow
its kind of rng even
hasty wigeon
which given he does 360k damage in rotation, is a lot less than i expected
soft drift
<@!463998487067885600> what wep is ur
catch and sacrificial sword
hasty wigeon
oh yeah childe vv uptime should be 3 n2C
oh right
alpine sparrow
catch and sacrificial sword
u do include wep passives during team calcs right ?
hasty wigeon
im just gonna include 4vv in the buff list and non 4vv in the unbuffed
soft drift
u do include wep passives during team calcs right ?
yeah the crate is added for the burst dmg only for xl
hasty wigeon
probably excessively generous but i cant be arsed to separate every bit
soft drift
for catch
alpine sparrow
okay ty just making sure cuz
hasty wigeon
wait
hasty wigeon
4vv is extended by hitlag
soft drift
its significant enough
hasty wigeon
its ok
soft drift
it is?
hasty wigeon
it is
hasty wigeon
i was the ticket maker to confirm 4 vv effects
might have to retract that
i cant find the ticket no more
soft drift
u kinda didn't follow a trend
hasty wigeon
it might have had some faulty experimentation or some shit?
i dont do frame shit or icd shit well so i wasnt able to check their work
either way
im not making three rows
soft drift
ig ill quickly checl
alpine sparrow
i cant find the ticket no more
we dont keep tickets
after they are added to libary
hasty wigeon
we dont keep tickets
kqm ticket
hasty wigeon
ah
i think last i checked it was an open ticket?
the review process is pretty slow and so is the transcription so i doubt they finished so fast
soft drift
alpine sparrow
hasty wigeon
anyway yeah lemme get the results
hasty wigeon
this is what i got
alpine sparrow
greyhound prob got someone to verify it and added it his own lol thats how it was so fast prob
soft drift
greyhound prob got someone to verify it and added it his own lol thats how it wa...
Kinda stonks ngl
hasty wigeon
lemme check my overvape assumptions
soft drift
hasty wigeon
nah i just took the 11 hits of xiang ult and halved it, its definitely lower than the actual result
i just slapped a 6 to make it the most conservative possible
soft drift
nah i just took the 11 hits of xiang ult and halved it, its definitely lower tha...
i wouldnt buy it
hasty wigeon
6 is low
eli tells me 6-10 is likely gonna be the final range
but i wanted to be safe
i dont know how many more i can take away before its unreasonable
soft drift
Imagine guessing reaction counts
hasty wigeon
i feel like i need an extra guy to check this one
soft drift
soft drift
i feel like i need an extra guy to check this one
its not 15 per enemy
but 15 counting aoe
hasty wigeon
yeah but ol icds exist
soft drift
i wont be counting it again
hasty wigeon
i can do both ig
soft drift
try 12-3 or overworld maguu ig
hasty wigeon
but ill tell you upfront
soft drift
other floors are unrealiable
soft drift
sacarsm?
hasty wigeon
nah just saying em built ols are powerful
weird
i could have sworn i set it to 6
its at 11 in the sheet sitri sent back
ill set it to 15 and recheck
soft drift
i think we r at the point more testing of reaction counts are needed
hasty wigeon
ya
soft drift
hasty wigeon
lemme just find the number of ols where it falls below
wair
what was the rotation duration asumptions again
i forgot to fix those
soft drift
childe?
hasty wigeon
i set national to 21 and childe to 24
soft drift
25
soft drift
national needs in game testing tbh
funneling too often can mess vapes
could be 22s or more
hasty wigeon
i can set it to 22 and childe rvape to 25 ig
childe ends up 91% of the last guy
of raiden i mean
soft drift
Raiden should be 22-23
hasty wigeon
its at 22 rn, i can see 23
soft drift
we will see from your tests later
hasty wigeon
95% of it
soft drift
soft drift
what tests?
reaction counts
hasty wigeon
sure
hasty wigeon
ayzels already doing it iirc
soft drift
ayzels already doing it iirc
oh ok
i was just about to copy paste once=true
10 times
hasty wigeon
oh ok
playing around with the numbers, 23sec raiden 25sec childe
you need around 12 ols to beat childe
however if your rotation can be cleaner this goes down a lot
i think generally its fine to say they are competitive?
sucrose national still eats dust no matter what
dependong on ol count kaz national ranges from 7% to 10%
wait, national is 23 seconds
soft drift
i think generally its fine to say they are competitive?
that’s fair
hasty wigeon
all nationals eat massive shit
hasty wigeon
@soft drift you wanna add your counts to the overvape ticket in kqm?
hasty wigeon
looking at the ticket 6 ol xiang 3 ol bennett 2 ol raiden seems reasonable
refactoring it in at 23 sec rot raidne loses to 25 sec childe
but its a close enough margin any rotation length changes can and will shift the balance
hasty wigeon
looking at the ticket 6 ol xiang 3 ol bennett 2 ol raiden seems reasonable
@alpine sparrow
thats if rotation time is 25sec childe and 23 sec raiden
but im not sure if overvape hits 23 seconds?
soft drift
but im not sure if overvape hits 23 seconds?
Not sure if Childe can rlly do it in 25s too
Needs more testing
sturdy trout
do you want me to playtest/record the raiden rotation
hasty wigeon
do you want me to playtest/record the raiden rotation
yes
sturdy trout
what is the full rotation
alpine sparrow
<@!649751381355266068>
I ll wait for more thought process on this
hasty wigeon
what is the full rotation
bennett q to xq eqe to xiangling qe to raiden eq 3n3c
funnel xiang around 3 times i think after this is done?
soft drift
funnel xiang around 3 times i think after this is done?
No Raiden E at the start?
hasty wigeon
No Raiden E at the start?
oh wait yeah
soft drift
funnel xiang around 3 times i think after this is done?
Doesn’t seem possible for 22s
sturdy trout
so let me make sure of some specifics:
raiden e at the start and just does q later?
bennett just does q when he first takes the field, no eq or qe?
xq waits around to pick up his second set of particles?
also any issues with testing on a downed ruin guard since that's what i normally default to
hasty wigeon
also any issues with testing on a downed ruin guard since that's what i normally...
probably no issue
hasty wigeon
so let me make sure of some specifics:
raiden e at the start and just does q lat...
yes to all
soft drift
yes to all
Wait
Xq doesn’t need to wait around
Xq should be able to EQE and leave without picking the second batch
soft drift
so let me make sure of some specifics:
raiden e at the start and just does q lat...
Xq shouldn’t need to wait for the second batch but up to ya
sturdy trout
well muscle memory took over at the start and i did some dash cancels plus at least one weaved normal with XQ rather than following the script, then messed up the funneling a bit at the end. Will rerecord if necessary but still gonna upload this one
bennett buff wears off before raiden's 3rd N3, so the buff should apply to 2x N3C, then N2 with this rotation
the 3rd N3C is done at about 17 seconds in, doing more than 1 bennett E after would cause the rotation to go well past 23 seconds
XQ's first E needed to be delayed very slightly longer to get the bennett buff on the first hit
hasty wigeon
hm
i think this means its better to xq eqe before you do the bennett shit
oh
shit
i just realised
in every single fucking raiden calc i did
i forgot to include the burst dmg%
sturdy trout
oops
hasty wigeon
oops
sturdy trout
2 funnels is about a 24-25 second rotation, so i think the full rotation would be:
Raiden E > Ben Q > XQ EQE > XL QE > Raiden stuff > Ben E (funnel) > XL E > Ben E (funnel) > repeat
unless of course you change it by doing something like XQ before Bennett
hasty wigeon
xq before bennett should cut out a lot of bennett ult time used and the funnel should be faster
since bennett should in theory be able to pick up his buff if hes fast
sturdy trout
so:
Raiden E > XQ EQE > Ben Q > XL QE > Raiden stuff > Ben E > etc?
hasty wigeon
likely so
hasty wigeon
actually first Ben Q should be QE imo
could you record when you are free?
sturdy trout
bennett field goes away before bennett takes the field again, but raiden has it for her full uptime. The ending is slow in this recording since i start having to dodge stuff, but the first funnel is done at about 21 seconds in, or ending it with 2 funnels + 2nd guoba keeps it at about a 25 second rotation
hasty wigeon
i think ill end at 1 funnel then
sturdy trout
hm wait
keep in mind you're still gated by XQ's cooldown
so you can't repeat the rotation at 21 seconds
XQ with sac makes it a little over 23 seconds minimum
sturdy trout
i think ill end at 1 funnel then
i'm just gonna ping you to try to make sure you see the above in case you're starting calcs for it already
hasty wigeon
ah
sturdy trout
basically XQ's 21 second cooldown needs to be up at the start of the EQE, but it doesn't actually start until the first hit of the second E
so together it's about 23 seconds
hasty wigeon
basically XQ's 21 second cooldown needs to be up at the start of the EQE, but it...
thats for only the first rotation though
sturdy trout
no, that's every rotation
his cooldown starts at 3.04 in this video, so you won't be able to do your second EQE until 21 seconds after that
hasty wigeon
yeah, so every rotation starts at 21n+3, where n is the rotation number
sturdy trout
so let's say you do it again at t=24
E will go on cooldown at about t=26.2
which means the next time you can do it is at t=47.2
sturdy trout
so intuitively i'd expect it's either better to extend it to a double guoba rotation (like 25s), or remove sac to keep it as close to 21s as possible. but i'm not a math guy
hasty wigeon
i could see sa being removed
soft drift
Fav on xq is definitely better
Lowers rotation time to 21s and lowers Er requirements of xl abit
hasty wigeon
ah
200 er raiden
its fine, it ended up being 2 subs off
so instead of going 1 down, im going 1 up
whats xq er with fav
soft drift
the changes were less than a percentage point in differences
Even with the 21 s rotation?
soft drift
hasty wigeon
wait
you know how you include a line of ynamic variables?
but you hardcode the values anyway?
soft drift
?
hasty wigeon
thus making the dynamic values useless?
it doesnt matter i hope
newest result if fav sword xq
dropping 2 seconds is massive
for context childe was at 99.4% before the drop
soft drift
Got Isu to thank for testing this
I still want Childe tests
25 s might be too little
Also has ayzel used the sim yet?
Srl’s
wet lantern
Ecs ok now I think
I think alum was right. Re application of ec didn’t trigger additional ticks
Could use I guess some verification in coop mode if anyone wants to try
It’s very hard to confirm in single player live
Need childe + 2 electro. Need to apply electro > 0.5s apart but < 1s apart
Wait… I’m dumb I can just do the other way w hydro 🤦♂️
Ok let me think some more. I think this is how we got into the 4 tick mess in the first place…
fiery saffron
Could use I guess some verification in coop mode if anyone wants to try
Do you still need this
wet lantern
Do you still need this
Let me give hydro a try first
wet lantern
hmm on the topic of unreleased chars. have there been any calcs on kokomi at all yet? is there a kokomi main discord? Lol
oh tohma actually looks interest for raiden
the wording on the burst thus far is the same as xingqiu. could be interesting to see how it'll interact with xingqiu + raiden
ah just saw the leaked vids. that confirms it on attack animation then
exotic spire
I did some calcs on kokomi, although they're pretty rudimentary @wet lantern
mostly for artifact and weapon rankings
I'm about to fly so I'll put them here later
hasty wigeon
I'm probably going to make a tohma vs. other sub-DPS unit comparison
We were discussing this in the office
I feel like thoma's peers arent subdpses, theyrre units like zl or diona
soft drift
could i see the er reqs of a c6 xq with baal?
153 no fav no sac
hasty wigeon
hm
thats odd
i heard a few claims of a 100-130 xq with raiden
idk how that happened
wet lantern
no one told me this 😂
hasty wigeon
no one told me this 😂
first time ive seen it too
i personally dont use your sim, but i think the ui is fine for the audience that uses it
wet lantern
i dont think very many uses it lol
hasty wigeon
its better that people who dont know enough about rotations dont use a highly powerful rotation calculator that doesnt correct their mistakes
imo at least
wet lantern
😢
hasty wigeon
its still a very impressive calculator and the only sheet i know that easily factors vertical scaling
so kudos for that at least
wet lantern
unfortunately.. i do need to get more visibility for the sim though for a couple reasons. main one being the project is just far too big for me to handle by myself. if i can get some more interest in the project then hopefully i can get ppl to help out. not even coding help but just validation tests and rotation building. but also assuming the rotations are preset by ppl that knows what they're doing, the sim can be a very powerful tool in answering all the random questions ppl have such as should i use this or that that is currently answered with IDP... because they can just plug it in the sim and see the answer for themselves
fiery saffron
issue is im bad at coding and cmd line stuff and idk how to use the sim
fiery saffron
sure
fiery saffron
srl’s Combat sim tutorial:
https://youtu.be/nGzHLECSFh8
wet lantern
i was just talking to frzyc and he was open to the idea of letting me use GO as an UI to the sim (which would be extremely helpful). GO already have all the character interfaces etc built in. Just need some sort of drag and drop UI to build the action lists.
as for contributors tbh what i need help with the most isn't coding haha. it's validation tests and coming up with rotations
wet lantern
issue is im bad at coding and cmd line stuff and idk how to use the sim
there is actually an UI of sort and if you want i can walk you through it. but maybe not a mass format like last time since i dont think that was too helpful. easier to just do q&a
leaden stag
@hasty wigeon
Raiden Eula: I cannot say definitively Raiden increases my experience with Eula comps. She shapes things up a bit, but in general the way Eula comp runs with the standard core: Eula + Electro + battery 1 + fill/battery 2 doesnt change. Now instead of battery 1 + battery 2/fill taking field time, you have raiden + time for 1 rotation of battery 1 batterying.
This doesnt really change the dynamics of how eula works, i can certainly see the damage increase with Raiden buffing (im running 221 ER), but a change in experience is not something im seeing. Im still running 145 ER on eula currently cause cant find a better offensive piece, but again, I doubt it shifts any eula comps more than dmg increase.
Now that the eula part is done, now we get to the important part, the role of battery 1, battery 2/fill vs raiden. Raiden puts these 2 roles at a dilemna. Diona animations and best generating capabilties is sac sword for double E, but she costs a lot of field time doing that, and I can certainly see what jinx said with raiden extending rotations in this case. Fav is a must for diona if you run this, sac would be total waste as raiden generates enough energy for eula, while sac cost diona field time as i talked about.
Diona is still the best option for battery 1 position, running offensive battery 2 in a duo carry comp like this is super unfun and deceptively squishy. Both Raiden and Eula has really strict field times where you have to play full offense to actually see both of their strengths in this comp, and without a diona you are in for a world of pain as your dodge timer is scarce. I tried Jean Rosaria as a substitute, and Jean reactive heals is not enough, especially with the point about the 2 carries above. In fact, ill say in Raiden Eula comps diona is the only line of defense, one you must have, which i will go over in the battery2/fill position, unless you have a spare zhongli, who is in high demand in a lot of other comps.
Battery 2/fill position is an interesting one. You have virtually 0 field time for this unit, anything longer than 1.5-2s of field time on them (basically swap right when timer cooldown allows) is an extended rotation, aka DPS loss. You run into a lot of problems here, where the units you can choose either has mediocre damage and generalistic synergy, or just 0 synergy at all. Sara took way too much field time, Bennett with Eula comp still has the same issue, Fischl is redundant, Beidou doesnt work. Interestingly enough, units that is suitable for this slot are actually one role units, like Xinyan C4, Lisa or mega inert units like Zhongli, Albedo if you are running Rosaria/Kaeya as a battery as i mention in position battery 1.
Either way, Raiden doesnt definitively change a lot in Eula comps. The best way I can describe Raiden dynamics in this comp is that she basically kicks out the Fill position unit, but doesnt bring in anyone better, you can actually run a 3 man comp and you wouldnt feel any difference than having a 4th unit in Eula Raiden Diona comp. They are that irrelevant, unless you actually gimp ur other comp by slotting proven units like Bennett Zhongli.
hasty wigeon
i generally agree that raiden doesnt change eula's dynamic? i just feel like shes a superior pick to fischl or something
i dont quite get what you mean by fav over sac though
could you not just hold e hold e swap?
exotic spire
raiden lets her more easily slot in bennett/zhongli if your other team doesn't need them. i think for many players its not too hard to make a second team without one of them now
hasty wigeon
i also feel like running 145 skews it somewhat, given that sac is still more energy. in ideal circumstances, it should lead to 1 sub or more lost, but its just borderline in the same way sac vs fav isnt too much of a comparison in normal diona supporting eula comps
the point about field time is a good one too, my calculations imply a 1 second field time for man 4 in a raiden eula comp
leaden stag
Some comps Id suggest for this combo is:
Raiden Eula Rosaria/Kaeya Zhongli: I love this combo, I think that this is one of the better Raiden Eula comps that strike a good balance between offense and defense, with little worries in rotations and comp building. Every unit helps each other/sufficient. Only issue is this is a 3 5* unit comp, very expensive.
Raiden Eula Sara Diona: You cannot escape extended rotation in this comp, but both Raiden and Eula loves ATK, and Bennett is a far more important unit to be run here, so Sara is always a good option.
Raiden Eula Diona Xinyan/Lisa: A more sustainable variation of the oneshot comp, but quite half baked. It deals very good damage for how cheap it is compared to other Eula Raiden comps, but still quite clunky as other Eula oneshots, need more testing for this.
Raiden Eula Diona Albedo: Same as first, just a downgrade. Very comfy, doesnt have to think about anything as units are self sufficient or help each other.
Raiden Eula Bennett Rosaria/Kaeya: Highest damage version, but again, very expensive. Same principles as Sara variation, with the same strengths and weaknesses of 1. Id recommend this only if you dont need Bennett on the other half.
hasty wigeon
i was thinking of a high cost anemo to 4vv raiden, but calcs are needed to see if the dps gain on raiden is worth losing a subdps
i was specifically considering jean as man 4 since she gets an a4 ult refund and thus gets the benefit of both an 80 cost ult and less er required
leaden stag
Jean Rosaria variation runs into the problem where untimely hits completely screws you
hasty wigeon
albedo was considered at one point but it really all depends on how resolve works out
leaden stag
Honestly doesnt sound bad
hasty wigeon
i really dont think we can abandon diona even with raiden as an option, i find diona's burst particle gen just too good
leaden stag
you cannot yeah
you need a shield
in raiden eula
if you dont have a shield you eithe rdeal no damage cause you swap out mid combo
or you are in a world of pain
hasty wigeon
meaning we should focus on finding a good 4th and justifying a 4th slot in the first place
leaden stag
My issue with Raiden Eula is 4th slot never feels good to fill lol
hasty wigeon
i considered albedo, given that 80% of his damage was done in a single second
exotic spire
rosaria zhongli works well, if we're ok with using ZL
hasty wigeon
yeah
i just dislike sustain batteries for hypercarries ig
nothing wrong with them on the sheet
i just find i personally play better with really fast batteries
even if final ppm is lower
leaden stag
if i write her guide, id put this comp like this:
Raiden + Eula + Shielder + Battery if needed to ult off CD on Eula/Whatever you want
hasty wigeon
i guess
leaden stag
You can legit just run a XQ for some shatter + EC and it doesnt change anything
hasty wigeon
o shit i forgot xq
ok we got some interesting results on him
with raiden his er needs drop a lot
so just from raiden alone a sacswordless xq can run 160-180 er
leaden stag
IN Raiden Eula, you have to go full offense XQ
no sac sword
like the best damage sword you have
hasty wigeon
yeah
leaden stag
you dont have time for double Es
fiery saffron
fav sword
leaden stag
My favorite Raiden comp to date is still Raiden National
It just feels right to play it
hasty wigeon
i tried out raiden national
it makes national feel actually playable
no 'risky funneling directly risking your damage' bullshit
leaden stag
Im willing to change my mind on this, and its a bit of a hot take, but I think Raiden main DPS is bad
i think she should only be use as a driver
leaden stag
Running her as a main DPS just feels like playing a shittier Xiao or Razor
fiery saffron
i think she should only be use as a driver
yeah now if only she could actually
drive beidou
leaden stag
hasty wigeon
i kinda wish we had more comp ideas than national and eula double carry
but given how gacha cheap national is ig its good enough for now
fiery saffron
I mean there's no shortage of comp ideas specifically, I just don't know if any of them are justifiable to roll for
or good
leaden stag
I need more EM pieces for my Raiden
fiery saffron
like sure you can throw a bunch of 80 cost bursts like
hasty wigeon
raiden feels like a well designed offcarry in a game with 0 offcarry support
hasty wigeon
just like how eula felt like a hypercarry designed for a dual carry comp
fiery saffron
I think that Raiden will be good for casual players
leaden stag
yeah, you either end up going over rotation time, or under rotation time as her
fiery saffron
Because casual players probably don't design their teams to battery or funnel well
leaden stag
that is her biggest issue imo
not her damage
her rotation doesnt fit anyone
except very specific comps
hasty wigeon
its the tao desync issue all over again
fiery saffron
lol
hasty wigeon
oh well
hasty wigeon
hopefully we get more low field time subdpses or offcarries with good damage
fiery saffron
but like it's just difficult to make her work in teams
hasty wigeon
yeah shes difficult
leaden stag
she needs too many things to line up to see that she has potential
like when everything lines up I can see her being quite good
but its hard to get there really
Like even in comps that she is good in
Its hard for players to just tune down their ER requirements immidiately
so she overkills on energy recharge
and you dont actually see that much damage gain
as she could give
leaden stag
i wouldnt say thats a long term investment, cause you need to actively refarm
hasty wigeon
dont you constantly farm anyway?
exotic spire
half of the units she works well with want eosf which i dont think many people are done with anyways
leaden stag
thats fair yeah
fiery saffron
the thing is though
raiden probably makes it so that you don't need ESF on those units
lol
leaden stag
True 
Raiden to me is like this.
If you are ultra casual, like doesnt give a fuck, doesnt clear abyss casual, shes really fun to play, flashy
if you are decently casual, but still wants some performance, very hard to use her, you need the biggest fkn brain to TC her comps and find the optimal ER threshold and rotation timer
if you are a TCer, you can probably make her work, but its not fun and worth the effort as other more "meta" units
thats all i got for now. Im going to bed, gonna look more into her comps tmr
night
fiery saffron
leaden stag
Also for TC peeps who are reading this. Raiden is not good NOT because of Electro, it's because of her own design. Electro is FINE. Raiden issues entirely lies on her, not some external factors.
hasty wigeon
isnt the usual hottake the reverse? electro holding back units?
leaden stag
Raiden actually holding back electro
hasty wigeon
anyway i think raiden is merely mediocre as a unit with current roster, but with issues that could easily be fixed if the roster has the right characters
fiery saffron
I agree, but I just don't know if MHY is interested in releasing super strong 80 cost burst sub-DPS units anymore
like, when you think "strong sub-DPS with 80 cost"
You think XQ Xiangling beidou
Who are all release characters
We have tohma but he's not damage-oriented
exotic spire
they seem to be trying to make duo carry comps a thing though
hasty wigeon
well, eula analogues who take less field time but need energy can also serve
exotic spire
childe and hutao were the first experiments, but recently we've had eula yoimiya raiden and kokomi all in a row
fiery saffron
yeah idk
Maybe they want people to pull more low field time DPS to make people pull more
Since dual carries inherently require 2 characters
= double the profit for mhy
hasty wigeon
that makes sense to an extent ig
fiery saffron
It's just funny cuz like all the dual carry characters probably work better as not dual carry lmao
hasty wigeon
theyll get there eventually
fiery saffron
Yeah maybe when they release a 4s field time unit lmao
exotic spire
honestly i think they just need a 12s field time unit with 30s cd burst
that way the extended rotations fit well
hasty wigeon
i shudder to think of the burst cost on that
exotic spire
lol
hasty wigeon
how did you guys find sara?
i havent considered her comps too much
but she seems like a one trick pony like lisa and xinyan
fiery saffron
Hmm
Mostly good with characters who snap
I don’t know if the utility she provides is worth giving up a team slot
Maybe for Beidou teams specifically yeah but for other characters idk
hasty wigeon
Some comps Id suggest for this combo is:
Raiden Eula Rosaria/Kaeya Zhongli: I ...
You want me to calc these and figure out how good they are?
quasi steeple
honestly i think they just need a 12s field time unit with 30s cd burst
If the trend were to continue a 30 CD burst unit would have a 100 burst cost
going from 40/12 to 60/15 is a 25% increase in burst CD (1/4)
going from 60/15 to 80/20 is a 33% increase in burst CD (1/3)
If that trend were to continue, a jump from 80/20 to 100/30 would be a 50% increase (1/2)
This would fit into the ratio of cost to CD, since the 12 CD is 30% of the 40 cost, the 15 CD is 25% of the 60 cost, 20 CD is also 25% of the 80 cost and 30 CD would come back around to a 30% of the 100 cost.
but honestly, raiden with her 90/18 is an outlier to that trend's validity
hasty wigeon
I dont think theyll go beyond 20 seconds cd, from a gameplay standpoint 30 seconds is downright punishing if you whiff it.
wet lantern
Interesting. Sitri’s thought lines up with what I noted pre release as well. It’s so hard to actually see benefits from her energy refund. Also I don’t think she’s a main DPS at all as well. Her damage proportion is way too low vs her field time. I think it’ll be a long time before we can find the right fit for her.
As for driving beidou I did a quick experiment for zantos (so not super accurate) where I change beidou to proc off her q auto
Initial thoughts are that she’s actually not that good of a beidou driver. Team DPS was roughly the same as her in national team. Of course rotation needs more optimization etc
hasty wigeon
Raiden definitely feels like a long game kinda thing
hasty wigeon
Initial thoughts are that she’s actually not that good of a beidou driver. Team ...
National vs what team?
wet lantern
Beidou raiden xq bennett
Going to try swapping xq for xl later
But ya initial thought is that it’s not actually game breaking or anything
But ya she’s going to be a tough one to optimize
There were a bunch of interesting stuff I noticed in sim re ER
hasty wigeon
Out of curiosity, how does raiden overvape pan out in your sim?
wet lantern
Esp since I’m calculating over 90s and a lot of times I’m simulating at less er than threshold to q constantly
hasty wigeon
Ive calced it myself, i just want to see how your sim differs
wet lantern
Pan out in one what sense? I have the team DPS calc but I don’t have comparisons
quasi steeple
try a variation with kazuha instead of XQ too, got a hunch that overloading off his Q with his high personal and his buffs + VV shred would be quite advantageous for beidou's and raiden's damage
hasty wigeon
Cant you compare total team dps to other teams?
wet lantern
Kazuha I just added but I need someone to help verify accuracy since I don’t own him 😦
wet lantern
Cant you compare total team dps to other teams?
I haven’t done that yet is what I mean
hasty wigeon
Ah
wet lantern
I wanted the comparison to be accurate specifically for raiden cause originally I wanted to see if zantos can put in guide
quasi steeple
I do own him, what interaction did you want to have checked out
hasty wigeon
Its weird cause overvape turns out above national in a lot of calcs i do
wet lantern
So I’m going through the trouble of matching sim output to in game vids exactly frame by frame before I calc team DPS for that team
hasty wigeon
So its difficult to see how a theoretical functional beidou falls below xiangling here
wet lantern
So far I only done that for 50% of national team game play
wet lantern
Its weird cause overvape turns out above national in a lot of calcs i do
I did run the calc eli did through the sim and we came out w very diff numbers
So I’m not sure if there is something going on specifically w that methodology or if it’s something else
Trouble w excel is that it’s way too difficult to verify…. Would take me hours and hours to figure out why
wet lantern
Which one specifically? The one I did marching eli’s rotation?
wet lantern
Ok let me send later today when I’m back
leaden stag
You want me to calc these and figure out how good they are?
yeah, that would be great insight. I really want to see the distinction between Rosaria Zhongli vs Sara Diona vs Diona Albedo specifically
one more thing about Raiden Eula. In this comp I find it to actually better to swap out of Raiden after 5s (using her full battery ability)
than to stay on her longer than that
It allows you to refresh on your shields, which makes transitioning into Eula or the next Raiden rotation to be safer, cause shield breaking mid rotation is a real problem with this comp
@hasty wigeon on the calcs for raiden eula, also do a default calc for Eula Diona Zhongli Albedo and Euld Diona Rosaria Fischl
However, the decision to swap on Raiden is far more dynamic than what I can describe, or what people talk about in rotations really
cause energy gain fluctuates in a round
and also depends on your condition and ur rotation gets delayed somehow, staying on Raiden isnt that terrible, also depends on enemies
I need a calc of Raiden vs Eula damage composition to get to the final conclusion on when to stay on her tho
one thing I have to point out tho, Raiden Eula will keep being annoying to play in the near future
cause ngl, both of these units suck absolute shit against high mobility
and this abyss is probably top 2 or top 1 on the enemy mobility chart
I think this is by far the biggest issue with raiden eula experiences currently
which makes me find this comp to not be good
Eula isnt good in this abyss in the first place
so trying to force another unit into the comp doesnt make her any better really
paper math of Raiden Eula will look really good
but its really hard for that to translate into real game situations sadly
soft drift
@hasty wigeon is there a copy of the newest sheet somewhere and have ya updated Sitri about the Raiden comp rotation change?
quasi steeple
or floors like the hypostases the raiden eula comp works wonders, since theyre stationary during their DPS phases, allowing for the full potential of the comp to shine, but as you said, current abyss with the mobility really doesn't do them any favours, worse yet:
2.1 12-1-1 is an AoE grouping floor, which eula nor raiden like due to lack of grouping tools in that comp
12-1-2 has spectres which raiden can somewhat deal with but eula is basically useless against due to the potential of wiffing NAs entirely by flying too high and being out of reach
12-2-2 is mirror maiden + cryo cicin mage, which eula arguably has a hard time to deal with due to, again, lack of grouping tools
Honestly might have to wait for 2.2's abyss to see the potential of that comp in abyss, since the lineup for 12 first half doesnt seem too bad for the raiden eula comp
depending on if the modifiers arent crippling the team like current abyss does.
summer brook
cause ngl, both of these units suck absolute shit against high mobility
I've def seen this. Something that further hinders their ability to be mobile is the fact that you have to constantly auto to maximize damage with these comps, and the rotations are so long. The Rosaria/Diona difference is huge for feel, but you feel the diona loss in terms of loss of a support jack of all trades. Her e animations make the rotations even longer. Rosaria really helps this comp feel and move better.
also the idea of sara in a eula raiden comp just feels grimey.
summer brook
Does anyone play on PS here?
summer brook
I was just wondering if anyone was actively building/playing aloy. I have an AR 37 acc on ps4 so ill probably check her out.
alpine sparrow
I was just wondering if anyone was actively building/playing aloy. I have an AR ...
u dont need to be on ps4
to play aloy
u can get the character and play it on pc
summer brook
Oh wow. I did not know that lol
leaden stag
Oh wow. I did not know that lol
yeah, you can just log on with ur PC account on PS4
and shes in mailbox
hasty wigeon
yeah, that would be great insight. I really want to see the distinction between ...
Sara diona is weird, how would that work?
hasty wigeon
<@!557202637687095307> is there a copy of the newest sheet somewhere and have ya...
Illl send later, what rotation change?
alpine sparrow
@leaden stag do u mind explaining to me how homa atk buff works ? it says ATK bonus based on 0.8% of wielders max HP
0.8 of 20k (max hp) is 16k LOL it provides 16k atk bonus ?
leaden stag
Sara diona is weird, how would that work?
it's gonna be an extended rotation, cant really escape that. Raiden E > Diona Q > Sara E > Eula Q Hold E > pick up Sara E with dashing > N4DN3 > Raiden Q E> Diona Hold E > Eula
leaden stag
<@!418511377834049536> do u mind explaining to me how homa atk buff works ? it s...
its 0.8%, or 16k * 0.008
not times 0.8
alpine sparrow
all good
ye ok I realized the problem LOL I was mindlessly copying from Honey hunter, forget that I had to convert
I was so fkn confused LOL
summer brook
is there a reaction that staggers like xq swords currently out? trying to think on something to simulate potential Thoma reactions
hasty wigeon
is there a reaction that staggers like xq swords currently out? trying to think ...
Wdym
summer brook
the library submission shows the stagger of the pyro crash from thomas shield. It seems close to XQ with a stagger time from when you auto. So I want to test on a hu tao n1C , if a similar reaction that staggers exists like Thoma's crashing shield, how often and which damage will trigger the reaction. @hasty wigeon
leaden stag
thanks
alpine sparrow
oh I forgot to say
I am not so sure on
Shield Calculation
Homa
Elemental Reactions
if you guys check those, it be awesome
hasty wigeon
the library submission shows the stagger of the pyro crash from thomas shield. I...
The term is buffers
Like buffered inputs
Also xq is kinda unique
Fischl c6 is instant and beidou works differently
alpine sparrow
Fixed some things on the sheet
summer brook
Also xq is kinda unique
Yeah ill just hold off until we see reactions until I have a definite answer in faq.
hasty wigeon
it's gonna be an extended rotation, cant really escape that. Raiden E > Diona Q...
I think people have found a way to apply sara c4 to apply to eula ult 50/50 of the time? Idk what happened to that
But i feel like a smoother roation would go baal e to eula e sara eq alt swap eula combo sara e baal q rotation cut prematurely baal e diona he q he swap to eula e and continue
That would be 4 seconds in front, followed by eulas 10 seconds, to saras 1 second, to baals 7.5 seconds, to dionas 3 seconds, but cutting baal e from the next rotation so 25 second rotation total
Thats extended isnt it
Fuck
Raidens ult frames being low would make rotations a lot easier to manage
Hopefully it still comes out fully baked
exotic spire
where can i get srl's sim 
wet lantern
alpine sparrow
https://github.com/genshinsim/gsim
exotic spire
thanks
exotic spire
@hasty wigeon looking at your international childe sheet, how does his riptides work to get 14 procs?
quasi steeple
I'd assume this is in an AoE scenario?
Assuming 6 seconds of field time that would be a 3.5 AoE mod that would result in 14 procs
hasty wigeon
<@!557202637687095307> looking at your international childe sheet, how does his ...
Thats a 2 enemy scenario given i halve bennett and xqs damage
wet lantern
can anyone help with energy assumptions? i.e. how many particles from enemies over 90s combat is reasonable
soft drift
can anyone help with energy assumptions? i.e. how many particles from enemies ov...
3-7?
Orbs
Roughly 1.5 orbs to 3 orbs per enemy according to wiki
wet lantern
so 21 particles/
exotic spire
@fiery saffron i have a few questions regarding yoimiya
fiery saffron
sure, ask away
exotic spire
so i was reading through the yoimiya guide and noticed that you were Qing after your E duration here
Bennett E > Bennett Q > Fischl E > Beidou E > Beidou Q > Yoimiya E > Autos > Yoimiya Q > Beidou E
is that better than just using it on beidou procs?
fiery saffron
Hmm
exotic spire
im trying to draw up a rotation for raiden>fischl in that comp is why
fiery saffron
I think that autoing with Yoimiya after it ends means you lose access to 20% buff
because you only maintain A1 stacks for like 3s after your E duration ends
You can still get 10% buff though
idk if losing access to 20% ATK and getting 10% ATK is worth over potentially one more proc
I think that generally I'd prefer to Yoimiya Q anyways even if it's a proc loss because it screws up rotations otherwise
exotic spire
oh i see
fiery saffron
Because if you Q later, you'd have to cast Yoimiya Q a bit later
which means that everything else has to be shifted later
exotic spire
ok yeah
if i'm slotting in raiden then qing after the e should be even better
i was trying out this rotation Raiden E, Bennett EQ, Beidou EQ, Yoimiya QE -> 3xN5, Raiden Q -> something > E
and i was gonna see how it looked with raiden going for 1-2-3-4-5 ER procs
fiery saffron
hmm yeah
yoi/raiden would probably have even more problems with rotation extension
which means you definitely want to make the rotation as tight as possible
exotic spire
@fiery saffron how does yoimiya's A1 work? does her N1 charge it twice, and do they have it calcaulated in those arrows' damage?
fiery saffron
N1 does charge twice, it isn't calculated in the arrow damage iirc but I can test
would have to test tomorrow though
exotic spire
lol
soft drift
exotic spire
huh. my calcs are saying i should just stack infinite EM with this many overloads 
hasty wigeon
huh. my calcs are saying i should just stack infinite EM with this many overload...
how many ols is that?
hasty wigeon
ah
that makes sense
even ol kaz gets like
9
11 ols would definitely cap out em
exotic spire
ok i have 0 confidence in the accuracy of my sheet but
c4 4 stars, c0 5 stars, 4* bis r5, 25 perfect subs minus er with 0.5/1 aoe mod
hasty wigeon
i cannot sheet for the next two days, i just gutted my sheet to improve it
i cannot cross check
exotic spire
ill do some checking tomorrow
hm i cant upload for some reason
beidou c6 makes a big difference too
with c6
anyways was mostly trying the idea sitri had of minimizing raiden field time. the ER reqs looked doable with even only 1 ER tick from raiden and the rotation time is quite fast this way too.
attached are ER reqs
hasty wigeon
aight
ive done my sheet, and im moderately sure ive achieved a very significant degreee of vertical calculation
i kinda wanna crash now
wet lantern
new version
would you like some/lots formatting recommendations
hasty wigeon
would you like some/lots formatting recommendations
yes
also old sheet bad
found some bugs and made formula easier
new sheet good
until it bad
wet lantern
you may not like my recommendations haha. im pretty ocd when it comes to spreadsheet formatting
wet lantern
zantos' rotation calc would be a good start but there would be a lot of change i would want to make to this
basically each column in the calc tab should be set up such that each column is a standalone calculation that can be duplicated as many times as you need
(so like where he has combat setting i'd not put that there since that prevents from just copying and pasting the column)
hasty wigeon
Ah, so more transparency?
With like the buffs and shit
Thats a complaint i get a lot for not labelling buffs
wet lantern
something like this
column C/D can easily be copied and pasted it as many times as you need
it'll be a bit long and harder to read but a lot easier to verify
copy and paste c/d over and over to form a team dps rotation
wet lantern
Ah, so more transparency?
not so much transparency but also how you structure it so that's it's verifiable
nested formulas are the worst actually
because you have to trace the dependencies to see wtf is going on. and if dependencies also link to other cells it takes forever just to verify the number in ONE cell
at which point most ppl will just give up
wet lantern
rotating which table?
wet lantern
well.. it'd require substantial rewriting to get it like this 😂
hasty wigeon
True
wet lantern
but if you do this cleanly and correctly it'll be easy to calculate long rotations
cause all you're doing is replicating the same columns over and over
hasty wigeon
I feel like i can emulate 90% of this already though
All i have to do is display the intermediates
wet lantern
sure
but the point w model is not that it gets the numbers
it's that others that didnt build the model can actually quickly check it for accuracy
wet lantern
imo the overall readability of the model is far more important the final result
hasty wigeon
Display the used atk, dmg% and crit mod
wet lantern
and also.. the color coding actually makes it worse btw
hasty wigeon
The small input table or the larger one
If its the rainbow, thats nonnegotiable
The smaller table can be easily changed
The rainboe gives the sheet personality
wet lantern
like for example, here's an income statement forecast for tesla. note the LACK of color? and just the couple of blue text?
users can very quickly see which cells are calculations and which cells are user inputs
fiery saffron
@alpine sparrow comments for tohma sheet:
1] imo should be separated into multiple sheets instead of maintaining all information on a single sheet, since users need to scroll a lot to see all the info necessary
2] It's probably best to condense a lot of the inputs necessary. For example, you have like 150 cells for artifacts, whereas it can be done in like 30.
I'm terrible at reading other peoples' sheets; mostly for the reasons that srl stated above (it's hard to trace dependencies, since they are dependent on other inputs, which takes forever to verify the formula in one cell). However, I think that generally the sheet is fine
example of how I do artifacts on my sheet:
the artifact stats, along with the given number amount of flat HP/electro dmg%/cr% at each artifact level and rarity are stored on a different sheet
alpine sparrow
<@!649751381355266068> comments for tohma sheet:
1] imo should be separated int...
Noted down, thank you !!
I was kind of afraid of making couple sheets since not many people know how to use google sheets and they might be lost but
its common sense tbh lol
hasty wigeon
like for example, here's an income statement forecast for tesla. note the LACK o...
Ill change the small table then
hasty wigeon
@wet lantern this better for cross checking?
i transposed the table and shit
should work better now
wet lantern
ye much better. for the additional i would use a sumif or lookup as oppose to listing it all out like that. this way u can label
but to do so every calculation would be 2 column instead of one
it'll make it more readable this way b/c let's say u have 2 things that adds to attack, it doesnt have to all go in the same cell
hasty wigeon
ye much better. for the additional i would use a sumif or lookup as oppose to li...
im kinda tech illiterate
wdym
wet lantern
like say u have bennett flat atk and sara flat atk (she's flat atk right??) for example
hasty wigeon
yeah sara is flat
wet lantern
take a look at row 9 in the sample i gave ya
hasty wigeon
like for example, here's an income statement forecast for tesla. note the LACK o...
this one?
oh zants on
wet lantern
^
hasty wigeon
oh i get it labelled buffs
wet lantern
not quite. notice how column C i have "ATK" as an user input?
hasty wigeon
ah
wet lantern
this way in the final stat section you can just do sumif col C == atk
hasty wigeon
i see
wet lantern
so it's easy to on the fly add in buffs for each column that way
and label it as well at the same time
the trade off is your per attack calc is now 2 columns
but i think it's worth the trade off. it's very easy to see this way for example bennett buff (one row) and sara buff (one row)
as opposed to u got 2 typed numbers in a formula
what's damaging type?
hasty wigeon
ah, i have simplified classifications to figure out whether its the elemental damage they were meant to be doing by kit reading (the element of their vision, and primary), an infusion that scales off dmg%(for example kaz infusions labelled as secondary) or phy damage
i could have made 8 different types but like
i think 3 types streamlines the code much better
the reaction type and reverse typing is a compromise cause i forgot how to do excel string manipulation
leaden stag
ER requirements for comp calcs:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/792147187076694057/884733927833604106/unknown.png
hasty wigeon
ok, so to recap, Raiden Eula Rosaria Zhongli:
- Raiden E > Zhongli E Q > Rosaria E Q > {Eula E Q Hold e N4D N4 > Raiden Q > E > Rosaria E > Eula swap for funneling > Zhongli E Q > Rosaria EQ > }loop for 25 seconds,
Raiden Eula Sara Diona:
- {Raiden E > Diona Hold E > Sara Q > Eula Q Hold E N4 D N4 (ur detonation cannot be buffed, sara buff ends after 2nd N2)> Sara E > Raiden Q > }loop for 22.3 sec,
Eula Beidou Fischl Diona:
+Diona Hold E > Fischl E > {Beidou E Q > Eula E > N1 Q N1 E N4D N2 Hold E > Fischl Q > Diona Hold E > Eula funnel + N4 }loop for 20 sec,
Eula Rosaria Fischl Diona:
Rosaria E Q > Diona Hold E > Fischl E > Eula E Q Hold E N4D N4 > {Rosaria E > Diona Hold E > Eula funnel + N4 > Fischl Q > Rosaria EQ > Eula rotation again}loop for 20 sec,
hasty wigeon
ER requirements for comp calcs:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/79214718...
eula looks sick in half of these
are you sure 175% er is right
leaden stag
In Beidou version yeah, you need ER that high
leaden stag
hasty wigeon
anyhing else or i just start?
hasty wigeon
wait, the eula with ros and raiden doesnt look right
152%?
isnt raiden still a decent ish battery for eula?
welp its up to you ig
leaden stag
152%?
She still needs a battery. You can do 2 Rosaria E to lower it, but add 3s more on top cause of funneling
hasty wigeon
ill test that after im done
hasty wigeon
whoa, i think ill use that?
leaden stag
142 if its 1 actually
i misinput the fav lance
yeah
use that i think
just add 3s on top
cause of funneling between those 2
hasty wigeon
so use the double funnel or single funnel?
ill use single first i think, holding up the comp for 3 seconds sounds too punishing
leaden stag
ill use single first i think, holding up the comp for 3 seconds sounds too punis...
ok
hasty wigeon
wait wasnt it 142?
leaden stag
Triple cryo ER req
hasty wigeon
oh you changed the comp
leaden stag
double diona cuts eula ER by like 30%
across all comps, just straight out
its cracked
But you need R3 sac for it to be consistent tho
Fav cuts 15%, sac cuts 30%
so if you swap just cut 15% ER
on top
hasty wigeon
whats raidens extended and minimum combo
exotic spire
N4CD > N4C is 310 frames
exotic spire
just gonna throw this in here https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhPi42RCa56jhIdYGCls1-rZg52mxA?e=0lqQy8
fiery saffron
just gonna throw this in here https://1drv.ms/x/s!AhPi42RCa56jhIdYGCls1-rZg52mxA...
did you manage to figure out a rotation for raiden/yoimiya btw
exotic spire
yeah, the math shows that EM stacking is best for that build so it's better to just get the team buff by ulting later
I have a sheet but its a bit messy, numbers are similar to the kokomi comp. around 47k dps in the perfect scenario (2 enemies, 0.5 mod on single target stuff)
hasty wigeon
@leaden stag could you throw in a second funnel for team 2 to eula?
1 funnel feels wasteful, especially given diona should be able to pull it off anyway
hasty wigeon
team calcs are exhausting
this is what i got so far
this is all dps cause rotation time fuckery
everything is so looooooowwwwwww
leaden stag
I'll look over it. Thanks pick
leaden stag
@hasty wigeon fixing some calcs error, at least eula is being undertuned
you wanna get in a vc so i can stream this and show whats happening?
hasty wigeon
Gimme a sec i talked to kqm and fixed some shit
Used the wrong rot for the first raiden
hasty wigeon
fixed, some other rotation time bugs also fixed
leaden stag
wanna get into theorytesting and work through this?
hasty wigeon
Aight but i cant talk rn
leaden stag
all good
hasty wigeon
So ill type anyway
wait how much is her shred again
i thought it was -15%?
@leaden stag i thought it was a diff of 10% shred?
how did it go up so much?
yeah i get my shred mistaks
but how did she gain 100k in rot from just that
wait yeah ig that makes sense
24 cv is a lot
yeah ig thats reasonable
can you send over the edited sheet ill change all the sheets with eula on them
thats a raiden abridged comp
too little field time to do more
i skipped 3 c and 1n1c
apparently that makes everything much shorter
yeah ill fix em
leaden stag
hasty wigeon
yup its summed up
@leaden stag its catch
Ive considered it a bit but like
Theres cancel pain
Im not really a frame guy too, fucked up my qiqi cancel ticket
Just cut it at a4 then, simpler for everyone
This one has time
Zl is just too much time
@leaden stag i took the liberty of eqing
Extendedfield time a bit
Ill look into that, thats interesting
it was a bit lazy but i dont have a base attack cell
@leaden stag the damage cells all go off the blue cells in the middle
so you can just edit the blue ones there and it works
that makes sense ig
yeah in hindsight not the best idea
still working on a better way, probably a base atk cell?
basically extra shit
@leaden stag you forgot solver
i forgot to make ros c6
i want to standardise 4* c6 5* c0
but i forgot ros
thats true, i used to stagger the c6s based on update
but i dont know exactly where to draw 'c0', 'c2', 'c4' and 'c6'
so i just set everything for their final result
it shreds 20% phy
i set talents right
@leaden stag out of sara means no sarabuffs
its the cel left of it
zhongli eq
thats like 4 seconds
i feel like diona would be better
like 3/8 the field time and double the resolve
its definitely a total rotation damag loss
but you cut 2.5 seconds
check solver again?
sometimes i do that and the problems go away
@leaden stag c6
20 is 8*2.5
only for bei
cause her aoe is dependent on enemy count
my aoei s per enemy so like
thats 2.5 per enemy
eh, i didnt want to use blackcliff
sorry if im a bit sluggish kqm just opened a standardisation ticket
calc standardisatio
leaden stag
@hasty wigeon fixed the beidou driver rotation post ult a bit so instead of funnel then N4 you N4 before swapping to diona, rotation time stays the same, but get 3 more discharge
hasty wigeon
you can get that many more?
thats like, 11 discharges
thats 1 less than the max, that dont sound right
leaden stag
N1 Beidou (1) -> N1 x 2 Eula (3) -> N4 D N2 gives you 4 more, 10 actually
not 11
miscounted
leaden stag
Beidou Eula usually one rotations floor
So people on paper when we draft a sustainable rotation, its around 8 discharge
but if you yolo one rotation, you can get to 11-12
this is more of a middle of both
Eula autos is quite fast for a claymore
she can drive decently
here
its still the worst comp of the bunch tho
hasty wigeon
wow, i can finally shut people who say beidou version better up
leaden stag
look at the eula damage diff
because of the er req
and the extra shred from rosaria and stuff
hasty wigeon
wair, these are legitimately 5% diff
and thats cause sara c6 is pushing the balance
is this rosarias wor
its probably rosaria i think
hasty wigeon
wait, how did the diona raiden team have more er on eula than the diona ros team
